I started my new career...
leebert
teaching, 4 hours a day of tech maint, planning and development, etc. Lots
of triage up front though, some old PII systems, etc. I still don't know
where all their servers are. Backups?
The 6th graders are like herding cats and too full of energy. A day doesn't
go by when someone doesn't fall out of their chair. "Are you OK? Is there
anything bruised besides your ego?" They're a lot of fun. I'm teaching them
computer lit, which comes down to word processing & powerpoint survival
skills. A great bunch, today I got them doing hot-key combinations.... "Undo
& Redo, Ctrl+Z and Ctrl+Y, will save you from disaster." Today's assignment
was to type "One bright morning at midnight..."
The Computer Science kids were stunned when I said "programming." Actually
they're going to design and write a multi-user game of some kind, starting
first with a textual game, maybe progressing to automata combat. In the
process they'll learn programming, analysis and design, object patterns,
etc.
The Graphics/Animation kids are going to go for an interesting ride, they'll
get to play with Photoshop & Maya 3D, maybe Flash or some open source
equivalent.
The Video Tech class is going to be as much about communications as video.
Next session, they're going to run their own news station, with bi-weekly
production cycles.
I'm in big trouble. I have to figure out how to get ahead on my lesson plans
while I figure out what the heck it is I'm going to teach them!
/leebert
Wilson
Luke Clossey
Where were you when I was in K-12? This sounds cool & fun & useful.
In high school computer class we would amuse ourselves by writing things
like "This computer has a virus" on the screen and then walk away. Or
switch the keyboards of two computers without switching the plugs. God,
we were bored.
Luke
daryl
Bloody wonderful Lee! Gainful employment! I bet you
puffed up your chest, strode mightily over to your wife,
and said "gimme back those pants". :)
Many congrats.
--
Daryl
daryl
We had no computers in my school at all. I got my start in the
industry by learning digital logic in electronics shop (my major).
Our teacher was a bit advanced for the times and somehow got the
school board to spring for some digital circuits training boxes,
which were each an assortment of primitive logic gates (AND, OR,
NOT), flipflops (one-bit memory and binary counters), jumper
wires, lights and a clock (square wave generator). He took us
through truth tables and all that stuff and let me take a
trainer box home on weekends. I made it cast the I Ching for
me. I aced the aptitude test given by a then large peripherals
company, as a result of my teacher's visionary teaching, and
built a career from there. In that era electronics training
was all oriented towards audio, radio and television, not
digital or computers.
The moral of the story, of course, is that every so often what
you teachers do actually matters in ways you or others might
not anticipate.
--
Daryl
William Hursthouse
wrote:
sounds really great! I have very fond memories of when Ecie and I were
first married and she was teaching kids just a few years younger than
her, we had to stay up each night learning the stuff she was going to
teach the next day! Some of those kids went on writing to her for 20
years, all the way from South Africa. I am sure the raw enthusiasm of
a young (as in new) teacher is something most kids get off on, and
never forget.
william
>
leebert
"daryl" <n...@address.yet> wrote
> The moral of the story, of course, is that every so often what
> you teachers do actually matters in ways you or others might
> not anticipate.
I told the CS kids that I'm not going to teach them programming, they'll
learn it as they design an application. Some of them took CS in other
highschools, it was HTML tags for a whole lousy year.
The best part is that I have 3 barbies that I have to keep on their toes....
"Ms. So&so, if you were an object, what would your properties be?"
/leebert
leebert
"daryl" <n...@address.yet> wrote
> Bloody wonderful Lee! Gainful employment! I bet you
> puffed up your chest, strode mightily over to your wife,
> and said "gimme back those pants". :)
Wha? I don get to play anymo?
Actually I'm bifurcated in so many other special ways, and have been
thinking about going w/ some primitive body mods ala abo.
> Many congrats.
Congratulate me when I have a living, breathing curriculum.
/leebert
leebert
"William Hursthouse" <wil...@stupaSAMSARA.org.nz> wrote
> sounds really great! I have very fond memories of when Ecie and I were
> first married and she was teaching kids just a few years younger than
> her, we had to stay up each night learning the stuff she was going to
> teach the next day! Some of those kids went on writing to her for 20
> years, all the way from South Africa.
Wow! What a wonderful experience.
> I am sure the raw enthusiasm of
> a young (as in new) teacher is something most kids get off on, and
> never forget.
At the moment I think it's a case of new, young enthusiasm of a raw teacher!
...& I better not forget my enthusiasm!
/leebert
Kirsten Bayes
>
>
> At the moment I think it's a case of new, young enthusiasm of a raw teacher!
>
>
> /leebert
I have been teaching marketing classes at the local university for the
last couple of years and really enjoy it.
The kids are way brighter than me, but I am way more cynical and world
weary than them, so it's an even match.
Best wishes
Kirsten
Robert Epstein
<sheepishly> geez, I wish I could get MY wife to give me MY pants back.....
<shuffling off to the kitchen....>
robert
bonfils
honourable Kirsten Bayes <kir...@removeplz.bayes.org.uk>
expostulated:
>leebert wrote:
>>
>>
>> At the moment I think it's a case of new, young enthusiasm of a raw teacher!
>>
>> ....& I better not forget my enthusiasm!
>>
>> /leebert
>
>I have been teaching marketing classes at the local university for the
>last couple of years and really enjoy it.
>
>The kids are way brighter than me, but I am way more cynical and world
>weary than them, so it's an even match.
When you learn marketing, aren't you supposed to *start* with "cynical
and world weary"?
You do start every class by chanting "Oh Lord of Darkness...", don't
you?
... or am I just *so seventies?
--
bonfils
http://kim.bonfils.com
"And let's face it: when a description of your life sounds like the name of a Bonfils track you're in deep, deep trouble."
- Kirsten Bayes, a.b.s.f.g.
KittyP
"leebert" <REPLA...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:cAN%c.3022$ug2....@fe2.texas.rr.com...
You are a very brave men.
Kitty
dt
Amen! Whereabouts are you teaching? Must be a private school.
nobody
"dt" <dte...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:chqell$rjm$1...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu...
Yeh. Not that I'd 'fess to anyone within hearin' distance which one it was.
/leebert
nobody
"Wilson" <puddinhe...@att.not> wrote
> It sounds awe some (and then some ).
Today was a test. A teacher's notebook had it's network config screwed up.
Wasted my planning period. Never again.
/leebert
Robert Epstein
"old age and treachery
will overcome youth and skill"
- on my former vipassana/yoga teacher's t-shirt
robert
Daryl
into public view via article <JX60d.6853$nC5....@fe1.texas.rr.com>:
Ah, the Christian one.
--
Daryl .... to email me add dawt cee eh?
"Remember, with practice, you, too, can be a showoff."
--Pete Watters
Wilson
"bonfils" <k...@bonfils.your.underwear.com> wrote ...
>
> On the day of our lord Thu, 09 Sep 2004 16:15:17 +0100, the most
> honourable Kirsten Bayes <kir...@removeplz.bayes.org.uk>
> expostulated:
>
> >leebert wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> At the moment I think it's a case of new, young enthusiasm of a raw teacher!
> >>
> >> ....& I better not forget my enthusiasm!
> >>
> >> /leebert
> >
> >I have been teaching marketing classes at the local university for the
> >last couple of years and really enjoy it.
> >
> >The kids are way brighter than me, but I am way more cynical and world
> >weary than them, so it's an even match.
>
> When you learn marketing, aren't you supposed to *start* with "cynical
> and world weary"?
> You do start every class by chanting "Oh Lord of Darkness...", don't
> you?
Marketing's not so bad you know. Discover what the customer needs and
then find a way to help them get it. All that stuff about getting people to do
things that they wouldn't normally do, that's manipulation not marketing.
nobody
"Daryl" <abs...@static-b2-190.highspeed.eol> wrote
> Ah, the Christian one.
LOL.
I can neither confirm nor deny whether they are Christians.
/leebert
lazarhat
news:oSr0d.11299$ug2....@fe2.texas.rr.com...
A good way to test is to take a few of them to a coliseum and turn loose a
few lions... if the lion eats 'em, they (were) Christians. If the lion
passes on eating 'em, chances are they're undernourished Buddhists.
-l
--
to email me, remove '_burnt_crusty_bits' from the email addy
"Freedom of choice is what you've got,
freedom from choice is what you want." - DEVO
Daryl
thoughts to escape into public view via article
Heh.
bob
KittyP wrote:
Best way in the world to learn something is to try to teach it.
Now all you have to do is keep their intrest up so that when you get
them in over their heads they want to keep on going.
You are a very brave man indeed.
bb
nobody
"bob" <hellb...@yohoo.com> wrote
> Best way in the world to learn something is to try to teach it.
>
> Now all you have to do is keep their intrest up so that when you get
> them in over their heads they want to keep on going.
>
> You are a very brave man indeed.
Brave? You give me too much credit. Fool hardy is more like it.
I plan to get them in over their heads by making it extremely interesting. I
did warn them that I'd try to help them right-size their projects so they
don't get burned by deadlines. I only have them for 2.5 hours/week classroom
time.
Heck, I'm pushing the 6th graders, still bouncy little kids. The
highschoolers can handle it, but they are so distracted at the moment by
being hormonally impaired it's kinda hilarious.
Still, they've got it easy compared to me. For me it's gonna be like
cramming for an exam all year.
/leebert
bonfils
honourable "Wilson" <puddinhe...@att.not> expostulated:
To quote Blackadder: "Have you visited planet Earth lately?"
--
bonfils
http://kim.bonfils.com
- To send me a massage, please remove your.underwear
Robert Epstein
and yet that's what's being done with most products these days. call it
what you like, it is convincing people to buy something they either
don't at all need, or would otherwise never bother buying, separating
the customer from his below-the-cost-of-living 60-hour-a-week salary.
Gone are the days when it was really about who's got the best pair of
shoes. I mean, the various brands of shoes are still out there, but
they don't even bother advertising. Since that's something people
actually need, they will come looking for it. But when you see 87
different cars that are essentially similar being associated with
various scenic wildernesses, assorted blondes [no offense to those of
blonde persuasion -- I'm married to one of Norwegian heritage] and
breaking the speed limit by a guy with a $500 sweater and $300 haircut,
what do you think it's really about?
robert
Robert Epstein
lazarhat wrote:
> "nobody" <as...@asdf.com> wrote in message
> news:oSr0d.11299$ug2....@fe2.texas.rr.com...
>
>>"Daryl" <abs...@static-b2-190.highspeed.eol> wrote
>>
>>
>>>Ah, the Christian one.
>>
>>LOL.
>>
>>I can neither confirm nor deny whether they are Christians.
>>
>>/leebert
>>
>>
>
>
> A good way to test is to take a few of them to a coliseum and turn loose a
> few lions... if the lion eats 'em, they (were) Christians. If the lion
> passes on eating 'em, chances are they're undernourished Buddhists.
>
> -l
>
impoverished zennies? they're a dime a dozen.
robert
Daryl
thoughts to escape into public view via article <41429239...@verizon.net>:
>
>
>
>Wilson wrote:
>> "bonfils" <k...@bonfils.your.underwear.com> wrote ...
>>
>>>On the day of our lord Thu, 09 Sep 2004 16:15:17 +0100, the most
>>>honourable Kirsten Bayes <kir...@removeplz.bayes.org.uk>
>>>expostulated:
>>>
>>>
>>>>leebert wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>At the moment I think it's a case of new, young enthusiasm of a raw teacher!
>>>>>
>>>>>....& I better not forget my enthusiasm!
>>>>>
>>>>>/leebert
>>>>
>>>>I have been teaching marketing classes at the local university for the
>>>>last couple of years and really enjoy it.
>>>>
>>>>The kids are way brighter than me, but I am way more cynical and world
>>>>weary than them, so it's an even match.
>>>
>>>When you learn marketing, aren't you supposed to *start* with "cynical
>>>and world weary"?
>>>You do start every class by chanting "Oh Lord of Darkness...", don't
>>>you?
>>
>>
>>
>> Marketing's not so bad you know. Discover what the customer needs and
>> then find a way to help them get it. All that stuff about getting people to do
>> things that they wouldn't normally do, that's manipulation not marketing.
>
>and yet that's what's being done with most products these days. call it
>what you like, it is convincing people to buy something they either
>don't at all need, or would otherwise never bother buying, separating
>the customer from his below-the-cost-of-living 60-hour-a-week salary.
Golly, like inkjet printers where the new cartridges are more
than half the price of a whole printer WITH a cartridge?
Or like allowing MP3 to be used like it was free just until
it reached market saturation?
dt
"Bob"? "BOB"??? You can't fool us; we *know* who you are!
How's the weather been? Y'all gettin' any of Sandy's hurricane leftovers?
DT
Kirsten Bayes
>
>
> When you learn marketing, aren't you supposed to *start* with "cynical
> and world weary"?
> You do start every class by chanting "Oh Lord of Darkness...", don't
> you?
>
>
Heh, well, I'd see it as a generic set of skills and knowledge. You can
wield it in the service of the evil corporations, or use it to promote a
charity, or indeed use the knowledge to challenge the evil corporations.
It's like playing the banjo, really.
KittyP
"Kirsten Bayes" <kir...@removeplz.bayes.org.uk> wrote in message
news:109488862...@nnrp-t71-02.news.clara.net...
LOLOLOL
William Hursthouse
>.......... The
>highschoolers can handle it, but they are so distracted at the moment by
>being hormonally impaired it's kinda hilarious.
LOL
and just as it so obvious to us while being so hidden from them, so
too grasshopper (cont. page 108)
>
>Still, they've got it easy compared to me. For me it's gonna be like
>cramming for an exam all year.
familiarity breeds content :-)
wm
>
>/leebert
>
>
leebert
"William Hursthouse" <wil...@stupaSAMSARA.org.nz> wrote in message
news:ktr6k09bqimu1fkno...@4ax.com...
How very curricular
> wm
> >
> >/leebert
> >
> >
>
bob
> "Bob"? "BOB"??? You can't fool us; we *know* who you are!
>
> How's the weather been? Y'all gettin' any of Sandy's hurricane leftovers?
>
> DT
>
Howed u no Dale?
We got two days of rain and I only had two screwed up a/c s to repair
from the power surges.
The freeway wreaks were continous. Many died (3 0r 4) Pretty typical for
a weekday and traffdic was hell (hardly worse then usual).
I like a good rain and that was all we had. Before it came I cleared the
sticks outta the rain garden I built but it turned out I never got a
chance to go outside to enjoy it.
I am ready for action in the terrist battle and have resprung the trusty
daisey gun.
BEWARE!
bb
Robert Epstein
yup.
robert
bonfils
>> Marketing's not so bad you know. Discover what the customer needs and
>> then find a way to help them get it. All that stuff about getting people to do
>> things that they wouldn't normally do, that's manipulation not marketing.
Robert Epstein:
>and yet that's what's being done with most products these days. call it
>what you like, it is convincing people to buy something they either
>don't at all need, or would otherwise never bother buying, separating
>the customer from his below-the-cost-of-living 60-hour-a-week salary.
>Gone are the days when it was really about who's got the best pair of
>shoes. I mean, the various brands of shoes are still out there, but
>they don't even bother advertising. Since that's something people
>actually need, they will come looking for it. But when you see 87
>different cars that are essentially similar being associated with
>various scenic wildernesses, assorted blondes [no offense to those of
>blonde persuasion -- I'm married to one of Norwegian heritage] and
>breaking the speed limit by a guy with a $500 sweater and $300 haircut,
>what do you think it's really about?
Easy: It's never in the interest of the manufacturer to get the
customer to buy the best product. It's all about getting the customer
to buy *your* product. Whether it's crap or not...
bonfils
>bonfils wrote:
Didn't know the banjo could be used in the service of non-evil...
Pete Watters
> On the day of our lord Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:43:56 +0100, the most
> honourable Kirsten Bayes <kir...@removeplz.bayes.org.uk>
> expostulated:
>
> >bonfils wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> When you learn marketing, aren't you supposed to *start* with "cynical
> >> and world weary"?
> >> You do start every class by chanting "Oh Lord of Darkness...", don't
> >> you?
> >>
> >> .... or am I just *so seventies?
> >>
> >
> >Heh, well, I'd see it as a generic set of skills and knowledge. You can
> >wield it in the service of the evil corporations, or use it to promote a
> >charity, or indeed use the knowledge to challenge the evil corporations.
> >
> >It's like playing the banjo, really.
>
> Didn't know the banjo could be used in the service of non-evil...
"Yes, Lothar the Warrior, we will give you the Clawhammer Banjo of
Cripple Creek that you may smite your enemies, but only if you vow to
use it for good, in just and noble cause, and not to aid the hordes of
Bubbas who rabble across the land, fornicating with swine and voting
Republican."
Pete (naw, it just doesn't sound right...)
--
Don't we all test our 9-volt batteries with our tongues? -- Dale Tilson
Wilson
"bonfils" <k...@bonfils.your.underwear.com> wrote ...
>
> >Wilson wrote:
> >> Marketing's not so bad you know. Discover what the customer needs and
> >> then find a way to help them get it. All that stuff about getting people to do
> >> things that they wouldn't normally do, that's manipulation not marketing.
>
> Robert Epstein:
> >and yet that's what's being done with most products these days. call it
> >what you like, it is convincing people to buy something they either
> >don't at all need, or would otherwise never bother buying, separating
> >the customer from his below-the-cost-of-living 60-hour-a-week salary.
> >Gone are the days when it was really about who's got the best pair of
> >shoes. I mean, the various brands of shoes are still out there, but
> >they don't even bother advertising. Since that's something people
> >actually need, they will come looking for it. But when you see 87
> >different cars that are essentially similar being associated with
> >various scenic wildernesses, assorted blondes [no offense to those of
> >blonde persuasion -- I'm married to one of Norwegian heritage] and
> >breaking the speed limit by a guy with a $500 sweater and $300 haircut,
> >what do you think it's really about?
>
> Easy: It's never in the interest of the manufacturer to get the
> customer to buy the best product. It's all about getting the customer
> to buy *your* product. Whether it's crap or not...
That's short-term thinking. I amaze my customers when I tell them that I advise
them to shop around before they buy. I tell them to buy whatever they think will
meet their needs the best, even if it isn't what I have.
Of course, it helps that I have the best.
Wilson
"Pete Watters" <ab...@cox.net> wrote ...
Because most Bubbas vote Democrat?
(And where are the sheep who are involved here ...)
dt
> On the day of our lord Sat, 11 Sep 2004 08:43:56 +0100, the most
> honourable Kirsten Bayes <kir...@removeplz.bayes.org.uk>
> expostulated:
>
>
>>bonfils wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>When you learn marketing, aren't you supposed to *start* with "cynical
>>>and world weary"?
>>>You do start every class by chanting "Oh Lord of Darkness...", don't
>>>you?
>>>
>>>.... or am I just *so seventies?
>>>
>>
>>Heh, well, I'd see it as a generic set of skills and knowledge. You can
>>wield it in the service of the evil corporations, or use it to promote a
>>charity, or indeed use the knowledge to challenge the evil corporations.
>>
>>It's like playing the banjo, really.
>
>
> Didn't know the banjo could be used in the service of non-evil...
Only by Bela Fleck.
dt
>
>
>
>> "Bob"? "BOB"??? You can't fool us; we *know* who you are!
>>
>> How's the weather been? Y'all gettin' any of Sandy's hurricane
>> leftovers?
>>
>> DT
>>
> Howed u no Dale?
A little hellbirdtoo told me. ;-)
> We got two days of rain and I only had two screwed up a/c s to repair
> from the power surges.
> The freeway wreaks were continous. Many died (3 0r 4) Pretty typical for
> a weekday and traffdic was hell (hardly worse then usual).
>
> I like a good rain and that was all we had. Before it came I cleared the
> sticks outta the rain garden I built but it turned out I never got a
> chance to go outside to enjoy it.
>
> I am ready for action in the terrist battle and have resprung the trusty
> daisey gun.
>
> BEWARE!
>
> bb
The obvious weapon of choice, for one of your monogram! Might want to
give it a coupla drops of 3-in-1, looks like another monsoon headed your
way, monsewer.
Robert Epstein
bonfils wrote:
>>Wilson wrote:
>>
>>>Marketing's not so bad you know. Discover what the customer needs and
>>>then find a way to help them get it. All that stuff about getting people to do
>>>things that they wouldn't normally do, that's manipulation not marketing.
>>
>
> Robert Epstein:
>
>>and yet that's what's being done with most products these days. call it
>>what you like, it is convincing people to buy something they either
>>don't at all need, or would otherwise never bother buying, separating
>>the customer from his below-the-cost-of-living 60-hour-a-week salary.
>>Gone are the days when it was really about who's got the best pair of
>>shoes. I mean, the various brands of shoes are still out there, but
>>they don't even bother advertising. Since that's something people
>>actually need, they will come looking for it. But when you see 87
>>different cars that are essentially similar being associated with
>>various scenic wildernesses, assorted blondes [no offense to those of
>>blonde persuasion -- I'm married to one of Norwegian heritage] and
>>breaking the speed limit by a guy with a $500 sweater and $300 haircut,
>>what do you think it's really about?
>
>
> Easy: It's never in the interest of the manufacturer to get the
> customer to buy the best product. It's all about getting the customer
> to buy *your* product. Whether it's crap or not...
and of course you get the "fantasy" for free!
robert
Robert Epstein
well I think that's beautiful, and I'd go see the movie too.
robert
Robert Epstein
and what is it exactly that you sell.........???
robert
Kirsten Bayes
>
>
> "Yes, Lothar the Warrior, we will give you the Clawhammer Banjo of
> Cripple Creek that you may smite your enemies, but only if you vow to
> use it for good, in just and noble cause, and not to aid the hordes of
> Bubbas who rabble across the land, fornicating with swine and voting
> Republican."
>
> Pete (naw, it just doesn't sound right...)
>
Eww, voting Republican? That's disgusting.
Beth
> "leebert" <REPLA...@yahoo.com> wrote ...
>
>>...yesterday as a computer teacher for a small K-12 school. 4 hours a day of
>>teaching, 4 hours a day of tech maint, planning and development, etc. Lots
>>of triage up front though, some old PII systems, etc. I still don't know
>>where all their servers are. Backups?
>>
>>The 6th graders are like herding cats and too full of energy. A day doesn't
>>go by when someone doesn't fall out of their chair. "Are you OK? Is there
>>anything bruised besides your ego?" They're a lot of fun. I'm teaching them
>>computer lit, which comes down to word processing & powerpoint survival
>>skills. A great bunch, today I got them doing hot-key combinations.... "Undo
>>& Redo, Ctrl+Z and Ctrl+Y, will save you from disaster." Today's assignment
>>was to type "One bright morning at midnight..."
>>
>>The Computer Science kids were stunned when I said "programming." Actually
>>they're going to design and write a multi-user game of some kind, starting
>>first with a textual game, maybe progressing to automata combat. In the
>>process they'll learn programming, analysis and design, object patterns,
>>etc.
>>
>>The Graphics/Animation kids are going to go for an interesting ride, they'll
>>get to play with Photoshop & Maya 3D, maybe Flash or some open source
>>equivalent.
>>
>>The Video Tech class is going to be as much about communications as video.
>>Next session, they're going to run their own news station, with bi-weekly
>>production cycles.
>>
>>I'm in big trouble. I have to figure out how to get ahead on my lesson plans
>>while I figure out what the heck it is I'm going to teach them!
>
>
>
> It sounds awe some (and then some ).
>
>
It sounds way more advanced than what they teach
my kid; typing, typing and more typing.
Can I get copies of you lecture notes and book
lists? Including the teacher/student ones.
Please?!
--
Beth
(remove the, uh, "knot" to send me e-mail !-)
Beth
> "Wilson" <puddinhe...@att.not> wrote
>
>
>>It sounds awe some (and then some ).
>
>
> Today was a test. A teacher's notebook had it's network config screwed up.
> Wasted my planning period. Never again.
>
> /leebert
>
>
>
>
Welcome to the world of tech support - interrupt
driven, constant priority changing, insanity causing.
daryl
...
>
>nobody wrote:
>
>> "Wilson" <puddinhe...@att.not> wrote
>>
>>
>>>It sounds awe some (and then some ).
>>
>>
>> Today was a test. A teacher's notebook had it's network config screwed up.
>> Wasted my planning period. Never again.
>>
>
>driven, constant priority changing, insanity causing.
May all you applications be stable, all your hardware
reliable, and all your customers gullible.
--
Daryl
Wilson
"Robert Epstein" <r.ep...@verizon.net> wrote ...
The actual product makes no difference to the point I was trying to
make.
I spent 11 years in the car business (only two of them in sales) before I
decided to try the joys of self-employment. During those 11 years I
came to some strong conclusions about how to do business, mostly by
watching the mistakes my boss was making. What I found was that for
the most part, people today are too savvy to be manipulated and they
catch on pretty quickly. The most important thing is to have what people
actually need (duh! ;-) rather than try to make them want what you have.
If you don't at least have that going on, quit now and find something
better.
The second thing is to treat people with as much respect as you can.
Dealing with large numbers of people every day, sometimes that part's not
so easy.
By respect I mean more than just being nice. Listen to what they actually
say. Don't ever attempt to push them in one direction or another. Just
give them the information that they need, and trust that they will make the
best decision for themselves.
The third thing is to 'under promise' and 'over deliver'. Again, not so easy
sometimes.
That's it, mostly. Success is guaranteed :-)
Robert Epstein
well, appreciate the rundown which makes sense. I'm still curious about
what your current product is, but since I don't talk about my work here,
I can hardly expect you to. Bad nettiquette for me to even ask, but my
curiosity got the better of me.
Robert
Wilson
No problem. I'm not into self promotion here. Now THAT would be gauche.
Robert Epstein
well, shit, just saying what your product is isn't self-promotion.
that's just conversation. but that's a side point. no, no, don't say
anything -- I don't want to know! : )
robert
Luke Clossey
If you actually did want to know, you can find out easily enough in this brave
new world of information availability. Google "wilson product" and you get...
first URL... tennis stuff. And on that page there's even an option for
"The Right Product for You." Welcome to 2002. :)
Luke
dt
;-)
Don't think you were around when Wilson first showed up. I complimented
him on his work in that Tom Hanks movie. I mean, Wilson was like the
second-best-developed character in the movie! And his acting! The
range of emotion! Well, it just brought tears to my eyes....
Of course, "our" Wilson claims he's not "that" Wilson. Maybe he's just
being modest.
Captain Spaulding
http://www.thehungersite.com/
Wilson
"dt" <dte...@hotmail.com> wrote ...
I'm certainly no actor. Although I have though it might be fun to try.
(Do you think the ball was paid scale?)
dt
Daryl
into public view via article <cj1vlg$p8b$2...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>:
Ooh, he spikes one hard!
--
Daryl .... to email me add dawt cee eh?
"Remember, with practice, you, too, can be a showoff."
--Pete Watters
Robert Epstein
yeah, well wilson is the name of a major tennis product company; are you
saying wilson is the wilson of wilson tennis stuff? could just be a
coincidence?
I mean, the guy who won the academy award for best documentary a few
years back is named Robert Epstein, but he's not me. if you googled
Robert Epstein film you'd get him but how would you know it's not me?
you see what I mean?
robert
Luke Clossey
You mean there's two Wilsons? Like clones? That wascally Wilson! :)
> I mean, the guy who won the academy award for best documentary a few
> years back is named Robert Epstein, but he's not me. if you googled
> Robert Epstein film you'd get him but how would you know it's not me?
> you see what I mean?
I think I see what you mean--I had no idea you were a director, but I googled
you and sure enough! _The Celluloid Closet_ (1995). Not to be hypercritical,
but I thought the logic was a bit circular: All the film characters that we can
tell are gay (usually we can tell this because they're hugely flaming) were
depicted to be hugely flaming. The situation is much rosier if you assume that
anyone not obviously hetero (like all the extras) are faggahs who just happen to
be depicted "normally". There no reason for such an assumption, but it makes
life more interesting. Though you also get slapped more often. :)
Luke :)
P.S. :)
Wilson
"Luke Clossey" <clo...@sfu.canuckistan.invalid> wrote ...
>
> Robert Epstein <r.ep...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> yeah, well wilson is the name of a major tennis product company; are you
>> saying wilson is the wilson of wilson tennis stuff? could just be a
>> coincidence?
>
> You mean there's two Wilsons? Like clones? That wascally Wilson! :)
>
>> I mean, the guy who won the academy award for best documentary a few
>> years back is named Robert Epstein, but he's not me. if you googled
>> Robert Epstein film you'd get him but how would you know it's not me?
>> you see what I mean?
>
> I think I see what you mean--I had no idea you were a director, but I googled
> you and sure enough! _The Celluloid Closet_ (1995). Not to be hypercritical,
> but I thought the logic was a bit circular: All the film characters that we can
> tell are gay (usually we can tell this because they're hugely flaming) were
> depicted to be hugely flaming. The situation is much rosier if you assume that
> anyone not obviously hetero (like all the extras) are faggahs who just happen to
> be depicted "normally". There no reason for such an assumption, but it makes
> life more interesting. Though you also get slapped more often. :)
>
> Luke :)
>
> P.S. :)
Are you saying that "faggahs" is generally considered to be an
acceptable way to refer to people of the homosexual persuasion?
(Just checking, as I do *not* like getting slapped). :)
P.S. Someday maybe I'll tell everyone about the time I walked
into a gay bar by accident when I was bar-hopping with a friend
of mine. While something seemed a bit out of place, we were
there for two whole hours before we figured it out! Just call
me dense.
dt
I used to play volleyball with two Wilsons. It was impossible to tell
them apart. At least, until one of them got roughed-up a little....
>>I mean, the guy who won the academy award for best documentary a few
>>years back is named Robert Epstein, but he's not me. if you googled
>>Robert Epstein film you'd get him but how would you know it's not me?
>>you see what I mean?
How do we know he's not you anyway, just because you say he's not? ;-)
> I think I see what you mean--I had no idea you were a director, but I googled
> you and sure enough! _The Celluloid Closet_ (1995). Not to be hypercritical,
> but I thought the logic was a bit circular: All the film characters that we can
> tell are gay (usually we can tell this because they're hugely flaming) were
> depicted to be hugely flaming. The situation is much rosier if you assume that
> anyone not obviously hetero (like all the extras) are faggahs who just happen to
> be depicted "normally". There no reason for such an assumption, but it makes
> life more interesting. Though you also get slapped more often. :)
>
> Luke :)
>
> P.S. :)
We played the aforementioned volleyball in a city park, and would let
just about anybody join in. There was a guy named Mike who joined
us--about 6'2, well-muscled, dark wavy hair down to his shoulders. For
about a month, all the women were just gaga over this guy, until the
night he showed up wearing a tank top that said, "How *dare* you assume
I'm heterosexual!". That kinda shut 'em up. ;-)
Ned Ludd
"Wilson" <puddinhe...@att.not> wrote in message
news:Wog7d.653249$Gx4.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> P.S. Someday maybe I'll tell everyone about the time I walked
> into a gay bar by accident when I was bar-hopping with a friend
> of mine. While something seemed a bit out of place, we were
> there for two whole hours before we figured it out! Just call
> me dense.
>
Understandable. I was once at a bar in Spring Green, late at
night, drinking and shooting pool with a friend, and another guy
came in and I shot pool with him for over a hour, talking away,
having a great old time.
Next morning at my friend's house I learned the guy was deaf.
Ned
Daryl
I worked with a woman for months -- at my first full
time job -- before I discovered she was deaf. I had
to get her attention one day when her back was turned
and I got louder and louder until I saw my boss
grinning and asked him why. "She's deaf" he said.
I thought he was kidding until he explained that she
reads lips and proceeded to talk with her without
making a sound himself. It was very cool to have met
such a skilled lip reader.
Stavros of Pureshitland
"dt" <dte...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cjk6ng$756$1...@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu...
they turns on some women. They call the women who hang around the guy bars
here "Fruit Flies"
Luke Clossey
> "Luke Clossey" <clo...@sfu.canuckistan.invalid> wrote ...
>>
>> Robert Epstein <r.ep...@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>>> yeah, well wilson is the name of a major tennis product company; are you
>>> saying wilson is the wilson of wilson tennis stuff? could just be a
>>> coincidence?
>>
>> You mean there's two Wilsons? Like clones? That wascally Wilson! :)
>>
>>> I mean, the guy who won the academy award for best documentary a few
>>> years back is named Robert Epstein, but he's not me. if you googled
>>> Robert Epstein film you'd get him but how would you know it's not me?
>>> you see what I mean?
>>
>> I think I see what you mean--I had no idea you were a director, but I googled
>> you and sure enough! _The Celluloid Closet_ (1995). Not to be hypercritical,
>> but I thought the logic was a bit circular: All the film characters that we can
>> tell are gay (usually we can tell this because they're hugely flaming) were
>> depicted to be hugely flaming. The situation is much rosier if you assume that
>> anyone not obviously hetero (like all the extras) are faggahs who just happen to
>> be depicted "normally". There no reason for such an assumption, but it makes
>> life more interesting. Though you also get slapped more often. :)
> Are you saying that "faggahs" is generally considered to be an
> acceptable way to refer to people of the homosexual persuasion?
Nope, I'm not saying that. It's the word I usually use, so I wrote it without
thinking. Not sure if I would have written something else if I had had the
brain on. I don't think there is a generally acceptable way to refer to Those
People. In Scouse (Liverpool dialect) to mean "homosexual person who wears
glasses" one says "fochin' foureyed faggah", which I just love, what with the
alliteration and the triple trochee meter. I also like "faggot" on the grounds
that frequent use in normal contexts might make it less nasty. But I don't like
the only-gays-can-say-faggot thing, and I might feel differently if any of my
handful of latenight hatecrime incidents involved the word. "Gay" recalls
coming-out trauma in ways other words don't. "Gayguy" works pretty well. I've
come across a number of guys who find "homosexual" offensive (too clinical, like
it's a disease).
In Italian you say "finocchio" [literally 'fennel'] or flick your earlobe. So
you could probably say "fennel" without offending anyone. And without anyone
understanding you.
> P.S. Someday maybe I'll tell everyone about the time I walked
> into a gay bar by accident when I was bar-hopping with a friend
> of mine. While something seemed a bit out of place, we were
> there for two whole hours before we figured it out! Just call
> me dense.
Dense! I hope you had fun and had a great giggle afterwards. :)
Luke
Luke Clossey
Hee, hee. Even funnier if it had been hand written. :)
Luke (in some circles the tank top would have been a giveaway anyway)
Daryl
Latenight hatecrime incidents happen to straight guys
too. I know one who was hospitalized by a gang that
attacked him and his friend as they simply took a
walk together, calling them "fags" and such. They
probably became a target because my friend fits the
stereotype visually and was walking on the beach with
a boyfriend (out for a toke in fact).
Until you mentioned it, I wouldn't have thought of
associations with coming-out trauma being a factor.
It's such a minefield! Most of the queers I know or
have known generally don't mind being called just
about anything in a simple "recognizing your groovy
gay self" way. (TS's not included) Now I have to
worry which word to use on who. Thanks a lot, Luke.
:)
Luke Clossey
> Luke Clossey (clo...@sfu.canuckistan.invalid), an otherwise honourable person,
> allowed some thoughts to escape into public view via article
> <cjl332$fs3$1...@morgoth.sfu.ca>:
>>Nope, I'm not saying that. It's the word I usually use, so I wrote it without
>>thinking. Not sure if I would have written something else if I had had the
>>brain on. I don't think there is a generally acceptable way to refer to Those
>>People. In Scouse (Liverpool dialect) to mean "homosexual person who wears
>>glasses" one says "fochin' foureyed faggah", which I just love, what with the
>>alliteration and the triple trochee meter. I also like "faggot" on the grounds
>>that frequent use in normal contexts might make it less nasty. But I don't like
>>the only-gays-can-say-faggot thing, and I might feel differently if any of my
>>handful of latenight hatecrime incidents involved the word. "Gay" recalls
>>coming-out trauma in ways other words don't. "Gayguy" works pretty well. I've
>>come across a number of guys who find "homosexual" offensive (too clinical, like
>>it's a disease).
>>
>>In Italian you say "finocchio" [literally 'fennel'] or flick your earlobe. So
>>you could probably say "fennel" without offending anyone. And without anyone
>>understanding you.
> Latenight hatecrime incidents happen to straight guys
> too. I know one who was hospitalized by a gang that
> attacked him and his friend as they simply took a
> walk together, calling them "fags" and such. They
> probably became a target because my friend fits the
> stereotype visually and was walking on the beach with
> a boyfriend (out for a toke in fact).
Ugh, he has to deal with the crap without getting the simple joys of gaity in
return, worst of both worlds. Luckily I've never had worse than words and
intimidation. I suspect they feel sorry for me because I'm so luckless in love.
Ha.
> Until you mentioned it, I wouldn't have thought of
> associations with coming-out trauma being a factor.
> It's such a minefield! Most of the queers I know or
> have known generally don't mind being called just
> about anything in a simple "recognizing your groovy
> gay self" way. (TS's not included) Now I have to
> worry which word to use on who. Thanks a lot, Luke.
Which word to use on WHOM. (Not even the pronouns are safe!) :)
Oh, I had forgotten about 'queer', that works pretty well generally. Well, I
take comfort in the principle that anyone who is offended by speech spoken
without intent to offend deserves to be offended.
Luke
KittyP
"Robert Epstein" <r.ep...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:415CEB1F...@verizon.net...
I googled myself and got ten hits about me that I would just as soon forget.
Kitty
Wilson
"Luke Clossey" <clo...@sfu.canuckistan.invalid> wrote ...
>
>
>> P.S. Someday maybe I'll tell everyone about the time I walked
>> into a gay bar by accident when I was bar-hopping with a friend
>> of mine. While something seemed a bit out of place, we were
>> there for two whole hours before we figured it out! Just call
>> me dense.
>
> Dense! I hope you had fun and had a great giggle afterwards. :)
Oh yeah. We actually stayed for a little while, just to check out
the scene. It started getting a little weird after midnight, so we
left.
Sanford Manley
> I googled myself and got ten hits about me that I would just as soon
> forget.
> Kitty
You ain't been googled until I google ya.
--
Sanford M. Manley
Don't give me no canuck flimflam or logic or
sumpin' dreamt up by maple syrup slurpin'
lumberjacks! - Messer Xin
I am The Ansaman! http://www.ansaman.com
Angry Fetus Comics!! http://www.ansaman.com/angryfetuslatest.html
KittyP
"Sanford Manley" <manl...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:yeD7d.14800$yp....@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
> KittyP said:
>
> > I googled myself and got ten hits about me that I would just as soon
> > forget.
> > Kitty
>
> You ain't been googled until I google ya.
promises promises
snort
Sanford Manley
> "Sanford Manley" <manl...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:yeD7d.14800$yp....@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
>> KittyP said:
>>
>>> I googled myself and got ten hits about me that I would just as soon
>>> forget.
>>> Kitty
>>
>> You ain't been googled until I google ya.
>
> promises promises
> snort
So you will take an extended Florida vacation when
Mount Saint Helens covers your area in 50 feet of ash?
--
Sanford M. Manley
I'll stop suffering when they pry the
expectations from my cold, dead, brain.
- Sanford M. Manley
Robert Epstein
uh....also then....well....I guess I'm not me.......
anyway I'm not the gay Robert Epstein -- not that there's anything wrong
with that. the documentary that won Robert Epstein the academy award
was The Times of Harvey Milk - a truly exceptional piece of work.
> P.S. :)
: )
Robert Epstein
yeah right. that's what they all say.
when I was bar-hopping with a friend
> of mine. While something seemed a bit out of place, we were
> there for two whole hours before we figured it out! Just call
> me dense.
is that what they call it now? : )
robert
Daryl
allowed some thoughts to escape into public view via article
Good lord I didn't think my language nazi karma
would come back that fast...
>Oh, I had forgotten about 'queer', that works pretty well generally. Well, I
>take comfort in the principle that anyone who is offended by speech spoken
>without intent to offend deserves to be offended.
Heh, that should be the golden rule of political
incorrectness.
Robert Epstein
yah it's hord being a public figure. actually an old girlfriend of mine
published the story of the first time we made love in an actual
goddamned book. it's also on the internet if anyone wants to bother
finding it. someone I know came over to me in a group of people and
said "hey I read about you and your early lovemaking adventures on the
inernet."
robert
dt
And *that* deserves to be a sig line!
DT
"Anyone who is offended by speech spoken without intent to offend
deserves to be offended."-Luke Clossey
KittyP
> KittyP said:
> > "Sanford Manley" <manl...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> > news:yeD7d.14800$yp....@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
> >> KittyP said:
> >>
> >>> I googled myself and got ten hits about me that I would just as soon
> >>> forget.
> >>> Kitty
> >>
> >> You ain't been googled until I google ya.
> >
> > promises promises
> > snort
>
> So you will take an extended Florida vacation when
> Mount Saint Helens covers your area in 50 feet of ash?
Right after hurricane season.
Kitty
KittyP
....and it will probably all never ever go away. It's like a landfill full
of Pampers.
Kirsten Bayes
>
> yah it's hord being a public figure. actually an old girlfriend of mine
> published the story of the first time we made love in an actual goddamned
> book. it's also on the internet if anyone wants to bother finding it.
> someone I know came over to me in a group of people and said "hey I read
> about you and your early lovemaking adventures on the inernet."
>
> robert
>
Hey, you're *that* Robert Epstein. I am always amazed that you can combine
editing Psychology Today with a career in Hollywood, your job as an attorney
and life as a love god.
Almost every reference to "Kirsten Bayes" on the web refers to me, apart
from somebody with the same name winning money at a Winnipeg radio station
(though that might have been me performing the old Winnipeg switcheroo).
Best wishes
Kirsten
bonfils
honourable "Kirsten Bayes" <kir...@removeplz.bayes.org.uk>
expostulated:
Yeah, well - but I've been meaning to ask you about Bayesian filters.
--
bonfils
http://kim.bonfils.com
"And let's face it: when a description of your life sounds like the name of a Bonfils track you're in deep, deep trouble."
- Kirsten Bayes, a.b.s.f.g.
Robert Epstein
no, none of it will ever go away; but luckily eventually it will all
fade away.....
...and then we'll wish it were back, just to remind us of ourselves.....
robert
Robert Epstein
Kirsten Bayes wrote:
> "Robert Epstein" <r.ep...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:415F780A...@verizon.net...
>
>>yah it's hord being a public figure. actually an old girlfriend of mine
>>published the story of the first time we made love in an actual goddamned
>>book. it's also on the internet if anyone wants to bother finding it.
>>someone I know came over to me in a group of people and said "hey I read
>>about you and your early lovemaking adventures on the inernet."
>>
>>robert
>>
>
>
> Hey, you're *that* Robert Epstein. I am always amazed that you can combine
> editing Psychology Today with a career in Hollywood, your job as an attorney
> and life as a love god.
I'm awful busy, it's true. I enjoy the "love god" thing the most; but
it doesn't pay as well as editing the magazine and directing academy
award winning films.
robert
dt
Now, see, that's how rumors get started! "Did you know that the first
time the famous Robert Epstein made love, it was in a landfill full of
Pampers?"
DT
(Sorry, Robert, I just couldn't resist...)
http://www.thehungersite.com/
KittyP
That was a downright pissy comment.
snickering
Robert Epstein
well at least I haven't yet been sighted *wearing* pampers.
that will come, I know, that will come.....
robert