British bread rolls - taxonomy

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Graham

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Aug 25, 2021, 12:25:46 PM8/25/21
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A long but interesting article:
https://tinyurl.com/283adc2m

Boron Elgar

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Aug 25, 2021, 3:28:38 PM8/25/21
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On Wed, 25 Aug 2021 10:25:44 -0600, Graham <g.st...@shaw.ca> wrote:

>A long but interesting article:
>https://tinyurl.com/283adc2m

I enjoyed reading that, but have so little knowledge of UK rolls, that
I cannot say I grasped parts of it.

Graham

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Aug 25, 2021, 3:47:11 PM8/25/21
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In my village, the bakers called them "dough-buns".
ISTR that when I was a child, the price was a penny-farthing (1.25 old
pence) or 3 for threepence-halfpenny (pronounced thrippence-hape-nee)
i.e. 3.5 old pence. I think that bakers were the last to use farthings
that were taken out of circulation in the 1950s.

Peter Flynn

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Aug 28, 2021, 9:20:11 AM8/28/21
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On 25/08/2021 17:25, Graham wrote:
> A long but interesting article:
> https://tinyurl.com/283adc2m

I just looked at the banner image and I don't recognize most of them
even though I spent my early life in the UK. I suspect lots of them are
regional, but I'll settle down and read the article.

Graham, what is the name of that bread roll I used to come across a lot
in the midlands in the 60s and 70s, and again in London in the 70s and
80s, round, domed, basically all crust and hollow inside? looking nice
but a tasteless swindle of an empty roll.

We have a different set of breads in Ireland, many with local names, but
one that seems to be making headway elsewhere after getting its AOC, the
Waterford Blaa, which is like a bap but round not square, getting its
name from a corruption of the French "blanc" (white) in reference to the
finer flour used at a time when common flour was brown.

Thanks for posting this

Peter

Graham

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Aug 28, 2021, 12:56:28 PM8/28/21
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On 2021-08-28 7:20 a.m., Peter Flynn wrote:
> On 25/08/2021 17:25, Graham wrote:
>> A long but interesting article:
>> https://tinyurl.com/283adc2m
>
> I just looked at the banner image and I don't recognize most of them
> even though I spent my early life in the UK. I suspect lots of them are
> regional, but I'll settle down and read the article.
>
> Graham, what is the name of that bread roll I used to come across a lot
> in the midlands in the 60s and 70s, and again in London in the 70s and
> 80s, round, domed, basically all crust and hollow inside? looking nice
> but a tasteless swindle of an empty roll.
>
I don't know! I hated them too. The "dough buns" that the 2 bakeries in
my home village made were essentially small baps. The crusts were soft.
The bakers would never have got away with those hollow monstrosities!

> We have a different set of breads in Ireland, many with local names, but
> one that seems to be making headway elsewhere after getting its AOC, the
> Waterford Blaa, which is like a bap but round not square, getting its
> name from a corruption of the French "blanc" (white) in reference to the
> finer flour used at a time when common flour was brown.
>
> Thanks for posting this

I like to help keep the group alive!
I remember buying soda bread rolls when I was doing field work in Cork
Harbour and other places along the south coast including Hook Head.

Peter Flynn

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Sep 23, 2021, 3:35:33 PM9/23/21
to
On 28/08/2021 17:56, Graham wrote:
> On 2021-08-28 7:20 a.m., Peter Flynn wrote:
>> [...] round, domed, basically all crust and hollow inside? looking
>> nice but a tasteless swindle of an empty roll.
>>
> I don't know! I hated them too. The "dough buns" that the 2 bakeries in
> my home village made were essentially small baps. The crusts were soft.
> The bakers would never have got away with those hollow monstrosities!

They were definitely at the bottom end of the baking industry spectrum.
I have no idea what people would buy them for.

The village in East Anglia I spent most time in was too small to have
anything except a village stores, and they just took a small number of
loaves from a travelling bread van that came in from Bungay or Beccles.
Most people baked their own at home there, I suspect.

> I remember buying soda bread rolls when I was doing field work in Cork
> Harbour and other places along the south coast including Hook Head.

Not common these days: the mass-market rolls are plain white and
factory-produced. But in some stores you can get hand-made bread, and
it's growing slowly. ABC (Alternative Bread Company) in Cork market
hived off their production to a commercial baker some years ago when it
got too big an operation to be done at home, and the quality suffered
and hasn't recovered. Still pretty good, but not what it was. Declan
Ryan (of Arbutus fame) still make and sells his bread, though, which is
amazing.

Peter

Gordon Henderson

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Sep 23, 2021, 4:27:20 PM9/23/21
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In article <cauVI.2$2B...@fx04.iad>, Graham <g.st...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>A long but interesting article:
>https://tinyurl.com/283adc2m

It's a nice article, but just goes to show that almost every baker in
every town, county and country has their own form of a roll - (bap,
etc.) a small lump of bread usually round, designed to hold butter,
bacon and/or egg or other cooked meat of some sorts, topped with pickles
or even "salad", etc.

Sometimes even some cooked beef called a "hamburger" ;-)

In Scotland, we've had the concept of the "morning roll" for many years
(centurys, possibly) which are often very well fired to the point of
being almsot black on-top. Saves toasting them..

Might be intersting to compare with the Devon or Cornish Pasty - basically
pastry designed to hold a savoury filling in dirty hands...

Not that economical for small bakery to make them now when the
supermarkets have it all but wrapped up, but I used to make
a few trays of them for a local charity's summer BBQ on occasion.

Cheers,

-Gordon

Graham

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Sep 23, 2021, 9:01:26 PM9/23/21
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On 2021-09-23 1:35 p.m., Peter Flynn wrote:
> On 28/08/2021 17:56, Graham wrote:
>> On 2021-08-28 7:20 a.m., Peter Flynn wrote:
>>> [...] round, domed, basically all crust and hollow inside? looking
>>> nice but a tasteless swindle of an empty roll.
>>>
>> I don't know! I hated them too. The "dough buns" that the 2 bakeries in
>> my home village made were essentially small baps. The crusts were soft.
>> The bakers would never have got away with those hollow monstrosities!
>
> They were definitely at the bottom end of the baking industry spectrum.
> I have no idea what people would buy them for.
>
> The village in East Anglia I spent most time in was too small to have
> anything except a village stores, and they just took a small number of
> loaves from a travelling bread van that came in from Bungay or Beccles.
> Most people baked their own at home there, I suspect.

Both bakeries in the village (Debenham) are long gone. There is now a
small supermarket that receives bread deliveries from somewhere. I
haven't visited for 2 years due to covid but I hope to visit the UK next
year. I will then be able to see what has developed in the village when
I go to see my parent's grave.

>> I remember buying soda bread rolls when I was doing field work in Cork
>> Harbour and other places along the south coast including Hook Head.
>
> Not common these days: the mass-market rolls are plain white and
> factory-produced. But in some stores you can get hand-made bread, and
> it's growing slowly. ABC (Alternative Bread Company) in Cork market
> hived off their production to a commercial baker some years ago when it
> got too big an operation to be done at home, and the quality suffered
> and hasn't recovered. Still pretty good, but not what it was. Declan
> Ryan (of Arbutus fame) still make and sells his bread, though, which is
> amazing.
>
> Peter
>
I have pleasant memories of Cork. I was busy collecting rock samples
along the east side of the harbour but got cut off by the tide. I
managed to clamber into the old Admiralty fort and make my way to the
gate. The caretaker and his wife were surprised and invited me in for tea.
Graham


Graham

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Sep 23, 2021, 9:12:31 PM9/23/21
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I occasionally make rolls using the tangzhong method. Friends and family
really like them and their soft crust resembles typical baps.
All sorts of heritage grains are now available in my supermarket in
small, expensive bags. I bought some Red Fife flour from a local farmer
but couldn't get a decent loaf out of it, so I went back to normal hard
wheat flours.
Supermarkets here (Calgary) sell a range of breads but I think most are
from a central factory that delivers frozen, ready formed loaves. They
don't have the texture of artisan loaves.
Graham
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