Un-Flying Crust
Janet Bostwick
out of recreational bread making time. I made the dough for the bread
(referred to previously in thread "Flying Crust") late yesterday afternoon.
I made the following changes: I cut the water back by one quarter cup, cut
the salt from one ounce to one tablespoon and doubled the diastatic malt
from 1.5 teaspoons to one tablespoon.
These changes instantly made the most well-behaved dough--no stickiness at
all. Unfortunately it resulted in a totally pedestrian bread. Although
the dough doubled in the tins, the crumb is small celled with an unpleasant
smell and aftertaste of yeast. Reminds me of the soft, white dinner rolls
you get with Christmas dinner. Yuk. When I removed the loaves from the
refrigerator they were not domed as usual but did have decent oven spring.
The resulting loaves were free of shelling, but there appears to be some
small bubbles the size of peas and maybe marbles under the crust. These
bubbles are separate and different from the tiny blisters that result from
overnight refrigeration. They are no doubt a result of the few snappish gas
bubbles that I encountered in the fermented and rounded up dough--don't know
what causes this. I will try using a whisk to make a smooth batter when
first introducing the dry ingredient mixture to the water. The color is a
good, a sort of reddish oak color. I will make the bread again today and
put the additional water back and see how that changes things. It should
loosen up the crumb.
Janet
Mike Avery
> I know you are supposed to make only one change at a time, but I am
> running out of recreational bread making time. I made the dough for
> the bread (referred to previously in thread "Flying Crust") late
> yesterday afternoon. I made the following changes: I cut the water
> back by one quarter cup, cut the salt from one ounce to one tablespoon
> and doubled the diastatic malt from 1.5 teaspoons to one tablespoon.
>
> These changes instantly made the most well-behaved dough--no
> stickiness at all. Unfortunately it resulted in a totally
> pedestrian bread.
<snip>
> I will try using a whisk to make a smooth batter when first introducing
> the dry ingredient mixture to the water. The color is a good, a sort
> of reddish oak color. I will make the bread again today and put the
> additional water back and see how that changes things. It should
> loosen up the crumb. Janet
I think I'd cut back on the malt, increase the salt again, and leave the
water at it's cut down level.
Salt helps bread taste and moderates the speed of fermentation.
More water speeds fermentation also.... less makes a denser dough,
and often a more manageable dough. Though that may not produce
the results you want....
Too much diastatic malt can lead to some unpleasant tastes and
breakdown of gluten from what I hear.
Mike
--
Mike Avery
MAv...@mail.otherwhen.com
ICQ: 16241692 AOL IM:MAvery81230
Phone: 970-642-0280
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Once seen on road signs all over the United States:
Fire! Fire!
Keep cool
Be brave
Just grab
Your pants and
Burma-Shave
Mike Avery
one. I call it "Gunnison River Bread" after both a local river and the
bread in the "Bread of Three Rivers" a mostly enjoyable book.
I use GM's All Trumps, an unusual flour in that on the east coast it's
bleached and bromated, on the west it is neither. I use the west coast
version and it gives plain breads a wonderful creamy yellow color, as
well as a marvelous taste. We surveyed our customers and one
opined that Gunnison River Bread was the best bread he'd ever eaten.
(While I like the bread, I think he needs to get out more.)
In any case, if you can't get the cleaner all-trumps, I suggest an
unbleached, unbromated bread flour.
Gunnison River Bread
Start by making a poolish:
Grams Ingredient
370 Flour
370 Water
0.73 Yeast
Mix until well incorporated.
Ferment 12 hours at room temperature, 75F.
The next day make an autolyse by mixing:
260 Grams Flour
160 Grams Water
and allowing it to sit for 30 minutes.
Final Dough
Grams Ingredient
530 Flour
23.4 Salt
1.95 Yeast
150 Water (most of the water is from the poolish and autolyse)
730 Poolish (from above)
420 Autolyse (also from above)
Dough hydration 66%
Instructions:
Combine ingredients,
Knead 5 – 10 min
First fermentation 2 hours
Scale into two loaves of around
900 grams
Square loaves
Let rest 30 minutes
Perform final shaping of loaves. Makes a killer boule or batard, also
great as a pan bread.
Final proof 1 hour 15 minutes
Slash loaves
Bake 30 minutes at 470F
Steam oven, mist loaves when the bread goes in the oven.
You may retard the loaves after they have been formed into their final
shape.
Enjoy!
Mike
--
Mike Avery
MAv...@mail.otherwhen.com
ICQ: 16241692 AOL IM:MAvery81230
Phone: 970-642-0280
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A Randomly Selected Thought For The Day:
You never know who is right, but you always know who is in charge.
barry
the east coast in just about any permutation of bleaching, bromating,
malting, enrichment you want. The web site seems to indicate that the
western variety is, in fact, more limited.
Barry
barry
How do you think GM's Harvest King would work? It's unbleached, bromated
and 12+% versus AT's 14%.
Barry
"Mike Avery" <mav...@mail.otherwhen.com> wrote in message
news:mailman.6.1080425518....@mail.otherwhen.com...
Gunnison River Bread
Dough hydration 66%
Instructions:
Combine ingredients,
Knead 5 - 10 min
Roy Basan
> I know you are supposed to make only one change at a time, but I am running
> out of recreational bread making time. I made the dough for the bread
> (referred to previously in thread "Flying Crust") late yesterday afternoon.
> I made the following changes: I cut the water back by one quarter cup, cut
> from 1.5 teaspoons to one tablespoon.
Previously the salt content was around 2-2,2% .The former value if the
based on 3 pounds of flour and the latter if based on flour you
measured in cups.
Now if you reduce the salt drastically to half the quantity ; i.e,
from 29-30 grams or roughly and ounce which is equivalent to 2
tablespoon to 1 tablespoon( about 15 grams). Therefore the salt level
is around 1-1,1% level. Very low for milk based bread..It is expected
that it will have a poor taste. That will dramatically affect the
entire bread flavor and taste. It will likely result in a distinct
yeasty taste also. As considerably reduced salt will tend to speed
fermentation rate and that is one cause of bubble formation during
baking.
.For milky type bread the salt level should be not lesser than 1.5%(
or 1-1/2 tablespoon =3/4 of an ounce.) and the extreme not higher
than 2%( or roughly the same as what you did previously.
The well used salt level for such type of bread is 1.7 to 1.8%( or
about 4/5 of an ounce)..
If the dough is not sticky it means partly that the flour was
deficient in amylase activity and your doubling of the malt dosage is
really needed.
But one concerns me is if the salt level was low should have pale
crust colour.
You indicated that the crumb grain was close or fine grained( to your
chagrin) as you are looking for the typical irregular crumb structure
of your bread.
BTW how about testing the recipe at 1.7% salt,2 teaspoon malt, 200
minute bulk fermentation, 64% hydration?
Your original recipe calls for 67% hydration. The salt ad malt are
already known.
> These changes instantly made the most well-behaved dough--no stickiness at
> all. Unfortunately it resulted in a totally pedestrian bread.
Then it looks like the common bread in hot bread shops which many
people find tasteless.
Although
> the dough doubled in the tins, the crumb is small celled with an unpleasant
ÿ smell and aftertaste of yeast.
This has to do with changes of the fermentation rate due to low salt (
resulting in faster yeast activity ). Reminds me of the soft, white
dinner rolls
> you get with Christmas dinner. Yuk. When I removed the loaves from the
> refrigerator they were not domed as usual but did have decent oven spring. The color is a
> good, a sort of reddish oak color.
> The resulting loaves were free of shelling, but there appears to be some
> small bubbles the size of peas and maybe marbles under the crust. These
> bubbles are separate and different from the tiny blisters that result from
> overnight refrigeration. They are no doubt a result of the few snappish gas
> bubbles that I encountered in the fermented and rounded up dough--don't know
> what causes this. I will try using a whisk to make a smooth batter when
> first introducing the dry ingredient mixture to the water. I will make the bread again today and
> put the additional water back and see how that changes things. It should
> loosen up the crumb.
> Janet
I doubt if using whisk will remove the so called pea size holes under
the crust.
How about flattening the scaled and rested dough with rolling pin
before moulding properly into a loaf form.
Did you simultaneously made changes in the fermentation timing also.?
Roy
Felix Karpfen
>I've gotten so many good recipes from this group, I thought I'd share
SNIP
>
>Gunnison River Bread
>
>Start by making a poolish:
>Grams Ingredient
>370 Flour
>370 Water
>0.73 Yeast*****
SNIP
How do you weigh out 0.73 gm yeast?
Felix Karpfen
--
Felix Karpfen
Public Key 72FDF9DF (DH/DSA)
Mike Avery
> * "Mike Avery" <mav...@mail.otherwhen.com>
> >Gunnison River Bread
> >
> >Start by making a poolish:
> >Grams Ingredient
> >370 Flour
> >370 Water
> >0.73 Yeast*****
> SNIP
> How do you weigh out 0.73 gm yeast?
Carefully.
A while back I bought a nice set of scales on ebay, they are accurate
to the nearest .1 gram. I round to the nearest .1 gram. So, I measure
.7 grams in this case.
Incidentally, I don't know if I mentioned it, but I use fresh, or
compressed, yeast rather than active dry or instant yeast.
Mike
--
Mike Avery
MAv...@mail.otherwhen.com
ICQ: 16241692 AOL IM:MAvery81230
Phone: 970-642-0280
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A Randomly Selected Thought For The Day:
Does "MicroSoft" mean "small and limp"?
Jiminy
<mav...@mail.otherwhen.com> wrote:
>> How do you weigh out 0.73 gm yeast?
>
>Carefully.
>
>A while back I bought a nice set of scales on ebay, they are accurate
>to the nearest .1 gram. I round to the nearest .1 gram. So, I measure
>.7 grams in this case.
do you know how "much" is 0.7 g ?
best,
Jiminy
EJM
<webp...@libero.it> wrote:
Oooh, Jiminy, I love fishing trips...
The short answer to your question:
Hardly any.
The long answer to your question:
In "Artisan Baking Across America", Maggie Glezer says for every 150gm
(5.3oz, 1 cup) of flour in the recipe to use either of:
3 gm compressed fresh yeast (0.1 oz, 1/6 cake)
2 gm active dry yeast (0.05oz, 1/2 tsp)
1 gm instant dry yeast (0.04oz, 3/8 tsp)
I find Ms.Glezer's grams to ounces to be a tiny bit off and have used the
following equivalence for the following calculations:
1 gram = 0.0353 oz.
Judging from that, .7 gm compressed fresh yeast would be... excuse me
while I rummage in the drawer to get out my calculator...
0.025 oz, 4/100 cake, (you'll need a good sharp knife in order to get only
that amount) compressed fresh yeast
and that would be equivalent to
.47gm active dry yeast (0.016oz, 0.763 of a pinch)
.23gm instant dry yeast (0.008oz, 0.373 of a pinch)
I got the pinch equivalents from
http://www.gourmetsleuth.com/conversions.htm
--
emorris aka llizard
llizard (a+) idirec+ (do+) ca
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
please note that the yahoo address is rarely checked except to delete spam
barry
solution," if you need .73 grams of yeast, why not just take 92.7 grams of
flour, mix in 7.3 grams of yeast, and then use 10 grams of the resulting mix
as part of the four? True, this will get you a bit light on the flour (0.73
grams, to be precise) but you can compensate by getting flour on your hands
and then dusting them off over the bowl.
Barry
"EJM" <lliza...@yahoo.invalid> wrote in message
news:d0607094k9v3lsoap...@4ax.com...
Wm. J. Rentenbach
Bill
"barry" <john...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:wnYbc.22898$dp2.6...@news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net...
Mike Avery
Very little, but more than you might think.
When commercial yeast became available, commercial bakers
liked it's predictability compared to sourdoughs, and liked the fact
they didn't have to nurse a culture.
However, they didn't like having to pay SAF, Fleischman, et al
every time they baked. And they missed some of the depth of
flavor a sourdough culture provides.
So, a number of techniques were developed to use less yeast, and
to increase the fermentation time. One technique was the poolish,
invented by Polish bakers.
A batter - it's too wet to be a dough - of 100% hydration is usually
used, and about .2% yeast is added. It's allowed to work overnight,
allowing the yeast to multiply, and taste to develop. The next day,
the poolish is used to make a dough, and the amount of yeast used
in the dough is also quite low - around .4%, compared to the more
usual 3% or so level. So, the bakers got what they wanted - they
bought less yeast, and they got better flavor....
When you mix 10 or 20 or 100 loaves, the amount of yeast in the
poolish isn't quite so nasty to measure....
Good luck,
Mike
--
Mike Avery
MAv...@mail.otherwhen.com
ICQ: 16241692 AOL IM:MAvery81230
Phone: 970-642-0280
* Spam is for lusers who can't get business any other
way *
A Randomly Selected Thought For The Day:
Dictatorship (n): a form of government under which everything
which is not prohibited is compulsory.
barry
I'm surprised no one picked up on the allusion to Sherlock Holmes and his
supposed propensity to indulge in a bit of mood-alteration from time to
time.
Barry
"Wm. J. Rentenbach" <b...@t-one.net> wrote in message
news:9uudnT5FWoN...@t-one.net...
Static I
>Date: 4/4/2004 10:56 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <mailman.11.1081137372...@mail.otherwhen
>However, they didn't like having to pay SAF, Fleischman, et al
>every time they baked. And they missed some of the depth of
>flavor a sourdough culture provides.
For a home baker, then, not worried about spending for yeast, is their some
reason not to reduce labor (and mess) by eliminating the starter altogether?
Why not mix, need, and rise the entire dough, and then refrigerate?.Next day,
all there'd be to do would be shaping, final rise, and bake.
Or do you think something taste or texture-wise would be lost?
Also, if your history is correct (and I've no reason to doubt it) why do we use
a French term here for what could simply and accurately be called a Polish
Starter?
Dick Margulis
respond ;-)
Janet Bostwick
"Static I" <sta...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040405034827...@mb-m14.aol.com...
> For a home baker, then, not worried about spending for yeast, is their
some
> reason not to reduce labor (and mess) by eliminating the starter
altogether?
> Why not mix, need, and rise the entire dough, and then refrigerate?.Next
day,
> all there'd be to do would be shaping, final rise, and bake.
>
> Or do you think something taste or texture-wise would be lost?
>
> Also, if your history is correct (and I've no reason to doubt it) why do
we use
> a French term here for what could simply and accurately be called a Polish
> Starter?
Trouble maker ;o}
Static I
>Date: 4/5/2004 4:07 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <1073ik5...@corp.supernews.com>
French/English dictionary though, and it has Pologne for Poland, and (as all
cooks know) Polonais for Polish - but not a Poolish in sight. Wouldn't this be
someone from Pooland, anyway?
I'd hate to think what THAT starter might look like.
Felix Karpfen
>I think we need a French speaker to make sense of all of this.
snip
>
>I'd hate to think what THAT starter might look like.
In France, it would look like a frisky horse (pouliche=filly).
Static I
>Date: 4/7/2004 3:40 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <c51ovp$2lhs3g$1...@ID-125903.news.uni-berlin.de>
>
>* sta...@aol.com (Static I)
>
>>I think we need a French speaker to make sense of all of this.
>
>snip
>>
>>I'd hate to think what THAT starter might look like.
>
>In France, it would look like a frisky horse (pouliche=filly).
>
So these Poliush bakers were women - and maybe a little frisky?