Storm of the Century: Hell *is* Repetition
FuzzyBunny
What can I say. At this point I'm ready to strangle Linoge, not because
he's murdered a bunch of people, but because he's so BORING.
"Give Me What I Want, and I'll Go Away"
"She's/I'm waiting for you in Hell"
"Born in Sin Come on In"
"Hell is Repetition"
Ironic that one of the main slogans IS "Hell is Repetition." Apparently
King is deliberately trying to make his audience experience a taste of
hell by repeating key phrases until they scream. Clever technique, huh?
There is, of course, the very small possibility that this isn't a
clever technique of revealing the infernal, but lazy padding...repeating
lines over and over again in order to avoid writing new ones. I'm
having "Bag of Bones" Deja Vu. Remember "Shit in the same pit" and
and "Does her Cunt suck"? Thank God for ABC's censors.
First Night.
I was glad to see that they eliminated the lines where the kid yells
"Mrs. Clarendon's dead, and her eye is hanging on her cheek" while
he runs down the street, (which is what the script called for) and
saves it for when the kid is among adults. The kid wasn't as scared
as I had hoped...so the line still seemed gratuitous. Was bothered
by the line "I think they guy who did it's still in there". Wasn't
sure why the kid would NOT think so, though I suppose the mystery of
Linoge knowing the boy's secret (is it a secret? Did he lie to get on
the basketball team? This plot point drifted by me...)
I was also glad that something King boasted about getting past the censors
(in the introduction to the script) apparently did NOT get by. The script
called for the kid's basketball to magically bounce through puddles of
blood and continue to bounce, leaving big splats of blood until it bounces
into Linoge's hand. The filmed version has the basketball merely bounce
along into Linoge's hand, so he can use it to smash the TV. Was glad,
also, to see that there was no gratuitous focus on the "freckles of blood"
on Linoge's face after he kills the old lady.
Was relieved, also, that the script's "joke" of focusing on the little
girl Pippa's face, tricking the audience into thinking that HER face
was covered in blood just didn't make the transition to film. The
little girl honestly looked as if she had nothing but strawberry jam
smeared around her mouth.
I don't know whether to fault the director or the script....certainly
I find it better that the gooshy gratuitous nonsense is eliminated, but
nothing replaces it. The scene with Pippa was supposed to be over-the
top...the little girl screaming, the kids yelling, Mike's wife helpless,
the Godly Mike to the magical rescue. The scene is toned down a bit,
and the actors try to behave like real people, but actors trying to
be "real" need to be supported by real dialogue, not dialogue designed
for empty puppets.
The acting in this is terrible. Particularly bad is Mike. He has no
charisma, and so when he starts bossing everyone around, it is totally
unconvincing. It doesn't help, either, that I recognize this Mike as
very similar to the Mike in BAG OF BONES...striding around, bossing
everyone around, the only righteous man, and mystically cued in to
what's going on. There is too much dead space in the dialogue.
People make pronouncements, or ask questions to the air, and then
stare at eachother, or at Linoge. A few of the characters seem to
be alive...Ursula (the heavy red headed lady) and Kat, and the
fellow who hangs out with Mike most of the time, but even they seem
to be struggling with horribly empty lines. The women are given
the worst of it, since their only function is to sit and worry, while
the manly men try to avoid upsettin' the wimmen folks.
Just remembered a poor line. At one point, when Mike and his sidekick
are driving away from the murder scene, Mike turns and makes a big
deal out of the fact that the sound from the TV was on, while they
were coming in, even though it was smashed. Was supposed to be a SPOOOKY
moment, but I don't know why a TV with a smashed screen can't continue to
play sound.
At the end of the first night, two of the islanders kill themselves.
Perhaps I missed something, but I don't know who the second person
was, or what his sin was! Maybe I was interrupted and missed it.
What was his sin, his secret? And the other guy, the guy who sells pot.
When he kills himself, I thought, gee, does he really feel that guilty
about selling pot? Is this what Stephen King considers a truly heinous
"sin" of some kind? I'm not sure he is, since I don't know the
heinousness of the fireman's sin. Either way, it seems that their
killing themselves is due more to Linoge chanting a spell and MAKING
them. I just didn't feel that the psychological motivation to kill
themselves was firmly established AT ALL. Thus the horror is merely
in being pushed around by a Godlike Demon, and the exploration of
these people's feelings, who they are, is totally ignored. I felt
completely cheated at the end of night one. Two dead people, and
why? Because Linoge said "Abracadabra, Kill yourselves?"
I waited for the news after the show, because it promised a line from
King about the series. What King said he hoped for the series was that
people would "care for the characters", because horror doesn't work
unless you really care about the people it is happening to. Well,
Stephen, perhaps if you had invested some care into the SCRIPT it would
have helped!
The children in the film follow the script as being adorably mindless
moppets who chirp cute reduncancies. On the first night they all
seemed like children of the Damned...all identical cherubs who
ask questions in monotone cheeriness. Little Ralphie, when grabbed
by Linoge, OUGHT to have become upset, particularly when his parents
got upset.
The "crowd" of villagers, who gather around the CB radio at the
supermarket, and later in episode two, in the Town Hall, do a lot
of standing and staring. Was glad to see that King's script direction,
at one point, that the camera show people's "eyes getting big"
wasn't attempted on screen...it would have been too funny! But the
standing around and staring seems to be the films replacement for
such directions.
Second Night.
Only one true moment of power in this largely "treading water til the
finale" second night. Kat, the girl who has had an abortion, confronts
her lover, the guy who was two timing her. While they talk, and
accuse eachother, Linoge starts chanting, to make them kill one
another, apparently. King's condemnatory anti-abortion attitude
comes into play here...though it contradicts the acting. The girl
is far more sympathetic than the guy...the dialogue is repetitious,
at least for the guy, who redundantly repeats "it was our child
and you murdered it". I have no idea if King is trying to make a
judgement about who is worse...a person who has an abortion,
or a guy who screws around indiscriminately. But apparently,
judging by what happens, guys who screw around indiscriminately are
of superior moral fibre as long as they are anti-abortion. When
Linoge tries to make the guy kill Kat (who stands for an
interminable time with her back to him while he stands with a
large can uplifted over her head) he manages to throw off the
spell. Linoge then tries Kat, who, apparently because she has
had an abortion, or just because she's female, can't resist, and
beats the guy to death with Linoge's cane. The reason I say that
this scene has power is because it the passions involved actually
seem to merit the violence that occurs, even if the violence is
magically enhanced by Linoge. I think, however, that, as played, the
boy seemed of weaker moral fibre than the girl, in spite of the
abortion on her end. Certainly she seemed to be trying to rebuild,
while he was just whining about "his" child. I don't know why it
was her that was the "weaker" conduit for Linoge. Maybe I'm wrong
and King is just "punishing" the more deserving person, in his mind,
which is the boy. But is he the "more deserving" since he resisted
Linoge? The conection between Linoge's manipulations and the
people's psychology seems totally undefined, except in the broad
"They are all sinners, and all deserve whatever they get" sense.
The "magic" however, seems horribly uneven. Mike, at one point, starts
making a big deal about the Linoge's missing cane (following Kat's
murder of her boyfriend), but I didn't see the cane involved when
the boyfiend was trying to kill Kat with the can of preserves...
only when Linoge decided to give the cane to Kat... and the pot-dealer
didn't hang himself with Linoge's cane...and the firemean killed
himself with an axe, not Linoge's cane. Where the cane is doesn't
really seem to make a difference, except in that one instance where
Linoge gave the cane to Kat.
Horrible example of the "repetition" that is the hell of this miniseries.
Kat kills her boyfreind with Linoge's cane. We the audience know this.
When Kat is found, she mumbles something about the cane, and that the
cane made her do it, and other people shouldn't touch it. Then the
lady who found her runs and finds Mike, and repeats that Kat had
said she had done it with a cane. Then, a later scene starts with
Mike saying:
Mike: Tell me again.
Lady: I've told you the same thing a dozen times....
....and then she repeats AGAIN the what Kat had said about the cane, and
how the cane made her do it, and how no one should touch the cane.
Hell. Pure Hell. At the very least this last conversation could have
cut in in mid sentance..like this..
Mike: You are SURE she said it was a cane?
Lady: Yes. But there wasn't a cane anywhere near! She kept saying I
shouldn't touch it, but I couldn't see what she was talking about.
This dialogue alone could have eliminated the necessity of the second
repetition of the dialogue (where the lady first finds Mike, after
finding Kat and the boyfriend). That is another example of dialogue
that should have been cut down...the lady should have been too
excited, at first, to be calmly repeating the "important clue" about the
cane. This scene could have benefited from some editing just as the kid's
dialogue while running down the street benefited.
This episode contained far too many scenes as Mike and his mindless crew
of islanders stare at Linoge in his cage. For some reason, Mike gets
the bright idea that lots of people in the same room as Linoge is
more dangerous than leaving two people alone with him. Gee, what a
bright idea. Mike already knows that Linoge can manipulate people
from a distance. Why have them sit in another room? For no reason,
it appears, except to give Linoge a chance to pick on one of the
two left, while the other sleeps. Linoge then morphs into The
Emperor from RETURN OF THE JEDI, slams the door shut on the morons
who were sitting in the other room, and shines blue lights and
repeats the annoying mantra "Give me what I want and I'll go away".
Exactly why did he have to morph into his Magician costume, and
shine blue lights just to say that? I was totally flummoxed. I
though something important or different was about to happen. Oh,
I guess Stephen King really fooled me...I just don't get his goofy
sense of humor....
After taking the time to change into his Magic Robes, however, when
we next see him, in the lighthouse, he's dressed in his original
cap and sweater...What was the point of his transformation then?
What is the point of Linoge appearing to be even a little normal
in the first place? Once he transforms into robes, why change back?
Who is he fooling? Or was a mere techincal problem...the blowing
winds in the lighthouse scene kept flipping the robe around, so they
decided to change back to the tight fitting cap? That's it, I'll bet.
I am really tired of the phrase "Give me what I want, and I'll go away".
Linoge, just for fun (and I don't remember what this old lady's "sin"
was, just that she seemed obnoxious) forces another little old
lady to drown herself in the bathroom, the
women who discover her (to stare helplessly in horror) see this
phrase written on the bathrroom mirrors, which is what is focused
on as we fade to commercial. But when we come back from commercial,
Mike and the Menfolk arrive, to help protect the wimpy wimmen from
the sight of the dead old lady (Jeezus, King's a condescending
chauvenist) and the camera focuses on that bathroom mirror AGAIN,
so that we can Ponder its Import Once More.
We get to see it on the computer screen, it uselessly plays on the
weather equipment in the lighthouse (with no one to see it but
Linoge). It's boring. It's unfair to compare King to Rod Serling,
but Serling could have packed the thin material that is being
stretched over 6 hours here, into one half hour episode...at
most one of those rare 1 Hour episodes of the Twilight Zone.
The second night ends with the inhabitants of the town, who are keeping
together at the town hall, who have all been shocked and frightened by
horrible murders, and who know that a vicious murder is loose, and
who Mike suspects of demonic powers, all run out into the middle of
the worst storm of the century, in which it's dangerous to stray too
far from the houses, to watch the lighthouse fall down! And when
a bunch of them get magically whisked away? That's when Mike, our
bright bulb sheriff, decides that it's a bad idea for everyone to
be outside.
The written script indicated, earlier, that one of the most chilling
moments was when Mike's wife suggests to him that Mike do away with
Linoge. Mike earlier resisted "Robby"s suggestion that they do away
with him: "No one would know" with the lame response "We'd Know".
(!!!) Linoge is killing people, all over the place, and Mike is squeamish
about having this guys blood on his hands? He's apparently a non-human
killer...what's Mike's problem? Had this been a more psychological
thriller, where the humanity of Linoge was in doubt somehow, Mike's
scruples might have some force...but not with all the supernatural
stuff shoved in the audiences face like this. As a member of the
audience I'm screaming at Mike "Shoot him! Shoot him now, before he
kills anyone else!" But according to King this was supposed to be
a "chilling moment" because it indicated the corruption in Mike's
wife! Right now, Mike is my least favorite character in the entire
show...he's emotionless, boring, unvonvincing as a "leader", and
is just sitting around wondering why everyone is dying, in spite
of the fact that Linoge is saying "I'm doing it!" at every possible
opportunity! Even after Linoge forces Kat to kill her boyfriend,
no one even bothers to try to stop Linoge while he's doing his
little magic act on the little old lady in the bathroom. Yes,
apparently he's so powerful that it wouldn't work...he caught
a bullet in his bare hands....and that reminds me...why bother
guarding the guy after he catches that bullet? Obviously he
can't be stopped. All those guys sitting around...just staring
at him...
Another example of "repetition". Some bozo stares out the window and
says "It's a white out. How are we supposed to see anything"? It's
a completely inane bit of dialogue, with only one purpose...to
inform the audience that it's bad out there..
Shortly after, when all the idiots tramp out into the "white out" to watch
the lighthouse fall down (miraculously unobscured by the "white out")
another idiot makes "white out" comments as well, further highlighting
the obsurdity of trying to watch the lighthouse fall in such conditions.
If you are supposed to stay near buildings in order to avoid loosing
sight of them, then how can you see the lighthouse?
Hey. I really tried to give this a chance. It's just too horribly
unprofessional. God. I accidentally switched on "Hyperion Bay" for
a few minutes...and it's barbie doll characters were ten times more
alive than these small town "Maine" characters.
Oh well. If there's anything like a pattern to Modern King crap, the
last night will have some entertainment value.. Lot's of pyrotechnics,
shouting, screaming,
Oh! Here's a moment that was spooky, and I rather enjoyed! The dream that
everyone shares, about the abandoned town, and everyone walking off the
pier, muttering "I'm sorry, Linoge...I should have given you what you
wanted." All with "Croatan" written on their foreheads. Brrr! That
was a nice moment. If the final two hours are of this caliber (and
it's likely that all the good stuff was saved for last) it may
redeem itself, a little.
MartyG5723
<snipped to save everyone from falling asleep again)
Your long rambling review was ten times more boring than anything that appeared
on my TV set. Are you always so verbose?
MartyG
Jennifer Hardy
<19990216033108...@ng93.aol.com>...
Oh boy, do I agree. Marty, you're a better (wo)man than me.....I didn't
get past FuzzyBunny's (Robert Whelan's?) first paragraph!
For someone who finds the story boring, FuzzyBunny's got a hell of a lot to
say! (Methinks s/he doth protest too much!)
Cheers,
Jennifer
FuzzyBunny
> >From: FuzzyBunny <rwh...@peppermint.forest.of.evil
>
> <snipped to save everyone from falling asleep again)
>
> Your long rambling review was ten times more boring than anything that appeared
> on my TV set. Are you always so verbose?
Sorry Marty. Did it strain your brain to read something longer than one
sentence?
Chris Biggs
Being a long term King fan I'm quite disappointed -- this is a huge rip off.
Damn glad that it's on TV and not in a theater. There are some cool visuals
and chilling moments but they lack in numbers. I liked the effectiveness of
people magically disappearing while watching the lighthouse and the Lemmings
thing but all the inconsistencies, repitition, and shit characters doesn't
hold up. King has lost it. Time to retire before it gets worse.
Chris
FuzzyBunny wrote:
--
====
"The town fell above us as we rose to the ground."
Benoit Doyon-Gosselin
Again, you make waves and you are right 80% of the time. People are so narrow
mind and think that because it's Stephen king's movies, books or grocery
list.... it's always great and a masterpiece. I do enjoy watching SOTC but
man, what you said is right.
Where you are not right is about the cane I think. Mike started to think
about the cane when he took a picture of it on the chair and then it was
gone. Of course, the cane did not hang or put the axe in the poor fella face
but the cane was there, maybe an eye or a transfer of power from linoge to the
the cane to the victims. The cane was there when the old lady drown. I think
that Linoge can only use his powers if he sees the victim or if the cane is
present to see for him. So Mike made a big deal of it and he,s right. Don't
you think he should make a big deal of the facts that Linoge doesn't have a
wallet or tag on his clothes....? No, but a mysterious cane... In the end,
the cane is not the key but without it, linoge would be less dangerous i
think.
The worst thing about the whole show is this one. Let's take Needful things
as an example. In it, we know that Gaunt is looking only for destruction and
he does it the way he wants: giving people stuff for favors... his only goal
is destruction and he succeed.
In SOTC, i know and (SPOILER) SPOILER)
some other people know that Linoge wants a child to follow his path.... Well,
he should say so and if people don't want to give itto him than he can start
killing people. If in the first part, he says to Mike when Mike ask him what
do you want: I want a child!!! yours!!!! if not i kill everyone. Mike would
have said: never! But after a few murders he would have think about it and
probably change his minds ( in fact, he will give the child!) But the way
it's done now is that Linoge kill whoever he wants and put his ridiculous
message on the wall in paint, blood, lipsick, pen.... but NO ONE can give him
what he wants!!!! they don't know what he wants!!! it's stupid.... If Mike
and the rest would have known from the beginning, he would have give him the
child after a while.
> What do you think Robert?
Anyway, the rest of your saying is true....
Benoit
SLGbchh
read enough to see the struggle (hopefully a benign one) already forming, one
with no gray area: STORM rules or STORM sucks. And, of course, I'm sure there
are other, separate threads right now taking up this debate.
I don't know what the net opinion of this Usenet-group collective is, but let
me say this: King stated that he honestly believed he was delivering unto us a
novel in a different format- the miniseries. Guess what? He is absolutely
accurate: he has alchemized what should have been a novel into a three-part
sweeps event. Nothing necessarily wrong with this, but if you really watch
STORM with a critical mind, one main thing comes to said mind: the pacing is
rather slow. And in this case, the pacing is slow precisely because King is
correct in that we are essentially watching what should have been read. Take
the scene with Linoge trying to psychicly bash Cat by proxy over the head with
a can of foodstuff...imagine having read that in prose form (and I'm not
talking about 'play form, either)? Wouldn't it have been better? We would
have been privy to the internal monologues of the characters, thus increasing
the provocation of the scene. I think a lot of this kind of thing abounds in
the first two nights. Also, on the subject of Linoge: I actually don't find
him boring, I find him fascinating, and herein lies another problem- he's such
a captivating entity that just about all other scenes which are sans his
presence just don't cut it for me; so far, all the
here-comes-the-storm-let's-get-ready-for-the-storm-EXT. SNOW FALLING-EXT. TREE
FALLING ON CAR-EXT. DOCK WASHED AWAY has done nothing for me. I basically
relish the time I get to spend with Linoge, he's almost like an anti-hero to me
(one other thing about Andre: am I mistaken, but wasn't it implied- in
interviews, write-ups, etc.- that he was supposed to be an ambiguous
character, neither good nor evil?; a Congressional majority of the series is
over, and so far- at least to yours- no fuzzy line exists: he is unadulterated
badness). And finally, one last thing, a small thing, but I'm curious as hell:
anyone else slightly annoyed with the accents?
mst
I also agree with the bulk of your review. It's a dissappointment, and at
this point, I'm seriously considering taping Thursdays installment because
I'd rather see what happened to Doug Ross. As far as the story "making
sense" goes, I think that is the problem at the heart of King's recent work.
It didn't use to matter whether every plot point was logical when the
characters were so real and believable that their poor decisions made sense
because those were the type of mistakes you'd expect them to make. When the
characters are caricatures, however, those idiosyncracies have no context to
create believable human flaws.
And some of the casting choices are just plain strange. I thought Robbie
Beals was supposed to be a portly, piggish little man...not a greying
statesmanlike figure. The guy they've got playing him isn't anywhere NEAR
obnoxious enough...not to mention too old to have a four year old son...as
was the Peter Godsoe actor. Did they just forget about that? That the true
link between these people are their children?
Ursula was one of the better actresses, but I still don't quite buy that
she's got a young child running around that town hall basement and she
doesn't even mention to Molly that someone should watch out for her while
she goes to check on her husband. At this point, I can't even tell who all
the parents and kids are...makes for a poor sense of concern on Thursday
when the kids are in mortal jeopardy.
--
Teri
++++
"Well, since you got here by not thinking, it seems reasonable
to expect that, in order to get out, you must start thinking."
Tock the Watchdog
mst
>And finally, one last thing, a small thing, but I'm curious as hell:
>anyone else slightly annoyed with the accents?
BINGO!
The accents aren't natural at all...and sometimes, they're downright
inconsistent. Make up your minds, people...are you Mainers or not? Casey
Siemasko (?) is one of the few that seems to be comfortable talking like
that, and the actress who plays Ursula got it right, too. The others, who
are ALL supposed to be born and bred on that island, including Mike, almost
seem embarrassed when they try to capture the accent, like they know they're
not doing it right and they don't want to bother...or maybe they just feel
the accent's silly and don't want to even try.
Max Devore
SLGbchh wrote
> I basically
>relish the time I get to spend with Linoge, he's almost like an anti-hero
to me
>(one other thing about Andre: am I mistaken, but wasn't it implied- in
>interviews, write-ups, etc.- that he was supposed to be an ambiguous
>character, neither good nor evil?; a Congressional majority of the series
is
>over, and so far- at least to yours- no fuzzy line exists: he is
unadulterated
>badness).
What interests me is the interaction between Linoge and Anderson. Anderson
is the only person that Linoge will speak to directly, beyond uttering his
"Give me..." phrase or a recounting of some past sin. Granted, Anderson does
get the benefit of Linoge's insight as well, but there have been some other
interesting exchanges between the two. The passing over of the bullet.
Linoge volunteering to help Anderson get the hanged man down.
It is easy for us to define Linoge as evil based on his actions, but I think
that he views himself as amoral or ultramoral. Beyond or without morality.
He is what he is, a dispenser of retribution. The piper who must be paid.
Janna Rauser
> (2nd night of viewing)
>
>
>
>
> The "magic" however, seems horribly uneven. Mike, at one point, starts
>
> making a big deal about the Linoge's missing cane (following Kat's
> murder of her boyfriend), but I didn't see the cane involved when
> the boyfiend was trying to kill Kat with the can of preserves...
Actually, I believe this was a can of McCall's Apple Juice, but as he
was
looking at the large can he was going to hit her with, the label changed
to
say "McCane" and a picture of the cane appeared on the label.
> only when Linoge decided to give the cane to Kat... and the pot-dealer
>
> didn't hang himself with Linoge's cane...and the firemean killed
> himself with an axe, not Linoge's cane. Where the cane is doesn't
> really seem to make a difference, except in that one instance where
> Linoge gave the cane to Kat.
>
>
>
> stretched over 6 hours here, into one half hour episode...at
> most one of those rare 1 Hour episodes of the Twilight Zone.
>
> The second night ends with the inhabitants of the town, who are
> keeping
> together at the town hall, who have all been shocked and frightened by
>
> horrible murders, and who know that a vicious murder is loose, and
> who Mike suspects of demonic powers, all run out into the middle of
> the worst storm of the century, in which it's dangerous to stray too
> far from the houses, to watch the lighthouse fall down! And when
> a bunch of them get magically whisked away? That's when Mike, our
> bright bulb sheriff, decides that it's a bad idea for everyone to
> be outside.
>
> Even after Linoge forces Kat to kill her boyfriend,
> no one even bothers to try to stop Linoge while he's doing his
> little magic act on the little old lady in the bathroom.
At this point there has been no association with what Linoge is doing
andany of the deaths.
Jeff & Traci De
that nobody is reading my responding comments. Nevertheless, I've snipped
certain things due to length. Where I have snipped you may safely assume that
either A. it was opinion, and I don't care to argue with opinion, or B. it was
just too annoying to me to make a response, or even C. I thought that Fozzy
actually had a point there.
All my love,
Traci
FuzzyBunny wrote:
>
> (2nd night of viewing)
>
> What can I say. At this point I'm ready to strangle Linoge, not because
> he's murdered a bunch of people, but because he's so BORING.
>
> "Give Me What I Want, and I'll Go Away"
> "She's/I'm waiting for you in Hell"
> "Born in Sin Come on In"
> "Hell is Repetition"
>
> Ironic that one of the main slogans IS "Hell is Repetition."
>
> First Night.
>
> I was glad to see that they eliminated the lines where the kid yells
> "Mrs. Clarendon's dead, and her eye is hanging on her cheek" while
> he runs down the street, (which is what the script called for) and
> saves it for when the kid is among adults. The kid wasn't as scared
> as I had hoped...so the line still seemed gratuitous. Was bothered
> by the line "I think they guy who did it's still in there". Wasn't
> sure why the kid would NOT think so, though I suppose the mystery of
> Linoge knowing the boy's secret (is it a secret? Did he lie to get on
> the basketball team? This plot point drifted by me...)
Apparently a great number of plot points did.
Start here. Who said where that only the guilty get killed? Why would that be
scary? So you live a blameless life and you are safe? No. The scary thing is
that you don't have to "deserve" it to be a victim. the scary thing is that the
innocent get slaughtered while minding their own business.
(snipped liberally throughout for length)
> Just remembered a poor line. At one point, when Mike and his sidekick
> are driving away from the murder scene, Mike turns and makes a big
> deal out of the fact that the sound from the TV was on, while they
> were coming in, even though it was smashed. Was supposed to be a > SPOOOKY moment, but I don't know why a TV with a smashed screen can't > continue to play sound.
And if it were still playing sound when they got in the room, then it would be
cause to say "Hey, wow, you'd think a tv that's busted that bad couldn't still
play" There would be nothing spooky about it.
>
> At the end of the first night, two of the islanders kill themselves.
> Perhaps I missed something, but I don't know who the second person
> was, or what his sin was! Maybe I was interrupted and missed it.
> What was his sin, his secret? And the other guy, the guy who sells pot.
> When he kills himself, I thought, gee, does he really feel that guilty
> about selling pot? Is this what Stephen King considers a truly heinous
> "sin" of some kind? I'm not sure he is, since I don't know the
> heinousness of the fireman's sin. Either way, it seems that their
> killing themselves is due more to Linoge chanting a spell and MAKING
> them. I just didn't feel that the psychological motivation to kill
> themselves was firmly established AT ALL. Thus the horror is merely
> in being pushed around by a Godlike Demon, and the exploration of
> these people's feelings, who they are, is totally ignored. I felt
> completely cheated at the end of night one. Two dead people, and
> why? Because Linoge said "Abracadabra, Kill yourselves?"
Yes. What is scary about people who have a REASON to commit suicide doing
so? Not a thing. The scary part is people who have NO reason to suddenly start
killing themselves. The scary part is that somebody way across town takes
control of their bodies and makes them kill themselves. I think it is
terrifying - wondering if their brains are shut off, or dead already, or are
they inside screaming and trying to regain the control of their bodies? Are
they in there, still aware? I'm assuming so. It's very King-like.
>
> The children in the film follow the script as being adorably mindless
> moppets who chirp cute reduncancies. On the first night they all
> seemed like children of the Damned...all identical cherubs who
> ask questions in monotone cheeriness. Little Ralphie, when grabbed
> by Linoge, OUGHT to have become upset, particularly when his parents
> got upset.
But it was scary that he wasn't. I mean, he wasn't while it was happening
because he couldn't SEE his parents, he didn't know they were upset. His back
was to them. Of course, you missed that. Since you missed the cane being at all
the death scenes, I'm not surprised. You miss major plot elements, I can't
expect you to notice details. (But what kind of spell has Linoge already
thrown over little Ralphie? (who names a kid Ralph anymore?))
>
> The "crowd" of villagers, who gather around the CB radio at the
> supermarket, and later in episode two, in the Town Hall, do a lot
> of standing and staring. (snipped)
It is, however, what REAL people do in REAL life. Stand around and listen,
try to figure out what's up....
>
> Second Night.
>
> Only one true moment of power in this largely "treading water til the
> finale" second night. Kat, the girl who has had an abortion, confronts
> her lover, the guy who was two timing her. While they talk, and
> accuse eachother, Linoge starts chanting, to make them kill one
> another, apparently. King's condemnatory anti-abortion attitude
> comes into play here...though it contradicts the acting. The girl
> is far more sympathetic than the guy...the dialogue is repetitious,
> at least for the guy, who redundantly repeats "it was our child
> and you murdered it". I have no idea if King is trying to make a
> judgement about who is worse...a person who has an abortion,
> or a guy who screws around indiscriminately. But apparently,
> judging by what happens, guys who screw around indiscriminately are
> of superior moral fibre as long as they are anti-abortion. When
> Linoge tries to make the guy kill Kat (who stands for an
> interminable time with her back to him while he stands with a
> large can uplifted over her head) he manages to throw off the
> spell.
Lovely analysis. Not what the actually happened, which sort of weakens your
argument, but still....
> Linoge then tries Kat, who, apparently because she has
> had an abortion, or just because she's female, can't resist, and
> beats the guy to death with Linoge's cane. The reason I say that
> this scene has power is because it the passions involved actually
> seem to merit the violence that occurs, even if the violence is
> magically enhanced by Linoge.
But again, this isn't about people getting the violence they merit. I have to
guess that this is what you *want* the movie to be about, so you try to read
that into things. It isn't there. No moral judgments about only the bad guys
getting killed, only the weak and sinful... That's not real life, that's not
horror, and it's certainly not the universe according to King. King's heros are
generally equally flawed - not succeeding by being paragons of virtue.
>
> The "magic" however, seems horribly uneven. Mike, at one point, starts
> making a big deal about the Linoge's missing cane (following Kat's
> murder of her boyfriend), but I didn't see the cane involved when
> the boyfiend was trying to kill Kat with the can of preserves...
You missed it. Shall we help you out and point it out for you?
> only when Linoge decided to give the cane to Kat... and the pot-dealer
> didn't hang himself with Linoge's cane...
But in Linoge's presence.
> and the firemean killed himself with an axe, not Linoge's cane.
with the cane present and "supervising" the entire time.
> Where the cane is doesn't really seem to make a difference, except in > that one instance where Linoge gave the cane to Kat.
You aren't really watching this show, are you?
Seriously, you had some marginally good points. Some of them were purely your
opinion, and I won't slam you for having a different opinion than my own. If
you'd posted and said "This just isn't doing it for me..." then I'd have just
responded "Wow, it sure is for me!!" But you posted paragraph upon paragraph
(speaking of repetition...) of evidence which is just plain wrong. I won't
disagree with your opinions, (well, maybe I did where they really annoyed me.)
but I will point out where you are in error on facts.
Sorry this mini isn't as fun for you as it is for me...
Traci
--
From who I was to who I'll be
His love and grace has delivered me
cambo
surprised it's not you who has a miniseries on TV and some know-it-all
nobody named Stephen King is'nt spending his life running it down. "Hell is
trying to get through your post without falling asleep"
FuzzyBunny wrote in message ...
cambo
surprised it's not you who has a miniseries on TV and some know-it-all
nobody named Stephen King is'nt spending his life running it down. "Hell is
trying to get through your post without falling asleep"
FuzzyBunny wrote in message ...
Phlemonade
I was thinking the exact same thing......especially people with "normal" names
like Mike and Molly Anderson....Hmmm.....where was that guy with a post on here
looking for a "king" name for his baby?
cambo
surprised it's not you who has a miniseries on TV and some know-it-all
nobody named Stephen King is'nt spending his life running it down. "Hell is
trying to get through your post without falling asleep"
FuzzyBunny wrote in message ...
Phlemonade
Speaking of repition...What's with the "I'm a little teapot" song ?...I know
Limoge sang it in the beginning, while drinking old lady
Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaartha's (for the record, I love the accents...I dunno if
people in Maine really sound like that, but I like it) tea...but why is
everyone singing tht song before they commit suicide/ murder?
I assume King's idea was just to put a eerie twist on an old childhood
nursery rhyme to creep everyone out....but why pick on the teapot song? There
are plenty of childrens songs and rhymes that already carry scarey or violent
messages, Rock-a bye -baby (song about an infant falling out of a tree), Eeensy
weensy spider ( a lesson in pediatric arachnophobia) Ring around the rosey (a
song about scarlet fever) etc.....so, why curropt a "clean" one?...Oh
wait...maybe that's the whole idea?......
BTW.... speaking of songs and repetion...the repetitive "Give me what I
want"....brings back a song that I can't get out of my head now.....Remember
the old Bangles tune "If she knew what she wants"" I've been singin that song
slightly changing the lyrics.."If they knew he wants...they'd be giving it to
him" LOL
SLGbchh
>What interests me is the interaction between Linoge and Anderson. Anderson
>is the only person that Linoge will speak to directly, beyond uttering his
>"Give me..." phrase or a recounting of some past sin. Granted, Anderson does
>get the benefit of Linoge's insight as well, but there have been some other
>interesting exchanges between the two. The passing over of the bullet.
>Linoge volunteering to help Anderson get the hanged man down.
>
>It is easy for us to define Linoge as evil based on his actions, but I think
>that he views himself as amoral or ultramoral. Beyond or without morality.
>He is what he is, a dispenser of retribution. The piper who must be paid.
Max, I had a longer response to your post, but I lost my AOL connection just
before finishing it.
Let me just briefly say I find the thought of Linoge being beyond morality
quite diverting, but I think Linoge so far has displayed a definite bias
towards evil due to the fact that he is not acting as a mere catalyst for the
reactions of evil taking place...I think one can definitely say he is a
reactant, not just an enzyme (I like this biochemical metaphor because, in a
sense, enzymatic molecules are neutral, are they not?). Cool point, though,
Max.
MartyG5723
<Sorry Marty. Did it strain your brain to read <something longer than one
<sentence?
Whoosh - the sound of the point going completely over FB's head!
MartyG
Benoit Doyon-Gosselin
Instead of just bashing down the a guy who gives an honest opinion with
valuable arguments, what did you think of SOTC? I mean, Robert wouldn't be
able to write SOTC, he's not better than King, he's just a critic that is not
blindfold like too many of us (mincluding me sometimes) about SK's work.
Let's face it, a lot of adaptation from King's work were bad. This one has a
good box and fancy wrapping but there's not much coherence in the box.... the
storyline is thin...
But you have to enjoy.... and be respectful of all critics...
Benoit
Stephen Disney
believe.
Stephen
Benoit Doyon-Gosselin <bend...@escape.ca> wrote in message
news:36C9BCE6...@escape.ca...
Stephen Disney
>FuzzyBunny wrote:
>>
>> At the end of the first night, two of the islanders kill themselves.
>> Perhaps I missed something, but I don't know who the second person
>> was, or what his sin was! Maybe I was interrupted and missed it.
>> What was his sin, his secret? And the other guy, the guy who sells
pot.
>> When he kills himself, I thought, gee, does he really feel that
guilty
>> about selling pot? Is this what Stephen King considers a truly
heinous
>> "sin" of some kind? I'm not sure he is, since I don't know the
>> heinousness of the fireman's sin. Either way, it seems that their
>> killing themselves is due more to Linoge chanting a spell and MAKING
>> them. I just didn't feel that the psychological motivation to kill
>> themselves was firmly established AT ALL. Thus the horror is merely
>> in being pushed around by a Godlike Demon, and the exploration of
>> these people's feelings, who they are, is totally ignored. I felt
>> completely cheated at the end of night one. Two dead people, and
>> why? Because Linoge said "Abracadabra, Kill yourselves?"
If I remember right, Regan in The Excorsist also did violence to herself
(with a crucifix). Is her case any less horrifying because she didn't
deserve it? Or, is it your opinion that her possession was justified?
Stephen
Stephen Disney
seems to love that song). Why he likes that particular song, I don't
know.
Stephen
Phlemonade <phlem...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990216165946...@ng137.aol.com...
FuzzyBunny
> Hey,
>
> >FuzzyBunny wrote:
> >>
> >> At the end of the first night, two of the islanders kill themselves.
> >> Perhaps I missed something, but I don't know who the second person
> >> was, or what his sin was! Maybe I was interrupted and missed it.
> >> What was his sin, his secret? And the other guy, the guy who sells
> pot.
> >> When he kills himself, I thought, gee, does he really feel that
> guilty
> >> about selling pot? Is this what Stephen King considers a truly
> heinous
> >> "sin" of some kind? I'm not sure he is, since I don't know the
> >> heinousness of the fireman's sin. Either way, it seems that their
> >> killing themselves is due more to Linoge chanting a spell and MAKING
> >> them. I just didn't feel that the psychological motivation to kill
> >> themselves was firmly established AT ALL. Thus the horror is merely
> >> in being pushed around by a Godlike Demon, and the exploration of
> >> these people's feelings, who they are, is totally ignored. I felt
> >> completely cheated at the end of night one. Two dead people, and
> >> why? Because Linoge said "Abracadabra, Kill yourselves?"
>
> If I remember right, Regan in The Excorsist also did violence to herself
> (with a crucifix). Is her case any less horrifying because she didn't
> deserve it? Or, is it your opinion that her possession was justified?
> Stephen
Since we are talking about Stephen King, and his attitudes towards his
characters, and his tendency to "judge" his characters, and enjoy their
punishment, I don't know why you bring "The Exorcist" into it. Did King
write the Exorcist? Did King direct it? What's your point?
In the Exorcist, the little girl was established as a real little girl. I
cared for her. I didn't want her mutilated by the possession. The
characters in this miniseries just weren't explored or made human in
any believable way, and if the director had followed King's directions
fully, would have been developed as annoying caricatures, deliberately
so so it would be fun to "punish" them. We already see signs of it with
that little nasty old lady who taunts Kat about her sex life, and later
gets drowned in the sink. Ha! She deserved it!
The Exorcist never made me feel that the Real Regan deserved to be
possessed, though I sensed some sort of unstated sexual abuse at the
root of the possession. It never was quite explored, though....
temp
>
> Name: vcard.vcf
> Part 1.2 Type: text/x-vcard
> Encoding: 7bit
> Description: Card for CHRIS BIGGS
I watched about 15 minutes of "Storm of the Century" and changed the
channel--god what a boring flick. Not only was it boring, but the acting
was stupid and the characters were about as interesting as the obituary
page. I'm sorry but I think that Stephen King should just stick to
novels and give up writing for television--there's always something
lost.
Actually, I was laughing throughout the scene where the old lady gets it
when she answers the door. "I'm coming as fast as I can..." or whatever
it was she said. That line was also hysterical, "Born in lust--turn to
dust. Born in sin--come on in." God, I was rolling. After that, I had
to change the channel--I mean, just the sight of the walker--hurtling
through the air, was enough to make me piss my pants. I said good night
after that. Oh I checked back every once in awhile, just to make sure I
wasn't being too hasty and sure enough... I wasn't.
FuzzyBunny
WARNING. SPOILERS IN BENOIT's QUOTED MATERIAL FOR THE LAST EPISODE.
On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Benoit Doyon-Gosselin wrote:
> Dear Robert,
>
> Again, you make waves and you are right 80% of the time. People are so narrow
> mind and think that because it's Stephen king's movies, books or grocery
> list.... it's always great and a masterpiece. I do enjoy watching SOTC but
> man, what you said is right.
>
> Where you are not right is about the cane I think. Mike started to think
> about the cane when he took a picture of it on the chair and then it was
> gone. Of course, the cane did not hang or put the axe in the poor fella face
> but the cane was there, maybe an eye or a transfer of power from linoge to the
> the cane to the victims. The cane was there when the old lady drown. I think
> that Linoge can only use his powers if he sees the victim or if the cane is
> present to see for him. So Mike made a big deal of it and he,s right. Don't
> you think he should make a big deal of the facts that Linoge doesn't have a
> wallet or tag on his clothes....? No, but a mysterious cane... In the end,
> the cane is not the key but without it, linoge would be less dangerous i
> think.
My problem with the cane appearing with Kat is...I don't know why the cane
makes an actual PHYSICAL appearance, to be actually USED by Kat, when it
isn't physically involved in any other death.
Peter Godsoe (the pot dealer) saw the cane float to the rafters...and then
hung himself from the rafters with a rope.
The Fireman (?) was being watched by the cane, but it didn't manifest
itself as part of any of his equipment. He killed himself with an axe.
Billy Soames saw the wolf's head of the cane on the can of Apple sauce (or
whatever) but he tried to kill Kat with a can of apple sause, not the
cane.
The little old Lady who drowned in the sink saw the cane standing in the
corner, and said "Just like Dad's" but didn't use the cane to kill
herself.
But Kat actually picks up and uses the actual cane. Why? What makes her
special? Is it because she had an abortion? Does that make her one with
the Demonic Linoge? Because she is a Killer? Is there any particular
reason why she gets to use the cane? Or is it just a variation on the
different ways the cane kills?
> The worst thing about the whole show is this one. Let's take Needful things
> as an example. In it, we know that Gaunt is looking only for destruction and
> he does it the way he wants: giving people stuff for favors... his only goal
> is destruction and he succeed.
> some other people know that Linoge wants a child to follow his path.... Well,
> he should say so and if people don't want to give itto him than he can start
> killing people. If in the first part, he says to Mike when Mike ask him what
> do you want: I want a child!!! yours!!!! if not i kill everyone. Mike would
> have said: never! But after a few murders he would have think about it and
> probably change his minds ( in fact, he will give the child!) But the way
> it's done now is that Linoge kill whoever he wants and put his ridiculous
> message on the wall in paint, blood, lipsick, pen.... but NO ONE can give him
> what he wants!!!! they don't know what he wants!!! it's stupid.... If Mike
> and the rest would have known from the beginning, he would have give him the
> child after a while.
>
>
> > What do you think Robert?
This is pretty stupid. Early on there is a scene where Linoge tells Mike
"Give me what I want...." and Mike says "What do you want?" and Linoge
doesn't answer! Linoge says something about "having a talk" and after
he's in his cell, Mike says to him "Later we'll have that talk you
wanted, sir." (Mike is so polite to Linoge, and so rude to the
townsfolk!). And Linoge makes this huge deal with magic lights and
a wizard's robe, and all he says is "Give me what I want, and I'll
go away." I really don't know how the story would have been hurt to
do what you suggest. I guess the audience wouldn't be "hooked" by the
cheap mystery of what it is that Linoge wants. Now, I get the idea
that what Linoge wants is the damnation of the Townspeople, when they
"give him what he wants", but then, why didn't Linoge want the souls
of the people he killed? Did they KNOW what he wanted, and kill themselves
rather than give it to him? Why did he pick them particularly? Why does
he let others survive to be "damned"?
There's only one reason Linoge isn't saying what he wants. Because
otherwise there'd be no reason to stretch this out for 6 hours.
He'll tell them what he wants in the first half hour of the last
episode, and we'll finally get the story going.
Robert W.
FuzzyBunny
> I first must confess that I haven't read everything in this thread, but I've
> read enough to see the struggle (hopefully a benign one) already forming, one
> with no gray area: STORM rules or STORM sucks. And, of course, I'm sure there
> are other, separate threads right now taking up this debate.
>
> I don't know what the net opinion of this Usenet-group collective is, but let
> me say this: King stated that he honestly believed he was delivering unto us a
> novel in a different format- the miniseries. Guess what? He is absolutely
> accurate: he has alchemized what should have been a novel into a three-part
> sweeps event. Nothing necessarily wrong with this, but if you really watch
> STORM with a critical mind, one main thing comes to said mind: the pacing is
> rather slow. And in this case, the pacing is slow precisely because King is
> correct in that we are essentially watching what should have been read. Take
> the scene with Linoge trying to psychicly bash Cat by proxy over the head with
> a can of foodstuff...imagine having read that in prose form (and I'm not
> talking about 'play form, either)? Wouldn't it have been better? We would
> have been privy to the internal monologues of the characters, thus increasing
> the provocation of the scene.
Very good point. But what does it say about King's ability to look at his
own screenplay and imagine it? That he wasn't able to look at this scene
and think "This is really going to suck without internal monlogue of some
kind..." It could have been fixed by dialogue from Linoge, speaking the
boy's "thoughts" for him in the way Linoge spoke that gay-basher's
thoughts.
I think a lot of this kind of thing abounds in
> the first two nights. Also, on the subject of Linoge: I actually don't find
> him boring, I find him fascinating, and herein lies another problem- he's such
> a captivating entity that just about all other scenes which are sans his
> presence just don't cut it for me; so far, all the
> here-comes-the-storm-let's-get-ready-for-the-storm-EXT. SNOW FALLING-EXT. TREE
> FALLING ON CAR-EXT. DOCK WASHED AWAY has done nothing for me. I basically
> relish the time I get to spend with Linoge, he's almost like an anti-hero to me
> (one other thing about Andre: am I mistaken, but wasn't it implied- in
> interviews, write-ups, etc.- that he was supposed to be an ambiguous
> character, neither good nor evil?;
Well, I guess this would have worked if the director hadn't taken the
subject deadly seriously, and really supported the goofy, "What a bunch
of creeps these villagers are" attitude in the script, and had fun beating
up on them. But this would have required some charismatic acting...the
dope dealer would have needed to be an annoying dope-head of some kind....
the Fireman...I don't know....Kat would have had to be obnoxiously selfish
and callous about her abortion...he boyfriend more selfish and whiny about
his "rights"...and when Linoge squashes them all...good riddance! But
this playful, EC Comics Cryptkeeper mode seems to be something King
second guessed himself on, or the director second guessed him on, and they
try to play it all straight, but with the same script...which doesn't
support playing it straight. My suspicion that this is KIng's normal
modus operandi...creating cartoons, and a horror to smash them with, and
only IF he second drafts, rewriting the characters as sympathetic...only
in this the "rewrite" is performed by the director and the actors, who
don't know they are supposed to be playing venal buffoons.(a lot of the
actors don't seem to know WHAT they are supposed to be playing!)
a Congressional majority of the series is
> over, and so far- at least to yours- no fuzzy line exists: he is unadulterated
> badness). And finally, one last thing, a small thing, but I'm curious as hell:
> anyone else slightly annoyed with the accents?
They seem to come and go, and they are more annoying for being the only
noticeable quality in otherwise dead and flat delivery by most of the
actors in this...was there any rehearsal?
cambo
surprised it's not you who has a miniseries on TV and some know-it-all
nobody named Stephen King is'nt spending his life running it down. "Hell is
trying to get through your post without falling asleep"
Jennifer Hardy
Stephen Disney <dis...@bulloch.net> wrote in article
<7acvo4$1cq$1...@news3.infoave.net>...
> I assume they sing it to show that they are controlled by Linoge (who
> seems to love that song). Why he likes that particular song, I don't
> know.
The creepy thing for me is that I had just spent the weekend babysitting my
9 month old twin nieces who's favourite song is......wait for it
now......"I'm a Little Teapot"! I must have sung that friggin' song 250
times over the course of two days.
I arrived home Sunday evening just in time for SoC and.....wait for it
now....."I'm a Little Teapot".
oooooohhhhh.....eerie
Jennifer
(who would certainly not complain if she never heard that %&$# song again!)
FuzzyBunny
> Robert...
>
> I also agree with the bulk of your review. It's a dissappointment, and at
> this point, I'm seriously considering taping Thursdays installment because
> I'd rather see what happened to Doug Ross. As far as the story "making
> sense" goes, I think that is the problem at the heart of King's recent work.
> It didn't use to matter whether every plot point was logical when the
> characters were so real and believable that their poor decisions made sense
> because those were the type of mistakes you'd expect them to make. When the
> characters are caricatures, however, those idiosyncracies have no context to
> create believable human flaws.
If their poor decisions were in keeping with their character, then they
made sense...
> And some of the casting choices are just plain strange. I thought Robbie
> Beals was supposed to be a portly, piggish little man...not a greying
> statesmanlike figure. The guy they've got playing him isn't anywhere NEAR
> obnoxious enough...not to mention too old to have a four year old son...as
> was the Peter Godsoe actor. Did they just forget about that? That the true
> link between these people are their children?
Robbie Beals is really odd. There's one scene where he complains about how
he didn't believe the town's ancestors depended on a central emergency
shelter, only to be corrected by Ursula, and given a history lesson...
and she's obviously YOUNGER than he is! The dialogue was designed for
an older lady to a younger, obnoxious man. And when Robbie's wife talks
about leaving him, you don't understand why, because his performance is
so...understated...he seems like a harmless windbag...not dangerous at
all, even though he's supposed to be.
> Ursula was one of the better actresses, but I still don't quite buy that
> she's got a young child running around that town hall basement and she
> doesn't even mention to Molly that someone should watch out for her while
> she goes to check on her husband. At this point, I can't even tell who all
> the parents and kids are...makes for a poor sense of concern on Thursday
> when the kids are in mortal jeopardy.
Did she? I still didn't pick that one up, and I rechecked the tapes
tonight...
FuzzyBunny
> SLGbchh wrote in message <19990216151541...@ng101.aol.com>...
> >And finally, one last thing, a small thing, but I'm curious as hell:
> >anyone else slightly annoyed with the accents?
>
> BINGO!
>
> The accents aren't natural at all...and sometimes, they're downright
> inconsistent. Make up your minds, people...are you Mainers or not? Casey
> Siemasko (?) is one of the few that seems to be comfortable talking like
> that, and the actress who plays Ursula got it right, too. The others, who
> are ALL supposed to be born and bred on that island, including Mike, almost
> seem embarrassed when they try to capture the accent, like they know they're
> not doing it right and they don't want to bother...or maybe they just feel
> the accent's silly and don't want to even try.
One of the positive spins King was trying to put on the series was his
praise of the director, who he mentions as having a quality of a dictator,
which "all good directors must have". But it doesn't sound like a
dictatorial director is really the best choice for a film that requires
warm, human performances.
mst
>otherwise there'd be no reason to stretch this out for 6 hours.
>He'll tell them what he wants in the first half hour of the last
>episode, and we'll finally get the story going.
EXACTLY. I think we're supposed to get the feeling that Linoge is having
fun with the townsfolk, playing with them so they'll cave immediately when
he presents his request...but unfortunately, it's just dragging on and on
and on...
The Stand worked much better as a miniseries, I thought, because stuff kept
happening. There was very little filler, and as I recall, they STILL had to
cut some scenes to fit it all into the timeslot. It was better than I had
expected, unlike this one, which showed promised, but fails to deliver.
mst
and Pete Godsoe.
Fright Master
mean I do agree with some stuff you guys said but I mean to me it wasn't
that bad of a movie. Yeah the script needed a little work but to me thats
just about all it needed. I found the graphics very good, and Linoge pretty
cool. I have to admit its not scary at all but it is entertaining. I'm not
as picky as you guys about movies I guess. I suppose everyone has their own
opinions and views on movies. Mines just aren't as mean as some peoples.
Chris Biggs wrote in message <36C97F53...@newbridge.com>...
>Well Bunny, fuck what everyone is saying about your review. I fully agree.
>Being a long term King fan I'm quite disappointed -- this is a huge rip
off.
>Damn glad that it's on TV and not in a theater. There are some cool
visuals
>and chilling moments but they lack in numbers. I liked the effectiveness
of
>people magically disappearing while watching the lighthouse and the
Lemmings
>thing but all the inconsistencies, repitition, and shit characters doesn't
>hold up. King has lost it. Time to retire before it gets worse.
>Chris
>
>FuzzyBunny wrote:
>
Neal Tircuit
FuzzyBunny Wrote
>Robbie Beals is really odd. There's one scene where he complains about how
>he didn't believe the town's ancestors depended on a central emergency
>shelter, only to be corrected by Ursula, and given a history lesson...
>and she's obviously YOUNGER than he is! The dialogue was designed for
>an older lady to a younger, obnoxious man.
She talks of seeing a picture of Robbie's ancestor, not of actually seeing
said
ancestor. She is obviously some type of Island Services employee and would
have very easy access to historical documents, pictures and such.
Utherwise, I have enjoyed reading your opinions. Some I have agreed with,
others
dissagreed. But, it has made for an interesting thread.
Neal
FuzzyBunny
> FuzzyBunny wrote:
> > Even after Linoge forces Kat to kill her boyfriend,
> > no one even bothers to try to stop Linoge while he's doing his
> > little magic act on the little old lady in the bathroom.
>
> At this point there has been no association with what Linoge is doing
> andany of the deaths.
Perhaps. But the screenplay doesn't make it clear who knows what. Mike
has heard Linoge say "Give me what I want" he's seen the writing on the
wall, that disappeared, he's aware (isn't he) of the writing on the
fireman's truck and on the pot-dealer's body, and he's seen the writing
on the computer screen...and there's no association between Linoge's
violent pantomimes and the deaths? Pretty dense, if you ask me. Of
course, in the context of this film, none of the villagers TALK to
eachother, they just stand around and stare, so I guess there's no
way any of this wierd information could be passed around and connections
be made. Oh, and the convenient habit of the menfolk of not telling the
women anything, (forcing boring dialogue as the women figure it out
for themselves) helps. And, yes, the phone lines are down, and the
CB radio doesn't work well...but when it does, no one tells eachother
anything....wierd for talkative small town communities...
FuzzyBunny
On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Jeff & Traci De wrote:
<re: lack of connection between killling and guilt, in SOC>
> Start here. Who said where that only the guilty get killed? Why would that be
> scary? So you live a blameless life and you are safe? No. The scary thing is
> that you don't have to "deserve" it to be a victim. the scary thing is that the
> innocent get slaughtered while minding their own business.
By hanging themselves? By hitting themselves with axes? Hey, if Linoge had
been shown waving his fingers and NATURAL disasters kept taking lives on
the island..freezing to death, hit by a tree, washed away by a wave...I
would have no problem with this. Linoge could leave his messages near
their bodies, supernaturally written near their bodies. But if they are
killing themselves, or eachother, what is the natural connection between
their actions and their deaths?
<re: the suicides as forced by Linoge>
> > why? Because Linoge said "Abracadabra, Kill yourselves?"
>
> Yes. What is scary about people who have a REASON to commit suicide doing
> so? Not a thing. The scary part is people who have NO reason to suddenly start
> killing themselves. The scary part is that somebody way across town takes
> control of their bodies and makes them kill themselves. I think it is
> terrifying - wondering if their brains are shut off, or dead already, or are
> they inside screaming and trying to regain the control of their bodies? Are
> they in there, still aware? I'm assuming so. It's very King-like.
You don't think having a reason to commit suicide is scary? Which is
scarier, being hypnotized, and basically going unconscious, and killing
yourself in a trance, or being CONVINCED by an evil force that you SHOULD
kill yourself, and killing yourself because you AGREE? If someone
hypnotized me to jump off a cliff, I wouldn't be scared, I'd just do it
and be dead. But if I knew I was killing myself, and was doing it for
real reasons that a demon had awakened in me, THAT would be scary.
> > The children in the film follow the script as being adorably mindless
> > moppets who chirp cute reduncancies. On the first night they all
> > seemed like children of the Damned...all identical cherubs who
> > ask questions in monotone cheeriness. Little Ralphie, when grabbed
> > by Linoge, OUGHT to have become upset, particularly when his parents
> > got upset.
>
> But it was scary that he wasn't. I mean, he wasn't while it was happening
> because he couldn't SEE his parents, he didn't know they were upset. His back
> was to them. Of course, you missed that. Since you missed the cane being at all
> the death scenes, I'm not surprised. You miss major plot elements, I can't
> expect you to notice details. (But what kind of spell has Linoge already
> thrown over little Ralphie? (who names a kid Ralph anymore?))
But when his parents took him back, he didn't notice that they were upset
either....and little kids are very attuned to their parents feelings.
Unless they are Devil Children. Which is what all the kids in this series
are acting like.
> > The "crowd" of villagers, who gather around the CB radio at the
> > supermarket, and later in episode two, in the Town Hall, do a lot
> > of standing and staring. (snipped)
>
> It is, however, what REAL people do in REAL life. Stand around and listen,
> try to figure out what's up....
Yeah, but they actually TALK to eachother while they do it. Not stand and
stare in depressed silence.
> > Only one true moment of power in this largely "treading water til the
> > finale" second night. Kat, the girl who has had an abortion, confronts
> > her lover, the guy who was two timing her. While they talk, and
> > accuse eachother, Linoge starts chanting, to make them kill one
> > another, apparently. King's condemnatory anti-abortion attitude
> > comes into play here...though it contradicts the acting. The girl
> > is far more sympathetic than the guy...the dialogue is repetitious,
> > at least for the guy, who redundantly repeats "it was our child
> > and you murdered it". I have no idea if King is trying to make a
> > judgement about who is worse...a person who has an abortion,
> > or a guy who screws around indiscriminately. But apparently,
> > judging by what happens, guys who screw around indiscriminately are
> > of superior moral fibre as long as they are anti-abortion. When
> > Linoge tries to make the guy kill Kat (who stands for an
> > interminable time with her back to him while he stands with a
> > large can uplifted over her head) he manages to throw off the
> > spell.
>
> Lovely analysis. Not what the actually happened, which sort of weakens your
> argument, but still....
What actually happened? How does it differ from what I just recounted?
> > Linoge then tries Kat, who, apparently because she has
> > had an abortion, or just because she's female, can't resist, and
> > beats the guy to death with Linoge's cane. The reason I say that
> > this scene has power is because it the passions involved actually
> > seem to merit the violence that occurs, even if the violence is
> > magically enhanced by Linoge.
>
> But again, this isn't about people getting the violence they merit. I have to
> guess that this is what you *want* the movie to be about, so you try to read
> that into things. It isn't there. No moral judgments about only the bad guys
> getting killed, only the weak and sinful... That's not real life, that's not
> horror, and it's certainly not the universe according to King. King's heros are
> generally equally flawed - not succeeding by being paragons of virtue.
Or it's about people getting the violence King thinks it might be fun for
them to get. Because King has pet peeves against certain kinds of people.
Like pot-dealers. Like stereotypes of sweet little old ladies (and BOY
was Ms. Clarendon a stereotype).
Did you ever read "Rose Madder"? In that King has a policeman killed who
looks like "The Beaver" from the TV show. What was the purpose? Only so
King could get some yucks out of murdering "The Beaver".
> > The "magic" however, seems horribly uneven. Mike, at one point, starts
> > making a big deal about the Linoge's missing cane (following Kat's
> > murder of her boyfriend), but I didn't see the cane involved when
> > the boyfiend was trying to kill Kat with the can of preserves...
>
> You missed it. Shall we help you out and point it out for you?
Yes, it appeared ON the can of preserves, but he didn't try to kill her
WITH the cane, but with the can of preserves...
> > only when Linoge decided to give the cane to Kat... and the pot-dealer
> > didn't hang himself with Linoge's cane...
>
> But in Linoge's presence.
The pot dealer saw the shadow of the cane rise to the rafters, but he hung
himself from them with a rope. He didn't use the cane itself.
> > and the firemean killed himself with an axe, not Linoge's cane.
>
> with the cane present and "supervising" the entire time.
Right, but he didn't use the cane to kill himself.
> > Where the cane is doesn't really seem to make a difference, except in > that one instance where Linoge gave the cane to Kat.
>
> You aren't really watching this show, are you?
You are missing my point. Kat is the only one who actually uses the cane
itself. My question is, WHY.
> Seriously, you had some marginally good points. Some of them were purely your
> opinion, and I won't slam you for having a different opinion than my own. If
> you'd posted and said "This just isn't doing it for me..." then I'd have just
> responded "Wow, it sure is for me!!" But you posted paragraph upon paragraph
> (speaking of repetition...) of evidence which is just plain wrong. I won't
> disagree with your opinions, (well, maybe I did where they really annoyed me.)
> but I will point out where you are in error on facts.
What errors did I commit? I didn't say the can wasn't hovering around
demonically, I said the cane wasn't involved physically in the murders...
except for Kat...and I wonder why Kat was the exception.
Robert W.
FuzzyBunny
> You know, you're such an expert on script writing and plot development, I'm
> surprised it's not you who has a miniseries on TV and some know-it-all
> nobody named Stephen King is'nt spending his life running it down. "Hell is
> trying to get through your post without falling asleep"
Hi, Cambo! Is this your first time posting? Glad you delurked!
FuzzyBunny
FuzzyBunny
> Just my SotC 2 cents......
>
> Speaking of repition...What's with the "I'm a little teapot" song ?...I know
> Limoge sang it in the beginning, while drinking old lady
> Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaartha's (for the record, I love the accents...I dunno if
> people in Maine really sound like that, but I like it) tea...but why is
> everyone singing tht song before they commit suicide/ murder?
> I assume King's idea was just to put a eerie twist on an old childhood
> nursery rhyme to creep everyone out....but why pick on the teapot song? There
> are plenty of childrens songs and rhymes that already carry scarey or violent
> messages, Rock-a bye -baby (song about an infant falling out of a tree), Eeensy
> weensy spider ( a lesson in pediatric arachnophobia) Ring around the rosey (a
> song about scarlet fever) etc.....so, why curropt a "clean" one?...Oh
> wait...maybe that's the whole idea?......
I think you are right, King's main motivation is to creep everyone out
about a fairly innocent, (though annoying) song. I'm not sure what the
connection between "teapots" and murder/suicides are...but I suppose
if people are "teapots", and tea is their lives/blood, they can be
"tipped over and poured out". Perhaps that is what he's going for?
> BTW.... speaking of songs and repetion...the repetitive "Give me what I
> want"....brings back a song that I can't get out of my head now.....Remember
> the old Bangles tune "If she knew what she wants"" I've been singin that song
> slightly changing the lyrics.."If they knew he wants...they'd be giving it to
> him" LOL
Heh!
FuzzyBunny
FuzzyBunny
Really, Marty? Which point? That my post was long and boring to you? Or
some other clever remark?
Benoit Doyon-Gosselin
Maybe Kat had to used the cane has a physical object because she was stronger thant the other characters.... Linoge could not do it
with only his mind and the cane's presence. He had to make her take the cane to weaken her and then he would be able to control her
into killing billy...
Just guesssing!!
Benoit
FuzzyBunny
A few more observations on the first two nights....
Noticed that when Hatch talks to Pippa (with her head stuck) he says
"calm down, you'll tear your ears off". But she's totally calm at the
time he says this. (the script called for her to be screaming and bashing
her head around in panic).
Mike seems to have like Linoge better than any of the townspeople.
Whenever anyone asks about the murder they are rudely ignored or
brushed aside...but whenever Mike talks to Linoge he calls him "sir".
Also, Mike only gets pissed off at Linoge after Linoge picks up his
kid...killing the old lady wasn't enough, I guess. Who cared
about her? Who cares about all the people who cared about her and
want to know what's going on? A lot of this may be due to bad acting,
or coaching of the actors. The poor dialogue doesn't help, though.
When Peter Godsoe (the pot-dealer) hangs himself, Hatch, in the next
room, hears him kick the stool away. People take a while to strangle
to death! If he had cut him down in the next 3 or 4 minutes he
could have saved him! But he just goes in and stares...(I missed
the first few minutes of the second night, so this might have been
explained...). And Peter didn't fall from a height and break his
neck, so when Hatch came in he should have been still alive...
hanging, but alive! And Hatch came in IMMEDIATELY.
When Jack (the gay basher) shoots at Linoge, and seems to hit Mike, Mike
is slammed against the bars so hard that he rebounds backwards onto the
floor, where he lies until we come back from commercial. The audience
is sure he's dead. But he gets up, says "It only nicked the skin". Huh?
How does a bullet "nicking the skin" exert enough force to slam a person
around? Technically, the Movie convention of people who are hit by
bullets being "knocked over" is impossible. A gun with the force to
knock someone over will knock the firer of the gun over. But this scene
in the jail cell violates even movie logic. Mike wasn't really hit.
So why did he get "slammed" as if he was?
After Mike gets nicked by the bullet, which slams him against the bars, he
yells at Jack "Keep a safe distance, didn't I tell you that?" Meanwhile,
Mike had been right at the bars, staring at Linoge. And then when
Linoge holds out his hand, Mike puts his hand inside the bars to take
the bullet!
Just after Mike had set up the watch, he says to Linoge "We'll have that
talk you wanted later, sir."
While Linoge is casting spells to kill people Mike asks him politely
"What are you doing, sir, do you mind telling me?" So polite to Linoge,
so rude to everyone else. I guess both Mike and Linoge agree that the
townspeople are dirt.
Soon after Mike gets grazed by a bullet, and finds out that Linoge can
catch bullets with his bare hands, Robby Beal talks to Mike...
Robby: "We could kill him. Highland business is Highland business. Who
would know?"
Mike: "We'd know".
Doesn't this conversation sound wierd after Mike has a pretty good idea
that Linoge CAN'T be killed? Makes moral objections to whether or not
they'd "know" they killed him a bit besides the point, yes?
When everyone has the dream about a newscaster who talks about the
mysterious island, and this dream includes spooky scenes of people
walking into the water like lemmings, how come only Mike had the
dream that explained that the people fell into the ocean? They were
all having the same dream, right? So they all should have had the
dream about falling into the ocean! But when they start sharing
their dream, Mike is the only one with the answer. (this is
another example of hellish repetition...we get to see the dream,
and then wait for boring old Mike to repeat what we just saw.)
That's all. I've run dry.
FuzzyBunny
FuzzyBunny
That works. But there are no scenes in which Linoge tries to make Kat kill
by his mind and the presence of the cane alone, and fails, except in the
just prior scene when he fails with her boyfriend. But why didn't he just
make the boyfriend take the actual cane? Why did he switch to Kat? Still
makes it seem as if he thought Kat was weaker.
Robert W.
FuzzyBunny
To all users of Microsoft Outlook Express. How to snip large passages.
Take your mouse. Hold Down the left button with your index finger.
Drag the mouse down the text till you have highlighted all the
text you want to delete.
Hit the DELETE button, or click on "Edit" and then "Delete".
Voila!
Brian LeBail
chickening out, and didn't have enough time to "prepare" before she
went in the house, that is why he is screaming in his cell "Back by
the door" which I took it as if he was "talking" to the cane, as if it
had its own presence.
Brian
On Wed, 17 Feb 1999 07:47:59 GMT, Benoit Doyon-Gosselin
<bend...@escape.ca> wrote:
>Robert,
>
>Maybe Kat had to used the cane has a physical object because she was stronger thant the other characters.... Linoge could not do it
>with only his mind and the cane's presence. He had to make her take the cane to weaken her and then he would be able to control her
>into killing billy...
>
>Just guesssing!!
>
>Benoit
LVStarman
>fun with the townsfolk, playing with them so they'll cave immediately when
>he presents his request...but unfortunately, it's just dragging on and on
>and on...
>
>The Stand worked much better as a miniseries, I thought, because stuff kept
>happening. There was very little filler, and as I recall, they STILL had to
>cut some scenes to fit it all into the timeslot. It was better than I had
>expected, unlike this one, which showed promised, but fails to deliver.
>
>--
>Teri
>++++
My thoughts were that Linoge is not telling the people what he wants because he
knows that if he just walked into town and said "Give me........and I'll go
away", they would not even give him the time of day. However, by showing the
people just how powerful he is and that he is capable of destroying all of
them, then he sets them up to do anything, even the unthinkable, to be rid of
him. BTW, I did read the book and know what he wants, so the way he is going
about it does make sense. I do feel, though, that it still moves too slowly.
Frances
towil...@procyongroup.com
FuzzyBunny <rwh...@peppermint.forest.of.evil> wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, Benoit Doyon-Gosselin wrote:
>
> > Robert,
> >
stronger than the other characters.... Linoge could not do it
> > with only his mind and the cane's presence. He had to make her take the
cane to weaken her and then he would be able to control her
> >
> > Just guesssing!!
>
> That works. But there are no scenes in which Linoge tries to make Kat kill
> by his mind and the presence of the cane alone, and fails, except in the
> just prior scene when he fails with her boyfriend. But why didn't he just
> make the boyfriend take the actual cane? Why did he switch to Kat? Still
> makes it seem as if he thought Kat was weaker.
>
> Robert W.
>
>
Sorry, but I gotta put my $.02 in here. Linoge did not *fail* with the Billy.
There's a brief scene of Linoge in jail, between Billy almost braining Kat
and Kat braining him, where Linoge exclaims "She's right!" referring to Kat's
castigating Billy for his weakness and selfishness. That's why he switches
from Billy killing Kat to Kat killing Billy. There was certainly no *failure*
of his power. Thanks for listening.
ToniW
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
bsharp
hell!
Kim Hammers
Benoit Doyon-Gosselin wrote in message <36C9BCE6...@escape.ca>...
>In SOTC, i know and (SPOILER) SPOILER)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>some other people know that Linoge wants a child to follow his path....
Well,
>he should say so and if people don't want to give itto him than he can
start
>killing people. If in the first part, he says to Mike when Mike ask him
what
>do you want: I want a child!!! yours!!!! if not i kill everyone. Mike
would
>have said: never! But after a few murders he would have think about it
and
>probably change his minds ( in fact, he will give the child!) But the way
>it's done now is that Linoge kill whoever he wants and put his ridiculous
>message on the wall in paint, blood, lipsick, pen.... but NO ONE can give
him
>what he wants!!!! they don't know what he wants!!! it's stupid.... If Mike
>and the rest would have known from the beginning, he would have give him
the
>child after a while.
Wow! Exactly what I thought throughout the first two installments!
I didn't get the whole point of the repitition of the "Give me what I
want..." phrase either.
I found myself waiting for the BIG SCENE where Anderson actually sits down
with Linoge saying "Ok, dude, What do you want?" I think it is very
unrealistic to think that Anderson knows this guy wants something, and all
around him his neighbors are dying, but he NEVER ASKS. And none of the other
people seem to be asking the obvious question, either. So far, enough of
them have seen the message so that you think they would be asking "Hey, what
does this murderer want?" For all they know the request could be a ticket to
some place warmer!
I think your scenario would be much more interesting: "The ultimate
sacrifice", and what it takes for someone to ponder the exchange, and what
it takes for someone to actually do it. What would it take for you to give
up your child? The death of all those around you? Your own death? What kind
of carnage would finally put you over the line, what would it take? I'd love
to have watched Anderson struggle with this dilemma. KNOWING he could stop
the deaths, yet unwilling to do so.
Yup, definitely more involving and satisfying than what we have seen so far.
LVStarman
>I didn't get the whole point of the repitition of the "Give me what I
>want..." phrase either.
>I found myself waiting for the BIG SCENE where Anderson actually sits down
>with Linoge saying "Ok, dude, What do you want?" I think it is very
>unrealistic to think that Anderson knows this guy wants something, and all
>around him his neighbors are dying, but he NEVER ASKS. And none of the other
>people seem to be asking the obvious question, either. So far, enough of
>them have seen the message so that you think they would be asking "Hey, what
>does this murderer want?" For all they know the request could be a ticket to
>some place warmer!
>I think your scenario would be much more interesting: "The ultimate
>sacrifice", and what it takes for someone to ponder the exchange, and what
>it takes for someone to actually do it. What would it take for you to give
>up your child? The death of all those around you? Your own death? What kind
>of carnage would finally put you over the line, what would it take? I'd love
>to have watched Anderson struggle with this dilemma. KNOWING he could stop
>the deaths, yet unwilling to do so.
>Yup, definitely more involving and satisfying than what we have seen so far.
>
Actually, Mike did ask Linoge what he wanted back when he had him in jail. He
was asking Linoge about the cane. Then, he asked him, "Just what is it you
want, sir?' in reference to the message. Linoge gave no reply. Mike went on
about the origin of Linoge's name.
It took awhile for the people to fully realize how much Linoge could control
their actions even from a jail cell. I think Linoge needed to kill first even
if it was just for his pleasure.
**spoiler space**
Also, when Angie is found, she gives the message from the Linoge that he will
only ask once for their answer. To me that seems that everyone must have
enough knowledge of his power to make the decision at that time. I don't think
just putting Mike only on the hot seat would have satisfied Linoge. He needed
the whole community to feel the guilt, pain, anger and hate towards him and
each other in making that kind of decision. Linoge feeds on all of that. He
gets what he wants and wrecks the lives of those left alive.
Frances
Jerry
Just remember an opinion is just that,AN OPINION
It doesn't mean that you have to agree
Monster News
when coming from a being such as he is...but...it doesn't fly. Comes off
like a South Park LAME. I am really starting to wonder about his writing AND
who ever is cranking these movies out. Shades of "The Shining", the SECOND
one.
--
http://www.themonsterclub.com
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Collectibles and more. Home of MONSTER NEWS
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Stephen Disney wrote in message <7acvo4$1cq$1...@news3.infoave.net>...
>I assume they sing it to show that they are controlled by Linoge (who
>seems to love that song). Why he likes that particular song, I don't
>know.
>Stephen
>Phlemonade <phlem...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:19990216165946...@ng137.aol.com...
>>Just my SotC 2 cents......
>>
>>Speaking of repition...What's with the "I'm a little teapot" song ?...I
>know
>>Limoge sang it in the beginning, while drinking old lady
>>Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaartha's (for the record, I love the accents...I dunno
>if
>>people in Maine really sound like that, but I like it) tea...but why
>is
>>everyone singing tht song before they commit suicide/ murder?
>> I assume King's idea was just to put a eerie twist on an old
>childhood
>>nursery rhyme to creep everyone out....but why pick on the teapot song?
>There
>>are plenty of childrens songs and rhymes that already carry scarey or
>violent
>>messages, Rock-a bye -baby (song about an infant falling out of a
>tree), Eeensy
>>weensy spider ( a lesson in pediatric arachnophobia) Ring around the
>rosey (a
>>song about scarlet fever) etc.....so, why curropt a "clean" one?...Oh
>>wait...maybe that's the whole idea?......
>>
Harry B Kalb
> Speaking of repition...What's with the "I'm a little teapot" song ?...I know
> Limoge sang it in the beginning, while drinking old lady
> Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaartha's (for the record, I love the accents...I dunno if
> people in Maine really sound like that, but I like it)
Do you (or anybody) happen to know whether they really pronunce
"yeah" as "ayuh" so profoundly. I get kind of sick of reading it
every single time someone says "yeah".
Also...do they really refer to each other by first and last
name so often when speaking to the person?? ("Alton Hatcher",
"Billy Soames", "Peter Godsoe"...)
HBK
Jeff & Traci De
>
> On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Jeff & Traci De wrote:
>
> <re: lack of connection between killling and guilt, in SOC>
>
> > Start here. Who said where that only the guilty get killed? Why would that be
> > scary? So you live a blameless life and you are safe? No. The scary thing is
> > that you don't have to "deserve" it to be a victim. the scary thing is that the
> > innocent get slaughtered while minding their own business.
>
> By hanging themselves? By hitting themselves with axes? Hey, if Linoge had
> been shown waving his fingers and NATURAL disasters kept taking lives on
> the island..freezing to death, hit by a tree, washed away by a wave...I
> would have no problem with this. Linoge could leave his messages near
> their bodies, supernaturally written near their bodies. But if they are
> killing themselves, or eachother, what is the natural connection between
> their actions and their deaths?
Why does there need to be a natural connection? And how would there be one if
they got killed by a falling tree? I just think it's scarier to be forced to
kill yourself than to get killed by natural disasters. You are always
susceptible to natural disasters. Sure the guy is just as dead with an axe as
with a big tree falling on him. Doesn't matter to him. But to me as innocent
bystander it's scarier. And the mystery of it all is scarier to the
townspeople. In my opinion.
>
> <re: the suicides as forced by Linoge>
>
> > > why? Because Linoge said "Abracadabra, Kill yourselves?"
> >
> > Yes. What is scary about people who have a REASON to commit suicide doing
> > so? Not a thing. The scary part is people who have NO reason to suddenly start
> > killing themselves. The scary part is that somebody way across town takes
> > control of their bodies and makes them kill themselves. I think it is
> > terrifying - wondering if their brains are shut off, or dead already, or are
> > they inside screaming and trying to regain the control of their bodies? Are
> > they in there, still aware? I'm assuming so. It's very King-like.
>
> You don't think having a reason to commit suicide is scary?
Not for me. You having a reason to commit suicide is not scary for me. Lots of
people have a reason to commit suicide, and do so daily. We hate it, it's sad,
but it's real life - we live with it every day. So it doesn't really cause a
great deal of horror, it doesn't feel Evil. It makes sense, it follows logic.
> Which is scarier, being hypnotized, and basically going unconscious, > and killing yourself in a trance, or being CONVINCED by an evil force > that you SHOULD
> kill yourself, and killing yourself because you AGREE? If someone
> hypnotized me to jump off a cliff, I wouldn't be scared, I'd just do it
> and be dead. But if I knew I was killing myself, and was doing it for
> real reasons that a demon had awakened in me, THAT would be scary.
Scary for you, okay. But you are dead, so that doesn't advance the scaryness
of it for the rest of the crew. Aside from that, I'm not sure how you'd show
that in any sort of interesting way on TV.
I think the loss of personal control is scarier for the viewers - who know
what happened. And the standing around wondering why they did that is scarier
for the townspeople. But I don't know that I agree that the victims are
hypnotized and unaware. I think they are trapped inside, aware but not in
control.
(on the kids):
> >
> > But it was scary that he wasn't. I mean, he wasn't while it was happening
> > because he couldn't SEE his parents, he didn't know they were upset. His back
> > was to them. Of course, you missed that. Since you missed the cane being at all
> > the death scenes, I'm not surprised. You miss major plot elements, I can't
> > expect you to notice details. (But what kind of spell has Linoge already
> > thrown over little Ralphie? (who names a kid Ralph anymore?))
>
> But when his parents took him back, he didn't notice that they were upset
> either....and little kids are very attuned to their parents feelings.
> Unless they are Devil Children. Which is what all the kids in this series
> are acting like.
I disagree. They addressed that. In a later scene we see that mom and Ralphie
have talked about it, and that little Ralphie now knows that Linoge is a bad
guy.
>
> > > The "crowd" of villagers, who gather around the CB radio at the
> > > supermarket, and later in episode two, in the Town Hall, do a lot
> > > of standing and staring. (snipped)
> >
> > It is, however, what REAL people do in REAL life. Stand around and listen,
> > try to figure out what's up....
>
> Yeah, but they actually TALK to eachother while they do it. Not stand and
> stare in depressed silence.
Fozzy! They are TRYING to listen. You don't talk while eavesdropping, it
makes it much harder to hear what's on the CB.
>
> > > Only one true moment of power in this largely "treading water til the
> > > finale" second night. Kat, the girl who has had an abortion, confronts
> > > her lover, the guy who was two timing her. While they talk, and
> > > accuse eachother, Linoge starts chanting, to make them kill one
> > > another, apparently. King's condemnatory anti-abortion attitude
> > > comes into play here...though it contradicts the acting. The girl
> > > is far more sympathetic than the guy...the dialogue is repetitious,
> > > at least for the guy, who redundantly repeats "it was our child
> > > and you murdered it". I have no idea if King is trying to make a
> > > judgement about who is worse...a person who has an abortion,
> > > or a guy who screws around indiscriminately. But apparently,
> > > judging by what happens, guys who screw around indiscriminately are
> > > of superior moral fibre as long as they are anti-abortion. When
> > > Linoge tries to make the guy kill Kat (who stands for an
> > > interminable time with her back to him while he stands with a
> > > large can uplifted over her head) he manages to throw off the
> > > spell.
> >
> > Lovely analysis. Not what the actually happened, which sort of weakens your
> > argument, but still....
>
> What actually happened? How does it differ from what I just recounted?
Well, you've gone into huge paragraphs of analysis about whether King is
trying to say Billy is morally inferior to Kat because he cheated, and he's the
one who got killed, or if Kat is morally inferior to Billy, because having just
had an abortion she was already a murderer and so could kill again. You've just
spent all that time agonizing over it. I'm afraid that when dealing with works
of fiction, we have to actually believe what the characters say. I know that's
poor practice in real life, but in works of fiction it's all we've got. Linoge
said Billy couldn't do it because he was a coward. NOT, as you said, that Billy
was able to shake off the spell. He just couldn't bring himself to do it, and
lost the moment. No matter how long Kat tried to prolong it, standing there
like a big old target.
> > > Linoge then tries Kat, who, apparently because she has
> > > had an abortion, or just because she's female, can't resist, and
> > > beats the guy to death with Linoge's cane. The reason I say that
> > > this scene has power is because it the passions involved actually
> > > seem to merit the violence that occurs, even if the violence is
> > > magically enhanced by Linoge.
> >
> > But again, this isn't about people getting the violence they merit. I have to
> > guess that this is what you *want* the movie to be about, so you try to read
> > that into things. It isn't there. No moral judgments about only the bad guys
> > getting killed, only the weak and sinful... That's not real life, that's not
> > horror, and it's certainly not the universe according to King. King's heros are
> > generally equally flawed - not succeeding by being paragons of virtue.
>
> Or it's about people getting the violence King thinks it might be fun for
> them to get. Because King has pet peeves against certain kinds of people.
> Like pot-dealers. Like stereotypes of sweet little old ladies (and BOY
> was Ms. Clarendon a stereotype).
>
> Did you ever read "Rose Madder"? In that King has a policeman killed who
> looks like "The Beaver" from the TV show. What was the purpose? Only so
> King could get some yucks out of murdering "The Beaver".
Or perhaps because he's trying to show that the innocent are the victims.
THAT is the horror. That people who are innocents, or relative innocents end up
getting in the way of big time evil - not because of anything they have done,
but because that's what evil does. And frankly, we aren't all that personally
involved if a drug dealer gets eaten by a monster. We shrug our shoulders and
say "What do you expect - involved in that life..." Somebody who has smoked or
sold a little bit of pot... Hey, that is most everybody in King's target
audience. How many Baby Boomers never tried a joint? The point is that in the
scheme of things - a little bit of pot is just not that bad.
>
> > > The "magic" however, seems horribly uneven. Mike, at one point, starts
> > > making a big deal about the Linoge's missing cane (following Kat's
> > > murder of her boyfriend), but I didn't see the cane involved when
> > > the boyfiend was trying to kill Kat with the can of preserves...
> >
> > You missed it. Shall we help you out and point it out for you?
>
> Yes, it appeared ON the can of preserves, but he didn't try to kill her
> WITH the cane, but with the can of preserves...
>
> > > only when Linoge decided to give the cane to Kat... and the pot-dealer
> > > didn't hang himself with Linoge's cane...
> >
> > But in Linoge's presence.
>
> The pot dealer saw the shadow of the cane rise to the rafters, but he hung
> himself from them with a rope. He didn't use the cane itself.
>
> > > and the firemean killed himself with an axe, not Linoge's cane.
> >
> > with the cane present and "supervising" the entire time.
>
> Right, but he didn't use the cane to kill himself.
>
> > > Where the cane is doesn't really seem to make a difference, except in > that one instance where Linoge gave the cane to Kat.
> >
> > You aren't really watching this show, are you?
>
> You are missing my point. Kat is the only one who actually uses the cane
> itself. My question is, WHY.
That may be your point NOW. What you said and I responded to was: (cut and
pasted here)
"I didn't see the cane involved when the boyfiend was trying to kill Kat.."
You didn't see the cane involved, I did. In fact, with the cane on the can,
he'd have been killing her with the cane figuratively. That makes the cane more
involved in that one than any of the others.
To address what you are asking now, I'd guess just opportunity. There wasn't
anything else handy, and he didn't have a lot of time to work with.
My question is, why is that really relevant? If you want to pick out every
little thing, Kat is also the only one who killed someone else, rather than
killing herself.
>
> > Seriously, you had some marginally good points. Some of them were purely your
> > opinion, and I won't slam you for having a different opinion than my own. If
> > you'd posted and said "This just isn't doing it for me..." then I'd have just
> > responded "Wow, it sure is for me!!" But you posted paragraph upon paragraph
> > (speaking of repetition...) of evidence which is just plain wrong. I won't
> > disagree with your opinions, (well, maybe I did where they really annoyed me.)
> > but I will point out where you are in error on facts.
>
> What errors did I commit? I didn't say the can wasn't hovering around
> demonically, I said the cane wasn't involved physically in the murders...
> except for Kat...and I wonder why Kat was the exception.
Maybe just because she wasn't killing herself, but someone else.
>
> Robert W.
Gosh, I'm so sad for you. I'm really excited about Thursday's finale, and you
probably aren't at all. I'm having lots of fun with this, and you are not.
Now for me, the scene with Billy and Kat was hollow. The most powerful part
was the people disappearing out of thin air. The first time we saw somebody
yanked out of the scene I jumped out of my seat. The second is when little
Ralphie was following the voice through the door. Yikes!
Traci
--
From who I was to who I'll be
His love and grace has delivered me
Jeff & Traci De
>
> On Tue, 16 Feb 1999, Janna Rauser wrote:
>
> > FuzzyBunny wrote:
>
> > > no one even bothers to try to stop Linoge while he's doing his
> > > little magic act on the little old lady in the bathroom.
> >
> > andany of the deaths.
>
> Perhaps. But the screenplay doesn't make it clear who knows what. Mike
> has heard Linoge say "Give me what I want" he's seen the writing on the
> wall, that disappeared, he's aware (isn't he) of the writing on the
> fireman's truck and on the pot-dealer's body, and he's seen the writing
> on the computer screen...and there's no association between Linoge's
> violent pantomimes and the deaths? Pretty dense, if you ask me.
He did have his back to them. They didn't really see the other pantomime.
They don't know that Billy nearly killed Kat with the can, they only know Kat
killed her boyfriend with the cane. And really, the drown yourself in the sink
pantomime wouldn't have looked very violent to observers.
I think we jump to the supernatural as explanation much more quickly. First
off, we know it's a movie, and second we know it's a Stephen King story. In
real life, a stranger wanders into town and kills a harmless old lady. Then a
few hours later somebody kills himself in the police station (grocery store) and
also in the firehouse.
In real life we'd be looking for an accomplice that killed the guy in the
firehouse and we'd assume that Linoge hypnotized the suicide that happened in
front of him. We certainly wouldn't assume that the killer we already have
locked up is forcing other people to commit suicide.
The poor hapless Sheriff who knows something is a little off - he's denying it
for all he's worth. Most of the time we like our supernatural stuff under our
control nicely, thanks. Words and a cane that disappear - you figure you are
over stressed from the murder and the storm. The words on the wall, they are
the words that Linoge had already said to him, so he'd attribute it to that.
> Of
> course, in the context of this film, none of the villagers TALK to
> eachother, they just stand around and stare, so I guess there's no
> way any of this wierd information could be passed around and connections
> be made. Oh, and the convenient habit of the menfolk of not telling the
> women anything, (forcing boring dialogue as the women figure it out
> for themselves) helps. And, yes, the phone lines are down, and the
> CB radio doesn't work well...but when it does, no one tells eachother
> anything....wierd for talkative small town communities...
You wanted them to tell Ursula over the CB that her husband committed
suicide?
I am surprised that the CB is so ineffective - these people need cell phones.
In my opinion the whole lights, sound and fury scene where we turned Linoge
into the "emperor from Star Wars" was purely to make the people face the fact
that we are dealing with the supernatural.
Admittedly I'm biased, but one of my favorite parts of King's work is watching
the characters try their best to deny and then finally accept that they really
are dealing with the supernatural, and that normal life logic and cause and
effect don't apply. For me, that is one of the things King does best, and
writes most believably.
steve bergeron
> When Jack (the gay basher) shoots at Linoge, and seems to hit Mike, Mike
> is slammed against the bars so hard that he rebounds backwards onto the
> floor, where he lies until we come back from commercial. The audience
> is sure he's dead. But he gets up, says "It only nicked the skin". Huh?
> How does a bullet "nicking the skin" exert enough force to slam a person
> around? Technically, the Movie convention of people who are hit by
> bullets being "knocked over" is impossible. A gun with the force to
> knock someone over will knock the firer of the gun over. But this scene
> in the jail cell violates even movie logic. Mike wasn't really hit.
> So why did he get "slammed" as if he was?
As I read the screenplay and saw the movie, I surmised that it was
Linoge that "pushed" Anderson out of the way, because Linoge needs him
in part 3 and didn't want him killed. Just didn't push him fast/strong
enough to miss getting grazed. Or maybe it was the power that Linoge
used to catch the bullet that forced Anderson back?
stevenb
steve bergeron
>
> Was relieved, also, that the script's "joke" of focusing on the little
> girl Pippa's face, tricking the audience into thinking that HER face
> was covered in blood just didn't make the transition to film. The
> little girl honestly looked as if she had nothing but strawberry jam
> smeared around her mouth.
In my opinion, they didn't even do that part well... I read the
screenplay previous to viewing (which was a mistake) so, I knew it was
supposed to be jam, but my wife who hadn't read it had to ask me what it
was. They didn't show her trying to eat her sandwich despite being
stuck like in the screenplay. In fact you had to look REAL close and at
the right time to see the remains of the sandwich in her hand.
>
> The acting in this is terrible. Particularly bad is Mike. He has no
> charisma, and so when he starts bossing everyone around, it is totally
> unconvincing. It doesn't help, either, that I recognize this Mike as
> very similar to the Mike in BAG OF BONES...striding around, bossing
> everyone around, the only righteous man, and mystically cued in to
> what's going on. There is too much dead space in the dialogue.
> People make pronouncements, or ask questions to the air, and then
> stare at eachother, or at Linoge. A few of the characters seem to
> be alive...Ursula (the heavy red headed lady) and Kat, and the
> fellow who hangs out with Mike most of the time, but even they seem
> to be struggling with horribly empty lines. The women are given
> the worst of it, since their only function is to sit and worry, while
> the manly men try to avoid upsettin' the wimmen folks.
>
I think it was definitely bad casting to put Tim Daly in there for Mike
(not that I have any better suggestions). I was discussing this point
with my wife in that I have relatives in Maine and have visited often.
The "live" characters you cite, I coincidentally think are close to what
Down Easters are like. The accents are great. And people who think
that those accents are a little too "fake" should visit some of those
outlying reaches of Maine... the accent can be quite thick.
> When
> Linoge tries to make the guy kill Kat (who stands for an
> interminable time with her back to him while he stands with a
> large can uplifted over her head) he manages to throw off the
> spell. Linoge then tries Kat, who, apparently because she has
> had an abortion, or just because she's female, can't resist, and
> beats the guy to death with Linoge's cane.
The reason that Billy didn't flatten Kat with that can is not because he
resisted Linoge, it was because he was too gutless. That's why Linoge
says "You *are* a coward". Apparently, Linoge doesn't have absolute
power over the people he decides to manipulate and couldn't make Billy
do it. So he settles for second choice and has Kat do in Billy
instead. She's not too chicken to do it. I'm not sure that King was
trying to make a statement over whether abortion or infidelity is the
bigger sin.
I snipped most of Rob's post to conserve precious server space. But
overall I have to agree with a lot of his points regarding the
miniseries. And I consider myself to be one of those King fans that
like everything he's written. I'll just add another thing that bothered
me about the movie so far. When Ferd is outside the firehouse (as his
buddy is redecorating the door of the pumper) he grabs his binocs and
watches big waves come in and take out the dock area. How the hell did
he see with no power and no moon to provide lighting?? It should have
been pretty damn black down there.
We all know, and King has acknowledged that not everything he writes
gets the Midas touch. He obviously is trying something new and
different and hey, this is not his usual form of storytelling. But, he
also had to possibly had to contend with the issue that he is wrote this
for a broader audience than would read his books. There is a big
difference between people who actually take the time to seek out and
read good literature than those who sit on the couch with a bowl of
chips looking for something to wach on TV. It may be unfortunate, but I
think by and large, network TV has little to offer to people who care
about the quality of programming. There are a few shows that you need a
little intelligence to watch, but not many. And also unfortunately, I
think King may have written "down" to the level of a typical TV viewer
when he wrote the script. He tried to give the story literary
credibility by playing on the theme of another famous horror writer (I
won't spoil it here... watch part 3 and if you don't get it, I'm sure it
will be discussed here after the broadcast), but it doesn't save the
story as a whole.
stevenb
LVStarman
>off, we know it's a movie, and second we know it's a Stephen King story. In
>real life, a stranger wanders into town and kills a harmless old lady. Then
>a
>few hours later somebody kills himself in the police station (grocery store)
>and
>also in the firehouse.
> In real life we'd be looking for an accomplice that killed the guy in the
>firehouse and we'd assume that Linoge hypnotized the suicide that happened in
>front of him. We certainly wouldn't assume that the killer we already have
>locked up is forcing other people to commit suicide.
>
I was watching a program recently on the supernatural and psychic phenomena.
Someone stated on there that when faced with with unusual happenings or
unexplained sights and sounds, our mind is programmed to search for logical
answers and will internally go thru processes to arrive at an answer that
will make sense. Only after it has gone thru great lengths to find a
reasonable explanation for an event will it consider anything beyond the realm
of what it considers natural and rational.
These people were still trying to process what was happening in a sane and
rational way. Once all of that has been ruled out, then they could see that
what was going on was beyond their comprehension and in the area of what is
considered supernatural.
Frances
Steve Bergeron
>
> SLGbchh wrote in message <19990216151541...@ng101.aol.com>...
> >And finally, one last thing, a small thing, but I'm curious as hell:
> >anyone else slightly annoyed with the accents?
>
> BINGO!
>
> The accents aren't natural at all...and sometimes, they're downright
> inconsistent. Make up your minds, people...are you Mainers or not? Casey
> Siemasko (?) is one of the few that seems to be comfortable talking like
> that, and the actress who plays Ursula got it right, too. The others, who
> are ALL supposed to be born and bred on that island, including Mike, almost
> seem embarrassed when they try to capture the accent, like they know they're
> not doing it right and they don't want to bother...or maybe they just feel
> the accent's silly and don't want to even try.
Actually, (as I posted in another thread) the accents *are* natural.
Most of my relatives live in Maine, and thus I've been there often
enough to know the accent. Granted, the accents in the miniseries are
pretty thick, but in such isolated areas like offshore islands they get
that way. I agree with the inconsistency, especially on Tim Daly's
part. I also agree with you that the characters of Ursula and Hatch are
the most believable because they maintain the accent, and their
portrayal is on the mark as a Down East Mainer. That's why I think they
are my favorite characters. Robbie Beals does a pretty good job, but
it's a little forced. Debrah Farentino? Forget it. She doesn't even
belong in the miniseries.
stevenb
FuzzyBunny
> FuzzyBunny wrote:
> >
> > Was relieved, also, that the script's "joke" of focusing on the little
> > girl Pippa's face, tricking the audience into thinking that HER face
> > was covered in blood just didn't make the transition to film. The
> > little girl honestly looked as if she had nothing but strawberry jam
> > smeared around her mouth.
>
> In my opinion, they didn't even do that part well... I read the
> screenplay previous to viewing (which was a mistake) so, I knew it was
> supposed to be jam, but my wife who hadn't read it had to ask me what it
> was. They didn't show her trying to eat her sandwich despite being
> stuck like in the screenplay. In fact you had to look REAL close and at
> the right time to see the remains of the sandwich in her hand.
Right. According to the screenplay, the very first shot of Pippa was
supposed to be a closeup of her face, which pulls back to reveal that
the "blood" is just jam from a sandwich in her hand. But in the film, the
first shot was an establishing wide shot of Pippa's situation, followed
by closeups that didn't really show her as being very panicked. The
first scene that shows the jam, it looks like jam...only in subsequent
shots does it look darker and nastier...and it's already been
established that the girl isn't bleeding to death...just stuck.
> I think it was definitely bad casting to put Tim Daly in there for Mike
> (not that I have any better suggestions). I was discussing this point
> with my wife in that I have relatives in Maine and have visited often.
> The "live" characters you cite, I coincidentally think are close to what
> Down Easters are like. The accents are great. And people who think
> that those accents are a little too "fake" should visit some of those
> outlying reaches of Maine... the accent can be quite thick.
I think that people are bothered by the inane dialogue, and blame the
accents, which are often the only interesting thing about the dialogue.
Had the dialogue been compelling, I don't think folks would be complaining
about the accents being "fake". Almost all the actors, whether using
accents or not, seem to be hesitant and uncomfortable with their lines.
It's this hesitancy that folks notice, and it's even more noticeable
with an accent to draw the attention.
> > When
> > Linoge tries to make the guy kill Kat (who stands for an
> > interminable time with her back to him while he stands with a
> > large can uplifted over her head) he manages to throw off the
> > spell. Linoge then tries Kat, who, apparently because she has
> > had an abortion, or just because she's female, can't resist, and
> > beats the guy to death with Linoge's cane.
>
> The reason that Billy didn't flatten Kat with that can is not because he
> resisted Linoge, it was because he was too gutless. That's why Linoge
> says "You *are* a coward". Apparently, Linoge doesn't have absolute
> power over the people he decides to manipulate and couldn't make Billy
> do it. So he settles for second choice and has Kat do in Billy
> instead. She's not too chicken to do it. I'm not sure that King was
> trying to make a statement over whether abortion or infidelity is the
> bigger sin.
That's what Linoge SAYS. But isn't this just a disgusted insult from
Linoge when Billy resist killing Kat,an impulse partly in response to her
accusation that he IS a coward? His killing her would thus be a way of
"disproving" her accusation by killing her in response, at least, Linoge
might be suggesting that killing Kat is a way to disprove her charge of
cowardice. Of course, it would have helped if if some sort of voicover,
or vocal prompting from Linoge indicated this was Billy's motivation,
as in "Call me a coward? I'll show you, you bitch!" and then when
Billy fails to follow through, Linoge's comment would make more
sense...
Still, Billy's failure to kill Kat says something good about him.
Nothing much is said about Kat, though the fact that she is one of the
few who shows any emotion, and is rather cute seems to counter her actual
actions. I still think that casting is fighting with intention, as it
seems to be all through the series.
> I snipped most of Rob's post to conserve precious server space. But
> overall I have to agree with a lot of his points regarding the
> miniseries. And I consider myself to be one of those King fans that
> like everything he's written. I'll just add another thing that bothered
> me about the movie so far. When Ferd is outside the firehouse (as his
> buddy is redecorating the door of the pumper) he grabs his binocs and
> watches big waves come in and take out the dock area. How the hell did
> he see with no power and no moon to provide lighting?? It should have
> been pretty damn black down there.
Right. The scene where all the people run out to watch the lighthouse fall
DOES contain dialogue that TELLS us that they can't see the lighthouse
because of the "white out" but this is contradicted by the camera quite
clearly showing us the lighthouse...
> We all know, and King has acknowledged that not everything he writes
> gets the Midas touch. He obviously is trying something new and
> different and hey, this is not his usual form of storytelling. But, he
> also had to possibly had to contend with the issue that he is wrote this
> for a broader audience than would read his books. There is a big
> difference between people who actually take the time to seek out and
> read good literature than those who sit on the couch with a bowl of
> chips looking for something to wach on TV. It may be unfortunate, but I
> think by and large, network TV has little to offer to people who care
> about the quality of programming. There are a few shows that you need a
> little intelligence to watch, but not many. And also unfortunately, I
> think King may have written "down" to the level of a typical TV viewer
> when he wrote the script. He tried to give the story literary
> credibility by playing on the theme of another famous horror writer (I
> won't spoil it here... watch part 3 and if you don't get it, I'm sure it
> will be discussed here after the broadcast), but it doesn't save the
> story as a whole.
I still wonder if it's intentional "writing down", or just coinciental.
I still see flashes of sharpness in King's writing, that indicates he
KNOWS he's "writing down", but doesn't care, since reaching the broader
audience is the paramount concern. It's just that as irritated as I
am by this mini-series, I know that if I were in a more tired, less
critical, more willing to be entertained by the broad caricatures, I
would be less bothered by the rough spots of poor acting and repetitive
dialogue. In fact, I might appreciate the repetition because it requires
less attention on my part to get all the necessary points. Repetition thus
is a tool for reaching the larger audience, rather than a clumsy turn-off
for the less significant, but more attentive.
Steve Bergeron
It could be argued either way sucessfully, but I thought it was a
failure of his power that Billy could not kill Kat. What Linoge says in
the jail cell was "she's right... you *are* a coward." I feel that
because Billy was such a coward, Linoge's power could not force Billy to
commit the act. It is sort of like they say when you are hypnotized,
you cannot be forced to do anything under hypnosis that you would not
ordinarily do awake. I think it is supposed to show a precedence that
Linoge is not *all* powerful, but has weaknesses. As we will see in
part three, he tells the Islanders to give him what he wants, because he
cannot take it.
stevenb
Kim Hammers
LVStarman wrote in message <19990217131553...@ng07.aol.com>...
>
>**spoiler space**
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Also, when Angie is found, she gives the message from the Linoge that he
will
>only ask once for their answer. To me that seems that everyone must have
>enough knowledge of his power to make the decision at that time. I don't
think
>just putting Mike only on the hot seat would have satisfied Linoge. He
needed
>the whole community to feel the guilt, pain, anger and hate towards him and
>each other in making that kind of decision. Linoge feeds on all of that.
He
>gets what he wants and wrecks the lives of those left alive.
>
>Frances
Wonderful observations.....I agree with you that this "joint decision" by
the town enhances the process of the decision making and intensifies the
guilt and anger that should surely follow.
I am looking forward to tonight's episode to see how this translates to TV
and whether or not they can capture the anguish and finger pointing of
making such a decision.
Phlemonade
> "yeah" as "ayuh" so profoundly. I get kind of sick of reading it
> every single time someone says "yeah".
>
> Also...do they really refer to each other by first and last
> name so often when speaking to the person?? ("Alton Hatcher",
> "Billy Soames", "Peter Godsoe"...)
I honestly don't know. But, apparantly Stephen King, (who actually lives in
Maine) seems to think so. I recall reading lots of "ayuh's" from Mainers in
most of his books....most recently from the old caretaker at Sarah Laughs (his
name escapes me at the moment) in BoB.
But personally, living in a part of the country where "yeah" is pronounced
"yah"( usually with a "youbetcha" thrown in), I think anything is possible. I
think that most accents that you aren't used to, usually sound quaint and
charming initially, then become irritating.
So, I see your point about the "ayuh's"
As for addresssing people by they're first and last names..... I think
that is just done for dramatic effect. (admittedly, the drama needs a little
work here..the acting in this miniseries ain't the greatest) But, I think it's
supposed to be like, when your mom calls you by your *FULL* name...you know
you're in trouble..... That's my take on it anyway.....
Tim Moses
Steve Bergeron wrote in message <36CBC2...@nospam.ibm.com>...
[re: Maine accents]
I agree with the inconsistency, especially on Tim Daly's
>part.
I wondered about that for a while....then started to wonder
if it was due to his having gone off to college. Perhaps he
purposely lost it? Maybe he was embarrassed to sound
like a "hick" on campus? (Note: I'm not saying that I,
personally, would apply this judgement: I'm trying to imagine
what he would be thinking/experiencing.) It's not uncommon
for students with "strong" accents to try to lose them, in order
to fit in.
What do you think?
KAH
Tim Moses
FuzzyBunny wrote in message ...
>
>WARNING. SPOILERS IN BENOIT's QUOTED MATERIAL FOR THE LAST EPISODE.
>
>
>There's only one reason Linoge isn't saying what he wants. Because
>otherwise there'd be no reason to stretch this out for 6 hours.
>He'll tell them what he wants in the first half hour of the last
>episode, and we'll finally get the story going.
>
Oh, I guess my idea of Linoge "feeding" off the fear he has
generated is just too far off then........
KAH
Tim Moses
Harry B Kalb wrote in message <7afkqf$mui$2...@news.nyu.edu>...
> Also...do they really refer to each other by first and last
> name so often when speaking to the person?? ("Alton Hatcher",
> "Billy Soames", "Peter Godsoe"...)
>
I thought that this was possibly the only way to avoid "name confusion"
in such a small town....if you have several people with the same first
names & everybody knows all those people: how else would you keep
them straight? I went through grade school like that, since I was one of
three girls with the same first name (....I HATED it, too!)
KAH
SLGbchh
I'd say it was an issue of practicality: the director/et al. wanted to imbue
the series with an ambience of Mainesque aboriginality, but it would be
offsetting to have the main character take part in this. It would be
distracting, and most people wouldn't be able to relate to it since most people
don't talk like Mainers. For me- as I stated before- the whole story is
Linoge, that's the hook I've delineated in my head, and I'd be quite content if
no one was putting on the accent. (Besides, when you think about it, does
anyone in the group apply to the characters an accent in their heads when
they're reading a King novel set in his home state? I know I don't, and I know
it's never affected my enjoyment. I think it's the same here: if this truly is
a novel in a different medium, then we just didn't necessarily need the
accents. Linoge could have gone anywhere; it's essentially the story of Linoge
and what he wants...all else is but a transient vector meant to deliver this
slice of horror.)
Stephen Disney
These small off coast islands all down the east coast often feature
close (not always in) breeding and have developed their own dialect.
Any one remember the IBM commercial which featured one such island
getting the internet for the first time. I can't remember the name
right now, but that island has been known for many years as extremely
reclusive. It hasn't been till recently that outside tourism has been
accepted.
Stephen
Steve Bergeron <berg...@nospam.ibm.com> wrote in message
news:36CBC2...@nospam.ibm.com...
TRENA1
"hear" them when I'm reading King's books.
While we're on the subject of accents, I seem to remember learning in American
history class (long time ago, so I could be wrong) that several areas on the
VA/NC coast have populations that speak with a distinctive Old English accent.
Apparently the original settlers never felt the urge to move away and
assimilate with the general population, and the accent remained strong. Anyone
else recall this?
Trena
Favorite comeback:
Man: "Haven't we met before?"
Woman: "Yes, I'm the receptionist at the VD Clinic."
" I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness . . ."
Alan Ginsberg
Stephen Disney
by the IBM commercial where they got the internet for the first time.
They have distint dialects.
Stephen
TRENA1 <tre...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990218155028...@ng-cd1.aol.com...
stevie
Max Devore wrote:
>It is easy for us to define Linoge as evil based on his actions, but
>I think that he views himself as amoral or ultramoral. Beyond or
>without morality. He is what he is, a dispenser of retribution. The
>piper who must be paid.
Interestingly, the interview piece I read with Feore (he is fairly big
news in these parts because of his Stratford history) had him commenting
that he saw the character, on one level, as a "messanger from God". I
thought that fit rather well with the scene of Mike watching the
hellfire and damnation preacher on TV in the first part.
Stevie
Steve Bergeron
>
> > Do you (or anybody) happen to know whether they really pronunce
> > "yeah" as "ayuh" so profoundly. I get kind of sick of reading it
> > every single time someone says "yeah".
> >
> > name so often when speaking to the person?? ("Alton Hatcher",
> > "Billy Soames", "Peter Godsoe"...)
>
> Maine) seems to think so. I recall reading lots of "ayuh's" from Mainers in
> most of his books....most recently from the old caretaker at Sarah Laughs (his
> name escapes me at the moment) in BoB.
> But personally, living in a part of the country where "yeah" is pronounced
> "yah"( usually with a "youbetcha" thrown in), I think anything is possible. I
> think that most accents that you aren't used to, usually sound quaint and
> charming initially, then become irritating.
> So, I see your point about the "ayuh's"
> As for addresssing people by they're first and last names..... I think
> that is just done for dramatic effect. (admittedly, the drama needs a little
> work here..the acting in this miniseries ain't the greatest) But, I think it's
> supposed to be like, when your mom calls you by your *FULL* name...you know
> you're in trouble..... That's my take on it anyway.....
I've never really noticed if there are Mainiacs on this newsgroup that
can offer the difinitive answer for you, but as I've qualified myself in
other threads, most of my relatives live in Maine and I've visited
often. The "ayuh's" are genuine, but as with any dialect, they are more
prevalent where the accent is thicker. "Ayuh" is also heard in New
Hampshire and Vermont (where I live). But as with the case of Maine,
it's heard more in the regions where the accent is thicker.
Addressing people by both names... I'm not sure about that one. I have
the feeling that it does occur, but possibly not as often as the
miniseries would have you beleive. And it is probably more prevalent in
those same areas where the Down East accent is thicker. I don't believe
it stems from "being in trouble" or anything like that. But if I had to
guess, I would say it is because in close knit communities such as on
the island, you have large family groups that may have similar names.
So maybe they have to address people by both names so as to
differentiate one from another??? Just my two cents.
stevenb
Steve Bergeron
>
> On Wed, 17 Feb 1999, steve bergeron wrote:
>
> > FuzzyBunny wrote:
> > >
> > > Was relieved, also, that the script's "joke" of focusing on the little
> > > girl Pippa's face, tricking the audience into thinking that HER face
> > > was covered in blood just didn't make the transition to film. The
> > > little girl honestly looked as if she had nothing but strawberry jam
> > > smeared around her mouth.
> >
> > In my opinion, they didn't even do that part well... I read the
> > screenplay previous to viewing (which was a mistake) so, I knew it was
> > supposed to be jam, but my wife who hadn't read it had to ask me what it
> > was. They didn't show her trying to eat her sandwich despite being
> > stuck like in the screenplay. In fact you had to look REAL close and at
> > the right time to see the remains of the sandwich in her hand.
>
> Right. According to the screenplay, the very first shot of Pippa was
> supposed to be a closeup of her face, which pulls back to reveal that
> the "blood" is just jam from a sandwich in her hand. But in the film, the
> first shot was an establishing wide shot of Pippa's situation, followed
> by closeups that didn't really show her as being very panicked. The
> first scene that shows the jam, it looks like jam...only in subsequent
> shots does it look darker and nastier...and it's already been
> established that the girl isn't bleeding to death...just stuck.
Well I'm surpising myself a little here... I didn't think I would be the
type to pick on a Stephen King-based production, but I'm having a little
fun here not taking it so seriously. So I'll just continue by pointing
out that also in this scene there were continuity problems. From one
camera angle the jam was much thicker around her mouth than another.
>
> > I think it was definitely bad casting to put Tim Daly in there for Mike
> > (not that I have any better suggestions). I was discussing this point
> > with my wife in that I have relatives in Maine and have visited often.
> > The "live" characters you cite, I coincidentally think are close to what
> > Down Easters are like. The accents are great. And people who think
> > that those accents are a little too "fake" should visit some of those
> > outlying reaches of Maine... the accent can be quite thick.
>
> I think that people are bothered by the inane dialogue, and blame the
> accents, which are often the only interesting thing about the dialogue.
> Had the dialogue been compelling, I don't think folks would be complaining
> about the accents being "fake". Almost all the actors, whether using
> accents or not, seem to be hesitant and uncomfortable with their lines.
> It's this hesitancy that folks notice, and it's even more noticeable
> with an accent to draw the attention.
True... as I've said, I've become acoustomed to hearing the accent from
relatives, and heck, we have a similar (although not as thick) accent up
here in Vermont, so you would think that I wouldn't notice it so much in
the movie. But I do, probably for precisely the reason you state.
>
> > I snipped most of Rob's post to conserve precious server space. But
> > overall I have to agree with a lot of his points regarding the
> > miniseries. And I consider myself to be one of those King fans that
> > like everything he's written. I'll just add another thing that bothered
> > me about the movie so far. When Ferd is outside the firehouse (as his
> > buddy is redecorating the door of the pumper) he grabs his binocs and
> > watches big waves come in and take out the dock area. How the hell did
> > he see with no power and no moon to provide lighting?? It should have
> > been pretty damn black down there.
>
> Right. The scene where all the people run out to watch the lighthouse fall
> DOES contain dialogue that TELLS us that they can't see the lighthouse
> because of the "white out" but this is contradicted by the camera quite
> clearly showing us the lighthouse...
>
I guess maybe we were privvy to a special view of it from a different
angle than the people standing around, because I do remember the dialoge
kind of (but problematically, not difinitively) mentioning that all they
could see was the light itself, as it revolved into view. Oh... and
let's get nit-picky here. The production designer (or whoever is
responsible for the accuracy of the props) apparently doesn't know how a
lighthouse works. In the scene where there is a close-up of the light
going around (I think Linoge may have been in the foreground, I can't
remember) they show the beam travelling it's path but the lens is not
moving! In this type of light house, there is a single strong source of
light in the middle of the tower. The Fresnel (fren-nel) lens is
designed with concentricities to focus the light into a narrow beam.
The lens assembly actually rotates around the stationary light in the
middle.
I guess we'll never know for sure whether he was writing down
intentionally or not. (I doubt like hell that he will make an
appearance in the newsgroup to defend his story which, faulted or not,
garnered great ratings against the X-files).
Steve Bergeron
>
> Steve Bergeron wrote in message <36CBC2...@nospam.ibm.com>...
>
> [re: Maine accents]
> >part.
>
> if it was due to his having gone off to college. Perhaps he
> purposely lost it? Maybe he was embarrassed to sound
> like a "hick" on campus? (Note: I'm not saying that I,
> personally, would apply this judgement: I'm trying to imagine
> what he would be thinking/experiencing.) It's not uncommon
> for students with "strong" accents to try to lose them, in order
> to fit in.
> What do you think?
>
> KAH
I honestly don't think that Tim Daly put that much thought into his
character, although in real life I'm sure some people will try to lose
an accent as you suppose. In the current TV Guide, he is quoted as
saying something to the effect that Colm Foere has got the good role--he
just sits there and is menacing--meanwhile he (Daly) is out in the snow
"acting his ass off". If that is Daly acting his ass off, then I don't
expect to see him in anymore projects. I'm surprised he was ever hired
again after 'Wings' finished.
stevenb
mst
What I meant by not natural was that they seemed forced and awkward...I know
there are some people up north who DO talk like that, but I'm sure they
don't hesitate and look embarrassed when they do. And the inconsistencies
are the worst...it's bad enough the sound is poor and muffled by the
wind-noise, when the accents fade in and out, it's enough to send you
screaming to NBC...by the way, it's almost 10PM here on the West
Coast...I've got a tough decision to make.
--
Teri
++++
"Well, since you got here by not thinking, it seems reasonable
to expect that, in order to get out, you must start thinking."
Tock the Watchdog
Steve Bergeron
>
> Steve Bergeron wrote in message <36CBC2...@nospam.ibm.com>...
> >Actually, (as I posted in another thread) the accents *are* natural.
>
> What I meant by not natural was that they seemed forced and awkward...I know
> there are some people up north who DO talk like that, but I'm sure they
> don't hesitate and look embarrassed when they do. And the inconsistencies
> are the worst...it's bad enough the sound is poor and muffled by the
> wind-noise, when the accents fade in and out, it's enough to send you
> screaming to NBC...by the way, it's almost 10PM here on the West
> Coast...I've got a tough decision to make.
>
> --
> Teri
Oh, sorry. I misread your original comment. I agree with you on the
forced nature of the accent on the part of some of the actors.
My last choice of network to host this event would have been ABC. Maybe
not particularly because of the network itself, but because of the
shit-ass affiliate we have up here. The station is so low-budget it's
not even funny. They can't even keep their talent on board for more
than a couple months at a stretch.
stevenb
PHyatt1962
did anyone see the other character when he was much younger in the movie,
"3 O'Clock High" about his fight with a bully?
PH
Web Master
: ***minor spoilers***
: Max Devore wrote:
Of course, that preacher WAS Linoge, as was the TV reporter who
featured in the townspeople's dreams, reporting on the disappearance
of everyone on the island.
--
Bev Vincent
Houston, TX
-- If you give me what I want, I'll go away.
Web Master
: Addressing people by both names... I'm not sure about that one. I have
: the feeling that it does occur, but possibly not as often as the
: miniseries would have you beleive. And it is probably more prevalent in
: those same areas where the Down East accent is thicker. I don't believe
: it stems from "being in trouble" or anything like that. But if I had to
: guess, I would say it is because in close knit communities such as on
: the island, you have large family groups that may have similar names.
: So maybe they have to address people by both names so as to
: differentiate one from another??? Just my two cents.
I'll bet it is just a regionalism that King is familiar with. Strange
things develop in small communities. Where I grew up, the older generations
had this very strange habit of referring to married women by their first name
and the first name of their husband. Therefore Betty Murchie, married to Dave
Murchie, was referred to as Mrs. Betty Dave, and Margaret Hamilton, married
to Bennie Hamilton, was called Margaret Bennie.
towil...@procyongroup.com
Interestingly, the interview piece I read with Feore (he is fairly big
> news in these parts because of his Stratford history) had him commenting
> that he saw the character, on one level, as a "messanger from God". I
> thought that fit rather well with the scene of Mike watching the
> hellfire and damnation preacher on TV in the first part.
>
> Stevie
>
Honey, if you think *that* was a hellfire and damnation preacher you have
obviously never seen a real one. Not many of the real fire eaters left,
though. Not sure I could name one. Falwell doesn't even come close--he's a
wimp.
TW
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Dean
>Mike seems to have like Linoge better than any of the townspeople.
>Whenever anyone asks about the murder they are rudely ignored or
>brushed aside...but whenever Mike talks to Linoge he calls him "sir".
>Also, Mike only gets pissed off at Linoge after Linoge picks up his
>kid...killing the old lady wasn't enough, I guess. Who cared
>about her? Who cares about all the people who cared about her and
>want to know what's going on? A lot of this may be due to bad acting,
>or coaching of the actors. The poor dialogue doesn't help, though.
You obviously don't have any family that are cops. It is a tendency to call
even the worst people sir as a kind of DISrespect.
When Peter Godsoe (the pot-dealer) hangs himself, Hatch, in the next
>room, hears him kick the stool away. People take a while to strangle
>to death! If he had cut him down in the next 3 or 4 minutes he
>could have saved him! But he just goes in and stares...(I missed
>the first few minutes of the second night, so this might have been
>explained...).
When someone is handed, they do not sufficate, their neck is broke and the
spine puts pressure on the lower portion of the medulla and the upper
portion of the spinal cord causing the lungs and heart to quit functioning.
Once he is off the chair...He's dead.
And as for the comment in the other post about him feeling "guilty" and this
causing him to kill himself, you missed the point. Perhaps you need to pay
attention to the fact that Linoge can control the weak minded.
>After Mike gets nicked by the bullet, which slams him against the bars, he
>yells at Jack "Keep a safe distance, didn't I tell you that?" Meanwhile,
>Mike had been right at the bars, staring at Linoge. And then when
>Linoge holds out his hand, Mike puts his hand inside the bars to take
>the bullet!
Duh! and everyone was telling him not too. But he is drawn to linoge like
the others.
>Just after Mike had set up the watch, he says to Linoge "We'll have that
>talk you wanted later, sir."
>While Linoge is casting spells to kill people Mike asks him politely
>"What are you doing, sir, do you mind telling me?" So polite to Linoge,
>so rude to everyone else. I guess both Mike and Linoge agree that the
>townspeople are dirt.
Again the police officer in him.
>
>Soon after Mike gets grazed by a bullet, and finds out that Linoge can
>catch bullets with his bare hands...
He doesn't know that...for all he knew Linoge picked it off the ground.
>
>When everyone has the dream about a newscaster who talks about the
>mysterious island, and this dream includes spooky scenes of people
>walking into the water like lemmings, how come only Mike had the
>dream that explained that the people fell into the ocean? They were
>all having the same dream, right? So they all should have had the
>dream about falling into the ocean! But when they start sharing
>their dream, Mike is the only one with the answer. (this is
>another example of hellish repetition...we get to see the dream,
>and then wait for boring old Mike to repeat what we just saw.)
Perhaps Linoge wants Mike to know just a little more than everyone
else...after all he is their "leader" and the father of the boy Linoge wants
as his own.
Dean
J.
Would reading yeah be less annoying? Why? BTW I thought the actors accents
were pitiful.
J.
*****************************************************
"Do not wubba me or I will wubba you" -- Grover
"So now in my own castle I can enjoy
This wonderful dance that I learned as a boy
I see just how wise was my whole family
They taught me to count and so now look at me
I’m counting and dancing and I swear that it’s true
If you do the same you will be happy too" -- The Count
Harry B Kalb wrote in message <7afkqf$mui$2...@news.nyu.edu>...
Do you (or anybody) happen to know whether they really pronunce
"yeah" as "ayuh" so profoundly. I get kind of sick of reading it
every single time someone says "yeah".
Also...do they really refer to each other by first and last
name so often when speaking to the person?? ("Alton Hatcher",
"Billy Soames", "Peter Godsoe"...)
HBK
Jeff & Traci De
> > As for addresssing people by they're first and last names..... I think
> > that is just done for dramatic effect. (admittedly, the drama needs a little
> > work here..the acting in this miniseries ain't the greatest) But, I think it's
> > supposed to be like, when your mom calls you by your *FULL* name...you know
> > you're in trouble..... That's my take on it anyway.....
>
> I've never really noticed if there are Mainiacs on this newsgroup that
> can offer the difinitive answer for you, but as I've qualified myself in
> other threads, most of my relatives live in Maine and I've visited
> often. The "ayuh's" are genuine, but as with any dialect, they are more
> prevalent where the accent is thicker. "Ayuh" is also heard in New
> Hampshire and Vermont (where I live). But as with the case of Maine,
> it's heard more in the regions where the accent is thicker.
>
> Addressing people by both names... I'm not sure about that one. I have
> the feeling that it does occur, but possibly not as often as the
> miniseries would have you beleive. And it is probably more prevalent in
> those same areas where the Down East accent is thicker. I don't believe
> it stems from "being in trouble" or anything like that. But if I had to
> guess, I would say it is because in close knit communities such as on
> the island, you have large family groups that may have similar names.
> So maybe they have to address people by both names so as to
> differentiate one from another??? Just my two cents.
>
> stevenb
I don't know, but my Grandmother still does it. In Southern Utah. And her
cousin Melba is "my cousin Melba" every darn time.
Traci
--
From who I was to who I'll be
His love and grace has delivered me
chris
what he was in. As for the accents. I live outside of Boston, and one of
the Boston TV stations talked to some people from the island and the townies
were pretty mad. They said that the accent was all wrong. Could have
fooled me but....
PHyatt1962 wrote in message <19990219091103...@ng149.aol.com>...
stevie
> stevie <mill...@rogerswave.com> wrote:
> > ***minor spoilers***
>Interestingly, the interview piece I read with Feore (he is fairly big
>news in these parts because of his Stratford history) had him commenting
>that he saw the character, on one level, as a "messanger from God". I
>thought that fit rather well with the scene of Mike watching the
>hellfire and damnation preacher on TV in the first part.
>Honey,if you think *that* was a hellfire and damnation preacher you have
>obviously never seen a real one. Not many of the real fire eaters left,
>though.Not sure I could name one.Falwell doesn't even come close--he's a
>wimp.
Please don't call me honey. As for Falwell ... he's just a lunatic. cf
the great Tinkey Winkey debate. If the world is fortunate the HF&D
preachers are a subspecies nearing extinction.
Stevie
stevie
>
> :>It is easy for us to define Linoge as evil based on his actions, but
> :>I think that he views himself as amoral or ultramoral. Beyond or
> :>without morality. He is what he is, a dispenser of retribution. The
> :>piper who must be paid.
>
> : news in these parts because of his Stratford history) had him commenting
> : that he saw the character, on one level, as a "messanger from God". I
> : thought that fit rather well with the scene of Mike watching the
> : hellfire and damnation preacher on TV in the first part.
>
> featured in the townspeople's dreams, reporting on the disappearance
> of everyone on the island.
Sure, but nothing that preacher was ranting on about was out of
character at all with any of a number of TV preachers of that ilk. I
think there is a stream of Christianity which sees God in exactly the
way he would need to be seen for Linoge to be his messanger.
I thought the view of God in Storm was very much in keeping with the
view of God King puts across in both The Stand and Desperation, and I
thought that Mike's dissertation on Job was quite apt. "He just did
something to piss God off".
Stevie
Laurie & Co.
>
> towil...@procyongroup.com wrote:
>
> > stevie <mill...@rogerswave.com> wrote:
> > > ***minor spoilers***
>
> >news in these parts because of his Stratford history) had him commenting
> >that he saw the character, on one level, as a "messanger from God". I
> >thought that fit rather well with the scene of Mike watching the
> >hellfire and damnation preacher on TV in the first part.
>
> >obviously never seen a real one. Not many of the real fire eaters left,
> >though.Not sure I could name one.Falwell doesn't even come close--he's a
> >wimp.
>
> Please don't call me honey. As for Falwell ... he's just a lunatic. cf
> the great Tinkey Winkey debate. If the world is fortunate the HF&D
> preachers are a subspecies nearing extinction.
>
> Stevie
Could: Hell *is* Repetition refer to King's repetitve useage of
the disappearing groups/towns theme,
It, TommyKnockers,The Stand,etc.etc
Steve Bergeron
>
> I saw that movie. I've been wracking my brain all week trying to figure out
> what he was in. As for the accents. I live outside of Boston, and one of
> the Boston TV stations talked to some people from the island and the townies
> were pretty mad. They said that the accent was all wrong. Could have
> fooled me but....
>
Well, maybe they don't THINK they sound like that. I don't think I have
a Vermont accent, but I've had people identify me as Vermonter when
travelling. Maybe they were thinking about the one lady who was the
single mother and wore her husband's wedding band on her thumb. Her
accent sounded more like she had a speech impediment or something (no
offence intended to those who do).
stevenb
Steve Bergeron
>
> Steve Bergeron <berg...@nospam.ibm.com> wrote:
>
> : Addressing people by both names... I'm not sure about that one. I have
> : the feeling that it does occur, but possibly not as often as the
> : miniseries would have you beleive. And it is probably more prevalent in
> : those same areas where the Down East accent is thicker. I don't believe
> : it stems from "being in trouble" or anything like that. But if I had to
> : guess, I would say it is because in close knit communities such as on
> : the island, you have large family groups that may have similar names.
> : So maybe they have to address people by both names so as to
> : differentiate one from another??? Just my two cents.
>
> things develop in small communities. Where I grew up, the older generations
> had this very strange habit of referring to married women by their first name
> and the first name of their husband. Therefore Betty Murchie, married to Dave
> Murchie, was referred to as Mrs. Betty Dave, and Margaret Hamilton, married
> to Bennie Hamilton, was called Margaret Bennie.
>
> --
> Bev Vincent
> Houston, TX
That's an interesting one, Bev. I've never heard of that! After I made
the original observation last night, I watched part 3 today. And I know
why everyone was calling everyone else by their full name: there were so
many speaking parts (68 according to the TV Guide) that they HAD to to
keep us straight!
[Huh?? Who the hell was that? Jack Who? Carver? Oh, I thought that
was Ferd! Isn't he the pot dealer? Oh that's Peter. Shit, now I'm all
confused.]
stevenb
Wag
Steve Bergeron wrote in message <36CE29...@yahoo.com>...
People identified you as being from Vermont? This strikes me as
very strange, since in all my travels and all the opportunities I've had
to meet people from all over, I've never run across anything that would
identify anyone as being from Vermont. Maybe a regional accent,
but that would pin you down to, at least, 5 or 6 northeastern states.
Come to think of it, I can't even come up with a single thing that makes
Vermont stand out in my mind.... maybe the "Maple Syrup State" or
something?
Your state needs to start a civil war or something... until then, soak
up the anonymity.
Wag
Jeff & Traci De
It didn't work. I was confused as all get out. Fortunately, I'm not one who
lets a little confusion stop her from enjoying a story. Must be all my
experience with soap operas. (No wait, who's she sleeping with?)
Alice
>While we're on the subject of accents, I seem to remember learning in
American
> history class (long time ago, so I could be wrong) that several areas on
the
>VA/NC coast have populations that speak with a distinctive Old English
accent.
Well I'm from the NC coast and I've never seen or well
heard that to be true. Yes, I haven't been to *all* of the
islands off the coast but I don't believe this to be true.
Just ask anyone that's ever spoken to me - I don't have
anything close to an Old English accent <g>. Very
Southern;-).
~Alice~
to email change mypass to ipass
Steve Bergeron
Anonimity?? How about being home to (besides maple syrup):
The Green Mountian National Forest
Several excellent ski areas--Stowe, Sugarbush, Killington
Burton Snowboards
Ben & Jerry's
Phish
Champ, the Lake Champlain Monster
The University of Vemont--consistently ranked as a top party school
Bob Keeshan (aka Captain Kangaroo)
Michael J. Fox
Bernie Sanders
and last but not least, Dom Deluise
Were particularly proud of that last one :-)
stevenb
Brykins
>Just ask anyone that's ever spoken to me - I don't
>have anything close to an Old English accent <g>.
>Very Southern;-).
And no-one sounds nicer.......
--
Brykins aka Bryan Anderson
Email bry...@bigfoot.com
Web www.bigfoot.com/~brykins
~In my mind I'm going to Carolina.....~
James Taylor
Alice
>>"Alice" wrote:
>>Just ask anyone that's ever spoken to me - I don't have
>>anything close to an Old English accent <g>. Very
>>Southern;-).
>Very true, A-lees, very true <g>
;-Ş
Yes, I've finally come to terms with my accent. Spent too
many years losing it just to have it over take me again...
So yes Andy, I speak the truth as you well know <bg>
Alice
>Alice wrote:
>>Just ask anyone that's ever spoken to me - I don't
>>have anything close to an Old English accent <g>.
>>Very Southern;-).
>And no-one sounds nicer.......
Yes but then you're - well you're a sweetie! <vbg>
~Alice~
"You're a good man. You are. You just need someone to
remind you once in a while. Everybody does. Otherwise
we slip back into the mud, you know?" ---------- Imajica
Wag
Steve Bergeron wrote in message <36CF7B...@yahoo.com>...
Bob Keeshan? Okay, I apologize and stand corrected. ;-)
Wag
Ryan Robbins
refers to Bangor as "Bang-ger" and, to add insult to injury, Machias is
misspelled in the epilogue. How did King let that get through?
Kim Hammers
Steve Bergeron wrote in message <36CF7B...@yahoo.com>...
>Anonimity?? How about being home to (besides maple syrup):
> The Green Mountian National Forest
> Several excellent ski areas--Stowe, Sugarbush, Killington
> Burton Snowboards
> Ben & Jerry's
> Phish
> Champ, the Lake Champlain Monster
> The University of Vemont--consistently ranked as a top party school
> Bob Keeshan (aka Captain Kangaroo)
> Michael J. Fox
> Bernie Sanders
> and last but not least, Dom Deluise
>
>Were particularly proud of that last one :-)
>
>stevenb
Well, being a Vermonter myself, I have to weigh in here....
Von Trapp family Lodge (the original family from the Sound of Music)
Christopher Reeve and Charles Bronson also have homes there.....
as well as Alexander (Unspellable last name)...the Russian dissident who
wrote the
Gualag Archipelago.
Rossignol Skis
The Green Mountain Boys
Ethan Allen
TWO Presidents - Calvin Coolidge and Chester A. Arthur
Emily's Bridge (Haunted)
Montpelier (the capitol of Vermont) is the only capitol in the United States
without a
McDonald's. (Just to illustrate the discerning taste of Vermonters.)
Surely you have heard of the Vermont Teddy Bear company?
Steve Bergeron
Well, I didn't say my list was all-inclusive! ;-)
I forgot about the Von Trapps. I didn't know Christopher Reeve and
Bronson lived here... that's kinda cool. And the Russian guy (who's
name I can't spell either) has gone back to live in Russia.
stevenb