Sammidges and a Swee' Pickle - 2DG (spoilers)
Bernardine
Though the synopsis on the back of the
cover tells me that "No one understood their
brutal deaths, not even the man who killed them."
I'm _looking_ for some clue that JC is innocent.
I'm somewhat persuaded by the dog confusion
but not thoroughly. However, I wonder if anyone
else's curiosity was piqued by the appearance
of the lunch in Coffee's pocket. He seemed to
know little or nothing about it. Perhaps the
same killer who lured the dog into submission
with sausages gave Coffee the food?
Mention ws also made of the fact that the
food was handed over to one of the dog
owners, in essence that it was not kept as
evidence. Perhaps it is a valuable piece of the
plot?
-----------------------------------------------
The woods are lovely, dark, and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep. (Frost)
Kinet Chi
pett...@fox.nstn.ca (Bernardine) wrote:
:>Yes, I said spoliers...
:>
:>
:>
:>
:>
:>
:>
:>
[cut]
:>Perhaps the
:>same killer who lured the dog into submission
:>with sausages gave Coffee the food?
:>Mention ws also made of the fact that the
:>food was handed over to one of the dog
:>owners, in essence that it was not kept as
:>evidence. Perhaps it is a valuable piece of the
:>plot?
I just finished re-reading the book, and came to the same conclusion.
Coffee doesn't strike me as being the type of person to kill. If he killed
due to a rage, then would he be crafty enough to bait the dog like that? No
mention was made of the wrapping for the sausage being found on the ground
or in Coffee's possession. Where did it go?
More clues. The rape/murders were committed at night. Coffee is afraid of
the dark (he asks Paul if there's a nightlight in the prison). Would he
have wandered so far through pitch black woods?
The place they found Coffee was close to the railroad tracks. After the
search party stopped his howling, Coffee kept staring at the train that was
passing. Was the real killer on that train?
Passing comment: The prosecution said the crime would have been committed by
someone of great strength. Paul mentions a time when an inmate attacked the
prison warden. The warden grabbed the inmate and broke his wrist. That
takes quite a bit of strength also.
%_%_%_%_%_%_%_%_%_%_%_%_%_%_%_%_%_%_%_%_%_%_%_%_%_%_%_%_%_%_%_%_%_
"When I was a child I caught a fleeting glimpse, out of
the corner of my eye. I turned to look but it was gone.
I cannot put my finger on it now, the child has grown.
The Dream is gone." - Pink Floyd "Comfortably Numb"
Bernardine
> In article <pettigrw-1...@ts9-15.hfx.istar.ca>,
> pett...@fox.nstn.ca (Bernardine) wrote:
> :>Yes, I said spoliers...
> :>
> :>
> :>
> :>
> :>
> :>
> :>
> :>
> [cut]
> :>Perhaps the
> :>same killer who lured the dog into submission
> :>with sausages gave Coffee the food?
>
> :>Mention ws also made of the fact that the
> :>food was handed over to one of the dog
> :>owners, in essence that it was not kept as
> :>evidence. Perhaps it is a valuable piece of the
> :>plot?
>
> I just finished re-reading the book, and came to the same conclusion.
> Coffee doesn't strike me as being the type of person to kill. If he killed
> due to a rage, then would he be crafty enough to bait the dog like that? No
> mention was made of the wrapping for the sausage being found on the ground
> or in Coffee's possession. Where did it go?
>
Hey Chi, I checked again, and the "sammidges" are "wrapped in
newspaper and tied with a hank of _butcher's_ twine". AHA!
> More clues. The rape/murders were committed at night. Coffee is afraid of
> the dark (he asks Paul if there's a nightlight in the prison). Would he
> have wandered so far through pitch black woods?
>
Agree! I wan't sure if the abductions took place during the night
or at dawn, but I checked and you're right. The Dettericks got up
at first light , ergo the children were taken earlier or someone would
have heard something.
> The place they found Coffee was close to the railroad tracks. After the
> search party stopped his howling, Coffee kept staring at the train that was
> passing. Was the real killer on that train?
>
> Passing comment: The prosecution said the crime would have been committed by
> someone of great strength. Paul mentions a time when an inmate attacked the
> prison warden. The warden grabbed the inmate and broke his wrist. That
> takes quite a bit of strength also.
Here's a couple more mysterious refs. to Coffee:
(p. 31) "He had no real Southern drawl -- he said I, not *Ah* --
but there was a kind of Southern construction to his
speech that I noticed later. As if he was *from* the
South, but not *of* it."
[p. 32) "He nodded, but doubtfully, as if he wasn't
sure what the radio was. I later found out that this
was true, in a way; Coffee knew things when he
encountered them again, but in between he
forgot."
(Obviously, from 2DG, Stephen King c. 1996)
As to the train, maybe _Coffee_ was supposed
to be on the train. Do we know where he's from,
if he's local?
bev vincent
: > In article <pettigrw-1...@ts9-15.hfx.istar.ca>,
: > pett...@fox.nstn.ca (Bernardine) wrote:
[Lot's of fun stuff deleted]
Now THIS is exactly how the serial novel concept is supposed to work!
We all have our theories and postulations about what is going to happen
next, and because of the publishing schedule, no one knows what is
going to happen further along in the novel. We are all at the same
place in the book at the same time and can thrash it out in as much
detail as we want and no one is going to spoil the discussion by
KNOWING what is going to happen.
I wish we could all be hanging out in a pub or coffee house (Coffey
house??!!) chewing the fat (good french word: bavarder!) about the
book to pass the time for the next installment.
--
Bev Vincent
Houston, TX
Kinet Chi
pett...@fox.nstn.ca (Bernardine) wrote:
>In article <Dq2Ax...@news2.new-york.net>, s...@qed.net (Kinet Chi) wrote:
>
>> In article <pettigrw-1...@ts9-15.hfx.istar.ca>,
>> pett...@fox.nstn.ca (Bernardine) wrote:
:>
:>
:>
:>
:>
:>
:>
:>
{cut}
>> search party stopped his howling, Coffee kept staring at the train that
>> was passing. Was the real killer on that train?
>Here's a couple more mysterious refs. to Coffee:
>
>(p. 31) "He had no real Southern drawl -- he said I, not *Ah* --
>but there was a kind of Southern construction to his
>speech that I noticed later. As if he was *from* the
>South, but not *of* it."
>
>[p. 32) "He nodded, but doubtfully, as if he wasn't
>sure what the radio was. I later found out that this
>was true, in a way; Coffee knew things when he
>encountered them again, but in between he
>forgot."
>
>(Obviously, from 2DG, Stephen King c. 1996)
>
>As to the train, maybe _Coffee_ was supposed
>to be on the train. Do we know where he's from,
>if he's local?
[Shameless speculations w/ few supporting facts follow]
That wasn't mentioned yet, but I was thinking that maybe Coffee was on the
train with the "real killer". Coffee, being afraid of the dark, stayed by
the R.R. tracks while the killer (a hobo?) wandered the woods to see what he
could find.
After the killer had the girls, he made his way back toward the tracks where
he was going to hop another train. He left the bodies in the open (why not,
he would soon be long gone) and Coffee found them.
When they found Coffee, he was fully dressed in a "jumper", I don't think
there is a "fly" or zipper on those things. Did Coffee take the girls, kill
them, rape them, and get dressed again before he broke down and cried?
Kinet Chi
>I wish we could all be hanging out in a pub or coffee house (Coffey
>house??!!) chewing the fat (good french word: bavarder!) about the
>book to pass the time for the next installment.
Sounds like a plan to me. Next time my girlfriend and I drive from NY to
Oklahoma to visit her family, I'll see if anyone between the two points
wants a lift. Just "a hop, skip, and a jump" from there to Texas.
How many extra beds do you have Bev? :)
Bernardine
>
> >Here's a couple more mysterious refs. to Coffee:
> >
> >(p. 31) "He had no real Southern drawl -- he said I, not *Ah* --
> >but there was a kind of Southern construction to his
> >speech that I noticed later. As if he was *from* the
> >South, but not *of* it."
> >
> >[p. 32) "He nodded, but doubtfully, as if he wasn't
> >sure what the radio was. I later found out that this
> >was true, in a way; Coffee knew things when he
> >encountered them again, but in between he
> >forgot."
> >
> >(Obviously, from 2DG, Stephen King c. 1996)
> >
> >As to the train, maybe _Coffee_ was supposed
> >to be on the train. Do we know where he's from,
> >if he's local?
>
> [Shameless speculations w/ few supporting facts follow]
>
> That wasn't mentioned yet, but I was thinking that maybe Coffee was on the
> train with the "real killer". Coffee, being afraid of the dark, stayed by
> the R.R. tracks while the killer (a hobo?) wandered the woods to see what he
> could find.
>
> After the killer had the girls, he made his way back toward the tracks where
> he was going to hop another train. He left the bodies in the open (why not,
> he would soon be long gone) and Coffee found them.
>
But what about the food? Whomever baited the dog, and
possibly Coffey, had to get the food from somewhere, -- we
think-- a butcher shop.
> When they found Coffee, he was fully dressed in a "jumper", I don't think
> there is a "fly" or zipper on those things. Did Coffee take the girls, kill
> them, rape them, and get dressed again before he broke down and cried?
>
Now this is _brilliant_! Especially since Coffey was in such
a state. Moreover, the text notes that he was wearing a bandana
tied kerchief-style around his head. What are the odds that
he could (no matter how big) abduct and carry two 8-years olds
through the brush, etc. and not lose his bandana?
I'm officially calling this the "Unwilling
Accomplice Theory".
[this is better than Twin Peaks!]
Lisa Miller
>In article <pettigrw-1...@ts9-15.hfx.istar.ca>,
> pett...@fox.nstn.ca (Bernardine) wrote:
>:>Yes, I said spoliers...
>I just finished re-reading the book, and came to the same conclusion.
>Coffee doesn't strike me as being the type of person to kill. If he killed
>due to a rage, then would he be crafty enough to bait the dog like that? No
>mention was made of the wrapping for the sausage being found on the ground
>or in Coffee's possession. Where did it go?
>
>The place they found Coffee was close to the railroad tracks. After the
>search party stopped his howling, Coffee kept staring at the train that was
>passing. Was the real killer on that train?
>
>Passing comment: The prosecution said the crime would have been committed by
>someone of great strength. Paul mentions a time when an inmate attacked the
>prison warden. The warden grabbed the inmate and broke his wrist. That
>takes quite a bit of strength also.
>
Not only that, I believe Kinet mentioned in an earlier post the
fact that Coffee kept saying " I tried to take it back." I have the
theory that for whatever reason, J.C happened upon the scene
and:
Caught the killer finishing his horrific business, killed him,
dumped him in a lake or something.
Or:
Arrived on the scene, discovered the two dead girls, perhaps
tried with limited ability to revive them, went hysterical, went into
shock.
I'm thinking that, because he had the lunch on him, maybe he was
going to a job when he happened on the scene. But I agree, I just
don't think he killed them!
Lisa
thep...@one.net
to the world that moved on, John was kind of disoriented, so Roland
gave him the lunch he picked up from the time he was in new york
drawing Ed Koch, who incidentally happens to love New York. So Roland
gave John this sandwich, but while the door was open a giant
lobstosity cachucked through the door and ate the two littles girls
for lunch, but they got interrupted by bigfoot, and he chased them
back through the woods, so now there is a lobstrosity wandering around
the southern wilderness and the mouse was actually a reincarnated
hindu mystic who for some reason remembered his existence as a human
and is now living his existence as a mouse to benefit mankind by
skulking around death rows around the globe. but the sausages in the
sammidge were spoiled after being in Rolands pocket for so long and
when John Coffey ate them they didnt agree with him and hes never
acted the same way since.
============================================================================
Remember when you were young? You shone like the sun... shine on u crazy/\
You reached 4 the secret too soon, you tried 4 the moon....shine on u crazy\/
___ ___/ _/ _/ ______/ ________/ ___ ___/ _____ / ______/ _______/
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ / / _/ _/ _/
_/ ____ _/ ____/ _ _____/ _/ _ _____/ ___/ _ _ __/
_/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _\
_/ _/ _/ _______/ _/ _______/ _/ _______/ _/ _\
C'mon you raver, you seer_\ of visions, c'mon you painter, you piper _\
_\ you prisoner and shine....... _/
______________________________________________________________________
Any Sig suggestions U may have can be emailed to bga...@mirosoft.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Coscolluela Eileene
: More clues. The rape/murders were committed at night. Coffee is afraid of
: have wandered so far through pitch black woods?
I didn't think the murders were committed in the evening. It was
"early morning" and the blood was still fresh on the porch.
Eileene Coscolluela |"All our science, measured against
University of Illinois | reality, is primitive and childlike --
ecos...@students.uiuc.edu | and yet it is the most precious thing
http://www.students.uiuc.edu/~ecoscoll/| we have." --Albert Einstein
Kinet Chi
:>I think the sammidges came from Roland, as after he drew John Coffey
:>to the world that moved on, John was kind of disoriented, so Roland
:>gave him the lunch he picked up from the time he was in new york
:>drawing Ed Koch, who incidentally happens to love New York. So Roland
:>gave John this sandwich, but while the door was open a giant
:>lobstosity cachucked through the door and ate the two littles girls
{snip}
Um, <ahem> well that's _one_ theory.
Thank you for sharing!
` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` ` `
Ostracism is the most sever punishment tool available
to any society. It is comparable to the death penalty
in it's finality, but is less merciful to the victim.
Bernardine
> I think the sammidges came from Roland, as after he drew John Coffey
> to the world that moved on, John was kind of disoriented, so Roland
> gave him the lunch he picked up from the time he was in new york
> drawing Ed Koch, who incidentally happens to love New York. So Roland
> gave John this sandwich, but while the door was open a giant
> lobstosity cachucked through the door and ate the two littles girls
> for lunch, but they got interrupted by bigfoot, and he chased them
> back through the woods, so now there is a lobstrosity wandering around
> the southern wilderness and the mouse was actually a reincarnated
> hindu mystic who for some reason remembered his existence as a human
> and is now living his existence as a mouse to benefit mankind by
> skulking around death rows around the globe. but the sausages in the
> sammidge were spoiled after being in Rolands pocket for so long and
> when John Coffey ate them they didnt agree with him and hes never
> acted the same way since.
HEY PIPER!!
GET REAL!!
I'm sure if Roland was going to send John
Coffey *a little lunch* from the Big Apple
it would be something more like a nice
smoked meat on rye, or maybe a soft bagel
with cream cheese and lox.
Myabe you should give this some
more thought.
Bernardine
Karen Jacobson
>In article <4lg53h$5...@news.one.net>, thep...@one.net wrote:
Snipping again...
>
>
>I'm sure if Roland was going to send John
>Coffey *a little lunch* from the Big Apple
>it would be something more like a nice
>smoked meat on rye, or maybe a soft bagel
>with cream cheese and lox.
At the risk of sounding uncultured and starting a
food thread, what, pray-tell, is a "lox?" Sorry,
but from the name it sounds like something I
may not want to partake in the act of consuming.
>
>
>Bernardine
Karen
Karen Jacobson
djac...@oregontrail.net
http://www.oregontrail.net/~djacobso/k1page.html
bev vincent
: In article <pettigrw-2...@ts1-05.hfx.istar.ca>, pett...@fox.nstn.ca (Bernardine) wrote:
: >
: >I'm sure if Roland was going to send John
: >Coffey *a little lunch* from the Big Apple
: >it would be something more like a nice
: >smoked meat on rye, or maybe a soft bagel
: >with cream cheese and lox.
: At the risk of sounding uncultured and starting a
: food thread, what, pray-tell, is a "lox?" Sorry,
: but from the name it sounds like something I
: may not want to partake in the act of consuming.
That would be smoked salmon.
James Haller
djac...@oregontrail.net (Karen Jacobson) wrote:
>>I'm sure if Roland was going to send John
>>Coffey *a little lunch* from the Big Apple
>>it would be something more like a nice
>>smoked meat on rye, or maybe a soft bagel
>>with cream cheese and lox.
>At the risk of sounding uncultured and starting a
>food thread, what, pray-tell, is a "lox?" Sorry,
>but from the name it sounds like something I
>may not want to partake in the act of consuming.
>Karen
>
Howdy, Karen.
Bagel with cream cheese and lox is not exactly popular in the Great
Pacific Northwest.:-) I did try it once and well....
Anyways you might have unwittingly partaken in the consumption of lox
at some time. Lox is just a kind of smoked salmon.
_________________________
Jim Haller
Olympia,Wa.
Barbara Levy
(spoilers)>, 'djac...@oregontrail.net (Karen Jacobson)' wrote:
>At the risk of sounding uncultured and starting a
>food thread, what, pray-tell, is a "lox?" Sorry,
>but from the name it sounds like something I
>may not want to partake in the act of consuming.
know. <g> Lox is smoked salmon. It sounds disgusting, but a bagel with
lox and cream cheese is a favorite of mine.
--
Barbara Levy
"There's a killer on the road
His brain is squirming like a toad"
- Jim Morrison
Karen Jacobson
>On Apr 23, 1996 18:50:09 in article <Re: Sammidges and a Swee' Pickle - 2DG
>(spoilers)>, 'djac...@oregontrail.net (Karen Jacobson)' wrote:
>
>
>>At the risk of sounding uncultured and starting a
>>food thread, what, pray-tell, is a "lox?" Sorry,
>>but from the name it sounds like something I
>>may not want to partake in the act of consuming.
>
>Jeez, Karen, I thought from all the "Oys" I see you writing, that you would
>know. <g> Lox is smoked salmon. It sounds disgusting, but a bagel with
>lox and cream cheese is a favorite of mine.
>--
>
>Barbara Levy
I have a friend from Jewish descent, and I tend to pick up
little phrases and sayings...pretty soon I'll be typing "Jeez"
on things...
(I also had a friend from Italian descent, and I was stuck in
the "yo" mode for a while...I'm backwards now...)
I was stuck on "eh" from my Canadian friend for a while, too...
Of course, I'm from redneckian descent, so you never know,
I may show up with some real ringers...Yee-haw, y'all.
True story, my co-workers laughed the other day because
I said something "Indian."
:~)
I like smoked salmon, just never knew it was called lox.
Can't stand cream cheese, though.
But I've had a bite of a bagel that fits this description...
So I guess I've eaten it...
Karen (I can't believe I've eaten "lox!")