Gender Representation in "Interview with Vampire"
Lisa Reynolds
interesting.
Lisa
Vickie Locke wrote in message
>Hi,
>
>I'm new. Looking for discussion on Rice's gender representations in
>"Interview with the Vampire". Specifically, the effect of transgendered
>individuals such as Louis.
>
>Kato
>
>
Vickie Locke
Vickie Locke
masculine characteristics (according to the dominant culture, that is). He
is emotional and somewhat motherly. However, at the same time, he hints of
the incestuous father with Claudia.
Claudia also appears transgendered, dressing in ultra feminine clothes, but
displaying an extreme aggressiveness.
Do you see other examples of this in the book? What effect does this have
on the novel and on our interpretations of gender?
Vickie
Lisa Reynolds <Auth...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:7vj4hs$29f2$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com...
> Transgendered means both genders? If I'm wrong, let me know. This sounds
> interesting.
>
> Lisa
> Vickie Locke wrote in message
Lisa Reynolds
Vampire Lestat, Gabrielle is the same way. She is Lestat's mother but
dresses in male clothes after she became a vampire. I can also see an
incestuous relationship here. Is that good?
Lisa
Laura Bryannan
person in quesion does not believe they are in the correctly-gendered body.
For example, this label would refer to a person in a male body who feels that
he should be female, or a person in a female body who feels she should be
male. You are asking about stereotypical qualities of the feminine and
masculine, not about whether the vamps are transgendered. I do not believe
*any* of the vamps are transgendered. Not one of them has discussed how
they feel they were born into an incorrectly-sexed body. Just thought it
was important to get one's definitions straight...
laura
www.homestar.org/bryannan
In article <9zfT3.666$AQ2....@news1.epix.net>,
Neige
That made me think, do we had some kind of proof that there was something
incestuous there? Was it somewhere clearly mentionned? I always wondered
that. Anyways, Gabrielle and Lestat had a kind of very complex relationship
that could hardly be called mother/son.
Neige
Faelinn
I started reading Anne Rice a few years ago, and have had simliar
discussions to this thread with one of my friends, who is also a VC fan...
of course we worded it differently, discussing the "homosexual undertones"
we perceived in the majority of the relationships in the story...
With time, I came to believe that our gender issues with the VC characters
are there because we are mortal, and we are applying our preconcieved ideas
to them... but the fact of the matter is that the way Anne Rice has
presented her vampire lore, these immortal creatures have no sexual contact,
as you or I would define it, because they are no longer biologically defined
by "male" or "female". Their physical intimacy is based on blood, and it's
exchange, be it with each other, or their chosen victim. It may well seems
erotic, the way that Anne describes it, but if it is, it isn't incestuous.
After all, the relationships her characters had with each other in life no
longer exists. And the roles that they choose to take on with each other as
vampires are simply that - a role - because there is no real heirachy.
My conclusions are that the change that has been observed in characters, as
they are turned over is only natural - for they are being transformed, and
subsequently letting go of all that defined and possibly restricted them in
their former nature...
Of course this is just my clumsy attempt to make sense of it all... you're
more than welcome to disagree!!!
Lisa Reynolds
don't think that they were specifically lovers in a physical sense, but
there was a definite mental connection and love that went beyond typical
mother/son relationships.
Lisa
Neige wrote in message <3qjT3.587$2K1....@weber.videotron.net>...
Lexi3981
>In the gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgendered community, this label means that
>the
>person in quesion does not believe they are in the correctly-gendered body.
>For example, this label would refer to a person in a male body who feels that
>
>he should be female, or a person in a female body who feels she should be
>male. You are asking about stereotypical qualities of the feminine and
>masculine, not about whether the vamps are transgendered. I do not believe
>*any* of the vamps are transgendered. Not one of them has discussed how
>they feel they were born into an incorrectly-sexed body. Just thought it
>was important to get one's definitions straight...
I just want to add that gender identity is something one is born with. It
has nothing to do with sexual orientation. It also has nothing to do with
sexual desire, as Faelinn pointed out, the vampires are asexual, they have no
sexual desires at all. I think that although they may have more freedom to
break out of the male and female roles society has set out for them,
ultimately, they still identify as either male or female.
Alexa
Ms. Daisy
used to. For them the actual act of sex is impossible and besides it is
only a pale shadow next to the lust and ecstasy of the kill and blood. Or
at least that's how Louis put it, not in the exact words of course. Wasn't
it determined that the vampires were bisexual so to speak in the sense that
they could fall in love with member of either sex, due to the fact that some
of them were already bisexual in life and that they can't be to limited
since there aren't that great of a vampire population? Just a thought.
-Daisy
Lexi3981 wrote in message
<19991101165455...@ng-ch1.aol.com>...
Ms. Daisy
Lisa Reynolds wrote in message
<7vkv9h$1l2s$1...@newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com>...
>They were mother and son but there was also something else about them. I
>don't think that they were specifically lovers in a physical sense, but
>there was a definite mental connection and love that went beyond typical
>mother/son relationships.
>Lisa
>
If I'm not mistaken, after Lestat made Gabrielle with his blood he had
said that he can never think of her as anything else but simply "Gabrielle"
again. I think after the whole process of giving her the dark gift, the
bond of mother and son was broken/taken away and replaced by the bond of
maker to fledgeing. I think he still called her mother in several instances
and she referred to him as her son, but it jsut wasn't that average family
relationship anymore. I guess for us it's a strange concept, but to quote
Louis in the movie, "might as well as heaven what it sees, no mortal can
ever know"
-Daisy (who probably has no idea what the hell she's
talking about, but is making a lame
attempt
anyway :p )
Lisa Reynolds
applies to Louis. He never thinks that he should be a woman instead of a
man. Not that I can see. If you have anything else, I'd love to hear it.
Again, thanks for setting us straight.
Lisa
Freaky ViVi
possible. Marius and Pandora had sex, this is clearly stated.....this was
after Marius was made a vampire, not sure if Pandora was already, but I
think so.
The sexual act is very different, and no mention (as far as I know) has been
made to actual sexual desire.....
Ms. Daisy <Lin_...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:7vl7vr$5lj$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net...
Gairid
>In the gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgendered community, this label means that
>the
>person in quesion does not believe they are in the correctly-gendered body.
>For example, this label would refer to a person in a male body who feels that
>
>he should be female, or a person in a female body who feels she should be
>male. You are asking about stereotypical qualities of the feminine and
>masculine, not about whether the vamps are transgendered. I do not believe
>*any* of the vamps are transgendered. Not one of them has discussed how
>they feel they were born into an incorrectly-sexed body. Just thought it
>was important to get one's definitions straight...
>
>laura
Hey Laure, thanks for checking in with that info. When I first read the
initial post, I wasn't quite sure how to respond, although I thought it had to
do with Vampires (in AR's world, anyway) being asexual, but capable of great
and enduring love for one another. I would not say that Louis or Lestat or
Gabrielle or any of the others has a "transgender" situation such as you have
described.
For myself, the rising above "mortal" sexual mores & prejudices in AR's
VC's is most refreshing, and is somehow comfortable to me. I like that the
love between the vampires in their many variations rises above what happens in
day to day mortal life. If only real life was so tolerant!
Gairid
"...Don't fall so in love with the night
that you lose your way!"
LdeL
Charmed One
> Hi,
>
> I'm new. Looking for discussion on Rice's gender representations in
> "Interview with the Vampire". Specifically, the effect of transgendered
> individuals such as Louis.
>
> Kato
Kato,
Where in Interview does Louis say he's transgender???
Crystal
~"The only power that exists is inside ourselves...."~Armand
http://members.tripod.com/~dawn-c/the-temple-of-words-html
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
LdyDisney
>possible. Marius and Pandora had sex, this is clearly stated.....this was
>after Marius was made a vampire, not sure if Pandora was already, but I
>think so.
>The sexual act is very different, and no mention (as far as I know) has been
>made to actual sexual desire.....
Actually, Pandora was a vampire, and she wanted Marius to "love her as a mortal
man" would even though he told her that it was not the same, he complied with
her wishes... SO yes, sex is possible although Anne specifically said the to
Marius his "organ" was simple another body part now, similar to an arm, but for
Pandora making love symbolized something more, I believe... She had loved him
and he had loved her for quite a long time before finally be reunited... I
think she needed that mortal love from him in order to "consummate" their
union.... IMO...
Lisa :)
http://members.xoom.com/LisasLair - Come & visit....
Vickie Locke
the Vampire", not "Pandora" or any of Rice's other novels. While I agree
with Laura that the male characters can not be considered "transgendered,"
in the sense that transgendered reflects those who do not believe they are
in the correctly-gendered body, I did feel that Louis and Armand mirrored a
blend of (what the dominant culture would refer to as) feminine and
masculine gender qualities. Rice's emphasis on gender-blended male
characters and homoeroticism leaves me with the uncomfortable feeling that,
once again, women are victims and that the essence of the feminine is
transferred to and appropriated by male characters in the novel.
If I'm being a nuisance by pursuing this thread, just let me know and I'll
exit the discussion group.
-- Kato
Freaky ViVi <v...@tweets.demon.nl> wrote in message
news:941518571.14576....@news.demon.nl...
> Actually, maybe you should read Pandora again, because sexual intercourse
is
> possible. Marius and Pandora had sex, this is clearly stated.....this was
> after Marius was made a vampire, not sure if Pandora was already, but I
> think so.
> The sexual act is very different, and no mention (as far as I know) has
been
> made to actual sexual desire.....
> Ms. Daisy <Lin_...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:7vl7vr$5lj$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net...
> > I think the vampires still desire others, just not sexually as we
are
> > used to. For them the actual act of sex is impossible and besides it is
> > only a pale shadow next to the lust and ecstasy of the kill and blood.
Or
> > at least that's how Louis put it, not in the exact words of course.
> Wasn't
> > it determined that the vampires were bisexual so to speak in the sense
> that
> > they could fall in love with member of either sex, due to the fact that
> some
> > of them were already bisexual in life and that they can't be to limited
> > since there aren't that great of a vampire population? Just a thought.
> > -Daisy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Lexi3981 wrote in message
> > <19991101165455...@ng-ch1.aol.com>...
> > >Laura wrote:
Vickie Locke
riana
only with the male characters, and I find the female characters to
be...almost petty. (for example, Gabrielle. And I've always scorned
Pandora, she seems to think very highly of herself and seems to be a
little shallow, to me. IMHO. no offense meant at all! I'm just giving my
opinion *g*
__riana
Laura Bryannan wrote:
> You've posed an interesting question, but I would look at it in a totally
> different way. I agree that the stereotypically "feminine" is appropriated
> by many of the male characters in IWTV and other VampChron novels. However,
> I happen to believe that this is one of the reasons women love these books
> and characters so much. It is taboo to love a woman, but it isn't taboo to
> love a "feminine" man. Even better that the vampires don't engage in human
> sex.
>
> So...we are left with an entire pantheon of characters women can fantasize
> and fall in love with with no fear of being "bad girls." After all, they're
> not fantasizing about being with another woman, nor are they even fantasizing
> about having sex. They fantasize about asexual characters or male characters
> with highly feminine qualities. These books are the ultimate "fag hag" read,
> IMHO. I say this as a woman married to a bisexual man--a woman who loves men
> enough to understand *totally* why men love men!
>
> I do not see women as victims in Anne's books, per se. The feminine is
> victimized soley due to Anne's inability to write in the female voice. I
> cannot think of any of her female characters--whether they be in the VampChron
> or not--that are as interesting and well-developed as the male ones. Rather
> than see the writing as some kind of conspiracy to subsume the feminine
> into the masculine, I see the writing soley as a reflection of Anne's own
> sexual fantasies. She has created a glorious way to love the feminine
> without invoking the lesbian taboo in her readers.
>
> laura
--
"all bleeding stops eventually"
"what can be imagined can be achieved"
Vickie Locke
Kato
riana <ria...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:38209F14...@yahoo.com...
Globalhead
>That's very interesting. I've never realized before that I identify
>only with the male characters, and I find the female characters to
>be...almost petty. (for example, Gabrielle. And I've always scorned
>Pandora, she seems to think very highly of herself and seems to be a
>little shallow, to me. IMHO. no offense meant at all! I'm just giving my
>opinion *g*
>
Pandora is probably my favorite Rice vampire. I'm fascinated by her. She's
every man's fantasy and every man's worst nightmare.
Larry, who just finished TVL and is wondering: how do you have a rock band
without a bassist?
"Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
Creeps in this petty place from day to day,
To the last syllable of recorded time;
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
The way to dusty death. Out, out brief candle.
Life's but a walking shadow; a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more; it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."
-- William Shakespeare.
ICQ No. 37523426
Creek
NO! not at all Faelin, you described it perfectly. I couldn't have
done better if I tried, personally.
Creek
Creek
>Actually, I am not speaking of "sex," only gender and only "Interview with
>the Vampire", not "Pandora" or any of Rice's other novels. While I agree
>with Laura that the male characters can not be considered "transgendered,"
>in the sense that transgendered reflects those who do not believe they are
>in the correctly-gendered body, I did feel that Louis and Armand mirrored a
>blend of (what the dominant culture would refer to as) feminine and
>masculine gender qualities. Rice's emphasis on gender-blended male
>characters and homoeroticism leaves me with the uncomfortable feeling that,
>once again, women are victims and that the essence of the feminine is
>transferred to and appropriated by male characters in the novel.
>
>If I'm being a nuisance by pursuing this thread, just let me know and I'll
>exit the discussion group.
>
>-- Kato
>
You're not Kato, I find it interesting and you've pointed out
something I never really thought about before with regard to the
novels. I think Anne once said that she has given them fem qualities
for two reason, one being that they are no longer mortals so they
transcend gender barriers, the other is that because they live by
night, she associates them more with the moon, which is a fem symbol.
By losing the daylight (Sun=masculine) they have become more feminine.
But be that as it may, to be fair to the author, there are female
characters that have masculine qualities as well.
Creek
Faelinn
to jump in... but the topic is just so interesting - and I find that all the
posts in this thread have good points.
Thanks for the encouragement!
Lexi3981
>That's very interesting. I've never realized before that I identify
>only with the male characters, and I find the female characters to
>be...almost petty. (for example, Gabrielle. And I've always scorned
>Pandora, she seems to think very highly of herself and seems to be a
>little shallow, to me. IMHO. no offense meant at all! I'm just giving my
>opinion *g*
>
I have always had trouble identifying with Anne's female characters too.
It seems to me that they start out strong but then they meet a man and they are
thrilled to give over control of their lives to him. I saw this in Pandora,
Rowan (tWH) and Lisa (Exit to Eden). Of course Pandora fought Marius a lot but
at the end she talks about being under the control of someone else for
centuries.
Alexa
Faelinn
character that I don't feel falls into this sort of "strong-willed woman
turned dependent on a male character" is Gabrielle, who is cold and
independent, as well as feared and completely misunderstood by the other
vampires.
Once again, she is difficult to identify with, which is why I also agree
with the previous posts about finding Anne's male character so much easier
to identify with.
Faelinn
fae...@hotmail.com
kayfa...@icqmail.com
Vickie Locke
did not...why?
Vic
Faelinn <kayfa...@icqmail.com> wrote in message
news:RakU3.37594$up3....@news21.bellglobal.com...
Faelinn
after having read it is hard to do now. I think it has to do with the way
that he is so compassionate, and guilt stricken about being a creature who
preys on human life. He made me feel sympathy toward him, and I think that
if it wasn't for Louis's voice in the beginning of the chronicles, I would
never have bothered to continue with the other books... granted that I grew
to like Lestat after absolutely hating the glimpse given of him through
Louis' eyes... but it was Louis who made me care for the vampires first.
The other characters kept my interst, but Louis is the tortured sole I felt
irresistably bound to (at first). I have to admit that I have moved away
from him since then, but he will always be thought of fondly, even if I find
his character weak and tragic now (in the newer books).
as an side note, I must say that I don't find him particularly feminine as
others have stated... sensitive, yes. Feminine, no.
ophe...@earthlink.net
Vickie Locke wrote:
> Did anyone identify with Louis in "Interview with the Vampire" and if you
> did not...why?
>
I identified very deeply with Louis - I WAS Louis when I read Interview.
Mostly, I understood his brooding, his respect for life and yet his hatered
of his own. I don't think a happy person could identify with Louis - they
might love him, but they could never really understand him. His character is
about trancending pain, saying "yes, it is there, and will be there tomorrow,
and in all probibility the day after that, and it is worth thinking about,
but it is not all that is worth thinking about." Am I making any sence?
~Sara, who obviously needs more sleep, but has yet anouther play opening next
week, just two weeks after the last one.
Gairid
>Mostly, I understood his brooding, his respect for life and yet his hatered
>of his own. I don't think a happy person could identify with Louis - they
>might love him, but they could never really understand him. His character is
>about trancending pain, saying "yes, it is there, and will be there tomorrow,
>and in all probibility the day after that, and it is worth thinking about,
>but it is not all that is worth thinking about." Am I making any sence?
>
>~Sara, who obviously needs more sleep, but has yet anouther play opening next
>week, just two weeks after the last one.
>
>
>
You make total sense, Sara. Louis, the vampire that is called "the weakest one,
the most human one", his strength is that he has remained as human as it is
possible to be in his state. To me, his weakness is really his strength, for is
it not Louis' essential "humanity" that makes the others love him, and wish to
protect him? They see in Louis all that they have lost, and they wish they had
even as much humanity as Louis has retained. So is he really so weak? Or has
he remained strong enough to hold on to the part of himself that is what all
the other vampires wish to retain? (well, maybe not all of them, but most if
them.) Now I feel that
I 'm not making sense.
Louis is a lot stonger than anyone thinks.
Charmed One
> as an side note, I must say that I don't find him particularly feminine as
> others have stated... sensitive, yes. Feminine, no.
In all these years, that's something I'd never thought about,Louis feminine.
Hmmm...I see some of the other immortals as feminine. But not Louis. That's
interesting... You're totally right!! *bells go off in head*
Creek
>Did anyone identify with Louis in "Interview with the Vampire" and if you
>did not...why?
>
>Vic
Too weak and whiny. I can't deal with whining...as soon as someone I'm
talking too starts whiny, my brain just shuts down.
But I didn't to connect with Lestat either. If anything I connected
with Claudia the first time I read the book.
Creek
Creek
>You make total sense, Sara. Louis, the vampire that is called "the weakest one,
>the most human one", his strength is that he has remained as human as it is
>possible to be in his state. To me, his weakness is really his strength, for is
>it not Louis' essential "humanity" that makes the others love him, and wish to
>protect him? They see in Louis all that they have lost, and they wish they had
>even as much humanity as Louis has retained. So is he really so weak? Or has
>he remained strong enough to hold on to the part of himself that is what all
>the other vampires wish to retain? (well, maybe not all of them, but most if
>them.) Now I feel that
>I 'm not making sense.
>
>Louis is a lot stonger than anyone thinks.
>
>
> Gairid
> "...Don't fall so in love with the night
> that you lose your way!"
> LdeL
That was beautiful, Gairid. I never really thought about it before,
but I have to agree with you. I guess it depends on which perspective
you are coming from, or maybe one just has to be a Louis lover to see
that side.
Creek
Gairid
>That was beautiful, Gairid. I never really thought about it before,
>but I have to agree with you. I guess it depends on which perspective
>you are coming from, or maybe one just has to be a Louis lover to see
>that side.
>Creek
Thanks, Creek. I guess I get a little passionate about Louis.
*g*
riana
lost all respect for her, even though she has no strength around him. Maybe I
don't like her because she hurt Michael so much.
__riana
Lexi3981 wrote:
--
riana
__riana, wondering why she never understands herself
ophe...@earthlink.net wrote:
> I identified very deeply with Louis - I WAS Louis when I read Interview.
> Mostly, I understood his brooding, his respect for life and yet his hatered
> of his own. I don't think a happy person could identify with Louis - they
> might love him, but they could never really understand him. His character is
> about trancending pain, saying "yes, it is there, and will be there tomorrow,
> and in all probibility the day after that, and it is worth thinking about,
> but it is not all that is worth thinking about." Am I making any sence?
>
> ~Sara, who obviously needs more sleep, but has yet anouther play opening next
> week, just two weeks after the last one.
--
riana
> You make total sense, Sara. Louis, the vampire that is called "the weakest one,
> the most human one", his strength is that he has remained as human as it is
> possible to be in his state. To me, his weakness is really his strength, for is
> it not Louis' essential "humanity" that makes the others love him, and wish to
> protect him? They see in Louis all that they have lost, and they wish they had
> even as much humanity as Louis has retained. So is he really so weak? Or has
> he remained strong enough to hold on to the part of himself that is what all
> the other vampires wish to retain? (well, maybe not all of them, but most if
> them.) Now I feel that
> I 'm not making sense.
>
> Louis is a lot stonger than anyone thinks.
>
> Gairid
> "...Don't fall so in love with the night
> that you lose your way!"
> LdeL
that is why I love Louis so much, second only to mon Armand
__riana
Charmed One
> >I identified very deeply with Louis - I WAS Louis when I read Interview.
> >Mostly, I understood his brooding, his respect for life and yet his hatered
> >of his own. I don't think a happy person could identify with Louis - they
> >might love him, but they could never really understand him. His character is
> >about trancending pain, saying "yes, it is there, and will be there tomorrow,
> >and in all probibility the day after that, and it is worth thinking about,
> >but it is not all that is worth thinking about." Am I making any sence?
> >~Sara, who obviously needs more sleep, but has yet anouther play opening next
> >week, just two weeks after the last one.
> You make total sense, Sara. Louis, the vampire that is called "the weakest one,
> the most human one", his strength is that he has remained as human as it is
> possible to be in his state. To me, his weakness is really his strength, for is
> it not Louis' essential "humanity" that makes the others love him, and wish to
> protect him? They see in Louis all that they have lost, and they wish they had
> even as much humanity as Louis has retained. So is he really so weak? Or has
> he remained strong enough to hold on to the part of himself that is what all
> the other vampires wish to retain? (well, maybe not all of them, but most if
> them.) Now I feel that
> I 'm not making sense.
>
> Louis is a lot stonger than anyone thinks. Gairid
Both of you are making SOOO much sense!!!! I couldn't have said that better
myself!! (Louis would love you for that.) I remember when I first read
Interview about ten years back and I was in a really low period in my life.
And believe it or not Louis' strength was a part of my healing process.
Even though he despairs at times about his existence and what he has to do to
exist,he never pretends to be something he not. And when he talks, people
listen because we all know what he's saying is important and he's not just
talking to hear himself talk,you know? Just me ramblin'...
Crystal-Louis' other musketeer
Neige
I never liked Louis but i never thought one second that he was weak, he is
surely not. It's just his personality who is incompatible with me. I saw
the movie before reading the book and i clearly remember not liking Louis
(neither Lestat btw ;)). I was seing Louis as the blind one. He refuses
something so much that he succeeded to convince him that its false. In my
humble opinion, Louis was pretty blind concerning Claudia, i mean, how could
he accept her behavior and not Lestat's? I think that he continues to look
trough life, at him and at others still with mortal eyes, but he is not
mortal anymore. You can't keep the same values, the same perception of life
when you become a vampire cose its doesn't fit. I oftenly think Louis is
just sad character who will prolly live a very long time but he will be
unhappy all his life (or death? thats confusing). I don't think he can ever
really love a vampire and get into any relationship...
hmm, maybe i lost the topic there, sorry ;)
Neige
LdyDisney
>>did not...why?
>>
>>Vic
>
>Too weak and whiny. I can't deal with whining...as soon as someone I'm
>talking too starts whiny, my brain just shuts down.
>But I didn't to connect with Lestat either. If anything I connected
>with Claudia the first time I read the book.
>Creek
I'm with you Creek.... I don't handle whining and depression well... I didn;t
read IWTV first, so I already loved Lestat which I'm sure didn't help me find
pity for poor Louis either... However, I have never thought he was weak...
Didn't my love, Marius once say that Louis may indeed be the strongest of them
all???
riana
after becoming a vampire. He lived on rats for months. It is very easy to
admire him for retaining what he learned in human life, even though his very
nature demands that he murders people every night of his existence. Louis is
beautiful. And as for Claudia...Lestat gave her the dark gift to keep Louis
with him, because Louis felt like her father--he was responsible for her, he was
adoring, he loved her. Parents are often times blind to the faults of their
children. Louis did eventually understand why Claudia had to die, and I hope
that he was grateful, but first he had to get over teh pain of losing her. She
gave him absolute love, something he missed very much from mortal life, and
Lestat did not show his love for Louis--I don't even think that Louis realized
Stat loved him till after IWTV.
__riana, throwing her $.02 freely to the crowd
Neige wrote:
--
riana
riana wrote:
> What makes Louis so strong is that he is able to retain his mortalness even
> after becoming a vampire.
hmm...did I actually use the word "mortalness"? it's a new word from my personalized
dictionary
__riana feeling slightly fatuous
riana
LdyDisney wrote:
brownie points to Marius for supporting mon Louis
__riana
Neige
riana a écrit dans le message <38275EAD...@yahoo.com>...
>What makes Louis so strong is that he is able to retain his mortalness even
>admire him for retaining what he learned in human life, even though his
very
>nature demands that he murders people every night of his existence. Louis
is
>beautiful. And as for Claudia...Lestat gave her the dark gift to keep Louis
>with him, because Louis felt like her father--he was responsible for her,
he was
>adoring, he loved her. Parents are often times blind to the faults of their
>children. Louis did eventually understand why Claudia had to die, and I
hope
>that he was grateful, but first he had to get over teh pain of losing her.
She
>gave him absolute love, something he missed very much from mortal life, and
>Lestat did not show his love for Louis--I don't even think that Louis
realized
>Stat loved him till after IWTV.
yes, its strong to act like that but a bit sad IMHO. He is not mortal
anymore, whats the point to continue acting like one? I guess its just a
point of view and Louis is doing what he feels he should do and its ok like
that.
Neige
Lexi3981
>>Did anyone identify with Louis in "Interview with the Vampire" and if you
>>did not...why?
>>
>>Vic
Creek wrote:
>Too weak and whiny. I can't deal with whining...as soon as someone I'm
>talking too starts whiny, my brain just shuts down.
>But I didn't to connect with Lestat either. If anything I connected
>with Claudia the first time I read the book.
>Creek
I agree with you, Creek. I saw Louis, the narrator, as the one with whom
the reader would most naturally identify. He is the one who represents how we
- humans - would react if we were faced with a vampire and the transformation
he offered. I got lost when Louis started complaining about his new life.
Obviously I can't speak from the point of view of someone who is actually a
vampire but being eternally young, beautiful and healthy with all sorts of
interesting gifts seems like a pretty good deal in life (or unlife). If he
feels so guilty about killing people, so disgusted with himself for being
morally bereft, then he should just kill himself. Is it really heroic to say
"I am bad bad bad for killing people" and then to keep on doing it?
I know a lot of people are going to disagree with me. In my own defense,
I haven't read Interview in a while.
Alexa
Creek
I agree with you, Creek. I saw Louis, the narrator, as the one
with whom
>the reader would most naturally identify. He is the one who represents how we
>- humans - would react if we were faced with a vampire and the transformation
>he offered. I got lost when Louis started complaining about his new life.
>Obviously I can't speak from the point of view of someone who is actually a
>vampire but being eternally young, beautiful and healthy with all sorts of
>interesting gifts seems like a pretty good deal in life (or unlife). If he
>feels so guilty about killing people, so disgusted with himself for being
>morally bereft, then he should just kill himself. Is it really heroic to say
>"I am bad bad bad for killing people" and then to keep on doing it?
> I know a lot of people are going to disagree with me. In my own defense,
>I haven't read Interview in a while.
>
>Alexa
My thoughts exactly, but before the Louis-lovers come brashing down my
door, let me just say that when Louis does do something he does it
BIG. I'm thinking of when he burned down the theater. Also, when
Lestat came to see him in mortal form and he just about kills him and
Mojo. Like I said, Louis doesn't do much, but when he does, its a
kicker.
Creek
Gairid
>read IWTV first, so I already loved Lestat which I'm sure didn't help me find
>pity for poor Louis either... However, I have never thought he was weak...
>Didn't my love, Marius once say that Louis may indeed be the strongest of
>them
>all???
>Lisa :)
>http://members.xoom.com/LisasLair - Come & visit....
:::tapping foot impatiently:::
What have I told you about the whining epithet?? Listen to Marius, he's very
wise.
Harumph!
(Wishing everyone would PLEASE stop picking at Louis)
LdyDisney
>>after becoming a vampire.
>yes, its strong to act like that but a bit sad IMHO. He is not mortal
>anymore, whats the point to continue acting like one? I guess its just a
>point of view and Louis is doing what he feels he should do and its ok like
>that.
>
>
>Neige
Well, I have wondered the same thing... I mean shouldn;t he move on st some
point? It can;t be good for you to remain depressed over lost mortality
forever... It won't make him mortal again...
Creek
>
>Well, I have wondered the same thing... I mean shouldn;t he move on st some
>point? It can;t be good for you to remain depressed over lost mortality
>forever... It won't make him mortal again...
>Lisa :)
>http://members.xoom.com/LisasLair - Come & visit....
You said that with so much compassion, Lisa. Hey, I think I've found
a great therapist for Louis!!! Mmuch more compassion than I have...."
"Suck it up, Louis, quit you're bitching, and get the hell over it!!!"
See that I mean, much more compassion. :-)
Creek
Creek
>>I'm with you Creek.... I don't handle whining and depression well... I didn;t
>>read IWTV first, so I already loved Lestat which I'm sure didn't help me find
>>pity for poor Louis either... However, I have never thought he was weak...
>>Didn't my love, Marius once say that Louis may indeed be the strongest of
>>them all???
>>Lisa :)
I hated Lestat in Interview, I thought for sure he'd be offed before
the end the story. The bad guy always ends up that way. Imagine my
shock when it was Claudia, the one I actually could relate to at that
point in my life. I was actuallly pissed that Lestat didn't meet the
light of day.
Creek
Gairid
>> after becoming a vampire.
>
>personalized
>dictionary
>
>__riana feeling slightly fatuous
>--
makes up for using "mortalness"!
Please be more careful, or you will be subject to a blistering jobation.
HRH, Gairid
LdyDisney
>
>HRH, Gairid
>
Again... this is supposed to DIScourage her... right? *winks*
LdyDisney
>>point? It can;t be good for you to remain depressed over lost mortality
>>forever... It won't make him mortal again...
>a great therapist for Louis!!! Mmuch more compassion than I have...."
>"Suck it up, Louis, quit you're bitching, and get the hell over it!!!"
>See that I mean, much more compassion. :-)
>Creek
Heehee... They don;t call me The Royal Shrink for nothing.... LOL :-)
Lexi3981
Creek wrote:
>I hated Lestat in Interview, I thought for sure he'd be offed before
>the end the story. The bad guy always ends up that way. Imagine my
>shock when it was Claudia, the one I actually could relate to at that
>point in my life. I was actuallly pissed that Lestat didn't meet the
>light of day.
>Creek
You didn't think that what happened to Lestat at the end was almost worse
than death? I thought it was a horrible end for him, sitting there just a
pathetic old thing.
Alexa
riana
LdyDisney wrote:
> >Please be more careful, or you will be subject to a blistering jobation.
> >
> >HRH, Gairid
> >
>
> Again... this is supposed to DIScourage her... right? *winks*
> Lisa :)
> http://members.xoom.com/LisasLair - Come & visit....
who says that I need encouragement? :D
riana
Creek wrote:
> gai...@aol.comnojunk (Gairid) wrote:
>
> >>I'm with you Creek.... I don't handle whining and depression well... I didn;t
> >>read IWTV first, so I already loved Lestat which I'm sure didn't help me find
> >>pity for poor Louis either... However, I have never thought he was weak...
> >>Didn't my love, Marius once say that Louis may indeed be the strongest of
> >>them all???
> >>Lisa :)
>
> I hated Lestat in Interview, I thought for sure he'd be offed before
> the end the story. The bad guy always ends up that way. Imagine my
> shock when it was Claudia, the one I actually could relate to at that
> point in my life. I was actuallly pissed that Lestat didn't meet the
> light of day.
> Creek
>
> :tapping foot impatiently:::
> >>What have I told you about the whining epithet?? Listen to Marius, he's very
> >wise.
> >>Harumph!
> >>(Wishing everyone would PLEASE stop picking at Louis)
> >> Gairid
> > "...Don't fall so in love with the night
> > that you lose your way!"
> > LdeL
I was so enamored with Louis in IWTV that I hated Lestat just because he did. But
after reading the VC many times, I can't hate Lestat anymore, but Louis is still
the only vampire for me (besides Armand, of course)
Creek
>Interview with the Vampire Spoiler
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Creek wrote:
>>I hated Lestat in Interview, I thought for sure he'd be offed before
>>the end the story. The bad guy always ends up that way. Imagine my
>>shock when it was Claudia, the one I actually could relate to at that
>>point in my life. I was actuallly pissed that Lestat didn't meet the
>>light of day.
>>Creek
>
> You didn't think that what happened to Lestat at the end was almost worse
>than death? I thought it was a horrible end for him, sitting there just a
>pathetic old thing.
>
>Alexa
Nope, nothing short of the light of day, at that point in time would
have been enough for me. But being the consumate Lestat-lover that I
am, I awfully glad he didn't.
Creek