Most DISGUSTING NASTY TASTELESS Thing in rices book
Laura S. Bryannan
wrote:
>The vampire series IS a bloody gory series BUT, one scene went so far
>beyond the tasteless that I almost puked.
>
>Is there ANYTHING in Anne Rice's books half as disgusting as when lestat
>sucks the bllod from Dora's vaginal area, and even sucks the blood from
>the tampoons??
>That was just so disgusting!! That is about the grossest thing I can even
>imagine!!
I agree with you *wholeheartedly* on this one! I can't
believe she did this to Lestat. I remember her saying way
back when that Memnoch would be her last vamp book from
Lestat's perspective because he had "left her." Well,
considering how she completely trashed his character in
this book, I get the impression she was quite upset at him
for "leaving" her! She re-wrote him into a completely
different character, and this was evidence of it. The
pre-Memnoch Lestat would *never* have swooned over Dora
(or should I say Anne) the way he did.
Laura
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Who, if I cried out, would hear me among the angels' hierarchies?
And even if one of them pressed me suddenly against his heart:
I would be consumed in that overwhelming existence.
For beauty is nothing but the beginning of terror,
Which we are just able to endure,
And we are so awed because it serenely disdains to annihilate us.
Every angel is terrifying.
--Rainer Maria Rilke
Laura Bryannan
la...@isp.nwu.edu
http://thor.isp.nwu.edu/~laura/index.html
angela stinson
>imagine!!
are you sure? :>
morose
Renee Sweeney
>The vampire series IS a bloody gory series BUT, one scene went so far
>beyond the tasteless that I almost puked.
>
>Is there ANYTHING in Anne Rice's books half as disgusting as when lestat
>sucks the bllod from Dora's vaginal area, and even sucks the blood from
>the tampoons??
>
>imagine!!
Not to be a "me too" kinda girl, but I was wondering if I would
see this brought up. I have been following the debate of
"Memnoch" and whether it sucks or not, and personally, I LOVED
the book, but this part is one that I *hated!* I was really
surprised when Anne did this. Perhaps there are really grosser
things that have been done, but this was unnecessary, IMHO. I
have been trying to get my Mom to read this book, (she started it
and got "scared" cause of the religious overtones) and this was
the only part that really gave me pause in recommending it to
her. I thought "this will be too gross" and she'll think "what
kind of trash is my daughter reading?" Unfortunately, this is not
a problem now cause I can't get her to continue reading it. She
thinks it's sacreligious or something. I was brought up in a
"holy-roller" family and I feel kinda bad for her cause I know
she's really dying to read it, but feels like she may be
betraying God or something if she does.
I've seen a lot of people attacking the style and form of the
book, but not many are discussing the actual content in relation
to God and the Devil and their roles therein. Are there other
people out there who shun this book because they're offended by
Anne's views? Personally, I found it extremely thought-provoking
and fascinating- not offensive at all.
Anyway, these are just MHOs of course.
C-yall later-
Renee' S. (in Dallas, where Spring is trying to spring...)
Frank Yao
>CS80...@mcs.csuhayward.edu (STEVE)
>>sucks the bllod from Dora's vaginal area, and even sucks the blood from
>>the tampoons??
>>That was just so disgusting!! That is about the grossest thing I can even
>>imagine!!
I'm sure that if you try to be a little bit more imaginative, you can
think of something even more disgusting. Go ahead and try. ;)
The thing I wondered about this scene is the drinking of dead blood.
I thought that was a Bad Thing (tm) and was to be avoided. I don't
know that much about the female cycles, but I was under the impression
that by the time the blood got to there, vaginal or tampoon, it was
'dead' blood.
>She re-wrote him into a completely
>different character, and this was evidence of it. The
>pre-Memnoch Lestat would *never* have swooned over Dora
>(or should I say Anne) the way he did.
I don't know if 'completely different character' is the right phrase
to use. She just showed a side of him that wasn't there before, or
was, but we weren't paying much attention. I mean, could you say that
she re-wrote Armand into a completely different character for his
actions at the end of the book, or was it just something that was part
of that character that didn't come out until the circumstances
prompted it to?
- frank
--
****** Frank Yao, fy...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca ***************************
* What if God was one of us? Just a slob like one of us? *
* - "One of Us" by Joan Osborne *
****************************** http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~fyao ******
Lady
>From: CS80...@mcs.csuhayward.edu (STEVE)
>Subject: Most DISGUSTING NASTY TASTELESS Thing in rices book
>Date: 13 Mar 1996 05:24:21 GMT
>The vampire series IS a bloody gory series BUT, one scene went so far
>beyond the tasteless that I almost puked.
>Is there ANYTHING in Anne Rice's books half as disgusting as when lestat
>sucks the bllod from Dora's vaginal area, and even sucks the blood from
>the tampoons??
>That was just so disgusting!! That is about the grossest thing I can even
>imagine!!
Why don't I remember this?
Deb
Frank Yao
>
>I've seen a lot of people attacking the style and form of the
>book, but not many are discussing the actual content in relation
>to God and the Devil and their roles therein. Are there other
>people out there who shun this book because they're offended by
>Anne's views? Personally, I found it extremely thought-provoking
>and fascinating- not offensive at all.
I don't think the book is offensive because it had many interesting
theological questions and Anne's attempts at answers (which I disagree
with BTW). However, I can see someone in the Christian right getting
very offended because the image of God presented is not their image of
God - nevermind the fact that it was presented by the Devil.
There was a question posted in a similar thread many moons ago that
asked whether or not Lestat was really doing what Memnoch wanted. I
would answer 'yes', not because what he did will help get people out
of Sheol, but because his bringing back of the veil made many people
believe in God for all the wrong reasons, hence (from a Christian POV)
taking away their opportunity to 'be saved' (again, from a
relatively basic Christian POV).
- frank (back, but does anyone care?)
STEVE
AcademyNS
I disagree with the prevailing take on the scene. The only thing that
bugged me about it was that Lestat himself described the act as
"unspeakable".
People, HE'S A VAMPIRE!!! They drink BLOOD! What was startling about that
scene is not that it happened but that it took as long as it did to occur!
You noticed, didn't you, that the topic was never even MENTIONED until
"MtD", five books and nineteen years into the series?
The Brat Queen
> - frank (back, but does anyone care?)
Of *course* we do! Hello, Frank. Nice to have ya back. =)
Laura Ann (a.k.a. Mrs. Wicked One)
-----
"You shouldn't have damaged the desk. You shouldn't have done that."
--Finney
Frank Yao
>Of *course* we do! Hello, Frank. Nice to have ya back. =)
>
>Laura Ann (a.k.a. Mrs. Wicked One)
Ahhh... gawrsh... Laura, wicked lover and ghosts and chains, still
crazy after all this time.. :) Now, maybe I can get the next chapter
of my X-Files/IWTV cross-over out. :)
- frank
RubyEuropa
>to God and the Devil and their roles therein. Are there other
>people out there who shun this book because they're offended by
>Anne's views?
Not offended by Anne's views at all (I grew up Catholic, too).
Ruby
Adonia1
(RubyEuropa) writes:
>>to God and the Devil and their roles therein. Are there other
>>people out there who shun this book because they're offended by
>>Anne's views?
>
>Not offended by Anne's views at all (I grew up Catholic, too).
I wasn't offended in the least. In fact, reading the book helped me to
answer alot of my own questions about God and the Devil. I didn't grow up
Catholic or anything else; religion was something my parents left open for
my brother's and I to discover on our own. I'm glad they did, but it took
me nearly 29 years to find the answers I was looking for...and it took
Anne Rice to help me find them. <G>
I'm not saying I agree 100% with everything she wrote, but so many of my
questions made sense after I read what she had to say.
"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*
"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"
Adonia
^^v^"^v^^ Let the
wind control the blood
Lady of the Lion's Gate As it streams
down my face,
Aide de Campe to Contessa Cindy there to lie congealed
Minion to Claudia Never
finishing its race.
Guardian of the Sacred Nutella (Street
Lamps...)
------>--'--,-<@
--Bridget Wagner
"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*
"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"
Adonia1
>>>to God and the Devil and their roles therein. Are there other
>>>people out there who shun this book because they're offended by
>>>Anne's views?
>>
>>Not offended by Anne's views at all (I grew up Catholic, too).
I wasn't offended in the least. In fact, reading the book helped me to
answer alot of my own questions about God and the Devil. I didn't grow up
Catholic or anything else; religion was something my parents left open for
my brother's and I to discover on our own. I'm glad they did, but it took
me nearly 29 years to find the answers I was looking for...and it took
Anne Rice to help me find them. <G>
I'm not saying I agree 100% with everything she wrote, but so many of my
questions made sense after I read what she had to say.
"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"*"
Stark
whether you find the menstrual blood drinking thing to be disgusting or
not... especially since we don't seem at all bothered by the vampires
themselves going about killing people by the thousands and drinking their
blood... but I found it to be really disgusting as well.
Stark
JoAnne Soper-Cook
FRAAAAAAAANK! You're BAAAAAACK! Oh *kisskisskisshughughug* So nice to see
you again...well, virtually see you...
More X-Files! *HUG* Go 4 it...
--
JoAnne Soper-Cook
-------------------
"Go ahead--shoot. Be a helluva lot easier than getting out of this snowsuit."
'Due South'
The Brat Queen
> Ahhh... gawrsh... Laura, wicked lover and ghosts and chains, still
> crazy after all this time.. :) Now, maybe I can get the next chapter
I like to think I've been able to improve on my craziness. Oh, sure,
it's been hard... getting up everyday, smaking myself with a rubber
chicken but dammit you've GOT to be dedicated to things like this or one
day BOOM! you're sane and *then* where are you? I ask ya....
> of my X-Files/IWTV cross-over out. :)
Cool! New chapters are always welcome, but of course =)
Laura Ann (a.k.a. Mrs. Wicked One)
The Brat Queen
Um, didn't delete the name but for some reason Victoria's name wasn't in
the attribution.
> Correct! And the reason why he drank of her blood that way was
> explained in the book. It is a way for a vampire who is weak and in
> need of blood to drink without killing its victim. It wasnt my
> favorite part of the book, but if memory serves me, there was a lead up
> to that whole scene...
> V*
However it didn't make any sense on two counts:
1. If Stat (or any vampire) was so weak that they couldn't control
themselves enough for a "little drink" then there is no way the small
amount of menstrual blood would have satisfied them enough to do the job.
2. So little of menstrual fluid is actual blood. I'll avoid the nasty
details for our squeamish male readers ;) but you females know what I'm
talking about. That is not pure blood by any stretch of the
imagination.
Yes Anne (via Stat) put in something of an "Yeah it's ok" explanation but
I rank this one up there with the time Marius said he got his blue eyes
from his mother - basically a showing of how Anne doesn't know basic biology.
Plus - and this just occured to me - but if anyone ever had a need to
drink human blood without killing, it's *Louis*. Wouldn't he have
discovered this back in IWTV when he was weaning himself off animals?
Things that make you go hmm...
AcademyNS
"almost puked" at that scene, what are you going to do when your wife asks
you to witness the birth of your child?
gimli@jb7@dorsai.org
Actually, this makes me crave a medium-rare steak!
Uhmm good!
Jon B.
Carter Tune
wrote:
>In article <CS805-06-120...@10.0.2.15>
CS80...@mcs.csuhayward.edu (STEVE) writes:
>>From: CS80...@mcs.csuhayward.edu (STEVE)
>>Subject: Most DISGUSTING NASTY TASTELESS Thing in rices book
>>Date: 13 Mar 1996 05:24:21 GMT
>
>>beyond the tasteless that I almost puked.
>
>>Is there ANYTHING in Anne Rice's books half as disgusting as when
lestat
>>sucks the bllod from Dora's vaginal area, and even sucks the blood
from
>>the tampoons??
>
>>That was just so disgusting!! That is about the grossest thing I can
even
>>imagine!!
This
never!never!never!never!never!never!never!never!never!never!never!never
!never!never!never!never!never!never!never!never!never!never!never!neve
r!never!never!never!never!never!never!never!never!never!never!never!nev
er!never!never!never!never!never!never!never!never!never!never!never!ne
ver!never!never!never!never!never!never!never!never!never!never!never!n
ever!never!never!never!never!never!never!never!never!never!never!never!
never!never!never!never!never!never!never!never!
HAPPENED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What kind of drugs are you on!
Serina Caprice
DeNece Dugan
writes:
>
>>People, HE'S A VAMPIRE!!! They drink BLOOD! What was startling about
>that
>>scene is not that it happened but that it took as long as it did to
>occur!
>>You noticed, didn't you, that the topic was never even MENTIONED
until
>>"MtD", five books and nineteen years into the series?
>
>explained in the book. It is a way for a vampire who is weak and in
>need of blood to drink without killing its victim. It wasnt my
>favorite part of the book, but if memory serves me, there was a lead
up
>to that whole scene...
>V*
REALLY? He's got to find a woman with a heavy flow then, wouldn't
(s)he? :o ;>
DeNece Dugan
Really? I didn't grow up in a particularly religious family either but
I've thought deeper, scarier thoughts about God and the Devil than this
book explored
Ruth Bygrave
>>The vampire series IS a bloody gory series BUT, one scene went so far
>>beyond the tasteless that I almost puked.
>
>>Is there ANYTHING in Anne Rice's books half as disgusting as when lestat
>>sucks the bllod from Dora's vaginal area, and even sucks the blood from
>>the tampoons??
Not everybody is as totally squicked by menstrual blood as you seem to
be. I realise that many people in the UK/US are brought up to have a
hang-up about it, but your attitude isn't quite universal. Some women
feel "dirty" or embarrassed when they menstruate. Some feel physical
pain. Some feel sexually aroused. Some don't feel anything in
particular about it.
I think Anne Rice did rather well w/ the subject - although I was
surprised that she didn't make it an overtly sexual act. I found it
rather moving. It's a cautious joining between two very different
forms of eroticism: a human act would culminate in orgasm, and a
vampire one in death for the victim; but this is as much healing and
gentleness they can achieve together without the "invasion" of the
fangs.
Think about your attitude: do you really think that the spilling of
blood in fear, pain or death is "clean" while the monthly flow of
blood every woman alive experiences at some time is disgusting enough
to make you vomit?
Regards, \/\/oof
M&V
writes:
>
>Renee Sweeney <renee_...@nt.com> saideth:
>
>
>>to God and the Devil and their roles therein. Are there other
>>people out there who shun this book because they're offended by
>>Anne's views?
Anne's views? It is fiction for Goddess's sake!
In an interview on Much Music (Toronto) Anne said she didnt have any
reprecutions from the "church" regarding Memnoch the Devil. A Catholic
Priest came to a Memnoch signing and thanked Anne for her book and gave
her HIS book to read.
Victoria*
>
>
The Brat Queen
I'm no med student but I'm pretty sure that at the time of birth, at no
point is the father asked if he'd like a glass.
Pandora's Box
would read it until I finish this semester. If that is what Lastat is
running around doing I think I'll wait. How about the second most
disgusiting thing......Makare eating Akashas brains! I also have a query
if Mekere can use new eyes from her captors why can't they get poor
Mekere a toungue? Just pondering.....
SEJ
AcademyNS
Stop it! Stop it all of you! I can't reach the keys, I'm laughing so
hard.....
<He might have given her a hysterectormy without meaning to.>
Well, it's nice that he has a skill to fall back on, isn't it? (Oh, my,
I'm laughing again, as the vision of Lestat with a uterus attached to his
mouth fills my brain...!)
STEVE
Naw, we wont flame you for wanting Lestat to suck up the waste from your
menstral period. I mean some people like to have a guy shit in there
mouth or pee in there mouth and they then dine on it. Not exactly
healthy, but to each there own, ya know what I mean? Hey as far as I am
concerned, just make a new group called alt.sex.oralsex.with.menstralwaste
> Thank you! I just finished the book a few weeks ago, and I knew if I
> came out to this newsgroup somebody'd be griping about that scene.
> Wanna hear something that'll really sick the rest of you out? I
> *loved* that scene. It... *worked* for me, personally. How many other
> women out there saw it as an incredible opportunity for sexual
> intimacy with Lestat? Anyone? Am I all alone? I daresay not--I suspect
> it's what she had in mind when she wrote it. But I did enjoy
> everyone's outragious imagery (the doctor handing the father a glass!
> LOL!). Sorry. Just have to know if I'm the sickest woman on earth or
> what. Flame away if you want but know right now: I won't be impressed
> with arguments as to why I'm a pervert--my opinion stands.
>
>
> ~ange noir~
STEVE
What drugs are you on? This thread has about 20 people discussing there
views on this scene and you say it didnt even happen? I guess we are all
hallucinating about the same thing then ey?
Debbie Horcoff
><Then Armand or David would have to give him the Heimlich>
>Stop it! Stop it all of you! I can't reach the keys, I'm laughing so
>hard.....
><He might have given her a hysterectomy without meaning to.>
>Well, it's nice that he has a skill to fall back on, isn't it? (Oh, my,
>I'm laughing again, as the vision of Lestat with a uterus attached to his
>mouth fills my brain...!)
Finally, a vampire with a career! Possible sequel, "Interview with the
Gynecologist"
**Oh Dr. Lestat, I so look forward to our monthly visits!
**As do I, ma chere...mmmm....wait, did I not tell you to use the
NON-deodorant brand!!? Ughh, Mon Dieu--baby-powder scented!<swoon>
The Thing
> la...@azstarnet.com (Lady) wrote:
>
> >>The vampire series IS a bloody gory series BUT, one scene went so far
> >>beyond the tasteless that I almost puked.
> >
> >>Is there ANYTHING in Anne Rice's books half as disgusting as when lestat
> >>sucks the bllod from Dora's vaginal area, and even sucks the blood from
> >>the tampoons??
>
<Snip>
> I think Anne Rice did rather well w/ the subject - although I was
> surprised that she didn't make it an overtly sexual act. I found it
> rather moving. It's a cautious joining between two very different
> forms of eroticism: a human act would culminate in orgasm,
Correction- that COULD result in orgasm- if he was stimulating her clitoris.
> Think about your attitude: do you really think that the spilling of
> blood in fear, pain or death is "clean" while the monthly flow of
> blood every woman alive experiences at some time is disgusting enough
> to make you vomit?
There may be a few reasons: blood spilled by wounds isn't always
considered "clean", and menstrual 'blood' isn't 'blood'- there are other
materials in there, as well. Very little of it is real blood, in fact.
I learned this in 5th grade, when all the girls were sent for that
'special presentation' with the school nurse. Why do people seem so
confused about this? And how do spill blood in fear?
> Regards, \/\/oof
+----Catherine Johnson -------------- c...@flamestrike.hacks.arizona.edu----+
| "Well the music's bad, but at least it's drowning out the dialogue." |
| -Tom Servo, _Mystery_Science_Theater_3000_ |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
The Brat Queen
> <I'm no pre med student but I;m pretty sure that at the time of birth at
> no point is the father asked if he'd like a glass>
>
> Oh, GAWD...!!!. Stop, it hurts...I can't laugh anymore. Laura Ann, that
> was undoubtedly the FUNNIEST comment I've yet encountered on this board!
Cut it out! My ego over this one is large enough, thanks ;)
The Brat Queen
> What drugs are you on? This thread has about 20 people discussing there
> views on this scene and you say it didnt even happen? I guess we are all
> hallucinating about the same thing then ey?
Hey, I'm willing to say Memnoch the paperweight never happened if
everyone else is. After all, if we *all* deny it, who's gonna correct
us? Reality, after all, is such a subjective thing and....
Well Steph's the philo person so I'll let her deal with the technicalities.
Though I have to admit I get a sadistic kick out of thinking of how
confused newbies would be if we all catagorically denied the existance of
MtP.
But I could still use more sleep ;)
Kinet Chi
rbyg...@anglianet.co.ukŽ says...
:>Not everybody is as totally squicked by menstrual blood as you seem to
:>be. I realise that many people in the UK/US are brought up to have
:>a hang-up about it, but your attitude isn't quite universal. Some women
:>feel "dirty" or embarrassed when they menstruate. Some feel physical
[snip]
:>Think about your attitude: do you really think that the spilling of
:>blood in fear, pain or death is "clean" while the monthly flow of
:>blood every woman alive experiences at some time is disgusting enough
:>to make you vomit?
Although not female, I have to agree with your observations. Many men (dare
I say MOST men) also have the same aversions to menstrual discharge, for
reason's that totally elude me.
*Without* going into my sex life, I feel a need to say that I have never
allowed (unless the woman objected) my partners period to stop me from
engaging in *any* form of our sexual relations.
One thing about the scene that doesn't ring true to me though, is that
Lestat was nourished by the flow. In fact it rather bothered me that he was
even able to drink it.
I don't remember Anne Rice's TVCs deviating from the widely held belief that
vampires cannot comsume anything BUT blood. The menstrual discharge
(according to medical science) contains very little actual blood; being made
up mostly of a bit of blood, a lot of puss and fluid, and some other debris
being cleaned from the woman's system.
neonsamurai, keeper of the mist
>Alright STEVE!!! A guy after my own heart. I for one {and perhaps
>many} do *NOT* want to lick a peck of pickled peckers!
i could understand your feelings if the specific...er...organ was
repulsive in itself...but my girlfriend loves to. I suppose it is
simply preference, like steak well done or extra rare.
neonsamurai, keeper of the mist
>>to ingest semen, but it's not okay for men to ingest menstrual blood?
>Touche'
>Hey someone with a brain replying here...Well done NS!
absolute bullshit; menstrual blood is in no way likened to semen. the
more correct analogy would be "So it's okay for women to injest semen,
but not okay for men to ingest a woman's natural lube" you know...the
stuff that you taste when you taste down there? also when you
stimulate the g-spot? not menstrual blood, nope, not at all....
so, Mr. ns, by your logic a woman would like to drink bloody sweat
from a penis once a month...that is the closest thing to menstruation
a man can give.
btw: ask a WOMAN if she would like to lick her panti-liner.
Lady
>From: s...@j51.com (Kinet Chi)
>Subject: Re: Most DISGUSTING NASTY TASTELESS Thing in rices book
>Date: 16 Mar 1996 21:22:23 GMT
>*Without* going into my sex life, I feel a need to say that I have never
>allowed (unless the woman objected) my partners period to stop me from
>engaging in *any* form of our sexual relations.
I think I'm in LOVE. I've been lucky in my life to know a couple men like you
- course I knew some who weren't too. Where were you when I needed you?
>One thing about the scene that doesn't ring true to me though, is that
>Lestat was nourished by the flow. In fact it rather bothered me that he was
>even able to drink it.
True. Sounds a bit excessive to me. She must be about due for that hysterectomy
Lady
S. A. Buday
>
> On 14 Mar 1996, AcademyNS wrote:
>
> > And, oh, just wondering: you're not *married*, are you, Steve? If you
> > "almost puked" at that scene, what are you going to do when your wife asks
> > you to witness the birth of your child?
>
> I'm no med student but I'm pretty sure that at the time of birth, at no
> point is the father asked if he'd like a glass.
My God Laura! What are you thinking of?!
Not without the olive! I mean, we *are* one of the civilized nations for
God's sake!
-Stephanie- Mrs. Brat Queen-Wicked One
--
"Same old dance."
--Daniel QotD
"You'll dance to anything."
--Dead Milkmen
Lady
>From: Debbie_...@mindlink.bc.ca (Debbie Horcoff)
>Subject: Re: Most DISGUSTING NASTY TASTELESS Thing in rices book
>CS80...@mcs.csuhayward.edu (STEVE) wrote:
>Alright STEVE!!! A guy after my own heart. I for one {and perhaps
>many} do *NOT* want to lick a peck of pickled peckers!
What about chocolate covered?
Lady
Debbie Horcoff
>On Mon, 18 Mar 1996, Debbie Horcoff wrote:
>> Ladies, send for your mail-order Oral Clitoris today!! Hurry, they're
>> going fast--only $19.95 plus S&H, c/o Dick and Jane Inc...
> ^^^^^^
>Pun intended, we assume? ;)
>Laura Ann (a.k.a. Mrs. Wicked One)
To be delivered by "UPS" ! :o
Debbie ~~A pun is a terrible thing to waste~~
Mark A Filetti
> Don't worry, I learned from the group that a number of readers told
> Anne that they had rediscovered their lost faith when they read
> Memnoch, and that would not have happened if she hadn't influenced
> them.
Ahh yes, but lost faith in what? Wiccanism? <G> :))
> >to God and the Devil and their roles therein. Are there other
> >people out there who shun this book because they're offended by
> >Anne's views? Personally, I found it extremely thought-provoking
>
> Maybe, but I can't help thinking of that as a rather two-dimensional
> viewpoint. Readers often don't realise that writers are presenting an
> idea for the sake of artistic endeavour, and don't always agree with
> the views they are writing about.
I agreed with a lot of what Anne wrote in Memnoch. Alot of the
theological arguments coincided with beliefs I already had, but it didn't
change my fundamental religious (or anti-religious as the case may be) views.
Still, I felt that what Anne had to say in most of Memnoch was definitely
something that made you go 'Hmmm." or "I never thought of it in quite that
way."
Memenoch Spoiler...
However, I think I would have enjoyed the book much more if she hadn't turned
Armand in bacon. Thank you.
Just my $.02
Theresa
The Brat Queen
> >> Ladies, send for your mail-order Oral Clitoris today!! Hurry, they're
> >> going fast--only $19.95 plus S&H, c/o Dick and Jane Inc...
> > ^^^^^^
> >Pun intended, we assume? ;)
> To be delivered by "UPS" ! :o
Why not Dominos? If you don't come in 30 min or less, it's free!
Laura "My .sig file is getting more and more appropriate" Ann
(a.k.a. Mrs. Wicked One)
-----
"Wearing...?" "Occasionally, yes." --Day Runners, Inc.
"Your mind has a gutter all its own." --Aeon Flux
Frank Yao
>still here. Just lurking a lot.
Of course I remember you. I have a good long term memory. Can't say
the same for my short term memory tho. Maybe I should take one of
them memory courses on TV.
But, ladies, I was really never gone. I just stopped posting (and
reading) this group, but I was technically in lurker mode, making good
use of the 'c' key. :)
>Still Fluffy
>Bunicula
But are you Downey fresh? ;)
- frank
--
****** Frank Yao, fy...@csclub.uwaterloo.ca ***************************
* What if God was one of us? Just a slob like one of us? *
* - "One of Us" by Joan Osborne *
****************************** http://csclub.uwaterloo.ca/~fyao ******
STEVE
> And for the record, I and several women I've asked find that activity to
> be deeply arousing, and quite enjoyable. Speaking only for myself,
> however, the enjoyment depends entirely on how I feel about the man to
> whom the penis is attached.
> Anyway, the point of asking the question was this: So it's okay for women
> to ingest semen, but it's not okay for men to ingest menstrual blood?
Hey, if a guy wants to ingest menstral waste, to each his own. About as
healthy as ingesting pee or shit, but hey some people get off on that too,
and again, to each his/her own.
Gail Pamphilon
>a problem now cause I can't get her to continue reading it. She
>thinks it's sacreligious or something. I was brought up in a
>"holy-roller" family and I feel kinda bad for her cause I know
>she's really dying to read it, but feels like she may be
>betraying God or something if she does.
Don't worry, I learned from the group that a number of readers told
Anne that they had rediscovered their lost faith when they read
Memnoch, and that would not have happened if she hadn't influenced
them. Also, a number of priests told Anne that they liked the book.
Perhaps they understood whatever point she was trying to make.
If you tell your mother about these things she might feel better about
it.
>to God and the Devil and their roles therein. Are there other
>people out there who shun this book because they're offended by
>Anne's views? Personally, I found it extremely thought-provoking
Maybe, but I can't help thinking of that as a rather two-dimensional
viewpoint. Readers often don't realise that writers are presenting an
idea for the sake of artistic endeavour, and don't always agree with
the views they are writing about.
Gail
)
(
c[ ]
The Brat Queen
> Somebody mentioned Marius' inheriting his blue eyes from his mother shows
> that Anne doesn't know her basic biology. I know something about genetics
'Twas me =)
> and want to defend Anne's point of view:
>
> 'Blue eye gene' is recessive, yes, but it also means that a person having,
> say, brown eyes can carry a 'blue eye gene.' So, if the father has both and
> the mother has blue eyes (=only blue eye genes), the baby can have either blue
> or brown eyes.
[snip of example]
I know, and this is my point. From where did Marius's father get a blue
eye gene if his blood was supposedly so "pure"? Marius's explanation for
his own coloring is that it was solely from his slave mother, implying
that only the forgein slaves had such a gene pool to begin with and also
implying that the blonde/blue eye genes are dominant. But if we are to
assume the first as a given of the time - that the bloodlines of the
higher class Roman families all ran to dark coloring - and we know the
second to be false, the conclusion is that the Senator's blood was not as
"pure" as he told his son it was and that Marius's family had taken dips
in other gene pools elsewhere.
Which, if the only access to those gene pools was through slaves,
certainly raises interesting questions about the background of Marius's
family and how they would have treated a bastard child like him. For
example, perhaps the Senator knew his own bloodline wasn't as "pure" as
most of his class, and that's why he treated Marius so well - a common
bond between them, in other words. Or, perhaps, the Senator was ashamed
of his background (Marius had to get the idea that his coloring was his
mother's "fault" from somewhere) and Marius wasn't treated as well as he
would have had Lestat believe.
Laura Ann (a.k.a. Mrs. Wicked One)
Kristine Thomas
In article <4ijuuk$9...@cc.tut.fi> Maria Tarkka wrote:
>Date: 18 Mar 1996 15:19:48 GMT
>From: mt5...@vuokko.uta.fi (Maria Tarkka)
>Newsgroups: alt.books.anne-rice
>Subject: Re: Most DISGUSTING NASTY TASTELESS Thing in rices book
>
>that Anne doesn't know her basic biology. I know something about genetics
>
>'Blue eye gene' is recessive, yes, but it also means that a person having,
>say, brown eyes can carry a 'blue eye gene.' So, if the father has both and
>the mother has blue eyes (=only blue eye genes), the baby can have either
> blue
>or brown eyes.
>
>
> Bb X bb => 2xBb, 2xbb.
>
>This means half the babies are likely to have brown eyes and the other
> half,
>only too obviously, will have blue eyes. A normal person will say the blue
>eyes were inherited from the mother, and not get going with these crazy
>scientific things. :-)
>Lessthat
>--
Well, I can't claim to know much about science but I have blue eyes, my
husband has brown eyes, and our two daughters have blue eyes. Maybe Anne
knows more about biology than you think.
Fred McCall
:acad...@aol.com (AcademyNS) wrote:
:
:>Anyway, the point of asking the question was this: So it's okay for women
:>to ingest semen, but it's not okay for men to ingest menstrual blood?
:
:Get out of there girl! Move fast, it's going to BLOW!
Well, THAT explains the problem! Suck, don't blow!
--
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to
live in the real world." -- Mary Shafer, NASA Dryden
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
f...@onramp.net -- I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
Gail Pamphilon
> Besides, there is a major caveat to your eyeball analogy: Maharet's
>``borrowed'' eyes start to die in their sockets (Marius observes that the
>``human'' eyeballs gradually reject the continuous infusion of vampire blood)
>as soon as she puts them in. The same would happen for Mekare's tongue (even
>assuming that neuromuscular control can be asserted over the transplant --- not
>too farfetched if you allow for hooking up of the varmpiric retina and human
>cornea with no surgical implements whatsoever). I expect that the eyes last
>Maharet only a couple of weeks to a few months on the extreme outside (you
>could even make a case for a couple of days if you allow for her feeding only
>to procure sight); a tongue might last longer, say weeks to months instead of
>days to weeks, but rejection is inevitable.
That's funny, I thought it would have the opposite effect. I mean that
being awash with vampire blood might be enough to 'turn' the eyes as
well, or at least make them last longer, considering that vampire
blood is supposed to heal anything wrong with mortal tissue.
This may sound a little grisly, but would it make a difference whether
the eyes were already dead, or whether they were newly extracted and
still 'alive' when inserted into Maharet's head? It's said that life
remains in tissues for a few minutes after death.
Gail
)
(
c[ ]
RubyEuropa
>'Sides, didn't Lestat say he was powerful enough now that he didn't need
>blood? Or was he suffeciently weakened that he did?
Very true - he has said that he DOESN'T need the blood but that he
craves it more than ever. Big difference. And he's also said that one
doesn't need to kill the victim, but that many of the vampires aren't
strong enough for the 'little drink'
Ruby
A Wong
: >People, HE'S A VAMPIRE!!! They drink BLOOD! What was startling about
: that
: >scene is not that it happened but that it took as long as it did to
: occur!
: >You noticed, didn't you, that the topic was never even MENTIONED until
: >"MtD", five books and nineteen years into the series?
: Correct! And the reason why he drank of her blood that way was
: explained in the book. It is a way for a vampire who is weak and in
: need of blood to drink without killing its victim. It wasnt my
: favorite part of the book, but if memory serves me, there was a lead up
: to that whole scene...
: V*
Yeah, they are vampires. But that scene disgusted me. He didn't have to
drink from her. He could have drank from David or Armand who were also
in the room since he was so weak. There are alternatives.
SilverHawk
RubyEuropa
>> Ladies, send for your mail-order Oral Clitoris today!! Hurry, they're
>> going fast--only $19.95 plus S&H, c/o Dick and Jane Inc...
> ^^^^^^
Shouldn't it be Dick IN Jane? :)
Ruby
RubyEuropa
>rather moving. It's a cautious joining between two very different
>forms of eroticism: a human act would culminate in orgasm
Maybe orgasm for you, darlin, but not for me. I somehow can't picture
an orgasm happening when my river is running over and my PMS is in
turbo mode... heh heh
Ruby
RubyEuropa
>It isn't even real blood. Did anyone else wonder if it wasn't bad for
>Lestat's health?
I wonder if Lestat started developing breasts shortly thereafter... :
A-ha! Now I know the mystery to the Lestat we 'saw' in Memnoch the
Devil - in THAT book, he was a girlie! <g>
As for a vampire nipping at vine, so to speak, I read a similar scene
in another vampire book that came out in (1985, I think?) and it
worked better in that book. In fact, it WAS erotic. In this one, all I
wanted to do was bash Lestat in da head <g>
Ruby
RubyEuropa
>CS80...@mcs.csuhayward.edu (STEVE) wrote:
>>I think felattio is GREAT ... for the guy :P For the gal, well I wouldnt
>>blame a girl for not wanting to wrap her lips around a greasy penis :)
>Alright STEVE!!! A guy after my own heart. I for one {and perhaps
>many} do *NOT* want to lick a peck of pickled peckers!
you mean you wouldn't lickey no dickey to give it a hickey? :)
ruby
RubyEuropa
>be deeply arousing, and quite enjoyable. Speaking only for myself,
>however, the enjoyment depends entirely on how I feel about the man to
>whom the penis is attached.
You mean there's an actual man attached to a penis? Wow....
heh heh
Ruby
AcademyNS
>Maybe Anne knows more about biology than you think.
If she does, then why, may I ask, have not her vampires, in all this time,
directed their preternaturally acute senses and powers of concentration to
the mystery of their own physiology? Why, after two centuries, does Lestat
still not know what lies in his abdominal cavity?
Debbie Horcoff
>Debbie_...@mindlink.bc.ca (Debbie Horcoff) saideth:
>>CS80...@mcs.csuhayward.edu (STEVE) wrote:
>ruby
You think I wanna get sticky? ;]
KATJA ANNIKA KIVILAHTI
just had to reply - I think there is more to this fuss than whether
menstrual blood is disgusting or not. (This turned out to be a long one,
so don't read unless you're interested in subconscious attitudes and
vampires as sexual beings... *grin*)
> >>>Is there ANYTHING in Anne Rice's books half as disgusting as when lestat
> >>>sucks the bllod from Dora's vaginal area, and even sucks the blood from
> >>>the tampoons??
No. Because it wasn't disgusting, it was beautiful. When Memnoch showed
Lestat the things humans are able to do to each other, now _that_ was
disgusting - and not because it would be disgusting to write such things
but because human cruelty can be really, really repulsive. And even these
scenes were somehow darkly beautiful, the same as all the Vampire Chronicles.
> It isn't even real blood. Did anyone else wonder if it wasn't bad for
> Lestat's health?
I think someone already asked whether menstrual blood is blood at all.
And if it is, isn't it dead blood and therefore Rather Unhealthy to
vampires? IMHO the scene was great, but when I began analyzing it, it
didn't seem logical. And this leaves me wondering whether Anne Rice knew
about this inconsistency and chose to ignore it in order to be able to
write the scene - after all, there _are_ other points to it.
>
> >I think Anne Rice did rather well w/ the subject - although I was
> >surprised that she didn't make it an overtly sexual act. I found it
> >rather moving. It's a cautious joining between two very different
>
> Well, I don't think a vampire is a sexual being - at least in the
> 'human' sense, so that could be it. I still don't know what she was
> trying to say with that scene, but I haven't read Memnoch yet, so I
> wouldn't.
I think she was trying to depict her vampires as they are and as they
have always been. She doesn't have to worry about publishers turning her
books down anymore...
There are very few scenes of actual sexual intercourse in the VC, and it
seems Rice's vampires are impotent, when it comes to that. This is only
logical - since vampires create progeny by other means, their physique
no longer needs the instinct and, in a sense, the whole meaning of sex
is nullified (despite all the spec writers' enjoyable attempts to change
this fact). And since vampires apparently get much more pleasure from
drinking blood than a human could ever get from sex, why should they
be content with anything else? I know most of you already realize this.
Vampires are sexual beings only when it comes to our point
of view. They themselves have no sexual urges, and therefore (at least
in due time, as the human values and restraints slowly wear off) they
simply don't consider the same things sexual as we do - or be repelled
by same things as we are.
The condition Lestat was in when he did his 'unspeacable act' he was
totally unable to control his need. Where he sank his fangs just wasn't
the first thing in his mind, so he took the blood from where it seemed
(where he smelled it?) to be most abundant. He thought what he'd done
'unspeacable' afterwards only because he knew such a thing was
considered repulsive by most mortals and even by many vampires - just
like this little discussion has proved them to do.
>
> >Think about your attitude: do you really think that the spilling of
> >blood in fear, pain or death is "clean" while the monthly flow of
> >blood every woman alive experiences at some time is disgusting enough
> >to make you vomit?
>
> It's not the menstrual blood, as I think you know, but the act itself
> that disgusted him. Why do you criticise him for such a natural
> reaction? I feel the same, and I am a woman. Your opinion isn't the
> only one. But I realise that it was meant to be an allegory of some
> sort, so it doesn't make sense to be upset by it.
Hmm, let me see... I agree with the opinion and the allegory.... and even
the 'act itself' part sounds good, but doesn't hold so, I'm afraid. What
_does_ make this act disgusting? Well, it's apparently the blood and
vaginal area and nothing else.
And I wonder if there is anything 'natural' about this reaction. On the
contrary, it seems to me it is _because_ humans have drawn so far away from
nature that such an act has become revolting. Most of us still think
rather magically - the menstrual blood and genitals are unclean (->
evil) and anyone who touches them becomes impure (-> evil). Just like
being near beautiful things and possessing them makes us feel better and
more beautiful ourselves.The way these primitive attitudes appear in our
behaviour and opinions are of course far more subtle than this, but this
is where it basically comes to. And I'm not saying it is _evil_ to think
magically - I'm just saying we should realize when we do so and whether
it does any good. Apparently it does not.
Wonder if anyone ever gets this far. :)
----Rhia
Lady
>From: The Brat Queen <la...@columbia.edu>
>Subject: Re: Most DISGUSTING NASTY TASTELESS Thing in rices book
>Why not Dominos? If you don't come in 30 min or less, it's free!
Or grounds for murder!!!!!
Lady
Lady
>From: Debbie_...@mindlink.bc.ca (Debbie Horcoff)
>Heretic! Blasphemer! On thy knees, and forthwith purge thyself with
>forty Hail Einsteins! O the impiety...
I like how your mind works!!!
>A handsome, Heterogeneous male---you lucky thing. I'm green-eyed
>with jealously. How nice to have a man with " blue genes"!
>Debbie << Alleleujah!!!! >>
Maybe it's something about people named Deborah, but we seem to be sick
puppies. :-) Personally, I've always favored "black genes" but that's just
my personal "taste".
Lady
Lady
>From: kra...@io.com (Armand de Orive)
>Subject: Re: Most DISGUSTING NASTY TASTELESS Thing in rices book
>No shit. I don't know about other fellas out there but the word "greasy"
>could not and should not be applied in reference to my anatomy. The day
>one of my lovers uses this word when viewing the goods is the exact
>minute I head for the nearest shower.
Hopefully, you did BEFORE someone had to comment!!! Then again...... well,
that's another story.
Lady
Lady
>From: f...@onramp.net (Fred McCall)
>Subject: Re: Most DISGUSTING NASTY TASTELESS Thing in rices book
>Well, THAT explains the problem! Suck, don't blow!
Oh, thank you. I knew I was forgetting something. So many things to remember
and so little time. It's all so confusing. I think I need a coach.
Lady
Lady
>From: Debbie_...@mindlink.bc.ca (Debbie Horcoff)
>acad...@aol.com (AcademyNS) wrote:
>>And for the record, I and several women I've asked find that activity to
>>be deeply arousing, and quite enjoyable.
>Purrrrrrrrrrr......
Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm!! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!
>> Speaking only for myself,
>>however, the enjoyment depends entirely on how I feel about the man to
>>whom the penis is attached.
You know, you bring up a point. Too bad the parts aren't interchangeable.
Haven't we all wanted to assemble a man from PARTS borrowed from other men.
The possibilites are ENDLESS.
Lady
>Ladies, send for your mail-order Oral Clitoris today!! Hurry, they're
>going fast--only $19.95 plus S&H, c/o Dick and Jane Inc...
What do I get for my $19.95? Does it need to be fed or does it just "work"
for the fun of it?
>>Anyway, the point of asking the question was this: So it's okay for women
>>to ingest semen, but it's not okay for men to ingest menstrual blood?
Great minds!!! I just wrote that in my previous post.
>Get out of there girl! Move fast, it's going to BLOW!
Yeah right. How come men don't listen when WE say that?????????
Lady
Lady
>From: CS80...@mcs.csuhayward.edu (STEVE)
>Subject: Re: Most DISGUSTING NASTY TASTELESS Thing in rices book
>Hey, if a guy wants to ingest menstral waste, to each his own. About as
>healthy as ingesting pee or shit, but hey some people get off on that too,
>and again, to each his/her own.
WASTE. WASTE. Where have you been all your life. WASTE. I really don't
believe you said that. ALSO, you didnt' answer the questions about men
wanting women to ingest their semen. You know, the "real women swallow" bit.
Well, real men do too.
Waste??????!!!!!!!
Lady
Lady
>From: The Thing <ccj@Flamestrike>
>Subject: Re: Most DISGUSTING NASTY TASTELESS Thing in rices book
>Correction- that COULD result in orgasm- if he was stimulating her clitoris.
Good point. Should we change this to Sex Ed 101? :-)
>There may be a few reasons: blood spilled by wounds isn't always
>considered "clean", and menstrual 'blood' isn't 'blood'- there are other
>materials in there, as well. Very little of it is real blood, in fact.
>I learned this in 5th grade, when all the girls were sent for that
>'special presentation' with the school nurse. Why do people seem so
>confused about this? And how do spill blood in fear?
Yes, that one has always amazed me too. Men want women to accept their semen
but let them see a little tinge of red and most are out of there. If they only
knew what they were missing. Did the look over the part about women being
their most sensual and responsive during their period? I guess I was lucky, my
second lover (eons ago it seems) was very open, older than I, and believed
anything, anytime was fine. He taught me the same. Lestat has the right idea.
Come one guys, if you want us to, you should be willing also. :-)
How's that for opening another can of worms?? :-)
Lady
>> Regards, \/\/oof
>+----Catherine Johnson -------------- c...@flamestrike.hacks.arizona.edu----+
>| "Well the music's bad, but at least it's drowning out the dialogue." |
>| -Tom Servo, _Mystery_Science_Theater_3000_ |
>+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Lady
>From: Debbie_...@mindlink.bc.ca (Debbie Horcoff)
>You think I wanna get sticky? ;]
Isn't that the whole point of the thing?
Lady
RubyEuropa
>>you mean you wouldn't lickey no dickey to give it a hickey? :)
>>ruby
>You think I wanna get sticky? ;]
why not, you sickie? :)
Ruby
Lady
>From: Debbie_...@mindlink.bc.ca (Debbie Horcoff)
>Subject: Re: Most DISGUSTING NASTY TASTELESS Thing in rices book
>>>You think I wanna get sticky? ;]
>>Isn't that the whole point of the thing?
>>Lady
>How pointed is it?
>Just point it towards the nether regions, please!
Depends, wearing a hat and raincoat?
Lady
Debbie Horcoff
>In article <4ikjrk$d...@fountain.mindlink.net> Debbie_...@mindlink.bc.ca (Debbie Horcoff) writes:
>>From: Debbie_...@mindlink.bc.ca (Debbie Horcoff)
>>Subject: Re: Most DISGUSTING NASTY TASTELESS Thing in rices book
>>Date: Mon, 18 Mar 1996 21:16:16 GMT
>>Heretic! Blasphemer! On thy knees, and forthwith purge thyself with
>>forty Hail Einsteins! O the impiety...
>I like how your mind works!!!
>>A handsome, Heterogeneous male---you lucky thing. I'm green-eyed
>>with jealously. How nice to have a man with " blue genes"!
>>Debbie << Alleleujah!!!! >>
>Maybe it's something about people named Deborah, but we seem to be sick
>puppies. :-) Personally, I've always favored "black genes" but that's just
>my personal "taste".
>Lady
Hello, fellow Deb---you are the second person from this NG to call me
a "sick puppy"!! I can't take all these compliments, gosh...<g>
You may have something there, namesake. My full name is Deborah
"Anne"...hmmm, seems there might be another contributing factor at
work here.
Debbie Horcoff
>In article <4itofb$4...@fountain.mindlink.net> Debbie_...@mindlink.bc.ca (Debbie Horcoff) writes:
>>From: Debbie_...@mindlink.bc.ca (Debbie Horcoff)
>>Subject: Re: Most DISGUSTING NASTY TASTELESS Thing in rices book
>>Date: Fri, 22 Mar 1996 08:30:32 GMT
VampLadee
(RubyEuropa) writes:
>As for a vampire nipping at vine, so to speak, I read a similar scene
>in another vampire book that came out in (1985, I think?) and it
>worked better in that book. In fact, it WAS erotic. In this one, all I
>wanted to do was bash Lestat in da head <g>
>
>
>Ruby
Sounds like an interesting book. Do you remember the name? There's
also a similar short story in "Love in Vein" edited by Poppy Brite called
"Geraldine" by Ian McDowell.
Only in *that* story, Geraldine uses her quasi-vampiric powers to
cause people to have sex so the woman gets pregnant, so she
can...um..."feed" off the fetus. So during oral sex with the
woman, she causes an abortion.
Interesting...kinda gross, but interesting.
v~~v
Vamp
^~~^
AcademyNS
of it. There seems to be some confusion as to just what menstrual blood
IS. One writer a while ago even posted that it contains pus. No, no,
no....
According to my old college physiology text, the menses consist of the
uterine lining, which is made of epithelial cells, the lipid- and
hormone-rich remains of the egg, called the corpus luteum, mucus, and
blood, both old AND new. Menstruation occurs when the female body,
realizing that it isn't pregnant, reacts to a hormonal message by
constricting the tiny arterioles leading to the utering lining. Those
cells not receiving adequate oxygen then die, resulting in a weak layer
between the uterine wall and lining. The epithelial layer hangs on for a
bit, and then, as if on cue, sloughs away from the uterine wall. When it
goes, it rips open those arterioles and the capilary net, resulting in
fresh blood being shed (and cramps, which most women know quite well).
So, in conclusion, Lestat DID get fresh blood...but he also got epithelial
cells, which differ from red blood cells mainly in having nuclei. WHITE
blood cells, however, found in whole blood, also have nuclei, so what this
actually MEANS...well..uh....ask Anne, I guess.
Now, about that "pus" remark: for the record, what we call "pus" is
actually a mixture of certain white blood cells, called phagocytes, which
attack and absorb invading bacteria or other pathogens, and the pathogens
themselves. These cells "eat" or absorb these invaders, but if the
infection is too widespread, they can become overstuffed and can rupture.
The "pus" is a mixture of the bacteria and these ruptured cells. In a
normal, healthy woman, therefore, pus WOULD NOT be present in the menses.
If there is, then a woman needs to see her doctor.
(What is interesting about this, of course, is the association between
menstruation and infection....hmm, very interesting indeed.)
RoniS87659
Subject: Re: Most DISGUSTING NASTY TASTELESS Thing in rices book
From: acad...@aol.com (AcademyNS)
Date: 23 Mar 1996 01:44:48 -0500
Thank you so much for the lesson on menstruation, maybe if more people
understood how the process actually works they wouldn't be so grossed out
by that scene in the book.
RubyEuropa
>Hmm, let me see... I agree with the opinion and the allegory.... and even
>the 'act itself' part sounds good, but doesn't hold so, I'm afraid. What
>_does_ make this act disgusting? Well, it's apparently the blood and
>vaginal area and nothing else.
>And I wonder if there is anything 'natural' about this reaction. On the
>contrary, it seems to me it is _because_ humans have drawn so far away from
>nature that such an act has become revolting.
Actually, no. I don't consider the genitals or menstruation revolting
or unclean. My problem with that scene was that I equate what he did
with, basically, eating shit: both contain mostly body waste and not
nourishment. The scene was useless for me. If it was supposed to be
taken "symbolically" - again, was useless for me.
>Most of us still think
>rather magically - the menstrual blood and genitals are unclean (->
>evil) and anyone who touches them becomes impure (-> evil).
Huh? Really? I don't know anyone, nor have I known anyone, who ever
thought that. Have you, truly?
>Wonder if anyone ever gets this far. :)
I did :)
Ruby
Wakko NYC
noir7) writes:
> Thank you! I just finished the book a few weeks ago, and I knew if I
>came out to this newsgroup somebody'd be griping about that scene.
>Wanna hear something that'll really sick the rest of you out? I
>*loved* that scene. It... *worked* for me, personally. How many other
>women out there saw it as an incredible opportunity for sexual
>intimacy with Lestat? Anyone? Am I all alone? I daresay not--I suspect
>it's what she had in mind when she wrote it. But I did enjoy
>everyone's outragious imagery (the doctor handing the father a glass!
>LOL!). Sorry. Just have to know if I'm the sickest woman on earth or
>what. Flame away if you want but know right now: I won't be impressed
>with arguments as to why I'm a pervert--my opinion stands.
No, Thank you for coming forward with this. I was beginning to think that
maybe it was all me. Not that I enjoyed the rest of the book, but for
some reason that scene *worked* for me as well. I have been deeply
attracted to Lestat since my mind's eye saw him prancing around that stage
in those tight leather pants (mmm mmm mmm...)
However, it is my belief that vampires and mortals alike engage in these
sexual activities (of course I've never been lucky enough to come across
one of these gentlemen...) I guess it all goes back to the fact that
people view it as embarrassing or disgusting -- someone posted an article
about it a few posts ago. Whatever -- Perverts unite!!
--Brandi
(Little Spoiler to Beauty Series below)
Oh, an as an interesting aside...for those who have read the Beauty
series...Did anyone notice that Anne was very willing to go into menstrual
detail in Memnoch, but even though the slaves were naked for years, not
once was it mentioned what the female slaves did when it was their time of
the month...
Rtk
>rbyg...@anglianet.co.uk (Ruth Bygrave) saideth:
>
>
>
>>rather moving. It's a cautious joining between two very different
>>forms of eroticism: a human act would culminate in orgasm
>
>Maybe orgasm for you, darlin, but not for me. I somehow can't picture
>an orgasm happening when my river is running over and my PMS is in
>turbo mode... heh heh
>
>Ruby
>
>
Actually, an orgasm is a great way to alleviate a bit of that PMS...works
for me anyway!
--
Rae-Ann
Lady
>From: r_eu...@clark.net (RubyEuropa)
>Subject: Re: Most DISGUSTING NASTY TASTELESS Thing in rices book
>Maybe orgasm for you, darlin, but not for me. I somehow can't picture
>an orgasm happening when my river is running over and my PMS is in
>turbo mode... heh heh
>Ruby
Actually, it's one of the BEST times, takes care of that PMS and helps the
boob pain too!!!!!!!!!!
Hey, we've found a cure for PMS and cramps. Maybe we should patent it and call
it Anne's cure.
Lady
Fred McCall
:In article <CS805-06-170...@10.0.2.15> CS80...@mcs.csuhayward.edu (STEVE) writes:
:>From: CS80...@mcs.csuhayward.edu (STEVE)
:>Subject: Re: Most DISGUSTING NASTY TASTELESS Thing in rices book
:>Date: 18 Mar 1996 04:44:34 GMT
:
:>Hey, if a guy wants to ingest menstral waste, to each his own. About as
:>healthy as ingesting pee or shit, but hey some people get off on that too,
:>and again, to each his/her own.
:
:WASTE. WASTE. Where have you been all your life. WASTE. I really don't
:believe you said that. ALSO, you didnt' answer the questions about men
:wanting women to ingest their semen. You know, the "real women swallow" bit.
:Well, real men do too.
:Waste??????!!!!!!!
Yes, waste. Learn a little biology. The main component of 'menstrual
blood' isn't blood; it's puss. Now, I've never ingested semen, so I
can't say what it tastes like, but it's mainly made of protein.
That's just a BIT different than something consisting mainly of puss
and dead cells sloughing off.
--
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to
live in the real world." -- Mary Shafer, NASA Dryden
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
f...@onramp.net -- I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.
Nash
kkiv...@zombie.oulu.fi says...
>> It isn't even real blood. Did anyone else wonder if it wasn't bad for
>> Lestat's health?
>
>I think someone already asked whether menstrual blood is blood at all.
>And if it is, isn't it dead blood and therefore Rather Unhealthy to
>vampires? IMHO the scene was great, but when I began analyzing it, it
>didn't seem logical. And this leaves me wondering whether Anne Rice knew
>about this inconsistency and chose to ignore it in order to be able to
>write the scene - after all, there _are_ other points to it.
Everyone seems to have seen the movie too often and read the most
beloved book, _The Vampire Lestat_, just a time too few. The only time the
dead blood thing came up was because of Jordan in the movie. He re-wrote the
scene. In _TVL_, Lestat is so starved for blood after just being created that
he drinks the blood of the dead men in Magnus' dungeon.
The problem isn't drinking dead blood, it's drinking while they die.
This has been a point in IWTV, and Lestat broke this rule himself in TVL. He
found out why; it's an almost overwhelming experience, able to drag a weak
vampire down into death with the victim.
To sum up, there is no problem with drinking dead blood.
Regards,
Aarethin D'Nash
Besides, wouldn't drinking blood in a glass constitute "dead?"
Gail Pamphilon
>WASTE. WASTE. Where have you been all your life. WASTE. I really don't
>believe you said that. ALSO, you didnt' answer the questions about men
>wanting women to ingest their semen. You know, the "real women swallow" bit.
Why are you upset by this remark? Semen is not a waste product, it's
an attempt to make a baby. It contains millions of living cells.
Menstrual 'blood' is a waste product. It is a useless womb that is no
longer needed because there is no baby. So it breaks down and is
disposed of. What's the problem?
Gail
)
(
c[ ]
Lady
>From: r_eu...@clark.net (RubyEuropa)
>acad...@aol.com (AcademyNS) saideth:
>>be deeply arousing, and quite enjoyable. Speaking only for myself,
>>however, the enjoyment depends entirely on how I feel about the man to
>>whom the penis is attached.
>You mean there's an actual man attached to a penis? Wow....
>heh heh
>Ruby
Well, that can be debatable at times. REAL men don't freak out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lady
Lady
>From: wakk...@aol.com (Wakko NYC)
>Subject: Re: Most DISGUSTING NASTY TASTELESS Thing in rices book
- Perverts unite!!
>--Brandi
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Anne has brought us together. Oh, and I agree about
Lestat and those leather pants. Somehow in my mind's eye he kinda
resembled Jim Morrison.
>Oh, an as an interesting aside...for those who have read the Beauty
>series...Did anyone notice that Anne was very willing to go into menstrual
>detail in Memnoch, but even though the slaves were naked for years, not
>once was it mentioned what the female slaves did when it was their time of
>the month...
Yep, I noticed that. Curious wasn't it. However, I have to admit to never
looked at a sword scabbard the same since I read these. Kinda like cucumbers,
I don't touch either one in public cos it gets kinda weird. :-)
What fun to find fellow perverts.
Lady
b...@hk.super.net
> Quoth la...@azstarnet.com (Lady):
> >WASTE. WASTEI really don't > >believe you said that.
> Why are you upset by this remark? > Menstrual 'blood' is a waste product. It is a useless womb that is no
> longer needed because there is no baby.
Personally, I'd be a bit concerned if my menstrual discharge contained *any*
type of womb, useless or not! Don't you mean the lining that has been buliding
up all month and not the womb itself? (I may be nitpicking, but to me there's an
awfully big difference!)
SORCHA5
(AcademyNS) writes:
>Anyway, the point of asking the question was this: So it's okay for women
>to ingest semen, but it's not okay for men to ingest menstrual blood?
Touche'
Hey someone with a brain replying here...Well done NS!
S. Olmstead-Dean
: Yes, waste. Learn a little biology. The main component of 'menstrual
: blood' isn't blood; it's puss. Now, I've never ingested semen, so I
: can't say what it tastes like, but it's mainly made of protein.
: That's just a BIT different than something consisting mainly of puss
: and dead cells sloughing off.
Wrong wrong wrong...there's no pus there. Where on earth did you get
that idea? It's blood and uterine lining...you know, where the fetus
implants and grows, provided conception takes place? Be real, a fetus
can't grow in infection (or if it does, it comes out with something wrong
- ever seen the child of a mother with Syphillis?). Sounds like maybe
you should learn some VERY basic biology.
Stephanie
(who knows more than she cares to admit about biology)
RubyEuropa
>Sounds like an interesting book. Do you remember the name? There's
>also a similar short story in "Love in Vein" edited by Poppy Brite called
>"Geraldine" by Ian McDowell.
Yeah - the book is called Vampire Junction, by S.M. Somtow.
Interestingly, THIS vampire is a rock singer. Hmm... wonder if Anne
ever read Somtow (there is a sequel to Vampire Junction called
Valentine)? There are different themes in Somtow's book that I've also
found in Anne's later vampire books. I like Somtow's books, but they
lack the eloquence of Anne's.
As for Poppy Z Brite, I avoid books bearing that name like da plague
<g>
Ruby
RubyEuropa
>This has been a point in IWTV, and Lestat broke this rule himself in TVL. He
>found out why; it's an almost overwhelming experience, able to drag a weak
>vampire down into death with the victim.
Hmm... i wonder if this is something Anne later changed? doesn't she
mention in one of the first two books that a vampire can be sucked
into death along with the victim if he doesn't stop drinking before
the heart stops?
Ruby
AcademyNS
blood, and not only that, he's back to reiterate it. Therefore, one more
time:
THERE IS NO PUS IN MENSTRUAL BLOOD! "Pus" is the result of white blood
cells attacking invading pathogens. Pus is the result of INFECTION, and
menstruation IS NOT infection!
Now, I can back this up with quotations from medical and biological texts:
where are you getting your info, Fred?
Christy
G> .netcom.net!nntp.coast.net!agis!news.dorsai.org!usenet
G> From: gimli@jb7@dorsai.org
G> Newsgroups: alt.books.anne-rice
G> Subject: Re: Most DISGUSTING NASTY TASTELESS Thing in rices book
G> Date: 14 Mar 1996 14:46:43 GMT
G> Organization: The Dorsai Embassy, Inc.
G> Lines: 25
G> Message-ID: <4i9bgj$m...@kensie.dorsai.org>
G> References: <CS805-06-120...@10.0.2.15>
G> Reply-To: j...@POP.DORSAI.ORG
G> NNTP-Posting-Host: gimli.ppp0.dorsai.org
G> X-Newsreader: IBM NewsReader/2 v1.2.5
G>
G> In <CS805-06-120...@10.0.2.15>, CS80...@mcs.csuhayward.edu
G> (STEVE) writes:
G> >The vampire series IS a bloody gory series BUT, one scene went so far
G> >beyond the tasteless that I almost puked.
G> >
G> >Is there ANYTHING in Anne Rice's books half as disgusting as when lestat
G> >sucks the bllod from Dora's vaginal area, and even sucks the blood from
G> >the tampoons??
That is a bit on the disgussing side I must admit. Got to look at it this
way though. A vampire needs blood anyway they can get it to survive.
christy
G> >
G> >That was just so disgusting!! That is about the grossest thing I can even
G> >imagine!!
G>
G> Actually, this makes me crave a medium-rare steak!
G>
Steve
wrote:
Both of these are the same thing. He said "drag into death with the
victim" and you said "sucked into death along with the vitcim".
RubyEuropa
>Hey, we've found a cure for PMS and cramps. Maybe we should patent it and call
>it Anne's cure.
Best cure I know of, currently, for PMS is Demerol and an Uzi <g>
Ruby
Debbie Horcoff
That's what I'd like to know!!!! What's all this "PUS" crap?
And really, now, how can we give any credence to warped ideas about
female biology coming from someone named *FRED*!!
Good lord, Fred, unless you are experiencing pus-filled periods {and
if you are, I suggest you rush to the doctor} I can't understand how
you came up with this one....... >:(
RubyEuropa
>Personally, I'd be a bit concerned if my menstrual discharge contained *any*
> type of womb, useless or not! Don't you mean the lining that has been buliding
>up all month and not the womb itself? (I may be nitpicking, but to me there's an
>awfully big difference!)
Wow, so itz my WOMB falling out every month that sends me into the
crazies. Damn! Now I understand a WHOLE LOTTA THINGS I never
understood before <g>
silly Rubes
JACQUILYNNE SCHLESIER
>From: r_eu...@clark.net (RubyEuropa)
>la...@azstarnet.com (Lady) saideth:
>Ruby
No way, it's 4 Tylenol-3 (all the fun of Demoral and none of the side
effects), 3 shots of Absolut Kurrant, a big eiderdown quilt and the bugs bunny
and tweety show. Although I bet the Uzi would help a lot too.
JAS
RoniS87659
(Gail Pamphilon) writes:
>>WASTE. WASTE. Where have you been all your life. WASTE. I really
don't
>>believe you said that. ALSO, you didnt' answer the questions about men
>>wanting women to ingest their semen. You know, the "real women swallow"
bit.
>
>Why are you upset by this remark? Semen is not a waste product, it's
>an attempt to make a baby. It contains millions of living cells.
>Menstrual 'blood' is a waste product. It is a useless womb that is no
>longer needed because there is no baby. So it breaks down and is
>disposed of. What's the problem?
I would have to agree with you that menstrual blood is technically a waste
product, however if the arguement is that menstrual blood was not meant to
go in ones mouth, neither is semen, as you explained so well yourself it
is an attempt to make a baby, which last time I heard could not be done
orally.
I personally see nothing wrong with"swallowing" nor do I see why menstrual
blood should stop someone from doing whatever they enjoy. :)
Roni
Ruth Bygrave
[Menstrual blood as waste vs. semen as waste]
>Why are you upset by this remark? Semen is not a waste product, it's
>an attempt to make a baby. It contains millions of living cells.
>Menstrual 'blood' is a waste product. It is a useless womb that is no
Seems to me they're both similar: semen outside the vagina and
menstrual 'blood' are not fulfilling the reproductive purpose (except
in showing the equipment is working). Therefore human beings are free
to experience, in human terms, either a by-product which they accept
or a waste-product which they condemn.
Regards, \/\/oof
S. Olmstead-Dean
: No way, it's 4 Tylenol-3 (all the fun of Demoral and none of the side
: and tweety show. Although I bet the Uzi would help a lot too.
And dammit, don't forget the chocolate!
Stephanie
KATJA ANNIKA KIVILAHTI
On Sat, 23 Mar 1996, RubyEuropa wrote:
> >Hmm, let me see... I agree with the opinion and the allegory.... and even
> >the 'act itself' part sounds good, but doesn't hold so, I'm afraid. What
> >_does_ make this act disgusting? Well, it's apparently the blood and
> >vaginal area and nothing else.
>
> Actually, no. I don't consider the genitals or menstruation revolting
> or unclean. My problem with that scene was that I equate what he did
> with, basically, eating shit: both contain mostly body waste and not
> nourishment. The scene was useless for me. If it was supposed to be
> taken "symbolically" - again, was useless for me.
>
I'd like to lecture on this, but, fortunately, that has already been done
by others. Suffice it to say that even when you wrote that, you WERE
thinking magically. With all due respect, think about it. ;)
>
> >Most of us still think
> >rather magically - the menstrual blood and genitals are unclean (->
> >evil) and anyone who touches them becomes impure (-> evil).
>
> Huh? Really? I don't know anyone, nor have I known anyone, who ever
> thought that. Have you, truly?
We all think this way in one way or another, some more than others. It's
evident in our everyday life. In a commercial where they show a gorgeous
hunk wearing Levis' or a 20-year old super model using an anti-wrinkle
product, now that's magical thinking used at its most rawest.
See, you didn't get the point. Nobody goes around saying he/she
thinks menstrual blood etc. unclean and evil (unless the person's a
fanatic of some sorts). It's about SUBCONSCIOUS attitudes. Let me give
you another example.
A guy was asked whether he would eat a cockroach. Well, he would
not. Why? Because it's unhygienic, he said. So they disinfected the
cockroach, prepared it nicely and offered it again. Still he would not eat
it, though being a med student he knew it was safe to do so. He wouldn't
even eat chocolates shaped as cockroaches. You wouldn't eat them,
either. I wouldn't. Why?
It's of course because people in our culture have been taught to consider
cockroaches dirty creatures. Even the cockroach candies won't please us,
because we SUBCONSCIOUSLY believe the dirtiness of a cockroach would
infect us. There are cultures where people eat worms and the like or
refuse eating pork. Termites are all the rage in Singapore... It's all
about what we've been taught in our childhood by our parents, religion
and culture, things not necessarily logical or even going against all
logic, but still predominant. And IMHO eating termites is by far more
reasonable than equating Lestat's act with eating shit.
Again I want to point out I'm not saying it's an Evil Thing to think
magically. But I like to analyze my own motives of saying and doing
things, and I'd like to see others doing so also. I know I'm lecturing
now, but anyhow... Think about it. Sometimes it makes a difference :)
>
> >Wonder if anyone ever gets this far. :)
>
> I did :)
Thanks :)
---Rhia
Fred McCall
:(What is interesting about this, of course, is the association between
:menstruation and infection....hmm, very interesting indeed.)
Next up: Toxic shock.