A muggy Tuesday night in Birmingham
Caitlin R. Kiernan
So, another two weeks and, as promised, here I am again.
But I'm *really* pooped because I've apparently lost the simple ability
to say "no" to work (How many comic books can you write *this* month?
Just one more, eh? No, really...."), even when the deadlines are piled
high over my head, threatening to come toppling over and...well, there
you go.
Anyway, just some quicks responses and comments before I go off to hide
in something someone *else* wrote for a little while...
1. I found the reactions to "My Year As A Man" interesting. I rather
liked it myself. Though it was originally conceived of as a one-off, and
the first draft was written long before it could have ben anything else,
it wound up working as a nice epilogue to "Unkindness of One," I
thought. And some of the stuff we learn in the story will show up far
down the road (tease, tease).
2. Siouxsie Sioux: I had never really thought about Siouxsie Sioux as an
influence, though I've credited a *lot* of other songwriters with a very
direct influence on my style (Michael Stipe, Nick Cave, Tom Waits,
Andrew Eldritch). So, when Jennifer read me that message I got to
thinking about it and reading lyrics and yep, I see the connection. And
that was kind of cool, the unexpected insight. (And, for what it's
worth, I encourage long quoting sessions to demonstrate these
things...). I do adore Siouxsie, especially TINDERBOX, PEEPSHOW, and
THROUGH THE LOOKING GLASS. I disagree about her later stuff (but I don't
remember who I'm disagreeing with, so forgive me), and am very fond of
SUPERSTITION.
3. I finally did the Kevin Bacon thing and it kinda creeped me out.
There are several routes connecting me to him by only four or five
steps. Actually, there's a three step one: I once got a phone call from
Courtney Love, Courtney Love was in an Oliver Stone film, Kevin Bacon
was in an Oliver Stone film. Creepy.
4. Why I write in present tense... One of the ways that the works and
ideas of the Modernists have impressed me is their desire to create
prose that more accurately reflects the process of human thought, by
removing as much artifact as possible without destroying language (or
ceasing to make sense). The literary impressionism of books like ULYSSES
and poems like THE WASTE LAND have been very important. Anyway, I've
always viewed stories told in past tense as particularly artifactual.
That is, who's telling the story? It's a literary holdover from oral
storytelling traditions, when you didn't have to ask that question
because the answer was obvious. For me, at least, past tense has become
a serious obstacle to the suspension of disbelief. Part of this may be
th effect that film has had on me, in particular, and our culture, in
general. I'm very visual and stories tend to occur to me as visual
images that gradually coalesce into narratives. Film, by its nature, and
with very few exceptions, is a medium that requires present tense. You
see the story as it happens, even if its a period piece and even if
you've seen it a hundred times. I feel fiction greatly benefits from
this approach, removing a "wall" of sorts and bringing the reader closer
to the events of the narrative. I'm pretty sure "Bela's Plot," which I
wrote in December 1994, was my first present tense short story (and the
ninth story I wrote); there is some present tense earlier, in "To This
Water (Johnstown, Pennsylvania 1889)" and in THE FIVE OF CUPS, but it
wasn't the dominant tense in either case).
That said, some of you will be relieved to hear that SILK is written in
past tense. After I read through the page proofs, I was *very*
disappointed that I'd done this (I even thought about rewriting the
manuscript) and commented on that disappointment to Neil and he said, ah
well, there's always next time.
5. Alien: I entirely agree about stories written in second person and on
those rare occassions when I offer advice on writing, one of the things
I usually say is *NEVER* write in second person. For exactly the reason
you give...
6. Actually, that business of picking up names from writers you admire,
names you haven't seen before and reading them, that's a way that
writers have found to *circumvent* the marketing people.
And since I've nattered on far longer than I intended, I should go.
I hope these long posts aren't intimidating; I've noticed that the
internet seems dominated by telegraphic, brief messages, and I think
that tends to retard genuine discussions. Ideas take time to
communicate, but that's a dead horse for another day...
There really will be a Salmagundi newsletter in a few weeks, maybe about
June. And I do look forward to meeting the folks that can make the
Birmingham or NYC release parties.
In Pain and Wonder,
Me (Cait)
alien
Caitlin R. Kiernan wrote:
> And since I've nattered on far longer than I intended, I should go.
> I hope these long posts aren't intimidating; I've noticed that the
> internet seems dominated by telegraphic, brief messages, and I think
> that tends to retard genuine discussions. Ideas take time to
> communicate, but that's a dead horse for another day...
Don't be silly...we love long posts...gives us something to do with
our lives...
> There really will be a Salmagundi newsletter in a few weeks, maybe
> about
> June. And I do look forward to meeting the folks that can make the
> Birmingham or NYC release parties.
Why don't we have shit like this in Louisville? All we have is the
derby, and who goes to that besides Dixie Carter???
Valerie
On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 23:44:03 +0000, "Caitlin R. Kiernan"
<ca...@gothic.net> wrote:
>But I'm *really* pooped because I've apparently lost the simple ability
>to say "no" to work (How many comic books can you write *this* month?
>Just one more, eh? No, really...."), even when the deadlines are piled
>high over my head, threatening to come toppling over and...well, there
>you go.
Aaiii, so this is what happens to a succesful writer.The good thing of
course is that we have so many things to look forward to in the
future.
Any new comics besides The Dreaming and The Girl
Who Would Be Death (as if this isn't enough).
>(And, for what it's worth, I encourage long quoting sessions to demonstrate these
>things...).
So, come on Wolf, let's hear it for these Siouxsie quotes!
>3. I finally did the Kevin Bacon thing and it kinda creeped me out.
>There are several routes connecting me to him by only four or five
>steps. Actually, there's a three step one: I once got a phone call from
>Courtney Love, Courtney Love was in an Oliver Stone film, Kevin Bacon
>was in an Oliver Stone film. Creepy.
We once had a visiting scientist from Poland named Erdus who described
this phenomenon in scientific terms. Since then we have called this
phenomenon the "Erdus-distance". Although the original idea was that
the connections had to be made by handshakes, we have expanded it by
including telephone calls, e-mails etc.
>That said, some of you will be relieved to hear that SILK is written in
>past tense. After I read through the page proofs, I was *very*
>disappointed that I'd done this (I even thought about rewriting the
>manuscript) and commented on that disappointment to Neil and he said, ah
>well, there's always next time.
Any plans yet for a new novel then?
>6. Actually, that business of picking up names from writers you admire,
>names you haven't seen before and reading them, that's a way that
>writers have found to *circumvent* the marketing people.
And it works, there are so many books/writers I have picked up
because they were recommended by writers I admire (e.g. Harlan
Ellison -> Dan Simmons -> Poppy Z. Brite -> etc.).
I am also very interested in hearing what everybody in this ng has
been reading recently which they can recommend to others. The last 2
books I read were great sf novels: "Slow River" by Nicola Griffith and
"Faraday's Orphans" by N. Lee Wood and I can recommend these to anyone
who is even slightly interested in sf..
>And since I've nattered on far longer than I intended, I should go.
>I hope these long posts aren't intimidating; I've noticed that the
>internet seems dominated by telegraphic, brief messages, and I think
>that tends to retard genuine discussions.
True, the perception of the Internet being such a "fast" medium has
given people the idea that they also have to write "fast", for which I
also will plead guilty to some extent..
And as for intimidating, no, I kinda like these long posts myself.
My morning ritual at work is first to check the ng's for new posts
while sipping my first cup of coffee. The longer (and more
interesting) the posts, the more I enjoy my coffee (as well as
postponing starting my work).
>There really will be a Salmagundi newsletter in a few weeks, maybe about
>June. And I do look forward to meeting the folks that can make the
>Birmingham or NYC release parties.
*very deep sigh*
Is somebody going to take some photo's of these events, so that at
least we can get an idea of how these events were?
Love,
Valerie
Jennifer Caudle
Valerie wrote:
>
> On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 23:44:03 +0000, "Caitlin R. Kiernan"
> <ca...@gothic.net> wrote:
>
> >But I'm *really* pooped because I've apparently lost the simple ability
> >to say "no" to work (How many comic books can you write *this* month?
> >Just one more, eh? No, really...."), even when the deadlines are piled
> >high over my head, threatening to come toppling over and...well, there
> >you go.
> Aaiii, so this is what happens to a succesful writer.The good thing of
> course is that we have so many things to look forward to in the
> future.
> Any new comics besides The Dreaming and The Girl
> Who Would Be Death (as if this isn't enough).
Well, Cait will have a Dreaming story in the next WINTER'S EDGE (the
Vertigo holiday sampler) -- by herself this time rather than cowritten
with Peter Hogan. Right now she's madly trying to get through with THE
GIRL WHO WOULD BE DEATH, which is almost done, then she's got to do the
Winter's Edge story (which will be called "Twelfth Noght Blues") and get
back to THE DREAMING proper before she gets behind. There are several
other projects for DC in the works, but they're all sort of on the back
burner for the moment, so I'll post details when it's clearer what's
going to come next.
> >And I do look forward to meeting the folks that can make the
> >Birmingham or NYC release parties.
> *very deep sigh*
> Is somebody going to take some photo's of these events, so that at
> least we can get an idea of how these events were?
>
I'll take some pictures and post them at Pandora Station.
> Love,
>
> Valerie
Wolf
Jennifer Caudle wrote:
> Well, Cait will have a Dreaming story in the next WINTER'S EDGE (the
> Vertigo holiday sampler) -- by herself this time rather than cowritten
> with Peter Hogan.
I haven't been able to track that first issue with Deck The Halls down
yet, but hopefully I'll get it through my store's backorder in the next
few weeks. But has anyone else in here read it already?
Wolf
http://members.tripod.com/~Wolfghost/index.htm
"Imagine the ability to gather roses in winter."
Wolf
Caitlin R. Kiernan wrote:
>
> So, another two weeks and, as promised, here I am again.
>
> to say "no" to work (How many comic books can you write *this* month?
> Just one more, eh? No, really...."), even when the deadlines are piled
> high over my head, threatening to come toppling over and...well, there
> you go.
Time is something more and more people seem to be short of. Sunday is
turning out to be the only day for me when I can write some mail and
posts. I could during the week, but time is so limited then that, if I
may quote Sandy, my heart wouldn't be in it.
> 1. I found the reactions to "My Year As A Man" interesting. I rather
> liked it myself. Though it was originally conceived of as a one-off, and
> the first draft was written long before it could have ben anything else,
> it wound up working as a nice epilogue to "Unkindness of One," I
> thought. And some of the stuff we learn in the story will show up far
> down the road (tease, tease).
The ravens have already started to play more important roles, which is
something I'm really thrilled about, and it seems that you really enjoy
writing about Matthew. And that story far down the road will have more
ravens I presume?
> 2. Siouxsie Sioux: I had never really thought about Siouxsie Sioux as an
> influence, though I've credited a *lot* of other songwriters with a very
> direct influence on my style (Michael Stipe, Nick Cave, Tom Waits,
> Andrew Eldritch). So, when Jennifer read me that message I got to
> thinking about it and reading lyrics and yep, I see the connection. And
> that was kind of cool, the unexpected insight. (And, for what it's
> worth, I encourage long quoting sessions to demonstrate these
> things...). I do adore Siouxsie, especially TINDERBOX, PEEPSHOW, and
> THROUGH THE LOOKING GLASS. I disagree about her later stuff (but I don't
> remember who I'm disagreeing with, so forgive me), and am very fond of
> SUPERSTITION.
Okay, we will have a quoting session then. :) Perhaps I'll post
something about it later on, because I want to make sure that it's not
going to be a bunch of quotes from just my favorite songs. For who's
interested and for what it's worth, these are the albums I'm most fond
of: Tinderbox, Kaleidoscope, Juju and A Kiss In The Dreamhouse. The
others are great as well except for the newer stuff, which a lot of
people seem to agree on anyway.
You can wake me up with Red Over White anytime, and I consider Cleo's
Reflections In The LookingGlass a very nice tribute, although there are
a few songs on it which just don't cut it.
> And since I've nattered on far longer than I intended, I should go.
> I hope these long posts aren't intimidating; I've noticed that the
> internet seems dominated by telegraphic, brief messages, and I think
> that tends to retard genuine discussions. Ideas take time to
> communicate, but that's a dead horse for another day...
Better scarse, long and interesting then frequent, short and boring. :)
Wolf, hopefully a bit interesting, because his posts *have* been scarse
lately
Sandy Atwood
Valerie wrote:
I am also very interested in hearing what everybody in this ng has
been reading recently which they can recommend to others.
Sorry I've taken so long to reply to this, but there's
a good possibility others in this ng have read these
books, but if I share some of my thoughts it may
start some discussions :) Sorry, none of the books
were by Caitlin R. Kiernan, but some were by writers
that recommend her work. Does this sort of make this
on topic? :)
Drawing Blood, by Poppy Z. Brite
I was expecting a horror story, but for the most part
I'd call this a love story about finding love in the
most unlikely times or places. I really didn't like the
ending, but I suppose that horror stories aren't as
a genre likely to have happy endings :)
When Trevor kills Zach it reminded me of that quote
from O.J. Simpson that if he had killed Nicole it would've
been because he loved her so much. I guess I just can't
see how you can truly kill the one you love and do it as
an act of love. Maybe as a mercy killing for someone
dying already of a slow painful illness, but when love is
newfound and so strong......I just didn't get it.
Some people, myself included, also have this deeply
rooted fear of turning into our parents as we grow
older. There's times now when I do something or say
something and cringe because a part of me steps back
and says "you sound just like Mom..." and there's that
shock of awareness when it's least expected. I just find
it unsettling that in the end Trevor follows in his father's
footsteps and kills Zach with the hammer.
Summer of Night, by Dan Simmons
For those folks over 35 or those of you who watched
"The Wonder Years" on tv for the sense of nostalgia it
evoked, then this book draw you in. It brings back
very much what it was like to be 12 in summertime in
the early 60's when innocence was something tangible
and worthy of savoring, like a warm summer day spent
with your friends. When the innocence is shattered by
the evil that lurks in the town and some of the kids are
brutally killed, there's a deeper sense of the wrongness
of it all - these were kids we liked, kids who really hadn't
had a chance yet to live and become something. When
Duane is killed I took it very personally - I wanted him
to live. I knew how much his death affected me, so I could
imagine how the others felt. In the end, there's a great deal
of truth to the fact that when kids lose their innocence, parents
often are the last to know. These kids battled evil in ways
that will scar them forever, and the adults really didn't know
anything was wrong. The adults always came up with some
rationalization for the deaths and the events. They never really
took a close look at their own kids - listened to their fears or
even really talked to them. I wondered at the end of the book
what would happen to those kids as they grew up.
The Callahan Touch, by Spider Robinson
Sometimes, after a really tough day or after a run of
horror stories has left you a bit feeling that the world
can be such a cruel place, we all need a trip to Callahans.
For those who are familiar with the series, Callahans is
more than a cozy bar where everyone knows your name.
It's a place you find when you need to find it, and it's full
of the most warm, loving, kind, funny, openminded folks
you'll ever want to call your friend. The whole gang's here
(including Mike Callahan himself) plus some interesting
newcomers who've dropped by, and while the bar now
has a new name and location, the warm fuzzies and
abundant laughter is still the same.
Children of the Night, by Dan Simmons
Only half-way through this one - but it seems to be a
different twist for Dan Simmons - very heavy on the
medical and technical jargon. Reminded me quite a
bit of a Robin Cook medical thriller. I loosely follow
what they're trying to explain as the medical basis for
vampires, but I think some of that tends to detract from
the plot. I will honestly admit I was several chapters into
the book before I realized that Father O'Rourke was Mike
O' Rourke from Summer of Night. I liked the fact that
we
got to see what happened to one of the kids from that book,
and it helped me understand some of what the character went
through and why and how he was willing to stand by and help
Kate when what she was claiming seemed so implausible.
I'll see what happens in the rest of the book. Fair warning-
if he kills off Mike in this book I'm going to hate it! Will let
you know what I think when I finish it.
And as for intimidating, no, I kinda like these long posts myself.
My morning ritual at work is first to check the ng's for new posts
while sipping my first cup of coffee. The longer (and more
interesting) the posts, the more I enjoy my coffee (as well as
postponing starting my work).
Well, hope that you got to drink a cup or two with this one :)
Pet peeve - I hate instant coffee. Can't see how people drink
that stuff. Part of the wake-up ritual is in the aroma of fresh
brewed coffee - you just don't get that with instant. All those
times I went camping as a kid and later as an adult, the smells
of fresh-perked coffee, bacon frying, and woodsmoke forever
intertwined in my memory as one of my favorite morning
wakeup smell-sensations. Throw in the underlying scents
of cool, clean mountain air and pine trees and it's just
perfection.
- Sandy
si...@earthlink.net
Sandy Atwood wrote:
>
>
>
Um... the whole thing about Drawing Blood... um, Zach lived, lived in
fact to narrarate another story, Vine of the Soul.
---Jena!!!
--
Visit the Homepage at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~sin4/SinA.html
Sandy Atwood
si...@earthlink.net wrote:
> Um... the whole thing about Drawing Blood... um, Zach lived, lived in
> fact to narrarate another story, Vine of the Soul.
>
But it sounded like such a brutal hammer attack,or maybe that's only what
I assumed after his
father's attack had been so brutal......
So was Zach even all that seriously injured?
How much later does Vine of the Soul take
place and are they still together?
- Sandy
Valerie
> Sorry, none of the books
>were by Caitlin R. Kiernan, but some were by writers
>that recommend her work. Does this sort of make this
>on topic? :)
I hope so, and maye be we get some slack in these quiet days before
the release of Silk.
>I just find it unsettling that in the end Trevor follows in his father's
>footsteps and kills Zach with the hammer.
>
Oops, mistake here, but point already made by Jena .
And then two Dan Simmons books!
It was Dan Simmons who restored on his own my faith in sf and horror
as a genre with the release of this two brilliant books "Carrion
Comfort" and "Hyperion" ( two books who could belong to my list of
"books-to have-with-you-when-you-are-stranded-on-a-deserted island")
> Summer of Night, by Dan Simmons
>
>For those folks over 35 or those of you who watched
>"The Wonder Years" on tv for the sense of nostalgia it
>evoked, then this book draw you in.
O.K., I am only getting close to 35 , but I liked watching "The
Wonder Years". And although I think that there is a very large
difference between growing up in the US than here in the Netherlands
my feeling to Summer of Night is that it is able to transfer a
universal feeling of what it feels to be young.
>Duane is killed I took it very personally - I wanted him
>to live. I knew how much his death affected me, so I could
>imagine how the others felt.
Duane's death shocked and affected me also deeply. Part of this can I
think be explained by the fact that these things normally never happen
in books or movies, especially with children.
I remember that Dan Simmons said at that time that Hollywood was
interested in making a movie of "Summer of Night" , but that they
wanted to make some "small changes" ( in other words let Duane live),
but of course he rejected this idea.
> I wondered at the end of the book
>what would happen to those kids as they grew up.
Yes, that would make for a great sequel.
>
> Children of the Night, by Dan Simmons
I was once lucky enough to be able to visit a convention in Rotterdam
in which he read the first couple of chapters of "Children of Night".
Ten to fifteen people where present. The room was small and cold. It
was in the middle of the winter and it was storming outside.
And then he started reading... and everybody was completely
mesmerized.
Somehow the dark mood in the beginning of the book (the arrival of a
group of experts in Bucharest just after the 1989 revolution and
their trip to the horrors in Timisoara) perfectly matched the mood of
those who where present.
When I read the book a year later I was somewhat dissappointed that
the rest couldn't live up to the high expectations that I had on the
basis of this reading (as you say, it becomes very medical later on)
but it is still a fascinating update of the Dracula legend.
> The Callahan Touch, by Spider Robinson
One of these books I always intended to read, but never did. I will
now.
>Well, hope that you got to drink a cup or two with this one :)
>Pet peeve - I hate instant coffee. Can't see how people drink
>that stuff.
Thanks, it made for a great cup or two indeed (there should be a law
against calling "instant coffee" coffee at all I think)
>Alll those
>times I went camping as a kid and later as an adult, the smells
>of fresh-perked coffee, bacon frying, and woodsmoke forever
>intertwined in my memory as one of my favorite morning
>wakeup smell-sensations. Throw in the underlying scents
>of cool, clean mountain air and pine trees and it's just
>perfection.
This sound like perfection to me!
Love,
Valerie
Valerie
>
>How much later does Vine of the Soul take
>place and are they still together?
>
> - Sandy
<spoiler space>
Zach and Trevor are alive and well and spending the last night of 1999
together in Amsterdam.
Quote: " .. and ended up here in the land of subsidised art, legalised
drugs, obscene amounts of money available for the asking to anybody
who knows a lot about computers, like me".
Is this the way many people look at Amsterdam and the Netherlands?
And, BTW, (soft)drugs are nor legalised over here, but merely
"tolerated" up to a certain point.
Valerie (working with computers, but, alas, not making an
obscene amount of money)
Valerie
On Sun, 03 May 1998 12:21:45 -0700, Wolf <wolf...@wxs.nl> wrote:
>I haven't been able to track that first issue with Deck The Halls down
>yet, but hopefully I'll get it through my store's backorder in the next
>few weeks. But has anyone else in here read it already?
Well, I did. I tought it was a fun little Christmas featuring story
Cain, Abel, Mervyn and some other "citizens" of the Dreaming.
And a small "guest appearance" (sort of) by my fave Dreaming
creature.
Very nice art by Duncan Fegredo ( also responsible with Peter Milligan
for the 3 -issue "Girl" miniseries, which I liked very much)
I just wish that they had removed these annoying ads in this
collection.
Valerie
MollyBloom
Sandy Atwood wrote:
> si...@earthlink.net wrote:
>
> > Um... the whole thing about Drawing Blood... um, Zach lived, lived in
> > fact to narrarate another story, Vine of the Soul.
> >
>
> But it sounded like such a brutal hammer attack,or maybe that's only what
> I assumed after his
> father's attack had been so brutal......
>
> So was Zach even all that seriously injured?
>
Uh, I don't knwo *what* you were reading, but the only thing that happens
between them is Trev punches Zach and then they fuck like rabbits. I don't
know how you ever came up with that plot twist, but I sure wasn't from
reading DB.
> How much later does Vine of the Soul take
> place and are they still together?
>
New Years' Eve 1999, and yes, still fucking like rabbits.
--
Faye
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"People call me a feminist when I differentiate myself from a doormat."
---Rebecca West. 1913
alien
MollyBloom wrote:
> Uh, I don't knwo *what* you were reading, but the only thing that
> happens
> between them is Trev punches Zach and then they fuck like rabbits. I
> don't
> know how you ever came up with that plot twist, but I sure wasn't from
>
> reading DB.
Yup...that 'bout sums it up...
Oh, I'd like to remind everyone of a newsgroup called
alt.books.poppy-z-brite :)
si...@earthlink.net
Sandy Atwood wrote:
>
> si...@earthlink.net wrote:
>
> > Um... the whole thing about Drawing Blood... um, Zach lived, lived in
> > fact to narrarate another story, Vine of the Soul.
> >
>
> But it sounded like such a brutal hammer attack,or maybe that's only what
> I assumed after his
> father's attack had been so brutal......
SPOILER ALERT FOR BOTH DRAWING BLOOD AND VINE OF THE SOUL:
Did you read the rest of the book? It came down to choices, the choice
to become a carbon of his father, or the choice to be himself and go on
to have a life with Zach. The moral of the story, I guess, is no matter
what your circumstances, the choice of what your life becomes is
ultimately your own.
>
> So was Zach even all that seriously injured?
Oh yeah, he was hurt pretty bad... covered in claw marks, big bite on
his shoulder, concussion... but he lives to get to a hospital...
>
> How much later does Vine of the Soul take
> place and are they still together?
They are still together 7 years later, on New Years Eve, 1999.