in the garden

[Timothy Sutter]

Sing a song of sixpence a pocket full of rye,
Four and twenty blackbirds baked in a pie.
When the pie was opened the birds began to sing,
Oh wasn't that a dainty dish to set before the king?
The king was in his counting house counting out his money,
The queen was in the parlour eating bread and honey
The maid was in the garden hanging out the clothes,
When down came a blackbird and pecked off her nose!

[Spanky]

I like eating.

[Spanky]

Eating computer languages. I eat them a lot. I eat a lot. Because
alot is not a word, otherwise isnot could be a word. It probably is in
some computer languages though. Maybe comp.lang.c will know. Posted
there. Or not.

[Timothy Sutter]

Spanky wrote:

> I like eating.

i realize it's not much to brag about, but,

i've never eaten crow.

the crows haven't pecked out my eyes yet, either

so, we're even.

i fed some crows, and some bluejays too,

they'll both eat peanuts

crows will eat meat,

but i've never seen a bluejay eat meat.

apparently they have a place in the sky.

maybe that's something to crow about

but then they may have to eat themselves...

[Timothy Sutter]

> > Timothy Sutter wrote:
> >> Sing a song of sixpence a pocket full of rye,
> >> Four and twenty blackbirds baked in a pie.
> >> When the pie was opened the birds began to sing,
> >> Oh wasn't that a dainty dish to set before the king?
> >> The king was in his counting house counting out his money,
> >> The queen was in the parlour eating bread and honey
> >> The maid was in the garden hanging out the clothes,
> >> When down came a blackbird and pecked off her nose!

Spanky wrote:
> I like eating.

> Eating computer languages. I eat them a lot. I eat a lot. Because
> alot is not a word, otherwise isnot could be a word. It probably is in
> some computer languages though.

words don't have to be written

but, you probably wouldn't say that "yard"

is a different word depending on regional accent

but, if you never rote it down, you may think so.

computers are like really really literal children.

you have to give them explicit instructions with

esssentially a one to one correspondence between

character set and elicitted response.

if you tell a machine that sometimes "blue"

means the color of a duck's neck or a jays tail

and sometimes, means a type of 'mood'

_it_ may tend relay a message back to you,

that a blue jay is always sad.

"isnot" can be interpretted by a machine to 'mean' +STOP+

if you instruct it that it means +STOP+ always

and, you instruct it, in what manner it must always react

when +STOP+ is placed in its path of interpretation.

like, you can't -just- tell 'it' that "isnot" means STOP

you also have to 'tell' 'it' what to do when it comes across STOP

cuz, 'it' could 'see' STOP, and keep right on going...

"ain't that right, Uh Huh?"

"uh huh"

[Keith Thompson]

[75 lines deleted]

Can you do us all a big favor and drop the comp.lang.c cross-post?

Thanks.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) ks...@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Nokia
"We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
-- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

[Timothy Sutter]

Keith Thompson wrote:

> Can you do us all a big favor and drop the comp.lang.c cross-post?

i didn't initiate the crosspost, so, you may ask the person who
initiated it.

do yourself a big favor and don't make an issue of it with me.

[Timothy Sutter]

Timothy Sutter wrote:

> Keith Thompson wrote:

> > Can you do us all a big favor and drop the comp.lang.c cross-post?

> i didn't initiate the crosspost, so,
> you may ask the person who initiated it.

and for all of the "us" who may or may not care;

i waited -2- days and no one said anything

to the initiator of the crosspost.

that's easily considered a "tacit" acceptance

of such a crosspost.

perhaps someone else sees the topicallity that you do not.

there, -now- i've done you a big favor.

[Kenny McCormack]

It sounds like you haven't been formally introdced to Mr. Kiki, master of
the universe, tompson. It is his whole reason for existence to be the CLC
cop. You'll have to get used to it...

--
Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is
no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.

- John Kenneth Galbraith -

[Timothy Sutter]

Kenny McCormack wrote:

> Timothy Sutter wrote:

> > Keith Thompson wrote:

> > > Can you do us all a big favor and drop the comp.lang.c cross-post?

> > i didn't initiate the crosspost, so,
> > you may ask the person who initiated it.

> > do yourself a big favor and don't make an issue of it with me.

> It sounds like you haven't been formally introdced to Mr. Kiki, master of
> the universe, tompson. It is his whole reason for existence to be the CLC
> cop. You'll have to get used to it...

he's very close to infringing upon

the group charter of alt.birdwatching.bluebirds

[Keith Thompson]

My request was not intended for you personally, but for anyone reading
the thread. Sorry if I implied otherwise.

[Timothy Sutter]

pick a year in the past,

study the charts and graphs from that year

and go back to it.

that's basically what it will take you

ten years to accomplish anyway

to get back to 20 years -ago-


right, it will take you ten years to slowly
get back to the reality which is 20 years -ago-


where 'reality' is real value

and the delusion is face value papered.


like, there are people walking around believing
they are 22 feet tall, when they are maybe 8 feet tall
and there's a lot of valueless air puming up this delusion.


so, either you wait it out and take ten years
to slowly fall back to a reality of 20 years ago,

or, you pick a number, and follow the true retrograde
to reality and just go back there.


it doesn't really matter -how- you got pumped up on goofballs


you -ain't- 22 feet tall and you aught to know it...


huh? what?


some of that -paper- "on the sidelines" so-called


has insufficient =face value= support


it's like you're really back in 1990 something, maybe...

and not in the 21st century...in practical reality...


and then there's all these poisonous bubbles on unca sam's body

that need a pin prick and all this poison spews out and not just air...



i know what i mean...

[Timothy Sutter]

> i know what i mean...

of course, it may not be 20 years ago...

it -could- be less, but

it seems obvious that we -ain't- up to date.


pick a year, got back to it,

and start over...

knowing now what you didn't know then...


yeah yeah yeah, i know you can't just

make all those 'new' -people- go away...


it's a frame of reference type of thing...


for X number of years -ago-

we aren't doing all that bad...

in fact, for X number of years -ago-


we're doing rather well...


comprendo???


that's what -is- happening anyway


whether you totally =like it= or not...


if you play your cards right,,,,


maybe you won't end up back in the 'dark ages'


not that that could happen;;;


PLEASE, TIM, TELL US WE AIN'T GOIN' BACK TO THE DARK AGES...


you'd certainly like to hope not...

[Timothy Sutter]

> it's a frame of reference type of thing...

> for X number of years -ago-

> we aren't doing all that bad...

> in fact, for X number of years -ago-

> we're doing rather well...

that's what i mean...

[Timothy Sutter]

> > it's a frame of reference type of thing...
> > for X number of years -ago-
> > we aren't doing all that bad...
> > in fact, for X number of years -ago-
> > we're doing rather well...

> that's what i mean...

yeah, i know, modern this and modern that,

here a modern there a modern everywhere a modern modern....

some of -that- you can keep...

some of it got to go...

you simply aren't -there- "yet"

[Timothy Sutter]

> > > it's a frame of reference type of thing...
> > > for X number of years -ago-
> > > we aren't doing all that bad...
> > > in fact, for X number of years -ago-
> > > we're doing rather well...

> > that's what i mean...

> yeah, i know, modern this and modern that,

> here a modern there a modern everywhere a modern modern....

> some of -that- you can keep...

> some of it got to go...

> you simply aren't -there- "yet"

but NOBODY and i mean NOBODY

is 22 feet tall,

get real doood

i don't care HOW MUCH -paper- you got in your wallet...

[Timothy Sutter]

> > > > it's a frame of reference type of thing...
> > > > for X number of years -ago-
> > > > we aren't doing all that bad...
> > > > in fact, for X number of years -ago-
> > > > we're doing rather well...

> > > that's what i mean...

> > yeah, i know, modern this and modern that,
> > here a modern there a modern everywhere a modern modern....
> > some of -that- you can keep...

> > some of it got to go...

> > you simply aren't -there- "yet"

> but NOBODY and i mean NOBODY

> is 22 feet tall,

> get real doood

right now, your "future" is a couple of years -ago-...

so what? it's not the end of the world...

[Timothy Sutter]

> right now, your "future" is a couple of years -ago-...

> so what? it's not the end of the world...

unless you want it to be

and then, go ahead and kill each other

but then you'd -really- be in the 'dark ages' again...

and charlie will ascend from the bottomless peat

and RILE THE WORLD... with his antics...

can't wait... ho hum...

[Timothy Sutter]

ain't that right, bug man?

[Timothy Sutter]

> > > right now, your "future" is a couple of years -ago-...

anyway, some of this is for my understanding...
here's what is my "papier mache" problem,
and, it at first, involves "real estate"

all the rest of your boogey men
get involved as time progresses...

ok, so, some kind folks want to move people
out of gubbment housing projects and into "homes"
of their own and this progresses all the way
to the "american dream of home ownership"

which had now become "federal policy" where
investment -banks- were genlty prodded to make
high risk loans to low income patrons in the hopes
that people would get the great goody feeling
of actually owning their own "home"

started as early as the late 70s through
to the clinton years and then teh bush years.

nothing terribly dangerous yet, an maybe even halfway 'noble'

ok, now enter the real estate "speculators"

and, lets just cut to the chase scene...

cuz that's where my "papier mache" phantom arises...


ok, so, the speculators "flip" proposed low income
housing and jack up the property 'values'
3 4 and 5 to 7 times actual property valuation.

for instance, a home may have actuallybeen -worth-
50 K when intended for a low income family and was
flip flopped by 'speculators' to valuations of 300 - 400 K.

and -then- some 'unscrupulous' characters
sought out the low income folks who were
-assured- of getting an easy loan

-because=- the gubbment was prodding the
banks to make such high risk loans.

see, where i'm heading so far?

see, the crux of the bad issue and "toxic assets" so-called
is in placing low income people in highly overvalued housing
and then running to -their- banks with an exhorbitant profit.

and then a domino effect tales place where
even low risk loans are being defaulted...

ok, so fine, they call these properties "underwater"

meaning that the property is now worth -less-
that the original high risk loan mortgage

and, the -bank- can't even get back their
monies by selling the housing off outright.

and people are stuck in homes that are worth
less than what they were encouraged to pay for
them, with the expectation that their loans
were easily secured.

ok, -now-

here's where my papier mache problem comes in...


the /perhaps/ 'unscrupulous' folks who sold
churned properties to low incomehigh risk patrons

walked away withlarge profist which
they deem to be =real= value

but, in the over all economics is a hollow
piece of paper which has no real substance


and so, somehwere, there is a greate deal of "phantom value"
where the -numbers- are high is someone's bank account,
but the substance from which this stack of =paper-
was founded, is -un-founded

and so, somewhere -in- the overall economy,
is a huge air bubble that needs deflating...right?

and all i'm suggesting is that the air bubble
is pervasive and has spread throughout the entire econmy

and many concerns, have extra air bubbles in their
valuation and the -numbers- say one thing, but the
actual -value- says another and the whole economy
is somehow sharing the burden of the -underwater- disposition...

and the -water- that the economy is -under- =is=
the air bubble of phantom papier mache value which
is a -number- too high for actual reality which
was funneled in to the economy having been
'laundered' as it were, ...

and that itis this air bubble in the papier mache
valuation that must be looked upon as if it
-never- existed because

in actual reality, the flipping of these houses
beyond any reasonable valuation, was phantom
valuation from the moment it went in to the
"real" banking system through the
"american dream of home ownership"

=federal policy- of assured "sub-prime- loans.

not a particular president's fault, but,

a phantom air bubble of no real value just the same.

ok, -that's- what i'm harping about...


the air bubble isn't real value never was real value
but still sits on somebodies books somewhere as
if it represents real value

but, is, in colad hard reality, flipped low houses which
remain "underwater because they could -never- be worth
what the final "hot potato" loan was.

kay..

[Timothy Sutter]

> > > > right now, your "future" is a couple of years -ago-...

> anyway, some of this is for my understanding...
> here's what is my "papier mache" problem,
> and, it at first, involves "real estate"

i did mention this in 2008, not cuz it was 'new' then,
but that 'spekatators' like to churn up property values
and some people like that when they think their home
is worth more and not less, which is why i said;

//perhaps// 'unscrupulous'

cuz they may just have been dumb and caught up in what they
suspected was a neverending upward spiral , which, of
course is wrong...

but chances are, they kept some of the riskier aspects of the "deal"
hidden from patrons buying already overvalued properties that were
almost certain to fall in value... etc.

well, not 'almost' but rather certain to fall in value.

the one area where i fault the banks themselves is in that they
knew beforehand that the loans were high risk, and yet, treated
them as if they were normal loans and foreclosed prematurely,
and ate the time bomb... which is why in one place i suggested
that al qeada was behind some of these risky deals, but, probably not.

==============
http://tinyurl.com/3tqsmgf
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 18:38:59 -0500
Local: Sat, Apr 5 2008 7:38 pm
Subject: Re: i eat well enough


> > meanwhile those houses are sittin there
> > empty and one party had betted that these loans
> > would be paid and another bett'd that they wouldn't
> > or couldn't be paid.
> you mean spekalators drivin' up property values
> and all you seem to get left with is higher property
> taxes and a regular olde middle class house that
> cost you $4000,000 so now, the so-called 'middle class'
> includes people who make as much as $250,000 per annum
> because they still live in middle class houses
> that just happen to cost more.


but one small thing,

those so-called 'empty' houses
in many cases never did have an
occupant and were bought as
an 'investment'


and that's what the spekalators do


they by and sell and sell and buy and
buy and sell driving the price -up- and -up-
with each sale of the same property and
play musical chairs with the property until
the music stops and somebody gets stuck with
the property like a hot potato that they can't
dump off on anyone else and -then- they default.


it's sort of a real estate pyramid scheme,


so, for these people, sympathy may be, somewhat, misplaced
and it's not like they intended to live in the house anyway
and are not out on the street because they defaulted.


you almost think that there is no good reason
to bail out the bank that was backing this game,


because if and when it -is- real people
who are trying to live in such a home,


they have no sympathy at all.


==


> those so-called 'empty' houses
> in many cases never did have an
> occupant and were bought as
> an 'investment'
> and that's what the spekalators do
> it's sort of a real estate pyramid scheme,


they're real estate 'speculators'

they roll in and start buying properties


which they don't live in, and try to make
an immediate turnover profit with very
little work done on the property.


it's a pyramid type scheme.


and they buy on 'margin,' which
is also known as 'credit'


and it does start to resemble the Hunt Brothers


-when- the bottom falls out and the prices drop.


in 1929


this immediate drop was devestating all around


bt now, such drops just cause ripples.


but people still get paranoid.


but boo hoo-ing may not be


the appropriate response.


something like this;

===
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/churning


Churning


1. An unethical practice employed by some brokers
to increase their commissions by excessively trading
in a client's account. This practice violates the
NASD Fair Practice Rules. It is also referred to
as "churn and burn", "twisting" and "overtrading".


2. A period of heavy trading with few sustained
price trends and little movement in
stock market indexes.


3. To buy and sell (a client's securities)
frequently, especially in order
to generate commissions.
===


and the very worst case 'scenario' is that
some of this is spekalators churning paper
housing futures that have no brick and
mortar involvement at all

so that's why a large financial institution 'tanks


because they outlay large sums and when they
go looking for some value return there's nothing
there but paper and no property to even forclose
on and they got egg on their face instead.


and it's not just happy harry homeowner getting
wiped out looking for the american dream of home ownership
but hyperextended trading on very low interest paper.


but, if happay harry did get caught up in it,
it's a terrible drag cuz he may not be to blame,
all the way, but he may get the blame and find
it more difficult to get real housing loans.


but that's a 'worst case' 'scenario'

===
Newsgroups: alt.timothy.sutter, alt.discordia
From: Timothy Sutter
Date: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 23:05:52 -0500
Local: Sun, Apr 6 2008 12:05 am
Subject: Re: i eat well enough

this was for anyone who had just happened
to have ran up big debt service in
atlantic city several years back...

http://tinyurl.com/5kupgx


so, here's your 'deal'


convince the Chinese that Atlantic City
wold make a suitable location for the
erection of "Hong Kong East"


or "Hong Kong West" whichever
direction you come by.


clear up all the debt service, and


the Chinese get a city near
New York but -not- New York


which can become the "Jewel of the Occident"


cuz right now it's just a faded memory
of conventioneers and furriers strolling
the steel pier.


"the home of the Miss America pageant"


who wants to be a sock puppet
to debt service, subserviant to
the 'community chest' but not
a controlling member of same?


nobody, really.


so, i give you;


the Chinese and "Hong Kong West"


break out the silver tongue and get onnit


albeit, they speak chinese, not english,


but, a deal is a deal...


it makes itself,


the Chinese have circa 300 billion$ in T-notes
which they are looking to 'diversify'


all they have to do is 'move in'


and its location clinches it.



> the Chinese and "Hong Kong West"

====================



et c etc etc...

[Timothy Sutter]

> > > > > right now, your "future" is a couple of years -ago-...

and now we're back to this. ^^^


-----right now, your "future" is a couple of years -ago-...-----

i.e. ...

[Timothy Sutter]

> > > > > > right now, your "future" is a couple of years -ago-...

olde background...


===
http://tinyurl.com/6dcccq

September 30, 1999
Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending
By STEVEN A. HOLMES

In a move that could help increase home ownership rates
among minorities and low-income consumers, the Fannie Mae
Corporation is easing the credit requirements on loans
that it will purchase from banks and other lenders.
===

and then it seems to find it's way into Bush policy in 2002;

===
http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/infocus/homeownership/homeownership-policy-book-ch2.html

A Home of Your Own
EXPANDING OPPORTUNITIES FOR ALL AMERICANS
PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH JUNE 2002

<...> [end of page 10 beginning of page 11]

To that end, the Administration has issued
America’s Homeownership Challenge” to homebuilders,
realtors, nonprofits, and government-sponsored enterprises
that purchase the mortgages made by lenders, to unite
in a concerted, multifaceted and collaborative effort
to dismantle barriers to homeownership in each community
and increase the number of minority homeowners by at
least 5.5 million families by the end of this decade.
This broad-based effort will (1) harness the capital and expertise
of major private sector financial institutions, (2) involve minority
advocacy groups in key roles to guide industry efforts, and (3)
complement the legislative and regulatory initiatives put forth
by the Administration to achieve this goal.
===


the gubbment was enouraging the high risk loans
to put low income people in homes...

that isn't an 'evil' practice...

[Timothy Sutter]

> > > > > > > right now, your "future" is a couple of years -ago-...

> olde background...

anyway, that's all down the toobs now.

but it wasn't just 'tim's fantasy world'

[Timothy Sutter]

> but it wasn't just 'tim's fantasy world'

cut away to something else for a sec...

[fixed width text]

_______
[| |]
[| |]
[| SSI |] <--- SSI beneficiaries
[| |]
[|_______|]
[| |]
[| |]
[| |] <--- SSI payees
[|_|]




this is teh problem with
social security that "everyone knows"

and that is, it's "top heavy"

for some strange reason the gubbment spent
all the monies collected -from- present day
ssi beneficiaries and so, they are now being
paid with monies from present day ssi payees

and, it's a "top heavy" situation.

take a big can of beans, and set it
on top of a little can of tomato paste

and then, kick the table ever so slightly
and watch the can of beans fall off the
can of tomato paste.

why? cuz it's top heavy...

that's the problem with ssi, it's top heavy

having m ore new beneficiaries than new payees
and that's why some people say it looks as if
it has turned into a "pyramid scheme"

not that it was originally envisioned as a crooked scheme...

but that, it has become ...TOP HEAVY


and so, to new -payees- it looks bleak that
they'll ever see a return on their tax dollar.


why the gubbment essentially -looted- the so-called
SSI 'trust fund' as opposed to makintg that money
grow in some sort of real investment plan is anyone's guess...

maybe cuz teh gubbment knows better how
to spend monies than it does anything else...


SSI is still TOP HEAVY

and TOP HEAVY is still

a physically precarious situation...

IOU doodly squat, is what's written ion some
of the pieces of paper in the till....


what a drag...

[Timothy Sutter]

> IOU doodly squat, is what's written ion some
> of the pieces of paper in the till....

unca sam is such a kidder...

te he he, ha ha ha...


but, the stars in the sky sometimes don't look 'random'

and in some strange language, the shapes of some of

the constellations are a messsage that says;


"i did it all for you"


you just have to know how to read it...


now -that's- "cryptography"...

[Timothy Sutter]

> > IOU doodly squat, is what's written ion some
> > of the pieces of paper in the till....

isn't this why they say ;

"the best laid plans of mice and men sometimes go all goofy"

cuz you think you're setting out to do some 'good' with
ssi and the american dream of home ownership, and somehow,
the mice get clever and eat the gubbment cheese cuz they just
don't know what else to do with it...

it's probably a shame how we tend to toss out babies

and drink dirty bath water...

[Timothy Sutter]

===
http://tinyurl.com/3f8da73
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 20:01:05 -0500

but, on a different note,
there's a strange comparison,

and that is, a comparison between


the 'american dream of home ownership'


and this 'new' american dream of


universal health insurance.


the home ownership bit was =Federal= policy


and federal policy was to, somewhat forcefully,
encourage private lenders to extend loans
to so-called 'high risk' individuals


and the subsequent disconnect between
the federal policy and the private lenders


which resulted in premature foreclosures
and the developement of the so-called
"toxic assets"


now, without a doubt, the home ownership bit was
encouraged by a 'democratic' leadership and then,
enforced by a republican administration, and so,


one cannot pin the =Policy= on just any admnistration
that happened to be 'in charge of' enforcing, or
meting out, the, now, =Federal= policy.


and, somewhere down the line, this new policy
is going to be Federal Policy which must be meted


out by whichever 'party' happens to be
administering things, which may be
of little consequence


in as much as ths =policy= may be left in
the hands of 'private' industry with


the 'forceful' encouragement of Federal policy management,
and so, the same sort of dynamic comes in to play,


where, Federal policy, essentially -forces-
private insurers, to dole out insurance policies


to so-called "high risk" individuals
and the grand likelihood that a large number of


"high risk" individuals =must= be given
highly expensive treatments and be virtually
unable to provide any payments of their own,


and some strange sort of policy developes


which -must- render such "high risk potential" patients


=as=


=Uninsurable=


"toxic health care"


very much like the "toxic assets"


which are still jamming up


the private lender's "balance sheets"


partly because they were treating "high risk" loans


which were federally mandated as if they were


regular everyday run-o-the mill loans


and foreclosed prematurely and got a toxic loss


for their troubles which the federal


governnment mandated that they engage in.


so, be careful how these 'mandates'


end up tieing people's hands in knots.


it was a great big deal for low


income home ownership too


and people 'got what they wanted'


and then, something strange happened...


but finger pointing doesn't really help


nor is it necessarily 'valid'


etc.


etc.


etc.


the policy of federal encouragement


of high risk loans was become =federal policy=


and not 'democrat policy' nor 'republican policy'


lots of people may want a free trip to the mayo clinic


so, it's still,


yeah right, you're gunna force high end earners in to d.c. general...


that'll happen...


or else it's one of these "separate but unequal' bits...



the point of all that was, that,

apparently, the home ownership mandate 'flopped'


for whatever reason


it was sort of "universal home ownership"


and now it's "universal health insurance"


or "universal health care"


and somehow, somewhere along the line,


a big unpaid bill stares you in the face


and they sue you-know-who...


yeah right, they sue everybody


etc.




> yeah right, they sue everybody


i'm getting with the program

evidently, i have no choice...




but, the 'goal' whether immediate or long term

is still, 'universal coverage' and this is taken


to mean that somehow or another, people who cannot


purchase insurance policies for themselves,


have someone else purchase it for them.


that's still the 'goal'


so, somewhere in all this 20 tons of paper is just that,

the expressed 'goal' of universal coverage.

=====

[Timothy Sutter]

> > > > IOU doodly squat, is what's written ion some
> > > > of the pieces of paper in the till....

strictly for amusement...

[Timothy Sutter]

> strictly for amusement...

but, .. this is looking more like reality...

======
http://tinyurl.com/b8427o
May 14 2005, 4:49 pm

HEADLINE: RUSSIAN TOURISTS MAKE RESERVATIONS AT TRIPOLI HILTON


it's not so funny as you may think,


better get your reservations now
before they're all booked up.


i hear Tripoli will be quite
the hot spot in about 20 years.


nice mediterranean beaches, date palms, terns nests...


you mean you haven't got on it yet?


i'm surprised you don't have
an umbrella in the ground already.


oh well, maybe Howard Johnson's will build first.


and Russian tourists will get there before you do.


while y'all argue over politics.

=====

[Timothy Sutter]

> > strictly for amusement...

> but, .. this is looking more like reality...

> ======
> http://tinyurl.com/b8427o
> May 14 2005, 4:49 pm

> HEADLINE: RUSSIAN TOURISTS MAKE RESERVATIONS AT TRIPOLI HILTON

i tell you one thing, just like "the birdman of alcatraz" told me;

the only people that are 100% =certain= about
what the days to come hold in store for them

are death row imates and other assorted prisoners.

it's not such a bad thing to be 'uncertain' about

certain aspects of the days to come.

that's like, akin to 'freedom'

don't go totally the way of ancient Egypt

they practically -worshipped- the "existing conditions"

it's a mental slavery...

and a perfect little prison...

beware the dictates of "Cynical Pragmatism"

embrace 'freedom' and with it,

a certain degree of "uncertainty"

believe it or not. mr. ripley...

"uncertainty" -can- be a "good thing"

not even GOD Almighty has saddled GOD Almighty

with "exhaustive omniscience"...

don't fall in to that =TRAP=

you can't glue down everything...

unclench... just a tad...

for you own good...

[Timothy Sutter]

> you can't glue down everything...

> unclench... just a tad...

> for you own good...

you can't be -so- afraid of coming up short sometimes

that you glue your feet to the floor.

cuz then there is a total certainty

that you -will- come up short...

[Timothy Sutter]

-be-cuz...with your feet glued to the floor,

=now= you -have to- face the cold hard reality of;

"you can't win, you can't break even,
and you can't leave the game"


without any of the remediating effects

of stepping out into the unknown with

the eyes of FAITH


which is, itself, a substantial reality which

decalres things which be -not- as if they BE

and they Become...


the only real hedge against;

"dissipative heat loss" and "entropy"


-not- a "vain pipedream"


but the POWER by which all things that be seen

arose from that which we cannot comprehend...


the "wild card" in the deck....

[Timothy Sutter]

anyway, the "idea" was -not- to put people
in housing that they -couldn't- afford.

-no-

the "idea" was to put people in housing
that they -could- afford, and housing that was -not-
"public housing" which, in some respects was little more
than a concentration camp and a mini prison
or a step ladder -to- prison.

and speaking of prison, isn't that
the perfect public housing project?

sure, fine, works great, and there's even some -incentive-
to round up people to put -in- to prison because the gubbment
will pay 50 grand a head per year for food and board that costs
maybe 5 grand per head at a clear -profit- expecially when
you can round up lots of people on =MARYJUANER= CHARGES AND
GET THEM IN "PUBLIC' HOUSING FOR LIFE CUZ AFTER ALL,
THOSE PEOPLE WERE -BORN- TO LIVE IN JAIL, THEY -LIKE- IT.

yeah yeah yeah, it's just another 'angle' to be viewed from...

after all, those people really -are- criminals from birth
and should aspire to no greater love than to sew buttons
on high fashion for 50 cent a day which is not -really
prison wages, but a JOB they should be -thankful- for ...

"tim, tim, wassa matta? have you gone mad?"

no, not really...

but even -i- can see the disconnect between what was
"intended" and what actually begins to take shape...

which lends -crfedence- to some people's complaints

that some other people really -do- see a -reason-
to fill prisons with petty offense cases
cuz it makes -money-

and once you're in the public facillities,

it's difficult to ever get out...

but, the public facilities are still

a burden and a drain on life...

you could build a split level barn for 20 grand

and put in plumbing and electricity and make it livable
and worthy of being mortgaged and give someone extensive
time to pay it off themselves

but, then, to flip-flop -that- house and make it way
too expensive and destined to drop in value -after-
the people move in, is practically criminal itself...

and i -don't- think that -that- is what
those people had in mind from jump.

-not- "let's put people in houses that they can't afford"

no, "let's put people in houses they -can- afford"

that are -not- public facillities on a stepping stone

to THE public facillity which is prison...

etc. etc.

no, i'm not a commie...

[Timothy Sutter]

> anyway, the "idea" was -not- to put people
> in housing that they -couldn't- afford.

give some people some credit for, at -least-, having half a brain
and if the -intention- was to place people in housing that they
could not ever -begin- to afford, then thay would have been
ultra stOOOOpid and you'd have never been able to begin
to convince a real bank to mortgage such an endeavor
even -with- fannie mae standing in the wings.


no, the -crooked- _scheme_ that took shape, evidently,
was to place people in housing that they could -not-
ever ever even """dream""" of affording given
three lifetimes to pay.


and -accusing- the -intention- of =being=

"to put people in housing that they could never afford"

lends credence to -this- accusation;

that being that it -was- a crooked scheme
and not just the irrational exhuberance
of the real estate investment brokerages.


so, where is that fine line?


between "good intentions" and "the road to hell" ?



i'll keep looking/

[Timothy Sutter]

> so, where is that fine line?

> between "good intentions" and "the road to hell" ?

because, they -don't- say;

"good intentions send you to hell"

they say;

"the road to hell is paved with good intentions"


not to be confused that;

"good intentions" -are- "bad intentions"

=now= you can scramble your brains over

what constitutes "good" and what constitutes "bad"


cuz, it really -isn't- all that =clear=

just which is witch...

[Timothy Sutter]

cuz, it's to the point that -failure- to sort this out

-is- the road which leads to PRISON

even if that PRISON CELL is

guilded with fine things...

[Timothy Sutter]

> > just which is witch...

> cuz, it's to the point that -failure- to sort this out

> -is- the road which leads to PRISON

> even if that PRISON CELL is

> guilded with fine things...

look for; "my good is your bad"

look for; "my good is me getting what i want,
and my bad is me not getting what i want"

look for; the same -action- being -both-
"good" and "bad" depending on who
gets what they want and who doesn't
get what they want.

and then you can look for indicting yourself
as a criminal for -doing- a thing which you
would consider a -crime- if it was -done- _to_ -you-

and now, you're in a self imposed prison cell
even if you have maids and servants
bringing you cake for breakfast

"how can it be a prison if i live like a Lord?"

and then here comes our olde friend "paranoia"

to seal it with a kiss...

enjoy your cake...

[Timothy Sutter]

and that's teh beginning of teh punch line


"good evil" leads to a "paralysis zone"

and -this- is precisely what we see

almost as if your feet of clay are glued to the floor


Vive Le Ligne Maginot

[Timothy Sutter]

"the futility index is -way- in to the red on that one

i'm not even -thinking- about pursuing it"

[Timothy Sutter]

what if i said the great wall of China was originally

to keep people -in- and not to keep people out?

[Timothy Sutter]

> what if i said the great wall of China was originally

> to keep people -in- and not to keep people out?

and Marco Polo be up there sayin';

"isn't China a great place,
they don't even have any prisons?"

yeah, dum dum, the whole place was =efficiently= run as a prison...

[Timothy Sutter]

you -could- say that the Chinese were very -practical- people

but, "grid for grid" this mentallity -would have been-

incongruous with "American Idealism"

[Timothy Sutter]

but not any more, right...?

it looks more and more as if America is headed back to prison...

a very efficiently run place...sure

but, there may be -some- "truth" to the notion that

Imposition of Order leads to an elevation in the levels of "chaos"

albeit, i wouldn't be the one to disrespect"chaos" in such a manner,

because -i- know, that "chaos" does -not- mean "disorder"

but, that's another subject...

[Timothy Sutter]

> > > > what if i said the great wall of China was originally
> > > > to keep people -in- and not to keep people out?

> > > and Marco Polo be up there sayin';

> > > "isn't China a great place,
> > > they don't even have any prisons?"

> > > yeah, dum dum, the whole place was =efficiently= run as a prison...

> > you -could- say that the Chinese were very -practical- people
> > but, "grid for grid" this mentallity -would have been-
> > incongruous with "American Idealism"

> but not any more, right...?

> it looks more and more as if America is headed back to prison...

> a very efficiently run place...sure

> but, there may be -some- "truth" to the notion that

> Imposition of Order leads to an elevation in the levels of "chaos"

i mean, you know that prisons are filled with
some of the worse mental disorders?

-that- kind of "chaos"


"careful dood, somebody may jam a knife in your back

just cuz they woke up on the wrong side of the bed"


"no tim, we've taken away all knives

and you are now perfectly "safe""


"-NO- we've given -everybody- a knife
and told them exactly how to use it"


wow, it just gets more and more complex...


COMPLEX, YES, LETS BUILD ANOTHER PRISON COMPLEX


not necessary, -nobody- is going -anywhere- SIR


KOOOOOL

"will you stop with the bleak picture already?"


oh nooo, it isn't 'bleak' at all, it's perfect =freedom=

just dissappear willingly into the efficiency of it all...


dinner is at 6 sharp...

[Timothy Sutter]

> dinner is at 6 sharp...

"fitty cent for the head of Joe Vallaci"

oh, along with noodles they remembered how -fun- it was back in the
day...

Vive Il Duce...

[Timothy Sutter]

then you're supposed to say;

"oh..., fitty cent..., so -that's- all i'm woyth"

[Timothy Sutter]

thought i'd be -insulted- at such a price on -my- head...

well, i'm -not- _insulted_ at all... I'M HAPPY

most people won't even stoop down to pick up
fitty cent off the sidewalk...


now i can breeze through town like a ghost...



oh, excuse me, that wasn't part of the pitcher...


i was flashin' back to ancient Rome again...

[Timothy Sutter]

> now i can breeze through town like a ghost...

i've already visited the land of wind and ghosts...

[Timothy Sutter]

> > now i can breeze through town like a ghost...

> i've already visited the land of wind and ghosts...

not to worry...

everything's just peachy

no, not for -you- , -you- still gotta date with the hang man...

you think i'm kiddin'...


there is a 'wisdom' from below

an earthly, sensual, demonic wisdom


and it ends up sayin'

"harmony is war"

alls i gots to say is that,


The Supreme Personality of Godhead


is =NOT= the 'author' of such a confused state...


The Supreme Personality of Godhead


is =not= at war with itself...


someday, you'll get that 'clear'


and then, it'll never cross your mind to jab that shiv up your own gut


even when you're standing beside yourself



"huh?"



The Supreme Personality of Godhead is different...


don't even imagine that it's "just like you"

[Timothy Sutter]

> The Supreme Personality of Godhead is different...

> don't even imagine that it's "just like you"

just don't you worry,

i -didn't- say that -I- _am_

The Supreme Personality of Godhead

nope, never even -implied- such a thing...

[Timothy Sutter]

i would like to see the captives set free...


maybe they will be, even if you do see fit

to enclose yourselves in steel bars


cuz it =seems= a "wise" thing to do,

only to turn 'round and say you wuz "beguiled" by a stranger...

The Supreme Personality of Godhead

may just say;

"enough is enough already"

"these are -still- =MyOur= people"

and sprinkle the dust in your eyes

and let you actually SEE the firey chariots racing all about you


and -then- you'll be scared...


until you realize that they're there -for- you, and not agin yuh...


not that -any- of us are 'worth' it...

or -deserve- it...


but...

The Supreme Personality of Godhead

has a NAME


and that NAME will be upheld...


"wake up tim, wake up tim, wake up tim"


i'm up, i'm up, i'm up...


QUIT BUGGIN' ME

[Timothy Sutter]

happy now?

great, fine, i'm glad...

ta

[Timothy Sutter]

> happy now?

> great, fine, i'm glad...

now you can go back to lookin' for a more efficient way

to barbycue chicken, and take your sweet a$$ time eatin' it too...

[Timothy Sutter]

just remember;

what if i said the great wall of China was originally

to keep people -in- and not to keep people out?

think about it...

[Timothy Sutter]

maybe i'll catch up....someday

[Timothy Sutter]

> maybe i'll catch up....someday

i got this book about the 20s

i'm actually tryin' to read it...

[Timothy Sutter]

> > maybe i'll catch up....someday

> i got this book about the 20s

> i'm actually tryin' to read it...

i've been in recovery all my life,

i don't care

i don't feel bad about it...

-that- doesn't mean that God

doesn't really exist.

[Timothy Sutter]

well, i guess i was ready to tell my self

that i was fully recovered

and that's when i went back in to recovery...

sort of like Paul...


"hubris" and all that...


-but- i never have ever said that i didn't need my Savior...


no... you won't see me sayin' that...

won't be able to show me sayin' that somewhere

cuz that wouldn't be true...

and i haven't all of a sudden become a liar

[Timothy Sutter]

> and i haven't all of a sudden become a liar

didn't you know, i -was- a tragedian

and won the greek tragedy award 6 years running,

but that was a -loooooong- time ago...

[Timothy Sutter]

back then, it was just some guy, all alone

with no sets and no special FX,

just the need for "catharsis"

and that's what we all got, "catharsis"

that's when "drama" was a religious exercize

don't know why i'm mentioning that, just thought i would...

no, "drama" didn't mean "fake"

[Timothy Sutter]

they burnt my stuff

[Timothy Sutter]

> they burnt my stuff

a startling reproduction

[Timothy Sutter]

> > they burnt my stuff

> a startling reproduction

it doesn't matter, the world goes on

there's nothing to fear...

broken bones heal

flesh comes back to life again

[Timothy Sutter]

> flesh comes back to life again

or is it, life comes back to flesh again?

[Timothy Sutter]

> > flesh comes back to life again

> or is it, life comes back to flesh again?

i actually wrote this for someone,
and now, i'm thinking, they actually heard me

strange...

===
http://tinyurl.com/3o4pnsg
From: Timothy Sutter
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 2002 13:28:01 -0400
Subject: catharsis

a dramatic episode is working
towards some emotional release.
a catharsis or purging of emotional
tensions which can be considered
a religious experience.

that's not the main idea here,
but just a preface to enter into
this bit about caricatures.

when i mention drama and the like,
i am not speaking of the most
entertaining way to sell popcorn.

i'm not suggesting that dramatics is
taking on some false persona behind
which to deceive a perceived audiance.

no, i'm considering it as some sort of religious
experience by which conflict may be considered
and understood and maybe even properly dealt with.

so, everyone has this repertoire
of character traits that they carry
around in a little cart or "caricatura".

the overemphais and overworking of
particular traits from your little
cart is what one will consider
a "caricature".

that's you, always grabbing for the
joy buzzer cuz you can get your
laugh and exit stage right.

but now you've hung around a while.

and moving ahead, you find that your
little cart is a vetriloquist's marionette
and you would like to guard against your
dummy doing the thinking and not
only the speaking for you.

and in the dead of night, you fear
that you are trapped in your caricature
and no longer have a personality of your own.

are you tickling your own ears
cuz you want to face away
from the conflict?

playing to an audiance in which you are
included and forsaking your full repertoire
for an overindulgence in sight gags.

in essence, you began as a round figure
and etched out this perplexingly blanded
stick figure in order to ignore that
conflict which escapes your remediation.

even if that stick figure sparks with
the emotional outbursts one comes
to expect in catharsis.

and the emotional outbursts
are themselves your caricature.

but no real conflict is resolved.

and people toss the raw meat
in your face to watch the
dummy scream his head off.

and you're personality has been
dictated by the surroundings.

and you want it back.

but the dummy tells you to dance in a circle.

and you don't even recognize the
dummy as having fallen from
your caricatura.

but then you say;

"that was my intention all along"

"watch me as i smash my character
to bits and recreate it, stronger
and more noble than ever,
right before your eyes."

after having taken the step back,
and realizing that you were in
your own audiance and the conflict
was out of your control, and the
dummy never moved his lips.

and then you find God.

in the midst of the debris

pristine incorruptible

you played your part in your own reclamation.

i wonder if there'll be a sequel.
===

[Timothy Sutter]

the negro is part of america

[Timothy Sutter]

> the negro is part of america

i just don't wanna see total "distortion"

[Timothy Sutter]

> > the negro is part of america

> i just don't wanna see total "distortion"

not that i =have to= say shit for anybody...ever

cuz i most certainly do not

do not kid yourself

the negro -want's- whitey's "approval"

...[...]

[Timothy Sutter]

nobody's ever asked me what i wanted

they've always just told me what they wanted

[Timothy Sutter]

> nobody's ever asked me what i wanted

> they've always just told me what they wanted

so i may be an expert on what 'they' -want-

but you don't know shit about me.

just in general...generally speaking


riiiight, general...particular,,,, tim is particular

and 'they' are general...

and, in general, people have told me what they want...

but, in particular, nobody has ever asked me what i want...

just in case, it's not so simple as most of what i say...

[Timothy Sutter]

i didn't ask you for shit, remember that.

[Topsy Turvy]

On Sep 18, 8:59 am, Timothy Sutter <a202...@lycos.com> wrote:
> The Supreme Personality of Godhead is different...
>
> don't even imagine that it's "just like you"

Good Gawd, I should hope not...

[Timothy Sutter]

Topsy Turvy wrote:

> Timothy Sutter wrote:

> > The Supreme Personality of Godhead is different...

> > don't even imagine that it's "just like you"

> Good Gawd, I should hope not...

hammer, meet nail

nail, meet hammer

[Adam Christ drinking a cup of jack]

nail, meet board

hammer, meet thumb

[Timothy Sutter]

Adam Christ drinking a cup of jack wrote:

> Timothy Sutter wrote:

> > Topsy Turvy wrote:

> > > Timothy Sutter wrote:

> > > > The Supreme Personality of Godhead is different...
> > > > don't even imagine that it's "just like you"

> > > Good Gawd, I should hope not...

> > hammer, meet nail

> > nail, meet hammer

> nail, meet board

> hammer, meet thumb

i'll get over it

[Adam Christ drinking a cup of jack]

hobo with a shotgun

[Timothy Sutter]

Adam Christ drinking a cup of jack wrote:

> Timothy Sutter wrote:

> > > > > > The Supreme Personality of Godhead is different...
> > > > > > don't even imagine that it's "just like you"

> > > > > Good Gawd, I should hope not...

> > > > hammer, meet nail
> > > > nail, meet hammer

> > > nail, meet board
> > > hammer, meet thumb

> > i'll get over it

> hobo with a shotgun

i missed my foot, and hit the pedestal

[Timothy Sutter]

i promise, no more 'race' jokes... [uncrosses fingers]

anyway, it seems very simple to me,
as do many things, sad to say, but

all this talk about lowering payroll taxes
and things the gubbment can do will go nowere fast.

1500 dollars a year in John Q.s pockets
is now going straight into the gas tank anyway,

-so- the -obvious- thing that gubbment can "do" right now
is sign a pledge that it will not confiscate "big money's" "wealth"
should "big money" decide to bring it out of hiding and
engage in a little bit of "venture capitalism"

=that= is the only thing that will produce "jobs"

cuz that's teh world we live in right now...

all the talk in the world about what gubbment
can do to make "jobs" happen is in the futility index...

you simply have to promise not to confiscate "big money's" "wealth"

should they bring it out of 'hiding'


it's that simple.


all this "fairness" talk is meaningless...



yeah yeah yeah, -i- know that even -if-

150 million people voted for me

that the "establishment" wouldn't

-allow- me to be presient


so, don't worry, i'm -not- suffering
from the number one instance of american 'monomania'
and tht is, the delusion that one -is- the President.

"tim's never run a lemon-ade stand,
he can't possibly be president and,
besides, in six months he'll be
dealin' maryjuana out the white house"



WRONG

[Adam Christ drinking a cup of jack]

On Sep 19, 5:33 pm, Timothy Sutter <a202...@lycos.com> wrote:
> "tim's never run a lemon-ade stand,
> he can't possibly be president and,
> besides, in six months he'll be
> dealin' maryjuana out the white house"
>
> WRONG

yeah there's a lot more money in crack

BUT

them spooky boys already been doing the upper-handed or lower-handed
or even underwear-handed for nigh on 31 yaars

but from the blanca haus it might be novel

[Timothy Sutter]

Adam Christ drinking a cup of jack wrote:

> Timothy Sutter wrote:

> > "tim's never run a lemon-ade stand,
> > he can't possibly be president and,
> > besides, in six months he'll be
> > dealin' maryjuana out the white house"

> > WRONG

> yeah there's a lot more money in crack

> BUT

> them spooky boys already been doing the upper-handed or lower-handed
> or even underwear-handed for nigh on 31 yaars

> but from the blanca haus it might be novel

so the stablishment is behind the very lucrative drug trade, and
it's all laundered in minute contributions to political campaigns


got it...

[Adam Christ drinking a cup of jack]

especially the drugs they WANT you to taKe, but even babies no that

[Timothy Sutter]

Adam Christ drinking a cup of jack wrote:

> Timothy Sutter wrote:


> > so the stablishment is behind the very lucrative drug trade, and
> > it's all laundered in minute contributions to political campaigns

> > got it...

> exspecially the drugs they WANT you to taKe, but even babies no that

this one has puzzled me...

can -you- explain this?

=
http://tinyurl.com/3nw5zjn
Published: June 13, 2001 <<----
Taliban's Eradication of Poppies Is Convulsing Opium Market

=

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/10/07/news/kabul.php
Published: Sunday, October 7, 2007 <<---
U.S. presses again to eradicate Afghan opium poppies
=


in June of 2001, before "911" affghany opium poppies
are being eradicated by the Taliban

and, 6 years later, -after- the U.S. military
is in afffghanystan, after "911"

opium is at bumper crop levels and U.S.
is "pressing" to eradicate opium...

[Adam Christ drinking a cup of jack]

On Sep 20, 2:59 pm, Timothy Sutter <a202...@lycos.com> wrote:
> Adam Christ drinking a cup of jack wrote:
>
> > Timothy Sutter wrote:
> > > so the stablishment is behind the very lucrative drug trade, and
> > > it's all laundered in minute contributions to political campaigns
> > > got it...
> > exspecially the drugs they WANT you to taKe, but even babies no that
>
> this one has puzzled me...
>
> can -you- explain this?
>

> =http://tinyurl.com/3nw5zjn

> Published: June 13, 2001       <<----
> Taliban's Eradication of Poppies Is Convulsing Opium Market
>
> =
>
> http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/10/07/news/kabul.php
> Published: Sunday, October 7, 2007  <<---
> U.S. presses again to eradicate Afghan opium poppies
> =
>
> in June of 2001, before "911" affghany opium poppies
> are being eradicated by the Taliban
>
> and, 6 years later, -after- the U.S. military
> is in afffghanystan, after "911"
>
> opium is at bumper crop levels and U.S.
> is "pressing" to eradicate opium...

news is "fake" and "true" at the same time???

honest to god reporters report the truth, as the other hand slides the
needle into america's vein....

WAAAAAAAY tao much moolah being made off the drug trade especially
heroin to be controlled...

think of all the Iranian junkies whydoncha?!?!


butt the big thing is that if they make too much opium prices will
plummet so they eradicate some crops to keep the flow at a certain
stabilized level, keeping the market flooded, just not biblically,
with that sweet ambrosia of the chthonic gawds...

[Timothy Sutter]

maybe you didn't read the articles.

the Taliban, had wiped out nearly
3/4 of the world's opium harvest

and this was convulsing the market.


and -then- the u.s. and british military
find a reason to insert itself in to affgannystan.

and -then- opium and heroin production out of
affghannystan skyrockets to new highs


and -then- u.s. military people start talking
about -how- to eradicate teh opium poppy,

because teh =Taliban= is said to be growing
it and selling it to fund their actions.

the same people who were eradicating it, successfully,

and now said to be -producing- it successfully.

but, the Taliban, had some sort of 'religious'
rationale for -eradicating- opium.

what puzzles me is, that if the u.s. actually
wanted to eradicate opium and the taliban had
already done a fine job of it with crude farming implements,
how is it, that, the presence of the military,
results in a =boom= in production?

the one answer is that the u.s. and britain didn't want
to eradicate anything but, practically, inserted themselves
in to affghannystan for the express purpose of
-saving=- the poppy.

it's confusing...

and some very highly placed folks, even on WALL street

have turned to these very powerful narcotics...


and some of these people have 'your' future in their hands...


luckily, HAL is running the show for the most part...

> honest to god reporters report the truth, as the other hand slides the
> needle into america's vein....

do you realize that OXYcontin was first developed
for =terminal= cancer patients and -not- for
back backaches and lumbago?

albeit, some of these things are synthetic...

but, never intended for backaches...

> WAAAAAAAY tao much moolah being made off the drug trade especially
> heroin to be controlled...

it's more a matter of control than moolah...

of course, maybe these 'free' people just like

doin' hard narcotics cuz they don't have anything better to do.

> think of all the Iranian junkies whydoncha?!?!

not -nearly- as many as american and british junkies.

> butt the big thing is that if they make too much opium prices will
> plummet so they eradicate some crops to keep the flow at a certain
> stabilized level, keeping the market flooded, just not biblically,
> with that sweet ambrosia of the chthonic gawds...

they have synthetics that they are practically giving away

and nice middle class high school students are turning up blue on the
floor.

everyone is 'free' to do themself damage...

[Adam Christ drinking a cup of jack]

On Sep 20, 5:19 pm, Timothy Sutter <a202...@lycos.com> wrote:
> everyone is 'free' to do themself damage...

AND doubly on that i was discussing this converstation to a friend on
AIM and he sent me a link

http://www.drugs-forum.com/chemistry

make more than just heroin, and lots of money too

[Adam Christ drinking a cup of jack]

Wooooowooooowoooowooo
Wooooowooooowoooowooo
All this frustration
I can't meet all my desires
Strange conversation
Self copntrol has just expired
All an illusion
Only in my head you don't exist
Who re you foolin'
Don't need a shrink but an exorcist
Lalalala
Lalalala
Lalalala
La
Wooooowooooowoooowooo
Show me the movie of who you are and where you're from
Born of frustration
Caught upon the webs you spun
Where's ther confusion
A vision of what life is like
Show the movie that doens't deal in black and white
Talk talk talkin 'bout who's to blame
But all that counts in how to change
Stop stop talkin 'bout who's to blame
When all that counts in how to change
Lalalala
Lalalala
Lalalala
La
All this frustration
All this frustration
Who put round eyes on a butterfly's wings
All this frustration
All this frustration
Who gave the leopard spots and taught the birds to sing
Born of frustration
Born of frustration
Wooooowooooowoooowooo
Wooooowooooowoooowooo
I'm living in the weeds where nothing is the way it seems
Where no one is who they need to be
Where nothing seems that real to me
'Bout time we filled our lives
Upon the walls of gold no solid ground
The world is spinnin' endlessly
We're clinging to our own beliefs
Born of frustration
Born of frustration

Wooooowooooowoooowooo
Wooooowooooowoooowooo

[Adam Christ drinking a cup of jack]

On Sep 20, 5:19 pm, Timothy Sutter <a202...@lycos.com> wrote:
> everyone is 'free' to do themself damage...

i'm on dial-up loading pages takes like way too long sometimes

i'm on pre-flood technologies

sheeeet, if you know what your doing drugs can be a hell of a pastime

but if you don't and most kids and many adults don't

they can kill you

the rolling stones said it best: live and let die

[Timothy Sutter]

Adam Christ drinking a cup of jack wrote:

> live and let die

comical

james bond is working to see that certain little brits

get just enough to keep them coming to the chemist every day

and punching their time card every night

with only mild complaining

marketing through haiti laundering and possessing

boston travels to florida

the ZOMBIES return

sweet dreams little ones...

as you like it

wings

crash landing

i don't even know what it means

to live and let live

Solitaire

[Timothy Sutter]

From - Fri Jul 25 11:34:21 2003
Message-ID: <3F214D...@lycos.com>
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 2003 11:34:21 -0400
From: Timothy Sutter <a20...@lycos.com>
Organization: Timothy Sutter
X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03 (Win95; I)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Newsgroups: alt.timothy.sutter,alt.bible,alt.religion.christianity
Subject: eat your fill
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mozilla-Status: 0001
Content-Length: 1862



God isn't trying to spoil your fun

God doesn't like misery


so, there is this person

who lives in misery

and dons a disguise

for adjulation and praise

for ten cents a dance

and if anyone should pull
the needle from her hand

she cries and screams,
"you're spoiling my fun"

it's plain to see,

no one 'neath the mask

is this person having fun?

or is she allowing herself
to be cruely exploited because
it hides her misery for five
minutes at a time?


and you exclaim;

"this isn't about me"

"i'm a superstar"

only, when you take off your mask

there isn't anyone looking
back at you in the mirror.

but the dime's on the table

you sold yourself cheap.

and the devil told me;

"you know, Timothy, we do actually
have our ethics, and we don't feel
the humans have the spiritual maturity
which would enable them to formulate
consent to sell their souls.

so -we- don't seek them out,

but they do a fair job of
selling them-selves- off cheap

all in a vain attempt
to imitate -my- failings"

"a void of God's Love and Presence

the very depths of misery,

so we seek praise among ourselves

like a good little dog"


the devil isn't stupid.

but when he sees the humans

donning the DIS-guise

so as to escape in-to-
-his- world of Disaster

he shakes his pointed little head

and wonders aloud;

"why on earth would anyone want to be like me?"

of course, our little friend, the devil,
could rewrite this in many odd ways
so as to appear advantageous or
even desirable, but he knows,
as well as you know, that deep inside,
there's something missing.

and it isn't a dime.

so, it doesn't mean anything,

and neither does your misery.

no precious commodity
who writes your songs,

just a self-ish hoax.

here comes the praise.

eat your fill.



> and the devil told me;

> "you know, Timothy, we do actually
> have our ethics, and we don't feel
> the humans have the spiritual maturity
> which would enable them to formulate
> consent to sell their souls.

and of course, some 'quick-witted'
person among us would like to suggest
that when the devil claimed he had ethics,
he was probably lieing. but Timothy is
willing to grant that, perhaps, the devil
would like to think that he had ethics,
of some sort, at any rate, and me being
willing to take people at their word,

and understanding that it is true that the
human beings don't possess the maturity to
sell their own souls, cuz like, what is it anyway?

but i have seen misery

and i do recognize its outlets,

and i'd never consider
it 'fun' to wallow in misery

get strung out on a billie holiday

with the devil waiting on your toilet seat.



> of course, our little friend, the devil,
> could rewrite this in many odd ways
> so as to appear advantageous or
> even desirable, but he knows,
> as well as you know, that deep inside,
> there's something missing.



> but i have seen misery
> and i do recognize its outlets,
> and i'd never consider
> it 'fun' to wallow in misery

> get strung out on a billie holiday

and your billie holiday comes
without special commemoration

no longer a special occasion
but an end in itself.

not -just- the extreme vacation

and i mean -vacation-

like you vacate the premises of your mind.

no one was ever at home anyway.

don't send -me- any postcards from hell.

i may send you back.

[Adam Christ drinking a cup of jack]

On Sep 21, 12:39 am, Timothy Sutter <a202...@lycos.com> wrote:
> no one was ever at home anyway.
>
> don't send -me- any postcards from hell.
>
> i may send you back.

One of the Chief Executive Devils not only loves the misery and misery
prevalent in the world, s/he/it also has the capacity to see it
happens...

[Timothy Sutter]

Adam Christ drinking a cup of jack wrote:

> Timothy Sutter wrote:

> > no one was ever at home anyway.
> > don't send -me- any postcards from hell.
> > i may send you back.

> One of the Chief Executive Devils not only loves the misery and misery
> prevalent in the world, s/he/it also has the capacity to see it
> happens...

i don't need a scapegoat

[Adam Christ drinking a cup of jack]

they're not asking you to be their scapegoat, sill billy goat, they do
what they do cause they want too... to you too, as it happens, in real
and imaginary time....

you talk about them all the time, using them as your talking points,
whether you feel any animosity towards your props is your own
problem...

Jesus certainly isn't stopping them from doing their business... They
probably believe they're following Jesus anyway!!!

[Timothy Sutter]

Adam Christ drinking a cup of jack wrote:

> Timothy Sutter wrote:

> > Adam Christ drinking a cup of jack wrote:

> > > Timothy Sutter wrote:

> > > > no one was ever at home anyway.
> > > > don't send -me- any postcards from hell.
> > > > i may send you back.

> > > One of the Chief Executive Devils not only loves the misery and misery
> > > prevalent in the world, s/he/it also has the capacity to see it
> > > happens...

> > i don't need a scapegoat


> they're not asking you to be their scapegoat,

no, you're asking me to scapegoat 'them'


i'm more than willing to eat my own personal foibles.


even the large part of human 'criminality' is born of
stoopidity and not some grand diabolic conspiracy,

much less a "Demonic God" who says "no" means "yes"
and slaps you silly for 'doing' what =IT= made you do.

even the Demonic Failure is more a glaring
personal stoopidity which overshadows God given brilliance
and not a device -of- personal brilliance.

so, you want me to look over there,
and say, "they caused my miseries"

and perhaps go on some sort of hunting expedition
to slit throats and relieve my miseries

when i know full well, that my hunting expedition
is to locate my own "evil heart" and cut it out
and lay it down by the side of the road.

where "evil" could be something as simple as
caring about my own secure future, when i
never asked to be born in the first place.

'they' are no better off than 'i'

'they' are in the same situation as 'i'

'covetousness' is personal Idolatry

i'm not going to worship gain,

-but- i certainly need 'help' from the only Personality

with the clarity of vision so as to topple the figmentary image of
Azazel,

which is born of my own desires for security, from =its= pedestal,

and...quicken and enliven that speck of the identity

which can operate in that True Autonomy which

stumbles not.

> sill billy goat, they do what they do cause they want too...
> to you too, as it happens, in real and imaginary time....

and just like some sort of junky, 'they' oftentimes "want to" -do-

that which is undoubtedly harmful in the longterm

simply because it 'seems' to be correct and right

and even, pleasurable, at a given moment.


so, i should not find my self, desiring to chase

the lure which is hooked in 'their' belly

and showing its woundings in gangrenous ways,

even -with- the appearance of sweet frosty icing.


rather i should -try- to scream aloud;

"ay, you gotta a shiny hook in your belly,

and it's ripping your guts out"



now, is this a "good" thing?


after all, if i should hunt for -my- "evil heart"

and rip it out, even if this "evil" -seems- to be

my own "best interests"



what's the harm in 'them' getting their
guts ripped out by a shiny pretty sweet "lure"

and me just watching with some sort of enjoyment

cuz "they got theirs" ?


-should- 'i' take delight in another's misfortune?


after all, isn't this "misfortune" -bound-

to lead to a superior outcome?



and you tell me i don't need a Savior...


cuz it would seem clear enough, even to me

crouched in my "eviL' little heart,


that, taking delight in 'their' misfortune



is -not- the desired outcome, -for- 'me'



any more than the desired outcome, is 'me'

-feeling- "miserable" because 'they'

seem to have 'something'

that 'i' seem to feel that

'i' would like to possess.



cuz when is the pop-up-toaster

nothing more than a shiny sharp lure

that will rip my guts out?



is it "eviL' for 'me' to 'want' toast?


no


it's something more subtle...

> you talk about them all the time, using them as your talking points,
> whether you feel any animosity towards your props is your own
> problem...

'i' -want- to accept responsibility for my own shortfall

'i' don't -want- to lay a 'blame' on anyone else



because, therein lies my only hope of

renewal and reconcilliation and 'salvage'


because, if i shove -that- all off on 'another'


'i' drive myself off into the land of wind and ghosts

and disappear from view, instead of Azazel...


where, 'Azazel', in large part, -is- a pure figment

which never really had a 'life' of its own.



"gee, it goes on and on for hours, and i still
don't know what the hell it's yammering about"


it's really simple and can be distilled into a few shots

or panned like gold dust in an ocean of rivers


but, -one- of the bottom lines is that

it's difficult to rebel against your self...

and always so much easier' to rebel against 'them'

but when it comes down to 'it'

rebelling against your self

leads to the more advantageous position

> Jesus certainly isn't stopping them from doing their business...

Jesus isn't =imposing= an order right now


-you- may be trying to impose such an order

and finding it difficult to solve 3 equations with 5 unknowns

and finding that tweaking and tweaking the dials

won't quite zero in on the 'order' you -think- you want.


sometimes, you gotta let yourself get took...

strange but true...

> They probably believe they're following Jesus anyway!!!

go ahead, try to blame somebody anybody


if that's your finest "adaptation"


it -ain't- gunna perpetuate your 'survival'



it has no power to remove shortfall.


it just gives a figmentary simulation

of such removal of shortfall.



"it's not my shortfall, it's =THEIRS="


and lo and behold, zzzt, it's -all- down the toobs


etc.

[Timothy Sutter]

Timothy Sutter wrote:

> Adam Christ drinking a cup of jack wrote:

> > > > One of the Chief Executive Devils not only loves the misery and misery
> > > > prevalent in the world, s/he/it also has the capacity to see it
> > > > happens...

> > > i don't need a scapegoat

> > they're not asking you to be their scapegoat,

what it must be like to be "their" 'them'

and have the Rosicrucians and the Templars and the Masons
and the joo bunker conspiracy et al contemplating how "Tim"

is manipulating world events in some strange way
so as to lead to "their" puzzling situations...


now i'm "them" to someone...

and the 33rd degree lodge is puzzling out about
all the curious connectivity that Tim has with
bizarre world events...


i like it, it has a certain panache...



just remember,


"sticks and stones may break my bones,
but, please, don't throw sticks and stones...
no, please, don't thow sticks and stones"

Dr. Gilligan

> no, you're asking me to scapegoat 'them'

the Day of Atonement is at hand...


"yeah right, you wish"


well, i do sort of...

[Adam Christ drinking a cup of jack]

"Tim" as underrated world overlore-d with bugs bunny as vice-villian
in charge...

[Adam Christ drinking a cup of jack]

BTW explain this http://www.wpbf.com/news/23112422/detail.html

[Timothy Sutter]

Adam Christ drinking a cup of jack wrote:

> Timothy Sutter wrote:
> > Timothy Sutter wrote:

> > > Adam Christ drinking a cup of jack wrote:
> > > > > > One of the Chief Executive Devils not only loves the misery and misery
> > > > > > prevalent in the world, s/he/it also has the capacity to see it
> > > > > > happens...

> > > > > i don't need a scapegoat

> > > > they're not asking you to be their scapegoat,

> > what it must be like to be "their" 'them'

> > and have the Rosicrucians and the Templars and the Masons
> > and the joo bunker conspiracy et al contemplating how "Tim"

> > is manipulating world events in some strange way
> > so as to lead to "their" puzzling situations...

> "Tim" as underrated world overlore-d with

> bugs bunny as vice-villian in charge...

now just excise "Tim" and see the fictitious nature of "the conspiracy"

[Timothy Sutter]

Adam Christ drinking a cup of jack wrote:

> BTW explain this http://www.wpbf.com/news/23112422/detail.html

some guy swam with an amusement park dolphin
and claimed the dolphin liked him personally.

[Adam Christ drinking a cup of jack]

well one overarching conspiracy led by a coterie of single minded
power-jackals simply will not do, what of the subconspiracies the
conspiracies within conspiracies the plots within plots...

a conspiracy is an excellent way to get things done, with planning,
execution and resolution.