Re: how to sequence cooking a large batch of bread....
Dee Randall
"mustangsally" <mustan...@nym.hush.com> wrote in message
news:70p4b0F...@mid.individual.net...
> i've been perfecting my ``signature loaf'' if you will---which is
> basically
> a 62.5% to 75% hydration dough (based on how the dough feels to me. i'm
> trying to work toward a higher hydration dough). i shape it in a boule.
>
> the most i've ever made at one time is 2 loaves, which can be baked in the
> oven simultaneously. i'd like to make 5 loaves. obviously, they won't all
> fit in my oven at one time.
>
> does anyone have any hints/suggestions for handling this? obviously as the
> loaves take between 40 and 50 minutes to cook, it's probably not wise to
> leave the remaining loaves bench proofing, as that extra time will likely
> cause them to over-proof. it's probably not a good idea to put them into
> the
> fridge to retard, because i'll likely need more time than i have to warm
> them back up to room temperature.
>
> am i simply relegated to two loaf batches in my consumer-grade kitchen?
>
> thanks for any input...
>
> --Sal
Everything I've seen in print, it tells one to put the extra raising loaves
into the refrigerator to stop the fermentaiton while you are baking the
first two. The way I figure is this:
It takes me an hour to heat my stone for about an hour. I'm baking the
first set of loaves for abt. 40-50 minutes, If I put the other "almost"
raised, "partially" raised, or "what percentage" raised loaves into the
refrigerator at the time I put the loaves into the oven, then I will be
required in "HOW MANY MINUTES?" within that 40-50 minutes range to take
it out of the refrigerator to warm them up and then complete the
fermentation -- all the time the oven is still heating away. Now that's
pretty darned tricky footwork. For some reason, I think that oven's gonna
be waiting on those-thar 2nd batch of loaves to warm up and complete their
fermentation.
Hey, Sal - I can't figure it out, but I'm sure waiting to hear some good
answers.
Dee Dee
Barry Harmon
news:go7nf2$h8s$1...@news.motzarella.org:
The way I do it is:
Ferment the dough in a large pot.
Take out what I need for the first batch and fold the rest of the dough
put it back into the pot. Cover the pot.
Make the first batch. I know what the approximate time is from setting
to rise to finished baking, and I know what the baking time is.
I start shaping etc. the second batch after the first batch has been in
the process for the amount of time that baking takes.
If the baking time is 45 minutes, I start shaping the second batch 45
minutes after starting the first batch.
This process has worked for me for two batches, but I haven't tried it
for three lengthy batches.
Barry
Dick Margulis
> in <go7nf2$h8s$1...@news.motzarella.org> (Thu, 26 Feb 2009 22:42:07 -0500), Dee Randall wrote:
> |
> | Hey, Sal - I can't figure it out, but I'm sure waiting to hear some good
> | answers.
>
> overwhelmed.
>
> but thanks for your input. perhaps retarding in the fridge will not be a
> mortal sin. i'll try and document my procedures with pictures and
> commentary...
Okay, there's this, which I learned only recently, in a discussion about
programmable home thermostats. Here are the question and answer about
the thermostats (bear with me).
Q: Do you actually save energy by lowering your house temperature during
the day, given that your furnace then has to run longer to warm it up in
the evening?
A: It takes less energy to keep a house steady at 62 than to keep it
steady at 68 [because there's less differential with the outside and
therefore less heat loss, I guess]. And [wait for it, here's the
interesting bit] the energy required to raise the temperature from 62 to
68 is the same as the energy gained by allowing it to drop from 68 to 62.
Okay, what does this tell us about your dough? I _think_ (somebody
correct me if I'm off base here) it means that the time it takes for
your dough's temp to drop in the fridge from room temp to some lower
temp X is the same as the time it takes to come back up from X to room
temp when you take it out of the fridge.
Now that's only approximate, because fermentation is exothermic and the
dough doesn't stop rising when you put it into the fridge. It just slows
down. And when you bring it out, it just speeds up. But for a rough
calculation, let's do this:
0 hour. You've formed all the loaves. You start preheating the oven. Put
three formed loaves in fridge. Keep two (first batch) out on the bench.
45 minutes. Take two loaves out of fridge.
1 hour. First batch is proofed and ready to bake. (Obviously this is
approximate.)
1 hour 15 minutes. Take last loaf out of fridge.
1 hour 30 minutes. Second batch is back up to room temp and rising.
1 hour 50 minutes. First batch comes out.
2 hours (approximately). Second batch goes in.
2 hours 30 minutes. Last loaf is back up to room temp and rising.
2 hours 50 minutes. Second batch comes out.
3 hours (approximately). Final loaf goes in.
Okay, that's a first cut approximation. Try it and see how much you have
to adjust it for the second attempt.
Dee Randall
"Barry Harmon" <john...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9BBEEDA82F34Ejo...@209.197.15.254...
To put your explanation of sequence, let me see if I understand it for my
case; 4 loaves will be my limit. Case scenario:
1. Enough dough for 4 loaves of bread are in my pot. They have proofed for
1-1/2 hours; having been stretched and folded at 45 minutes.
2. I take out enough dough for 2 loaves, shape those 2 loaves, let them
sit for 45-50 minutes to rise (the amount of time that baking is needed).
3. At the culmination of proofing time for the first 2 loaves @ 45-50
minutes, I put the first two loaves in the oven. I take out the last
one-half of dough that is in the pot to rise while the first two loaves of
bread are baking.
4. Thusly, the last half of the dough sitting in the pot will have been
there for roughly 2 hours 15 minutes, and is still OK. Have you ever had to
do anything to fix a problem created by it sitting there that length of
time? Or would there be a problem created by sitting there if you let it go
to 3 hours? Hmmm :-)))
This all sounds good to me. Thanks.
Dee Dee
Mike Pearce
"Barry Harmon" wrote in message
news:Xns9BBEEDA82F34Ejo...@209.197.15.254...
>> "mustangsally" wrote:
>>> does anyone have any hints/suggestions for handling this?
>>> obviously
>>> as the loaves take between 40 and 50 minutes to cook, it's
>>> probably
>>> not wise to leave the remaining loaves bench proofing, as that
>>> extra
>>> time will likely cause them to over-proof. it's probably not a
>>> good
>>> idea to put them into the
>>> fridge to retard, because i'll likely need more time than i have
>>> to
>>> warm them back up to room temperature.
> The way I do it is:
>
> Ferment the dough in a large pot.
>
> Take out what I need for the first batch and fold the rest of the
> dough
> put it back into the pot. Cover the pot.
>
> Make the first batch. I know what the approximate time is from
> setting
> to rise to finished baking, and I know what the baking time is.
>
> I start shaping etc. the second batch after the first batch has been
> in
> the process for the amount of time that baking takes.
>
> If the baking time is 45 minutes, I start shaping the second batch
> 45
> minutes after starting the first batch.
This is exactly what I do. There will be a difference between the
earlier and later loaves but much less of a difference than any other
method I've tried. It's also a lot simpler than trying to figure out
temperatures and moving rising loaves in and out of the refrigerator.
-Mike
Barry Harmon
Think of it this way.
You want to have the second batch lagging behind the first batch by the
baking time. It's really that simple.
I've done this a lot, since I frequently bake large batches, and I've
never had a problem. Where I might get into trouble is on a humungus
batch, one that took three oven loads to bake, especially if each batch
baked for an hour or more.
I made an 8 pound rye once. If I had baked that as smaller loaves, I
might have had this problem. In that case, I'd probably fold the dough
a time or two and cross my fingers. I think that using the refrigerator
would introduce another factor into the process, one that I'd have to
compensate for.
Having said that, I do use the refrigerator for bagels, but the bagel
dough is already in the refrigerator,having been there overnight, so
that's already in the process.
Dough is really pretty forgiving and timing is flexible up to a point.
Barry
Dee Randall
"Mike Pearce" <mpearce...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:r%Tpl.42019$rb1....@newsfe02.iad...
Thanks, Mike.
I hardly ever have any room in my refrigerator (a big Sub-Zero) and I have
another refrigerator for storage. Lordy, who has room? Not me. I've done
it, but had to plan ahead.
Dee Dee, who's always happy when the refrigerators are full-up.
KingOfGlop
> i've been perfecting my ``signature loaf'' if you will---which is basically
> a 62.5% to 75% hydration dough (based on how the dough feels to me. i'm
> trying to work toward a higher hydration dough). i shape it in a boule.
>
> the most i've ever made at one time is 2 loaves, which can be baked in the
> oven simultaneously. i'd like to make 5 loaves. obviously, they won't all
> fit in my oven at one time.
>
> loaves take between 40 and 50 minutes to cook, it's probably not wise to
> leave the remaining loaves bench proofing, as that extra time will likely
> cause them to over-proof. it's probably not a good idea to put them into the
> fridge to retard, because i'll likely need more time than i have to warm
> them back up to room temperature.
>
>
> thanks for any input...
>
> --Sal
You have 5 loaves and an oven capacity of 2 loaves
The baking takes 50 minutes so add 10 mins for the oven and stone to
regain temperature and bake on an hourly cycle.
Don't bother with refrigeration, it has its uses but this IMHO is not
one of them. So, when the batch has risen enough for shaping and
proof, take enough for 2 loaves, shape, leave to proof and perform
your usual oven and stone heating rituals.
1 hour later shape 2 more loaves
Another hour later shape the final loaf.
Bake each set of loaves at 1 hour intervals, starting when the first
to proof is ready to bake.
Nothing complicated about that at all!
Yes, there will be slight variation between the first and last loaves
to be baked but not enought cause concern to any but the most
fanatical of bakers.
Love
John
ZerkonXXXX
> am i simply relegated to two loaf batches in my consumer-grade kitchen?
>
> thanks for any input...
For many years I baked off 20-30 loaves daily in a consumer grade
kitchen, four loaves at a time. They then went up the street for sale, so
the 'sale' part was the most important aspect here.
After the first year or so I abandoned the timing concern. I put the
first in (20 min ea.) a nudge young and the last would be just a little
old but hardly made a difference in final look. I use Hi Gluten flour
which, among other things, is extremely forgiving. Also typically each
batch would be cold retarded for 30-48 hours then the entire out of the
frig 'proof' stage would last almost an entire day. Slow, good..
For timing, what I found most valuable is blocking or preforming the
loaves. A good idea no matter what because this eliminates a lot of
handling at the final form stage. Anyway, you can simply let the blocked
loves sit while the others bake off then make them up as timing dictates.