[A] The Truth: first pass annotations.

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David Chapman

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Nov 1, 2000, 3:11:59 PM11/1/00
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Old Macdonald had a spoiler for TT
'
'
'
'
'
'
E-I-E-I-O
'
'
'
'
'
'
And before that spoiler he put some space
'
'
'
'
'
'
E-I-E-I-O
'
'
'
'
'
'

Not comprehensive, just what I spotted first time through. Nothing too
obvious, nothing that's been said before.

Mr Pin and Mr Tulip: are of course based mainly on Jules Winfield and
Vincent Vega from Pulp Fiction, but the astute observer of attitudes
will note that they also contain a lot of Ron and Ron, Hale and Pace's
gangster duo. Among others, of course.

"The truth shall make ye free": this is indeed a quote; John 8:32, to be
precise.


p.10 - "Egg. Glass.": this is, of course, one of the late Tommy Cooper's
most famous routines that the trainee conjurors are learning.

p.11 - Pin and Tulip enter A-M via the Water Gate. Given the name of
the organisation who later hire them (see later anno), this is oddly
appropriate.

p.13 - "Fung Shooey": this is roughly how 'feng shui" should actually be
pronounced.

p.18 - "The dwarf scanned the letter a while, [...]": and then proceeds
to reproduce it, slightly inaccurately in a different font. OCR at its
most literal.

p.29 - "M-a-k-e-$-$-$-I-n-n-Y-o-u-r-e-S-p-a-r-e-T-y-m-": a popular
classified ad and flyer the world over, but *not* Dibbler inventing
spam. Not only is it not computer-based, but IIRC Hex has been picking
up spam for some time.

p.31 - "The Duke of Sto Helit": is the Bursar merely mistaken, or has
Susan Sto-Helit married?

p.31 - It is confirmed in a novel for the first time that the Bursar is
Dr A.A. Dinwiddie. (It's also later discovered that he is 71 years
old.)

p.45 - "Let's feed the geek.": a popular sideshow attraction at American
carnivals until around the 1960's was the geek in the freakshow. For a
little bit extra admission fee, you could watch him bite the head off a
chicken. Needless to say for anything connected to Pin and Tulip, this
was illegal.

p.51 - Getting beggars to sell newspapers for a commission on the
selling price; Big Issue, anyone?

p.54 - The big purple pills from the horse doctor: from the description
of their effect, these would be horse steroids of the kind much beloved
of some professional body builders.

p.59 - Caravati the painter: likely from Caravaggio.

p.60 - the heads of the Breccia, trolldom's answer to the Mafia, are
called "tons". Like "dons", only heavier.

p.61- "The P'Gi Su dynasty": The Peggy Sue Dynasty? <sigh>

p.68 - "The Committee to Unelect the Patrician": derives from CREEP, the
Campaign to Re-Elect the President. Specifically, to re-elect Nixon;
see? - I told you the Water Gate thing would be explained.

p.77 - "They don't want to know that a man bites a dog": there is a
saying, "'Dog bites man' means nothing, but 'man bites dog' is news".
Vetinari has a different point of view.

p.81 - Arthur Crank: a rather more honest than usual person of the type
who uses a suicide attempt to grab attention. That said, being a serial
suicide-attempter, he'd almsot have to be.

p.85 - The Disorganiser Mk II warranty: yet another swipe at Microsoft.

p.85 - "I'll be back when you open the box again.": something Office
Assistant says when you tell *it* to f**k off.

p.88 - Rocky, the boxer who keeps losing. Zero points for this filmic
reference.

p.104 - the strange pictures taken when using Deep Cave land eels
instead of salamanders: very reminiscent of Kirlian photography,
practitioners of which often purport to be able to take pictures of
things that are only spiritually present or even no longer there.

p.107 - "[On Vimes] but they called him /Mister/.": as in They Call Me
/Mister/ Tibbs!

p.112 - "'Carpet dust got mixed in, I expect,'": in Brian Lumley's
Necroscope novels, there is a method of reanimating the dead from their
ashes using an occult formula and certain chemicals; impure ashes result
in the body of the subject being hideously distorted. The carpet dust
mixing in with Otto's dust and messing up his jacket is very reminiscent
of this.

p.113 - the little bottle of blood (and also Otto's card): puts me in
mind of the small tube of glucose syrup that diabetics usually carry
around, along with an instruction card telling people what to do if they
have a hypo and pass out.

p.117 - the peppermint bomb: ISTR a story where a thief not only
befriends the guard dogs but also makes good his escape from them by
feeding them peppermints. It's a popular theme.

p.120 - Vetinari graduated with full honours from the Assassin's Guild
in 1968. Since the Discworld year seems to match our own, this means
that he's most likely in his early-to-mid fifties somewhere.

p.129 and throughout - the spelling mistakes on the A-MT masthead: not
dissimilar to the aspersions Private Eye cast on the Grauniad^W
Guardian.

p.135 - "[...] what he'd thought was a huge eyeball was revealed as the
largest magnifying glass he'd ever seen [..]": I'm sure this is either
from Young Frankenstein or The Man With Two Brains, but I'm buggered if
I can remember which.

p.142 - The A-M Enquirer, equivalent to the National Enquirer in its
content of entirely fictional news.

p.149 - "I'm gonna get medieval on his arse": a Pulp Fiction reference;
Marcellus Wallace's intended course of action on Zed and his friend.
What I want to know, though, is why "ass" was put into the Queen's Slang
but "mediaeval" was left spelt the scummy Merkin way.

p.154 - "'Pers'n'ly I cut out the middle man.": IOW, Harry wipes his
backside on the A-M Times; a popular threat in the publishing world.

p.176 - "Chasing the Oven Cleaner": if Mr Tulip could ever get any
*real* drugs, he might be Chasing the Dragon - a euphemism for taking
opiates (usually heroin).

p.185 - "ELVES STOLE MY HUSBAND!": aliens don't typically turn up on the
Disc - not and leave, at any rate - so the Enquirer just has to make do.

p.187 - people who say "IMHO": a reference to Usenetters in general, and
if it isn't a snipe at AFPers specifically then I'll eat Pterry's hat.
Remind me to smite him hip, thigh, and a certain other very painful
place next time I'm at a signing. <grin>

p.188 - "HALF MAN, HALF MOTH?": a headline reading "HALF MAN, HALF BAT?"
has been used in connection with Batman at least once.

p.189 - Hobson's Livery Stable: a swift reconciliation of all the facts
reveals that Willie Hobson has built the Disc's first multi-storey horse
park.

p.190 - Deep Bone: Fox Mulder's first mystery informant in The X-Files
was, of course, Deep Throat.

p.195 - Otto's jacket: photographers often wear a flak jacket with many
additional pockets, usually in drab green. God knows where they get
them, as you never seem to see them anywhere else, but Otto has
apparently found out.

p.197-8: people replying to the notice of a reward for finding a dog by
bringing animals that *aren't* a dog: used in a Garfield strip about 15
years ago, and probably before then.

p.210 - Schuschien: is it me, or does this mean "dog shoes?"

p.276 - The Disorganiser recalling what people said by playing its life
backwards: the sound it makes while doing this is the one used in the
movies and on TV when investigative reporters rewind their tape
recorders to review something they previously heard.

--
You've got to bleed a little while you sing
Lest the words don't mean a thing


Kalle Lintinen

unread,
Nov 1, 2000, 4:41:00 PM11/1/00
to

David Chapman wrote:

> Old Macdonald had a spoiler for TT
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> E-I-E-I-O
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> And before that spoiler he put some space
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> E-I-E-I-O
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
>
> Not comprehensive, just what I spotted first time through. Nothing too
> obvious, nothing that's been said before.
>

> p.31 - "The Duke of Sto Helit": is the Bursar merely mistaken, or has
> Susan Sto-Helit married?

Who sais Mort had died?

>
>
> p.31 - It is confirmed in a novel for the first time that the Bursar is
> Dr A.A. Dinwiddie. (It's also later discovered that he is 71 years
> old.)
>

I like'd that bit. It's always humouring to find what people are really
called (I mean their names, OK).

> p.51 - Getting beggars to sell newspapers for a commission on the
> selling price; Big Issue, anyone?

This was used in a previous DW book, too, can't recall which.

> p.85 - The Disorganiser Mk II warranty: yet another swipe at Microsoft.
>

Oh! you really read all the essays on how everything is your fault if the
Microsoft program f'rinstance erases your hard-drive, 'cause I don't ;).

> p.112 - "'Carpet dust got mixed in, I expect,'": in Brian Lumley's
> Necroscope novels, there is a method of reanimating the dead from their
> ashes using an occult formula and certain chemicals; impure ashes result
> in the body of the subject being hideously distorted. The carpet dust
> mixing in with Otto's dust and messing up his jacket is very reminiscent
> of this.

Must go further than this. Don't know the novel date, but The Fly
(1950-something), was already using an old idea, I guess.

> p.135 - "[...] what he'd thought was a huge eyeball was revealed as the
> largest magnifying glass he'd ever seen [..]": I'm sure this is either
> from Young Frankenstein or The Man With Two Brains, but I'm buggered if
> I can remember which.

You mean the one with the funny igor (was it the Baldric-guy or something)
and the other comedian with the frizzly hair (can't recall his name either),
because it would fit in it's plot/thing that I remember (,too).

> p.187 - people who say "IMHO": a reference to Usenetters in general, and
> if it isn't a snipe at AFPers specifically then I'll eat Pterry's hat.
> Remind me to smite him hip, thigh, and a certain other very painful
> place next time I'm at a signing. <grin>

Isn't it popular nowadays on afp to say 'not so humble opinion'? Still, I
agree.

> p.195 - Otto's jacket: photographers often wear a flak jacket with many
> additional pockets, usually in drab green. God knows where they get
> them, as you never seem to see them anywhere else, but Otto has
> apparently found out.

If you're a camper and visit scouting or camping boutiques you'll be sure to
find a bunch of em.

> p.276 - The Disorganiser recalling what people said by playing its life
> backwards: the sound it makes while doing this is the one used in the
> movies and on TV when investigative reporters rewind their tape
> recorders to review something they previously heard.

That's because some tape-players still play the voice even if rewinding. It
is rather comic, nevertheless.

Oh, am I gonna hate you for figuring out that much, or writing up everything
you notice ;) Well I'll have my day, yet.

KalEl

Dave G

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Nov 1, 2000, 5:04:14 PM11/1/00
to

Kalle Lintinen <kalle.l...@tut.fi> wrote in message
news:3A008DEC...@tut.fi...

>
>
> David Chapman wrote:
>
> > Old Macdonald had a spoiler for TT
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > E-I-E-I-O
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > And before that spoiler he put some space
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > E-I-E-I-O
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> >
>
> > p.135 - "[...] what he'd thought was a huge eyeball was revealed as the
> > largest magnifying glass he'd ever seen [..]": I'm sure this is either
> > from Young Frankenstein or The Man With Two Brains, but I'm buggered if
> > I can remember which.
>
> You mean the one with the funny igor (was it the Baldric-guy or something)
> and the other comedian with the frizzly hair (can't recall his name
either),
> because it would fit in it's plot/thing that I remember (,too).
>

ahhh, Young Frankenstein - Mel Brooks' funniest film (ducks...) - Igor was
Marty Feldman and Frizzly-hair-guy was Gene Wilder. Classic film. Though I
seem to recall the Giant Eyeball Gag (tm) was used in Police Squad/Airplane
etc... don't remember it in TMWTB. Hmm. Where did I put that video?


the_peanut_gallery

unread,
Nov 1, 2000, 5:09:43 PM11/1/00
to
On 01-Nov-00, Kalle Lintinen wrote:

> David Chapman wrote:

>> Old Macdonald had a spoiler for TT
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> E-I-E-I-O
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> And before that spoiler he put some space
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> E-I-E-I-O
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '

>> p.112 - "'Carpet dust got mixed in, I expect,'": in Brian Lumley's
>> Necroscope novels, there is a method of reanimating the dead from
>> their ashes using an occult formula and certain chemicals; impure
>> ashes result in the body of the subject being hideously distorted.
>> The carpet dust mixing in with Otto's dust and messing up his jacket
>> is very reminiscent of this.

> Must go further than this. Don't know the novel date, but The Fly
> (1950-something), was already using an old idea, I guess.

Yes, it's an old idea. Also found in Lovecraft's /The Case of Charles
Dexter Ward/, and presumably in many other stories involving a
necromancer or similar Meddling With Things Man Was Not Meant To
Understand. Genre stuff.

What's always impressed me is how vampires are the only creatures exempt
from this law. A careless drop of blood in the wrong place, and they
resuscitate perfectly, along with the robes and widow's-peak hairdo,
and everyone *knows* how dusty properly-Igored crypts are...

Rose Humphrey
--
The opinions expressed in this e-mail are entirely personal
and in no way represent those of my psychiatrist.

Jens Kleine

unread,
Nov 1, 2000, 5:58:12 PM11/1/00
to

"Kalle Lintinen" <kalle.l...@tut.fi> wrote:
>
>
> David Chapman wrote:
>
> > Old Macdonald had a spoiler for TT
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > E-I-E-I-O
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > And before that spoiler he put some space
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > E-I-E-I-O
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> >
> > Not comprehensive, just what I spotted first time through. Nothing too
> > obvious, nothing that's been said before.
> >
> > p.31 - "The Duke of Sto Helit": is the Bursar merely mistaken, or has
> > Susan Sto-Helit married?
>
> Who sais Mort had died?

Haven't read Soul Music? (or seen the video?)
Everything in Soul Music happens because of the death of Lady Ysabell and
Duke Mort Sto Helit right at the beginning.
YES. I COULD HAVE DONE SOMETHING.
Death


Victoria Martin

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Nov 1, 2000, 6:10:37 PM11/1/00
to

On Wed, 1 Nov 2000, David Chapman wrote:

> Old Macdonald had a spoiler for TT
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> E-I-E-I-O
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> And before that spoiler he put some space
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> E-I-E-I-O
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
>

> p.190 - Deep Bone: Fox Mulder's first mystery informant in The X-Files
> was, of course, Deep Throat.
>

Surely Watergate takes precedence over the X-Files (chronologically and in
every other sense?)

Victoria

Sockii

unread,
Nov 1, 2000, 6:36:03 PM11/1/00
to
Kalle Lintinen wrote:
>
> David Chapman wrote:
>
> > Old Macdonald had a spoiler for TT
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > E-I-E-I-O
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > And before that spoiler he put some space
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > E-I-E-I-O
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> >
> > Not comprehensive, just what I spotted first time through. Nothing too
> > obvious, nothing that's been said before.
> >
> > p.31 - "The Duke of Sto Helit": is the Bursar merely mistaken, or has
> > Susan Sto-Helit married?
>
> Who sais Mort had died?

Would it be spoiler if I were to point you in the direction of
Soul Music?


Sockii
--

http://jump.to/Annotate-o-matic
email: wibbl...@fly.to afpguru-ed to Sarah
--------< http://www.crosswinds.net/~wibblehome/afpers.html >--------

Quantum Moth

unread,
Nov 1, 2000, 6:39:00 PM11/1/00
to
<anti...@evildeath.madasafish.com>, aka David Chapman, helped us out by
saying..

> Old Macdonald had a spoiler for TT

And Pulp Fiction. And there's quite a bit of swearing, too. Unavoidable.

> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> E-I-E-I-O
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> And before that spoiler he put some space
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> E-I-E-I-O
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
>
> Not comprehensive, just what I spotted first time through. Nothing too
> obvious, nothing that's been said before.
>
> Mr Pin and Mr Tulip: are of course based mainly on Jules Winfield and
> Vincent Vega from Pulp Fiction, but the astute observer of attitudes
> will note that they also contain a lot of Ron and Ron, Hale and Pace's
> gangster duo. Among others, of course.
>

You've missed a few of the PF refs from the book, and these were my
favourite bits to spot, so here goes...

the continual problems Mr. Tulip has with his cut drugs makes me think
of the whole heroin/cocaine miz-up in PF which results in Mia
Wallace's... uh.. problems.

p.16 "They are the kind of people who call you 'friend'" - Vincent Vega
calls Butch 'friend', to which Buth responds "I'm not your friend,
palooka"; the most tenuous of the refs, probably...

p.45 "'Let's feed the geek'" - okay, was it only me who heard "Bring out
the gimp" at that point?

p.79 "'They call it le sausage-in-le-bun'" - "Royale With Cheese"

p.147 "'A dog has got personality. Personality counts for a lot'" - This
is actually Mr. Slant saying this, but it's a line from Jules Winnfield,
nonetheless.

p.219 "in a flash of dark, he'd seen that it was time to retire." - A
similar reaction that Jules Winnfield has to a flash of light; well,
gunfire.

p.275 The wallet with the pokerwork "Not A Very Nice Person At All" -
not *exactly* the same as Jules's "Bad Mother Fucker" wallet... but
close.

p.279 "'Let us use your "ing" presses or I'll "ing" shoot your "ing"
head "ing" off!' she screamed" - Going out on a limb here to say this is
reminiscent of Yolanda's sudden and out-of-character yelling at the cafe
denizens - "Any of you fucking pricks move and I'll execute every
motherfucking last one of you!"

>
> p.31 - "The Duke of Sto Helit": is the Bursar merely mistaken, or has
> Susan Sto-Helit married?
>

That one got me confused, too. Then again, "is the Bursar merely
mistaken"? is a question with an obvious answer...

>
> p.51 - Getting beggars to sell newspapers for a commission on the
> selling price; Big Issue, anyone?
>

Also their cries - incomprehensible collections of syllables which
somehow came from the name of the publication being hawked... from some
distant time in the past, perhaps...

> p.107 - "[On Vimes] but they called him /Mister/.": as in They Call Me
> /Mister/ Tibbs!

There's a whole essay to be written on the use of the title "Mister" in
this book, but I'm not in the mood at the moment.

> p.135 - "[...] what he'd thought was a huge eyeball was revealed as the
> largest magnifying glass he'd ever seen [..]": I'm sure this is either
> from Young Frankenstein or The Man With Two Brains, but I'm buggered if
> I can remember which.
>

Pretty sure it's Yound Frankenstein.

> p.142 - The A-M Enquirer, equivalent to the National Enquirer in its
> content of entirely fictional news.
>

And "The Sport", of course.

> p.185 - "ELVES STOLE MY HUSBAND!": aliens don't typically turn up on the
> Disc - not and leave, at any rate - so the Enquirer just has to make do.
>

And Elvis, too? A perennial favourite of such rags.

> p.188 - "HALF MAN, HALF MOTH?": a headline reading "HALF MAN, HALF BAT?"
> has been used in connection with Batman at least once.
>

And here was me hoping... :)

> p.190 - Deep Bone: Fox Mulder's first mystery informant in The X-Files
> was, of course, Deep Throat.
>

And that was a reference to the informant in the Watergate scandal,
let's not forget.

> p.195 - Otto's jacket: photographers often wear a flak jacket with many
> additional pockets, usually in drab green. God knows where they get
> them, as you never seem to see them anywhere else, but Otto has
> apparently found out.
>

I saw this as a grey waistcoat, of the type one often sees in 1940's
movies - you know, the press guy in his waistcoat and sleeves with
armbands. And that would tie into the whole period feel of Otto's work -
the accordian-like camera, the "small hod" for the flash..

> p.210 - Schuschien: is it me, or does this mean "dog shoes?"
>

Shoe shine?

And there are others I can't think of... at the moment..

--
thom willis - sc...@mostly.com - madly in love with Corinne!
HALF MAN HALF MOTH? Preparing to fight since 9.2.00
Hold on a minute!
You can't *all* be Spartacus!

Quantum Moth

unread,
Nov 1, 2000, 6:52:47 PM11/1/00
to
<kalle.l...@tut.fi>, aka Kalle Lintinen, helped us out by saying..

>
>
> David Chapman wrote:
>
> > Old Macdonald had a spoiler for TT
> > '
Cripes, and SM, too.

> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > E-I-E-I-O
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > And before that spoiler he put some space
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > E-I-E-I-O
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> >
> > Not comprehensive, just what I spotted first time through. Nothing too
> > obvious, nothing that's been said before.
> >
> > p.31 - "The Duke of Sto Helit": is the Bursar merely mistaken, or has
> > Susan Sto-Helit married?
>
> Who sais Mort had died?
>
Please read Soul Music for the answer to that one.

Or "The start of the argument" to that one.

Have fun!

--
thom willis - sc...@mostly.com - madly in love with Corinne!
HALF MAN HALF MOTH? Preparing to fight since 9.2.00

you're either with us or against us.
or you've wandered in by accident.

Briarpatch

unread,
Nov 2, 2000, 12:44:21 AM11/2/00
to
David Chapman wrote:
>
> Old Macdonald had a spoiler for TT
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> E-I-E-I-O
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> And before that spoiler he put some space
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> E-I-E-I-O
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
>
>
> p.185 - "ELVES STOLE MY HUSBAND!": aliens don't typically turn up on the
> Disc - not and leave, at any rate - so the Enquirer just has to make do.
>

There are at least two references to silver plates
coming from the sky and abducting people, though.
I thought this one was there more for the Elvis
connection.

Morgan Lewis

unread,
Nov 2, 2000, 2:20:35 AM11/2/00
to
Quantum Moth wrote:
>
> <anti...@evildeath.madasafish.com>, aka David Chapman, helped us out
> by saying..
> > Old Macdonald had a spoiler for TT
>
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > E-I-E-I-O
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > And before that spoiler he put some space
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > E-I-E-I-O
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> >
> > p.31 - "The Duke of Sto Helit": is the Bursar merely mistaken, or has
> > Susan Sto-Helit married?
> >
> That one got me confused, too. Then again, "is the Bursar merely
> mistaken"? is a question with an obvious answer...

*Nod.* Considering the Bursar only rarely is aware of what his
surroundings are, I rather doubt he keeps up on current events. In
*his* view of the world, Mort is probably still Duke of Sto-Helit.

>
> > p.190 - Deep Bone: Fox Mulder's first mystery informant in The
> > X-Files was, of course, Deep Throat.
> >
> And that was a reference to the informant in the Watergate scandal,
> let's not forget.
>

Thank you (and thanks to Victoria as well.) I was hoping that in this
long thread somebody had corrected David on that one. :) It would be
scary to think that people could remember CREEP but forget Deep Throat.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Morgan Lewis m...@efn.org mle...@cs.uoregon.edu
The Eclectic Quotes Page: http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~mlewis/

David Chapman

unread,
Nov 1, 2000, 7:14:54 PM11/1/00
to
"the_peanut_gallery" <rose.h...@vnumail.com> wrote in message
news:Yam2NN.AmigaOS.1...@free.fr...

> On 01-Nov-00, Kalle Lintinen wrote:
>
>
>
> > David Chapman wrote:
>
> >> Old Macdonald had a spoiler for TT
> >> '
> >> '
> >> '
> >> '
> >> '
> >> '
> >> E-I-E-I-O
> >> '
> >> '
> >> '
> >> '
> >> '
> >> '
> >> And before that spoiler he put some space
> >> '
> >> '
> >> '
> >> '
> >> '
> >> '
> >> E-I-E-I-O
> >> '
> >> '
> >> '
> >> '
> >> '
> >> '
>
>
> >> p.112 - "'Carpet dust got mixed in, I expect,'": in Brian Lumley's
> >> Necroscope novels, there is a method of reanimating the dead from
> >> their ashes using an occult formula and certain chemicals; impure
> >> ashes result in the body of the subject being hideously distorted.
> >> The carpet dust mixing in with Otto's dust and messing up his
jacket
> >> is very reminiscent of this.
>
> > Must go further than this. Don't know the novel date, but The Fly
> > (1950-something), was already using an old idea, I guess.
>
> Yes, it's an old idea. Also found in Lovecraft's /The Case of Charles
> Dexter Ward/, and presumably in many other stories involving a
> necromancer or similar Meddling With Things Man Was Not Meant To
> Understand. Genre stuff.

Shite, I'd forgotten that Lumley lifted it from Lovecraft. My bad.

David Chapman

unread,
Nov 1, 2000, 7:18:16 PM11/1/00
to
"Quantum Moth" <evil...@team-rocket.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.146ab7ae5...@news.btinternet.com...

> <anti...@evildeath.madasafish.com>, aka David Chapman, helped us out
by
> saying..
> > Old Macdonald had a spoiler for TT
>
> And Pulp Fiction. And there's quite a bit of swearing, too.
Unavoidable.
>
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > E-I-E-I-O
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > And before that spoiler he put some space
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > E-I-E-I-O
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> >

> p.79 "'They call it le sausage-in-le-bun'" - "Royale With Cheese"

I didn't miss this when I read the book, just when I skimmed for
annotations.

> > p.31 - "The Duke of Sto Helit": is the Bursar merely mistaken, or
has
> > Susan Sto-Helit married?
> >
> That one got me confused, too. Then again, "is the Bursar merely
> mistaken"? is a question with an obvious answer...

Not now, it isn't; remember that he is now hallucinating that he is
sane, and so acts perfectly normal (with one small exception).

Terry Pratchett

unread,
Nov 2, 2000, 4:35:50 AM11/2/00
to
In article <t00uhnd...@corp.supernews.com>, David Chapman <antispam@
evildeath.madasafish.com> writes

>Old Macdonald had a spoiler for TT
>'
>'
>'
>'
>'
>'
>E-I-E-I-O
>'
>'
>'
>'
>'
>'
>And before that spoiler he put some space
>'
>'
>'
>'
>'
>'
>E-I-E-I-O
>'
>'
>'
>'
>'
>'
>
>Mr Pin and Mr Tulip: are of course based mainly on Jules Winfield and
>Vincent Vega from Pulp Fiction, but the astute observer of attitudes
>will note that they also contain a lot of Ron and Ron, Hale and Pace's
>gangster duo. Among others, of course.

A point worth mentioning, ref other threads I've seen: Hale and Pace's
'Ron and Ron' worked precisely because people already knew the
archetype.

>
>p.31 - "The Duke of Sto Helit": is the Bursar merely mistaken, or has
>Susan Sto-Helit married?

I wouldn't rsut *anything* the Bursar says, including his own name.


>
>
>p.51 - Getting beggars to sell newspapers for a commission on the
>selling price; Big Issue, anyone?

Er...I'm pretty sure that most of the newspaper sellers I've ever known
effectively got a commission anyway. The whole world of the men who
shout 'Squidaped Oyt!'is very murky -- some of them were quite rich men.

>p.104 - the strange pictures taken when using Deep Cave land eels
>instead of salamanders: very reminiscent of Kirlian photography,
>practitioners of which often purport to be able to take pictures of
>things that are only spiritually present or even no longer there.

Good one. That hadn't actually occurred to me, and I once built a
Kirlian camera...


>
>
>p.117 - the peppermint bomb: ISTR a story where a thief not only
>befriends the guard dogs but also makes good his escape from them by
>feeding them peppermints. It's a popular theme.

I've never come across it. But aniseed was, in real life, used to
distract dogs in the same way.


>
>
>p.135 - "[...] what he'd thought was a huge eyeball was revealed as the
>largest magnifying glass he'd ever seen [..]": I'm sure this is either
>from Young Frankenstein or The Man With Two Brains, but I'm buggered if
>I can remember which.

It may well be both. I'd say this is a cliché -- I'm pretty certain
I've seen it in a Larson cartoon too, amongst others. The gag usually
is that the eye behind the magnifying glass really is huge.

>p.149 - "I'm gonna get medieval on his arse": a Pulp Fiction reference;
>Marcellus Wallace's intended course of action on Zed and his friend.
>What I want to know, though, is why "ass" was put into the Queen's Slang
>but "mediaeval" was left spelt the scummy Merkin way.

Because I prefer it, and it's optional. But ass is a weak, sad word.

>
>p.188 - "HALF MAN, HALF MOTH?": a headline reading "HALF MAN, HALF BAT?"
>has been used in connection with Batman at least once.

Er...someone hasn't been reading their Fortean Times...


>
>p.189 - Hobson's Livery Stable: a swift reconciliation of all the facts
>reveals that Willie Hobson has built the Disc's first multi-storey horse
>park.
>

Hit the target but missed the bull.

>p.190 - Deep Bone: Fox Mulder's first mystery informant in The X-Files
>was, of course, Deep Throat.

And you were doing so well. As we know, I'm the only person in the
universe who uses things that have appeared elsewhere, so the X-files
reference could not possibly have been to the real secret informant in
the Watergate investigation, who used to delivery his information in,
yes, a multi-storey car park...

>
>p.197-8: people replying to the notice of a reward for finding a dog by
>bringing animals that *aren't* a dog: used in a Garfield strip about 15
>years ago, and probably before then.

Dunno. I think Garfield is repetitive rubbish, done by a computer.

--
Terry Pratchett

kw93

unread,
Nov 2, 2000, 8:58:45 AM11/2/00
to
"David Chapman" <anti...@evildeath.madasafish.com> wrote:
> Old Macdonald had a spoiler for TT
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> E-I-E-I-O
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> And before that spoiler he put some space
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> E-I-E-I-O
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> >
> p.31 - It is confirmed in a novel for the first time that the Bursar
is
> Dr A.A. Dinwiddie. (It's also later discovered that he is 71 years
> old.)
>
The Bursar says "That's Dinwiddie with an o" - does that mean that his
name is actually something like Dunwoodie, but because he speaks with
an upper class accent it sounds like Dinwiddie, eg like
pronouncing "house" to rhyme with "mice"?


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Terry Pratchett

unread,
Nov 2, 2000, 9:10:28 AM11/2/00
to
In article <t02bm8g...@corp.supernews.com>, David Chapman <antispam@
evildeath.madasafish.com> writes

>"the_peanut_gallery" <rose.h...@vnumail.com> wrote in message
>news:Yam2NN.AmigaOS.1...@free.fr...
>> On 01-Nov-00, Kalle Lintinen wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >

slightly spoiled space...


>Shite, I'd forgotten that Lumley lifted it from Lovecraft.

AFP, eh? Look, some ideas are just so damn obvious no one has probably
lifted them from *anyone*. Vampire crumbles to dust, you sweep up the
dust, you get the vampire back -- mixed up with all the cat hairs and
breadcrumbs, maybe.

--
Terry Pratchett

ANDREW ROBERT BREEN

unread,
Nov 2, 2000, 12:08:48 PM11/2/00
to
In article <AsXvkHAU...@unseen.demon.co.uk>,
Terry Pratchett <tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk> wrote:

I don't think this is a spoiler, but wothehell, Archie, wothehell..

>AFP, eh? Look, some ideas are just so damn obvious no one has probably
>lifted them from *anyone*. Vampire crumbles to dust, you sweep up the
>dust, you get the vampire back -- mixed up with all the cat hairs and
>breadcrumbs, maybe.

I hope that this one won't prove to be a narrative concept that will
creep back in time through your books. I am far from happy with the
thought of the vampire eaten by Greebo in WA returning (in response to
the canonical drop of blood) as a variety of bloodsucking hairball.
And that's the best it could hope for.

--
Andy Breen ~ PPARC Advanced Research Fellow, Solar Physics Group
http://users.aber.ac.uk/azb/
"The hand that tilts at windmills would rather tilt a glass"
(Joseph Porter, "John O'Gaunt")

dave o'brien

unread,
Nov 2, 2000, 12:53:17 PM11/2/00
to
On Wed, 1 Nov 2000 23:39:00 -0000, Quantum Moth
<evil...@team-rocket.net> wrote:

><anti...@evildeath.madasafish.com>, aka David Chapman, helped us out by
>saying..
>> Old Macdonald had a spoiler for TT
>

>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> E-I-E-I-O
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> And before that spoiler he put some space
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> E-I-E-I-O
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>>

>> p.51 - Getting beggars to sell newspapers for a commission on the
>> selling price; Big Issue, anyone?
>>
>Also their cries - incomprehensible collections of syllables which
>somehow came from the name of the publication being hawked... from some
>distant time in the past, perhaps...

In Cork (and this is going to be tenuous), the sellers of the Evening
Echo used to speak a different language from the rest of humanity. I
would imagine that street-sellers of newspapers would be similar

>> p.107 - "[On Vimes] but they called him /Mister/.": as in They Call Me
>> /Mister/ Tibbs!
>
>There's a whole essay to be written on the use of the title "Mister" in
>this book, but I'm not in the mood at the moment.

Surgeons, despite being M.D.s insist on being referred to as Mister.
This may have military connections. Officers are referred to as
Mister as well. It is possible that the word is being used in an
archaic sense of Squire or 'Man or Authority', somewhat like monsieur
which really means 'my lord' but is now a bit more generic.

>> p.142 - The A-M Enquirer, equivalent to the National Enquirer in its
>> content of entirely fictional news.
>>
>And "The Sport", of course.

The Weekly World News. See later.

>> p.185 - "ELVES STOLE MY HUSBAND!": aliens don't typically turn up on the
>> Disc - not and leave, at any rate - so the Enquirer just has to make do.
>>
>And Elvis, too? A perennial favourite of such rags.
>
>> p.188 - "HALF MAN, HALF MOTH?": a headline reading "HALF MAN, HALF BAT?"
>> has been used in connection with Batman at least once.

The BatBoy is a staple of the Weekly World News, a journal which
explains a lot about some Americans. http://www.weeklywordnews.com.
The Sport will be almost acceptable after the WWN.

>> p.190 - Deep Bone: Fox Mulder's first mystery informant in The X-Files
>> was, of course, Deep Throat.
>>
>And that was a reference to the informant in the Watergate scandal,
>let's not forget.

The Watergate informant is the first Deep Throat, anything else is
just an imitation of this. pTerry has previously expressed disdain
for the X-Files. ("The truth may be out there, but the lies are inside
your head.")

>> p.195 - Otto's jacket: photographers often wear a flak jacket with many
>> additional pockets, usually in drab green. God knows where they get
>> them, as you never seem to see them anywhere else, but Otto has
>> apparently found out.
>>
>I saw this as a grey waistcoat, of the type one often sees in 1940's
>movies - you know, the press guy in his waistcoat and sleeves with
>armbands. And that would tie into the whole period feel of Otto's work -
>the accordian-like camera, the "small hod" for the flash..

Press photogs wear weskits holding lenses'n'stuff. A vital part of
being a photojournalist is the ability to run backwards while changing
lenses, getting your shot and avoiding getting thumped. A vest with
your equipment in it is almost essential.

dave "Been There And Done That."

Christina Waldeck

unread,
Nov 2, 2000, 1:23:01 PM11/2/00
to
Spoiler space
.
.
.
la
la
la
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Terry Pratchett wrote:
>
> In article <t02bm8g...@corp.supernews.com>, David Chapman <antispam@
> evildeath.madasafish.com> writes
(snip)

> >Shite, I'd forgotten that Lumley lifted it from Lovecraft.
>
> AFP, eh? Look, some ideas are just so damn obvious no one has probably
> lifted them from *anyone*. Vampire crumbles to dust, you sweep up the
> dust, you get the vampire back -- mixed up with all the cat hairs and
> breadcrumbs, maybe.

Ewww.
Now *that* must be the REAL horror of undeath...

Perhaps there are vampires on the DW who secretly *beg* to be dead as a
doornail when their head is cut off, and not to reform into The
Breadcrumb Monster. Right inside the dustbin. Ack.

Now, wait! Their ashes reform into a body *and* clothes (apart from the
left sock, which is always, inexplicably, missing)?? Ooooh damn...
undead undies.


Christina

David Chapman

unread,
Nov 2, 2000, 4:25:04 AM11/2/00
to
"Morgan Lewis" <m...@efn.org> wrote in message
news:3A0115C3...@efn.org...

Minor TT spoiler:
l
l
l
l
l
l
l
l
l
l
l
l
l
ll

ll
l
l
l
l
l
l
l
l
l
l

l
l
l
l
ll


> It would be
> scary to think that people could remember CREEP but forget Deep
Throat.

For an American, maybe. CREEP comes up every time someone makes a list
of humourous acronyms/acronyms based on a word, but to most non-Merkins,
who by and large are totally disinterested in the overblown wankfest
that is US politics, Deep Throat is "that guy from the X-Files".

Suzi

unread,
Nov 2, 2000, 2:07:32 PM11/2/00
to
> > Old Macdonald had a spoiler for TT
Re-use of spoiler space... shame to waste it!

> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > E-I-E-I-O
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > And before that spoiler he put some space
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > E-I-E-I-O
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
I'd just like to add to the ongoing discussions (no page refs as it's
all over the place):
"A lie can be halfway round the world before the truth has got its boots
on"... attributed to James Callaghan in my quotations book, but I
suspect it may be even older than that (as most of the best sayings
are).

Suzi
(I wasn't looking for it, but I just happened across it in my quotations
book the week after I read TT)
--
AFP Help? <afp-...@lspace.org> & LSpace Web http://www.lspace.org/
Online Guide at http://www.aber.ac.uk/~cap96/afpguide/afpguide.html
New to Usenet? go to http://psg.com/emily.html [.sig back home]
The Irrelevant page: http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~gidnsuzi/index.html

David Chapman

unread,
Nov 2, 2000, 1:51:17 PM11/2/00
to
"Terry Pratchett" <tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:skX+nCA2...@unseen.demon.co.uk...

> In article <t00uhnd...@corp.supernews.com>, David Chapman
<antispam@
> evildeath.madasafish.com> writes
> >Old Macdonald had a spoiler for TT
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >E-I-E-I-O
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >And before that spoiler he put some space
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >E-I-E-I-O
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >

> >p.104 - the strange pictures taken when using Deep Cave land eels


> >instead of salamanders: very reminiscent of Kirlian photography,
> >practitioners of which often purport to be able to take pictures of
> >things that are only spiritually present or even no longer there.
>
> Good one. That hadn't actually occurred to me, and I once built a
> Kirlian camera...

Subconscious memories at work; you didn't remember the idea, but it was
still there. I do this all the time, usually in quizzes - I may have
amazed you by remembering Late Jim at DWCon98, but not half so much as I
amazed me.

> >
> >p.188 - "HALF MAN, HALF MOTH?": a headline reading "HALF MAN, HALF
BAT?"
> >has been used in connection with Batman at least once.
>
> Er...someone hasn't been reading their Fortean Times...

I stopped when it went newsstand; bloody sell-out merchants.

Simon Callan

unread,
Nov 2, 2000, 2:03:42 PM11/2/00
to
In message <skX+nCA2...@unseen.demon.co.uk>
Terry Pratchett <tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <t00uhnd...@corp.supernews.com>, David Chapman <antispam@
> evildeath.madasafish.com> writes
> >Old Macdonald had a spoiler for TT
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >E-I-E-I-O
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >And before that spoiler he put some space
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >E-I-E-I-O
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >

> > p.189 - Hobson's Livery Stable: a swift reconciliation of all the
> > facts reveals that Willie Hobson has built the Disc's first
> > multi-storey horse park.
> >
> Hit the target but missed the bull.

Personally, I immediately thought of "Hobson's choice", which derives
from Thomas Hobson (c 1544-1631) a Cambridge carrier well known in his
day, who refused to let out any horse, except in its proper order[1].

Simon

[1] Quoting from Brewers dictionary of phrase an fable.

--
http://www.callan.demon.co.uk/simon/

jtull

unread,
Nov 2, 2000, 3:52:26 PM11/2/00
to

"Terry Pratchett" <tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:skX+nCA2...@unseen.demon.co.uk...
> In article <t00uhnd...@corp.supernews.com>, David Chapman <antispam@
> evildeath.madasafish.com> writes
> >Old Macdonald had a spoiler for TT
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >E-I-E-I-O
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >And before that spoiler he put some space
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >E-I-E-I-O
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >'
> >
> >p.189 - Hobson's Livery Stable: a swift reconciliation of all the facts
> >reveals that Willie Hobson has built the Disc's first multi-storey horse
> >park.
> >
> Hit the target but missed the bull.
>

And a reference to the origin of "Hobson's Choice"?

David Underdown

unread,
Nov 2, 2000, 1:35:34 PM11/2/00
to
David Chapman <anti...@evildeath.madasafish.com> wrote in message
news:t00uhnd...@corp.supernews.com...

> Old Macdonald had a spoiler for TT
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> E-I-E-I-O
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> And before that spoiler he put some space
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> E-I-E-I-O
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
>


<snip>

> p.189 - Hobson's Livery Stable: a swift reconciliation of all the facts
> reveals that Willie Hobson has built the Disc's first multi-storey horse
> park.
>

And also a reference (probably) to the origin of the phrase, 'Hobson's
Choice' (i.e. no choice at all). From Hobson's livery stables in Cambridge
(UK that is) - I think - where you got the next available horse.

David Underdown


dragon prince

unread,
Nov 3, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/3/00
to

"David Chapman" <anti...@evildeath.madasafish.com> wrote in message
news:t00uhnd...@corp.supernews.com...
> Old Macdonald had a spoiler for TT

observation made on c comment in J as well.

> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> E-I-E-I-O
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> And before that spoiler he put some space
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> E-I-E-I-O
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
>
> Not comprehensive, just what I spotted first time through.
Nothing too
> obvious, nothing that's been said before.

>
>


> p.10 - "Egg. Glass.": this is, of course, one of the late Tommy
Cooper's
> most famous routines that the trainee conjurors are learning.

well, maybe but its not the first time that Pterry has used that
idiom in a book. ref p227 J Gollancz 1st ed.
'Donkey, mineret,' said lord V.'Minararet, donkey.'
'Just like that?' said a guard


> p.85 - The Disorganiser Mk II warranty: yet another swipe at
Microsoft.

or any other provider of software if your going to look at it. or
gust small print waranties in general

>
> p.149 - "I'm gonna get medieval on his arse": a Pulp Fiction
reference;
> Marcellus Wallace's intended course of action on Zed and his
friend.
> What I want to know, though, is why "ass" was put into the Queen's
Slang
> but "mediaeval" was left spelt the scummy Merkin way.
>

The more obvious ref was the Le sausage in le bun comments...

Anthony W. Youngman

unread,
Nov 3, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/3/00
to
In article <ul930t0aigj9h9ccc...@news.netfront.net>, dave
o'brien <oda...@yahoo.com> writes

>
>Surgeons, despite being M.D.s insist on being referred to as Mister.
>This may have military connections. Officers are referred to as
>Mister as well. It is possible that the word is being used in an
>archaic sense of Squire or 'Man or Authority', somewhat like monsieur
>which really means 'my lord' but is now a bit more generic.
>
As somebody who wanted to be a doctor, and who has studied a bit of
medical history...

Most doctors are not Doctors. It is an affectation. Going back a few
years (well, centuries), the Royal College of Physicians was for
"Doctors of Physick", who were real Doctors (as in "Doctor of
Philosophy"). Their medical knowledge was often (not always) pretty
scanty, and they tended to believe in holism.

The modern profession of doctor is descended from the trade of
Apothecary, and the modern profession of Surgery is descended from the
trade of butcher. The Apothecaries wanted to be seen as the equivalent
of the Doctors of Physick, while the surgeons weren't so ambitious. And
with the increasing scientification of health, the apothecaries won. In
some ways that's a shame - I think a few genuine Doctors of Physick
today might be a very good idea.

But that also explains why in English the word Doctor has changed its
common meaning from "learned man" to "practitioner of medicine". In
Germany, for example, I don't believe a doctor would dare to call
himself Doktor unless he had a PhD - the profession is Artzt.
--
Anthony W. Youngman
wol at thewolery d demon d co d uk | The L-Space Web-http://www.lspace.org/
Ask Christopher Robin where it is. | The Ultimate Terry Pratchett fan site!

If replying by e-mail please mail wol.
Anything else may get missed amongst the spam.

David Chapman

unread,
Nov 3, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/3/00
to
"Victoria Martin" <sann...@ermine.ox.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:Pine.OSF.4.21.001103...@ermine.ox.ac.uk...
> There's no need to get abusive, David, just because _you_ didn't spot
the
> reference. You were happy enough to share your knowledge of the
"overblown
> wankfest that is US politics" when it came to pointing out that Tulip
and
> Pin entered by the water gate, so how come you have such a problem
with
> Deep Throat?

Every time there's an American political scandal you get a
Something-Gate, but you don't get a Deep Part Of The Body informing on
it. The one has passed into common usage, but the other is known only
to those who go out of their way to read the books or watch the movies
[1].


[1] Or were around at the time, I suppose.

Terry Pratchett

unread,
Nov 2, 2000, 5:24:07 PM11/2/00
to
In article <8tsoai$emt$1...@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>, David Underdown
<da...@davidunderdown.freeserve.co.uk> writes

Correct.

And let me say right now that practically everything in the career of
Harry King is fairly based on fact (except for the trolls).
--
Terry Pratchett

Victoria Martin

unread,
Nov 3, 2000, 6:05:44 AM11/3/00
to

On Thu, 2 Nov 2000, David Chapman wrote:

There's no need to get abusive, David, just because _you_ didn't spot the

reference. You were happy enough to share your knowledge of the "overblown


wankfest that is US politics" when it came to pointing out that Tulip and
Pin entered by the water gate, so how come you have such a problem with
Deep Throat?

Victoria

Sakari Lintinen

unread,
Nov 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/4/00
to

"Anthony W. Youngman" wrote:

> In article <ul930t0aigj9h9ccc...@news.netfront.net>, dave
> o'brien <oda...@yahoo.com> writes
> >

> >Surgeons, despite being M.D.s insist on being referred to as Mister.
> >This may have military connections. Officers are referred to as
> >Mister as well. It is possible that the word is being used in an
> >archaic sense of Squire or 'Man or Authority', somewhat like monsieur
> >which really means 'my lord' but is now a bit more generic.
> >

> As somebody who wanted to be a doctor, and who has studied a bit of
> medical history...
>
> Most doctors are not Doctors. It is an affectation. Going back a few
> years (well, centuries), the Royal College of Physicians was for
> "Doctors of Physick", who were real Doctors (as in "Doctor of
> Philosophy"). Their medical knowledge was often (not always) pretty
> scanty, and they tended to believe in holism.
>
> The modern profession of doctor is descended from the trade of
> Apothecary, and the modern profession of Surgery is descended from the
> trade of butcher. The Apothecaries wanted to be seen as the equivalent
> of the Doctors of Physick, while the surgeons weren't so ambitious. And
> with the increasing scientification of health, the apothecaries won. In
> some ways that's a shame - I think a few genuine Doctors of Physick
> today might be a very good idea.
>
> But that also explains why in English the word Doctor has changed its
> common meaning from "learned man" to "practitioner of medicine". In
> Germany, for example, I don't believe a doctor would dare to call
> himself Doktor unless he had a PhD - the profession is Artzt.

I'm sure you know what you mean, which I guess is that in Germany you have
PhDs, MD's and all the others who have doctor's degree. The same goes, at least
as far as I know, in the Nordic countries (don't like to say Scandinavia). In
sweden you have läkare, is in a bit different forms in other nordic languages.
The older people sometimes still talk of doctors (at least in Finland), but
mainly not.

This bit of useless info was brought to you by KalEl


Rasmus Klitgaard-Nielsen

unread,
Nov 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/4/00
to
Sorcha wrote:
>
> spoiler
>
> space
>
> enough
>
> to
>
> keep
>
> this
>
> offscreen
>
> Okay, given that the theme of The Truth is centered around printing and
> newspapers, I though I'd shed some light onto something I spotted about
> the dwarfs working for Gunilla Goodmountain. Basically, other than
> Gunilla herself, three of the four named dwarfs have names approaching
> those of typefonts, named after their 18th or 19th century designers,
> which is somewhat appropriate, given their profession.
*SNIP*
> I do have to admit I *am* having trouble trying to fit the fifth named
> dwarf Dozy (p.211) into all this, though...
>
You don't think that the other six are missing ;)

Anthony Frost

unread,
Nov 4, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/4/00
to
In message <MPG.146e786e9...@News.CIS.DFN.DE>
su...@esatclear.ie (Sorcha ) wrote:

> spoiler
>
>
>
>
> space
>
>
>
>
> enough
>
>
>
>
> to
>
>
>
>
> keep
>
>
>
> this
>
>
>
>
> offscreen
>
> Okay, given that the theme of The Truth is centered around printing and
> newspapers, I though I'd shed some light onto something I spotted about
> the dwarfs working for Gunilla Goodmountain. Basically, other than
> Gunilla herself, three of the four named dwarfs have names approaching
> those of typefonts,

I'm sure I've got a Gutenberg font somewhere, but I suspect that's not
what is intended by Gunillas family name... :-)

Anthony

--
| 99% of accidents occur in the home.... |
| |
| ...Stay safe, go out lots. |

Sockii

unread,
Nov 4, 2000, 7:51:17 PM11/4/00
to
about TT MP FoC

Sorcha wrote:
>
> spoiler
>
> space
>
> enough
>
> to
>
> keep
>
> this
>
> offscreen
>

<snip>


> I do have to admit I *am* having trouble trying to fit the fifth named
> dwarf Dozy (p.211) into all this, though...

In MP (why yes! I did re-read it recently. However did you
guess?) there is a reference to Dozy. A relative? maybe Dozy is a
common name =)

pp. 324 (re: Hihohiho)

[angry overseer:] "-just _one_ more Hihohiho out of you lot and
it's double-headed axe time, OK? We're _dwarfs_ godsdammit. So
act like them. And that includes you, Dozy!"


which leads to another point:

In FoC (that I've lost my copy of) I misremember that Carrot,
Cuddy, Librarian started Hihohiho-ing. Carrot attributed to his
dwarf-ish blood. (Something about "I can't help it. It's in my
blood.") Which seems to indicate that 'Hihohiho' is a historic
mining song.


Sockii
--
http://jump.to/Annotate-o-matic
email: wibbl...@fly.to afpguru-ed to Sarah
15 mins of fame! Send me your URL for the afpers' homepages directory
--------< http://www.crosswinds.net/~wibblehome/afpers.html >--------

Melusine

unread,
Nov 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/5/00
to
In article <t06mfbo...@corp.supernews.com>,

"David Chapman" <anti...@evildeath.madasafish.com> wrote:
> "Victoria Martin" <sann...@ermine.ox.ac.uk> wrote in message
> news:Pine.OSF.4.21.001103...@ermine.ox.ac.uk...
> >

> > >

> > There's no need to get abusive, David, just because _you_ didn't spot


> the
> > reference. You were happy enough to share your knowledge of the
> "overblown
> > wankfest that is US politics" when it came to pointing out that Tulip
> and
> > Pin entered by the water gate, so how come you have such a problem
> with
> > Deep Throat?
>

> Every time there's an American political scandal you get a
> Something-Gate, but you don't get a Deep Part Of The Body informing on
> it. The one has passed into common usage, but the other is known only
> to those who go out of their way to read the books or watch the movies
> [1].

True regarding your "gate" line, but all those references arise from the
original Watergate scandal which arguably changed American attitudes
towards politics forever.

Watergate is a very common reference worldwide - it's a significant
marker not only in political history, but also in journalistic history
and in US culture. "Deep Throat", while not quite as well known as the
phrase "Watergate" is known to anyone with even a passing familiarity
with the subject. The relatively recent death of Nixon brought the whole
subject back up again in obituaries and such like.

Despite your own perspective David, I think a poll of non-Merkins would
produce a far higher "political scandal" reaction than an "informant n
the X-Files".

> [1] Or were around at the time, I suppose.

I was aged two at the time, and certainly not following US political
scnadals, yet I automatically got the reference to Watergate and would
have done so long before I started working as a journalist.

Melusine

Bj

unread,
Nov 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/5/00
to
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> E-I-E-I-O
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> And before that spoiler he put some space
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
>
> Mr Pin and Mr Tulip: are of course based mainly on Jules Winfield and
> Vincent Vega from Pulp Fiction, but the astute observer of attitudes
> will note that they also contain a lot of Ron and Ron, Hale and Pace's
> gangster duo. Among others, of course.

I can see a similarity between Mr Tulip and a character called "Mr Petal" in
William Gibson's third cyberspace novel, "Mona Lisa Overdrive"

> p.210 - Schuschien: is it me, or does this mean "dog shoes?"

...or is it just meant to be pronounced like "shoeshine"...

Bj

ed

unread,
Nov 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/5/00
to
The noble "Bj" <suns...@nospam.net.ntl.com> spake on the day of Sun, 5
Nov 2000 21:12:07 -0000:

>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> E-I-E-I-O
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> And before that spoiler he put some space
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>>
>> Mr Pin and Mr Tulip: are of course based mainly on Jules Winfield and
>> Vincent Vega from Pulp Fiction, but the astute observer of attitudes
>> will note that they also contain a lot of Ron and Ron, Hale and Pace's
>> gangster duo. Among others, of course.
>
>I can see a similarity between Mr Tulip and a character called "Mr Petal" in
>William Gibson's third cyberspace novel, "Mona Lisa Overdrive"

You can go back further to "Diamonds are Forever" to the two camp
assassins who go around closing the Diamond Smuggling Ring, Mr. Kidd and
Mr. Wint.

The Big and Little thug combination is not a New one

ed
--
edh...@equus.demon.co.uk | Dragons Rescued | _////
http://www.equus.demon.co.uk/ | Maidens Slain | o_/o ///
For devilbunnies, Diplomacy, RPGs, | Quests P.O.A. | __\ ///__
Science-Fiction and other stuff | | <*>

Noel Foster

unread,
Nov 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/5/00
to
Sorcha went to the 'fridge and arranged the magnets to say:

> >
> > > spoiler
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > space
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > enough
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > to
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > keep
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > this
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > offscreen
> > >
> [2] Johannes Gutenberg is credited with inventing the printing press in
> 15th century Germany, with a hand press, where you set the letters into
> a form, roll ink over them, and press it onto a sheet of blank paper. He
> also had to flog his press and types to a rival printer to pay off his
> debts.

My encyclopaedias (ae?) emphasise the moveable type aspect of his
printing method.

Noel.

--
It's early retirement. It affects the legs, you know.
Hyacinth Bucket.

Terry Pratchett

unread,
Nov 5, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/5/00
to
In article <54kN5.48584$hk2.1...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>, Bj <

>
>I can see a similarity between Mr Tulip and a character called "Mr Petal" in
>William Gibson's third cyberspace novel, "Mona Lisa Overdrive"

Well? Did you have a point?
--
Terry Pratchett

Richard Eney

unread,
Nov 6, 2000, 12:00:51 AM11/6/00
to
In article <t00uhnd...@corp.supernews.com>,

David Chapman <anti...@evildeath.madasafish.com> wrote:
>Old Macdonald had a spoiler for TT
>'
>'
>'
>'
>'
>'
>E-I-E-I-O
>'
>'
>'
>'
>'
>'
>And before that spoiler he put some space
>'
>'
>'
>'
>'
>'
>E-I-E-I-O
>'
>'
>'
>'
>'
>'
>
<snip>
>p.81 - Arthur Crank: a rather more honest than usual person of the type
>who uses a suicide attempt to grab attention. That said, being a serial
>suicide-attempter, he'd almsot have to be.

His name can be abbreviated to "A. Crank".

>p.188 - "HALF MAN, HALF MOTH?": a headline reading "HALF MAN, HALF BAT?"
>has been used in connection with Batman at least once.

The "Mothman" story (large creature seen by several people) was reported
by the regular newspapers at the time; it has been written up by John Keel
in the Fortean Times. I think it was back in the 1960s but I could be
totally off on that date.

=Tamar

incab...@my-deja.com

unread,
Nov 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/6/00
to
In article <t00uhnd...@corp.supernews.com>,
"David Chapman" <
anti...@evildeath.madasafish.com> wrote:
> Old Macdonald had a spoiler for TT
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> E-I-E-I-O
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> And before that spoiler he put some space
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> E-I-E-I-O
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
> '
>
> Not comprehensive, just what I spotted first time through. Nothing too
> obvious, nothing that's been said before.
>
Anyone with a passing knowledge of typography
couldn't possibly miss the names of the dwarfs
Boddony and Caslong, as in the two famous fonts
Bodoni and Caslon. I just bet some of the other
(unnamed) printers had names like, for instance:
Gorramond, Bimbo, Zafp, Jill, Beskervil.

Or as Otto (who is rather Gothic...) would have put
it: "Akzidenz do happen".

Grotesque, ain't it?


ogre

incab...@my-deja.com

unread,
Nov 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/6/00
to

Melusine

unread,
Nov 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/6/00
to
On Sat, 4 Nov 2000 23:16:19 -0600, su...@esatclear.ie
(Sorcha ) wrote:

>Anthony Frost wrote...


>> In message <MPG.146e786e9...@News.CIS.DFN.DE>
>> su...@esatclear.ie (Sorcha ) wrote:
>>

>> > spoiler
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > space
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > enough
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > to
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > keep
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > this
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > offscreen
>> >

>> > Okay, given that the theme of The Truth is centered around printing and
>> > newspapers, I though I'd shed some light onto something I spotted about
>> > the dwarfs working for Gunilla Goodmountain. Basically, other than
>> > Gunilla herself, three of the four named dwarfs have names approaching
>> > those of typefonts,
>>
>> I'm sure I've got a Gutenberg font somewhere, but I suspect that's not
>> what is intended by Gunillas family name... :-)
>>
>

>Arf, that went *right* over me head. No fonts, just a printing press,
>though. [2]
>
>And yes, colour printing is indeed carried out by seperating the four
>colours of ink as Otto did (black, magenta, yellow and cyan), although
>generally using a plate for each colour, which are then printed one over
>another onto the sheet. [1] Although I'm not convinced that warrants an
>annotation, really.

I can place Dozy. He's a colleague of mine...

Other stuff that's not really annotations as such, just
standard newspaper jargon:

The spike, which was always in use in newspapers, to the
extent that even now, you "spike" a file (into a special
folder called "spiked" at my office!);

The stroppy printers, so long a late and unlamented part of
Fleet Street, not least for their tendency to walk out at
the drop of a hat;

The stone they do their layout on - even now, sub-editors
refer to a story being "off stone" by a certain hour,
meaning it's gone to press;

I don't think it was specifically mentioned in the book, but
if a story doesn't fit, you still "lead it out", from the
days when typesetters inserted small slugs of lead between
words and letters to make a story fit the space;

And of course, Mr Tulip's death was due to that now dead
printing process "hot metal"...

BTW, thinking in headlines is perfectly true.

I have a small rant based on a particular scene in "Tomorrow
Never Dies" on that subject.

Mostly though, TT has very few production-specific jokes -
they're usually a bit more generic than that.

Mel
--
\\\\ "You do it, I can't be buggered"|
\\\\\__, clanw...@bigfoot.com - Defending the|
\\\\\^c rights of apathetic hedgehogs since '00|

keith edgerley

unread,
Nov 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/6/00
to
incab...@my-deja.com wrote:

> In article <t00uhnd...@corp.supernews.com>,
> "David Chapman" <
> anti...@evildeath.madasafish.com> wrote:
> > Old Macdonald had a spoiler for TT
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > E-I-E-I-O
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > And before that spoiler he put some space
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > E-I-E-I-O
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> >
> > Not comprehensive, just what I spotted first time through. Nothing too
> > obvious, nothing that's been said before.
> >
> Anyone with a passing knowledge of typography
> couldn't possibly miss the names of the dwarfs
> Boddony and Caslong, as in the two famous fonts
> Bodoni and Caslon. I just bet some of the other
> (unnamed) printers had names like, for instance:
> Gorramond, Bimbo, Zafp, Jill, Beskervil.
>
> Or as Otto (who is rather Gothic...) would have put
> it: "Akzidenz do happen".
>
> Grotesque, ain't it?
>

More like a Univers(al) truth, if I may be so bold.
Anyway, it takes all sorts to make a world...


--
Keith
owe war sint verswunden
alliu miniu jar

Terry Pratchett

unread,
Nov 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/6/00
to
In article <0b4d0tc3hhp5l98b5...@4ax.com>, Melusine
<ab...@clanwilliam.freeuk.com> writes

>
>Mostly though, TT has very few production-specific jokes -
>they're usually a bit more generic than that.
>
Ah, there are fewer and fewer of us who can remember the days of hot
metal...
--
Terry Pratchett

Gideon.

unread,
Nov 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/6/00
to
In article <54kN5.48584$hk2.1...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>,

"Bj" <suns...@nospam.net.ntl.com> wrote:
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > E-I-E-I-O
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > And before that spoiler he put some space
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> >
> > Mr Pin and Mr Tulip: are of course based mainly on Jules Winfield
and
> > Vincent Vega from Pulp Fiction, but the astute observer of attitudes
> > will note that they also contain a lot of Ron and Ron, Hale and
Pace's
> > gangster duo. Among others, of course.
>
> I can see a similarity between Mr Tulip and a character called "Mr
Petal" in
> William Gibson's third cyberspace novel, "Mona Lisa Overdrive"

And if you look carefully enough, you can see something that looks
*exactly* like a horribly deformed sheep in that cloud over there...

Like the man says, the duo of 'big dumb one' and 'smart small one' has
been around a *lot* longer than the likes of Leiber and Gibson.

Heck, what about the version of the Book of Samuel that never got
printed; the one where David and Goliath patched up their differences
and went on a crime spree through Judaea for Saul's gold...?

You think Tarantino actually made that part of Pulp Fiction up -
complete with all the Biblical references?

...naaah.

He simply copied it out of the lost version of the Bible. And added a
retro soundtrack, of course.

Or doesn't your copy of the Missing Chapter tell you that?

Gideon.

("Okay man, it was a miracle, can we leave now?")

Mary MacTavish

unread,
Nov 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/6/00
to
Terry said:
>> Ah, there are fewer and fewer of us who can remember the days of hot
>> metal...
>
On Mon, 6 Nov 2000 14:57:13 +0100, Patrick Dersjant
<pat...@lspace.org> said:

>Though I cannot remember having heard the term before in this context[0],
>the naming of a certain HTML editor now begins to make sense to me. A
>well thought out name, though I doubt many people will have spotted that
>reference.
>
Then I, who haven't really introduced myself properly, interject:

I am a writer-editor at a classic dotcom in the Silicon Valley. I was
13 when my "senior editor" was born.

I mentioned, recently, "I learned to cut and paste when it was a
literal phrase."

He asked what I meant.

"I first learned to cut and paste with an xacto knife, waxed galleys,
and rubber cement."

"Ooooh, wow. Is that how they did it?" I had to explain. He didn't
know. I felt tragically old, at 37.

We won't go into how I felt when I found out he has a bachelor's
degree in English, but responded, "That's some poet or something,
right?" when I mentioned Robert Burns.

But now I'm *really* digressing from topic :)

.
Mary MacTavish
http://www.prado.com/~iris

Jacqui

unread,
Nov 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/6/00
to
Mary MacTavish wrote:
(adventures in printing)

> I mentioned, recently, "I learned to cut and paste when it was a
> literal phrase."
>
> He asked what I meant.
>
> "I first learned to cut and paste with an xacto knife, waxed galleys,
> and rubber cement."
>
> "Ooooh, wow. Is that how they did it?" I had to explain. He didn't
> know. I felt tragically old, at 37.

Will it make you feel any better if I tell you that I learned how to do
this in 1989 when I was 17, DTP[1] still being viewed with suspicion at
my college? It hadn't died out entirely at that point, although I
suspect it now has - I put together a newsletter each week using
MSPublisher [2] and I'd hate to have to do it manually (but at least I
know I once could). :)

Jac

[1] Pagemaker 3, I think we were using... once a week for 90 minutes.
[2] grumble grumble they won't let me have Quark grumble grumble

Melusine

unread,
Nov 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/6/00
to
In article <3A06E66...@mireille1.freeserve.co.uk>,

Jacqui <Jac...@mireille1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> Mary MacTavish wrote:
> (adventures in printing)
> > I mentioned, recently, "I learned to cut and paste when it was a
> > literal phrase."
> >
> > He asked what I meant.
> >
> > "I first learned to cut and paste with an xacto knife, waxed galleys,
> > and rubber cement."
> >
> > "Ooooh, wow. Is that how they did it?" I had to explain. He didn't
> > know. I felt tragically old, at 37.
>
> Will it make you feel any better if I tell you that I learned how to do
> this in 1989 when I was 17, DTP[1] still being viewed with suspicion at
> my college? It hadn't died out entirely at that point, although I
> suspect it now has - I put together a newsletter each week using
> MSPublisher [2] and I'd hate to have to do it manually (but at least I
> know I once could). :)

I was taught it in 1996 (at the age of 24) on the Uni of Westminster's
part-time MA course. Counting headlines, drawing up dummies, the works.

Even though I now use computers at work, they're incredibly useful skills
to have - particularly on our antiquated system.

> [1] Pagemaker 3, I think we were using... once a week for 90 minutes.
> [2] grumble grumble they won't let me have Quark grumble grumble


Pagemaker? You were lucky! We got two classes in a full semester on
"subbing on a computer" and it used SimpleText on a Mac.

As for training on the systems at work - I got sent over to another
department and told "these are the pages, lay them out, will you?"

Mel

Louann Miller

unread,
Nov 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/6/00
to
On Mon, 06 Nov 2000 17:12:05 +0000, Jacqui
<Jac...@mireille1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:

>Mary MacTavish wrote:
>(adventures in printing)
>> I mentioned, recently, "I learned to cut and paste when it was a
>> literal phrase."
>>
>> He asked what I meant.
>>
>> "I first learned to cut and paste with an xacto knife, waxed galleys,
>> and rubber cement."

>Will it make you feel any better if I tell you that I learned how to do


>this in 1989 when I was 17, DTP[1] still being viewed with suspicion at
>my college? It hadn't died out entirely at that point, although I
>suspect it now has - I put together a newsletter each week using
>MSPublisher [2] and I'd hate to have to do it manually (but at least I
>know I once could). :)

I did the same thing on a local weekly newspaper as a college intern
the summer of, hmm, probably 1987. All wax, not rubber cement. And
several of the local suburban papers were continuing to do hand layout
for at least few years after, because every time I'd see their
classified pages I'd automatically start finding the off-line bits.

Louann


Jenny Radcliffe

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Nov 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/6/00
to
> Jacqui <Jac...@mireille1.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> [2] grumble grumble they won't let me have Quark grumble grumble

You *want* Quark? It's the bane of my existence ... come back Freelance, all
is forgiven! Or CorelXara ... frankly, most of the time I seem to be able to
do what I want more easily and effectively with Word, which doesn't crash my
computer.


--
"I like chasing up Jackie Bettess" Robin Hall

MEG

unread,
Nov 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/6/00
to
David Chapman wrote in message ...

>Old Macdonald had a spoiler for TT
>'
>'
>'
>'
>'
>'
>E-I-E-I-O
>'
>'
>'
>'
>'
>'
>And before that spoiler he put some space
>'
>'
>'
>'
>'
>'
>E-I-E-I-O

>'
>'
>'
>'
>'
>'
>
>Mr Pin and Mr Tulip: are of course based mainly on Jules Winfield and
>Vincent Vega from Pulp Fiction, but the astute observer of attitudes
>will note that they also contain a lot of Ron and Ron, Hale and
Pace's
>gangster duo. Among others, of course.


I'm not one for annotations as a general rule and this isn't really
one, but could I be the only person who caught 'mself humming the
Stealer's Wheel tune "Stuck in the Middle With You" from that other
Tarrantino classic - Reservoir Dogs? Or am I just as disturbed by that
film as I suspected?

Especially with that Mr Pin(k).

Best,
- MEG

* "2002: A Discworld Odyssey" * August 16th-19th, 2002 -
* Web: http://www.dwcon.org/ * Email: in...@dwcon.org *

Kincaid

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Nov 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/6/00
to
In article <54kN5.48584$hk2.1...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>,
Bj <suns...@nospam.net.ntl.com> wrote:
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > E-I-E-I-O
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > And before that spoiler he put some space
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> > '
> >

> > p.210 - Schuschien: is it me, or does this mean "dog shoes?"

> ...or is it just meant to be pronounced like "shoeshine"...

In many detective and/or investigative reporter movies set way back when
the world was Black And White [1] the shoe shine boy knew everything, as
he listened to what his clients talked about, and thus the cop/reporter
used him as a valuable source.

Or, it could be an Ityyorshu joke...

[1] Yes it was, I've seen it on the telly!

--
Kincaid Labs
Tampering in God's domain since 1975

Gideon Hallett

unread,
Nov 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/6/00
to
On Wed, 1 Nov 2000 23:39:00 -0000, Quantum Moth
<evil...@team-rocket.net> shared with us:

><anti...@evildeath.madasafish.com>, aka David Chapman, helped us out by
>saying..


>> Old Macdonald had a spoiler for TT
>

>And Pulp Fiction. And there's quite a bit of swearing, too. Unavoidable.


>
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> E-I-E-I-O
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> And before that spoiler he put some space
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '

>> E-I-E-I-O
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>> '
>>
>> Not comprehensive, just what I spotted first time through. Nothing too
>> obvious, nothing that's been said before.
>>

<snip>

>p.279 "'Let us use your "ing" presses or I'll "ing" shoot your "ing"
>head "ing" off!' she screamed" - Going out on a limb here to say this is
>reminiscent of Yolanda's sudden and out-of-character yelling at the cafe
>denizens - "Any of you fucking pricks move and I'll execute every
>motherfucking last one of you!"

And this is purely a speculative thought, you dig, but
'Saccharissa' would (I guess) mean 'sweetness' - similar to
'Honeybunny', yesno?

Gideon.


--
|==diog...@freeuk.com=(XNFP)====================== \\\\ waaa! |
| Given a little bit of thrust, most hedgehogs ___\\\\\\____o |
| fly just fine. Landing, however... --===***>>X___\\\\\\^c/ |

David Underdown

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Nov 6, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/6/00
to
Melusine <ab...@clanwilliam.freeuk.com> wrote in message
news:0b4d0tc3hhp5l98b5...@4ax.com...
>
<snip> spoiler space restored


1


2

3

4


5


> The stroppy printers, so long a late and unlamented part of
> Fleet Street, not least for their tendency to walk out at
> the drop of a hat;
>

Except on the Disc we have the engraver's guild (Print Unions?) trying
to break the newspaper rather than Murdoch and the move to Wapping from
Fleet Street.

David

Paul Wilkins

unread,
Nov 6, 2000, 6:13:48 AM11/6/00
to
Uwe Milde wrote
> 'Shoe Chien', as a mix of English and French, or 'Shoeshine' as also
> somewhat surprising (to me) treatment of the Umlaut in "Schüschien"
> seems to me more far-fetched.
> Where's the joke? There's not a obvious reference to dogs or shoes in
> context. Maybe it's just a made-up name that's supposed to have the
> right 'ring' to it. Not everything _has_ to be an annotation, you know?
> Or it is one, but has gone over our collective heads, so far.

At a stretch I was thinking about evening dress and being well polished.

Paul Wilkins


Quantum Moth

unread,
Nov 6, 2000, 9:21:02 PM11/6/00
to
<diog...@freeuk.com>, aka Gideon Hallett, helped us out by saying..

> On Wed, 1 Nov 2000 23:39:00 -0000, Quantum Moth
> <evil...@team-rocket.net> shared with us:
>
> ><anti...@evildeath.madasafish.com>, aka David Chapman, helped us out by
> >saying..
> >> Old Macdonald had a spoiler for TT
> >
> >And Pulp Fiction. And there's quite a bit of swearing, too. Unavoidable.
> >
> >> '
> >> '
> >> '
> >> '
> >> '
> >> '
> >> E-I-E-I-O
> >> '
> >> '
> >> '
> >> '
> >> '
> >> '
> >> And before that spoiler he put some space
> >> '
> >> '
> >> '
> >> '
> >> '
> >> '
> >> E-I-E-I-O
> >> '
> >> '
> >> '
> >> '
> >> '
> >> '
> >>
> >> Not comprehensive, just what I spotted first time through. Nothing too
> >> obvious, nothing that's been said before.
> >>
>
> <snip>
>
> >p.279 "'Let us use your "ing" presses or I'll "ing" shoot your "ing"
> >head "ing" off!' she screamed" - Going out on a limb here to say this is
> >reminiscent of Yolanda's sudden and out-of-character yelling at the cafe
> >denizens - "Any of you fucking pricks move and I'll execute every
> >motherfucking last one of you!"
>
> And this is purely a speculative thought, you dig, but
> 'Saccharissa' would (I guess) mean 'sweetness' - similar to
> 'Honeybunny', yesno?
>
Ahaaaa!

Should've worked that one out. Mind you, I forgot which one was Pumpkin
and which was Honeybunny.

While we're on the subject, did anyone else want to slap Sacharissa for
most of the book, or was that just me? Don't get me wrong, I'm not
advocating violence towards women, just fictional characters with the,
personality of a grapefruit. And not even an amusingly-shaped one.

--
thom willis - sc...@mostly.com
Corinne's Worse Half - Preparing to fight since 9.2.00
don't make me come in there after you.

Jacqui

unread,
Nov 7, 2000, 3:00:00 AM11/7/00