[R] ToT - Question for Pterry re: Jeremy Clockson
LizM7
Spoiler space for Thief of Time.
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This is for Pterry: In _Thief of Time_, did you *intend* for Jeremy
Clockson to have Asperger's syndrome? Because this man is the poster
child for the disorder if I've ever seen one.
Just working from the DSM IV criteria
(http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/aswhatisit.html#DSM), he has:
(A) - characteristics 2 and (less certain here) 4
(B) - characteristics 1 (obsesses over time / clocks) and 2 (e.g.
measures out a spoonful of medicine and pours it down the drain);
possibly 4 ("Jeremy always liked the moment when he had a clock in
pieces, with every wheel and spring carefully laid out in front of
him. It was like looking at Time, dismantled, controllable, every
part of it understood...") as well.
(C) - definately causes impairment in social functioning, as well as
(possibly) occupational.
For D, E, and F, not enough information is given to be conclusive.
Other characteristics of Aspergers include the fact that he will talk
about clocks at great length, even if the listeners aren't interested
("He was puzzled that people seemed to think he was a boring
conversationalist. Why, he could talk about all *kinds* of clocks....
But for some reason, he always ran out of listeners before he ran out
of clocks."), and that those few social skills he has learned, he
learned more-or-less by rote ("Jeremy obediently held out a hand.
Patient men at the Clockmaker's Guild had spent a long time teaching
him how to Relate To People before giving up in despair, but some
things had stuck.").
There's also a bit about how he can't comprehend fairy tales or most
other fiction, IIRC.
Incidentally, he's also extremely skilled at clockmaking. Many
Aspies, for some reason, are incredibly skilled with technology -- a
relatively high percentage of programmers are Aspies, and I've been
told the same applies for physics and engineering, and possibly
mathematics. So this goes along with everything else as well.
So, my question is - was this intentional?
- Liz
Daibhid Chiennedelh
I think you could have something here. He also shows signs of (A) 1 and 3, I
think there's a suggestion of (B) 2.
OTOH, I thought *I* had Asperger's, so what do I know?
--
Dave
Now Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc for three years
http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc
"When Mister Safety Catch Is Not On, Mister Crossbow Is Not Your Friend."
-Advanced weapon training, Detritus style; Terry Pratchett, Night Watch
LizM7
> >From: hsel...@hotmail.com (LizM7)
Meaning that he's got every symptom except for B3. Can we make an
official diagnosis yet?
> OTOH, I thought *I* had Asperger's, so what do I know?
*shrug* I *know* I have it, but I doubt that qualifies me as an
expert.
- Liz
Rachel Butt
> daibhidc...@aol.com (Daibhid Chiennedelh) wrote:
> > >From: hsel...@hotmail.com (LizM7)
> > >This is sort of a cross between [A] and [R], but....
> > >Spoiler space for Thief of Time.
> > >
> > >1
> > >2
> > >3
> > >4
> > >5
> > >6
> > >7
> > >8
> > >9
> > >0
> > >
> > >This is for Pterry: In _Thief of Time_, did you *intend* for Jeremy
> > >Clockson to have Asperger's syndrome? Because this man is the poster
> > >child for the disorder if I've ever seen one.
> > I think you could have something here. He also shows signs of (A) 1 and 3, I
> > think there's a suggestion of (B) 2.
>
> Meaning that he's got every symptom except for B3. Can we make an
> official diagnosis yet?
>
> > OTOH, I thought *I* had Asperger's, so what do I know?
>
> *shrug* I *know* I have it, but I doubt that qualifies me as an
> expert.
> - Liz
<lightbulb>
Asperger's is relatively common, isn't it? Similarities to Autism, normal
or high intelligence, diagnosed essentially on the basis of observed
traits (i.e. no known underlying cause), comes in strengths from mild to
severe ...
PTerry doesn't have to have actually had Asperger's in mind to have
described a character with the syndrome. There are enough people like
that out there; people like Liz, like some of my friends; with PTerry's
keen eye for human nature, he only has to take characters he's met and
amplify them a little to get Jeremy (who was 'incomplete' without his
'brother'.)
Of course, from what I've seen of PTerry's extensive general knowledge,
I'd guess he did know about Asperger's.
Rachel
--
Rachel Butt rb...@pcug.org.au, Rache...@anu.edu.au
PhD Student, Nuclear Physics, Australian National University
Administrator of MapHaven (http://heroes.mycomport.com/)
All pigs fueled and ready for takeoff.
Morpheus
news:d89b4999.03012...@posting.google.com...
It isn't possible to make a diagnosis of Asperger's based on the limited
information provided in TOT. You would need a complete life history
(including early childhood development) and a clinical workup to make that
sort of diagnosis. It's always tempting to look at a fictional or
historical character and say that he was probably suffering from this or
that disorder but it can only be speculation without all of the facts.
James Morrissey
. . .
JQM
LizM7
> information provided in TOT. You would need a complete life history
> (including early childhood development) and a clinical workup to make that
> sort of diagnosis.
*shrugs* Possibly. The point is, the guy's behavior is suprisingly
close to someone with a fairly good-sized case of Asperger's syndrome.
Ridiculously close to someone with it, in fact.
> It's always tempting to look at a fictional or
> historical character and say that he was probably suffering from this or
> that disorder but it can only be speculation without all of the facts.
Except when you talk to the author and *ask* him what his intentions
were.
- Liz
David Harcombe
Hey... I only just got it when you pointed it out! Aaaargh!
Sophie Sensat
Hey... I still don't get it.
Confused,
Sophie
--
scse...@simons-rock.edu "Sorry, but the medications
normally prescribed for treating ADHD do not create 'zombies'.
Among other things the students have a pulse and they do not
periodically misplace body parts." - J. Clarke
Andrew Irish
> David Harcombe <David.NOSP...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>
>>On Wed, 22 Jan 2003 20:19:14 +0000, James Morrissey wrote:
>>
>>
>>>i can't BELIEVE that i only just got "Jeremy Clockson". Damn, that's so bad
>>>. . .
>>>
>>>JQM
>>
>>
>>Hey... I only just got it when you pointed it out! Aaaargh!
>
>
> Hey... I still don't get it.
There's a TV presenter in the UK called 'Jeremy Clarkson'.
He used to drive cars on TV in a sort of review show. Then he got his
own chat show. Not everyone likes him.
HTH, if only a little :)
--
Andrew
MP
Sensat) wrote:
>David Harcombe <David.NOSP...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 22 Jan 2003 20:19:14 +0000, James Morrissey wrote:
>>
>> > i can't BELIEVE that i only just got "Jeremy Clockson". Damn, that's so bad
>> > . . .
>> >
>> > JQM
>>
>>
>> Hey... I only just got it when you pointed it out! Aaaargh!
>
>Hey... I still don't get it.
There is a British TV personality called Jeremy Clarkson. It isn't an
amazing joke, since Jeremy Clockson doesn't wear blue jeans, waffle on
about fast cars and occassionally frighten himself out of his wits by
doing things that are very fast (like jet fighter flying), dangerous
(like inflatable ball rolling) or both (like jet boating) for the
pursuit of TV...
MP
--
"One shouldn't pretend to be a dentist.
It creates a false impression."
- Oscar Wilde, Importance of Being Earnest
Sophie Sensat
Ohhh... that explains my not getting it.
Thanks :)
Sophie, Merkin
Richard Eney
MP <mpj...@bleurgh.net> wrote:
> scse...@simons-rock.edu (Sophie Sensat) wrote:
>>David Harcombe <David.NOSP...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 22 Jan 2003 20:19:14 +0000, James Morrissey wrote:
>>> > i can't BELIEVE that i only just got "Jeremy Clockson".
>>Hey... I still don't get it.
>
>There is a British TV personality called Jeremy Clarkson. It isn't an
>amazing joke, since Jeremy Clockson doesn't wear blue jeans, waffle on
>about fast cars and occassionally frighten himself out of his wits by
>doing things that are very fast (like jet fighter flying), dangerous
>(like inflatable ball rolling) or both (like jet boating) for the
>pursuit of TV...
So he does things that are stupidly dangerous for an amateur to do as part
of his self-created job, because he's too numb to know better? Sounds a
bit like our Jeremy Clockson.
=Tamar
James Morrissey
> of his self-created job, because he's too numb to know better? Sounds a
> bit like our Jeremy Clockson.
No, he's just an old twat who drives around in cars and gives you his smarmy
opinion whether you like it or not. Everyone with an ounce of taste hates
him.
JQM
Sherilyn
I used to think that, too. I've seen him do subjects other than cars
(cars don't interest me) and I've found him a very good presenter who
combines earthiness, charm and intelligence very well.
He really did a great job of promoting Brunel for Great Briton on the
recent TV series of that name.
--
Sherilyn
Elmar Bijlsma
> He really did a great job of promoting Brunel for Great Briton on the
> recent TV series of that name.
> --
Don't forget the "Meet the neigbours" tour: British arrogance and smugness
in a head on collision with the European mainland. Funny as hades, though
sadly I just missed the Dutch episode. They just started running the series
again, only problem being I'm not sure if 'They' are the Beeb, Dutch telly
or just the voices in my head.
Oh well.
LoneCat
>
> "James Morrissey" <mellon_c...@btopenworld.com> writes:
> > No, he's just an old twat who drives around in cars and gives you his smarmy
> > opinion whether you like it or not. Everyone with an ounce of taste hates
> > him.
>
> I used to think that, too. I've seen him do subjects other than cars
> (cars don't interest me) and I've found him a very good presenter who
> combines earthiness, charm and intelligence very well.
I was never a fan of his until I started watching 'Clarkson' - a TV show
in which he did such exciting things as making a cannon out of a
pringles tube and putting things in microwaves. I never realised what
an exciting subject putting things in microwaves was until then. I'm
just sorry I missed the potato cannon and the incident with the pizza
and the oxy-acetylene cutter. Given the right subject he can be a very
good presenter.
--
Susan/LoneCat, AFPgoddess of indecision
http://www.lonecat.org/
Music: http://www.numfrunct.co.uk/
The cat who walks by herself
Lorna
Sherilyn <sher...@suespammers.org> wrote in message
news:87smvip...@happy.sherilyn.org.uk...
> I used to think that, too. I've seen him do subjects other than cars
> (cars don't interest me) and I've found him a very good presenter who
> combines earthiness, charm and intelligence very well.
>
> He really did a great job of promoting Brunel for Great Briton on the
> recent TV series of that name.
> --
> Sherilyn
His column in the Sunday Times is actually pretty good. Generally I dislike
him intensely, but his column is often very funny.
Lorna
David Harcombe
As long as you don't actually have to listen to him, he's ok then is that
it?
:p
Daibhid Ceannaideach
>Date: 22/01/03 23:35 GMT Standard Time
>Message-id: <d89b4999.03012...@posting.google.com>
>
>"Morpheus" <car...@miskatonic.edu> wrote:
>> "LizM7" <hsel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > This is sort of a cross between [A] and [R], but....
>> > Spoiler space for Thief of Time.
>> >
>> > 1
>> > 2
>> > 3
>> > 4
>> > 5
>> > 6
>> > 7
>> > 8
>> > 9
>> > 0
>> >
>> > This is for Pterry: In _Thief of Time_, did you *intend* for Jeremy
>> > Clockson to have Asperger's syndrome? Because this man is the poster
>> > child for the disorder if I've ever seen one.
<snip>
>> It isn't possible to make a diagnosis of Asperger's based on the limited
>> information provided in TOT. You would need a complete life history
>> (including early childhood development) and a clinical workup to make that
>> sort of diagnosis.
>
>*shrugs* Possibly. The point is, the guy's behavior is suprisingly
>close to someone with a fairly good-sized case of Asperger's syndrome.
> Ridiculously close to someone with it, in fact.
True. O'course, so is mine. And I've been told, by an expert, that I definitely
*don't* have it, but "just" a combination of obsessive-compulsive disorder and
social phobia. I think you're probably right, but Morpheus has a point, too.
Lesley Weston
Except me. He's funnier than most comedians.
Lesley Weston.
cy...@visi.com
Chiennedelh) wrote:
>>
>>From: hsel...@hotmail.com (LizM7)
>>Date: 21/01/03 17:40 GMT Standard Time
>>Message-id: <d89b4999.03012...@posting.google.com>
>>
>>This is sort of a cross between [A] and [R], but....
>>Spoiler space for Thief of Time.
>>
>>1
>>2
>>3
>>4
>>5
>>6
>>7
>>8
>>9
>>0
>>
>>This is for Pterry: In _Thief of Time_, did you *intend* for Jeremy
>>Clockson to have Asperger's syndrome? Because this man is the poster
>>child for the disorder if I've ever seen one.
He _is_ an incomplete personality, though, which could explain any
number of things that would, in a complete person, be neurotic /
psychotic disorders.
--
rbc:vixen,Minnow Goddess,Willow Watcher,and all that sort of thing.
Often taunted by trout.
Very slow on replying to email.
http://www.visi.com/~cyli
Lorna
David Harcombe <David.NOSP...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.01.25.08....@bigfoot.com...
> On Sat, 25 Jan 2003 02:19:09 +0000, Lorna wrote:
>
> > His column in the Sunday Times is actually pretty good. Generally I
dislike
> > him intensely, but his column is often very funny.
> >
> As long as you don't actually have to listen to him, he's ok then is that
> it?
>
> :p
Or look at him :-) Yup, that's about it.
Lorna
Tony Donovan
"David Harcombe" <David.NOSP...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.01.23.09....@bigfoot.com...
James Kuyper
> "LizM7" <hsel...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:d89b4999.03012...@posting.google.com...
> > This is sort of a cross between [A] and [R], but....
> > Spoiler space for Thief of Time.
> >
> > 1
> > 2
> > 3
> > 4
> > 5
> > 6
> > 7
> > 8
> > 9
> > 0
> It isn't possible to make a diagnosis of Asperger's based on the limited
> information provided in TOT. You would need a complete life history
Does that mean it's not possible to diagnose Asperger's when a
significant portion of the patient's life history is unavailable, for
instance as a result of amnesia?