Stephen King vs Dean Koontz
ka...@my-deja.com
will read anything from any of them. However, I feel that SK pips DK
at the post. Anyone else agree?
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Ernest Fairchild
couldn't say, because they are both good, but in different ways. I would be
hard pressed to pick an *absolute* winner betwixt the two.
Have a great day!
Ernest
(ern...@home.com)
"A day may be considered a successful one if you learn at least one new
thing."
<ka...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:809rod$b6j$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
DonFro...@webtv.net
never know quite what to expect, and not in a good way. His characters
seem to me to react differently than I think they should. I guess what
I'm saying is that they act out of character, if that makes any sense?
What I do like about him is the variety of genres he writes in, even
within the same story, that, to me is an interesting kind of
unpredictability.
DON
Mark Edler
that was enough. Mainly because the plots of "Dark Rivers Of The Heart" and
"Strange Highways" were the same: Lonely man trying to forget the past,
meets a strong-willed woman who he instantly falls in love with and who
helps him to battle an evil family member who is practically the devil in
disguise. I'm not saying that he's unoriginal because I've only read those
2, but I felt like I wasted my time because I could have read just one. I
also think the way the moral messages in his stories are too blatantly
obvious, and that he sometimes throws in multi-syllable words that he found
in his thesaurus just for the hell of it. Still, I must say that his books
flow fast and grabbed my attention... he knows how to write a book that will
keep you turning the pages quickly. So I'm not saying that he's a bad
writer, just not my type of writer. King has a few of the same problems (the
similarities between many characters, for instance), but I think his stories
are a lot more diverse and his character development is better. Have a nice
day!
Mark
ka...@my-deja.com wrote in message <809rod$b6j$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>I think Stephen Kings books are fantastic. I like Dean Koontzs too and
>will read anything from any of them. However, I feel that SK pips DK
>at the post. Anyone else agree?
>
>
Holly D. Monnich
in the Attic...yawn.
Alyosha
Straub tops both. Straub is a more complex writer and perhaps is not as
"natural" as King or Koontz but his books reach down deep and evoke a much
greater sense of horror and fear from the reader.
Ernest Fairchild <ern...@imap2.asu.edu> wrote in message
news:809uok$n28$1...@news.asu.edu...
> They are the *only* two horror writers I read. As to which is better, I
> couldn't say, because they are both good, but in different ways. I would
be
> hard pressed to pick an *absolute* winner betwixt the two.
>
> Have a great day!
>
> Ernest
> (ern...@home.com)
>
> "A day may be considered a successful one if you learn at least one new
> thing."
>
> <ka...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:809rod$b6j$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
kimbe...@webtv.net
Koontz always makes his heros unbreakable. I mean they would never think
of there own survival first, they always have that darn damsel in
distress to think about. And who's to say that the damsel has to be the
one in distress? Let her kick a little butt for a change, Dean.
Kimberly
Scribbler
Mark Edler wrote:
> I think King is WAY better than Koontz. I read two Koontz books, and decided
> that was enough. Mainly because the plots of "Dark Rivers Of The Heart" and
> "Strange Highways" were the same: Lonely man trying to forget the past,
> meets a strong-willed woman who he instantly falls in love with and who
> helps him to battle an evil family member who is practically the devil in
> disguise. I'm not saying that he's unoriginal because I've only read those
> 2,
I'm ashamed to admit I've read everything he's written except for his latest
hardcover. I thought he was fun airport reading for a while, up until 5 or so
years ago. Then I started seeing quite the, shall we say, pattern?! I kept
forgetting just how little I enjoyed his stuff, but after the execrable (IMO)
Fear Nothing, I have no intention of reading the new sequel. Or anything ever
again. His prose is getting downright smelly. I can't take it. I was just
terminally optimistic, I suppose, since I recall enjoying my first Koontz book
years ago (Watchers--that classic), and Twilight Eyes, Phantoms and Strangers
very much. But after three or four, you get tired of reading about the same
character, and the same ubiquitous female lead with "dark glossy hair" who
seems to keep turning up under a different name or, when we're feeling
especially adventurous (though it's rare), under the cover of peroxide. Part
of the problem, as well, is my GIGANTIC penchant for tales about characters who
lose everything and have to go on the lam (from bad guys or misled government
agencies, in this case). A weakness--I seem to romanticize the idea of living
a picaresque (I've said this before in this NG--I really love that genre. Now,
psychologically, you are all free to read me comme une livre). Koontz almost
always delivers on those ones, and it's how he for so long kept me a prisoner.
<dramatic flourish>
I guess Koontz can't escape his psychology. Most of his readers are familiar
with his past, and it's pretty easy to argue that he writes for his own
personal catharsis. If he wasn't writing, I'd bet money he'd be one of our
more prolific serial killers--he's said as much himself. The male heroes are
very much a reflection of the author's self--to a fault. But I think a lot of
us can understand his need for repetition. Another point: I was talking about
authorial self-indulgence in another thread (similar to Scribblerial
self-indulgence--and yet distinct), and one of the pitfalls (or benefits) is
falling in love with one's characters and wanting to write them into different
situations ad nauseam. While it's great character-development practice, it can
bore the balls right out of readers' sockets (unless it's done with great
talent, and honesty--ie, it actually *is* the same character in all those
tales! British mystery writers have been doing it fer years). I'm sure the
Lindas and the Danis in the NG can back me up on this. Personally, I feel
Monsieur simply lacks the will and discipline to escape a cosy niche. Given
his background, more power to him. I just don't want to read about it anymore.
> but I felt like I wasted my time because I could have read just one. I
> also think the way the moral messages in his stories are too blatantly
> obvious,
Again, I think this is a symptom of his own personal struggles, and that fact
that his trauma has made him quite strident about individual rights and the
"scourge of violence" in his country (among others). I agree it's boring as
hell and slightly irritating, in my opinion.
> and that he sometimes throws in multi-syllable words that he found
> in his thesaurus just for the hell of it.
O my yes. Have you all noticed that the word "preternatural" sticks out like a
sore thumb--in every single one of his books? It's his fave!
> Still, I must say that his books
> flow fast and grabbed my attention... he knows how to write a book that will
> keep you turning the pages quickly. So I'm not saying that he's a bad
> writer, just not my type of writer. King has a few of the same problems (the
> similarities between many characters, for instance), but I think his stories
> are a lot more diverse and his character development is better. Have a nice
> day!
>
Me too. I also think Koontz's prose is just not for me. Blech. But I'm
learning quick: I read my first Kellerman recently--there won't be a second.
Scrib
Allan Pengelly
Alyosha <aly...@iname.com> wrote in message
news:uzhpxt9K$GA.313@cpmsnbbsa05...
> While I do enjoy King -- I can certainly tell you that in many ways Peter
> Straub tops both. Straub is a more complex writer and perhaps is not as
> "natural" as King or Koontz but his books reach down deep and evoke a much
> greater sense of horror and fear from the reader.
I have just got around to reading "Ghost Story" by Peter Straub. Found it
interesting, but not really scarey. I judge books by their abiltiy to keep
me awake when I am on the graveyard shift (11.00 p.m to 7.00 a.m.), when I
do most of my reading. My own rating for the authors would be: Consistantly
Scarey..Richard Laymon. Mostly scarey but always interesting...Dean Koontz.
Sometimes scarey, always interesesting...Stephen King. Scarey with erotic
overtones....Graeme Masterson. A little scarey, but sometimes
interesting...Anne Rice, John Saul, Clive Barker and now Peter Straub. Hey,
to mix a metaphor, I don't know much about literature, but I know what keeps
me awake. I am currently reading a book called "Dark Dominion". Never heard
of the author, but I picked it up from the Library as someone had pencilled
"sick rubbish" on the flyleaf. Nothing like an unbiased critic to attract my
attention.
Allan
Mark Edler
just my opinion). I just finished Koko and enjoyed it, although not so much
as Ghost Story... but I thought the character development in Koko was great,
especially Michael, who I felt sorry for, being married to such a selfish,
non-understanding woman. I've yet to work out what happened in the cave
though, I was hoping I'd find out at the end of the book, but it's still a
mystery to me... probably because I read it mainly late at night :)
Mark
Alyosha wrote in message ...
>While I do enjoy King -- I can certainly tell you that in many ways Peter
>Straub tops both. Straub is a more complex writer and perhaps is not as
>"natural" as King or Koontz but his books reach down deep and evoke a much
>greater sense of horror and fear from the reader.
>
>
Mark Edler
>G'day, Alyosha (what an exotic name).
>
>Alyosha <aly...@iname.com> wrote in message
>news:uzhpxt9K$GA.313@cpmsnbbsa05...
>> Straub tops both. Straub is a more complex writer and perhaps is not as
>> "natural" as King or Koontz but his books reach down deep and evoke a
much
>> greater sense of horror and fear from the reader.
>
>interesting, but not really scarey. I judge books by their abiltiy to keep
>me awake when I am on the graveyard shift (11.00 p.m to 7.00 a.m.), when I
>do most of my reading. My own rating for the authors would be:
Consistantly
>Scarey..Richard Laymon. Mostly scarey but always interesting...Dean Koontz.
>Sometimes scarey, always interesesting...Stephen King. Scarey with erotic
>overtones....Graeme Masterson. A little scarey, but sometimes
>interesting...Anne Rice, John Saul, Clive Barker and now Peter Straub. Hey,
>to mix a metaphor, I don't know much about literature, but I know what
keeps
>me awake. I am currently reading a book called "Dark Dominion". Never heard
>of the author, but I picked it up from the Library as someone had pencilled
>"sick rubbish" on the flyleaf. Nothing like an unbiased critic to attract
my
>attention.
LOL... I think "sick rubbish" may be a positive review of a horror book :)
Richard Laymon is often wonderfully disgusting... so much so that I wouldn't
want to meet him on the street. I thought "Out Are The Lights" was a great
short story collection, although not for the weak of stomach.
Mark
Scullycat2
Russian for Alex, or something like that, isn't it?
>>Consistantly Scarey..Richard Laymon.
On my book review website I have a short synopsis of THE CELLAR by Laymon. One
of the sickest books I've ever read...and I've read it a few times ;-)
>>I am currently reading a book called "Dark Dominion". Never heard of the
author,
Could you share the author's name? Please? Pretty please?
Cathi K
http://scullycat2.tsx.org
***************************
www.psychicrain.com
The Best Band You've Never Heard
PSYCHIC RAIN
Jadz...@webtv.net
are spooky writers but each in his own different way, which is what I
like. However, I do find that I get to really know the characters
better in SK's books. He goes into more depth with them than Koontz
does. For those of you unsure about Koontz, I highly recommend
Strangers. This is a book that grabs you from the very first sentence.
Trust me, I couldn't put it down!
Nightvison
I agree, with the exception of Intensity. I thought Chyna kicked butt pretty
well there and I was hoping that Koontz was spiffing up his style again, but
no. I have quit reading him as well. Somewhere after his earlier books I
started to get mixed up. I think back on them and I can't remember which one
was which because of the simularities. But with King I know every storyline of
every book I have ever read.
Scribbler
Allan Pengelly wrote:
> I have just got around to reading "Ghost Story" by Peter Straub. Found it
> interesting, but not really scarey. I judge books by their abiltiy to keep
> me awake when I am on the graveyard shift (11.00 p.m to 7.00 a.m.), when I
> do most of my reading. My own rating for the authors would be: Consistantly
> Scarey..Richard Laymon. Mostly scarey but always interesting...Dean Koontz.
> Sometimes scarey, always interesesting...Stephen King. Scarey with erotic
> overtones....Graeme Masterson. A little scarey, but sometimes
> interesting...Anne Rice, John Saul, Clive Barker and now Peter Straub. Hey,
> to mix a metaphor, I don't know much about literature, but I know what keeps
> me awake. I am currently reading a book called "Dark Dominion". Never heard
> of the author, but I picked it up from the Library as someone had pencilled
> "sick rubbish" on the flyleaf. Nothing like an unbiased critic to attract my
> attention.
>
>
Great little sum-up. BTW it amazes me, and maybe I've just missed the
threads, but I've never seen Dan Simmons mentioned, and more specifically, his
Summer of Night. It's a giant tome of a book, will give you King-Elbow in
bed. Just as McCammon (sp?) gave us his version of The Stand with Swan Song
(which I loved), Simmons gives us his version of IT. TWO THUMBS WAY UP,
especially for those among you who loved IT. Get out there and get yer hands
on that puppy.
Scrib
Scribbler
Allan Pengelly wrote:
Sorry if this is a duplicate post, my newsreader sucks the big wazoo today.
Scrib
Scribbler
Nightvison wrote: (re Koontz books)
>
> I think back on them and I can't remember which one
> was which because of the simularities. But with King I know every storyline of
> every book I have ever read.
You've just out your finger on it, Nighty. That's pretty much the crux of the
distinction between them. It's all the proof I need to believe that one knows
how to characterize, the other does not. Thanks for putting into words something
I've been trying to for some time.
Scrib
Scullycat2
Summer of Night. It's a giant tome of a book, will give you King-Elbow in
bed. Just as McCammon (sp?) gave us his version of The Stand with Swan Song
(which I loved), Simmons gives us his version of IT. TWO THUMBS WAY UP
I'm SO with you on this, Scrib. I love Swan Song by McCammon and I love Summer
of Night by Simmons. You related them to King's work perfectly. And McCammon
has one called Boy's Life that has a little of the IT feel to it as well.
Wolfgang Krietsch
>
>I guess Koontz can't escape his psychology. Most of his readers are familiar
>with his past,
I'm not - what is there about his past???
Ciao,
Wolfgang
--
We all go a little mad sometimes.
- Norman Bates (Psycho)
Wolfgang Krietsch
>I like Koontz as well, but I have some problems with his writing. I
>never know quite what to expect, and not in a good way. His characters
>seem to me to react differently than I think they should. I guess what
>I'm saying is that they act out of character, if that makes any sense?
The thing I love about SK is how "natural" his characters are - I can
always really identify with them, feel with them (hope this came out right
- discussing those things in English is kinda difficult). In this matter he
is by far better then Koontz.
SK has a really impressing ability to describe not only what his characters
do, but also what they think, without ever sounding "unreal"
Wolfgang Krietsch
>>threads, but I've never seen Dan Simmons mentioned, and more specifically, his
>Summer of Night. It's a giant tome of a book, will give you King-Elbow in
>bed. Just as McCammon (sp?) gave us his version of The Stand with Swan Song
>(which I loved), Simmons gives us his version of IT. TWO THUMBS WAY UP
>
>I'm SO with you on this, Scrib. I love Swan Song by McCammon and I love Summer
>of Night by Simmons. You related them to King's work perfectly. And McCammon
>has one called Boy's Life that has a little of the IT feel to it as well.
>
I have to heavily disagree. Reading Summer of Night, I alway thought: "
"Here's a guy who tries do do something like IT - and completeley misses
this goal"
S.O.N. to me made clear the difference betwenn a "writer" and a "genius
writer".
BTW: Can you guess what my favorite S. K. book is by now? :-)
A Box Of Junk
Why? I tend to like horror novels that have something to do with the
supernatural - whether it be a ghost, demon, whatever. Reading about
supernatural beings scares me much more than reading about a masked serial
killer. I think this is because supernatural things are portrayed as something
'higher' than a human. In books, it's easy and predictable to know how a
serial killer would be stopped. He'd either be killed or caught and put in
jail.
When dealing with something supernatural, it's more complicated on how the book
will end. How the characters in the book will ultimatly *stop* the thing from
causing more damage is much more complicated than how they would stop a masked
murderer.
Stephen King's books deal more with the supernatural, which is obviously why I
like him better than Koontz. Koontz's books deal more on the so-called
'realistic' horror. (With the exception of Phantoms - which I LOVED).
Not to say Koontz's books are not scary, because they certainally are.
Just my thoughts.
______________
Rubble, Rubble
~~the hamburgerlar
Scullycat2
>familiar
>>with his past,
>
>I'm not - what is there about his past???
>
>
IIRC, he had an alcoholic and abusive father. I heard an interview once but it
was some time ago and I'm not certain.
Scribbler
Scullycat2 wrote:
> >>I guess Koontz can't escape his psychology. Most of his readers are
> >familiar
> >>with his past,
> >
> >I'm not - what is there about his past???
> >
> >
>
> IIRC, he had an alcoholic and abusive father. I heard an interview once but it
> was some time ago and I'm not certain.
>
>
You're correct. To hear Koontz tell it, his father tried to kill him at least
once. He ran away from home to save his life.
Scrib
Scribbler
Wolfgang Krietsch wrote:
> I have to heavily disagree. Reading Summer of Night, I alway thought: "
> "Here's a guy who tries do do something like IT - and completeley misses
> this goal"
>
> S.O.N. to me made clear the difference betwenn a "writer" and a "genius
> writer".
>
Interesting--I feel Simmons actually does a more authentic job of capturing the
essence of growing up Yankee in a past decade or two. But what do you or I know
(judging by your German email address)? Neither of us were there ourselves. ;) I
just feel Simmons is more on the mark re. writing about the perspective of
12years-olds boys in 60's midwest town. And I found his ending somewhat more
believable (although I'm on the record as disappointed in both). Writing for a
20-something female Canadian, who has few relations to the characters, I give him
pretty high praise for taking me there.
I love both, but IT would come out on top, simply because I read it first, and read
it at a more impressionable age. For me, Dan Simmons is more a writer for adults
(which isn't a value judgement, just what I perceive to be his goal).
Scrib
jma
maybe even The Amulet. Southern gothic meets horror ..
jma
A Box Of Junk <aboxo...@aol.combat> wrote in message
news:19991111193453...@ng-bg1.aol.com...
> I like both authors, but I prefer King.
>
> Why? I tend to like horror novels that have something to do with the
> supernatural - whether it be a ghost, demon, whatever <snip>
Carla Pettigrew
> They are the *only* two horror writers I read.
Try Douglas Clegg for a change of pace; I'd recommend Halloween Man for
starters.
<shameless plug> There's always the website for my horror lit discussion
list, grimoire--info on authors, subgenres in horror, etc. (see .sig)
</shameless plug>
O:) Carla
--
Giggling, dancing and shrieking prevailed and, as the evening wore on,
were carried to the very edge of the unseemly.
--_The Haunted Tea Cosy_, Edward Gorey
http://www.mindspring.com/~screamqueen/grimoire/
Scullycat2
>I'd call it The Body II rather than IT II:-)
>But you're not far wrong.
>
>Andy, your distant McCammon fan.
Andy, you make a good point. It mixed them both up, sort of ;-)
What's your favorite McCammon book? Mine will always be Swan Song. I wish we
could have had more about Swan and Robin and their family and the beginning of
the new civilization, after the end of the book! I just fell in love with
Robin; I have a weakness for bad boys with hearts of gold.
BionixCM
one
| was which because of the simularities. But with |King I know every
storyline of
| every book I have ever read.
Amazing! Thats exactly how I feel about Koontz. I really like his books and
there are plenty for me to read. However, ever time I go down to a bookstore
every book looks and sounds familiar, I can't tell them apart. Door to
December, Key to Midnight, and a bunch of one word titles <chuckle> My job
as a movie theatre manager has many perks, one of which is nothing to do all
night, so I read a book every day or two. Thankfully Stephen can keep up
with my habit, if I could only seperate Koontz books then I'd have another
well to draw from...
Bionix
MMD
books are remarkably similar? And it always seems to be King who had
the idea first?
Summer of Night=It
Boys Life=The Body
Swan Song=The Stand
The Blackstone Chronicles=The Green Mile (I don't know about the story
on this one, since I didn't read TBS, but the idea for releasing a
modern serial novel was certainly borrowed)
I'm sure there are plenty of other ones (anyone?)
When I see a book that blatantly copies an original Stephen King idea,
I try to stay away. Still, I sometimes start a book and realize 1/4 of
the way in that it's SK territory.
There are too many good ideas out there for these guys to be borrowing
SK's, IMHO.
Just my .02,
MMD
---
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Harry B Kalb
> every book looks and sounds familiar, I can't tell them apart. Door to
> December, Key to Midnight,
IMHO, "The Key To Midnight" is actually a refreshing change
if you haven't read it. It actually *doesn't* take place
on the West Coast or in the desert/Big Empty! ;) Rather,
it takes place in Japan, England, Paris, Switzerland...
> and a bunch of one word titles <chuckle>
Yeah...he does have a lot of those. =) One of the
really standout ones from that batch is "Strangers",
for what it's worth. Ditto "Hideaway" and "Midnight".
Both are good stories that gripped me. "Midnight" is
sort of formulaic Koontz, but still a cool read.
Harry
Kathryn
wrote:
I always liked "Lightning".... Don't know why, but it always spooked
me out when I was younger.
Kathryn
Peter Straub
>
> But aren't we bothered by the fact that the ideas for some of these
> books are remarkably similar? And it always seems to be King who had
> the idea first?
>
> Summer of Night=It
> Boys Life=The Body
> Swan Song=The Stand
> The Blackstone Chronicles=The Green Mile (I don't know about the story
> on this one, since I didn't read TBS, but the idea for releasing a
> modern serial novel was certainly borrowed)
-snip-
There can be no doubt that Saul's serial novel was written in direct
imitation of King's - or,to put it more charitably, was inspired by it -
but by this point anyone who writes a novel in separate parts is
deliberately following in the footsteps of some earlier writer. King
certainly remembered The Blackwater Saga, an extremely interesting
six-part novel Michael McDowell published in 1983, and both King and
McDowell clearly had Dickens's serial novels in mind.
Peter
Scullycat2
Are we certain that The Stand came out first? Just wondering.
Cathi K
http://scullycat2.tsx.org
***************************
Not all who wander are lost.
- J.R.R. Tolkien
Scullycat2
real-life horror of youth group homes combined with the fantasy of time-travel.
I'm not really ashamed to say that there are several Koontz books that I have
enjoyed.
MMD
> direct
> imitation of King's - or,to put it more charitably, was inspired
> by it -
> but by this point anyone who writes a novel in separate parts is
> deliberately following in the footsteps of some earlier writer.
> King
> certainly remembered The Blackwater Saga, an extremely interesting
> six-part novel Michael McDowell published in 1983, and both King
> and
> McDowell clearly had Dickens's serial novels in mind.
> Peter
Agreed, but there's a big difference between releasing a serial novel
in imitation of Dickens, and doing one almost immediately after someone
else in the same genre releases one.
I thought of another one. Mr. Murder=The Dark Half?
I'm not criticizing Mr. Saul or Mr. Koontz. I'm just saying it turns
me off to see them use such little imagination.
___
MMD
Scullycat2
the end of the world for one thing. Although I guess the *trek* throughout the
country to find the right place to settle has a common theme. But two VASTLY
different stories IMHO.
>Besides, what do those two have in common, except the general
>'end-of-the-world' theme?
Bertha Venation
>
Swan Song wasn't written by Koontz. It was written by Robert McCammon...
alex...
"Run to the nearest library or bookstore and find out what your elders don't
want you to know, because that's what you need to know." - Stephen King
Scullycat2
>>
>
>Swan Song wasn't written by Koontz. It was written by Robert McCammon...
We know that. And Boys Life was also McCammon. And Summer of Night is Dan
Simmons. I don't know if the original poster meant that these books had been
written by Koontz. He was maybe just comparing some of the books he'd read by
other authors to books written by SK.
MaddAmish
Mad Amish
Can I get a What what?
MrScaryCain
couple of years ago and from what I can remember it wasn't really a horror
novel per se, more of an adventure story. He was able to make you believe that
time travel was discovered without having to go into the details of how it
works. Another book of Koontz that I really like was Dark Rivers of the Heart.
I love the whole conspiracy theory, secret unaccountable government agencies
destroying peoples' lives to hide truths.
On the borrowed ideas from King thread: you'll find that Mr. Murder was
actually much more similar to King's Secret Garden Secret Window than The Dark
Half. They're both about a writer who takes on two personalities that aren't
aware of each other.
Will Rubin
finishes before you do
ka...@my-deja.com wrote:
> I think Stephen Kings books are fantastic. I like Dean Koontzs too and
> will read anything from any of them. However, I feel that SK pips DK
> at the post. Anyone else agree?
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
--
"Ae you going to tell me I hurt the corporation? I don't think even you are
capable of such a lie. After a corporation gets to a certain size, nothing
can hurt it. It gets to be an act of God. When things are good it makes a
huge profit, and when times are bad it just makes a profit, and when things
go to hell it takes a tax deduction."
-Richard Bachman
Scribbler
MMD wrote:
> But aren't we bothered by the fact that the ideas for some of these
> books are remarkably similar? And it always seems to be King who had
> the idea first?
>
> Summer of Night=It
> Boys Life=The Body
> Swan Song=The Stand
> The Blackstone Chronicles=The Green Mile (I don't know about the story
> on this one, since I didn't read TBS, but the idea for releasing a
> modern serial novel was certainly borrowed)
>
> I'm sure there are plenty of other ones (anyone?)
>
> When I see a book that blatantly copies an original Stephen King idea,
> I try to stay away. Still, I sometimes start a book and realize 1/4 of
> the way in that it's SK territory.
>
> There are too many good ideas out there for these guys to be borrowing
> SK's, IMHO.
>
> Just my .02,
I don't think anyone is disputing the chicken-egg theory here. Your
prerogative, to be sure, though I'm not sure what it has to do with the quality
of the actual result. I agree about derivation being a turn-off, but then we
all seem to forget that when we find a genre we love and latch onto, book-wise
or movie-wise...
Proud hypocrite,
Scrib
>
> ---
Derek Rutherford
>> When I see a book that blatantly copies an original Stephen King idea,
>> I try to stay away. Still, I sometimes start a book and realize 1/4 of
>> the way in that it's SK territory.
>>
>> There are too many good ideas out there for these guys to be borrowing
>> SK's, IMHO.
>>
Dangerous game to start putting people down for copying King - if that's
what they've done (and I think it's a big if). King would be the first to
admit that he draws an awful lot from the books he's read and loved. You
can't have one rule for one and not for another.
Derek.R
Scribbler
Derek Rutherford wrote:
Exactly my point, lest we forget Shakespeare.
Scrib
sweet'n'low
Gotta say, though, that this way --almost--as good as The Stand. I know
I'll get flamed for that; but I liked it. A little too 'supernatural' and
the ending was a letdown, but I liked it.
Karen Marie Cvitkovitch
this group have an archive?
Thanks
Karen:)
> £
Scullycat2
is very close to The Stand in imagery and emotion.
Cathi K
http://scullycat2.tsx.org
***************************
And there's this burning
like there's always been
- 3EB
Derek Rutherford
sweet'n'low wrote in message <3853...@news.ismi.net>...
I enjoyed Swan Song too. And yes...agree about the ending...but
endings...there is a subject worthy of a thread all of its own! To me one of
the things that is such a let-down in a huge percentage of modern horror
novels is the poor (was going to use another word!) endings. James Herbert
has been guilty of this, the great Ramsey Campbell has been guilty of this,
the aforementioned McCammon...But let's not highlight individuals - they've
all been guilty one time or another! They build up the tension...they lead
us on...we marvel at how on earth they're going to top all that's gone
before with a huge and emotional ending...they pull back the curtains
and...turns out just to be a big spider (and you know what book I'm talking
about!).
Derek.R
Karen Marie Cvitkovitch
Wolf's Hour. I never read Swan Song, yet and I heard it was the best
one. I've been scouring the thrift shops but to no avail. He's right on
my list of fav's with King and Straub.
Karen:)
Shannon T.
>
> I enjoyed Swan Song too. And yes...agree about the ending...but
> endings...there is a subject worthy of a thread all of its own! To me one of
> the things that is such a let-down in a huge percentage of modern horror
> novels is the poor (was going to use another word!) endings. James Herbert
> has been guilty of this, the great Ramsey Campbell has been guilty of this,
> the aforementioned McCammon...But let's not highlight individuals - they've
> all been guilty one time or another! They build up the tension...they lead
> us on...we marvel at how on earth they're going to top all that's gone
> before with a huge and emotional ending...they pull back the curtains
> and...turns out just to be a big spider (and you know what book I'm talking
> about!).
>
> Derek.R
King himself had something very astute to say about this in _Danse
Macabre_. He said that the main problem in writing horror was that
eventually you had to *reveal* whatever it was that you were building
all that suspense up toward, and that inevitably your audience would be
disappointed, because imagination always makes things worse than
reality. I believe he put it in terms of leading the reader down a
hallway toward a closed door, all the while hinting at the horrible
thing behind the door. Finally, you open the door and reveal a 10-foot
tall monster. The reader's reaction is to say, "Whew! I thought it was
going to be 100 feet tall." But if you open the door to reveal a
100-foot tall monster, then the reader will go, "Whew! I thought it was
going to be 1000 feet tall." You just can't win.
If you haven't read DM, I highly recommend it. I learned a lot about my
favorite genre from it, and got some good recommendations on books and
movies other than King's that I'd enjoy.
--
Shannon T.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
DO NOT REPLY TO sturl...@netscape.net. That address is only used
for posting and does not accept email. To reply by email, use
shannon <at> arcana.com
Web Master
: Did I miss a post or two? Those are Robert R McCammon books right? Does
: this group have an archive?
None specific to this group, but if you go to www.deja.com, all usenet
newsgroups are archived there.
Bev Vincent
-- "We don't need no stinkin' handcuffs."
(In the Deathroom)
Scribbler
another dude.
Scrib
Karen Marie Cvitkovitch wrote:
> Did I miss a post or two? Those are Robert R McCammon books right? Does
> this group have an archive?
>
DonFro...@webtv.net
Summer of Night=It
Boys Life=The Body
Swan Song=The Stand
The Blackstone Chronicles=The Green Mile (I don't know about the story
on this one, since I didn't read TBS, but the idea for releasing a
modern serial novel was certainly borrowed)
I could be wrong here(happens all the time, but I don't think this is
one of them), but I don't think Koontz wrote The Blackstone Chronicles.
If I recall this story correctly, it involved people recieving gifts
from a mysterious source and the death or other mishaps that followed. I
can't remember the author, but Iwould if it had indeed been Koontz.
I like Koontz quite a bit as well, I find his cross genre writing to be
interesting. On the other hand he seems to use coindidence much to
often, and some of his characters actions don't seem to me to always
make sense.
As far as writers copying each other goes, all writers of fiction do it.
There's an old adage that goes something like, "there are only four(or
five) basic plots, everything else is a variation on them'. Does
anybody else know the exact quote?
DON
Derek Rutherford
Shannon T. wrote in message <3853AF42...@netscape.net>...
>
<SNIP SOME GOOD STUFF>
Shannon,
Yep, I read Danse Macabre and thoroughly enjoyed it. And what King said is
valid but I don't necessarily agree that you *have* to reveal your monsters.
Well...maybe you do if you write a thousand pages...but this is one reason
why I often feel that short stories are a better medium for horror than
novels. I'm talking true horror here - not psychological serial killer
horror or even human-induced horror (The Stand, Firestarter, Misery). When
faced with monsters (vampires, zombies, werewolves, ghots) explanations
simply weaken things. In a short story you can get away with just saying
this is the way things are, and this is what happened, and leave it at that.
Why try and explain the unexplainable?
Case in point in movieland - compare the remake of The Haunting Of Hill
House to the original. No contest in the disturbing scarey stakes.
Derek R.
Web Master
: MMD calls these Dean Koontz books.
: Summer of Night=It
: Boys Life=The Body
: Swan Song=The Stand
: The Blackstone Chronicles=The Green Mile (I don't know about the story
: on this one, since I didn't read TBS, but the idea for releasing a
: modern serial novel was certainly borrowed)
In fact, none of these are Koontz books. Summer of Night is by
Dan Simmons and the others are by Robert McCammon except for the
Blackstone Chronicles, which were by John Saul. Saul freely admits
that the motivation for doing the serial release was inspired by
King.
: I could be wrong here(happens all the time, but I don't think this is
: one of them), but I don't think Koontz wrote The Blackstone Chronicles.
: If I recall this story correctly, it involved people recieving gifts
: from a mysterious source and the death or other mishaps that followed. I
: can't remember the author, but Iwould if it had indeed been Koontz.
--
Lizabeth Turner
your quote, but when I was an english undergrad, that's we were taught that
there were 5 basic stories and people just kept writing them over and over
again :)
DonFro...@webtv.net wrote:
> MMD calls these Dean Koontz books.
> Summer of Night=It
>
> Boys Life=The Body
> Swan Song=The Stand
> The Blackstone Chronicles=The Green Mile (I don't know about the story
> on this one, since I didn't read TBS, but the idea for releasing a
> modern serial novel was certainly borrowed)
>
> I could be wrong here(happens all the time, but I don't think this is
> one of them), but I don't think Koontz wrote The Blackstone Chronicles.
> If I recall this story correctly, it involved people recieving gifts
> from a mysterious source and the death or other mishaps that followed. I
> can't remember the author, but Iwould if it had indeed been Koontz.
>
Scullycat2
Actually, I kind of liked the ending, although I wish it had gone on farther,
you know, tell us more about Swan and...
oops, spoilers...
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*about Swan and Robin and their family. I really liked the love story of Swan
and Robin.
Scullycat2
favorites. What a unique *hero*!!
>Wolf's Hour. I never read Swan Song, yet and I heard it was the best
>one. I've been scouring the thrift shops but to no avail.
sweet'n'low
> us on...we marvel at how on earth they're going to top all that's gone
> before with a huge and emotional ending...they pull back the curtains
> and...turns out just to be a big spider (and you know what book I'm
talking
> about!).
>
> Derek.R
LOL....oh, yes, I sure do *smile*.
Karen Marie Cvitkovitch
heading was different than the books mentioned. I thought I was going wacko.
Er...more wacko...
Karen:)
goath...@process.com
>
>
> But aren't we bothered by the fact that the ideas for some of these
> books are remarkably similar? And it always seems to be King who had
> the idea first?
King certainly wasn't the first author to write a post-apocalyptic
novel, or a coming-of-age tale, or even a serial novel (Michael
McDowell did that with the Blackwater series back in the late
'70s or early '80s---and then there were all the serial novels of
the 19th and early 20th centuries.
That's one reason I got fed up with King fans many years ago: they
often think that King is the only one to ever do anything.
--
Hunter
------
Hunter Goatley, goath...@PROCESS.COM
Shannon T.
I just read Swan Song recently, based on talk about it in this group,
and I was easily able to find and order it from Amazon.Com. Hope that
helps.
MMD
DonFro...@webtv.net wrote:
> MMD calls these Dean Koontz books.
> Summer of Night=It
> Boys Life=The Body
> Swan Song=The Stand
> The Blackstone Chronicles=The Green Mile (I don't know about the
> story
> on this one, since I didn't read TBS, but the idea for releasing a
> modern serial novel was certainly borrowed)
No, I didn't say that. I know who wrote what. I'm pointing out
similarities in recent novels by SK & SK-wanna-bes. I don't give a
flip who they are. Oh, wait, yes I do. I want to know whose books NOT
to read.
Apologies for being slightly OT here.
> I could be wrong here(happens all the time, but I don't think this
> is
> one of them), but I don't think Koontz wrote The Blackstone
> Chronicles.
> If I recall this story correctly, it involved people recieving
> gifts
> from a mysterious source and the death or other mishaps that
> followed. I
> can't remember the author, but Iwould if it had indeed been
> Koontz.
John Saul
> I like Koontz quite a bit as well, I find his cross genre writing
> to be
> interesting. On the other hand he seems to use coindidence much to
> often, and some of his characters actions don't seem to me to
> always
> make sense.
> As far as writers copying each other goes, all writers of fiction
> do it.
All <bad> writers of fiction do it. OK, <bad> might not be the word.
How about <mediocre>, or perhaps <lazy> or <uninspired>?
> There's an old adage that goes something like, "there are only
> four(or
> five) basic plots, everything else is a variation on them'.
Come on! There are only a handful of basic CONFLICTS:
man vs. man
man. vs. nature
man. vs. machine
man. vs. supernatural
which can lead to INFINITE, DIVERSE plot lines.
My point is this: Yes, SK probably does borrow heavily from other
masters of fiction. He's extremely well-read and knows a good PLOT
DEVICE (not PLOT) when he sees one. He's a scholar on the genre. He
doesn't need to go to Barnes & Noble and pull down the latest <insert
wanna-be-name which offends you the least> bung-fodder to get his next
idea.
If anyone can work this little puzzle in reverse, I would be interested
to see it. For example, I posed that:
Swan Song = The Stand
Now, who can fill out the equation:
The Stand = ?
meaning, what novel directly influenced King when writing the Stand (or
any other of his novels)? Who did SK borrow from directly in the
fashion that I claim Dean Koontz et al. borrow from SK?
To be fair, let's stick to books written no more than 10 years before
the publication date of the related SK book.
And let's stay away from wishy-washy tripe. Specific examples please.
> Does anybody else know the exact quote?
"There's a sucker born every minute"? P.T. Barnum
> DON
MMD
> Scribbler wrote:
> >
> >
> > But aren't we bothered by the fact that the ideas for some of
> these
> > books are remarkably similar? And it always seems to be King
> who had
> > the idea first?
> King certainly wasn't the first author to write a post-apocalyptic
> novel
Who was? Be specific & keep it within the past twenty years or so.
, or a coming-of-age tale, or even a serial novel (Michael
> McDowell did that with the Blackwater series back in the late
> '70s or early '80s---and then there were all the serial novels of
> the 19th and early 20th centuries.
> That's one reason I got fed up with King fans many years ago: they
> often think that King is the only one to ever do anything.
I credit King with bringing horror fiction into the mainstream in the
early eighties, lending some credibility to the genre. That's all. I
don't think DK could have pulled it off. His popularity is a direct
result of SK's work. Nothing inherently bad about that, I guess. OK
for you & his fans, but I choose not to read it. Just my .02.
> --
> Hunter
> ------
> Hunter Goatley, goath...@PROCESS.COM
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
Scribbler
No Scribbler did *not* write... ! That was MMD. I just lerve repeating
myself: credit where it's due, guys.
> > But aren't we bothered by the fact that the ideas for some of these
> > books are remarkably similar? And it always seems to be King who
had
> > the idea first?
>
> King certainly wasn't the first author to write a post-apocalyptic
> novel, or a coming-of-age tale, or even a serial novel (Michael
> McDowell did that with the Blackwater series back in the late
> '70s or early '80s---and then there were all the serial novels of
> the 19th and early 20th centuries.
>
> That's one reason I got fed up with King fans many years ago: they
> often think that King is the only one to ever do anything.
Scribbler
MMD <mmdudek...@perfectserve.com.invalid> wrote:
> In article <8332qe$8ut$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, goath...@PROCESS.COM
wrote:
> > Scribbler wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > But aren't we bothered by the fact that the ideas for some of
> > these
> > > books are remarkably similar? And it always seems to be King
> > who had
> > > the idea first?
> > King certainly wasn't the first author to write a post-apocalyptic
>
> Who was? Be specific & keep it within the past twenty years or so.
Speaking of being specific, MMD and Goat, can you please remove my
FRICKEN name from the above next time you reply to this thead (unless
it directly replies to one of my own posts)? What a tangled web...
Scrib
Derek Rutherford
MMD wrote in message
>If anyone can work this little puzzle in reverse, I would be interested
>to see it. For example, I posed that:
>
>Swan Song = The Stand
>
>Now, who can fill out the equation:
>
>The Stand = ?
>
>meaning, what novel directly influenced King when writing the Stand (or
>any other of his novels)? Who did SK borrow from directly in the
>fashion that I claim Dean Koontz et al. borrow from SK?
>
>To be fair, let's stick to books written no more than 10 years before
>the publication date of the related SK book.
>
MMD, this sounds like a fine way to spend some cold evenings over
Christmas - trying to highlight which books heavily influenced SK. I'm a
little puzzled on why you are suggesting we only consider books written no
more than ten years prior to King's book. Working on published dates (as we
don't actually know when author's penned their masterpieces) wouldn't this
effectively rule out the link between Swan Song (1987) and The Stand (before
1977 I'm sure...but I'm prepared to be corrected!)?
However, without even having to tax the old grey cells too much I recall
that King himself mentions Earth Abides as being an influence on The Stand.
In Earth Abides a plague takes out most of the world's population... He is
also on record mentioning the lineage between Salems Lot & Dracula.
Furthermore, I would put good money on Thinner being more than a distant
cousin to The Incredible Shrinking Man. Then we have The Haunting of Hill
House and the Shining. I would also love to know whether Firestarter was
written before or after John Farris' the Fury, too. I guess with a bit of
thought we could come up with plenty more. But what's the point? I'm not
putting SK down for any of this. I love the guy's fiction (almost as much as
I love his non-fiction). I just don't think you should put down any of the
other authors that have been mentioned in this thread. The nature of the
beast is to read and digest and assimilate and come up with something new
that has little bits of all of your influences in there. That's how it works
in literature, music, art, film-making, every damn thing. This isn't a bad
thing. Just don't make out that King was the inventor of this entire genre
and ignore the rest or you'll be missing out and some of its very best
moments.
Derek.R
MMD
> little puzzled on why you are suggesting we only consider books
> written no
> more than ten years prior to King's book. Working on published
> dates (as we
> don't actually know when author's penned their masterpieces)
> wouldn't this
> effectively rule out the link between Swan Song (1987) and The
> Stand (before
> 1977 I'm sure...but I'm prepared to be corrected!)?
I chose 10 years pretty much off the cuff. I just wanted to limit how
far back we're talking about here. I didn't want to end up comparing
The Stand to the Book of Revelations or something.
See, I know that authors, realistically, are almost always borrowing on
the work of those who came before. The nature of the beast, etc. What
bothers me is when SK puts out a novel and then 3 mos. to 2 yrs. down
the road, DK or JS puts out a book that's eerily the same in an
intrinsic way, be it the plot, idea, or even the format (i.e. The
Blackstone Chronicles).
Ideas and plots are being recycled a little too soon, I guess.
I don't know why it bugs me. No one else seems to feel the same. This
probably bothers me more than it bothers SK.
> However, without even having to tax the old grey cells too much I
> recall
> that King himself mentions Earth Abides
I will look up the author & pub. date (your point is noted about that
however)
> as being an influence on The Stand.
> In Earth Abides a plague takes out most of the world's
> population... He is
> also on record mentioning the lineage between Salems Lot & Dracula.
> Furthermore, I would put good money on Thinner being more than a
> distant
> cousin to The Incredible Shrinking Man.
I think this is a pretty big stretch. No more than third cousins, once
removed. But damn, Swan Song sleeps with its sister The Stand and
buggers it nightly!
But since SK mentions Matheson and TISM in Danse Macabre, you'd have an
arguement.
I'll have to look up the pub. date on that one, too.
Then we have The Haunting
> of Hill
> House and the Shining.
Hmm...same point & arguement as above.
> I would also love to know whether
> Firestarter was
> written before or after John Farris' the Fury, too. I guess with a
> bit of
> thought we could come up with plenty more. But what's the point?
No point. Just shootin' the breeze.
> I'm not
> putting SK down for any of this. I love the guy's fiction (almost
> as much as
> I love his non-fiction). I just don't think you should put down
> any of the
> other authors that have been mentioned in this thread.
Eeesh. Why not? Please don't tell me you're defending John Saul? God
help us. Is there an alt.books.john-saul?
> The nature
> of the
> beast is to read and digest and assimilate and come up with
> something new
> that has little bits of all of your influences in there. That's
> how it works
> in literature, music, art, film-making, every damn thing. This
> isn't a bad
> thing. Just don't make out that King was the inventor of this
> entire genre
> and ignore the rest or you'll be missing out and some of its very
> best
> moments.
No, no, no. Matheson, Jackson, Blatty, Lovecraft, Bloch, Lumley, Rice,
Ellison, I love 'em all. Hell, I'll even throw in some (just some)
McCammon(sp) and Simmons. Haven't tried any Laymon but I've heard good
things so I will if I have time. But no Dean Koontz for me or John
Saul especially. Bought, tried, hated, tossed. No time for those
boys. I don't feel like I'm missing a thing. Give me the masters and
not the masterbaters.
Not that there's anything wrong with that! :)
---
MMD
Derek Rutherford
MMD wrote in message
>
>
>I think this is a pretty big stretch. No more than third cousins, once
>removed. But damn, Swan Song sleeps with its sister The Stand and
>buggers it nightly!
Heh! LOL.
>
>No point. Just shootin' the breeze.
>
Me, too.
>Eeesh. Why not? Please don't tell me you're defending John Saul? God
>help us. Is there an alt.books.john-saul?
>
No! I'm with you on John Saul!
>
>No, no, no. Matheson, Jackson, Blatty, Lovecraft, Bloch, Lumley, Rice,
>Ellison, I love 'em all. Hell, I'll even throw in some (just some)
>McCammon(sp) and Simmons. Haven't tried any Laymon but I've heard good
>things so I will if I have time. But no Dean Koontz for me or John
>Saul especially. Bought, tried, hated, tossed. No time for those
>boys. I don't feel like I'm missing a thing. Give me the masters and
>not the masterbaters.
>
Tried Layman (The Cellar) and didn't like it. Tried three Koontz and didn't
get on with them so I guess we're pretty much on the same wavelength (mind
you, I didn't really get on with Rice, either).
Blatty's Exorcist and Legion...superb!!
Just so you know where I'm coming from, my top SK stuff is The Mist, The
Body, Carrie, & Salem's Lot. I'm in favour of shorter novels rather than
doorstoppers (though I've read all of SK except for a couple that followed
The Dark Half/Needful Things/Geralds Game period when I thought he'd gone
off the boil).
Joe Lansdale is worth adding to your list, too (but not The Drive In
novels).
Take care,
Derek R
LT...@webtv.net
But aren't we bothered by the fact that the ideas for some of these
books are remarkably similar? And it always seems to be King who had the
idea first?>
<King certainly wasn't the first author to write a post-apocalyptic
novel, or a coming-of-age tale, or even a serial novel (Michael McDowell
did that with the Blackwater series back in the late '70s or early
'80s---and then there were all the serial novels of the 19th and early
20th centuries.
That's one reason I got fed up with King fans many years ago: they often
think that King is the only one to ever do anything.
--
Hunter>
If you really want to go back, try "Earth Abides" by George R. Stewart,
copyright 1949, it is a great novel, similar to "The Stand" with out the
"spiritual" effects
Lane
Never hold a cat,
while starting a vacuum cleaner...
Scott Peterson
MMD <mmdudek...@perfectserve.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:2750ac20...@usw-ex0101-007.remarq.com...
> > King certainly wasn't the first author to write a post-apocalyptic
>
> Who was? Be specific & keep it within the past twenty years or so.
>
On the Beach by Neville Shute was published in 1957. It deals with people
in Australia, waiting for the nuclear fallout that has killed off the rest
of the world population to reach them. I think that qualifies as a
post-apocalyptic precursor to The Stand. I am sure there are many more, but
that is all I can come up with off the top of my head.
--
Scott
A day without sunshine is, like, night.
Scribbler
LT...@webtv.net wrote:
> <Scribbler wrote:
> But aren't we bothered by the fact that the ideas for some of these
> books are remarkably similar? And it always seems to be King who had the
> idea first?>
>
>
But...I didn't...it wasn't...someone else...why won't they?...4 times
now...I can't...<knuckles cracking>...it just isn't right.
<sproing sproing snort sproing, madly shrieking down the mulberry path,
sanity finally gone>
Scrib
Karen Marie Cvitkovitch
Some similarities though it mostly takes place in one town and the
symbols for good and evil are not as pronounced as Colorado and Vegas.
Karen:)
DarkWolf
Scullycat2
One of my ALL-TIME favorites. I've read it several times.
Cathi K
http://scullycat2.tsx.org
***************************
Here I am, standing in the corner
breathing in your essence
looking like a victim that didn't see a thing.
- Greg Stoddard/Psychic Rain
MMD
<pola...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> LT...@webtv.net wrote:
> > <Scribbler wrote:
> > But aren't we bothered by the fact that the ideas for some of
> these
> > books are remarkably similar? And it always seems to be King who
> had the
> > idea first?>
> >
Hey Scrib, I'm glad someone FINALLY agrees with me! In fact, you took
the words right out of my mouth! He he he...
___
MMD
> Stewart,
> copyright 1949, it is a great novel, similar to "The Stand" with
> out the
> "spiritual" effects
> Lane
I looked it up at Amazon. If you look down at the list called "People
who bought this book also bought.."
Lucifer's Hammer (also mentioned here somewhere)
As well as a couple of others, possibly
On the Beach
The Plague
I haven't read any of these, but I will now, God willing.
For arguement's sake, let's eliminate Earth Abides, The Plague, and On
the Beach. Not because I don't think they influenced King when writing
The Stand, because I'm sure they did. I bet he read/loved all three.
It's just that they were all published a good while before 1978 (in the
forties & fifties, IIRC). He didn't release The Stand in the wake of
any of these.
Now, this Lucifer's Hammer (1977) concerns me. I haven't read it. Can
anyone relate the similarities/differences between it and The Stand?
I just realized that I have added at least 5 books to my reading list
as a direct result of this thread. Sigh...
MMD
<derek.ru...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Just so you know where I'm coming from, my top SK stuff is The
> Mist, The
> Body, Carrie, & Salem's Lot. I'm in favour of shorter novels
> rather than
> doorstoppers (though I've read all of SK except for a couple that
> followed
> The Dark Half/Needful Things/Geralds Game period when I thought
> he'd gone
> off the boil).
Those are all great, IMO, but I'd add The Stand, The Long Walk, most of
Night Shift & Skeleton Crew. I prefer the shorter format, too. Really
enjoyed HIA & Four Seasons, not so much Nightmares & Dreamscapes.
I've read everything except Gerald's Game. I've started it at least 10
times and can't get interested. Forced my way through Dolores
Claiborne, Rose Madder & Insomnia, though.
> Joe Lansdale is worth adding to your list, too (but not The Drive
> In
> novels).
Can you suggest one to start with? My reading list groweth...
> Take care,
> Derek R
Scullycat2
>anyone relate the similarities/differences between it and The Stand?
Now, since I've read this one more than once, I'll have a try. Other than a
huge cast of characters, there aren't a whole lot of similarities. I mean, the
end of civilization comes from very different causes. The "good-vs-evil" is a
lot less allegorical and a lot more down and dirty. I just don't see anything
to say that SK *borrowed* from this book in his writing of THE STAND.
Ernest Fairchild
Have a great day!
Ernest
(ern...@imap2.asu.edu)
"I wish I could have the opportunity to prove that money can't buy
happiness."
Scribbler <pola...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3851BB1C...@hotmail.com...
>
>
> MMD wrote:
>
> > But aren't we bothered by the fact that the ideas for some of these
> > books are remarkably similar? And it always seems to be King who had
> > the idea first?
> >
> > Summer of Night=It
> > Boys Life=The Body
> > Swan Song=The Stand
> > The Blackstone Chronicles=The Green Mile (I don't know about the story
> > on this one, since I didn't read TBS, but the idea for releasing a
> > modern serial novel was certainly borrowed)
> >
> > I'm sure there are plenty of other ones (anyone?)
> >
> > When I see a book that blatantly copies an original Stephen King idea,
> > I try to stay away. Still, I sometimes start a book and realize 1/4 of
> > the way in that it's SK territory.
> >
> > There are too many good ideas out there for these guys to be borrowing
> > SK's, IMHO.
> >
> > Just my .02,
>
> I don't think anyone is disputing the chicken-egg theory here. Your
> prerogative, to be sure, though I'm not sure what it has to do with the
quality
> of the actual result. I agree about derivation being a turn-off, but then
we
> all seem to forget that when we find a genre we love and latch onto,
book-wise
> or movie-wise...
>
> Proud hypocrite,
> Scrib
>
>
>
>
> >
> > ---
mat...@hotmail.com
Fog, but I'm pretty sure it came out before Mist. Two books about a
mysterious fog(mist) that comes out of nowhere(in cas of The Fog it is
explained). In Mist the monsters come out of the mist, in The Fog,
the fog turns people into psychotic "monsters". And the Fog is listed
at the end of Danse Macabre with an asterick. Just food for thought.
>I think this is a pretty big stretch. No more than third cousins, once
>removed. But damn, Swan Song sleeps with its sister The Stand and
>buggers it nightly!
>
>But since SK mentions Matheson and TISM in Danse Macabre, you'd have an
>arguement.
>
>I'll have to look up the pub. date on that one, too.
>
> Then we have The Haunting
>> of Hill
>> House and the Shining.
>
>Hmm...same point & arguement as above.
>
>> I would also love to know whether
>> Firestarter was
>> written before or after John Farris' the Fury, too. I guess with a
>> bit of
>> thought we could come up with plenty more. But what's the point?
>
>No point. Just shootin' the breeze.
>
>> I'm not
>> putting SK down for any of this. I love the guy's fiction (almost
>> as much as
>> I love his non-fiction). I just don't think you should put down
>> any of the
>> other authors that have been mentioned in this thread.
>
>Eeesh. Why not? Please don't tell me you're defending John Saul? God
>help us. Is there an alt.books.john-saul?
>
>> The nature
>> of the
>> beast is to read and digest and assimilate and come up with
>> something new
>> that has little bits of all of your influences in there. That's
>> how it works
>> in literature, music, art, film-making, every damn thing. This
>> isn't a bad
>> thing. Just don't make out that King was the inventor of this
>> entire genre
>> and ignore the rest or you'll be missing out and some of its very
>> best
>> moments.
>
>No, no, no. Matheson, Jackson, Blatty, Lovecraft, Bloch, Lumley, Rice,
>Ellison, I love 'em all. Hell, I'll even throw in some (just some)
>McCammon(sp) and Simmons. Haven't tried any Laymon but I've heard good
>things so I will if I have time. But no Dean Koontz for me or John
>Saul especially. Bought, tried, hated, tossed. No time for those
>boys. I don't feel like I'm missing a thing. Give me the masters and
>not the masterbaters.
>
>Not that there's anything wrong with that! :)
>
>---
>
>MMD
>
>
Bev Vincent
<mat...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:3856c3d3.22826445@news...
> What about Mist and The Fog(the book). I've forgotten who wrote The
> Fog, but I'm pretty sure it came out before Mist. Two books about a
> mysterious fog(mist) that comes out of nowhere(in cas of The Fog it is
> explained). In Mist the monsters come out of the mist, in The Fog,
> the fog turns people into psychotic "monsters". And the Fog is listed
> at the end of Danse Macabre with an asterick. Just food for thought.
The first appearance of "The Mist" was in Dark Forces in 1980, which was the
same year that the film version of The Fog came out. Herbert's book came out
in 1975.
--
Bev Vincent
Houston TX
MMD
<ern...@imap2.asu.edu> wrote:
> Writers copy each other frequently. What difference does it make?
> Have a great day!
> Ernest
None, I guess. Each to his own. Like I said, I'm apparently the only
one who feels this way.
If I published a best-selling book about a booger-eating man, then six
months later some other author in the booger genre published a book
about a man with a penchant for nose gold, I would be distressed.
Of course, others have written good books on eating boogers before me.
I read them and enjoyed them. I may have been influenced by them. I
might have even eaten boogers a time or two. But I didn't see "Frank:
The Snot-Miner" on the Top Ten Bestsellers list then suddenly decide a
book on booger-eating might be in my financial best interest.
I just hate to think that there are only 4 or 5 stories in the entire
universe, and writers just rotate in and out of them as necessary.
It's depressing.
Have a great day, too.
___
Ernest Fairchild
he patterned 'Salem's Lot largely on Bram Stoker's Dracula. I have also seen
lots of Poe in what he has written.
Have you read Danse Macabre, where King out and out *says* that there are
only 4 or 5 stories in the horror genre (I forget exactly how many, it's
been a while since I read it)? In order to write a horror story, you take a
central theme, and then make it interesting. Therein lies the art.
Have a great day!
Ernest
(ern...@imap2.asu.edu)
"I wish I could have the opportunity to prove that money can't buy
happiness."
MMD <mmdudek...@perfectserve.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:000b8d9b...@usw-ex0101-007.remarq.com...
Miche...@webtv.net
of John Saul, not Dean Koontz, and he admits to getting th idea from
King.
LT...@webtv.net
From: antti....@kolumbus.fix (Anthill) Re: Stephen King vs Dean
Koontz
now...I can't...<knuckles cracking>...it just isn't right.
Sir &y,
Castle FNG, TCotCS #30, TCotBS #18
Envoy Extraordinary and Minister Plenipotentiary.
--
~ This tagline will self-destruct in 5-million nanoseconds. ~
I had Nothing to do with this, thank you, returning to my corner...
Covenant
Karen Marie Cvitkovitch <kc...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3855A37C...@home.com...
> The Plague by Albert Camus? (1947)
heh...
I tired to read this in French...
Baaaaad move !!
;')
--
Covenant.
A Man With Far Too Much Time On His Hands
mat...@hotmail.com
with a hit. Jez, just look at Puff Daddy. What a complete utter lack
of talent. The thing that really sucks is that I can see these guys
sitting up at night thinking, "Well he sold 200 gazillion copies of
that story, so if I write on like it maybe I can get the core group of
people who will read anything in that genre to buy my book. Then I'll
make lots of money too." This is just not a way to write a book. It
all comes down to intentions. When an author reads a book and is
inspired thats a totally different thing. Maybe I'm biased, I'm an
artist and I see this kind of crap all the time with painting and
such. Only with art they're polite enough to call it a movement
rather than one good idea that spawned a thousand imitators.
Karen Marie Cvitkovitch
Karen:)
Jon Skeet
> What about Mist and The Fog(the book). I've forgotten who wrote The
> Fog, but I'm pretty sure it came out before Mist. Two books about a
> mysterious fog(mist) that comes out of nowhere(in cas of The Fog it is
> explained). In Mist the monsters come out of the mist, in The Fog,
> the fog turns people into psychotic "monsters". And the Fog is listed
> at the end of Danse Macabre with an asterick. Just food for thought.
Beyond those basic similarities, however, the stories are *very*
different. The mist is pretty much just a background in the King story,
whereas the fog is much more prevalent.
The two books really are very different.
--
Jon Skeet - sk...@pobox.com
http://www.pobox.com/~skeet/