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Idiot Canada woman, 25, faces life in prison for stopping on highway to rescue ducklings and causing crash that killed a father and his daughter
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Yes They Walk Among Us
Jun 21, 2014, 11:43:19 PM6/21/14
to
A woman who parked her car on a highway to rescue ducklings has
been found guilty of causing the deaths of a motorcyclist and
his daughter who slammed into her vehicle.
Emma Czornobaj was convicted by a jury on Friday on two counts
of criminal negligence causing death, a charge that carries a
maximum life sentence, and two counts of dangerous driving
causing death, which comes with a maximum of 14 years in jail.
The 25-year-old was charged in the deaths of Andre Roy, 50, and
his daughter Jessie, 16.
She wiped away tears when the verdict was delivered to a packed
courtroom in Montreal.
Quebec Superior Court Justice Eliane Perreault said the 12-
member jury voted unanimously.
Czornobaj was released until her pre-sentence hearing on August
8.
Roy's motorcycle slammed into Czornobaj's Honda Civic after the
woman stopped in the left lane of Highway 30 in Candiac, Quebec
on June 27, 2010. Jessie was sitting on the back of her dad's
Harley-Davidson.
Pauline Volikakis was riding her own motorbike behind her
husband and daughter, and watched in horror as they were thrown
into the air.
Volikakis briefly fought back tears when she left the courtroom.
'I don't wish misfortune on anyone,' the widow said. 'It's time
that we go on. This will not bring (back) my loved ones.'
She said she hoped publicity of the case will reinforce a basic
message to drivers.
'Future and present drivers should know that we don�t stop on
highways, and it�s very dangerous. Even if it�s a small animal
that we like or that we want to preserve, we should not stop on
the highways,' she said. 'It�s not a place to stop.'
Czornobaj, a self-professed animal lover, told the court that
she did not see the ducklings' mother anywhere and planned to
capture them and take them home.
She had three years driving experience at the time of the
accident.
National Post reported Czornobaj, who doesn't have a criminal
record, was willing to plead guilty as recently as April but
refused to do jail time.
Her lawyer Marc Labelle said his client was stunned by the
jury's decision. He said he may appeal.
'So now we are at the sentencing stage in this case. The
question we have to ask is that considering the nature of the
facts, it is rare that we have criminal negligence where there
are no bad elements,' Labelle said.
'This was not a race. This was not a person who took a chance
and drove drunk. This is not about someone who was speeding and
took a risky maneuver.'
During the trial, witness Martine Tessier testified that she
noticed parked car didn't have its hazards on and that the
driver's door was open.
She also said she saw Czornobaj motioning to some ducks on the
side of the road.
'I shouted to my [three] children: �What is she doing there?
She�s going to get killed',' Tessier said, according to National
Post.
'I saw a body go over the car. It looked like a rag doll. I
shouted to my daughter to call 911.'
Prosecutor Annie-Claude Chasse had a message for motorists.
'What we hope is that a clear message is sent to society that we
do not stop on the highway for animals. It's not worth it,' she
said.
Czornobaj left the courthouse without commenting.
According to National Post, she is a financial analyst who
graduated from Concordia�s John Molson School of Business where
she made the dean�s list.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2663995/Canada-woman-
stops-ducks-guilty-2-deaths.html
This woman is a complete idiot and should be beaten to death
with motorcycle chains.
been found guilty of causing the deaths of a motorcyclist and
his daughter who slammed into her vehicle.
Emma Czornobaj was convicted by a jury on Friday on two counts
of criminal negligence causing death, a charge that carries a
maximum life sentence, and two counts of dangerous driving
causing death, which comes with a maximum of 14 years in jail.
The 25-year-old was charged in the deaths of Andre Roy, 50, and
his daughter Jessie, 16.
She wiped away tears when the verdict was delivered to a packed
courtroom in Montreal.
Quebec Superior Court Justice Eliane Perreault said the 12-
member jury voted unanimously.
Czornobaj was released until her pre-sentence hearing on August
8.
Roy's motorcycle slammed into Czornobaj's Honda Civic after the
woman stopped in the left lane of Highway 30 in Candiac, Quebec
on June 27, 2010. Jessie was sitting on the back of her dad's
Harley-Davidson.
Pauline Volikakis was riding her own motorbike behind her
husband and daughter, and watched in horror as they were thrown
into the air.
Volikakis briefly fought back tears when she left the courtroom.
'I don't wish misfortune on anyone,' the widow said. 'It's time
that we go on. This will not bring (back) my loved ones.'
She said she hoped publicity of the case will reinforce a basic
message to drivers.
'Future and present drivers should know that we don�t stop on
highways, and it�s very dangerous. Even if it�s a small animal
that we like or that we want to preserve, we should not stop on
the highways,' she said. 'It�s not a place to stop.'
Czornobaj, a self-professed animal lover, told the court that
she did not see the ducklings' mother anywhere and planned to
capture them and take them home.
She had three years driving experience at the time of the
accident.
National Post reported Czornobaj, who doesn't have a criminal
record, was willing to plead guilty as recently as April but
refused to do jail time.
Her lawyer Marc Labelle said his client was stunned by the
jury's decision. He said he may appeal.
'So now we are at the sentencing stage in this case. The
question we have to ask is that considering the nature of the
facts, it is rare that we have criminal negligence where there
are no bad elements,' Labelle said.
'This was not a race. This was not a person who took a chance
and drove drunk. This is not about someone who was speeding and
took a risky maneuver.'
During the trial, witness Martine Tessier testified that she
noticed parked car didn't have its hazards on and that the
driver's door was open.
She also said she saw Czornobaj motioning to some ducks on the
side of the road.
'I shouted to my [three] children: �What is she doing there?
She�s going to get killed',' Tessier said, according to National
Post.
'I saw a body go over the car. It looked like a rag doll. I
shouted to my daughter to call 911.'
Prosecutor Annie-Claude Chasse had a message for motorists.
'What we hope is that a clear message is sent to society that we
do not stop on the highway for animals. It's not worth it,' she
said.
Czornobaj left the courthouse without commenting.
According to National Post, she is a financial analyst who
graduated from Concordia�s John Molson School of Business where
she made the dean�s list.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2663995/Canada-woman-
stops-ducks-guilty-2-deaths.html
This woman is a complete idiot and should be beaten to death
with motorcycle chains.
The Real Bev
Jun 22, 2014, 12:34:24 AM6/22/14
to
On 06/21/2014 08:43 PM, Yes They Walk Among Us wrote:
> A woman who parked her car on a highway to rescue ducklings has
> been found guilty of causing the deaths of a motorcyclist and
> his daughter who slammed into her vehicle.
>
> Emma Czornobaj was convicted by a jury on Friday on two counts
> of criminal negligence causing death, a charge that carries a
> maximum life sentence, and two counts of dangerous driving
> causing death, which comes with a maximum of 14 years in jail.
What she'll probably get: 2 years and 1000 hours of community service.
> A woman who parked her car on a highway to rescue ducklings has
> been found guilty of causing the deaths of a motorcyclist and
> his daughter who slammed into her vehicle.
>
> Emma Czornobaj was convicted by a jury on Friday on two counts
> of criminal negligence causing death, a charge that carries a
> maximum life sentence, and two counts of dangerous driving
> causing death, which comes with a maximum of 14 years in jail.
> The 25-year-old was charged in the deaths of Andre Roy, 50, and
> his daughter Jessie, 16.
>
> She wiped away tears when the verdict was delivered to a packed
> courtroom in Montreal.
>
> Quebec Superior Court Justice Eliane Perreault said the 12-
> member jury voted unanimously.
>
> Czornobaj was released until her pre-sentence hearing on August
> 8.
>
> Roy's motorcycle slammed into Czornobaj's Honda Civic after the
> woman stopped in the left lane of Highway 30 in Candiac, Quebec
> on June 27, 2010. Jessie was sitting on the back of her dad's
> Harley-Davidson.
>
> Pauline Volikakis was riding her own motorbike behind her
> husband and daughter, and watched in horror as they were thrown
> into the air.
>
> Volikakis briefly fought back tears when she left the courtroom.
>
> 'I don't wish misfortune on anyone,' the widow said. 'It's time
> that we go on. This will not bring (back) my loved ones.'
>
> She said she hoped publicity of the case will reinforce a basic
> message to drivers.
>
> highways, and it�s very dangerous. Even if it�s a small animal
> that we like or that we want to preserve, we should not stop on
> the highways,' she said. 'It�s not a place to stop.'
>
> Czornobaj, a self-professed animal lover, told the court that
> she did not see the ducklings' mother anywhere and planned to
> capture them and take them home.
>
> She had three years driving experience at the time of the
> accident.
>
> National Post reported Czornobaj, who doesn't have a criminal
> record, was willing to plead guilty as recently as April but
> refused to do jail time.
Refused to do jail time for killing two people. I guess she thought a
> Czornobaj, a self-professed animal lover, told the court that
> she did not see the ducklings' mother anywhere and planned to
> capture them and take them home.
>
> She had three years driving experience at the time of the
> accident.
>
> National Post reported Czornobaj, who doesn't have a criminal
> record, was willing to plead guilty as recently as April but
> refused to do jail time.
jury would be sympathetic and perhaps give her some sort of humanitarian
award. After all, ducklings are cute.
> Her lawyer Marc Labelle said his client was stunned by the
> jury's decision. He said he may appeal.
> 'So now we are at the sentencing stage in this case. The
> question we have to ask is that considering the nature of the
> facts, it is rare that we have criminal negligence where there
> are no bad elements,' Labelle said.
>
> 'This was not a race. This was not a person who took a chance
> and drove drunk. This is not about someone who was speeding and
> took a risky maneuver.'
allowed to live in society.
> During the trial, witness Martine Tessier testified that she
> noticed parked car didn't have its hazards on and that the
> driver's door was open.
>
> She also said she saw Czornobaj motioning to some ducks on the
> side of the road.
> 'I shouted to my [three] children: �What is she doing there?
> She�s going to get killed',' Tessier said, according to National
> Post.
>
> 'I saw a body go over the car. It looked like a rag doll. I
> shouted to my daughter to call 911.'
>
> Prosecutor Annie-Claude Chasse had a message for motorists.
>
> 'What we hope is that a clear message is sent to society that we
> do not stop on the highway for animals. It's not worth it,' she
> said.
>
> Czornobaj left the courthouse without commenting.
>
> According to National Post, she is a financial analyst who
> graduated from Concordia�s John Molson School of Business where
>
> 'I saw a body go over the car. It looked like a rag doll. I
> shouted to my daughter to call 911.'
>
> Prosecutor Annie-Claude Chasse had a message for motorists.
>
> 'What we hope is that a clear message is sent to society that we
> do not stop on the highway for animals. It's not worth it,' she
> said.
>
> Czornobaj left the courthouse without commenting.
>
> According to National Post, she is a financial analyst who
> she made the dean�s list.
Have they attempted to revoke her degree yet?
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2663995/Canada-woman-
> stops-ducks-guilty-2-deaths.html
>
> This woman is a complete idiot and should be beaten to death
> with motorcycle chains.
--
Cheers, Bev
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"The language of victimization is infinitely extensible." -- Me
richard
Jun 22, 2014, 12:56:04 AM6/22/14
to
On Sun, 22 Jun 2014 05:43:19 +0200 (CEST), Yes They Walk Among Us wrote:
> A woman who parked her car on a highway to rescue ducklings has
> been found guilty of causing the deaths of a motorcyclist and
> his daughter who slammed into her vehicle.
>
Did anyone bother to ask just how close to the car the motorcyle was before
> A woman who parked her car on a highway to rescue ducklings has
> been found guilty of causing the deaths of a motorcyclist and
> his daughter who slammed into her vehicle.
>
they collided?
Did the biker not have sufficient time to maneuver out of the way?
IOW, was the biker tailgating?
Did the biker not have clear vision of the parked vehicle?
If he did, why not maneuver around it?
If you can't tell if a vehicle is parked, it's damn time you got off that
bike and parked it.
The Real Bev
Jun 22, 2014, 2:50:15 AM6/22/14
to
inattention, oil on the road, boxed in by a car on the right? Did the
passenger move injudiciously? Still, stopping in a traffic lane is
automatically a hazard and the stupid cow is lucky she herself wasn't
killed. Would it have been different if her car had stalled?
And did she get to keep the ducks?
--
Cheers, Bev
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey
and car keys to teenage boys." -- P.J. O'Rourke
Dhu on Gate
Jun 23, 2014, 9:35:54 AM6/23/14
to
On Sat, 21 Jun 2014 21:34:24 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
>> 'This was not a race. This was not a person who took a chance
>> and drove drunk. This is not about someone who was speeding and
>> took a risky maneuver.'
>
> This is about criminal stupidity. People this stupid should not be
> allowed to live in society.
Seems to me that most of the people we have in gaol fall into similar
>> 'This was not a race. This was not a person who took a chance
>> and drove drunk. This is not about someone who was speeding and
>> took a risky maneuver.'
>
> This is about criminal stupidity. People this stupid should not be
> allowed to live in society.
categories, either by defective hardware or educational deprivation.
Which is what bothers me about the "punitive" nature of incarceration:
it's worthless to all and impairs our ability to restrict the damage
done by idiots.
Dhu
>
>> During the trial, witness Martine Tessier testified that she
>> noticed parked car didn't have its hazards on and that the
>> driver's door was open.
Ne obliviscaris, vix ea nostra voco.
The Real Bev
Jun 23, 2014, 4:38:23 PM6/23/14
to
On 06/23/2014 06:35 AM, Dhu on Gate wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Jun 2014 21:34:24 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
>
>>> 'This was not a race. This was not a person who took a chance
>>> and drove drunk. This is not about someone who was speeding and
>>> took a risky maneuver.'
>>
>> This is about criminal stupidity. People this stupid should not be
>> allowed to live in society.
>
> Seems to me that most of the people we have in gaol fall into similar
> categories, either by defective hardware or educational deprivation.
You can have a rotten education and still be smart or a good education
> On Sat, 21 Jun 2014 21:34:24 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
>
>>> 'This was not a race. This was not a person who took a chance
>>> and drove drunk. This is not about someone who was speeding and
>>> took a risky maneuver.'
>>
>> This is about criminal stupidity. People this stupid should not be
>> allowed to live in society.
>
> Seems to me that most of the people we have in gaol fall into similar
> categories, either by defective hardware or educational deprivation.
and be stupid. We probably don't hear much about the smart criminals.
> Which is what bothers me about the "punitive" nature of incarceration:
> it's worthless to all and impairs our ability to restrict the damage
> done by idiots.
For some levels of stupidity segregation is really the only answer.
Don't hurt them, just put them somewhere where they can't hurt anybody
else. This includes the people who used to be locked up for their own
safety and the safety of others and who seem to now be the bulk of the
homeless population.
--
Cheers, Bev
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Will give investment advice for food.
Barry Bruyea
Jun 23, 2014, 4:50:38 PM6/23/14
to
On Mon, 23 Jun 2014 13:38:23 -0700, The Real Bev
<bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 06/23/2014 06:35 AM, Dhu on Gate wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 21 Jun 2014 21:34:24 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
>>
>>>> 'This was not a race. This was not a person who took a chance
>>>> and drove drunk. This is not about someone who was speeding and
>>>> took a risky maneuver.'
>>>
>>> This is about criminal stupidity. People this stupid should not be
>>> allowed to live in society.
>>
>> Seems to me that most of the people we have in gaol fall into similar
>> categories, either by defective hardware or educational deprivation.
>
>You can have a rotten education and still be smart or a good education
>and be stupid. We probably don't hear much about the smart criminals.
We used to have an idiot frequent poster who categorically stated
<bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 06/23/2014 06:35 AM, Dhu on Gate wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 21 Jun 2014 21:34:24 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
>>
>>>> 'This was not a race. This was not a person who took a chance
>>>> and drove drunk. This is not about someone who was speeding and
>>>> took a risky maneuver.'
>>>
>>> This is about criminal stupidity. People this stupid should not be
>>> allowed to live in society.
>>
>> Seems to me that most of the people we have in gaol fall into similar
>> categories, either by defective hardware or educational deprivation.
>
>You can have a rotten education and still be smart or a good education
>and be stupid. We probably don't hear much about the smart criminals.
Education was an indicator of intelligence. I'v always maintained that
the two just don't equate.
Brent
Jun 23, 2014, 6:24:50 PM6/23/14
to
The car was stopped in the left lane of a limited access highway in a
curve. The vehicle in front of the motorcyclist changed lanes veering
out of the way at the last moment exposing the parked vehicle. The
motorcyclist was also distracted by the woman wandering in traffic.
richard
Jun 23, 2014, 8:22:40 PM6/23/14
to
One time when I was riding my bike, I came upon a stalled car in the left
lane, and it took me a few seconds to realize that.
I hit both brakes hard and stopped within a few feet of the car.
J. Clarke
Jun 25, 2014, 6:05:06 AM6/25/14
to
In article <6b5eb31f9c02b6dd...@dizum.com>,
idi...@liberalism.org says...
> 'Future and present drivers should know that we don?t stop on
> highways, and it?s very dangerous. Even if it?s a small animal
> She?s going to get killed',' Tessier said, according to National
> she made the dean?s list.
womnan who stopped and nobody is beating up the out-to-lunch rider who
managed to kill himself and his daughter through inattention.
If there is a car stopped in the road, you avoid hitting it. If you
cannot see far enough ahead to avoid seeing and hitting a car stopped in
the middle of the road, then slow down.
Perhaps saving ducks is not a valid reason for the woman to stop,
however if she had stopped because a child was in the road, or a massive
piece of truck tire tread, or a limb down, or a moose, the hitting of
which would have totalled her car and left her stopped in the middle or
the road a few feet farther down, for that matter a wrecked motorcycle,
the outcome would have been the same, this same rider would have killed
himself and his daughter.
I'm sorry, but the lesson to be learned here is not "throw the book at
any motorist who stops in the road", the lesson is "ride so you can
avoid hitting motorists stopped in the road".
idi...@liberalism.org says...
> highways, and it?s very dangerous. Even if it?s a small animal
> that we like or that we want to preserve, we should not stop on
> the highways,' she said. 'It?s not a place to stop.'
>
> Czornobaj, a self-professed animal lover, told the court that
> she did not see the ducklings' mother anywhere and planned to
> capture them and take them home.
>
> She had three years driving experience at the time of the
> accident.
>
> National Post reported Czornobaj, who doesn't have a criminal
> record, was willing to plead guilty as recently as April but
> refused to do jail time.
>
> Her lawyer Marc Labelle said his client was stunned by the
> jury's decision. He said he may appeal.
>
> 'So now we are at the sentencing stage in this case. The
> question we have to ask is that considering the nature of the
> facts, it is rare that we have criminal negligence where there
> are no bad elements,' Labelle said.
>
> 'This was not a race. This was not a person who took a chance
> and drove drunk. This is not about someone who was speeding and
> took a risky maneuver.'
>
> During the trial, witness Martine Tessier testified that she
> noticed parked car didn't have its hazards on and that the
> driver's door was open.
>
> She also said she saw Czornobaj motioning to some ducks on the
> side of the road.
>
> 'I shouted to my [three] children: ?What is she doing there?
> Czornobaj, a self-professed animal lover, told the court that
> she did not see the ducklings' mother anywhere and planned to
> capture them and take them home.
>
> She had three years driving experience at the time of the
> accident.
>
> National Post reported Czornobaj, who doesn't have a criminal
> record, was willing to plead guilty as recently as April but
> refused to do jail time.
>
> Her lawyer Marc Labelle said his client was stunned by the
> jury's decision. He said he may appeal.
>
> 'So now we are at the sentencing stage in this case. The
> question we have to ask is that considering the nature of the
> facts, it is rare that we have criminal negligence where there
> are no bad elements,' Labelle said.
>
> 'This was not a race. This was not a person who took a chance
> and drove drunk. This is not about someone who was speeding and
> took a risky maneuver.'
>
> During the trial, witness Martine Tessier testified that she
> noticed parked car didn't have its hazards on and that the
> driver's door was open.
>
> She also said she saw Czornobaj motioning to some ducks on the
> side of the road.
>
> She?s going to get killed',' Tessier said, according to National
> Post.
>
> 'I saw a body go over the car. It looked like a rag doll. I
> shouted to my daughter to call 911.'
>
> Prosecutor Annie-Claude Chasse had a message for motorists.
>
> 'What we hope is that a clear message is sent to society that we
> do not stop on the highway for animals. It's not worth it,' she
> said.
>
> Czornobaj left the courthouse without commenting.
>
> According to National Post, she is a financial analyst who
> graduated from Concordia?s John Molson School of Business where
>
> 'I saw a body go over the car. It looked like a rag doll. I
> shouted to my daughter to call 911.'
>
> Prosecutor Annie-Claude Chasse had a message for motorists.
>
> 'What we hope is that a clear message is sent to society that we
> do not stop on the highway for animals. It's not worth it,' she
> said.
>
> Czornobaj left the courthouse without commenting.
>
> According to National Post, she is a financial analyst who
> she made the dean?s list.
>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2663995/Canada-woman-
> stops-ducks-guilty-2-deaths.html
>
> This woman is a complete idiot and should be beaten to death
> with motorcycle chains.
The thing that bothers me about this is that everybody is beating up the
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2663995/Canada-woman-
> stops-ducks-guilty-2-deaths.html
>
> This woman is a complete idiot and should be beaten to death
> with motorcycle chains.
womnan who stopped and nobody is beating up the out-to-lunch rider who
managed to kill himself and his daughter through inattention.
If there is a car stopped in the road, you avoid hitting it. If you
cannot see far enough ahead to avoid seeing and hitting a car stopped in
the middle of the road, then slow down.
Perhaps saving ducks is not a valid reason for the woman to stop,
however if she had stopped because a child was in the road, or a massive
piece of truck tire tread, or a limb down, or a moose, the hitting of
which would have totalled her car and left her stopped in the middle or
the road a few feet farther down, for that matter a wrecked motorcycle,
the outcome would have been the same, this same rider would have killed
himself and his daughter.
I'm sorry, but the lesson to be learned here is not "throw the book at
any motorist who stops in the road", the lesson is "ride so you can
avoid hitting motorists stopped in the road".
M.I.Wakefield
Jun 25, 2014, 8:56:05 AM6/25/14
to
"J. Clarke" wrote in message
news:MPG.2e1468d95...@news.newsguy.com...
normal conditions, traffic if the left lane would be moving at about 70 mph,
or more.
news:MPG.2e1468d95...@news.newsguy.com...
> > Roy's motorcycle slammed into Czornobaj's Honda Civic after the
> > woman stopped in the left lane of Highway 30 in Candiac, Quebec
> > on June 27, 2010. Jessie was sitting on the back of her dad's
> > Harley-Davidson.
> > woman stopped in the left lane of Highway 30 in Candiac, Quebec
> > on June 27, 2010. Jessie was sitting on the back of her dad's
> > Harley-Davidson.
> The thing that bothers me about this is that everybody is beating up the
> womnan who stopped and nobody is beating up the out-to-lunch rider who
> managed to kill himself and his daughter through inattention.
>
> If there is a car stopped in the road, you avoid hitting it. If you
> cannot see far enough ahead to avoid seeing and hitting a car stopped in
> the middle of the road, then slow down.
For reference, Highway 30 is the equivalent of a US interstate, and under
> womnan who stopped and nobody is beating up the out-to-lunch rider who
> managed to kill himself and his daughter through inattention.
>
> If there is a car stopped in the road, you avoid hitting it. If you
> cannot see far enough ahead to avoid seeing and hitting a car stopped in
> the middle of the road, then slow down.
normal conditions, traffic if the left lane would be moving at about 70 mph,
or more.
Dave Smith
Jun 25, 2014, 9:03:49 AM6/25/14
to
Dave Smith
Jun 25, 2014, 9:16:33 AM6/25/14
to
On 2014-06-25 6:05 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> This woman is a complete idiot and should be beaten to death
>> with motorcycle chains.
>
> The thing that bothers me about this is that everybody is beating up the
> womnan who stopped and nobody is beating up the out-to-lunch rider who
> managed to kill himself and his daughter through inattention.
We had a similar case to that a few years ago. A car and a motorcyclist
>> with motorcycle chains.
>
> The thing that bothers me about this is that everybody is beating up the
> womnan who stopped and nobody is beating up the out-to-lunch rider who
> managed to kill himself and his daughter through inattention.
crashed head on in front of my neighbour's house. The old lady driving
the car had moved over to avoid some geese that were walking across the
road. She had not yet got back to the right side of the road when the
motorcycle crested the hill and they collided.
The cops closed the road for hours while they did the reconstruction and
determined that the cyclist's speed was not a factor because there was
only about 1 foot of rubber from the bike braking. That was curious
because I used to get home from work at 3:45 and for the last week and a
half, since motorcycle season had opened. The kid used to get home from
school, hop on his crotch rocket and then come flying down our street, a
60 kph zone, doing well over 100 kph.
It was just a matter of time before this kid got killed, and it is a bit
of a relief that he did not take someone else out with him, but they
really socked it to the old lady. Sure, she was on the wrong side of
the road, but if he had been driving at or near the 60 kph speed limit,
they both would have had time to react.
> Perhaps saving ducks is not a valid reason for the woman to stop,
crossing at a controlled intersection and glanced to the right to see
traffic stopped and a woman shooing a family of ducks across the highway.
>
J. Clarke
Jun 25, 2014, 9:52:22 AM6/25/14
to
In article <loegt8$sej$1...@dont-email.me>, no...@present.com says...
If traffic is moving 70 mph under conditions that do not allow one to
see an obstacle and stop before striking it at that speed, then
regardless of the speed limit one should not be riding 70 MPH on that
road at that time. I'm sorry, but it being a divided highway with a
high speed limit does not justify inattentive riding.
There are many reasons that that object in front of you might be
stationary. Ducks may not be a good one but moose, child, tree limb,
tire tread, scrap metal, lumber, all sorts of things could be
obstructing the road. And if you can't stop in time to avoid hitting a
car then you can't stop in time to avoid hitting whatever equally lethal
obstacle it might be stopped for.
Note by the way that I do have a dog in this hunt--I was driving along
one rainy night in Atlanta and rearended a guy who was double-parked
with no lights on. While I agree that he was at fault for double
parking at night in the rain without compelling reason I do not delude
myself that I was exercising proper caution.
I also witnessed a situation where the motorist was entirely at fault in
my opinion. A woman stopped her car in front of the mechanical
engineering building at Georgia Tech just as I was coming out of a
class. There was a guy on a Harley coming the other way. He was about
ten feet away from her when she opened her door, which he of course hit
resulting in major damage to the bike and to him. Now _that_ is one
they should have thrown the book at.
see an obstacle and stop before striking it at that speed, then
regardless of the speed limit one should not be riding 70 MPH on that
road at that time. I'm sorry, but it being a divided highway with a
high speed limit does not justify inattentive riding.
There are many reasons that that object in front of you might be
stationary. Ducks may not be a good one but moose, child, tree limb,
tire tread, scrap metal, lumber, all sorts of things could be
obstructing the road. And if you can't stop in time to avoid hitting a
car then you can't stop in time to avoid hitting whatever equally lethal
obstacle it might be stopped for.
Note by the way that I do have a dog in this hunt--I was driving along
one rainy night in Atlanta and rearended a guy who was double-parked
with no lights on. While I agree that he was at fault for double
parking at night in the rain without compelling reason I do not delude
myself that I was exercising proper caution.
I also witnessed a situation where the motorist was entirely at fault in
my opinion. A woman stopped her car in front of the mechanical
engineering building at Georgia Tech just as I was coming out of a
class. There was a guy on a Harley coming the other way. He was about
ten feet away from her when she opened her door, which he of course hit
resulting in major damage to the bike and to him. Now _that_ is one
they should have thrown the book at.
Brent
Jun 25, 2014, 12:05:44 PM6/25/14
to
On 2014-06-25, Dave Smith <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> We had a similar case to that a few years ago. A car and a motorcyclist
> crashed head on in front of my neighbour's house. The old lady driving
> the car had moved over to avoid some geese that were walking across the
> road. She had not yet got back to the right side of the road when the
> motorcycle crested the hill and they collided.
>
> The cops closed the road for hours while they did the reconstruction and
> determined that the cyclist's speed was not a factor because there was
> only about 1 foot of rubber from the bike braking. That was curious
> because I used to get home from work at 3:45 and for the last week and a
> half, since motorcycle season had opened. The kid used to get home from
> school, hop on his crotch rocket and then come flying down our street, a
> 60 kph zone, doing well over 100 kph.
>
> It was just a matter of time before this kid got killed, and it is a bit
> of a relief that he did not take someone else out with him, but they
> really socked it to the old lady. Sure, she was on the wrong side of
> the road, but if he had been driving at or near the 60 kph speed limit,
> they both would have had time to react.
60+60 = 120 kph closing speed. 60+100=160kph closing speed
> We had a similar case to that a few years ago. A car and a motorcyclist
> crashed head on in front of my neighbour's house. The old lady driving
> the car had moved over to avoid some geese that were walking across the
> road. She had not yet got back to the right side of the road when the
> motorcycle crested the hill and they collided.
>
> The cops closed the road for hours while they did the reconstruction and
> determined that the cyclist's speed was not a factor because there was
> only about 1 foot of rubber from the bike braking. That was curious
> because I used to get home from work at 3:45 and for the last week and a
> half, since motorcycle season had opened. The kid used to get home from
> school, hop on his crotch rocket and then come flying down our street, a
> 60 kph zone, doing well over 100 kph.
>
> It was just a matter of time before this kid got killed, and it is a bit
> of a relief that he did not take someone else out with him, but they
> really socked it to the old lady. Sure, she was on the wrong side of
> the road, but if he had been driving at or near the 60 kph speed limit,
> they both would have had time to react.
160-120=40 40/120 = 1/3 100kph = 28m/s 1/3 of a meter (braking
distance in story above) is covered in 0.012 seconds plus a bit
(slowing through that foot). Now he gains a third of that or 0.004
seconds plus a bit, call it 0.008s for the sake of argument. Then a
third of his reaction time, 0.62 seconds/3 = .207s. So he gains a total
of .215 seconds. He still sounds dead to me.
reaction time from here: http://www.bikesafer.com/detail/braketime.html
Dave Smith
Jun 25, 2014, 3:52:33 PM6/25/14
to
ruled out speed as a factor. I guess it never occurred to him that the
small skid mark so close to the impact would indicate that they were
applied late... just before impact. You might have thought that the
debris field would have indicated speed. Bike parts were scattered
across the neighbour's lawns, and these are rural properties with houses
set back 100 feet or more.
The problem was that this rural road has dips and rises, blind
intersections, no shoulders, and has wildlife and domestic animals
nearby, like the flock of geese that was walking across it that day. The
geese were one of the dips, which is natural because they like water and
water lies in the low spots. The old lady moved over to the other lane
to avoid the geese. They kid came flying along, crested the hill and
there she was in his lane.
If he had been travelling somewhere closer to the posted speed she might
have seen him. He might had seen her in time to react. He was going so
fast that he pretty much came out of nowhere for her, and no time to
react at his incredible speed.
I saw that kid go flying by every day for a week and a half before that
crash. I figured that it was just a matter of time before he got himself
killed, but the old lady was made out to be the baddie in that one.
Kevin Bottorff
Jun 25, 2014, 6:09:24 PM6/25/14
to
Dave Smith <adavid...@sympatico.ca> wrote in
news:1MFqv.64131$vf1....@fx06.iad:
It was deff. all her falt. you can not be in the wrong lane, period. she
should have stopped if avoiding the wildlife ment that much to her. He
may have been speeding but if she wasn`t in the wrong place it wouldn`t
have happened. All her fault. KB
news:1MFqv.64131$vf1....@fx06.iad:
should have stopped if avoiding the wildlife ment that much to her. He
may have been speeding but if she wasn`t in the wrong place it wouldn`t
have happened. All her fault. KB
Bill Steele
Jun 25, 2014, 6:26:09 PM6/25/14
to
In article <1MFqv.64131$vf1....@fx06.iad>
Yeah but that stupid bleeding heart bitch in the Honda still
killed two people. She should get the maximum time in jail. If
she gets off easy, karma in the form of an 18-wheeler will
cleanse her from the gene pool for the rest of us.
killed two people. She should get the maximum time in jail. If
she gets off easy, karma in the form of an 18-wheeler will
cleanse her from the gene pool for the rest of us.
Brent
Jun 25, 2014, 9:38:00 PM6/25/14
to
The only thing that could have saved him is not being there when she
crossed over the center line. His speed simply wouldn't make the
difference at that location. His speed, faster or slower would have put
him at a different location. So would leaving earlier or later. Or
catching a red light or not catching a red light.
like most 'speed kills' instances, what really killed was being in the
wrong place at the wrong time.
Peter
Jun 25, 2014, 9:57:12 PM6/25/14
to
It's the sudden stop.
--
:-P
Alan Baker
Jun 26, 2014, 1:10:22 AM6/26/14
to
If you hit a stopped object in your travel lane, it is YOUR fault in
almost every circumstance.
Thomas
Jun 26, 2014, 2:05:01 AM6/26/14
to
On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 22:10:22 -0700, Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net>
wrote:
> If you hit a stopped object in your travel lane, it is YOUR fault in
> almost every circumstance.
Almost. On that highway, there is a minimum speed limit of 60kph.
wrote:
> If you hit a stopped object in your travel lane, it is YOUR fault in
> almost every circumstance.
Alan Baker
Jun 26, 2014, 2:21:18 AM6/26/14
to
It is an absolute ironclad rule that you should never drive at a speed
beyond your ability to stop for unexpected hazards.
If you come around the corner on a mountain highway and find a rock,
you should be traveling no faster than the speed required to stop
before you hit it.
J. Clarke
Jun 26, 2014, 7:08:45 AM6/26/14
to
In article <log9vt$lo7$1...@news.datemas.de>, alang...@telus.net says...
That depends on the circumstances under which it stopped and where it
was in relation to you at the time. In parts of Europe it is becoming
SOP to install a dash camera for the reason demonstrated in
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1GQncXsHCE>. Note the number of
drivers who cut close in front of the bus and slam on the brakes. Most
of them are intending to make out in a claim against the bus company.
The camera shows what really happened.
If it was stationary before it came into your line of sight I agree with
you that it's your fault if you hit it.
There are some roads around here that actually have no safe speed. If
you're going slowly enough that you can stop before you hit whatever is
over the hill then you're at risk from the idiot behind you.
was in relation to you at the time. In parts of Europe it is becoming
SOP to install a dash camera for the reason demonstrated in
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1GQncXsHCE>. Note the number of
drivers who cut close in front of the bus and slam on the brakes. Most
of them are intending to make out in a claim against the bus company.
The camera shows what really happened.
If it was stationary before it came into your line of sight I agree with
you that it's your fault if you hit it.
There are some roads around here that actually have no safe speed. If
you're going slowly enough that you can stop before you hit whatever is
over the hill then you're at risk from the idiot behind you.
J. Clarke
Jun 26, 2014, 8:02:53 AM6/26/14
to
In article <loge4v$ssh$1...@news.datemas.de>, alang...@telus.net says...
Deer, moose, and bears do not give a crap about speed limits, nor do
they exercise due caution in crossing or traveling on roads and you do
_not_ want to hit any of them while riding a motorcycle.
they exercise due caution in crossing or traveling on roads and you do
_not_ want to hit any of them while riding a motorcycle.
Kevin Bottorff
Jun 26, 2014, 12:05:23 PM6/26/14
to
"J. Clarke" <jclark...@cox.net> wrote in
news:MPG.2e15d1dd6...@news.newsguy.com:
I wasn`t argueing the fact he was a idiot. that may be, but the fact
remains she was where she should not have been. thats why whey threw the
book at her. (wrong side of the road) if they had determined speed was a
factor he would have shared blame. KB
news:MPG.2e15d1dd6...@news.newsguy.com:
remains she was where she should not have been. thats why whey threw the
book at her. (wrong side of the road) if they had determined speed was a
factor he would have shared blame. KB
Thomas
Jun 26, 2014, 3:00:24 PM6/26/14
to
On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 23:21:18 -0700, Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net>
she incurs some blame.
wrote:
> On 2014-06-26 06:05:01 +0000, Thomas said:
>
>> On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 22:10:22 -0700, Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> If you hit a stopped object in your travel lane, it is YOUR fault in
>>> almost every circumstance.
>> Almost. On that highway, there is a minimum speed limit of 60kph.
>
> That is irrelevant.
Relevant. She was breaking the law when the incident occurred, therefore
> On 2014-06-26 06:05:01 +0000, Thomas said:
>
>> On Wed, 25 Jun 2014 22:10:22 -0700, Alan Baker <alang...@telus.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> If you hit a stopped object in your travel lane, it is YOUR fault in
>>> almost every circumstance.
>> Almost. On that highway, there is a minimum speed limit of 60kph.
>
> That is irrelevant.
she incurs some blame.
SpamTheSpammers
Jun 26, 2014, 8:18:56 PM6/26/14
to
=============================================================
TOPIC HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS - DROP DEAD
=============================================================
Chase Rizzo
Jul 9, 2014, 1:37:12 AM7/9/14
to
On 23 Jun 2014, Barry Bruyea <damnthet...@duck.com> posted some
news:7e4hq9pk1b9d4q0so...@4ax.com:
> On Mon, 23 Jun 2014 13:38:23 -0700, The Real Bev
><bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On 06/23/2014 06:35 AM, Dhu on Gate wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 21 Jun 2014 21:34:24 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>
>>>>> 'This was not a race. This was not a person who took a chance
>>>>> and drove drunk. This is not about someone who was speeding and
>>>>> took a risky maneuver.'
>>>>
>>>> This is about criminal stupidity. People this stupid should not be
>>>> allowed to live in society.
>>>
>>> Seems to me that most of the people we have in gaol fall into similar
>>> categories, either by defective hardware or educational deprivation.
>>
>>You can have a rotten education and still be smart or a good education
>>and be stupid. We probably don't hear much about the smart criminals.
>
> We used to have an idiot frequent poster who categorically stated
> Education was an indicator of intelligence. I'v always maintained that
> the two just don't equate.
Education is a wonderful thing, but it's just another enabling tool, not a
functional component of individual ability and success.
You are what you are, and you will do what you will, with the abilities
you have.
Some people are just plain book smarter than others, but they still hit
themselves in the head with a hammer every other swing.
news:7e4hq9pk1b9d4q0so...@4ax.com:
> On Mon, 23 Jun 2014 13:38:23 -0700, The Real Bev
><bashl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On 06/23/2014 06:35 AM, Dhu on Gate wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 21 Jun 2014 21:34:24 -0700, The Real Bev wrote:
>>>
>>>>> 'This was not a race. This was not a person who took a chance
>>>>> and drove drunk. This is not about someone who was speeding and
>>>>> took a risky maneuver.'
>>>>
>>>> This is about criminal stupidity. People this stupid should not be
>>>> allowed to live in society.
>>>
>>> Seems to me that most of the people we have in gaol fall into similar
>>> categories, either by defective hardware or educational deprivation.
>>
>>You can have a rotten education and still be smart or a good education
>>and be stupid. We probably don't hear much about the smart criminals.
>
> We used to have an idiot frequent poster who categorically stated
> Education was an indicator of intelligence. I'v always maintained that
> the two just don't equate.
functional component of individual ability and success.
You are what you are, and you will do what you will, with the abilities
you have.
Some people are just plain book smarter than others, but they still hit
themselves in the head with a hammer every other swing.
SpamTheSpammers
Jul 9, 2014, 3:03:02 PM7/9/14
to
=============================================================
TOPIC HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CANADIAN NEWSGROUPS - DROP DEAD
=============================================================
I'm a forger, troll, and spammer into non-relevant groups. It's because
I'm a total ass.
Killfile me and save time and space.
A FEW OF MY OTHER NYMS:
Nobody <n...@home.anymore> AKA
& <ampersand...@gmail.com> AKA
Chase Rizzo <cri...@aol.com> AKA
John Doe <j...@usenetlove.invalid> AKA
Raymond Wilcox <rwi...@gmail.com>
Ken <flak...@aol.com> AKA
Sebelius Crimes <jailth...@kathleen.sebelius.com> AKA
"K. Russo" <kru...@uci.edu> AKA
Toby Jackson <tjac...@lsu.edu> AKA
Peter Lucas <plu...@att.net> AKA
Urabi <ur...@aol.com> AKA
abelincoln <deport.al...@theborder.com> AKA
"Ben G. Hazi" <beng...@hillaryclinton.com> AKA
Chaz Mo <cha...@outlook.com> AKA
Craig Zimmerman <czimm...@aol.com> etc.
Video
Jul 9, 2014, 3:58:24 PM7/9/14
to
In article <mlgvv.180578$8d3.1...@fx01.iad>
SpamTheSpammers
Jul 9, 2014, 8:49:10 PM7/9/14
to
=============================================================
TOPIC HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ABOVE NEWSGROUPS - DROP DEAD
=============================================================
On 7/8/2014 10:37 PM, Chase Rizzo wrote:
On 7/8/2014 10:37 PM, Chase Rizzo wrote:
0 new messages