MacTavish
Paige
to have infected everyone else with my MacTavish obsession.
To those of you who, like me, *remember* Jamie being introduced to
Claire as MacTavish, he WASN'T, in Outlander. If you are reading
Outlander you will never find the reference. If you want to see him
introduced as such, it has been pointed out that it's in Cross Stich,
the British edition of Outlander, availiable through amazon.co.uk or
through any bookstore that imports from the UK.
--
Paige - appologizing profusely for driving everyone else insane :)
GO LEAFS!!!
proud to be Outlandish
My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves me completly.
God put me on earth to accomplish a certain number of things.
Right now I am so far behind, I will live forever.
JESUS LOVES YOU. It's everybody else that thinks you're an ass.
I didn't fight my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian.
(to e-mail double the p and take out the "reston")
Libbi Cusolito
Libbi
Maeve Kennedy
: I see no need to apologize. It is fun to discuss the subject.
:
: Libbi
:
: Paige wrote:
:
: > Okay, I'm sorry I said anything about this in the first place. I seem
: > to have infected everyone else with my MacTavish obsession.
: > To those of you who, like me, *remember* Jamie being introduced to
: > Claire as MacTavish, he WASN'T, in Outlander. If you are reading
: > Outlander you will never find the reference. If you want to see him
: > introduced as such, it has been pointed out that it's in Cross Stich,
: > the British edition of Outlander, availiable through amazon.co.uk or
: > through any bookstore that imports from the UK.
sorry I sent it off to my sister now, or I could give you
a reference, but Yes, one of the highlanders in the very
beginning refers to Jamie as "MacTavish" -- I think at
the time Claire is within earshot, and they are trying
to preserve his identity since he's a wanted man. She picks
up on this, being ever observant, and later refers to Jamie
as MacTavish also.
It happens sometime while they are still on the highway.
- Maeve (missing my OL copy already!)
: > --
:
:
OddDodd
When you get your copy back - FIND THAT!! I searched high and low in both my
PB and HC of OL trying to find that initial MacTavish reference and it's
nowhere to be found. Now we are all going to want to know what edition, which
printing and what page!!!! You'll have no rest until you provide that
information!!!!!!!
Too fun!!
Odd
The Old Laughing Lady )O(
R. Shrimpton
LOL, it is lots of fun isn't it? Anyway, of course I had to re-read, or
rather re-re-re-re...hehe, and yeah I did it really quick, but I found
no mention of his 'last name' and then Claire is at the castle calling
him MacTavish, Who? Young Jamie. The section of the book we're talking
about is relatively small too, only about 10 pages. BTW, I believe my
copy is first edition, hc, published 1991.
Rune
JJGarsee
bottom of page 76 when Claire says, "I hope Mr. MacTavish is feeling better."
Now where she got that Mr. MacTavish from, I'll never know!
Nina
Paige
>
> Maeve -
>
> When you get your copy back - FIND THAT!! I searched high and low in both my
> PB and HC of OL trying to find that initial MacTavish reference and it's
> nowhere to be found. Now we are all going to want to know what edition, which
> printing and what page!!!! You'll have no rest until you provide that
> information!!!!!!!
>
> Too fun!!
>
> Odd
> The Old Laughing Lady )O(
sure that someone called him "MacTavish" but when I looked (dozens of
times taking hours to re-read 10 pages, there was NO mention of a
MacTavish. I should point out that I have a first edition copy of
Outlander. Perhaps it was put back into the second edition?
--
Paige
GO LEAFS!!!
Maeve Kennedy
I'll just have to ask my sister to mail it back,
hopefully her husband's finished with it now, and
she hasn't already lent it to a friend! : )
Anyway, I'm positive one of the traveling companions
made reference to him as MacTavish, either on the road,
or when they reached the castle...
Now I have a good excuese to re-read it again!
In article <19990124110251...@ng-fs1.aol.com>,
odd...@aol.com says...
: Maeve -
:
David & Carol Morris
for it!
CM
isab...@dreamscape.bernstein.com
Stitch. I looked first in Outlander, sure that he was introduced as Jamie
MacTavish. I couldn't find it until she inquires about how Mr. MacTavish is
feeling. I then looked in Cross Stitch and found that one paragraph is
omitted. It is the paragraph immediately before she inquires about Mr.
MacTavish's health. The paragraph is:
"I looked around the room but didn't see the red head of my erstwhile
travelling companion. James MacTavish, he had said his name was.
'I hope Mr MacTavish is feeling better,' I offered, during a momentary pause
for breath. 'I didn't see him when I came in.'"
Apparently he was never outwardly introduced as James MacTavish but instead
it is mentioned in Claire's thoughts that he told previously said that his
name was James MacTavish.
What I find interesting is the small sutle changes. Little words here and
there changed. I guess they figured the Americans might not know all the
words and references. The spelling change I noticed most was Colum
(Outlander) vs Callum (Cross Stitch).
Isabella
In article <MPG.1116d1028...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>,
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Tanya
is on page 115, the third page of Chapter 6, 'Callum's Hall'.
The quote is
'I looked around the room but didn't see the red head of my erstwhile
travelling companion. James MacTavish, he had said his name was.
'I hope Mr MacTavish is feeling better,' I offered, during a momentary
pause for breath. 'I didn't see him when I came in'.
Hope this helps!!
Tanya
Maeve Kennedy <maeve-...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in article
<MPG.1116d1028...@netnews.worldnet.att.net>...
isab...@honey.bernstein.com
introduced in Outlander. So it began driving me nuts! My husband almost
laughed himself silly when he saw me baraging thru the books to find the
reference.
Isabella
In article <78lvvg$59j$1...@news.cmc.net>,
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
ALIXGUNN
there changed. I guess they figured the Americans might not know all the words
and references. The spelling change I noticed most was Colum (Outlander) vs
Callum (Cross Stitch).<
Also details like Claire borrowing Mr.s Baird's car (Ot) - but in CS she
borrows a bike, I believe.
The directions in the scene where she tries to slip away fromthe copse,
and ends up "saved" by the English patrol make a little more sense in terms of
reality....
And I got a little more sense of Frank in CS - whereas in Outlander he
seems to be "sketched in".
isab...@honey.bernstein.com
I will have to keep an eye out for those little subtle changes when I re-read
the books for the 100th time it seems (probably only the 5th time in
actuality). This time I will re-read starting with Cross Stitch. It will be
only my 2nd time to read this version, all other times I have read Outlander.
Isabella
OddDodd
are on the road and are attacked near some rocks by Campbells (I believe).
Claire was learning to use a dirk earlier in the day, then they are attacked at
dark and Claire hides out in some rocks? I'm trying to refresh your memories
here and I hope I have this right. Anyway, there is one of THOSE wonderful
scenes between Jamie and Claire right there on the rocks which is not in Cross
Stitch. It's entirely possible I have this backwards. Someone pointed it out
to me and I had to go in and reread both books and then, as with all the things
that are deleted, ponder the why of it all. It is quite fun to read them and
compare and as this thread has been continuing I have been fighting the losing
battle of the reread!!!!! The only thing stopping me at this time is I'm in
the midst of another book (a rather small paperback, thank goodness) and the
ridicule of my family saying AGAIN?!?!?!?!?!
Colleen Lill
anxious to "read" it!!
Colleen
OddDodd wrote:
--
**A day without sunshine is like, you know, night.
Colleen Lill
> > Maeve -
> >
> > When you get your copy back - FIND THAT!! I searched high and low in both my
> > PB and HC of OL trying to find that initial MacTavish reference and it's
> > nowhere to be found. Now we are all going to want to know what edition, which
> > printing and what page!!!! You'll have no rest until you provide that
> > information!!!!!!!
> >
> > Too fun!!
> >
> > Odd
> > The Old Laughing Lady )O(
>
> LOL, it is lots of fun isn't it? Anyway, of course I had to re-read, or
> rather re-re-re-re...hehe, and yeah I did it really quick, but I found
> no mention of his 'last name' and then Claire is at the castle calling
> him MacTavish, Who? Young Jamie. The section of the book we're talking
> about is relatively small too, only about 10 pages. BTW, I believe my
> copy is first edition, hc, published 1991.
>
> Rune
Ya know, I still can't rid of the feeling that all of this may have been explained in a later book, such as DiA? I'm sure
that I read the explanation somewhere too.!!
Colleen
James Corrigan
the waterskins (or some such nonsense). They begin to make love by a pool,
and they are found by 2 ex-red coats. Claire ends up killing the one man,
and Jaime feels less of a man because she does.
>So, Odd, why don't you enlighten the rest of us that haven't read CS and
quote us that scene in the book!!! I, for one, am
>anxious to "read" it!!
The Van Leeuwens
discussing a few of the most difficult scenes that she'd had to write, and
that that was one of them? Claire kills one of the 'baddies' that attempted
the rape and Jamie feels ashamed that he couldn't save her, that she had to
save herself....
Right part??? Straight off the top of my head, mind you!
Sallyann
James Corrigan wrote in message <78ogie$5...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
Nicklshort
>explained in a later book, such as DiA? I'm sure
>that I read the explanation somewhere too.!!
>
>Colleen
Ya know Colleen, I think you're right. I thought that after I looked for
Jamie's intro to Claire in OL. Now that I know I have lapsed mental abilities,
I think that Claire talks about it in a later book that Jamie had been
introduced to her as MacTavish when she first met him. Well - now I'm gonna
have to find that section - somewhere in one of those four very big books-
cause I know I read that Jamie was introduced as MacTavish, even if I didn't
really, really read it! : )
Nancy
ALIXGUNN
scenes between Jamie and Claire right there on the rocks which is not in Cross
You're right - - the "cockstand" is missing, after the Grants attack.
OddDodd
the waterskins (or some such nonsense). They begin to make love by a pool,
and they are found by 2 ex-red coats. Claire ends up killing the one man,
and Jaime feels less of a man because she does.<<
OK, this is going to make me crazy!! Is THIS scene not in both books? Because
this isn't the one I was talking about. I promise, I will go look up the one
I was talking about tonight and post the pages. And this scene mentioned above
as well!!
OddDodd
>explained in a later book, such as DiA? I'm sure
>that I read the explanation somewhere too.!!<<
I don't think so. When I did my most recent reread, about a year ago prior to
my trip to Scotland, I had this in mind and kept waiting for the answer. It
was never mentioned. That's not to say I didn't miss it somehow, but I was
waiting for it and it never appeared.
How many of us feel REREADITIS coming on?
OddDodd
ALEX! You're right. You may be the one that pointed that out to me in the
first place. Not the Campbells, the Grants. And it's got nothing to do with
the rape scene mentioned in the previous posts, it's just a raid by the Grants
while they are all on the road.
Charles Pierce
believe she'd get lost in her passion enough to ignore 20 men laying
about. I suppose I too would have to feel that I'd narrowly escaped
with my life so what the hell, what are a few inhibitions compared to
getting knifed?
Mary
OddDodd wrote in message
<19990128093812...@ng139.aol.com>...
Paige
>
> Also an interesting deletion is in Cross Stitch. There is a scene when they
> are on the road and are attacked near some rocks by Campbells (I believe).
> Claire was learning to use a dirk earlier in the day, then they are attacked at
> dark and Claire hides out in some rocks? I'm trying to refresh your memories
> scenes between Jamie and Claire right there on the rocks which is not in Cross
> to me and I had to go in and reread both books and then, as with all the things
> that are deleted, ponder the why of it all. It is quite fun to read them and
> compare and as this thread has been continuing I have been fighting the losing
> battle of the reread!!!!! The only thing stopping me at this time is I'm in
> the midst of another book (a rather small paperback, thank goodness) and the
> ridicule of my family saying AGAIN?!?!?!?!?!
>
> The Old Laughing Lady )O(
It was when they (J & C) were discussing wether or not she was a spy.
He said something about under the breasbone straight and quick and that
he'd die happy man. Anyhoo, he told her to keep it. Later that
night, they are sitting around the fire telling stories. Claire
notices changes in the men when suddenly out pop the Grants. She hides
between the rocks. Drops her dirk. *the missing CS scene* Jamie talks
of how fighting makes him - ehem...- horney. There we have the
"terrible cockstand". The next morning they find her dirk where she
dropped it and she admits to not knowing how to use it, then they teach
her. Later she uses the technique in the rape scene. Did I get it
right?
--
Paige
GO LEAFS!!!
proud to be Outlandish
My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves me completly.
God put me on earth to accomplish a certain number of things.
Right now I am so far behind, I will live forever.
JESUS LOVES YOU. It's everybody else that thinks you're an ass.
Paige
> The Old Laughing Lady )O(
I'm currently re-reading DiA and it's not in there so far - I'm almost
done. The only reason I'm reading DiA and not OUtlander is because I
can't find it! Arrgghh.....Oh well :)
--
Paige
GO LEAFS!!!
proud to be Outlandish
OddDodd
Yes, you did. Now I won't feel so bad about it if I don't have time to go look
it up. That is the scene I was referring to.
:-)
seefacat the cat
while i was reading the 4 books, i found i didnt like claire all that
much. i mean, if i knew her in real life...id prolly want to slap
her. she is sposed to be this strong woman who can take care of
herself etc etc etc...but i found her crying fits and fainting a bit
erm not in character. and her and jamie shagging at every opportunity
ugh! passion is one thing but after awhile i started skipping over
pages just to get back to the story. i loved the books, dont get me
wrong, i went to lots of the places mentioned in them just to see what
claire saw, and since i study scottish history it was great to see it
through the eyes of a woman. but my god claire!!!! get yer dress on!
Avril
imascot
> > Jamie's intro to Claire in OL. Now that I know I have lapsed mental abilities,
> > I think that Claire talks about it in a later book that Jamie had been
> > introduced to her as MacTavish when she first met him. Well - now I'm gonna
> > have to find that section - somewhere in one of those four very big books-
> > cause I know I read that Jamie was introduced as MacTavish, even if I didn't
> > really, really read it! : )
> > Nancy
>
> which book the reference may be in.
>
> anyone have a clue?
I'm thinking it must be later on in Outlander, in one of the many scenes where Jamie is telling about his family, his
past--including France, how he came to be bonked on the heid (by Dougal, he thinks), all the subterfuge of the Mackenzies
wanting the Fraser lands because they're a passageway to............wherever it was they wanted <g>. Doesn't he explain to her
somewhere around there why he used the name MacTavish??
This is going to drive us all nuts. Anyone try the LOL board and see if they know anything about it?? I would, but I'm short
on time tonite. Colleen, you do it!
--
cest moi
Sign seen in pub window:
Elvis fans only. Violators will be shook up.
TrinityApp
just how many of the castle maids had been in the alcove with James
MacTavish. She then says that he went by MacTavish no longer and the most
of the castle inhabitants had known who he was anyhow.
--
Tracy Meisenbach
www.trinityapp.com
Trinity Appaloosa Farm
NG's Rule 1. You have the right to remain silent.
Anything you say will be misquoted,
then used against you.
Colleen Lill wrote in message <36B0FEBA...@home.com>...
>
>
>Nicklshort wrote:
>
>> >Ya know, I still can't rid of the feeling that all of this may have been
>> >explained in a later book, such as DiA? I'm sure
>> >that I read the explanation somewhere too.!!
>> >
>> >Colleen
>>
>> Ya know Colleen, I think you're right. I thought that after I looked for
>> Jamie's intro to Claire in OL. Now that I know I have lapsed mental
abilities,
>> I think that Claire talks about it in a later book that Jamie had been
>> introduced to her as MacTavish when she first met him. Well - now I'm
gonna
>> have to find that section - somewhere in one of those four very big
books-
>> cause I know I read that Jamie was introduced as MacTavish, even if I
didn't
>> really, really read it! : )
>> Nancy
>
>
>phew...... I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this way!!!! Now....
for the life of me, I don't have the faintest clue
>which book the reference may be in.
>
>anyone have a clue?
>
>
Colleen Lill
ALIXGUNN
explained in a later book, such as DiA? I'm sure that I read the explanation
somewhere too.!! <
Claire figured it out for herself....She was a stranger bursting in on a group
of men harbouring a fugitive.
If they'd called him "Mr. Smith", I'm sure we wouldn't all be in a dither like
this <G>
No explanation will follow.
Arleen
abrasive, and just not likable. She grew on me by the end of Outlander, and
I could understand her a bit more. I do enjoy the more *passionate* scenes
with her and Jamie though, they seem to add to the story for me in some way.
I like to read Jamie's reactions and such. Could be just my weird perversion
though...(GGG!)
Arleen
seefacat the cat wrote in message <36b0ca0a...@n3.idirect.com>...
Marie Keller
Outlander. The first was at the table, just after young Hamish says grace.
The second is when Jamie accepts the beating in place of the young lady. He
is called Jamie MacTavish. The next is when they have settled in at the
castle and she is taking food and eating with the new horse handler.(Jamie)
"he smiled at me. "Ye'll have gathered the name's not MacTavish?" From there
he explains why he is called MacTavish. I haven't read any further to
discover more. I just bought mine, but it is an older publication, it seems.
Jeannette
isab...@honey.bernstein.com wrote in message
<78nat7$2gu$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
>When I first read the postings, I could have sworn myself that he was
>introduced in Outlander. So it began driving me nuts! My husband almost
>laughed himself silly when he saw me baraging thru the books to find the
>reference.
>
>Isabella
>
>
>In article <78lvvg$59j$1...@news.cmc.net>,
> "David & Carol Morris" <club...@cmc.net> wrote:
>> Thank you for checking! It was personally making me nuts trying to search
>> for it!
>> CM
>>
>>
>
R. Shrimpton
>
> So far I have discovered four referrences to Jamie's name of MacTavish in my
> Outlander. The first was at the table, just after young Hamish says grace.
> The second is when Jamie accepts the beating in place of the young lady. He
> is called Jamie MacTavish. The next is when they have settled in at the
> castle and she is taking food and eating with the new horse handler.(Jamie)
> "he smiled at me. "Ye'll have gathered the name's not MacTavish?" From there
> he explains why he is called MacTavish. I haven't read any further to
> discover more. I just bought mine, but it is an older publication, it seems.
>
> Jeannette
>
Yes, but he isn't ever introduced to Claire as MacTavish before she
calls him that. She just seems to pick it out of nowhere because the
introduction was cut from OL.
Rune
OddDodd
calls him that. She just seems to pick it out of nowhere because the
introduction was cut from OL.<<
Right - that's what we're dissecting here, is was he ever **introduced** in OL
to Claire as MacTavish. :-)
ppre...@my-dejanews.com
;-)
I think that the question really is not "Why did she call him Mactavish?" but
"Why didn't she just call him Jamie?"
In Outlander, he is always just called Jamie, so the question of where did
MacTavish come from has merrit (IMHO). It would be like my introducing myself
as Paige and having domeone call me Mrs. Thompson... see?
'Sides, it gives us something to talk about untilthe compainion comes out
<grin>
--
Paige
GO LEAFS!!!
proud to be Outlandish
I didn't fight my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian.
(send e-mail to ppwa...@sympatico.ca)
jody
to like her more in the later books and Jamie a bit less.....
Anyone else feel this way?
Jody
OddDodd
valerie1
they did in the other three. I given it a lot of thought and it might be
because it's not written as much in the first person. A lot of it is
Brianna and Roger's story, which is fine I wanted to know about them, but I
think I just felt more like I was watching the story and less like I was
apart of it.
Valerie
jody wrote in message <79d249$62i$1...@news.laserlink.net>...
Paige
>
> To be completely honest, no one in Drums of Autumn grabbed me quite like
> they did in the other three. I given it a lot of thought and it might be
> because it's not written as much in the first person. A lot of it is
> Brianna and Roger's story, which is fine I wanted to know about them, but I
> think I just felt more like I was watching the story and less like I was
> apart of it.
> Valerie
Yes, that's exactly it! I could never quite figure out why I didn't
like DoA ads much as the rest, but I think you hit the nail on the head.
Also, in rereads, I usually sort of skim through the Brianna-Roger
stuff. I guess my heart is only big enough for Jamie and Claire :-)
--
Paige
GO LEAFS!!!
proud to be Outlandish
I didn't fight my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian.
Annie7m
that's what i love about rereads....i can just skim through the parts i dont
like that much.for instance, in voyager (i think) i always skim through most of
claire's flashbacks to when she has just returned from the past (in the
hospital w/frank, etc)...
-annie
David & Carol Morris
felt like to be pregnant. Also loved it when she talked about the wondering
if it's a boy or a girl- hope that's not too obscure- but obscure enough not
to ruin it for anyone!
Carol Anne
Colleen Lill
jody wrote:
> I felt the same way about Claire in the first books but I found that I began
> to like her more in the later books and Jamie a bit less.....
>
> Anyone else feel this way?
Nope. I really really like Claire's character right from the start. She's a smart lady, can fend
fer herself and won't take any (well, only a little bit) guff from men. Jamie, well, he's just
about all we could ask for in a man. I also liked Jenny very much.
colleen
>
>
> Jody
metz3
>
> jody wrote:
>
> > I felt the same way about Claire in the first books but I found that I began
> > to like her more in the later books and Jamie a bit less.....
> >
> > Anyone else feel this way?
>
> Nope. I really really like Claire's character right from the start. She's a smart lady, can fend
> fer herself and won't take any (well, only a little bit) guff from men. Jamie, well, he's just
> about all we could ask for in a man. I also liked Jenny very much.
I completely agree. Recently, I was saying to a friend who just finished
the 4 books and was mourning the loss that, like all of us here, I would
like a man like Jamie but I want to be Claire. Sad to realize that neither
of these ambitions is likely to come true. Ah well, may just have to
re-read the books again.
Jackie
--
To reply please remove the j from the address
Ealasaid
metz3 wrote:
I agree to. Just got Cross Stitch from Amazon.com.uk Will start rereading again soon.
Libbi