Nathan Rahl
Greg Dalton
What sort of wizard is Nathan Rahl?
If i were to have asked myself a day or two ago i would have set without
question, a prophet. However re-reading Stone of Tears, i came to this point
:
Stone of Tears, chapter 5, page 76 (my publication) ;
"All the others had told the truth about their gift and their capabilities,
but they knew Nathan lied, knew he was not telling them all he was able to
do"
I dont doubt that Nathan isnt a prophet, but this suggests he is more than
that. A War Wizard? Ive given this thought, but decided no. obviously. he
would be able to escape through the shields if he were one, and he can
command his gift at will, as opposed to Richards whole fury / anger thing.
So maybe he isnt a prophet, but then in Blood of the Fold, chapter 41, page
513 ;
zedd says...
"What manner of wizard are you?"
Nathan stood a bit taller."Im a prophet."
At least the man was honest.
Yet it seems there are few wizards to match his skill, as we see the
capabilities of his web weaving in TotW.
I just wondered what anyone elses thoughts were on this? a contradiction? i
dont know. just wondered.
Cheers
Greg
T. Remington
Maybe he stayed behind the sheilds because really, under it all, he
loves Anne and wants to stay, though it comes out in a sort of weird way. I
get the feeling they like each other. Complaining about the barrier and
making a fuss all the time I think is part of his unique idiom.
T.R.
Kram Ttonnis - The Detective Ventriloquist
talent is more than just a simple prophet like Warren. I think he is the
Additive equivalent to Richard and if he required it could contest Zedd as First
Wizard.
Kram
Steve
First Wizard and has earned his right to that title by being the most
powerful of wizards in his generation but Nathan's knowledge scans a
millennium. I would estimate Zedd's age at sixty to seventy give or take
tens years either side. We know that Nathan was taken to the Palace of the
Prophets as a boy and that the aging spell extended his life fivefold if not
more.
On comparison, if Zedd had lived at the palace for as long as Nathan I
believe he would be far more powerful than Nathan ever could be. Nathan has
the edge over Zedd in that he has lived ten or more generations of normal
life spans and would have absorbed knowledge gleened by individuals over
that period.
As for who the most powerful wizard would be, that is a hard question to
answer. True, Nathan did torch a wizard using and intricate light web but we
can't compare because Zedd has not really found himself in that position
yet. Nathan also had the advantage of prophecy. He would know the various
outcomes of certain situations so will be able to make an educated guess as
to what to do. Zedd, on the other hand, walks into every situation blind.
When Clarissa was killed, near end of TOTW, I believed that Nathan knew she
was going to die. This was why he treated her with respect during the last
months of her life. Nathan somehow knew that Warren would unwittingly reveal
to Jagang Nathan's deceit and that Clarissa would forfeit her life. He also
knew that Kahlan would arrive to save the day. That is why he had the magic
book that had started the plague in his possession so he could hand it to
Kahlan so she could save Richard.
Zedd doesn't have Nathan's gift for prophecy but he does have a finer
understanding of magic and it's uses. During the war with D'Hara, before
Richard was born, Zedd produced the battle horns that destroyed the shadow
warriors that, in turn, were decimating the Midland forces. Zedd also
understood and used the constructed magic that created the boundaries
finally sealing off D'Hara from the Midlands and the Midlands from Westland.
Zedd's biggest claim to fame is the fact that he is the only wizard, other
than Richard, who has removed his Rada'Han of his own accord.
To sum up their respective skills Nathan achieves his goals with an indirect
approach, like removing his Rada'Han using a node from the shield on the
outskirts of Tanimura, and Zedd uses the direct approach, like removing the
Rada'Han using his own knowledge of magic.
I think if Nathan and Zedd had a one to one then there would be a few
suprises. Nathan might have the advantage of age but Zedd has the advantage
of understanding. Nathan has always appeared powerful while Zedd appears to
be a bit of a dodery old man but Zedd, in a wizard's rage, can be as fearful
as a female Gar protecting her young. While I would never underestimate
Nathan's abilities I have learned not to even place limits on Zedd's
abilities. Zedd has achieve some mean feats in the past and I'm sure he will
achieve even more in the future.
One final note. Nathan and Zedd both have additive magic only. At the end of
the day it's not what you've got but how you use it, as Vincent found out.
Steve
P.S. Have you noticed that since Richard, Kahlan, Zedd and Chase left the
Midlands all those books ago Richard and His Grandfather have hardly spent
any time together. The only two times I can think of is the day Richard
killed Darken in Wizard's First Rule, one day before Richard, Kahlan and
Savidlin's nipper departed for the Mud Peoples lands on Scarlet's back, and
the other two days are Richard's wedding to Kahlan at the Mud Peoples
village during which time the Chimes started sucking additive magic from the
world. Apart from these three days Zedd and Richard have not even spoken to
each other. I hope TG gets RR and ZZ together for an extended period so that
Grandfather and Son get a chance get re-aquainted. A week would be more than
enough.
"Greg Dalton" <em...@below.com> wrote in message
news:8riq7n$m47$1...@neptunium.btinternet.com...
Greg Dalton
Zedd. And when they were together at the wedding not much was answered.
I think it woud be great if Zedd and Richard sat down and Zedd taught
Richard more about being a wizard. I think that TG has got his story line,
but has made it too complicated and large too quickly and has missed out on
the potential for some of these scenes.
well my opinion anyway.
who knows, maybe book 7 x of the y will have a scene like this. i for one
hope so. i mean they're grandfather / grandson for gods sakes.
Cheers
Greg
Eric42
Steve wrote:
> I think Nathan has had plenty of time to perfect his skill. Zedd may be
> First Wizard and has earned his right to that title by being the most
> powerful of wizards in his generation but Nathan's knowledge scans a
> millennium. I would estimate Zedd's age at sixty to seventy give or take
> tens years either side. We know that Nathan was taken to the Palace of the
> Prophets as a boy and that the aging spell extended his life fivefold if not
> more.
Nathan has had plenty of time to study books and prophecy, but not "perfect" his
gift. Nathan has no true real world experience usage of his gift. Zedd on the
other hand is the Wind of Death, having used his gift for real and has become
the First Wizard thanks to his experience.
> On comparison, if Zedd had lived at the palace for as long as Nathan I
> believe he would be far more powerful than Nathan ever could be. Nathan has
> the edge over Zedd in that he has lived ten or more generations of normal
> life spans and would have absorbed knowledge gleened by individuals over
> that period.
Then Zedd would never have had the world experience that has made him the First
Wizard.
> As for who the most powerful wizard would be, that is a hard question to
> answer. True, Nathan did torch a wizard using and intricate light web but we
> can't compare because Zedd has not really found himself in that position
> yet. Nathan also had the advantage of prophecy. He would know the various
> outcomes of certain situations so will be able to make an educated guess as
> to what to do. Zedd, on the other hand, walks into every situation blind.
Zedd's never blind as long as he has the Wizard Rules in mind. ;)
> When Clarissa was killed, near end of TOTW, I believed that Nathan knew she
> was going to die. This was why he treated her with respect during the last
> months of her life. Nathan somehow knew that Warren would unwittingly reveal
> to Jagang Nathan's deceit and that Clarissa would forfeit her life. He also
> knew that Kahlan would arrive to save the day. That is why he had the magic
> book that had started the plague in his possession so he could hand it to
> Kahlan so she could save Richard.
I don't really know if Nathan knew about Clarissa completely or not, but he
still doesn't have the full expereince at casting the more complex spells that
requires practice and such to master. I'm sure the Sisters of the Light never
could teach him those little details....
> Zedd doesn't have Nathan's gift for prophecy but he does have a finer
> understanding of magic and it's uses. During the war with D'Hara, before
> Richard was born, Zedd produced the battle horns that destroyed the shadow
> warriors that, in turn, were decimating the Midland forces. Zedd also
> understood and used the constructed magic that created the boundaries
> finally sealing off D'Hara from the Midlands and the Midlands from Westland.
> Zedd's biggest claim to fame is the fact that he is the only wizard, other
> than Richard, who has removed his Rada'Han of his own accord.
I wouldn't say Zedd has a better understanding, but he does have the
experience. He once said that when he was casting the spell for the boundries,
that he was using magic that he didn't completely understand. However, he did
know enough to get the boundries up, but that's where his experience as the
First Wizard came into play.
> To sum up their respective skills Nathan achieves his goals with an indirect
> approach, like removing his Rada'Han using a node from the shield on the
> outskirts of Tanimura, and Zedd uses the direct approach, like removing the
> Rada'Han using his own knowledge of magic.
Nathan is more devious while Zedd is more straight forward. Both are dangerous
in their own right. ;)
> I think if Nathan and Zedd had a one to one then there would be a few
> suprises. Nathan might have the advantage of age but Zedd has the advantage
> of understanding. Nathan has always appeared powerful while Zedd appears to
> be a bit of a dodery old man but Zedd, in a wizard's rage, can be as fearful
> as a female Gar protecting her young. While I would never underestimate
> Nathan's abilities I have learned not to even place limits on Zedd's
> abilities. Zedd has achieve some mean feats in the past and I'm sure he will
> achieve even more in the future.
>
> One final note. Nathan and Zedd both have additive magic only. At the end of
> the day it's not what you've got but how you use it, as Vincent found out.
>
> Steve
>
> P.S. Have you noticed that since Richard, Kahlan, Zedd and Chase left the
> Midlands all those books ago Richard and His Grandfather have hardly spent
> any time together. The only two times I can think of is the day Richard
> killed Darken in Wizard's First Rule, one day before Richard, Kahlan and
> Savidlin's nipper departed for the Mud Peoples lands on Scarlet's back, and
> the other two days are Richard's wedding to Kahlan at the Mud Peoples
> village during which time the Chimes started sucking additive magic from the
> world. Apart from these three days Zedd and Richard have not even spoken to
> each other. I hope TG gets RR and ZZ together for an extended period so that
> Grandfather and Son get a chance get re-aquainted. A week would be more than
> enough.
Nathan Rahl, in my opinion, is about as close to a War Wizard as one can get
without actually being one. Nathan is just shaping his prophecies into the way
he wants them to be. Which Warren was never able to do, of course. Nathan is
doing what he believe needs to be done and making a few things happen the way he
wants them to happen, which is somewhat like Richard does when he acts on his
instinct.
btw, just got a thought. Now, Richard learned of the First Wizard ancestor of
his, whose name I forget at the moment, who was also a War Wizard. (Alec Rahl?
I can't remember...) Using this as an example, if/when Zedd passes away, would
that make Richard the new First Wizard? Imagine that title stacked upon all the
others he has...
--
Eric42 - eri...@planetc.com
"Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to
discovering them. Reason is our only way of grasping reality--it's our basic
tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason,
but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see."
- Richard Rahl, from "Faith of the Fallen" by Terry Goodkind
"Your life is yours alone. Rise up and live it."
- inscription on statue, from "Faith of the Fallen" by Terry Goodkind
Steve
your peril.
> Nathan Rahl, in my opinion, is about as close to a War Wizard as one can
get
> without actually being one. Nathan is just shaping his prophecies into
the way
> he wants them to be. Which Warren was never able to do, of course.
Nathan is
> doing what he believe needs to be done and making a few things happen the
way he
> wants them to happen, which is somewhat like Richard does when he acts on
his
> instinct.
>
> btw, just got a thought. Now, Richard learned of the First Wizard
ancestor of
> his, whose name I forget at the moment, who was also a War Wizard. (Alec
Rahl?
> I can't remember...) Using this as an example, if/when Zedd passes away,
would
> that make Richard the new First Wizard? Imagine that title stacked upon
all the
> others he has...
>
> --
> Eric42 - eri...@planetc.com
Alric Rahl, if memory serves me right, is the wizard ruler of D'Hara that
conceived the idea of the bond to protect his people from the interference
from the dreamwalkers.
Richard's war wizzard predecessor was a guy called Baracus/Bacarus (can
never remember which way round you spell that). It is B's gear that Richard
now wears. As far as I know B's heritage isn't known so while he may be of
D'Haran stock he probably isn't.
Nathan was obviously considered dangerous enough for sisters to travel to
the new world and take him when he was a boy. When Nathan was a child there
were no doubt many wizzards who would have been willing to teach him his
gift. From what I've understood of the books Ann is nearly as old as Nathan
so it wouldn't have been her that had taken him. I wonder what happened to
the sisters that took Nathan. Would they still be alive since they would
have already lived at the Palace for a hundred years or so before even
venturing out to take Nathan.
Kahlan has blamed Ann for bringing about the prophecy that Nathan has
predicted by kidnapping Richard in the first place. Kahlan believes that if
Verna had not travelled to the Midlands to take Richard then none of their
problems would exist. I think that this prophecy thing stretches far beyond
Nathan and Ann. I think Ann's predecessor knew enough about the future
events as to arrange Nathan's kidnapping and Ann's training to become
prelate so as to ensure the future of all magical creatures from the far off
threat of the last dreamwalker.
Steve
Kram Ttonnis - The Detective Ventriloquist
That is some in depth thinking going on there but it sounds quite possible but
the would also inply that maybe the wizards of old knew about this prophecy so
they inturn built the palace to house the Sister so they could take Nathan and
train him at the same time as training Ann to become Prelate so that inturn they
could take Richard who could then be taught by Nathan the nature of his gift ,
but as I said that is wayout there thinking
Kram
Steve wrote:
> Some SPOILER at the end of this post. If you haven't read FOTF then read at
> your peril.
>
>
>
Joshua Early
near 1000 years under the protection of the spell of the Palace of
Prophets.Most of which he was in almost total seclusion( or so the sisters
were led to believe[remember, he took a trip or two to the new world with
Ann]) and that kind of time to study one's limitations, and powers can lead
to some amazing discoveries.
Warren was "just a prophet" yet he could heal, he could cast balls of air,
and fire, and if i remember correctly the sisters of the dark were afraid
that he would make Wizard's Life Fire when they captured him for Jangag.
So, while Nathan is primairly a prophet, he has had the time to develop some
amazing powers. Just not the subtractive side of magic, otherwise he would
be out scoring with all the ladies, and looking" dashing with a sword".
Josh
"Kram Ttonnis - The Detective Ventriloquist" <refle...@clara.net> wrote
in message news:39DD8972...@clara.net...
> I've got a feeling that Nathan is a lot like Richard in many ways, i.e.
his
> talent is more than just a simple prophet like Warren. I think he is the
> Additive equivalent to Richard and if he required it could contest Zedd as
First
> Wizard.
>
> Kram
>
> Greg Dalton wrote:
>
> > What sort of wizard is Nathan Rahl?
> >
> > If i were to have asked myself a day or two ago i would have set without
> > question, a prophet. However re-reading Stone of Tears, i came to this
point
> > :
> > Stone of Tears, chapter 5, page 76 (my publication) ;
> > "All the others had told the truth about their gift and their
capabilities,
> > but they knew Nathan lied, knew he was not telling them all he was able
to
> > do"
> >
Steve
headaches (TOTW) the only one who could help Warren was Nathan. Nathan may
have been secluded but a number of the prophecies affecting Richard were
delivered by Nathan. How many prophecies has Nathan had and how many has he
kept quiet. I remember a passage from Stone of Tears in which Margaret tells
Nathan that his action of telling a young woman a prophecy lead to the
deaths of thousand of innocents. Nathan replied that one of those innocents
would have grown into a tyrant killing thousands upon thousands of
innocents. Nathan was able to stem this fork of a prophecy by leaking
another prophecy. No-one but Nathan knew of the prophecy's existance until
he divulged this to Margaret. Makes me wonder that Nathan isn't so secluded
after all. He probably knows more about the world than anyone else in the
series.
At the end of the day it's not the fact that they have the gift but how they
use it. Nathan, when using his gift, is very clever. After all, he managed
to kill a wizard, Vincent, who should have been more powerful than him with
nothing more than a light spell cast in an unusual way.
Steve
"Joshua Early" <jea...@ccrtc.com> wrote in message
news:suic9p5...@corp.supernews.com...
Travis Romans
Here is feather to put in your hat. What if another prophet, One not
yet mentioned, told the sisters to go and get Nathan to help save the
world?
SPOILERS READ AT YOUR OWN RISK
Remember that Nathan started a civil war to PREVENT a future ruler that
would have killed more people than died in the civil war. Also lets not
forget the heroic deeds of our poor Warren. Lost but not forgotten.
Steve
"Travis Romans" <jeter...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:9898-39E...@storefull-254.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
That was a point brought up in one of my previous posts. Who ordered
Nathan's kidnapping from D'Hara in the first place. Ann's not as old as
Nathan so it's reasonable to assume that a former Prelate ordered Nathan's
abduction and this former Prelate also groomed Ann for the ascendancy to
Prelate. Only Terry knows the answer.
Steve
markw...@home.com
"Steve" <steve....@btinternet.com> wrote:
>I remember a passage from Stone of Tears in which Margaret tells
> Nathan that his action of telling a young woman a prophecy lead to the
> deaths of thousand of innocents. Nathan replied that one of those
innocents
> would have grown into a tyrant killing thousands upon thousands of
> innocents. Nathan was able to stem this fork of a prophecy by leaking
> another prophecy. No-one but Nathan knew of the prophecy's existance
until
> he divulged this to Margaret.
Hey Steve,
Actually, he didn't say one of those killed "would" grow up to be a
tyrant. What he did was only to suggest the possibility. It was left
up to Margaret to decide if Nathan was telling the truth. And this, my
friend, is the sublety that makes him so dangerous. Miss this about
him and one can get into serious problems...ie Vincent. Still, if it
came to the cruntch, give me Zedd on my side any day of the week.
Nathan could live to be a million and never have what Zedd has.
Hope you are all doing well.
OleBlighty
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Steve
killed may bare a child who would grow up to be a tyrant.
Later, in another book, can't remember which one though, Ann told Verna,
through the journey book, that Nathan was known to influence prophecy
himself and quoted that very same incident. Ann told Verna that it wasn't
until much later that she realised that Nathan had choked off an extremely
dangerous prophecy all by himself. All that time they had thought Nathan an
idiot for telling a young woman a prophecy when instead he was being
extremely clever.
As for who's best then I too would have Zedd on my side. If I didn't have
to chose then I'd have both on my side as their abilities would complement
each other.
Steve
Andy
but they have one area in which they excel. Just like some people are
very talented at a number of tasks, but there is one task they can do
better then most. I think thats how it works.
andy
Andy
richard would be a bad idea, b/c zedd's teaching my instill on richard a
limitation to his power that doesn't really exist. He was afraid that
if him limited richard with the traditional way of thinking, it would
trap him, and would be unable to do the needed things. Just like at the
end of Soul of the Fire, when richard had to think about magic in ways
never before thought (with the exception of Ander) to banish the chimes
again.
I did find it odd that they didn't seem as friendly as they did in WFR.
They seemed much more distant and cold to each other when tehy were
together, but when they were apart they seemed to miss each other. It
was an odd meeting then i guess..
Andy
Andy
> experience. He once said that when he was casting the spell for the boundries,
> that he was using magic that he didn't completely understand. However, he did
> know enough to get the boundries up, but that's where his experience as the
> First Wizard came into play.
Right, and i think in SOT, Adie said he had in fact done it wrong, and
had to 'punch holes in it to relieve some pressure.'