Carrie: when/where/why was it banned?
Benjamin Black
Greets:
Let me begin by saying I am a huge fan of Stephen King, but by no means
the largest. I've read a large number of his books, and never
considered any of them to be offensive or "indecent." So when I
discovered that "Carrie" was banned, it struck me as odd. Since this
week is banned book week, my english professor instructed each of us to
bring in a book that was banned. I asked a librarian if she knew of any
books that were banned, and she wanted to know if I had any particular
author in mind. So, being that I'm a fan of his, I mentioned Stephen
King, and she told me that yes, "Carrie" was banned, although she
couldn't tell me when, where, or why it was banned, except that why
might be because such a large number of teenagers die at the end.
So, my question to you Stephen King fanatics out there: when was Carrie
banned? Where was it banned? And most importantly, why was it banned?
Please please PLEASE respond via e-mail! I do not read this newsgroup
due to time restraints, so I will not get any replies! My e-mail
address is:
Thanks in advance!
Benjamin Black
web-server-account
Benjamin Black (cali...@cloud9.net) wrote:
: Let me begin by saying I am a huge fan of Stephen King, but by no means
: the largest. I've read a large number of his books, and never
: considered any of them to be offensive or "indecent." So when I
: discovered that "Carrie" was banned, it struck me as odd. Since this
: week is banned book week, my english professor instructed each of us to
: bring in a book that was banned. I asked a librarian if she knew of any
: books that were banned, and she wanted to know if I had any particular
: author in mind. So, being that I'm a fan of his, I mentioned Stephen
: King, and she told me that yes, "Carrie" was banned, although she
: couldn't tell me when, where, or why it was banned, except that why
: might be because such a large number of teenagers die at the end.
: So, my question to you Stephen King fanatics out there: when was Carrie
: banned? Where was it banned? And most importantly, why was it banned?
Many of King's books have been banned in the past, mostly by
school libraries. Probably not hard to understand why. Books
like Cujo have some explicit and disturbing sexual references
(the masturbating stalker) and some intense violence performed
upon children.
Here are a couple of cases where Carrie was challenged:
Challenged, along with eight other Stephen King novels in Bismark, N.Dak.
(1994) by a local minister and a school board member, because of "age
appropriateness." Challenged by a parent, and currently under review,
at the Boyertown, Pa. Junior High East library (1994). The parent
"objected to the book's language, its violence, and its sexual
descriptions, as well as what she described as a 'Satanic killing'
sequence."
"Carrie" may also have been banned because of its religious overtones.
Organized religion, as personifed by Carrie's mother, takes a real
bashing and parental groups may have decided that children are not
able to handle this maturely.
In the 1990's, Christine (#19) and Cujo (#35) were the only two
King books on the top fifty list of the most frequently banned
books in this decade. See http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~spok/most-banned.html
Hope this is of some help to you.
--
Bev Vincent
Houston, TX
Bob
Benjamin Black wrote:
> So, my question to you Stephen King fanatics out there: when was Carrie
> banned? Where was it banned? And most importantly, why was it banned?
>
> Benjamin Black
Check out George Beahm's "Stephen King Companion." It's got a pretty good
chapter on the banning of King's books, and I think it's in both the
original and updated versions of the book. You can find it at most any
bookstore, or buy it directly from Beahm (geob...@aol.com).
Bob
MikeTEACHR
As for the banning of Carrie:
I do know, as a teacher, that the book has been banned in quite a few
school libraries. The most common reason I have heard, is that some
thought the shower/menstruation scene was "obscene".
Mike Black miket...@aol.com
Carol Clements
On 3 Oct 1996 16:20:14 GMT, Scribbler <scri...@istar.ca> wrote:
> But menstruation? This is why women are Angry, folks =)
>
....which brings to mind that old joke "Why do women have PMS?"
Because they DO!!!!!
<great big evil grin>
Carol.
______________________________________________________________
Ese humano agente
paesis wayan mones lente
censum bacchus unas duo
cancer thisbe sed orpheu?
Scribbler
Just goes to show how yet "patriarchal" this society of ours is.
Menstruation "obscene"? Even in context of the shower scene, I don't see
it. It must be a generational thing, and definitely a Judeo-Xian textual
remnant. This is why Rush Limbaugh and Bill Bennett oughtta be
"banned", folks. The only thing in Carrie I can see being "banned"
(although it's all a lot of nonsense), is the crucifixion scene of her
mother--I could see that irritating some of the "pious", it's of the same
envelop-pushing nature as the painting in My Name is Asher Lev (also
banned for a time, in Xian school libraries, I believe). But
menstruation? This is why women are Angry, folks =)
Scribbler
KingKassel
The shower menstruation was much more tolerable in Carrie than in the
Tommyknockers which was a grossout that caused me to drop King as a
favorite writer for ten years or so.
KingKassel
Scribbler, you clearly are lost or were writing without thinking. Limbaugh
and company, who quite often are RIGHT about what they say, have little do
with what offends one or all of us. You should admit that some things you
do not like yourself, are approved by or acceptable to the masses.
Randy Flood
HYPOCRITE!!! Do you read your own posts? I may think that Gerald's Game
wasn't a very good book but I can totally respect the fact that for many
people it is their favorite Stephen King book. I also think Rush
Limbaugh is a big fact jerk, but that doesn't mean there aren't people
out there who think he is right on about *everything*
Maybe I do speak for the masses, maybe I don't, but I think you are the
one who is lost.
Randy
Looking for a Matthew Hunt post, cuz right now I am feeling highly
mellowly challenged.
M. Katie Hohenstein
>>Maybe I do speak for the masses, maybe I don't, but I think you are the
one who is lost.<<
I have talked to everyone I know who reads King and all of us stalled
about a quarter way through G.G. It has to be the first time I was
disappointed in a King novel.
Katie
Carol Clements
I find it intriguing that *menstruation* grossed you out sufficiently
to drop King, when there are so many other, far more worthy gross
-outs you could have chosen as the catalyst for your decision.
Anyone who can bleed for a week and not *die* deserves *respect*.
Carol Clements
On 8 Oct 96 13:06:37 GMT, rcb...@urc.tue.nl (Angelo Wentzler) wrote:
>I'm the exception! I'm the exception! (jumps up and down with hand in the
>air)
>I actually read it in one go. This never happened to me before or since; I
>came close with Desperation though.
Angelo, careful, we're starting to agree on things. This is scary.
You mean you *liked* Gerald's Game? You didn't think it was
boring/gross/tedious/female psyche crap or whatever?
There's hope... : D
Carol Clements
On 8 Oct 96 13:01:44 GMT, rcb...@urc.tue.nl (Angelo Wentzler) wrote:
>Ah, that's why I like you so much. You always put things in fresh
>perspective!
<curtsies politely>
Well thank you kind sir!
>I think the reason it grosses out at least males so much (forgive me if I'm
>generalizing, bash me all you want, net-males!) is that, well, it's about
>the biggest turn-off you can imagine. I can't for the life of me imagine
>myself having sex with a woman during her period (which is in some areas at
>least an accepted method of contraception) and maybe I'm sick or something,
>but I do think about things like that when people explicitly describe
>menstruation. It's what you add that makes it worse, right?
>
Brings to mind that old chestnut about men thinking about sex every 15
seconds or so... : )
Well, I'll spare you the stories I've been told about this kind of
thing Angelo - I'm sure your imagination could supply you with a few
images anyway.
Seriously, I can sort of understand the male perspective, but it's the
*complaining* I find the hardest to cope with. Women have been doing
this unwillingly for *centuries*. What good does it do to try to hide
it, talk it down, generally make it a thing of mystery and
superstition? There are some tribes *still* in Africa, where
menstruating women are treated like lepers. I don't know, it just
really pisses me off. After all, *we're* the ones with the pain and
the general inconvenience. *We're* the ones with the right to
complain about it!
That's one of the many reasons why I like King. In his books people
piss, fart, fuck, bleed, swear, puke and have the trots - they do what
*we* do. They're real.
Good enough for me.
>Chuckie chuckie chuckieeeeee!
...I forgot what letter of the alphabet we got to.....um....I'll go
backwards just to be safe...and appropriate...
Blobbie blobbie blobbieeeeeeee
Carol.
PS Pardon my language, I was semi-quoting.
Carol Clements
On Tue, 8 Oct 1996 20:01:03 GMT, jwer...@netcom.com (J. Wermont)
wrote:
> > Anyone who can bleed for a week and not *die* deserves *respect*.
>
>Hee hee... Carol, that should be one of your sigs!
You could have something there Joyce. I could drag out the
circumcision one every time the old ex neglects his kids (about once a
week) and change it to this one once a month! Yes! Why not?
<trundling off to the sig files waving sanitary towels and tampons in
the air>
Carol.
Carol Clements
On Tue, 08 Oct 1996 21:16:38 -0400, Paul Howell
<pjho...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> Gerald's Game was okay, but the tie in with Dolores Claiborne got to be
>a bit much. Felt a bit like one novel split into two...
I'm probably being spectacularly wrong again, but I *think* that was
the original intention - one book. I liked the tie-in.
>I just read Desperation straight through, in one weekend, and I was
>struck by the HUGE number of revisted themes . . . the struggling
>writer (Salems Lot, The Shining), the kid in touch with a higher power
>(The Talisman, It), the evil desert (the Stand), the evil in the ground
>(Tommyknockers, It), on and on, ad nauseum...
>
>I kind of got the feeling I was on a Magical Mystery tour of his
>previous novels.
I felt like that the last time I saw Torvill and Dean go for the
Olympics. They should have stayed out of it. I think this Mystery
tour phenomenon comes of being a long-time reader of King's books.
>Don't think I didn't enjoy it. I really did. I just felt that I had
>read much of it before.
I know what you mean. I've been thinking similar thoughts, and it's
depressing me. I *love* my King books, but I wonder if I've read too
many, too often. I'm starting to *expect* certain things and nod my
head when they turn up just where they're supposed to. Worrying...
Carol Clements
On Tue, 08 Oct 1996 09:15:55 -0700, Sarah Ross <in5...@wlv.ac.uk>
wrote:
>Is there anyone else out here who snarled at this as much as I
>did? Not only at the idea of censorship, but at the basis for
>it in this case.
Yup. Said my piece too.
>I mean what was it that was so obscene about that scene?
Naked teenage girls? Blood? Nah....
>The idea that nice pink fluffy girls could be that cruel?
>(They can!)
I know!
>Or was it <gasp> the mention of the fact that women have
>periods?
They *DO*?? What about commas? : )
>(Sorry should I say we have a friend come to town each
>month) Personally I'm all for debunking the mystery
>surrounding women, menstruation, and everything! :D
<gasp> Sarah! Cardinal visitation if you please! Shock, horror!!!
>And as for the guys who banned it, well I wish I could send
>'em a copy of Dani's "Home improvments" .jpg :D
My mind is doing overtime on this one. I dread to *think* what that's
about. No, don't tell Dani to send it to me....my imagination is bad
enough.
>(who doesn't know whether to bann her womb or stick it on a
>bill-board)
Could we throw darts at it? Eeuw, sorry, I just grossed *myself* out!
<barf>
Carol.
An old friend will help you move, a good friend will help
you move a body.
Some Newspaper Somewhere
Scribbler
KingKassel wrote:
>
> Scribbler, you clearly are lost or were writing without thinking. Limbaugh
> and company, who quite often are RIGHT about what they say, have little do
> with what offends one or all of us. You should admit that some things you
> do not like yourself, are approved by or acceptable to the masses.
LOL LOL LOL!!!!! Funny man. That's an odd way of looking at things. My
mention of Limbaugh and Bennett was due exactly to what you are
saying--RL and BB are "moral" and social, cultural *censors*. Gays
should not marry, women should stay at home, Carrie is offensive because
it details a *female* bodily function not shared by men. RL and BB are
intolerable, by me--and PROUDLY--because *they* are intolerant racist
sexist heterosexist homophobic and moral hypocrites. They despise
anything that is not just like them. If you're a rightist, forget it,
we'll have to agree to disagree. We obviously aren't gonna change each
other's minds. I have nothing against a white straight Christian male,
so long as he has nothing against another who doesn't fit his own group.
Tolerance, perhaps? It's a good thing--really it is.
Never *lost* when it comes to my sentiments about the virtue of
egalitarianism,
Scribbler
Bob
KingKassel wrote:
>
> Scribbler, you clearly are lost or were writing without thinking. Limbaugh
> and company, who quite often are RIGHT about what they say, have little do
> with what offends one or all of us. You should admit that some things you
> do not like yourself, are approved by or acceptable to the masses.
He/She ALSO wrote (in a Tommyknockers thread):
>
> I regret to inform you that even the book, Tommyknockers, SUCKED. I
> dropped King as a favorite author for years after that turkey.
>
> Quality storytellers don't need to have a main character menstruate every
> fifteen pages just cause she is digging up a spaceship. What garbage.
>
> I mean, I never have even finished the book. What a lousy excuse for a
> story.
>
> Green Mile, however, has finally vindicated him in my book and I now
> happily plan to try out Desperation.
Interesting opposing points of view...
Bob
Carol Clements
On Wed, 09 Oct 1996 16:37:14 -0700, "Jon R." <Jon.R...@nor.uib.no>
wrote:
>Then you should not read Memnoch The Devil by Anne Rice, where Lestat
>the vampire has oral sex with a menstruating woman. It's her best book,
>though. Seriously, I see your point, but I don't really think it's
>fair (I'm sure you agree, but we can't control gut reactions, right?)
>being grossed out by something most women would want to be rid of if
>they could. It makes for some very entertaining flames once a month,
>though!
Jon, I have Memnoch sitting in my ever increasing "to-read" (or should
that be "to bleed?") pile. Got to read about half a dozen other books
first though...
Does this mean I have to start flaming and trying to be entertaining?
As if the cramps and headaches aren't bad enough! Can't I just be
mad? I'm good at mad. : )
SAY YES, OR I'LL HAVE YOUR NUTS FOR EARRINGS!!
(joking, honest!)
Sarah Ross
MikeTEACHR wrote:
>
> As for the banning of Carrie:
>
> I do know, as a teacher, that the book has been banned in quite a few
> school libraries. The most common reason I have heard, is that some
> thought the shower/menstruation scene was "obscene".
>
> Mike Black miket...@aol.com
Is there anyone else out here who snarled at this as much as I
did? Not only at the idea of censorship, but at the basis for
it in this case.
I mean what was it that was so obscene about that scene?
The idea that nice pink fluffy girls could be that cruel?
(They can!)
Or was it <gasp> the mention of the fact that women have
periods?
(Sorry should I say we have a friend come to town each
month) Personally I'm all for debunking the mystery
surrounding women, menstruation, and everything! :D
And as for the guys who banned it, well I wish I could send
'em a copy of Dani's "Home improvments" .jpg :D
Sarah
(who doesn't know whether to bann her womb or stick it on a
bill-board)
--
****************************************************************
Sarah Ross * Show me a womans who doesn't feel guilty
in5...@wlv.ac.uk * and I'll show you a man.
* Erica Jong
Angelo Wentzler
I'm the exception! I'm the exception! (jumps up and down with hand in the
air)
I actually read it in one go. This never happened to me before or since; I
came close with Desperation though.
Chuckie chuckie chuckieeeeee!
Angelo
Angelo Wentzler
ca...@clems.demon.co.uk (Carol Clements) writes:
(menstruation)
>Anyone who can bleed for a week and not *die* deserves *respect*.
>Carol.
Ah, that's why I like you so much. You always put things in fresh
perspective!
I think the reason it grosses out at least males so much (forgive me if I'm
generalizing, bash me all you want, net-males!) is that, well, it's about
the biggest turn-off you can imagine. I can't for the life of me imagine
myself having sex with a woman during her period (which is in some areas at
least an accepted method of contraception) and maybe I'm sick or something,
but I do think about things like that when people explicitly describe
menstruation. It's what you add that makes it worse, right?
Chuckie chuckie chuckieeeeee!
Angelo
Paul Howell
Carol Clements wrote:
>
> On 8 Oct 96 13:06:37 GMT, rcb...@urc.tue.nl (Angelo Wentzler) wrote:
>
> >I'm the exception! I'm the exception! (jumps up and down with hand in the
> >air)
> >I actually read it in one go. This never happened to me before or since; I
> >came close with Desperation though.
>
> You mean you *liked* Gerald's Game? You didn't think it was
> boring/gross/tedious/female psyche crap or whatever?
a bit much. Felt a bit like one novel split into two...
I just read Desperation straight through, in one weekend, and I was
struck by the HUGE number of revisted themes . . . the struggling
writer (Salems Lot, The Shining), the kid in touch with a higher power
(The Talisman, It), the evil desert (the Stand), the evil in the ground
(Tommyknockers, It), on and on, ad nauseum...
I kind of got the feeling I was on a Magical Mystery tour of his
previous novels.
Don't think I didn't enjoy it. I really did. I just felt that I had
Paul Howell
> LOL LOL LOL!!!!! Funny man. That's an odd way of looking at things. My
> mention of Limbaugh and Bennett was due exactly to what you are
> saying--RL and BB are "moral" and social, cultural *censors*. Gays
> should not marry, women should stay at home, Carrie is offensive because
> it details a *female* bodily function not shared by men. RL and BB are
> intolerable, by me--and PROUDLY--because *they* are intolerant racist
> sexist heterosexist homophobic and moral hypocrites. They despise
> anything that is not just like them. If you're a rightist, forget it,
> we'll have to agree to disagree. We obviously aren't gonna change each
> other's minds. I have nothing against a white straight Christian male,
> so long as he has nothing against another who doesn't fit his own group.
> Tolerance, perhaps? It's a good thing--really it is.
>
> Never *lost* when it comes to my sentiments about the virtue of
> egalitarianism,
> Scribbler
I'll bet you have neither read Bill Bennett's Book of Virtues nor
listened to Limbaugh's show. Too bad. You might be surprised to find
out that they are not homophobic, nor racist, nor sexist. I do not
consider myself a "rightest". I am a registered Democrat, I believe in
a women's right to choose, I am tolerent to a fault. However, I do
believe that a society without a moral center is doomed and I believe in
personal restraint and a personal sense of decency and would like more
people to believe likewise.
I found the scenes of menstration disturbing, as I am sure they were
intended to be. I wouldn't "ban" it, but I also wouldn't
want it to be read by pre-teens. We seem to be caught between the
extremes of banning anything offensive to anyone and banning nothing, no
matter how offensive it may be.
Not a problem we will settle here...
Paul
J. Wermont
Carol Clements writes:
> I find it intriguing that *menstruation* grossed you out sufficiently
> to drop King, when there are so many other, far more worthy gross
> -outs you could have chosen as the catalyst for your decision.
Really!! Usually when someone's bleeding, it's an indication that
something's wrong - sometimes *fatally* wrong! Lots of opportunities
for gross-outs there. Whereas menstruation is *supposed* to happen -
when it occurs that's an indication that everything's working just
fine. What's gross about that?
> Anyone who can bleed for a week and not *die* deserves *respect*.
Hee hee... Carol, that should be one of your sigs!
Joyce
jwer...@netcom.com
Randy Flood
Sarah Ross wrote:
>
> I mean what was it that was so obscene about that scene?
>
> The idea that nice pink fluffy girls could be that cruel?
> (They can!)
> Or was it <gasp> the mention of the fact that women have
> periods?
> (Sorry should I say we have a friend come to town each
> month) Personally I'm all for debunking the mystery
> surrounding women, menstruation, and everything! :D
>
> And as for the guys who banned it, well I wish I could send
> 'em a copy of Dani's "Home improvments" .jpg :D
>
> Sarah
>
> (who doesn't know whether to bann her womb or stick it on a
> bill-board)
>
> --
> ****************************************************************
> Sarah Ross * Show me a womans who doesn't feel guilty
> in5...@wlv.ac.uk * and I'll show you a man.
> * Erica Jong
Eeeuuuwwwwwww!! You mean that a friend coming to town each month is the
same as your p-p-p-p-p-p-p-(inhale) period? Yuck!!! Oh man, my
euphemistic view of the world has been shattered.
By all means, censor anything that be even moderately offensive to
anyone!! Stephen King, Dr. Suess, hell (oh wait censorship, heck) even
the dictionary.
Randy
Jonathan Rosenberg (rez)
Paul Howell <pjho...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
i've watched limbaugh's show, and i think he's a "intolerant racist
sexist heterosexist homophobe and moral hypocrite." but even worse,
he's a hatemonger. he makes a living on creating misery, lying, and
generally being loud and annoying. and he's not even funny.
if you find something offensive, turn your head. but don't stop me
from enjoying my rights. you may believe in a woman's right to choose.
how about the right to choose what one can read? or say? who are you
to make the guidelines of morality for me, or my family, or anyone
else?
-jonny
-----------------------------------------
jonathan rosenberg
rez...@village.ios.com
"Ewww... those aren't rice krispies...."
-some guy in Duluth
-----------------------------------------
MR. Maheri
Angelo Wentzler (rcb...@urc.tue.nl) wrote:
: I think the reason it grosses out at least males so much (forgive me if I'm
: generalizing, bash me all you want, net-males!) is that, well, it's about
: the biggest turn-off you can imagine. I can't for the life of me imagine
: myself having sex with a woman during her period (which is in some areas at
: least an accepted method of contraception) and maybe I'm sick or something,
: but I do think about things like that when people explicitly describe
: menstruation. It's what you add that makes it worse, right?
You are over-generalizing, Angelo, but we'll forgive you. Mensuration is
an integral part of being a woman of child-bearing age and if you don't
like that, it's sort of tough really. Having said that I'm glad it's not
me who suffers from cramps, has to keep near a toilet and gets all
emotional once a month.
Jared
--
Jared Head at the Department of Biochemistry, University of Bristol
We sense that life is a dark comedy and maybe we can live with that.
However because the whole thing is written for the entertainment of the
gods, too many of the jokes go right over our heads.
"Two Vanished Victims" - Martin Stillwater
Jon R.
>
>
> Ah, that's why I like you so much. You always put things in fresh
> perspective!
> generalizing, bash me all you want, net-males!) is that, well, it's about
> the biggest turn-off you can imagine. I can't for the life of me imagine
> myself having sex with a woman during her period (which is in some areas at
> least an accepted method of contraception) and maybe I'm sick or something,
> but I do think about things like that when people explicitly describe
Then you should not read Memnoch The Devil by Anne Rice, where Lestat
the vampire has oral sex with a menstruating woman. It's her best book,
though. Seriously, I see your point, but I don't really think it's
fair (I'm sure you agree, but we can't control gut reactions, right?)
being grossed out by something most women would want to be rid of if
they could. It makes for some very entertaining flames once a month,
though!
Jon R.
Paul J. Howell
>
> i've watched limbaugh's show, and i think he's a "intolerant
name one instance (in context please)
> racist
name one instance (in context please)
> sexist
name one instance (in context please)
> heterosexist homophobe
name one instance (in context please)
> and moral hypocrite.
name one instance (in context please)
> but even worse, he's a hatemonger.
name one instance (in context please)
> he makes a living on creating misery,
name one instance (in context please)
> lying,
name one instance, intentionally (in context please)
> generally being loud and annoying.
I agree
> and he's not even funny.
Sometimes he is, sometimes he isn't.
>
> if you find something offensive, turn your head.
I do
> but don't stop me from enjoying my rights.
I wouldn't dream of it
> you may believe in a woman's right to choose.
> how about the right to choose what one can read? or say? who are you
> to make the guidelines of morality for me, or my family, or anyone
> else?
Wow, I haven't read a statement so spectacularly wrong since college.
I think we're talking about where lines are drawn. I never claimed to be
a moral arbitrator, but society does have specific rules of conduct
called laws. There are things that you can't read (I immediately think
of documents relating to national security, but there are others), there
are things you cannot say (laws against slander, libel, and inciting a
riot, etc.). As far as general morality, there are hundreds of laws
regarding sexual practices, property rights, etc., that limit your
actions and keep you from doing anything you want.
I have never heard either Mr. Limbaugh nor Mr. Bennett lobby for laws to
limit free speech. I have seen lots of action being taken to stifle
unpopular "offensive" speach from so called liberals.
As a former liberal democrat, the more I hear from both sides, the more
I find myself agreeing with the *right*. Strident righteousness seems
to be a leftist fashion.
Jonathan Rosenberg (rez)
"Paul J. Howell" <pjho...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>
>> i've watched limbaugh's show, and i think he's a "intolerant
>
>name one instance (in context please)
>
i'm not going to go dig out all the transcripts from his shows and
quote them back to you. feel free to go red them. i'm sure they're out
there somewhere.
i think you misinterpreted my statement. i wasn't talking about rush
here. i was talking about you. personally. i want to know who you are,
yes, you, to tell me whether someone can or cannot read carrie. you
advocated that teenagers shouldn't be allowed to read carrie because
the book describes a biological process commonly known as
menstruation. and i want to know who you are to draw such a line.
Paul J. Howell
>
> i think you misinterpreted my statement. i wasn't talking about rush
> here. i was talking about you. personally. i want to know who you are,
> yes, you, to tell me whether someone can or cannot read carrie. you
> advocated that teenagers shouldn't be allowed to read carrie because
> the book describes a biological process commonly known as
> menstruation. and i want to know who you are to draw such a line.
Getting testy are we?
If you wish to go back and read what I wrote, you'll find that I did not
advocate banning Carrie. I said I was disturbed by it, which is exactly
what Mr. King intended. Put your hand under the sheet and feel
here...and here...
I wouldn't have a problem with teenagers reading Carrie. I read it when
I was 16 myself. Ask me about pre-teens and I may have a different
opinion.
FYI, my opinion of age appropriate books is only enforcable within my
own family. It's not like I am running for political office or
anything.
When it comes to published fiction, I feel any adult has the right to
read whatever they want, as graphic as they feel comfortable with.
I get bent out of shape when bozos like you, yes you, put words into my
mouth (and the mouths of Rush and Bill Bennett) and claim things that
you inferred were actually said.
A man is overheard in his office referring to someone as a big boy. A
black man hears it and thinks him a racist. A gay man hears it and
thinks it is a sexual innuendo. Another hears it and thinks he is
referring in an unflattering way to an overweight person. Actually he is
speaking of his four year old son . . .
My point is, try to understand that what you may consider boorish or
oppressive may not have been intended that way . . .
I'm stepping off my soapbox now...
J. Wermont
Paul J. Howell <pjho...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
> FYI, my opinion of age appropriate books is only enforcable within
> my own family. It's not like I am running for political office or
> anything.
Perhaps not, but I presume you do vote. Would you support a candidate
who advocated banning books along age lines? It's not like you have no
power to influence others with your views. And certainly you have every
right to do so, but if you do, then I will exercise my right to object
and to try to influence people (voters, candidates, etc) in a different
direction. When what you do does affects my life personally, it is my
business.
Joyce
jwer...@netcom.com
Jonathan Rosenberg (rez)
"Paul J. Howell" <pjho...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>
>> i think you misinterpreted my statement. i wasn't talking about rush
>> here. i was talking about you. personally. i want to know who you are,
>> yes, you, to tell me whether someone can or cannot read carrie. you
>> advocated that teenagers shouldn't be allowed to read carrie because
>> the book describes a biological process commonly known as
>> menstruation. and i want to know who you are to draw such a line.
>
>Getting testy are we?
>
no, not getting testy. just having a logical discussion. i want you to
support your statement. i want to uinderstand the reasoning behind
what you say.
>If you wish to go back and read what I wrote, you'll find that I did not
>advocate banning Carrie. I said I was disturbed by it, which is exactly
>what Mr. King intended. Put your hand under the sheet and feel
>here...and here...
you said:
" I wouldn't "ban" it, but I also wouldn't
want it to be read by pre-teens"
teens, pre-teens, whatever. fine. i made a mistake and i didn't use
the pre- suffix. once again, i ask, who are you to tell anyone,
preteen or no, what they can or can't read?
and i personally don't find menstruation squeal-inducing or
disturbing. i was a biology major during college. the process was
explained to me at length. it was not trauma inducing, and didn't
permanently disturb my psyche. if children come across a reference to
menstruation, their parents will probably do damage to them if they
treat it as a 'disgusting' subject, one not fit for their ears. if
these children are treated with some respect, and the reference is
explained tot hem for what it is, my guess is that they'll groiw up a
little more well-adjusted.
it's been a while since i've read carrie, but i believe that this was
exactly what Mr. King was trying to say. Carrie didn't know about
menstruation; her mother never explained it to her. thus, she was
traumatized when it started and didn't know what was going on.
knowledge doesn't hurt children. the denial of knowledge hurts them.
>
>I wouldn't have a problem with teenagers reading Carrie. I read it when
>I was 16 myself. Ask me about pre-teens and I may have a different
>opinion.
>
>FYI, my opinion of age appropriate books is only enforcable within my
>own family. It's not like I am running for political office or
>anything.
>
>When it comes to published fiction, I feel any adult has the right to
>read whatever they want, as graphic as they feel comfortable with.
>
>I get bent out of shape when bozos like you, yes you, put words into my
>mouth (and the mouths of Rush and Bill Bennett) and claim things that
>you inferred were actually said.
>
bozo? seems like you're intent on having a mature discussion here. try
talking like an adult. not a pre-teen.
>A man is overheard in his office referring to someone as a big boy. A
>black man hears it and thinks him a racist. A gay man hears it and
>thinks it is a sexual innuendo. Another hears it and thinks he is
>referring in an unflattering way to an overweight person. Actually he is
>speaking of his four year old son . . .
>
>My point is, try to understand that what you may consider boorish or
>oppressive may not have been intended that way . . .
>
>I'm stepping off my soapbox now...
as am i.
Kim Murrell
In article <3258a3e3...@news.demon.co.uk> ca...@clems.demon.co.uk (Carol Clements) writes:
> On Wed, 09 Oct 1996 16:37:14 -0700, "Jon R." <Jon.R...@nor.uib.no>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Does this mean I have to start flaming and trying to be entertaining?
> As if the cramps and headaches aren't bad enough! Can't I just be
> mad? I'm good at mad. : )
>
> SAY YES, OR I'LL HAVE YOUR NUTS FOR EARRINGS!!
>
ROTFLMAO!!!!!
Oh Carol! You made me fall out of my chair with that one!
I love it!
Kim
--
Kim Murrell ki...@mail.warped.com
"having a pony to ride was better than no pony at all,
no matter how the weather of it's heart might lie."
Jon R.
Carol Clements wrote:
>
> On Wed, 09 Oct 1996 16:37:14 -0700, "Jon R." <Jon.R...@nor.uib.no>
> wrote:
>
> >the vampire has oral sex with a menstruating woman. It's her best book,
> >though. Seriously, I see your point, but I don't really think it's
> >fair (I'm sure you agree, but we can't control gut reactions, right?)
> >being grossed out by something most women would want to be rid of if
> >they could. It makes for some very entertaining flames once a month,
> >though!
>
> that be "to bleed?") pile. Got to read about half a dozen other books
> first though...
>
> As if the cramps and headaches aren't bad enough! Can't I just be
> mad? I'm good at mad. : )
>
> SAY YES, OR I'LL HAVE YOUR NUTS FOR EARRINGS!!
>
> Carol.
Er...yes?
And don't worry. There are others, Dani K. being the undisputed black
belt in the art of flaming.
As for nuts and earrings....I don't think that'll look too good. And if
you come for my nuts, I'll say "don't screw with me", then bolt.
Jon R.
-punslinger-
Angelo Wentzler
ca...@clems.demon.co.uk (Carol Clements) writes:
>On 8 Oct 96 13:01:44 GMT, rcb...@urc.tue.nl (Angelo Wentzler) wrote:
>Brings to mind that old chestnut about men thinking about sex every 15
>seconds or so... : )
Not true at all! It's more like 10 seconds ;-) It's true, it's all we have.
Women don't need us, except for at the very beginning, if you catch my
drift, and that's why we're almost obsessed by it. We want to shine in that
one short moment of usefulness.
>Seriously, I can sort of understand the male perspective, but it's the
>*complaining* I find the hardest to cope with. Women have been doing
You won't hear me complaining. Well, maybe I would if I got the chance,
being single and everything. Men are selfish, and they just can't stand
having to keep their hands off "their" woman for a whole (!) week.
>menstruating women are treated like lepers. I don't know, it just
>really pisses me off. After all, *we're* the ones with the pain and
>the general inconvenience. *We're* the ones with the right to
>complain about it!
You know what really pisses me off? The patronising commercials. As if
using the right kind of sanitary towel or tampon solves all your problems.
My mother's menstruation is very painful and I just can't stand the tone of
those commercials. The latest one (for always "comfort" of all things) goes
like this: there's this happy melody, and a woman complains that she can
never find a jeans that fits. Then a voice over says "at least always
comfort fits!" Happy happy joy joy. AAAAAAAARRRRGGGGHHHH!
Beats Chuckie hands down.
>That's one of the many reasons why I like King. In his books people
>piss, fart, fuck, bleed, swear, puke and have the trots - they do what
>*we* do. They're real.
Right. In other books I always wonder why those people don't explode or
something. I mean, a week without going to the loo!
What are trots, by the way?
>...I forgot what letter of the alphabet we got to.....um....I'll go
>backwards just to be safe...and appropriate...
I just did G with a lot of effort, so I guess H is next.
>Blobbie blobbie blobbieeeeeeee
In Brittain there's this guy Noel that goes around in a pink suit with
yellow dots. The character is called Mr. Blobby and it's only capable of
saying "Blobby blobby blobbieeeeee"
It has distinct similarities with another prominent character on this
group, but I wouldn't know which one for the life of me.
>Carol.
>PS Pardon my language, I was semi-quoting.
Which language? I saw nothing offensive...
Chuckie chuckie chuckieeeeee!
Angelo
Angelo Wentzler
ca...@clems.demon.co.uk (Carol Clements) writes:
>On 8 Oct 96 13:06:37 GMT, rcb...@urc.tue.nl (Angelo Wentzler) wrote:
>Angelo, careful, we're starting to agree on things. This is scary.
Well, we *are* on the absk group. What did you expect? Cookie recipes?
BTW, a good addendum for the cookbook: those martinis from Regulators, I
forgot the precise name...
>You mean you *liked* Gerald's Game? You didn't think it was
>boring/gross/tedious/female psyche crap or whatever?
Carol, Carol, Carol. <shakes head with disappointment>
I thought you knew me better. I won't say it's my favourite, because
there's always the Stand and the Tower, but it's in the top regions. A good
book should have strong characters, and you don't get them better than
Jessie. Besides, it has the most gruelling horror moment of all of his
books.
I think the real reason I like it so much is because my stories tend to
come out like that too. It's close to home, so to speak. I'm really awful
with dialogue, but description and plot seems ok. So I try to hide the fact
I just can't write good dialogue by omitting it. Most of my stories never
get finished anyway, so it doesn't matter, I guess.
>There's hope... : D
Hopefully Happy Halfwits Hate Harassing.
On to "I."
Chuckie chuckie chuckieeeeee!
Angelo
Angelo Wentzler
ca...@clems.demon.co.uk (Carol Clements) writes:
>You could have something there Joyce. I could drag out the
>circumcision one every time the old ex neglects his kids (about once a
>week) and change it to this one once a month! Yes! Why not?
Just don't mix'em up okay? "Everyone that can throw away the wrong bit and
not *die* deserves to be circumcised"
><trundling off to the sig files waving sanitary towels and tampons in
>the air>
>Carol.
Oh, man, where were you all these years! You crack me up! The image! Oh, my
cheeks!
Chuckie chuckie chuckieeeeee!
Angelo
Angelo Wentzler
Paul Howell <pjho...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>I found the scenes of menstration disturbing, as I am sure they were
>intended to be. I wouldn't "ban" it, but I also wouldn't
Actually, the one in Carrie was meant to illustrate how ignorant her mother
had kept her by being so overzealously religious...
And it happens. I have no trouble imagining how scared an unprepared girl
would be.
Chuckie chuckie chuckieeeeee!
Angelo
Angelo Wentzler
ca...@clems.demon.co.uk (Carol Clements) writes:
>>> Gerald's Game was okay, but the tie in with Dolores Claiborne got to be
>>a bit much. Felt a bit like one novel split into two...
>I'm probably being spectacularly wrong again, but I *think* that was
>the original intention - one book. I liked the tie-in.
Called "In the path off the eclipse," yes.
>I felt like that the last time I saw Torvill and Dean go for the
>Olympics. They should have stayed out of it. I think this Mystery
>tour phenomenon comes of being a long-time reader of King's books.
I never saw it like that. I think Paul is reading too much into it. Every
writer has his or her favourite images that keep popping up once and again.
If I ever got a book it would probably have some sort of transformation in
it. I've always found that fascinating, in any form. So it might be a mousy
person becoming a regular Rambo, or in another story an actual physical
change. Change is important. People that know me also know I'm terrified of
stagnation. I think that's romantic, in the litterary sense, you know,
never satisfied with what you have, always looking for new horizons, the
sailor on the beach and all that.
King seems to have this recurring theme of kid heroes. Jake, Jack, David,
Tom Cullen in a way...
>>Don't think I didn't enjoy it. I really did. I just felt that I had
>>read much of it before.
>I know what you mean. I've been thinking similar thoughts, and it's
>depressing me. I *love* my King books, but I wonder if I've read too
>many, too often. I'm starting to *expect* certain things and nod my
>head when they turn up just where they're supposed to. Worrying...
Well, there's only so much new stuff you can come up with. Lately I find
that I can often predict the endings of his books, because I recognise the
way he gives out his hints. For example, in Regulators, the thing Audrey
had to do near the end, was immediately obvious to me. (Read and find
out...)
Chuckie chuckie chuckieeeeee!
Angelo
Angelo Wentzler
"Jon R." <Jon.R...@nor.uib.no> writes:
>Then you should not read Memnoch The Devil by Anne Rice, where Lestat
>the vampire has oral sex with a menstruating woman. It's her best book,
Well, I guess it wouldn't have the intended effect on me. Knowing Rice,
it's probably an attempt at being "horrifically erotic" and while it
usually works for me, this time it wouldn't.
>though. Seriously, I see your point, but I don't really think it's
>fair (I'm sure you agree, but we can't control gut reactions, right?)
My first reaction was, "that's like telling someone brething's not fair."
I can't help it. I don't think women are filthy during their period, I
don't avoid or hate them, I'm just easily grossed out by the *description*
of it. In reality I deeply sympathise with women.
>being grossed out by something most women would want to be rid of if
>they could. It makes for some very entertaining flames once a month,
>though!
I play Role Playing games (AD&D in particular) on the net, and when you
pick a character, you usually put some wishful thinking in there. Most
female players I know use the "magic potion" that makes you infertile and
stop menstruating as long as you use it sparingly (like some super pill.)
In single sex groups the subject doesn't come up, but sexuality does play a
role if the players are of mixed sex. It's interesting what you learn of
people's dreams and wishes (however simple) through play by mail!
Chuckie chuckie chuckieeeeee!
Angelo
Vegard
In article <rcbaaw.8...@asterix.urc.tue.nl>, rcb...@urc.tue.nl
(Angelo Wentzler) writes:
> You know what really pisses me off? The patronising commercials. As if
> using the right kind of sanitary towel or tampon solves all your problems.
Now, I'd like to see a commercial made by Stephen King.
For instance, you could have Annie Wilkes pull out one of those things
after chopping off Paul's legs to clean up the mess.
I can just picture her looking at the bloody thing saying "They really
are more absorbing!".
Just a thought...
--
Vegard
"The shit that happens fertilizes the sweet roses of memory."
Paul J. Howell
> Perhaps not, but I presume you do vote. Would you support a candidate
> who advocated banning books along age lines?
Would you vote for a person who thinks it's okay for ten year olds to read adult novels? How
about if he thinks it's okay for teenagers to watch porno movies? Where do you draw the line?
Scribbler
Jon R. wrote:
>
>
> Then you should not read Memnoch The Devil by Anne Rice, where Lestat
> the vampire has oral sex with a menstruating woman. It's her best book,
> fair (I'm sure you agree, but we can't control gut reactions, right?)
> they could.
Personally, if I had to choose, I'd take a mentrual blood over smegma any
day of the week--
(being really truly gross, now)
Scribbler
Scribbler
Paul Howell wrote:
>
> > LOL LOL LOL!!!!! Funny man. That's an odd way of looking at things. My
> > mention of Limbaugh and Bennett was due exactly to what you are
> > saying--RL and BB are "moral" and social, cultural *censors*.
<snip the rest of my rant>
> I'll bet you have neither read Bill Bennett's Book of Virtues nor
> listened to Limbaugh's show.
You bet wrong, my friend. I've also read the Bennett vs Andrew
whatzisname on the subject of gays marrying, etc. I've watched A&E's
very moderate bio of Limbaugh and seen the t.v. show. I've held
Bennett's sanctimonious tome in my hands and stood shocked at the man's
utter arrogance.
>Too bad. You might be surprised to find
> out that they are not homophobic, nor racist, nor sexist.
I wasn't surprised at all, to learn that there really are hate-mongerors
and "moral" police in N. America.
>I do not
> consider myself a "rightest". I am a registered Democrat, I believe in
> a women's right to choose
My, aren't you generous.
> I am tolerent to a fault. However, I do
> believe that a society without a moral center is doomed
Okay, here's my problem. Whose moral centre should I adhere to? I'm
sorry, there's no such thing as a Universal Morality. Bennett and his
ilk go by a different school and I see you're a pupil. That's fine.
>and I believe in
> personal restraint
This is ambiguous. Is my sense of restraint the same as yours? Is yours
the same as that of the Puritan agenda? Likely not--you see how society
progresses? Bennett and such are merely trying to hold onto the past.
>and a personal sense of decency and would like more
> people to believe likewise.
My personal decency is "Do unto others..." That's as far as it goes, and
that, my friend, is actually more than most could hope for. Bennett
would prefer I adopt a "Do as I do..." morality, but I'm sorry.
"Morality" is a rightist construction. Don't hurt others. Live and let
live. That's more of an agenda than what's going on today, anyway.
> I found the scenes of menstration disturbing, as I am sure they were
> intended to be. I wouldn't "ban" it, but I also wouldn't
> want it to be read by pre-teens.
Well you can keep it away from your pre-teens and trust other parents to
do what they feel is right. Maybe my pre-teen is more well-adjusted and
mature than yours? I was in fact a pre-teen when I read Carrie, and not
much older when I saw it on video. My mind, you know, didn't shatter,
and I haven't developed a blood fetish. Yet.
>We seem to be caught between the
> extremes of banning anything offensive to anyone and banning nothing, no
> matter how offensive it may be.
The only thing I could agree to "ban" is hate-literature, and anything
similar which goes about disguised under "Big Book of My own personal
white male Xian het Virtues" titles.
> Not a problem we will settle here...
>
> Paul
No, I don't know why I even bother responding. Your views of course are
your own, and your entitlement--I'm afraid that's *my* morality.
Scribbler
Carol Clements
On 10 Oct 1996 16:34:19 +0200, veg...@ifi.uio.no (Vegard ) wrote:
>Now, I'd like to see a commercial made by Stephen King.
>
>For instance, you could have Annie Wilkes pull out one of those things
>after chopping off Paul's legs to clean up the mess.
>
>I can just picture her looking at the bloody thing saying "They really
>are more absorbing!".
The *bloody* thing!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
>Just a thought...
Oh Vegard, that made my day!
Carol.
An old friend will help you move, a good friend will help
you move a body.
Some Newspaper Somewhere
Carol Clements
On 10 Oct 96 12:54:23 GMT, rcb...@urc.tue.nl (Angelo Wentzler) wrote:
I snipped most of your post, and I hated to do it, but time and
bandwidth is of the essence and all that..
>Right. In other books I always wonder why those people don't explode or
>something. I mean, a week without going to the loo!
>What are trots, by the way?
The trots? Otherwise known as the squits? Diarrhoea - and I can
spell it too! (and *smell* it - oh, I'm *sorry!!).
>>Blobbie blobbie blobbieeeeeeee
>
>In Brittain there's this guy Noel that goes around in a pink suit with
>yellow dots. The character is called Mr. Blobby and it's only capable of
>saying "Blobby blobby blobbieeeeee"
That's why I said it - also we have this term over here - "on the
blob" which relates to menstruation. Actually, I thought that one was
quite clever, and it passed you by. Ho hum...
Is it I?
Shauna
Scribbler wrote:
> Personally, if I had to choose, I'd take a mentrual blood over smegma any
> day of the week--
>
> (being really truly gross, now)
> Scribbler
I usually look forward to your posts. Can't say that this one
lived up to your usual high standards of expository taste. :)
Shauna
--
"If music be the food of love, play on...."
- Shakespeare
Barbara Levy
rcb...@urc.tue.nl (Angelo Wentzler) wrote:
>Paul Howell <pjho...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>>I found the scenes of menstration disturbing, as I am sure they were
>>intended to be. I wouldn't "ban" it, but I also wouldn't
>Actually, the one in Carrie was meant to illustrate how ignorant her mother
>had kept her by being so overzealously religious...
>And it happens. I have no trouble imagining how scared an unprepared girl
>would be.
My mother went through almost the same thing. My grandmother never
told her about her period until it was actually happening. My mother
thought she was bleeding to death when it started. My grandmother
slapped her across the face (to bring color to her cheeks from the
loss of blood, you see <g>) and told her "You're a woman now. Don't
let a man touch you or you'll have a baby." and that was the end of
that discussion. Luckily, my mom had an aunt that she was close with
who explained what was happening to her body.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Barbara Levy
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"There are things here in Derry that bite."
- Albert Carson
Barbara Levy
ca...@clems.demon.co.uk (Carol Clements) wrote:
>On 10 Oct 96 12:54:23 GMT, rcb...@urc.tue.nl (Angelo Wentzler) wrote:
>I snipped most of your post, and I hated to do it, but time and
>bandwidth is of the essence and all that..
>>Right. In other books I always wonder why those people don't explode or
>>something. I mean, a week without going to the loo!
>>What are trots, by the way?
>The trots? Otherwise known as the squits? Diarrhoea - and I can
>spell it too! (and *smell* it - oh, I'm *sorry!!).
>>>Blobbie blobbie blobbieeeeeeee
>>
>>In Brittain there's this guy Noel that goes around in a pink suit with
>>yellow dots. The character is called Mr. Blobby and it's only capable of
>>saying "Blobby blobby blobbieeeeee"
>That's why I said it - also we have this term over here - "on the
>blob" which relates to menstruation. Actually, I thought that one was
>quite clever, and it passed you by. Ho hum...
>Is it I?
Hmmm..."On the blob"...That's a new one for me. I've heard "on the
rag", and "a visit from a friend", but never being "on the blob".
Thanks, Carol, for adding yet another useful phrase to my vocabulary.
:-)
Barbara Levy
"Paul J. Howell" <pjho...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
I think that would make me think more about his parenting skills
rather than his ability to run for politician. The bottom line is you
bring your children up the best way you can. If Bill Clinton felt it
was ok for Chelsea to watch "The Devil In Miss Jones" when she was 13,
that doesn't make it law for all 13-year-olds to watch porno movies.
I would still have the final say in what my child reads and watches.
Barbara Levy
Scribbler <scri...@istar.ca> wrote:
>Jon R. wrote:
>>
>>
>> Then you should not read Memnoch The Devil by Anne Rice, where Lestat
>> the vampire has oral sex with a menstruating woman. It's her best book,
>> though. Seriously, I see your point, but I don't really think it's
>> fair (I'm sure you agree, but we can't control gut reactions, right?)
>> being grossed out by something most women would want to be rid of if
>> they could.
>Personally, if I had to choose, I'd take a mentrual blood over smegma any
>day of the week--
>(being really truly gross, now)
I know I'm being really obtuse, but what is smegma?
Jonathan Rosenberg (rez)
"Paul J. Howell" <pjho...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>> Perhaps not, but I presume you do vote. Would you support a candidate
>> who advocated banning books along age lines?
>
>Would you vote for a person who thinks it's okay for ten year olds to read adult novels?
yes.
>How about if he thinks it's okay for teenagers to watch porno movies?
yes.
> Where do you draw the line?
i don't. that's what freedom of speech is all about.
Angelo Wentzler
veg...@ifi.uio.no (Vegard ) writes:
>> You know what really pisses me off? The patronising commercials. As if
>> using the right kind of sanitary towel or tampon solves all your problems.
>Now, I'd like to see a commercial made by Stephen King.
>For instance, you could have Annie Wilkes pull out one of those things
>after chopping off Paul's legs to clean up the mess.
>I can just picture her looking at the bloody thing saying "They really
>are more absorbing!".
Good one!
yesterday I saw "they think it's all over" on BBC, and one of the questions
was, how did (famous cricket player) get hurt by this mnila envelope, so he
couldn't play (important match) ?
The answer given by one of the contestants was: "did it contain a sanitary
towel, and was he simply absorbed by it?"
It was funny when I saw it yesterday, anyway.
Chuckie chuckie chuckieeeeee!
Angelo
--
rcb...@urc.tue.nl (internet) Hemelrijken 167, 5612 LC Eindhoven, Netherlands
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The good are innocent and create justice. The bad are guilty, which is why
they invent mercy." -- Terry Pratchett, Witches Abroad.
Angelo Wentzler
"Paul J. Howell" <pjho...@ix.netcom.com> writes:
>> Perhaps not, but I presume you do vote. Would you support a candidate
>> who advocated banning books along age lines?
>Would you vote for a person who thinks it's okay for ten year olds to read adult novels? How
>about if he thinks it's okay for teenagers to watch porno movies? Where do you draw the line?
Okay. I have been reading this drivel for a while now, mostly feeling the
way I feel when I watch Ricky Lake (frustrated, in case you're clueless).
*This* nonsense, however, has to be responded to. (Damn, I fell for it
again...)
Let us analyse it.
Both posters try to justify their opinions by giving an example of
something you would definitely *not* vote for. In other words: they give an
example of what they think is wrong and then ask "would you vote for
someone who condones this?"
You, Paul, seem to be against letting kids read so called "adult" books. I
will assume you don't mean the euphemism for "porn" with that term, even
though in your next sentence you seem to try to draw an analogy, trying to
move on to an older group and something that's "obviously" bad for *them*.
What I want to know is, assuming "adult" means "suitable only for adults,"
who decides which novel is "adult?" That's a very arbitrary term, don't you
think?
What you're saying is it's not okay for ten year olds to read books of
which you don't think it's okay for them to read. Circular reasoning if I
ever heard it.
But, even worse, since you would not vote for a person that allows kids to
read "adult" books, you seem to be *for* a law that would prohibit kids to
read certain books. No matter what you call it, that is censorship.
Now there'll be a reply saying that I put words into your mouth, but please
don't insult my intelligence.
Carol Clements
>I know I'm being really obtuse, but what is smegma?
>
Not obtuse, I had to have it explained to me a few years ago.
Bell-end brie. We have a terrific phrase over here - often bandied
about in my house. It comes from the Red Dwarf series and it's
"smeg-head". Or, as we prefer to say it "smuuuheeeee".
Carol.
(beginning to wonder if I can *ever* be grossed out again!).
TAOISM - Shit happens
BUDDISM - If shit happens, it's not really shit
CATHOLICISM - Shit happens because you're bad
JEHOVAH - Knock knock, shit happens
HARE KRISHNA - Shit happens rama lama ding dong
Scribbler
Carol Clements wrote:
>
> On Fri, 11 Oct 1996 02:42:12 GMT, barb...@ix.netcom.com (Barbara
> Levy) wrote:
>
> >I know I'm being really obtuse, but what is smegma?
> >
> Not obtuse, I had to have it explained to me a few years ago.
Carol! You're killing me. I laughed so hard I hadda cramp. I've never
heard that expression, it's one of the most disgusting things ever.
Thanks, may I use it?
Scribbler
Corrie and Lee
barb...@ix.netcom.com (Barbara Levy) wrote:
>Hmmm..."On the blob"...That's a new one for me. I've heard "on the
>rag", and "a visit from a friend", but never being "on the blob".
>Thanks, Carol, for adding yet another useful phrase to my vocabulary.
>:-)
My favourite has always been "A visit from Auntie Flo"...
use your imagination! ;)
Corrie
Carol Clements
On 11 Oct 1996 19:41:02 GMT, Scribbler <scri...@istar.ca> wrote:
>
>Carol! You're killing me. I laughed so hard I hadda cramp. I've never
>heard that expression, it's one of the most disgusting things ever.
>Thanks, may I use it?
But of *course*. How are you going to use it? I've never found any
good use for that stuff and I can be very inventive when I try. Does
it clean silver? Sorry I caused you pain btw!
Carol.
(next week I'm going to be good. No more bad language and no more
shock tactics. Good. And very *boring*. Paul is praying for me so
I'll be fine won't I?<eg>)
Angelo Wentzler
ca...@clems.demon.co.uk (Carol Clements) writes:
>On 10 Oct 96 12:54:23 GMT, rcb...@urc.tue.nl (Angelo Wentzler) wrote:
>I snipped most of your post, and I hated to do it, but time and
>bandwidth is of the essence and all that..
Yeah, yeah, sure, go ahead. Deny me even that. <crosses arms, pouts out
lower lip>
>The trots? Otherwise known as the squits? Diarrhoea - and I can
>spell it too! (and *smell* it - oh, I'm *sorry!!).
Hm. Yup. Seems there's still a few things to learn yet. Gives a whole new
meaning to the word globetrotter, doesn't it?
>>yellow dots. The character is called Mr. Blobby and it's only capable of
>>saying "Blobby blobby blobbieeeeee"
>That's why I said it - also we have this term over here - "on the
>blob" which relates to menstruation. Actually, I thought that one was
>quite clever, and it passed you by. Ho hum...
On the blob... <screen wobbles, cut to mental picture: woman sits down.
Squishing sounds. Apologetically: "I'm on the blob" screen wobbles
again...> yeah, I guess that's as good a word as any.
>Is it I?
Jesus, jumpin' jeepers! Jolly jesters juggling jellybeans!
(I must say this is easier than Latin...)
Antti Matikka
On 10 Oct 96 13:20:58 GMT, rcb...@urc.tue.nl (Angelo Wentzler)
wrote:
>Well, we *are* on the absk group. What did you expect? Cookie recipes?
You want one?
Go to rec.pets.cats :)
There's one interesting (hi, Carol) one.
Andy
Jonathan Rosenberg (rez)
ca...@clems.demon.co.uk (Carol Clements) wrote:
>On 11 Oct 1996 19:41:02 GMT, Scribbler <scri...@istar.ca> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Carol! You're killing me. I laughed so hard I hadda cramp. I've never
>>heard that expression, it's one of the most disgusting things ever.
>>Thanks, may I use it?
>
>But of *course*. How are you going to use it? I've never found any
>good use for that stuff and I can be very inventive when I try. Does
>it clean silver? Sorry I caused you pain btw!
>
>Carol.
>(next week I'm going to be good. No more bad language and no more
>shock tactics. Good. And very *boring*.
aww.... just when it was getting exciting....
>Paul is praying for me so
>I'll be fine won't I?<eg>)
>
we all pray down here.....
-jonny
-----------------------------------------
jonathan rosenberg
rez...@village.ios.com
"We use choicest juicy chunks of fresh
Cornish ram's bladder, emptied, steamed,
flavoured with sesame seeds whipped into
a fondue and garnished with lark's vomit."
Carol Clements
On Mon, 14 Oct 1996 05:09:27 GMT, barb...@ix.netcom.com (Barbara
Levy) wrote:
>Thanks, Carol! Shauna emailed me with the info, but as usual, you
>have your own colorful way of explaining. I'm really glad you're on
>this group! :-)
...well, at least *someone* is. Thanks Barbara. I'm going to be
pretty unpopular by the time I get out of the God-thread. ;-)
Good job I gave up on the idea of universal popularity as a realistic
possibility when I was a very young person eh?
Carol.
(still having fun)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The Teddy Bear, all things to all ages....
symbol that all is right with the world
if one only believes." Anon.
BEARISM: Why does this shit always stick to my fur?
Nigel Clements.
Carol Clements
On Mon, 14 Oct 1996 20:33:16 -0700, "Jon R." <Jon.R...@nor.uib.no>
wrote:
>Vegard wrote:
>(SNIP)
>> Now, I'd like to see a commercial made by Stephen King.(SNIP)
>
>Sorry to suddenly and unexpectedly go on-topic here, but if you've
>read Cujo, you'll find that SK indeed would have made a great ad man.
>
How *dare* you go on-topic! Shame on you Jon! Flog yourself
forthwith! Or fifthwith if you prefer!! : D
Carol.
Barbara Levy
ca...@clems.demon.co.uk (Carol Clements) wrote:
>On Fri, 11 Oct 1996 02:42:12 GMT, barb...@ix.netcom.com (Barbara
>Levy) wrote:
>>I know I'm being really obtuse, but what is smegma?
>>
>Not obtuse, I had to have it explained to me a few years ago.
>Bell-end brie. We have a terrific phrase over here - often bandied
>about in my house. It comes from the Red Dwarf series and it's
>"smeg-head". Or, as we prefer to say it "smuuuheeeee".
>Carol.
>(beginning to wonder if I can *ever* be grossed out again!).
Thanks, Carol! Shauna emailed me with the info, but as usual, you
have your own colorful way of explaining. I'm really glad you're on
this group! :-)
Jon R.
Vegard wrote:
(SNIP)
> Now, I'd like to see a commercial made by Stephen King.(SNIP)
Sorry to suddenly and unexpectedly go on-topic here, but if you've
read Cujo, you'll find that SK indeed would have made a great ad man.
Jon R.
Barbara Levy
>barb...@ix.netcom.com (Barbara Levy) wrote:
LOL! :-D Funny thing is, I really do have an Auntie Flo - she's
married to my Uncle Eddie.
AP. Clarke
Corrie and Lee (lee...@idirect.com) wrote:
: >Hmmm..."On the blob"...That's a new one for me. I've heard "on the
: >rag", and "a visit from a friend", but never being "on the blob".
: My favourite has always been "A visit from Auntie Flo"...
: use your imagination! ;)
What about 'period' itself? - a wonderful euphemism which means absolutely
nothing.
Jared
--
Jared Head at the Department of Biochemistry, University of Bristol
We sense that life is a dark comedy and maybe we can live with that.
However because the whole thing is written for the entertainment of the
gods, too many of the jokes go right over our heads.
"Two Vanished Victims" - Martin Stillwater
Jon Skeet
AP. Clarke <bi...@zeus.bris.ac.uk> wrote:
> Corrie and Lee (lee...@idirect.com) wrote:
>
> : >Hmmm..."On the blob"...That's a new one for me. I've heard "on the
> : >rag", and "a visit from a friend", but never being "on the blob".
> :
> : My favourite has always been "A visit from Auntie Flo"...
> : use your imagination! ;)
>
> What about 'period' itself? - a wonderful euphemism which means absolutely
> nothing.
Not sure about that, actually... I'd say 'period' is a fairly good
word, as it at least describes one characteristic of what it
describes: it's roughly periodic.
--
Jon Skeet
When 900 years old *you* reach, look as good *you* will not, hmm?
Yoda - http://awh01.trin.cam.ac.uk. Geek code:
d- s:- a-- C++ UL++ P+ L++ W+++ N++ w--- M-- t- 5 X+ tv b+++ D+ G h* r++
Paul J. Howell
> >Hmmm..."On the blob"...That's a new one for me. I've heard "on the
> >rag", and "a visit from a friend", but never being "on the blob".
>
> >:-)
>
> use your imagination! ;)
Paul
OD. Makinde
Jon Skeet (jl...@cam.ac.uk) wrote:
: > What about 'period' itself? - a wonderful euphemism which means absolutely
: > nothing.
: Not sure about that, actually... I'd say 'period' is a fairly good
: word, as it at least describes one characteristic of what it
: describes: it's roughly periodic.
I'd never thought of it like that - I thought it was more along the lines
of time of the month, a 'period' during which something unmentionable
happens.
Jon Skeet
OD. Makinde <bi...@zeus.bris.ac.uk> wrote:
> Jon Skeet (jl...@cam.ac.uk) wrote:
>
>:> What about 'period' itself? - a wonderful euphemism which means absolutely
>:> nothing.
>
> : Not sure about that, actually... I'd say 'period' is a fairly good
> : word, as it at least describes one characteristic of what it
> : describes: it's roughly periodic.
>
> I'd never thought of it like that - I thought it was more along the lines
> of time of the month, a 'period' during which something unmentionable
> happens.
Ah, that's 'cos your a biochemist, and I'm a mathmo with leanings
towards electronics :)
Paul J. Howell
> Paul is praying for me so I'll be fine won't I?<eg>)
You make a few comments, ruffle a few feathers, and suddenly
people are making fun of you.
I feel like Ross Perot, only saner (barely) ;)
Paul
Carol Clements
On Tue, 15 Oct 1996 10:31:27 GMT, bi...@zeus.bris.ac.uk (AP. Clarke)
wrote:
>What about 'period' itself? - a wonderful euphemism which means absolutely
>nothing.
Apart from the period of approximately a month between each one you
have a point there. Maybe we should consider another term. Jo Brand
has a more direct way of putting it, but I promised I was going to be
good this week so I'm not going to tell you what it is.
Restraint is a virtue. So is patience. I have neither. : )
Antti Matikka
>On Tue, 15 Oct 1996 10:31:27 GMT, bi...@zeus.bris.ac.uk (AP. Clarke)
>wrote:
>>What about 'period' itself? - a wonderful euphemism which means absolutely
>>nothing.
>Apart from the period of approximately a month between each one you
>have a point there. Maybe we should consider another term.
It seems like we Finns have no such shy restrictions.
The official term, used in tampon ads etc. is (approximately)
'monthlies', but a more common term is 'menses' with some fond
Finnish variations that can't really be translated.
Frankly, I don't remember hearing any blatant euphemisms here.
Andy
Jon R.
Pretty much like here in Norway, where it's "mens" (short for
menstruation) all the way.
Jon R.
Eggman
From: ca...@clems.demon.co.uk (Carol Clements)
Subject: Re: Carrie: when/where/why was it banned?
Date: Sun, 06 Oct 1996 23:40:19 GMT
On Tue, 08 Oct 1996 09:15:55 -0700, Sarah Ross <in5...@wlv.ac.uk>
wrote:
>Is there anyone else out here who snarled at this as much as I
>did? Not only at the idea of censorship, but at the basis for
>it in this case.
>Yup. Said my piece too.
They banned carrie? why? I mean I knwo it sucked (sorta) but thats no reason
to ban it..Man I hate Mouth Breathing, Book Burning Homeschoolers.
>I mean what was it that was so obscene about that scene?
>Naked teenage girls? Blood? Nah....
Whoa sounds like high school! Minus the girls of course:) ROTFL!
>The idea that nice pink fluffy girls could be that cruel?
>(They can!)
>I know!
Im dating one!:) ROTFL!
>Or was it <gasp> the mention of the fact that women have
>periods?
>They *DO*?? What about commas? : )
so, men have colons:)
>(Sorry should I say we have a friend come to town each
>month) Personally I'm all for debunking the mystery
>surrounding women, menstruation, and everything! :D
><gasp> Sarah! Cardinal visitation if you please! Shock, horror!!!
Menstruation is easy..just slip her a cocktail laced with midol!
>And as for the guys who banned it, well I wish I could send
>'em a copy of Dani's "Home improvments" .jpg :D
send it to me! wait..what is it..no send it to me! whosyo...@juno.com
>My mind is doing overtime on this one. I dread to *think* what that's
>about. No, don't tell Dani to send it to me....my imagination is bad
>enough.
>(who doesn't know whether to bann her womb or stick it on a
>bill-board)
mmmmm...womb:)
>Could we throw darts at it? Eeuw, sorry, I just grossed *myself* out!
Just inflate the fucker and use it as a grocery bag:)
MS (you dont know me..Im just a sick mother fucker!:)
Kenspigle
How about the phrase, in "Paper Moon", utterred by the young black woman,
trying tokeep Ryan O'Neal from barging in on madeline Kahn's tryst with
her hotel friend - "She be having her Lady's Time" - a delightful and
funny line in the movie, and one of my favorite euphemisms.
Cursedly,
Your "friend",
Ken