Robert Aickman
Adam Walter
review' on Amazon.com for Aickman's "Painted Devils" collection. If anyone
want's to take a look, it's here:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684159996/
I'd love to hear some feedback, especially on my well-meaning (honest!)
attempts to come to grips with Aickman's unique style through my "narrative
ambiguity" term.
~Adam Walter
moderan
The only Aickman book I own is the paperback "Cold Hand In Mine", which
I admit didn't enthrall me. Your sense of "narrative ambiguity" is
certainly evocative of what I remember of this author's stylings, and I
will essay a rereading of that volume based upon your recommendation.
However, from what I remember ( I bought the paperback new), what you
term "narrative ambiguity", I saw as "intentional auteurial vagueness",
and I seem to remember that it left a little *too* much to the reader's
imagination. Could be that's just me, though.
At any rate, your review is well-done, and has given me another book to
put on the to-read pile (near the top):-)
As the sig indicates, I'm one of those "Lovecraftians", but I have @500
volumes of horror/dark fantasy...so I have a little grounding in the
genre.
--
Duane Pesice
http://www.planetmoderan.com
"...common human laws and interests and emotions have no validity or
significance in the vast cosmos-at-large."
H. P. Lovecraft
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
awal...@my-deja.com
> Hi Adam,
>
> The only Aickman book I own is the paperback "Cold Hand In Mine", which
> I admit didn't enthrall me. Your sense of "narrative ambiguity" is
> certainly evocative of what I remember of this author's stylings, and I
> will essay a rereading of that volume based upon your recommendation.
> However, from what I remember ( I bought the paperback new), what you
> term "narrative ambiguity", I saw as "intentional auteurial vagueness",
> and I seem to remember that it left a little *too* much to the reader's
> imagination. Could be that's just me, though.
> At any rate, your review is well-done, and has given me another book to
> put on the to-read pile (near the top):-)
> As the sig indicates, I'm one of those "Lovecraftians", but I have @500
> volumes of horror/dark fantasy...so I have a little grounding in the
> genre.
>
> --
> Duane Pesice
> http://www.planetmoderan.com
Hello Duane, I have not finished all of "Cold Hand in Mine" yet. However,
I'd recommend that you stay away from "The Real Road to the Church" until
your Aickman appetite grows--it's one of his most turgid pieces. However,
"The Swords" and "The Hospice" are both in that volume, and are Aickman
classics. "Pages from a Young Girl's Journal" is also there. I have yet to
read it, but it is the story for which he won Best Short Work in the World
Fantasy Awards, 1976. I know that more than a few people have had trouble
with Aickman's narrative ambiguity. However, I'm not a big horror reader (I
do have a moderate interest in dark fantasy). Aickman was recommended to me
by a fellow fan of David Lynch's film work, and it's that similar talent for
wild abstraction that draws me to Aickman. His stories seem to point to one
central idea, that there is something fundamentally wrong with this world as
we perceive it. It's a chilling thought, and I haven't come across many
writers who can say that as convincingly as he does. ~Adam
awal...@my-deja.com
moderan
awal...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > Hi Adam,
> >
> > <snip preceding commentary>
I'll check it out, probably early next week, after I get done attending
ChiCon, and we'll see if the intervening years have changed my
attitudes toward Mr. Aickman's fiction...
--
Duane Pesice
http://www.planetmoderan.com
"...common human laws and interests and emotions have no validity or
significance in the vast cosmos-at-large."
H. P. Lovecraft
death...@my-deja.com
"Adam Walter" <awal...@prodigy.net> wrote:
> I recently spent sometime putting together a moderate sized 'customer
> review' on Amazon.com for Aickman's "Painted Devils" collection. If
anyone
> want's to take a look, it's here:
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684159996/
> I'd love to hear some feedback, especially on my well-meaning
(honest!)
> attempts to come to grips with Aickman's unique style through
my "narrative
> ambiguity" term.
> ~Adam Walter
Nice effort, had a look at it just now. The only thing I'd really
question is the Lovecraft reference. I have no idea myself, but would
tend to doubt that he was much, if any, of an influence on Aickman's
work. It seems something like Surrealism played a far more important
influence than Lovecraft. But this could just be my general disinterest
in Lovecraft's work talking here.
John
awal...@my-deja.com
> Nice effort, had a look at it just now. The only thing I'd really
> question is the Lovecraft reference. I have no idea myself, but would
> tend to doubt that he was much, if any, of an influence on Aickman's
> work. It seems something like Surrealism played a far more important
> influence than Lovecraft. But this could just be my general
>disinterest in Lovecraft's work talking here.
I've read only a smattering of Lovecraft myself at this point; however,
there are some deep similarities between Aickman's "Ringing the Changes"
and Lovecraft's "The Shadow over Innsmouth." Since I couldn't be sure
if the connection was only in my mind, I refrained from making my
statement absolute.
Have you read "Innsmouth"? I think it's a fascinating story. I'm sure
it's been much imitated, but I was startled to come across two stories
recently that seem heavily influenced by it. The other being Neil
Gaiman's "Only the End of the World Again."
moderan
>
>
Neil Gaiman is a "Lovecraftian"-he wrote the introduction to the Del
Rey volume "Dreams of Terror and Death". He mentions that at that time
(April 1995) he had written three Lovecraftian stories. One in
the "World's End" Sandman collection (the first one*), the second in
Stephen Jones "Shadows Over Innsmouth" collection, and the third
(presumably unpublished) when he was younger, an autobiography of
Cthulhu...
While HPL isn't for everyone, he does have some fine tales, "Innsmouth"
being one of them. For more Lovecraft info, you might be better served
to visit alt.horror.cthulhu...specializing more in that sort of thing.
"...common human laws and interests and emotions have no validity or
significance in the vast cosmos-at-large."
H. P. Lovecraft
blackf...@my-deja.com
There comes a time when any "glossing" of artists, writers, etc.
that are important to only a few becomes welcome. However - I think
your comparisions of Aickman to Lovercraft is misguided (I admit I have
not read "Innsmouth" in years, so I'll look at it again). I think you
may be giving unknowing readers the wrong impression. Aickman is more
comparable to works by Le Fanu, Oliver Onions, M. R. James, and most
importantly Walter de la Mare. I also, recently have been steered by a
friend to reading Kafka as another possible similar writer. I have
never read anything in a Robert Aickman story that has made me think of
Lovecraft.
The David Lynch reference is also strange. I think the only
similarities between Lynch and Aickman is just that their work is
vastly different from the 'norm'. Actually, Lynch really is not all
that original. People like Luis "debaser" Bunuel (sometimes with S.
Dali) were doing the same surrealistic tricks years ago, most times
better. Not that I dislike Lynch totally, but he seems to be all over
the place. Anyway his major ideas and themes grow from a hostile
outside world and play havoc with his characters. In Aickman the horror
appears to (most times) grow from 'within' the characters.
But keep reading the Aickman. It is well worth your time. For a
better interpretation/discription of these tales read Peter Straubs
intro to "The Wine Dark Sea". He breaks it down quite well.
You asked.
-bfrancis
In article <8nt31j$4h2g$1...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com>,
"Adam Walter" <awal...@prodigy.net> wrote:
> I recently spent sometime putting together a moderate sized 'customer
> review' on Amazon.com for Aickman's "Painted s" collection. If
anyone
> want's to take a look, it's here:
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684159996/
> I'd love to hear some feedback, especially on my well-meaning
(honest!)
> attempts to come to grips with Aickman's unique style through
my "narrative
> ambiguity" term.
> ~Adam Walter
>
>
awal...@my-deja.com
> There comes a time when any "glossing" of artists, writers, etc.
> that are important to only a few becomes welcome. However - I think
> your comparisions of Aickman to Lovercraft is misguided (I admit I
> have not read "Innsmouth" in years, so I'll look at it again).
Well, I hope that I didn't give the impression that I was calling
Aickman a 'Lovecraftian.' I hope my statement about 'Ringing the
Changes' only communicated my opinion that the story bore a distinct
reseablance to 'The Shadow Over Innsmouth'--which I continue to feel
that it does.
> I also, recently have been steered by a
> friend to reading Kafka as another possible similar writer.
Taking some of the points from Straub's 'Wine-Dark Sea' introduction, I
think there are some similarities. Kafka and Aickman certainly have a
similar tone. I can especially recommend Kafka's 'The Country Doctor,'
'The Judgement,' and 'Graccus the Hunter.'
> The David Lynch reference is also strange. I think the only
> similarities between Lynch and Aickman is just that their work is
> vastly different from the 'norm'.
I know this is getting off topic, but I disagree, and I can't let the
slur on Lynch stand. ;)
Lynch and Aickman both take their audiences into a claustrophobic,
pocket universe filled with the strange and wonderful. The similarites
do go beyond their both being outside the mainstream. Granted, their
concerns differ greatly, but with each there is that feeling of being
given, as one of their audience, an intricately crafted dream world to
visit for a short spell. Also, it's interesting to note that Kafka and
Lynch are frequently compared.
Doug Jackson wrote the following about Lynch in 1996 for
24framespersecond.com, and I think that it's a fine summary of Lynch's
talent:
"After all, the world that Lynch puts forth on screen is not an
alternate reality-it's just an abstract representation of everyday
reality. Rather than abstractions of Form, however, the abstractions
imparted are ones of Essence. Under his direction the camera, serving by
convention as our proxy within the film's milieu, is free to dwell
protractedly on selected items or scenarios culled from real, mundane
existence. The premiation and unusual consideration of these otherwise
unremarkable objects, however, imparts to them a bias and scale
disproportionate to our conventional understanding. Thus, these bloated
abstracts introduce what might be described as 'gravitational anomalies'
within the fabric of our consensual understanding of Reality (which is
the film's fundamental context), disturbing, to varying degrees, the
remaining contents within the system and helping Lynch to establish his
desired mood."
If anyone wants to discuss this by direct e-mail, I'd be glad to. I
don't mean to disturb the newsgroup with this. Also, there's a Lynch
discussion group on egroups.com: the 'Lynch-List.'
~Adam
jimrockhill
awal...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
(Snip, sorry)
> > I also, recently have been steered by a
> > friend to reading Kafka as another possible similar writer.
> Taking some of the points from Straub's 'Wine-Dark Sea' introduction,
> I
> think there are some similarities. Kafka and Aickman certainly have a
> similar tone. I can especially recommend Kafka's 'The Country
> Doctor,''The Judgement,' and 'Graccus the Hunter.'
Kafka is essential. Any of these will do as well as other favorites of
mine including - not limited to those necessarily resembling Aickman -
'Before the Law,' 'In the Penal Colony,' 'Page from an Old Manuscript,'
'A Dream,'and many others. I regret that my German has become so rusty
that I cannot read much of his work outside translation anymore,
because it is even better in German. The older, standard translations
from Modern Library and Schocken are good, but the newer ones by
Neugroschel seem more idiomatic.
Jim
(Snip)
--
jimro...@my-deja.SPAMENOSPAM.com
kun...@hilltop.ic.edu
similarities between Lovecraft and Aickman. Kafka is, for me, at his
most powerful, when he focuses on the process of being singled out--and
often persecuted--for no apparent reason. That's very close to
Aickman's goal in a number of his stories too ("The View," "The Wine-
Dark Sea," "Compulsory Games," etc.). THough Lovecraft is a very
different writer, with much more of an explanatory apparatus to his
stories, a lot of their power (for me, at least) is generated by the
overall vision of a universe with malign powers that may well hurt you
solely because you happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
It's awfully general, I know, but Lovecraft and Aickman do seem to me
to share a general vision of a world fraught with dangers that we
cannot fully understand.
Robert
In article <8o167g$5o3$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
awal...@my-deja.com
> THough Lovecraft is a very
> different writer, with much more of an explanatory apparatus to his
> stories, a lot of their power (for me, at least) is generated by the
> overall vision of a universe with malign powers that may well hurt you
> solely because you happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
> It's awfully general, I know, but Lovecraft and Aickman do seem to me
> to share a general vision of a world fraught with dangers that we
> cannot fully understand.
>
> Robert
Well said, Robert. I'd also like to remind everyone of Lovecraft's "The
Music of Erich Zann," which bears a very strong resemblance to Aickman's
style (if not vice versa).
blackf...@my-deja.com
kun...@hilltop.ic.edu wrote:
> In this regard, I wonder if there may not be some very general
> similarities between Lovecraft and Aickman. Kafka is, for me, at his
> most powerful, when he focuses on the process of being singled out--
and
> often persecuted--for no apparent reason. That's very close to
> Aickman's goal in a number of his stories too ("The View," "The Wine-
> different writer, with much more of an explanatory apparatus to his
> stories, a lot of their power (for me, at least) is generated by the
> overall vision of a universe with malign powers that may well hurt you
> solely because you happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
> It's awfully general, I know, but Lovecraft and Aickman do seem to me
> to share a general vision of a world fraught with dangers that we
> cannot fully understand.
>
> Robert
I was thinking exactly the same thing a while after my last post. But
here again it seems that the major difference is that in Aickman a
great deal of the horror comes from or takes place in the characters
mind. Lovercraft has a very physical manifestation of his s. A lot
of what Aickman put out there could just be hallucination depending on
how you interpret the tales. And that is another point Aickman's tales
are more "character" drawn. With the exception of "Residents Only" I
cannot think of one Aickman story that takes on multiple points of view.
Yes, the isolation seems a strong quality from Kafka.I also like the
way it is all seems written so matter-of-factly. Maybe that just
translation, though.
-bf
awal...@my-deja.com
> I was thinking exactly the same thing a while after my last post. But
> here again it seems that the major difference is that in Aickman a
> great deal of the horror comes from or takes place in the characters
> mind. Lovercraft has a very physical manifestation of his s. A lot
> of what Aickman put out there could just be hallucination depending on
> how you interpret the tales. And that is another point Aickman's tales
> are more "character" drawn. With the exception of "Residents Only" I
> cannot think of one Aickman story that takes on multiple points of
view.
In general, I agree. But it's these particular instances of conjunction
that I get stuck on. :)
In fact, I might even agree more with you about Aickman's tendency to
keep things almost entirely in the head, if I hadn't just recently read
"Never Visit Venice" for the first time. I was rather disappointed by
the physical form which the horror takes at the end of that story.
This didn't seem much of a surprise (it's just the sort of thing one
might have predicted to happen), and it didn't quite seem worthy of the
beginning which really drew me into the character's mind and his
personal situation.
"Ringing the Changes," again, also presents the horror in a very
concrete way.
Another thing to be said for "The Music of Erich Zann"--this story
really does a great job of presenting an intensely subjective story
about a very immediate, convincing protagonist, which is what makes me
think of Aickman when I read it.
shi...@my-deja.com
awal...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> > Nice effort, had a look at it just now. The only thing I'd really
> > question is the Lovecraft reference. I have no idea myself, but
would
> > tend to doubt that he was much, if any, of an influence on Aickman's
> > work. It seems something like Surrealism played a far more important
> > influence than Lovecraft. But this could just be my general
> >disinterest in Lovecraft's work talking here.
>
> I've read only a smattering of Lovecraft myself at this point;
however,
> there are some deep similarities between Aickman's "Ringing the
Changes"
> and Lovecraft's "The Shadow over Innsmouth." Since I couldn't be sure
> if the connection was only in my mind, I refrained from making my
> statement absolute.
> Have you read "Innsmouth"? I think it's a fascinating story. I'm
sure
> it's been much imitated, but I was startled to come across two stories
> recently that seem heavily influenced by it. The other being Neil
> Gaiman's "Only the End of the World Again."
>
I think Gaiman must have been influenced by Aickman as well. Violent
Cases and Mr Punch both remind me very much of Aickman in the sense
that the clues are all there, but the solution is somehow insoluble
ship
awal...@prodigy.net
> I think Gaiman must have been influenced by Aickman as well. Violent
> Cases and Mr Punch both remind me very much of Aickman in the sense
> that the clues are all there, but the solution is somehow insoluble
>
> ship
> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > Before you buy.
> >
Yes. I'd say that at his best Gaiman does come close to Aickman. I've
always felt that 'Mr. Punch' was one of the few graphic novels that
could be considered legitimate literature. There is also 'Signal to
Noise'--another joint effort with Dave McKean. Gaiman's projects
always seem to come out best when he's partnered with McKean.
I just looked up that 'Lovecraftian' issue of The Sandman. It's issue
no. 51, and I remember this being one of my favorite single-issue
Sandman stories. It also bears a strong strong resemblance to a
Chesterton short story called 'The Angry Street.'
death...@my-deja.com
> I've read only a smattering of Lovecraft myself at this point;
however,
> there are some deep similarities between Aickman's "Ringing the
Changes"
> and Lovecraft's "The Shadow over Innsmouth." Since I couldn't be sure
> if the connection was only in my mind, I refrained from making my
> statement absolute.
> Have you read "Innsmouth"? I think it's a fascinating story. I'm
sure
> it's been much imitated, but I was startled to come across two stories
> recently that seem heavily influenced by it. The other being Neil
> Gaiman's "Only the End of the World Again."
The only thing I recall about Innsmouth is that it had something to do
with a creepy old town. That sounds like about as far as its similarity
with Aickman's story goes. I'm no expert on horror fiction, but I think
you'll find that the "creepy old village where things ain't quite
right" is not an unusual idea in horror stories.
On the other hand, I think your comments about similarities with
Aickman and work by Lynch and even Kafka isn't far off the mark.
Kafka's "The Country Doctor" certainly strikes me as a work in this
vein. Lynch's work sometimes achieves the same effect; actually
something in the structure of "Lost Highway" struck me as almost a rip-
off of Ramsey Campbell's story "Boiled Alive". Campbell, of course, is
something of an heir to Aickman, and is even better than Robert in many
ways - not least the strongly contemporary feel of many of his stories,
the mix of gritty & mundane realism and nightmarish unrealism so
beautifully achieved in much of his best work. Campbell's collections
DARK COMPANIONS and THE HEIGHT OF THE SCREAM are essential reading in
this regard.
John
awal...@prodigy.net
> The only thing I recall about Innsmouth is that it had something to do
> with a creepy old town. That sounds like about as far as its
>similarity with Aickman's story goes. I'm no expert on horror fiction,
>but I think you'll find that the "creepy old village where things
>ain't quite right" is not an unusual idea in horror stories.
Well if that were all, I guess I'd be comparing "Ringing the Changes"
to 90% of all "Twilight Zone" episodes. No, beyond the odd villiage,
you also have the nearby sea's complicity in the weirdness. You also
have the reticient, secretive inhabitants coming after the progatonists
in an unsettling hotel. Also you have the hordes of subhuman (or, with
"Ringing," maybe it is "post-human"?) beings, and the fact that the
villiage is isolated, with transportation coming through only at rare,
scheduled intervals.
If anyone reads the two stories back-to-back, I'm confident that they
will discover the similarities.
[snip] ...actually
> something in the structure of "Lost Highway" struck me as almost
>a rip-off of Ramsey Campbell's story "Boiled Alive".
That's interesting, I'll have to check that out. I've heard about all
the films Lynch "ripped off" for "Lost Highway" ("Jacob's Ladder,"
Bergman's "Persona," etc.).
death...@my-deja.com
awal...@prodigy.net wrote:
> Well if that were all, I guess I'd be comparing "Ringing the Changes"
> to 90% of all "Twilight Zone" episodes. No, beyond the odd villiage,
> you also have the nearby sea's complicity in the weirdness. You also
> have the reticient, secretive inhabitants coming after the
progatonists
> in an unsettling hotel. Also you have the hordes of subhuman (or,
with
> "Ringing," maybe it is "post-human"?) beings, and the fact that the
> villiage is isolated, with transportation coming through only at rare,
> scheduled intervals.
> If anyone reads the two stories back-to-back, I'm confident that they
> will discover the similarities.
You may be right, but I'd still be inclined to believe the similarities
between Aickman and Lovecraft's stories are coincidental at most.
>
> [snip] ...actually
> > something in the structure of "Lost Highway" struck me as almost
> >a rip-off of Ramsey Campbell's story "Boiled Alive".
>
> That's interesting, I'll have to check that out. I've heard about all
> the films Lynch "ripped off" for "Lost Highway" ("Jacob's Ladder,"
> Bergman's "Persona," etc.).
I didn't actually mean that Lynch's film WAS a rip-off; indeed it's
just as likely that Lynch hasn't even heard of Campbell (though I think
he'd have an affinity for much of Ramsey's work). There's just an
interesting similarity between Campbell's story and Lynch's film, but
otherwise the two are very different pieces of work infused with a
weird nightmare logic. The Campbell story is excellent, whereas I was a
little disappointed with Lynch's last genre film.
death...@my-deja.com
awal...@prodigy.net wrote:
> I have read "Boiled Alive" now, and I agree that it is a very
> interesting story. I was not at all disappointed with "Lost Highway,"
> but that's another discussion.
> Perhaps "Boiled Alive" can be seen as an abstract precedent in idea-
> space for David Lynch and Barry Gifford's film. But it seems that a
> certain facet of "Boiled Alive" (1986) has a precedent itself in
> Cronenberg's "Videodrome" (1983).
Good point, I didn't even think of Videodrome but now that you mention
it the link seems stronger between that film and Campbell's story. Note
that both Videodrome and "Boiled Alive" allow the possibility that the
whole experience each depicts, the merging of reality with a virtual,
video "reality", may be only the result of an increasingly delusional
main character succumbing to a madness precipitated by some initial
stimulus (prank phone calls/subsumed guilt over car accident deaths -
exposure to snuff film subculture/virtual reality gizmo).
> However, an even stronger precent for "Lost Highway" is the short
> project Gifford and Lynch did for HBO, the two "Hotel Room" films--one
> of them being very Kafkaesque ("Tricks") and the other being like the
> dark southern fiction of Falkner and Flannery O'Conner ("Blackout").
Ah, never had a chance to catch those, unfortunately. As to Lynch's
Lost Highway, I can't really judge it well as the only time I saw it at
the cinema there were distractions. I'll definitely have to watch it
again eventually and make some sense of it. There were aspects to it
that impressed me, but the overall impression was that Lynch was being
frustratingly difficult for his first outing in how many years.
What was your take on Lost Highway anyway?
awal...@prodigy.net
> Ah, never had a chance to catch those, unfortunately. As to Lynch's
> Lost Highway, I can't really judge it well as the only time I saw it
at
> the cinema there were distractions. I'll definitely have to watch it
> again eventually and make some sense of it. There were aspects to it
> that impressed me, but the overall impression was that Lynch was being
> frustratingly difficult for his first outing in how many years.
>
> What was your take on Lost Highway anyway?
>
> John
If you're interested in an excellent analysis of Lynch's work, I highly
recommend "David Lynch" by the French scholar of cinema Michel Chion.
I had just finished reading this book when I saw Lost Highway (so, of
course, there is no Lost Highway material up to that point). But
having read Chion's book openned up Lynch's world for me, and I took
Lost Highway in and felt that it was something of a masterpiece.
Basically, my interpretation comes from a Jungian foundation (though I
can't say I got *that* from Chion), interpreting the story as though
the film itself were a single psyche and each character an element of
that psyche. Jungian psychology interprets fairy tales and dreams in
this way, and I think some of Lynch's films lend themselves to this
method.
So I take Fred/Pete's interaction with the "Mystery Man" (Robert Blake)
as a struggle with the Shadow. And the interaction with Alice/Renee
(Patricia Arquette) is a struggle with the Anima.
Actually, my interpretation is pretty detailed, and I keep meaning to
write it up into an article form. Maybe someday... :7)
~Adam Walter
death...@my-deja.com
awal...@prodigy.net wrote:
>
> If you're interested in an excellent analysis of Lynch's work, I
highly
> recommend "David Lynch" by the French scholar of cinema Michel Chion.
> I had just finished reading this book when I saw Lost Highway (so, of
> course, there is no Lost Highway material up to that point). But
> having read Chion's book openned up Lynch's world for me, and I took
> Lost Highway in and felt that it was something of a masterpiece.
> Basically, my interpretation comes from a Jungian foundation (though I
> can't say I got *that* from Chion), interpreting the story as though
> the film itself were a single psyche and each character an element of
> that psyche. Jungian psychology interprets fairy tales and dreams in
> this way, and I think some of Lynch's films lend themselves to this
> method.
> So I take Fred/Pete's interaction with the "Mystery Man" (Robert
Blake)
> as a struggle with the Shadow. And the interaction with Alice/Renee
> (Patricia Arquette) is a struggle with the Anima.
> Actually, my interpretation is pretty detailed, and I keep meaning to
> write it up into an article form. Maybe someday... :7)
>
> ~Adam Walter
So to you it works purely symbolically? I can appreciate that somewhat.
It's seems to be sort of the same situation with some of Aickman's
stories, where they can make a degree of sense when interpreted in a
similar way. But still, there's something unsatisfying in that because
it excludes a lot of the story's detail, much of which seems to point
at some kind of elusive logic.
One thing that really struck me about Lost Highway was how, in the
first half, Arquette's performance was almost a write-off. She was so
lifeless as the brunette (Alice?) that it almost ruined the film for
me. But there was definitely a transformation in her performance when
she showed up as an apparently different woman (Renee, I take it) in
roughly the film's second half. Could this be of any significance?
awal...@prodigy.net
> So to you it works purely symbolically? I can appreciate that
somewhat.
> It's seems to be sort of the same situation with some of Aickman's
> stories, where they can make a degree of sense when interpreted in a
> similar way. But still, there's something unsatisfying in that because
> it excludes a lot of the story's detail, much of which seems to point
> at some kind of elusive logic.
Exactly! But elusive logic is also what you find in dreams and in
fairy tales--story systems with very similar structure to Lost
Highway. Perhaps symbolic storytelling is unsatisfying for some
people, but I find it incredibly exciting. To me there's nothing
better than an intricate fairy tale.
I think that when a person begins to feel these sort of things a bit
dull, that person is probably in the very same place where one begins
to feel that one's self is dull... when considering that the
psychological Self is largely made up of symbol. Jungian psychology
points to this trouble, as does Transactional Analysis--a school of
thought established by Dr. Eric Berne.
> One thing that really struck me about Lost Highway was how, in the
> first half, Arquette's performance was almost a write-off. She was so
> lifeless as the brunette (Alice?) that it almost ruined the film for
> me. But there was definitely a transformation in her performance when
> she showed up as an apparently different woman (Renee, I take it) in
> roughly the film's second half. Could this be of any significance?
Yes, in that first part she is Renee, Fred's wife. But if we take the
story as multiple layers of symbol and myth-making, we might take the
second part of the film (Pete's story) as a sort of fantasy of Fred's--
projecting himself into a younger, more innocent self (Pete). At that
point he has more than one woman, and Alice (Arquette's second
manifestation) is more flashy and more dangerous--but Fred still builds
his fantasy on an esstiential Renee-based foundation. Thus, the two
women are played by the same actress.
death...@my-deja.com
awal...@prodigy.net wrote:
> Exactly! But elusive logic is also what you find in dreams and in
> fairy tales--story systems with very similar structure to Lost
> Highway. Perhaps symbolic storytelling is unsatisfying for some
> people, but I find it incredibly exciting. To me there's nothing
> better than an intricate fairy tale.
> I think that when a person begins to feel these sort of things a bit
> dull, that person is probably in the very same place where one begins
> to feel that one's self is dull... when considering that the
> psychological Self is largely made up of symbol. Jungian psychology
> points to this trouble, as does Transactional Analysis--a school of
> thought established by Dr. Eric Berne.
It's not that I find the symbolic storytelling (or interpretations) of
works like Lost Highway or Aickman's stories to be dull.
By "unsatisfying" I mean these sorts of interpretations leave me
wondering: is that all there is to this story? It could very well be,
but the elusive logic, the unresolved hints and details, when handled
well leaves the reader or viewer (or just me, anyway) wondering at just
what exactly has transpired.
I think just about every creative work functions symbolically to some
extent. Every artist to some degree, intentionally and unintentionally,
infuses their work with elements from their subconcious. But at the
very least Aickman and Lynch manage to give the varying impression
that, in their often near impenetrable dramas, there is much more going
on "behind the scenes" than we see or may comprehend. And it's these
enigmas which I find most haunting about their work, rather than their
symbolism - the old "mystery that lasts not the explanation" bit I
guess.
> Yes, in that first part she is Renee, Fred's wife. But if we take the
> story as multiple layers of symbol and myth-making, we might take the
> second part of the film (Pete's story) as a sort of fantasy of Fred's-
-
> projecting himself into a younger, more innocent self (Pete).
Yes, but the problem I'd have with that interpretation is that it seems
that Lynch is suggesting that Pete had a complete existence totally
independent of Fred prior to the baffling "transformation" - like Fred
had stolen or been absorbed by an existing identity rather than simply
imagining or creating a new one. But my memory is foggy on the finer
points so this could be totally inaccurate.
At that
> point he has more than one woman, and Alice (Arquette's second
> manifestation) is more flashy and more dangerous--but Fred still
builds
> his fantasy on an esstiential Renee-based foundation. Thus, the two
> women are played by the same actress.
Could be. It definitely seems like both were somehow involved with the
Weird Guy who seemed to be manipulating Fred's life like some nutty
supernatural puppeteer. The question is, where the hell did Fred
himself begin and end? And what of that Dick Laurent (?) guy.
Symbolism's a good tool for getting into the subtext, but with Lost
Highway, like with Aickman, the work isn't abstract enough to be purely
symbolic, while it's well crafted enough to intrigue while defying any
straightforward explanation.
awal...@prodigy.net
> By "unsatisfying" I mean these sorts of interpretations leave me
> wondering: is that all there is to this story? It could very well be,
> but the elusive logic, the unresolved hints and details, when handled
> well leaves the reader or viewer (or just me, anyway) wondering at
just
> what exactly has transpired.
>
> I think just about every creative work functions symbolically to some
> extent. Every artist to some degree, intentionally and
unintentionally,
> infuses their work with elements from their subconcious. But at the
> very least Aickman and Lynch manage to give the varying impression
> that, in their often near impenetrable dramas, there is much more
going
> on "behind the scenes" than we see or may comprehend. And it's these
> enigmas which I find most haunting about their work, rather than their
> symbolism - the old "mystery that lasts not the explanation" bit I
> guess.
Well, I think you can have it both ways. There is symbolism there, but
maybe not all of it can be interpreted fully or "amplified" (as the
Jungians would say) in a way that would lay out a clear, rationalized
map of the story. I think that you can dive into the unconscious and
find images and symbols that don't have a clear correspondent in the
rational world. In fact this sort of art seems to acknowledge the
iceberg-like fact of the human experience, meaning that only a small
part of our experience in the natural world rises above the waterline
and corresponds to conscious rational, and a much large part of our
experience lies with the unconsious and irrational.
Poet Robert Bly puts it this way when describing the same phenomenon in
poetry: 'In ancient times, in the "time of inspiration", the poet flew
from one world to another, "riding on dragons".... They dragged behind
them long tails of dragonsmoke.... This dragonsmoke means that a leap
has taken place in the poem. In many ancient works of art we notice a
long floating leap at the center of a work. That leap can be described
as a leap from the conscious to the unconscious and back again, a leap
from the known part of the mind to the unknown part and back to the
known.'
Bly's "leap" and "dragonsmoke" are obviously irrational, intuitional
phenomena that can't be mapped in the usual way.