Dreamcatcher/It Contradiction? (minor spoiler for Dreamcatcher, major for It)
Nanny Ogg
In the scene where Mr Gray ends up at the place where the Standpipe was,
there's a memorial plaque there from the Losers' Club. What I want to know is
- who put it there? The Losers' Club supposedly forgot everything that
happened after they'd killed It, so they wouldn't have clubbed together and
bought a memorial.
I thought this bit sacrificed plausibility in order to work an `It' reference
in.
commented
Sarah
--
`If you love, Ka-tet can never be broken' - Thom, Prince Hatesbane
`To vanquish demons from without with love that burns within' - Joe Lamb
`Bah, the old complainers nowadays just aren't made like they were' - Ashen
Shugar
Outlander
--
"When I first saw you
with your smile so tender,
my heart was captured;
my soul surrendered."
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the Castle, Knight Protector General, Sir Smooth
ICQ# 78150961
Nanny Ogg wrote in message <20010326122040...@nso-fl.aol.com>...
Robert Whelan
On 26 Mar 2001, Nanny Ogg wrote:
> (spoiler space)
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> In the scene where Mr Gray ends up at the place where the Standpipe was,
> there's a memorial plaque there from the Losers' Club. What I want to know is
> - who put it there? The Losers' Club supposedly forgot everything that
> happened after they'd killed It, so they wouldn't have clubbed together and
> bought a memorial.
>
> I thought this bit sacrificed plausibility in order to work an `It' reference
> in.
I'm not a fan of King's blatant references, but didn't the adults in
IT remember? Or were they fated to forget as well? (It's been a while).
Baden Kirgan
all of the adult's memories. The only time they could have done it was
before they all skipped town and began to forget. But still...
"Outlander" <zero...@cvn.net> wrote in message
news:KMNv6.264$Ni6.1...@nntp2.onemain.com...
Christopher Hill
"Robert Whelan" <rwh...@amanda.dorsai.org> wrote in message
news:Pine.GSO.4.21.010326...@amanda.dorsai.org...
--
Chris Hill
To reply, John Wayne Bobbitt me
q99207...@mail.connect.usq.edu.au
I've given up some things, I guess that doesn't matter.
I've started other things, I guess that doesn't matter.
I finally wrote your song, Another unsent letter
In a pile addressed to you, care of something somewhere better.
"Unsent Letter" Machine Gun Felatio
Microsoft Gump 2001
"> >
> Nope. It all slipped away. Even Mike.
> --
It's years since I read it, but wasn't there a guy at the end of the novel -
one of them - who hadn't left Derry? I think he was a librarian or something
and he still remembered some of what happened, and IIRC, he made some notes
on what happened, but never told anyone...? Or am I just making things up
again??? I'd check myself, but my copy of it is long since lost...
Dave
The BEAST
Microsoft Gump 2001 wrote in message
That *was* Mike.
assisted
The BEAST
deathboy
Outlander wrote:
> Probably Mike Hanlon--he kept a journal, remember?
the pages in said journal were deteriorating rapidly at the end of the book
Amanda Edwards
<Ga...@DeathsDoor.com> wrote in message
news:r8kvbtg4jmdrfna4e...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 26 Mar 2001 15:38:16 -0500, Robert Whelan
> <rwh...@amanda.dorsai.org> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >On 26 Mar 2001, Nanny Ogg wrote:
> >
> >> (spoiler space)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
know is - who put it there? The Losers' Club supposedly forgot everything
that
happened after they'd killed It, so they wouldn't have clubbed together
and bought a memorial.>>
Well, considering the message on the plaque (the spray painted one) they
could have been called back.
With that message, after the ending of It, anything is possible.
Good catch, though. I'd forgotten the memories faded a second time.
Kes
bg1...@binghamton.edu
>At the end of IT they'd all started to forget again, including Mike
>Hanlon (which is why they assume it's actually over finally during the
>period where they realize that they are forgetting)
>Even the journal Mike kept will be useless as the writing on the pages
>fades. IIRC, Mike mentions something about how even the names,
>addresses, and phone numbers for the members of the Loser's Club are
>fading from his address book.
Speaking of which....
*SPOILER*
At the end of IT, Ben and Beverly kind of get together:
"Ben and Beverly came in today to say goodbye...There's somethng in
their eyes when they look at each other, and I'd bet my pension plan
that if they're not making it now, they will be by the time they get
to Nebraska."
So here's my question: if their memories are fading, how is this
supposed to work? Are they going to wake up one morning next to each
other and say "Hey - who the heck are you?"
Oh well. What else can you expect from a girl who gang-bangs in
sewers? ;-)
- Amy
William
>Oh well. What else can you expect from a girl who gang-bangs in
>sewers? ;-)
I think I dated her in high school... :-/
> - Amy
Wm
Randall Flagg
that in IT, Pennywise the Clown was also known as Mr. Robert Gray.
"Nanny Ogg" <swhi...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010326122040...@nso-fl.aol.com...
Microsoft Gump 2001
> that in IT, Pennywise the Clown was also known as Mr. Robert Gray.
>
name had one letter changed down from G to F, his initials would be RF, like
Randall Flagg or Richard Faraday (or whatever). I wonder if he will try to
tie It to The Stand to The Dark Tower?
Dave
En4cerLutair
>name had one letter changed down from G to F, his initials would be RF, like
>Randall Flagg or Richard Faraday (or whatever). I wonder if he will try to
>tie It to The Stand to The Dark Tower?
No offense, but I think you are reading too much into this. The RF referance
was always very plain, and it was always RF. Even if you bump the G to an F,
it's not RF, it's FR. on top of that, the RF initials by all accounts have
numerological signifigance which gives them their importance. Changing one of
the letters, even subtly, changes the signifigance, defeating the purpose
entirely.
Microsoft Gump 2001
> numerological signifigance which gives them their importance. Changing one
of
> the letters, even subtly, changes the signifigance, defeating the purpose
> entirely.
What is the numerological significance? I've always looked at it wondering
if there was some kind of deeper meaning to it, but I couldn't figure it
out. Is there something deeper to his name?
Dave
Insert Subliminal Message Here
Could be - or the club may have set it up before they left, or maybe the
memories of all the supernatural things faded but the fact of the child's
deaths remained (as it obviously did - many times in Dreamcatcher's flashbacks
it's mentioned how dangerous a place Derry was to kids, and presumably
Dreamcatcher takes place after Pennywise is dead), so they erected the monument
to the kids with no memory of the rest of it. But then, how did they know how
to get in touch with each other, if all the memories were fading?
Brian
"The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity." -
Harlan Ellison
Remove the obvious to reply, please.
Nanny Ogg
<som...@somewhere.com> writes:
>I haven't read DREAMCATCHER yet, but your mention of a Mr. Gray reminds me
>that in IT, Pennywise the Clown was also known as Mr. Robert Gray.
I'd forgotten that. But, although I won't go into spoilers here..... Mr Gray
is what you might call a nickname rather than an actual name, and there's a
reason for it. It's not a Pennywise tie-in.
All the best,
Sarah
--
`If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, you'll be
taller than everyone else.' Kipling and _I'm Sorry I Haven't A Clue_
`Unfortunately Real Life lacks a decent tourist information service' Adrian
Morgan
Nanny Ogg
writes:
>Speaking of which....
>
>*SPOILER*
>
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>At the end of IT, Ben and Beverly kind of get together:
>
>"Ben and Beverly came in today to say goodbye...There's somethng in
>their eyes when they look at each other, and I'd bet my pension plan
>that if they're not making it now, they will be by the time they get
>to Nebraska."
>
>So here's my question: if their memories are fading, how is this
>supposed to work? Are they going to wake up one morning next to each
>other and say "Hey - who the heck are you?"
I wondered about this myself, but I think it could work. Bear in mind that the
Losers never even seemed to notice the mysterious blanks around their childhood
memories - one of them describes it as amnesia so complete you forget you
_have_ amnesia. So it seems as if they not only didn't remember their
childhoods, but just somehow never even _thought_ about their childhood enough
to notice that there was a giant blank there. It was like a mental block.
What's more, it seems to affect others - Audra's married to Bill for several
years but never thinks it's strange that she knows so little about his
childhood. Bill explains this away, when his memory starts to return, by
saying that she had so much family of her own that it took up all her field of
vision, but I can't believe that would explain her not wanting to know at least
a bit more than `My parents are dead and my brother died as a child.'
I think Ben and Bev would just be left with the same sort of mental block, and
it would affect other people who knew them to an extent as well, so no-one
would ever ask for a detailed story of how the two of them met...... somehow
no-one would ever _think_ of asking. Might be a little extreme for them to
remember _nothing_ about it at all, but I think they could remember just the
barest outline (`We used to know each other when we were kids, then we lost
touch for years and met up again recently') and they'd just never think about
examining the story more closely. If the amnesia for childhood would work,
this would.
Nanny Ogg
bhr...@aol.com.nospam (Insert Subliminal Message Here) writes:
>>spoiler space)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>In the scene where Mr Gray ends up at the place where the Standpipe was,
>>there's a memorial plaque there from the Losers' Club. What I want to know
>>is
>>- who put it there? The Losers' Club supposedly forgot everything that
>>happened after they'd killed It, so they wouldn't have clubbed together and
>>bought a memorial.
>>
>>I thought this bit sacrificed plausibility in order to work an `It'
>reference
>>in.
>>
>>commented
>>Sarah
>>
>>--
>>`If you love, Ka-tet can never be broken' - Thom, Prince Hatesbane
>>`To vanquish demons from without with love that burns within' - Joe Lamb
>>`Bah, the old complainers nowadays just aren't made like they were' - Ashen
>>Shugar
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Could be - or the club may have set it up before they left,
There'd have been a mention of that in It, I should think. It needs time to
arrange something like that, quite apart from the fact that people just aren't
thinking about these things immediately after the initial disaster. The Losers
left Derry within less than a week after beating It.
> or maybe the
>memories of all the supernatural things faded but the fact of the child's
>deaths remained (as it obviously did - many times in Dreamcatcher's
>flashbacks
>it's mentioned how dangerous a place Derry was to kids, and presumably
>Dreamcatcher takes place after Pennywise is dead), so they erected the
>monument
>to the kids with no memory of the rest of it. But then, how did they know
>how
>to get in touch with each other, if all the memories were fading?
Exactly. OK, you could just about stretch it - maybe they all donated a bunch
of money to Mike before they left and then he remembered just enough to get the
memorial set up - but I just don't think it works very well.