Kethry in Valdemar
kem_tek
Mage. As I read it she was in Valdemar. Yet I did not see any mention of
the Valdemaran spell against the performance of magic, even though it
was specifically mentioned the mage after her, and her partner (oh Lord
of Chocolate, what is her name?) could not get in. Any explanation of
why she was able to perform magic without a problem?
Aaron
Nightshade
wrote:
Kethry and Tarma were staying with Herald (also Heir) Roald at the
time, so they were effectively 'vouched for' as far as magic goes.
Also, in By The Sword, Kethry mentions that working magic in Valdemar
wasn't comfortable - it seems that by that point she was
self-possessed enough to ignore the problem while she was there,
especially since with the Herald nearby it wouldn't have been as much
of a problem.
In Magic's Price the reason for 'no magic in Valdemar' is set up, and
it's progressively explained in By The Sword and the Winds books (it
isn't 100% consistent, but it mostly works).
Hope this helps,
Nightshade
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>> In the Vows and Honor book 'Oathbreakers' Kethry became an Adept
>>Mage. As I read it she was in Valdemar. Yet I did not see any mention of
>>the Valdemaran spell against the performance of magic, even though it
>>was specifically mentioned the mage after her, and her partner (oh Lord
>>of Chocolate, what is her name?) could not get in. Any explanation of
>>why she was able to perform magic without a problem?
>>Aaron
>Kethry and Tarma were staying with Herald (also Heir) Roald at the
>time, so they were effectively 'vouched for' as far as magic goes.
>Also, in By The Sword, Kethry mentions that working magic in Valdemar
>wasn't comfortable - it seems that by that point she was
>self-possessed enough to ignore the problem while she was there,
>especially since with the Herald nearby it wouldn't have been as much
>of a problem.
>In Magic's Price the reason for 'no magic in Valdemar' is set up, and
>it's progressively explained in By The Sword and the Winds books (it
>isn't 100% consistent, but it mostly works).
Also... remember Van or someone stated that the Vrondi were working
within the bounds of Valdemar that were in existence when Van set it
all up and around Heralds in general. Maybe they were outside the
original boundaries and Roald wasn't enough of an 'attraction' to the
vrondi to keep them around so there may have been no vrondi nearby to
watch Kethry.
healer in green
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with:
>Also... remember Van or someone stated that the Vrondi were working
>within the bounds of Valdemar that were in existence when Van set it
>all up and around Heralds in general. Maybe they were outside the
>original boundaries and Roald wasn't enough of an 'attraction' to the
>vrondi to keep them around so there may have been no vrondi nearby to
>watch Kethry.
I also vaguely remember her saying that she needed to walk some
distance to perform her adept spell so that she would be out of the
watchful eyes of the Vrondi. That's one reason why she was out and
about that night.
Tristaan
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Kelly Ross Pedersen
Tristaan wrote:
>
> On 01 Nov 2000 01:52:06 GMT, healer in green stomped through my brain
> with:
>
> >Also... remember Van or someone stated that the Vrondi were working
> >within the bounds of Valdemar that were in existence when Van set it
> >all up and around Heralds in general. Maybe they were outside the
> >original boundaries and Roald wasn't enough of an 'attraction' to the
> >vrondi to keep them around so there may have been no vrondi nearby to
> >watch Kethry.
>
> I also vaguely remember her saying that she needed to walk some
> distance to perform her adept spell so that she would be out of the
> watchful eyes of the Vrondi. That's one reason why she was out and
> about that night.
As well, Vanyel mentioned in "Winds of Fury" that the Vrondi "tracked"
the borders through the Heralds' use of the Truth Spell. I suspect no
Herald had used the Truth Spell anywhere near Roald's hunting lodge for
a long time. After all, everyone who went up there was probably a
trusted servant or ally of Valdemar, and the rest of the region was most
likely quite low population, considering that it was mountains.
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William George Ferguson
>>> In the Vows and Honor book 'Oathbreakers' Kethry became an Adept
>>>Mage. As I read it she was in Valdemar. Yet I did not see any mention of
>>>the Valdemaran spell against the performance of magic, even though it
>>>was specifically mentioned the mage after her, and her partner (oh Lord
>>>of Chocolate, what is her name?) could not get in. Any explanation of
>>>why she was able to perform magic without a problem?
>>>Aaron
>In hieroglyphics on pyramid walls, (Nightshade) wrote:>>Kethry and Tarma were staying with Herald (also Heir) Roald at the
>>time, so they were effectively 'vouched for' as far as magic goes.
>>Also, in By The Sword, Kethry mentions that working magic in Valdemar
>>wasn't comfortable - it seems that by that point she was
>>self-possessed enough to ignore the problem while she was there,
>>especially since with the Herald nearby it wouldn't have been as much
>>of a problem.
>>In Magic's Price the reason for 'no magic in Valdemar' is set up, and
>>it's progressively explained in By The Sword and the Winds books (it
>>isn't 100% consistent, but it mostly works).
>>Nightshade
shay...@concentric.net (healer in green) wrote:
>Also... remember Van or someone stated that the Vrondi were working
>within the bounds of Valdemar that were in existence when Van set it
>all up and around Heralds in general. Maybe they were outside the
>original boundaries and Roald wasn't enough of an 'attraction' to the
>vrondi to keep them around so there may have been no vrondi nearby to
>watch Kethry.
My favorite explanation is somewhat simpler. Vanyel's spell doesn't
prevent working magic, it just has vrondi do something that already
fits their nature. Someone works magic, a nearby vrondi will come and
look, and if they aren't a Herald, will basically keep watching them
until a Herald-Mage shows up. If they keep working magic, more and
more vrondi will show up and start watching, soon reaching a terminal
annoyance/distraction level. Keep in mind that the bigger the magic,
the more attractive to the vrondi.
At that cabin, you had the Herald-Heir, his Companion, a White Winds
mage, a Swordsworn
and Kal'endal Star-eyed made manifest
It wouldn't amaze me if the vrondi didn't even notice Kethry.
(dog-pile on the Goddess, dog-pile on the Goddess)
Woof
> Also... remember Van or someone stated that the Vrondi were working
> within the bounds of Valdemar that were in existence when Van set it
> all up and around Heralds in general. Maybe they were outside the
> original boundaries and Roald wasn't enough of an 'attraction' to the
> vrondi to keep them around so there may have been no vrondi nearby to
> watch Kethry.
>
> healer in green
The other part of that original spell is that the vrondi also defined the
boundaries of Valdemar by watching where the Heralds went, so
those boundaries were VERY flexible.
I think it was the combination of:
Kethry was "vouched for" by Roald,
Kethry was being shielded by Need (remember how quiet Need got when
Kero carried her into Valdemar), and
Kethry was "vouched for" by Tarma, which the StarEyed Herself said
was just "another Herald" like Roald, so Tarma is kinda a Herald.
So I think Kethry had enough people with the proper authority
vouching for her, so the vrondi didn't bother her.
And, just for the record, I *don't* think it's because Kethry was
self assured to just ignore them. Remember, Van placed the original
spell, and got caught by it himself, was NOT happy about being
spied upon, and felt silly that he had forgotten about the spell and
gotten interrupted. So if *VAN* felt uneasy that _HE_ was being
stared at, I'm just not convinced that Kethry could simply ignore
the Vrondi because she was confident enough....
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Paige
I always assumed that she was out of the vrondi's range when she
performed not only her adept manifestation but the "blurring" spell
before Roald finds them so she didn't notice them. However the one
spell she performs in their range is the "transformation" spell on
Tarma. So, when she mentions being "uncomfortable" after working magic
it was only that last spell that actually caused her problems.
Am I making any sense.
--
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Beldin Disciple of Aldur
<rmar...@i.hate.spam.ptd.net> sharpened a new quill and wrote :
>On 01 Nov 2000 01:52:06 GMT, healer in green stomped through my brain
>with:
>
>>Also... remember Van or someone stated that the Vrondi were working
>>within the bounds of Valdemar that were in existence when Van set it
>>all up and around Heralds in general. Maybe they were outside the
>>original boundaries and Roald wasn't enough of an 'attraction' to the
>>vrondi to keep them around so there may have been no vrondi nearby to
>>watch Kethry.
>
>I also vaguely remember her saying that she needed to walk some
>distance to perform her adept spell so that she would be out of the
>watchful eyes of the Vrondi. That's one reason why she was out and
>about that night.
>
>Tristaan
No, she simply wanted to be alone when she tried it.
..." Kethry didn't want an audience, not for this. Not even Tarma. So
she went out into ....forest until she found a little clearing that was
far enough away from the lodge that she couldn't see or sense the
building or the people in it" ...
BTW. I've just been looking at the maps in Magic's Price and
Oathbreakers, and the borders between Rethwellan / Valdemar / Karse and
Hardon are all changed.
I quaff my ale and fight dirty!
Beldin Disciple of Aldur
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Member of the Guild of Free Pedants
( Barry Ruck. Harlow, Essex. )
A Guy Called Tyketto
> My favorite explanation is somewhat simpler. Vanyel's spell doesn't
> prevent working magic, it just has vrondi do something that already
> fits their nature. Someone works magic, a nearby vrondi will come and
> look, and if they aren't a Herald, will basically keep watching them
> until a Herald-Mage shows up. If they keep working magic, more and
> more vrondi will show up and start watching, soon reaching a terminal
> annoyance/distraction level. Keep in mind that the bigger the magic,
> the more attractive to the vrondi.
> At that cabin, you had the Herald-Heir, his Companion, a White Winds
> mage, a Swordsworn
> and Kal'endal Star-eyed made manifest
> It wouldn't amaze me if the vrondi didn't even notice Kethry.
> (dog-pile on the Goddess, dog-pile on the Goddess)
This also complies with why the vrondi didn't go after Hulda
either (Arrows of the Queen) nor Kethry's Second visit to Valdemar
(Oathblood: Spring Plowing at Forst Reach). After she entered Valdemar,
she didn't use any magic. IIRC, she made mention of how hard it was for
her to even talk about it, when she made it to their border, on their
way to Forst Reach. Hulda on the other hand, didn't even bother. She
just didn't do anything, until she left Valdemar for Hardorn.
Bottom line: Mages could enter Valdemar. they just found it hard
to speak of it unless it was in the past, and could not use it while
there.
BL.
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rosalina
"kem_tek" <kem_te...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:39FF53D9...@hotmail.com...
If I may add, wasn't Kethry summoning elementals in her first spells and
aren't Vrondi (air)elementals too?
--
Rosalina
Joe Morris
>I also vaguely remember her saying that she needed to walk some
>distance to perform her adept spell so that she would be out of the
>watchful eyes of the Vrondi. That's one reason why she was out and
>about that night.
Um...I'm at the office tonight (it's 18:10) and my books are at home,
but I don't think that you'll find that anyone at that point in the
time line would go anywhere to "be out of the watchful eyes of the
Vrondi" since nobody remembered that they existed, or had anything
to do with the no-mages-allowed rules in Valdemar. Skip forward
a few years and listen to Quentin's anguish as he and the other
wizards are forced to leave the Skybolts as they enter Valdemar:
he has no idea *why* or *how* they are being affected, and neither
does Kerowyn. If the Vrondi had been known to be the mechanism
that made life difficult for wizards, Tarma would have known about it,
and if *she* knew it, I cannot see her failing to pass that bit of
info along to Kerowyn, who in turn would have told Quentin.
Or has my lack of recent sleep finally caught up with me and made
me forget some critical point?
Joe Morris
Joe Morris
>BTW. I've just been looking at the maps in Magic's Price and
>Oathbreakers, and the borders between Rethwellan / Valdemar / Karse and
>Hardon are all changed.
Have you looked at a RL map of eastern Europe recently? You can
almost watch the boundaries shift, and that's over a period much
shorter than the time between _Magic's Price_ and _Oathbreakers_.
Joe Morris
C M
wrote:
For that matter in the span of time between those two, entire
countries have appeared, disappeared, partitioned, unified, and so
forth. The stable border between Canada and the USA is a
recordbreaker at over 100 years and that nearly caused a war getting
it worked out. Look at a time map of Poland and you'll see some
really interesting border changes.
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Susan Sebranek
"William George Ferguson" <william.geo...@domail.maricopa.edu>
wrote in message news:CTsAOlaKsufXLB...@4ax.com...
<big fat hairy snip>
> My favorite explanation is somewhat simpler. Vanyel's spell doesn't
> prevent working magic, it just has vrondi do something that already
> fits their nature. Someone works magic, a nearby vrondi will come and
> look, and if they aren't a Herald, will basically keep watching them
> until a Herald-Mage shows up. If they keep working magic, more and
> more vrondi will show up and start watching, soon reaching a terminal
> annoyance/distraction level. Keep in mind that the bigger the magic,
> the more attractive to the vrondi.
>
> At that cabin, you had the Herald-Heir, his Companion, a White Winds
> mage, a Swordsworn
>
> and Kal'endal Star-eyed made manifest
>
> It wouldn't amaze me if the vrondi didn't even notice Kethry.
>
> (dog-pile on the Goddess, dog-pile on the Goddess)
POINT!
More like drooling all over her, and panting at her feet, however.
Susan
I live in a duplex
On Wed, 01 Nov 2000 20:14:52 GMT, "rosalina" <rosa...@cheerful.com> wrote:
>If I may add, wasn't Kethry summoning elementals in her first spells and
>aren't Vrondi (air)elementals too?
Yes, Vrondi are creatures from the plane of Air; I don't know if 'elemental'
designates a creature *type* (as in AD&D) or just *origin*.
Nor have I seen an indicator that the *type* of mage spell (excption: Truth
Spell) had any effect on whether the Vrondi started rubber-eyeing you (they
can't rubber-neck, they haven't got one!)
Casting the Truth Spell might actually keep the Vrondi (otherwise) at bay...
they know that if they show up they get drafted to enter a human's mind (read:
trash heap) to ferret out guilt (read: stinky trash heap); so, starting the
Truth Spell might make the more self-aware Vrondi head for other places.
---
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kem_tek
protection from Roald, and the distraction by more interesting personages
and Goddessages. And no spoilers on the Last Herald Mage books please, I am
waiting for the taxpayers to subsidize my reading addiction and to deliver
to me the books via interlibrary loan program.
Aaron
Mary Creasey
Nightshade <Night...@ozlinx.com.au> wrote in message
news:39ff6683...@news.ozlinx.com.au...
> On Tue, 31 Oct 2000 23:20:58 GMT, kem_tek <kem_te...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > In the Vows and Honor book 'Oathbreakers' Kethry became an Adept
> >Mage. As I read it she was in Valdemar. Yet I did not see any mention of
> >the Valdemaran spell against the performance of magic, even though it
> >was specifically mentioned the mage after her, and her partner (oh Lord
> >of Chocolate, what is her name?) could not get in. Any explanation of
> >why she was able to perform magic without a problem?
> >
> >Aaron
>
> Kethry and Tarma were staying with Herald (also Heir) Roald at the
> time, so they were effectively 'vouched for' as far as magic goes.
> Also, in By The Sword, Kethry mentions that working magic in Valdemar
> wasn't comfortable - it seems that by that point she was
> self-possessed enough to ignore the problem while she was there,
> especially since with the Herald nearby it wouldn't have been as much
> of a problem.
Also, the Shin'a'in Goddess had an understanding with Roald's
Companion when Tarma went out...(can't remember whether
that was before or after Kethry did)...and a Goddess should be
able to vouch for a mage she'enedra-vowed to a Kal'enedral.
(V&H are still my favorites of the Velgarth books!)
--
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Simon
> Having read the threads it would seem the major non-causes were the
>protection from Roald, and the distraction by more interesting personages
>and Goddessages. And no spoilers on the Last Herald Mage books please, I am
>waiting for the taxpayers to subsidize my reading addiction and to deliver
>to me the books via interlibrary loan program.
>
>Aaron
>
And don't forget the whole thing happening on, or perhaps even just
outside, the Valdemar border. Perhaps there just weren't any 'changed'
Vrondi around.
--
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'My doctor says I have a malformed public duty gland and a
natural deficiency in moral fibre,' he muttered to himself,
'and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'
Life, the universe and everything
kem_tek
Aaron
roadrunner_"at"_madbbs_"dot"_com
<william.geo...@domail.maricopa.edu> (William George Ferguson)
wrote:
::shay...@concentric.net (healer in green) wrote:
::>Also... remember Van or someone stated that the Vrondi were working
::>within the bounds of Valdemar that were in existence when Van set it
::>all up and around Heralds in general. Maybe they were outside the
::>original boundaries and Roald wasn't enough of an 'attraction' to the
::>vrondi to keep them around so there may have been no vrondi nearby to
::>watch Kethry.
::
::My favorite explanation is somewhat simpler. Vanyel's spell doesn't
::prevent working magic, it just has vrondi do something that already
::fits their nature. Someone works magic, a nearby vrondi will come and
::look, and if they aren't a Herald, will basically keep watching them
::until a Herald-Mage shows up. If they keep working magic, more and
::more vrondi will show up and start watching, soon reaching a terminal
::annoyance/distraction level. Keep in mind that the bigger the magic,
::the more attractive to the vrondi.
In which case, the Star-Eyed had the Vrondi Wide-Eyed!
*Oooh! Magic!*
::At that cabin, you had the Herald-Heir, his Companion, a White Winds
::mage, a Swordsworn
::
::and Kal'endal Star-eyed made manifest
::
::It wouldn't amaze me if the Vrondi didn't even notice Kethry.
::
::(dog-pile on the Goddess, dog-pile on the Goddess)
The Dogs get spanked by the countless scroll-sworn, with 'rolled up
newspapers' of an ancient sort.
The sword-sworn have the flats of their blades,
the Shaman can cur you of what ails you,
and if Wild Horses could dissuade you, there's lots of *them*.
I think the Goddess is safe from annoyances.
=====================================================
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Discoverer of the Fountain of Chocolate (Innocent!)
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