Anne Rice FanFiction
Kelly Christopherson
I was a member of the "old listserv" and archive ring. I went overseas
for about a year and I have not been able to find anyone from the old
days... and I have no idea what happened to them. All I have been told
is "Never post a story with your real name attached, otherwise you may
end up like those poor souls in the Anne Rice fandom." Does anyone have
any true information about this situation. I truly miss Black Rose and
Black Emerald, to name a few. Thanks, you can reply to this or contact
me at khe...@yahoo.com.
-khellee (formerly Keli)
Ashe
Khellee,
Back in 2000, Anne decided that she did not allow fanfiction. What her
concern with it up to that point was, we don't know. She posted her
message on her website and then performed a witchunt on any and all
websites that dared post any form of fanfiction and had her lawyers
send nasty-grams to all the site owners to cease and desist under
threat of financial disembowelment. Thus the the SpecWriter Massacre
of 2000 took place. If there are any fanfiction sites still on the
'net, they are so well hidden that unless you have the addy you won't
find them. Good luck to you.
Take care,
Ashe
Rubystars
"Ashe" <din...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3c6e825a...@news.mindspring.com...
That was dumb of her.
It's true that most fan fictions are awful, but it also allows the authors
to show how much they love her characters and concepts.
It allows them to explore ideas, what ifs, etc.
If I wrote something that people liked enough to write fan fiction for, I'd
be flattered.
-Rubystars
Ashe
>> Khellee,
>> Back in 2000, Anne decided that she did not allow fanfiction. What her
>> concern with it up to that point was, we don't know. She posted her
>> message on her website and then performed a witchunt on any and all
>> websites that dared post any form of fanfiction and had her lawyers
>> send nasty-grams to all the site owners to cease and desist under
>> threat of financial disembowelment. Thus the the SpecWriter Massacre
>> of 2000 took place. If there are any fanfiction sites still on the
>> 'net, they are so well hidden that unless you have the addy you won't
>> find them. Good luck to you.
>> Take care,
>> Ashe
>
>That was dumb of her.
>
>It's true that most fan fictions are awful, but it also allows the authors
>to show how much they love her characters and concepts.
>
>It allows them to explore ideas, what ifs, etc.
>
>If I wrote something that people liked enough to write fan fiction for, I'd
>be flattered.
>
>-Rubystars
Rubystars,
Some authors see it as exactly that and they not only welcome
fanfiction, they encourage it. I believe Poppy Z. Brite is one of
them. But Anne doesn't, she views it as a legal and personal
infringment and is absolutely horrified that a lowly fan would ever
think of writing a story that would include one of her chacters.
You are right most fanfiction is pretty awful, but in the past I have
read some really outstanding work as well. It was a great time filler
between her books, and in the case of Memnoch the Drivel, some of it
made up for my disappointment. I don't remember who wrote it, but
someone did rewrite Memnoch and it was a hell of a lot more original
and interesting than the rehash of Goethe that Rice came up with.
Take care,
Ashe
>
Azzyboo
fanfiction. The characters in her books are not just characters to her. They
are real....they think, they breath and they speak to her. They are part of her
real world. ( if I had never read her books I would think that quite odd and
slightly insane....however her characters become a part of me when I read her
books as well....they become so real I could almost touch them...and I find
myself thinking about them and how they are long after I have read a book )
They are like friends to her. So you see it isn't just taking a character and
playing with it and creating new scenerios for it. To her it is messing with a
friend....sort of like defamation ( sp?) of character. It is as if someone is
spreading untrue rumors about a dear friend. I know it is hard..and it sucks
for those who like fanfics, but I have to agree with her. Her writing is
unlike any other author out there. Her charatcers become real...and I can
understand her feelings on this issue.
Azzy
Ben Bryant
<windst...@nospamhotmail.com> writes
>That was dumb of her.
>
>It's true that most fan fictions are awful, but it also allows the authors
>to show how much they love her characters and concepts.
>
>It allows them to explore ideas, what ifs, etc.
>
>If I wrote something that people liked enough to write fan fiction for, I'd
>be flattered.
>
>-Rubystars
>
>
Maybe she didn't want another George Lucas situation on her hands where
other people write about the characters and develop them in a certain
way and then when Anne comes to write more books she has to explain to
everyone why she is completely changing/disregarding what others have
wrote
--
Ben
Ashe
Ben,
I didn't mean to re-open a can of worms with this topic. It has been
discussed ad nausuem in the past. I think everyone is entitled to
their opinion and I respect that. The problem I had with the whole
situation is that is existed for a very long time before Rice put her
lawyer's foot down. I find it very difficult to believe that it took
her so long to find out about it and that this goes well beyond
artistic integrity or copywrite issues. Call me cynical.
Secondly, I don't know about the whole George Lucas situation, but
anybody who was a fan of facfiction knew that these were amateur works
and had no bearing whatsoever on the premises Rice developed for her
characters. They were never viewed as being interdependent. While it
is true that the best fanfiction writers kept religiously to the dogma
of Rice's universe (for instance, they wouldn't give the vampire
powers they didn't have in Rice's work to begin with or have them do
something that was inherently against the makeup of the characters),
there was no misunderstanding that a fanfiction author could influence
Rice's character or plot development, or that Rice would have to
disclaim anything. In most pieces of fanfiction is was even stated at
the very top of the story that is was a work of fanfiction and there
was not attempt to infringe on the author's right or to make a profit
from the works.
But as I said, I respect everyone's opinion on the topic, whether I
agree with it or not.
Take care,
Ashe
Amy, Jim & Charlie
they are her characters and they are quite personal to her. I might feel the
same way. Then again I might be flattered that someone was inspired by
something that I did. I don't know because it hasn't happened to me.
HOWEVER, everybody that has posted about this is posting THEIR OPINION. For
you to reply to every single person's opinion and tell them how illegal it
is seems to be desiring to start a flame war or pissing contest or something
along those lines. If someone or everybody was posting their fanfiction on
this newsgroup then by all means, go at them with the full force of the law.
NOBODY wrote anything about fanfiction being 'legal but just 'disliked' by
Anne Rice'.
It could be everybody's opinion that copyright infringement is a stupid law
too, you don't know that.
Opinions aren't illegal. Implementation of them might be, but unless my
email program is royally messed up, all I got in my newsgroup mailbox was a
bunch of opinions.
Amy
"animaux" <ani...@jiknnbvk.net> wrote in message
news:bt637ukvf5ktckknq...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 16 Feb 2002 16:07:40 GMT, din...@mindspring.com (Ashe) wrote:
>
>
> >Khellee,
> >Back in 2000, Anne decided that she did not allow fanfiction. What her
> >concern with it up to that point was, we don't know. She posted her
> >message on her website and then performed a witchunt on any and all
> >websites that dared post any form of fanfiction and had her lawyers
> >send nasty-grams to all the site owners to cease and desist under
> >threat of financial disembowelment. Thus the the SpecWriter Massacre
> >of 2000 took place. If there are any fanfiction sites still on the
> >'net, they are so well hidden that unless you have the addy you won't
> >find them. Good luck to you.
> >Take care,
> >Ashe
>
> Excuse me, but whether you like it or not, her characters are copyrighted,
as
> are all her books and words written in those books. Nobody has the right
to
> print fanfiction in any capacity. Her main reason was that what if one
day she,
> though never read a word of the fanfiction, came up with an idea which
closely
> resembled that of a fanfiction novel. Of course she would be accused of
> stealing the idea from the fanfic writer. Matter of fact, that happened.
>
> NObody has the right to use copyrighted ANYTHING without express, written
> permission of the author who owns those rights. Period.
Rubystars
"animaux" <ani...@jiknnbvk.net> wrote in message
news:bt637ukvf5ktckknq...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 16 Feb 2002 16:07:40 GMT, din...@mindspring.com (Ashe) wrote:
>
>
> >Back in 2000, Anne decided that she did not allow fanfiction. What her
> >concern with it up to that point was, we don't know. She posted her
> >message on her website and then performed a witchunt on any and all
> >websites that dared post any form of fanfiction and had her lawyers
> >send nasty-grams to all the site owners to cease and desist under
> >threat of financial disembowelment. Thus the the SpecWriter Massacre
> >of 2000 took place. If there are any fanfiction sites still on the
> >'net, they are so well hidden that unless you have the addy you won't
> >find them. Good luck to you.
> >Take care,
> >Ashe
>
as
> are all her books and words written in those books. Nobody has the right
to
> print fanfiction in any capacity. Her main reason was that what if one
day she,
> though never read a word of the fanfiction, came up with an idea which
closely
> resembled that of a fanfiction novel. Of course she would be accused of
> stealing the idea from the fanfic writer. Matter of fact, that happened.
>
> NObody has the right to use copyrighted ANYTHING without express, written
> permission of the author who owns those rights. Period.
I was reading Mega Man fan fictions for a while. (For those of you who don't
know, it's a video game series). There is a prominent fan fic author named
Red Draco (real name Nadia Eisner), and she has a character in her stories
that resembles a red dragon. In Mega Man X 4, there was an enemy that
resembled one of Red's Mechadrakes.
Was Magma Dragoon based off of Red Draco? Who knows?
If so, it's probably a credit to the author, not a rip off. If not, then Red
Draco probably showed her audience that she was really "in tune" with the
game series.
-Rubystars
Rubystars
> On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:56:42 GMT, din...@mindspring.com (Ashe) wrote:
>
>
> >Ben,
> >I didn't mean to re-open a can of worms with this topic. It has been
> >discussed ad nausuem in the past. I think everyone is entitled to
> >their opinion and I respect that. The problem I had with the whole
> >situation is that is existed for a very long time before Rice put her
> >lawyer's foot down. I find it very difficult to believe that it took
> >her so long to find out about it and that this goes well beyond
> >artistic integrity or copywrite issues. Call me cynical.
>
assistant,
> directly on the phone and brought it to their attention that fans were
> publishing fanfic without permission. I can't say that's what started the
ball
> rolling, but two weeks later Anne announced she does not allow fanfic to
be
> written, using her characters, or ideas.
>
>
>
> >Secondly, I don't know about the whole George Lucas situation, but
> >anybody who was a fan of facfiction knew that these were amateur works
> >and had no bearing whatsoever on the premises Rice developed for her
> >characters. They were never viewed as being interdependent. While it
> >is true that the best fanfiction writers kept religiously to the dogma
> >of Rice's universe (for instance, they wouldn't give the vampire
> >powers they didn't have in Rice's work to begin with or have them do
> >something that was inherently against the makeup of the characters),
> >there was no misunderstanding that a fanfiction author could influence
> >Rice's character or plot development, or that Rice would have to
> >disclaim anything. In most pieces of fanfiction is was even stated at
> >the very top of the story that is was a work of fanfiction and there
> >was not attempt to infringe on the author's right or to make a profit
> >from the works.
> >But as I said, I respect everyone's opinion on the topic, whether I
> >agree with it or not.
> >Take care,
> >Ashe
>
What
> part of that don't you get?
I don't think it's illegal if you don't charge money for it.
-Rubystars
Ashe
Amy, relax, don't sweat it! This is what Victoria does and this has
been her pattern for as long as I've been posting to the forum and
probably longer. She goes into lurk mode for months at a time and then
if someone expresses an opinion she doesn't like out the little
darling comes to start a flame war. I find it very humorous and have
grown to love her little rants. In fact, I'm surprised that this
thread went this long without her making her appearance.
Take care,
Ashe
>You know, I had nothing to say about this until now. I personally agree that
>they are her characters and they are quite personal to her. I might feel the
>same way. Then again I might be flattered that someone was inspired by
>something that I did. I don't know because it hasn't happened to me.
>
>HOWEVER, everybody that has posted about this is posting THEIR OPINION. For
>you to reply to every single person's opinion and tell them how illegal it
>is seems to be desiring to start a flame war or pissing contest or something
>along those lines. If someone or everybody was posting their fanfiction on
>this newsgroup then by all means, go at them with the full force of the law.
>NOBODY wrote anything about fanfiction being 'legal but just 'disliked' by
>Anne Rice'.
>
>It could be everybody's opinion that copyright infringement is a stupid law
>too, you don't know that.
>
>Opinions aren't illegal. Implementation of them might be, but unless my
>email program is royally messed up, all I got in my newsgroup mailbox was a
>bunch of opinions.
>
>Amy
>> >Khellee,
Ashe
>On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:56:42 GMT, din...@mindspring.com (Ashe) wrote:
>
>
>>Ben,
>>I didn't mean to re-open a can of worms with this topic. It has been
>>discussed ad nausuem in the past. I think everyone is entitled to
>>their opinion and I respect that. The problem I had with the whole
>>situation is that is existed for a very long time before Rice put her
>>lawyer's foot down. I find it very difficult to believe that it took
>>her so long to find out about it and that this goes well beyond
>>artistic integrity or copywrite issues. Call me cynical.
>
>Don't find it so difficult. I personally called Suzie, her then assistant,
>directly on the phone and brought it to their attention that fans were
>publishing fanfic without permission. I can't say that's what started the ball
>rolling, but two weeks later Anne announced she does not allow fanfic to be
>written, using her characters, or ideas.
Oh, aren't you the do-gooder.
>
>
>
>>Secondly, I don't know about the whole George Lucas situation, but
>>anybody who was a fan of facfiction knew that these were amateur works
>>and had no bearing whatsoever on the premises Rice developed for her
>>characters. They were never viewed as being interdependent. While it
>>is true that the best fanfiction writers kept religiously to the dogma
>>of Rice's universe (for instance, they wouldn't give the vampire
>>powers they didn't have in Rice's work to begin with or have them do
>>something that was inherently against the makeup of the characters),
>>there was no misunderstanding that a fanfiction author could influence
>>Rice's character or plot development, or that Rice would have to
>>disclaim anything. In most pieces of fanfiction is was even stated at
>>the very top of the story that is was a work of fanfiction and there
>>was not attempt to infringe on the author's right or to make a profit
>>from the works.
>>But as I said, I respect everyone's opinion on the topic, whether I
>>agree with it or not.
>>Take care,
>>Ashe
>
>Yeah, but regardless what the author of fanfiction said, it was ILLEGAL. What
>part of that don't you get?
Welcome back from lurkdom, sweetie, and at your normally charming self
I see. Well, let the fun begin.
Ashe
Amy, Jim & Charlie
I am on, which I might add, comes into MY MAILBOX, there is a troll who
viciously replies to everybody and anybody and it's common newsgroup
knowledge to killfile him. Looks like I'll have to killfile her too.
Sad....
Thanks for stopping me before I made a fool of myself and frustrated myself
more....
Amy
"Ashe" <din...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3c72f926....@news.mindspring.com...
Isis
> > permission of the author who owns those rights. Period.
Yeah, well....nobody is legally allowed to smoke pot or tear those
little tags off their pillow cases either, and we don't see too many
people following those rules. VC fanfic will always be around.
Always. And that's a fact. There is no way they can "police" the
entire net. Close one site down and another one will pop up in it's
place. If Anne was so against fanfic, maybe someone can explain to me
why links to the old archive were in several books written about her
and in full cooperation with her? And now, to suddenly be against it,
when the quality of her writing has taken such an obvious nose-dive
amounts to nothing more than feeling threatened and maybe a bit of an
over-sensitive ego. There is *alot* of good VC fanfic that kicks the
hell out of her latest work. She's also lost *alot* of fans over this
"ban", which was proven when I saw "Blood and Gold" at the bookstore
already in the "bargain bin". So if you feel like you've accomplished
some *big* thing by turning in your fellow fans for writing stories,
you haven't really accomplished a thing. It is still out there, and
always will be.
-Daizy
Jenny Horsburgh
us and make sure there are no illegal activities, right? Well, tell you
what, why don't you go back to lurkdom and stay there because I don' think
anybody on this newsgroup is pleased with your biggoted, one-track-minded
comments.
Take care on your way out.
Dreamspinner3
one-time published writer on paper so far), I understand this point of view
and also why Anne Rice doesn't allow published fan fiction on the Net. The
characters of the Vampire novels are her creations, they are the children of
her mind AND they are how she makes a living in life. It is her right to
protect her creations as she sees fit at anytime.
"animaux" <ani...@jiknnbvk.net> wrote in message
news:o1k77u846psb1j1vg...@4ax.com...
> No, I'm a published writer and designer and in order to protect copyright
I will
> go to the end of the earth. I thought Anne was pretty kind in how she
went
> about it. If it were me a lawsuit would have ensued if it didn't stop
> immediately. And it still goes on. Have fun.
Jenny Horsburgh
yet doesn't slag off everyone else in the process of "protecting" writers'
copyrights.
I personally have nothing against Anne's decision to ban fan-fic. I've
never read any, nor would I like to. But I don' think that Anne's latest
novels have taken a nosedive in quality.
jen
"Dreamspinner3" <dreams...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a5188o$3tj64$1...@ID-75132.news.dfncis.de...
Ashe
>On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:28:42 GMT, din...@mindspring.com (Ashe) wrote:
>
>
>>Oh, aren't you the do-gooder.
>
>No, I'm a published writer and designer and in order to protect copyright I will
>go to the end of the earth. I thought Anne was pretty kind in how she went
>about it. If it were me a lawsuit would have ensued if it didn't stop
>immediately. And it still goes on. Have fun.
It still goes on? Good!
>>Welcome back from lurkdom, sweetie, and at your normally charming self
>>I see. Well, let the fun begin.
>>Ashe
>
>This has not been a fun newsgroup for many years...sad to say.
And yet you are *still* here. Every time you whine about the sad
state of this ng, which invertibly happens in one of your rants, I get
a little chuckle.
You know, you should read back over this thread and see why some
people have reacted they way they have. As Amy stated we are
expressing opinions. You may not like my or anyone else's opinion, but
we are entitled to hold and express it, just as you have a right to
hold and express your opinions. However, as it always seems to happen,
you don't use a bit of tact or decorum in your presentation of your
opinion you come into a thread like a bull in a china shop. You don't
express, you demand that everyone see things your way and no other way
but your way. Personally I still think it is pretty f***ing stupid to
make a stink over some amateur works in which nobody is trying to make
a profit and that have little or no bearing on what is actually
published under a copywrite. That is my opinion. don't like it. Tough.
Ashe
Isis
> one-time published writer on paper so far), I understand this point of view
> and also why Anne Rice doesn't allow published fan fiction on the Net. The
> characters of the Vampire novels are her creations, they are the children of
> her mind AND they are how she makes a living in life. It is her right to
> protect her creations as she sees fit at anytime.
I am a published writer too, and I still don't understand it. I would
be flattered and I would also be very interested to read fanfic based
on my own characters. There are many authors who encourage it, and
some who even allow published speculative fiction, such as James
O'Barr. In fact, to do what she has done, you are cutting your own
throat. Alienating fans is never a good idea. And in this particular
fandom, I would say over 50% either used to write or read fanfic. I
agree that she has the right to do whatever she wants, but I don't
understand why at first, she was cool with it, and then all of the
sudden, It is FORBIDDEN. Whatever. Fanbases thrive off each other.
And the more involved they are in your work, the more popularity and
attention your writing will get. People are always going to go back
to the original. Many times, speculative fiction brings new fans in.
As I see it, if it gets your name and your stories out there, it is a
good thing. Aren't there more important things to worry about? Like
maybe filing a lawsuit against another restaurant owner or something?
I think she's lost it, and it shows in her writing. Painfully.
-Daizy
CinGee
the time it took to write. The fun thing is it gives fans a chance to take
characters in a direction in which they visualize, fantasize, imagine, take
your pick of words. Haven't you ever read something and had it to end, only
to wonder and possibly create in your mind where it goes next. I agree that
if fanfic were to be printed and sold, then there is a problem, however
otherwise it is an opinion of what that particular fan thinks as to the
future of the storyline. That doesn't mean its gospel.
--
"Remember!
Inside every old person is a young person wondering "What Happened?"
"animaux" <ani...@jiknnbvk.net> wrote in message
news:imbb7uci9c06qbihk...@4ax.com...
> It's copyright, not copywrite. Anyway, it is not my "opinion." Copyright
is a
> law. A very well founded set of laws which Anne Rice is completely within
her
> rights to express. It is not left up to your "opinion." It is fact. It
is not
> some dogma I make up to annoy you.
Malange duPre
theft of intellectual property UNLESS someone other than the author is
making money out of the characters. So, if someone writes a fic about
their Barbie dolls, (or in this case AR vampires, witches, etc etc)
unless it is published as a Zine, and there is actually money made,
your arse can't be fried.
Here's the source: from volume 17 of the Loyola of Los Angeles
Entertainment Law Journal, 1997 (17 Loy. L.A. Ent. L.J. 651)
Kisses and Acid,
Malange
"Fan fiction is a way of the culture repairing the damage done in a
system where contemporary myths are owned by corporations instead of
owned by the folk."
Henry Jenkins
Ashe
>I have read some really good fanfic and then I have seen some not worthy of
>the time it took to write. The fun thing is it gives fans a chance to take
>characters in a direction in which they visualize, fantasize, imagine, take
>your pick of words. Haven't you ever read something and had it to end, only
>to wonder and possibly create in your mind where it goes next. I agree that
>if fanfic were to be printed and sold, then there is a problem, however
>otherwise it is an opinion of what that particular fan thinks as to the
>future of the storyline. That doesn't mean its gospel.
>
Nope, Victoria never has because fanfiction is the eighth deadly sin.
Ashe
Ashe
his has not been a fun newsgroup for many years...sad to say.
>>
>>And yet you are *still* here. Every time you whine about the sad
>>state of this ng, which invertibly happens in one of your rants, I get
>>a little chuckle.
>>You know, you should read back over this thread and see why some
>>people have reacted they way they have. As Amy stated we are
>>expressing opinions. You may not like my or anyone else's opinion, but
>>we are entitled to hold and express it, just as you have a right to
>>hold and express your opinions. However, as it always seems to happen,
>>you don't use a bit of tact or decorum in your presentation of your
>>opinion you come into a thread like a bull in a china shop. You don't
>>express, you demand that everyone see things your way and no other way
>>but your way. Personally I still think it is pretty f***ing stupid to
>>make a stink over some amateur works in which nobody is trying to make
>>a profit and that have little or no bearing on what is actually
>>published under a copywrite. That is my opinion. don't like it. Tough.
>>Ashe
>
>It's copyright, not copywrite. Anyway, it is not my "opinion." Copyright is a
>law. A very well founded set of laws which Anne Rice is completely within her
>rights to express. It is not left up to your "opinion." It is fact. It is not
>some dogma I make up to annoy you.
Yes, copywrite is copywrite and Rice is in her rights. That is a fact
and I agree with you. However, what I stated above had nothing to do
with Rice's legal rights and whether or not they exist. Are you trying
to dodge the issues I was discussing? Humm, I think you were.
Be that as it may, if you re-read the above I was talking about
expressing an opinion and your inherent problem with people's opinions
that digress from your own. So let me say this one more time: I, and
everyone else on this forum have the right to hold and express an
opinion right, wrong, or otherwise. Everyone in this forum has the
right to express that opinion without being attacked, in pit bull
fashion, for expressing any opinion. Now, I ask you what part of that
don't you comprehend.
You should really re-read the thread objectively, Victoria, if you are
capable of such a thing and ask yourself if you would enjoy being
attacked in the manner in which you responded to some these people. In
fact, I just did, and I must say that your positively sheep-like
devotion to a virtual stranger truly shines through in the sheer
volume of your individual attacks, and also verges on a tone of
fanaticism. I'm not sure if I find this creepy or just hiliarious.
Let the fun and games continue.
Ashe
Ashe
Malange,
Thank you for this. My world just keeps getting rosier. I say let the
spec posting begin!!!
Again, my thanks,
Ashe
Jenny Horsburgh
Hehehe <evil laugh>
"Ashe" <din...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:3c77cc07....@news.mindspring.com...
NightRaven
> On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:28:42 GMT, din...@mindspring.com (Ashe) wrote:
>
>
> >Oh, aren't you the do-gooder.
>
I will
> go to the end of the earth. I thought Anne was pretty kind in how she
went
> about it. If it were me a lawsuit would have ensued if it didn't stop
> immediately. And it still goes on. Have fun.
>
I'm a writer too, unfortunately not a published one yet
(Haven't even finished The Work yet), but still...
This is the INTERNET! There is no such thing as
'published' on the web, in my mind the copyrightlaw
should not be applicable to the net at all.
Fan Fiction is just fans writing for themselves to have fun,
they make up their own stories using popular characters
that everyone knows. It has got NOTHING to do with
Anne Rice or her work, and this is just typical of these
so called 'modern' times with everyone sueing eachother
for every little nuisance.
Copyright laws were not made for this, and to use
them in order to shut down Fan Fiction is in my mind
abusing copyright.
Now, if someone actualy PUBLISHED these works,
that's a whole different ballgame, and would of course
not be good.
But as it is, Fan fiction is available for the ones that
want to read stories about their favourite characters
that they would never read otherwise, people write
them for fun and they harm none.
It saddens me to see that people can actualy care
about this.
- NightRaven
NightRaven
> Oy. Leave it to you to change the subject. We are talking about
copyright.
> Since you have nothing copyrighted, it wouldn't bother you to steal from
someone
> who does. BTW, the tag on the pillows is meant for the pillow
manufacturer, not
> the consumer. And pot is legal to smoke in Denmark. What does any of that
have
> to do with theft of intellectual property?
Oowhmp!
There is no such thing as 'theft of intellectual property'!
The only intellctual property that exists is inside each
persons head. Anything else is just material objects, and
totally irrelevant.
Anne has no more 'right' to Lestat or Mayfairs than any
of the Fan Fic writers, they are characters in a book
and does not exist. You can't steal something that does
not exist. Anne has not lost her characters if some
specwriter decides to use them in a story, they still
exist in her mind, noone has taken them from there.
Just because it is a law doesn't make it right.
BTW, pot is NOT legal to smoke in Denmark. I live in
Norway, so I should know.
(Maybe you are thinking about Kristiania, which is an
independent community inside Denmark, but not a part
of the country legaly. (Sort of like the Vatican of Pot))
- NightRaven
Malange duPre
> thumbscr...@yahoo.co.uk (Malange duPre) wrote:
>
> Malange,
> Thank you for this. My world just keeps getting rosier. I say let the
> spec posting begin!!!
> Again, my thanks,
> Ashe
Remember, just because there is a precedent, doesn't mean the wolves
will not be sent forth.
Malange
Isis
> their Barbie dolls, (or in this case AR vampires, witches, etc etc)
> unless it is published as a Zine, and there is actually money made,
> your arse can't be fried.
Exactly! And even if you were sued, judges tend to be very
unsympathetic
to rich, nitpicky plaintiffs wasting their time on something as
trivial as a Fanfic case for chrissakes. My guess is, most cases like
this would be thrown out. There is no money being made on the
product, so there's no money to win
in court.
-Daizy
Ashe
>
>
>BTW, pot is NOT legal to smoke in Denmark. I live in
>Norway, so I should know.
>(Maybe you are thinking about Kristiania, which is an
>independent community inside Denmark, but not a part
>of the country legaly. (Sort of like the Vatican of Pot))
>
>- NightRaven
NightRaven,
You are right about Kristiania. I heard about it and checked it out as
potential place for an interesting holiday. Pot is also very
tolerated, but not legal in places like Amsterdam and Vancouver. Both
have been sights of interesting holidays, hee hee.
Take care,
Ashe
Ashe
Or in this case do-gooders with sheep-like devotion to the wefare of
multimillionaires.
Take care,
Ashe
Jenny Horsburgh
"animaux" <ani...@jiknnbvk.net> wrote in message
news:fq3l7ug022mmkj8eo...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 24 Feb 2002 22:19:28 GMT, din...@mindspring.com (Ashe) wrote:
>
>
> >Or in this case do-gooders with sheep-like devotion to the wefare of
> >multimillionaires.
> >Take care,
> >Ashe
>
> I love the way you love to hate the rich. Me thinks you are a bit envious
of
> Anne's success. Anyone who would think the reason I notified Anne was
because
> I'm sheep-like has some pretty interesting work that needs to be done in
> therapy. This has nothing to do with money. Nothing.
>
> I am a fan of Anne Rice. Obviously, most people left in this dismally
boring
> newsgroup are not fans.
Isis
> > I am a fan of Anne Rice. Obviously, most people left in this dismally
> boring
> > newsgroup are not fans.
Just because we can be objective about her work does not make anyone
here less of a fan. Apparently you are under the impression that
someone died and made you Queen of the Anne Rice Fans. That we all
must live up to some standard you have set. We do not. And I find it
hard to believe that you are a published writer if you can honestly
say that "Merrick" and "The Vampire Armand" exhibit the same quality
of writing that IwtV did or even TWH. There is no editing, the
characters have important points of their pasts re-written because she
has been too lazy to research her own work, and the plots are vapid.
Especially when compared to the intricate and massive plot of QotD.
This woman is not God. She can write crap, as she keeps proving again
and again. Just because I love her old work doesn't mean I have to
love anything she puts out, especially if it is meaningless shit. I
am still a fan. So maybe you could step down off the high horse and
join us?
-Daizy
David Thomas
I'm not sure what you write can be called objective.
>Apparently you are under the impression that
>someone died and made you Queen of the Anne Rice Fans. That we all
>must live up to some standard you have set. We do not.
It's... Queen of the Damned Anne Rice Fans! Akasha, coming to make you live up
to her standards, ::takes on the horrid voice in the movie:: or die.
>that "Merrick" and "The Vampire Armand" exhibit the same quality
>of writing that IwtV did or even TWH.
Same quality. Not the same type of writing, but they were every bit as good as
it gets.
>There is no editing,
Really?
>the
>characters have important points of their pasts re-written
Enlighten me as to the details of this, please.
>the plots are vapid
Well, I suppose you expect Rice to live up to *your* standards, Queeny.
>This woman is not God.
In her books, she is.
>She can write crap, as she keeps proving again
>and again.
It's only a four letter word, but I didn't know that it appeared in her works
so often. I guess I'll have to go back and look for it, along with those
character rewrites.
>Just because I love her old work doesn't mean I have to
>love anything she puts out, especially if it is meaningless shit. I
>am still a fan.
I would question your fandom if you liked less than half her work.
>So maybe you could step down off the high horse and
>join us?
Irony...
Je veux m'enfuir, ne jamais dire au revoir; connaitre la verite, au lieu de me
demander pourquoi.
Je veux connaitre les reponses, ne plus de mensonges.
Je veux fermer la porte et ouvrir mon esprit; je vais m'en aller. - Linkin
Park, "Run Away"
- Vae
Annie
> >There is no editing,
>
> Really?
Yes, really. Anne does not allow editing any more than she allows
fanfiction.
Apparently, she is of the opinion that brilliant and successful
writers do not NEED editing as they are above mundane human foibles
such as typos and plot flaws.
In fact, if you read Merrick CLOSELY, you will find a minor character
who undergoes a miraculous name change for a chapter or two before she
wakes up to the mistake (or maybe not) and changes his name back to
the original.
That's just one example. I leave it to you to take the blinkers off
and find the others. :)
ML
Malange duPre
> vael...@aol.comUspamao (David Thomas) wrote in message news:<20020226005838...@mb-fs.aol.com>...
>
> > >There is no editing,
> >
> > Really?
>
> Yes, really. Anne does not allow editing any more than she allows
> fanfiction.
> Apparently, she is of the opinion that brilliant and successful
> writers do not NEED editing as they are above mundane human foibles
> such as typos and plot flaws.
Yes. Again. This is very very true. She does not permit editors.
And then there was the ANGEL TIME disaster, a book SO BAD the
publishers sent it back to her. Heh, We were spared that.
I honestly wish the woman would have stopped writing while she was
ahead. When Servant of the Bones came out, it was as if she had
developed a second personality who couldn't write.
The early books - IWTV, TVL, QotD, and Cry to Heaven - ESPECIALLY Cry
to Heaven - are beautifully written, evocative works. They were
written with love and from the heart. You can tell. Cry to Heaven is
so perfect, historically speaking. There was real research involved.
The fanfiction business is such a turnaround. Her publishers knew
about it and even had a link to the old archive. Hell, she even
"permitted" links to the ficwriter's sites when her web page first
went up.
Bugger it, this has turned into a rant instead of a reply, but with
this NG that's nothing really new.
Malange
Mekare
feel that way.
"Malange duPre" <thumbscr...@yahoo.co.uk> schreef in bericht
news:ad4684aa.02022...@posting.google.com...
Lavendermorn
>Maybe she didn't want another George Lucas situation on her hands where
>other people write about the characters and develop them in a certain
>way and then when Anne comes to write more books she has to explain to
>everyone why she is completely changing/disregarding what others have
>wrote
>
>
I seriously doubt if this was the reason she come down so hard on the
ficwriters. As someone mentioned before, her personality did a flipflop.
Comparing George Lucas to AR is pretty good. Gave me a smile. After all GL
created Jar Jar Binks... and Anne created merWRECK.
Em
Azzyboo
Azzy
lynze
Servant of the Bones is an under appreciated work. I think some of
her sloppiness occured when she was doing the two book a year deal-too
much pressure. Even though I always like her work. I think sometimes
she serves the green God a little too much with the Lestat license
plates and barbie dolls. I mean seriously I like money but how much do
you really need?
Ashe
>
>I love the way you love to hate the rich. Me thinks you are a bit envious of
>Anne's success. Anyone who would think the reason I notified Anne was because
>I'm sheep-like has some pretty interesting work that needs to be done in
>therapy. This has nothing to do with money. Nothing.
>
>I am a fan of Anne Rice. Obviously, most people left in this dismally boring
>newsgroup are not fans.
Humm, jealous of Rice's success? Let me think about that. Honesty, I
might be jealous if she was still putting out the work she used to be
capable of, but now...hardly. Personally, the crap I've seen this
woman spew lately I'd be ashamed to put my name to if I were her.
(Laughing) I mean, a typo is one thing...changing a character's name
in mid-story is quite another. How could a responsible author miss
something like that. Oh yes, she is above using an editor.
I don't hate the rich. Personally, I don't really have any opinions
about the rich as they are just as capable of positive or negative
actions as the rest of us.
Ashe
Isis
> it gets.
Okay then, give me examples. And explain why and how more recent
books are comparable to the quality of the first four books. You want
to debate then you better back yourself up.
> >There is no editing,
>
> Really?
Yes, really. Hence the the other posts saying "There is no editing."
Of course, how anyone could not see that for themselves when reading
some of this drivel, I don't know.
> Enlighten me as to the details of this, please.
How about the fact that Pandora is Greek in QotD and then suddenly and
inexplicably in "Pandora" she is Roman. Or perhaps the fact that
Lestat is invincible, but Maharet can apparently bind him in chains.
Memnoch the Devil is an entire book of character flaws. Two of which
were Mael and Armand sacrificing themselves to the sun over Veronica's
Veil, when Armand believed in nothing and Mael was a Pagan.
>
> >the plots are vapid
>
> Well, I suppose you expect Rice to live up to *your* standards, Queeny.
Um, isn't the whole reason someone becomes a writer the hope that
someone will want to read it? And no, they aren't my standards.
These are standards she set for herself years ago when she first wrote
IWTV. And I am not the only one if you'll look around a little bit.
In fact, she is selling off property right now to keep her head above
water. So it appears that my opinion or "standards" seem to be in the
majority.
>
> >This woman is not God.
>
> In her books, she is.
In her own mind she is. And, apparently, to some of her more
sheeplike fans she is.
> I would question your fandom if you liked less than half her work.
I question your intelligence if you think she is living up to the
precedent she set for herself. I judge "fandom" by amount of money
spent. Alot of my money has gone to this woman and I have the first
editions to prove it. And yes, I get pissed if I have forked out $25
on a hardcover novel that isn't worth the paper it's printed on.
>
> >So maybe you could step down off the high horse and
> >join us?
>
> Irony...
Which could also apply to you answering a post that was not directed
at you, but to each his own.
-Daizy
Ashe
>There is no editing,
>> >
>> > Really?
>>
>> Yes, really. Anne does not allow editing any more than she allows
>> fanfiction.
>> Apparently, she is of the opinion that brilliant and successful
>> writers do not NEED editing as they are above mundane human foibles
>> such as typos and plot flaws.
>
>Yes. Again. This is very very true. She does not permit editors.
>
>And then there was the ANGEL TIME disaster, a book SO BAD the
>publishers sent it back to her. Heh, We were spared that.
Really? I thought Angel Time was the thing that was going to be the
tv series I didn't know it was supposed to be a book.
Take care,
Ashe
Ashe
>I love the way you love to hate the rich. Me thinks you are a bit envious of
>Anne's success. Anyone who would think the reason I notified Anne was because
>I'm sheep-like has some pretty interesting work that needs to be done in
>therapy. This has nothing to do with money. Nothing.
Oh, and we are playing the "needed therapy" card, are we. I'll just
take that as a sign that you don't really have anything more
interesting to say about the matter, and refuse to challenge me on the
real issue of thread. I'll just consider you in check-mate, game over,
but you should be able to start all over again with Marcus. I'll be
watching and laughing.
Ashe
Isis
To me? And what am I to you since this is the first thread I've ever
replied to on this newsgroup?
We are talking about
> copyright.
> > Since you have nothing copyrighted, it wouldn't bother you to steal from
> someone
> > who does.
Excuse me but I absolutely DO have something copyrighted. In fact
many things as I own my own company. Let's not put the plow before
the horse with our presumption, okay?
>And pot is legal to smoke in Denmark.
Well, as someone who lives in Denmark pointed out, no it's not.
What does any of that
> have
> > to do with theft of intellectual property?
This is called a comparison. The threat of being sued successfully
for copyright infringement on the net is taken about as seriously as
being arrested for marijuana. Is the threat there? Sure. Does it
cause people to stop smoking pot? No. Just let me know next time you
need me to spell things out for you in a more simplistic manner.
To NightRaven -
> BTW, pot is NOT legal to smoke in Denmark. I live in
> Norway, so I should know.
I noticed she didn't reply to this post as you proved her wrong. But
BEWARE! Don't spell anything incorrectly! She is apparently exempt
from human error, but lives to point it out in others. *snort*
Daizy
Robyn
your logic is ridiculous. there's good fiction, and bad fiction. just
because a book is fictitious it doesn't earn itself the right to be badly
written and have an inconsistent plot!
> I don't look for the same things you look for. I have learned to suspend
> disbelief when I read fiction. There's no such thing as vampires. So, by
your
> standard, Anne shouldn't write about vampires because they don't exist.
David Thomas
>who undergoes a miraculous name change for a chapter or two before she
>wakes up to the mistake (or maybe not) and changes his name back to
>the original.
I really don't want to (translation: don't have time to) read Merrick over
carefully. Can you please just blurt it out?
David Thomas
>books are comparable to the quality of the first four books. You want
>to debate then you better back yourself up.
In the world of science, I would laugh at you. Hell, I'll do it anyways.
You're the one making the literary claim. You back your claim up, then I'll
argue.
>Yes, really. Hence the the other posts saying "There is no editing."
>Of course, how anyone could not see that for themselves when reading
>some of this drivel, I don't know.
And you claim to be a fan?
>How about the fact that Pandora is Greek in QotD and then suddenly and
>inexplicably in "Pandora" she is Roman.
I'll have to look this up. I don't have a copy of QotD handy.
>Or perhaps the fact that
>Lestat is invincible, but Maharet can apparently bind him in chains.
There's something contradictory about that?
>Two of which
>were Mael and Armand sacrificing themselves to the sun over Veronica's
>Veil, when Armand believed in nothing and Mael was a Pagan.
Armand believes nothing, eh? Ack. Have you read nothing? Armand is a
tortured believer. He believes, no matter how powerfully the lack of meaning
seems. Either you've overanalyzed or not analyzed enough. Which, I know not.
>Um, isn't the whole reason someone becomes a writer the hope that
>someone will want to read it?
Not necessarily. I write to express myself. If someone happens to want to
read it, then that's quite nice. I somewhat wonder what motivations Anne has.
That is, really has.
>And no, they aren't my standards.
>These are standards she set for herself years ago when she first wrote
>IWTV. And I am not the only one if you'll look around a little bit.
>In fact, she is selling off property right now to keep her head above
>water. So it appears that my opinion or "standards" seem to be in the
>majority.
None of this matters. You don't like her new writing. That's all well and
good. Still doesn't give you a right to libel her.
>In her own mind she is. And, apparently, to some of her more
>sheeplike fans she is.
Bitter cynicism. Find a self-help book.
>I question your intelligence if you think she is living up to the
>precedent she set for herself.
I question your taste if you think she hasn't.
>I judge "fandom" by amount of money
>spent. Alot of my money has gone to this woman and I have the first
>editions to prove it. And yes, I get pissed if I have forked out $25
>on a hardcover novel that isn't worth the paper it's printed on.
Not her fault, or mine, if you've done some unwise spending.
>Which could also apply to you answering a post that was not directed
>at you, but to each his own.
So I'm rude and butt in? Oh well.
Mekare
"Ashe" <din...@mindspring.com> schreef in bericht
news:3c7c3a5d...@news.mindspring.com...
What character are you talking about?
Annie
> What character are you talking about?
Merrick, the book. The character, the guy the died in the jungle.
I can't remember his name. Not that it matters, he had two of them at
one point! LOL
ML
Annie
>that fan had the balls to scream and threaten law suit because Anne stole his
>idea. What balls. THAT'S why.
Ummm...I'll think you'll find that this happened to Mercedes Lackey NOT Anne Rice.
ML
Jenny Horsburgh
aomeone spends so much money for a hardback, they'd be pissed off to find
studip mistakes in it. It shows the book has not been written with care.
This is a newsgroup, it doesn't matter if we make spelling errors. I know
you'd never make any, because you're just perfect, aren't you.
"animaux" <ani...@jiknnbvk.net> wrote in message
news:nkrp7ukrklkc461bg...@4ax.com...
> On 26 Feb 2002 19:41:53 -0800, daizy_de...@hotmail.com (Isis) wrote:
>
>
> >I noticed she didn't reply to this post as you proved her wrong. But
> >BEWARE! Don't spell anything incorrectly! She is apparently exempt
> >from human error, but lives to point it out in others. *snort*
> >
> >Daizy
>
> I was doing to you what is being done to Anne. You didn't like it,
obviously.
Isis
> You're the one making the literary claim. You back your claim up, then I'll
> argue.
No, you made the claim that the more recent novels are just as good as
the earlier ones. Support your statement. I have given many
instances as to why I feel they fall short. Bad characterization,
screwed up continuity, and no editing. And now it's your turn. So
stop laughing and start typing.
> And you claim to be a fan?
I am a fan. I love the the first four novels in the VC's. I enjoyed
TWH and Lasher, the Beauty books, CTH, Belinda, and Exit to Eden.
When someone who has written novels like these and then becomes so
obviously lazy, sloppy, and greedy it is painful. Because you see the
transition, and it is exasperating when a writer you used to love is
no longer taking the time to write good caliber work. I have been
reading Anne's work for over ten years now. Just because I can
recognize sloppy work for what it is does not diminish the impact or
enjoyment I used to receive from her work.
> I'll have to look this up. I don't have a copy of QotD handy.
"And you call yourself a fan?!" =P The first mention of it is in
TVL. Do you have that book? TVL: Pg. 403 "I was madly in love with a
beautiful brown-haired GREEK courtesan named Pandora," Now, jump to
the novel "Pandora" and suddenly she is Roman, the daughter of a
prominent senator, and Pandora isn't even her real name. ?????
Sloppy.
> There's something contradictory about that?
Yes. Lestat had drunk from Akasha on more than one occasion. The sun
couldn't even kill him. Yet Maharet can bind him? How? Why?
>
> Armand believes nothing, eh? Ack. Have you read nothing? Armand is a
> tortured believer. He believes, no matter how powerfully the lack of meaning
> seems.
And in which book did you find this? And if you say TVA you're
proving me right. IWTV: Pg. 215 "Is this the only power that
obsesses you, so that you must make us gods and devils yourself when
the only power that exists is inside ourselves? How could you believe
in these old fantastical lies, these myths, these emblems of the
supernatural?"
Hmmm...Fantastical lies and myths. Doesn't sound to much like a
devout follower of Christ to me.
> Not necessarily. I write to express myself. If someone happens to want to
> read it, then that's quite nice. I somewhat wonder what motivations Anne has.
I think Anne is past the point of "Oh I think I'll just write in my
journal today and hope someone reads it.", don't you? Her motivation
now is greed.
> None of this matters. You don't like her new writing. That's all well and
> good. Still doesn't give you a right to libel her.
I don't. I simply enjoy reading it because it's better than anything
she has written in ages. And noone else is libelling her either.
There are very few laws for publishing on the net. The internet is an
exchange of information. See the rest of this thread about laws etc.
It is a gray area.
> Bitter cynicism. Find a self-help book.
For cynicism? I wasn't aware that was a problem that required a
self-help book.
> I question your taste if you think she hasn't.
And we're still waiting for you to back up these statements......
> Not her fault, or mine, if you've done some unwise spending.
When a writer disappoints and loses their fans, yes it is their fault.
And anyone who says they haven't bought a book by an author based on
their past achievements is lying. Especially in a series, like the
VC's. The fact that I buy a book with, what I don't think, are high
expectations and am then disappointed is not my fault. Especially
when it is due to trivial things like incontinuity and bad
characterization. I mean, really. These are things an author should
know like the back of their hand if they created these characters.
-Daizy
Mekare
"Isis" <daizy_de...@hotmail.com> schreef in bericht
news:6e2ad1c7.02022...@posting.google.com...
> > In the world of science, I would laugh at you. Hell, I'll do it
anyways.
> > You're the one making the literary claim. You back your claim up, then
I'll
> > argue.
> "And you call yourself a fan?!" =P The first mention of it is in
> TVL. Do you have that book? TVL: Pg. 403 "I was madly in love with a
> beautiful brown-haired GREEK courtesan named Pandora," Now, jump to
> the novel "Pandora" and suddenly she is Roman, the daughter of a
> prominent senator, and Pandora isn't even her real name. ?????
> Sloppy.
>
Pandora wanted no links to her real family, neighter does Marius. Pandora
pretended to be Greek, why should Marius hold that picture for Lestat - who
is only a bratt? It is up to Pandora to tell her real story... I found this
logical and not at all sloppy.
> Yes. Lestat had drunk from Akasha on more than one occasion. The sun
> couldn't even kill him. Yet Maharet can bind him? How? Why?
How: with her hair, like she bound Thorne. Why: he was out of controle,
might have done harmful things to either himself and maybe the vampire rase.
> > Armand believes nothing, eh? Ack. Have you read nothing? Armand is a
> > tortured believer. He believes, no matter how powerfully the lack of
meaning
> > seems.
>
> And in which book did you find this? And if you say TVA you're
> proving me right. IWTV: Pg. 215 "Is this the only power that
> obsesses you, so that you must make us gods and devils yourself when
> the only power that exists is inside ourselves? How could you believe
> in these old fantastical lies, these myths, these emblems of the
> supernatural?"
> Hmmm...Fantastical lies and myths. Doesn't sound to much like a
> devout follower of Christ to me.
TVA: Pg 6 "to tell of what had happend , the legende of Veronica's Veil and
the Face of Our Lord emblazoned upon it, and the morning when I had given up
my soul with such perfect happiness. What a fable it was."
At one point he did believe and I think he still does, he keeps denying it
to himself and then giving in. He doesn't believe but he keeps talking about
things like "God's Creation" and on page 299 is the part about him seeing
the Veil which is followed by him going into the sun. That is what I call a
tortured kind of believe. He believes and then he doesn't and then he does
and then he doesn't etc.
Jenny Horsburgh
directed at just about everyone in the newsgroup, you feel yourself to be
above everyone else. But then, I think the reason why you pick on people's
stupid typing mistakes is because you have nothing better so say. Now, note
this is my opinion, seeing as you tend to have a problem with people having
their opinions.
Oh, and by the way, I know the layout of my local library like to back of my
hand, and I'm proud of it. I know what Anne Rice books they have and which
one's they haven't got. I've borrowed countless books from the library and
I don't need you to make out like I'm stupid becaue I do know how to make
good use of literary resources. However, I believe that people paying for
books at a high price deserve to get their money's worth. Books with
mistakes in them are kind of insulting of Anne Rice's status, don't you
think? She is a respected writer. It's kind of ridiculous that she cant be
bothered to do a simple thing as to make sure there are no silly mistales in
her works before printing. Is that not a fair argument?
"animaux" <ani...@jiknnbvk.net> wrote in message
news:v5mq7u0169tvm86o1...@4ax.com...
> How would you know I'm perfect? Ever meet me? I have no idea who you
are. Do
> you edit your own posts? Wow, if you do.
>
> By the way, there is this fabulous institution called the Public Library.
In my
> town, I pay 327 dollars a year in taxes to support that library so people
can
> walk in and borrow books for free. You pay taxes for the library too.
>
> You have no reason to spend a dime on any book. Borrow it free.
Isis
> pretended to be Greek, why should Marius hold that picture for Lestat - who
> is only a bratt? It is up to Pandora to tell her real story... I found this
> logical and not at all sloppy.
This seems all very contrived to me. As in "Oh, I started writing
this and I forgot Pandora is Greek, so I'll make up this half-assed
reason for the mistake." Besides, Pandora was no longer in Greece,
and if Lestat had really wanted to find her or her family he could
have down so easily through telepathy. It is just this kind of
silliness and lack of planning that irritates me about the more recent
books.
> How: with her hair, like she bound Thorne. Why: he was out of controle,
> might have done harmful things to either himself and maybe the vampire rase.
>
WHY can she bind him with her hair? She is not the Queen, Mekare is.
>
> At one point he did believe and I think he still does, he keeps denying it
> to himself and then giving in. He doesn't believe but he keeps talking about
> things like "God's Creation" and on page 299 is the part about him seeing
> the Veil which is followed by him going into the sun. That is what I call a
> tortured kind of believe. He believes and then he doesn't and then he does
> and then he doesn't etc.
But this is my point. This tortured belief was never in evidence
until the later books. He was adamant in the earlier novels that he
believed in nothing. It is another situation of "I better get out of
this." She killed off Armand in Memnoch and then everyone was pissed,
so not only did she have to resurrect him, but she had to give a
reasonable explanation as to why he would do such a thing. Hence, the
whole boring novel TVA.
-Daizy
Lane
"Isis" <daizy_de...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6e2ad1c7.02022...@posting.google.com...
I would agree to that TVA -was- a boring novel.. completely ruined his
character for me.. but I suppose that's like someone said here a couple days
ago - something like if you can endure a characters faults and still like
them then you really do like them, or understand maybe .. but feck it, it's
just too much whiney crap for me... wah wah wah..
Lane
TomGim
While I understand that you can still be a fan and disapprove of some
of the material, lately many people are beginning to sound more like
King's Annie Wilkes. Why are people slamming this woman's work ... ?
I mean I also felt a change in her writing style after QOTD .. but ..
if we consider the past motivation for the first installment of the
chronicles namely, the passing of her daughter Michelle, I believe
that vulnerability and very powerful emotions definately contributed
to the inspiration for the creation of IWTV, but she's not an
emotional production line and sooner or later she had to progress
beyond that to a new period of her life both as a person and an
author. I still respect her work and her decision to continue the
Vampire Chronicles which I believe was as much motivated by a genuine
desire to give to hungry audiences like us as much as any supposed
literary and financial acclaim.
David Thomas
>the earlier ones. Support your statement. I have given many
>instances as to why I feel they fall short. Bad characterization,
>screwed up continuity, and no editing. And now it's your turn. So
>stop laughing and start typing.
No no no no no...
Allow me to explain it to you...
You said the novels were getting bad... You say what you think is bad
about them, but you don't provide examples. You only make claims. If you only
say what you think is wrong, without providing examples (quotes, page numbers,
et cetera), then you're providing an opinion. Until you back that up, I could
merely say 'No, her characterization was flawless, her continuity divine, and
her need of editing zero,' and that would refute your 'argument' perfectly,
since it provides the same evidence that yours does.
Only when you have provided a real argument will I argue. I cannot
determine the validity of your argument until you provide one.
>I am a fan. I love the the first four novels in the VC's. I enjoyed
>TWH and Lasher, the Beauty books, CTH, Belinda, and Exit to Eden.
I believe you.
>When someone who has written novels like these and then becomes so
>obviously lazy, sloppy, and greedy it is painful. Because you see the
>transition, and it is exasperating when a writer you used to love is
>no longer taking the time to write good caliber work. I have been
>reading Anne's work for over ten years now. Just because I can
>recognize sloppy work for what it is does not diminish the impact or
>enjoyment I used to receive from her work.
...Riiight...
>The first mention of it is in
>TVL. Do you have that book? TVL: Pg. 403 "I was madly in love with a
>beautiful brown-haired GREEK courtesan named Pandora,"
I read in my copy of TVL from page 395 (Marius's Story - 5 "It happened
my fortieth year...") to page 415 (begin 7 "Do not be afraid, Marius. I wait
for you. Take the light and come to me.")... I even went all the way back to
Page 375 (begin 3 "I came into a brightly illuminated...") I cannot in any of
this find what you say, "I was madly in love with a beautiful brown-haired
GREEK courtesan named Pandora," nor any mention of Pandora. Perhaps it's not
in my edition? I have... let's see... ISBN 0-345-31386-0, First Ballantine
Books Edition: Oct 1986. I wonder if you have an earlier edition and it was...
forgive me, edited out. I would find that kind of ironic. Anyhow...
>Now, jump to
>the novel "Pandora" and suddenly she is Roman, the daughter of a
>prominent senator, and Pandora isn't even her real name. ?????
>Sloppy.
Hmm... let's see... ::looks:: I have, BTW, ISBN 0-345-42238-4, First
Ballantine Books Edition: 1999... now, that aside...
If I recall correctly, Pandora moved to Antioch after the death of her
family. She was supposed to marry a Greek, but instead took up an independant
life. She there met Marius once more, and at the time functioned as an
independant lady--something which I believe one could very much call the
capacity of a 'courtesan.'
>Yes. Lestat had drunk from Akasha on more than one occasion. The sun
>couldn't even kill him. Yet Maharet can bind him? How? Why?
Well, Maharet is old, powerful. Even the infusion of Akasha's powerful
blood could not provide Lestat with power enough to break Maharet's bonds.
Also, considering that they were of her hair and gold, I bet there was some
untold magic in the mix. Also, many times the bonds were coupled in prose with
her blood--powerful and old, the two go hand in hand, her blood is surely more
powerful than the mixture that now flows in Lestat. Why is a whole other
question, and I didn't get that myself... it makes me curious though. I bet
it was a plant.
>IWTV: Pg. 215 "Is this the only power that
>obsesses you, so that you must make us gods and devils yourself when
>the only power that exists is inside ourselves? How could you believe
>in these old fantastical lies, these myths, these emblems of the
>supernatural?"
You speak as if logic dictates all and experience matters for naught.
Have you ever dealt with the psychology of an atheist? An agnostic?
Very few of them believe in nothing. Indeed, most of those who one would
characterize as a devout Christian are those most eligible to be non-believers.
Armand is just a hypocrite, somewhat.
>I think Anne is past the point of "Oh I think I'll just write in my
>journal today and hope someone reads it.", don't you? Her motivation
>now is greed.
Okay, so I'll be an ass... So friggin' what? America is great because
one can come here and make the almighty dollar. Money = power, and corruption
is the new politics. Perhaps we should focus on the many corporations that are
butt-fucking consumers? Or maybe we should look at the fact that we can do it
ourselves and be rich. Is it evil? Maybe.
>It is a gray area.
I'm a firm believer in the spectrum of circumstance in any matter, but
this argument is rarely used well.
>For cynicism? I wasn't aware that was a problem that required a
>self-help book.
It's unhealthy.
>And we're still waiting for you to back up these statements......
I've provided as much proof as you have. Besides, my statement was not
that your taste is poor, but rather that it would fall under those things in my
scrutiny if you believe Anne hasn't lived up to her standards.
>When a writer disappoints and loses their fans, yes it is their fault.
> And anyone who says they haven't bought a book by an author based on
>their past achievements is lying. Especially in a series, like the
>VC's. The fact that I buy a book with, what I don't think, are high
>expectations and am then disappointed is not my fault. Especially
>when it is due to trivial things like incontinuity and bad
>characterization. I mean, really. These are things an author should
>know like the back of their hand if they created these characters.
I'm going off to eat.
David Thomas
Poor you.
>It is just this kind of
>silliness and lack of planning that irritates me about the more recent
>books.
No silliness here. Rice has done a great job. She writes gradually, coming up
with characters and stories as she goes along, and I haven't seen any
continuity errors yet. From what you keep writing it seems like you expect
completely static characters who never change. After all, if Pandora was said
to be Greek in TVL, she MUST be Greek throughout! ::rolls eyes::
>WHY can she bind him with her hair? She is not the Queen, Mekare is.
Old, powerful, 'nuff said.
>But this is my point. This tortured belief was never in evidence
>until the later books.
The earlier books only tell of one part of his life. They only account for his
'Bridge of Sighs,' until QotD.
>She killed off Armand in Memnoch and then everyone was pissed,
>so not only did she have to resurrect him, but she had to give a
>reasonable explanation as to why he would do such a thing. Hence, the
>whole boring novel TVA.
LMAO... have you never written anything of such breadth as Rice's works?
David Thomas
>objective things. To prove something is as good to me as something that you
>think stinks is not as easy to prove.
Daizy made some rather objective claims, such as:
1) Anne Rice's characterization has gotten worse.
2) AR's plots are not continuous.
3) It's just gotten bad.
These are things that can be backed up, proven. It's called literary analysis.
If I do it every day in AP English, she can do some and back up her claims.
>If you were a fan of Anne Rice you would know that her near death health
>problems have changed her. She will never be the same. Never. Can't you
>cut
>her a break?
Excuses... excuses... If Rice's work had dropped in quality, it dropped in
quality. No matter her mental condition. What remains to be seen is whether
or not it has dropped in quality.
Mekare
"David Thomas" <vael...@aol.comUspamao> schreef in bericht
news:20020228233403...@mb-fe.aol.com...
>
> >Yes. Lestat had drunk from Akasha on more than one occasion. The sun
> >couldn't even kill him. Yet Maharet can bind him? How? Why?
>
> Well, Maharet is old, powerful. Even the infusion of Akasha's
powerful
> blood could not provide Lestat with power enough to break Maharet's bonds.
> Also, considering that they were of her hair and gold, I bet there was
some
> untold magic in the mix. Also, many times the bonds were coupled in prose
with
> her blood--powerful and old, the two go hand in hand, her blood is surely
more
> powerful than the mixture that now flows in Lestat. Why is a whole other
> question, and I didn't get that myself... it makes me curious though. I
bet
> it was a plant.
Marius too has drunk from Akasha many times and when he meets Maharet he
recognises her for someone who is very much stronger then he is.
David Thomas
>Marius too has drunk from Akasha many times and when he meets Maharet he
>recognises her for someone who is very much stronger then he is.
::nodnodnodnod::
::pointpointpointpoint::
See, Mekare really *is* Queen of the Damned.
(The Damned being Rice fans...)
Hee hee.
Fish Eye no Miko
news:20020228234236...@mb-fe.aol.com...
> From what you keep writing it seems like you expect completely static
> characters who never change. After all, if Pandora was said to be
> Greek in TVL, she MUST be Greek throughout! ::rolls eyes::
You mean people can change their ethnicity? Wow, I wanna be Asian! How
would I go about doing that?
Catherine Johnson.
--
dis "able" to reply
"There are fifteen different kinds of animation in this movie--and they all
suck."
-Christina Holland, stomptokyo.com, on Ralph Bakshi's animated version
of _Lord of the Rings_.
Mekare
>
> You mean people can change their ethnicity? Wow, I wanna be Asian! How
> would I go about doing that?
>
> Catherine Johnson.
> --
Lol - David Talbot did.
Mekare
Mekare
"David Thomas" <vael...@aol.comUspamao> schreef in bericht
news:20020301001141...@mb-fe.aol.com...
Sunny Me
> "Ashe" <din...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:3c6e825a...@news.mindspring.com...
> > Kelly Christopherson <davi...@earthlink.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Hi,
> > > I was a member of the "old listserv" and archive ring. I went overseas
> > >for about a year and I have not been able to find anyone from the old
> > >days... and I have no idea what happened to them. All I have been told
> > >is "Never post a story with your real name attached, otherwise you may
> > >end up like those poor souls in the Anne Rice fandom." Does anyone have
> > >any true information about this situation. I truly miss Black Rose and
> > >Black Emerald, to name a few. Thanks, you can reply to this or contact
> > >me at khe...@yahoo.com.
> > >-khellee (formerly Keli)
> >
> > Khellee,
> > Back in 2000, Anne decided that she did not allow fanfiction. What her
> > concern with it up to that point was, we don't know. She posted her
> > message on her website and then performed a witchunt on any and all
> > websites that dared post any form of fanfiction and had her lawyers
> > send nasty-grams to all the site owners to cease and desist under
> > threat of financial disembowelment. Thus the the SpecWriter Massacre
> > of 2000 took place. If there are any fanfiction sites still on the
> > 'net, they are so well hidden that unless you have the addy you won't
> > find them. Good luck to you.
> > Take care,
> > Ashe
>
> That was dumb of her.
>
> It's true that most fan fictions are awful, but it also allows the authors
> to show how much they love her characters and concepts.
>
> It allows them to explore ideas, what ifs, etc.
>
> If I wrote something that people liked enough to write fan fiction for, I'd
> be flattered.
>
> -Rubystars
Hiya.
So what is fanfiction anyway?
TomGim
I think perhaps her motivations have changed since she wrote the first
novel in the VC. Not necessarily for the worse, but I think the loss
of a daughter might have been a factor in the writing Interview,
however .. that was a project by itself, and perhaps a tough act to
follow .. emotionally .. if you know what I mean ...
Rubystars
"Sunny Me" <call...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:9fe77af8.02030...@posting.google.com...
Fan fiction is when you take characters that you like from other people's
stories and write your own stories about them. Like if you didn't like how a
book ended, you might write your own ending to it, or if you are a big fan
of say, Lestat, then you might write a story about him.
I enjoyed reading some mega man fan fiction a while back.
http://www.spores.net/Mechadrake/bnf.html
That's a fun one if you like video games.
Since this thread started I have found some anne rice fan fiction too, but I
won't post it because it will get taken down because people will report the
pages.
Usually with Anne Rice fics they avoid direct references to the characters
by saying L_st_t or something like that, so you know who they're talking
about. :)
-Rubystars
Isis
> with characters and stories as she goes along, and I haven't seen any
> continuity errors yet.
I just quoted two in my earlier message.
From what you keep writing it seems like you expect
> completely static characters who never change. After all, if Pandora was said
> to be Greek in TVL, she MUST be Greek throughout! ::rolls eyes::
Hmm...has your nationality changed recently? If so, how did you do
this?
> >WHY can she bind him with her hair? She is not the Queen, Mekare is.
>
> Old, powerful, 'nuff said.
But where's the proof that this is the reason? That is what I'm
trying to point out here. We don't get any explanation. It's just
thrown in there with nothing to back it up.
-Daizy
Isis
> No no no no no...
>
> Allow me to explain it to you...
> You said the novels were getting bad... You say what you think is bad
> about them, but you don't provide examples.
Yes, I did! Below I provided two glaring continuity errors. ???
> I believe you
>
> ...Riiight...
Okay, what is your point with the above? If you believe I enjoyed the
earlier stuff why would you not believe that I am genuinely
disappointed with the more recent stuff?
>
> I read in my copy of TVL from page 395 (Marius's Story - 5 "It happened
> my fortieth year...") to page 415 (begin 7 "Do not be afraid, Marius. I wait
> for you. Take the light and come to me.")... I even went all the way back to
> Page 375 (begin 3 "I came into a brightly illuminated...") I cannot in any of
> this find what you say, "I was madly in love with a beautiful brown-haired
> GREEK courtesan named Pandora," nor any mention of Pandora. Perhaps it's not
> in my edition? I have... let's see... ISBN 0-345-31386-0, First Ballantine
> Books Edition: Oct 1986. I wonder if you have an earlier edition and it was...
I have the hardcover and mine was printed after yours. So it's in
there. Keep looking.
> Hmm... let's see... ::looks:: I have, BTW, ISBN 0-345-42238-4, First
> Ballantine Books Edition: 1999... now, that aside...
> If I recall correctly, Pandora moved to Antioch after the death of her
> family. She was supposed to marry a Greek, but instead took up an independant
> life. She there met Marius once more, and at the time functioned as an
> independant lady--something which I believe one could very much call the
> capacity of a 'courtesan.'
A courtesan, my dear, was someone who sold sex for money. And in fact
this was probably the only way at that time that a woman could be
independant. Still Marius says Pandora was a courtesan when he met
her. That means it would have been before she was a vampire.
>
> Well, Maharet is old, powerful. Even the infusion of Akasha's powerful
> blood could not provide Lestat with power enough to break Maharet's bonds.
This is my point. Why are we not given the answer to "why"?
> Also, considering that they were of her hair and gold, I bet there was some
> untold magic in the mix.
A possibility, but that is all speculation. The fact that there is no
answer to the question of "why" she could do this to Lestat, is what
makes it seem implausible. If there had been reasoning provided, then
naturally it would have made more sense.
> You speak as if logic dictates all and experience matters for naught.
> Have you ever dealt with the psychology of an atheist? An agnostic?
> Very few of them believe in nothing. Indeed, most of those who one would
> characterize as a devout Christian are those most eligible to be non-believers.
> Armand is just a hypocrite, somewhat.
Perhaps, but wouldn't Louis have noticed then in the years he spent
with him? Louis was certainly someone who wanted to believe, and even
talked to Armand on more than one occasion about his own beliefs. It
seems illogical that his true feelings would not have come out about
this? And what about Daniel? He called Armand his "Demon Familiar".
Hardly a nickname you would give to someone who was expressing any
sort of belief in God. So we can explain it away with TVA, but to me
it seems like an author who has made a mistake by killing off a main
character and then trying to "cover her ass". Why wouldn't Louis have
gone into the sun over Veronica's Veil? Based on religious beliefs,
he certainly would have been the most likely to do so.
And let's talk about Mael for a minute. Mael was a Druid. A Pagan.
And in fact he brought Marius into his circle to become "their God".
Mael is also a very stubborn individual. Mael wouldn't give a shit
about Veronica's Veil! See, the catholicism stuff that has invaded her
books rampantly since Memnoch is irritating too. If she's going back
to being a practicing Catholic, then good for her if that's what she
wants to do. But, it seems like we were being force fed her religious
viewpoints for several books there. It wouldn't have surprised me if
she had made Lestat an altar boy. Armand and Mael offing themselves
over a religious relic is about as likely.
>
> Okay, so I'll be an ass... So friggin' what? America is great because
> one can come here and make the almighty dollar. Money = power, and corruption
> is the new politics. Perhaps we should focus on the many corporations that are
> butt-fucking consumers?
What are you talking about? Anne Rice IS a corporation. Haven't you
been to New Orleans? She practically owns the whole damn town. To
me, she is no better than any of those corporations at this point. At
least I can probably get something of use out of what I buy from them
besides a book that's only useful purpose is to be used as a doorstop.
Or maybe we should look at the fact that we can do it
> ourselves and be rich. Is it evil? Maybe.
I don't know that it is evil, but I think whatever goes around comes
around. If so many people are not happy with the product she is
putting out then you can't tell me that Anne doesn't at least have
some inkling that she is not writing her best work. And when someone
is contracted to put out two books a year, there is no way you will
have the time to spend on it that you have had on past novels. But if
she doesn't put out two books, she doesn't get her money.
>
> >For cynicism? I wasn't aware that was a problem that required a
> >self-help book.
>
> It's unhealthy.
Well so is sarcasm. Actually the two can go hand in hand.
> I've provided as much proof as you have.
Where? I've provided page numbers and quotes to back up my claims.
Where are yours?
-Daizy
Isis
> of the material, lately many people are beginning to sound more like
> King's Annie Wilkes. Why are people slamming this woman's work ... ?
Because lately it is a mess. Because when I buy a book I would like
to be able to enjoy it. Not feel like throwing it across the room
when I finish it because of stupid things like blatant errors,
inconsistancies, and things that just make no sense.
> I mean I also felt a change in her writing style after QOTD .. but ..
> if we consider the past motivation for the first installment of the
> chronicles namely, the passing of her daughter Michelle, I believe
> that vulnerability and very powerful emotions definately contributed
> to the inspiration for the creation of IWTV, but she's not an
> emotional production line and sooner or later she had to progress
> beyond that to a new period of her life both as a person and an
> author.
This is true, and I'm not saying that her work can't progress. But
should this give her license to make glaring mistakes that she should
know are incorrect better than anyone else? I mean, she created the
universe. Shouldn't she have a good knowledge of it herself? Is that
too much to expect from someone who makes their living as a writer?
I still respect her work and her decision to continue the
> Vampire Chronicles which I believe was as much motivated by a genuine
> desire to give to hungry audiences like us as much as any supposed
> literary and financial acclaim.
I wish she had stopped. I keep hoping she'll stop. The VC's could
have ended with QotD. Or even TotBT! But to continue churning out
this junk is an insult to her fans! I admire what she has
accomplished and I love many of her books, but I won't just swallow
anything she dishes out when she has proven she is capable of
remarkable work. Until that starts to happen again (which I think, at
this point, is unlikely), I won't be buying any of the new books.
-Daizy
Rubystars
I *never* *never* buy books brand new. I always buy them used or borrow them
from the library. They will say the same things whether they have been read
before or not. To actually go into a bookstore and shell out a ton of money
for a brand new book that is just like the used one, and which might have
been read a little too, since it's on the shelf, just seems ludicrous.
-Rubystars
David Thomas
>would I go about doing that?
Move to Asia.
David Thomas
I really don't care. In the end, you've shown nothing.
>Hmm...has your nationality changed recently? If so, how did you do
>this?
If I speak of someone as 'Asian' or 'French,' they may not be native, but
naturalized. Plus, I still can't find this. Perhaps you could post an entire
paragraph so that I can locate it easier.
>But where's the proof that this is the reason?
As in the reason why she can? There is no proof that this is why she can, but
it's sufficient reason to allow her to. If there's any explanation
forthcoming, then it comes from Rice alone.
>That is what I'm
>trying to point out here. We don't get any explanation.
Poor you.
>It's just
>thrown in there with nothing to back it up.
Like your criticism.
David Thomas
>novel in the VC.
I think you're mondo right.
>Not necessarily for the worse, but I think the loss
>of a daughter might have been a factor in the writing Interview,
Depressed Anne = Louis
Lost Daughter = Claudia
? = Lestat...
>however .. that was a project by itself, and perhaps a tough act to
>follow .. emotionally .. if you know what I mean ...
Doubtless.
TomGim
Yeah .. I kind of associated Claudia .. with the ideal of a daughter
that could not die, and I agree 100% with your association of Louis
with Anne.. perhaps one step further would be to also associate Lestat
with Anne's darker side, a sort of transference of angst???
Fish Eye no Miko
> >You mean people can change their ethnicity? Wow, I wanna be Asian!
> > How would I go about doing that?
>
> Move to Asia.
That would change my *nationality*, not my *ethnicity*. Without body
switching or some major genetic tampering, neither of which Pandora has
undergone that I know of, you can't change your ethnicity.
Catherine Johnson.
--
dis "able" to reply
Right now you are reading my .sig quote.
alexandra
> >
> > Old, powerful, 'nuff said.
>
> But where's the proof that this is the reason? That is what I'm
> trying to point out here. We don't get any explanation. It's just
> thrown in there with nothing to back it up.
>
> -Daizy
if it was all explained to you in one book, what point would there be in
buying the next one.....
-alexandra
Ashe
>
>"Ashe" <din...@mindspring.com> schreef in bericht
>news:3c7c3a5d...@news.mindspring.com...
>> animaux <ani...@jiknnbvk.net> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >I love the way you love to hate the rich. Me thinks you are a bit
>envious of
>> >Anne's success. Anyone who would think the reason I notified Anne was
>because
>> >I'm sheep-like has some pretty interesting work that needs to be done in
>> >therapy. This has nothing to do with money. Nothing.
>> >
>> >I am a fan of Anne Rice. Obviously, most people left in this dismally
>boring
>> >newsgroup are not fans.
>>
>> Humm, jealous of Rice's success? Let me think about that. Honesty, I
>> might be jealous if she was still putting out the work she used to be
>> capable of, but now...hardly. Personally, the crap I've seen this
>> woman spew lately I'd be ashamed to put my name to if I were her.
>> (Laughing) I mean, a typo is one thing...changing a character's name
>> in mid-story is quite another. How could a responsible author miss
>> something like that. Oh yes, she is above using an editor.
>> I don't hate the rich. Personally, I don't really have any opinions
>> about the rich as they are just as capable of positive or negative
>> actions as the rest of us.
>> Ashe
>>
>
>What character are you talking about?
Sorry this is late in coming. He is the character that goes from being
Michael to Matthew to Michael....or Matthew to Michael to Matthew. I
don't remember the exact order. He get very sick and dies and I
believe he was involved with Honey in the Sunshine.
Ashe
David Thomas
Well, Lord help me, the Pandora thing was cheap. I read the entire bit and I
can't find it still. Post the entire paragraph it's in so that I can actually
find it. Post the paragraphs around it if you have to. Until I can see it, I
won't believe you.
>Okay, what is your point with the above? If you believe I enjoyed the
>earlier stuff why would you not believe that I am genuinely
>disappointed with the more recent stuff?
I earlier said that I questioned your fandom. You like more than half her
writings. I question no longer. If you can't follow the conversation, don't
speak.
>I have the hardcover and mine was printed after yours. So it's in
>there. Keep looking.
I've looked as long as I am going to. You'll have to provide me with more
information.
>A courtesan, my dear, was someone who sold sex for money.
You're about ignorant, my dear. A courtesan was a hostess, a gossip, and could
have been a whore or not. She might just be a slut for that matter.
>Still Marius says Pandora was a courtesan when he met
>her. That means it would have been before she was a vampire.
He doesn't imply 'when he met her.' You claim that Anne wrote that Marius said
'I was madly in love with a beautiful brown-haired GREEK courtesan named
Pandora,' not that she was a courtesan when he met her. Don't go confusing
yourself, now.
>This is my point. Why are we not given the answer to "why"?
That's classified.
>A possibility, but that is all speculation. The fact that there is no
>answer to the question of "why" she could do this to Lestat, is what
>makes it seem implausible. If there had been reasoning provided, then
>naturally it would have made more sense.
Anne need not write to sate your simplest of logics. Aside, she will probably
write it later, or explain later, since she usually does such. That you can't
live with her complex storytelling is irrelevent to her skill.
>Perhaps, but wouldn't Louis have noticed then in the years he spent
>with him?
Think about Louis's perceptions of Lestat. Exactly how accurate did they seem?
>Louis was certainly someone who wanted to believe, and even
>talked to Armand on more than one occasion about his own beliefs.
I would think that Louis and Armand are opposites in this respect. To me,
Louis wants to believe, to find truth in something, but can't. Armand would
rather not believe, but can't help himself.
>It
>seems illogical that his true feelings would not have come out about
>this?
It also seems illogical that I got an eyelash in my sinuses and missed two days
of school because of the damned thing, but life isn't about logic.
>And what about Daniel? He called Armand his "Demon Familiar".
>SARCASM< And what a perceptive creature Daniel is. >SARCASM<
>Why wouldn't Louis have
>gone into the sun over Veronica's Veil?
As I said, he doesn't believe. Louis isn't a devout Christian anyway. His
search for truth has nothing to do with any sort of Christ. Tortured Amadeo,
however--why do you think he is named 'Beloved of God?'
David Thomas
>that
>of Lestat. So, Anne is Lestat as he speaks directly to and through her.
Yeah, but before TVL, Lestat wasn't necessarily her. Or, perhaps Louis and
Lestat were both her even then. It makes sense, though.
Isis
LOL! I've shown more than you! We have yet to see anything from
canon or even examples to back up your statements.
>
> If I speak of someone as 'Asian' or 'French,' they may not be native, but
> naturalized.
Hey genius, you are either Asian or you are not. This really is not a
difficult concept to understand, but apparently you and Anne seem to
have problems with it.
Plus, I still can't find this. Perhaps you could post an entire
> paragraph so that I can locate it easier.
Sheesh, perhaps I could just type the entire book out for you. Why
should I? Debate takes research. Why don't you try it? The paragraph
begins with "But by the time I realized all this I was powerfully
engaged in watching the goings on of the city and the changing of the
times."
> As in the reason why she can? There is no proof that this is why she can, but
> it's sufficient reason to allow her to. If there's any explanation
> forthcoming, then it comes from Rice alone.
Sure and it will come in a later contrived reason *after* the mistake
has been brought to her attention. And it may be a sufficent enough
reason for some, but not for all.
> >It's just
> >thrown in there with nothing to back it up.
>
> Like your criticism.
Then that doesn't say much for yours, does it? At least I have
provided text to back up my statements. So far, you are giving
nothing but opinions with no fact to back it up.
-Daizy
David Thomas
>canon or even examples to back up your statements.
Your 'examples' are shit.
>Hey genius, you are either Asian or you are not. This really is not a
>difficult concept to understand, but apparently you and Anne seem to
>have problems with it.
Your black and white logic doesn't work.
>Sheesh, perhaps I could just type the entire book out for you.
Only a paragraph will do. Your page number wasn't enough. Why don't you try
section and chapter numbers?
>Why
>should I?
Because until I know what you're talking about, which I do not, I cannot assess
your correctness. Until you've proven there is an apparent problem with Anne's
writing I can neither agree nor disagree with you because I don't know what
that problem is or whether it exists or is just a mindless fantasy.
>Debate takes research. Why don't you try it?
I read 60+ pages on your last post, and that twice over. That is, not counting
the scanning through Pandora that I did, ignoring the number of pages only
seeking information.
>The paragraph
>begins with "But by the time I realized all this I was powerfully
>engaged in watching the goings on of the city and the changing of the
>times."
And you say page 403? How about the chapter/section?
>Sure and it will come in a later contrived reason *after* the mistake
>has been brought to her attention. And it may be a sufficent enough
>reason for some, but not for all.
What you call mistakes I call plot twists. Who is wrong? It's probably
arbitrary.
>Then that doesn't say much for yours, does it?
I haven't criticized her. You have. You made claims. I merely stated that
you hadn't proved a thing. I have not attempted to make my opinions fact; I
have only pointed out the flaws in your own assertions.
>At least I have
>provided text to back up my statements.
Mystery text that cannot be found. Moreover, your interpretational skills are
negligible
>So far, you are giving
>nothing but opinions with no fact to back it up.
I have expressed opinions, but what is relevant is that you've proven nothing
about Rice's writings, you've not properly demonstrated that there are
'blaring' continuity errors, and you've only worn my patience thin.
Elitt220
>Lestat were both her even then. It makes sense, though
I haven't gotten through all of IWTV, but before they make Claudia a vampire,
after the they kill the whores, Lestat is saying something to the point of him
wanting to become a mother that night. I can't help but think now that part is
Anne coming through. That's just my opinion, though.
Isis
Okay, if the Pandora issue is not enough to prove quality has dropped
in Anne's books, then let's talk about the fact that in QotD Maharet
states that after she becomes a vampire, all of the spirits that she
and Mekare could communicate with leave them and they can no longer
see them. Likewise, Jesse often sees the ghost of her mother, Miriam,
as well as others when she is working for the Talamasca. When Jesse
becomes a vampire, the ghost of her mother leaves for good, just as
the spirits left Maharet and Mekare. Now, jump to MtD, the beginning
of the "decline". Lestat speaks with the spirit of Roger after he has
killed him. Now, as Maharet and Mekare are much older than Lestat
(and as you stated so adamantly before, much more powerful) it is
impossible that Lestat would be able to communicate with spirits when
they , both of whom used to be powerful witches, can not? This was
established as an impossibility for vampires to do. Lestat is a
vampire. According to Rice herself, he should not be able to do this.
Or how about this error in characterization. Lestat states rather
candidly in TVL that he had never been good in Math, and in fact we
also know from that novel that his education was very limited. Louis,
on the other hand mentions in IWTV that he himself is somewhat of a
financial wiz. Jump to Memnoch and now not only can Louis not
understand something as simple as the multiplication tables, but
Lestat claims he can now do this with ease. Did Lestat suddenly
become a mathematician? Did Louis suddenly become stupid? Is it a
characteristic of a good writer to forget which of her characters
excel at what?
Now, Merrick. Merrick claims that Claudia's possessions were all kept
in the Motherhouse in London because in the 80's, there was no
Motherhouse there in New orleans. Then just a few pages later, she
claims that she herself has lived in the motherhouse since she was 14
which was twenty years ago. Now this is in the same novel! Is this
something a good editor would have missed? No. And then we have the
character of Matthew....who is called Matthew on page 144 and then
suddenly turns into Michael on page 145! Now, I ask you, would a
writer who is giving us quality work FORGET the name of one of her own
characters?? And even if she did forget it, how could she allow that
to go into print without having it checked first by SOMEONE?
I read the entire bit and I
> can't find it still. Post the entire paragraph it's in so that I can actually
> find it. Post the paragraphs around it if you have to. Until I can see it, I
> won't believe you.
Whether you believe me or not is irrelevant, it's there, so you'll be
proven quite a fool if you keep saying that. I have given you an
exact page number, the beginning of the paragraph, and the exact
quote. I can not control the fact that you don't have the same
edition of the book I do. I may not be proving my point to you, but
you are definitely proving your ineptitude. Anyone out there have the
paperback copy of TVL? If so, please see if you can give us the page
in that edition.
>
> >Okay, what is your point with the above? If you believe I enjoyed the
> >earlier stuff why would you not believe that I am genuinely
> >disappointed with the more recent stuff?
>
> I earlier said that I questioned your fandom. You like more than half her
> writings. I question no longer. If you can't follow the conversation, don't
> speak.
I was responding to a sarcastic "riiiiiiight" which was aparrently
questioning my reasons for disliking the latest work, so why don't you
take your own advice about following this conversation. Hell, you
can't even find a quote when I give you a page number.
there.
>
> I've looked as long as I am going to. You'll have to provide me with more
> information.
Frankly, screw you. I am not going to waste my time doing any more
research until you catch up. You can say you "can't find it" from
here to eternity if you want, but that doesn't mean I'm not right. It
just means you can't turn pages, or something. ???
>
> >A courtesan, my dear, was someone who sold sex for money.
>
> You're about ignorant, my dear. A courtesan was a hostess, a gossip, and could
> have been a whore or not. She might just be a slut for that matter.
Websters Dictionary: "courtesan - a prostitute with a courtly,
wealthy, or upper-class clientele." AHEM. I think I'll take
Websters word over yours.Be careful who you call ignorant. We often
accuse others of what we see in ourselves.
>
> >Still Marius says Pandora was a courtesan when he met
> >her. That means it would have been before she was a vampire.
>
> He doesn't imply 'when he met her.' You claim that Anne wrote that Marius said
> 'I was madly in love with a beautiful brown-haired GREEK courtesan named
> Pandora,' not that she was a courtesan when he met her.
Well, it would make sense that Marius "fell in love" with her before
he made her a vampire. And since back then (meaning when Anne was
still sticking to her own stories) vampires couldn't have sex, how
much sense would make that Pandora was "sellin' love on the corner"
after she was a vampire? Marius had plenty of wealth to take care of
her, and even if he hadn't, it wouldn't have taken her long to build
up her own wealth by stealing from her victims.
Don't go confusing
> yourself, now.
I'm not confused at all, but I don't know if I can say the same about
you.
> >This is my point. Why are we not given the answer to "why"?
>
> That's classified.
That's a copout.
> >A possibility, but that is all speculation. The fact that there is no
> >answer to the question of "why" she could do this to Lestat, is what
> >makes it seem implausible. If there had been reasoning provided, then
> >naturally it would have made more sense.
>
> Anne need not write to sate your simplest of logics. Aside, she will probably
> write it later, or explain later, since she usually does such.
Exactly! She usually does to explain all of the mistakes and
continuity errors she made in the previous book. Hello! Why is this
so difficult to see? Do you think she *planned* to mistakenly call
one of her characters by the wrong name in Merrick? Give me a break.
That you can't
> live with her complex storytelling
COMPLEX???? Shyeeeeeah.
is irrelevent to her skill.
>
> >Perhaps, but wouldn't Louis have noticed then in the years he spent
> >with him?
>
> Think about Louis's perceptions of Lestat. Exactly how accurate did they seem?
Actually I think Louis' perceptions of Lestat are pretty right on. I
tend to share his viewpoint on alot of Lestat's antics, but that is
another discussion altogether.
>
> >Louis was certainly someone who wanted to believe, and even
> >talked to Armand on more than one occasion about his own beliefs.
>
> I would think that Louis and Armand are opposites in this respect. To me,
> Louis wants to believe, to find truth in something, but can't. Armand would
> rather not believe, but can't help himself.
Where is proof that Armand believes in anything at all in the first
four books? We're comparing the first four to the last few. We are
trying to gauge continuity. You say he does. Prove it. I already
included a quote from IWTV which indicates to me that he doesn't.
>
> >It
> >seems illogical that his true feelings would not have come out about
> >this?
>
> It also seems illogical that I got an eyelash in my sinuses and missed two days
> of school because of the damned thing, but life isn't about logic.
This isn't life, this is a fictional novel. Logic and sense are all
in the power of the author. A luxury we do not have in life. So this
is a comparison that does not make much sense.
>
> >Why wouldn't Louis have
> >gone into the sun over Veronica's Veil?
>
> As I said, he doesn't believe. Louis isn't a devout Christian anyway. His
> search for truth has nothing to do with any sort of Christ.
WHAT?! Louis was a Catholic. He had major issues all through IWTV
because everything he was doing was going against what he had learned
in the church. And the finding of this relic, you think, wouldn't
have been important to him? PLEEEEEASE. Louis has always been the
most likely vampire to "go into the fire" as it were. In IWTV he kept
questioning Armand about God. Did Armand have any proof? And Armand,
who you for some reason think was the big believer says there isn't a
God.
Tortured Amadeo,
> however--why do you think he is named 'Beloved of God?'
I don't know. My name means lovable, but I doubt you're picking up on
that are you? =P
-Daizy
Fish Eye no Miko
> >Hey genius, you are either Asian or you are not. This really is not
> >a difficult concept to understand, but apparently you and Anne seem
> >to have problems with it.
>
> Your black and white logic doesn't work.
Why not? Can you change your ethnicity? Please tell me how.
Catherine Johnson.
--
dis "able" to reply
"This is Precious Roy, and you kids better pay for that lap dance!"
_Precious Roy, _Sifl & Olly_.
David Thomas
Sorry, I didn't finish this post earlier because someone came into my room
while I was getting food and sent it for me... before I had completed it.
Anyhow...
Daizy wrote...
>>Yes, I did! Below I provided two glaring continuity errors. ???
I wrote...
>Well, Lord help me, the Pandora thing was cheap. I read the entire bit and I
(SNIP my comments until)
>Why wouldn't Louis have
>gone into the sun over Veronica's Veil?
As I said, he doesn't believe. Louis isn't a devout Christian anyway. His
search for truth has nothing to do with any sort of Christ. Tortured Amadeo,
however--why do you think he is named 'Beloved of God?'
>And let's talk about Mael for a minute. Mael was a Druid. A Pagan.
>And in fact he brought Marius into his circle to become "their God".
>Mael is also a very stubborn individual. Mael wouldn't give a shit
>about Veronica's Veil!
Okay, Mael was somewhat a cheap kill. However, she could have just been trying
to propound what a great influence the veil was. Besides, he was a pagan, then
he was, I think, a sort of Maharet-worshipper. He seems to me the type of
person that just gives his life over to something. The veil was just the next
biggy.
>See, the catholicism stuff that has invaded her
>books rampantly since Memnoch is irritating too. If she's going back
>to being a practicing Catholic, then good for her if that's what she
>wants to do. But, it seems like we were being force fed her religious
>viewpoints for several books there.
If you don't like it, don't read it. Simple as that.
>It wouldn't have surprised me if
>she had made Lestat an altar boy.
Oh, I bet it would have.
>What are you talking about? Anne Rice IS a corporation.
My point being that if we are to bitch about Anne making money then we're
narrowing our scope. There are many more evil people out there turning a
profit. Oh, bad, bad capitalism.
>Haven't you
>been to New Orleans?
Sadly, no.
>She practically owns the whole damn town.
But I did know this.
>a book that's only useful purpose is to be used as a doorstop.
Oh, but it's a pretty doorstop, full of all those literary-isms that you so
hate.
>If so many people are not happy with the product she is
>putting out then you can't tell me that Anne doesn't at least have
>some inkling that she is not writing her best work.
It matters not. I don't think she's writing to please anyone. I can't say why
Anne writes, though. I do think that you don't give her enough credit. You
treat her as if she's inhuman. Perhaps thats ironic. (Vampire stuff, sure...)
>> >For cynicism? I wasn't aware that was a problem that required a
>> >self-help book.
>>
>> It's unhealthy.
>
>Well so is sarcasm. Actually the two can go hand in hand.
No... you see, sarcasm is the power to see the irony and tragedy in everyday
things. It is thinking about everything as a whole. Cynicism is bitter
sarcasm, and pessimistic at that.
>Where? I've provided page numbers and quotes to back up my claims.
Inconclusive 'evidence,' since I can't even find what you speak of, no matter
how diligently I search.
>Where are yours?
That's my question.
David Thomas
For one, Marius may or may not have been referring to Pandora's 'ethnicity.'
Also, someone born in Rome may have had parents or ancestors not of Roman
origin. Hell, there are just too many complications. This is why black and
white logic does not work.
Also, depending on how one would define 'ethnicity,' one might change it quite
easily I'm sure.
Isis
> >gone into the sun over Veronica's Veil?
>
> As I said, he doesn't believe. Louis isn't a devout Christian anyway.
Okay. Prove this statement. What text do you have to back this up?
I think there is plenty in IWTV of Louis search for God to merit him
as being the most likely to take the finding of veronica's veil as
proof of what he has searched for. that's what the whole novel IWTV
was about. Louis search for truth.
His
> search for truth has nothing to do with any sort of Christ. Tortured Amadeo,
> however--why do you think he is named 'Beloved of God?'
Again, the interpretation of one's name does not always have anything
to do with that individual's personality. As I stated in my other
post to which you haven't yet responded, my name means "lovable". =P
Do I consider myself to be this? Not particularly.
> Okay, Mael was somewhat a cheap kill. However, she could have just been trying
> to propound what a great influence the veil was.
Wouldn't it have seemed a greater influence if it effected those who
had been searching for truth? rather than those who really couldn't
have given a rat's ass?
Besides, he was a pagan, then
> he was, I think, a sort of Maharet-worshipper. He seems to me the type of
> person that just gives his life over to something. The veil was just the next
> biggy.
It is never stated that Mael ever gave up his druidic beliefs. In
fact in "Blood and Gold" it apparently states that Mael is still quite
a believer in his old ways centuries after Marius was made. Plus,
Mael was also the type of vampire who seperated himself from
civilization. He didn't mingle among mortals all that much. Makes it
even harder to believe that he was suddenly converted to christianity
when none of the vampires he associated with proclaimed to be
christian.
>
> >See, the catholicism stuff that has invaded her
> >books rampantly since Memnoch is irritating too. If she's going back
> >to being a practicing Catholic, then good for her if that's what she
> >wants to do. But, it seems like we were being force fed her religious
> >viewpoints for several books there.
>
> If you don't like it, don't read it. Simple as that.
How do I know I don't like something until I've read it? Am I
supposed to have some sort of literary ESP? Maybe you can explain
this to me along with your preposterous claim that I can also change
my ethnicity. I have always wanted to be of Celtic descent. As soon
as you tell me how, I'll get right on changing this!
>
> >It wouldn't have surprised me if
> >she had made Lestat an altar boy.
>
> Oh, I bet it would have.
After he met Satan and God and lost an eye? No. In fact Lestat as an
altar boy would have been more believable. See, Lestat has turned
into a characiture. A cartoon. He's like Super Lestat now. He goes
to hell...he goes to heaven....he switches bodies with mortals. He's
a comic book. Any sense of his battles and torments and his journey
has been completely lost.
> >What are you talking about? Anne Rice IS a corporation.
>
> My point being that if we are to bitch about Anne making money then we're
> narrowing our scope. There are many more evil people out there turning a
> profit. Oh, bad, bad capitalism.
Capitalism is only bad if the product is not worthy of the price being
charged. I own my own business as I stated in an earlier post, so I
am far from hating capitalism. Still, there is something called
ethics that very few people have in the business world, that I strive
to cultivate in my own dealings. I do not think that this woman has
business ethics. I mean...she's slapped Lestat's face on T-shirts and
mugs, Cologne, wine, keychains, and lord only knows what else. That
robs the reader of their own visualization of how Lestat looks. For
what? To express creativity? No. To rip her fans out of more money.
And let's not forget the Brain scan T-shirt or whatever. Sheesh.
> Oh, but it's a pretty doorstop, full of all those literary-isms that you so
> hate.
Another example of you ignoring the point I have made, and instead
responding with another comment that you no doubt consider "witty".
>
> It matters not. I don't think she's writing to please anyone.
This is obvious.
I can't say why
> Anne writes, though. I do think that you don't give her enough credit. You
> treat her as if she's inhuman. Perhaps thats ironic. (Vampire stuff, sure...)
I hold her up to standards she set her own precedent for. I mean,
what am I really saying? Anne should be familiar with her own work.
She should know the universe she created well enough to prevent stupid
mistakes. She should have an editor to proof read and CUT uneccessary
diatribes that amount to nothing but rambling for pages and pages.
Now, are these unreasonable things? All of them are standard for
other writers, why should she be excluded when she apparently needs
all of these things?
> No... you see, sarcasm is the power to see the irony and tragedy in everyday
> things. It is thinking about everything as a whole. Cynicism is bitter
> sarcasm, and pessimistic at that.
Actually, I am not a cynic. That may be your interpretation, but then
you hardly know me well enough to make that judgement. Just because I
think Anne is only concerned with her own self interest, doesn't mean
I feel that way about myself, or anyone else for that matter.
>
> >Where? I've provided page numbers and quotes to back up my claims.
>
> Inconclusive 'evidence,' since I can't even find what you speak of, no matter
> how diligently I search.
Again, just because you can't find it, doesn't mean it is not there.
It just means you can't find it after being given a page number, the
sentence that begins the paragraph, and the quote itself. That is
pretty sad.
-Daizy
"I was madly in love with a beautiful brown-haired Greek courtesan
named Pandora, with the loveliest arms I have ever beheld on a human
being."
-Marius, The Vampire Lestat
Pg. 403 (hardcover edition)
Jenny Horsburgh
making a ponit, so I'll get back to it. But I have a new reason to be
pissed off at you because I'm near the end of Memnoch and you just ruined it
for me. Well, thank you very much. You never disappoint.
"animaux" <ani...@yythcdl.net> wrote in message
news:hv3v7usnvd9i7g3od...@4ax.com...
> On 28 Feb 2002 19:46:11 -0800, tom...@hotmail.com (TomGim) wrote:
>
>
> >While I understand that you can still be a fan and disapprove of some
> >of the material, lately many people are beginning to sound more like
> >King's Annie Wilkes. Why are people slamming this woman's work ... ?
> >I mean I also felt a change in her writing style after QOTD .. but ..
> >if we consider the past motivation for the first installment of the
> >chronicles namely, the passing of her daughter Michelle, I believe
> >that vulnerability and very powerful emotions definately contributed
> >to the inspiration for the creation of IWTV, but she's not an
> >emotional production line and sooner or later she had to progress
> >beyond that to a new period of her life both as a person and an
> >author. I still respect her work and her decision to continue the
> >Vampire Chronicles which I believe was as much motivated by a genuine
> >desire to give to hungry audiences like us as much as any supposed
> >literary and financial acclaim.
>
> Several years ago Anne announced that Lestat had simply left her. When
she saw
> his reflection in the window in Memnoch, that was the last she saw of him.
She
> did not intend on writing anything more about it. She was on to writing
about
> ghosts. She craved and wanted to write about ghosts, thus Servant of the
Bones.
>
> Everywhere Anne went, people bombarded her with "where's Lestat, how could
you
> do this to US..." As if Anne OWED it to her fans to continue writing
something
> which she genuinely didn't want to write any more. Fans harped on her,
begged
> her, threatened her, one fan killed someone by knife in New Orleans
because Anne
> would not see or speak to him. Weird things started happening and people
> started making their ransom like demands on this mortal woman.
>
> She killed Armand in Memnoch, the fans freaked out. She tried to tell
them
> Armand is a fictitious character...they were not having any of it. It
was like
> that movie "Misery" and Anne killed Armand...her fans wanted to hobble her
till
> she wrote what they wanted her to write.
>
> So, out started novellas to try and tie people over so she could write her
ghost
> stories. None of that was ever good enough because the people complained
to her
> about how short the novella was and how she changed history, etc.
>
> Then Anne got sick. She was very near to death and spent some time in a
> diabetic coma which indeed DID change her entire outlook on life, how and
what
> she writes, how and what she wants to write about and feel, etc.
>
> Along comes fanfic. Fans of Lestat (not of Anne) started writing their
own
> stories using her characters and she merely said:
>
> ""I do not allow fan fiction.
>
> The characters are copyrighted. It upsets me terribly
to
> even think about fan fiction
> with my characters. I advise my readers to write your
own
> original stories with your
> own characters.
>
> It is absolutely essential that you respect my
wishes."
>
> -Anne Rice
>
>
> So, if people continue to write fanfiction even though she clearly has
published
> a statement that she does not allow it, I question your fan status. While
you
> or others may be Lestat or other vampire fans, this behavior is not
something a
> fan of Anne Rice would continue to do against her wishes. That's how I
draw my
> conclusions about whether or not people are fans of hers.
>
> That's the last of it.
Isis
why Anne has fan sites that include fanfiction linked to her website?
They are in the section devoted to fans and even state in their
descriptions that they include fanfiction. Seems pretty odd and
contradictory to her "command" doesn't it?
-Daizy
Rubystars
"Fish Eye no Miko" <cath...@feablenm.net> wrote in message
news:08vg8.25347$2v6.1...@news1.west.cox.net...
If she became a Greek by moving to Greece then what's wrong with referring
to Pandora as Greek in one passage? Just because later you find out that she
*originally* came from Rome, doesn't mean her ethnicity had to change.
-Rubystars
Robyn
greek court or palace, that expression might be appropriate even of she's of
Roman ethnicity.
Having said that, there are many other little inconsistencies which are
pretty distracting. One of the most irritating for me was in TVL (dont read
on if you haven't read it), calling his mother Gabrielle after working the
Dark Trick, saying that was all he could ever know her as from that moment
onwards.... then calling her and reffering to her as Mother several times
afterwards. I know it sounds trivial, but there was some symbolism attatched
to his always referring to her as Gabrielle.
The are other things, but that one just came to mind....
"Rubystars" <windst...@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a5up2e$ab090$1...@ID-63471.news.dfncis.de...
Rubystars
"Robyn" <JESS...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:lgCg8.4040$wb7....@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
> And isn't she referred to as a 'Greek Courtesan'? If she's a courtesan of
a
> greek court or palace, that expression might be appropriate even of she's
of
> Roman ethnicity.
>
> Having said that, there are many other little inconsistencies which are
> pretty distracting. One of the most irritating for me was in TVL (dont
read
> on if you haven't read it), calling his mother Gabrielle after working the
> Dark Trick, saying that was all he could ever know her as from that moment
> onwards.... then calling her and reffering to her as Mother several times
> afterwards. I know it sounds trivial, but there was some symbolism
attatched
> to his always referring to her as Gabrielle.
>
> The are other things, but that one just came to mind....
>
>
I think there is supposed to be a sort of sexual attraction there too, on
Lestat's part, a sort of mother, daughter, lover, relationship to her. :)
Then again, it never really gets serious, that I've read so far.
-Rubystars
Amy, Jim & Charlie
reading a direct quote from Anne Rice...."...It's flattering to think people
have read my work and want to build on it." EEK! Heaven forbid someone be
wrong! I suppose I am being devil's advocate and this is by FAR the longest
thread on ANY of the newsgroups I am on but I just HAD to say it! BTW this
is in the Playboy Interview. I don't want playboy coming after me or I would
type up the interview and post it here. Would that be copyright infringement
if I wrote it up even if I credited them? DON'T ANSWER, THAT WAS REDUNDANT!
Call me the brat prince(ss)....couldn't resist.
Amy (who might be possessed with Lestat tonight)
"Isis" <daizy_de...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6e2ad1c7.02030...@posting.google.com...
Rubystars
"Amy, Jim & Charlie" <cdog...@nospamcinci.rr.com> wrote in message
news:_JCg8.104057$Hu6.27...@typhoon.neo.rr.com...
> This is so evil of me to post this but I just have to tell someone....I am
> reading a direct quote from Anne Rice...."...It's flattering to think
people
> have read my work and want to build on it." EEK! Heaven forbid someone be
> wrong! I suppose I am being devil's advocate and this is by FAR the
longest
> thread on ANY of the newsgroups I am on but I just HAD to say it! BTW this
> is in the Playboy Interview. I don't want playboy coming after me or I
would
> type up the interview and post it here. Would that be copyright
infringement
> if I wrote it up even if I credited them? DON'T ANSWER, THAT WAS
REDUNDANT!
>
> Call me the brat prince(ss)....couldn't resist.
>
> Amy (who might be possessed with Lestat tonight)
>
>
*LOL* Type up the interview, no one's going to sue you. :) If they do, say
your cat did it.
-Rubystars
Fish Eye no Miko
> >Why not? Can you change your ethnicity? Please tell me how.
>
> For one, Marius may or may not have been referring to Pandora's
'ethnicity.'
Yet Anne never states this anywhere.
> Also, someone born in Rome may have had parents or ancestors not of Roman
> origin.
So, instead of just admitting Anne could have POSSIBLY made a mistake, you
have to come up with elaborate reasons why she's right. Ever hear of a
zebra hunt, Dave?
> Hell, there are just too many complications. This is why black and
> white logic does not work.
She goofed. How hard it that?
> Also, depending on how one would define 'ethnicity,' one might change it
quite
> easily I'm sure.
Please tell me how.
Jenny Horsburgh
until I find something worth buying my own copy of.
"animaux" <ani...@yythcdl.net> wrote in message
news:uo3v7u4q6anpu41h6...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 1 Mar 2002 00:05:29 +0000 (UTC), "Jenny Horsburgh"
> <Jen_...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> >Well, judging by your sarcastic, patronising remarks that have, by now,
been
> >directed at just about everyone in the newsgroup, you feel yourself to be
> >above everyone else. But then, I think the reason why you pick on
people's
> >stupid typing mistakes is because you have nothing better so say. Now,
note
> >this is my opinion, seeing as you tend to have a problem with people
having
> >their opinions.
>
> >Oh, and by the way, I know the layout of my local library like to back of
my
> >hand, and I'm proud of it. I know what Anne Rice books they have and
which
> >one's they haven't got. I've borrowed countless books from the library
and
> >I don't need you to make out like I'm stupid becaue I do know how to make
> >good use of literary resources. However, I believe that people paying
for
> >books at a high price deserve to get their money's worth. Books with
> >mistakes in them are kind of insulting of Anne Rice's status, don't you
> >think? She is a respected writer. It's kind of ridiculous that she cant
be
> >bothered to do a simple thing as to make sure there are no silly mistales
in
> >her works before printing. Is that not a fair argument?
>
> I guess it's fair to the person who seems to be bent on reading an author
who
> you no longer find credible and who you think writes nothing more than
crap.
> Why would you even bother? That's why I said get it from the library. If
you
> like the book, go buy it for your collection. I do that all the time with
any
> number of books.
Amy, Jim & Charlie
around on this NG (or any NG) but you never know when one of his lackey'ss
is running around (*cough* animaux *cough)
;)
Amy