The meaning of CROATON
Kent Daniel Bentkowski
Well, THAT certainly was a nasty little tale, wasn't it?
Hmmm . . . .
I say now more than ever; LINOGE is RANDALL FLAGG!
Another thing I noticed was that LINOGE walked everywhere he went
on Little Tall Island. FLAGG has "the walking dude" as one of his
aliases in THE STAND.
But, let me clue you in as to what the meaning of CROATON is:
In the script/book of SOTC, on page 371, it says the following:
"Camera slips along the length of the boat. Written across the
rear seat in either red paint or lipstick is a single word:
"CROATON."
This is actually a misspelling.
In the Microsoft ENCARTA Reference Suite 99, I discovered the
following in the historical timeline of BOOKSHELF 99:
=== AUGUST 1590 ===
John White returns to resupply the colony he founded three years
earlier on Roanoke Island (in present-day North Carolina), North
America, but the only trace remaining is the word "Croatoan"
carved on a tree.
(c) 1999 Microsoft Corp. All rights reserved.
Sheesh! I was wondering about that myself . . .
Another mystery solved!
Next----?
=============================================
Kent Daniel Bentkowski
Buffalo, New York
=============================================
KentD...@msn.com
=============================================
"If you're NOT experienced, GET experienced!"
--- Jimi Hendrix, 1967
=============================================
Steve Bergeron
>
> I say now more than ever; LINOGE is RANDALL FLAGG!
>
> Another thing I noticed was that LINOGE walked everywhere he went
> on Little Tall Island. FLAGG has "the walking dude" as one of his
> aliases in THE STAND.
>
How's does that clinch it? Flagg also used the form of a wolf and a
crow (more often) to "move around". This would seem to suggest that
they are NOT the same.
Give it up. Why do all of King's evil entities have to be the same?
There's more than enough evil in the world to spread it around.
stevenb
Chris Augustine
>Greetings!
Hello.
>Well, THAT certainly was a nasty little tale, wasn't it?
>
>Hmmm . . . .
>
>I say now more than ever; LINOGE is RANDALL FLAGG!
Could be. So many points for and against that. For one thing, Flagg was
immortal. Linoge was dying. However, Linoge really did ACT like Flagg, with
the whole "my friends" schtick. During the town meeting, I noticed several
moments when he went from being an evil monster one minute (figuratively, I
mean), to a nice guy just doing what he has to do the next. This is classic
Flagg stuff. I dunno. I can't make up my mind on this one.
>Another thing I noticed was that LINOGE walked everywhere he went
>on Little Tall Island. FLAGG has "the walking dude" as one of his
>aliases in THE STAND.
Good point.
>But, let me clue you in as to what the meaning of CROATON is:
I already know this, but okay ... :)
>In the script/book of SOTC, on page 371, it says the following:
>
>"Camera slips along the length of the boat. Written across the
>rear seat in either red paint or lipstick is a single word:
>"CROATON."
>
>This is actually a misspelling.
>
>In the Microsoft ENCARTA Reference Suite 99, I discovered the
>following in the historical timeline of BOOKSHELF 99:
>
>=== AUGUST 1590 ===
>
>John White returns to resupply the colony he founded three years
>earlier on Roanoke Island (in present-day North Carolina), North
>America, but the only trace remaining is the word "Croatoan"
>carved on a tree.
That whole Roanoke/Croatoan story REALLY scares the hell outta me. It has
ever since I first learned about it in grade school. It just freaks me out.
If you get a chance, get a history textbook or something and get a more
detailed report of the whole tale, that little blurb didn't do it justice. I
bet it'll send a chill up your spine, too. :)
Chris Augustine
Kent Daniel Bentkowski
In the first place, it is Stephen King who is inserting the
numerous references to good vs. evil into his stories, and FLAGG
just so happens to appear all over the place in Steve's work. I
have been reading this stuff since CARRIE was out (CARRIE - 25th
Anniversary on 4/6/99!), so I happen to know quite a bit about
what I am speaking of here. I was also a contributor to CASTLE
ROCK, something I did a handful of times over the life of the
publication. So, if Stephanie Leonard (editor and SK's secretary
and Tabby's sister) thought enough of my theories to publish them
in the "official Stephen King newsletter," then perhaps I have a
little more insight into this stuff than you first realized.
And secondly, this newsgroup exists for discussion on SK and his
works. So, if you are tired of the FLAGG/LINOGE thread, move to
another . . . but, I certainly am NOT gonna GIVE IT UP, as you
suggest I do. Perhaps it is you, who should go back, and do a
little more reading, and then you might be able to open up to the
possibilities.
Finally, in literary terms, the RANDALL FLAGG subplot in SK's
work is called a WRAPAROUND STORY. It is a consistent theme and
sometimes plot as well, that winds its' way through the larger
body of work. It is no different than using the fictional town of
CASTLE ROCK as a character in some of his stories, or the Creep
in CREEPSHOW. The WRAPAROUND STORY was also used in the SK movie
CAT'S EYE, with the cat, General, as the wraparound figure.
One of the best parts of being a collector of SK, as well as a
Constant Reader; is to try to imagine where he will ultimately
take Roland in his quest for the Dark Tower, or what other ideas
will he try to keep things interesting, as well as keeping me
searching for that next piece to add to my collection.
By your comments, I am supposed to stifle myself because YOU
don't like what I am saying, if I understand your writing
correctly. But, my misguided man, this is America, where there is
something called FREEDOM OF SPEECH . . . so, why don't YOU give
it up?!?
=============================================
Kent Daniel Bentkowski
Buffalo, New York
=============================================
KentD...@msn.com
=============================================
"If you're NOT experienced, GET experienced!"
--- Jimi Hendrix, 1967
=============================================
Steve Bergeron <berg...@nospam.us.ibm.com> wrote in message
news:36CD23...@nospam.us.ibm.com...
Kent Daniel Bentkowski wrote:
>> I say now more than ever; LINOGE is RANDALL FLAGG!
>>
>> Another thing I noticed was that LINOGE walked everywhere he
>> went on Little Tall Island. FLAGG has "the walking dude" as
>> one of his aliases in THE STAND.
>>
>>
Nora
> >on Little Tall Island. FLAGG has "the walking dude" as one of his
> >aliases in THE STAND.
>
>
Yeah, but it's an ISLAND. During a really big STORM. Is he supposed to take a
plane or drive a car?
> That whole Roanoke/Croatoan story REALLY scares the hell outta me. It has
> ever since I first learned about it in grade school. It just freaks me out.
> If you get a chance, get a history textbook or something and get a more
> detailed report of the whole tale, that little blurb didn't do it justice. I
> bet it'll send a chill up your spine, too. :)
From what I understand the colonists of Roanoke were left there with one years
supply of food. The ships were supposed to return a year later with more
supplies, etc. They took longer than they were supposed to, in fact, they
didn't return until two years later. The colonists, with no food, abandoned the
town and Sir Walter Raliegh, and joined the neighboring indians, the Croatan's.
When the ships finally returned and began exploring, they found several small
children with blue eyes and other caucasion features.
Sorry if this takes the mystery away from you:) But, it's just a theory, they
never could actually PROVE anything, the only evidence they found were children
with blue eys and blonde/red hair.
Nora
tre...@yahoo.com
"Kent Daniel Bentkowski" <KentD...@email.msn.com> wrote:
> Give it up? Never!
>
> In the first place, it is Stephen King who is inserting the
> numerous references to good vs. evil into his stories, and FLAGG
> just so happens to appear all over the place in Steve's work.
But is all evil Flagg? King maybe sticking references here and there but did
he actually say Linoge, or Gaunt, etc was Flagg? That's what the posters
message was on, and I agree. Not all King villains or stories are DT related
unless specifically linked to the DT saga. Its common to use themes, ideas,
and places over and over, and thus many stories may appear connected but not
neccesarilt.
> I
> have been reading this stuff since CARRIE was out (CARRIE - 25th
> Anniversary on 4/6/99!), so I happen to know quite a bit about
> what I am speaking of here.
Gee, I bet most others here have read most everything of his too.
>I was also a contributor to CASTLE
> ROCK, something I did a handful of times over the life of the
> publication. So, if Stephanie Leonard (editor and SK's secretary
> and Tabby's sister) thought enough of my theories to publish them
> in the "official Stephen King newsletter," then perhaps I have a
> little more insight into this stuff than you first realized.
Well, then it all must be true.
> And secondly, this newsgroup exists for discussion on SK and his
> works. So, if you are tired of the FLAGG/LINOGE thread, move to
> another . . . but, I certainly am NOT gonna GIVE IT UP, as you
> suggest I do. Perhaps it is you, who should go back, and do a
> little more reading, and then you might be able to open up to the
> possibilities.
And perhaps after reading all King's stuff he has decided that some stories
are not connected to this DT Grand Unification Theory. Just because the guy
didn't have your same conclusion doens't mean he's wrong.
> Finally, in literary terms, the RANDALL FLAGG subplot in SK's
> work is called a WRAPAROUND STORY. It is a consistent theme and
> sometimes plot as well, that winds its' way through the larger
> body of work. It is no different than using the fictional town of
> CASTLE ROCK as a character in some of his stories, or the Creep
> in CREEPSHOW. The WRAPAROUND STORY was also used in the SK movie
> CAT'S EYE, with the cat, General, as the wraparound figure.
Thanks teach. I'm sure Mr. B knows this.
> One of the best parts of being a collector of SK, as well as a
> Constant Reader; is to try to imagine where he will ultimately
> take Roland in his quest for the Dark Tower, or what other ideas
> will he try to keep things interesting, as well as keeping me
> searching for that next piece to add to my collection.
That's where we and some differ. You read King looking for signs of
connection to a 4 book series (so far) and its characters' cosmic quest while
I may look for references to other stories too (its expected) butI don't
connect everything to DT, I don't obess whether a villain is DT related, or
Flagg in disguise. There is a lot of evil in King's land to go around. It
spoils the fun of everything sometimes. Sometimes a cigar is a cigar.
Sometimes a story exists unto itself--even if a character from one book shows
up.
> By your comments, I am supposed to stifle myself because YOU
> don't like what I am saying, if I understand your writing
> correctly. But, my misguided man, this is America, where there is
> something called FREEDOM OF SPEECH . . . so, why don't YOU give
> it up?!?
Exactly my motto. If you don't like someone disputing your beliefs then go to
another group or thread. He didn't say to shutup, or go away, he just
expressed a belief of his. Tolerate it, its America.
Aaron
Godzilla News: http://monsterzero.org/index2.html
Japanese Monster Movie List
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Steve Bergeron
confusing, so allow me to arrange them it a little better (I hope)
order.
Kent said:
> I say now more than ever; LINOGE is RANDALL FLAGG!
>
> Another thing I noticed was that LINOGE walked everywhere he
> went on Little Tall Island. FLAGG has "the walking dude" as
> one of his aliases in THE STAND.
And I responded:
>How's does that clinch it? Flagg also used the form of a wolf
>and a crow (more often) to "move around". This would seem to
>suggest that they are NOT the same.
>
>Give it up.
And then Kent retorted:
>
> Give it up? Never!
>
> In the first place, it is Stephen King who is inserting the
> numerous references to good vs. evil into his stories, and FLAGG
> just so happens to appear all over the place in Steve's work. I
> have been reading this stuff since CARRIE was out (CARRIE - 25th
> Anniversary on 4/6/99!), so I happen to know quite a bit about
> what I am speaking of here. I was also a contributor to CASTLE
> ROCK, something I did a handful of times over the life of the
> publication. So, if Stephanie Leonard (editor and SK's secretary
> and Tabby's sister) thought enough of my theories to publish them
> in the "official Stephen King newsletter," then perhaps I have a
> little more insight into this stuff than you first realized.
I'm well aware of the existence of Flagg throughout his work. Thank you
for posting your credentials. I guess just because I choose not to
publish my insights (except on this medium), I have no more insight than
you. Plus, last I knew, I was only stating my opinion on the matter.
>
> And secondly, this newsgroup exists for discussion on SK and his
> works. So, if you are tired of the FLAGG/LINOGE thread, move to
> another . . . but, I certainly am NOT gonna GIVE IT UP, as you
> suggest I do. Perhaps it is you, who should go back, and do a
> little more reading, and then you might be able to open up to the
> possibilities.
Oh, I'm probably one of the more open-minded people you'll find here in
the newsgroup. The reason I suggested that you "give it up" (and in
hindsight I should have put a smiley in there) is that your connection
between Linoge walking everywhere (oh, except where he glides and flys)
and a Flagg nickname (the walking dude) is pretty lame. Any other
connection you want to suggest, I'll be glad to entertain. But come
on. That's almost as bad as Michael constantly reading sexual meanings
into practically every phrase he reads in a King book. (And
proliferously posting about those insights).
>
> Finally, in literary terms, the RANDALL FLAGG subplot in SK's
> work is called a WRAPAROUND STORY. It is a consistent theme and
> sometimes plot as well, that winds its' way through the larger
> body of work. It is no different than using the fictional town of
> CASTLE ROCK as a character in some of his stories, or the Creep
> in CREEPSHOW. The WRAPAROUND STORY was also used in the SK movie
> CAT'S EYE, with the cat, General, as the wraparound figure.
Did I imply somewhere that I did not know what a WRAPAROUND STORY is, or
that I didn't see FLAGG as a WRAPAROUND FIGURE? If Linoge is Flagg and
is another use of the WRAPAROUND FIGURE, then why didn't Steve friggin
call the entity in 'Storm' Flagg?
>
> One of the best parts of being a collector of SK, as well as a
> Constant Reader; is to try to imagine where he will ultimately
> take Roland in his quest for the Dark Tower, or what other ideas
> will he try to keep things interesting, as well as keeping me
> searching for that next piece to add to my collection.
I don't know what being a collector has to do with it. All you have to
be is a Constant Reader to imagine what's coming next. And I'm a
collector too, BTW.
>
> By your comments, I am supposed to stifle myself because YOU
> don't like what I am saying, if I understand your writing
> correctly. But, my misguided man, this is America, where there is
> something called FREEDOM OF SPEECH . . . so, why don't YOU give
> it up?!?
>
Well, actually the internet IS international, so somewhere in the world
what we are doing here COULD be illegal... but I digress. I am not
trying to stifle your comments. What you should give up is trying to
make connections with such tenuous strings.
stevenb
Glrk? Gfunrk!
> on Little Tall Island. FLAGG has "the walking dude" as one of his
> aliases in THE STAND.
What about when he is flying with his cane?
> rear seat in either red paint or lipstick is a single word:
> "CROATON."
>
> This is actually a misspelling.
How do you know it's not deliberate? SK does do research for
his work, after all. And he hints that it might be Linoge's
real name(and history is the misspelling ;P). I'm not saying
it isn't a mistake, but you're awfully arrogant. Did you
sit behind him while he wrote it?
-G
