Mercedes Lackey: "The Last Straw"
Gyre Hart
All righty then.
The content may have some truth to it, hell I know it does. But folks, I
gotta say the tone and language, patronizing abusive tone is more than I
can handle.
Not only was there the distinct impression that any one without a
standardized view of the world, ie thinks of a higher spirituality than
themselves, is screwed, there was a....
Hell, I'm pissed completely off.
I can understand the frustration, hell I get to live with one of the "big
men on campus" type of guys of the AIDS world (my father, who
unfortunately shares the same name)! I get to answer calls from cranks
cause dad won't get an unlisted number, and we get occassional hate mail
and threats. But does that give me the right to this kind of crap? I
think not. THe patronizing bull....
I'm sorry. I'm outta here. I would like to think this is just some
sicko, but it feels enough like I just got pissed on.
I AM NOT some one she so lovingly described, I DO understand fiction vs
reality, but people, I don't let NOBODY talk to me like that. NOBODY.
GH
--
Fail me not the mind of man,
For I am Dream, the Soul of the Land
Matt Roberds
Hello, readers of alt.books.m-lackey!
My name is Matt Roberds. I have known Mercedes Lackey for about a
year, and her husband Larry for about two years. Since Mercedes
does not have direct Internet access, she has asked me to post
the following message here. In a nutshell, the message is about
people who have twisted the content of some of her books, so much
so that there is now an (US) Federal Bureau of Investigation
involvement with this situation. Read the message from her,
below, for more information.
If you wish to write Mercedes concerning this post, you can contact
her via postal mail:
Mercedes Lackey
P.O. Box 8309
Tulsa, OK 74101 USA
Please do not email me (Matt Roberds) directly. I have no way
of forwarding email to Mercedes other than in hard copy.
Thank you!
Matt Roberds
mrob...@cyberramp.net
Message from Mercedes Lackey follows:
-------------------------------------
Here's the deal. Most of the people who are going to read this are
nice people. Some are nice people who are a little flaky, but that's
cool. Some are nice people who are a LOT flaky, but that's cool, too.
But some are not nice people, and they have real problems. A few of
these are dangerous, and want to manipulate and hurt other people,
including us. We just learned something recently that just happened
to be---
THE LAST STRAW
Mercedes Lackey
This is going to offend some people. These are the people who most
need to read this. This definitely has needed to be said for a long
time. We're writers. We write fiction, which is, by definition, NOT
FACT. Creative and entertaining lies, if you will, but still not
truth by any kind of stretch of the imagination. So, we've written
over 40 books, of which a grand total of three are dark fantasy that
involve the occult, "real" psychic powers, and nonstandard religions.
So what attracts so much trouble and so many lunatics you'd think it
was a "Free beer and come as your favorite psychosis party" in
downtown L.A.? You've got it. The "Diana Tregarde Investigations."
Take, for instance, the undeniable fact that I haven't written (and
at this point, don't intend to write) any more of them. Why? THEY
DON'T SELL. The numbers are there in black and white. DT books are
consistently and vastly outsold by every other type of fantasy we
write. Now some people would decide that there was an Evil Force out
there preventing the sale of their glorious books and determine to
thwart that force and PROVE how wonderful the "unpopular" books are,
but hey, call me nutty, but I believe that people are trying to tell
you something when they don't buy a book, and that is, THEY DON'T
WANT THEM! Why should we write something people don't want? If every
hardcore Diana Tregarde fan bought fifty copies of each book, I could
afford to maybe buy a new VCR with the royalties. There are plenty of
other people who are already writing books people don't want, and
doing it in bigger numbers than we can! Just take a look at the
remainder- racks!
But, oh, the rumors! Conspiracy theories that would make Oliver Stone
burst into tears of envy! Someone periodically starts a rumor that
the publisher is "suppressing" the books---the fact is, that like me,
they want to publish books that are going to compete with our more
popular series. Another is that they have been published, but a
fundamentalist group bought them all so no one else could read them,
ignoring the fact that if anyone bought an entire print-run of
anything, it would be on the New York Times bestseller list! Or my
favorite two rumors, that appeared IN THE SAME WEEK, one that Larry
was a fundamentalist who was preventing me from writing them, and a
rumor that Larry was an evil pagan who was preventing me from writing
them! Then there are the letters taking me to task for not following
the letter-writer's own particular brand of politically correct
neopaganism. THESE BOOKS ARE ENTERTAINMENT ONLY, PEOPLE! I'M NOT
RUNNING A RECRUITMENT BUREAU, HERE! And if YOU want a book featuring
YOUR favorite brand of religion, YOU go out and write and try to sell
one, and good luck and don't let the door hit you on the way out!
They were written at the time when horror was outselling everything
else, and hey, I wrote them to make money. We've got a mortgage to
pay. I suppose by some people's standards that is a heinous crime,
but I'm sorry for offending your delicate little sensibilities.
Actually, no I'm not. Get a life, get a grip, and grow a spine; you
all ought to know by now that we don't do PC. Then there are the
people who insist that the Guardians are real. Hey, if there really
were Guardians, you'd see panicky skinheads buying up the Rogaine
supply like the KKK at a white sale. There'd be no such thing as a
crooked televangelist, when they'd have real demons popping in on
their shows to tell them where they were REALLY going.
"But Guardians must be real," comes the cry, "How could you make
something like that up?" Oh for crying out loud, an "occult police
force" is one of the oldest gizmos in horror fiction! The Nine
Unknown Men, the Hunting Lodges, the White Lodges, Dr. Orient, Agatha
Christie's Harley Quinn, to name a few; there's been more good and bad
books involving occult "police" than there have been books about
vampires! That's FICTION, people! Do you really, truly, think that
if there WERE an "occult police force" they'd have let those kids in
Florida kill their mother and drink her blood, that they'd let kiddie-
porn and snuff-film makers continue to operate, or that they WOULDN'T
make it their business to track down and dispose of serial killers?
What're these guys supposedly doing, punishing junk-bond dealers?
The thing is, on one level I can sympathize with people who would
really like to believe that Guardians are real. The world is a scary
place, and more and more scary things are happening in it, things that
really look as if there was a single evil hand behind it all. Hey, I
wish there were Guardians! I also wish for peace, prosperity and an
end to war. There's about an equal chance for either.
But now we get a little more into the shallow end of the reality pool,
because some of these people claim that the Guardians are this big,
cohesive group watching over everything. As far as that goes, in MY
books, the Guardians aren't even organized! They're about as cohesive
a group as a herd of grasshoppers! The closest thing to
"organization" they have is when two of them run into each other at
the Karaoke Club and find out they both want to sing "Poisoning
Pigeons in the Park." There's NO group meetings, NO politics, no
nothing---yet these same people have invented an entire complex
hierarchy for them, complete with lodge meetings, secret handshakes,
and decoder rings! Cripes! They aren't even reading the books,
they're just reading what THEY want to see into the books!
It gets stranger. A whole lot stranger. We aren't even in the
reality pool, anymore, we're out in the crabgrass around it. There
are people claiming to BE Guardians---and people who claim they would
be Guardians if only some Evil Force wasn't keeping them from finding
their own little Yoda and having their occult powers activated. Okay,
I can even sympathize with this one, because I've been there too.
When your life is in the crapper, you can't get a job that doesn't
involve a paper hat and a nametag, and you think that if you dropped
off the planet no one would miss you for weeks, it's comforting to
believe that all your misfortunes can be blamed on an Evil Occult
Force.
I had myself talked into that one for a while, but at one critical
point I had what the Twelve Step groups call "a moment of clarity,"
when someone else who had bought into the delusion began coming up
with things I knew just weren't true and I realized that the world is
what it is, and it doesn't take an evil force to make it that way---
and that I was doing a better job of keeping myself unemployed than
any Evil Occult Force could. That's when I forced myself to admit
that I had the best chance of making my life better if I just got a
good suit from Goodwill instead of wearing costumes, pounded the
pavement looking for work instead of waiting for a Dream Job to be
given to me, and put more and smarter effort into realistic goals,
like learning computer programming instead of spending all my time
staring at a candle and trying to contact my Personal Psychic Trainer.
That's when I also realized that I really liked making up the stories,
so I didn't give them up, I just stopped telling myself they were
real. And I started writing them down, which was a lot more fun when
other people started to read them and told me how good they were.
But guys, people who tell you that they are Guardians never made that
jette back to coolsville (To quote Dennis Miller). They're still in a
wobbling pirouette that's taking them straight into the orchestra pit.
And here we go right off the end of the bell curve, because the same
lunatics who say that they are Guardians are bound and determined that
I am a Guardian! Jeez Louise, if I had occult powers, would I be
sitting here writing my ass off for a living? Heck no, I'd be out in
Vegas in the VIP suite with half a dozen semi-naked chorus boys
feeding me caviar, that's where I'd be! I'd be cruising the Bahamas
on the way to my own tropical island. I'd have a mansion and fifty
servants, and the biggest aviary outside of a zoo, that's what I'd
have, and I'd have more semi-naked chorus boys to do all the cage-
cleaning and feeding for me! Meanwhile Larry would be winning Le Mans
and Sebring in his unbreakable Lotus (a real occult miracle), and on
the side he'd be having one-man shows at the Guggenheim and his
personal Ford Indygo would be winning the Pebble Beach Concours
d'Elegance. Oh, and he'd also take a few hours off to do some hawking
with his Ornate Hawk-Eagle, taking the prizes for high- catch of the
day, of course. I'd write for fun, when I felt like it, and not every
day, eight hours a day, seven days a week.
Have we got that straight, all you cosmic cupcakes? Do you think if
I had occult powers I wouldn't have KNOWN those freaks in Oklahoma
City were going to blow up a building with a day-care center full of
kids in it practically in my own back yard and have DONE something
before it happened? Do you think if I had occult powers I wouldn't
have warned my friends in Los Angeles to be somewhere else when the
Northridge Quake busted loose? Or warned my parrot-breeder friends in
Florida to get their setups into concrete blockhouses long before
Hurricane Andrew came through? For crying out loud, wouldn't I have
KNOWN Larry's studio was going to have a fire, that our rearmost room
was going to flood, that his car was going to have a wreck, and that
our garage was going to get hit with a tornado???? Wouldn't I have
DONE something to avoid these things? And just because those things
all happened, that DOESN'T mean that I have these cosmic powers and I
either LET them happen or MADE them happen because I am evil! Shoot,
if you're looking for someone with Major Occult Powers, try someone
like Dick Clark---filthy rich, no scandals, and he looks HOW old? Or
Paul McCartney, who hasn't aged a day since 1972. The guy that
invented Pet Rocks---geez, how many of us did he sucker into buying a
road-rock in a cardboard box? Had to have been occult powers. Or---
it has to be the way the world works.
Reality check time, people, here's a whole ROLL of quarters, there's
the clue machine, GO BUY SOME. And people, why would someone who
belonged to a super-secret high-risk occult-society with amazing
powers at her beck and call be stupid enough to draw the attention of
all the Bad Guys by WRITING ABOUT IT? "Hello? Is anyone paying
attention? Oh, no---well, let me just run up a GREAT BIG SIGN that
says 'Guardian here! Come and get me!'" Just what was that supposed
to accomplish? Was I supposed to be looking for other Guardians? But
if I BELONGED ALREADY to this so-called "Inner Circle" why would I be
looking for them? Was I supposed to be recruiting new Guardians?
Guys, that gag is straight out of THE LAST STARFIGHTER. Yeah, that's
a good idea, Gunga Din; let's just raise our profile a lot higher for
the Bad Guys to shoot at, and meanwhile, we'll sort through all the
mail from every guy who ever wanted to levitate and shoot lightning
bolts "Just like in the comic books." Hey, we'll find a LOT of
potential Guardians that way!
Now at this point, if you've somehow been sucked into a group like
I've described, and you've raised these objections, your Fearless
Leader the Great Cranko is saying, "Well of course she'd say THAT, she
wouldn't want to blow her cover"---like it wouldn't already have been
blown higher than a palm tree at Bikini Atoll---but just how many of
those "of course she'd say that"s are you going to accept before your
logic circuit kicks in?
Oh, it gets better! Not only am I a Guardian, but I'm supposedly the
source of (or involved in) political corruption among the Guardians.
The Old Order has gone bad and is trying to suppress the Young Turks
(you know, if I tried to write that plot, my editors would reject it
as being too trite). I helped organize some whoop-de-ding spell-
casting session to "burn out" all of those who wouldn't follow and
obey us. And it's time to destroy the Old Order to make way for the
New, Pure of Heart, Full of---well, it rhymes with "hit." Follow and
obey ME? I can't even get plumbers to finish fixing my pipes on time!
Where the hell did this paranoid delusion come from? If there are any
of you out there who have bought into THIS particular schizoid
fantasy, I have some real harsh words for you. PERSONAL
RESPONSIBILITY.
You are responsible for your OWN thoughts, actions, and attitudes,
dudes and dudettes. Somebody else may preach these things, but YOU
are the one responsible for hanging your logic out to dry, putting
your brain on "record" and forgetting that you're supposed to think as
well as believe. And if your "coven leader" is feeding you this line
of garbage---when you READ that this is the last thing we would
believe in, you SEE and HEAR that our books are preaching compassion
and not trashin', and you can find out with no trouble whatsoever the
amount of charity work we do---WHO DOES LOGIC SAY IS THE REAL BAD GUY?
Whose ACTIONS are consistent with someone who does the right thing as
well as talking about it? Who goes out and tries to help, instead of
blaming some poor fantasy writers for "oppressing him?" And kids, when
he tells you that you are all going to have to destroy the old order
to make way for the new---think REAL HARD for a minute. Those same
words have been spoken by other people who got their followers to go
out and do horrible things FOR them. People like Thomas Mitzger,
Charles Manson and Jim Jones---people who worked up hysteria and
paranoia among THEIR followers then sat back with folded hands while
real blood flowed, and said, "but I am innocent, I haven't done
anything!"
Okay, so maybe all these guys want to do is have you all hold hands
in a circle and try and give me a headache. Hey, knock yourselves
out, have a good time, and don't drive home intoxicated afterwards.
But maybe they want to manipulate you into doing something very bad
in the real world. I've got news for you, kids. IF THEY DO, YOU ARE
STILL RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS. YOU will go down; maybe
embarrassment, maybe to jail---maybe to Death Row. Why? Because YOU
handed over your brain and conscience to a would-be tin-pot dictator
who gets his jollies out of manipulating people he thinks are weak-
willed and suggestible suckers.
And right now some of you are saying "oh that couldn't possibly happen
among fans!" (or pagans, or whatevers). Guess again. It not only
can, it already has. Within my own very limited circle of
acquaintances, I PERSONALLY have VERIFIED with mundane sources---one
man ennobled in the SCA who took on a contract-killing and is
currently in prison for it, one man in fan circles who was convicted
of child molestation and went to jail for it and died there, one man
in RenFaire, sf-convention and pagan circles who was caught and
convicted of multiple torture-murders, one man in fan and SCA circles
who was caught and convicted of setting pipe-bombs in public
buildings. That's just among people I knew.
I'm not the only author who's had their fiction distorted like this,
and it makes all of us want to track the creeps responsible down and
pound them into the ground like tent pegs. But WE are adult,
compassionate, responsible (there's that word again) human beings, and
we know that would be wrong. So we sit in our offices and get death-
threats and wonder which one of these loons is going to be THE one---
and if this time someone is going to get hurt. It might be the psycho
himself, or it might be one of his followers who decides to show up.
Maybe Aleister Junior will egg one of his followers into buying a
Saturday Night Special and go blaze away at a book signing. Most of
us writers are only partly worried about ourselves---because maybe
what happens is an innocent fourteen- year-old flings herself into the
line of fire, or is just standing there getting a book signed, and
becomes a statistic. How the hell do you think we'd feel about THAT?
I can tell you that there are at least some writers---or the people
left behind (if it was the writer who got toasted)---who wouldn't sit
in their offices and wring their hands afterwards. They'd track down
the creep responsible, and for half an hour forget they were adult,
compassionate, responsible human beings and turn him into a thin layer
of red gel on the concrete. It would be wrong, but that's what
they'd do.
Want to make a judgement call on good and evil? Anyone who would be
the instigator of something like that is hardly on the side of the
angels. Anyone who causes that sort of disaster is propagating the
real evil in the world, not some poor hacks writing thrillers to pay
the mortgage.
So before your local wizard who claims to be a Guardian or one of the
Nine Unknown, or the leader of a Hunting Lodge gets you into anything
deeper than some joyful, joyfilled celebrations of life, compassion,
and all that is right and good in the world---maybe you'd better draw
his attention to that paragraph about the thin layer of red gel.
Because sometimes, boys and girls, what you think is a striped worm
turns out to be the tail of a tiger and no magic is required.
###
Now, for all of you who are still with me, if you encounter any of
these people, DO NOT flame them, engage in arguments, post to their
bulletin boards, or have anything whatsoever to do with them. If you
meet them in the real world, DO NOT argue; just smile and nod, back
away slowly, and when their attention is taken away, RUN LIKE HELL.
These are unpredictable people, and they could decide that YOU are the
embodiment of the great evil that is oppressing them.
-----------------------------------
End of message from Mercedes Lackey
David Ball
Well..... That was interesting..... Anyone else get the feeling she
missed her target audience.... I think this answers one thing. She
definately doesn't read this newsgroup. Most of the posts are "off
topic" and the ones that are about misty's work tend to be either
logic arguments about the finer details of velgarth novels, or gripes
about how her latest books (i.e. Silver gryphon) haven't been very
good. I wish she hadn't stressed so much that she's writing for the
money, when that has been a complaint people here have had about her
recent works...
It sounds like being a successful author isn't much fun. Well, this is
one tale where I doubt we'll ever hear the complete story.
-- David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
, \ / , _ ___
/ \ )\__/( / \ _ _@)@) \ ,,/
/ \ (_\ /_) / \ _/o\_ _ _ _/~`.`...'~\ ./~~.
____/_____\__\@ @/___/_____\____ / `,'.~,~.~ . , . , ~|, ,/ .,'
| |\../| | ( ' _' _ '_` _ ' . , `\_/ .' ..'
| \VV/ | ~V~ V~ V~ V~ ~\ ` ' . ' , ' .,
| Happy Birthday | _/\ /\ /\ /\_/, . ' , `_/~\_ .'
|_________________________________| < ~ ~ '~`'~'`, ., . `_: ::: \_ '
| /\ / \\ \ /\ | \ ' `_ '`_ _ ',/ _::_::_ \ _
| / V )) V \ | `'~~ `'~~ `'~~ `'~~ \(_)(_)(_)/ `
|/ ` // ' \|
` V '
Happy Birthday from David, Meth, and Gilbert the alligator!!!!!
Have a case of Virtual chocolate cream pie to celebrate...
Hope you have a great birthday!!!!!!!!!
David Ball
Ooops, sorry. Forgot to turn off the birthday sig before posting...
-- David ( the forgetful )
Jason Hatter
David Ball (db...@mid-ga.com) wrote:
:
: Well..... That was interesting..... Anyone else get the feeling she
: missed her target audience.... I think this answers one thing. She
No. How many people in this NG are silent lurkers? What's the B'day
list/etc up to? 150+ last I heard...and how many of us/them are regular
posters? Maybe 30-40 tops? Just because we don't hear/see from them,
doesn't mean that they don't read this NG.
BTW, anyone know if this also got posted to the rec.sf boards? I'd check,
but i'm supposed to leave for Cali in about 8 hours, so I don't have the
time...8(
--
Jason
http://www.cris.com/~towonder/
RPG stuff at http://www.cris.com/~towonder/rpg.html
featuring Sailor Moon V at http://www.cris.com/~towonder/fanfic.html
Fawbush
Graffiti on the wall from db...@mid-ga.com (David Ball) reads:
>Well..... That was interesting..... Anyone else get the feeling she
>missed her target audience.... I think this answers one thing. She
>definately doesn't read this newsgroup. Most of the posts are "off
>topic" and the ones that are about misty's work tend to be either
>logic arguments about the finer details of velgarth novels, or gripes
>about how her latest books (i.e. Silver gryphon) haven't been very
>good. I wish she hadn't stressed so much that she's writing for the
>money, when that has been a complaint people here have had about her
>recent works...
All I have to say is that I can understand how she's feeling. It
hasn't actually happened to me yet on that scale--as if I were a
famous, *published* author!--but people have misunderstood my
writing, and I tend to get a little PO'd myself when they do
that... (NOT comparing myself to Misty here, just stating a
fact!) And about writing for the money... Well, writing just
for the hell of it may or may not pay the bills. Sometimes
writing for the money may not be a choice. I'm sorry when it
happens to my favourite authors, because it tends to mean that
the books they write are a notch or two below the ones they wrote
because they liked to write...
</rant>
>It sounds like being a successful author isn't much fun. Well, this is
>one tale where I doubt we'll ever hear the complete story.
Personally, I wouldn't want to be a big famous author. Too many
people trying to read into your books just what they want to
hear.
Star Creature (the would-be writer)
* * * * * * * * * *
http://members.tripod.com/~FawbushSa/
http://www.angelfire.com/in/youngwriters/
* * * * * * * * * *
"Count no mortal happy till he
has passed the final limit of his life
secure from pain."
--*Oedipus Rex* (Sophocles)
Hart
Hollie wrote:
>
> >THE LAST STRAW
>
> >Mercedes Lackey
>
>
> I hope to all the gods that this is a troll. I have a very strong
> suspicion that it isn't. Sigh.
>
> I'd think someone who could create such incredibly caring and
> compassionate characters might have a teensy bit of respect for her
> readers. Did she come off as a self-righteous bitch to anyone else,
> or was it just me? I don't think I'll ever be able to read anything
> of hers again without hearing this bitterness in the background.
>
> Gee, and I was having such a good day...
>
> Terribly disillusioned
> Hollie
Just back to see if anyone else had the same reaction. Good to know I'm not
WAY off the deep end.
Hollie, I had the same reaction, to the letter. I, however, freaked all over
the screen. THanks for the calmer note.
Gyre Hart
undecided about all this
Danielle LaDawn Williams
Hi everyone!
Wow! The response to this was vicious. Too bad I missed the initial
post, because I just joined this newsgroup. What was it about?
Danielle
\ /
----------------------------vvvV--@---@--Vvvvv---------------------------------
Danielle La-Dawn Williams University of Michigan
Computer Consultant http://www-personal.umich.edu/~willdee
Business School wil...@umich.edu
I haven't lost my mind -- it's backed up on tape somewhere.
Leah Peasley
Observations:
It seems that from the reactions I have seen that some people have
taken this entirely too personally. Simply put, it is not directed at a
great many of us who post or lurk around here, although I do believe that
some of the target audience is in attendance. So, if it was not directed
at you, then the words that might have seemed harsh, SHOULD just pass you
by. Let it go. They might have been posted, but that does not corespond
directly to having been said to you and having be meant to piss you off.
So, ask yourself, are you a member of the target audience?
If the answer is no, then simply read her statment if you wish,
but you have no basis on which to be offended. If you see two people in
an argument, do you get offended by what one is saying to the other? No.
If the answer is yes .. then .. well .. I will quickly back away
and run like hell. ;>
//Leah
Hart
The point has been missed.
Those of us NOT included in the discussion have been offended by the
argument, not for content so much as style. We have aspoused the ideal of
MLackey's books, no one true way and various other philosphical credos.
The fact that they are catch phrases for some basic moral codes is not new
to us. However to have the author of such ideal, in other words some one
who purposely laces her text with a set of ideals, basically throw them out
the window and work exactly opposite of said ideals is a little harsh.
While I in no way would like to be in her position, nor do I expect her to be
any less or more than a human being (which means we all have values and
ethics that we don't always uphold), to so violently ignore them is
annoying. Not only that, outside of the whole debate over author versus
content I really would want to slap a person who throws out that kind of
commentary onto the net. It was a rant. A rant meant to be hurtful and
personally, I don't give a flying donut if it's aimed at me or not, the point is
I don't like having to read it. THe only rule for this group is no flaming,
what in hell was that?
About author versus content. I do not beleive any author should have to
live up to the content of their work. Lord knows I wouldn't want to.
However the complete disregard for the "be good" theme, acknowledging
others differences and opions as valid, seems to be missed.
I really don't care what others think, or say. About me, or anyone else.
But when I get told, included under the umbrella of "flakes, all of you out
there", to piss off, I'm sorry that I get a wee tad annoyed. For despite the
fact that supposedly this was aimed at a set of specific people the tone was
very much "all of you out there, piss off and leave me alone, all readers
are... blah blah blah"
THe problem that immediately sinks in is the incredible slap in my face. I
am a very private person, and tend not to discuss my beliefs, but for the
record, the closest I can come to a label is "pagan". And frankly the whole
rant makes fun of, devalues and mocks anyone who claims to be "pagan" or
believes in something not tangible, like lord knows Jesus is.
Again, I'm sorry, but to have some one known to espouse the ideal of fair
play in her works, the woman completly ignored it and I am annoyed.
CAn I not take it personally when the person I'm here to basically spend
time putting on a pedastal for good writing, or at least good fantasy worlds,
turns out to be soo unlike her work as to make me wonder how in hell she
ever wrote anything so caring when she obviously couldn't care less?
Because, no matter my personal feelings, to treat anyone who basically
doesn't believe or mentally work the way I do in such a demeaning way is
wrong. I have enough friends who have mental problems to know, there is
no need or right to treat people with the contempt she did. Threatening is
wrong, and should be stopped, but to degrade people and make fun of them
for wishing to believe in something (as the bloody author you'd think she'd
want to too) other than themselves. While she allows that that is nice, the
whole tone is (kay, the harps can come in now) mocking.
I think I've said my piece and feel better. Cause I just realized how I feel
about this. I cannot see a reason for ever reading her books again. THe
group is made of ideals and friends, and frankly I'd as soon get rid of her
before my friends. But I will not be able to read her stuff again. What
would be the point?
I sure as hell couldn't enjoy it.
Gyre Hart
<making a run at his longest post ever...>
KrissyBee
Hollie (ehvi...@pop.uky.edu) wrote:
: >THE LAST STRAW
: >Mercedes Lackey
: <snip of rant>
: I hope to all the gods that this is a troll. I have a very strong
: suspicion that it isn't. Sigh.
I was wondering about that myself...
: I'd think someone who could create such incredibly caring and
: compassionate characters might have a teensy bit of respect for her
: readers. Did she come off as a self-righteous bitch to anyone else,
: or was it just me? I don't think I'll ever be able to read anything
: of hers again without hearing this bitterness in the background.
: Gee, and I was having such a good day...
: Terribly disillusioned
: Hollie
it's not just you, although in my current mental/emotional state
I am not terribly inclined to give people much slack. Over the past
week, and esp the last few days, I have been hypersensitive to people
being negative toward others.
Kris
--
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
A procrastinator is just a perfectionist who got tired.
-Robert E. Hardy
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
KrissyBee
Hart (ha...@hivnet.ubc.ca) wrote:
--snip--
: CAn I not take it personally when the person I'm here to basically spend
: time putting on a pedastal for good writing, or at least good fantasy worlds,
: turns out to be soo unlike her work as to make me wonder how in hell she
: ever wrote anything so caring when she obviously couldn't care less?
--snip--
: I think I've said my piece and feel better. Cause I just realized how I feel
: about this. I cannot see a reason for ever reading her books again. THe
: group is made of ideals and friends, and frankly I'd as soon get rid of her
: before my friends. But I will not be able to read her stuff again. What
: would be the point?
: I sure as hell couldn't enjoy it.
: Gyre Hart
: <making a run at his longest post ever...>
And that is that saddest part of this whole thing...that by directing
such a negative, rude, bitchy, downright nasty commentary to all her
fans, not just those that are supposedly the targets, ML is going to
lose those fans who genuinely enjoyed her work and didn't take it to
weird extremes. I know that I am not one of those people to whom
the tirade was directed. Frankly, I have never even READ the books in
question. But I sure felt personally attacked by the viciousness of
the message. How is this possible? When all those African-American
churches were being burned in the South, didn't African-Americans whose
churches were not burned also feel personally attacked? I see this
in the same light. I don't know if I will take the same step as Gyre
and not read her stuff again. But as Hollie said in another post, it'll
be difficult to do so without recalling this rather abusive post.
Kris, who hopes that even if Gyre leaves behind ML's books, he won't
leave behind his friends he met through his previous enjoyment of the
books...
Firesong
Firesong notes that Matt Roberds spake thusly.
>Hello, readers of alt.books.m-lackey!
>
>My name is Matt Roberds. I have known Mercedes Lackey for about a
>year, and her husband Larry for about two years.
<All gone>
Well, I'd just like to point out that any lady out there who wants to
treat me as a guru and do anything I say is more than welcome. <G>
Meanwhile, That could have been ML. The style could have been hers. I'm
going to take it as a rant at people whose obsessive life is so foreign
to me, I have trouble comprehending it. I'm going to say, "If she's
getting threats from these nutbags, she has a right to be pissed."
I am going to send a *HUG* to Misty and then go on.
Listen guys, don't get upset. It's just steam. How would you feel if
someone stomped all over what you do? It's not aimed at you (unless
you're a nutbag).
Now, who's for a nice juicy argument on exactly what colour white
leather is?
Firesong
--
Web Page : http://www.firesong.demon.co.uk/ - Last Updated : 25th Jan 1997
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
KrissyBee
Firesong (fire...@firesong.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: Listen guys, don't get upset. It's just steam. How would you feel if
: someone stomped all over what you do? It's not aimed at you (unless
: you're a nutbag).
: Now, who's for a nice juicy argument on exactly what colour white
: leather is?
: Firesong
Ah, good ol' Firesong trying to keep us in perspective :) I wonder
if those others who took offense (as I did), also had a crappy week in
RL (as I did) and therefore were more sensitive to the message
(as I was)?
BTW Firesong, I had no idea that you were into leather!
Kris
Jiraad
Okay......
I have to say that i agree with Leah -- those of us who do not do the
things that Misty was talking about shouldn't be offended.
But, I also agree with Gyre -- she was much too abusive and it's going to
cost her some fans and a lot of revenue.
I laughed at parts, because I deal with losers as she describes often in
fandom, but I also was annoyed -- because some of us DO try to make a
difference in the world. I never read the Tregarde Books, I don't know a
Guardian from a Grasshopper, but I do try to protect people from things.
I do believe in otherworldly things and person; and i do believe I have
had contact with them. I believe in Evil, and in fighting it, but the
Evil I fight is in the forms of racism, poverty, and hopelessness, and i
feel as if i was pissed on as well.
Whatever. I'll keep reading her books until they no longer impress me;
rather like my thoughts on Harlan Ellison -- I rarely agree with him, but
he can write very well.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The war we fight isn't against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair.
Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender." -- Narn Citizen G'kar, "Z'ha'dum" (Babylon 5 Season 3 Finale) ---- Written by J. Michael Stracynski
David Ball
>
>Now, who's for a nice juicy argument on exactly what colour white
>leather is?
Of course, first we have to have the nice juicy argument on how to
spell "color" <grin>...
Has anyone else noticed that after being in this newsgroup for a
while, those of us from the USA tend to put extra letters in our
words.... Arrrrrrggggghhh, we're being corrupted by the British and
Canadians <grin>...
-- David
Kasumi
Firesong wrote:
> <All gone>
>
> Well, I'd just like to point out that any lady out there who wants to
> treat me as a guru and do anything I say is more than welcome. <G>
>
> Meanwhile, That could have been ML. The style could have been hers. I'm
> going to take it as a rant at people whose obsessive life is so foreign
> to me, I have trouble comprehending it. I'm going to say, "If she's
> getting threats from these nutbags, she has a right to be pissed."
>
> I am going to send a *HUG* to Misty and then go on.
>
> Listen guys, don't get upset. It's just steam. How would you feel if
> someone stomped all over what you do? It's not aimed at you (unless
> you're a nutbag).
>
> Now, who's for a nice juicy argument on exactly what colour white
> leather is?
>
> Firesong
BRAVO, finally someone with a lick of sense. It was obvious to me that
the message wasn't aimed at anyone who isn't a psychopath. I don't
understand what everyone has been getting so upset about. The lady is
entitled to how she feels, and if people have been acting the way she
says, then I must agree with what she said. I have read the DT novels
and enjoyed them, but have never imagined I was some Guardian out
fighting evil, or that there was some conspiracy keeping her from
writing more (even though I and my husband both would love to read more
of the Diana Tregarde stories) Yes, I would say that the letter was
written in a fit of anger, but having had a psychopath hound my husband
for a time, I can understand how she feels.
Kasumi
Patricia A. Swan
Hart <ha...@hivnet.ubc.ca> wrote:
>Hollie wrote:
>>
>> >THE LAST STRAW
>>
>> >Mercedes Lackey
>>
>> <snip of rant>
>>
>> I hope to all the gods that this is a troll. I have a very strong
>> suspicion that it isn't. Sigh.
>>
>> I'd think someone who could create such incredibly caring and
>> compassionate characters might have a teensy bit of respect for her
>> readers. Did she come off as a self-righteous bitch to anyone else,
>> or was it just me? I don't think I'll ever be able to read anything
>> of hers again without hearing this bitterness in the background.
>>
>> Gee, and I was having such a good day...
>>
>> Terribly disillusioned
>> Hollie
>
>
>Just back to see if anyone else had the same reaction. Good to know I'm not
>WAY off the deep end.
>Hollie, I had the same reaction, to the letter. I, however, freaked all over
>the screen. THanks for the calmer note.
>
>Gyre Hart
>undecided about all this
What I read sounded very familier. It's the sound of someone
who's been pushed, and pushed, and pushed till it had to come
out. And it doesn't sour me on her writing. I've lived with
this stuff over on the B5 groups for a long time. We were forced
to create a new moderated group because of the net.loons, and the
moderators and group proponents became the targets when the loons
couldn't get at Joe Straczynski any longer (and we still tend to
be targets--some of the email we get is *not* nice).
And of course she writes for the money :), all good proffesional
writers do because that is their one-and-only job, and the bills
come in every day. You also can't maintain the kind of output
she does without writing full-time. It doesn't make her bad,
dear Hart, just a realist. And publishing *does* go in cycles.
Something that's hot this year, won't be hot next year.
Publishing is a business, and you simply wind up in the poor
house if you don't accomidate to that fact. Or <grin> as Marion
Zimmer Bradley told me in a workshop one time: "No one ever told
you not to be a plumber."
Hugs,
Pat
--
*Patricia A. Swan, moderator, rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated*
* newsgroup submission address: ras...@solon.com *
* moderator contact address: rastb5-...@solon.com *
* personal contact address: zaf...@cygnus-wnc.com *
Ke'a'char
Hollie wrote:
>
> >THE LAST STRAW
>
> >Mercedes Lackey
>
>
> I hope to all the gods that this is a troll. I have a very strong
> suspicion that it isn't. Sigh.
>
> I'd think someone who could create such incredibly caring and
> compassionate characters might have a teensy bit of respect for her
> readers. Did she come off as a self-righteous bitch to anyone else,
> or was it just me? I don't think I'll ever be able to read anything
> of hers again without hearing this bitterness in the background.
>
> Gee, and I was having such a good day...
>
> Terribly disillusioned
> Hollie
Um...just a point here...but isn't Misty allowed to have a BAD day now
and then? I mean she lives in the middle of Fundie country and I'm sure
that writing that sort of thing in that area can be stressful. Not to
mention, that even though abm-l may not contain the flakes she went off
about, it is a newsgroup about HER so...it ended up being posted here
whether it was a correct target audience or not. I don't mean to defend
the tone of the post but...she's a human being and I was under the
impression that in abm-l...
There is NO one true way.
And anyone is allowed to have a bad day now and then. <sigh> I just
think that missed who it was s'posed to go to. I read it last night and
have given it quite a bit of thought. (In between freaking out because
of what's going on in RL) In a lot of ways...I have to agree with her, I
just don't think it was US she needed to yell at. Y'know?
Ke'a'char (trying to see both sides)
--
I finally got a good grasp on reality--Now I can strangle it!
-unknown
Lady Nataku
Hollie wrote:
> >THE LAST STRAW
> >Mercedes Lackey
> I hope to all the gods that this is a troll. I have a very strong
> suspicion that it isn't. Sigh.
> I'd think someone who could create such incredibly caring and
> compassionate characters might have a teensy bit of respect for her
> readers. Did she come off as a self-righteous bitch to anyone else,
> or was it just me? I don't think I'll ever be able to read anything
> of hers again without hearing this bitterness in the background.
Don't let it get to you too much. There are a lot of people out there who go
after writers as a hobby, and it can make the writer lose their temper, no
matter how even-tempered they usually are. Attribute it to a lot of stress
on her part, and just think that she had to be very upset and worn to a
frazzle when she wrote it. Does it change how good or bad the stories are?
> Gee, and I was having such a good day...
> Terribly disillusioned
> Hollie
There, there.
*HUGGLE*
My day was bad, so this didn't add much to it. Just be charitable; it costs
a lot less effort than being upset. I only write little stories for a small
group of people, and *I've* gotten targetted badly enough to make me cry. It
almost makes me re-think my plans to go professional, if this is the result
of what Mercedes has to put up with because of her writing. Almost.
--L.Nataku
Ke'a'char
Matt Roberds wrote:
Okay gang, I've left the body of this in here because I've seen at least
one post that stated that the person missed it. I just re-read it after
having given it a lot of thought. And whether it was written by Misty or
not...IT MAKES SENSE! Read it again, think it over and look at in the
sense that it wasn't aimed at YOU! And since it's being posted due to
threats she's recieved and there's an FBI investigation going on...let's
just run with "our" Firesong's suggestion and keep reading and having fun
on the group and in her worlds okay? WE know we're not the flakes this
was aimed at. :) Besides. Anyone is allowed to have a bad day. And I'm
keeping the post on the off chance she really did write it! <G> Hey...I
can never get enough Misty...
Ke'a'char
--
Rich & Laurie
judge wrote:
>
> On Tue, 11 Feb 1997 22:12:33 GMT, zaf...@super.zippo.com
> (Patricia A. Swan) scratched on the walls to say:
> ~What I read sounded very familier. It's the sound of someone
> ~who's been pushed, and pushed, and pushed till it had to come
> ~out.
> ~Hugs,
> ~Pat
>
> That was the feeling I got, too, Pat. And I have seen some of
> (admitedly not much) of what she's talking about here.....people
> who post for the first time and want to know "is she a shaman"
> and such.........generally we are able to disabuse them of the
> idea.......or they go away......but that doesn't mean there
> aren't a lot out there who lurk and DO think she must be a
> "practitioner" of some sort. And then there are those who
> "demand" that we discuss only her work........etc....... I'm
> sorry she's having to go through it. I'd hate for her to stop
> writing. Do the "cons" contribute to the "crazies"??????
>
> vicki
>
Well, if it 'tweren't her, at least its someone who read some of her
stuff...ironically, the DT books the message referred to were really the
ones that I was reminded of by the tone and phraseing.
I feel that anyone who is really upset by the message, after due
reflection, may have to plead a bit guilty to confusing the messenger
with the message -- a cynic is only a disillusioned idealist, after
all. I have discovered on several occasions that a creative idol did
not live up to the persona _I_ had created for them...and sometimes I
couldn't handle it and avoided their work forevermore... I wonder if,
philosophically speaking, that is the opposite of loving the sinner and
hating the sin? I don't mean opposite, I mean converse, or maybe
perverse, like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Sometimes I feel it's hypocritical to buy someone's works when I do not
like something about them, sometimes I figure I'm just being objective
about the quality of the work, not letting my opinion of it be
"contaminated" by the creator. After all, I sometimes think Jane Austen
must have been a snitty, self-righteous old cat -- but she wrote so
deliciously!!
Anyway, what the whole tempest in a teapot boils down to for me is
1. Mercedes Lackey is not one of her own characters
2. "Fans" who disagree about this should shut the h^^^ up--I mean,
please have the courtesy not to blow her cover to the bad guys.
3. "Fans" who think she or any other writer is controlling their life
should get a publisher and WRITE BACK!! And maybe even write their own
bestseller. Also, those who fall into this category, please don't tell
anyone else about the evil plans Misty has, because the chances are good
that whoever you confide in will either disbelieve you and sadly have
you committed, or will believe you, debrief you, and gleefully have you
committed.
4. Presumably, Misty (FLAMER) does not have access to Usenet and does
not know how bad-mannered (AND FLAMING) her posting was by net
standards. She did start out by apologizing to people of good will and
reasonable mental competency, and thanks to the man in the white coat
and his collecting policy, we know that this site is replete with the
sanity of every de-lurker ever to post. So only spammers and some
lurkers need to feel that the post was directed at them, and the rest of
us can feel smugly superior.
Perhaps the most important opinion that I can express is that I enjoy
Gyre Harts lyrical and tender postings, and hope that one insensitve
post will not mean I don't get to read any more.
Oh dear!! It's waaaaaay too late... and I have to be in a meeting at
8:15 tomorrow!!!
IMHP, reality is that which, when you strangle it, refuses to go away!!!
-Laurie (The Corrupter of Signatures {and innocent young sheep})
MISQUOTE of the day...
| I don't EAT children. |
> | Kerowyn,By the Sword,124 |
> (@)------------------------------------------(@)
Gyre Hart
Well this proves a few points to my own mind.
Folks, I am withdrawing from the group.
My point was and is, that the message may be clear and real, and I NEVER
said ML had no right to a bad day or to be pushed beyond human limits.
BUT.
I have been poked and prodded, kicked and screwed over, I've been abused
molested and mentally beaten to the point of 7 suicide attempts (one ended
in the hospital) and two nervous breakdowns. AND I'M NOT ALLOWED TO BLOW
MY STACK. Not in my life. So why the hell do I have to put up with this?
And yes, in my life right now there is alot of shit. And? I'm polite,
and tried to fairly put out the point that I don't think the PRESENTATION
was appropriate or useful. I've had to learn how to be blunt without the
bloodshed.
So sorry this offends or seems over the top. But I have personally had
enough bullshite to deal with without feeling like I have no right to be
annoyed at a letter that was inflamitory (spelling be damned) and
abusive. I said as much in calm tones, rationally thought out (at least I
bloody well tried).
So thanks for the lectures on not taking it personally and thanks for the
fun. But the one time I decide to honestly post my opinion, I get the
wonderful patronizing "oh don't take it so seriously"
Another thing.
I DO have a freaking idea what the hell it's like.
And since I'm blowing out all bridges, cause damn am I pissed, might one
of you possible notice that the only thing ANY of you seem to miss is my
writing. THanks for noticing the person.
<yes this is a mirror of the orginal post, but hey, when the hell was the
last time I claimed to be perfect? NOT ONCE. I just tried to be polite.
And the major dif is this is directed at people I know, for actions I'm
certain of>
Gyre Hart
David Ball
>Firesong notes that Matt Roberds spake thusly.
>>Hello, readers of alt.books.m-lackey!
>>
>>My name is Matt Roberds. I have known Mercedes Lackey for about a
>>year, and her husband Larry for about two years.
>
><All gone>
>
>Well, I'd just like to point out that any lady out there who wants to
>treat me as a guru and do anything I say is more than welcome. <G>
Been getting advice from Fluffy again, I see.....
>
>Meanwhile, That could have been ML. The style could have been hers. I'm
>going to take it as a rant at people whose obsessive life is so foreign
>to me, I have trouble comprehending it. I'm going to say, "If she's
>getting threats from these nutbags, she has a right to be pissed."
>
>I am going to send a *HUG* to Misty and then go on.
>
>Listen guys, don't get upset. It's just steam. How would you feel if
>someone stomped all over what you do? It's not aimed at you (unless
>you're a nutbag).
Have to agree with you completely on this Firesong. Looking at it from
her perspective, she has to deal with the weird letters that some
people send. I imagine getting threats is pretty darn scary. She's
probably never read this NG, so she doesn't know much about what goes
on here. Also, since an FBI investigation was mentioned, I have to
wonder if the message was posted on advice from a lawyer. The standard
political trick, if you're being investigated for something, make
strong speeches against it.
Actually, I feel kind of sorry for her. The post was a bit of a shot
in the dark since she doesn't know the people here. I don't plan on
letting it influence whether I buy her books. Some of them are great,
and some of her books I haven't liked.
-- David ( wanders off to the abml barbeque to see if the steaks are
ready )
>
>Now, who's for a nice juicy argument on exactly what colour white
>leather is?
>
>Firesong
>
Dawnfire
I'll go with white...
>Of course, first we have to have the nice juicy argument on how to
>spell "color" <grin>...
>
>Has anyone else noticed that after being in this newsgroup for a
>while, those of us from the USA tend to put extra letters in our
>words.... Arrrrrrggggghhh, we're being corrupted by the British and
>Canadians <grin>...
>
>-- David
<G> Guess I was already corrupt...I've always _known_ the correct
American spellings, but usually prefer the British ones. "Colour"
just has more texture to it :)
Dawnfire
>
>
>>
>>Firesong
>>
>>--
>>Web Page : http://www.firesong.demon.co.uk/ - Last Updated : 25th Jan 1997
>>"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
>
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
"When writers die they become books, which is, after all,
not too bad an incarnation."
--Jorge Luis Borges
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
David Ball
On Wed, 12 Feb 1997 00:20:57 GMT, kfor...@vt.edu (Dawnfire) wrote:
>On Tue, 11 Feb 1997 23:54:04 GMT, db...@mid-ga.com (David Ball) wrote:
[snip]
>>Has anyone else noticed that after being in this newsgroup for a
>>while, those of us from the USA tend to put extra letters in our
>>words.... Arrrrrrggggghhh, we're being corrupted by the British and
>>Canadians <grin>...
>>
>>-- David
>
><G> Guess I was already corrupt...I've always _known_ the correct
>American spellings, but usually prefer the British ones. "Colour"
>just has more texture to it :)
>
>Dawnfire
True....... Actually, it's hard to see the word "colour" without
thinking of the credits on the british shows I watch on tv, and the
little bits of music that go with the British distributer logos...
-- David
Bruce Glassford
db...@mid-ga.com (David Ball) wrote:
>
>Has anyone else noticed that after being in this newsgroup for a
>while, those of us from the USA tend to put extra letters in our
>words.... Arrrrrrggggghhh, we're being corrupted by the British and
>Canadians <grin>...
>
>-- David
Naaah, David - we're just purifying you. Removing that miserly
influence that colours your life by forcing you to drop letters.
<large evil grin>
.... Bruce the lurking purple dragon cleric.
AliceClara
Heyla all!
Just a question...do we have any idea if Mercedes Lackey actually wrote
that? I certainly won't take it on the poster's word that it's hers, but
I would be very interested if anyone knows anything about the person who
posted it and whether he's for real. No offense to anyone intended, of
course, just my common sense caution/skepticism kicking in.
It did seem harsh and totally inappropriate here, but even if it turns out
it's her, I think I can separate the writer from the work myself. I enjoy
her books a lot. :)
Happy reading to you all...
Alice
Dawnfire
On Wed, 12 Feb 1997 00:09:26 GMT, db...@mid-ga.com (David Ball) wrote:
>On Tue, 11 Feb 1997 22:36:16 +0000, Firesong
><fire...@firesong.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Firesong notes that Matt Roberds spake thusly.
>>>Hello, readers of alt.books.m-lackey!
>>>
>>>My name is Matt Roberds. I have known Mercedes Lackey for about a
>>>year, and her husband Larry for about two years.
>>
>><All gone>
<G> Like your way of fixing things, Firesong
I've got to agree, too. When I first read the original post, I wasn't
quite sure what to think about it, even though I knew full well it
wasn't directed toward me in the slightest....but yes, the tone was
belligerent, aggressive, and yeah, maybe annoying in a few places.
However, we've got to keep in mind the way it was intended. It's a
specific defense, not a general attack. Like Star Creature said,
having your work misinterpreted is _very_ uncomfortable and annoying,
and having things read into it wrongly, especially in a case like
this, has got to be _incredibly_ scary, not to mention the anger and
violation. She's had her messages corrupted in the worst of possible
ways, her words twisted (which, as a writer, I consider to be fairly
agonizing), and she personally has been attacked in the bargain.
Imagine what it must be like, to have people take your _stories_,
things which you know are the products of your imagination, as fact.
You know that people who do this are gullible and open to manipulation
at best, and that's got to be scary too, because of the sense of
responsibility that goes along with it. And at worst, horrible people
are using your words wrongly, not even to mention the personal
danger... Given the circumstances, I think the tone was mostly
justified, or at least the anger was, which makes the tone
explainable. The _only_ people the message was aimed toward are
predators and gullible people in danger. Whether it'll do any
good...well, I don't know, but that's a whole different subject. And
then, on the question of whether she was casting aspersions on other
people's religions...well, I somehow can't think she meant to come off
as having a monopoly on worldviews. _But_ it'd be self-defeating to
tell your target audience at once that they need to look at a few
things they believe very closely, and yet reassure them also that all
religions are valid. When you believe something intelligently,
without relying on someone else's fiction to tell you what's what, and
if you are neither predator nor prey...well, then you're simply not a
target for the speech in the first place. Whatever your beliefs are.
That's how I see it anyway, and I hope I haven't offended anyone. But
I don't see any reason to change my belief in Misty as a compassionate
person or my attitudes toward her books. Yeah, it's never nice to
hear your favourite authors write for money, either :)...but, hell, if
I'm ever lucky enough to be able to support myself full-time on
writing, I imagine it'll have to be a consideration if I'm to avoid
starving! And we know she likes writing anyway, 'cause even in her
chorus-boy fantasy she was doing it for fun <G>. Anyway, sorry for
the spiel (...and no, I haven't a clue how that word is spelled). But
y'all should know by now I can't keep quiet for long <G>.
Yes, this is just my two-cent opinion, and yes, judicious use of duct
tape across the mouth has been known to shut me up if necessary! :)
Dawnfire
>>
>>Now, who's for a nice juicy argument on exactly what colour white
>>leather is?
>>
judge
On Tue, 11 Feb 1997 05:37:48 GMT, db...@mid-ga.com (David Ball)
scratched on the walls to say:
~missed her target audience.... I think this answers one thing. She
~definately doesn't read this newsgroup.
It sounds like the lady has definitely been pushed past the
point, and I can't say that I disagree with her much at all. And
while those of us who post here are probably NOT really her
target audience, I can understand her asking that her message be
posted here. She may have requested that it be posted in more
than one place after all.
I have never taken her books that seriously, and tend to feel
sorry for those who do. I've always referred people to her
message in Sacred Ground.......paraphrased, it says something
like "confusing me with what I write is like confusing the
fireman with his truck" or something along those lines.
She's right, David..................there are a LOT of flakes and
wierdos out there who can't seem to tell the difference between
fact and fiction...........and who don't understand that writers
of fiction DON'T necessarily believe in what they write about. I
am REALLY sorry that "fans" and "flakes" made her feel that her
statement was necessary. Maybe my "life of obscurity" isn't so
bad after all.......
vicki
(@)------------]Quote of the Day[------------(@)
| I don't LIKE children. |
| Kerowyn,By the Sword,124 |
(@)------------------------------------------(@)
judge
On Tue, 11 Feb 1997 22:12:33 GMT, zaf...@super.zippo.com
(Patricia A. Swan) scratched on the walls to say:
~What I read sounded very familier. It's the sound of someone
~who's been pushed, and pushed, and pushed till it had to come
~out.
~Hugs,
~Pat
That was the feeling I got, too, Pat. And I have seen some of
(admitedly not much) of what she's talking about here.....people
who post for the first time and want to know "is she a shaman"
and such.........generally we are able to disabuse them of the
idea.......or they go away......but that doesn't mean there
aren't a lot out there who lurk and DO think she must be a
"practitioner" of some sort. And then there are those who
"demand" that we discuss only her work........etc....... I'm
sorry she's having to go through it. I'd hate for her to stop
writing. Do the "cons" contribute to the "crazies"??????
vicki
judge
On Tue, 11 Feb 1997 11:11:20 -0800, Leah Peasley
<ez06...@peseta.ucdavis.edu> scratched on the walls to say:
~Observations:
~ So, ask yourself, are you a member of the target audience?
~ If the answer is no, then simply read her statment if you wish,
~but you have no basis on which to be offended. If you see two people in
~an argument, do you get offended by what one is saying to the other? No.
~ If the answer is yes .. then .. well .. I will quickly back away
~and run like hell. ;>
~//Leah
Thank you. I agree!
judge
On Tue, 11 Feb 1997 22:36:16 +0000, Firesong
~Now, who's for a nice juicy argument on exactly what colour white
~leather is?
~Firesong
[ROTFL&L&L] Thanks, Firesong! We needed that!
judge
~American spellings, but usually prefer the British ones. "Colour"
~just has more texture to it :)
~Dawnfire
[giggle] A post from Misty, and even IT can't stay on topic! I
love it!
Alessan de Tigana
>>to me, I have trouble comprehending it. I'm going to say, "If she's
>>getting threats from these nutbags, she has a right to be pissed."
>Have to agree with you completely on this Firesong. Looking at it from
>her perspective, she has to deal with the weird letters that some
>people send. I imagine getting threats is pretty darn scary. She's
I'm with both of you. Accepting until shown differently that it _was_ from
ML, it struck me as someone reaching the end of their tether after one too
many off-the-wall messages received. Don't tell me none of you haven't had
a time when everything dumped on you at once and you got hit by that
(usually trivial) last straw, and just went ballistic on autofire?
Which usually results in something ill-considered in retrospect, and overly
harsh to those on the receiving end, who often aren't the real target...
---
The Tobacco Institute has determined that smoking just one cigarette
greatly increases your risk of heart attack by making you so incredibly
sexy that gorgeous members of the opposite sex surround you night and day,
begging for intercourse and wearing you into exhaustion. Unless, of
course, you have another couple of cigarettes to steady your nerves.
Alessan de Tigana
Firesong (fire...@firesong.demon.co.uk) wrote:
>Meanwhile, That could have been ML. The style could have been hers. I'm
Aren't there are a number of people on here who either know or are in touch
with people who know ML? Can _anyone_ here corroborate that this person
Roberds does in fact know ML and is in truth passing on her own words?
One person that I don't recall seeing before (not that that in itself
counts for much) posting out of the blue a tirade of that nature, srikes me
as more a troll than anything else. Especially when they immediately take
pains to point out how long they've 'known' ML and Larry, specifically ask
not to have mail directed to themselves, _and_ includes an address that
wasn't identified as ML's publisher, which given her other requests for
privacy I'd rather more expect it to be.
This last item is the one that concerns me the most, if it is a troll.
Whose postal address was given? And what sort of mail is arriving at it if
more people feel the way Gyre does? The paranoid in me looks at this and
sees all too clearly it being a sneaky way of getting even more hate
mail delivered.
Victoreia
Hart <ha...@hivnet.ubc.ca> shared this bit of wisdom:
>Hollie wrote:
>>
>> >THE LAST STRAW
>>
>> >Mercedes Lackey
>>
>> <snip of rant>
[and another snip]
>> Terribly disillusioned
>> Hollie
>
>
>Just back to see if anyone else had the same reaction. Good to know I'm not
>WAY off the deep end.
>Hollie, I had the same reaction, to the letter. I, however, freaked all over
>the screen. THanks for the calmer note.
>
>Gyre Hart
>undecided about all this
On the one hand, I'm just a teensy bit rattled by this. Just wasn't
prepared for it. But, on the other hand, I can also see this as Misty
being fed-up with nitwits. Kinda reminded me of Van and Elspeth about
"glorious fates" and "paths of destiny". (I could also just hear
Elspeth saying (most of) this. Close model of the character, perhaps?)
-- Victoreia
proto-witch, Herald wannabe, & Jedi Knight-in-training
**Reality is a leading cause of stress, for those in touch with it**
Fawbush
Graffiti on the wall from ha...@hivnet.ubc.ca (Gyre Hart) reads:
>And since I'm blowing out all bridges, cause damn am I pissed, might one
>of you possible notice that the only thing ANY of you seem to miss is my
>writing. THanks for noticing the person.
<hurt by the whole post> I always though Gyre was a kind, caring
person.
* * * * * * * * * *
http://members.tripod.com/~FawbushSa/
http://www.angelfire.com/in/youngwriters/
* * * * * * * * * *
"Count no mortal happy till he
has passed the final limit of his life
secure from pain."
--*Oedipus Rex* (Sophocles)
Fawbush
Graffiti on the wall from Ke'a'char
<lazuli...@worldnet.att.net> reads:
>Um...just a point here...but isn't Misty allowed to have a BAD day now
>and then? I mean she lives in the middle of Fundie country and I'm sure
>that writing that sort of thing in that area can be stressful. Not to
>mention, that even though abm-l may not contain the flakes she went off
>about, it is a newsgroup about HER so...it ended up being posted here
>whether it was a correct target audience or not. I don't mean to defend
>the tone of the post but...she's a human being and I was under the
>impression that in abm-l...
>There is NO one true way.
>And anyone is allowed to have a bad day now and then. <sigh> I just
>think that missed who it was s'posed to go to. I read it last night and
>have given it quite a bit of thought. (In between freaking out because
>of what's going on in RL) In a lot of ways...I have to agree with her, I
>just don't think it was US she needed to yell at. Y'know?
Thank you, Ke'a'char! I was trying to find the words to say
exactly that! Actually, her message didn't hurt me anywhere near
as much as some of the replies did...
Star Creature (who was having a good day until she saw Gyre's
counter-rant and realised he was leaving and saying some not-nice
stuff)
Fawbush
Graffiti on the wall from db...@mid-ga.com (David Ball) reads:
>On Wed, 12 Feb 1997 00:20:57 GMT, kfor...@vt.edu (Dawnfire) wrote:
>>On Tue, 11 Feb 1997 23:54:04 GMT, db...@mid-ga.com (David Ball) wrote:
>[snip]
>>>Has anyone else noticed that after being in this newsgroup for a
>>>while, those of us from the USA tend to put extra letters in our
>>>words.... Arrrrrrggggghhh, we're being corrupted by the British and
>>>Canadians <grin>...
>>>
>>>-- David
>>
>><G> Guess I was already corrupt...I've always _known_ the correct
>>American spellings, but usually prefer the British ones. "Colour"
>>just has more texture to it :)
>>
>>Dawnfire
Me too. I keep saying favourite instead of favorite... and
(don't know if this is British spelling or just archaic) I tend
to use S instead of Z for some reason... like "realise"...
Star Creature
Melissa Mays
On 12 Feb 97 19:20:17 +1200, Alessan de Tigana (Alessan de Tigana
<ale...@actrix.gen.nz>) scribbled in electrons:
>Aren't there are a number of people on here who either know or are in touch
>with people who know ML? Can _anyone_ here corroborate that this person
>Roberds does in fact know ML and is in truth passing on her own words?
>
>One person that I don't recall seeing before (not that that in itself
>counts for much) posting out of the blue a tirade of that nature, srikes me
>as more a troll than anything else. Especially when they immediately take
>pains to point out how long they've 'known' ML and Larry, specifically ask
>not to have mail directed to themselves, _and_ includes an address that
>wasn't identified as ML's publisher, which given her other requests for
>privacy I'd rather more expect it to be.
>
>This last item is the one that concerns me the most, if it is a troll.
>Whose postal address was given? And what sort of mail is arriving at it if
>more people feel the way Gyre does? The paranoid in me looks at this and
>sees all too clearly it being a sneaky way of getting even more hate
>mail delivered.
The postal address is the one in the FAQ for High Flight (thank you
for keeping this where I can get to it easily, Fluffy!)
My response to the original post? Could be a troll (I really hope
this is what it turns out to be), _but_ the tone overall is similar to
other posts that have been forwarded here by/for Ms. Lackey and/or her
legal representatives. Sadly, the attitude shown here seems to
reinforce rumors I have been hearing for the last 3 or 4 years, and
have been trying to ignore.
I guess I can say I enjoy the stories/books (for the most part), but I
am coming to the conclusion I wouldn't really like the person writing
them. Sad conclusion, that. ::sigh::
Melissa (going back to lurking)
Hart
Fawbush wrote:
>
> Graffiti on the wall from ha...@hivnet.ubc.ca (Gyre Hart) reads:
>
> >And since I'm blowing out all bridges, cause damn am I pissed, might one
> >of you possible notice that the only thing ANY of you seem to miss is my
> >writing. THanks for noticing the person.
>
> <hurt by the whole post> I always though Gyre was a kind, caring
> person.
THis would be the whole point.
I have been nice and quiet, posting carefully, endlessly, thought out words
and TRYING to think of every angle of any situation before carefully
coughing into the back of my hand and saying, so sorry, but could you
please explain, cause I certainly can't agree with what I think I'm hearing.
And frankly, having that kind of expectation is something I can deal with,
am pleased to live by. However when I'm not only expected to do this, but
asked to accept some one elses rant as ok, when abusive and so on and so on,
I get annoyed. Then when I say, again in an attempted proper manner, hey
I'm not happy about this, I get told "get over it".
I am hurt that I am expected to live by one code and people get to live by
another. I spend a lot of time hating myself for expressing my own
opinion, cause all the training I've got says "shut up" and "I'm worthless".
So to get from quite a few people the attitude that it is fine for ML to write
something like ("like" meaning: in this style, content has NEVER been a
strong issue here) this, let alone anyone else, PLUS I'm to stop taking
anything personally, HURTS.
So yes I said things that were obviously hurtful to some people. To be
honest that goes against everything about me, making this a wonderful
work day. Cause you ever try to explain to work why you're crying? Or
why you're in pain for hurting people you've never met? Despite the
anger that I would love to sustain me, I can't. Hurting others overrides
that.
Which is SO ironic. Cause I get to feel horrible about getting upset. Ain't
life grand?
GH
<who should really stop wondering if people care... cause he then finds
things like this post which NEED to be responded to>
treehugger
On Tue, 11 Feb 1997, Danielle LaDawn Williams wrote:
> Hi everyone!
>
> Wow! The response to this was vicious. Too bad I missed the initial
> post, because I just joined this newsgroup. What was it about?
>
Welcome, welcome, welcome!!! Huh--thought you could get away with a
subtle delurk--not on this newsgroup, sister ;) !! Someone else will
undoubtably fill you in on the rules, so I'll just say check your sanity
with the nice man in white standing by the door and keep all hands and
feet OUTSIDE the bus!! (So to catch all the food that will soon be flying
towards you, of course) Enjoy yourself, and...DUCK!!!
By the way, the original post was an extended rant from Misty her own
self;if you don't see it attached to something drop me a line and I'll
send it to you (I think someone will repost it before that tho)
treehugger
>
> Danielle
> \ /
> ----------------------------vvvV--@---@--Vvvvv---------------------------------
> Danielle La-Dawn Williams University of Michigan
> Computer Consultant http://www-personal.umich.edu/~willdee
> Business School wil...@umich.edu
>
> I haven't lost my mind -- it's backed up on tape somewhere.
>
>
>
Nite Flame
Greetings ABML fans,
I have been a Misty fan for some time. I have thoroughly enjoyed her
Valdemar series, as well as her bardic voices books. I haven't really read
any of the other "modern-day" series that she has out because frankly I
didn't enjoy them. I can only assume that the series that she is
specifically talking about in her rant is one of those. All in all I have
to say that I can empathize with her viewpoint. Yes it was pretty ugly in
tone, however if I had knowledge of henious crimes being done in MY NAME
I'd be pretty ticked off as well. Hey, I've got a pretty active
imagination and have day-dreamed about what it would be like to be a
Hawkbrother. But like she said there is enough evil or wickedness or
selfishness or hate in this world without adding to it. I had NO IDEA that
there were SO Many nut-cases out there. Well I did, but not like this! I
plan on continueing to read and enjoying Misty's books (most of them) I
too have bad days (usually at certain times of the month) who knows- maybe
she just needed to take a Motrin, eat some chocolate, and get it off her
chest. It makes me feel better most of the time. I hope that the target
audience of her rant REALLY reads what she had to say and maybe take some
responsibility like she suggested.
Truly,
Niteflame
Ke'a'char <lazuli...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in article
<330164...@worldnet.att.net>...
> Um...just a point here...but isn't Misty allowed to have a BAD day now
> and then? I mean she lives in the middle of Fundie country and I'm sure
> that writing that sort of thing in that area can be stressful. Not to
> mention, that even though abm-l may not contain the flakes she went off
> about, it is a newsgroup about HER so...it ended up being posted here
> whether it was a correct target audience or not. I don't mean to defend
> the tone of the post but...she's a human being and I was under the
> impression that in abm-l...
>
> There is NO one true way.
>
> And anyone is allowed to have a bad day now and then. <sigh> I just
> think that missed who it was s'posed to go to. I read it last night and
> have given it quite a bit of thought. (In between freaking out because
> of what's going on in RL) In a lot of ways...I have to agree with her, I
> just don't think it was US she needed to yell at. Y'know?
>
> Ke'a'char (trying to see both sides)
antimony (Sarah Bergstrom)
> <who should really stop wondering if people care... cause he then finds
> things like this post which NEED to be responded to>
I think I speak for many of us when I say that the reason I didn't post
anything earlier was that I simply didn't know what to say. People DO
care. I care, even though I'm relatively new here and barely feel. We'll
all miss YOU, not just your eloquence.
So, whether you stay or go, I wish you well and hope that things get better.
*Hugs*
antimony (posted and emailed)
--
Got a hundred thousand questions / And they all begin with why /
Makes a paralyzing work song / And a restless lullaby / From a
quiet mountain spring / Does a roaring river flow / Took a long
time to get here / Got a long way to go... --David Sturtevant
antimony (Sarah Bergstrom) <sber...@swarthmore.edu
Sapphire
On Tue, 11 Feb 1997, David Ball wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Feb 1997 22:36:16 +0000, Firesong
> <fire...@firesong.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Now, who's for a nice juicy argument on exactly what colour white
> >leather is?
>
> Of course, first we have to have the nice juicy argument on how to
> spell "color" <grin>...
>
> Has anyone else noticed that after being in this newsgroup for a
> while, those of us from the USA tend to put extra letters in our
> words.... Arrrrrrggggghhh, we're being corrupted by the British and
> Canadians <grin>...
>
> -- David
>
Actually, I've always tended to use british spellings. I throw extra U's
into words, and tend to use -re endings instead of -er. I have no clue
when I started doing that, but I've had to argue my way out of losing
points on papers for misspellings. They're perfectly acceptable
alternative spellings.
I'd really like to know where I picked up that habit, though, because
I've lived in Minnesota my whole life, and never even met anyone from
England until long after I started using those spellings...
-Sapphire.
*************************************************************
"I'm a firm believer in Black Magic. It's the only way to
go with computers. Just sacrifice the goat and hope the
blood doesn't get on your shoes."
-Nic McPhee (My college CSCI advisor)
*************************************************************
Fawbush
Graffiti on the wall from Hart <ha...@hivnet.ubc.ca> reads:
>Fawbush wrote:
>>
>> Graffiti on the wall from ha...@hivnet.ubc.ca (Gyre Hart) reads:
>>
>> >And since I'm blowing out all bridges, cause damn am I pissed, might one
>> >of you possible notice that the only thing ANY of you seem to miss is my
>> >writing. THanks for noticing the person.
>>
>> <hurt by the whole post> I always though Gyre was a kind, caring
>> person.
>THis would be the whole point.
>I have been nice and quiet, posting carefully, endlessly, thought out words
>and TRYING to think of every angle of any situation before carefully
>coughing into the back of my hand and saying, so sorry, but could you
>please explain, cause I certainly can't agree with what I think I'm hearing.
>And frankly, having that kind of expectation is something I can deal with,
>am pleased to live by. However when I'm not only expected to do this, but
>asked to accept some one elses rant as ok, when abusive and so on and so on,
>I get annoyed. Then when I say, again in an attempted proper manner, hey
>I'm not happy about this, I get told "get over it".
<sigh> I for one had no way to KNOW that you weren't just
open-minded ehough to see both sides anyway. I have only what
you have written here to judge you by. It's something much like
judging people by their appearance--I don't like doing it, but my
mind does anyway when I don't have anything else to fall back on.
And if the rant had been directed at you, I would not be
suggesting that you ought to get over it--but it wasn't, so you
should.
>I am hurt that I am expected to live by one code and people get to live by
>another. I spend a lot of time hating myself for expressing my own
>opinion, cause all the training I've got says "shut up" and "I'm worthless".
>So to get from quite a few people the attitude that it is fine for ML to write
>something like ("like" meaning: in this style, content has NEVER been a
>strong issue here) this, let alone anyone else, PLUS I'm to stop taking
>anything personally, HURTS.
I'm not sure it's "fine" for her to write something like that,
but I wish people wouldn't take it so personally. It was
obviously not aimed at any of the regularly-posting here, so
there is no reason for anyone to start actiting like some people
have been!
>GH
><who should really stop wondering if people care... cause he then finds
>things like this post which NEED to be responded to>
We care! Just because we have a (sometimes major) diagreement
does not mean we don't care!
Star Creature (who is amazed to find that she actually does have
tears beginning to form--be proud of yourselves, people...)
Fawbush
Graffiti on the wall from spirit...@citynet.net (Melissa Mays)
reads:
>I guess I can say I enjoy the stories/books (for the most part), but I
>am coming to the conclusion I wouldn't really like the person writing
>them. Sad conclusion, that. ::sigh::
>Melissa (going back to lurking)
<wiping eyes for a moment to greet the delurker> You're not
allowed to go back to lurking. <weak attempt at a smile> OK,
sorry, I'm just feeling too gloomy to greet you properly, with
all the "rules" (yeah, right...) and such. So have a nice
cheesecake... <handing cheesecake to Melissa> ...and don't be
driven off by this, please.
Star Creature (the attempting to be welcoming)
theae...@aol.com
Im Artikel <19970211222...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, jir...@aol.com (Jiraad) schreibt:
>Okay......
>
>I have to say that i agree with Leah -- those of us who do not do the
>things that Misty was talking about shouldn't be offended.
>
>But, I also agree with Gyre -- she was much too abusive and it's going to
>cost her some fans and a lot of revenue.
>
>I laughed at parts, because I deal with losers as she describes often in
>fandom, but I also was annoyed -- because some of us DO try to make a
>difference in the world. I never read the Tregarde Books, I don't know a
>Guardian from a Grasshopper, but I do try to protect people from things.
>I do believe in otherworldly things and person; and i do believe I have
>had contact with them. I believe in Evil, and in fighting it, but the
>Evil I fight is in the forms of racism, poverty, and hopelessness, and i
>feel as if i was pissed on as well.
>
After having read the Post and the responses, I think I'm out of my "slapped-in-the-face" feeling. Even if it isn't targetted at me (I never read the Diana Tregarde books; I never had anything to do with the fandom (except abml)... I just now try to look them all up here /see my homepage/), it is so harsh that I had a hard time of finding my balance back.
I'm not so touched (negative) that I will never more read any of her books, but I would give ML the advice I once got from my chefredacteur at our school-newspaper:
Write your article three days after you got offended
Let the article lie for the next two days
Read your article at the third day after the writing and sleep over it
Rewrite your article after you've had a good night's sleep
One week after you got offended give the article to a person you trust and let her correct it.
Only at the 8th day you shall publish it.
This was advice for an article that was written over a _very_ personal problem. ML got this kind of problem, but reacted too fast, I think.
Mother Therese: "Let it never happen that a person after her meeting with you isn't happy".
I just met Misty. I'm not happy.
>Whatever. I'll keep reading her books until they no longer impress me;
>rather like my thoughts on Harlan Ellison -- I rarely agree with him, but
>he can write very well.
>
I'll continue like this, too...
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>"The war we fight isn't against powers and principalities, it is against
>chaos and despair.
> Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams.
>Against this peril we can never surrender." -- Narn Citizen G'kar,
>"Z'ha'dum" (Babylon 5 Season 3 Finale) ---- Written
>by J. Michael Stracynski
>
>
Greetings,
Thea
**********************************************************************
The Best Filker was Goethe.
He wrote the Zauberlehrling!
*********************************************************************
theae...@aol.com
Im Artikel <5dquau$h...@Masala.CC.UH.EDU>, kxw2...@Bayou.UH.EDU (KrissyBee) schreibt:
>: Now, who's for a nice juicy argument on exactly what colour white
>: leather is?
>
>: Firesong
>
>Ah, good ol' Firesong trying to keep us in perspective :) I wonder
>if those others who took offense (as I did), also had a crappy week in
>RL (as I did) and therefore were more sensitive to the message
>(as I was)?
>
>BTW Firesong, I had no idea that you were into leather!
>
>Kris
"White Leather" depends on the way it is "processed": You can have yellow-white leather, rose-white leather, beige leather... You can call all of them white, because it is the way it is naturally made (You don't use chemicals that aren't in the materials you use to make the leather)...
If you give the chemical industry a bit of money, then you get "clear white" leather: blinding white.
But I think you want naturally made white leather for selfmade-white?
Let's argue...
FiX
On Tue, 11 Feb 1997 13:04:07 -0800, Hart <ha...@hivnet.ubc.ca> wrote:
>Leah Peasley wrote:
>>
>> Observations:
>>
>> It seems that from the reactions I have seen that some people have
>> taken this entirely too personally. Simply put, it is not directed at a
>> great many of us who post or lurk around here, although I do believe that
>> some of the target audience is in attendance. So, if it was not directed
>> at you, then the words that might have seemed harsh, SHOULD just pass you
>> by. Let it go. They might have been posted, but that does not corespond
>> directly to having been said to you and having be meant to piss you off.
>>
>> So, ask yourself, are you a member of the target audience?
>> If the answer is no, then simply read her statment if you wish,
>> but you have no basis on which to be offended. If you see two people in
>> an argument, do you get offended by what one is saying to the other? No.
>> If the answer is yes .. then .. well .. I will quickly back away
>> and run like hell. ;>
>>
>> //Leah
>
>
>The point has been missed.
Hmmmm, Gyyre, here catch!
HUG HUG HUG HUG HUGHUG
HUG HUG HUG HUG HUGHUGHUGHUG
HUG HUG HUG HUG HUG HUG
HUG HUG HUG HUG HUG
HUG HUG HUG HUG HUG
HUGHUGHUGHUGHUG HUG HUG HUG
HUGHUGHUGHUGHUG HUG HUG HUG HUGHUGHUG
HUG HUG HUG HUG HUG HUG
HUG HUG HUG HUG HUG HUG
HUG HUG HUG HUG HUG HUG
HUG HUG HUGHUGHUGHUG HUGHUGHUGHUG
HUG HUG HUGHUGHUG HUGHUGHUG
There, feel better?
>Those of us NOT included in the discussion have been offended by the
>argument, not for content so much as style. We have aspoused the ideal of
>MLackey's books, no one true way and various other philosphical credos.
>The fact that they are catch phrases for some basic moral codes is not new
>to us. However to have the author of such ideal, in other words some one
>who purposely laces her text with a set of ideals, basically throw them out
>the window and work exactly opposite of said ideals is a little harsh.
Hmmm, she was bloody furious in this letter... when Vicki starts
ranting on how all men are MCP, and the next time she happens to meet
one while holding a riffle he's dead meat (okay, so I may exagerate a
tiny little bit, but she _has_ thrown a rant or two this way when
think were getting _really_ out of hand), I don't think she's turned
into a rabid man-hater, I think "hu-hoh, she's had a rough week
again", and start throwing hugs her way... when people are angry, I
allow their word to outstep their thoughts... when people are seeing
the world through a red haze, I _expect_ them to behave the opposite
of their normal self.
>While I in no way would like to be in her position, nor do I expect her to be
>any less or more than a human being (which means we all have values and
>ethics that we don't always uphold), to so violently ignore them is
>annoying. Not only that, outside of the whole debate over author versus
>content I really would want to slap a person who throws out that kind of
>commentary onto the net. It was a rant. A rant meant to be hurtful and
>personally, I don't give a flying donut if it's aimed at me or not, the point is
>I don't like having to read it. THe only rule for this group is no flaming,
>what in hell was that?
Flaming... _but_ she was not directing this to amb-l specifically, she
wrote a flame and wanted to make it as widely seen as she could... I
expect every fan mledia she's heard of to recieve the same letter...
>About author versus content. I do not beleive any author should have to
>live up to the content of their work. Lord knows I wouldn't want to.
>However the complete disregard for the "be good" theme, acknowledging
>others differences and opions as valid, seems to be missed.
>I really don't care what others think, or say. About me, or anyone else.
>But when I get told, included under the umbrella of "flakes, all of you out
>there", to piss off, I'm sorry that I get a wee tad annoyed. For despite the
>fact that supposedly this was aimed at a set of specific people the tone was
>very much "all of you out there, piss off and leave me alone, all readers
>are... blah blah blah"
The tone was very much "the world hates me and tries to hurt me, so I
hate the world and try to make them suffer too"... frankly, if this
was the normal Misty speaking there, she _couldn't_ have written most
of her books... she's overreacting, and so are you...
>THe problem that immediately sinks in is the incredible slap in my face. I
>am a very private person, and tend not to discuss my beliefs, but for the
>record, the closest I can come to a label is "pagan". And frankly the whole
>rant makes fun of, devalues and mocks anyone who claims to be "pagan" or
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>believes in something not tangible, like lord knows Jesus is.
>Again, I'm sorry, but to have some one known to espouse the ideal of fair
>play in her works, the woman completly ignored it and I am annoyed.
~I have to disagree there... the whole rant makes fun of people who
have a neurotic view of paganism: "there are nearly all-powerfull
witches out there, and they rule the world..."
Mostly, I saw the rant as an attack against sects: gathering of people
who abandon their personnal responsibility and logic to follow their
beliefs...
I'm a christian; do you remember "The last tentation of Christ"? There
were so-called christians everywhere who were so caught in their "this
is a satanist film" trip that they set theaters on fire, without even
caring if there were people inside (or _wishing_ there were people
inside)... what does it say about their morals? This is the kind of
people the rant was aimed at: people who have a _very rigid_ set of
values, but it applies only to others, not themselves... how many of
these so-called "christians" would require the death penalty for
terrorists?
>CAn I not take it personally when the person I'm here to basically spend
>time putting on a pedastal for good writing, or at least good fantasy worlds,
>turns out to be soo unlike her work as to make me wonder how in hell she
>ever wrote anything so caring when she obviously couldn't care less?
Once again, this was _not_ Misty speaking, thisd was hurt speaking
through Misty's lips...
>Because, no matter my personal feelings, to treat anyone who basically
>doesn't believe or mentally work the way I do in such a demeaning way is
>wrong. I have enough friends who have mental problems to know, there is
>no need or right to treat people with the contempt she did. Threatening is
>wrong, and should be stopped, but to degrade people and make fun of them
>for wishing to believe in something (as the bloody author you'd think she'd
>want to too) other than themselves. While she allows that that is nice, the
>whole tone is (kay, the harps can come in now) mocking.
Well, we must agree to disagree there... I don't think it was mocking.
>I think I've said my piece and feel better. Cause I just realized how I feel
>about this. I cannot see a reason for ever reading her books again.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Huh? Picasso was a lecher and someone whose set of values are really
abbhorent to me, but I can still appreciate his sculptures (so I don't
like his paintings, so sue me :-)), there are quite a lot of writers
whose philosophy I dislike, but I still like reading them...
When I'm before an art form, I don't think first about the artist's
values, except in some _very rare_ cases... you won't find me reading
L. Ron Hubbard, because I think the man was _dangerous_: not only with
an opposite set of values, but representing an actual danger...
>THe
>group is made of ideals and friends, and frankly I'd as soon get rid of her
>before my friends.
Yes
>But I will not be able to read her stuff again. What
>would be the point?
>I sure as hell couldn't enjoy it.
>Gyre Hart
><making a run at his longest post ever...>
Okay, that was it... I hope you didn't think of my post as an attack
towards you, which it wasn't meant to be, I only tried to show you why
I disagree with you (it doesn't make your position any less "worthy"
(looking for a word that escapes me right now)), and eventually making
you change opinion... I accept that friends' opinions can differ from
mines, but I won't shut up because I'm afraid they'll disagree...
FiX
(posted and mailed, with a copy to Vicki, since I used her for my
example, and hope she doesn't think me unjust...)
FiX
On Tue, 11 Feb 1997 05:37:48 GMT, db...@mid-ga.com (David Ball) wrote:
>
>Well..... That was interesting..... Anyone else get the feeling she
>missed her target audience....
Yup
>I think this answers one thing. She
>definately doesn't read this newsgroup. Most of the posts are "off
>topic" and the ones that are about misty's work tend to be either
>logic arguments about the finer details of velgarth novels, or gripes
>about how her latest books (i.e. Silver gryphon) haven't been very
>good. I wish she hadn't stressed so much that she's writing for the
>money, when that has been a complaint people here have had about her
>recent works...
>
Well, Matt Roberts said at the beginning of the post she doesn't have
a net access... and I can understand it: if her mailbox is full of
crap, she may not wish to have her e-mail turn into a trashcan...
It also answer the ever-so-frequent question: no Tregarde book is
likely to come soon...
Does anyone but me thought this was a long, frustrated scream she
wrote _just after_ she learnt about the FBI inquiry?
>It sounds like being a successful author isn't much fun. Well, this is
>one tale where I doubt we'll ever hear the complete story.
Yup.
Oh, and one more thing: should this be added to the f^Hsaq as an
appendix?
>
>-- David
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> , \ / , _ ___
> / \ )\__/( / \ _ _@)@) \ ,,/
> / \ (_\ /_) / \ _/o\_ _ _ _/~`.`...'~\ ./~~.
> ____/_____\__\@ @/___/_____\____ / `,'.~,~.~ . , . , ~|, ,/ .,'
> | |\../| | ( ' _' _ '_` _ ' . , `\_/ .' ..'
> | \VV/ | ~V~ V~ V~ V~ ~\ ` ' . ' , ' .,
> | Happy Birthday | _/\ /\ /\ /\_/, . ' , `_/~\_ .'
> |_________________________________| < ~ ~ '~`'~'`, ., . `_: ::: \_ '
> | /\ / \\ \ /\ | \ ' `_ '`_ _ ',/ _::_::_ \ _
> | / V )) V \ | `'~~ `'~~ `'~~ `'~~ \(_)(_)(_)/ `
> |/ ` // ' \|
> ` V '
>
>Happy Birthday from David, Meth, and Gilbert the alligator!!!!!
>
>Have a case of Virtual chocolate cream pie to celebrate...
>
>Hope you have a great birthday!!!!!!!!!
FiX
On Tue, 11 Feb 1997 23:54:04 GMT, db...@mid-ga.com (David Ball) wrote:
>On Tue, 11 Feb 1997 22:36:16 +0000, Firesong
><fire...@firesong.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Now, who's for a nice juicy argument on exactly what colour white
>>leather is?
>
>Of course, first we have to have the nice juicy argument on how to
>spell "color" <grin>...
I wonder how came you couldn't spell innocent, and now coloUr? My, my,
my, American culture is getting down fast these days! <GGG> (<&D>, of
course)
>
>Has anyone else noticed that after being in this newsgroup for a
>while, those of us from the USA tend to put extra letters in our
>words....
Oh my god, now they're going to spell "theatre" "theatrer" and "night"
"nighte"... <...&RLH>
>Arrrrrrggggghhh, we're being corrupted by the British and
>Canadians <grin>...
>
<sniff, Sniff, WAAAAAAAAH!>
Mean old David forgot French in the bargain! I feel soooo lost and
lonely! <accelerating>
FiX
>-- David
Dawnfire
On Wed, 12 Feb 1997 12:02:49 GMT, crfa...@smithville.net (Fawbush)
wrote:
>Graffiti on the wall from db...@mid-ga.com (David Ball) reads:
>
>>On Wed, 12 Feb 1997 00:20:57 GMT, kfor...@vt.edu (Dawnfire) wrote:
>
>>>On Tue, 11 Feb 1997 23:54:04 GMT, db...@mid-ga.com (David Ball) wrote:
>>[snip]
>>>>Has anyone else noticed that after being in this newsgroup for a
>>>>while, those of us from the USA tend to put extra letters in our
>>>>words.... Arrrrrrggggghhh, we're being corrupted by the British and
>>>>Canadians <grin>...
>>>>
>>>>-- David
>>>
>>><G> Guess I was already corrupt...I've always _known_ the correct
>>>American spellings, but usually prefer the British ones. "Colour"
>>>just has more texture to it :)
>>>
>>>Dawnfire
>
>Me too. I keep saying favourite instead of favorite... and
>(don't know if this is British spelling or just archaic) I tend
>to use S instead of Z for some reason... like "realise"...
>
>Star Creature
British too...my, what is civilisation (<G>) coming to...
Dawnfire
>
>* * * * * * * * * *
>http://members.tripod.com/~FawbushSa/
>http://www.angelfire.com/in/youngwriters/
>* * * * * * * * * *
>"Count no mortal happy till he
>has passed the final limit of his life
>secure from pain."
>
>--*Oedipus Rex* (Sophocles)
>
Elaine Logan
In article <1517.6982...@actrix.gen.nz>, Alessan de Tigana
<ale...@actrix.gen.nz> writes
>Aren't there are a number of people on here who either know or are in touch
>with people who know ML? Can _anyone_ here corroborate that this person
>Roberds does in fact know ML and is in truth passing on her own words?
>
>One person that I don't recall seeing before (not that that in itself
>counts for much) posting out of the blue a tirade of that nature, srikes me
>as more a troll than anything else.
>This last item is the one that concerns me the most, if it is a troll.
>Whose postal address was given? And what sort of mail is arriving at it if
>more people feel the way Gyre does? The paranoid in me looks at this and
>sees all too clearly it being a sneaky way of getting even more hate
>mail delivered.
>
Well it could be. My first reaction was to take down the address to
send her a card saying cheer up some of us are harmless. A lot of hugs
are dispensed here, I've always liked that, if it isn't a troll then she
seems to be in dire need of a few hugs.
--
Elaine Logan
MisElaineous the Red
Eric and JD
Actually, it was more along the lines of "for crying Out Loud leave me
Alone About The Diana Tregarde Series Already" Not much beyond that,
except to try to warn people to think for themselves when such creeps
try to pull them into potentially dangerouys situations. She is just
tired of being asked, compared, and or accused of being some sort of
existential force of magick. Or knows people like that.
Personally I think she did get into the magick and the psychic stuff in
her earlier years, but grew tired of it, and all that goes with it, and
went on to write stories with her past involved. After all that is a
major rule for writers, write what one knows.
As for the Guardians and things in that given structure, I personally
think she came up with it on her own to tell a story, nothing more.
treehugger
On Tue, 11 Feb 1997, Hart wrote:
> Hollie wrote:
> >
> > >THE LAST STRAW
> >
> > >Mercedes Lackey
> >
> > <snip of rant>
> >
> > I hope to all the gods that this is a troll. I have a very strong
> > suspicion that it isn't. Sigh.
> >
> > I'd think someone who could create such incredibly caring and
> > compassionate characters might have a teensy bit of respect for her
> > readers. Did she come off as a self-righteous bitch to anyone else,
> > or was it just me? I don't think I'll ever be able to read anything
> > of hers again without hearing this bitterness in the background.
> >
> > Gee, and I was having such a good day...
> >
> > Terribly disillusioned
> > Hollie
>
>
> Just back to see if anyone else had the same reaction. Good to know I'm not
> WAY off the deep end.
> Hollie, I had the same reaction, to the letter. I, however, freaked all over
> the screen. THanks for the calmer note.
>
> Gyre Hart
> undecided about all this
> >
It was a rather depressing experience for me. I guess I would have
apreciated a line or two on how the post was only for those who were
giving her a hard time, but I got the impression she hates all of us. Not
that I'm saying that's true, but it still felt like a slap in the face.
<sigh> I guess she's just stressed out; I know how hard it is to keep
from lashing out when you're like that, but I wish she'd found another
way to do it.
treehugger
David Ball
On Wed, 12 Feb 1997 20:57:26 GMT, FiX <f...@litp.ibp.fr> wrote:
>On Tue, 11 Feb 1997 23:54:04 GMT, db...@mid-ga.com (David Ball) wrote:
[snip]
>>Arrrrrrggggghhh, we're being corrupted by the British and
>>Canadians <grin>...
>>
><sniff, Sniff, WAAAAAAAAH!>
>Mean old David forgot French in the bargain! I feel soooo lost and
>lonely! <accelerating>
>
>FiX
Ah, but you don't claim English as your primary language. Your job is
to corrupt the French spelling of all the French speaking countries
and provinces around the world. Can't have too many of you ganging up
on us poor misspelling Americans <ggg>...
-- David
Smokeshadow
In the gentle tones used with skittish horses, Smokeshadow speaks
soothingly to Gyre:
"Gyre - my dear - as a writer you must know that the words ARE the
person in a very special way. We miss your writing, certainly; it's
evocative and lyrical and altogether beautiful. But without you,
there is no writing. So, by extension, we miss you when you're gone.
You've brought a lot of pleasure to a lot of people. So who pissed in
your cheerios today?"
Smokeshadow
On Wed, 12 Feb 1997 11:50:55 GMT, crfa...@smithville.net (Fawbush)
wrote:
>Graffiti on the wall from ha...@hivnet.ubc.ca (Gyre Hart) reads:
>
>
>>And since I'm blowing out all bridges, cause damn am I pissed, might one
>>of you possible notice that the only thing ANY of you seem to miss is my
>>writing. THanks for noticing the person.
>
><hurt by the whole post> I always though Gyre was a kind, caring
>person.
>
>
>
Firesong
Firesong notes that David Ball spake thusly.
>On Tue, 11 Feb 1997 22:36:16 +0000, Firesong
><fire...@firesong.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Now, who's for a nice juicy argument on exactly what colour white
>>leather is?
>
>Of course, first we have to have the nice juicy argument on how to
>spell "color" <grin>...
>
>while, those of us from the USA tend to put extra letters in our
>Canadians <grin>...
>
>-- David
>
<Best English 'plum' tones>
What do you mean corrupted? Bloody Colonials! We teach you to spell your
tongues mother tongue correctly and you scream at us!
Listen chummie, <G> If it wasn't for some chappie over there deciding to
do it all over and being the only man in town with a printing press,
you'd _still_ be spelling things correctly.
</Best English 'plum' tones>
Firesong
--
Web Page : http://www.firesong.demon.co.uk/ - Last Updated : 10th Feb 1997
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
One of the unkindest things about the Universe is that more often than not
the bullet doesn't have _your_ name on it; it likes to mass produce ones
with "to whom it may concern".
Firesong
Firesong notes that KrissyBee spake thusly.
>Firesong (fire...@firesong.demon.co.uk) wrote:
>
>: Listen guys, don't get upset. It's just steam. How would you feel if
>: someone stomped all over what you do? It's not aimed at you (unless
>: you're a nutbag).
>
>: Now, who's for a nice juicy argument on exactly what colour white
>: leather is?
>
>: Firesong
>
>Ah, good ol' Firesong trying to keep us in perspective :) I wonder
Am _Not_ old! I don't turn 29 until two weeks from now! (Anyway, you're
only as old as the woman you feel..........Not gonna touch it.)
>if those others who took offense (as I did), also had a crappy week in
>RL (as I did) and therefore were more sensitive to the message
>(as I was)?
>
>BTW Firesong, I had no idea that you were into leather!
Aha, surprise is our main weapon!
(Actually, for those of you who haven't been around long. That's what we
usually accuse the more serious Misty E-mail list of arguing about.)
Firesong
>
>Kris
judge
On Wed, 12 Feb 1997 11:59:25 GMT, crfa...@smithville.net
(Fawbush) scratched on the walls to say:
~Actually, her message didn't hurt me anywhere near
~as much as some of the replies did...
Her message didn't bother me that much at all. I've never taken
her work to be more than the work of a VERY good storyteller and
an ideal we might all wish for. The replies make me wonder -
maybe it really did need to be said. After saying "if you don't
fit this pattern, I'm not referring to you," it seems that half
the group thought she had singled them out for some
reason.......[sigh]
vicki
(@)------------]Quote of the Day[------------(@)
| I don't LIKE children. |
| Kerowyn,By the Sword,124 |
(@)------------------------------------------(@)
Bruce Glassford
Hart <ha...@hivnet.ubc.ca> wrote:
Guyre wrote:
><who should really stop wondering if people care... cause he then finds
>things like this post which NEED to be responded to>
however, that ignorant newbies (which DEFINITELY describes ML) can
have one or two chances to display their ignorance, and should be
gently corrected. I think this is a case where this should be done.
I can understand ML's frustration - there's far too many crazies out
there - but the post was inappropriate for the tone and tenor of this
newsgroup. The person who posted (who I don't even recall seeing
before) should not have posted it.
Please don't abandon this community over an ignorant post - even if it
was from our favorite writer (purportedly).
.... Bruce
==========================================================
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons,
For you are Crunchy
And Good with Catsup!
Dawnfire
>Firesong notes that KrissyBee spake thusly.
>>Firesong (fire...@firesong.demon.co.uk) wrote:
>>
>>: Listen guys, don't get upset. It's just steam. How would you feel if
>>: someone stomped all over what you do? It's not aimed at you (unless
>>: you're a nutbag).
>>
>>: Now, who's for a nice juicy argument on exactly what colour white
>>: leather is?
>>
>>: Firesong
>>
>>Ah, good ol' Firesong trying to keep us in perspective :) I wonder
>
>Am _Not_ old! I don't turn 29 until two weeks from now! (Anyway, you're
>only as old as the woman you feel..........Not gonna touch it.)
Ummm...but Firesong, if you're not gonna touch it, then you _do_ hafta
turn 29, huh?
<G,D&R>
Dawnfire
>
>>if those others who took offense (as I did), also had a crappy week in
>>RL (as I did) and therefore were more sensitive to the message
>>(as I was)?
>>
>>BTW Firesong, I had no idea that you were into leather!
>
>Aha, surprise is our main weapon!
>
>(Actually, for those of you who haven't been around long. That's what we
>usually accuse the more serious Misty E-mail list of arguing about.)
>
>Firesong
>
>>
>>Kris
>--
>Web Page : http://www.firesong.demon.co.uk/ - Last Updated : 10th Feb 1997
>
>
>"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
>
>One of the unkindest things about the Universe is that more often than not
>the bullet doesn't have _your_ name on it; it likes to mass produce ones
>with "to whom it may concern".
Michelle Sagara
In article <33000527....@nntp.mid-ga.com>,
David Ball <db...@mid-ga.com> wrote:
>
>Well..... That was interesting..... Anyone else get the feeling she
>definately doesn't read this newsgroup. Most of the posts are "off
>topic" and the ones that are about misty's work tend to be either
>logic arguments about the finer details of velgarth novels, or gripes
>about how her latest books (i.e. Silver gryphon) haven't been very
>good. I wish she hadn't stressed so much that she's writing for the
>money, when that has been a complaint people here have had about her
>recent works...
>
>one tale where I doubt we'll ever hear the complete story.
I have to say, in defense of Misty (whom I've never met, and whom
I therefore don't know personally), the emphasis on writing to make
a living is probably very much a part of the whole of the letter,
a punctuation to the point that she is -NOT- writing to tell some
sort of mystic truth or to suppress some sort of mystic truth, etc.
I think the letter was harshly worded, but it feels very much like
a response to letters that were even more harshly worded -- and
those, probably for the better, we won't ever see.
--
Michelle Sagara
p...@greycat.com
What I see is a very frightened woman. Look at a few snippits
from the post to see what I mean.
~the following message here. In a nutshell, the message is about
~people who have twisted the content of some of her books, so much
~so that there is now an (US) Federal Bureau of Investigation
~involvement with this situation. Read the message from her,
~below, for more information.
...
~pound them into the ground like tent pegs. But WE are adult,
~compassionate, responsible (there's that word again) human beings, and
~we know that would be wrong. So we sit in our offices and get death-
~threats and wonder which one of these loons is going to be THE one---
Death threats! Wouldn't that make you scared?
Her message looks to me like a desperate attempt to reach people that
are delusional and a threat to Misty and her family. Yes, some of it
does sound like a verbal slap in the face. But not aimed at you, at
the dangerous people. She says that right in the begining.
~Here's the deal. Most of the people who are going to read this are
~nice people. Some are nice people who are a little flaky, but that's
~cool. Some are nice people who are a LOT flaky, but that's cool, too.
~But some are not nice people, and they have real problems. A few of
~these are dangerous, and want to manipulate and hurt other people,
~including us. We just learned something recently that just happened
~to be---
I think I fit into the nice but a little flakey :) STOP LAUGHING, VICKI!
~You are responsible for your OWN thoughts, actions, and attitudes,
~dudes and dudettes. Somebody else may preach these things, but YOU
~are the one responsible for hanging your logic out to dry, putting
~your brain on "record" and forgetting that you're supposed to think as
~well as believe. And if your "coven leader" is feeding you this line
~of garbage---when you READ that this is the last thing we would
~believe in, you SEE and HEAR that our books are preaching compassion
~and not trashin', and you can find out with no trouble whatsoever the
~amount of charity work we do---WHO DOES LOGIC SAY IS THE REAL BAD GUY?
That's put strongly but it is true. Does the person who would write this
sound like a bad person? Not to me. Someone at the end of her rope,
who fired off without considering ramifications, yes. But I don't
see this as any reason to stop reading her books. I feel sorry for her. I know what
it's like to be a target, and it's not fun.
Pamela and the fourfeets
Trouble (Cat-Goddess) - If anyone bothers you, I'll take GOOD care of them.
Tigger (Perpetual Kitten) - Would a game of hide the ball help? I'll play!
Becki (Rabbit, completely surrounded by fur) I'll just hide until people stop yelling.
Derlin
In article <1997Feb13.0...@jarvis.cs.toronto.edu>,
m...@turing.toronto.edu (Michelle Sagara) wrote:
> I have to say, in defense of Misty (whom I've never met, and whom
> I therefore don't know personally), the emphasis on writing to make
> a living is probably very much a part of the whole of the letter,
> a punctuation to the point that she is -NOT- writing to tell some
> sort of mystic truth or to suppress some sort of mystic truth, etc.
>
> I think the letter was harshly worded, but it feels very much like
> a response to letters that were even more harshly worded -- and
> those, probably for the better, we won't ever see.
> --
>
> Michelle Sagara
>
> m...@turing.toronto.edu or
> m...@gpu.utcs.utoronto.ca
I tend to agree. When I read the post, I didn't feel personally attacked,
though I did feel as though I'd been grazed by a thousand bullets aimed at
someone else...
My final response was mostly a feeling that whatever caused Misty to write this
post, I sympathize, but the result was...unfortunate.
Peace, love and wisdom to all
Derlin
MD Dundon
In article <hart-11029...@port48.annex7.net.ubc.ca>,
ha...@hivnet.ubc.ca (Gyre Hart) wrote:
> And since I'm blowing out all bridges, cause damn am I pissed, might one
> of you possible notice that the only thing ANY of you seem to miss is my
> writing. THanks for noticing the person.
I believe that we all did and do. I know that Ke'a'char and I talked
of you when I met her face to face for the first time....and the
kindness you had shown through your writing to her in a time of
need. Just ask Ke'a'char about her "hound"....didn't you see where
she smacked us up side the head for calling it a dog.
You've made each of us cry and sigh with wonder
at your precious offerings...and your obvious empathy with
the difficulties we face.
I'm sorry that you cannot see all of us reaching out to
you, Gyre...that you cannot accept the fact that we do
love you the person, imperfections and all. The fact
that we cannot appear before you in a mist just
beyond your computer remains a disappointing reality
to me.
> <yes this is a mirror of the orginal post, but hey, when the hell was the
> last time I claimed to be perfect? NOT ONCE. I just tried to be polite.
> And the major dif is this is directed at people I know, for actions I'm
> certain of>
>
> Gyre Hart
I guess the thing I find strangest about the post and above thread
is how all of the posts are mirrors for what each of us is stuggling with
at the moment.
Md appears and offers Gyre a cloak to warm him from
the cold...She'kana pulls from her bag a soft warm mist
which enwraps the Gyre person with the unconditional
love of another imperfect person on the journey.
Transformed, She'kana/Md together hold out an open hand....
--
Md Dundon
Paradox Productions
mdu...@slip.net
"Any job that requires six hours to do...can be undone in six minutes by
one small child carrying a plate of crackers and a Monopoly set."
Belinda
I was not really shocked as Ms Lackey has never shown much respect for
the fans who support her with their hard-earned bucks. I imagine the
alleged FBI investigation is of her own insistance, as she has
historically shown herself to be the type to deal with her public
through her lawyers.
But what I want to know is this -- what does she expect? She writes in
a genre that has always had more than it's fair share of people who
cannot separate reality from fiction. By its very nature, fantasy
attracts these marginal personality types. I can understand the fear
and frustration of having one's work subverted and twisted by people
who are not always just passive weirdos, but I do not excuse her:
remember the diatribe on Personal Responsiblity? She should show some.
You want the frosting? It's on the cake. She is not the only writer to
have to deal with this phenomena -- can you imagine the sort of stuff
Anne Rice must get? And Robert Heinlein got all kinds of weirdness
from under the rocks after he wrote Stranger in a Strange Land: though
his personal views were very similar, there is no such vitriolic
diatribe left behind in his memorabilia. Because Heinlein was a classy
guy and he knew the territory.
I don't know what the intent was with this little piece of lierature,
but it was bad business for someone who professes to be a
professional, and it does nothing to ameliorate the situation she
claims to abhor. How many nutsos do you think read this and said to
themselves, "Gee, she's right, I should get a life?" Anyone? I doubt
it. What it accomplished was to make me feel like a sucker for buying
her books.
However I disagree with Lackey's personal ethics, though, the only
obligation she has to me is to produce I product I want to consume.
With a few exceptions, she has done that, so....she writes, I read.
Forget her, otherwise. It's just too ironic, though, that in a group
who has taken her credo of tolerance and "no one true way" to heart,
and whose only rule is No Flaming, the flames we get are from the
source who cannot take her own words to heart as much as we have.
It's sad. I can only hope as she matures, Ms Lackey can find enough
self-esteem to get over this neurotic defensive posture. She's only
hurting herself.
Belinda
(who is now trying for the FIFTh time to post a response to this!)
"A society which trades freedom for security deserves neither"
Danny Boy
Firesong wrote:
<snip>
>
> <Best English 'plum' tones>
>
> What do you mean corrupted? Bloody Colonials! We teach you to spell your
> tongues mother tongue correctly and you scream at us!
>
> Listen chummie, <G> If it wasn't for some chappie over there deciding to
> do it all over and being the only man in town with a printing press,
> you'd _still_ be spelling things correctly.
>
> </Best English 'plum' tones>
>
> Firesong
> Web Page : http://www.firesong.demon.co.uk/ - Last Updated : 10th Feb 1997
>
> "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."
>
> One of the unkindest things about the Universe is that more often than not
> the bullet doesn't have _your_ name on it; it likes to mass produce ones
> with "to whom it may concern".
Danny Boy goes suddenly and completely batty.
"What ho, chappies? Cheerie-oh, pip-pip, tata. By Jove, really must say!
Keep a stiff uper lip, maties, eh? Okay-ah."
He then shakes his head. "Ooooh...what happened...? Ummmm....did...did I
just say something...?
Danny Boy
Spellbender
p...@greycat.com wrote:
>
> What I see is a very frightened woman. Look at a few snippits
> from the post to see what I mean.
>
Yes, I am an investigator for a living. It sounds like a case of fan
stalking, as well as, possible defamation. Her letter is a warning to
the individual/group involved. It was released to the world, much the
way a press release would be sent. That is why she said something about
"you know who you are" kind of thing.
Plus, unless it came from the horses mouth, so to speak, which it did
not, I would ignore the whole thing. This is how vicious rumors get
started.
Spellbender- Whose spells are in concentric circles and lined in fur8)
Captain Silkfur McFluffy
Hart <ha...@hivnet.ubc.ca> was overheard by Fluffy to say:
>And frankly, having that kind of expectation is something I can deal with,
>am pleased to live by. However when I'm not only expected to do this, but
>asked to accept some one elses rant as ok, when abusive and so on and so on,
>I get annoyed. Then when I say, again in an attempted proper manner, hey
>I'm not happy about this, I get told "get over it".
The method of her rant was definately not ok. From the responses I've
read so far, just about everyone seems to some level or other shocked
or hurt or at least bothered by her letter.
I think that most of us are still trying to come to terms with the
letter and our feelings about ml. I know I'm confused. I want to
give her the benefit of the doubt though. I think it hurts most
because after being in this group for so long, and finally having
something ml wrote posted to it, this is what we got. We never got a
letter saying so much as a "thank you" for being loyal fans who buy
the books to pay that morgage. In fact with the occasional
semi-official appearance of Tal Greywolf with tidbits of information,
we have effectively been ignored. At least that is, as long as nobody
mentioned the idea of using her worlds to create muds or other public
role playing games or fanfic based on her worlds. And then it was her
lawyer. I find it hurts to realize that this is the truth of the
matter.
But for me, Mercedes Lackey stopped being the reason I frequent this
group a long time ago. I still love what she's written. I'll
probably buy most of what she writes in the future. However, the
reason I frequent this group is because my friends, people that I care
about, wether its Johnny not cleaning his room, or Ke'a'char making
progress in her rehabilitation, or FiX working on his paper, are here.
People who accept me as the male chauvinist cat that I really am.
I do not dissagree with you at all about the letter. I think it was
written and posted without thinking about the consequences.
>I am hurt that I am expected to live by one code and people get to live by
>another. I spend a lot of time hating myself for expressing my own
>opinion, cause all the training I've got says "shut up" and "I'm worthless".
>So to get from quite a few people the attitude that it is fine for ML to write
>something like ("like" meaning: in this style, content has NEVER been a
>strong issue here) this, let alone anyone else, PLUS I'm to stop taking
>anything personally, HURTS.
I don't think you want platitudes, and I know you don't want
patronizing. I think you have every reason and right to voice your
perspective. What I do not want to hear from you, however, is that
you are leaving the group because of this. This group has been about
far more than one author for a very long time. Just because it bears
her name, it doesn't make it hers. It is our group. She is more than
welcome to join, but as long as I am hear, it will never ever be her
group.
>So yes I said things that were obviously hurtful to some people. To be
>honest that goes against everything about me, making this a wonderful
>work day. Cause you ever try to explain to work why you're crying? Or
>why you're in pain for hurting people you've never met? Despite the
>anger that I would love to sustain me, I can't. Hurting others overrides
>that.
>Which is SO ironic. Cause I get to feel horrible about getting upset. Ain't
>life grand?
I sincerely hope that nothing I've said here has caused you further
pain. I don't think anyone intended to. I for one am awed by your
courage to say what your feeling. I don't even tell intimate friends
what I feel.
I wish there were something I could say that would take the pain away
and restore happiness to your heart, but I don't know any magic words.
Best wishes,
The Fluffy
Captain Silkfur McFluffy | ... To seek out new species of mice to conquer,
Commander Tia Clawmarks | ... To discover new fabrics to shred,
Starship AACK.Hairball | ... To purr where no cat has purred before,
mailto:tpa...@metronet.com | http://www.metronet.com/~tpaulk/Fluffy.html
Captain Silkfur McFluffy
db...@mid-ga.com (David Ball) was overheard by Fluffy to say:
>Well..... That was interesting..... Anyone else get the feeling she
>missed her target audience.... I think this answers one thing. She
>definately doesn't read this newsgroup. Most of the posts are "off
>topic" and the ones that are about misty's work tend to be either
>logic arguments about the finer details of velgarth novels, or gripes
>about how her latest books (i.e. Silver gryphon) haven't been very
>good. I wish she hadn't stressed so much that she's writing for the
>money, when that has been a complaint people here have had about her
>recent works...
>It sounds like being a successful author isn't much fun. Well, this is
>one tale where I doubt we'll ever hear the complete story.
Interesting?!? Yes VERY interesting. I question the validity of the
authorship myself. I wish Tal Greywolf would make one of his rare
appearances and clarify this point.
BUT, there is a pretty big part of me that is inclined to believe it
was written by ML. I know there are loonies out there. H*ll, I used
to have one for a roommate about a year ago. Who believed that the
"University System" in the world was put in place to help bring
thinking people under the control of the "evil elite", as well as to
bring about a one world government. This system linking its history
back to ancient rome and the papacy.
And I love to delude myself with the type of fantasies she describes
these people as having. When I lay down to go to sleep, I imagine
myself as a herald, or cast circle with Di, or as a Veritech Fighter
ace. I've fought Skellator with He-man. Made love to Lisa Hayes,
She-ra and Tasha Yar. Had adventures with the Littles. I even kicked
shell with a turtle or two. Making them into stories, with ongoing
plots (I still meet He-man every now and then). Embellishing them and
revelling in them. But I have never believed them. Wished for all I
was able that they could somehow be true, but never believed them.
My guess is, that something or things occured recently in her life
that has prompted this funny/nasty note. She did mention some sort of
federal investigation. I can't even begin to speculate what that
might have been. But I can easily believe that she has to deal with
these types of people on a frequent basis, considering that she is a
public person.
I think she wrote the note as a kind of "slap in the face" wake up
call for those people. I really don't think she intended to offend
her less impressionable fans. In fact, its seems like the kind of
thing that I would write in the height of emotion. And there was
definately emotion in that note. I myself would regret the tone in it
after my mind had settled down and I had time to think about it. But
thats just me, and I don't expect or require that ML do so.
At any rate, I consider, without out confirmation or rejection of the
authorship from authoritative sources, that this note is legitimate.
The problems real. And her intent caring.
If she didn't care, I think she would have bought a .45 and left it at
that.
Well, I guess, David that my comments aren't really intended as a
response to your comments, more to a general audience. But as far as
the emphasis on money goes, I think she was using that to emphasise
her point, that she is only a flesh and blood human being trying to
make ends meet like the rest of us.
Regards all,
The Fluffy (who is somewhat dazed by this, never-the-less)
Captain Silkfur McFluffy
vj...@mid-ga.com (judge) was overheard by Fluffy to say:
>She's right, David..................there are a LOT of flakes and
>wierdos out there who can't seem to tell the difference between
>fact and fiction...........and who don't understand that writers
>of fiction DON'T necessarily believe in what they write about. I
>am REALLY sorry that "fans" and "flakes" made her feel that her
>statement was necessary. Maybe my "life of obscurity" isn't so
>bad after all.......
>vicki
Ok. I understand what and why ML posted what she did. Or at least I
think I do.
I just posted my initial response to that posting, and this one a day
or so later, now that I'm back online.
The problem as I see it, is in that she seems to group the majority (I
think unintentionally) of her fans as being at best "nice flakes".
As I have reflected on the letter, it seems to me that it was caused
by some specific, probably seriously bad event. Hence the federal
investigation. So then, to me the letter sounds as though it was
written in the spur of the moment, in the heat of emotion. In such a
state, which is not as reasonable, she wrote out her attack/wakeup
call to the total audience, instead of differentiating them, and
specifying who her target audience was.
I believe that most of the people who frequent abml, whether posters
or lurkers, simply were not intended to be the target of this letter.
Her target is a small percentage of her fans, who whether her fans or
not, would be off in la la land delusions of which she describes. I
would estimate it at being 2% or less of all of her fans.
At any rate, I can understand how in the heat of the moment she would
do this, because I have done and probably will do something like this
again in my own life. Much to my later regret for being rash and not
well thought out on my actions.
I, contrary to my previous post, now hope that she will regret at
least her unfocused rage.
Regards,
The Fluffy
Captain Silkfur McFluffy
>(admitedly not much) of what she's talking about here.....people
>who post for the first time and want to know "is she a shaman"
>and such.........generally we are able to disabuse them of the
>idea.......or they go away......but that doesn't mean there
>aren't a lot out there who lurk and DO think she must be a
>"practitioner" of some sort. And then there are those who
>"demand" that we discuss only her work........etc....... I'm
>sorry she's having to go through it. I'd hate for her to stop
>writing. Do the "cons" contribute to the "crazies"??????
>vicki
I think the cons may be a focal point, and possibly an opportunity for
some crazie to do something harmful. But crazies are going to exist
any way. I guess it comes down to the security of the celebrity.
Laters,
Captain Silkfur McFluffy
alice...@aol.com (AliceClara) was overheard by Fluffy to say:
>Heyla all!
>Just a question...do we have any idea if Mercedes Lackey actually wrote
>that? I certainly won't take it on the poster's word that it's hers, but
>I would be very interested if anyone knows anything about the person who
>posted it and whether he's for real. No offense to anyone intended, of
>course, just my common sense caution/skepticism kicking in.
Well, Vicki and I have both lost Tal Greywolf's email address, the
semi-official eyes and ears of ML on abml. And I find it curious that
she did not have him post it, but perhaps such was not possible with
the possible haste with which I think she wanted it delivered.
However, Having read many of her books, I think I know something of
the person who writes them. Its nowhere near as polished as her
books, but without having an authoritative messenger, it is my
opinion, based on the content and style of the letter, that I BELIEVE
IT WAS WRITTEN BY MERCEDES LACKEY. It is entirely possible that this
was done by some troll, but I really don't thinks so.
>It did seem harsh and totally inappropriate here, but even if it turns out
>it's her, I think I can separate the writer from the work myself. I enjoy
>her books a lot. :)
I've posted my thoughts about this elsewhere.
Regards,
Captain Silkfur McFluffy
ehvi...@pop.uky.edu (Hollie) was overheard by Fluffy to say:
>I'd think someone who could create such incredibly caring and
>compassionate characters might have a teensy bit of respect for her
>readers. Did she come off as a self-righteous bitch to anyone else,
>or was it just me? I don't think I'll ever be able to read anything
>of hers again without hearing this bitterness in the background.
I think she sounded like someone who might have been
angry/frightened/shocked or the like by some event or piece of
information. I think she wanted to take the perpetrator/s and rip
their throats out. But I think I would have probably felt the same
way if I was faced with what she probably had to face, that being
whatever prompted the letter. She would not have just up and decided
to have something like that posted because she got a nasty or
threatening letter from some nut.
At anyrate, lets not be like the people she describes and forget that
she IS A FLESH AND BLOOD HUMAN BEING WHO HAPPENS TO SCREW UP JUST LIKE
THE REST OF US. I think she made a big public relations mistake with
her letter in its form. I'm not knocking that. I just do not believe
that that is the sum of Mercedes Lackey.
>Gee, and I was having such a good day...
>Terribly disillusioned
>Hollie
I am not ML's apologist. But I think to judge against her on this one
letter is a mistake. Myself, I find I'm growing concerned for her.
What ever prompted that letter, must be bad.
Captain Silkfur McFluffy
Leah Peasley <ez06...@peseta.ucdavis.edu> was overheard by Fluffy
to say:
>Observations:
> It seems that from the reactions I have seen that some people have
>taken this entirely too personally. Simply put, it is not directed at a
>great many of us who post or lurk around here, although I do believe that
>some of the target audience is in attendance. So, if it was not directed
>at you, then the words that might have seemed harsh, SHOULD just pass you
>by. Let it go. They might have been posted, but that does not corespond
>directly to having been said to you and having be meant to piss you off.
> So, ask yourself, are you a member of the target audience?
> If the answer is no, then simply read her statment if you wish,
>but you have no basis on which to be offended. If you see two people in
>an argument, do you get offended by what one is saying to the other? No.
> If the answer is yes .. then .. well .. I will quickly back away
>and run like hell. ;>
>//Leah
I agree with the theme of your message. I'm not going to rehash what
I've said at least six times already. Or at least I'm going to try
not to.
I think she could have done a better job of getting her message
across. Specifically with regards to her target audience. I have
zero arguement with much of her tactics in trying to get the people
she describes back into the "real world". I took it as a someone
using a shot gun to shoot a hole in a quarted 50 yards away. Yes I
know who she was targeting. BUT:
1) the first actual (assuming it was actually written by her), posting
that we have had by her is an enraged attempt to slap sense into the
fruit basket, without so much as a thank you for paying my morgage,
2) she really did not specify clearly who her audience was except that
just about all of us are at least "flaky".
this was not by any means apropriate IMO.
Now granted that I really don't care about her morgage, except in that
I wish her the best in everything since she is one of my favorite
authors, and that any grown man that calls himself "The Fluffy" has
got to be not only "flaky", but a total basket case, her letter to me
feels like a slap in the face. I don't think she meant it that way.
And I don't dislike her in the least for it. I can imagine what might
have been the cause of the post.
I've been taking both sides of this issue, because 1) I believe ML had
reason and was right to do whatever was in her power about the
situation and 2) her methods were IMO, less than optimal.
Captain Silkfur McFluffy
FiX <f...@litp.ibp.fr> was overheard by Fluffy to say:
>Does anyone but me thought this was a long, frustrated scream she
>wrote _just after_ she learnt about the FBI inquiry?
Yes. I've elaborated my thoughts in another post.
I think what she was trying to do was issue a wakeup call to people
who are convinced of the ridiculous ideas she described, which in my
experience, I have every reason to believe that there are actually
people who believe them.
Laters,
Captain Silkfur McFluffy
m...@turing.toronto.edu (Michelle Sagara) was overheard by Fluffy to
say:
>I have to say, in defense of Misty (whom I've never met, and whom
>I therefore don't know personally), the emphasis on writing to make
>a living is probably very much a part of the whole of the letter,
>a punctuation to the point that she is -NOT- writing to tell some
>sort of mystic truth or to suppress some sort of mystic truth, etc.
Agreed. I think the mentioning and emphasis of it was intended to
drive home her points that she is a normal, flesh and blood woman with
absolutely NO supernatural ability.
>I think the letter was harshly worded, but it feels very much like
>a response to letters that were even more harshly worded -- and
>those, probably for the better, we won't ever see.
>--
> Michelle Sagara
I'm convinced it was more than just hate mail that promted that
letter. What it was, I have no idea, and I suspect I never will. But
it was something serious, I have no doubt.
Regards,
Captain Silkfur McFluffy
kxw2...@Bayou.UH.EDU (KrissyBee) was overheard by Fluffy to say:
>And that is that saddest part of this whole thing...that by directing
>such a negative, rude, bitchy, downright nasty commentary to all her
>fans, not just those that are supposedly the targets, ML is going to
>lose those fans who genuinely enjoyed her work and didn't take it to
>weird extremes. I know that I am not one of those people to whom
>the tirade was directed. Frankly, I have never even READ the books in
>question. But I sure felt personally attacked by the viciousness of
>the message. How is this possible? When all those African-American
>churches were being burned in the South, didn't African-Americans whose
>churches were not burned also feel personally attacked? I see this
>in the same light. I don't know if I will take the same step as Gyre
>and not read her stuff again. But as Hollie said in another post, it'll
>be difficult to do so without recalling this rather abusive post.
Not if I can help it. Funny that I seem to be playing both Mercedes
Lackey's apologist and judge. Anyway, I'm not going to repeat myself
here. I'll probably do that on the next post I respond to <GGG>.
>Kris, who hopes that even if Gyre leaves behind ML's books, he won't
>leave behind his friends he met through his previous enjoyment of the
>books...
Seconded.
Captain Silkfur McFluffy
Hart <ha...@hivnet.ubc.ca> was overheard by Fluffy to say:
>The point has been missed.
>Those of us NOT included in the discussion have been offended by the
>argument, not for content so much as style. We have aspoused the ideal of
>MLackey's books, no one true way and various other philosphical credos.
>The fact that they are catch phrases for some basic moral codes is not new
>to us. However to have the author of such ideal, in other words some one
>who purposely laces her text with a set of ideals, basically throw them out
>the window and work exactly opposite of said ideals is a little harsh.
>While I in no way would like to be in her position, nor do I expect her to be
>any less or more than a human being (which means we all have values and
>ethics that we don't always uphold), to so violently ignore them is
>annoying. Not only that, outside of the whole debate over author versus
>content I really would want to slap a person who throws out that kind of
>commentary onto the net. It was a rant. A rant meant to be hurtful and
>personally, I don't give a flying donut if it's aimed at me or not, the point is
>I don't like having to read it. THe only rule for this group is no flaming,
>what in hell was that?
>About author versus content. I do not beleive any author should have to
>live up to the content of their work. Lord knows I wouldn't want to.
>However the complete disregard for the "be good" theme, acknowledging
>others differences and opions as valid, seems to be missed.
>I really don't care what others think, or say. About me, or anyone else.
>But when I get told, included under the umbrella of "flakes, all of you out
>there", to piss off, I'm sorry that I get a wee tad annoyed. For despite the
>fact that supposedly this was aimed at a set of specific people the tone was
>very much "all of you out there, piss off and leave me alone, all readers
>are... blah blah blah"
>THe problem that immediately sinks in is the incredible slap in my face. I
>am a very private person, and tend not to discuss my beliefs, but for the
>record, the closest I can come to a label is "pagan". And frankly the whole
>rant makes fun of, devalues and mocks anyone who claims to be "pagan" or
>believes in something not tangible, like lord knows Jesus is.
>Again, I'm sorry, but to have some one known to espouse the ideal of fair
>play in her works, the woman completly ignored it and I am annoyed.
>CAn I not take it personally when the person I'm here to basically spend
>time putting on a pedastal for good writing, or at least good fantasy worlds,
>turns out to be soo unlike her work as to make me wonder how in hell she
>ever wrote anything so caring when she obviously couldn't care less?
>Because, no matter my personal feelings, to treat anyone who basically
>doesn't believe or mentally work the way I do in such a demeaning way is
>wrong. I have enough friends who have mental problems to know, there is
>no need or right to treat people with the contempt she did. Threatening is
>wrong, and should be stopped, but to degrade people and make fun of them
>for wishing to believe in something (as the bloody author you'd think she'd
>want to too) other than themselves. While she allows that that is nice, the
>whole tone is (kay, the harps can come in now) mocking.
>I think I've said my piece and feel better. Cause I just realized how I feel
>about this. I cannot see a reason for ever reading her books again. THe
>group is made of ideals and friends, and frankly I'd as soon get rid of her
>before my friends. But I will not be able to read her stuff again. What
>would be the point?
>I sure as hell couldn't enjoy it.
>Gyre Hart
><making a run at his longest post ever...>
Well said. You have eloquently elaborated on much of what I feel
about this post. I still believe she should be given the benefit of
the doubt. I cannot immagine going throught the trouble of writing
and finding someone to post that letter was just because she was fed
up with "flakes". If that is the case, then SHE needs to get a grip
on reality, because they are not going to go away and all she is going
to do is destroy everything she's built with her writing.
I believe she should be given the benefit of the doubt though.
Because I think Something happened that so affected her that she felt
she needed to get her message out as fast and as loudly as possible.
I think she was using every tool and nasty trick at her disposal to
get those fans who are caught up in living a fantasy life, to wake up
and take control of their lives. I think underlying her likely hyped
up emotional state, anger, possible fear, there was caring for those
people who are living fantasy lives and believing absurd delusions.
If she didn't care about people, specifically those people I don't
think she would have even made the effort.
Just my thoughts,
Captain Silkfur McFluffy
vj...@mid-ga.com (judge) was overheard by Fluffy to say:
>On Wed, 12 Feb 1997 00:20:57 GMT, kfor...@vt.edu (Dawnfire)
>scratched on the walls to say:
>~American spellings, but usually prefer the British ones. "Colour"
>~just has more texture to it :)
>~Dawnfire
>[giggle] A post from Misty, and even IT can't stay on topic! I
>love it!
>vicki
<dramatic pose: head back as if pained, the back of his right hand
against his forehead>
Why? Oh Yes, Why am I NOT Supprised?
<wink>
Captain Silkfur McFluffy
>her work to be more than the work of a VERY good storyteller and
>an ideal we might all wish for. The replies make me wonder -
>maybe it really did need to be said. After saying "if you don't
>fit this pattern, I'm not referring to you," it seems that half
>the group thought she had singled them out for some
>reason.......[sigh]
>vicki
While it is clear who her target is from the context, I still find the
tone of the message inapropriate. I think more, it is shock that the
author this newsgroup is dedicated to finally posted something and
This is what we got. Like one of my managers says, "If thats not
putting the screw to you without a kiss or nothin, I don't know what
is."
Yes, I think there was a need for her to say what she said. I
question the way she said it though. Just to give you an example,
today we had a meeting with the company inventory superintendant
because we are seriously short. He spoke for an hour and a half.
Letting us know that our shortage was the highest in the division.
$154000 in 25 weeks if anyone is curious. He talked about teamwork to
combat the problem. He spoke of problem areas to watch out for.
By the end of the meeting, myself and everyone else were motivated and
thinking "what can I do to make myself more effective in helping to
control inventory".
After that the store manager spoke for less than 5 minutes. By the
time he was finished, myself and everyone were asking ourselves "why
the f&ck should I care? Its his bonus check he'll never see. And
he's the one who'll take the bust over this."
What our superintendent accomplished in an hour and a half came
unraveled. I still plan to do something to combat inventory loss.
But not because I'm a team player and I want to make the store look
good. I plan to do it because I want a promotion. And folks, that is
a far less effective attitude to have.
Think of it this way. I've heard my store manager put down associates
left and right. He doesn't do that to me anymore because I called him
on the carpet and called him a hypocrite and stood unflinching. When
he's mad or agrivated saying things like "this is pathetic" are common
and repetive. I've even heard him say he wouldn't want to shop at our
location and it was his store over a minor incident. Now someone
please explain to me, why Little Miss Suzy Q who just started this
week, is going to care about her job and want to do her absolute best
in this atmosphere.
Folks, please don't think I'm looking for sympathy because my boss has
poor people skills. I'm not. I'm trying to make a point. That
being, the way to communicate to people really does make a difference,
it really does matter, and it really will affect you. I've been
through more bosses than I can remember, and he'll just be one of many
soon enough.
If your saying this is an entirely different situation, I vehemently
dissagree. Both are trying to affect the way people think and behave.
Regards,
David Ball
On Thu, 13 Feb 1997 07:00:58 GMT, tpa...@metronet.com (Captain Silkfur
McFluffy) wrote:
[snip of lots of sensible sounding stuff written by Fluffy]
Well said, Fluffy!!!
Actually, AFAIK, she doesn't normally attend conventions. I believe
the exception is DragonCon in Atlanta this summer, and I'm wondering
if she will still be attending... She's still on the guest list and
there's a page of info about her on the DragonCon site at
http://www.dragoncon.org/people/lackeym.html
I guess we'll find out in June.
-- David
Nath
Hart wrote:
I'm not good at words so I won't try to elaborate too much on what's
happened with the original post. And it's probably the only post you'll
see done by me in this thread. I don't like this thread and what it's
done to us.
>
> THis would be the whole point.
> I have been nice and quiet, posting carefully, endlessly, thought out words
> and TRYING to think of every angle of any situation before carefully
> coughing into the back of my hand and saying, so sorry, but could you
> please explain, cause I certainly can't agree with what I think I'm hearing.
>
> And frankly, having that kind of expectation is something I can deal with,
> am pleased to live by. However when I'm not only expected to do this, but
> asked to accept some one elses rant as ok, when abusive and so on and so on,
> I get annoyed. Then when I say, again in an attempted proper manner, hey
> I'm not happy about this, I get told "get over it".
Everyone has a right to be upset once in a while. You, me, Misty, all of
us have, are or will be upset one day or the other. I don't say it's ok
to rant, I don't say it's not. All I say is that it happens, and even if
we sometimes yell at the wrong person telling them it's not directed at
them, it's still frustrating to be yelled at. We are all imperfect
creatures trying to improve ourselves with some setbacks at one time or
the other. What we must do at these times is stick together, understand
that the person is frustrated by something and try to help.
>
> I am hurt that I am expected to live by one code and people get to live by
> another. I spend a lot of time hating myself for expressing my own
> opinion, cause all the training I've got says "shut up" and "I'm worthless".
> So to get from quite a few people the attitude that it is fine for ML to write
> something like ("like" meaning: in this style, content has NEVER been a
> strong issue here) this, let alone anyone else, PLUS I'm to stop taking
> anything personally, HURTS.
She lacked diplomacy, she was probably afraid and her message hurt good
people without meaning to. Do not hate yourself, it's not your fault. We
are what we are.
>
> So yes I said things that were obviously hurtful to some people. To be
> honest that goes against everything about me, making this a wonderful
> work day. Cause you ever try to explain to work why you're crying? Or
> why you're in pain for hurting people you've never met? Despite the
> anger that I would love to sustain me, I can't. Hurting others overrides
> that.
How do you think I feel when I hurt my kids because I'm angry at
something or someone else? It happens to everyone. Don't close the door
behind you because of that. To be hurt because you hurt people shows you
care about others. You needed to explode and it happened on us. Maybe
it's better this way cause we are many who'll try to help.
>
> Which is SO ironic. Cause I get to feel horrible about getting upset. Ain't
> life grand?
Again, it shows you care. If you were any other way, we wouldn't like
you so much. You are hurt and it's right to be upset about that. But
don't stay alone. A pain shared is lighter than one you keep secret. One
day it's going to blow up anyway.
>
> GH
> <who should really stop wondering if people care... cause he then finds
> things like this post which NEED to be responded to>
Have lots of Hugs, you need it. I hope things get better for you. Want a
shoulder to cry on, here I am.
Take care.
--
Nathalie Hébert
(Ariel Solinar, Runemaster and Tara, Vampire of the clan Ravnos)
Keeper of the Official abm-l Zoo
http://www.total.net/~werewolf/abml_zoo.txt
mailto:tyl...@hotmail.com (my personal Hotmail address)
mailto:were...@total.net
http://www.total.net/~werewolf
===============================================
| "All which is beautiful is not always good, |
| but all which is good is always beautiful."|
| Maximillian Arturo |
| (Sliders) |
===============================================
Jiraad
>Has anyone else noticed that after being in this newsgroup for a
>while, those of us from the USA tend to put extra letters in our
>words.... Arrrrrrggggghhh, we're being corrupted by the British and
>Canadians <grin>...
>-- David
Actually, I've always done that -- to the annoyance of several English
teachers, who could not get it into their heads that I was spelling things
in English, and they were writing in American.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The war we fight isn't against powers and principalities, it is against chaos and despair.
Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender." -- Narn Citizen G'kar, "Z'ha'dum" (Babylon 5 Season 3 Finale) ---- Written by J. Michael Stracynski
Jiraad
On the subject of Writers writing for money:
Let's face the facts, my friends:
Writer write for the money. They may enjoy it. They may even be unable
to survive without doing it. But if they didn't want the money for it,
they'd smply write it, stuff it in a drawer or hand it out to friends, and
that's be the end of it.
Robert Heinlein wrote, in Expanded Universe: "[In the forewords] I'll
explain why I wrote the piece (Usually Money, but . . . well, money.).
I write. But I want to publish. Partly so others can read my work, but
mostly because I want the income from it. Is that so wrong?
Hollie
Jiraad wrote:
>On the subject of Writers writing for money:
>Let's face the facts, my friends:
>Writer write for the money. They may enjoy it. They may even be unable
>to survive without doing it. But if they didn't want the money for it,
>they'd smply write it, stuff it in a drawer or hand it out to friends, and
>that's be the end of it.
>Robert Heinlein wrote, in Expanded Universe: "[In the forewords] I'll
>explain why I wrote the piece (Usually Money, but . . . well, money.).
>I write. But I want to publish. Partly so others can read my work, but
>mostly because I want the income from it. Is that so wrong?
In all the responses to this rant, I don't think I've seen a single
person say that there's anything wrong with writing for money. Did I
miss something?
Hollie
Firesong
Firesong notes that Dawnfire spake thusly.
>On Thu, 13 Feb 1997 01:37:16 +0000, Firesong
><fire...@firesong.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Firesong notes that KrissyBee spake thusly.
>>>Firesong (fire...@firesong.demon.co.uk) wrote:
>>>
>>>: Listen guys, don't get upset. It's just steam. How would you feel if
>>>: someone stomped all over what you do? It's not aimed at you (unless
>>>: you're a nutbag).
>>>
>>>: Now, who's for a nice juicy argument on exactly what colour white
>>>: leather is?
>>>
>>>: Firesong
>>>
>>>Ah, good ol' Firesong trying to keep us in perspective :) I wonder
>>
>>Am _Not_ old! I don't turn 29 until two weeks from now! (Anyway, you're
>>only as old as the woman you feel..........Not gonna touch it.)
>
>Ummm...but Firesong, if you're not gonna touch it, then you _do_ hafta
>turn 29, huh?
>
><G,D&R>
>Dawnfire
S'true, it's a dirty job but someone's got to do it. <G>
Anyway, I _can't_ touch it. It's an ocean away.
Nath
David Ball wrote:
>
> On Wed, 12 Feb 1997 20:57:26 GMT, FiX <f...@litp.ibp.fr> wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 11 Feb 1997 23:54:04 GMT, db...@mid-ga.com (David Ball) wrote:
> [snip]
> >>Arrrrrrggggghhh, we're being corrupted by the British and
> >>Canadians <grin>...
> >>
> >Mean old David forgot French in the bargain! I feel soooo lost and
> >lonely! <accelerating>
> >
> >FiX
>
> Ah, but you don't claim English as your primary language. Your job is
> to corrupt the French spelling of all the French speaking countries
> and provinces around the world. Can't have too many of you ganging up
> on us poor misspelling Americans <ggg>...
>
> -- David
Ah but We in Quebec don't let others corrupt us (we're doing just fine
autocorrupting ourselves thank you <G>). Don't worry Fix, we're here to
corrupt you! You're not alone anymore. ;)
Ellie Dennison
judge wrote:
>
> On Wed, 12 Feb 1997 00:20:57 GMT, kfor...@vt.edu (Dawnfire)
> scratched on the walls to say:
> ~<G> Guess I was already corrupt...I've always _known_ the correct
> ~American spellings, but usually prefer the British ones. "Colour"
> ~just has more texture to it :)
> ~Dawnfire
>
> [giggle] A post from Misty, and even IT can't stay on topic! I
> love it!
>
Ellie
>
> (@)------------]Quote of the Day[------------(@)
> | I don't LIKE children. |
> | Kerowyn,By the Sword,124 |
> (@)------------------------------------------(@)
Nath
Jenwon wrote:
>
> On Thu, 13 Feb 1997 08:04:03 GMT, tpa...@metronet.com (Captain Silkfur
> McFluffy) wrote:
>
> >But for me, Mercedes Lackey stopped being the reason I frequent this
> >group a long time ago. I still love what she's written. I'll
> >probably buy most of what she writes in the future. However, the
> >reason I frequent this group is because my friends, people that I care
> >about, wether its Johnny not cleaning his room, or Ke'a'char making
> >progress in her rehabilitation, or FiX working on his paper, are here.
> >People who accept me as the male chauvinist cat that I really am.
>
> really about Mercedes Lackey or her writing, it's about friends. I
> couldn't believe it when I turned on my computer this afternoon after
> taking a day and 3 quarters break and found one thread which seemed to
> be putting the group at odds (and I'm not blaming ANYONE in
> particular). I thought we were close enough not to let something like
> this come between us.
My thoughts exactly.
>
> Jenwon (who's decided to ignore the rest of this thread except the
> part Firesong started)
Good decision. I already decided not to participate in the first part of
that thread for more than one post. I think enough was said about that
letter.
Nath
Dawnfire wrote:
>
> On Wed, 12 Feb 1997 20:57:26 GMT, FiX <f...@litp.ibp.fr> wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 11 Feb 1997 23:54:04 GMT, db...@mid-ga.com (David Ball) wrote:
> >
> >><fire...@firesong.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>Now, who's for a nice juicy argument on exactly what colour white
> >>>leather is?
> >>
> >>spell "color" <grin>...
> >
> >I wonder how came you couldn't spell innocent, and now coloUr? My, my,
> >my, American culture is getting down fast these days! <GGG> (<&D>, of
> >course)
> >>
> >>Has anyone else noticed that after being in this newsgroup for a
> >>while, those of us from the USA tend to put extra letters in our
> >>words....
> >
> >"nighte"... <...&RLH>
> >
> >>Arrrrrrggggghhh, we're being corrupted by the British and
> >>Canadians <grin>...
> >>
> ><sniff, Sniff, WAAAAAAAAH!>
> >Mean old David forgot French in the bargain! I feel soooo lost and
> >lonely! <accelerating>
>
> "Le week-end", "le blue-jean"...really! <G> It's alarming how much of
> the modern French slang they taught us in textbooks is English words.
But don't forget the old french, when it was the language of the kings.
It was spoken in the english court. You'd be surprised to know the
quantity of english words that come from the french, like 'toast'. There
are french words we think they come from the english, but it's just the
opposite. I read about it once but unfortunately I don't remember what
other words were given as examples. Maybe someone else can help here.
>
> Dawnfire (who amuses herself by watching the French-Canadian channel
> and seeing how much she can understand...watching Disney movies and
> _Top Gun_ in French was fun! :)
Well, most of the movies are translated in France...
> >
> >FiX
>
> *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
>
> "Kind words can be short and easy to speak, but their
> echoes are truly endless."
> --Mother Teresa
>
> *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
David Ball
On Thu, 13 Feb 1997 22:54:46 GMT, ehvi...@pop.uky.edu (Hollie) wrote:
[snip]
>In all the responses to this rant, I don't think I've seen a single
>person say that there's anything wrong with writing for money. Did I
>miss something?
>
>Hollie
>
I had made the following comment
>I wish she hadn't stressed so much that she's writing for the
>money, when that has been a complaint people here have had about her
>recent works...
I understand writing for the money. I don't have a problem with that.
I was thinking back to some of the comments I read here about Silver
Gryphon, and how the end seemed rushed, and the book just wasn't
interesting.
I'm a big misty fan, but I do think there have been a couple of books
that were thrown together quickly, and without a really good plot. It
seems like some of the recent trilogies start out with an excellent
book and go downhill from there. Misty isn't the only author I've
noticed this with.
I think, once a writer becomes extremely successful, that there's a
lot of pressure from publishers to produce more books. Whether it's
from pressure by the publisher, or the authors need for money, I think
that occasionally sub-standard books are written just to get something
out the door. When the author uses their reputation to sell something
they've thrown together without giving it the attention it deserves, I
do have a problem with it...
I'm not trying to start an argument or anything. I just hate to see a
really good author produce shoddy workmanship. These are just my
opinions.
I hope I haven't hurt anyone's feelings by saying this. If I was going
to say one thing to Misty about this, it would be that she's an
excellent author, but I think it's time for her to take a long
vacation, have some fun, and get away from writing for a few months.
Her fans will be here when she gets back.
-- David
David Ball
On Thu, 13 Feb 1997 20:10:31 -0500, Nath <were...@total.net> wrote:
[snip of stuff about corrupting spelling of english and french]
>Ah but We in Quebec don't let others corrupt us (we're doing just fine
>autocorrupting ourselves thank you <G>). Don't worry Fix, we're here to
>corrupt you! You're not alone anymore. ;)
>
>--
>Nathalie Hébert
Hmmm, "autocorrupting"...... Definately sounds like a computer
term..... Or possibly a description of a certain OS <grin>...
-- David
Bethany Jo Weber
The Weredragon's $.02 worth:
I actually have two comments:
-- Am I the only one who is more inclined to believe this doesn't come
from Mercedes Lackey than that it does? I admit, the style isn't that
different, but there are so many kooks who COULD have posted this, and
only one Misty... seems suspicious.
-- If it WAS Mercedes Lackey, it was in incredibly poor taste. (If it
WASN'T, it was naturally in even poorer taste, since in that case we're
all getting upset over some kook on the Internet.) It does indeed sound
like a rant, and yes, I do get to be in bad moods and take it out on my
roommate, parents, etc... Once in a while, during finals week, I
impulsively post politely insulting responses to the idiots who say
things like, "Star Trek sucks, you are all idiots, etc." on the Star Trek
newsgroup I read -- because I was THERE, I had the keyboard in front of
me, I was stressed. But sending something hardcopy (the message said the
person had only hardcopy contact with Misty) to be posted later requires
planning and forethought... writing it, sending it, then deciding later,
"Yes, I really want to say that." If she had been sitting at the
keyboard and responded impulsively, that would have been a rant. This
was a deliberate action, not a rant.
Writing the above, tearing it up, and posting something more diplomatic...
that would have been OK. Just spouting off due to stress -- OK, that's not
great, but we've all done it, being only human. This, I think was
unacceptable.
If that makes any sense. :)
*Hugs* to everyone who was upset! Hey, since when has this group been
about Mercedes Lackey, anyway? :)
Bethany
------------------Official Weredragon of Rice University-------------------
"The truth is usually just an excuse for lack of imagination."
-Garak, DS9, "Improbable Cause."
But reality is *always* an excuse for lack of imagination.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Dragon etiquette is incredibly complicated, and if you make a mistake,
the dragon eats you." -- Patricia C. Wrede, _Talking to Dragons_
------------------http://www.owlnet.rice.edu:80/~bethany/------------------
Dawnfire
On Wed, 12 Feb 1997 20:57:26 GMT, FiX <f...@litp.ibp.fr> wrote:
>On Tue, 11 Feb 1997 23:54:04 GMT, db...@mid-ga.com (David Ball) wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 11 Feb 1997 22:36:16 +0000, Firesong
>><fire...@firesong.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Now, who's for a nice juicy argument on exactly what colour white
>>>leather is?
>>
>>Of course, first we have to have the nice juicy argument on how to
>>spell "color" <grin>...
>
>I wonder how came you couldn't spell innocent, and now coloUr? My, my,
>my, American culture is getting down fast these days! <GGG> (<&D>, of
>course)
>>
>>Has anyone else noticed that after being in this newsgroup for a
>>while, those of us from the USA tend to put extra letters in our
>>words....
>
>Oh my god, now they're going to spell "theatre" "theatrer" and "night"
>"nighte"... <...&RLH>
>
>>Arrrrrrggggghhh, we're being corrupted by the British and
>>Canadians <grin>...
>>
><sniff, Sniff, WAAAAAAAAH!>
>Mean old David forgot French in the bargain! I feel soooo lost and
>lonely! <accelerating>
But aren't you guys too busy having your language corrupted by us?
"Le week-end", "le blue-jean"...really! <G> It's alarming how much of
the modern French slang they taught us in textbooks is English words.
Dawnfire (who amuses herself by watching the French-Canadian channel
and seeing how much she can understand...watching Disney movies and
_Top Gun_ in French was fun! :)
>
Jenwon
>But for me, Mercedes Lackey stopped being the reason I frequent this
>group a long time ago. I still love what she's written. I'll
>probably buy most of what she writes in the future. However, the
>reason I frequent this group is because my friends, people that I care
>about, wether its Johnny not cleaning his room, or Ke'a'char making
>progress in her rehabilitation, or FiX working on his paper, are here.
>People who accept me as the male chauvinist cat that I really am.
I think Fluffy said it all with this paragraph. This group isn't
really about Mercedes Lackey or her writing, it's about friends. I
couldn't believe it when I turned on my computer this afternoon after
taking a day and 3 quarters break and found one thread which seemed to
be putting the group at odds (and I'm not blaming ANYONE in
particular). I thought we were close enough not to let something like
this come between us.
Jenwon (who's decided to ignore the rest of this thread except the
part Firesong started)
judge
On Wed, 12 Feb 1997 10:22:19 -0500, treehugger
<kke...@gl.umbc.edu> scratched on the walls to say:
~It was a rather depressing experience for me. I guess I would have
~apreciated a line or two on how the post was only for those who were
~giving her a hard time, but I got the impression she hates all of us. Not
~that I'm saying that's true, but it still felt like a slap in the face.
~<sigh> I guess she's just stressed out; I know how hard it is to keep
~from lashing out when you're like that, but I wish she'd found another
~way to do it.
~treehugger
You mean this? It was in the first few lines........maybe that's
why it's easy to miss.........
Quoted:
Here's the deal. Most of the people who are going to read this
are nice people. Some are nice people who are a little flaky,
but that's cool. Some are nice people who are a LOT flaky, but
that's cool, too.
vicki