The Bad Death of Harold Lauder (spoilers)
Nassim Abed
did that kill him right away? No wait, that caused him to break his legs,
right? And then he despaired and in regret he slashed his wrists, right? or
did he shoot himself? Oh I don't remember....
KAH
Nassim Abed wrote in message
***SPOILERS***
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He shot himself.
KAH
Whoever
KAH wrote in message <85b8pd$8l0$1...@bob.news.rcn.net>...
With a shotgun in the mouth while crying hot tears or regret, right? Under
the eyes of Larry Underwood, right? Tom Cullen died in the blast along with
Nick Andros, right?
Nassim Abed
Nathan wrote in message ...
"Whoever" <h...@nah.no> wrote in message
news:94750235...@opti.cyberia.net.lb...
>
> KAH wrote in message <85b8pd$8l0$1...@bob.news.rcn.net>...
> >
> >Nassim Abed wrote in message
> >>I do recall that Flagg put an oil spill to cause his motorcycle to slip
> but
> >>did that kill him right away? No wait, that caused him to break his
legs,
> >>right? And then he despaired and in regret he slashed his wrists, right?
> or
> >>did he shoot himself? Oh I don't remember....
> >
> >
> >He shot himself.
> >
> >
> >KAH
>
> With a shotgun in the mouth while crying hot tears or regret, right? Under
> the eyes of Larry Underwood, right? Tom Cullen died in the blast along
with
> Nick Andros, right?
>
> ****MAJOR SPOILERS****
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Flagg allowed Nadine to chose how Harold would die once he wasn't needed
anymore. He went off the edge of a steep embankment and broke both of his
legs. He crawled back up to the top (after taking a few close shots at
Nadine) where he wrote a letter about how sorry he was for what he had done.
He shot himself with the shotgun and was found later by Larry, Stu, and
Glen.
Larry and Glen were killed in the blast, while Nick (killed by Harold in the
bomb blast) appeared to Tom Cullen in a dream and told him where to find Stu
(who was injured and left behind on the trip to Vegas). Tom nursed Stu
through the injuries, infections, etc.
Tracicle
>Yes yes! SCREW King for killing Larry and Glen!
Not necessarily...
Glen was old and personally, I never felt he was a particularly "warm"
character -- by which I mean I didn't develop a feeling for him like I did
with Tom, or Stu, of Nick. Didn't bother me overly that he died. And
besides, he was such a philosophical person that he may well have known that
this would be a grand gesture -- one that would defeat Flagg and lead to the
ultimate survival of the Free Zone.
Larry's death was penance for the life he had led. Larry probably (I
haven't read the book in ages) felt he was making up for a life of
selfishness by dying for the Free Zone. His drug-taking rock 'n' roll
lifestyle became, to him, an embarrassment, and I think he spent most of his
time in the Free Zone trying to atone for that lifestyle. That, and his
assumed responsibility for Rita Blakemore's death.
Both died for good reason, and I think King was well justified in killing
both of these characters. As for Nick, I wasn't impressed <g>
Trace
--
Kira's evil twin >; )
CotBSig #20, CotCSig #77
JGM
> Nassim Abed wrote in message <94751690...@opti.cyberia.net.lb>...
> >Yes yes! SCREW King for killing Larry and Glen!
>
> Glen was old and personally, I never felt he was a particularly "warm"
> character -- by which I mean I didn't develop a feeling for him like I did
> with Tom, or Stu, of Nick. Didn't bother me overly that he died. And
> besides, he was such a philosophical person that he may well have known that
> this would be a grand gesture -- one that would defeat Flagg and lead to the
> ultimate survival of the Free Zone.
I have trouble with the idea that every character the reader likes should be
"allowed" to live (and conversely, that all the bad guys should die); this makes
for shallow and predictable writing. Sacrifice (and penance, as Trace pointed
out) is one of the recurrent themes of The Stand -- those guys essentially knew
and accepted that they would likely be sacrificial lambs when they agreed to
Mother Abigail's orders.
I liked Glen a lot. I also think his death is one of the coolest moments King
ever wrote: it evokes a wild combination of grief, elation, hate, and
satisfaction. (Dayna's sacrifice is another similarly thrilling moment). If
you gotta go, who wouldn't want to go out that way -- simultaneously spitting
and laughing in the face of evil.
> Larry's death was penance for the life he had led. Larry probably (I
> haven't read the book in ages) felt he was making up for a life of
> selfishness by dying for the Free Zone.
Right, but not so consciously, I think. Larry had finally stopped making
excuses and kidding himself about himself. He had a kind of religious
conversion (though if I recall correctly -- it's been a long time for me too --
his faith was more in Mother Abigail than in God), and was finally at peace with
himself. Besides, I always felt King let Larry off the hook when he brought in
Trash's surprise rather than proceed with the impending tractor-pull.
> Both died for good reason, and I think King was well justified in killing
> both of these characters.
Can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.
JGM
Whoever
but he was a decent man. And you're right, you haven't read it in ages
because Larry was not responsible for Rita's death. He was sorry for her, of
course, but it is not your fault if someone pukes while asleep and chokes on
her own vomit. Her death is definitely not Larry's fault. Larry,
furthermore, had to put up with more horrid situations than anyone else
including Stu. As a matter of fact, I don't recall Stu having to face
anything except the young teenage "foolishness" of Harold Lauder. As for
Fran, I hate her guts the way she broke Harold's young and inexperienced
heart. If you don't like someone you don't just step on his heart, you find
a way of saying no other than sleeping with someone else and making it
obvious.
You know why you make me sick? Because you are saying "Glen was a
philosopher thus he was not warm thus I don't give a shit if he lives or
dies" and this is worse than what Lloyed did with his bunny rabbit pet when
he was a kid.
Nick was good. Nicholas Andros was a fine man. He was the martyr in all this
mess. He was the hero, I say. Not Stu. Oh definitely not Stu.
Tracicle wrote in message ...
>Nassim Abed wrote in message <94751690...@opti.cyberia.net.lb>...
>>Yes yes! SCREW King for killing Larry and Glen!
>
>Not necessarily...
>
>Glen was old and personally, I never felt he was a particularly "warm"
>character -- by which I mean I didn't develop a feeling for him like I did
>with Tom, or Stu, of Nick. Didn't bother me overly that he died. And
>besides, he was such a philosophical person that he may well have known
that
>this would be a grand gesture -- one that would defeat Flagg and lead to
the
>ultimate survival of the Free Zone.
>
>Larry's death was penance for the life he had led. Larry probably (I
>haven't read the book in ages) felt he was making up for a life of
>selfishness by dying for the Free Zone. His drug-taking rock 'n' roll
>lifestyle became, to him, an embarrassment, and I think he spent most of
his
>time in the Free Zone trying to atone for that lifestyle. That, and his
>assumed responsibility for Rita Blakemore's death.
>
>Both died for good reason, and I think King was well justified in killing
Shannon T.
>
> >
> > ****MAJOR SPOILERS****
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Larry and Glen were killed in the blast, while Nick (killed by Harold in the
> bomb blast) appeared to Tom Cullen in a dream and told him where to find Stu
> (who was injured and left behind on the trip to Vegas). Tom nursed Stu
> through the injuries, infections, etc.
To be really picky, it was Larry and *Ralph* who were killed in the
blast. Glen was shot beforehand in his jail cell by Lloyd at Flagg's
insistence. And I always felt that Glen was a loveable old coot. I
really enjoyed his discourses on sociology after the apocalypse. I was
never particularly close to Ralph and kind of wondered why he was
"chosen" to be one of the sacrificed.
--
Shannon T.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
DO NOT REPLY TO sturl...@netscape.net. That address is only used
for posting and does not accept email. To reply by email, use
shannon <at> arcana.com
Nathan
> >
> >Nassim Abed wrote in message
> but
> >>did that kill him right away? No wait, that caused him to break his
legs,
> >>right? And then he despaired and in regret he slashed his wrists, right?
> or
> >>did he shoot himself? Oh I don't remember....
> >
> >
> >He shot himself.
> >
> >
> >KAH
>
> With a shotgun in the mouth while crying hot tears or regret, right? Under
> the eyes of Larry Underwood, right? Tom Cullen died in the blast along
with
> Nick Andros, right?
>
> ****MAJOR SPOILERS****
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Flagg allowed Nadine to chose how Harold would die once he wasn't needed
anymore. He went off the edge of a steep embankment and broke both of his
legs. He crawled back up to the top (after taking a few close shots at
Nadine) where he wrote a letter about how sorry he was for what he had done.
He shot himself with the shotgun and was found later by Larry, Stu, and
Glen.
char...@webtv.net
They said Larry's ASSUMED responsibilty for her death. He did feel
responsible. His death was attonement for that.
Nassim Abed
so he thought, as with real life, nothing got to be fair or to make sense so
he killed Larry and let Stu and Fran live and he shot the loveable old coot
I also adored. So stupidly, just as what real life sounds like, eh my
friends?
Shannon T. wrote in message <387A6B78...@netscape.net>...
Nathan wrote:
>
> >
> > ****MAJOR SPOILERS****
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Larry and Glen were killed in the blast, while Nick (killed by Harold in
the
> bomb blast) appeared to Tom Cullen in a dream and told him where to find
Stu
> (who was injured and left behind on the trip to Vegas). Tom nursed Stu
> through the injuries, infections, etc.
To be really picky, it was Larry and *Ralph* who were killed in the
Absinthe
ending" and have the hero come to a bad end. I think about Cujo the movie & the
book. I wasn't too impressed by the movie and ended up almost feeling sorry for
the rabid dog. The boy lived. The book, on the other hand, disturbed me which
can be a good thing in small amounts. The boy dies. I hated the BEAST and
wished a longer, more painful death than I can put into words after reading that
part. But it also fueled the mother with enough rage to overcome. that is the
way I see it anyway. I also look to movies and how they end. Se7en was not a
happy ending, but it moved me much more than "cop gets bad guy and all is well"
ever could.
With a book like The Stand, you develop a very personal relationship with the
characters. You grow to love, hate, sympathize, pity, etc. them. You grow to
see Larry for the kind of guy he never imagined he could be. Do you think his
character would have left as much of an impression on you (you being rhetorical)
if he had somehow defeated Flagg and lived? he was the one of the martyrs for
the book. With all the heavy spiritual overtones in the book, how could you not
have martyrs?
Babble complete.
--
MCSE - It's not just for breakfast anymore.
I don't want spam so remove the sodium nitrate
.
"Nassim Abed" <na...@cyberia.net.lb> wrote in message
news:94756667...@opti.cyberia.net.lb...
Scullycat2
>a
>happy ending, but it moved me much more than "cop gets bad guy and all is
>well"
>ever could.
GOD wasn't that an incredible ending? I think that role, small though it was,
was Kevin Spacey at his most creepy!!
"You're a f***ing tee-shirt, at BEST!"
Cathi K
http://scullycat2.tsx.org
***************************
"I believe in the faith that grows
and the four right chords can make me cry..."
- 3EB
Rae
"Nathan" <nathana...@home.com> wrote in message
news:OVke4.1453$sb.2...@news1.sttls1.wa.home.com...
Tracicle
box? Actually, do they ever actually SAY what's in the box, or do you
assume...? I can't remember. I just remember thinking -- "Legendary! What
a clever guy!" when I realised the contents...
Tracy
--
Kira's evil twin >; )
CotBSig #20, CotCSig #77
Scullycat2 wrote in message
<20000111111831...@ng-fy1.aol.com>...
Tracicle
Whoever wrote in message <94754592...@opti.cyberia.net.lb>...
>You make me sick: Larry is a decent man. Not without past "sins" of course,
>but he was a decent man. And you're right, you haven't read it in ages
>because Larry was not responsible for Rita's death. He was sorry for her,
of
>course, but it is not your fault if someone pukes while asleep and chokes
on
>her own vomit. Her death is definitely not Larry's fault.
Okay -- I didn't say her death was Larry's fault -- he didn't force the
drugs down her throat and make her vomit...I said he ASSUMED RESPONSIBILITY
for her death. He believed he was at fault because he didn't see the signs,
because he didn't stop her in time. He wasn't to blame. We all know that.
But he thought it. As for me making you sick -- that's an awfully strong
response, don't you think? It's just my opinion...
>Larry, furthermore, had to put up with more horrid situations than anyone
else
>including Stu. As a matter of fact, I don't recall Stu having to face
>anything except the young teenage "foolishness" of Harold Lauder. As for
>Fran, I hate her guts the way she broke Harold's young and inexperienced
>heart. If you don't like someone you don't just step on his heart, you find
>a way of saying no other than sleeping with someone else and making it
>obvious.
>
That's your opinon. I liked Fran. She was strong. Harold had high
expectations for himself. Harold had hate -- and he used it as soon as an
excuse was given to use it, ie. Fran's "thing" for Stu, not him. I respect
your opinion, though.
>You know why you make me sick? Because you are saying "Glen was a
>philosopher thus he was not warm thus I don't give a shit if he lives or
>dies" and this is worse than what Lloyed did with his bunny rabbit pet when
>he was a kid.
I never said I didn't like Glen BECAUSE he was a philosopher. I said I
didn't like him, and that he was a philosopher. Two independent statements.
I didn't warm to Glen like the others, which was probably just the way he
was written, NOT because of who he was. I liked the statements he made, I
just never felt any real emotion towards him. Is that clearer?
Tracy
Kings Jester
Did you know that he has been cast for Desperation?
Bev Vincent
"Kings Jester" <kings...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000111173201...@ng-fu1.aol.com...
> >>was Kevin Spacey at his most creepy!!>>
>
> Did you know that he has been cast for Desperation?
At least according to Aint-it-cool-news, which says:
"Desperation" casting and pre-production is very tight at the moment, but I
can say that the principal cast, so far, has been decided, and is as
follows: Kevin Spacey, Juliette Lewis, and Miko Hughes will play the Carver
family, Nick Nolte will play Collie Entragian, and Milla Jovovich is set to
have an unspecified female role in the cast.
Bev Vincent
"Bev Vincent" <MaxD...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:PlOe4.1112$v_3.3191@client...
Which is followed almost immediately with:
Hey folks, Harry here. Like I said yesterday about that DESPERATION casting
rumors, they were NOT confirmed and I was putting out the latest I had
heard. However, today I can tell you that this project seems unfortunately
to be languishing at NEW LINE at the moment, and has been since last year.
They are nowhere near casting or even thinking about it. I believe Moriarty
has read the script because the other night he told me he really liked the
script and said that it was by far the best that Mick Garris has had a
chance to direct. I wonder what the hold up is.... Oh well...
Jodie
"Whoever" <h...@nah.no> wrote:
>
> KAH wrote in message <85b8pd$8l0$1...@bob.news.rcn.net>...
>>
>>Nassim Abed wrote in message
>>
>>***SPOILERS***
>>.
>>.
>>.--------> doesn't you "spoilers" above seem a little late after the title of your post?? Some who
(tho' I can't imagine who....) who haven't yet read the Stand may be disappointed. Just a
friendly note.
Jodie.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>.
>>
>>>I do recall that Flagg put an oil spill to cause his motorcycle to slip
> but
>>>did that kill him right away? No wait, that caused him to break his legs,
>>>right? And then he despaired and in regret he slashed his wrists, right?
> or
>>>did he shoot himself? Oh I don't remember....
>>
>>
>>He shot himself.
>>
>>
>>KAH
>
> With a shotgun in the mouth while crying hot tears or regret, right? Under
> the eyes of Larry Underwood, right? Tom Cullen died in the blast along with
> Nick Andros, right?
>
Jodie
**Under Construction**
Scullycat2
>>
>> Did you know that he has been cast for Desperation?
>
>
Actually, it was I who wrote that about Kevin Spacey...and thanks for the info,
I can hardly believe it's true though...Miko Hughes??? Come again? Though I
can see Nick Nolte as Collie.
>
Cathi K
http://scullycat2.tsx.org
***************************
Tracicle
>Tracicle wrote:
>
>>I never said I didn't like Glen BECAUSE he was a philosopher. I said I
>>didn't like him, and that he was a philosopher. Two independent
statements.
>>I didn't warm to Glen like the others, which was probably just the way he
>>was written, NOT because of who he was. I liked the statements he made, I
>>just never felt any real emotion towards him. Is that clearer?
>
>I took an instant sympathy to Glen. Just didn't expect the actor in the
>miniseries, Ray Walton(?)...
>(I'll probably see him again in three weeks, the series starts in TV today,
>one hour at a time -- must reconsider then.)
The Stand does Andy? Bums to it being in Finland...I have been waiting to
see the Stand for what...5 years? And now I'm in the US I guess the odds
have dropped somewhat...
And yeah, you suck cos you like Glen...man you have NO taste <VBEG>...
huggles from
the Tracicle
--
Kira's evil twin >; )
CotBSig #20, CotCSig #77
>
>Sir &y,
>FOC,U?
>--
>Castle FNG, TCotCS #30, TCotBS #18
>Envoy Extraordinary and Minister Plenipotentiary.
>
>~ "My wife made me join a bridge club. I jump off next Tuesday" ~
Nassim Abed
char...@webtv.net wrote in message
<17858-38...@storefull-248.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
Tracicle
r1s...@webtv.net
From: ka.h...@erols.com (KAH) Re: The Bad Death of Harold Lauder
(spoilers)
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
I do recall that Flagg put an oil spill to cause his motorcycle to slip
but did that kill him right away? No wait, that caused him to break his
legs, right? And then he despaired and in regret he slashed his wrists,
right? or did he shoot himself? Oh I don't remember....
He shot himself.
KAH
I will always remember,..........1,..... 2,.... 3........Harold jumped.
r1sams
http://community.webtv.net/r1sams/WELCOMETOMYHOMEPAGE