Jenny's reaction to Claire's reappearance
Alexa James
I've been thinking about the above thread on Jamie and Laoghaire's
marriage and thought this was a good time to start this thread.
What REALLY bothers me about the whole section in Voyager where they
return to Lallybroch is Jenny's reaction. I've read it and read it
and I still don't understand why she reacted as she did, trying to
drive Claire away.
I KNOW what Diana intended the explanation to be - that Jenny was
afraid for Jamie's safety if Claire took him away. But it doesn't ring
true to Jenny's character for me. She's never been a coward, she's
never been afraid of the consequences of following her heart. She
encouraged Jamie to fight in the Rising even though that might have
led to his death. How is this different? The relationship she had
with Claire was so close and she of all people understood how much
Jamie loved and missed Claire - if she really wanted her brother
happy, I would think she would be happy Claire was back.
Alexa
PS I also don't understand why Jamie and Claire never told Jenny and
Ian where Claire really came from. Obviously, J & I are educated
people and good at keeping secrets. Seems like it would have helped
things a lot!
Fran Bragg
I kind of got the feeling that Jenny was a little spooked by Claire.
She "saw" her when Jamie and Loaghaire were getting married and then to
have her suddenly return after 20 years with no satisfactory explanation
made her a little wary. Also perhaps she was worried that Claire would
just disappear again and what that would do to Jamie for a 2nd time!
Fran
ALIXGUNN
>She encouraged Jamie to fight in the Rising even though that might have led to
his death. How is this different? <
trapped into it by the Prince, who signed his name to a public notice
announcing His backers. Jamie had every intention of staying at Lallybroch and
growing old. The only thing Jenny did
at that point was to insist that Jamie take Ian with him - to help Ian feel
whole again. NO ONE wanted the men from Broch Turach
involved in the Rising.
> The relationship she had with Claire was so close and she of all people
understood how much Jamie loved and missed Claire - if she really wanted her
brother happy, I would think she would be happy Claire was back.<
With so many posters on the boards writing that they can't understand
why Claire didn't look for Jamie sooner.....
Jenny loved Claire like a sister. She loves Jamie - never wanted to lose him -
and that seems like all that ever happens. Jenny was told that Claire was dead.
Now she pops up again, very much alive.
Like those posters on the boards : why didn't she look before?
I'm sure Jenny feels betrayed. Claire deserted her brother and his family.
...... It doesn't have to be true. This is, after all, still in the knee-jerk
stage. Jenny hasn't known about Claire's return long enough to become easy and
secure in it yet.
She isn't a coward. She is - in a way - fighting to keep her "family"
together. But she admits when she is wrong ( - and that's
not the easiest thing to do)
ALIXGUNN
Exactly. She's protecting her family.
And, BTW - if Claire managed to get away safely from Culloden,
why didn't she take Jamie with her.?....There have to be questions
that still bother Jenny.
JWolste695
Also, it is 20 years later and Jenny is not exactly a young woman any longer.
The older you get, the less brave you are about some things (I know!!). Jenny
realizes she's mortal and that time is the enemy, so any time without Jamie
will be torture to her. Her way of dealing with it is to hope Claire goes
away, although, as Alix or another poster said, she knows that Jamie's heart is
with Claire.
Jani
Alexa James
On 24 Feb 1998 13:30:18 GMT, alix...@aol.com (ALIXGUNN) wrote:
>>She encouraged Jamie to fight in the Rising even though that might have led to
>his death. How is this different? <
> No one encouraged Jamie to fight in the Rising. Re-read ....he was
>trapped into it by the Prince, who signed his name to a public notice
>announcing His backers. Jamie had every intention of staying at Lallybroch and
>growing old. The only thing Jenny did
>at that point was to insist that Jamie take Ian with him - to help Ian feel
>whole again. NO ONE wanted the men from Broch Turach
>involved in the Rising.
>
Uh uh. When Charles' letter comes to Jamie at Lallybroch and he
realizes that in spite of his best efforts, he and Claire have been
unable to prevent the Rising, Jenny says to him, (paraphrased!) "The
only thing you can do now is fight." She doesn't even know about all
the time travel stuff and she's still telling him he has to go to war.
Ibette
>Uh uh. When Charles' letter comes to Jamie at Lallybroch and he
>realizes that in spite of his best efforts, he and Claire have been
>unable to prevent the Rising
Alexa:
Yes, that too. But Alix was right when she said that Charles had forged
Jamie's name on the banns. That was when Jenny said he must go and help
Charles Stuart win. She then asked him to take Ian, but Ian refused, saying
he'd stay at Lallybroch and guard Jamie's "weak side."
Alexa James
I know Jamie's signature was forged. All I'm saying is that Jenny
didn't seem to have a problem sending Jamie into danger then. Why the
sudden turnaround later when she thought Claire's return might be
dangerous? That's a far less tangible threat than a war was.
JenniesCKs
(when I first saw this thread, I thought people were talking about me! lol)
I'd have to say I was slightly puzzled by Jenny's reaction too.
She seemed to be overjoyed when she first saw Claire, but sometime during the
night she decided to tell her daughter to bring Laoghaire to Lallybroch (I was
absolutely shocked she did that!)
I'm not sure why she took it upon herself to force the issue, especially since
she would have know the pain it would cause both Jamie and Claire. I think she
even told Claire as she was leaving it "was for the best". Hello? She knows
how much Jamie loves Claire, and how he couldn't stand to live with Laoghaire.
She later admits that she was afraid Claire would take Jamie away. Haven't
circumstances taken Jamie away before that had nothing to do with Claire???
(the circumstances are just too numerous to count!!!)
To me her reasoning seemed very weak indeed.
jc
ALIXGUNN
> Jenny says to him, (paraphrased!) "The only thing you can do now is fight." <
There was nothing he could do but fight. He was known to be a friend of the
Prince's in Paris - and stated to be one of his followers in the broadsheet.
Therefore - to the English, he is a traitor.
With all these facts known, were he to chose NOT to fight, the Jacobites would
view him as a traitor.
Damned if he does/ Damned if he doesn't.
ALIXGUNN
>I'm not sure why she took it upon herself to force the issue, especially since
she would have know the pain it would cause both Jamie and Claire. <
find out - sooner or later - that Jamie was back at Lallybroch....Jenny has a
habit - if you hadn't noticed - of taking the "bull by the horns" (or her
brother by the balls).
>I think she even told Claire as she was leaving it "was for the best". Hello?
She knows how much Jamie loves Claire, and how he couldn't stand to live with
Laoghaire.<
Claire returns "from the dead". Obviously having been living somewhere
all these years, safe - while Jamie and her family endured hardship. Now - even
if this thought isn't foremost in Jenny's mind at this point (maybe it only
ever achieves the subconscious level) - trouble looms (Leoghaire) and Claire is
leaving again. Granted - it's shock, and we can empathize.
But maybe Jenny sees it more as : "If you're not willing to stand and fight,
here and now - maybe it IS for the best that you leave now.."
RTheo
>She seemed to be overjoyed when she first saw Claire, but sometime during the
>night she decided to tell her daughter to bring Laoghaire to Lallybroch (I
>was
>absolutely shocked she did that!)
Actually, she sent Janet ( I think it was Janet ) to tell Leghair BEFORE Claire
and Jamie got to Lallybroch (Fergus was sent ahead to warn Jenny and Ian).
That is why Claire, Jamie and young Ian meet Janet on the path to Lallybroch.
I think Janet wanted to SEE Auntie Claire before she headed off to inform
Leghair. I think Jeny sending Janet on this mission was a knee jerk
reaction. If Claire were alive and living (in France or wherever) then WHY
didn't she at least send a letter to Jenny in those 20 years... they loved each
other like sisters, right? Well, I bet Jenny felt betrayed by a woman she had
accepted without preamble as Jamie's wife and loved her as the sister she never
had. So maybe she WAS trying to keep Jamie close to home, but also trying to
save herself and Jamie from the pain of being "betrayed" by this woman again.
Rosanne
Alexa James
Thank you, Jenny! You articulated my problems with this passage much
better than I did!
Alexa
> (when I first saw this thread, I thought people were talking about me! lol)
>
>I'd have to say I was slightly puzzled by Jenny's reaction too.
>
>She seemed to be overjoyed when she first saw Claire, but sometime during the
>night she decided to tell her daughter to bring Laoghaire to Lallybroch (I was
>absolutely shocked she did that!)
>
>I'm not sure why she took it upon herself to force the issue, especially since
>she would have know the pain it would cause both Jamie and Claire. I think she
>even told Claire as she was leaving it "was for the best". Hello? She knows
>how much Jamie loves Claire, and how he couldn't stand to live with Laoghaire.
>
JenniesCKs
Someone mentioned yesterday (sorry, I forget who you were) that Jenny had sent
Janet to tell Laoghaire BEFORE Jamie and Claire arrived at Lallybroch.
So last night, I went back to the book...and she was right! I have no idea how
I missed that.
Well, the fact that Jenny (meddlesome lang-nebbit!) sent someone to tell
Laoghaire BEFORE makes it even worse in my eyes. Does she not trust her
brother at all? I hardly think that Jamie would never have told Claire (okay,
so he took his time telling her about Willie, but he did get around to it
eventually). Instead, her interference caused no small amount of heartache for
everyone.
As for the contention that Jenny is angry at Claire for having been in "France"
for 20 years without a word. I'm pretty sure Jenny doesn't buy the France
story. I know for a fact that Ian doesn't. Jamie even tells Claire "Ian's a
good deal too canny to believe it". If Ian doesn't believe it, Jenny doesn't
either.
Jenny later tells Claire that after seeing her ghost at the wedding, she knew
she meant to take Jamie back. Jenny doesn't know where Claire comes from and
says she has no ties to the Highlands. She was afraid Claire would take Jamie
away from the Highlands. Hello??? Claire never took Jamie from the
Highlands!!! Jamie has been taken away from the Highlands in the past through
circumstances that had nothing to do with Claire.
Anyway, I still think the reasoning is a little on the lame side.
Fran Bragg
I'm pretty sure Jenny doesn't buy the France story. I know for a fact that Ian doesn't.
Ian doesn't because he is the one who came up with the story! Remember when young Ian was drunk and accused Claire of being a "filthy whore" before he knew who she was? Here's the passage from Voyager:
"Some o' the auld women at Lallybroch say ye were a wisewoman-a
white lady, or maybe even a fairy. When Uncle Jamie came home from
Culloden without ye, they said as how ye'd maybe gone back to the fairies,
where ye maybe came from. Is that true? D'ye live in a dun?"
I exchanged a glance with Jamie, who rolled his eyes toward the
ceiling.
"No," I said. "I...er, I...."
"She escaped to France after Culloden," Ian broke in suddenly,
with great firmness. "She thought your uncle Jamie was killed in
the battle so she went to her kin in France....."
I think Ian told Jenny that he offered that story but neither Jamie or Claire ever came up with a better excuse which would lead me to believe that he knows for sure now that something weird is in the works. He's just waiting on Jamie to trust him enough to tell him the truth and won't press him for it.
Fran
JenniesCKs
>Fran Bragg <fbr...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>Ian doesn't because he is the one who came up with the story!
Actually, he isn't.
Later, in the courtyard of the church (Claire and Jamie waiting for Young Ian
to finish his confession), Claire asks Jamie if he's the one who came up with
the France story.
He says yes, but "Ian is a good deal too canny to believe it"
jc
Fran Bragg
Actually, he isn't. Later, in the courtyard of the church (Claire and Jamie waiting for Young Ian to finish his confession), Claire asks Jamie if he's the one who came up with the France story. He says yes, but "Ian is a good deal too canny to believe it"
You're right! I had forgotten that scene.
Em N Eric
<<She later admits that she was afraid Claire would take Jamie away. Haven't
circumstances taken Jamie away before that had nothing to do with Claire???
(the circumstances are just too numerous to count!!!)>>
Even had Claire NOT come back at that point, he was going back home to get Ian
and Jenny's approval to take wee Ian with him to France to "get out of the
Fire" right?
Michele
Alexa James
This is a good question and needs its own thread! See below!
Alexa
On Thu, 26 Feb 1998 17:37:33 GMT, Fran Bragg <fbr...@bellsouth.net>
wrote:
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>Later, in the courtyard of the church (Claire and Jamie waiting for Young Ian
>to finish his confession), Claire asks Jamie if he's the one who came up with
>the France story.
>
>He says yes, but "Ian is a good deal too canny to believe it"</I></PRE>
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RTheo
>As for the contention that Jenny is angry at Claire for having been in
>"France"
>for 20 years without a word. I'm pretty sure Jenny doesn't buy the France
>story. I know for a fact that Ian doesn't. Jamie even tells Claire "Ian's a
>good deal too canny to believe it". If Ian doesn't believe it, Jenny doesn't
>either.
But, regardless of where she WAS for the twenty years, she never contacted
Jenny or anyone else, right? Well, unless Jenny knew Claire timetravelled
(which she doesn't know) then Jenny would PROBABLY assume that Claire could at
least get a note to her. That's the point I was trying to make, the part about
France really doesn't play into it. It doesn't matter where she WAS, she
abandoned them, I think, in Jenny's eyes.
JWolste695
Right, Rosanne. I think Jenny was thinking more that Claire deserted Jamie and
was terribly upset by that betrayel. And, telling Jenny about the stones,
well, I agree, she would have pitched a fit knowing a) that Claire left Jamie
for safety and Frank and b) that she's a time traveler and, therefore, the
equivelent of a witch!! It's one thing to tell a scientist/doctor about this,
it's a totally different scenario when it's a supersticious 18th century
woman!! Jani
KL Ussery
Hi all,
Been away for a couple of weeks and catching up.
rt...@aol.com wrote:
>But, regardless of where she WAS for the twenty years, she never contacted
>Jenny or anyone else, right? Well, unless Jenny knew Claire timetravelled
>(which she doesn't know) then Jenny would PROBABLY assume that Claire could
>at
>least get a note to her. That's the point I was trying to make, the part
>about
>France really doesn't play into it. It doesn't matter where she WAS, she
>abandoned them, I think, in Jenny's eyes.
That sounds logical. Mabey Jenny is pissed that Claire never even tried to get
a letter to her. I don't think Jenny believes the France story either.
Kendra
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Always remember you are unique, just like everybody else.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GAMILLE
Hi group,
I just joined this newgroup, and was I ever glas to find it!
I agree that Jenny doesn't believe that Claire was in France - she may have
believed Claire dead, judging by Jamie's anguish. It would explain her
wariness at seeing Claire, because she could never understand why, if Claire
was alive she didn't come to Jamie.
I don;t think she would be angry if she knew the truth, as I read a little
earlier in the group. The result of Claire leaving was a healthy Brianna.
She probably didn't care where Claire was, it hurt Jamie so much.
Sorry if I am repeating any already expressed points of view - as I wrote
above, I just got here.
Gale
KL Ussery
Gamille wrote:
>Sorry if I am repeating any already expressed points of view - as I wrote
>above, I just got here.
Welcome! The more the merrier. I wouldn't worry about repeating. As long as
we are probably going to have to wait for the next book in the series, I'm sure
we'll be repeating ourselves a lot.