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Julian's missed topic
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Tang Huyen
Aug 16, 2016, 11:13:27 AM8/16/16
to
Up to the end of 2014, Julian dear used to post
"Why 2015 might well be mankind's happiest new
year", but has not been doing so since. In such
posts, he quoted Steven Pinker of Harvard about
the decrease in world violence. There has been
a new article about the same author at the liberal
site Vox, and it repeats the latter's optimism.
<http://www.vox.com/2016/8/16/12486586/2016-worst-year-ever-violence-trump-terrorism>
<<It certainly is a danger. Pessimism can be a
self-fulfilling prophecy. While we have to be
realistic about changes both up and down in rates
of violence, we have to remind ourselves that
violence is a problem we can deal with, that we
have dealt with, and what’s important is to look at
it realistically. To keep track of when it goes up,
when it goes down, and what causes it to go up
and go down and do more of what causes it to go
down. We know over the last couple of years that
it has gone down, so we should figure out what
we did to achieve that and do more of it.>>
<<Brexit and Trump — these are not good
developments. I don’t think Brexit is going to lead
to another war. I would say it’s not good news. But
it's too early to tell.
I do think that politicians, especially on the left,
would be unwise to ignore changes in violence. It's
important not to panic. But there has been a small
increase in the US in the last one and a half years,
and it would be foolish for politicians to just hand
that issue over to the right and pretend it doesn't
exist.>>
Tang Huyen
"Why 2015 might well be mankind's happiest new
year", but has not been doing so since. In such
posts, he quoted Steven Pinker of Harvard about
the decrease in world violence. There has been
a new article about the same author at the liberal
site Vox, and it repeats the latter's optimism.
<http://www.vox.com/2016/8/16/12486586/2016-worst-year-ever-violence-trump-terrorism>
<<It certainly is a danger. Pessimism can be a
self-fulfilling prophecy. While we have to be
realistic about changes both up and down in rates
of violence, we have to remind ourselves that
violence is a problem we can deal with, that we
have dealt with, and what’s important is to look at
it realistically. To keep track of when it goes up,
when it goes down, and what causes it to go up
and go down and do more of what causes it to go
down. We know over the last couple of years that
it has gone down, so we should figure out what
we did to achieve that and do more of it.>>
<<Brexit and Trump — these are not good
developments. I don’t think Brexit is going to lead
to another war. I would say it’s not good news. But
it's too early to tell.
I do think that politicians, especially on the left,
would be unwise to ignore changes in violence. It's
important not to panic. But there has been a small
increase in the US in the last one and a half years,
and it would be foolish for politicians to just hand
that issue over to the right and pretend it doesn't
exist.>>
Tang Huyen
Julian
Aug 18, 2016, 5:11:19 AM8/18/16
to
from poverty, malnutrition, literacy to fatalities of war, the risk of
dying in a natural disaster, the risk of being subjected to a
dictatorship – and everything is improving. And people have a hard time
believing that because they are hearing all of these other messages and
often people prefer those anecdotes and shocking stories to actual data’
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/08/why-cant-we-see-that-were-living-in-a-golden-age/
Tang Huyen
Sep 10, 2016, 10:28:08 AM9/10/16
to
On 8/18/2016 2:11 AM, Julian wrote:
> ‘What I’ve done is look at long-term data and statistics – everything
> from poverty, malnutrition, literacy to fatalities of war, the risk of
> dying in a natural disaster, the risk of being subjected to a
> dictatorship – and everything is improving. And people have a hard time
> believing that because they are hearing all of these other messages and
> often people prefer those anecdotes and shocking stories to actual data’
>
> http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/08/why-cant-we-see-that-were-living-in-a-golden-age/
A new article, which will make my sweet and
> ‘What I’ve done is look at long-term data and statistics – everything
> from poverty, malnutrition, literacy to fatalities of war, the risk of
> dying in a natural disaster, the risk of being subjected to a
> dictatorship – and everything is improving. And people have a hard time
> believing that because they are hearing all of these other messages and
> often people prefer those anecdotes and shocking stories to actual data’
>
> http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/08/why-cant-we-see-that-were-living-in-a-golden-age/
loving son Julian happy:
"You may think the world is falling apart.
Steven Pinker is here to tell you it isn't"
by Julia Belluz.
<http://www.vox.com/2016/8/16/12486586/2016-worst-year-ever-violence-trump-terrorism>
May the world keep getting better! (I know,
wishing won't make it happen, but it doesn't
hurt to wish).
Tang Huyen
Message has been deleted
Julian
Sep 10, 2016, 11:31:06 AM9/10/16
to
Tang Huyen
Sep 10, 2016, 11:59:51 AM9/10/16
to
On 9/10/2016 7:38 AM, Julian wrote:
> Indeed it does rhyme with my mindset.
>
> I have read it before and did intend to post it here but
> must have been distracted or forgot and the moment passed.
Pinker is repetitive, and simply because his
cause is so specific (iow, narrow-minded). If he
was to engage other topics, his optimism may
well get broached.
I know that you don't believe it, but to me the
world is running out of resources and is getting
done in by population explosion, at an
exponentially increasing rate, in a
self-reinforcing circle. This is a spectacular
case of unintended consequences (just think
of Marx and the Communists): the very smart
people who invented and still invent modern
science, technology and medicine are sure
that they are helping the world, but in the
process the world is getting swamped by
overutilisation, driven mostly by the exploding
population. They start hares that gain
functional independence and together are
driving the world off the cliff, like lemmings
jumping off the cliff together, so to speak
whilst holding hands, in a folie à deux
multiplied many times over. Intelligence,
collective or not, feeds off itself and can kill
its hosts. Skills can be good servants and bad
masters (which is a familiar phenomenon in
mental culture). Convergent evolution can go
both ways, iow be good or bad, for its movers
and shakers and everybody else (the innocent
bystanders). Humanity can well get swept up
in self-caused (albeit involuntary) mass
die-off, something that plagues and natural
disasters can't pull off. MAD (mutual assured
destruction) by nuclear wars is one possibility,
but only one, even if spectacular. Other
possibilities can be of the covert, creeping
type, all the more insidious for being so.
Such foreboding seems to escape Pinker. It is
not in his mindset, as collective cheerleader.
But it is a view that needs a promoter, who
can get famous by it, however well
intentioned he can be. (The road to hell ...)
Tang Huyen
> Indeed it does rhyme with my mindset.
>
> I have read it before and did intend to post it here but
> must have been distracted or forgot and the moment passed.
Pinker is repetitive, and simply because his
cause is so specific (iow, narrow-minded). If he
was to engage other topics, his optimism may
well get broached.
I know that you don't believe it, but to me the
world is running out of resources and is getting
done in by population explosion, at an
exponentially increasing rate, in a
self-reinforcing circle. This is a spectacular
case of unintended consequences (just think
of Marx and the Communists): the very smart
people who invented and still invent modern
science, technology and medicine are sure
that they are helping the world, but in the
process the world is getting swamped by
overutilisation, driven mostly by the exploding
population. They start hares that gain
functional independence and together are
driving the world off the cliff, like lemmings
jumping off the cliff together, so to speak
whilst holding hands, in a folie à deux
multiplied many times over. Intelligence,
collective or not, feeds off itself and can kill
its hosts. Skills can be good servants and bad
masters (which is a familiar phenomenon in
mental culture). Convergent evolution can go
both ways, iow be good or bad, for its movers
and shakers and everybody else (the innocent
bystanders). Humanity can well get swept up
in self-caused (albeit involuntary) mass
die-off, something that plagues and natural
disasters can't pull off. MAD (mutual assured
destruction) by nuclear wars is one possibility,
but only one, even if spectacular. Other
possibilities can be of the covert, creeping
type, all the more insidious for being so.
Such foreboding seems to escape Pinker. It is
not in his mindset, as collective cheerleader.
But it is a view that needs a promoter, who
can get famous by it, however well
intentioned he can be. (The road to hell ...)
Tang Huyen
Julian
Sep 10, 2016, 12:07:05 PM9/10/16
to
the end of the 19th century when experts predicted
that the streets would soon be 10 feet deep in horse shit
it the growth of horse driven vehicles continued to grow
at the current rate.
It never occurred to them that someone would invent
motorised vehicles and instead of horse shit being
a nuisance, a threat even, it would be a rarity much
to the concern of urban gardeners.
Julian
Sep 10, 2016, 12:47:04 PM9/10/16
to
throughout the ages united with one thing in common...
a lousy strike rate. *
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/24518/24518-h/dvi.html#prophecies
(I dread to think of the condition of mankind had all those
EOTWM's been taken seriously!)
Even further the solution of the population problem already exits...
I'm not talking just about contraception, abortion, government dictats
about one child being permissible, famines or natural disasters.
The Muslims are religiously obliged to convert or wipe out all Kafir
and I expect at least a billion or two intransigents not convert and
thus be annihilated relieving substantial population pressure.
Then when all Kafir are eliminated further population growth will be
held in check by the Sunni and Shia trying to wipe each other of the
face of earth.
All the above, in my opinion, kick the population fears into the longest
of the long grass... plenty of time for humanity to come
up with other solutions.
* Insert Peter crying wolf argument here. :)
Kitty P
Sep 11, 2016, 10:29:28 AM9/11/16
to
"Julian" wrote in message news:nr1de5$lod$1...@dont-email.me...
I totally agree with Julian on the concept that the world is getting
etter - especially in regard to violence, genocide, and world hunger.
Although it's relative since people still suffer. We listen to news that
feeds to the same human love of watching the aftermath of car wrecks.
Politicians spend their time trying to scare the hell out of everyone to get
elected. But when it comes to the violence that kill humans - it is for a
fact less violent than the not so distant past. But of course humans, being
human, will probably screw it up now and then - but the trend appears to be
pretty solid.
But Julian, your view of what will happen in the Muslim world is strangely
familiar since we've been hearing a lot the same from white supremacist on
the topic in the U.S. right now. It doesn't have feet. Mostly because a few
billion Muslims probably aren't going to just sit there and let their
beliefs and children die to other Muslims.
Population will probably be stabilizing as birth rates continue to dip below
zero population growth in developed countries. The answer being to rise up
countries that aren't developed if we want population growth stabilized.
Wars really aren't necessary. It's the same as the kind of the doom and
gloom about violence. Population is changing as well.
Julian
Sep 11, 2016, 10:42:25 AM9/11/16
to
that the Shia will preemptively strike where possible to wipe out the
Sunni and vice versa.
Also don't forget that death in such circumstances is not such a big
deal to them and many are proud to sacrifice their children who they
believe will, finally, get laid by 72 virgins.
Even if we, non-mulisms of all colour, ethnicity, nationality etc.
were our of the game the Sunni/Shia war would, if anything, escalate
since we were no longer a distraction from their main event.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia%E2%80%93Sunni_relations#Post-1980
Julian
Sep 11, 2016, 10:48:15 AM9/11/16
to
On 11/09/2016 16:29, Kitty P wrote:
>
>
>
>
The Buddha's first sermon after his Enlightenment centered on the Four
Noble Truths, which are the foundation of Buddhism. The truths are:
The truth of suffering (dukkha)
The truth of the cause of suffering (samudaya)
The truth of the end of suffering (nirhodha)
The truth of the path that frees us from suffering (magga)
Read it up someday.
Kitty P
Sep 13, 2016, 10:25:44 AM9/13/16
to
"Julian" wrote in message news:nr3qrb$65f$1...@dont-email.me...
How condescending. There is a difference between the suffering that is a
natural part of existence and the suffering that we cause ourselves. The
look into the future as you've done, with impending horror causes yourself
to suffer unnecessarily. The Syrian refugees are suffering from ISIL. But
the average person in the UK and US are not.
Julian
Sep 13, 2016, 10:42:57 AM9/13/16
to
liaM
Sep 13, 2016, 11:34:49 AM9/13/16
to
Wilson
Sep 13, 2016, 12:06:02 PM9/13/16
to
having a home relieves one of the most basic type of suffering. But
even very rich people suffer.
No matter what you have, there is always something that you do not have.
That's an unconditional law of nature in this world.
How you deal with your feelings about what you don't have determines
your degree of suffering.
Of course everyone knows this.
awaken21
Sep 13, 2016, 2:40:19 PM9/13/16
to
The only reason anyone takes that comparison seriously is because they lack any extended exposure to the world they are not living in. Once you've actually spent some time in both, you understand. It's like the rich live on another planet within the one everyone else lives on..
Kitty P
Sep 15, 2016, 2:36:29 PM9/15/16
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"Julian" wrote in message news:nr939c$o38$1...@dont-email.me...
people do not even realize they're doing, it is very different.
Kitty P
Sep 15, 2016, 2:43:57 PM9/15/16
to
"liaM" wrote in message news:nr96ak$3fa$1...@dont-email.me...
enough without tormenting ourselves. Not sure what's so difficult to
understand about that....
liaM
Sep 15, 2016, 3:30:11 PM9/15/16
to
is pro-active. If I have a headache, I use my handy Tibetan pain mirror
(works faster than aspirin). If I come across suffering in the course
of a day, I do what I can to help. With Isil and all that crap which is
a direct result of US and European meddling fired up by arms merchants,
I do my best to raise my voice and vote to get the meddlers expunged
from the world.
So why are you tempted to torment yourself about the suffering of
others? Why, in fact, being a buddhist, are you still evidently
something of a victim in your own mind..
daletx
Sep 15, 2016, 7:11:24 PM9/15/16
to
and Google gets me nothing useful.
DT
liaM
Sep 15, 2016, 9:47:07 PM9/15/16
to
to work by reflecting the pain back unto itself. As I said, it works
fine, applied wherever a pain occurs on the body. I use it for stomach
aches, headaches and angina.
I found mine about twenty years ago at a local Tibetan shop in Paris.
Not expensive, I bought at least ten, ending up giving them to friends
and family needing pain relief. Some were 4", others 3".
As to how it works, my theory is that it's essentially a mindfulness
magnifier. It's faster than mindfulness for making pain disappear.
Perhaps it's faster because there's no mentation to it, unlike
mindfulness. But mindfulness, as every should know, is a powerful
antidote to pains of all kinds. Mindfulness = focusing the mind on
the pain long enough for it to be defused - takes the energy out of it.
I survived intensive care w/o morphine that way :)
Kitty P
Sep 16, 2016, 1:22:40 PM9/16/16
to
"liaM" wrote in message news:nrfiul$98h$1...@dont-email.me...
It is wonderful that you could do that - truly. I used my own form of
meditation and only had to take tylenol after the surgeries I've had in the
last three years.
As for suffering - I was only pointing out something that you just stated.
It wasn't meant as condescending. But c'mon - he made a comment about my not
knowing the most elementary concepts of Buddhist identification of
suffering. It actually was condescending, and I don't know another word for
it since I don't resort to your and other folks proclivity to call people
assholes and such instead.
Julian
Sep 16, 2016, 1:37:16 PM9/16/16
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liaM
Sep 16, 2016, 3:22:44 PM9/16/16
to
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