Bread flour vs (all purpose+gluten)?
Aloke Prasad
I noticed that breads turn out better with bread flour (Pillsbury) than
[all-purpose (Pillsbury)+gluten (Hodgeson mills)]. I am adding one
tablespoon of gluten to a 1 1/5 lb recipe (3 1/4 cup flour).
The bread with bread flour seems less dense (rises higher in the
breadmaker) but less "floppy" as well (a slice seems to maintain its
shape instead of "keeling over" when the bread is being sliced).
Unfortunately, I have a couple of bags of all-purpose flour that I need
to use up.
How can I embellish all purpose flour to make it behave more like bread
flour? Should I add more Gluten?
Thanks.
--
Aloke
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LIMEYNO1
1 tb gluten per cup of flour.
--
The Limey in Stoney Creek, Ontario
http://mompeagram.homestead.com/GRANDMAS_HOUSE.html
"Aloke Prasad" <apras...@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3B470471...@columbus.rr.com...
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Aloke Prasad
The question is: Is there any way to make good bread with A/P flour?
Say by adding something else to the mix, or by kneading/rising the dough
differently etc...
--
Aloke
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LIMEYNO1 wrote:
>
> I used bread flour for years and get much better results with A/P flour and
> 1 tb gluten per cup of flour.
> "Aloke Prasad" <apras...@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
> > Unfortunately, I have a couple of bags of all-purpose flour that I need
The Old Bear
>From: Aloke Prasad <apras...@columbus.rr.com>
>Newsgroups: alt.bread.recipes
>Subject: Bread flour vs (all purpose+gluten)?
>Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 12:45:50 GMT
> . . .
>I noticed that breads turn out better with bread flour (Pillsbury) than
>[all-purpose (Pillsbury)+gluten (Hodgeson mills)]. I am adding one
>tablespoon of gluten to a 1 1/5 lb recipe (3 1/4 cup flour).
> . . .
>Unfortunately, I have a couple of bags of all-purpose flour that I need
>to use up.
>
>How can I embellish all purpose flour to make it behave more like bread
>flour? Should I add more Gluten?
Aloke:
Yes. You need to add more gluten. Arrowhead Mills recommends 1 Tbsp
for every two cups of flour. Consider that a guideline.
Your breadmaker kneads more forcefully than hand kneading, so it will
tear up some of the gluten -- that's why high gluten flours are
recommended for use in bread-making machines.
Keep in mind that when you add gluten, you are increasing the effective
total amount of flour -- so you need to adjust your other ingredients
accordingly, including the amount of liquid.
Cheers,
The Old Bear
Leslie Mutchler
yeast start in a separate bowl. I mix as much flour in the hot milk as I can .
When the flour & hot milk is cooled to warm I then add the yeast. The hot mlk &
flour builds the natural glutton.
skye
: Unfortunately, I have a couple of bags of all-purpose flour that I need
: to use up.
: How can I embellish all purpose flour to make it behave more like bread
: flour? Should I add more Gluten?
by the way, if you run out of gluten, you could use the AP flour to
make pizza dough. (and if you run out of yeast, you can make
pancakes instead... :)
-- skye
ObBread: I made the most perfect loaf of white bread I have
ever, EVER made in my entire life, this weekend. It's all fluffy
and soft. It won't win any contests for sure, but just knowing I
made it makes it taste so good!
2lb "french" honey bread from my breadmachine cookbook, stirred
up in the breadmaker then risen and baked in the oven.
1.25 c water
1.5 Tbsp honey
1.5 Tbsp water
1 tsp salt
1.5 tsp sugar
3.5 c bread flour
2.5 tsp yeast
I don't know what I did that was so different, except it was
a hot sunny day, and I followed the 240 "suggestion". Oh! I
also baked two other different loaves at the same time, so maybe
it was the competition...
Barry Harmon
Quite a few cookbook folks specify unbleached flour for bread. Judith
Olney, Julia Child, etc.
Bread/Machine flours work well, and seem to give a bertter exression of what
we think flour/bread is supposed to do than regular flour, but the jury may
still be out on this. European flours are lower in gluten than our
all-purpose flours.
I've added glutten in various proportions to various recipes over the past
15 years, and I can't say that I know what's going on or how to compensate
for it. My experience is that it makes a tougher, more elastic dough. I'd
use it as something in its own right, not something to make up for a
deficiency in some other area.
"Aloke Prasad" <apras...@columbus.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3B470471...@columbus.rr.com...
AusyG
Is the bread M/C cookbook the one you got with your M/C or bought one. If it
was bought where did you get it?
Aloke Prasad
skye wrote:
> 2lb "french" honey bread from my breadmachine cookbook, stirred
> up in the breadmaker then risen and baked in the oven.
>
> 1.25 c water
> 1.5 Tbsp honey
> 1.5 Tbsp water
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What is this for? You already added 1.25 cups of water ...
> 1 tsp salt
> 1.5 tsp sugar
> 3.5 c bread flour
> 2.5 tsp yeast
>
> I don't know what I did that was so different, except it was
> a hot sunny day, and I followed the 240 "suggestion". Oh! I
What is the 240 suggestion?
Did you use a bread machine?
skye
: 2lb "french" honey bread from my breadmachine cookbook, stirred
: up in the breadmaker then risen and baked in the oven.
: 1.25 c water
: 1.5 Tbsp honey
: 1.5 Tbsp water
ARGH
I mean, 1.5 Tbsp of OIL
: 1 tsp salt
: 1.5 tsp sugar
: 3.5 c bread flour
: 2.5 tsp yeast
-- skye
skye
: Hi
: Is the bread M/C cookbook the one you got with your M/C or bought one. If it
: was bought where did you get it?
it was bought. I got it from a cooking store in colorado who also happens to
sell books.
I didn't think I would like it (everyone else always recommends books
like Electric Bread, but I never find any recipes I want to make) but it
contains some of my most-used recipes.
The Bread Machine Cookbook by Donna Rathmell German contains recipes for
1 lb, 1.5 lb, and 2 lb loaves. I don't feel the 1 lb recipes work well for
me (but then, I have a larger size bread machine, so maybe someone else
can comment differently). I usually use the 1.5 lb recipes but now plan to
start trying the 2lb loaves.
-- skye
skye
: skye wrote:
:> 2lb "french" honey bread from my breadmachine cookbook, stirred
:> up in the breadmaker then risen and baked in the oven.
:>
:> 1.25 c water
:> 1.5 Tbsp honey
:> 1.5 Tbsp water
: ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: What is this for? You already added 1.25 cups of water ...
Aloke,
thank you for proofreading my work, something I should have done before
I sent it. My apologies. Of course this should be 1.5 Tbsp of OIL,
specifically Olive Oil.
The rest of the recipe is correct.
:> 1 tsp salt
:> 1.5 tsp sugar
:> 3.5 c bread flour
:> 2.5 tsp yeast
:>
:> I don't know what I did that was so different, except it was
:> a hot sunny day, and I followed the 240 "suggestion". Oh! I
: What is the 240 suggestion?
If you go to http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
and do a search on "240 rule" in the newsgroup alt.bread.recipes,
you will get more information and more accurately than I can
give you. All I know is I take the temperature of the room and temperature
of the flour, and add it together. This I subtract from 240 to give
me the temperature my water should be. And that I am only supposed
to use 240 as an approximate -- this number will change depending
on how much dough I make.
: Did you use a bread machine?
I only use the bread machine for the initial mixing. As soon as
it switchs to "rise" I turn it off and put the dough in a bowl
to rise until it doubles in size. Then I punch it down and shape
it and put it in my loaf pan.
Best wishes,
-- skye
Aloke Prasad
skye wrote:
>
> Aloke Prasad <apras...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
>
> : skye wrote:
>
> :> 2lb "french" honey bread from my breadmachine cookbook, stirred
> :> up in the breadmaker then risen and baked in the oven.
> :>
> :> 1.25 c water
> :> 1.5 Tbsp honey
> :> 1.5 Tbsp water
> : ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> : What is this for? You already added 1.25 cups of water ...
>
> Aloke,
>
> thank you for proofreading my work, something I should have done before
> I sent it. My apologies. Of course this should be 1.5 Tbsp of OIL,
> specifically Olive Oil.
>
> The rest of the recipe is correct.
I plan to make this bread today. I have been making all kinds of
"exotic" breads since getting my Panasonic BM that a good basic white
bread would be nice change.
> :> 1 tsp salt
> :> 1.5 tsp sugar
> :> 3.5 c bread flour
> :> 2.5 tsp yeast
> :>
> :> I don't know what I did that was so different, except it was
> :> a hot sunny day, and I followed the 240 "suggestion". Oh! I
>
> : What is the 240 suggestion?
>
> If you go to http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
> and do a search on "240 rule" in the newsgroup alt.bread.recipes,
> you will get more information and more accurately than I can
> give you. All I know is I take the temperature of the room and temperature
> of the flour, and add it together. This I subtract from 240 to give
> me the temperature my water should be. And that I am only supposed
> to use 240 as an approximate -- this number will change depending
> on how much dough I make.
I wonder if this is important in timer operation of BMs. In my case,
the water will be sitting on top of the dry ingredients for 4-5 hrs
before getting mixed in (at 2 AM). Everything will be at room
temperature by then (I freeze the flour and yeast and use room
temperature filtered water). In the Panasonic, the Yeast does not get
added until the actual mixing starts.. which is a good thing for timer
operations.
> : Did you use a bread machine?
>
> I only use the bread machine for the initial mixing. As soon as
> it switchs to "rise" I turn it off and put the dough in a bowl
> to rise until it doubles in size. Then I punch it down and shape
> it and put it in my loaf pan.
I am strictly a "add ingredients carefully and press a few buttons" type
of a guy. The Panasonic has performed superbly so far. Let's see how
this bread turns out.
skye
: I plan to make this bread today. I have been making all kinds of
: "exotic" breads since getting my Panasonic BM that a good basic white
: bread would be nice change.
Let me know how it goes, if you would. This bread is a bit of a high
riser, I was always afraid it would touch the breadmachine cover. If
that happens to you, you may be happier with the 1.5 lb recipe:
1-1/8 cup water
1 Tbsp honey
1 Tbsp Olive oil
3/4 tsp salt
1 tsp sugar
3 C bread flour
2 tsp yeast
But I really like the 2 lb recipe more than the 1.5 :)
: I wonder if this is important in timer operation of BMs. In my case,
I wouldn't think the 240 rule would be important for BMs. I find that
mine, a breadman, actually heats the dough as it kneads. And of course,
the rise is climate-controlled too!
: I am strictly a "add ingredients carefully and press a few buttons" type
heh. I never was that even when the breadmachine was doing the work. :)
I'd always be in there, watching worriedly, poking at the dough and
"helping it" around the corners, *laugh*.
-- skye
Ed B.
As I made it I wondered why it includes both honey and sugar.
It did rise a bit above the pan, it looked beautiful but it was much too
soft for me. It tended to crush under the bread knife.
--
~)< Love & Peace Ed B.
"We covenant to affirm and promote the inherent worth and dignity of
every person."
Unitarian Universalist 1st Principle
skye
: I made it yesterday. I used walnut oil instead of olive oil.
: As I made it I wondered why it includes both honey and sugar.
: It did rise a bit above the pan, it looked beautiful but it was much too
: soft for me. It tended to crush under the bread knife.
thanks for letting me know, Ed! Makes me think of a garlic flavored
olive oil I still have the tail end of. Maybe I can finish it off in
this and make a base for garlic bread...
No idea why it includes both honey and sugar, I just shrug and go
along with it.
I'm thinking this bread takes a bit more time to "set" than other
breads. Is that possible? Once I made it and was in a hurry so
I let it cool until it was just warm to touch, and then sliced it.
Disaster! Huge holes torn into my slices! Ever since then, I've
made it right before lunch, and then had it for dinner.
Thanks again,
-- skye
arthur
re the bread crushes under the knife. Try to use a serrated knife and
saw do not press.... It makes a difference....Arthur
Ed B.
>
> Ed B. <huma...@cts.com> wrote:
> : I made it yesterday. I used walnut oil instead of olive oil.
>
> : As I made it I wondered why it includes both honey and sugar.
>
> : It did rise a bit above the pan, it looked beautiful but it was much too
> : soft for me. It tended to crush under the bread knife.
>
> thanks for letting me know, Ed! Makes me think of a garlic flavored
> olive oil I still have the tail end of. Maybe I can finish it off in
> this and make a base for garlic bread...
>
> No idea why it includes both honey and sugar, I just shrug and go
> along with it.
I did the same thing.
> I'm thinking this bread takes a bit more time to "set" than other
> breads. Is that possible? Once I made it and was in a hurry so
> I let it cool until it was just warm to touch, and then sliced it.
> Disaster! Huge holes torn into my slices! Ever since then, I've
> made it right before lunch, and then had it for dinner.
I made it last night and let it cool for a while then sliced the first
slice. It didn't tear but it was very soft. I left it to cool more and
then had it toasted for breakfast with applesauce and cinnamon sugar.
(Sort of a "low-fat" cinnamon toast.) It was still very soft and tended
to crush a little under the knife. It tasted delicious.
> Thanks again,
>
> -- skye
And thank you!
Ed B.
I used a serrated bread knife and I did saw but it still takes a little
pressure to penetrate the crust to start slicing. The bread did not
crush all the way, just gave quite a bit under the knife. With any
other knife it would have been disastrous.
Aloke Prasad
skye wrote:
>
> Aloke Prasad <apras...@columbus.rr.com> wrote:
>
> : I plan to make this bread today. I have been making all kinds of
> : "exotic" breads since getting my Panasonic BM that a good basic white
> : bread would be nice change.
>
> Let me know how it goes, if you would. This bread is a bit of a high
> riser, I was always afraid it would touch the breadmachine cover. If
> that happens to you, you may be happier with the 1.5 lb recipe:
The 2 lb was fine. The bread rose quite a bit, but that is the shape of
the Panasonic (a tall loaf with smaller cross-section area). The bread
was nice with soft fine interior, no voids. I could not taste much of
the honey flavor but the bread was great regardless.
The bread had a nice brown exterior and crust. I could not wait for it
to cool down so sliced it in 20 minutes (very warm to touch). I used a
serrated bread knife with lots of sawing motion to cut though the
crust. Turned out fine.
> I wouldn't think the 240 rule would be important for BMs. I find that
> mine, a breadman, actually heats the dough as it kneads. And of course,
> the rise is climate-controlled too!
That must be the case too. I did not have the patience to do a timer
bake and started the machine right away with flour and yeast straight
out of the freezer. The Pana has a 1/2 hr hold cycle to stabilize the
ingredient temperature, but I doubt that would have warmed up the
ingredients a whole lot. Clearly, the machine has a temperature sensor
and does control the knead and rise temperatures.
Wonderful technology, all this.