Ivan Emmetovich
Shaun Dean
The Russians refer to Ryan as Ivan Emmetovich.
What is the reasoning behind this?
Is this from a previous book?
--
Shaun Dean
sd...@bayou.uh.edu
David E. Powell
>I have read Debt of Honor and am halfway through Executive Orders.
>The Russians refer to Ryan as Ivan Emmetovich.
>What is the reasoning behind this?
>Is this from a previous book?
Ivan is the Russian translation of the name John. Emmet was the name of his
father, and use of the Paternal name is a friendly, familiar form of name
usage in Russia.
IIRC it was in Debt of Honor or Cardinal of the Kremlin where someone called
Ryan this first...
>--
>
>Shaun Dean
>sd...@bayou.uh.edu
>
>
>
>
News
attach it to "vich", in this case, Ryan's father's name was Emmet?? and thus
Emmetovich
I have no clue where the Ivan comes from
Sergei Golvoko is the only person who calls Ryan by the name Ivan Emmetovich
Iggster
Shaun Dean wrote in message <9Bbm3.41$ZE3....@news15.ispnews.com>...
>I have read Debt of Honor and am halfway through Executive Orders.
>The Russians refer to Ryan as Ivan Emmetovich.
>What is the reasoning behind this?
>Is this from a previous book?
>
>--
>
>Shaun Dean
>sd...@bayou.uh.edu
>
>
>
>
Greg Anderson
<ss...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Sergei Golovko russified Jack Ryan's name in _Cardinal of the Kremlin_.
Quoting from page 462 of the paperback version, where Ryan and Golovko
are discussing warning time before on-site disarmament verification
visits:
Ryan: ``...If it was just between you and me, I'd say one hour, and
you'd say eight, and we'd eventually talk down to three or
four---''
Golovko: ``Four or five.'' Golovko laughed.
``Four, then.'' Jack did, too. ``You see? We'd _settle_ the
son of a bitch, wouldn't we?''
``But we are not diplomats,'' Golovko pointed out. ``We
know how to strike bargains, but not in the accepted way.
We are too direct, you and I, too practical. Ah, Ivan
Emmetovich, we will make a Russian of you yet.'' He'd
just Russianized Jack's name. Ivan Emmetovich. John,
son of Emmet.
Jack is a diminutive form of John in English, and Ivan is the Russian
equivalent of John. So Jack ~= Ivan (really Jack == Vanya, I think).
My understanding, from a semester of college Russian[1], is that Russian
names traditionally are First Name, Patronymic, Last Name. Patronymics
are based on the father's name. For sons, the patronymic is
fathers_name-ovich or fathers_name-ovitch and for daughters, the
patronymic is fathers_name-ovna. So Jack Ryan's full Russian equivalent
would be
Ivan Emmetovich Ryan
as his father's name was Emmet (see WR).
My dad's name is Ted, and (I believe) Fyodr is the Russian equivalent, so
Grigoriy Fyodrovich Anderson
for me and
Danielle Fyodrovna Anderson[2]
for my sister.
Hope that helps.
Greg Anderson
[1] Boy, I hope a true Russian scholar might correct me on this one. DVK, are
you listening?
[2] Anyone know the Russian equivalent of Danielle? (calling DVK...)
--
Greg Anderson
gand...@san.rr.com (home)
ande...@python.ucsd.edu (work)
Daniel Khaykis
<SNIP Greg's excellent answer>
> [1] Boy, I hope a true Russian scholar might correct me on this one. DVK, are
> you listening?
Yes, and i'm glad I held off on answering, this post covered all I wanted to
say and more. (thanks for Jack=John, I didn't know that)
(but Greg, i'm not, by any stretch of imagination, a Russian scholar ;)
> [2] Anyone know the Russian equivalent of Danielle? (calling DVK...)
Well, seing that Danielle, as well as Daniel, aren't usual Russian names;
(first borrowed from French, second, via who-knows-who, from Hebrew);
you don't have "Russian Equivalent" of those, but Daniel[0] is used there
as well as female version, "Daniela".
(a usual way to obtain a female first name from male is to add "-a" at the
end, don't quote me on that but I tink this is mostly used with
Greek-originated names (Alexandr-Alexandra, etc...)
Actually, a lot of "russian" first names can be traced to other languages,
mostly Greek or greek versions of Hebrew names.
-DVK
[0] The interesting fact is that in Russian, there are 2 versions of my name,
Daniel (as in Daniel Defoe[1], author of Robinson Crusoe); and
Daniil (which was actually my name and the way it's spelled
in all my official documents in US so far).
[1] If you change one letter, you make this post doubly-on topic <g>
Barker32
> know how to strike bargains, but not in the accepted way.
> We are too direct, you and I, too practical. Ah, Ivan
> Emmetovich, we will make a Russian of you yet.'' He'd
> just Russianized Jack's name. Ivan Emmetovich. John,
> son of Emmet.
Sergei latter in frustration said "What the hell kind of name is 'Emmet'?".
Barker32
狂人
I thought he would know all the names in the world... :) or at least very
clost to... :)
--
===Team OS/2, Team OS/2 at Taiwan, ICE News Beta Tester. Bovine Team===
======Warped Key Crucher, And OS/2 ISP CD Project Member. TBA #3======
Owner of PC End User Web Site http://www.pcenduser.com/
Java 1.1.7 - MR/2 ICE REG#:10510 - OS/2 T-Warp Connect 4.0
ICQ# = 8943567
Jackson C. Myles
Jeez... good thing I wasn't born russian... living life as Vanya Vanyavich
could have been painful...
Jcm
An armed society is a polite society.
Greg Anderson
jcmy...@aol.com12345678 (Jackson C. Myles) wrote:
> >(really Jack == Vanya, I think).
>
> Jeez... good thing I wasn't born russian... living life as Vanya Vanyavich
> could have been painful...
Ouch. Actually, this got me thinking I should clarify my post a bit on
one point.[1]
English -> John
Jack is a diminutive form, although it is also treated as a
stand-alone name these days, I think.
Russian -> Ivan
Vanya is a diminutive form. I'm not sure (DVK?) if it is
more equivalent to ``Jack'' or ``Johnny'' or
just ``my
buddy John''.
But Vanya isn't, to my knowledge, used as part of a patronymic. I believe
the patronymic for someone who's father is John (Ivan) is:
- Ivanovich (for John/Ivan's son)
- Ivanovna (for John/Ivan's daughter)
[1] Can you tell I'm trying to avoid working on the dissertation chapter I
should really be writing?[2]
[2] Note: if any member of my doctoral committee is reading this, I'm working
hard, guys, really I am...
Greg Anderson
<mi...@ultrasnd.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <Pine.GSO.4.10.99072...@quack.cims.nyu.edu>,
> Daniel Khaykis <URL:mailto:kha...@quack.cims.nyu.edu> wrote:
> [snip]
> > [0] The interesting fact is that in Russian, there are 2 versions of my
> > name,
> > Daniel (as in Daniel Defoe[1], author of Robinson Crusoe); and
> > Daniil (which was actually my name and the way it's spelled
> > in all my official documents in US so far).
>
> Hmm, I'm confused. Daniel, shouldn't you be called Daniil <something>ovich?
>
> Or are you saying that there exceptions to the rules? In which case I wonder
> why so much was made of Jack being called Ivan Emmetovich?
>
Unless I'm also confused, I think DVK's name breaks down like:
First name: Daniil (Daniel)
Patronymic: V...ovich [1]
Last name: Khaykis
Of course I'm just guessing. And talking out of my hat. So I probably
should shut up now.
[1] I could try filling in the dots, but that's none of my business, so I'll
leave it at that.
Mike Enderby
Daniel Khaykis <URL:mailto:kha...@quack.cims.nyu.edu> wrote:
[snip]
> [0] The interesting fact is that in Russian, there are 2 versions of my
> name,
> Daniel (as in Daniel Defoe[1], author of Robinson Crusoe); and
> Daniil (which was actually my name and the way it's spelled
> in all my official documents in US so far).
Hmm, I'm confused. Daniel, shouldn't you be called Daniil <something>ovich?
Or are you saying that there exceptions to the rules? In which case I wonder
why so much was made of Jack being called Ivan Emmetovich?
--
Mike Enderby
Flash Gordon exposed himself to all sorts of danger.
m allen adams jr
:could have been painful...
IIRC from my limited knowledge of Russian, Ivan Jr.s often go by
"Vanvanovich" (or something like that). Daniil, can you confirm this?
Daniel Khaykis
> >(really Jack == Vanya, I think).
>
> Jeez... good thing I wasn't born russian... living life as Vanya Vanyavich
> could have been painful...
"vanya" is not used with full name.
it's either Vanya, or Ivan Ivanovich ;)
Daniel Khaykis
> English -> John
> Jack is a diminutive form, although it is also treated as a
> stand-alone name these days, I think.
>
> Russian -> Ivan
> Vanya is a diminutive form. I'm not sure (DVK?) if it is
> more equivalent to ``Jack'' or ``Johnny'' or
> just ``my buddy John''.
"Johnny" is the closest, IMHO.
> But Vanya isn't, to my knowledge, used as part of a patronymic. I believe
> the patronymic for someone who's father is John (Ivan) is:
>
> - Ivanovich (for John/Ivan's son)
> - Ivanovna (for John/Ivan's daughter)
True.
> [1] Can you tell I'm trying to avoid working on the dissertation chapter I
> should really be writing?[2]
Real World - for those who canb't cope with a.b.t-c. <g>
G'luck with dissertation!
Daniel Khaykis
> In article <Pine.GSO.4.10.99072...@quack.cims.nyu.edu>,
> Daniel Khaykis <URL:mailto:kha...@quack.cims.nyu.edu> wrote:
> [snip]
> > [0] The interesting fact is that in Russian, there are 2 versions of my
> > name,
> > Daniel (as in Daniel Defoe[1], author of Robinson Crusoe); and
> > Daniil (which was actually my name and the way it's spelled
> > in all my official documents in US so far).
>
> Hmm, I'm confused. Daniel, shouldn't you be called Daniil <something>ovich?
In Russian, it was "ii". I semi-officially[0] changed it to "ie" here,
since it's a more correct version in both Hebrew and English.
in Russian, DVK=Daniil Vladimirovich Khaykis
in English, it became Daniel <insert my handle> Khaykis.
> Or are you saying that there exceptions to the rules? In which case I wonder
> why so much was made of Jack being called Ivan Emmetovich?
No, the significance of him being called that was the fact that Golovko
respected him so as to do it (since Golovko KNEW American ways, he realized
that a "normal" way would be JR, so in this particular case use of russified
+patronimic name was a sign of big respect).
[0] Officially will be when my application for citizenship finally gets
processed and i will (hopefully) pass the test ;)
Jackson C. Myles
> more equivalent to ``Jack'' or ``Johnny'' or
>just ``my
> buddy John''
Since my first name is Jackson, kinda leaves me out of this I believe...
Richard Slusher
The Russian males are given their first names and their fathers first name
as their middle name.
Ivan is the russian equivalent to John and Ryan's father must have been
named Emmet.
At least that is my understanding of it. I may be wrong...
Richard S.
Michael Ellis
news:Pine.GSO.4.10.99072...@quack.cims.nyu.edu...
While we are on the topic, what is the Russian equivalent of James? I
assume Michael = Mikhael?
--
Michael Ellis
first initial last name at pesa commercial domain
Daniel Khaykis
> While we are on the topic, what is the Russian equivalent of James? I
No clue... dont think there's one. (or may be i just need extra sleep :)
> assume Michael = Mikhael?
Mikhail.
(the diminitive form being Misha, if you ever cared to know :-)
-DVK <-- OK, one more post in this discussion, and i'm snail-mailing TC to
ask him to hurry up with a new book :)
TM
Richard Slusher wrote in message <379bb...@140.158.129.142>...
>Shaun,
>
>The Russian males are given their first names and their fathers first name
>as their middle name.
>
>Ivan is the russian equivalent to John and Ryan's father must have been
>named Emmet.
>
>At least that is my understanding of it. I may be wrong...
>
>Richard S.
SR
From Scottish?
SR
Daniel Khaykis wrote in message ...
Geof F. Morris
Daniel Khaykis <kha...@quack.cims.nyu.edu> had written while I was
drawing:
>-DVK <-- OK, one more post in this discussion, and i'm snail-mailing TC to
> ask him to hurry up with a new book :)
-roflmao- What a sentiment!
GFM
Geof F. Morris
>Sergei Golovko russified Jack Ryan's name in _Cardinal of the Kremlin_.
>Quoting from page 462 of the paperback version, where Ryan and Golovko
>are discussing warning time before on-site disarmament verification
>visits:
The first thing I thought of when I saw Greg's name next in
the thread list was, "Boy, here come some citations." If a new book
won't save us, maybe new blood will. -vbg-
> Grigoriy Fyodrovich Anderson
So, is GFA now your TLA? Oooh, the confusion -- be almost as
bad as GFM and GDM. -wistful sigh-
>[1] Boy, I hope a true Russian scholar might correct me on this one. DVK, are
> you listening?
>
>[2] Anyone know the Russian equivalent of Danielle? (calling DVK...)
Heheh, Daniel and I were discussing his middle name last week.
He kept trying to convince me it was "Vader" . . . -roflmao-
GFM
Geof F. Morris
drawing:
>[0] Officially will be when my application for citizenship finally gets
> processed and i will (hopefully) pass the test ;)
Hey, I want you to get someone with a video camera in the
courtroom the day you get to raise your hand. I'd love to see that.
GFM
狂人
> Heheh, Daniel and I were discussing his middle name last week. He kept
>trying to convince me it was "Vader" . . . -roflmao-
So, does Wei translates to Jedi? :)
ron h
St. Mary's, they were both Zebede's sons?
SR wrote in message ...
m allen adams jr
:> processed and i will (hopefully) pass the test ;)
:
: Hey, I want you to get someone with a video camera in the
:courtroom the day you get to raise your hand. I'd love to see that.
You could sell copies. Then you'd be a true American. I may put in an
order myself.
m allen adams jr
:From Scottish?
:>
:>> While we are on the topic, what is the Russian equivalent of James? I
James in some language (possibly Scottish) is Iago. In Spanish it's Diego.
You may be able to take it from one of those names.
Geof F. Morris
allen adams jr" <the-a...@usa.net.RemoveToReply> had written while I
wasn't studying:
But wait! I could sell it on eBay!
GFM <-- nooooooooooooooooooooo!
Steve Jacquot
Since the supporters of the Scottish King James were called Jacobites,
I've always assumed an equivalence between James and Jacob. This makes
sense in the above context (Jacob ~ Iago ~ Diego) but I don't see how it
ever transmuted into James.
So anyway, Russian for James might be Yakov.
--
Steve Jacquot
sj...@virginia.edu
Chris Vail
The spanish equivalent is Santiago.
Chris (cristobal) Vail
------------------------------------------------------
No dogs in my email address.
m allen adams jr
Actually, Santiago is St. James, usually referencing James the Greater,
whose remains rest at Santiago de Compostelas in Northern Spain -- James the
Less lies in the Church of the Holy Apostles in Rome. Santiago de
Compostelas was once a major pilgrimage site for those who couldn't make it
to Rome or Jerusalem -- they even used to sell souvenir walking sticks for
the trek home (I don't think they had T-Shirts reading "Somebody saw James
the Greater's Grave and All I Got Was This @&%#ing Shirt", though).
Gml...@scvnet.com
> Since the supporters of the Scottish King James were called Jacobites,
> I've always assumed an equivalence between James and Jacob. This makes
> sense in the above context (Jacob ~ Iago ~ Diego) but I don't see how it
> ever transmuted into James.
In a language where Dick means Richard and Jack means John, anything is
possible!
George
Greg Anderson
mor...@email.uah.edu (Geof F. Morris) wrote:
> After finishing the CAD project from hell, I goofed off and saw what
> gand...@san.rr.com (Greg Anderson) had written while I was drawing:
>
> The first thing I thought of when I saw Greg's name next in
> the thread list was, "Boy, here come some citations." If a new book
> won't save us, maybe new blood will. -vbg-
Hmmm....well, if that was your thought, perhaps I should nominate
myself as ``Official ABTC Poster of the Citations''?[1]
And if that goes through, I could nominate myself to be the guy who
convinces his wife it is *vital* that he gets all TC's on full text-searchable
CD-ROM[2] --- because, of course, speed is essential in carrying out such
a vital duty.
On the other hand, finding the references is at least a nice challenge for
my memory.
>
> > Grigoriy Fyodrovich Anderson
>
> So, is GFA now your TLA? Oooh, the confusion -- be almost as
> bad as GFM and GDM. -wistful sigh-
Man, Geof, you *are* NASA (or military!) material --- acronym city.
Remind this poor fool what TLA stands for again?
[1] which I like much better than just ''Official ABTC Poster Who Can't
Think Up Anything Original, So He Just Posts Citations From The Books''.
[2] yeah, *right*
Geof F. Morris
gand...@san.rr.com (Greg Anderson) had written while I wasn't
studying:
>Hmmm....well, if that was your thought, perhaps I should nominate
>myself as ``Official ABTC Poster of the Citations''?[1]
Self-nominations are okay in my book. I called myself leader
of the SPAMSquad, and no one really objected. (I have DVK to mess 'em
all up.)
>And if that goes through, I could nominate myself to be the guy who
>convinces his wife it is *vital* that he gets all TC's on full text-searchable
>CD-ROM[2] --- because, of course, speed is essential in carrying out such
>a vital duty.
Heheheh . . . if you ever get that, I want a copy. Of course,
I imagine that it would have to be done by the publisher, 'twere it
done legally. Tres expensive, no doubt.
>On the other hand, finding the references is at least a nice challenge for
>my memory.
Yeah, it is. Back in the good ol' days (read: in a dorm room
with a LAN connect to a T1, even if the T1 was stretched to thrice the
number of rec'd users), the TC collection was right next to the
computer. Now, my computer is no longer in my bedroom, and my books
are. -sigh- OFW.
>Man, Geof, you *are* NASA (or military!) material --- acronym city.
Hey, I grew up as an USAF brat, even if I never did find out
what CHAMPUS stood for. (Mainly because I never asked.) My dad
started off in SAC, went to AFROTC at UTK, ended up in San Antonio (I
dunno what, other than paper-pushing and wing-wiping), then was in ASD
and later AFLC (now AMC, I think) at WPAFB. -bow-
Of course, I come up with cheesy project acronyms for crazy
NASA projects. Back when my roommate was working on a long-duration
propellant exposure statement, I came up with the PLEES acronym:
Propellant Long Endurance Exposure on Station. Of course, it also
showed the depths to which my roommate would grovel for money.
>Remind this poor fool what TLA stands for again?
Three letter acronym -- therefore a TLA defines the set and is
a member of the set. I think that violates some law of mathematics.
DVK, can you confirm, you math nerd?
>[1] which I like much better than just ''Official ABTC Poster Who Can't
> Think Up Anything Original, So He Just Posts Citations From The Books''.
-lol- Naw, you occasionally pop in with something else.
We're just warming you up to posting like a regular.
>[2] yeah, *right*
I imagine it'll come out at some point. Probably be something
over $200.
GFM
--
<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
Geof F. Morris <-- that's what the GFM stands for . . .
Senior, Aerospace Engineering, UAH http://www.uah.edu/
(Insert witty phrase here.)
<>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <>< <><
Gunnar Evermann
> With finals looming in the distance, I goofed off and saw what
> gand...@san.rr.com (Greg Anderson) had written while I wasn't
> studying:
>
> >Hmmm....well, if that was your thought, perhaps I should nominate
> >myself as ``Official ABTC Poster of the Citations''?[1]
seconded. I found your postings a _very_ pleasant change from the
usual discussions about gun control[1], Clinton, abortion and so on. Keep
going, Greg
> >And if that goes through, I could nominate myself to be the guy who
> >convinces his wife it is *vital* that he gets all TC's on full
> >text-searchable CD-ROM[2] --- because, of course, speed is
> >essential in carrying out such a vital duty.
>
> Heheheh . . . if you ever get that, I want a copy. Of course,
> I imagine that it would have to be done by the publisher, 'twere it
> done legally. Tres expensive, no doubt.
Would it be legal to type in the whole book? Doesn't this fall under
some personal use clause (like making a backup copy of a CD or a
video)? Naturally I wouldn't actually type it but instead cut a
paperback apart and feed it into a scanner and run some OCR program on
that (does anybody know what kind of accuracy one can expect from
current OCR?).
In case somebody is wondering, I'm not planning to do this but if I
had the right kit I might give it a try.
Gunnar
Footnotes:
[1] talking about gun control: the other day Charleton Heston was
interviewed on one of the BBC morning radio shows. It was hilarious!
IMHO he really sounded _very_ stupid, babbling about the constitution,
amendments and the "wise guys" wrote them (this was the day after that
bloke in Atlanta decided to "...to kill as many of the people that
greedily sought [his] destruction"). Heston certainly didn't convince
anybody this side of the Atlantic....