mental power question
kurt White
> I was very disappointed by Forward, partly because of this
> situation. I didn't have any problems with Giskard's mental powers-- it
> was explained as a brilliant advance in robotics.
Excuse me, but wasn't it explained as a freak accident?? Wasn't Fastolfe's
daughter playing around with Giskard's programming one day when she accidently
did something to give Giskard mental powers? I find this interesting, but far
really unlikely. Anyway, it was a needed plot gap that needed filling.
I, personally, like the idea that R.Daneel "gave" the special powers to
Seldon's Granddaughter, and perhaps Seldon's assitant. After that, one could
just consider that each person has a certain tendency toward the ability to
read/emotions, commmunicate in other than usual methods, and to effect people.
When these tendencies are encouraged by some that have a good natural
tendency toward this kind of a thing, the powers can be encouraged to the exten
that one would become like one of the second foundation.
> I didn't have any problem with the powers of the Mule-- he was a
> mutant.
He was also from gaia, which Daneel created. And from what I remember, Bliss
explained something like that the people of Gaia were not actually robots,
but rather humans imprinted with the 4 laws. It's just kind of an ideal morals
thing.
> I didn't have any problem with the powers of the Second Foundation--
The second foundation was based on the powers of seldon's granddaughter and
those of
Athose of the other mathmatician helper guy.
> I didn't have any problems with the powers of Bliss and Gaia-- they
> had an integrated planetary consciousness.
Again, not a coincedence, gaia was created by daneel.
Kurt White
klw...@nyx.cs.du.edu
.
Sara Solnick
klw...@nyx.cs.du.edu (kurt White) writes
>> I was very disappointed by Forward, partly because of this
>> situation. I didn't have any problems with Giskard's mental powers-- it
>> was explained as a brilliant advance in robotics.
>
>Excuse me, but wasn't it explained as a freak accident?? Wasn't Fastolfe's
>daughter playing around with Giskard's programming one day when she accidently
>did something to give Giskard mental powers? I find this interesting, but far
>really unlikely. Anyway, it was a needed plot gap that needed filling.
OK, yes, it was an accident, but at the same time, she was a
(budding) brilliant roboticist. I'm willing to accept it, though,
whatever it was. (The "I was disappointed" message quoted throughout
is from me, although it wasn't attributed in the follow-up.)
>I, personally, like the idea that R.Daneel "gave" the special powers to
>Seldon's Granddaughter, and perhaps Seldon's assitant.
This is what I have trouble with. How did Daneel know it
would be helpful for Seldon's friends to have these special powers?
Why didn't he make them stronger-- or did he know that because
individually they couldn't manipulate people, they'd have to seek
others and this would be helpful? But how did he know that?
Since it doesn't make sense to me that it was by design,
it has to be coincidence, but then it seems like a mighty big one.
>> I didn't have any problem with the powers of the Mule-- he was a
>> mutant.
>
>He was also from gaia, which Daneel created. And from what I remember, Bliss
>explained something like that the people of Gaia were not actually robots,
>but rather humans imprinted with the 4 laws. It's just kind of an ideal morals
>thing.
The future was not chronicled in chronological order. So
we didn't find out about the Mule's possible origins until "much
later."
>> I didn't have any problem with the powers of the Second Foundation--
>
>The second foundation was based on the powers of seldon's granddaughter and
>those of the other mathmatician helper guy.
Again, we only *just* found out about this.
>> I didn't have any problems with the powers of Bliss and Gaia-- they
>> had an integrated planetary consciousness.
>
>Again, not a coincedence, gaia was created by daneel.
I didn't say I thought this was a coincidence. I said I
think it's perfectly reasonable. No matter how Gaia was created,
I can go along with the idea that by having the whole planet working
together, terrific power can be tapped. I can also believe there
was a mutant, from whatever home planet, with special abilities,
and that a group of people develop their natural gifts together
and acquire new skills. But I can't believe that Seldon's
granddaughter and bodyguard *just happened* to have the mental
powers, nor, as I explained above, does it make sense to me
that the hand of Daneel guided it all. So I just couldn't buy
the end of Forward. Of course, that's just me.
Brad Spachman
Solnick) wrote:
>
>
> >I, personally, like the idea that R.Daneel "gave" the special powers to
> >Seldon's Granddaughter, and perhaps Seldon's assitant.
>
> This is what I have trouble with. How did Daneel know it
> would be helpful for Seldon's friends to have these special powers?
> Why didn't he make them stronger-- or did he know that because
> individually they couldn't manipulate people, they'd have to seek
> others and this would be helpful? But how did he know that?
> Since it doesn't make sense to me that it was by design,
> it has to be coincidence, but then it seems like a mighty big one.
>
Huh? When did this happen? Was I reading so quickly that I missed Daneel's
interaction with Wanda? I thought Daneel disappeared after the first
consipiracy and didn't reappear until Seldon's funeral. The book makes it
pretty clear that Wanda's mental powers are some sort of genetic mutation.
Seldon even tries to have her genome analyzed to determine what makes her
mind the way it is.
Dave Horlick
It doesn't happen in the text of the book. We are speculating.