Wittgenstein in the classroom

[Julian]

When I first read Ludwig Wittgenstein’s Philosophical Investigations, I
was a student struggling to make sense of it. Now as I read it on the
70th anniversary of its posthumous publication, I am a teacher
struggling to make sense of it. In my job, I teach adults who speak
English – or at least have a good grasp of it as a spoken language – how
to read and write. And not how to read and write ‘professionally’, but
rather how to connect sounds to shapes on a page and vice versa, how to
spell the language’s most common words, and how to write a complete
sentence.

There is a member of my class who, although he can say and use the words
we study, and has a good grasp of consonants, will not include vowels
when he spells. I will ask him to spell the word ‘went’, for example,
and he will spell out ‘wnt’. If I correct him once, this currently makes
no difference – the next time, he will spell without vowels just the
same. As you may imagine, I can find this very frustrating.

Wittgenstein writes of a similar case...


https://aeon.co/essays/learning-for-wittgenstein-is-a-whole-life-undertaking?

[Jeffrey Rubard]

"This Usenet newsgroup is dedicated to the discussion of the Buddhist philosophy." - Everybody Sober

[Julian]

Which newsgroup are the sad fucks talking about?

[Noah Sombrero]

On Sat, 12 Aug 2023 16:47:12 +0100, Julian <julia...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On 12/08/2023 16:41, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:

His message headers show only short fat guy.
--
Noah Sombrero

[Julian]

His description of "This Usenet newsgroup" does not match ABSFG
in practice nor in theory.

[Noah Sombrero]

On Sat, 12 Aug 2023 21:40:22 +0100, Julian <julia...@gmail.com>

Also true.
--
Noah Sombrero

[Jeffrey Rubard]

Guys, no, you could comfortably think "alt.buddha.short.fat.guy" was about Buddhism. Intelligently, even.

[Noah Sombrero]

On Sun, 13 Aug 2023 08:24:42 -0700 (PDT), Jeffrey Rubard
<theleasth...@gmail.com> wrote:

At one time there were
alt.zen
alt.philosophy.zen
talk.religion.buddhism
and others

Of those short fat guy is only left to tell the tale. But
from the beginning, those others were as you suggest, but
short fat guy was not.
--
Noah Sombrero

[Julian]

You could try solving your problem by setting an example,
lead from the front, by discussing Buddhist philosophy.

[Jeffrey Rubard]

"You don't really do that, gringo. Get it? Buddhists teach Buddhism through their daily practice. So your spewing poisonous gas could take a break on this topic, perhaps others."

[Julian]

LOL, I've no idea where you got the idea that you might
appoint yourself moderator of ABSFG but many have tried
all have failed. Good luck with that.

I don't care what Buddhists do as long as they don't invade
my personal space and even then I'm confident I could despatch
them with little ado.

If you want me to do what you want me to do I might
be for hire. Discuss my rates, terms and conditions,
with my people.

[Jeffrey Rubard]

Wider World: "It's a thing you know if you know anything about Buddhism, which many Western intellectuals -- even those who have spoken about the religion, as with this guy -- don't know."

> I don't care what Buddhists do as long as they don't invade
> my personal space and even then I'm confident I could despatch
> them with little ado.
>

"Did someone tell you it was cool to misspell the word as 'despatch'? Some dumb cracker fiend, presumably."

> If you want me to do what you want me to do I might
> be for hire. Discuss my rates, terms and conditions,
> with my people.

"I would like you to stop violating women and any male sexual partners you might have."
"No can do."
"I guess we're not 'speaking the same language', then."

[Jeffrey Rubard]

It really is stupid to do the 'kyoot' mispelling, or to commit serious violence against sexual partners. Can't help, there.

[Creon]

On Mon, 14 Aug 2023 13:29:06 -0700 (PDT), Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> "I guess we're not 'speaking the same language', then."

https://stumbles.org.uk/John/rec/buddha.html

--
-c

[Julian]

It appears you can see through a key hole with both eyes.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/despatch

[Jeffrey Rubard]

"It's a low-class spelling. They 'led you on to' it."

[Jeffrey Rubard]

Refute world history, once again.
Wider World: "Oh, man. We get it."

[Julian]

Thank you.

[Jeffrey Rubard]

You're welcome. I'm glad I could be "discrete" about it, too.

[Jeffrey Rubard]

"Yeah, it's really some pretty dumb stuff to 'idly' misspell words as status-signaling."

[Jeffrey Rubard]

"They use 'contrived' misspellings in other countries, often."
"They have simple rules for it, which are easy to learn, and which you lot have never cared to learn.
*That is *willkuerliches Definition*, only."

[Jeffrey Rubard]

"Don't Americans do that, too?"
Irredentist fans of the Confederate States of America would do that, sometimes.
(Not a good look.)

[Jeffrey Rubard]

"You're making it up."
"No, it's a fairly empirically validated hypothesis. The misspelling system is different than other English ones."

[Jeffrey Rubard]

"Really? Those guys are 'cruds'?"
"Seems so, it really does."

[Jeffrey Rubard]

"What's a 'crud'?"
"A racist fascist sympathizer from the Southern US, traditionally."

[Jeffrey Rubard]

"Do they like Wittgenstein?"
"Less and less over time, I think."

[Jeffrey Rubard]

"Why's that?"
"He turns out to be determinedly anti-fascist, and this does not suit them."

[Stephane Guenette]

On Saturday, 12 August 2023 at 07:33:51 UTC-7, Julian wrote:

> When I first read Ludwig Wittgenstein’s Philosophical Investigations, I
> was a student struggling to make sense of it. Now as I read it on the
> 70th anniversary of its posthumous publication, I am a teacher
> struggling to make sense of it. In my job, I teach adults who speak
> English – or at least have a good grasp of it as a spoken language – how
> to read and write. And not how to read and write ‘professionally’, but
> rather how to connect sounds to shapes on a page and vice versa, how to
> spell the language’s most common words, and how to write a complete
> sentence.

> There is a member of my class who, although he can say and use the words
> we study, and has a good grasp of consonants, will not include vowels
> when he spells. I will ask him to spell the word ‘went’, for example,
> and he will spell out ‘wnt’. If I correct him once, this currently makes
> no difference – the next time, he will spell without vowels just the
> same."

'God Speak' is the same. God tried to make it impossible to be worshipped by having
a name that couldn't be pronounced but we managed to figure out a way to do it, just
the same.

[Jeffrey Rubard]

They used to call them "false confessors", but I think modern Christians have different
terms for people you shouldn't believe on this topic...

[Jeffrey Rubard]

Wider World: It's a depressingly rote problem these people have. 'Nothing new to see here' stuff...

[Jeffrey Rubard]

...this stuff is 'read out' from a 'Psychopath Joke Book', etc.

[Jeffrey Rubard]

(Those sorts of misspellings are actually oddly characteristic of a sort of 'deranged menace'. You wouldn't think so, but...)

[Jeffrey Rubard]

"What kind of deranged menace?"
Low-key high-voltage sex criminals? (Any 'opposing viewpoints' here?)

[Jeffrey Rubard]

"Really? Do you really mean that?"
It does seem to be a strong 'empirical correlation', really.

[Jeffrey Rubard]

"You really mean that?"
Actually, yes: later on it turns out there are known "charges" against them, and the like.

[Stephane Guenette]

On Friday, 15 September 2023 at 11:02:57 UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
...

> > > Low-key high-voltage sex criminals? (Any 'opposing viewpoints' here?)

> > "Really? Do you really mean that?"

> > It does seem to be a strong 'empirical correlation', really.

> "You really mean that?"

> Actually, yes: later on it turns out there are known "charges" against them, and the like.

Some of the best conversations happen between I and I.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyzRYN5tpqE

[Jeffrey Rubard]

"White people aren't really exactly welcome to use Jamaican patois, okay?"

[Jeffrey Rubard]

It's a real thing, especially if you can't keep your "irie" and your "batty" straight...

[Jeffrey Rubard]

"I heard 'batty' means gay."
It does. "Irie" does, too.
"Wow, weird world."
It is, yeah.
"No, I mean you're crazy."
No, it's in part how both words work, sorry your 'cheat sheet' didn't have that.

[Jeffrey Rubard]

"That can't possibly be true."
Jamaican: "No, it is, in the sense in which it would be true. 'Batty' and 'irie' men are both 'off' in a sense that suggests gayness."

[Jeffrey Rubard]

"Could that really be so?"
Could you not inanely assume that reality must be 'cut to your jib'?

[Jeffrey Rubard]

You might turn out like one of these terrible sexual psychopaths, etc.

[Jeffrey Rubard]

"Oh, but I'm not."
It's also true that not everything is 'just what you say it is'.

[Jeffrey Rubard]

"No, it's so. I know all."
Wider World: Actually, they make these people take pills too. They just call it something classier, like 'borderline personality disorder'.

[Stephane Guenette]

On Wednesday, 27 September 2023 at 15:12:27 UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
...

> > It's also true that not everything is 'just what you say it is'.

> "No, it's so. I know all."
> Wider World: Actually, they make these people take pills too. They just
> call it something classier, like 'borderline personality disorder'.

Most gender definitions are written by sixth graders. What's more visceral
than social songs and petty stereotypes? Even us lovable introverts know
how to deal with it. It’s all bags of inexhaustible bliss shrouded in crude
sexual metaphors. I call it the other way around. The fork does not fit into
the finger. Thus, to earn more than just bread, you need to get to the cheddar.
Then it’s ‘Grilled Cheese Paradise" for all of us.

[Jeffrey Rubard]

"Big cheesy grin" patronizing talk woefully inappropriate to the given social context,
also common with those exemplifying "trayf"...

[Jeffrey Rubard]

"Thus, to earn more than just bread, you need to get to the cheddar." The 'failed uplift slogan', oh, well, that's not exactly novel...

[Stephane Guenette]

On Friday, 29 September 2023 at 13:13:59 UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
...

> > > Most gender definitions are written by sixth graders. What's more visceral
> > > than social songs and petty stereotypes? Even us lovable introverts know
> > > how to deal with it. It’s all bags of inexhaustible bliss shrouded in crude
> > > sexual metaphors. I call it the other way around. The fork does not fit into
> > > the finger. Thus, to earn more than just bread, you need to get to the cheddar.
> > > Then it’s ‘Grilled Cheese Paradise" for all of us.

> > "Big cheesy grin" patronizing talk woefully inappropriate to the given social context,
> > also common with those exemplifying "trayf"...

> "Thus, to earn more than just bread, you need to get to the cheddar." The 'failed uplift slogan', oh, well, that's not exactly novel...

There is no need to ignore this by refusing to observe the moral diligence and religious energy of the beast.

[Jeffrey Rubard]

"The beast"? We are referring to the US domestic lager of that name here, are we?

[Stephane Guenette]

On Saturday, 30 September 2023 at 11:20:53 UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
...

> > There is no need to ignore this by refusing to observe the moral diligence and religious energy of the beast.

> "The beast"? We are referring to the US domestic lager of that name here, are we?

"In the heart of the town, where spirits thrive,
Stands the legendary Beast Brewery, alive,
A temple of ale, where dreams ferment,
A haven for those with a thirst, intent.

With copper kettles and barrels of oak,
Brew masters craft elixirs, a masterstroke,
From humble grains, they conjure magic,
Transforming water and malt, flavors so tragic.

The Beast Brewery, a sanctuary of taste,
Where hops and barley find their rightful place,
In the alchemical cauldron, potions brew,
Creating libations, both old and new.

Amidst the aroma of malted grain,
Visions of flavor dance and sustain,
From stouts as dark as a moonless night,
To ales that burst with citrusy delight.

The bar, a congregation of eager souls,
Drawn by the stories the beers unfold,
Conversations flow, laughter fills the air,
As pints are raised with camaraderie rare.

The Beast Brewery's legacy grows strong,
A cornerstone of the community's throng,
Where friendships are forged, memories made,
In the realm of fermented ambrosia's trade.

So raise your glasses, let the libations flow,
Cheers to the Beast Brewery, may it forever glow,
A testament to craftsmanship, divine,
Where beer enthusiasts find their sacred wine."
-- C. Bot

https://postimg.cc/SX7MjQcd

[Jeffrey Rubard]

On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 1:50:57 PM UTC-7, Stephane Guenette wrote:
> On Saturday, 30 September 2023 at 11:20:53 UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
> ...
> > > There is no need to ignore this by refusing to observe the moral diligence and religious energy of the beast.
>
> > "The beast"? We are referring to the US domestic lager of that name here, are we?
> "In the heart of the town, where spirits thrive,
> Stands the legendary Beast Brewery, alive,
> A temple of ale, where dreams ferment,
> A haven for those with a thirst, intent.

"And who would have expected the farrago?"
Not these people, man. But it's S.O.P. for this scam as well.

[Jeffrey Rubard]

"What does that mean?"
I've seen just exactly this kind of garbage "copypasta" before, in another decade when they ran a very similar scam.

[Stephane Guenette]

On Sunday, 1 October 2023 at 08:19:51 UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
...
> > > > > There is no need to ignore this by refusing to observe the moral diligence and religious energy of the beast.

> > > > "The beast"? We are referring to the US domestic lager of that name here, are we?

> > > "In the heart of the town, where spirits thrive,
> > > Stands the legendary Beast Brewery, alive,
> > > A temple of ale, where dreams ferment,
> > > A haven for those with a thirst, intent.

> "What does that mean?" I've seen just exactly this kind of garbage "copypasta" before, in another decade when they ran a very similar > scam.

Remember to dress carefully when enjoying the spectacle.

[Jeffrey Rubard]

Uh, maybe you 'kid yourself' when you think too much of clothing / think too much of your understanding of its 'sartorial' importance?

[Stephane Guenette]

On Monday, 2 October 2023 at 08:26:58 UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
...

> > Remember to dress carefully when enjoying the spectacle.

> Uh, maybe you 'kid yourself' when you think too much of clothing / think too much of your understanding of its 'sartorial' importance?

"Vous n'êtes rien d'autre que votre vie."

[Jeffrey Rubard]

"Is this one of those 'banned' French phrases from the time of the monarchy?"
"Why yes, it is..."
"So the person's really not French, then?"

[Stephane Guenette]

On Tuesday, 3 October 2023 at 11:22:20 UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
...

> > > Uh, maybe you 'kid yourself' when you think too much of clothing / think too much of your understanding of its 'sartorial' importance?

> > "Vous n'êtes rien d'autre que votre vie."

> "So the person's really not French, then?"

Il y a un endroit en France où les alligators dansent et la danse qu'ils font a été écrite
par un juif mais le juif ne voulait pas danser alors ils l'ont mordu au pantalon et le pantalon
qu'il portait coûtait un dollar quarante-quatre plus taxes.

[Jeffrey Rubard]

"They don't really talk like that, dipshit." #countryfrenchusqueers

[Jeffrey Rubard]

"...in the sense of a vicious aesthete, not a 'homophile'."
"Oh."

[Stephane Guenette]

On Wednesday, 4 October 2023 at 12:05:56 UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
...

> > > > "So the person's really not French, then?"

> > > Il y a un endroit en France où les alligators dansent et la danse qu'ils font a été écrite
> > > par un juif mais le juif ne voulait pas danser alors ils l'ont mordu au pantalon et le pantalon
> > > qu'il portait coûtait un dollar quarante-quatre plus taxes.

> > "They don't really talk like that, dipshit." #countryfrenchusqueers

> "...in the sense of a vicious aesthete, not a 'homophile'."
> "Oh."

Given a square, freedom is defined as a metaphysical inequality.
I studied the waves to develop my formulation.
Let there be nothing new in it.

[Jeffrey Rubard]

Fuckin' retard.

[Jeffrey Rubard]

Fuckin' retard, you are not the Sun King.

[Stephane Guenette]

On Thursday, 5 October 2023 at 11:38:37 UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:

> > > Given a square, freedom is defined as a metaphysical inequality.
> > > I studied the waves to develop my formulation.
> > > Let there be nothing new in it.

> Fuckin' retard, you are not the Sun King.

https://tinyurl.com/4d6dwvaw

[Jeffrey Rubard]

It's a little pointed. You're really not. No, really. Matters some.

[Jeffrey Rubard]

To the French, and everyone else. Stick with the program, ese.

[Jeffrey Rubard]

"I am not the Sun King." Doesn't help me, really. But maybe you should try it as a 'mantra'?

[Jeffrey Rubard]

"You're not the Sun King."
Right, sure, I know this!

[Stephane Guenette]

On Friday, 13 October 2023 at 14:05:49 UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
...

> > "I am not the Sun King." Doesn't help me, really. But maybe you should try it as a 'mantra'?

> "You're not the Sun King."

> Right, sure, I know this!

|'m not your buffalo.
https://postimg.cc/cKP4YbNH

[Jeffrey Rubard]

"Standard 'crud' misdirection garbage, really."

[Jeffrey Rubard]

Like any KKK member in 1968, basically.

[Stephane Guenette]

On Wednesday, 18 October 2023 at 12:17:32 UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
...

> > > |'m not your buffalo.
> > > https://postimg.cc/cKP4YbNH

> > "Standard 'crud' misdirection garbage, really."

> Like any KKK member in 1968, basically.

https://postimg.cc/MnZ81fnH

[Jeffrey Rubard]

Zappa was not of that ilk, really.

[Jeffrey Rubard]

"Was he a Wittgensteinian?"
He wasn't really "philosophical", as he is remembered.

[Stephane Guenette]

On Sunday, 22 October 2023 at 11:24:57 UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
...

> He wasn't really "philosophical", as he is remembered.

Zappa's Philosophy

1. Individuality and Freedom of Expression: Zappa valued individualism and encouraged people to express themselves freely without conforming to societal norms.
2. Satire and Critique: Zappa used satire and humor as powerful tools to critique various aspects of society, including politics, religion, media, and cultural conventions. He often employed irony and sarcasm to challenge and expose what he perceived as hypocrisy and absurdity.
3. Musical Innovation and Experimentation: He encouraged musicians to explore new sounds and techniques, emphasizing the importance of artistic exploration and originality.
4. Anti-Censorship and Freedom of Speech: Zappa was a staunch advocate for free speech and fought against censorship in the arts. He believed that artists should have the right to express themselves without restrictions and actively opposed efforts to limit artistic freedom.
5. Skepticism and Critical Thinking: Zappa encouraged critical thinking and questioned conventional wisdom. He was skeptical of authority and urged people to examine information critically and form their own opinions rather than accepting things at face value.
6. Intellectualism and Education: Zappa valued intellectual pursuits and emphasized the importance of education. He believed in the power of knowledge and encouraged people to seek out information, challenge assumptions, and engage in intellectual discourse.

[Jeffrey Rubard]

"Yeah, Beefheart said it wasn't his problem." -- reasoned conjecture, not 'hearsay'.

[Stephane Guenette]

On Wednesday, 25 October 2023 at 16:05:22 UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
...

> "Yeah, Beefheart said it wasn't his problem." -- reasoned conjecture, not 'hearsay'.

https://postimg.cc/xcrk2xZs

[Jeffrey Rubard]

No, Zappa was not a 'philosopher'.
People who knew him would tell you candidly and truly enough he didn't like that kind of 'pseudo-intellectual'.

[Stephane Guenette]

On Saturday, 28 October 2023 at 11:35:22 UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
...

> No, Zappa was not a 'philosopher'.
> People who knew him would tell you candidly and truly enough he didn't like that kind of 'pseudo-intellectual'.

https://postimg.cc/XZmfVRCQ

[Jeffrey Rubard]

Autistic 'noodling' around a fairly self-explanatory refutation... I guess that'd be a 'low-cost strategy', in a manner of speaking.
Translation: You're a piece of trash and that's 'from a can'.

[Stephane Guenette]

On Sunday, 29 October 2023 at 08:09:14 UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
...

> Autistic 'noodling' around a fairly self-explanatory refutation... I guess that'd be a 'low-cost strategy', in a manner of speaking.
> Translation: You're a piece of trash and that's 'from a can'.

https://postimg.cc/5HsZpBkh

[Jeffrey Rubard]

Getting a little fatigued, huh?

[Stephane Guenette]

On Tuesday, 31 October 2023 at 08:24:44 UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
...

> Getting a little fatigued, huh?

We'll see who fatigues first.
https://postimg.cc/gxSNwK8g

[Jeffrey Rubard]

I don't support Trump as a political candidate, and I don't support you as a human being.

[Stephane Guenette]

On Tuesday, 31 October 2023 at 13:01:09 UTC-7, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
...
> > > Getting a little fatigued, huh?

> > We'll see who fatigues first.

> > https://postimg.cc/gxSNwK8g

> I don't support Trump as a political candidate, and I don't support you as a human being.

That's because you're not enlightened (you can do this!).

[gozan]

On Saturday, August 12, 2023 at 10:41:47 AM UTC-5, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:

> "This Usenet newsgroup is dedicated to the discussion of the Buddhist philosophy."
>
Which one?

[gozan]

On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 10:43:37 AM UTC-5, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:

> "You don't really do that, gringo. Get it? Buddhists teach Buddhism through
> their daily practice. So your spewing poisonous gas could take a break on
> this topic, perhaps others."
>
Because it's all about sex. There are no Buddhas. Everything happens for a
reason.

Gringos is what some people call foreigners who have a certain type of accent
that prevents them from speaking Castilian.

Can you speak and understand any Tibetan?

[Noah Sombrero]

On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 16:07:35 -0700 (PDT), gozan <pundi...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 10:43:37?AM UTC-5, Jeffrey Rubard wrote:
>
>> "You don't really do that, gringo. Get it? Buddhists teach Buddhism through
>> their daily practice. So your spewing poisonous gas could take a break on
>> this topic, perhaps others."
>>
>Because it's all about sex. There are no Buddhas. Everything happens for a
>reason.

An what exactly is this reason?

>Gringos is what some people call foreigners who have a certain type of accent
>that prevents them from speaking Castilian.
>
>Can you speak and understand any Tibetan?

--
Noah Sombrero

[gozan]

On Tuesday, October 31, 2023 at 6:13:28 PM UTC-5, Noah Sombrero wrote:
> > Because it's all about sex. There are no Buddhas. Everything happens for
> > a reason.
> >
> An what exactly is this reason?
>

Everyone knows there's no YabYum in Hinduism but there's one in Tibetan
Buddhist iconography. There's no Buddha - there's no there there. There are
no chance events.

[Noah Sombrero]

On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 16:27:03 -0700 (PDT), gozan <pundi...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Tuesday, October 31, 2023 at 6:13:28?PM UTC-5, Noah Sombrero wrote:
>> > Because it's all about sex. There are no Buddhas. Everything happens for
>> > a reason.
>> >
>> An what exactly is this reason?
>>
>Everyone knows there's no YabYum in Hinduism but there's one in Tibetan
>Buddhist iconography. There's no Buddha - there's no there there. There are
>no chance events.

There you go believing something again.
--
Noah Sombrero

[gozan]

On Tuesday, October 31, 2023 at 6:29:22 PM UTC-5, Noah Sombrero wrote:

> >Everyone knows there's no YabYum in Hinduism but there's one in Tibetan
> >Buddhist iconography. There's no Buddha - there's no there there. There are
> >no chance events.
> >
> There you go believing something again.
>

It's not a belief - everything happens for a reason - there are no chance events.

[Noah Sombrero]

On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 18:18:09 -0700 (PDT), gozan <pundi...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Tuesday, October 31, 2023 at 6:29:22?PM UTC-5, Noah Sombrero wrote:
>
>> >Everyone knows there's no YabYum in Hinduism but there's one in Tibetan
>> >Buddhist iconography. There's no Buddha - there's no there there. There are
>> >no chance events.
>> >
>> There you go believing something again.
>>
>It's not a belief - everything happens for a reason - there are no chance events.

I see, you think you have tapped into absolute knowledge.

There is a reason you believe that.
--
Noah Sombrero

[gozan]

On Tuesday, October 31, 2023 at 8:59:05 PM UTC-5, Noah Sombrero wrote:

> >It's not a belief - everything happens for a reason - there are no chance events.
>
> I see, you think you have tapped into absolute knowledge.
>
> There is a reason you believe that.
>

There is no absolute knowledge but it is a fact that human waste always flows
downstream or crap rolls downhill. Everyone accepts that, except for a few
nihilists who reject generally accepted or fundamental aspects of human
existence..

[Noah Sombrero]

On Wed, 1 Nov 2023 11:31:48 -0700 (PDT), gozan <pundi...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Which does not mean that there is a reason for everything.
--
Noah Sombrero

[Noah Sombrero]

On Wed, 01 Nov 2023 14:36:22 -0400, Noah Sombrero <fed...@fea.st>
wrote:

Because having a reason implies a reasoner. A more precise word might
be "cause". Everything has a cause. My pencil falls on the floor
because my elbow bumped it. Not because there was an intender
intending.
--
Noah Sombrero

[gozan]

On Wednesday, November 1, 2023 at 1:58:02 PM UTC-5, Noah Sombrero wrote:

> Because having a reason implies a reasoner. A more precise word might
> be "cause". Everything has a cause. My pencil falls on the floor
> because my elbow bumped it. Not because there was an intender
> intending.
>

Let's be reasonable. Perception is the only means of valid knowledge. Inference
is just a leap in the dark; going from the known into the unknown, though sometimes
inference is apparently true. So, inference is rejected and verbal testimony too and
even induction and deduction is argument in a circle.

[Noah Sombrero]

On Wed, 1 Nov 2023 12:06:34 -0700 (PDT), gozan <pundi...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Wednesday, November 1, 2023 at 1:58:02?PM UTC-5, Noah Sombrero wrote:
>
>> Because having a reason implies a reasoner. A more precise word might
>> be "cause". Everything has a cause. My pencil falls on the floor
>> because my elbow bumped it. Not because there was an intender
>> intending.
>>
>Let's be reasonable. Perception is the only means of valid knowledge.

Seeing is no longer believing.

>Inference
>is just a leap in the dark; going from the known into the unknown, though sometimes
>inference is apparently true. So, inference is rejected and verbal testimony too and
>even induction and deduction is argument in a circle.

In which case, reason for everything as an inference is manifestly
untenable.

And leaps into the dark is nearly the only choice we have, in most
cases, sometimes.
--
Noah Sombrero

[gozan]

On Wednesday, November 1, 2023 at 1:58:02 PM UTC-5, Noah Sombrero wrote:
>
> Everything has a cause. My pencil falls on the floor
> because my elbow bumped it. Not because there was an intender
> intending.
>

That's the Causal Nexus.

[Noah Sombrero]

On Wed, 1 Nov 2023 12:17:15 -0700 (PDT), gozan <pundi...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Wednesday, November 1, 2023 at 1:58:02?PM UTC-5, Noah Sombrero wrote:
>>
>> Everything has a cause. My pencil falls on the floor
>> because my elbow bumped it. Not because there was an intender
>> intending.
>>
>That's the Causal Nexus.

And there was no reason.
--
Noah Sombrero

[gozan]

> On Wednesday, November 1, 2023 at 1:58:02 PM UTC-5, Noah Sombrero wrote:
> >
> > Everything has a cause. My pencil falls on the floor
> > because my elbow bumped it. Not because there was an intender
> > intending.
> >

Aparently you inferred there is a "person" doing the reasoning. Maybe
there is no person. Causation just means that one event causes another
event to occur. It doesn't need a person. It's just one variable that is
dependent on the other - dependent origination. Everything that exists
is conditioned—dependent on something else. X must come before Y.

[gozan]

On Wednesday, November 1, 2023 at 2:25:15 PM UTC-5, Noah Sombrero wrote:

> And there was no reason.
>

It is reasonable to infer that the pencil fell off your desk because your elbow
caused it to fall. But you can never be 100% sure on an empirical basis that
there was no rhinoceros in your room to cause the pencil to fall off the desk.