New Land Buddhist Order

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Sari Ellen Stiles

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Nov 4, 1994, 1:11:14 PM11/4/94
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From article <azw.4666...@aber.ac.uk>, by a...@aber.ac.uk (Andy Woodward):
>
> Surely a master would walk in teh door, look silly adn be serenely unaware of
> it?
>
No, a master walks in the door,
Looks silly,
Laughs,
and Is serenely AWARE of it!


Atanu Dey

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Nov 5, 1994, 1:43:46 AM11/5/94
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Scott "Rabbit" Pugh (rab...@teleport.com) wrote:

: Look, dude! How many times do I have to tell you?

: DON'T CALL ME SHIRLEY!

Shirley you're joking.

Atanu

Padma Bhumi

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Nov 5, 1994, 4:18:19 AM11/5/94
to
still the questioning and prodding for friction between practitioners continues
, why? maybe a verse from the dhammapada would help to explain the discord here
in this subject heading...

As an elephant endures the arrows of battle, I will patiently endure harsh
words. For such is the way of the world: Human beings are often cruel.
Just as the well-trained elephant lets the king mount him and ride him into
the fray, so does the well-disciplined man, the best of men, patiently endure
harsh words.

where is the practice of loving kindness here? from one i read 'i love you'....
from the other i read that love turned into an arrow that is turned to draw
blood. argument is good, beneficial if practiced on the base of compassion
but attack is harmful for the attacker, yet offers opportunities for the
one who is the object of attack to practice. still, it would be nice if the
attackee did not have such an opportunity.

peace......... padma

Riesgo Luis

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Nov 5, 1994, 1:37:07 PM11/5/94
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:)
Nice conviction.

Riesgo Luis

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Nov 5, 1994, 2:06:41 PM11/5/94
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Steven Coulter <scou...@unix1.circ.gwu.edu> writes:

>He hasn't denied having given himself the name "Lama Kunga Rinpoche" on
>Prodigy; he implies that he did such a thing when he refers to "trivialities
>regarding an AOL handle." Is it trivial to inaccurately refer to oneself
>as a Lama or Rinpoche? Is it (as Konchog seems to imply) evidence of a
>defect of character? I don't know, I'm just a poor excuse for a dabbler
>in Zen. But it would seem to me to be a big deal, and a bad sign that a
>person would shrug off such an action as a "trivialit[y]."

Why should i not deny it....

First of all Konchog is taking this all out of context, first of all, years ago
he asked me why i used the name
"lama Kunga Rinpoche" and i told him that
His Holliness Sakya Trizen once affectionally called me that when i was with
him, not that it was actually my "title"
...........for me it was an expression of a loving "nickname" His Holiness
once called me.

So i used it on as a handle for 1 week, that was all....Now in terms of being a
"Lama", I do have all the qualifications of one, and hence could be called Lama.
So still there is no un-truth on my part.........I really only teach Mahayana
and basic meditational practices.

Jacob H. Hamm

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Nov 5, 1994, 2:13:00 PM11/5/94
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In article <941105093...@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com>, JHU...@UNIVSCVM.CSD.SCAROLINA.EDU (Padma Bhumi) writes...

>where is the practice of loving kindness here? from one i read 'i love you'....
>from the other i read that love turned into an arrow that is turned to draw
>blood. argument is good, beneficial if practiced on the base of compassion
>but attack is harmful for the attacker, yet offers opportunities for the
>one who is the object of attack to practice. still, it would be nice if the
>attackee did not have such an opportunity.
>
I've read both sides. One had easy words of love, the other had hard
words full of compassion and concern. Rather than addressing those
concerns and respecting the compassion, there were love coated barbs
and honeyed character attacks. Then you post well considered toughtful
posts.

I look forward to seeing more of your posts, but I think a rose has
grown out of the shit.

Jay

Konchog Tsondu Tharchin

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Nov 6, 1994, 4:56:29 AM11/6/94
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Perhaps Luis' memory isn't quite a good as it used to be...

Actually, I never asked about his use of the titles, I had just gotten on
to prodigy, and was in the middle of a thread where Luis was trying to
bluff hi way through a group of people that he assumed would have no
knowledge of the Tibetan tradition. He did nt say that it was a
nick-name (Rinpche) he claimed that H.H. Sakya Trizin had given him this
title, and was in the middle of explaining how anyon could receive this
title if they underwent some minimal retreats (Mind you, this is the
title 'Rinpoche', not 'Lama' that we're taling about.) I jumped in the
middle of his shit there, just like I did here, the only difference being
that then he had the good sense t go away. He probable doesn't even
remember who I am (This was in the pre-monastic days, goin' by another
name...NOT Alex.) Please notice... he never made any posts about his new
"group" on the Tibetan Sub, where it might be more "appropriate" and
appreciated, no, because he knew they'd see through him. He was
attempting to snow some people on what he thought was a related, but not
too informed sub. Sorry, but he's lied AND insulted Sari, and now he's
pissed me off. Vajra-Wrath is a bitch.

Konchog Tsondu Tharchin
Buddhist monk, Drikung Kagyu
kon...@gladstone.uoregon.edu

Robert R. Schneck

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Nov 6, 1994, 1:03:47 PM11/6/94
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Konchog Tsondu Tharchin <kon...@gladstone.uoregon.edu> wrote:
...

>too informed sub. Sorry, but he's lied AND insulted Sari, and now he's
>pissed me off. Vajra-Wrath is a bitch.


Hug...

My one thought for all of you is: compassion...

Schneck


Robert R. Schneck

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Nov 6, 1994, 1:05:45 PM11/6/94
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Jacob H. Hamm <HA...@UHCL4.CL.UH.EDU> wrote:
>
>I look forward to seeing more of your posts, but I think a rose has
>grown out of the shit.


If Buddhism could be said to have a goal, I think it would be to grow a
rose out of the shit.

:),
Schneck

Ned Ludd

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Nov 6, 1994, 2:43:36 PM11/6/94
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In <Pine.SOL.3.91.941106014821.1355B-100000@gladstone>, Konchog wrote about
one of us:

> He was attempting to snow some people on what he thought was a related,
> but not too informed sub. Sorry, but he's lied AND insulted Sari...


Looks like he's got 'El Dupree' written all over him, right?


Ned

Riesgo Luis

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Nov 6, 1994, 2:53:27 PM11/6/94
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I have you folks know., there is not one mis-represntation that i have made so
far, and this personal attacking is verging on Liable.
You are spreading mis-truths and exagerations about me Konchog.

Your of Kagyupa, and i respect that lineage very much, most of my teachings
come from Sakyapa, and ya know Sakyapa does do things a bit different.
Secondly, i would never say that "rinpoche" is an earned title, why can't you
just let this go Konchog, why must you keep up this personl attacks?

If you persist in this, i would like to contact your dharma center and ask them
what is your problem, and find out if they know

Riesgo Luis

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Nov 6, 1994, 3:15:42 PM11/6/94
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>>>>>>Just a Reminder>>>>>>

this is the origanl purpose of this post:


New Land Buddhist Order

Introduction of Membership
This pamphlet is written for those interested in entering the New Land
Buddhist Order as a member; the procedure of Membership, Practices and
Membership expectations.

What is Buddhism and New Land Buddhist Order?

Basically Buddhism is one of the worlds Major Religions, it was founded some
2500 years ago in India by the Prince Siddhartha Guatama, who searched for the
path of truth and was unsatisfied with the conventional religions of his time.
He studied religion and meditation, then he directed himself to become
enlightened for the sake of himself and all beings. This lead him to his
enlightenment (Buddha-hood). He then spent the remaining 40 years of his
life teaching the path which he hi
mself tread.
To this day Buddhism has survived and has developed into many meditation
systems. Common thought to all systems of Buddhism are some basic doctrines
about the cause of suffering and the ending of the causes of suffering. Also,
Buddhism at it's hear
t holds the doctrine of Compassion and Loving Kindness. Buddhism has no
central Deity of worship, and states that in reality "highest truth" can not
even be put into words, but only experienced.
There are many forms of Modern Buddhism, the most known are the Vajrayana
sects from Tibet and the Zen sects of Japan. The Vajrayana, also known as
Tantric, is an esoteric form of Buddhism which uses traditional Yogic
techniques and rituals, where as
Zen is less ritual oriented and places it's emphasis on a more silent
meditative technique. New Land has evolved from World Buddhism in general,
"New Land" implies "America", and being so,
New Land is a unique order of Buddhism.
New Land has it's roots in all the Major traditions of Modern Buddhism.
Founded in 1994 by Kunga Choedak, Padma Bhumi (Fern Edwards)
Karuna Siddhi (Abdias Marin) and others,
for the sole purpose of spreading the Buddhas teachings within the American
Culture, in a Non-Ethnic, Non-Nationalistic and Non-Sectarian means. New Land
stresses techniques of all Lineages of Buddhism of which there is a valid
transmission of teaching.
Hence, New Land uses techniques of the Tibetan Systems, and the various Zen
systems. We currently Hold teachings transmitted by the Soto Zen School,
Korean Won, The Tibetan Gelugpa, Nyigmapa, Kagyupa and especially trained in
the Sakyapa order of Tib
etan Tantra. We feel that there is no conflict in being a member of any other
Buddhist Lineage, in fact it will only benefit us more to be as ecumenical as
possible in the pursuit of truth.
New Land has two centers in the U.S.A., one in South Carolina and the Main
Center is in
Miami, Fl. New Land is member supported and membership is open to all without
member dues as well as all teachings (except for cost of materials or in the
case of Visiting Teachers from other Tradition there will be a cost to cover
traveling and related
costs)
We will be more than happy to engage anyone into Our Buddhist order with a
Basic "refuge" ceremony, or if you are already a Buddhist from a recognized
Order Membership is considered automatic. We do stress Basic meditation
practice and an understandi
ng of basic doctrine for all members. More advanced practices such as the
Vajrayana form of Buddhism will be given to those that desire it, according to
the Lam-dre (path including it's results) as transmitted by the Glorious
Tibetan system of the Sakyapa
Order, as this system is our current Line of Tantric Transmission. We invite
all Teachers of Dharma to join us, as well as students from all lineages.
It is our wish that beings be brought to the teachings of the Buddhist path
and be free from war, crime, and hardships. And that all beings have all
the causes of Long Life, Joy, Love, Peace and Equanimity without exception.

The Basics
Taking Refuge

Taking refuge is the Basis of Joining the Sangha (community of Buddhists).
The Refuge ceremony, also called the Hair-cutting ceremony, is a symbolic
ritual also know as "taking the Three Jewels." The Refuge ceremony is when one
takes the Triple Refug
e Vow, also known as the Pratimoksha ("Individual Liberation vow"), this vow is
to take refuge in the 1) Enlightened Ones,
2) The Teachings of the Enlightened Ones, and, 3) the Community of followers.
This is Known as taking Refuge in the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha.
When one takes Refuge one also vows to uphold the Basic Regulations of all
Buddhists, this basic regulation is known as the "5 Precepts." The 5 Precepts
are:
1) No Killing
2) No Stealing
3) No Lying
4) No Sexual Impurity
5) No use of Alcohol-drugs recklessly.
This is the most common manner of joining most every existing school of
Buddhism. This ceremony is also called the Hinayana Vows. Hinayana means
"Small Vehicle", the reason for this is because one makes the Vow to engage in
the Buddhist order for o
ne's own salvation.
Since New Land Buddhist Order is a Ecumenical Mahayana ("greater Vehicle")
order, this Basic refuge ceremony is considered the first step towards the
Mahayana path. This Mahayana path is marked by the Vow to Enlighten other
Beings.



Engaging in the Mahayana, the true heart of New Land Buddhist Order.

After One has taken the Pratimoksha vows and refuge ceremony, then one
will be able to learn the Mahayana teachings and advanced Meditation
techniques. The basis of Mahayana is in the cultivation of "Bodhicitta" (=The
Mind 0f Enlightenment). This
Bodhicitta is cultivated by taking the Bodhicitta vows of the Bodhisattva
(Enlightenment-being). This Bodhicitta is the development of loving kindness
motivated by great Compassion and the realization of the ultimate nature of
reality called Sunyatta.
Upon doing this, one also takes upon them selves the Precepts of the
Bodhisattva, these precepts known as the Paramitas (=To cross beyond) is the
cultivation of:
1) Generosity
2) Moral Virtue
3) Tolerance to others
4) Dedicated energy
5) Cultivation of Meditation
6) The perfection of Wisdom.
In Learning the Above many teachings and Meditation techniques will be
offered. This is the Level of Most Zen traditions.
In the New Land Buddhist Order we have adopted Many teachings to meet this
end.
We have both an ecumenical and orthodox foundation for teaching the instruction
of the Mahayana Path.
Before one can transcend to the Highest Level of Mahayana Buddhism, called
the Vajrayana "Diamond-Path", one must attend to teachings which are
consistent with the cultivation towards that end. In New Land Buddhist Order,
we have chosen to adopt th
e teachings Known as "The Three Visions" which is a Sakyapa work, as well as
Ngondro Practice intended to takes one through the basic stages of the Mahayana.
Although we do not demand that all members take these teachings it is a
prerequisite towards the higher dedicated teachings of the Vajrayana, and so
it is highly suggested that one dedicate themselves to this goal if they wish.
When one takes on th
e vows of the Vajrayana, one is expected to serve as an active member who has
committed them selves to the Sangha completely.
We will share the Vajrayana teaching of "Great Compassion" to anyone who
has fulfilled the above, but this one practice is the exception to the rule.
Expectations of Active-Students on the Mahayana Level

(Membership Rules)

All students on the Mahayana Level are expected to commit themselves to
daily prescribed practices on their own and the cultivation of the Teachings.
In order to consider ones self an active member one is expected to:
1) To take part in teachings when given.
2) Expected to attend at least 3 times a month Sangha Practice and Sangha
Meetings.
3) And to engage in the Material and spiritual growth of the Sangha as
requested..
(You will not be allowed to receive Vajrayana Teachings unless the
above has been followed to Teacher satisfaction)

(The Vajrayana level IS NOT DEMANDED from all students, BUT IS EXPECTED that
all Center leaders take these teachings.)

The Vajrayana-Level
The level of Vajrayana buddhism is the apex of Mahayana Buddhism. This
form of Buddhism is reserved for superior students of great intelligence and
unshakable dedication to the Teacher and Buddhist path. This form of Buddhism
is known as the most e
xpedient means towards Buddhahood.
When you take the Vajrayana in our order you are expected to eventually
take on a Leadership role in our order and to aid in the material and spiritual
growth of our Order. You will be expected to be able to represent our Order
and be able to lead a
Meditation session as well as expound Teachings on the basic Mahayana level.
There are 4 levels of Tantric-Vajrayana. To become proficient in the basics
of Vajrayana may take a few years of Mahayana-Vajrayana training in order to be
accepted into Highe
st Vajra Practices. WE ASK THAT ALL MEMBERS THAT STRIVE TO FOLLOW VAJRA
PRACTICES TO OBTAIN TEACHINGS FROM ALL LINEAGES OF VAJRAYANA AND FROM
TEACHERS WITH VALID TRADITION TRANSMISSIONS.

All students who would like to advance to the vajrayana level
(not mandatory if you chose to practice only Mahayana level Buddhism, such as
Zen)
are expected to:
1) Strive to practice twice a week in the company of the Sangha. mANY OF OUR
MEMBERS CURENTLY PRACTICE: MANJUSHRI, TARA, CHENREZI, MENLA AND HEVAJRA IN
GROUP PRACTICE.
2) Commit yourself fully to YOUR VOWS OF ALL YOUR TEACHERS as well the New
Land Order spiritually and materially.


These will be practiced Sunday (in Miami) at the Sakyapa Kunga Dzong
Center, and During the week and Saturday at the New Land Center.


How to open up your own New Land Center:

If you are interested in forming a New Land Center in your area, in addition to
the above we request the following:
1) That you have an actual place of practice for yourself and others, and this
place be set up with a buddhist altar.
2) That you abide by the above stated memebership rules for your own center.
3) That you are able to attend a Yearly New Land Board of directorship
meeting, as you would be the Center Director, and hence a Member of the Board
of Directors.
4) Before affiliation can be made final, we request that either one of our
director-teachers be brought to your center (travel costs, food and lodging
provided by yourselves) or, you travel to our main center for interview,
Ordination as well as Teachings
.



This is a free gift of :
New Land Buddhist Order
P.O. Box 1676, Miami Fl 33233
phone 305-643-3725. (Miami Center)
Internet E-mail Address
Ku...@Pro-Entropy.cts.com

New Land Center, South Carolina
Located in Lexington 10 miles from Columbia.
Phone 803-359-4769 ask for Fern Edwards.

Compiled by: Kunga Choedak (Luis Riesgo) For the New Land Buddhist Order
Call or write us anytime

sh...@world.std.com

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Nov 6, 1994, 3:38:56 PM11/6/94
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In article <39f44d$p...@unix1.circ.gwu.edu>,
Steven Coulter <scou...@unix1.circ.gwu.edu> wrote:
>I'd like to offer a few thoughts about this Riesgo Luis/tantra/Kunga person.
>...He posted a long piece about (as I recall) honoring one's teachers. It
>struck me as stultifyingly serious and dripping with doctrine and maybe
>even self-importance...
>Basically, I guess I just want to compare notes with other absfg-ers.
>I've found Mr. Luis' posts quite unsettling, and the interchange with
>Konchog alarming. I don't like thinking of another person as being
>devious, yet there are certainly devious (or deluded) souls out there.
>Mr. Berg would seem to be more magnanamous than I. What think other
>absfg-ers?

Stultifyingly serious and dripping with doctrine? Definitely. Alarming?
Naaaah...just another Bozo on the Bus. I think he fits right in...

Barry (and think of the flame wars he'll generate) Wright

sh...@world.std.com

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Nov 6, 1994, 3:43:58 PM11/6/94
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>Padma Bhumi <JHU...@UNIVSCVM.CSD.SCAROLINA.EDU> wrote:
>>
>>where is the practice of loving kindness here? from one i read 'i love you'..
>>from the other i read that love turned into an arrow that is turned to draw
>>blood.

If _saying_ or _writing_ "I love you" had anything to do with loving,
or was in any way indicative of a person's character, we could use
the nation's divorce lawyers as landfill.

Barry (we should anyway) Wright

Jerry Smith

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Nov 6, 1994, 3:52:13 PM11/6/94
to
Reply:

If you leaves roses & shit alone, don't they do it by themselves?


This space deliberately left blank
-*: Jeremy Smith jsm...@cyberstore.ca :*-


Bill Keyes aka the Ferret-Meister

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Nov 6, 1994, 4:30:25 PM11/6/94
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Riesgo Luis <tan...@delphi.com> writes:
>I have you folks know.,

As the infamous C. Lew has said, if only it were that easy.

>there is not one mis-represntation that i have made so
>far, and this personal attacking is verging on Liable.

I heard somewhere (From Ned Morton-Ludd, I think) that some internet
mailing-list fellow got sued for liable. Seems he said something nasty
about someone or other, and put it into his electronic newsletter, and
the sue-er won! Now the guy can't even post anything contraversial to
a newsgroup. Sigh.

Tread carefully.

>You are spreading mis-truths and exagerations about me Konchog.

Geez, I wish someone would spread a few mistruths and exagerations about
me! Feel lucky, you're among a proud and exclusive group.

>Your of Kagyupa, and i respect that lineage very much, most of my teachings
>come from Sakyapa, and ya know Sakyapa does do things a bit different.

Hey hey hey! None of that "L"-word stuff around here, buddy!

>Secondly, i would never say that "rinpoche" is an earned title, why can't you
>just let this go Konchog, why must you keep up this personl attacks?

Someone help out a poor ig'nerent ferret here... whassa rinpoche?

>If you persist in this, i would like to contact your dharma center and ask them
>what is your problem, and find out if they know

Or you could just ask me! I'm sure I can help. heh heh.

Bill. ("Take no shit, do no harm -- my two vows.")

sh...@world.std.com

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Nov 6, 1994, 6:54:20 PM11/6/94
to
>Riesgo Luis <tan...@delphi.com> writes:
>>You are spreading mis-truths and exagerations about me Konchog.
>>If you persist in this, i would like to contact your dharma center and ask them
>>what is your problem, and find out if they know

If you don't play according to my rules, I'm gonna tell your lineage on you!

Barry (sorry for using the L-word) Wright

Riesgo Luis

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Nov 6, 1994, 11:38:27 PM11/6/94
to
Konchog Tsondu Tharchin <kon...@gladstone.uoregon.edu> writes:

>Yeah, tell 'em I've grown my hair into a long pony tail, wear jeans and
>kick puppies too. Go find a cave somewhere...

>
>Konchog Tsondu Tharchin
>Buddhist monk, Drikung Kagyu
>kon...@gladstone.uoregon.edu

Finally you have something with some humor in it...that made me smile from ear
to ear.

Christine L. Hughes

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Nov 7, 1994, 8:06:31 AM11/7/94
to
>Konchog Tsondu Tharchin <kon...@gladstone.uoregon.edu> wrote:
>>maybe we could get together? Everyone else seems to be able to meet, it
>>oughtta be our turn!

Scott Pugh wrote:
>*nods enthusiastically* I think I've seen some other people around
>and about from this area (-----Chris ? and someone posting from Portland
>State ?). We could certainly have a shindig. Picnics are traditional,

That would be sooooo cool!! I've got another 'puter friend in Portland who
keeps bugging me to come down and visit her -- and the only excuse I have is
I have no time :(. The only time I can think of now is Thanksgiving &
Christmas, but I'm pretty booked for the holidays... but if something is
planned, I'll try to make it!!

-----Chris

Konchog Tsondu Tharchin

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Nov 7, 1994, 11:10:10 AM11/7/94
to
Great! We cold make this a real West Coast ABSFG "thing"!

Konchog

Sari Ellen Stiles

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Nov 7, 1994, 1:01:22 PM11/7/94
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From article <39f44d$p...@unix1.circ.gwu.edu>, by scou...@unix1.circ.gwu.edu (Steven Coulter):

> He hasn't denied having given himself the name "Lama Kunga Rinpoche" on
> Prodigy; he implies that he did such a thing when he refers to "trivialities
> regarding an AOL handle." Is it trivial to inaccurately refer to oneself
> as a Lama or Rinpoche?
It has occured to me that if someone declared themselves "Cardinal" or
"Bishop" of say "Chicago" likewise even if ONLY as a net handle that
CERTAINLY people would say "The HECK you are..." and to be offended...
likewise someone without being given the title "Reverend" or even "Rebbe"
using it will be, and OUGHT to be called on it... if for no other reason
than it offends (or could offend) those who do have claim to it. (Or are on
their way to earning it by the standard fashion.)

>Is it (as Konchog seems to imply) evidence of a
> defect of character? I don't know, I'm just a poor excuse for a dabbler
> in Zen. But it would seem to me to be a big deal, and a bad sign that a
> person would shrug off such an action as a "trivialit[y]."

Bingo.... and doesn't it look like...well...overblown EGO... to be awarding
oneself a title. I suspect that if/when some of the big guys get net access
we may see them using their mundane names as much or more than tossing their
titles around. Imagine what would happen to an email box titled "Dalai
Lama" ...it'd need it's own server!
> Maybe the Prodigy/AOL name was meant humorously. Maybe pigs have wings.
> He also seems to cast doubt on Konchog's status by putting Konchog's
> self-description as a monk in "quotes."
Konchog can and will verify his lineage.... and it seems obvious to me
(email and voice chats) that Konchog is legit...
> even self-importance. Ripe stuff for well-placed absfg barbs, but few
exactly self-importance, sounds a heck of a lot like the rama thing... which
we don't want to start again...(do we?)
> harpoons seemed to have been aimed at the post. Conscious decisions by
> absfg-ers to ignore the post?
generally, too easy of a target...looks like a trap for another flame
debacle...

> Basically, I guess I just want to compare notes with other absfg-ers.
> I've found Mr. Luis' posts quite unsettling, and the interchange with
> Konchog alarming. I don't like thinking of another person as being
> devious, yet there are certainly devious (or deluded) souls out there.
> Mr. Berg would seem to be more magnanamous than I. What think other
> absfg-ers?

I think My vote goes with Konchog....
I haven't seen so much as a HINT of a clue in the new land folks
yet...


John Neatrou scoulded me (kindly mind you) in email because I
accidentally refered to Tonen as "Roshi"...
"she is NOT..."
and she is his friend, he wanted me to understand that I was being careless
with a rather hefty title.
(I gotta wander over to that Zen center and say "Howdy" one of these days...)

sari

Sari Ellen Stiles

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Nov 7, 1994, 1:33:09 PM11/7/94
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From article <39hv1k$p...@linda.teleport.com>, by rab...@teleport.com (Scott "Rabbit" Pugh):
(much old home week stuff snipped...)>
> *nods enthusiastically* I think I've seen some other people around
> and about from this area (-----Chris ? and someone posting from Portland
> State ?). We could certainly have a shindig. Picnics are traditional,
>
Hey! the Middle Coast picnic was INDOORS! pick a coffeehouse or someone's
livingroom, or get a conference room at the student union at Uof Oregon...
(of course it has to include the Buddhist Student Union of Konchog's....)

OR Y'all can use MY living room when I move down the hall in a few weeks...
(more on that later...)

Sari Ellen Stiles

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Nov 7, 1994, 1:50:06 PM11/7/94
to
From article <Pine.SOL.3.91.941106014821.1355B-100000@gladstone>, by Konchog Tsondu Tharchin <kon...@gladstone.uoregon.edu>:

> pissed me off. Vajra-Wrath is a bitch.


Ut OH! the monk is pissed off.... (head for the bomb shelters!)
...the only thing I can imagine as MORE alarming would be a pissed off
lama...


In a break from _ShadowRun_ I bounced couple of Buddhajargon terms off
Rayz'r (resident Wiccan/Lord knows what/Shadowrun GM)

"Sangha- one HECK of a Shadow Run team...
We'll let the Lamas be the mages since
they are anyway."


Sari Ellen Stiles

unread,
Nov 7, 1994, 2:08:29 PM11/7/94
to
From article <39jhth$1l...@lamar.ColoState.EDU>, by bke...@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Bill Keyes aka the Ferret-Meister):

>>Your of Kagyupa, and i respect that lineage very much, most of my teachings
>>come from Sakyapa, and ya know Sakyapa does do things a bit different.
>
> Hey hey hey! None of that "L"-word stuff around here, buddy!
Hey wait! isn't there another Sakyapa person out here?! Andrew maybe?
>
> Someone help out a poor ig'nerent ferret here... whassa rinpoche?
No problem, Rinpoche (generally a gifted title) means "precious one" infers
that the person has more that just a clue.
Elric the Ferret (small white furry) could possibly be called a
Rinpoche by biological fortune, with Humans it's somewhat more complicated.

From what I gather Lama is something like a Rebbe...mainly Teacher/someone
with clues who has been taught how to share them...

and a Tulku is someone who is an incarnation of someone with big clues,
possibly even coming back to do the same job as last time. (Abbot or some
such.) Not all Lama's or even all Rimpoche's are Tulkus, and neither do all
Tulkus do those jobs.... Heck, a Tulku could even be some Yokel on the
net...)

How close was that Konchog?


Riesgo Luis

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Nov 7, 1994, 6:37:43 PM11/7/94
to
Sari Ellen Stiles <sa...@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> writes:

>likewise someone without being given the title "Reverend" or even "Rebbe"
>using it will be, and OUGHT to be called on it... if for no other reason
>than it offends (or could offend) those who do have claim to it. (Or are on
>their way to earning it by the standard fashion.)

That is funny
I am a Legal Reverend in the state of Florida, yes indeed
Rev. Kunga Choedak...yes I can Marry folks and it is legal.
..Just thought i would pass that on to you .


>Konchog can and will verify his lineage.... and it seems obvious to me
>(email and voice chats) that Konchog is legit...
>> even self-importance. Ripe stuff for well-placed absfg barbs, but few
>exactly self-importance, sounds a heck of a lot like the rama thing... which

anyone is welcome to call me up as well, and I'll discuss my Sakyapa Lineage,
Won, Nyigma and even New Land. I am a nice guy


>> absfg-ers?
>I think My vote goes with Konchog....
> I haven't seen so much as a HINT of a clue in the new land folks
>yet...

Yes you have.... PadmaBhumi is also New Land.

Riesgo Luis

unread,
Nov 7, 1994, 6:42:53 PM11/7/94
to
Sari Ellen Stiles <sa...@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> writes:

>From what I gather Lama is something like a Rebbe...mainly Teacher/someone
>with clues who has been taught how to share them...
>
>and a Tulku is someone who is an incarnation of someone with big clues,
>possibly even coming back to do the same job as last time. (Abbot or some
>such.) Not all Lama's or even all Rimpoche's are Tulkus, and neither do all
>Tulkus do those jobs.... Heck, a Tulku could even be some Yokel on the

that sounds like the essence of it.
:)

Konchog Tsondu Tharchin

unread,
Nov 6, 1994, 8:48:31 PM11/6/94
to
Yeah, tell 'em I've grown my hair into a long pony tail, wear jeans and
kick puppies too. Go find a cave somewhere...

Konchog Tsondu Tharchin

Steven Coulter

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Nov 8, 1994, 12:37:59 AM11/8/94
to
In article <39lssu$8...@uwm.edu>,

Sari Ellen Stiles <sa...@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> wrote:
>From article <Pine.SOL.3.91.941106014821.1355B-100000@gladstone>, by Konchog Tsondu Tharchin <kon...@gladstone.uoregon.edu>:
>> pissed me off. Vajra-Wrath is a bitch.
>
>
>Ut OH! the monk is pissed off.... (head for the bomb shelters!)
>...the only thing I can imagine as MORE alarming would be a pissed off
>lama...
>
<snip>
Actually, pissed off llamas are MUCH more alarming.




Jacob H. Hamm

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Nov 8, 1994, 10:05:00 AM11/8/94
to
In article <Pine.SOL.3.91.941106014821.1355B-100000@gladstone>, Konchog Tsondu Tharchin <kon...@gladstone.uoregon.edu> writes...

>too informed sub. Sorry, but he's lied AND insulted Sari, and now he's
>pissed me off. Vajra-Wrath is a bitch.
>
I'm sorry to hear this, perhaps if you think of his words a a facet of
the Monty Python or Animaniacs thread it word help. (Personally, my
dog was licking my ear while I read his posts and it makes all the
difference. :]) (Vajra-?)Wrath is like a sword with a dagger for its
handle.

Jay

Austin George Loomis

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Nov 8, 1994, 9:17:34 AM11/8/94
to
In article <39n2rn$q...@unix1.circ.gwu.edu>,

Steven Coulter <scou...@unix1.circ.gwu.edu> wrote:
>In article <39lssu$8...@uwm.edu>,
>Sari Ellen Stiles <sa...@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> wrote:
[...]

>>...the only thing I can imagine as MORE alarming would be a pissed off
>>lama...
[...]

>Actually, pissed off llamas are MUCH more alarming.

Clarinda? T-Bone? La? I think this one's all yours.
--
"I just love the whole incoherent Treklander quality of this fanfic." Crow
T. Robot, MST Adventures 201 (MiSTed by Austin Loomis, coming soon)

J Huff

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Nov 8, 1994, 9:22:19 AM11/8/94
to
> Andy Woodward <a...@aber.ac.uk> wrote:
> >Surely a master would walk in teh door, look silly adn be serenely unaware of
> >it?

> Look, dude! How many times do I have to tell you?

> DON'T CALL ME SHIRLEY!

> --Scott
> "Aka John"

What seems to be your problem, Shirly?

John ("Really! I'm ot Scott...")

Konchog Tsondu Tharchin

unread,
Nov 8, 1994, 12:32:33 PM11/8/94
to
Sari..... :)

Joshin Yamada

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Nov 8, 1994, 1:05:39 PM11/8/94
to
Konchog Tsondu Tharchin (kon...@gladstone.uoregon.edu) wrote:
: Great! We cold make this a real West Coast ABSFG "thing"!

: Konchog

I am also excited by the idea of a absfg "thing", especially if it
culd happen in Portland (besides being a newbie to the net, absfg,
and Buddhism, I am also not overflowing with cash or transportation).

I think I will make a new thread so our ideas on possibilities of
an absfg fun fest will not be so intertwined with the New Land....
..ah, conversation. So maybe you could look for a "West Coast absfg
Thing!" before you reply here?

Deebie

Jacob H. Hamm

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Nov 8, 1994, 1:12:00 PM11/8/94
to
In article <Z6237Rv...@delphi.com>, Riesgo Luis <tan...@delphi.com> writes...
>
<snit snipped>

Please read the faq, or we will send Curly sensi to yuk at you.

Jay

(Yuk, Yuk, Yuk)

Konchog Tsondu Tharchin

unread,
Nov 8, 1994, 1:13:53 PM11/8/94
to
I think you missed her point. I'm sure she read "PadmaBhumi"'s post, and
you coldn't help but know that he was "New Land" if you read his post...
and if she still says she hasn't seen any sign of a clue... well....

Konchog Tsondu Tharchin

Joshin Yamada

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Nov 8, 1994, 1:13:53 PM11/8/94
to
Sari Ellen Stiles (sa...@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu) wrote:
: From article <Pine.SOL.3.91.941106014821.1355B-100000@gladstone>, by Konchog Tsondu Tharchin <kon...@gladstone.uoregon.edu>:

: > pissed me off. Vajra-Wrath is a bitch.

: ...the only thing I can imagine as MORE alarming would be a pissed off
: lama...

I don't know, I've heard that Llamas spit when they're pissed. Once a
walrus spit dirty-walrus-pool water at me when I was at the Saint Louis
zoo, and it was pretty horrible--cold and slimy and incredibly stinky.

Deebie

Jacob H. Hamm

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Nov 8, 1994, 1:29:00 PM11/8/94
to
In article <39jhth$1l...@lamar.ColoState.EDU>, bke...@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Bill Keyes aka the Ferret-Meister) writes...

>Someone help out a poor ig'nerent ferret here... whassa rinpoche?
>
Rinpoche is a way of cooking rins, just like eggpoche is a
way of cooking eggs.

Hope this helped,

Jay

Sari Ellen Stiles

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Nov 8, 1994, 1:29:27 PM11/8/94
to
From article <B8x3z7-...@delphi.com>, by Riesgo Luis <tan...@delphi.com>:

> anyone is welcome to call me up as well, and I'll discuss my Sakyapa Lineage,
> Won, Nyigma and even New Land. I am a nice guy
>

still strikes me as a very odd casserole ya' got there...
Konchog? Lefty?

Sari Ellen Stiles

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Nov 8, 1994, 1:39:34 PM11/8/94
to
From article <8NOV1994...@uhcl4.cl.uh.edu>, by ha...@uhcl4.cl.uh.edu (Jacob H. Hamm):

> I'm sorry to hear this, perhaps if you think of his words a a facet of
> the Monty Python or Animaniacs thread it word help. (Personally, my
> dog was licking my ear while I read his posts and it makes all the
> difference. :])

by the way folks, it's really hard to insult someone, when you haven't first
earned their respect....

ok, new net game! how d'ya earn a person's respect...no fair posting if I've
already emailed my answer unless you've got something even better...

sari

Sari Ellen Stiles

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Nov 8, 1994, 1:45:09 PM11/8/94
to
From article <Pine.SOL.3.91.941108093420.21576D-100000@gladstone>, by Konchog Tsondu Tharchin <kon...@gladstone.uoregon.edu>:
> Sari, you could actually have a debate over your claim about Elric being
> perhaps a Rinpoche by biological fortune, animals ARE considered to be
> lower realm creatures... then again, seems to me Elric has a few clues of
> his own! I guess basically it all boils down to the fact that you can
Hmmm, does it make a difference that he's a particularly sweet albino ferret?

funny ferret story...
last night I was laying awake at 1am (woke up for no apparent
reason) and staring at the ceiling being quiet...I hear a crying noise in
Joleen's room, it's Elric...he wants to play... so out he comes, to cuddle
and act all hyper... and just be darling...and then he asks to go back to
bed...kinda..."stay with me please!...."
I hope he hasn't trained me to get up at 1 am to play!

> talk and talk about it, and all you'll get is.....
> cold breakfast!
pop tarts, hmmmmm,...
if you don't bother to toast them, they can't get cold... hehehehee...

Big Hug! here have a pop tart...

sari

David W Sims

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Nov 8, 1994, 2:45:46 PM11/8/94
to
A while back, Riesgo Luis said:

>>I am a nice guy

I'll probably mess up my kamma, but. . . .

If you gotta say it, Ri, it's because you ain't
demonstrated it yet.

It's a funny thing about the way of the Buddha that,
while it (more or less) denies the existence of a
continuing personal essence, it still 'travels' through
the ethos of its propagators: that is, who you are still
affects your ability to teach others effectively. And
this is, crazily, really apparent on the net. If you
don't take the care to come in with compassion, you
louse up your chances for a good long time. If you
were to look back at most of the posts responding to
you to date, you'd see that you've created quite a
persona for yourself. *Might* have nothing to do with
who you really are, but. . . .

So maybe you could drop it for a while. And especially
quit posting your brochure, here and on talk.religion.
buddhism. As I say, it's an odd thing, but impersonal
communications don't (on the whole) improve one's
persona.

David

sh...@world.std.com

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Nov 8, 1994, 3:45:06 PM11/8/94
to
In article <941108071...@aol.com>, <Pad...@aol.com> wrote:
>this is directed to shoki......
>
>< a ticket is waiting.... >
>
>I usually do not fall prey the poisoned barbs directed by others, such as
>yourself... but your last post went beyond the bounds of humorous disrespect
>and entered upon the grounds of hell-beings caught in the samsara of their
>own self-importance.

Flattery will get you nowhere.

> ...wake up shoki... wake up to the
>path of a bodhisattva and help those who you would percieve as deluded and
>lost in the grip of samsara...

That was the entire reason for my post. Learning to laugh at
oneself, one's path, and their basic sillinesses is a great lesson.
One you obviously still need to learn...

shoki

Konchog Tsondu Tharchin

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Nov 8, 1994, 12:37:18 PM11/8/94
to
Sari, you could actually have a debate over your claim about Elric being
perhaps a Rinpoche by biological fortune, animals ARE considered to be
lower realm creatures... then again, seems to me Elric has a few clues of
his own! I guess basically it all boils down to the fact that you can
talk and talk about it, and all you'll get is.....
cold breakfast!

Konchog Tsondu Tharchin

Steven Coulter

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Nov 8, 1994, 4:52:16 PM11/8/94
to
In article <941108071...@aol.com>, <Pad...@aol.com> wrote:
>this is directed to shoki......
>
>< a ticket is waiting.... >
>
>I usually do not fall prey the poisoned barbs directed by others, such as
>yourself... but your last post went beyond the bounds of humorous disrespect
>and entered upon the grounds of hell-beings caught in the samsara of their
<snip>
Your distress is palpable. I am saddened by it.
But you should understand that this group has a certain culture and
tradition. If you read the FAQ and a few week's worth of postings, you'll
see that shoki's post was entirely in keeping with the spirit of the
newsgroup. One should post here only after understanding the risk of
being harpooned on one's own dearly held beliefs. The suggestion of
starting a chapter in Sarajevo and then taking up a collection to ship
Luis there was a little mean, but VERY funny. Is it buddhist or reverent
to be a little mean? No. Is it in the spirit of absfg? Absolutely.

Sari suggested that you do your newsgroup reading and writing in a more
serious forum. I don't think that was sarcastic, malicious, or
sharp-tongued. I think it was sound advice. Don't be hurt, don't be
offended; don't read here.

Go in peace.

Jacob H. Hamm

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Nov 8, 1994, 5:33:00 PM11/8/94
to
In article <941108071...@aol.com>, Pad...@aol.com writes...

>this is directed to shoki......
>
>I usually do not fall prey the poisoned barbs directed by others, such as
hmm ... if you don't then you're a natural flame bodhisatva. ;) Excellent
flame (I hope you've got asbesteos underware :])

BTW, while I will not guess at shoki's motives, it is no kindness to *not*
question another's path. To become attached to a path is the most
insidious of attachments. Perhaps some questions would make a good exaple:

Is your path a good path?
Would Jack the Ripper be turned away?
Have you ever caused another suffering defending your path?
Would you miss your path if you lost it?
Is your path an excuss to avoid your inner delusions?
Is your path holy?
Is your master a god?

Attack in a dojo is done to expose weakness. It teaches and strengthens
instead of destroying.

Just my thoughts,

Jay

<really good flame snipped - well I liked it any way:)>

Jacob H. Hamm

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Nov 8, 1994, 5:49:00 PM11/8/94
to
In article <39ogl6$8...@uwm.edu>, sa...@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu writes...

>ok, new net game! how d'ya earn a person's respect...no fair posting if I've
>already emailed my answer unless you've got something even better...
>
Respect is already there if a persons respect is worth earning, if it is
something they want you to earn then I suggest more producitive pastimes
like hitting you head with a brick. If you want more respect then
pratice your "right" action and those worthy of being respected by will
respect you.

Jay

(PS: Respect yourself and you will be worthy of that respect and actaccordingly.
) [Aren't paradoxes fun]

John Neatrour

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Nov 8, 1994, 7:24:48 PM11/8/94
to
In article <39og27$8...@uwm.edu>,

Sari Ellen Stiles <sa...@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu> wrote:

sorry it's only me.

sounds more like New Land Buddhist Disorder, a strange spritual ailment
diagnosed in the sutras and shastras as being on so many paths that you
can't walk on even one.

i reserve my own right to form my impression of this being a 'nice guy'
group. so far it doesn't have that fragrance to this nose.

maybe he ran around trying to get attached to a lineage so enegergetically
there was none left over for doing any real practice.

jn

Pad...@aol.com

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Nov 8, 1994, 7:16:11 AM11/8/94
to
this is directed to shoki......

< a ticket is waiting.... >

I usually do not fall prey the poisoned barbs directed by others, such as

yourself... but your last post went beyond the bounds of humorous disrespect
and entered upon the grounds of hell-beings caught in the samsara of their

own self-importance. You, shoki... show no wish to entertain even a
smidgeon of respect for another's path. your mindfullness is sorely lacking,
your ego a choker like a noose around your neck, cutting off your breath, and
your wish to demonstrate your great wit amongst those you would consider your
peers a leash that drags you to lift your leg upon roses..... yes, i am
making judgement, and yes, i question my wisdom in doing so, but i cannot let
such a post glide by without comment.... wake up shoki... wake up to the


path of a bodhisattva and help those who you would percieve as deluded and

lost in the grip of samsara.... .. if your prajna is so highly developed that
you feel you can properly chastise another, use that wisdom for positive
results and not to deepen the suffering with glib sarcasm and caustic remarks
refering to a country undergoing so sad and violent a time..... shoki.... I
am New Land, Kunga Choedak does not stand alone, and i do not respond on his
behalf, for if he wishes he would do so on his own.... he and i are of
differing temperments, yet one and the same in the dharma as are you......
shoki..... may you and all beings ever be touched by the causes of peace,
joy, love and EQUANIMITY.... be well shoki, and practice with loving kindness
permeating your body, speech and heart....... padma

Robert R. Schneck

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Nov 8, 1994, 9:17:50 PM11/8/94
to
Jerry Smith <jsm...@yvr.cyberstore.ca> wrote:
>> If Buddhism could be said to have a goal, I think it would be to grow a
>> rose out of the shit.
>
>If you leaves roses & shit alone, don't they do it by themselves?


Precisely! <bow>

:),
Schneck

Riesgo Luis

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Nov 8, 1994, 9:41:04 PM11/8/94