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Daniel Leader's Classic Auvergne Dark Rye
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graham
May 17, 2015, 12:40:20 PM5/17/15
to
Classic Auvergne Dark Rye
I have been trying to make the rye loaf on page 158 in “Local Breads” by
Daniel Leader. The recipe and instructions don’t make sense. For
example, the final hydration is only 53% and he describes it as a slack,
sticky dough!
It isn’t!!! It’s dry and leaden!!! I’ve added extra water to the final
dough but it still looks unpromising and although it is fermenting, I
expect I’ll cut my losses and ditch it.
Graham
Summary of Recipe
Rye starter
45g stiff levain
100g rye flour
100g tepid water
Mix and leave 8-12 hours. Note that it makes 145g but although his
instructions imply that you use it all, the dough recipe itself uses 125g.
Dough
125g Rye starter
350g Hot tap water
500g Rye flour
200g High gluten bread flour
20g salt
Add the water to the starter and break up; add the rye flour and mix.
Leave for 1-1.25 hours.
Add the bread flour and salt and mix/knead for 7-8 minutes to allow the
gluten to develop.
Ferment for 1-1.25 hours. Shape the loaf and leave *until it spreads*
for 20-30 minutes,.
Bake at 500F for 35-45 minutes.
I have been trying to make the rye loaf on page 158 in “Local Breads” by
Daniel Leader. The recipe and instructions don’t make sense. For
example, the final hydration is only 53% and he describes it as a slack,
sticky dough!
It isn’t!!! It’s dry and leaden!!! I’ve added extra water to the final
dough but it still looks unpromising and although it is fermenting, I
expect I’ll cut my losses and ditch it.
Graham
Summary of Recipe
Rye starter
45g stiff levain
100g rye flour
100g tepid water
Mix and leave 8-12 hours. Note that it makes 145g but although his
instructions imply that you use it all, the dough recipe itself uses 125g.
Dough
125g Rye starter
350g Hot tap water
500g Rye flour
200g High gluten bread flour
20g salt
Add the water to the starter and break up; add the rye flour and mix.
Leave for 1-1.25 hours.
Add the bread flour and salt and mix/knead for 7-8 minutes to allow the
gluten to develop.
Ferment for 1-1.25 hours. Shape the loaf and leave *until it spreads*
for 20-30 minutes,.
Bake at 500F for 35-45 minutes.
Barry Harmon
May 17, 2015, 1:51:39 PM5/17/15
to
One possibility is that you are using a different rye than Leader is using or talking about. The only rye I can get around Central NJ is a stone ground Hodgeson's, which is not a typical fine-ground rye. Maybe the pentosans in Leader's dough are weaker than your pentosans.
Another pososibility is that his dough went to over-proof, which would explain the slackness. This is a long shot.
Another possibility is that the recipe is screwed-up. I've noted several of his recipes that were wildly out of whack, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if this one was wrong. This book is about the most poorly edited / proofed bread book I've ever seen, worse than his "Bread Alone," which itself was almost a mess.
I suggest you do a search for the Leader thread that discusses his recipes and the book and the errors. I found it once and was astonished at the number of recipes that people pegged as faulty. When Leader was told about the errors, his response was, in essence, "So what?"
I'll dig out my copy of "Local Breads" and see if I have any notes on the recipe. I *think* I tried this bread, but that may be a fig newton of my imagination.
Barry
graham
May 17, 2015, 3:27:00 PM5/17/15
to
flour in Canada. Alan Zelt used to pop over the border to buy it.
> Another pososibility is that his dough went to over-proof, which would
>explain the slackness. This is a long shot.
would ever have got to that stage as it would have been such a stiff dough.
> Another possibility is that the recipe is screwed-up. I've noted
>several of his recipes that were wildly out of whack, so it wouldn't
>surprise me at all if this one was wrong. This book is about the most
>poorly edited / proofed bread book I've ever seen, worse than his
>"Bread Alone," which itself was almost a mess.
>
> I suggest you do a search for the Leader thread that discusses his
>recipes and the book and the errors. I found it once and was
>astonished at the number of recipes that people pegged as faulty. When
>Leader was told about the errors, his response was, in essence, "So what?"
immediately, and Richard Bertinet, who replied the next day. Both in
positive terms.
>
> I'll dig out my copy of "Local Breads" and see if I have any notes on the recipe. I *think* I tried this bread, but that may be a fig newton of my imagination.
>
> Barry
>
My first reason for trying this recipe was wanting to use some of the
rye levain that I acquired on the baking course last week. I've fed it
several times and it's one of the most vigorous cultures I've ever fed.
It is far more powerful than my wheat levain, which I thought was very
strong.
The second reason was that I wanted to make a strong rye that was
acceptable to a friend of Ukranian heritage. He has been complimentary
about previous efforts but has always said that they were not quite
right in flavour. Most recipes it seems call for at least 40% wheat
flour and this one is around 25%.
I'll leave it alone for a few days as I have some work from the
beleaguered oil industry to complete.
Also, I want to make another loaf of that Maggie Glezer recipe that I
posted a while back. I bake it using the Lahey method (NOT his mixing
method I might add) and want to show it to the baking instructor next
Saturday. He has never tried that way of baking. He seemed somewhat
contemptuous of Lahey's no-knead method:-)
Incidentally, he said that when he lived with his parents (he was
apprenticed to his father, a baker) they never had fresh bread, only the
stale stuff that hadn't sold:-)
Graham
Barry Harmon
May 17, 2015, 5:44:55 PM5/17/15
to
Graham,
Sounds like it's the recipe; if both you and Alan use and like the dark rye flour, that's good enough for me.
Yeah, Leader has gone commercial big time. He makes great bread in his bakery, but he seems not to care a whit about the books he "writes." When I ws up there lo' those many years ago, he said that the world doesn't need another bread book. I think he's done three since then. Each one is worse than the last as far as accuracy of recipes goes. I admit, there are some recipes in the books trhat work, but one has to be very careful and analyze the things beforehand. As an example, if you had run the numbers before (If you had realized that the published recipes stand a good chance of being wrong, you would have caught the discrepancy between the 54% hydration and the text "slack, sticky." This isn't aslam on yhou, since you had no idea that Leader publishes f***** up recipes.
When I had problems with some of Peter Reinhart's recipes, I sent him an email and he got right back to me with excellent help. Mark him as a good guy.
I've got a close friend who is Ukranian, whose mother was a phenomenal cook. I've baked a lot of Ukranian breads for him, but the one thing I've never been able to bake is a real Ukranian dark rye, since I don't have the flour. I've tried, using coffee and cocao as darkeners and flavorings, but it just isn't right. I've been with him when we've gone to the Ukranian grocery store near where he grew up (Olympia Grocery Store, Irvington, NJ) and the bread and so forth is/are fantastic. If you hit ir right, you may never bake anything else!
I still owe you a look at the recipe in "Local Breads."
Barry
Sounds like it's the recipe; if both you and Alan use and like the dark rye flour, that's good enough for me.
Yeah, Leader has gone commercial big time. He makes great bread in his bakery, but he seems not to care a whit about the books he "writes." When I ws up there lo' those many years ago, he said that the world doesn't need another bread book. I think he's done three since then. Each one is worse than the last as far as accuracy of recipes goes. I admit, there are some recipes in the books trhat work, but one has to be very careful and analyze the things beforehand. As an example, if you had run the numbers before (If you had realized that the published recipes stand a good chance of being wrong, you would have caught the discrepancy between the 54% hydration and the text "slack, sticky." This isn't aslam on yhou, since you had no idea that Leader publishes f***** up recipes.
When I had problems with some of Peter Reinhart's recipes, I sent him an email and he got right back to me with excellent help. Mark him as a good guy.
I've got a close friend who is Ukranian, whose mother was a phenomenal cook. I've baked a lot of Ukranian breads for him, but the one thing I've never been able to bake is a real Ukranian dark rye, since I don't have the flour. I've tried, using coffee and cocao as darkeners and flavorings, but it just isn't right. I've been with him when we've gone to the Ukranian grocery store near where he grew up (Olympia Grocery Store, Irvington, NJ) and the bread and so forth is/are fantastic. If you hit ir right, you may never bake anything else!
I still owe you a look at the recipe in "Local Breads."
Barry
Barry Harmon
May 17, 2015, 6:47:14 PM5/17/15
to
Graham,
Boy! Did you ever pick a *great* recipe! I mobviously tried this thing on at least three occaisions, because I have almost a full page of notes.
11-30-08: Made, but modified.
3-29-11: Made, see cards. (My index cards system, which I'll go get.)
2-7-12: Made with a yeast spike. Too flat.
First thing I note is that he uses a screwed up baker's percentage system, similar to the one Reinhart uses and which always causes all sorts of confusion.
Second thing, the recipe calls for 50 grams of water and rye in the stareter to 45 grams of levain. You used 100 each. this would give you a higher hydration.
125 grms of the rye starter is 86% of the available starter, which means that the starter contributes 86% of its ingredients, or
45 * .86 = 40 grams stiff levain
50 * .86 = 43 grams rye
50 * .86 = 43 grams water
to the final dough.
If the stiff levain is 50% hydration (Who knows?), then it contributes 20 grams each of water and rye.
The final dough is
Water: 43 + 20 + 350 = 413 grams
rye flour and white bread flour : 20 + 43 + 500 + 200 = 763 grams flour
413 / 763 = 54% Doesn't make any difference.
Third, the reciupe says to leave the finished load to proof for 20-30 minutes until the dough spreads and cracks appear in the surface.
Here are my hand-written notes:
Add 75 g water using stone ground rye flour, 62%. No cracks in surface.
500F may be too hot. Maybe bake 10 min at 500F, then 450F or 450F all the way.
500 requires an aluminum (aluminium, for my Canadian friends.) foil tent for the last 10-15 minutes. Gives a great, thick, shewy crust.
The picture indicates an even wetter dough, maybe 67-70%.
Maybe the cracks indicate a very dry dough. 52=54%, as in the original.
Obviously, I hit it right somewhere along there.
Here are some notes, very few, from my card files.
3-31-11 and on: doubled the recipe. Made with 57% hydration. Dough like stiff clay. No cracks on top in proof. Opened nicely upon slashing. took a long time to bake. Had to tent. Crust alomst burned.
That's all I have. I obviously had a lot of problems with this recipe and probably would have problems again if I made it.
I think a part of my problem is using the Hodgeson's Mills stone ground rye instead of a smooth rye flour, but then, a poor workman always blames his tools.
Let us know what you do and how it turns out.
Barry
Boy! Did you ever pick a *great* recipe! I mobviously tried this thing on at least three occaisions, because I have almost a full page of notes.
11-30-08: Made, but modified.
3-29-11: Made, see cards. (My index cards system, which I'll go get.)
2-7-12: Made with a yeast spike. Too flat.
First thing I note is that he uses a screwed up baker's percentage system, similar to the one Reinhart uses and which always causes all sorts of confusion.
Second thing, the recipe calls for 50 grams of water and rye in the stareter to 45 grams of levain. You used 100 each. this would give you a higher hydration.
125 grms of the rye starter is 86% of the available starter, which means that the starter contributes 86% of its ingredients, or
45 * .86 = 40 grams stiff levain
50 * .86 = 43 grams rye
50 * .86 = 43 grams water
to the final dough.
If the stiff levain is 50% hydration (Who knows?), then it contributes 20 grams each of water and rye.
The final dough is
Water: 43 + 20 + 350 = 413 grams
rye flour and white bread flour : 20 + 43 + 500 + 200 = 763 grams flour
413 / 763 = 54% Doesn't make any difference.
Third, the reciupe says to leave the finished load to proof for 20-30 minutes until the dough spreads and cracks appear in the surface.
Here are my hand-written notes:
Add 75 g water using stone ground rye flour, 62%. No cracks in surface.
500F may be too hot. Maybe bake 10 min at 500F, then 450F or 450F all the way.
500 requires an aluminum (aluminium, for my Canadian friends.) foil tent for the last 10-15 minutes. Gives a great, thick, shewy crust.
The picture indicates an even wetter dough, maybe 67-70%.
Maybe the cracks indicate a very dry dough. 52=54%, as in the original.
Obviously, I hit it right somewhere along there.
Here are some notes, very few, from my card files.
3-31-11 and on: doubled the recipe. Made with 57% hydration. Dough like stiff clay. No cracks on top in proof. Opened nicely upon slashing. took a long time to bake. Had to tent. Crust alomst burned.
That's all I have. I obviously had a lot of problems with this recipe and probably would have problems again if I made it.
I think a part of my problem is using the Hodgeson's Mills stone ground rye instead of a smooth rye flour, but then, a poor workman always blames his tools.
Let us know what you do and how it turns out.
Barry
graham
May 17, 2015, 7:11:25 PM5/17/15
to
BTW I did use 50g lots in the starter! Damned if I know why I wrote
100g!! I hadn't been drinking:-)
I think I will modify the recipe using a 65% or even 70% hydration and
my aim is to use brotforms for the final rise.
I wasn't happy with the dough today and I pitched it but it looked as if
that rye starter was more than capable of giving a good rise in a
reasonable time.
Another point: it might be worthwhile eliminating the second
fermentation after adding the bread flour and going straight to forming.
After all, there should be enough fermentation after the starter, water
and rye are combined.
I also questioned the high temperature. I would have thought that the
low 400s would suit a dough like this.
I think I ought to sell both my Leader books but the 2nd hand book
stores give so little. I went to one this afternoon and there was a nice
copy of Amy's Bread that had some interesting recipes and looked
reliable. But do I need another bread book............?
Graham
--
Barry Harmon
May 17, 2015, 10:03:59 PM5/17/15
to
> >
> Thanks Barry!!!
> BTW I did use 50g lots in the starter! Damned if I know why I wrote
> 100g!! I hadn't been drinking:-)
> I think I will modify the recipe using a 65% or even 70% hydration and
> my aim is to use brotforms for the final rise.
> I wasn't happy with the dough today and I pitched it but it looked as if
> that rye starter was more than capable of giving a good rise in a
> reasonable time.
> Another point: it might be worthwhile eliminating the second
> fermentation after adding the bread flour and going straight to forming.
> After all, there should be enough fermentation after the starter, water
> and rye are combined.
> I also questioned the high temperature. I would have thought that the
> low 400s would suit a dough like this.
> I think I ought to sell both my Leader books but the 2nd hand book
> stores give so little. I went to one this afternoon and there was a nice
> copy of Amy's Bread that had some interesting recipes and looked
> reliable. But do I need another bread book............?
> Graham
>
I've had problems off and on making rye breads. I've wondeered if it has to do with the rye flour exhausting itself and the dough not getting enough push from the white bread flour. Then I make something like the picture perfect 8 pound rye I made and when it works, I'm thrown back to square 1.
> Thanks Barry!!!
> BTW I did use 50g lots in the starter! Damned if I know why I wrote
> 100g!! I hadn't been drinking:-)
> I think I will modify the recipe using a 65% or even 70% hydration and
> my aim is to use brotforms for the final rise.
> I wasn't happy with the dough today and I pitched it but it looked as if
> that rye starter was more than capable of giving a good rise in a
> reasonable time.
> Another point: it might be worthwhile eliminating the second
> fermentation after adding the bread flour and going straight to forming.
> After all, there should be enough fermentation after the starter, water
> and rye are combined.
> I also questioned the high temperature. I would have thought that the
> low 400s would suit a dough like this.
> I think I ought to sell both my Leader books but the 2nd hand book
> stores give so little. I went to one this afternoon and there was a nice
> copy of Amy's Bread that had some interesting recipes and looked
> reliable. But do I need another bread book............?
> Graham
>
So maaybe eliminating the second fermentation would work.
My notes seem to indicate that I made this thing work with a hydration of high 50s. If you want, I can go back into the notes and the cards and try to figure out what I did. Let me know.
I was going to try to make this bread tomorrow, but I've got your 90%+ ciabatta on tap for tomorrow. The poolish is working as we speak.
Barry
graham
May 17, 2015, 10:31:48 PM5/17/15
to
the rye!! Even with the 90% dough, they instructed us to hold back some
of the water and add it after the dough had developed. I finished mine
today and am eating a pear and cracked pepper bread from the local and
very good Belgian patissier. This orgy of bread eating must have added
some avoirdupois but I haven't had the courage to weigh myself! :-(
Graham
--
Janet B
May 18, 2015, 11:43:57 AM5/18/15
to
On Sun, 17 May 2015 10:40:20 -0600, graham <gst...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>Classic Auvergne Dark Rye
>I have been trying to make the rye loaf on page 158 in “Local Breads” by
>Daniel Leader. The recipe and instructions don’t make sense. For
>example, the final hydration is only 53% and he describes it as a slack,
>sticky dough!
>It isn’t!!! It’s dry and leaden!!! I’ve added extra water to the final
>dough but it still looks unpromising and although it is fermenting, I
>expect I’ll cut my losses and ditch it.
>Graham
snip
>Classic Auvergne Dark Rye
>I have been trying to make the rye loaf on page 158 in “Local Breads” by
>Daniel Leader. The recipe and instructions don’t make sense. For
>example, the final hydration is only 53% and he describes it as a slack,
>sticky dough!
>It isn’t!!! It’s dry and leaden!!! I’ve added extra water to the final
>dough but it still looks unpromising and although it is fermenting, I
>expect I’ll cut my losses and ditch it.
>Graham
I don't care for Leader's recipes. His explanations don't work well
with my thought processes. I find I have to go back and puzzle things
out. So, the books are there but not used.
Janet US
Janet B
May 18, 2015, 11:45:47 AM5/18/15
to
to questions and comments via email. I like Reinhart especially.
Janet US
graham
May 18, 2015, 12:47:53 PM5/18/15
to
next week but should I donate them and have some poor sucker buy them
thinking that they are good? I don't think so.
Graham
--
graham
May 18, 2015, 10:46:14 PM5/18/15
to
On 17/05/2015 8:03 PM, Barry Harmon wrote:
>>>
>>>
He appears to have specialised in E.European breads having spent time in
Russia.
"The key to all breads with more than 50% rye flour is that the dough
must be very soft. If you try to make a rye dough into a kneadable
consistency, the end result will be close to concrete. Make it as soft
as loose mashed potato and the bread will rise well and keep for many days."
His 100% rye recipes are 84-95% hydration and his seeded, 47% Rye is 77%!
How did the ciabatta turn out?
Graham
--
Barry Harmon
May 18, 2015, 10:53:15 PM5/18/15
to
> I'm thinking of getting rid of them. There's a big charity book sale
> next week but should I donate them and have some poor sucker buy them
> thinking that they are good? I don't think so.
> Graham
>
> --
>
It's that some of them work, but you never know which ones. And you spend a lot of time and effort and flour trying to figure which ones work and how.
I've made some good breads from his recipes, once I figured out that you hve to parse the recipes carefully before attempting the bread.
However, some of them are beyond redemption or repair. Take a close look at the Flax, sesame and sunfloowere rye on page 282. This recipe makes no sense whatsoever. Same with the Rlsetta rolls on page 226. I've worked with these a lot and can't make them work.
He also plays with the color temperature on the photos, but that's what they all do: Make the photo warm and appealing for certain types of bread; cool and stern for others. Nothing wrong, just don't expect your breads to look like the pictures.
Barry
Gordon Henderson
May 19, 2015, 8:44:21 AM5/19/15
to
In article <Utx6x.22212$WG1....@fx04.iad>, graham <gst...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>I've just been reading Andrew Whitley's rye section in "Bread Matters".
>He appears to have specialised in E.European breads having spent time in
>Russia.
>
>"The key to all breads with more than 50% rye flour is that the dough
>must be very soft. If you try to make a rye dough into a kneadable
>consistency, the end result will be close to concrete. Make it as soft
>as loose mashed potato and the bread will rise well and keep for many days."
>
>His 100% rye recipes are 84-95% hydration and his seeded, 47% Rye is 77%!
I have Andrews book - it's a good read.
>I've just been reading Andrew Whitley's rye section in "Bread Matters".
>He appears to have specialised in E.European breads having spent time in
>Russia.
>
>"The key to all breads with more than 50% rye flour is that the dough
>must be very soft. If you try to make a rye dough into a kneadable
>consistency, the end result will be close to concrete. Make it as soft
>as loose mashed potato and the bread will rise well and keep for many days."
>
>His 100% rye recipes are 84-95% hydration and his seeded, 47% Rye is 77%!
I think a lot of the small producers like me use his basic Rye recipes
too - either from having been on a course with him, or knowing someone
who has (in my case)
So my basic Rye "base" mix is more or less the same for all Ryes I do
and its about 90% hydration. This isn't kneaded dough, it's mixed and
(almost) poured.
My Rye starter is kept at 150% hydration.
And I made a large borodinski 6 days ago and there's still 1/4 left in
excellent condition and all I do with it is wrap it in greasproof paper...
Gordon
Boron Elgar
May 19, 2015, 9:53:02 AM5/19/15
to
On Mon, 18 May 2015 20:46:16 -0600, graham <gst...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>>
>I've just been reading Andrew Whitley's rye section in "Bread Matters".
>He appears to have specialised in E.European breads having spent time in
>Russia.
>
>"The key to all breads with more than 50% rye flour is that the dough
>must be very soft. If you try to make a rye dough into a kneadable
>consistency, the end result will be close to concrete. Make it as soft
>as loose mashed potato and the bread will rise well and keep for many days."
>
>His 100% rye recipes are 84-95% hydration and his seeded, 47% Rye is 77%!
>
Stan Ginsberg, of New York Bakers, is coming out with a rye bread book
>
>>
>I've just been reading Andrew Whitley's rye section in "Bread Matters".
>He appears to have specialised in E.European breads having spent time in
>Russia.
>
>"The key to all breads with more than 50% rye flour is that the dough
>must be very soft. If you try to make a rye dough into a kneadable
>consistency, the end result will be close to concrete. Make it as soft
>as loose mashed potato and the bread will rise well and keep for many days."
>
>His 100% rye recipes are 84-95% hydration and his seeded, 47% Rye is 77%!
>
this year or early next, I believe. He is very good with his recipes,
and for someone in the US, he offers the chance to get some
interesting flours that home bakers do not often have access to.
Again, he is for home bakers. Graham, I do not know if he ships to
Canada, but his current book is at Amazon or at his site, too, I
think.
http://nybakers.com/
Boron
Gerardus
May 19, 2015, 1:42:04 PM5/19/15
to
200 g rye
250 g spelt
50 g enhanced home bread flour of unknown composition in case it helps
250 g water
10 g salt
10 g brown sugar
18 g lard
5.5 g dry yeast
Gerardus
Barry Harmon
May 19, 2015, 5:53:16 PM5/19/15
to
Well, it's a saga.
The dough wound up like thick soup. I never got full cleanance on the sides of the bowl, even after 20 minutes at 6 on the KA.
First rise was about 50%. First S&F was a mess. Needed a lot of flour to make the thing handelable.
Second rise was also 50%. S&F was easier, still a lot or flour.
Third rise about 75%. S&F was easier, still a lot of flour.
FInal rise was 50-75%.
Needed some more flour to mnake the dough cuttable.
Into the oven.
Baked 20 minutes. Then the oven died. Took me twenty minutes to figure it was the pilot, not an electrical thing and get it re-lit.
Back to baking and the things look to have turned out all right. The oven spring wasn't what you had, but it still appears to be decent.
My comments would be
That the flour in the S&Fs probasbly cut the real hydration from 92% to 75%, maybe even less. This is my usual rant o very wet breads; the instructions say 90% hydration, but then use so much flour to make the thing handle that the effective hydration drops a lot, yet they still claim it's 90%, which it isn't. I should have weighed the flour I added, which I will next time.
The dough was fully developed, though, and had a great feel.
I'm going to try this one again, and hope the oven cooperates!
Thanks.
Barry
graham
May 19, 2015, 9:09:39 PM5/19/15
to
On 19/05/2015 3:53 PM, Barry Harmon wrote:
>
> Hi Graham,
> Well, it's a saga.
> The dough wound up like thick soup. I never got full cleanance on the sides of the bowl, even after 20 minutes at 6 on the KA.
> First rise was about 50%. First S&F was a mess. Needed a lot of flour to make the thing handelable.
> Second rise was also 50%. S&F was easier, still a lot or flour.
> Third rise about 75%. S&F was easier, still a lot of flour.
> FInal rise was 50-75%.
> Needed some more flour to mnake the dough cuttable.
> Into the oven.
> Baked 20 minutes. Then the oven died. Took me twenty minutes to figure it was the pilot, not an electrical thing and get it re-lit.
> Back to baking and the things look to have turned out all right. The oven spring wasn't what you had, but it still appears to be decent.
> My comments would be
> That the flour in the S&Fs probasbly cut the real hydration from 92% to 75%, maybe even less. This is my usual rant o very wet breads; the instructions say 90% hydration, but then use so much flour to make the thing handle that the effective hydration drops a lot, yet they still claim it's 90%, which it isn't. I should have weighed the flour I added, which I will next time.
> The dough was fully developed, though, and had a great feel.
> I'm going to try this one again, and hope the oven cooperates!
>
> Thanks.
>
> Barry
>
>
I'm sorry it didn't work out! We used bread flour and it was probably a
>
> Hi Graham,
> Well, it's a saga.
> The dough wound up like thick soup. I never got full cleanance on the sides of the bowl, even after 20 minutes at 6 on the KA.
> First rise was about 50%. First S&F was a mess. Needed a lot of flour to make the thing handelable.
> Second rise was also 50%. S&F was easier, still a lot or flour.
> Third rise about 75%. S&F was easier, still a lot of flour.
> FInal rise was 50-75%.
> Needed some more flour to mnake the dough cuttable.
> Into the oven.
> Baked 20 minutes. Then the oven died. Took me twenty minutes to figure it was the pilot, not an electrical thing and get it re-lit.
> Back to baking and the things look to have turned out all right. The oven spring wasn't what you had, but it still appears to be decent.
> My comments would be
> That the flour in the S&Fs probasbly cut the real hydration from 92% to 75%, maybe even less. This is my usual rant o very wet breads; the instructions say 90% hydration, but then use so much flour to make the thing handle that the effective hydration drops a lot, yet they still claim it's 90%, which it isn't. I should have weighed the flour I added, which I will next time.
> The dough was fully developed, though, and had a great feel.
> I'm going to try this one again, and hope the oven cooperates!
>
> Thanks.
>
> Barry
>
>
"high-test" variety as the bakers' flour I get from the wholesaler has a
very high protein content.
The mixing was done with a dough hook in a monster machine and the dough
came together pretty quickly. I think that I would use the cake beater
instead, as one would for cocodrillo.
I should have tried it at home first before posting, I suppose. However,
I thought that with the way it came together on the course,
it should work at home, especially since we used the dough hook.
I went to a commercial kitchen supplier last Friday and bought some bins
for fermenting gloppy doughs. They had some of those mixers but they
cost around $4k.
At another wholesaler, I found a source for large, flat sheets of
parchment. I have plenty that I bought in the UK last year but at least
I will know where to go when I run out.
Graham
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graham
May 19, 2015, 9:20:38 PM5/19/15
to
As for the flours, a local "health food" supermarket sells a wide range
of special flours and grains. In addition, they stock products from a
local "organic" mill that seems to have quite a good reputation. Since I
live alone and there's a limit to how much I can eat or give away, I'm
reluctant to keep too many flours in stock in the freezer. I recently
used up several bags of Italian "00" flour that had gone well past the
BB date but they were in the freezer. I made lots of pizza bases for my
very busy son and d-i-l.
40lb bags of bakers' flour were available at the wholesaler for around
$17 and I was tempted but it will soon be fruit season and I must keep
some room in the freezer.
Ginsberg's book looks interesting and I'm tempted! I've just looked at
Glezer's "Blessings" book and her recipe for deli rye looks as if it
might be a good one to try. At least she has a better reputation than
Leader!
Graham
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graham
May 19, 2015, 9:23:25 PM5/19/15
to
add the lard after the dough is mixed.
Graham
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