Finished the Rama series, but questions remain... [SPOILERS]
Nopel
I'll be giving away SPOILERS, so...
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Enough? I didn't count :)
Well, I've finally finished Rama Revealed, and though I found most of
the book very intriguing, I'm left with a bit of disappointment.
Throughout the book, several things were brought up, that seemed like
obvious foreshadowing, but were never picked up again. Some were
details, but some seemed really important, and still...
The biggest question I still have, is: who is Maria? Where did she come
from? When Nicole saw the painting with a human in it, and when Richard
heard a human baby's cry in the Octospider zoo, it seemed like the
octospiders were not as benign as they appeared. Later on, we get more
hints, like the memories of Maria's father and mother, given to Nicole
by the sessile. But in the end, nothing is explained.
In a related note, what exactly was the cylinder that was implanted in
Maria's mother? Nicole thinks it's a tag used to catalogue her in the
zoo, but we don't know for sure.
When the plague broke out in New Eden, Katie and Robert were both said
to have some sort of swelling as large as a fist on their bodies. It
sounded like that was an early symptom of the plague, but Robert
survived the plague, (he was put to sleep along with everyone else and
died months after he was reawakened), so that can't be it. We never
found out what it did to Katie either, since she shot herself.
Not a question, but a bit of my own Humble Opinion: :)
I found the explanation for why the Ramans were sending out spacecraft a
bit disappointing. All the talk about the Creator trying to create a
perfectly harmonious universe was just a bit too religious for me.
I just thought that whole sequence was a bit odd. Earlier in the series,
religious elements were always much more balanced: there was Michael
O'Toole, devout Roman Catholic, but there was also Richard, convinced
atheist (I especially liked the part just before Richard died, when he
said he wished he could believe, but that that would go against his
whole way of life).
At least the Eagle did admit that that was only the information he was
programmed to give to species that asked for their purpose. (And as a
setup for Nicole's "Is the meaning of life no longer 42?", the whole
explanation did work wonderfully :-) ).
Not to say that I didn't enjoy the book. I did. A lot of it was very,
very interesting. I was filled with just as much awe and wonder about
the octospider society as Nicole was. I continually wanted to learn more
about it, and couldn't put the book down. :)
I'd appreciate some comments, and, if possible, some answers to my
questions.
Thanks :)
Nopel
Douglas Green
Nopel wrote:
I found the series ended much too fast after plot development over the
first three books. Splitting the humans into privileged and un-privileged
spaceships, making it impossible for them to breed, seems very cold after
all the Ramans put the humans through. Killing Nicole's husband in prison
with the octospider is extremely ant-climactic after all they were through.
Allowing Nicole to die of a heart attack is a very big downer. The Ramans
almost appeared to be strapped for cash to not be able to help the humans
more. There were ulterior motives for almost everything they did, and you
kept expecting them to spill the plot, which they did not. I want to
re-read the series, but Rama Revealed is stopping me, because I already know
the ending is not what I feel it should be.
Doug
Vamsi Nath
"Nopel" <rwcs0...@SPAM.innet.be> wrote:
I agree that the Rama Series ended with a lot of unanswered questions.
If you think about it though, the series could go on and on without
end, not that I would mind. I too was disappointed with religious
explanation for the Raman's research and catalouging. I thought it
would have been more interesting if they had been a highly advanced
species originating from another galaxy. They could have been the
progenitors of all intelligent life in our galaxy, manipulating the
genetic code in an effort to create the perfect life-form. If any of
you have played 'Starcraft', you will see I got this idea from.
I don't necessarily think that the Ramans treated the humans coldly.
After all, didn't they save the humans and Octospiders from
destruction. Granted they didn't save the Avians and probably
interceded to prevent their research from being jeopardized, but they
did show some compassion on certain occasions. Specifically, allowing
Nicole to see Michael and Simone before she died. They also granted
Nicole access to the Knowledge Module. There was no doubt that the
Ramans were manipulating everyone, because they obviously had their
own agenda. People have pointed out that the Ramans could have
interceded earlier to save all the aliens aboard Rama III. When Nicole
asked the Eagle why they hadn't interceded earlier, he replied "You
can't have it both ways, Nicole. You can't have both free will and a
benevolent higher power who protects you from yourself." I think the
Eagle made a good point saying that we have to be responsible for our
own actions. He goes on to clarify this:
"We are not judgmental. We are scientists. We do not care if it is
your natural predilection to destroy yourself. We do care however, if
the likely future return from our project no longer justifies the
significant resources we have assigned."
The Ramans certainly didn't endorse the xenophobic behavior that lead
to the eventual segregation of the alien species aboard the Node.
Have any of you read 'Bright Messengers' by Gentry Lee? The story is
set in the Rama Universe and takes place after the Great Chaos
following the first encounter with the Rama spacecraft. I don't really
want to give away the story, but in the end a baby is born named Maria
and it has been hypothesized by some people that this baby is the same
one that appears on Rama III. There is some circumstantial evidence to
support this, but there are still a great deal of questions to be
answered. Gentry Lee is supposed to be releasing a sequel to 'Bright
Messengers' soon and hopefully this will tie together everything and
provide some closure for this great series of science fiction.
]
If anyone would like to discuss this further, please feel free to
email me at vn...@mindspring.com.
--Vamsi Nath
"The Event Horizon"
http://vnath.home.mindspring.com
JRCAtlanta
>Have any of you read 'Bright Messengers' by Gentry Lee? The story is
>set in the Rama Universe and takes place after the Great Chaos
>following the first encounter with the Rama spacecraft. I don't really
>want to give away the story, but in the end a baby is born named Maria
>and it has been hypothesized by some people that this baby is the same
>one that appears on Rama III. There is some circumstantial evidence to
>support this, but there are still a great deal of questions to be
>answered. Gentry Lee is supposed to be releasing a sequel to 'Bright
>Messengers' soon and hopefully this will tie together everything and
>provide some closure for this great series of science fiction.
Wasn't the sequel to Bright Messengers (called Double Full Moonlight) supposed
to be released in 1996? That's what it says in the inside the front cover of my
copy of Bright Messengers. I haven't read it yet because I want to read them
together but I'm not sure Gentry Lee is ever going to finish (or start) the
final book. Does anyonse have any solid information?
JC
Vamsi Nath
jrcat...@aol.com (JRCAtlanta) wrote:
>Wasn't the sequel to Bright Messengers (called Double Full Moonlight) supposed
>to be released in 1996? That's what it says in the inside the front cover of my
>copy of Bright Messengers. I haven't read it yet because I want to read them
>together but I'm not sure Gentry Lee is ever going to finish (or start) the
>final book. Does anyonse have any solid information?
>
>JC
From what I've heard, Lee is pretty close to finishing the book. I'm
not sure if there is any truth to this, but I'm optimistic. I saw an
estimated release date to be Spring 98', but time is running out. I
would definitely recommend holding off on reading 'Bright Messengers'
until you know that 'Double Full Moon Rising' is close to coming out.
Otherwise you'll be left with a lot of unanswered questions look many
other readers.
--Vamsi Nath
vn...@mindspring.com
Andrew M Jenner
> I'll be giving away SPOILERS, so...
One thing that puzzled me: the Rama spaceships were supposed to collect
samples of species without affecting the direction of the species'
progress. (Or affecting it as little as possible). But the first Rama
spaceship plunged Earth into the great chaos for the best part of 100
years! Now, maybe in the long term things go back to the way they were,
but the human race will always be scarred from that experience. Surely
with their fantastically advanced technology, the Ramans could have made a
far better job of it, not leaving any scars at all?
This is why I think the Eagle was lying (or misinformed) about the purpose
of Rama. That story may have been told so that Nicole heard what she
wanted to hear and died happy - but it was wrong! I think another sequel
is in order: the one in which the Ramans, in a fit of conscience (or
something) resurrect Nicole (perhaps whe wouldn't have wanted to die if
she had known the real truth) and tell her everything: about how the
Ramans weren't anything to do with creating the universe, but are
explorers (From another galaxy? A space with more than three usable
spatial dimensions?) with three limbs each, who have some even more
bizarre ulterior motive (Hey, Clarke's the one with the imagination - you
can't expect me to think of everything...). Of course, this final volume
would tie up all the other loose ends, and also be the best book Clarke
(or anyone) has ever written, possibly also the best book anyone's ever
written. ;-)
Andrew Jenner
Queens' College, Cambridge, UK
http://homepages.enterprise.net/berrypark/andrew
markf
> I'll be giving away SPOILERS, so...
By the way, I just finished reading Bright Messengers and I don't recommend the book. The book is again about humans being put into intergalactic space ships. There is very little science in the book, but a lot more sex. There is never an explanation as to who the aliens are and what is the purpose of the space ship. Part of the ship has no gravity. Yet there is a river flowing through that part. That does not seem to be scientifically sound. I was also annoyed by the lengthy telling of dreams with bizarre juxtapositions of book characters. These seem to be different aliens since their modus operandi is totally different from those in Rama. The baby Maria in Bright Messengers cannot be the same Maria that Nicole found. First, the book takes place PRIOR to the arrival of the first Rama space ship. Second, Maria's mother Beatrice dies soon after her birth while Nicole's Maria's mother dies just before Nicole finds her. I read reviews of Double Full Moon Night, the sequel to this book, and that Maria is already a young child in that book.
lukas....@gmail.com
From what I recall, Nicole asked the octospiders to save Katie and Robert from the plague. She was worried because Robert was already old enough to be affected by the disease (the plague was designed to kill older people and leave the young ones safe), and Katie health was compromised due to her lifestyle.
I assume those bumps were some kind of biological marking, or immunization/vaccine of some sort, to keep them safe from the effects of the plague.
lukas....@gmail.com
Personally, I did like the explanation about the creator.
It reminds me of what is done in data science, machine learning and optimization.
Genetic algorithms for instance work in a very similar way: a huge number of random solution are generated, those with the best fitness are selected. Those that are selected are slightly modified and used to produce the next generation.
In this sense, God in the Rama universe is the ultimate scientist (and keeping with the metaphor, a data scientist).
lukas....@gmail.com
Absolutely no idea...
It seems like the autho simply forgot about giving any explanation.
ygalmiz...@gmail.com
allenh...@gmail.com
a425couple
Did you just do a brand new post, on a very
long dead thread / subject?
Oh Well.
As for me, I very much enjoyed Clarke's original
"Rendezvous with Rama".
But the very first of the sequels got me so
disgusted that I quit reading it.
Phillip Helbig (undress to reply)
> As for me, I very much enjoyed Clarke's original
> "Rendezvous with Rama".
> But the very first of the sequels got me so
> disgusted that I quit reading it.
stuff. The style is too different. At least Clarke's sequels had
somewhat better characters (usually a weak point with Clarke), but
sometimes these were almost caricatures, and the rest of it not as good.
With Nightfall, expanded by Robert Silverberg, you can really see the
join.
a425couple
> In article <q39rb...@news4.newsguy.com>, a425couple
> <a425c...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>> As for me, I very much enjoyed Clarke's original
>> "Rendezvous with Rama".
>> But the very first of the sequels got me so
>> disgusted that I quit reading it.
>
> Same here. Similar situation with sequels/expanded versions of Asimov's
> stuff. The style is too different. At least Clarke's sequels had
> somewhat better characters (usually a weak point with Clarke), but
> sometimes these were almost caricatures, and the rest of it not as good.
OK, Clarke did not 'develop' a lot about his main
characters. They were decent people trying their
very best to do a good job for which they had been
trained for and employed to do.
IMHO, this is just like real life, and just as most
of us real people would be doing.
What I hated about the first Rama sequel was the
evilness of the people in the crew, and the total
implausibility of these bad people being put on
the crew for this most important mission EVER!
We are supposed to believe that the nations very top
level decision makers selected this group of petty,
jealous, power hungry, murderous, back stabbing,
disobedient jerks to get teamed up together.
AND THERE WAS NO CLEAR ORDER OF SUCCESSION!
No. Just NO! When the commander dies (is killed)
there is always a clear line of command.
makers
