Breakthrough for gay male mothers!

[Ned]

I kid you not. They have found a way to create a human
egg cell from a stem cell, which can be fertilized with a
sperm...
---
IVG could create eggs from one of Hurtado's cells that could
then be fertilized with sperm from his partner. A surrogate
mother could then carry the resulting embryo through to the
birth of a baby genetically related to both men.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/07/15/1184298351/conception-human-eggs-ivg-ivf-infertility
---

It's all over now, baby blue!

Ned

(I mean, what could possibly go wrong?)

[Noah Sombrero]

On Sat, 15 Jul 2023 09:06:40 -0700 (PDT), Ned <ned...@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:

A male egg donor could only produce male offspring, because he doesn't
have an x chromosome.
--
Noah Sombrero

[Ned]

So what? They'd have boys. And if homosexuality has any
genetic component, the world would fill with gay men. Maybe
they would become a voting majority. Then what?

And did you read this...
---
Cells stolen from people, such as celebrities, could be used
to make babies without their consent. Single individuals could
even make babies with nothing but their own DNA.
---

How do you like that?

Ned

[Ned]

BTW, a male has an X and a Y chromosome. I don't know
how they make the egg from the stem cell, but they could
use the X half.

Ned

[Noah Sombrero]

On Sat, 15 Jul 2023 09:20:47 -0700 (PDT), Ned <ned...@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:

Male produces egg which is not fertilized by a sperm, which develops.
Some species can do that, like turkeys, but others not. It is called
parthenogenesis. Successful monoecious birth produce young that are
not able to reproduce and are weak to disease.

>Ned
--
Noah Sombrero

[Noah Sombrero]

On Sat, 15 Jul 2023 09:27:04 -0700 (PDT), Ned <ned...@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:

>On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 9:20:48?AM UTC-7, Ned wrote:

Ah so it is. Females are xx, males are xy. Yes, this could work.
With a male sperm donor, children are either xy or yx or yy (not good
as far as I know). So still no females.

And monoecious adults (single y or x) are still infertile and weak to
disease should humans be able to develop that way. I haven't heard
that they can.

>Ned
--
Noah Sombrero

[Noah Sombrero]

On Sat, 15 Jul 2023 12:59:02 -0400, Noah Sombrero <fed...@fea.st>

Thinking more. Yes, they could produce an xx. So the odds would be
50% male, 25% female, and 25% stillborn.

[Julian]

On 15/07/2023 17:20, Ned wrote:
> On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 9:08:36 AM UTC-7, Noah Sombrero wrote:
>> On Sat, 15 Jul 2023 09:06:40 -0700 (PDT), Ned <ned...@ix.netcom.com>
>> wrote:
>>> I kid you not. They have found a way to create a human
>>> egg cell from a stem cell, which can be fertilized with a
>>> sperm...
>>> ---
>>> IVG could create eggs from one of Hurtado's cells that could
>>> then be fertilized with sperm from his partner. A surrogate
>>> mother could then carry the resulting embryo through to the
>>> birth of a baby genetically related to both men.
>>> https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/07/15/1184298351/conception-human-eggs-ivg-ivf-infertility
>>> ---
>>>
>>> It's all over now, baby blue!
>>>
>>> Ned
>>>
>>> (I mean, what could possibly go wrong?)
>>
>> A male egg donor could only produce male offspring, because he doesn't
>> have an x chromosome.
>> --
>> Noah Sombrero
>>
>
> So what? They'd have boys. And if homosexuality has any
> genetic component, the world would fill with gay men. Maybe
> they would become a voting majority. Then what?

Noah could rest.

[Noah Sombrero]

On Sat, 15 Jul 2023 23:37:09 +0100, Julian <julia...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On 15/07/2023 17:20, Ned wrote:

Julian would be delighted.
--
Noah Sombrero

[liaM]

We'll get rid of the pests. AI will do it. No need for gender
or sex. Since a human's DNA can be fully encapsulated as data,
a way will be found to use it to reproduce a working human. And since
the DNA is data, it can also be edited and used to improve on
the original. Soon enough, mothers and fathers will be obsolete.
Yet the cycle of birth, suffering and death will continue. Is not
the fundamental goal of AI, cloning?

[Ned]

If you're going to "improve on the original", then you won't want
to clone, which would just make a copy of the original.

But this thing with the egg-men above, and the potential for "cells
stolen from people, such as celebrities" could get interesting.
We probably have viable DNA samples going back hundreds
of years (possibly). You could make another Einstein. You
could make a SMARTER Einstein. How about that?

The neo-nazis could make a sane Hitler. You could make a
whole set of Trumps.

The world might get a lot stranger in a hurry.

Ned

[Noah Sombrero]

On Sat, 15 Jul 2023 19:35:57 -0700 (PDT), Ned <ned...@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:

I don't know how you are going to convince people to stop having sex,
but I for one will hobble out (at my age) into the middle of the
street and wave my protest sign around. "You can take my sex, when
you unwrap my cold dead fingers from around it". Or something.

>If you're going to "improve on the original", then you won't want
>to clone, which would just make a copy of the original.
>
>But this thing with the egg-men above, and the potential for "cells
>stolen from people, such as celebrities" could get interesting.
>We probably have viable DNA samples going back hundreds
>of years (possibly). You could make another Einstein. You
>could make a SMARTER Einstein. How about that?
>
>The neo-nazis could make a sane Hitler. You could make a
>whole set of Trumps.
>
>The world might get a lot stranger in a hurry.

Julian will be delighted.

>Ned
--
Noah Sombrero

[liaM]

Love the idea of making a sane Hitler. A good mama's son, faithful gay
husband, skillful artist, teacher, and occasional poster on Usenet. YAY

Neo-nazis would definitely be disappointed, however, unless they too
were improved clones of themselves.

[Ned]

Yeah, I thought about that too, the minute I wrote it. A sane Hitler
is a pretty tall order. Might break the CRISPR machine. A large
part of his charm was the insanity. (Kinda like, well, you know.)

Somebody somewhere must have a list of the sane Nazis of the
Third Reich. Admittedly a short list, but a list none the less.
Probably have Albert Spear on it. And Erwin Rommel. Who else?
Some DNA of those folks might still be around. We could cobble
together a Frankenhitler. (Where's Dar when you really need him?)

Ned

[liaM]

Ain't ever been sane Nazi or Neo-Nazi, ever.

Competent as they were, Speer, Rommel, Goebbels were no less crazy to be
working for a crazy man, than the crazy man himself.

The same phenomenon happens wherever crazies or a crazy person are in
power, i.e. today's Rebublicans, or Boris Johnson's Conservatives.
Only similarly crazy individuals partake of the craziness.

[Wilson]

Yeah, the news told me all those guys are crazy.

It's so great to have them figger out all this stuff for us.

[Noah Sombrero]

On Mon, 17 Jul 2023 07:58:53 -0400, Wilson <Wil...@nowhere.net> wrote:

>On 7/17/2023 7:42 AM, liaM wrote:
>> On 7/16/2023 10:36 PM, Ned wrote:

>>> On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 11:57:42?AM UTC-7, liaM wrote:
>>>> On 7/16/2023 4:35 AM, Ned wrote:

Oh, give us some goddamn credit for being able to think.
--
Noah Sombrero

[liaM]

Welcome to the club "I was clubbed by the news" club

[Ned]

We're all clubbies on this bus. The news has been telling us
what to do since there was news. The jungle drums told us
what to do. the Sumerian chants told us what to do. Hammurabi
told us what to do. The Bible told us what to do. Gutenberg told
us what to do. The radio told us what to do. Walter Cronkite
told us what to do. The internet tells us what to do. Musk, Zuck
and ChatGPT tell us what to do.

But getting back to the sane nazis, Goebbels was quite crazy.
I wouldn't say Speer was crazy in any way like Goebbels was.
Rommel was a good general and resisted Hitler at the end.
He was implicated in the plot to assassinate him, and chose
to take the cyanide pill offered to him, rather than have his
family destroyed. By my list of sane nazis is still pretty short,
however.

Not all of today's Republicans are crazy. Not all Tories of the
Boris Johnson ilk are crazy. Any TRUE pol will ride a crazy's
coattails if it will take him into office.

What you're seeing now in the Repubs is a resolution of their
craziness. They have screwed up enormously with the abortion
thing and I think they will lose next year's election because of it.
Specifically, I think they will be voted out of office at all levels
because 70% of women will not vote for them.

And there is not much they can do about it. They are between
a rock and a hard place on this issue. They finally got what they
wanted without realizing that they are a small minority of the
voting public on this issue, ie. that a landslide of the country
opposes restricting women's right to control their own bodies.

Watching them try to squirm out of their impossible predicament
will be pitifully entertaining over the next year.

Ned

[Noah Sombrero]

On Mon, 17 Jul 2023 07:33:31 -0700 (PDT), Ned <ned...@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:

>On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 5:57:40?AM UTC-7, liaM wrote:
>> On 7/17/2023 1:58 PM, Wilson wrote:
>> > On 7/17/2023 7:42 AM, liaM wrote:
>> >> On 7/16/2023 10:36 PM, Ned wrote:

>> >>> On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 11:57:42?AM UTC-7, liaM wrote:
>> >>>> On 7/16/2023 4:35 AM, Ned wrote:

Not a word of truth here, right, wilson?
--
Noah Sombrero

[liaM]

The technical term for what is gripping politics nearly everywhere
on the planet, is "mass hysteria". Mass hysteria in the Age of
Aquarius. Here is the water carrier's Urn stirred up and sloshing media
shit all through the globe at the speed of the Internet. And you guys,
so preoccupied with woke, party politics, etc. are the credulous
marks lapping it up in a frenzy.

[Ned]

Well good lord, liaM, I apologize profusely for lapping up the
sloshing media shit of the mass hysteria spilling out of the
aquarian water carrier's urn as the credulous mark that I am.

Can't a man have a drink?

Ned

[Julian]

Since you sought out and participate in this obscure
aspect of the internet you qualify as a "you guys."

"Like an unskilled doctor, fallen ill, you lose heart and cannot
discover by which remedies to cure your own disease." - Aeschylus

Ἰατρέ, θεράπευσον σεαυτόν Luke 4:23

אסיא אסי חיגרתך
Genesis Rabbah 23:4

"Dijo el sartén a la caldera, Quítate allá ojinegra " Sancho Panza

[liaM]

Have a drink a swig of this, Ned - vintage, universal doubt.

[Wilson]

Those are quality spirits.

[Wilson]

Maybe.

There might well be more people out there who believe abortion is wrong
than you will see from your redoubt in crazy California.

If you're right, is seems as though the Dems would be gaining a big lead
in the Presidential polls. But Biden is not leading in any meaningful
way against Trump:
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2024/president/us/general-election-trump-vs-biden-7383.html


So, yeah. Maybe.

[Ned]

Telephone Hill (with Absinthe)

Point Reyes is hidden,
Bodega Head floats
on mist and white foam.
The PT Boat breasts
the onrushing waves,
ever immobile,
before the islands
in sparkling ocean,
glimmering jewels
on a pale blue sea.
The hills fade at their
foundation, aloft
and unchanging, yet
never repeating
their austere presence.
And this bee won't quit
bothering me - it
can't be the absinthe,
which is well covered,
in a mustard jar,
perhaps it's the beer -
Hemp Ale from Paso
Robles - yeah I bet.
And the trucks and the
cars on Highway 1
grumble and struggle
up the switchbacks that
crisscross the shoreline
that nature never
thought would be traveled.
Now the late morning
has moved the sun past
the branch above me,
and the warmth and the
breeze fill my body.
The jays and ravens
object to this crime
against nature - Drunk
before noon. Fuck em!
This is a very
special day - a day
alone on the edge
of the continent...
I just got back from
a pee on a tree
up the hill, and the
burrs cling to my pants
as if wanting to
relocate. I guess
even Eden is
insufficient for
those who would travel.
And the jar and the
bottle are empty,
and the sun is hot,
and the haze still hides
Point Reyes, far away,
above Bodega,
and the misty bay.

- Ned

[liaM]

I did mention me, previously.

... me making a sane Hitler. A good mama's son,

>>>>>>>> faithful gay
>>>>>>>> husband, skillful artist, teacher, and occasional poster on
>>>>>>>> Usenet. YAY

[liaM]

Now that's a drive I'm in tune with !!!

The switchbacks to Stimson Beach past Bolinas to Point Reyes station
and beyond to the cliff's edges at the lighthouse over the Pacific
And the beer and the fresh oysters from beds fought
over with authorities insisting on pushing
the private off public lands..
How unzipping one's private parts for a pee in the wild
awakes the jeers and the fears of one's public mind

Thanks for the switchback, Ned :) !

[Ned]

Any time.

Ned

[Noah Sombrero]

On Mon, 17 Jul 2023 16:41:14 -0400, Wilson <Wil...@nowhere.net> wrote:

>On 7/17/2023 10:33 AM, Ned wrote:

>> On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 5:57:40?AM UTC-7, liaM wrote:
>>> On 7/17/2023 1:58 PM, Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 7/17/2023 7:42 AM, liaM wrote:
>>>>> On 7/16/2023 10:36 PM, Ned wrote:

>>>>>> On Sunday, July 16, 2023 at 11:57:42?AM UTC-7, liaM wrote:
>>>>>>> On 7/16/2023 4:35 AM, Ned wrote:

At this point liaM's fantasy and ned's poesy is forgotten and we
return you once again to the world where wilson does not believe. And
ned does. Do I see flashes of lightening on the horizon? Yes, I do.
Doesn't matter though. Things are still peaceful on my street.
--
Noah Sombrero

[Wilson]

What don't I believe?

[Noah Sombrero]

All sorts of things, including the possibility that abortion rights
will hurt the r's in coming elections.

But in this case:

>> The same phenomenon happens wherever crazies or a crazy person are in
>> power, i.e. today's Rebublicans, or Boris Johnson's Conservatives.
>> Only similarly crazy individuals partake of the craziness.
>
>Yeah, the news told me all those guys are crazy.
>
>It's so great to have them figger out all this stuff for us.

Your contempt for the intelligence of other people is clearly visible
here. Not that I think a person needs to be crazy to participate in
craziness. We can all be deceived, including you.
--
Noah Sombrero

[Creon]

The more I lurk, the dumber I feel. :/

So, hmm...do we already have the capability to create eggs from
female stem cells, and sperm from male stem cells;
for fertility clinics? Chatty says "not yet for humans".

(And, indeed: will we need to wear armor in
the future to prevent the theft of our precious
bodily cells?)

--
-c

[Ned]

It's all over. You leave genetic material everywhere. A prankster
could get a sluffed-off cheek cell from your discarded soda cup
and breed a child with your DNA proving you were the father, and
you would have to support it for the next 18 years.

Sounds like a business opportunity.

Ned

[Noah Sombrero]

And perhaps not ever. Stem cells are undifferentiated cells waiting
for the body to tell it what they need to become. Stem cells do not
develop directly into eggs and sperm. But they could become ovaries
and testes.

>(And, indeed: will we need to wear armor in
>the future to prevent the theft of our precious
>bodily cells?)

Stem cells are deep within.
--
Noah Sombrero

[Noah Sombrero]

On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 07:40:37 -0700 (PDT), Ned <ned...@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:

I suspect a prankster would not have the tech nor the brains to do
such a thing.

>Sounds like a business opportunity.
>
>Ned

--
Noah Sombrero

[Wilson]

But I said, "maybe" it's true that it will hurt their chances.

And you spun that into an entire diatribe of bullshit.

[Wilson]

>> It's all over. You leave genetic material everywhere. A prankster
>> could get a sluffed-off cheek cell from your discarded soda cup
>> and breed a child with your DNA proving you were the father, and
>> you would have to support it for the next 18 years.
>
> I suspect a prankster would not have the tech nor the brains to do
> such a thing.

Someone has never been on 4chan.

[liaM]

Yep. Done

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1025100/

[liaM]

It shows that the Republicans won't bend on their principles to grub
for votes. How fine is that. May they get their just reward.

[Ned]

Yeah, like that. Sounds good (from the wiki article). I'll try to
watch it. (I like all the stars in it.)

Ned

(I still think clones are going to be harder than we think.
Something about taking a being from one 'time' or era
and re-creating them in another era, might have big
problems with the immune system being out of sync
with the new environment.)

[Ned]

Well, they've bent on everything else. I don't see why
they won't try to bend on this one. I really do hope they
stand fast on the abortion issue, however, because it
will kill them.

Ned

[Noah Sombrero]

People with those skills and equipment don't hang out in internet chat
rooms.
--
Noah Sombrero

[Noah Sombrero]

On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 10:01:19 -0700 (PDT), Ned <ned...@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:

>On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 8:53:08?AM UTC-7, liaM wrote:
>> On 7/18/2023 4:40 PM, Ned wrote:

Granting such a wild possibility, what you would get would not be a
new cary grant but a new person with similar potentials. Even
identical twins are different and end up living different lives.
--
Noah Sombrero

[Noah Sombrero]

No, I read this:

> It's so great to have them figger out all this stuff for us.

And I heard you the first time.
--
Noah Sombrero

[Noah Sombrero]

I suspect that the abortion issue is exactly that, grubbing for votes
in parts of the country where that works. Which then gives them a
power base from which to operate.
--
Noah Sombrero

[Wilson]

That is absolutely true for most politicians. But I've talked to a lot
of pro-life people and those have been very sincere about their position
that the fetus is human life, and it needs to be protected.

[liaM]

Cloning mammals has been done. AI proposes cloning minds.

And it's ohappening. ChatGPT's giant step in that direction, is
its mastery of language. Noah Chomsky showed the way with
his 1960 book "Syntactical Structures", showing that human
minds have built in functions that support the development of language.

And that's what AI hackers succeeded at doing, building language
skills that can "drive themselves" through the repositories
that exist on the WW web, indexing it all to be at the ready
to answer questions.

But asking a question supposes a need of some kind. This is no
doubt why AI is an existential threat. Imagine some old 90 year
old billionaire has his network's AI newsreader programmed with the
goal to discredit an election.

[liaM]

Not Will Smith's best. Worse still, the CGI stinks :)

[Ned]

Would you then recommend 'turning off' the threatening AI, in order,
of course, to save Democracy? Like they 'turned off' Trump during
his insurrection on Twitter and Facebook?

Ned

[Wilson]

Assuming that it would be a 90 year old billionaire and not your own
government.

[Noah Sombrero]

Which makes them all the more exploitable.
--
Noah Sombrero

[liaM]

Letting predators fight it out is my choice. As I said several moons
ago, Elon's approach is to let the greedy creeps vent their ambitions
and crassness for everyone to see and I approve this as the best way to
lance an abcess.

[Ned]

Yeah. And as I said several moons ago, this is dangerous with Elon
in charge of it, because he has demonstrated from day one that he
will put his finger on the scale to tip the balance, if he thinks
something isn't fair or if it is critical of him.

But far be it from me to interfere with the free exchange of ideas.
Having survived in an unmoderated usenet group for 30 years
(as of this coming Dec. 2nd) I think it is at least theoretically
possible to let the greedy creeps have at each other.

Ned

[liaM]

It's getting better all the time... can't get no worse.

But Elon is doing, has accomplished, incredible, marvelous things
and that should be included in a summation that includes the
worse, no?

[Noah Sombrero]

On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 11:30:02 +0200, liaM <cud...@mindless.com> wrote:

>On 7/19/2023 5:53 AM, Ned wrote:

>> On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 4:13:00?PM UTC-7, liaM wrote:
>>> On 7/18/2023 9:48 PM, Ned wrote:

>>>> On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 12:13:25?PM UTC-7, liaM wrote:
>>>>> On 7/18/2023 7:01 PM, Ned wrote:

It would be better if they were actually exchanging ideas.

>> Having survived in an unmoderated usenet group for 30 years
>> (as of this coming Dec. 2nd) I think it is at least theoretically
>> possible to let the greedy creeps have at each other.
>>
>> Ned
>
>It's getting better all the time... can't get no worse.

Who sez? The time honored solution for filled outdoor toilets: fill
them in. Otherwise they don't get no better.

>But Elon is doing, has accomplished, incredible, marvelous things
>and that should be included in a summation that includes the
>worse, no?

Is there some shortage of places where greedy creeps can do what they
do?

The final solution for twitter: don't go there, ignore it, and stop
talking about it.

>
--
Noah Sombrero

[Noah Sombrero]

On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 07:49:09 -0400, Noah Sombrero <fed...@fea.st>
wrote:

In this case, it is not necessary to dig a new one.

[Ned]

What? Like the car in orbit?...
https://mediacloud.theweek.com/image/private/s--9wLumt3d--/v1608495370/20180209edhoc-a.jpg

OK, you make your list and I'll make my list.

PayPal, Tesla, SpaceX, OpenAI (co-founder). He has used Twitter
to spread flat-out lies about Covid (like Trump) which caused the
disease to spread more rapidly; and he used Twitter to spread lies
about the attack on Nancy Pelosi's husband. He has...
- called artificial intelligence the greatest existential threat to humanity
- called climate change the greatest threat to humanity
- called declining birth rates one of the biggest risks to human civilization

He has been accused by the Israel government (and several media
outlets) of antisemitism because he has spread conspiracy theories
about George Soros.

He has proposed colonizing Mars and terraforming it with nuclear
weapons.

He openly supported Republican Ron DeSantis for the 2024 U.S.
presidential election by hosting DeSantis's announcement on a
massively bungled Twitter Spaces event.

So, he's very inventive, and more than a little crazy.

Pick your poison.

Ned

P.S. And things can ALWAYS get worse.

[Julian]

Is the an App for weighing lists?

[Ned]

I have the fattest lists.

What do I win?

Ned

[liaM]

Hysteria, Ned is thy name :)

[liaM]

To measure mental ooze?

[Noah Sombrero]

On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 17:22:41 +0200, liaM <cud...@mindless.com> wrote:

>On 7/19/2023 3:19 PM, Ned wrote:

>> On Wednesday, July 19, 2023 at 2:30:07?AM UTC-7, liaM wrote:
>>> On 7/19/2023 5:53 AM, Ned wrote:

>>>> On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 4:13:00?PM UTC-7, liaM wrote:
>>>>> On 7/18/2023 9:48 PM, Ned wrote:

>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 18, 2023 at 12:13:25?PM UTC-7, liaM wrote:
>>>>>>> On 7/18/2023 7:01 PM, Ned wrote:

Only two views then, yours and hysteria?
--
Noah Sombrero

[Julian]

A gastric band.

Anyway fattest doesn't mean weightiness.
It might just be an inflatable list.
>
> Ned
>

[Julian]

Wouldn't work without a mental ooze density function.

[liaM]

not very prismatic of you, dear headless chicken

[liaM]

Noyep

[Noah Sombrero]

So now I need to be prismatic? Turn me this way, its yes, turn me
that way its no. Oh well, if that is what floats your boat, dear
incurable.

--
Noah Sombrero