Vital Wheat Gluten vs. Wheat Gluten Flour
J Field
just got here. :)
I just got the amazing book, The Bread Machine Cookbook by Beth
Hensperger. Her recipes include Vital Gluten because "it helps make
the loaves rise higher and gives them more volume". She states that
there is a difference between Vital Gluten and Gluten flour and not to
confuse them. Later in the book she again says "Do not confuse vital
wheat gluten with gluten flour..."
Well, locally I can only find Gluten flour (which I bought), but the
instructions on the gluten flour say to use 1 tbs per 3 cups of
regular flour, the same ratio as the recipes in the book that use
Vital Gluten.
I can't contact the author, but I was wondering if anyone knew if
there would be a problem substituting the gluten flour for the vital
gluten? I don't know if it would make a difference, but I have
recently started taking the dough out of the machine and baking it in
the regular oven, letting it rise again between the machine and the
oven. I've been bread machining for 8 years and I cannot believe I
never thought to bake the bread this way before- duh! :)
Thank you for any help you can give me!
- Jeannette
Dick Margulis
Jeannette,
There are two issues here. One is that there is an error in what you are
quoting from Hensperger. I don't know whether the error is in her
manuscript, in what some ignoramus of a copy editor did to her
manuscript, or in your transcription. But let's just fix the error.
Vital wheat gluten and gluten flour are, for the purposes of the baker,
the same thing (there are some production differences, but they don't
matter for your purposes). However, "gluten flour" or "vital wheat
gluten" is NOT the same thing as "high-gluten flour." High-gluten flour
is very strong bread flour, either milled from a high-protein wheat or
adjusted in the mill with the addition of some gluten flour to have the
gluten-forming potential promised on the bag. But high-gluten flour is
flour, not an additive. Vital wheat gluten is an additive.
Now to the second issue. With proper formulation and handling, your
homemade bread should come out just fine without the need for additives
such as gluten flour. So if you are having problems making satisfactory
bread and want advice on improving it, feel free to tell us what you're
doing (as exactly as you can) and what's unsatisfactory about the
results. If your only reason to seek out this additive is because
Hensperger says it's a good idea, well, you don't really need to pursue
that line of reasoning.
HTH,
Dick
ottermum
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hello, Dick!
Thanks for the reply!
I double checked my quotations from the book and they are as written
in the book (I cannot quote page numbers right now as I am not using
my home computer), so I'm assuming the error was made by the publisher
or the author herself.
I haven't made any of the recipes in the book yet, being hung up on
the gluten question, but I have made hundreds of home made bread
loaves without using the gluten (even whole wheat and rye breads) and
never had a problem. It was just that she specifically states using
vital gluten in most of her recipes so I thought it would be a good
idea to use it for her recipes.
I bought a small amount of gluten flour in a bulk store (being MUCH
cheaper), so if I don't need to use it it's not a problem.
Thank you agian for your VERY helpful reply, I appreciate the quick
response and I look forward to finding some great recipes on this
group- I cannot live by plain white bread alone anymore! Although my
kids seem to be able to do it.. :)
Thank you so much!!!
- Jeannette
Dee Dee
>
> - Show quoted text -
Here is a tidbit of information that I had on file.
"Some people use high-gluten flour to make a low-calorie loaf of
bread, but, because high-gluten flour is about eight times as
expensive as bread flour, most people don't make the substitution."
I've not made in years a high-gluten flour loaf, but as I recall, it
was a very dense and a bit chewey. Lamenting my "able to buy good
flour" days in Seattle, I was able to buy this at a very reasonable
price. For some reason at the time and I can't recall, I felt there
was something 'righteous' about using this flour (it was not the low-
calorie-thing).
I haven't sought out this high-gluten flour but assume it is
available, if you ever want to try it. I do use vital wheat gluten
in breads that are made with grains. I never use more than a
tablespoon to 4 cups of flour.
Dee
Rina
ideas for what to bake today... I feel that some authors include the Vital
wheat gluten so that the recipe won't fail... after all they don't know
where you live or what kind of flour is available to you.
If you use good quality flour the vital wheat gluten can be omitted. I do
have a small box on had and occasionally use a little bit of it when making
rye breads.
What's confusing is the labels on the packages of VWG... some brands do
label it as "Gluten flour", the key is that VWG will come in a small package
1 lb or less. There is a difference between VWG and "HIGH" gluten flour, but
VWG and gluten flour are the same. I think you bought the correct product.
Rina
"J Field" <Mommyp...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180483992.2...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> Hello, please forgive me if this subject has been already addressed, I
> just got here. :)
>
> I just got the amazing book, The Bread Machine Cookbook by Beth
> Hensperger. Her recipes include Vital Gluten because "it helps make
> the loaves rise higher and gives them more volume". She states that
> there is a difference between Vital Gluten and Gluten flour and not to
> confuse them. Later in the book she again says "Do not confuse vital
> wheat gluten with gluten flour..."
>
> Well, locally I can only find Gluten flour (which I bought), but the
> instructions on the gluten flour say to use 1 tbs per 3 cups of
> regular flour, the same ratio as the recipes in the book that use
> Vital Gluten.
> I was wondering if anyone knew if
jeannet...@gmail.com
> I have the same book, its great inspiration when I'm stuck in a rut and need
> ideas for what to bake today... I feel that some authors include the Vital
> wheat gluten so that the recipe won't fail... after all they don't know
> where you live or what kind of flour is available to you.
>
> If you use good quality flour the vital wheat gluten can be omitted. I do
> have a small box on had and occasionally use a little bit of it when making
> rye breads.
>
> What's confusing is the labels on the packages of VWG... some brands do
> label it as "Gluten flour", the key is that VWG will come in a small package
> 1 lb or less. There is a difference between VWG and "HIGH" gluten flour, but
> VWG and gluten flour are the same. I think you bought the correct product.
>
> Rina
>
>
> news:1180483992.2...@w5g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > Hello, please forgive me if this subject has been already addressed, I
> > just got here. :)
>
> > I just got the amazing book, The Bread Machine Cookbook by Beth
> > Hensperger. Her recipes include Vital Gluten because "it helps make
> > the loaves rise higher and gives them more volume". She states that
> > there is a difference between Vital Gluten and Gluten flour and not to
> > confuse them. Later in the book she again says "Do not confuse vital
> > wheat gluten with gluten flour..."
>
> > Well, locally I can only find Gluten flour (which I bought), but the
> > instructions on the gluten flour say to use 1 tbs per 3 cups of
> > regular flour, the same ratio as the recipes in the book that use
> > Vital Gluten.
> > I was wondering if anyone knew if
> > there would be a problem substituting the gluten flour for the vital
>
> - Show quoted text -
Thanks for the replies!
I bought the gluten flour in the bulk store (from a big bin), and if I
remember correctly I got a good sized bag (about 1/2 lb) for less than
$4 CND.
The section called "The Baker's Glossary of White Flours Ground from
Wheat" (pages 46 and 47 for those with the book) says under the
heading of "Gluetn Flour":
"Gluten flour is made by washing the starch from the endosperm several
times, then further grinding the remaining gluten proteins before
mixing them with the finest white flour, known as patent flour, in a
75/25 proportion. It's exceptionally high in protien and low in
starch, particularly useful in special diet breads and in doughs made
with whole grain flours that are low in, or completely lacking,
gluten, especially in bread machine baking. I don't call for gluten
flour, though, in this book. Don not confuse vital wheat gluten with
gluten flour or high-gluten bread flour."
The instructions that came with the gluten flour I bought at the bluck
store say this:
"Gluten flour is a very fine wheat protein powder, containing 75%
protein. It can be added to low-gluten (protein) flour to enhance
bread volume.
Use 1 tbs for every 3 cups of wheat flour, or 2- 3% based on flour
weight".
Earlier in the book (page 13) the authour writes this:
VITAL WHEAT GLUTEN
Although vital wheat gluten is not a core ingredient when making bread
by hand (the gluten contained in the flour is enough to pro¬duce a
high loaf when mixing and kneading by hand), I single out gluten here
as a main ingredient for bread machine baking because all my testing
has shown that it yields a better loaf when added to the dry
ingredients. Gluten is called for in most of the recipes in this book.
It helps make loaves rise higher and gives them more volume. Vital
wheat gluten-also known as just plain gluten-is made by washing the
starch from the endosperm in wheat, leaving pure plant protein that is
dried, ground, and marketed as a powdered extract. It is not a flour.
Gluten becomes stretchy during mixing and kneading, and is a premium
dough conditioner because it helps trap the rising CO2 in its strong
meshwork, making a puffier loaf. If you are experimenting with your
own recipes, I recommend using 1 to 2 teaspoons of gluten per cup of
white bread flour and 1 1/2 to 3 teaspoons gluten per cup of whole
grain flour for an exquisite texture. Sometimes I add double that if I
have a stiff all-whole wheat dough or am using a recipe calling for a
non-gluten
flour. If you add gluten to one of your existing bread recipes, note
that doughs containing gluten can absorb a tablespoon or two more of
liquid.
Store gluten in an airtight container in the refrigerator for up to
one year, but if you use gluten regularly, it can be kept in the
cupboard for up to two months.
Please note: If you encounter vital wheat gluten flour, this is a
different product than wheat gluten, which is much more concentrated.
Do not confuse these two items.
It's all very confusing, to me anyway. I made the Chocolate Challah
from the book for dessert on Wednesday night, and it was AMAZING! I
didn't use the gluten, but the 2 lbs loaf rose beautifully (however, I
bake all my breads now in the oven as opposed to the bread machine)-
any bigger and it would have looked like that thing Woody Allen fights
off in "Sleeper". :)
Thank you gain for all your help!!!
ZerkonX
> Her recipes include Vital Gluten because "it helps make the loaves rise
> higher and gives them more volume".
I would regard this as bunk. Use stronger flour, that's all. Use 'bread
flour' or if you can get it 'high gluten' flour.
Gluten is developed by working wheat flour with the water. The higher the
protein content of the flour the stronger the gluten, the more latitude
you have in the rise, the more volume.
So using a weak flour like cake flour, if you overwork it, you get a
'tough' product because you develop gluten which is usually unwanted. With
all purpose flour, which is stronger then cake flour, you can make a great
loaf but it will not be as chewy nor will it rise as much as with the
stronger bread flour or still stronger high gluten flour. With all purpose
flour the 2X volume rise is standard, with a stronger flour you can safely
exceed this limit.
Hope this isn't too redundant with other replies..
ZerkonX
> "Some people use high-gluten flour to make a low-calorie loaf of
> bread, but, because high-gluten flour is about eight times as
> expensive as bread flour, most people don't make the substitution."
Dang!
> I've not made in years a high-gluten flour loaf, but as I recall, it
> was a very dense and a bit chewey.
If you let it go well past the traditional 2X volume to more
like 3-4x volume the loaf can be very open and it is chewier that's for
sure.
Another thing about the stronger flours is that they can take a much
longer ferment without loss of structure than weaker flours.