Eyes of the Dragon and Dark Tower.. (Small EOTD spoiler)
Michael
of the Dragon they both leave after Flagg and somewhere in the Dark Tower
series when Roland was explaining to Eddie or Susan about his childhood and
the dark tower he mentioned something about Flagg and Dennis and Thomas
following behind..
So it would seem the events of the Eyes of the Dragon took place when
Roland was a kid. Is it possible these Dennis and Thomas characters might
meat up with Roland somehow? (after all, they are on a quest to find flagg
as well) (oh yah i looked in book 2 & 3 but i can't find the actual quote
and page number, anyone have it?)
Michael
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Foreverlad
Whats the deal with these Dennis and Thomas guys? At the end of The Eyes
of the Dragon they both leave after Flagg and somewhere in the Dark Tower
series when Roland was explaining to Eddie or Susan about his childhood and
the dark tower he mentioned something about Flagg and Dennis and Thomas
following behind..
So it would seem the events of the Eyes of the Dragon took place when
Roland was a kid. Is it possible these Dennis and Thomas characters might
meat up with Roland somehow? (after all, they are on a quest to find flagg
as well) (oh yah i looked in book 2 & 3 but i can't find the actual quote
and page number, anyone have it?)
Michael<<
It's been close to 6 years since I read EOTD, so my thoughts and references
may be sketchy. In The Stand, or one of the Dark Tower books, Flagg says
something about he had been to a place called England, and I assumed this was a
reference to EOTD. When you think about confirmed Flagg sightings, you have
Eyes, The Stand, and the Dark Tower Series. I interpret these as Past, Present
and Future, respectively. In Eyes, I don't remember references to old
technology, far from the desolation and degredation of the DT series. Also, if
this story took place in Roland's world, and was one of Roland's earliest
encounters with Flagg, then it would have to fall in to place before the world
moved on. I say this because the Dragon in EOTD appeared to be a full
mythologically rendered dragon, not a mutation, which falls into the
degradation category of the Dark Tower. What I fail to understand is that
there was a mention of Roland meeting up with the duo, wasn't there? If so,
then if the timeline I suggest is correct, then I can only assume a doorway
appeared somewhere, allowing a meeting of sorts spanning time (perhaps even
space) which hardly seems impossible, considering the circumstances and events
we've read about.
Oh well.
Mike
Michael
> mythologically rendered dragon, not a mutation, which falls into the
> degradation category of the Dark Tower. What I fail to understand is
that
> there was a mention of Roland meeting up with the duo, wasn't there? If
so,
> then if the timeline I suggest is correct, then I can only assume a
doorway
> appeared somewhere, allowing a meeting of sorts spanning time (perhaps
even
> space) which hardly seems impossible, considering the circumstances and
events
> we've read about.
>
Thats what I was thinking because they two books didn't seem like they
occured in the same time period yet Roland saw them.. So many questions, so
little anwsers, I love King's writing.. He could probably write a sequel to
Eyes of the Dragon about Dennis and Thomas' quest for Flagg and unknowingly
that quest would likely lead to the Dark Tower as well.
Foreverlad
>>
Thats what I was thinking because they two books didn't seem like they
occured in the same time period yet Roland saw them.. So many questions, so
little anwsers, I love King's writing.. He could probably write a sequel to
Eyes of the Dragon about Dennis and Thomas' quest for Flagg and unknowingly
that quest would likely lead to the Dark Tower as well.
<<
No doubt. Of course, didn't King himself say something about that. I think
it to the effect of: "I could say they all lived happily ever after, but no one
ever does" or something? And then saying they do meet up with Flagg, and it
might be a story to tell someday?
Ah, the joys of confusion.
Mike
Stephen J Erdman
conversation with Martin, he awoke after centuries had apparently gone
by. Roland went through boyhood just as the world (or at least Giliad)
started to move one, but his adventures leads him through a world which has
been moving on for time out of mind. The lifetimes of people in Roland's
wrold seem to be extended beyond our own anyway, as evidenced by the
community of old people the travelers encountered before Lud. Also, as
has been mentioned, time and space are both out of joint and run
strangely in Roland's world.
In terms of the connection between DT adn the Eyes of the Dragon, my read
is that as is hinted at in DT IV, there are innumerable worlds in our
universe that are linked in some unknowable fashion by the Tower. The
Stand occured in one of these worlds, which, while very close to ours, is
not quite the same. I would argue that the Eyes of the Dragon occured in
yet another world. An interesting thing about these different worlds is
that the Dark Man (Flagg) is shares many of the same qualities, but is
also wildly different in each of them. I think that there are multiple
instances of the creature named Flagg in the different worlds which take
on varied characteristics. Randall Flag in the Stand is certainly
different from Flagg in The Eyes of the Dragon, who is very like, but not
quite Mr. Leland Gaunt in Needful Things. However, all these worlds are
linked and combined by the Dark Tower, and I think that the Flag of the
DT series is a combination of all these other Dark Men, a ka-tet if you
will. He is a being who encompasses all their fates into a greater
whole. The only other real constant between these world is The White,
which opposes Flag. I don't know how exactlly to tie this in yet, but
hopefully further explanation of this will be in the next book. Anyway,
it's a theory.
Foreverlad
Hmm. . . I don't know. I like your theory about different Flaggs, but, I see
it as a growth thing. Randall is different in each story (I only accept RF
when he goes by a name RF. I wouldn't consider Leland to be Randall, etc.
Anyhow, The EOTD Randall would be a more inexperienced evil, where as the
Randall in the Stand has played with Technology, new religions, etc. The DT
Randall has been through all of this, and has for all intents and purposes gone
crazy.
Roland's aging I think was part of a plot by The man in Black. Roland aged
ten years while 100 went by in that world. I think he ages as any other man
does, otherwise 10 years wouldn't have thinned out his hair, etc. I can't
understand why SK would do that to him, except maybe to "cripple" him slightly
(and then the fingers too. . .sigh. . .) Time does pass differently in his
world, but I don't think it's a matter of moving faster or slower. i think it
just doesn't work at all <g>.
Mike
Jamie Madigan
> Roland's aging I think was part of a plot by The man in Black. Roland aged
>ten years while 100 went by in that world. I think he ages as any other man
>does, otherwise 10 years wouldn't have thinned out his hair, etc. I can't
>understand why SK would do that to him, except maybe to "cripple" him slightly
>(and then the fingers too. . .sigh. . .) Time does pass differently in his
>world, but I don't think it's a matter of moving faster or slower. i think it
>just doesn't work at all <g>.
>
> Mike
I just finished reading Insomia the other week (great book!) and picked up on
something that explains (or at least goes along with) Roladnd's aging. As
evidenced in Insomnia, time passes more quickly "when you're up". That is,
when you're up at a higher level of existence/The Tower, time on the lower
levels (i.e., our "normal" reality) goes by really fast. I beleive Walter
took Roland "up" in much the same way Ralph and Lois went "up" in Insomnia,
and then left him there, unconscious, for 10 years. Thus, while 10 years
passed in Roland's level of existence, 100 years went by on the ground floor
level. The only inconsistency is that there was no mention in The Gunslinger
of auras (something King probably thought up especially for Insomnia).
As for why King decided to age and later maim Roland, all I can say is that it
makes him a weaker and more interesting character. Roland was simply too much
of a badass. If he were going to grow and if King were going to explore any
depth in his character, he had to be more human and mortal. It's kind of the
same reason why I never found Superman to be too interesting as a character.
Almost nothing hurts him. Gee. That's not very exciting.
Jamie
s98...@admiral.umsl.ede
Foreverlad
>>I just finished reading Insomia the other week (great book!) and picked up
on
something that explains (or at least goes along with) Roladnd's aging. As
evidenced in Insomnia, time passes more quickly "when you're up". That is,
when you're up at a higher level of existence/The Tower, time on the lower
levels (i.e., our "normal" reality) goes by really fast. I beleive Walter
took Roland "up" in much the same way Ralph and Lois went "up" in Insomnia,
and then left him there, unconscious, for 10 years. Thus, while 10 years
passed in Roland's level of existence, 100 years went by on the ground floor
level. The only inconsistency is that there was no mention in The Gunslinger
of auras (something King probably thought up especially for Insomnia).
As for why King decided to age and later maim Roland, all I can say is that it
makes him a weaker and more interesting character. Roland was simply too much
of a badass. If he were going to grow and if King were going to explore any
depth in his character, he had to be more human and mortal. It's kind of the
same reason why I never found Superman to be too interesting as a character.
Almost nothing hurts him. Gee. That's not very exciting.
Jamie
s98...@admiral.umsl.ede
<<
I read Insomnia once, and though it was a decent story, I focused more on the
similar aspects between it and the Celestine Prophecy (no joke, all those
freaking auras. . .) but you're right. That was a great explination. I agree.
In many respects, Roland was too. . .powerful. My only unhapiness stems from
the lack of growth for Roland. Don't get me wrong, Eddie, Susanna, Jake and
even the bumbler have turned Roland into a more human character than I think
he's been since being a child, but it seems his growth as a gunslinger has come
to an end. Heck, on the first page of the Dark Tower Roland's thirst is a
product of his lack of ascension (the fifth level of something or other. . .I
can't remember what). Of course, maybe the greatest evolution of the character
will be his whole lack of strick gunslingerness as they progress towards the
tower. Guess we'll only have to wait another 5 years before we start finding
out. <g>
Mike
Michael
> on varied characteristics. Randall Flag in the Stand is certainly
> different from Flagg in The Eyes of the Dragon, who is very like, but not
> quite Mr. Leland Gaunt in Needful Things. However, all these worlds are
> linked and combined by the Dark Tower, and I think that the Flag of the
> DT series is a combination of all these other Dark Men, a ka-tet if you
> will. He is a being who encompasses all their fates into a greater
> whole. The only other real constant between these world is The White,
> which opposes Flag. I don't know how exactlly to tie this in yet, but
> hopefully further explanation of this will be in the next book. Anyway,
True but we have to remember Flagg is ageless as we find out in Eyes of the
Dragon he had done the same thing to another kingdom 400 years earlier..
Maybe he just changes with the times.. Perhaps EOTD and Dark Tower are not
the same world but then that would have to mean Dennis & Thomas travelled
to a different world somehow like Roland did with the doors.. Which I think
is unlikely.. But who knows :)
Stephen J Erdman
I'm not saying that the Flag's of the different world's are regular men.
They're all the evil lunatic imp we've come to know and love. However, I
think they're specific to the world they're in. The Flag of the Dark
Tower, however, is a combination of all these other Flag's, who acts as a
nexus between them. His is the force that allows RF to escape(sort of)
at the end of The Stand. As long as he is binding the others together,
they have their power. I think the binding is getting tighter as the
final confraontation gets nearer. I also don't think the Flag that
Roland and company meet in in DTIV is THE Flag, but only Roland's world's
version. That's why he could be killed with the bullets brought over
from Eddie's world. I have no facts to back this up, just some half
formed suspicions.
Michael (Mik...@icenter.net) wrote:
: > on varied characteristics. Randall Flag in the Stand is certainly