Only You Can Save Mankind Questions
liselle
questions i thought would be nice to discuss.
1- could johnny have an eating disorder? he doesnt eat properly, refuses
food from Yo-less's mother and passes out from malnutrition....
2- why is gobi software's address in tibet?
3- seeing as johnny's mother is absent (you only hear of her in teh book) is
the captain making up for that in some way? for example telling him he
should be eating more greens etc. the captain also shows pictures of her
children, flies the mothership, and is fighting in the mother of all
battles.
4- could the big questions of whose on whose side between bigmac and yo-less
be related to the trying times and johnny being stuck in the middle with his
parents? esp johnnysline 'what colour are we on the screen'
love velvet ;)
J.T. Wenting
> food from Yo-less's mother and passes out from malnutrition....
>
accept food from others to hide the fact.
> 2- why is gobi software's address in tibet?
>
That's about as far away as you can get from England in this modern day
world.
> 3- seeing as johnny's mother is absent (you only hear of her in teh book)
is
> the captain making up for that in some way? for example telling him he
> should be eating more greens etc. the captain also shows pictures of her
> children, flies the mothership, and is fighting in the mother of all
> battles.
>
The alien species is matriarchal. This is probably courtship behaveour,
trying to get the support of a male she needs.
liselle
"J.T. Wenting" <jwen...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:987075489.27828....@news.demon.nl...
> > 1- could johnny have an eating disorder? he doesnt eat properly, refuses
> > food from Yo-less's mother and passes out from malnutrition....
> >
> Check his home-situation. He doesn't get good food at home, but refuses to
> accept food from others to hide the fact.
p49
They all looked at Johnny, who'd hardly touched his hamburger...
even when there is food in front of him, he doesnt seem to eat it. sure,
theres a pride thing there with not accepting food from other ppl, but he is
still not eating properly, and he is aware of it.
>
> > 2- why is gobi software's address in tibet?
> >
> That's about as far away as you can get from England in this modern day
> world.
>
and thats the only reason? i was thinking (a bit far-fetched) that the
tibetan are prisoners of war and practice passive resistance using there
bodies as examples for what is happening to them, ie fasting. Johnny
realises that he is a pow in trying times and perhaps he is doing the same
thing (even if he is consious of it or not).
p172
He was going to get talked at a lot, but at least that would make a change.
this after he passes out from malnutrition, and notices he has made a
difference in the situation he has no control over in trying times
> > 3- seeing as johnny's mother is absent (you only hear of her in teh
book)
> is
> > the captain making up for that in some way? for example telling him he
> > should be eating more greens etc. the captain also shows pictures of her
> > children, flies the mothership, and is fighting in the mother of all
> > battles.
> >
> The alien species is matriarchal. This is probably courtship behaveour,
> trying to get the support of a male she needs.
>
i dont see how being motherly (telling someone what the need to eat) is
courtship behaviour. and by the sounds of it the males dont really do much.
kind of like drones in a hive. good for mating and nothing else... apart
from the odd one to transgress...
which brings up another point.. what does teh novel say about sexism? it
brings it into the light, talks about it openly, but in the end it is still
johnny who has to do everthing despite sigorney showing more talent... . to
me that sort of endorses traditional roles of masculine/feminine
behaviour... also teh only male to trasgress screewee tradition ends up
being evil
velvet ;)
Terry Pratchett
<margravi...@hotmail.com> writes
>Ive just finished reading only you can save mankind and had a couple of
>questions i thought would be nice to discuss.
>
>1- could johnny have an eating disorder? he doesnt eat properly, refuses
>food from Yo-less's mother and passes out from malnutrition....
His home life isn't good, he's not getting properly fed, but he doesn't
want to advertise this. I didn't think it was malnutrition as much as a
combination in insufficient food and general exhaustion.
>
>2- why is gobi software's address in tibet?
Ooo! Oooo! I know this one! Please miss! Oooo!
The address is a highly *mystical* one. I'm surprised abp hasn't rooted
it out. Check out the names. Very strange place for some software to
originate , but maybe not if that software is designed to change your
mind...
>
>3- seeing as johnny's mother is absent (you only hear of her in teh book) is
>the captain making up for that in some way? for example telling him he
>should be eating more greens etc. the captain also shows pictures of her
>children, flies the mothership, and is fighting in the mother of all
>battles.
>
Nice interpretation. On the other hand, she might just be a nice
person flying a big ship. Or we could both be right.
>4- could the big questions of whose on whose side between bigmac and yo-less
>be related to the trying times and johnny being stuck in the middle with his
>parents? esp johnnysline 'what colour are we on the screen'
As above. I do know that, for me, the plot of this book flowed very
easily...mind you, I was very angry when I wrote it...
--
Terry Pratchett
Charles A Lieberman
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=<3ad5...@news.iprimus.com.au>
>i dont see how being motherly (telling someone what the need to eat) is
>courtship behaviour.
My GF is constantly after me to eat enough, so it's certainly not
inconsistent with...well, we've been going out long enough that I'm not
sure we're courting anymore.
--
Charles A. Lieberman Brooklyn, NY, USA
AFP Code 2.0 AGo/Li-US d(--) s: a-- U++>+ R F++ h- P! OS--:- C++ M-
!pp L(+) Ia W- c B Cn CC? PT--->++ Pu78 !5 !X MT++ e+>++ r y+* end
http://calieber.tripod.com/home.html cali...@bigfoot.com
Tom Ferguson
margravi...@hotmail.com wrote on 12/4/01 13:02:
>
> which brings up another point.. what does teh novel say about sexism? it
> brings it into the light, talks about it openly, but in the end it is still
> johnny who has to do everthing despite sigorney showing more talent... . to
> me that sort of endorses traditional roles of masculine/feminine
> behaviour... also teh only male to trasgress screewee tradition ends up
> being evil
>
Surely it is a reversal of the usual sexist stereotypes. Johnny is male
but cares a lot about people and prefers nonviolent solutions to 'real' (?)
problems whereas Sigorney (female) is wrapped up in herself and gungho for
violent solutions to problems.
>
Eric Jarvis
> Ive just finished reading only you can save mankind and had a couple of
> questions i thought would be nice to discuss.
>
> 1- could johnny have an eating disorder? he doesnt eat properly, refuses
> food from Yo-less's mother and passes out from malnutrition....
>
yep...he suffers from a well known eating and behaviour disorder...
...being a teenager
>
> 2- why is gobi software's address in tibet?
>
because Rochdale wouldn't have been as funny
Tibet is ideal for implying a sort of mysterious occult remoteness
>
> 3- seeing as johnny's mother is absent (you only hear of her in teh book) is
> the captain making up for that in some way? for example telling him he
> should be eating more greens etc. the captain also shows pictures of her
> children, flies the mothership, and is fighting in the mother of all
> battles.
>
I picked up some of that sort of subtext too...I felt oit was a
little more complicated than that though...it relates to Johnny
filling the gap that once would be filled by an extended family with
role models derived from things like games...but since he is able to
apply a more open mind than most, he find more interesting role
models than others do
>
> 4- could the big questions of whose on whose side between bigmac and yo-less
> be related to the trying times and johnny being stuck in the middle with his
> parents? esp johnnysline 'what colour are we on the screen'
>
again I felt that was a very strong analogy...Johnny refusing to
take sides in the game just as he's trying not to take sides in real
life...I thought it was rather poignant
all in all I think it is one of the best things Terry has
written...deceptively simple
--
eric - afprelationships in headers
"money can't buy you love, but sometimes dinner
is much more important"
Matthew Hambley
"liselle" <margravi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Ive just finished reading only you can save mankind and had a couple of
> questions i thought would be nice to discuss.
>
> 1- could johnny have an eating disorder? he doesnt eat properly, refuses
> food from Yo-less's mother and passes out from malnutrition....
If by eating disorder you mean that he passes out due to malnutrition then
yes. If you mean is he anorexic I don't think so, just very, very
stressed. Oh, and a teenage boy and as such will chew his own leg off in
favour of eating something which might be good for him.
> 2- why is gobi software's address in tibet?
Why not? If you want deep analysis try this. Much bread and butter
programing (databases, payroll software, etc) is done in India. Gobi
produce by-the-book bread and butter games. Alternatively maybe they are
a fly-by-night operation which works out of whichever company will allow
them to get away with whatever they are trying to get away with.
> 3- seeing as johnny's mother is absent (you only hear of her in teh book)
> is the captain making up for that in some way? for example telling him he
> should be eating more greens etc. the captain also shows pictures of her
> children, flies the mothership, and is fighting in the mother of all
> battles.
That could be the case but I always assumed the point where she tells
Johnny to eat more greens was just there to highten the odity of the
situation. Terrifying alien invasion fleet commands are rarely bothered
by your getting enough vitamin C.
As for the mother of all battles that is most likely a reference to the
Gulf war which is a constant background element of those parts of the story
which are in the "real world".
--
(\/)atthew Hambley ----------------\ If something's worth doing it's worth
\ doing badly until you can learn to
mat...@aether.demon.co.uk \ do it well.
http://www.aether.demon.co.uk/ \-----------------------------------
Eric Jarvis
>
> which brings up another point.. what does teh novel say about sexism? it
> brings it into the light, talks about it openly, but in the end it is still
> johnny who has to do everthing despite sigorney showing more talent... . to
> me that sort of endorses traditional roles of masculine/feminine
> behaviour... also teh only male to trasgress screewee tradition ends up
> being evil
>
that's an inevitable result of following the idea that sometimes
being empathic is more important than being talented...either Johnny
is made the talented character and "Sigourney" does everything or
vice versa...either can be construed as sexist
whilst you are right about the skreewee male thang...isn't it
equally true that the captain is also breaking tradition?
--
eric - afprelationships in headers
"if a thing's worth doing, it's worth doing to excess"
liselle
"Tom Ferguson" <tom.fe...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:B6FBD72B.542B%tom.fe...@ntlworld.com...
why didnt the gungho female solve teh problem then? teh traditional male
hero stepped in to save the day.
liselle
"Eric Jarvis" <er...@last.dircon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MPG.15402b493...@news.dircon.co.uk...
> liselle wrote:
> >
> > which brings up another point.. what does teh novel say about sexism? it
> > brings it into the light, talks about it openly, but in the end it is
still
> > johnny who has to do everthing despite sigorney showing more talent... .
to
> > me that sort of endorses traditional roles of masculine/feminine
> > behaviour... also teh only male to trasgress screewee tradition ends up
> > being evil
> >
>
> that's an inevitable result of following the idea that sometimes
> being empathic is more important than being talented...either Johnny
> is made the talented character and "Sigourney" does everything or
> vice versa...either can be construed as sexist
>
> whilst you are right about the skreewee male thang...isn't it
> equally true that the captain is also breaking tradition?
>
Terry Pratchett
>why didnt the gungho female solve teh problem then? teh traditional male
>hero stepped in to save the day.
Oh dear, knee-jerk sentence. Johnny is anything but a 'traditional'
hero. He doesn't step in, he's dragged in; throughout the book he
seldom does anything because he wants to, but because a situation is
dropped on him and then, being Johnny, he struggles to do his best to
deal with it.
--
Terry Pratchett
Charles A Lieberman
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=<ea882d6a4...@aether.demon.co.uk>
>a teenage boy and as such will chew his own leg off in
>favour of eating something which might be good for him.
Except leg of teenage boy is bound to have many if not all of the
nutrients needed by a teenage boy.
ppint.
tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk "Terry Pratchett" replied:
[liselle asked]:
when your parents are splitting up, or possibly splitting
up, there isn't anything you *can* do, even if they're
trying to keep you in the picture (so far as you can under-
stand things); if they're not, all you may know, is that
things are wrong - and possibly, that it's somehow all
your fault. in some unspecified way, or in every possible
way, even if you can't think how.
- but johnny's isn't an escape from responsibility, even
imagined; it's an escape from the desert of an impossible
situation courtesy of gobi software, that becomes an e-
scape _to_ responsibility - with a little help from his
friends. and some hinderance, and some pestering, and the
odd belt on the head with a cushion, in exasperation...
- however, liselle seemed to be asking why, if it was al-
right forthe traditional male hero to sort things out in
the past, why couldn't the gung-ho sigourney do so, in
oycsm ? which is asking why fire-power isn't the answer,
and is asking why they weren't the johanna maxwell books,
maybe - 'cos, in oycsm, it does have to be the central
character who works out the answer to their own problems.
- love, ppint.
[v$af$ppint@ bounces e-mail; drop the "v", to reply or cc.]
--
"Never Play Leap-Frog with a Unicorn"
- andrew bell, the bookworm, morecambe, c.1974
liselle
""ppint."" <v$af$pp...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:20010413.193...@i-m-t.demon.co.uk...
> - hi; in abp article, <aZyfELA4...@unseen.demon.co.uk>,
> tprat...@unseen.demon.co.uk "Terry Pratchett" replied:
> [liselle asked]:
> >>why didnt the gungho female solve teh problem then? teh traditional
> >>male hero stepped in to save the day.
> >
> >Oh dear, knee-jerk sentence. Johnny is anything but a 'traditional'
> >hero. He doesn't step in, he's dragged in; throughout the book he
> >seldom does anything because he wants to, but because a situation is
> >dropped on him and then, being Johnny, he struggles to do his best to
> >deal with it.
> >
>
- *nods* - and that's among the things that makes oycsm:
> when your parents are splitting up, or possibly splitting
> up, there isn't anything you *can* do, even if they're
> trying to keep you in the picture (so far as you can under-
> stand things); if they're not, all you may know, is that
> things are wrong - and possibly, that it's somehow all
> your fault. in some unspecified way, or in every possible
> way, even if you can't think how.
>
i can see that... hence johnnys 'dont know.. mebe cos its my problem' line
when sigorny asks him why is he so happy.
> - but johnny's isn't an escape from responsibility, even
> imagined; it's an escape from the desert of an impossible
> situation courtesy of gobi software, that becomes an e-
> scape _to_ responsibility - with a little help from his
> friends. and some hinderance, and some pestering, and the
> odd belt on the head with a cushion, in exasperation...
>
>
> - however, liselle seemed to be asking why, if it was al-
> right forthe traditional male hero to sort things out in
> the past, why couldn't the gung-ho sigourney do so, in
> oycsm ? which is asking why fire-power isn't the answer,
> and is asking why they weren't the johanna maxwell books,
> maybe - 'cos, in oycsm, it does have to be the central
> character who works out the answer to their own problems.
>
>
so what is the significance of johnny going to sigorneys? is it just to
prove he isnt insane? that he isnt dreaming up teh whole senario of saving
the screewee with some funny conincidences like the software not working
properly?
johnny stikes me as the type to not want to get involved. he seems to want
to stand back and not have war. he seems quite passive, but still is the one
to save the day. is it because action is needed and he has to learn that?
even more curious.. why does it have to be a boy and a girl in the end? why
cant johnny's mates help him?
velvet
Jacob W. Haller
[. . .]
> so what is the significance of johnny going to sigorneys? is it just to
> prove he isnt insane? that he isnt dreaming up teh whole senario of saving
> the screewee with some funny conincidences like the software not working
> properly?
Well, one of the questions is, is Johnny the only person who the aliens
tried to surrender to? Another question is, how might other people have
dealt with it? So apart from establishing that Johnny isn't simply
hallucinating it starts to answer these questions.
Sigourney also provides contrast to Johnny's character--whereas Johnny
has a tendency to drift through life Sigourney is a real go-getter. The
difference in gender serves partly to emphasize the extent to which they
are opposites and also facilitates the link to the Alien/Aliens movie
series.
> johnny stikes me as the type to not want to get involved. he seems to want
> to stand back and not have war. he seems quite passive, but still is the one
> to save the day. is it because action is needed and he has to learn that?
Well, I think one of the ideas in the book is that it's important to
both be able to take action when it's needed and not take action when it
isn't. Sigourney's first response to any situation is to take direct
action. This is useful in some circumstances but it's problematic in
situations where direct action isn't necessary.
When Johnny saves the day he demonstrates that he can take action (even
action that Sigourney is incapable of taking) when the need is there.
> even more curious.. why does it have to be a boy and a girl in the end? why
> cant johnny's mates help him?
What are you talking about? They brought milk, cereal, and hamburgers!
Anyway, I think that they don't end up on the spaceship because they're
too similar to him. Not that they don't have their differences, but
they wouldn't provide the kind of contrast to Johnny's actions abord the
ship that Sigourney does.
-jwgh
--
They both savoured the strange warm glow of being much more ignorant
than ordinary people, who were only ignorant of ordinary things.
(Terry Pratchett, Equal Rites)
Margaret
>As above. I do know that, for me, the plot of this book flowed very
>easily...mind you, I was very angry when I wrote it...
erm, why? Were you very angry, that is. If you don't
mind saying.
Margaret
Terry Pratchett
<no_...@all.thanks> writes
I'd seen too many real deaths being presented as video game footage.
--
Terry Pratchett
Josef and Guilaine Moffett
liselle <margravi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3ad5...@news.iprimus.com.au...
>
> "J.T. Wenting" <jwen...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:987075489.27828....@news.demon.nl...
> > > 1- could johnny have an eating disorder? he doesnt eat properly,
refuses
> > > food from Yo-less's mother and passes out from malnutrition....
> > >
> > Check his home-situation. He doesn't get good food at home, but refuses
to
> > accept food from others to hide the fact.
>
> p49
>
> They all looked at Johnny, who'd hardly touched his hamburger...
>
> even when there is food in front of him, he doesnt seem to eat it. sure,
> theres a pride thing there with not accepting food from other ppl, but he
is
> still not eating properly, and he is aware of it.
> >
Yeah, but when your immersed in a problem don't you sometimes "forget" to
eat. Hell my wifes just shouting at me for not finishing my cup of tea (a
common occurrence, and I sure don't have an eating disorder (well, perhaps
the other way, but not starving myself ;-)
Matthew Hambley
"liselle" <margravi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
> johnny stikes me as the type to not want to get involved. he seems to
> want to stand back and not have war. he seems quite passive, but still is
> the one to save the day. is it because action is needed and he has to
> learn that?
I think it is interesting that you appear to make a link between not
wanting war and not wanting to get involved. It is perfectly possible to
be really involved in a situation and not want war. In fact I would go so
far as to say that it is easier to want war if you are *not* involved
because you have no emotional investment in the situation. Johnny is not
passive, he simply acts through different means. He asks questions, he
tries to understand. As a famous man who had just lead an entire country
through a world war once stated "It is better to jaw, jaw, jaw than to war,
war, war."
> even more curious.. why does it have to be a boy and a girl in the end?
> why cant johnny's mates help him?
I think you're getting really hung up on the male/female thing. It's of
minor importance. The point is that Johnny is the empathic, liberal, try-
to-see-the-other-chaps-point-of-view one while Kirsty (Sigourney was her
game name) is the imediate physical action let's-bomb-the-crap-out-of-them
personality.
As an aside there is a very strong theme of people not being who they
appear. Yo-less is the black kid who "isn't black", Big Mac is the hard
kid who is actually not the skin-head he appears and Wobbler wants to be
"big in computers" if only he could get the hang of soldering irons.
Kirsty also fits in here as she changes her identity while playing games as
she feels that Sigourney is more dynamic. The only character who is what
he seems is Johnny. He really is a somewhat confused, very stressed but
when you get right down to it, nice guy.
You even get General Schwartzkopf (Oh sorry, The General) described as a
man disguised as a desert but I think that was just a joke.
Matthew Hambley
Charles A Lieberman <cali...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> Matthew Hambley Thu, 12 Apr 2001 19:38:09 +0100
> <ea882d6a4...@aether.demon.co.uk>
>> a teenage boy and as such will chew his own leg off in favour of eating
>> something which might be good for him.
>
> Except leg of teenage boy is bound to have many if not all of the
> nutrients needed by a teenage boy.
This is true of course except that, given the ineficencies in any system,
the weight of useful nutrients derived from eating ones own leg will be
less than the weight of nutrients in said leg. Given that you will have
just lost a leg you will be in dire need of the nutrient content of a leg.
Margaret
>I'd seen too many real deaths being presented as video game footage.
Ah. Aha. Yes. :-(
I'll bite my tongue.
List Manager
hotmail.com> writes
Just so we're sure that none of this is the main point of the book...
My take on the book is that it is about the Gulf War being presented as
a painless computer game, with smart weapons precisely taking out
bunkers, etc. We are being reminded that real people with hopes and
desires of their own were being killed, even if they do look a bit
different to us...
>why didnt the gungho female solve teh problem then? teh traditional male
>hero stepped in to save the day.
Well, again this is just IMHO, but *is* that how it was?? I figured
that Johnny and Sigourney between them managed what neither of them
alone could have done. Isn't that the definition of "a team"?
--
Chris Wright
Clot...@soupert.com
>
>
>> even more curious.. why does it have to be a boy and a girl in the end?
why
>> cant johnny's mates help him?
>
>What are you talking about? They brought milk, cereal, and hamburgers!
>
>Anyway, I think that they don't end up on the spaceship because they're
>too similar to him. Not that they don't have their differences, but
>they wouldn't provide the kind of contrast to Johnny's actions abord the
>ship that Sigourney does.
>
Johnny is different. His mind is different. It has to be to have taken the
aliens seriously in the first place. He gets Sigourney and his mates to go
along with him. Sigourney because he convinces her that the game is real and
she has an immense curiousity about mumbo jumbo type science. His friends go
along because they ARE his friends. Not because they particularly believe or
want to help the aliens or really understand but just because they ARE his
friends. This situation is set up in all the Johnny Maxwell books and even in
Good Omens where Adam's "gang" go along with him up to a point. These friends
are provided to CONTRAST Johnny with the normal "real" world way of reacting
to things.
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liselle
> What are you talking about? They brought milk, cereal, and hamburgers!
hmm.. you never know if that really happens.. there isnt the coresponding
sort of conversation in the real world so did these guys really do that or
did johnny somehow imagine them in?
velvet