Lewis translator needs help!
Mette Jensen
I am currently working on a Danish translation of "Till We Have Faces", and
I have encountered some problems for which various dictionaries don't seem
to give me much help. I would be most gratefull if someone could help me out
on a few of them...
. 1. The child was very big, not a wearish little thing...
"wearish"?
2. For two straws I'd have you to the guardhouse to be flocked.
"for two straws"?
3. What is he to either of us? I'll not shame your mother or mine to say
he's not our father. If so, the name "father" is a curse.
"I'll not shame... to say..."?
4. All those wilder misgivings, all the fluttering to and fro between two
opinions, was quite over.
Can "wilder" mean "confused" here?
5. I had had half a thought, at the outset, of telling him about the ferly,
my glimpse of the palace.
"Ferly"?
6. With rest, and peace, and loving care... oh, we'd bring her into frame
again.
"bring her into frame" ?
7. Yet I questioned him much about what he called the physical parts of
philosofy, about the seminal fire, and how soul arises from blood, and the
periods of the universe.
"seminal fire"?
8. 'I was beaten in a cavalry skirmish,' he said, 'and had to ride for it,
which would be little odds but that I missed my way and blundered into
Glome.'
I'm unsure of "had to ride for it" and "would be little odds but..."
9. There was some talk of dressing him fine too, but he refused this. "I'll
fare no better in purple than in my old battle order."
Could "battle order" be his clothes???
10. ...there had been cencing and slaughtering, and pouring of wine and
pouring of blood, and dancing and feasting and towsing of girls (in the
temple).
"towsing"?
11. A face such as you might see in a loaf, swollen, brooding, infinitely
female.
Could "loaf" mean anything else than a loaf of bread here - it seems rather
strange!
12. That's the easy knowledge, the first lesson; only a fool would stay
there, posturing and repeating it.
"posturing"?
Thanks a lot.
Mette Jensen,
Danish translator of C.S. Lewis.
David R L Porter
I'm sure you will get a lot of answers - here's my contribution ...
> . 1. The child was very big, not a wearish little thing...
> "wearish"?
The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) defines this as weak, insipid or tasteless.
> 2. For two straws I'd have you to the guardhouse to be flocked.
> "for two straws"?
--- 'I would need very little provocation or reason'
> 3. What is he to either of us? I'll not shame your mother or mine to say
> he's not our father. If so, the name "father" is a curse.
> "I'll not shame... to say..."?
--- 'I won't bring disgrace on them' (or on their memory, perhaps).
> 4. All those wilder misgivings, all the fluttering to and fro between two
> opinions, was quite over.
> Can "wilder" mean "confused" here?
--- more the sense of 'reckless', I would have thought, with a
connotation of 'incoherent' included.
> 5. I had had half a thought, at the outset, of telling him about the ferly,
> my glimpse of the palace.
> "Ferly"?
OED again: a marvel or a wondrous thing.
> 6. With rest, and peace, and loving care... oh, we'd bring her into frame
> again.
> "bring her into frame" ?
''Bring her into view' would be the meaning of the image as
originally used in film-making: in the wider use of the image here it
means something like 'bring her back into the same reality the rest
of us live in'
> 7. Yet I questioned him much about what he called the physical parts of
> philosofy, about the seminal fire, and how soul arises from blood, and the
> periods of the universe.
> "seminal fire"?
Seminal, from 'semen' = seed, means something that is an origin or
source: hence in philosophy you get seminal ideas on which other
build and develop.
One would need to see more of the context to say exactly how Lewis is
using the image here, but it's probably the Heraclitean fire concept,
of a fire that lies at the heart of things
> 8. 'I was beaten in a cavalry skirmish,' he said, 'and had to ride for it,
> which would be little odds but that I missed my way and blundered into
> Glome.'
> I'm unsure of "had to ride for it"
'Was forced to ride my horse hard to make my escape'
and "would be little odds but..."
'There would be a very good chance that ...' (it's an image from gambling)
> 9. There was some talk of dressing him fine too, but he refused this. "I'll
> fare no better in purple than in my old battle order."
> Could "battle order" be his clothes???
Yes. Battledress, or the clothes worn in battle by the ordinary
soldier -- not necessarily a fine uniform, that's the point. The
retired sergeant who ran errands for the headmaster at my old school
used to announce on hot days, telling us we were now allowed to
remove our school jackets, 'Shirt-sleeve order today, gentlemen!'. In
this usage 'order' means a prescribed dress code.
> 10. ...there had been cencing and slaughtering, and pouring of wine and
> pouring of blood, and dancing and feasting and towsing of girls (in the
> temple).
> "towsing"?
Ah, a very G.K. Chesterton-ish word! it means 'roughly pulling about;
making dishevelled; treating roughly' -- in this context, probably
boisteroush drunken behaviour rather than deliberate abuse of women,
though I doubt if the women enjoyed it as much as the men did ....
> 11. A face such as you might see in a loaf, swollen, brooding, infinitely
> female.
> Could "loaf" mean anything else than a loaf of bread here - it seems rather
> strange!
I think he probably means the kind of vision where somebody claims to
see the face of God, Mary or an angel in something ordinary like
clouds or, in this case, a loaf of bread. In the TV cartoon strip
'The Simpsons', in one episode God makes an appearance and says as he
leaves, something like 'I must go, I have an appointment to appear on
a tortilla somewhere' ... a very English, albeit USA English, joke ....
> 12. That's the easy knowledge, the first lesson; only a fool would stay
> there, posturing and repeating it.
> "posturing"?
Striking a self-conscious pose or attitude in order to make an
impression or to draw attention to oneself.
> Thanks a lot.
No problem. I'll come to you for help when I'm translating
Kierkegaard :)))))))))))
If this information is not enough, can I suggest you give us the page
numbers in the book where these passages occur, so we can consider the context?
You may find the English reference book helpful, 'Brewer's Dictionary
of Phrase and Fable'. The fifteenth edition, revised by Adrian Broom,
is published in the UK by Cassell and I'm sure you could get it, or a
later edition perhaps, from Amazon.
--
Best wishes,
Andrew Solovay
excellent response:
In article <199906111...@zetnet.co.uk>,
David R L Porter <david....@zetnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > 3. What is he to either of us? I'll not shame your mother or mine
> > to say
> > he's not our father. If so, the name "father" is a curse.
> > "I'll not shame... to say..."?
>
> --- 'I won't bring disgrace on them' (or on their memory, perhaps).
That is, if the King weren't their father, that would mean that their
mothers had committed adultery-- so Maia won't shame their mothers by
saying "He isn't our father", even though he never acted like a father.
> > 5. I had had half a thought, at the outset, of telling him about
the ferly,
> > my glimpse of the palace.
> > "Ferly"?
>
> OED again: a marvel or a wondrous thing.
And if it matters, "ferly" comes from the same root as the English
word "fear"-- so "ferly" has a sense of being a frightening, as well as
wondrous, thing.
> > 6. With rest, and peace, and loving care... oh, we'd bring her into
> > frame again.
> > "bring her into frame" ?
>
> ''Bring her into view' would be the meaning of the image as
> originally used in film-making: in the wider use of the image here it
> means something like 'bring her back into the same reality the rest
> of us live in'
Disagree here. "Frame" can mean "physique". I think "bring her into
frame" means, "make her healthy again"-- the Fox things that Psyche's
horrible experiences have made her sick, and that's why she's mad.
> > 8. 'I was beaten in a cavalry skirmish,' he said, 'and had to ride
for it,
> > which would be little odds but that I missed my way and blundered
into
> > Glome.'
>
> > I'm unsure of "would be little odds but..."
>
> 'There would be a very good chance that ...' (it's an image from
> gambling)
Disagree here-- that doesn't, IMHO, make sense in context. I
think "little odds" means something like "little importance", so "would
be little odds but" means "wouldn't matter, except for the fact that..."
In other words, it wouldn't matter that the prince had lost one battle
and had to ride for his escape-- after all, he still had the stronger
army and was more popular-- *except* for the fact that he lost his way,
and ended up in another country completely cut off from his army.
> > 10. ...there had been cencing and slaughtering, and pouring of wine
> > and pouring of blood, and dancing and feasting and towsing of girls
> > (in the temple).
> > "towsing"?
>
> Ah, a very G.K. Chesterton-ish word! it means 'roughly pulling about;
> making dishevelled; treating roughly'...
But specifically, I think it means "having sexual intercourse with".
They seem to have practised temple prostitution in Glome (a very common
practice in the ancient near east, especially in temples of
earth/fertility goddesses). Note, for example, that the context
(ommitted from the quote above) is the *smells* of the temple-- Orual
could smell that they'd had sex (like she could smell the feasting and
slaughtering and burned incense), but I don't think she could smell
mere "boisterous behavior".
Supporting evidence: Orual says somewhere that the temple girls were
all "barren after a few years", or something like that-- implying
sexual misuse.
--
Andrew Solovay
"I believe your own accent to be inimitable,
though I shall practise it in my bath."
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Mette Jensen
Mrs. Mette Jensen