Soya & Linseed Recipe Wanted
Pinot Grigio
is a low GI bread. The ingredients can be seen here:
http://www.burgen.co.uk/our_products/sandl.html
I am a bit of a lazy cook so preferably for a bread machine. (ZO BBCC-V20)
Thanks.
Dick Margulis
You've got all the information you need right in front of you. Are you
requesting that someone else do the math?
Pinot Grigio
"Dick Margulis" <marg...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:12bidak...@news.supernews.com...
How on earth can you work out a recipe from that when different flours and
ingredients absorb liquid at a different rate and I wouldn't use half the
ingredients such as wheat protein, emulsifiers, etc.
Dick Margulis
Okay, let's walk through it.
Here is the ingredient list:
Soya (13%) and Linseed (12%) Bread.
Wheat flour, Water, Linseed, Soya Flour,
Cracked Wheat, Toasted Kibbled Soya,
Wheat Protein, Vegetable Oil and
Vegetable Fat, Yeast, Sugar,
Salt, Calcium Carbonate,
Vinegar, Emulsifiers: E471,
E472e, Flour Treatment Agent:
Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C).
Let's disregard the last two additives, as they have more to do with
industrial breadmaking than with home breadmaking.
Calcium carbonate and vinegar, while they are handy household chemicals,
are used in small quantities here to feed the yeast (or perhaps just as
a nutritional supplement) and to buffer the dough pH, respectively.
Unless you end up having some specific problems, I think we can
disregard those, too.
So let's assume that in the UK, as in the US, ingredients are listed
pretty much in order by weight, with anything lower than 2% grouped at
the bottom in no particular order. And let's further assume 2% salt, as
I don't see anything on the Web page that says "reduced sodium."
Okay, what do we know so far?
Wheat flour 100% (strongest flour you can conveniently
get)
Water X% (need to work this out)
Defatted soy flour 13%
Flax seed 12% (ground? You can tell by looking at
the bread; I don't know from where
I sit)
Cracked wheat 2% (optional crunchies--soak or cook first?)
Toasted kibbled soya 2% (optional crunchies--soak or cook first?)
Gluten flour 2% (also called vital wheat gluten)
Vegetable oil and
vegetable fat 2% (this seems to be what they're doing
but you may find you want a bit more)
Yeast 2%
Sugar 2%
Salt 2%
I think you would want to start with the water at about 70% or so,
depending on whether you cook/soak the cracked wheat and toasted soybean
bits. All I can suggest is that this is a starting point and you will
have to engage in some trial and error. If you have an opportunity to
peek at the dough during the cycle, you should be able to adjust the
water in a few tries. I agree with you that, with all those absorbent
flours, you're likely to need more rather than less water.
As to the actual amounts to scale for your particular machine, I leave
that as an exercise for the reader.
Maybe this gets you a little closer than you were before.
Good luck,
Pinot Grigio
LOL. Thanks Dick.
I will give it a try.
What I haven't looked into yet is soya flour and how it works with bread
making.
I suppose I should have just asked for any low GI recipes!
Slim Langer
sourdough breads. Extra-sugars aren't usually added, and the long rises
with the vigorous cultures use up most of the free sugar in the dough.
This complements the use of some soy flour, since it will add color to
the normally pale sourdough loaves.
I have a recipe I made yesterday that uses soy flour, flax, whole
grains and sourdough. But while relatively easy and fun to make, it is
not for a bread machine. Counting the olive oil with the water,
hydration was about 66%. I use whole soy flour, from just running soy
beans through a grain mill, and find they generally make a dough more
sticky and wet, as opposed to fresh whole wheat that will absorb more
water in a dough.
Slim
Pinot Grigio
"Slim Langer" <slim_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1153072854....@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> For low glycemic index bread, you should consider making whole-grain,
> sourdough breads. Extra-sugars aren't usually added, and the long rises
> with the vigorous cultures use up most of the free sugar in the dough.
> This complements the use of some soy flour, since it will add color to
> the normally pale sourdough loaves.
>
> I have a recipe I made yesterday that uses soy flour, flax, whole
> grains and sourdough. But while relatively easy and fun to make, it is
> not for a bread machine. Counting the olive oil with the water,
> hydration was about 66%. I use whole soy flour, from just running soy
> beans through a grain mill, and find they generally make a dough more
> sticky and wet, as opposed to fresh whole wheat that will absorb more
> water in a dough.
>
> Slim
Would you like to post your recipe please? I might just have a go at making
it properly! I have bought ready ground soy(a) flour and have flax seed.
What whole grains are soft when cooked? I avoid bought whole-grain bread
having split a tooth or filling twice now!
I normally only make wholewheat (if it has time to cook before I want it) or
basic white bread. I tried adding seeds a couple of times but they don't
mix into the dough, just stick on the outside so don't bother any more. But
now we have to change to low GI for my other half so have been buying bread
recently and I would really like to make our own again.
Slim Langer
> Would you like to post your recipe please? I might just have a go at making
> it properly! I have bought ready ground soy(a) flour and have flax seed.
> What whole grains are soft when cooked? I avoid bought whole-grain bread
> having split a tooth or filling twice now!
> I normally only make wholewheat (if it has time to cook before I want it) or
> basic white bread. I tried adding seeds a couple of times but they don't
> mix into the dough, just stick on the outside so don't bother any more. But
> now we have to change to low GI for my other half so have been buying bread
> recently and I would really like to make our own again.
Okay Monsieur Pinot, this may not be your cup of wine, ;)
But this has been evolving into one of my daily breads. It has soy,
flax, and whole grains but is very high rising, and has a lot of
flavor. It is low glycemic, particularly because it has no added sugar
and is a long rise sourdough. If you are unacquainted with sourdough,
you could use a yeast preferment and addition of yeast to the main
dough. But I think this would be a detriment to the flavor and I've
never made the bread that way myself.
I get whole wheat flour, whole rye flour, and soy flour from running
whole wheat berries, whole rye berries and dried whole soy beans
through a small home grain mill. On the fine setting this never results
in anything to affect the teeth. Soy flour is not defatted soy and
should be used best right after milling. Stored soy flour gets to be
bitter quickly from the oil present, but may be less so when used in a
pre-ferment.
The only thing that should give you pause for your dental work is the
whole or cracked rye berries. Rye berries that I have are firm but soft
and give a chewy-meaty texture and flavor to the bread. I mix the
sesame seeds and the flax seeds whole with the flour, but these could
be ground in a spice mill or possibly a blender to better incorporate
them into your dough. A lot of the flavor of the bread comes from the
sesame, flax and the rye.
Preferment 1:
Mix with a spoon:
20 grams sourdough starter (active or from the fridge used a few days
before)
40 grams water
40 grams fresh whole rye flour (you can use whole wheat flour or any
kind really)
Let develop warm (80F/27C) for 10 - 12 hours in a covered bowl or
loosely covered container. Remember to feed the starter and return
separately to the fridge.
Preferment 2:
All of Preferment 1 (100g; I just use the same container and add)
40 grams whole soy flour
80 grams whole wheat flour
120 grams water
Mix with a spoon. Let develop warm (80F/27C) for 6 - 8 hours; can be
refrigerated and used within 2-3 days.
Dough:
All of Preferment 2 (340g)
30 g olive oil
295g water
(Mix liquid with a spoon in preferment container so you can simply pour
out the starter cleanly into the mixing bowl.)
522g white wheat bread flour
58g whole wheat bread flour
15g salt
30g sesame seeds
40g flax seeds
50g whole or cracked rye berries
(sesame flax and rye may be ground and/or toasted)
Mix and Knead by hand or machine:
Let rise 1-2 hours. Stretch, fold, rest and shape the dough. 3 pounds
makes 2 loaves.
Let rise 3-4 hours. Bake free-form or in pans. 55min @ 400 F (200 C) or
on a baking stone with steam.
Good Luck. Any questions ask.
Slim
Angie
Ok, Madame Pinot here. I will post as me from now on. Thanks for the above
recipe.
You have got me thinking! I have been looking at flour mills, starters,
previous posts and started reading the FAQ.
I have never thought of milling my own flour. For now, I will used ready
milled but I am going to the US later this year and might bring one back.
There doesn't seem to be a great choice here in the UK and they are more
expensive. e.g. The Wondermill:
http://www.grainmills.net/cart.asp £245
http://www.nutritionlifestyles.com/wondermill.htm $219.95
Are we ripped off or what! I will look into whole grains and grain mills in
a few months time before deciding if I want one. I only had a quick look at
whole grains on one site and they seemed a bit pricey. Anything like
non-wheat flour, grains, beans etc. found in local health food shops mostly
seem to be old and supermarkets don't have a great choice of the more
unusual items.
Also thought I would look at the videos at
http://www.pbs.org/juliachild/video.html . But, I can't get past the screen
that says "Video Search, Choose your setting". The Sourdough Starter would
have been interesting.
Anyway I will get some rye flour, and have a go at making a starter. Then I
will try your recipe. I think I would like to substitute something for the
rye berries though.
Slim Langer
>
> Ok, Madame Pinot here. I will post as me from now on. Thanks for the above
> recipe.
> You have got me thinking! I have been looking at flour mills, starters,
> previous posts and started reading the FAQ.
>
Hi Angie,
You're welcome. Admittedly sourdough baking, wholegrains and milling
your own flour are big steps, probably best taken one at a time. A good
and reasonably inexpensive first one could be to make a bread machine
recipe with soy and flax as Dick Margulis outlined before and as you
first requested. Then you can see if you want to get in any deeper. If
you need more help, let me know.
> I have never thought of milling my own flour. For now, I will used ready
> milled but I am going to the US later this year and might bring one back.
> There doesn't seem to be a great choice here in the UK and they are more
> expensive. e.g. The Wondermill:
> http://www.grainmills.net/cart.asp £245
> http://www.nutritionlifestyles.com/wondermill.htm $219.95
> Are we ripped off or what!
I had a look on the UK Ebay for some used grain mills and there was
next to nothing! The German Ebay had much more.
http://search.ebay.de/getreidemuehle
The wondermill or the nutrimill are both really good machines,and you
do get a great exhange rate for the pound to the dollar. I'm sure you
realize that if you do buy one in the US, you need to be sure the
merchant gets you a 220 volt version to run in the UK. If you have a
friendly local baker, or perhaps a farm co-op, they could be a source
of bulk grain. For me this is much less expensive than buying small
quantities of the ready milled flour. While the milled flour is
perishable, the whole grains stored dry will last almost forever.
> Also thought I would look at the videos at
> http://www.pbs.org/juliachild/video.html . But, I can't get past the screen
> that says "Video Search, Choose your setting". The Sourdough Starter would
> have been interesting.
>
> Anyway I will get some rye flour, and have a go at making a starter. Then I
> will try your recipe.
You can make a really great sourdough starter with just rye flour. It
tells you how to do so here (with pictures!) and how to bake with it:
http://samartha.net/SD/MakeStarter01.html
Also there may be some UK members on this newsgroup who can send you
some starter.
And this site is a whole newsgroup dedicated to sourdough baking:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.food.sourdough also with some UK
members and advice. Like everywhere, some have better manners than
others. ;)
Slim
Angie
http://samartha.net/SD/MakeStarter01.html
Slim
Hi Slim,
Your post doesn't seem to be indenting. Don't know why.
I am going to try Dick's suggestions as I need a quick bread machine version
so Dick, you didn't waste your time with your replies. We only eat one loaf
a week, most of it frozen and used as toast. But as my husband now doesn't
seem to be able to eat the bread I have been making, I have got to try and
make it lower-GI and your recipe seems to open new possibilities and no
added sugar.
I started making our own bread when we discovered he was allergic to milk
and now he is diabetic. Being basically lazy I decided to try a bread
machine. But I wanted a horizontal loaf and twin paddles that were not
available in the UK then. (Panasonic now do one). So when we went to the
US, my cousin ordered a Zojirushi BBCC-V20 for me and I brought that back.
It cost me $140. Zo did a vertical loaf 240 volt model that is/was
available here at about £350. I don't have to worry about voltage as I have
a transformer and have brought a few things back now. One being a
mini-chopper/grinder that I couldn't find here - US $24, saw one here last
year £59. I do like buying things in the US. There is so much more choice
and things are generally a lot cheaper. Haven't had a problem with anything
yet luckily and managed to get some replacement paddles from Japan ok.
I found the samartha.net starter link from a previous post and was wondering
if that was a good place to start. I have lurked here occasionally and know
that starters have been discussed many times although I have more or less
ignored them as I haven't really been interested until now. One thing I
don't know that is probably answered somewhere and is also probably a stupid
question because of the (sour?) nature of a starter, but ... are all
starters rye starters and do they only make sourdough?
Angie.
Slim Langer
>
> I found the samartha.net starter link from a previous post and was wondering
> if that was a good place to start. I have lurked here occasionally and know
> that starters have been discussed many times although I have more or less
> ignored them as I haven't really been interested until now. One thing I
> don't know that is probably answered somewhere and is also probably a stupid
> question because of the (sour?) nature of a starter, but ... are all
> starters rye starters and do they only make sourdough?
>
> Angie.
Hi Angie,
The Samartha site is very good, and you can write him on the
rec.food.sourdough board. If you follow his procedure, you will get a
useable starter, many have done so. Not all starters are from rye, you
could use other grains, or just plain wheat flour with his procedure
and get a starter that would do a good job raising bread in just a few
days. Eventually as you feed it, the starter becomes sour. The thing
about rye is that it is an good source of lactobacillus and so usually
becomes sour fairly quickly. You can make pancakes and pita bread, even
chocolate cake with the starter. There are ways of controlling how sour
the product is, usually by how long you let it rise. Most new starters
disappoint people by making bread that is not very sour at all.
Slim
PandS58
Have a look at the following if no one else has mentioned it yet. The
whole variety 6-pack are good.