Jesus = Michael the archangel?

[James]

Jesus = Michael the archangel?

Don't call the men in white coats yet. Hear it out.

Facts: There is apparently many “prince” angels, but only ONE
archangel, Michael. And only one “great prince”. Dan 12:1a,

“At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will
arise.“ (NIV)

The name Michael in reference to the archangel is introduced in the
book of Daniel Chapter 10. In Daniel, he is referred to as "Michael,
your prince." (NIV) and "At that time Michael, the great prince who
protects your people, will arise." (Dan 10:21; 12:1; NIV) Thus Michael
is the prince of Daniel's people, the Israelites.

This connection to Daniel's people is an indicator that this angel is
the same powerful angel that led the Israelites out of Egypt. (Ex
23:20, 21, 23; 32:34; 33:2) Some angel did, right? So it could have
been Michael.

But is there more evidence? Yes, the powerful angel Michael had a
dispute with Satan about Moses' body. (Jude 9) Satan may very well
wanted to trap the Israelites into relic worship, but Michael won and
Moses body ended up in an unmarked grave. (De 34:6) Thus this Michael
was very interested in the affairs of the Israelites.

Jude refers to Michael as an archangel. The Bible doesn't name any
other archangels. And the Bible never uses the word archangel in the
plural form, indicating more than one exists. Thus this "Michael" has
a unique position with God.

According to "Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament" the
word "Archangel" means "Chief of the angels"; or as others say, "Chief
angel". Other than God, the only other persons in the Bible that have
authority over angels are Michael and Jesus. (Mt 25:31)

The Apostle Paul adds further information by connecting the word
"archangel " with Jesus, in 1 Th 4:16,

"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command,
with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and
the dead in Christ will rise first." (NIV)

The scripture literally says "in voice of archangel" . It takes an
archangel to have the voice of an archangel. And if there is only one
archangel or "Chief angel", then it would have to be Jesus.

Jesus is Lord of Lords and King of Kings and over all creation, so
copying a subordinate angelic voice would not be appropriate here. (Re
19:16) Also, notice the Lord had the archangel's voice and with the
"trumpet call of God" then a resurrection of the dead will occur. No
other heavenly creature has been given the authority over the dead
except Jesus, who was given the keys of hades and death. (Rev 1:18) It
wouldn't be appropriate for Paul to compare Jesus' voice with a
subordinate angel who does not have authority over the dead. Jesus'
voice would be completely superior to every other heavenly creatures'
voice.

So was Jesus Michael the archangel? The evidence is there. Some may
say yes, and some no. It's your decision.

Sincerely James
Find the absolute truth
10/7/23
Go to jw.org

[servant]

Friend james; by whom and when was this recycled angel theory first
proposed?

Also, how does this theory play into the 1954 flip flop in jw vatican
doctrine and practice to stop worshiping Christ?

Could you comment on this discussion ith a jw devotee on the question? How
would you have said/done any thing different? What is your response to the
many scriptures cited that contridicts the jw vatican's theory:

Is Jesus the Archangel Michael?

https://www.str.org/w/is-jesus-the-archangel-michael-

[servant]

What does Hebrews 1 reveal as to God/father and Christ/son and the angels:

1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance
obtained a more excellent name than they.

1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son,
this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he
shall be to me a Son?

1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he
saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his
ministers a flame of fire.

1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever:
a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

[No one]

On Oct 7, 2023, James wrote
(in article<ek53ii9vl3v537opj...@4ax.com>):

> Jesus = Michael the archangel?
>
> Don't call the men in white coats yet. Hear it out.
>
> Facts: There is apparently many “prince” angels, but only ONE
> archangel, Michael. And only one “great prince”. Dan 12:1a,
>
> “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will
> arise.“ (NIV)
>
> The name Michael in reference to the archangel is introduced in the
> book of Daniel Chapter 10. In Daniel, he is referred to as "Michael,
> your prince." (NIV) and "At that time Michael, the great prince who
> protects your people, will arise." (Dan 10:21; 12:1; NIV) Thus Michael
> is the prince of Daniel's people, the Israelites.

Dan 10:13But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty
days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I
remained there with the kings of Persia.

Michael is What? One of what? Why do you intend to deceive others?

>
> This connection to Daniel's people is an indicator that this angel is
> the same powerful angel that led the Israelites out of Egypt. (Ex
> 23:20, 21, 23; 32:34; 33:2) Some angel did, right? So it could have
> been Michael.

Did you receive this knowledge from ChatGpt or some other AI entity?
It could have been any angel of the Lords.

>
> But is there more evidence? Yes, the powerful angel Michael had a
> dispute with Satan about Moses' body. (Jude 9) Satan may very well
> wanted to trap the Israelites into relic worship, but Michael won and
> Moses body ended up in an unmarked grave. (De 34:6) Thus this Michael
> was very interested in the affairs of the Israelites.

Michal was one of the angels, what evidence you showed here does not support
any of your other guesses and suppositions.

>
> Jude refers to Michael as an archangel. The Bible doesn't name any
> other archangels. And the Bible never uses the word archangel in the
> plural form, indicating more than one exists. Thus this "Michael" has
> a unique position with God.

Then you better refer to the verses you quoted at the fore, which I C&P for
the edification of all.
It shows your folly.

>
> According to "Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament" the
> word "Archangel" means "Chief of the angels"; or as others say, "Chief
> angel". Other than God, the only other persons in the Bible that have
> authority over angels are Michael and Jesus. (Mt 25:31)

It does not say that at all.

Mat 25:31

31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with
him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Why do you feel at liberty to lie, could it have been given you by the father
of lies?

>
> The Apostle Paul adds further information by connecting the word
> "archangel " with Jesus, in 1 Th 4:16,

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the
voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ
shall rise first:” (1Th 4:16)

What angel or angels in heaven have trumpets to blow?

Read, see, hear the word of the Lord.

Rev 8:2And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were
given seven trumpets.

Rev 8:6And the seven angels which had the seventrumpets prepared themselves
to sound.

Rev 8:13And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven,
saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by
reason of the other voices of thetrumpet of the three angels, which are yet
to sound!

Rev 9:14Saying to the sixth angel which had thetrumpet, Loose the four angels
which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

>
>
> "For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command,
> with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and
> the dead in Christ will rise first." (NIV)
>
> The scripture literally says "in voice of archangel" . It takes an
> archangel to have the voice of an archangel. And if there is only one
> archangel or "Chief angel", then it would have to be Jesus.

Again you repeat a falsehood. See Dan 10:13 as posted above.

>
> Jesus is Lord of Lords and King of Kings and over all creation, so
> copying a subordinate angelic voice would not be appropriate here. (Re
> 19:16) Also, notice the Lord had the archangel's voice and with the
> "trumpet call of God"

Yet you declare that Jesus is not God. Do you speak with the forked tongue of
a serpent?

> then a resurrection of the dead will occur.

You are referencing it the final resurrection at the end of the millennium

However, those that are in Christ...

1Th 4:15-17

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive
and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are
asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the
voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ
shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them
in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the
Lord.

And this happens at the end of this age, the age of the gentiles 1007 years
before the one you speak of.

> No
> other heavenly creature has been given the authority over the dead
> except Jesus, who was given the keys of hades and death. (Rev 1:18)

It says nothing about him having been given those keys.

“I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore,
Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.” (Rev 1:18)

> It wouldn't be appropriate for Paul to compare Jesus' voice with a
> subordinate angel who does not have authority over the dead. Jesus'
> voice would be completely superior to every other heavenly creatures'
> voice.
>
>
> So was Jesus Michael the archangel? The evidence is there. Some may
> say yes, and some no. It's your decision.
>
> Sincerely James

Far, far, better to believe the Word of God, than your evil misdirections and
claims.

[James]

For servants readers:

Vs 8 uses the wrong translation:. It suggests Jesus is God, which he
is not (see John 14:28) Notice:

The following Scripture is in their Bible, brackets and all:

-- New Revised Standard with Apocrypha
Hebrews 1:8 But of the Son he says,
"Your throne, O God, is {Or [God is your throne]} forever and ever,
and the righteous scepter is the scepter of your {Other ancient
authorities read [his]} kingdom.

(Hebrews 1:8) But about the Son, he says: 敵od is your throne forever
and ever, and the scepter of your Kingdom is the scepter of
uprightness. (NWT)

Sincerely James
Find the absolute truth

10/9/23
Go to jw.org

[No one]

On Oct 9, 2023, James wrote
(in article<vgi5iid348fsggdvs...@4ax.com>):

For JW readers;
Not the deceptive lies of that organization and for this reason they are well
known as a cult.

The Godhead is, as one.

Joh 17:11

11And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come
to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given
me, that they may be one, as we are.

"That they may be one, as we are." Get it James? How are you going to deny
this?

God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
V8 below is the truth of Gods word. Yet see the deception of the evil one
that works within the JW org.

Mat 10:33

33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my
Father which is in heaven.

Do you really what this truth to be applied to your eternal soul? For all who
are denied will reside in the Lake of Fire and Brimstone when the time for
mankind on this earth is up.

> Vs 8 uses the wrong translation:. It suggests Jesus is God, which he
> is not (see John 14:28) Notice:
>
> The following Scripture is in their Bible, brackets and all:
>
> -- New Revised Standard with Apocrypha
> Hebrews 1:8 But of the Son he says,
> "Your throne, O God, is {Or [God is your throne]} forever and ever,
> and the righteous scepter is the scepter of your {Other ancient
> authorities read [his]} kingdom.
>

> (Hebrews 1:8) But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne forever

[servant]

>>What does Hebrews 1 reveal as to God/father and Christ/son and the angels:
>>
>>1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance
>>obtained a more excellent name than they.
>>
>> 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son,
>>this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he
>> shall be to me a Son?
>>
>>1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he
>>saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
>>
>> 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his
>>ministers a flame of fire.
>>
>> 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever:
>>a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Yup, no Michael to be found; speaking of His son Christ"all angels to
worship and be subjectHim", no?>

Friend james tries out a rotely learned jw vatican idea/excuse:

>Vs 8 uses the wrong translation:. It suggests Jesus is God, which he
>is not (see John 14:28)

The jw vatican translation is correct? Is that in spite of the fact *NONE*
of the iny jw vatican group doing the "translation" knew greek/hebrew? Now
that special?

[James]

For readers of servant:

The EVIDENCE says otherwise.

If the JW translators were bumbling idiots in Greek and Hebrew, why
did Bible scholars praise their NWT translation? They should have
called it a joke instead:

"For example, the Andover Newton Quarterly of January 1963 said: “The
translation of the New Testament [NWT]is evidence of the presence in
the movement of scholars qualified to deal intelligently with the many
problems of Biblical translation.”" (W99,1015,p.29)

"Dr. Benjamin Kedar, a Hebrew scholar in Israel, made a similar
comment concerning the New World Translation. In 1989 he said: “This
work reflects an honest endeavor to achieve an understanding of the
text that is as accurate as possible. . . . I have never discovered in
the New World Translation any biased intent to read something into the
text that it does not contain.”" (from wol.jw.org)

And on and on.

Best to get info from a truthful web page, than a lying one.

Sincerely James
Be mentally healthy
10/10/23
Go to jw.org

[No one]

On Oct 10, 2023, James wrote
(in article<j4bbiih8kb6j4hcu2...@4ax.com>):

> If the JW translators were bumbling idiots in Greek and Hebrew, why
> did Bible scholars praise their NWT translation? They should have
> called it a joke instead:

A carefully constructed lie. The "Bible scholars" were JW, notice the word
"their" NWT Translation?

[James]

Nice try. They were no more JW's than you are.

[James]

On Mon, 09 Oct 2023 08:55:49 -0700, No one <no...@none.con> wrote:

>On Oct 9, 2023, James wrote
>(in article<vgi5iid348fsggdvs...@4ax.com>):
>
>For JW readers;
>Not the deceptive lies of that organization and for this reason they are well
>known as a cult.
>
>The Godhead is, as one.

"Godhead"? Let's see what Strong's Concordance says that Greek word is
there:

"Strong's Ref. # 2305

Romanized theiotes
Pronounced thi-ot'-ace

from GSN2304; divinity (abstractly):"

Thus it means "divinity ", not Godhead. And Romans 1:20 is speaking
about God.

First the KJV:

-- King James
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the
world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,
even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Now notice some other translations:

-- American Standard
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the
world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are
made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be
without excuse:

-- Living Bible
Romans 1:20 Since earliest times men have seen the earth and sky and
all God made, and have known of his existence and great eternal power.
So they will have no excuse [when they stand before God at Judgment
Day ].

-- Revised Standard
Romans 1:20 Ever since the creation of the world his invisible
nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly
perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without
excuse;

-- International English
Romans 1:20 Since the beginning of the world, the unseen qualities of
God--His unseen power and His divinity--could be clearly seen and
understood from what God made. They have no excuse.

-- New American Standard
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible
attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly
seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are
without excuse.

-- New Jerusalem with Apocrypha
Romans 1:20 ever since the creation of the world, the invisible
existence of God and his everlasting power have been clearly seen by
the mind's understanding of created things. And so these people have
no excuse:

-- New American with Apocrypha
Romans 1:20 Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible
attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be
understood and perceived in what he has made. As a result, they have
no excuse;

-- New Revised Standard with Apocrypha

Romans 1:20 Ever since the creation of the world his eternal power and
divine nature, invisible though they are, have been understood and
seen through the things he has made. So they are without excuse;

-- Darby's Bible
Romans 1:20 -- for from the world's creation the invisible things of
him are perceived, being apprehended by the mind through the things
that are made, both his eternal power and divinity, -- so as to render
them inexcusable.

-- Weymouth's New Testament
Romans 1:20 For, from the very creation of the world, His invisible
perfections - namely His eternal power and divine nature - have been
rendered intelligible and clearly visible by His works, so that these
men are without excuse.

New Living Translation
Romans 1:20 From the time the world was created, people have seen the
earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see his
invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature. So they have
no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God.

-- International Standard Version
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world his invisible
attributes-his eternal power and divine nature-have been understood
and observed by what he made, so that people are without excuse.

-- William's NewTestament
Romans 1:20 Forever since the creation of the world, His invisible
characteristics<s> -- His eternal power and divine nature -- have been
made intelligible and clearly visible by His works. So they are
without excuse,

-- Montgomery New Testament
Romans 1:20 For ever since the creation of the world his invisible
nature, even his everlasting power and divinity, has been clearly
seen, being perceived through the things that are made. So they have
no excuse.

Sincerely James
Be mentally healthy
10/10/23
Go to jw.org






>

>Joh 17:11
>
>11And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come
>to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given
>me, that they may be one, as we are.
>
>"That they may be one, as we are." Get it James? How are you going to deny
>this?
>
>God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
>V8 below is the truth of Gods word. Yet see the deception of the evil one
>that works within the JW org.
>
>Mat 10:33
>
>33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my
>Father which is in heaven.
>
>Do you really what this truth to be applied to your eternal soul? For all who
>are denied will reside in the Lake of Fire and Brimstone when the time for
>mankind on this earth is up.
>
>> Vs 8 uses the wrong translation:. It suggests Jesus is God, which he
>> is not (see John 14:28) Notice:
>>
>> The following Scripture is in their Bible, brackets and all:
>>
>> -- New Revised Standard with Apocrypha
>> Hebrews 1:8 But of the Son he says,
>> "Your throne, O God, is {Or [God is your throne]} forever and ever,
>> and the righteous scepter is the scepter of your {Other ancient
>> authorities read [his]} kingdom.
>>

>> (Hebrews 1:8) But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne forever

[James]

On 07 Oct 2023 21:53:43 GMT, servant wrote:

>
>Friend james; by whom and when was this recycled angel theory first
>proposed?
>
>Also, how does this theory play into the 1954 flip flop in jw vatican
>doctrine and practice to stop worshiping Christ?
>
>Could you comment on this discussion ith a jw devotee on the question? How
>would you have said/done any thing different? What is your response to the
>many scriptures cited that contridicts the jw vatican's theory:
>
>Is Jesus the Archangel Michael?

For servants readers:

True the Bible doesn't come right out and say 'Jesus is Michael the
archangel'. But there is a lot of circumstantial evidence that points
in that direction.

Here is a posting again:

Sincerely James
Be mentally healthy
10/10/23
Go to jw.org








>

>https://www.str.org/w/is-jesus-the-archangel-michael-

[James]

The Bible says what it says about Jesus and Michael. Take it or leave
it.I stand by my posting.

[No one]

On Oct 11, 2023, James wrote
(in article<fagdiit96p6t2ucee...@4ax.com>):

> On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 17:11:49 -0700, No one<no...@none.con> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 10, 2023, James wrote
> > (in article<j4bbiih8kb6j4hcu2...@4ax.com>):
> >
> > > If the JW translators were bumbling idiots in Greek and Hebrew, why
> > > did Bible scholars praise their NWT translation? They should have
> > > called it a joke instead:
> >
> > A carefully constructed lie. The "Bible scholars" were JW, notice the word
> > "their" NWT Translation?
>
> Nice try. They were no more JW's than you are.

The language used there says otherwise.
>
> Sincerely James

[No one]

On Oct 11, 2023, James wrote
(in article<mjgdii57k57o8ivl8...@4ax.com>):

> On Mon, 09 Oct 2023 08:55:49 -0700, No one<no...@none.con> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 9, 2023, James wrote
> > (in article<vgi5iid348fsggdvs...@4ax.com>):
> >
> > For JW readers;
> > Not the deceptive lies of that organization and for this reason they are
> > well
> > known as a cult.
> >
> > The Godhead is, as one.
>
> "Godhead"? Let's see what Strong's Concordance says that Greek word is
> there:
>
> "Strong's Ref. # 2305
>
> Romanized theiotes
> Pronounced thi-ot'-ace

theiotēs

Thayer Definition:

1) divinity, divine nature

theios thi'-os

From G2316; godlike (neuter as noun, divinity): - divine, godhead.

Acts 17:29
None of these used romanize speech.

>
>
> from GSN2304; divinity (abstractly):"
>
> Thus it means "divinity ", not Godhead. And Romans 1:20 is speaking
> about God.

How come I am a partaker of the Divine image of God?

Why me and other members of the ekklesia, and not the JW?

>
>
> First the KJV:
>
> -- King James
> Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the
> world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,
> even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
>
>
>
> >

> > Joh 17:11
> >
> > 11And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come
> > to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given
> > me, that they may be one, as we are.
> >
> > "That they may be one, as we are." Get it James? How are you going to deny
> > this?
> >
> > God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
> > V8 below is the truth of Gods word. Yet see the deception of the evil one
> > that works within the JW org.
> >
> > Mat 10:33
> >
> > 33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my
> > Father which is in heaven.
> >
> > Do you really what this truth to be applied to your eternal soul? For all
> > who
> > are denied will reside in the Lake of Fire and Brimstone when the time for
> > mankind on this earth is up.
> >
> > > Vs 8 uses the wrong translation:. It suggests Jesus is God, which he
> > > is not (see John 14:28) Notice:
> > >
> > > The following Scripture is in their Bible, brackets and all:
> > >
> > > -- New Revised Standard with Apocrypha
> > > Hebrews 1:8 But of the Son he says,
> > > "Your throne, O God, is {Or [God is your throne]} forever and ever,
> > > and the righteous scepter is the scepter of your {Other ancient
> > > authorities read [his]} kingdom.
> > >

> > > (Hebrews 1:8) But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne forever

[James]

Your OPINION is noted./

Sincerely James
Be mentally healthy

10/12/23
Go to jw.org

>>
>> Sincerely James

[James]

On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 23:51:02 -0700, No one <no...@none.con> wrote:

>On Oct 11, 2023, James wrote
>(in article<mjgdii57k57o8ivl8...@4ax.com>):
>
>> On Mon, 09 Oct 2023 08:55:49 -0700, No one<no...@none.con> wrote:
>>
>> > On Oct 9, 2023, James wrote
>> > (in article<vgi5iid348fsggdvs...@4ax.com>):
>> >
>> > For JW readers;
>> > Not the deceptive lies of that organization and for this reason they are
>> > well
>> > known as a cult.
>> >
>> > The Godhead is, as one.
>>
>> "Godhead"? Let's see what Strong's Concordance says that Greek word is
>> there:
>>
>> "Strong's Ref. # 2305
>>
>> Romanized theiotes
>> Pronounced thi-ot'-ace
>

>theiote?s

>
>Thayer Definition:
>
>1) divinity, divine nature
>
>theios thi'-os
>
>From G2316; godlike (neuter as noun, divinity): - divine, godhead.
>
>Acts 17:29
>None of these used romanize speech.
>
>>
>>
>> from GSN2304; divinity (abstractly):"
>>
>> Thus it means "divinity ", not Godhead. And Romans 1:20 is speaking
>> about God.
>
>How come I am a partaker of the Divine image of God?

Because all humans were made in God's image.

>
>Why me and other members of the ekklesia, and not the JW?

?? Be more precise.

Sincerely James
Be mentally healthy

10/12/23
Go to jw.org

>> > > (Hebrews 1:8) But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne forever

[No one]

On Oct 12, 2023, James wrote
(in article<9bsfiipihk04d8m26...@4ax.com>):

> On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 23:36:32 -0700, No one<no...@none.con> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 11, 2023, James wrote
> > (in article<fagdiit96p6t2ucee...@4ax.com>):
> >
> > > On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 17:11:49 -0700, No one<no...@none.con> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Oct 10, 2023, James wrote
> > > > (in article<j4bbiih8kb6j4hcu2...@4ax.com>):
> > > >
> > > > > If the JW translators were bumbling idiots in Greek and Hebrew, why
> > > > > did Bible scholars praise their NWT translation? They should have
> > > > > called it a joke instead:
> > > >
> > > > A carefully constructed lie. The "Bible scholars" were JW, notice the word
> > > > "their" NWT Translation?
> > >
> > > Nice try. They were no more JW's than you are.
> >
> > The language used there says otherwise.
>
> Your OPINION is noted./

If so it will stick with you for a very long time.

[No one]

On Oct 12, 2023, James wrote
(in article<odtfii5glslsiuukp...@4ax.com>):

Than the word of God? Get real.

> > > > > (Hebrews 1:8) But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne

[No one]

On Oct 11, 2023, James wrote
(in article<5ohdiidhjnj3ib1md...@4ax.com>):

I stand by the Word of God. Not that of a cultist.

[James]

False teachings don't stick with me very long.

Sincerely James
Be mentally healthy

10/14/23

[No one]

On Oct 14, 2023, James wrote
(in article<jlflii5n6a76l1e7j...@4ax.com>):

> On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 23:57:01 -0700, No one<no...@none.con> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 12, 2023, James wrote
> > (in article<9bsfiipihk04d8m26...@4ax.com>):
> >
> > > On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 23:36:32 -0700, No one<no...@none.con> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Oct 11, 2023, James wrote
> > > > (in article<fagdiit96p6t2ucee...@4ax.com>):
> > > >
> > > > > On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 17:11:49 -0700, No one<no...@none.con> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Oct 10, 2023, James wrote
> > > > > > (in article<j4bbiih8kb6j4hcu2...@4ax.com>):
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > If the JW translators were bumbling idiots in Greek and Hebrew, why
> > > > > > > did Bible scholars praise their NWT translation? They should have
> > > > > > > called it a joke instead:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A carefully constructed lie. The "Bible scholars" were JW, notice the
> > > > > > word "their" NWT Translation?
> > > > >
> > > > > Nice try. They were no more JW's than you are.
> > > >
> > > > The language used there says otherwise.
> > >
> > > Your OPINION is noted./
> >
> > If so it will stick with you for a very long time.
>
> False teachings don't stick with me very long.

Now that is a lie. How long have you been a JW?

And why is Jesus your current center point and not Jehovah?

> Sincerely James

[James]

Mucho years.

>
>And why is Jesus your current center point and not Jehovah?

They both always are. Why such a question? People change their
"current center point" all the time.

Sincerely James
Can all wars be stopped?
10/17/23

[James]

So do I. (2 Tim 3:16)

Sincerely James
Can all wars be stopped?
10/17/23
Go to jw.org


>
>>
>>

[No one]

On Oct 17, 2023, James wrote
(in article<ouctiipcejtvp0fkv...@4ax.com>):

> On Sun, 15 Oct 2023 15:37:40 -0700, No one<no...@none.con> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 14, 2023, James wrote
> > (in article<jlflii5n6a76l1e7j...@4ax.com>):
> >
> > > On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 23:57:01 -0700, No one<no...@none.con> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Oct 12, 2023, James wrote
> > > > (in article<9bsfiipihk04d8m26...@4ax.com>):
> > > >
> > > > > On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 23:36:32 -0700, No one<no...@none.con> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Oct 11, 2023, James wrote
> > > > > > (in article<fagdiit96p6t2ucee...@4ax.com>):
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 17:11:49 -0700, No one<no...@none.con> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Oct 10, 2023, James wrote
> > > > > > > > (in article<j4bbiih8kb6j4hcu2...@4ax.com>):
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If the JW translators were bumbling idiots in Greek and Hebrew, why
> > > > > > > > > did Bible scholars praise their NWT translation? They should have
> > > > > > > > > called it a joke instead:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A carefully constructed lie. The "Bible scholars" were JW, notice the
> > > > > > > > word "their" NWT Translation?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Nice try. They were no more JW's than you are.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The language used there says otherwise.
> > > > >
> > > > > Your OPINION is noted./
> > > >
> > > > If so it will stick with you for a very long time.
> > >
> > > False teachings don't stick with me very long.
> >
> > Now that is a lie. How long have you been a JW?
>
> Mucho years.

It is Mucho Anos

>
> >
> > And why is Jesus your current center point and not Jehovah?
>
> They both always are. Why such a question? People change their
> "current center point" all the time.

Yet you do not change the title of your cult?
>
>
> Sincerely James

[No one]

On Oct 17, 2023, James wrote
(in article<d2ntiidocmive8ovm...@4ax.com>):

“That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good
works.” (2Ti 3:17, KJV)

You do not fit that criteria, according to your words.

[NightBulb.net]

So you mean to say that popular opinion is the measuring stick of truth?

> "For example, the Andover Newton Quarterly of January 1963 said: “The
> translation of the New Testament [NWT]is evidence of the presence in
> the movement of scholars qualified to deal intelligently with the many
> problems of Biblical translation.”" (W99,1015,p.29)
>
> "Dr. Benjamin Kedar, a Hebrew scholar in Israel, made a similar
> comment concerning the New World Translation. In 1989 he said: “This
> work reflects an honest endeavor to achieve an understanding of the
> text that is as accurate as possible. . . . I have never discovered in
> the New World Translation any biased intent to read something into the
> text that it does not contain.”" (from wol.jw.org)

He should have looked a little harder. The bias is obvious.

> And on and on.
>
> Best to get info from a truthful web page, than a lying one.

Your cult says anything that uncovers its lies is a lie.

--

NightBulb | https://nightbulb.net | Flip the night switch.

[NightBulb.net]

On 07 Oct 2023 22:07:55 GMT

servant wrote:

> What does Hebrews 1 reveal as to God/father and Christ/son and the
> angels:
>
> 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by
> inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

The "angels" means the prophets who came before Jesus Christ. It is not
in reference to supernatural beings. All the prophets are angels.
"Angel" means messenger, envoy, ambassador. The Apostle is telling
us that Jesus is higher in rank and authority than all the prophets. He
is NOT talking about supernatural beings. If you want to go that route
then we are all supernatural beings, as our minds are spirit, breathed
into existence by God. Try not to be a cherry-picking raisin-splitter.

> 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my
> Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a
> Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

The Apostle is pointing out that God did not appoint this sonship upon
any of the former prophets. Jesus is the first prophet to be declared
God's Son and heir to all of God's authority. Jesus is the true Israel,
the firstborn son of God appointed to defy Pharaoh, the false god of
the world order of darkness.

> 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world,
> he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

"All the angels of God" is all the Prophets, Apostles, believers,
saints, etc. Everyone is to give Christ the preeminence.

> 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and
> his ministers a flame of fire.
>
> 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and
> ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Jesus is above all the messengers of God, and will judge all.

[NightBulb.net]

On Sat, 07 Oct 2023 13:43:15 -0400
James <zeb...@windstream.net> wrote:

> The scripture literally says "in voice of archangel" . It takes an
> archangel to have the voice of an archangel. And if there is only one
> archangel or "Chief angel", then it would have to be Jesus.

Angel is from "aggelos" or "angelos" and means an envoy or messenger.

The Apostles are archangels. Each king of a nation or tribe is an
archangel in God's kingdom.

You are once again, taking your religious myth, and raisin-picking
scriptures in a way to prop up your myth.

[NightBulb.net]

On Sat, 07 Oct 2023 13:43:15 -0400
James <zeb...@windstream.net> wrote:

> So was Jesus Michael the archangel? The evidence is there. Some may
> say yes, and some no. It's your decision.

As long as you can make the word of God flexible, you can make it mean
anything you want it to mean. Your bible study consists of picking
cherries and splitting raisins and figs.

[NightBulb.net]

On Sat, 07 Oct 2023 13:43:15 -0400
James <zeb...@windstream.net> wrote:

> So was Jesus Michael the archangel? The evidence is there. Some may
> say yes, and some no. It's your decision.

It's your delusion. And you can keep it. No thanks!

[NightBulb.net]

On Sat, 07 Oct 2023 16:30:21 -0700
No one <no...@none.con> wrote:

> > No
> > other heavenly creature has been given the authority over the dead
> > except Jesus, who was given the keys of hades and death. (Rev 1:18)

Peter also got the keys.

"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I
will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against
it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and
whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and
whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

If you try to claim that Peter is not a "heavenly creature" you have a
tough row to hoe. If he is a new creature in Christ, then for sure he
is a heavenly creature. And if he has the keys of heaven, he for sure
is a heavenly creature. If he is one of the twelve Apostles of the Lamb
that sits around God's throne, then for certain he is a heavenly
creature. That which is sown in the earth and dies is raised a
quickening spirit and is heavenly. For it is written we first bear the
image of the earthy, and then we will bear the image of the heavenly.

> It says nothing about him having been given those keys.
>
> “I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for
> evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.” (Rev 1:18)

It's tragic watching both you twain each pretend he is an expert in the
bible, when at almost every turn you only see part of the story and
miss the main point. God sent Jesus, who took away the sin of the
world. Sin is gone. It has been taken out of the way. Now all is left
is the burning hellfire of wrath which men bring upon themselves by
refusing God's grace. You both cherry-pick and raisin-pick whatever
verses you think will prove your preconceived notions.

[NightBulb.net]

On Sat, 07 Oct 2023 13:43:15 -0400
James <zeb...@windstream.net> wrote:

> But is there more evidence? Yes, the powerful angel Michael had a
> dispute with Satan about Moses' body. (Jude 9) Satan may very well
> wanted to trap the Israelites into relic worship, but Michael won and
> Moses body ended up in an unmarked grave. (De 34:6) Thus this Michael
> was very interested in the affairs of the Israelites.

Moses "body" means the law of Moses and the tribes of Israel, not the
man's corpse. The dispute is about who will have the dominion. Although
you quoted Jude 1:9, you omitted the prior verse and verses after:

Jude 1:8,10-11
Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise
dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what
they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt
themselves. Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of
Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and
perished in the gainsaying of Core.

The dispute is about dominion over tribes of Israel and nations, and
the manner or law of sacrifice, and who carries on in the authority of
Moses (Joshua at the time). Each tribe and nation has at its head a
"archangel" or chief messenger or envoy to the King of Kings. An
Apostle is an archangel. But who is the lead archangel is in dispute,
until if falls upon Joshua.

Dominion comes by the blood of Jesus Christ, not by man forcing a
sacrifice by means of man's hands. The Devil, or Satan, sought to take
the body of Moses (the law) and use it to provoke Israel to sin through
idolatry or fleshly hero worship (clergy, pastorate). Getting them to
trust in the law (or leaders) instead of the blood of Jesus is a form of
idolatry. Giving the law dominion would continue the curse of the law,
and Michael left it to the Lord to rebuke the accuser.

[NightBulb.net]

On Sat, 07 Oct 2023 13:43:15 -0400
James <zeb...@windstream.net> wrote:

> Facts: There is apparently many “prince” angels, but only ONE
> archangel, Michael. And only one “great prince”. Dan 12:1a,

In Daniel 12, the English phrase, "chief princes" is from the Hebrew,
"rishon sar". The word, "rishon" is from Hebrew, "roshe" and means
exactly the same thing as the Greek, "arche" or "archon". In fact, the
Hebrew, "roshe" and the Greek, "arche", ARE THE SAME WORD in the most
ancient proto-Greek and Hebrew dialects. The later Hebrew drops the
leading, "a" from "arache" to form, "roshe" while the Greek retains it.

A lot of Hebrew and Proto Greek words are identical words or nearly
identical. Paleo-Hebrew was a pidgin language formed from the influence
of many other languages in the regions the Hebrews journeyed, from
Egypt, to Peria, to Grecia, and other regions of the ancient Near East
and North Africa.

The Hebrew, "Rishon sar" means the same thing as the Greek, "archon
aggelo," or "archangel." So the, "chief princes" are the "archangels."
Michael is not the only "archangel" as you claim.

So we see that the bible does not say there is only one archangel.
There are several archangels, or "chief princes" of the throne of
Israel.

Also, archangel does not imply a supernatural being, as some suppose.

"Angel" simply means "messenger" or "envoy." It does not imply anything
supernatural by itself.

An apostle is an "angel" who proceeds directly from the King. The Greek
word, Apostle could also be translated as Envoy or Ambassador. The Greek
Apostle is also equivalent to "archangel" and the Hebrew for
"archangel," the phrase, "rishon sar." There are at least twelve
archangels under the new covenant: The twelve Apostles are all
archangels. Peter is the chief of these archangels, and Christ is the
King, or highest archangel of all, the one who proceeds directly from
the throne of the Father to the other Princes or Archangels.

[James]

Since we are not a cult, there is nothing to change. Look up the
definition of a "cult". There is a multitude of different definitions.
Some define it so as to make Jesus a cult. Others define it to make
ALL Christian religion cults. Etc.

Sincerely James
Israel and Armageddon
10/23/23

[James]

On Tue, 17 Oct 2023 15:12:06 -0400, James <zeb...@windstream.net>
wrote:

Good for you.

Sincerely James
Israel and Armageddon
10/23/23

[No one]

On Oct 23, 2023, James wrote
(in article<3e1ejipsdb3he3n0j...@4ax.com>):

You are a cult, you preach a far different gospel and for that reason you are
accursed.

Re Paul the apostle speaking what God gave him to speak.

[James]

You are highly mislead. Observe:

"People also ask
What is the true meaning of gospel?
good news
The word itself comes from a Greek word euangelion, which literally
means “good news.” In the New Testament, it refers to the announcement
that Jesus has brought the reign of God to our world through his life,
death, and resurrection from the dead."

JW's fully agree. And they preach that "reign of God" as the
approaching of God's Kingdom:

-- New King James
Matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all
the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Like it or not, JW's are the one's fulfilling Mt 24:14.
Do you know what God's Kingdom is?

Sincerely James
Israel and Armageddon

10/25`/23
Go to jw.org

[No one]

On Oct 25, 2023, James wrote
(in article<cqdiji1ffbe3n1sm8...@4ax.com>):

Certainly, at this time it is a spiritual kingdom, in the not to distant
future it will be a physical Kingdom as well, the time when Christ rules the
entire earth for 1000 years and at the beginning of that Satan will be tossed
into bottom less pit for a thousand years and at the end of that time he will
be released to gather up all who are opposed to Jesus to war against him. You
are not a member of either one of those kingdoms as you have chosen to follow
a cult, not Jesus.
>
>
> Sincerely James

[James]

We don't follow Jesus? You have been listening to false teachers. Just
pick up any of our literature, and see how we follow Jesus. What
people get upset about is that we go by the Bible only, and thus do
not believe Jesus is God.

Here is a very simple challenge to convince me. Just explain each of
the following:


Jesus didn't know the day or hour. But only God did.(Mt 24:36)
Cannot look at God and still live. (Ex 33:20)
No man has ever seen God; (1 John 4:12)
Jesus has the same God as we do. (Mt 27:46)
No one has seen the Father. (John 6:46)
Jesus said he was the start of God's creations. (Rev 3:14)
Yes, Jesus was created by God (Col 1:15)
God is not a three headed freak, but only ONE God. (Deut 6:4)
God is not a three headed freak, but only ONE God. (Mr 12:29)
Only God is good. (Mr 10:18)
Jesus said must worship and serve only God. (Mt 4:10)
In Heaven, God is the head of Jesus. (1 Cor 11:3)
Jesus' angel said to "Worship God", not Jesus (Rev 19:10)
-- New King James
He trusted in God; let Him deliver Him now if He will have Him; for He
said, `I am the Son of God.' (Matthew 27:43 )
God is greater than Jesus. (John 14:28)

I reason on these that Jesus cannot be God.

Sincerely James
Israel and Armageddon

10/26/23
Go to jw.org

[No one]

On Oct 26, 2023, James wrote
(in article<3hokji16mn6psa7i6...@4ax.com>):

Gimme a break, you espouse the Kingdom of God in which Jesus rules. You speak
constantly of Jesus, Yet deny that He is God.

That is of the spirit of the Antichrist, pure and simple, it is a far
different Gospel that Paul taught and so it is accursed.

I have been hammering on you about that for months, and you wander all
around, if full deceit.

>
>
> Here is a very simple challenge to convince me. Just explain each of
> the following:

I already have. And your answer regarding my reply. "I probably forgot all
about it, as I do not retain what I do not believe"

So why, when you are not open to reasoning would I waste the time giving you
multiple replies, as I type everything fresh and do not thoughtlessly cut and
paste things in like you do"

[James]

The Bible does. That is where I get it from. For example:

-- New King James
John 14:28 "You have heard Me say to you, `I am going away and coming
back to you.' If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, `I am
going to the Father,' for My Father is greater than I.

>
>That is of the spirit of the Antichrist, pure and simple, it is a far
>different Gospel that Paul taught and so it is accursed.
>
>I have been hammering on you about that for months, and you wander all
>around, if full deceit.

It is EXACTLY the same 'gospel' that the apostle Paul speaks. And Paul
knew that Jesus was not God.

Up in Heaven. To repeat, up in Heaven where Jesus was right then, Paul
said:

-- New King James
1 Corinthians 11:3 But I want you to know that the head of every man
is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

>
>>
>>
>> Here is a very simple challenge to convince me. Just explain each of
>> the following:
>
>I already have.

Forgive my bluntness, but I don't believe you. Please copy and paste
it then, or humor me and answer them. (again). Here is the list again:

Jesus didn't know the day or hour. But only God did.(Mt 24:36)
Cannot look at God and still live. (Ex 33:20)
No man has ever seen God; (1 John 4:12)
Jesus has the same God as we do. (Mt 27:46)
No one has seen the Father. (John 6:46)
Jesus said he was the start of God's creations. (Rev 3:14)
Yes, Jesus was created by God (Col 1:15)
God is not a three headed freak, but only ONE God. (Deut 6:4)
God is not a three headed freak, but only ONE God. (Mr 12:29)
Only God is good. (Mr 10:18)
Jesus said must worship and serve only God. (Mt 4:10)
In Heaven, God is the head of Jesus. (1 Cor 11:3)
Jesus' angel said to "Worship God", not Jesus (Rev 19:10)

God is greater than Jesus. (John 14:28)

Jesus said, "I am God's Son", not 'I am God'. (John 10:36)

[No one]

On Oct 31, 2023, James wrote
(in article<jrj2kihuj85uf30sc...@4ax.com>):

You use that verse often, but it does not support your lying comments.

“I and my Father are one.” (Joh 10:30)

“If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye
believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the
Father is in me, and I in him.” (Joh 10:37-38)

The Jews fully believed that he said he was God, and for that reason they
desired to stone him.

Who knows better, you, of the hateful Jews of that day?

>
> >
> > That is of the spirit of the Antichrist, pure and simple, it is a far
> > different Gospel that Paul taught and so it is accursed.
> >
> > I have been hammering on you about that for months, and you wander all
> > around, if full deceit.
>
> It is EXACTLY the same 'gospel' that the apostle Paul speaks. And Paul
> knew that Jesus was not God.

Romans three says he is, you should read it sometime.

“Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and
uncircumcision through faith.” (Rom 3:30)

If he is only man, then how can you have faith in Him, Jesus?

>
> Up in Heaven. To repeat, up in Heaven where Jesus was right then, Paul
> said:
>
> -- New King James
> 1 Corinthians 11:3 But I want you to know that the head of every man
> is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Husband and wife are called "one" in the Lord. As One. Yet it also says that
the Husband is the one in authority/Head of the House.

Jesus likewise is one with the Father, the Father being His head. Jesus was
never ashamed of that, why do you blaspheme God who set aside his authority
to become less than an angel so that he could be born and die, as a man? Who
when he ascended up to Heaven His Glory was returned to Him by His Father,
yet you seek to deny him before His Father as all mankind.

You appear to have no problem spitting on Him and His shed blood for your
sins, and you as head of your household seek to condemn your entire family to
the same death as yourself. Yet you claim to love them. Thus as if tossing
them into the Lake of Fire as if by your hands And that you will be required
to deal with for eternity.

>
> >
> > > Here is a very simple challenge to convince me. Just explain each of
> > > the following:
> >
> > I already have.
>
> Forgive my bluntness, but I don't believe you. Please copy and paste
> it then, or humor me and answer them. (again). Here is the list again:

I never save what I write, it is fresh every time I write something. So I
cannot paste what I wrote unless I found copies of it on the Usenet.

You can lie, and say you don't believe me as you have already exonerated
yourself by stating that you dismiss and forget everything that disagrees
with you, Including scripture, yet you have on more than one occasion
remembered what I said previously/

There are at least three times I had written these out. You never denied any
point I made from scripture.

[James]

If I am lying, then the Bible is lying, since that is usually the
source of my comments.

>
>“I and my Father are one.” (Joh 10:30)

They are one what? Jesus said the husband and wife are one. One
person? But it gets even better.

Back in John again, jump down to chapter 17 and notice vs 21,22:

" 21. "that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in
You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that
You sent Me.
22. "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they
may be one just as We are one:" (NKJV)

Vs 21: "they may also be one in us". Is God then many more persons
than just three? Or does "one" not mean bodily substance, but in
agreement.

Vs 22: "they may be one just as We are one:" Are all of Jesus'
disciples a conglomerate of just one person? Or does it mean they all
agree with each other.

>
>“If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye
>believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the
>Father is in me, and I in him.” (Joh 10:37-38)

See above what John means by that statement. It has NOTHING to do with
that 4th century Trinity.

>
>The Jews fully believed that he said he was God, and for that reason they
>desired to stone him.

The Jews believed all kinds of things. That is why Jesus called them
offspring of vipers, and that they were WICKED. (Mt 3:7) If they are
your source of proof you have grossly weak proof.

>
>Who knows better, you, of the hateful Jews of that day?

I know more of what the Bible teaches than those WICKED "hateful
Jews".

>
>>
>> >
>> > That is of the spirit of the Antichrist, pure and simple, it is a far
>> > different Gospel that Paul taught and so it is accursed.
>> >
>> > I have been hammering on you about that for months, and you wander all
>> > around, if full deceit.
>>
>> It is EXACTLY the same 'gospel' that the apostle Paul speaks. And Paul
>> knew that Jesus was not God.
>
>Romans three says he is, you should read it sometime.
>
>“Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and
>uncircumcision through faith.” (Rom 3:30)
>
>If he is only man, then how can you have faith in Him, Jesus?

The Bible says Jesus was God's Son, and to have faith in him. That's
good enough for me.

>
>>
>> Up in Heaven. To repeat, up in Heaven where Jesus was right then, Paul
>> said:
>>
>> -- New King James
>> 1 Corinthians 11:3 But I want you to know that the head of every man
>> is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
>
>Husband and wife are called "one" in the Lord. As One. Yet it also says that
>the Husband is the one in authority/Head of the House.
>
>Jesus likewise is one with the Father, the Father being His head.

Then you don't believe Jesus is the second part of that 4th century
Trinity where it says they are all equal?

>Jesus was
>never ashamed of that, why do you blaspheme God who set aside his authority
>to become less than an angel so that he could be born and die, as a man?

God NEVER became a man. God's Son did, God NEVER DIED, but Jesus did
for 3 days. Thus they can't be the same person.

>Who
>when he ascended up to Heaven His Glory was returned to Him by His Father,

You just contradicted yourself. You are saying the God became a man,
yet the Father God remained in Heaven? You are not making any sense.
The Bible can clear your confusion up.

God created Jesus. (Col 1:15)
The Bible said he was God's Son. (Mr 1:1)
Jesus said the Father was greater than him. (John 14:28)
Even in Heaven. (1 Cor 11:3)

>yet you seek to deny him before His Father as all mankind.

How does it go? Oh yes, ....pants on fire.

>
>You appear to have no problem spitting on Him and His shed blood for your
>sins, and you as head of your household seek to condemn your entire family to
>the same death as yourself. Yet you claim to love them. Thus as if tossing
>them into the Lake of Fire as if by your hands And that you will be required
>to deal with for eternity.

If you weren't so serious, it would be humorous.

The Bible says even the righteous are saved with DIFFICULTY. Thus
there is no 'once saved, always saved'. Jesus said you have to remain
faithful to the end. (Mt 24:13)

>>
>> >
>> > > Here is a very simple challenge to convince me. Just explain each of
>> > > the following:
>> >
>> > I already have.
>>
>> Forgive my bluntness, but I don't believe you. Please copy and paste
>> it then, or humor me and answer them. (again). Here is the list again:
>
>I never save what I write, it is fresh every time I write something. So I
>cannot paste what I wrote unless I found copies of it on the Usenet.
>
>You can lie, and say you don't believe me as you have already exonerated
>yourself by stating that you dismiss and forget everything that disagrees
>with you, Including scripture, yet you have on more than one occasion
>remembered what I said previously/
>
>There are at least three times I had written these out. You never denied any
>point I made from scripture.

Really? Please give me an example.

Sincerely James
War. What help for
innocent victims?
11/1/23
Go to jw.org



>

[No one]

On Nov 1, 2023, James wrote
(in article<q775ki5stvorcntg1...@4ax.com>):

You are not the author of scripture.
Satan also quotes the word of God and he is known to be liar, deceiver and
redefines the word of the Lord to suit his purposes,

>
>
> >
> > “I and my Father are one.” (Joh 10:30)
>
> They are one what? Jesus said the husband and wife are one. One
> person? But it gets even better.
>
> Back in John again, jump down to chapter 17 and notice vs 21,22:
>
> " 21. "that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in
> You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that
> You sent Me.
> 22. "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they
> may be one just as We are one:" (NKJV)

That has nothing to do with male or female, or their marriage, and what you
just did is exactly what I explained above regarding satan and the doctrines
of the JW. It has to do with the born again ones and the Godhead.

>
> Vs 21: "they may also be one in us". Is God then many more persons
> than just three? Or does "one" not mean bodily substance, but in
> agreement.

That is what the Godhead is, and it also is what the relationship between the
ekklesia and God, as he described.

>
>
> Vs 22: "they may be one just as We are one:" Are all of Jesus'
> disciples a conglomerate of just one person? Or does it mean they all
> agree with each other.

It means they are all of the same spirit. PLUS, not just the people you
alluded to but to ALL born Again believers.

>
> >
> > “If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though
> > ye
> > believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the
> > Father is in me, and I in him.” (Joh 10:37-38)
>
> See above what John means by that statement. It has NOTHING to do with
> that 4th century Trinity.

And you know full well that I do not subscribe to that doctrine, and you just
again broke your promise to me of using that statement as if I did.

>
>
> >
> > The Jews fully believed that he said he was God, and for that reason they
> > desired to stone him.
>
> The Jews believed all kinds of things. That is why Jesus called them
> offspring of vipers, and that they were WICKED. (Mt 3:7) If they are
> your source of proof you have grossly weak proof.

That is your opinion. Especially since you just accused all Jews of all
times, thus rendering the OT erroneous. Yet you claimed to base your beliefs
on it and its Godly men.

>
> >
> > Who knows better, you, of the hateful Jews of that day?
>
> I know more of what the Bible teaches than those WICKED "hateful
> Jews".

Nope, you do not. You have shown us that by your words and doctrines.

>
> > >
> > > > That is of the spirit of the Antichrist, pure and simple, it is a far
> > > > different Gospel that Paul taught and so it is accursed.
> > > >
> > > > I have been hammering on you about that for months, and you wander all
> > > > around, if full deceit.
> > >
> > > It is EXACTLY the same 'gospel' that the apostle Paul speaks. And Paul
> > > knew that Jesus was not God.
> >
> > Romans three says he is, you should read it sometime.
> >
> > “Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and
> > uncircumcision through faith.” (Rom 3:30)
> >
> > If he is only man, then how can you have faith in Him, Jesus?
>
> The Bible says Jesus was God's Son, and to have faith in him. That's
> good enough for me.

Yet you do not. You have no Faith in Jesus as God. Your word play gives you
and every deceiving spirit of the JW away as liars.

>
>
> >
> > >
> > > Up in Heaven. To repeat, up in Heaven where Jesus was right then, Paul
> > > said:
> > >
> > > -- New King James
> > > 1 Corinthians 11:3 But I want you to know that the head of every man
> > > is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
> >
> > Husband and wife are called "one" in the Lord. As One. Yet it also says that
> > the Husband is the one in authority/Head of the House.
> >
> > Jesus likewise is one with the Father, the Father being His head.
>
> Then you don't believe Jesus is the second part of that 4th century
> Trinity where it says they are all equal?

I have told you many times, as I reminded you above that I hold to the
Godhead as one.

Jesus and I are one, yet he is greater. My wife and I are one, yet I am
greater. My children are one with my wife and I, yet we are greater.

Plus, EVERYONE who is born again, has the full authority of Christ and can do
what the Father asks of them, if they believe. We all have full access to the
throne of God, at this or any time.

>
>
> > Jesus was
> > never ashamed of that, why do you blaspheme God who set aside his authority
> > to become less than an angel so that he could be born and die, as a man?
>
> God NEVER became a man. God's Son did, God NEVER DIED, but Jesus did
> for 3 days. Thus they can't be the same person.

That is another one of your lies, as I have personally shown you many times
your errors in this regard. From scripture. Even have repeated it to you
several times as you claimed to forget. Not once have you had the ears to
hear, nor the eyes to see, the truth as given in Scripture.

This is why I can say that you lie, and lie a lot with the full intention of
deceiving others. Which you WILL be held accountable for if you do not
repent, and have all your sins washed away by the Blood of Jesus.

>
>
> > Who
> > when he ascended up to Heaven His Glory was returned to Him by His Father,
>
> You just contradicted yourself. You are saying the God became a man,
> yet the Father God remained in Heaven? You are not making any sense.

Because you are blinded and deafend by the evil one.

>
> The Bible can clear your confusion up.
>
> God created Jesus. (Col 1:15)

“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.”
(Col 1:15)

I too, as is every human, the image of the invisible God. Jesus was the first
who was risen from the Grave as a fully redeemed man, not a spirit, but had
flesh and bone as He showed and told the disciples. He is the Firstborn of
many.

>
> The Bible said he was God's Son. (Mr 1:1)
> Jesus said the Father was greater than him. (John 14:28)
> Even in Heaven. (1 Cor 11:3)

All these things I addressed already in this thread, with you. Showing your
errors.

>
> > yet you seek to deny him before His Father as all mankind.
>
> How does it go? Oh yes, ....pants on fire.

You deny him as God, when all mankind knows that he is, and many bend the
knee to Him.
Fact is, I will be posting today a refresh on Him as God, the God of King
David.

Pray that your bile does not back up in your throat choking you in the midst
of you reading it.

>
> >
> > You appear to have no problem spitting on Him and His shed blood for your
> > sins, and you as head of your household seek to condemn your entire family
> > to the same death as yourself. Yet you claim to love them. Thus as if tossing
> > them into the Lake of Fire as if by your hands And that you will be required
> > to deal with for eternity.
>
> If you weren't so serious, it would be humorous.
>
> The Bible says even the righteous are saved with DIFFICULTY. Thus
> there is no 'once saved, always saved'. Jesus said you have to remain
> faithful to the end. (Mt 24:13)

Once saved, and then continuing on in Faith, walking in the spirit, we shall
not die, but pass from this life to the next.

And yes, if a person renounces Jesus as Lord, to continue walking in their
fleshly desires, knowingly, there is no recourse as Jesus cannot be sacrifice
again for the sins of men.

Greater the Gift, greater the responsibility.

>
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > Here is a very simple challenge to convince me. Just explain each of
> > > > > the following:
> > > >
> > > > I already have.
> > >
> > > Forgive my bluntness, but I don't believe you. Please copy and paste
> > > it then, or humor me and answer them. (again). Here is the list again:
> >
> > I never save what I write, it is fresh every time I write something. So I
> > cannot paste what I wrote unless I found copies of it on the Usenet.
> >
> > You can lie, and say you don't believe me as you have already exonerated
> > yourself by stating that you dismiss and forget everything that disagrees
> > with you, Including scripture, yet you have on more than one occasion
> > remembered what I said previously/
> >
> > There are at least three times I had written these out. You never denied any
> > point I made from scripture.
>
> Really? Please give me an example.

I gave you an example above in my reply.
>
>
> Sincerely James

[James]

No kidding!

>Satan also quotes the word of God and he is known to be liar, deceiver and
>redefines the word of the Lord to suit his purposes,

Correct. He also at times pretends to be an angel of righteousness.

>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > “I and my Father are one.” (Joh 10:30)
>>
>> They are one what? Jesus said the husband and wife are one. One
>> person? But it gets even better.
>>
>> Back in John again, jump down to chapter 17 and notice vs 21,22:
>>
>> " 21. "that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in
>> You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that
>> You sent Me.
>> 22. "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they
>> may be one just as We are one:" (NKJV)
>
>That has nothing to do with male or female, or their marriage, and what you
>just did is exactly what I explained above regarding satan and the doctrines
>of the JW. It has to do with the born again ones and the Godhead.

Read it carefully again:

" 21. "that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in
You; that they also may be one in Us,"

You earlier showed John 10:30 that it allegedly proved Jesus was God.
IF that is true, then Jesus' disciples are also God because they are
ONE with God and Jesus. You can't have it both ways.

>
>>
>> Vs 21: "they may also be one in us". Is God then many more persons
>> than just three? Or does "one" not mean bodily substance, but in
>> agreement.
>
>That is what the Godhead is, and it also is what the relationship between the
>ekklesia and God, as he described.

So instead of a Trinity, God is a multiplicity? I don't think even the
churches would buy that.

>>
>>
>> Vs 22: "they may be one just as We are one:" Are all of Jesus'
>> disciples a conglomerate of just one person? Or does it mean they all
>> agree with each other.
>
>It means they are all of the same spirit.

Then that must be what John 10:30 means.Again, you can't have it both
ways.

>PLUS, not just the people you
>alluded to but to ALL born Again believers.

>>
>> >
>> > “If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though
>> > ye
>> > believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the
>> > Father is in me, and I in him.” (Joh 10:37-38)
>>
>> See above what John means by that statement. It has NOTHING to do with
>> that 4th century Trinity.
>
>And you know full well that I do not subscribe to that doctrine, and you just
>again broke your promise to me of using that statement as if I did.

Some time ago my computer crashed. I lost all my notes. But I have
recorded it again. Also, what Bible translation do you use?

>>
>>
>> >
>> > The Jews fully believed that he said he was God, and for that reason they
>> > desired to stone him.
>>
>> The Jews believed all kinds of things. That is why Jesus called them
>> offspring of vipers, and that they were WICKED. (Mt 3:7) If they are
>> your source of proof you have grossly weak proof.
>
>That is your opinion. Especially since you just accused all Jews of all
>times, thus rendering the OT erroneous.

Please explain. I don't understand you.

>Yet you claimed to base your beliefs
>on it and its Godly men.

I not only claim it, but I actually DO base all my beliefs on the Holy
Bible. Almost all Bible translations get across the basic truths. So I
use them all at times. (after verifying they are correct)

>>
>> >
>> > Who knows better, you, of the hateful Jews of that day?
>>
>> I know more of what the Bible teaches than those WICKED "hateful
>> Jews".
>
>Nope, you do not. You have shown us that by your words and doctrines.

Then we have a difference of opinion. Even you should know more than
the Jews of Jesus' day. For example, there has been over 2000 years of
Bible research.

>>
>> > >
>> > > > That is of the spirit of the Antichrist, pure and simple, it is a far
>> > > > different Gospel that Paul taught and so it is accursed.
>> > > >
>> > > > I have been hammering on you about that for months, and you wander all
>> > > > around, if full deceit.
>> > >
>> > > It is EXACTLY the same 'gospel' that the apostle Paul speaks. And Paul
>> > > knew that Jesus was not God.
>> >
>> > Romans three says he is, you should read it sometime.
>> >
>> > “Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and
>> > uncircumcision through faith.” (Rom 3:30)
>> >
>> > If he is only man, then how can you have faith in Him, Jesus?
>>
>> The Bible says Jesus was God's Son, and to have faith in him. That's
>> good enough for me.
>
>Yet you do not. You have no Faith in Jesus as God. Your word play gives you
>and every deceiving spirit of the JW away as liars.

But just think about it, if what we say is true. You and the churches
are worshipping a creation of God. (Col 1:15) God demands exclusive
worship:

-- New King James
Exodus 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before Me.

I don't understand twisted Scriptures.

>
>This is why I can say that you lie, and lie a lot with the full intention of
>deceiving others. Which you WILL be held accountable for if you do not
>repent, and have all your sins washed away by the Blood of Jesus.

We ALL need to repent of our sins.

>>
>>
>> > Who
>> > when he ascended up to Heaven His Glory was returned to Him by His Father,
>>
>> You just contradicted yourself. You are saying the God became a man,
>> yet the Father God remained in Heaven? You are not making any sense.
>
>Because you are blinded and deafend by the evil one.

We are told to REASON on the Scriptures.

>>
>> The Bible can clear your confusion up.
>>
>> God created Jesus. (Col 1:15)
>
>“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.”
>(Col 1:15)

Also this one: -- Revised Standard
Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born
of all creation;

Look at the context. They are things created, of which Jesus was the
first.

>
>I too, as is every human, the image of the invisible God. Jesus was the first
>who was risen from the Grave as a fully redeemed man, not a spirit, but had
>flesh and bone as He showed and told the disciples. He is the Firstborn of
>many.

Sorry, but the Bible disagrees with you. The Bible says he was raised
as a spirit being: 1 Pet 3:18b,

"He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit."

Spirits in their natural form are invisible. Jesus had to materialize
a body in order to be seen by men. But it couldn't be the same one he
had before because that one was sacrificed for mankind.

>
>>
>> The Bible said he was God's Son. (Mr 1:1)
>> Jesus said the Father was greater than him. (John 14:28)
>> Even in Heaven. (1 Cor 11:3)
>
>All these things I addressed already in this thread, with you. Showing your
>errors.

When you go and misinterpret those Bible truths, they become not
understandable.

>>
>> > yet you seek to deny him before His Father as all mankind.
>>
>> How does it go? Oh yes, ....pants on fire.
>
>You deny him as God, when all mankind knows that he is, and many bend the
>knee to Him.
>Fact is, I will be posting today a refresh on Him as God, the God of King
>David.

Then you will be posting a falsehood.

>Pray that your bile does not back up in your throat choking you in the midst
>of you reading it.

False beliefs don't bother me, since I know the real truths.

>
>>
>> >
>> > You appear to have no problem spitting on Him and His shed blood for your
>> > sins, and you as head of your household seek to condemn your entire family
>> > to the same death as yourself. Yet you claim to love them. Thus as if tossing
>> > them into the Lake of Fire as if by your hands And that you will be required
>> > to deal with for eternity.
>>
>> If you weren't so serious, it would be humorous.
>>
>> The Bible says even the righteous are saved with DIFFICULTY. Thus
>> there is no 'once saved, always saved'. Jesus said you have to remain
>> faithful to the end. (Mt 24:13)
>
>Once saved, and then continuing on in Faith, walking in the spirit, we shall
>not die, but pass from this life to the next.

Yes, a person must remain faithful till the end.

- New King James
Matthew 24:13 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved."

Sincerely James
War. What help for
innocent victims?

11/2/23
Go to jw.org

[No one]

On Nov 2, 2023, James wrote
(in article<i1d7kidj5v2nsftb2...@4ax.com>):

“Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are
gods?” (Joh 10:34)

Our bodies are not redeemed, only our spirits are at this time. On
resurrection day the believer will rise with redeemed bodies. Then it is that
we will be just like Him. That is, those that have been Born Again.

>
>
> >
> > >
> > > Vs 21: "they may also be one in us". Is God then many more persons
> > > than just three? Or does "one" not mean bodily substance, but in
> > > agreement.
> >
> > That is what the Godhead is, and it also is what the relationship between
> > the ekklesia and God, as he described.
>
> So instead of a Trinity, God is a multiplicity? I don't think even the
> churches would buy that.

No he is a Godhead. That is what the Bible teaches which in turn IS the word
of God. What does it matter what some "churches" teach, some worship Mary,
which is forbidden. One either believes the word of God or they don't.
Pretenders are just that.

>
>
> > >
> > >
> > > Vs 22: "they may be one just as We are one:" Are all of Jesus'
> > > disciples a conglomerate of just one person? Or does it mean they all
> > > agree with each other.
> >
> > It means they are all of the same spirit.
>
> Then that must be what John 10:30 means.Again, you can't have it both
> ways.

It means "one in agreement".

>
> > PLUS, not just the people you
> > alluded to but to ALL born Again believers.
>
> > >
> > > >
> > > > “If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though
> > > > ye
> > > > believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the
> > > > Father is in me, and I in him.” (Joh 10:37-38)
> > >
> > > See above what John means by that statement. It has NOTHING to do with
> > > that 4th century Trinity.
> >
> > And you know full well that I do not subscribe to that doctrine, and you
> > just again broke your promise to me of using that statement as if I did.
>
> Some time ago my computer crashed. I lost all my notes. But I have
> recorded it again. Also, what Bible translation do you use?

I use several.

>
> > >
> > > > The Jews fully believed that he said he was God, and for that reason they
> > > > desired to stone him.
> > >
> > > The Jews believed all kinds of things. That is why Jesus called them
> > > offspring of vipers, and that they were WICKED. (Mt 3:7) If they are
> > > your source of proof you have grossly weak proof.
> >
> > That is your opinion. Especially since you just accused all Jews of all
> > times, thus rendering the OT erroneous.
>
> Please explain. I don't understand you.

You were to one to claim that ALL jews were wicked. That would appear to
include King David, all the prophets, all from Moses on Down. Your words, not
mine.

>
>
> > Yet you claimed to base your beliefs
> > on it and its Godly men.
>
> I not only claim it, but I actually DO base all my beliefs on the Holy
> Bible. Almost all Bible translations get across the basic truths. So I
> use them all at times. (after verifying they are correct)

Yet you do not, which I have shown you time and time again. Even in my last
post to you in another thread posted a little earlier today.

>
>
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Who knows better, you, of the hateful Jews of that day?
> > >
> > > I know more of what the Bible teaches than those WICKED "hateful
> > > Jews".
> >
> > Nope, you do not. You have shown us that by your words and doctrines.
>
> Then we have a difference of opinion. Even you should know more than
> the Jews of Jesus' day. For example, there has been over 2000 years of
> Bible research.

No, we do not have a difference of opinion. I believe according to what God
Has shown me, and know deep in my heart the truth of the matter as God has
shown himself faithful to me, one individual out of the masses of others he
has also shown. And with those we are of one mind.

>
>
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > That is of the spirit of the Antichrist, pure and simple, it is a far
> > > > > > different Gospel that Paul taught and so it is accursed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have been hammering on you about that for months, and you wander all
> > > > > > around, if full deceit.
> > > > >
> > > > > It is EXACTLY the same 'gospel' that the apostle Paul speaks. And Paul
> > > > > knew that Jesus was not God.
> > > >
> > > > Romans three says he is, you should read it sometime.
> > > >
> > > > “Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith,
> > > > and
> > > > uncircumcision through faith.” (Rom 3:30)
> > > >
> > > > If he is only man, then how can you have faith in Him, Jesus?
> > >
> > > The Bible says Jesus was God's Son, and to have faith in him. That's
> > > good enough for me.
> >
> > Yet you do not. You have no Faith in Jesus as God. Your word play gives you
> > and every deceiving spirit of the JW away as liars.
>
> But just think about it, if what we say is true. You and the churches
> are worshipping a creation of God. (Col 1:15) God demands exclusive
> worship:
>
> -- New King James
> Exodus 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before Me.

That was speaking of YahWeh AKA Jesus

Yet you teach them? Like you claim that Jesus is "a God"? As well as others
with extra words in them that change the original meanings of God.

>
> >
> > This is why I can say that you lie, and lie a lot with the full intention of
> > deceiving others. Which you WILL be held accountable for if you do not
> > repent, and have all your sins washed away by the Blood of Jesus.
>
> We ALL need to repent of our sins.

Even satan would claim that with couched meanings.
You claim to use scriptures as if that made you righteous, yet you also admit
that satan often quotes scriptures.

>
>
> > >
> > >
> > > > Who
> > > > when he ascended up to Heaven His Glory was returned to Him by His Father,
> > >
> > > You just contradicted yourself. You are saying the God became a man,
> > > yet the Father God remained in Heaven? You are not making any sense.
> >
> > Because you are blinded and deafend by the evil one.
>
> We are told to REASON on the Scriptures.

Yet you cannot accept the words of others?

Reasoning with the carnal mind is not understanding God, nor his words.

>
>
> > >
> > > The Bible can clear your confusion up.
> > >
> > > God created Jesus. (Col 1:15)
> >
> > “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.”
> > (Col 1:15)

Which as I showed you below does not mean created, nor anything similar. Yet
you have to jump in here before my comments trying to deceive others.

>
> Also this one: -- Revised Standard
> Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born
> of all creation;
>
> Look at the context. They are things created, of which Jesus was the
> first.

Jesus WAS the creator. in this messianic title, firstborn of all creation may
be interpreted as "existing before all creation" or "existing superior to all
creation

>
>
> >
> > I too, as is every human, the image of the invisible God. Jesus was the
> > first
> > who was risen from the Grave as a fully redeemed man, not a spirit, but had
> > flesh and bone as He showed and told the disciples. He is the Firstborn of
> > many.
>
> Sorry, but the Bible disagrees with you. The Bible says he was raised
> as a spirit being: 1 Pet 3:18b,
>
> "He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit."

Yet more deception from you, for it says, in whole, “For Christ also hath
once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to
God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:” (1Pe
3:18)

Which means, made alive by the Spirit. Since it was God, the Heavenly Father,
who raised him from the dead.

That was more of your false doctrine, and to put the nail in the coffin of
that corrupt teaching is this,
Luk 24:36-43

36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and
saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a
spirit.

38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in
your hearts?

39Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a
spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them,
Have ye here any meat?

42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.

43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

> Spirits in their natural form are invisible. Jesus had to materialize a body
> in order to be seen by men. But it couldn't be the same one he had before
> because that one was sacrificed for mankind.

Spirits do not eat solid food. The scripture above, shows by example and the
words of Jesus that you willingly told another lie. Why do I say that?
Because I have shown you those scriptures many times before In response to
your false statements.

>
> >
> > >
> > > The Bible said he was God's Son. (Mr 1:1)
> > > Jesus said the Father was greater than him. (John 14:28)
> > > Even in Heaven. (1 Cor 11:3)
> >
> > All these things I addressed already in this thread, with you. Showing your
> > errors.
>
> When you go and misinterpret those Bible truths, they become not
> understandable.

You have not shown then to be false, you cannot understand what you do not
see, and Jesus said that of all who are not believers, and one with him.

>
>
> > >
> > > > yet you seek to deny him before His Father as all mankind.
> > >
> > > How does it go? Oh yes, ....pants on fire.
> >
> > You deny him as God, when all mankind knows that he is, and many bend the
> > knee to Him.
> > Fact is, I will be posting today a refresh on Him as God, the God of King
> > David.
>
> Then you will be posting a falsehood.

Nope, that is a premature lie.

>
>
> > Pray that your bile does not back up in your throat choking you in the midst
> > of you reading it.
>
> False beliefs don't bother me, since I know the real truths.

You have proven many times that you are clueless and without God.

>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > You appear to have no problem spitting on Him and His shed blood for your
> > > > sins, and you as head of your household seek to condemn your entire family
> > > > to the same death as yourself. Yet you claim to love them. Thus as if
> > > > tossing
> > > > them into the Lake of Fire as if by your hands And that you will be
> > > > required
> > > > to deal with for eternity.
> > >
> > > If you weren't so serious, it would be humorous.
> > >
> > > The Bible says even the righteous are saved with DIFFICULTY. Thus
> > > there is no 'once saved, always saved'. Jesus said you have to remain
> > > faithful to the end. (Mt 24:13)
> >
> > Once saved, and then continuing on in Faith, walking in the spirit, we shall
> > not die, but pass from this life to the next.
>
> Yes, a person must remain faithful till the end.
>
> - New King James
> Matthew 24:13 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved."

You need to read from v1 to that verse to put it in context. Since you will
soon die, and the end is at least 1007 years away.

>
>
> Sincerely James

[James]

And your point?

>
>Our bodies are not redeemed, only our spirits are at this time. On
>resurrection day the believer will rise with redeemed bodies.

What about the unbeliever, such as the ancient Aztecs and modern day
atheists, etc?

According to the Bible, they will rise from their graves also:

- New American Standard
Acts 24:15 having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves,
that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and
the wicked.

"AND THE WICKED". So don't cross them out of the picture yet. My God
is NOT a hellfire god, but a God of mercy and forgiveness. So even the
wicked will get another chance.

Then it is that
>we will be just like Him. That is, those that have been Born Again.

Well "born again" is a whole other subject, but let's just say for now
that they are a limited number. (Rev 14:1; 7:4)

>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > >
>> > > Vs 21: "they may also be one in us". Is God then many more persons
>> > > than just three? Or does "one" not mean bodily substance, but in
>> > > agreement.
>> >
>> > That is what the Godhead is, and it also is what the relationship between
>> > the ekklesia and God, as he described.
>>
>> So instead of a Trinity, God is a multiplicity? I don't think even the
>> churches would buy that.
>
>No he is a Godhead. That is what the Bible teaches which in turn IS the word
>of God. What does it matter what some "churches" teach, some worship Mary,
>which is forbidden. One either believes the word of God or they don't.
>Pretenders are just that.

True about the churches. But, are you sure "Godhead" is the correct
translation there?

According to Strong's Concordance the Greek word used there is
"theiotes" which means "divinity", not Godhead.

>
>>
>>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Vs 22: "they may be one just as We are one:" Are all of Jesus'
>> > > disciples a conglomerate of just one person? Or does it mean they all
>> > > agree with each other.
>> >
>> > It means they are all of the same spirit.
>>
>> Then that must be what John 10:30 means.Again, you can't have it both
>> ways.
>
>It means "one in agreement".

Yes correct, not one in substance, like a Trinity.

>>
>> > PLUS, not just the people you
>> > alluded to but to ALL born Again believers.
>>
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > > “If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though
>> > > > ye
>> > > > believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the
>> > > > Father is in me, and I in him.” (Joh 10:37-38)
>> > >
>> > > See above what John means by that statement. It has NOTHING to do with
>> > > that 4th century Trinity.
>> >
>> > And you know full well that I do not subscribe to that doctrine, and you
>> > just again broke your promise to me of using that statement as if I did.
>>
>> Some time ago my computer crashed. I lost all my notes. But I have
>> recorded it again. Also, what Bible translation do you use?
>
>I use several.

Same here. But do you have a favorite, and why?

>>
>> > >
>> > > > The Jews fully believed that he said he was God, and for that reason they
>> > > > desired to stone him.
>> > >
>> > > The Jews believed all kinds of things. That is why Jesus called them
>> > > offspring of vipers, and that they were WICKED. (Mt 3:7) If they are
>> > > your source of proof you have grossly weak proof.
>> >
>> > That is your opinion. Especially since you just accused all Jews of all
>> > times, thus rendering the OT erroneous.
>>
>> Please explain. I don't understand you.
>
>You were to one to claim that ALL jews were wicked. That would appear to
>include King David, all the prophets, all from Moses on Down. Your words, not
>mine.

Sorry if you interpreted it that way. All Jews were not wicked. Look
at Jesus and his apostles, etc. And many of Jesus' Jewish followers.
Perhaps you misinterpreted my saying that God and Jesus rejected the
Jews as their chosen people.

>>
>>
>> > Yet you claimed to base your beliefs
>> > on it and its Godly men.
>>
>> I not only claim it, but I actually DO base all my beliefs on the Holy
>> Bible. Almost all Bible translations get across the basic truths. So I
>> use them all at times. (after verifying they are correct)
>
>Yet you do not, which I have shown you time and time again. Even in my last
>post to you in another thread posted a little earlier today.

Well, post it here again if you want me to comment on it.

>>
>>
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Who knows better, you, of the hateful Jews of that day?
>> > >
>> > > I know more of what the Bible teaches than those WICKED "hateful
>> > > Jews".
>> >
>> > Nope, you do not. You have shown us that by your words and doctrines.
>>
>> Then we have a difference of opinion. Even you should know more than
>> the Jews of Jesus' day. For example, there has been over 2000 years of
>> Bible research.
>
>No, we do not have a difference of opinion. I believe according to what God
>Has shown me, and know deep in my heart the truth of the matter as God has
>shown himself faithful to me, one individual out of the masses of others he
>has also shown. And with those we are of one mind.

Yet the Bible says to TEST the spirit, to see if that knowledge is
true or not. Recall, Satan and his demons appear at times as angels of
righteousness. So be real sure that what you believe has passed those
tests.

From my vantage point (I won't sugar-coat it) you have fallen for
Satan's lies. The way to prove him a liar is to research, research,
research.

>>
>>
>> > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > That is of the spirit of the Antichrist, pure and simple, it is a far
>> > > > > > different Gospel that Paul taught and so it is accursed.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > I have been hammering on you about that for months, and you wander all
>> > > > > > around, if full deceit.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > It is EXACTLY the same 'gospel' that the apostle Paul speaks. And Paul
>> > > > > knew that Jesus was not God.
>> > > >
>> > > > Romans three says he is, you should read it sometime.
>> > > >
>> > > > “Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith,
>> > > > and
>> > > > uncircumcision through faith.” (Rom 3:30)
>> > > >
>> > > > If he is only man, then how can you have faith in Him, Jesus?
>> > >
>> > > The Bible says Jesus was God's Son, and to have faith in him. That's
>> > > good enough for me.
>> >
>> > Yet you do not. You have no Faith in Jesus as God. Your word play gives you
>> > and every deceiving spirit of the JW away as liars.
>>
>> But just think about it, if what we say is true. You and the churches
>> are worshipping a creation of God. (Col 1:15) God demands exclusive
>> worship:
>>
>> -- New King James
>> Exodus 20:3 "You shall have no other gods before Me.
>
>That was speaking of YahWeh AKA Jesus

God is one Jehovah, not the 4th century three:

-- American Standard
Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah:

Well, technically "a god". All Bible translations include extra words
in them for clarity, such as "the" and "a", etc., that usually don't
change the meaning of the Scripture.

>>
>> >
>> > This is why I can say that you lie, and lie a lot with the full intention of
>> > deceiving others. Which you WILL be held accountable for if you do not
>> > repent, and have all your sins washed away by the Blood of Jesus.
>>
>> We ALL need to repent of our sins.
>
>Even satan would claim that with couched meanings.
>You claim to use scriptures as if that made you righteous, yet you also admit
>that satan often quotes scriptures.

And your point?

>
>>
>>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > Who
>> > > > when he ascended up to Heaven His Glory was returned to Him by His Father,
>> > >
>> > > You just contradicted yourself. You are saying the God became a man,
>> > > yet the Father God remained in Heaven? You are not making any sense.
>> >
>> > Because you are blinded and deafend by the evil one.
>>
>> We are told to REASON on the Scriptures.
>
>Yet you cannot accept the words of others?

I sometimes do, if I believe that are true.

>
>Reasoning with the carnal mind is not understanding God, nor his words.

Tell that to the apostle Paul:

-- New King James
Acts 17:2 Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for
three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,

>>
>>
>> > >
>> > > The Bible can clear your confusion up.
>> > >
>> > > God created Jesus. (Col 1:15)
>> >
>> > “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.”
>> > (Col 1:15)
>
>Which as I showed you below does not mean created, nor anything similar. Yet
>you have to jump in here before my comments trying to deceive others.

Once and for all, examine the context.

--Col 1:15= " the firstborn of all creation;' (ASV)
--Col 1:16= "all thing created", "all things have been created through
him, and unto him; (ASV)

The theme here is THINGS CREATED.

>>
>> Also this one: -- Revised Standard
>> Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born
>> of all creation;
>>
>> Look at the context. They are things created, of which Jesus was the
>> first.
>
>Jesus WAS the creator. in this messianic title, firstborn of all creation may
>be interpreted as "existing before all creation" or "existing superior to all
>creation

Interpreted by Trinitarians, but not Bible believers. And by the way,
the Bible says that God created all things:

-- King James
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Yes, Jesus assisted God in some way, but God did the creating.

>>
>>
>> >
>> > I too, as is every human, the image of the invisible God. Jesus was the
>> > first
>> > who was risen from the Grave as a fully redeemed man, not a spirit, but had
>> > flesh and bone as He showed and told the disciples. He is the Firstborn of
>> > many.
>>
>> Sorry, but the Bible disagrees with you. The Bible says he was raised
>> as a spirit being: 1 Pet 3:18b,
>>
>> "He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit."
>
>Yet more deception from you, for it says, in whole, “For Christ also hath
>once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to
>God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:” (1Pe
>3:18)

That word "quickened" is shown by Strong's Concordance:

"Strong's Ref. # 2227

Romanized zoopoieo
Pronounced dzo-op-oy-eh'-o

from the same as GSN2226 and GSN4160; to (re-)vitalize (literally or
figuratively):"

Yes, Jesus was REVITALIZED by being raised as a spirit being.

>
>Which means, made alive by the Spirit. Since it was God, the Heavenly Father,
>who raised him from the dead.
>
>That was more of your false doctrine, and to put the nail in the coffin of
>that corrupt teaching is this,
>Luk 24:36-43
>
>36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and
>saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
>
>37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a
>spirit.
>
>38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in
>your hearts?
>
>39Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a
>spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
>
>40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
>
>41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them,
>Have ye here any meat?
>
>42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
>
>43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

Jesus materialized a body in order to be visible to humans. But it
could not look like the same body he had, because he sacrificed that
one for humanity.

>
>> Spirits in their natural form are invisible. Jesus had to materialize a body
>> in order to be seen by men. But it couldn't be the same one he had before
>> because that one was sacrificed for mankind.
>Spirits do not eat solid food. The scripture above, shows by example and the
>words of Jesus that you willingly told another lie. Why do I say that?
>Because I have shown you those scriptures many times before In response to
>your false statements.

And I have answered you using the Bible, but you seem to conveniently
forget those. Like the account with the newly resurrected Jesus
visiting Mary Magdalene in a garden. Do you remember the point of that
one?

>>
>> >
>> > >
>> > > The Bible said he was God's Son. (Mr 1:1)
>> > > Jesus said the Father was greater than him. (John 14:28)
>> > > Even in Heaven. (1 Cor 11:3)
>> >
>> > All these things I addressed already in this thread, with you. Showing your
>> > errors.
>>
>> When you go and misinterpret those Bible truths, they become not
>> understandable.
>
>You have not shown then to be false, you cannot understand what you do not
>see, and Jesus said that of all who are not believers, and one with him.
>>
>>
>> > >
>> > > > yet you seek to deny him before His Father as all mankind.
>> > >
>> > > How does it go? Oh yes, ....pants on fire.
>> >
>> > You deny him as God, when all mankind knows that he is, and many bend the
>> > knee to Him.
>> > Fact is, I will be posting today a refresh on Him as God, the God of King
>> > David.
>>
>> Then you will be posting a falsehood.
>
>Nope, that is a premature lie.
>>
>>
>> > Pray that your bile does not back up in your throat choking you in the midst
>> > of you reading it.
>>
>> False beliefs don't bother me, since I know the real truths.
>
>You have proven many times that you are clueless and without God.

On the contrary, you have been shown Bible truths, but reject them. I
just hope you some day can see through the Devil's schemes.

>>
>> >
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > > You appear to have no problem spitting on Him and His shed blood for your
>> > > > sins, and you as head of your household seek to condemn your entire family
>> > > > to the same death as yourself. Yet you claim to love them. Thus as if
>> > > > tossing
>> > > > them into the Lake of Fire as if by your hands And that you will be
>> > > > required
>> > > > to deal with for eternity.
>> > >
>> > > If you weren't so serious, it would be humorous.
>> > >
>> > > The Bible says even the righteous are saved with DIFFICULTY. Thus
>> > > there is no 'once saved, always saved'. Jesus said you have to remain
>> > > faithful to the end. (Mt 24:13)
>> >
>> > Once saved, and then continuing on in Faith, walking in the spirit, we shall
>> > not die, but pass from this life to the next.
>>
>> Yes, a person must remain faithful till the end.
>>
>> - New King James
>> Matthew 24:13 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved."
>
>You need to read from v1 to that verse to put it in context. Since you will
>soon die, and the end is at least 1007 years away.

No one knows when the end comes. Not even Jesus did when he was on
this earth:

-- Revised Standard
Matthew 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the
angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.

If Jesus is God, please explain that one to me.

Sincerely James
Wicked politicians
gone forever?
11/9/23

[No one]

On Nov 9, 2023, James wrote
(in article<0j0qkihnim48j7nk6...@4ax.com>):

It was an answer to your question.

>
>
> >
> > Our bodies are not redeemed, only our spirits are at this time. On
> > resurrection day the believer will rise with redeemed bodies.
>
> What about the unbeliever, such as the ancient Aztecs and modern day
> atheists, etc?
>
> According to the Bible, they will rise from their graves also:

Yes, and to hell as well.

>
>
> - New American Standard
> Acts 24:15 having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves,
> that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and
> the wicked.
>
> "AND THE WICKED". So don't cross them out of the picture yet. My God
> is NOT a hellfire god, but a God of mercy and forgiveness. So even the
> wicked will get another chance.

Your god is a fictional god as you do not believe all his word, and you claim
to follow a "man" and not any god.

>
>
> Then it is that
> > we will be just like Him. That is, those that have been Born Again.
>
> Well "born again" is a whole other subject, but let's just say for now
> that they are a limited number. (Rev 14:1; 7:4)

AYUP! They are the only ones who go to heaven. All the rest go to the Lake of
Fire and Brimstone.

>
>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Vs 21: "they may also be one in us". Is God then many more persons
> > > > > than just three? Or does "one" not mean bodily substance, but in
> > > > > agreement.
> > > >
> > > > That is what the Godhead is, and it also is what the relationship between
> > > > the ekklesia and God, as he described.
> > >
> > > So instead of a Trinity, God is a multiplicity? I don't think even the
> > > churches would buy that.
> >
> > No he is a Godhead. That is what the Bible teaches which in turn IS the word
> > of God. What does it matter what some "churches" teach, some worship Mary,
> > which is forbidden. One either believes the word of God or they don't.
> > Pretenders are just that.
>
> True about the churches. But, are you sure "Godhead" is the correct
> translation there?

Where? I didn't mention a verse that used the word.

>
>
> According to Strong's Concordance the Greek word used there is
> "theiotes" which means "divinity", not Godhead.
>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Vs 22: "they may be one just as We are one:" Are all of Jesus'
> > > > > disciples a conglomerate of just one person? Or does it mean they all
> > > > > agree with each other.
> > > >
> > > > It means they are all of the same spirit.
> > >
> > > Then that must be what John 10:30 means.Again, you can't have it both
> > > ways.
> >
> > It means "one in agreement".
>
> Yes correct, not one in substance, like a Trinity.

Yet you question the Godhead? But state that I am correct.

>
>
> > >
> > > > PLUS, not just the people you
> > > > alluded to but to ALL born Again believers.
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > “If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do,
> > > > > > though
> > > > > > ye
> > > > > > believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > Father is in me, and I in him.” (Joh 10:37-38)
> > > > >
> > > > > See above what John means by that statement. It has NOTHING to do with
> > > > > that 4th century Trinity.
> > > >
> > > > And you know full well that I do not subscribe to that doctrine, and you
> > > > just again broke your promise to me of using that statement as if I did.
> > >
> > > Some time ago my computer crashed. I lost all my notes. But I have
> > > recorded it again. Also, what Bible translation do you use?
> >
> > I use several.
>
> Same here. But do you have a favorite, and why?

What does it matter, it is God that reveals His truth, not the truth of an
organization.

>
>
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > The Jews fully believed that he said he was God, and for that reason
> > > > > > they
> > > > > > desired to stone him.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Jews believed all kinds of things. That is why Jesus called them
> > > > > offspring of vipers, and that they were WICKED. (Mt 3:7) If they are
> > > > > your source of proof you have grossly weak proof.
> > > >
> > > > That is your opinion. Especially since you just accused all Jews of all
> > > > times, thus rendering the OT erroneous.
> > >
> > > Please explain. I don't understand you.
> >
> > You were to one to claim that ALL jews were wicked. That would appear to
> > include King David, all the prophets, all from Moses on Down. Your words,
> > not
> > mine.
>
> Sorry if you interpreted it that way. All Jews were not wicked. Look
> at Jesus and his apostles, etc. And many of Jesus' Jewish followers.
> Perhaps you misinterpreted my saying that God and Jesus rejected the
> Jews as their chosen people.

Dude, those were your exact words, if you didn't mean it, then don't say it.

>
>
> > >
> > >
> > > > Yet you claimed to base your beliefs
> > > > on it and its Godly men.
> > >
> > > I not only claim it, but I actually DO base all my beliefs on the Holy
> > > Bible. Almost all Bible translations get across the basic truths. So I
> > > use them all at times. (after verifying they are correct)
> >
> > Yet you do not, which I have shown you time and time again. Even in my last
> > post to you in another thread posted a little earlier today.
>
> Well, post it here again if you want me to comment on it.

Like you ignored it before? No thanks.

>
>
> > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Who knows better, you, of the hateful Jews of that day?
> > > > >
> > > > > I know more of what the Bible teaches than those WICKED "hateful
> > > > > Jews".
> > > >
> > > > Nope, you do not. You have shown us that by your words and doctrines.
> > >
> > > Then we have a difference of opinion. Even you should know more than
> > > the Jews of Jesus' day. For example, there has been over 2000 years of
> > > Bible research.
> >
> > No, we do not have a difference of opinion. I believe according to what God
> > Has shown me, and know deep in my heart the truth of the matter as God has
> > shown himself faithful to me, one individual out of the masses of others he
> > has also shown. And with those we are of one mind.
>
> Yet the Bible says to TEST the spirit, to see if that knowledge is
> true or not. Recall, Satan and his demons appear at times as angels of
> righteousness. So be real sure that what you believe has passed those
> tests.

I know that far better than do you, and I practice it all the time.

>
> From my vantage point (I won't sugar-coat it) you have fallen for
> Satan's lies. The way to prove him a liar is to research, research,
> research.

I know the voice of the Lord. I also know when satan or his Angels speak.

Why don't you? Because you have rejected Jesus.

Hear. Note: Shema Yisrael, Yehowah, Elohainoo, Yehowah aichod, "Hear, Israel,
Jehovah, our God, is one Jehovah." On this passage the Jews lay great stress;
and it is one of the four passages which they write on their phylacteries. On
the wordElohim, Simeon Ben Joachi says; "Come and see the mystery of the word
Elohim: there are three degrees, and each degree is by itself alone, and yet
they are all one, and joined together in one, and are not divided from each
other" (Zohar. Lev. Sect. 16, Col 116).

Wrong, there is no "technical" translation, and if you really did not think
it was important to your understanding they there would be no reason to
include it in an attempt to deceive others.

After all, Jesus is Jehovah.

>
>
> > >
> > > >
> > > > This is why I can say that you lie, and lie a lot with the full intention
> > > > of
> > > > deceiving others. Which you WILL be held accountable for if you do not
> > > > repent, and have all your sins washed away by the Blood of Jesus.
> > >
> > > We ALL need to repent of our sins.
> >
> > Even satan would claim that with couched meanings.
> > You claim to use scriptures as if that made you righteous, yet you also
> > admit that satan often quotes scriptures.
>
> And your point?

To clarify your point that you believe Satan is as correct as you are. That
you are both equally righteous.

>
>
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Who
> > > > > > when he ascended up to Heaven His Glory was returned to Him by His
> > > > > > Father,
> > > > >
> > > > > You just contradicted yourself. You are saying the God became a man,
> > > > > yet the Father God remained in Heaven? You are not making any sense.
> > > >
> > > > Because you are blinded and deafend by the evil one.
> > >
> > > We are told to REASON on the Scriptures.
> >
> > Yet you cannot accept the words of others?
>
> I sometimes do, if I believe that are true.

Look at all the times the JW spoon fed you doctrine that you took hook line
and sinker, and later they modified it, or changed it entirely even opposing
what they first taught, and you, like an abused spouse went right along with
them anyhow.

Not a wise thing to do, eh?

>
>
> >
> > Reasoning with the carnal mind is not understanding God, nor his words.
>
> Tell that to the apostle Paul:
>
> -- New King James
> Acts 17:2 Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for
> three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,

Those people were the ones who were under the old covenant. Not Pagans.

>
>
> > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The Bible can clear your confusion up.
> > > > >
> > > > > God created Jesus. (Col 1:15)
> > > >
> > > > “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all
> > > > creation.”
> > > > (Col 1:15)
> >
> > Which as I showed you below does not mean created, nor anything similar. Yet
> > you have to jump in here before my comments trying to deceive others.
>
> Once and for all, examine the context.
>
> --Col 1:15= " the firstborn of all creation;' (ASV)
> --Col 1:16= "all thing created", "all things have been created through
> him, and unto him; (ASV)
>
> The theme here is THINGS CREATED.

How wrong you are.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every
creature:

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are
in earth, visible and invisible, whetherthey be thrones, or dominions, or
principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

There it is in plain English. Creature, things created whether in heaven or
elsewhere, and he was before all things.

Get a grip on your ignorance.

>
>
> > >
> > > Also this one: -- Revised Standard
> > > Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born
> > > of all creation;
> > >
> > > Look at the context. They are things created, of which Jesus was the
> > > first.
> >
> > Jesus WAS the creator. in this messianic title, firstborn of all creation
> > may
> > be interpreted as "existing before all creation" or "existing superior to
> > all
> > creation
>
> Interpreted by Trinitarians, but not Bible believers. And by the way,
> the Bible says that God created all things:

Yes, And I just wrote about that from Colossians.

>
>
> -- King James
> Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
>
> Yes, Jesus assisted God in some way, but God did the creating.

You know neither. Nor do you have understanding.

Job 11:12

12 But an empty man will get understanding, when a wild ass's colt is born a
man.

>
>
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I too, as is every human, the image of the invisible God. Jesus was the
> > > > first
> > > > who was risen from the Grave as a fully redeemed man, not a spirit, but
> > > > had
> > > > flesh and bone as He showed and told the disciples. He is the Firstborn of
> > > > many.
> > >
> > > Sorry, but the Bible disagrees with you. The Bible says he was raised
> > > as a spirit being: 1 Pet 3:18b,
> > >
> > > "He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit."
> >
> > Yet more deception from you, for it says, in whole, “For Christ also hath
> > once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to
> > God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:” (1Pe
> > 3:18)
>
> That word "quickened" is shown by Strong's Concordance:
>
> "Strong's Ref. # 2227
>
> Romanized zoopoieo
> Pronounced dzo-op-oy-eh'-o
>
> from the same as GSN2226 and GSN4160; to (re-)vitalize (literally or
> figuratively):"
>
> Yes, Jesus was REVITALIZED by being raised as a spirit being.

WOW! Three for three, wrong, incorrect and without knowledge. Nowhere does it
say he was resurrected a spirit being.

>
>
> >
> > Which means, made alive by the Spirit. Since it was God, the Heavenly
> > Father,
> > who raised him from the dead.
> >
> > That was more of your false doctrine, and to put the nail in the coffin of
> > that corrupt teaching is this,
> > Luk 24:36-43
> >
> > 36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and
> > saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
> >
> > 37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a
> > spirit.
> >
> > 38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in
> > your hearts?
> >
> > 39Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for
> > a
> > spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
> >
> > 40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
> >
> > 41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them,
> > Have ye here any meat?
> >
> > 42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
> >
> > 43 And he took it, and did eat before them.
>
> Jesus materialized a body in order to be visible to humans. But it
> could not look like the same body he had, because he sacrificed that
> one for humanity.

Whoopsie! Now it is 4 for 4, wrong. His body was resurrected. Which is why it
was not to be found in the grave, the only thing there was the empty shell in
which he was wrapped.

>
>
> >
> > > Spirits in their natural form are invisible. Jesus had to materialize a
> > > body
> > > in order to be seen by men. But it couldn't be the same one he had before
> > > because that one was sacrificed for mankind.
> > Spirits do not eat solid food. The scripture above, shows by example and the
> > words of Jesus that you willingly told another lie. Why do I say that?
> > Because I have shown you those scriptures many times before In response to
> > your false statements.
>
> And I have answered you using the Bible, but you seem to conveniently
> forget those. Like the account with the newly resurrected Jesus
> visiting Mary Magdalene in a garden. Do you remember the point of that
> one?

No, you did not answer from the Bible. Jesus told her to tell the disciples
that he was alive, and he was seen then by over 500 men who were witness to
his walking on earth.

Claim your false doctrines all you want, I see right through your schemes and
false doctrines, which you also call your opinions.

>
>
> > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You appear to have no problem spitting on Him and His shed blood for
> > > > > > your
> > > > > > sins, and you as head of your household seek to condemn your entire
> > > > > > family
> > > > > > to the same death as yourself. Yet you claim to love them. Thus as if
> > > > > > tossing
> > > > > > them into the Lake of Fire as if by your hands And that you will be
> > > > > > required
> > > > > > to deal with for eternity.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you weren't so serious, it would be humorous.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Bible says even the righteous are saved with DIFFICULTY. Thus
> > > > > there is no 'once saved, always saved'. Jesus said you have to remain
> > > > > faithful to the end. (Mt 24:13)
> > > >
> > > > Once saved, and then continuing on in Faith, walking in the spirit, we
> > > > shall
> > > > not die, but pass from this life to the next.
> > >
> > > Yes, a person must remain faithful till the end.
> > >
> > > - New King James
> > > Matthew 24:13 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved."
> >
> > You need to read from v1 to that verse to put it in context. Since you will
> > soon die, and the end is at least 1007 years away.
>
> No one knows when the end comes. Not even Jesus did when he was on
> this earth:

False. Mistake #5. When Jesus returns in the sky for the believers, his feet
do not touch the earth. That day and hour he knows not. But he knows full
well that 1007 years after that day will be the end of this earth. And
immediately after he pulls the believers out of this earth is when the
144,000 real Jehovahs Witnesses will be anointed to preach the Gospel.

[James]

What question?

>>
>>
>> >
>> > Our bodies are not redeemed, only our spirits are at this time. On
>> > resurrection day the believer will rise with redeemed bodies.
>>
>> What about the unbeliever, such as the ancient Aztecs and modern day
>> atheists, etc?
>>
>> According to the Bible, they will rise from their graves also:
>
>Yes, and to hell as well.

That's just what I said, because "hell" IS the "grave".

>>
>>
>> - New American Standard
>> Acts 24:15 having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves,
>> that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and
>> the wicked.
>>
>> "AND THE WICKED". So don't cross them out of the picture yet. My God
>> is NOT a hellfire god, but a God of mercy and forgiveness. So even the
>> wicked will get another chance.
>
>Your god is a fictional god as you do not believe all his word, and you claim
>to follow a "man" and not any god.

Where do you get that refuse from? Let me make the appropriate
corrections.

My God is Jehovah of the Bible. And since ALL Scripture is inspired of
God (2 Tim 3:16), I believe ALL the Bible. I follow Jehovah God and
His Son Jesus Christ, who is "a god".

>>
>>
>> Then it is that
>> > we will be just like Him. That is, those that have been Born Again.
>>
>> Well "born again" is a whole other subject, but let's just say for now
>> that they are a limited number. (Rev 14:1; 7:4)
>
>AYUP! They are the only ones who go to heaven. All the rest go to the Lake of
>Fire and Brimstone.

Nonsense. You do not know the infinite mercies of God. Your god is a
sadistic 3 headed monster that inflicts unbearable pain forever. He is
a criminal of the worst kind, and reflects the Devil's sick
personality. Thank God I have gotten away from that sorry excuse for a
god.

And by the way, there is no "Lake of Fire and Brimstone" in the Bible.
It is just referred to as the "lake of fire".

>>
>>
>> >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Vs 21: "they may also be one in us". Is God then many more persons
>> > > > > than just three? Or does "one" not mean bodily substance, but in
>> > > > > agreement.
>> > > >
>> > > > That is what the Godhead is, and it also is what the relationship between
>> > > > the ekklesia and God, as he described.
>> > >
>> > > So instead of a Trinity, God is a multiplicity? I don't think even the
>> > > churches would buy that.
>> >
>> > No he is a Godhead. That is what the Bible teaches which in turn IS the word
>> > of God. What does it matter what some "churches" teach, some worship Mary,
>> > which is forbidden. One either believes the word of God or they don't.
>> > Pretenders are just that.
>>
>> True about the churches. But, are you sure "Godhead" is the correct
>> translation there?
>
>Where? I didn't mention a verse that used the word.

You referred to a verse in the Bible when you said, "No he is a

Godhead. That is what the Bible teaches which in turn IS the word
of God."

>>
>>

>> According to Strong's Concordance the Greek word used there is
>> "theiotes" which means "divinity", not Godhead.
>>
>> >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Vs 22: "they may be one just as We are one:" Are all of Jesus'
>> > > > > disciples a conglomerate of just one person? Or does it mean they all
>> > > > > agree with each other.
>> > > >
>> > > > It means they are all of the same spirit.
>> > >
>> > > Then that must be what John 10:30 means.Again, you can't have it both
>> > > ways.
>> >
>> > It means "one in agreement".
>>
>> Yes correct, not one in substance, like a Trinity.
>
>Yet you question the Godhead? But state that I am correct.

Yes, I totally deny the 4th century Godhead. (Trinity)

And you were correct when you said John 10:30 doesn't mean they were
one body, but means they are in total agreement.

>>
>>
>> > >
>> > > > PLUS, not just the people you
>> > > > alluded to but to ALL born Again believers.
>> > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > “If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do,
>> > > > > > though
>> > > > > > ye
>> > > > > > believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that
>> > > > > > the
>> > > > > > Father is in me, and I in him.” (Joh 10:37-38)
>> > > > >
>> > > > > See above what John means by that statement. It has NOTHING to do with
>> > > > > that 4th century Trinity.
>> > > >
>> > > > And you know full well that I do not subscribe to that doctrine, and you
>> > > > just again broke your promise to me of using that statement as if I did.
>> > >
>> > > Some time ago my computer crashed. I lost all my notes. But I have
>> > > recorded it again. Also, what Bible translation do you use?
>> >
>> > I use several.
>>
>> Same here. But do you have a favorite, and why?
>
>What does it matter, it is God that reveals His truth, not the truth of an
>organization.

Not all translations carry the same accuracy. Most have their good
points and bad points.

>
>>
>>
>> > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > The Jews fully believed that he said he was God, and for that reason
>> > > > > > they
>> > > > > > desired to stone him.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > The Jews believed all kinds of things. That is why Jesus called them
>> > > > > offspring of vipers, and that they were WICKED. (Mt 3:7) If they are
>> > > > > your source of proof you have grossly weak proof.
>> > > >
>> > > > That is your opinion. Especially since you just accused all Jews of all
>> > > > times, thus rendering the OT erroneous.
>> > >
>> > > Please explain. I don't understand you.
>> >
>> > You were to one to claim that ALL jews were wicked. That would appear to
>> > include King David, all the prophets, all from Moses on Down. Your words,
>> > not
>> > mine.
>>
>> Sorry if you interpreted it that way. All Jews were not wicked. Look
>> at Jesus and his apostles, etc. And many of Jesus' Jewish followers.
>> Perhaps you misinterpreted my saying that God and Jesus rejected the
>> Jews as their chosen people.
>
>Dude, those were your exact words, if you didn't mean it, then don't say it.

As far as I know I didn't. Please quote that segment.

>
>>
>>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > Yet you claimed to base your beliefs
>> > > > on it and its Godly men.
>> > >
>> > > I not only claim it, but I actually DO base all my beliefs on the Holy
>> > > Bible. Almost all Bible translations get across the basic truths. So I
>> > > use them all at times. (after verifying they are correct)
>> >
>> > Yet you do not, which I have shown you time and time again. Even in my last
>> > post to you in another thread posted a little earlier today.
>>
>> Well, post it here again if you want me to comment on it.
>
>Like you ignored it before? No thanks.

OK then skip it.

>
>>
>>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Who knows better, you, of the hateful Jews of that day?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I know more of what the Bible teaches than those WICKED "hateful
>> > > > > Jews".
>> > > >
>> > > > Nope, you do not. You have shown us that by your words and doctrines.
>> > >
>> > > Then we have a difference of opinion. Even you should know more than
>> > > the Jews of Jesus' day. For example, there has been over 2000 years of
>> > > Bible research.
>> >
>> > No, we do not have a difference of opinion. I believe according to what God
>> > Has shown me, and know deep in my heart the truth of the matter as God has
>> > shown himself faithful to me, one individual out of the masses of others he
>> > has also shown. And with those we are of one mind.
>>
>> Yet the Bible says to TEST the spirit, to see if that knowledge is
>> true or not. Recall, Satan and his demons appear at times as angels of
>> righteousness. So be real sure that what you believe has passed those
>> tests.
>
>I know that far better than do you, and I practice it all the time.

Oh really. You said earlier, that only the 144,000 go to Heaven. The

rest go to the Lake of Fire and Brimstone.

Then that leaves ZERO left on earth. So did Jesus lie here?

-- American Standard
Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

>>
>> From my vantage point (I won't sugar-coat it) you have fallen for
>> Satan's lies. The way to prove him a liar is to research, research,
>> research.
>
>I know the voice of the Lord. I also know when satan or his Angels speak.

According to your postings, he has pulled the wool over your eyes many
times.

>
>Why don't you? Because you have rejected Jesus.

Actually you have rejected the loving God of the Bible, and instead
supports a sadistic monster 3 headed god. Your god will be vanishing
soon. Count on it!

Being a Jew, he doesn't recognize the NT. Thus he misses out on the
apostle Paul's words:

-- Revised Standard
1 Corinthians 11:3 But I want you to understand that the head of
every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head
of Christ is God.

The Trinity says they are "co-equal". Paul obviously disagrees.

I guess you just can't understand.

>
>After all, Jesus is Jehovah.

And pigs can fly.

>
>>
>>
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > > This is why I can say that you lie, and lie a lot with the full intention
>> > > > of
>> > > > deceiving others. Which you WILL be held accountable for if you do not
>> > > > repent, and have all your sins washed away by the Blood of Jesus.
>> > >
>> > > We ALL need to repent of our sins.
>> >
>> > Even satan would claim that with couched meanings.
>> > You claim to use scriptures as if that made you righteous, yet you also
>> > admit that satan often quotes scriptures.
>>
>> And your point?
>
>To clarify your point that you believe Satan is as correct as you are. That
>you are both equally righteous.

You need to go back to school and take English class again. And learn
what "absurd" means.

>>
>>
>> >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > Who
>> > > > > > when he ascended up to Heaven His Glory was returned to Him by His
>> > > > > > Father,
>> > > > >
>> > > > > You just contradicted yourself. You are saying the God became a man,
>> > > > > yet the Father God remained in Heaven? You are not making any sense.
>> > > >
>> > > > Because you are blinded and deafend by the evil one.
>> > >
>> > > We are told to REASON on the Scriptures.
>> >
>> > Yet you cannot accept the words of others?
>>
>> I sometimes do, if I believe that are true.
>
>Look at all the times the JW spoon fed you doctrine that you took hook line
>and sinker, and later they modified it, or changed it entirely even opposing
>what they first taught, and you, like an abused spouse went right along with
>them anyhow.
>
>Not a wise thing to do, eh?

When the JW's introduce a new doctrine, they show the research that
proves the point. But this is how the true religion is supposed to
progress, unlike most of the churches that lay stagnant:

-- Revised Standard
Proverbs 4:18 But the path of the righteous is like the light of
dawn, which shines brighter and brighter until full day.

Yes, we are close to full day now.

>>
>>
>> >
>> > Reasoning with the carnal mind is not understanding God, nor his words.
>>
>> Tell that to the apostle Paul:
>>
>> -- New King James
>> Acts 17:2 Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for
>> three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
>
>Those people were the ones who were under the old covenant. Not Pagans.

You missed the point. you said above, "Reasoning with the carnal mind
is not understanding God, nor his words." Thus you would not reason on
the Scriptures. Yet the apostle Paul disagrees with you.

>>
>>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > The Bible can clear your confusion up.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > God created Jesus. (Col 1:15)
>> > > >
>> > > > “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all
>> > > > creation.”
>> > > > (Col 1:15)
>> >
>> > Which as I showed you below does not mean created, nor anything similar. Yet
>> > you have to jump in here before my comments trying to deceive others.
>>
>> Once and for all, examine the context.
>>
>> --Col 1:15= " the firstborn of all creation;' (ASV)
>> --Col 1:16= "all thing created", "all things have been created through
>> him, and unto him; (ASV)
>>
>> The theme here is THINGS CREATED.
>
>How wrong you are.
>
>Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every
>creature:

Yes, before every creature, Jesus was created.

>
>Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are
>in earth, visible and invisible, whetherthey be thrones, or dominions, or
>principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

You have an incorrect translation there, where it says "all things
were created by him". That contradicts Gen 1:1 that says GOD did all
the creating:

-- Revised Standard
Genesis 1:1 IN THE beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Your translation should read at Col 1:16:

-- New King James
Colossians 1:16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven
and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or
dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through
Him and for Him.

>
>Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Yes, God created Jesus, then through Jesus created everything else.

>
>There it is in plain English. Creature, things created whether in heaven or
>elsewhere, and he was before all things.
>
>Get a grip on your ignorance.

See above

>
>>
>>
>> > >
>> > > Also this one: -- Revised Standard
>> > > Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born
>> > > of all creation;
>> > >
>> > > Look at the context. They are things created, of which Jesus was the
>> > > first.
>> >
>> > Jesus WAS the creator. in this messianic title, firstborn of all creation
>> > may
>> > be interpreted as "existing before all creation" or "existing superior to
>> > all
>> > creation
>>
>> Interpreted by Trinitarians, but not Bible believers. And by the way,
>> the Bible says that God created all things:
>
>Yes, And I just wrote about that from Colossians.
>>
>>
>> -- King James
>> Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
>>
>> Yes, Jesus assisted God in some way, but God did the creating.
>
>You know neither. Nor do you have understanding.

If you take off those dark sunglasses, you could see better.

Notice:

-- Revised Standard
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the
righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being
put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit;

This shows the contrast between a fleshly being and
a spirit being.

Now don't get your feathers in a ruffle. I am aware that other
translations may show it different. For example, the KJV. It says,
"but quickened by the spirit:"

So the best way to verify it is to see how the actual Greek words
read.

"...having been put to death indeed to flesh having been made alive
but to spirit... (Kingdom Interlinear Translation)

The Revised Standard version had it right.

Before you start condemning it because it is a JW publication, PLEASE
CHECK WITH ANOTHER INTERLINEAR. For example, the Biblehub has one:
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_peter/3-18.htm
Check it out.

Whoopsie do. No bodily resurrection. See the Greek Interlinears above.
And the Bible says Jesus CLEARLY gave up his physical body as the
ransom:

-- King James
Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the
offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

If Jesus took back his body in the resurrection, that would nullify
the ransom. Thank God he didn't.

>>
>>
>> >
>> > > Spirits in their natural form are invisible. Jesus had to materialize a
>> > > body
>> > > in order to be seen by men. But it couldn't be the same one he had before
>> > > because that one was sacrificed for mankind.
>> > Spirits do not eat solid food. The scripture above, shows by example and the
>> > words of Jesus that you willingly told another lie. Why do I say that?
>> > Because I have shown you those scriptures many times before In response to
>> > your false statements.
>>
>> And I have answered you using the Bible, but you seem to conveniently
>> forget those. Like the account with the newly resurrected Jesus
>> visiting Mary Magdalene in a garden. Do you remember the point of that
>> one?
>
>No, you did not answer from the Bible. Jesus told her to tell the disciples
>that he was alive, and he was seen then by over 500 men who were witness to
>his walking on earth.

Back up a little. When Mary Magdalene saw Jesus, she thought he was
the GARDENER. It wasn't until Jesus spoke to her, that she recognized
him as Jesus. Thus Jesus materialized a body that didn't look like his
original one. All the Scriptures bear this out.

Negatrons. I never call Bible Scriptures my opinions. You know better
than that.

Prove what you just said!.

>>
>>
>> -- Revised Standard
>> Matthew 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the
>> angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.
>>
>> If Jesus is God, please explain that one to me.
>>
>> Sincerely James

I await your answer.

Sincerely James,
Why do humans
injure each other?
Go to jw.org
11/18/23

[Robert]

On Nov 18, 2023, and 5 others wrote
(in article HW.2B099861000...@news.eternal-september.org):

> On Nov 18, 2023, James wrote
> (in article<i70glihg6e59ssvu7...@4ax.com>):

> ***********************

> > > > > > You earlier showed John 10:30 that it allegedly proved Jesus was God.
> > > > > > IF that is true, then Jesus' disciples are also God because they are
> > > > > > ONE with God and Jesus. You can't have it both ways.

> > > > > > *************************
> Right here, had you read up a few lines you would have seen it.

>
> >
> > > >
> > > > > Our bodies are not redeemed, only our spirits are at this time. On
> > > > > resurrection day the believer will rise with redeemed bodies.
> > > >
> > > > What about the unbeliever, such as the ancient Aztecs and modern day
> > > > atheists, etc?
> > > >
> > > > According to the Bible, they will rise from their graves also:
> > >
> > > Yes, and to hell as well.
> >
> > That's just what I said, because "hell" IS the "grave".
>

> You are not that stupid, you know that it is also the pit. And out of that
> pit to judgement, the white throne Judgement before Jesus/Jehovah, then
> sentenced to what is to befall them in the Lake of Fire and Brimstone. And
> Yes, the same Jehovah who opened the ground and swallowed up 23,000 Israelis
> for their sins of idolatry and sexual perversion IIRC.

> >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - New American Standard
> > > > Acts 24:15 having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves,
> > > > that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and
> > > > the wicked.
> > > >
> > > > "AND THE WICKED". So don't cross them out of the picture yet. My God
> > > > is NOT a hellfire god, but a God of mercy and forgiveness. So even the
> > > > wicked will get another chance.
> > >
> > > Your god is a fictional god as you do not believe all his word, and you
> > > claim to follow a "man" and not any god.
> >
> > Where do you get that refuse from? Let me make the appropriate
> > corrections.
>

> From you, your statements, your disagreements with scripture that you ignore
> because it is not what you chose to believe.

> >
> >
> > My God is Jehovah of the Bible. And since ALL Scripture is inspired of
> > God (2 Tim 3:16), I believe ALL the Bible. I follow Jehovah God and
> > His Son Jesus Christ, who is "a god".
>

> You put the “a” in front of god there, it has never been part of that
> verse, also Jehovah in the flesh IS Jesus, and "The Ancient one” of the OT
> is the Heavenly Father, who is Spirit.
>
> Jhn 18:4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went
> forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?
>
> Jhn 18:5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am.
> And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
>
> Jhn 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am, they went backward, and
> fell to the ground.
>
> Jhn 18:7 Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of
> Nazareth.
>
> Jhn 18:8 Jesus answered, I have told you that I am: if therefore ye seek me,
> let these go their way:
>
> YHWH = I am Yes, the Great I am, who divested himself of his Glory to be born
> a man, live and die as a man, yet never giving up who He rightfully was, God
> in the Flesh. His Father restored to him his former glory when he ascended
> back to heaven. It is HE that will be your judge.

>
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Then it is that
> > > > > we will be just like Him. That is, those that have been Born Again.
> > > >
> > > > Well "born again" is a whole other subject, but let's just say for now
> > > > that they are a limited number. (Rev 14:1; 7:4)
> > >
> > > AYUP! They are the only ones who go to heaven. All the rest go to the Lake
> > > of Fire and Brimstone.
> >
> > Nonsense. You do not know the infinite mercies of God. Your god is a
> > sadistic 3 headed monster that inflicts unbearable pain forever. He is
> > a criminal of the worst kind, and reflects the Devil's sick
> > personality. Thank God I have gotten away from that sorry excuse for a
> > god.
>

> As Jesus said, you are of your father,...
> Jhn 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for
> I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
>
> Jhn 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? evenbecause ye cannot hear my
> word.
>
> Jhn 8:44 Ye are ofyourfather the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will
> do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because
> there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for
> he is a liar, and the father of it.
>
> ---
>
> Mat 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess
> also before my Father which is in heaven.
>
> Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before
> my Father which is in heaven.
>
> Mat 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send
> peace, but a sword.
>
> This same Jesus, for whom you claim to be a witness of, will deny you before
> His Heavenly Father, which means that you have condemned yourself to Hell
>
> Yes, this same Jesus who you just openly confessed before all that you have
> rejected him to believe the god of this world, satan. You even spoke with joy
> that you deny Him before all men who read this post of yours.
>
> Doing so, and confirming it before all men will now allow you to fulfill all
> forms of depravity in your private life which will then spill over to your
> public life and by doing so you will have exposed yourself to all. That is
> the way of sin and degradation.
>
> Are you sure you wish to dwell there in pride?

>
> >
> >
> > And by the way, there is no "Lake of Fire and Brimstone" in the Bible.
> > It is just referred to as the "lake of fire".
>

> Rev 19:20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought
> miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark
> of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive
> into a lakeof fire burning with brimstone.
>
> Rev 20:10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake offire and
> brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented
> day and night for ever and ever.
>
> Rev 20:14And death and hell were cast into thelake offire. This is the second
> death.
>
> Rev 20:15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast
> into thelake offire.

> >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Vs 21: "they may also be one in us". Is God then many more persons
> > > > > > > > than just three? Or does "one" not mean bodily substance, but in
> > > > > > > > agreement.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That is what the Godhead is, and it also is what the relationship
> > > > > > > between
> > > > > > > the ekklesia and God, as he described.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So instead of a Trinity, God is a multiplicity? I don't think even the
> > > > > > churches would buy that.
> > > > >
> > > > > No he is a Godhead. That is what the Bible teaches which in turn IS the
> > > > > word
> > > > > of God. What does it matter what some "churches" teach, some worship
> > > > > Mary,
> > > > > which is forbidden. One either believes the word of God or they don't.
> > > > > Pretenders are just that.
> > > >
> > > > True about the churches. But, are you sure "Godhead" is the correct
> > > > translation there?
> > >
> > > Where? I didn't mention a verse that used the word.
> >
> > You referred to a verse in the Bible when you said, "No he is a
> > Godhead. That is what the Bible teaches which in turn IS the word
> > of God."
>

> I would not of said that “he is a godhead” but a part of the Godhead.
> There are three verses in the Bible that use the term “Godhead” the greek
> word is different in two of them, and yes, it is in the Bible like I said,
> three times.
>
> Odd how you say that you believe the Bible and do not know much.

> >
> > > > According to Strong's Concordance the Greek word used there is
> > > > "theiotes" which means "divinity", not Godhead.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Vs 22: "they may be one just as We are one:" Are all of Jesus'
> > > > > > > > disciples a conglomerate of just one person? Or does it mean they all
> > > > > > > > agree with each other.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It means they are all of the same spirit.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Then that must be what John 10:30 means.Again, you can't have it both
> > > > > > ways.
> > > > >
> > > > > It means "one in agreement".
> > > >
> > > > Yes correct, not one in substance, like a Trinity.
> > >
> > > Yet you question the Godhead? But state that I am correct.
> >
> > Yes, I totally deny the 4th century Godhead. (Trinity)
>

> I did not use the term “trinity” And your use of the term Godhead, is not
> equated to the word “Trinity” so why confuse the two words unless you are
> trying to deceive many with your confusions?

> >
> > And you were correct when you said John 10:30 doesn't mean they were
> > one body, but means they are in total agreement.
>

> I have been telling you that for years, and so it is with the Godhead as
> well. Jesus said, I and my Father are one. In the same manner.
>
> We who are constructed in their same Image and likeness, are we not Body,
> Soul, and Spirit?

> >
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > PLUS, not just the people you
> > > > > > > alluded to but to ALL born Again believers.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > “If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do,
> > > > > > > > > though
> > > > > > > > > ye
> > > > > > > > > believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe,
> > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > Father is in me, and I in him.” (Joh 10:37-38)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > See above what John means by that statement. It has NOTHING to do with
> > > > > > > > that 4th century Trinity.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And you know full well that I do not subscribe to that doctrine, and
> > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > just again broke your promise to me of using that statement as if I
> > > > > > > did.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Some time ago my computer crashed. I lost all my notes. But I have
> > > > > > recorded it again. Also, what Bible translation do you use?
> > > > >
> > > > > I use several.
> > > >
> > > > Same here. But do you have a favorite, and why?
> > >
> > > What does it matter, it is God that reveals His truth, not the truth of an
> > > organization.
> >
> > Not all translations carry the same accuracy. Most have their good
> > points and bad points.
>

> Which is why the Heavenly Father gives his spirit to dwell in the hearts of
> Born Again men so that His spirit will lead us into all truth, and remind us
> of what the word of God says. After all it is the Spirit of God who inspired
> men of what to write that is worthy of being scripture. Who better to open
> ones eye than He who spoke ALL the words of His Father to men?

> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The Jews fully believed that he said he was God, and for that reason
> > > > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > desired to stone him.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The Jews believed all kinds of things. That is why Jesus called them
> > > > > > > > offspring of vipers, and that they were WICKED. (Mt 3:7) If they are
> > > > > > > > your source of proof you have grossly weak proof.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That is your opinion. Especially since you just accused all Jews of all
> > > > > > > times, thus rendering the OT erroneous.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Please explain. I don't understand you.
> > > > >
> > > > > You were to one to claim that ALL jews were wicked. That would appear to
> > > > > include King David, all the prophets, all from Moses on Down. Your words,
> > > > > not
> > > > > mine.
> > > >
> > > > Sorry if you interpreted it that way. All Jews were not wicked. Look
> > > > at Jesus and his apostles, etc. And many of Jesus' Jewish followers.
> > > > Perhaps you misinterpreted my saying that God and Jesus rejected the
> > > > Jews as their chosen people.
> > >
> > > Dude, those were your exact words, if you didn't mean it, then don't say
> > > it.
> >
> > As far as I know I didn't. Please quote that segment.
>

> Now you would seek to deny them? Your words will be recounted to you on
> judgment day. I have already shown you your own words in this thread that you
> spoke, noe why don’t you go back and review your own words, seeking
> diligently.

> I have already shown you what that meant.
>
> As to the 144K they are a peculiar class of people, who ALL died sacrificing
> their lives for Jesus as Martyrs. You need to read what I said in the context
> of which it was written, and as verified by scripture. When they went to
> Heaven it is the Heaven where God dwells.
>
> As to earth, there are two, the present one, and the New Earth. Which you do
> not believe, yet it is the word of God.

> >
> >
> > > >
> > > > From my vantage point (I won't sugar-coat it) you have fallen for
> > > > Satan's lies. The way to prove him a liar is to research, research,
> > > > research.
> > >
> > > I know the voice of the Lord. I also know when satan or his Angels speak.
> >
> > According to your postings, he has pulled the wool over your eyes many
> > times.
>

> You speak the words of your father, the accuser. The Lord rebuke you.

> >
> > > Why don't you? Because you have rejected Jesus.
> >
> > Actually you have rejected the loving God of the Bible, and instead
> > supports a sadistic monster 3 headed god. Your god will be vanishing
> > soon. Count on it!
>

> Again you speak falsehoods, words of the accuser. Your own words will accuse
> you on Judgment day unless you repent.

> Constantly you bring up the trinity before me, thus breaking your own words
> saying you will not tie me in with the trinitarians. Numerous times you have
> lied, breaking your words.
> You do not talk to people, you lump them all into one person, a non-JW and
> you argue against all as if all the others are RC’s. Just a faceless
> theological entity thus deceiving yourself. You are corrupted, mindless, and
> without concern for others.

> Only when you get on an airplane.

>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > This is why I can say that you lie, and lie a lot with the full
> > > > > > > intention of
> > > > > > > deceiving others. Which you WILL be held accountable for if you do not
> > > > > > > repent, and have all your sins washed away by the Blood of Jesus.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We ALL need to repent of our sins.
> > > > >
> > > > > Even satan would claim that with couched meanings.
> > > > > You claim to use scriptures as if that made you righteous, yet you also
> > > > > admit that satan often quotes scriptures.
> > > >
> > > > And your point?
> > >
> > > To clarify your point that you believe Satan is as correct as you are. That
> > > you are both equally righteous.
> >
> > You need to go back to school and take English class again. And learn
> > what "absurd" means.
>

> Why, because you see now the absurdity in your viewpoints?

> >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Who
> > > > > > > > > when he ascended up to Heaven His Glory was returned to Him by His
> > > > > > > > > Father,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You just contradicted yourself. You are saying the God became a man,
> > > > > > > > yet the Father God remained in Heaven? You are not making any sense.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Because you are blinded and deafend by the evil one.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We are told to REASON on the Scriptures.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yet you cannot accept the words of others?
> > > >
> > > > I sometimes do, if I believe that are true.
> > >
> > > Look at all the times the JW spoon fed you doctrine that you took hook line
> > > and sinker, and later they modified it, or changed it entirely even
> > > opposing
> > > what they first taught, and you, like an abused spouse went right along
> > > with
> > > them anyhow.
> > >
> > > Not a wise thing to do, eh?
> >
> > When the JW's introduce a new doctrine, they show the research that
> > proves the point. But this is how the true religion is supposed to
> > progress, unlike most of the churches that lay stagnant:
> >
> > -- Revised Standard
> > Proverbs 4:18 But the path of the righteous is like the light of
> > dawn, which shines brighter and brighter until full day.
> >
> > Yes, we are close to full day now.
>

> Were are your lists of admitted errors and false teachings? Your
> contradictory terms?
> Why do you hide and obfuscate them?

>
> >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Reasoning with the carnal mind is not understanding God, nor his words.
> > > >
> > > > Tell that to the apostle Paul:
> > > >
> > > > -- New King James
> > > > Acts 17:2 Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for
> > > > three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
> > >
> > > Those people were the ones who were under the old covenant. Not Pagans.
> >
> > You missed the point. you said above, "Reasoning with the carnal mind
> > is not understanding God, nor his words." Thus you would not reason on
> > the Scriptures. Yet the apostle Paul disagrees with you.
>

> Yu have not shown that, and we are in total agreement.

> >
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The Bible can clear your confusion up.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > God created Jesus. (Col 1:15)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all
> > > > > > > creation.”
> > > > > > > (Col 1:15)
> > > > >
> > > > > Which as I showed you below does not mean created, nor anything similar.
> > > > > Yet
> > > > > you have to jump in here before my comments trying to deceive others.
> > > >
> > > > Once and for all, examine the context.
> > > >
> > > > --Col 1:15= " the firstborn of all creation;' (ASV)
> > > > --Col 1:16= "all thing created", "all things have been created through
> > > > him, and unto him; (ASV)
> > > >
> > > > The theme here is THINGS CREATED.
> > >
> > > How wrong you are.
> > >
> > > Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every
> > > creature:
> >

> > Yes, before every creature, Jesus was created. That is a lie of satan that
> > you constantly reiterate in spite of having been shown the truth,
> > scripturally.
>
> No, not at all.
>
> nothing was Born Again before him, all who are born into the kingdom of God
> were born after Jesus paid the price for ALL their sin. He is and was the
> “First Born” Begotten of who? The Heavenly Father. Jesus died in the
> flesh as God, He bore ALL SIN for everyman upon him. The only one capable of
> doing that is God. When Jesus Christ arose, He had the same spirit that he
> died with, but he arose with a redeemed body, not one of Sin. It was sinless.
> A similar body will all those who died before and after him will they have,
> when they are risen as the Redeemed of Christ. Jesus the first, the leader,
> the first begotten of the Father.
>
> All these things you have been shown from scripture, without deceit, without
> twisting or manipulation of the Word of God. Your understandings have all
> been by intention, deceitful, twisted, or to create doubt, like your
> translation stating “a god” and the sorry excuses that you follow up with
> in order to justify injecting a falsehood, as if he is but one god of many
> gods.
> Yet you claim to “follow” him and the New Kingdom message, of which you
> have no truthful knowledge.

>
> >
> > > Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that
> > > are in earth, visible and invisible, whetherthey be thrones, or dominions,
> > > or
> > > principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
>

> By Jesus aka Jehovah aka YHWH.

> >
> > You have an incorrect translation there, where it says "all things
> > were created by him". That contradicts Gen 1:1 that says GOD did all
> > the creating:
> >
> > -- Revised Standard
> > Genesis 1:1 IN THE beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
> >
> > Your translation should read at Col 1:16:
>

> I have the truth of the matter in my heart, it does not jump around from year
> to year like the doctrines of the JW’s. You claim to be “Jehovah’s
> Witnesses” yet you admit you follow the Doctrines of Christ, but a Christ
> with no glory or power.
>
> What a bunch of bald faced liars. All who are of the anti-christ spirit.

> >
> >
> > -- New King James
> > Colossians 1:16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven
> > and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or
> > dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through
> > Him and for Him.
>

> Jesus is God as shown you many times.

>
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
> >
> > Yes, God created Jesus, then through Jesus created everything else.
>

> False

>
> >
> > > There it is in plain English. Creature, things created whether in heaven or
> > > elsewhere, and he was before all things.
> > >
> > > Get a grip on your ignorance.
> >
> > See above
>

> Already have and you are wrong.

> >
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also this one: -- Revised Standard
> > > > > > Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born
> > > > > > of all creation;
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Look at the context. They are things created, of which Jesus was the
> > > > > > first.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jesus WAS the creator. in this messianic title, firstborn of all creation
> > > > > may
> > > > > be interpreted as "existing before all creation" or "existing superior to
> > > > > all
> > > > > creation
> > > >
> > > > Interpreted by Trinitarians, but not Bible believers. And by the way,
> > > > the Bible says that God created all things:
> > >
> > > Yes, And I just wrote about that from Colossians.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -- King James
> > > > Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
> > > >
> > > > Yes, Jesus assisted God in some way, but God did the creating.
> > >
> > > You know neither. Nor do you have understanding.
> >
> > If you take off those dark sunglasses, you could see better.
>

> Pitiful attempt you made there.
>
> Why do you call yourselves “Christian” when you deny him as God? How can
> you be a christian when the 144,000 are all jewish young men who are virgins?
>
> How can you be a christian with no ekklesia’s or “churches” which both
> the Jew as well as Born Again believers gather together to worship God with
> songs of praise?
>
> Have your eyes glazed over yet?

> Yes, we see the substitution of “In” to replace “by” the spirit.

> >
> >
> > This shows the contrast between a fleshly being and
> > a spirit being.
>

> I currently am a spiritual being who walks in the flesh. As does every other
> human who is Born Again. You? Why you do not even meet up with the
> qualifications of Romans 8: 9-10 and because of that you have nothing to do
> with the Heavenly Father, as your god is the god of this world, satan.

> >
> >
> > Now don't get your feathers in a ruffle. I am aware that other
> > translations may show it different. For example, the KJV. It says,
> > "but quickened by the spirit:"
> >
> > So the best way to verify it is to see how the actual Greek words
> > read.
> >
> > "...having been put to death indeed to flesh having been made alive
> > but to spirit... (Kingdom Interlinear Translation)
> >
> > The Revised Standard version had it right.
> >
> > Before you start condemning it because it is a JW publication, PLEASE
> > CHECK WITH ANOTHER INTERLINEAR. For example, the Biblehub has one:
> > https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_peter/3-18.htm
> > Check it out.
>

> First your JW interlinear is as biased as many of the RC teachings are. The
> one you linked to is also equally incorrect.
>
> The interlinear NT bible I have here disagrees with all that you have quoted,
> and for good reason. I explained to you above what died and what did not die
> in Jesus when He was sacrificed for sins. If you were to read that verse,
> with that understanding as well as the context of the surrounding verses in
> that chapter you would or should realize that you were misled, and your focus
> shifted off the truth that It was the tabernacle, the body of Jesus that
> dies, which he was given permission to do so, and so the Body was sacrificed,
> but not the spirit of Jesus/God.
>
> He was also given the permission to raise his own self from the dead, but he
> waited for his Dad to do it, so that he might fully satisfy his dad, by
> fulfilling ALL that He Dad had for him to do. So the spirit of God the Father
> raised the Body Redeemed from the Dead. His spirit being never died, was
> never sin. I would suggest that you ponder deeply the scripture, but since
> you are not of God, you cannot do that with understanding,...
>
> “All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son,
> but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to
> whomsoever the Son will reveal him.” (Mat 11:27)
>
> “For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is
> in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.”
> (1Co 2:11)
>
> Therefore if the Spirit of God is not within you, then you are out to lunch
> regarding the things of God.

> His body was not to be found in the grave/tomb. What happened to it?
> See, you cannot know nor understand. Per scripture given you just above.

>
> >
> >
> > -- King James
> > Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the
> > offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
> >
> > If Jesus took back his body in the resurrection, that would nullify
> > the ransom. Thank God he didn't.
>

> What difference would it make to you, to you he was not God? You renounced
> him as God.
> Also shows the simple fact of resurrection of the Bodies of the Born Again
> believers in Jesus, that you cannot grasp.

>
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Spirits in their natural form are invisible. Jesus had to materialize a
> > > > > > body
> > > > > > in order to be seen by men. But it couldn't be the same one he had
> > > > > > before
> > > > > > because that one was sacrificed for mankind.
> > > > > Spirits do not eat solid food. The scripture above, shows by example and
> > > > > the words of Jesus that you willingly told another lie. Why do I say
> > > > > that?
> > > > > Because I have shown you those scriptures many times before In response
> > > > > to
> > > > > your false statements.
> > > >
> > > > And I have answered you using the Bible, but you seem to conveniently
> > > > forget those. Like the account with the newly resurrected Jesus
> > > > visiting Mary Magdalene in a garden. Do you remember the point of that
> > > > one?
> > >
> > > No, you did not answer from the Bible. Jesus told her to tell the disciples
> > > that he was alive, and he was seen then by over 500 men who were witness to
> > > his walking on earth.
> >
> > Back up a little. When Mary Magdalene saw Jesus, she thought he was
> > the GARDENER. It wasn't until Jesus spoke to her, that she recognized
> > him as Jesus. Thus Jesus materialized a body that didn't look like his
> > original one. All the Scriptures bear this out.
>

> That is your supposition, when he was buried his body was so abused he no
> longer looked like a man. Yet when he revealed himself to others he had holes
> in his hands, feet, and side. Where he was wounded for out transgressions.
> How conveniently you set said the whole truth to justify your lies. Jesus was
> restored physically, yet the wounds of the nail prints and the sword remained
> as visible truth for all people of all times that it is He that is the
> Saviour.

> Then you admit that you lie about them.

> Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we
> have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
>
> Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed:and there were
> sealed an hundred and fortyand four thousand of all the tribes of the
> children of Israel.
>
> Rev 7:5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of
> Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve
> thousand.
>
> Rev 7:6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of
> Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed
> twelve thousand.
>
> Rev 7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of
> Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve
> thousand.
>
> Rev 7:8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of
> Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed
> twelve thousand.
>
> This is part of what I just recently quoted to you in another thread, proving
> you lie.
>
> I have told and shown you these things for well over two decades. That is why
> I personally can attest to you lying about knowing these things.

>
> > > >
> > > > -- Revised Standard
> > > > Matthew 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the
> > > > angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.
> > > >
> > > > If Jesus is God, please explain that one to me.
> > > >
> > > > Sincerely James
> >
> > I await your answer.
>

> Jesus is the son of God, not God the Father.
>
> I have explained this to you again recently and in more detail, which does
> not deviate from what you were shown over two decades ago.
> >
> >
> > Sincerely James,

[James]

Here is what I am talking about: John 17:21,22,

" 21. "that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in
You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that
You sent Me.
22. "And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they
may be one just as We are one: " (NKJV)



>>
>> >
>> > > >

>> > > > > Our bodies are not redeemed, only our spirits are at this time. On
>> > > > > resurrection day the believer will rise with redeemed bodies.
>> > > >
>> > > > What about the unbeliever, such as the ancient Aztecs and modern day
>> > > > atheists, etc?
>> > > >
>> > > > According to the Bible, they will rise from their graves also:
>> > >
>> > > Yes, and to hell as well.
>> >
>> > That's just what I said, because "hell" IS the "grave".
>>
>> You are not that stupid, you know that it is also the pit. And out of that
>> pit to judgement, the white throne Judgement before Jesus/Jehovah, then
>> sentenced to what is to befall them in the Lake of Fire and Brimstone. And
>> Yes, the same Jehovah who opened the ground and swallowed up 23,000 Israelis
>> for their sins of idolatry and sexual perversion IIRC.

Yes, God is all love (1 John 4:8), but is also a God of justice and
will punish the wicked on His terms.

>> >
>> >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > - New American Standard
>> > > > Acts 24:15 having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves,
>> > > > that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and
>> > > > the wicked.
>> > > >
>> > > > "AND THE WICKED". So don't cross them out of the picture yet. My God
>> > > > is NOT a hellfire god, but a God of mercy and forgiveness. So even the
>> > > > wicked will get another chance.
>> > >
>> > > Your god is a fictional god as you do not believe all his word, and you
>> > > claim to follow a "man" and not any god.
>> >
>> > Where do you get that refuse from? Let me make the appropriate
>> > corrections.
>>
>> From you, your statements, your disagreements with scripture that you ignore
>> because it is not what you chose to believe.

??

>> >
>> >
>> > My God is Jehovah of the Bible. And since ALL Scripture is inspired of
>> > God (2 Tim 3:16), I believe ALL the Bible. I follow Jehovah God and
>> > His Son Jesus Christ, who is "a god".
>>
>> You put the “a” in front of god there, it has never been part of that
>> verse, also Jehovah in the flesh IS Jesus, and "The Ancient one” of the OT
>> is the Heavenly Father, who is Spirit.

Yet a creed falsely says that Jesus and God are "coequal". The
Athanasian Creed:

"The Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost is all
one: the glory equal, the majesty coeternal. . . . the Father is
almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Ghost almighty. . . . So the
Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet
there are not three Gods, but one God. . . . In this Trinity none is
afore or after other; none is greater or less than another. But the
whole three persons are coeternal together, and coequal."

The apostle Paul disagrees with them. Notice:

-- Revised Standard

1 Corinthians 11:3 But I want you to understand that the head of
every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head
of Christ is God.


>>

>> Jhn 18:4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went
>> forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?
>>
>> Jhn 18:5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am.
>> And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
>>
>> Jhn 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am, they went backward, and
>> fell to the ground.
>>
>> Jhn 18:7 Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of
>> Nazareth.
>>
>> Jhn 18:8 Jesus answered, I have told you that I am: if therefore ye seek me,
>> let these go their way:
>>
>> YHWH = I am Yes, the Great I am, who divested himself of his Glory to be born
>> a man, live and die as a man, yet never giving up who He rightfully was, God
>> in the Flesh. His Father restored to him his former glory when he ascended
>> back to heaven. It is HE that will be your judge.

Jesus never said he was God. NEVER! The "I am" is just an expression,
like "I am going to the store.
Based on the way you interpret it, then is this centurion also God?

-- Revised Standard
Matthew 8:8 But the centurion answered him, "Lord, I AM not worthy to
have you come under my roof; but only say the word, and my servant
will be healed. ("I AM" caps mine)

And was Paul Also God?

- New Jerusalem with Apocrypha
1 Corinthians 7:7 I should still like everyone to be as I AM myself;
but everyone has his own gift from God, one this kind and the next
something different. ("I AM" caps mine)

I agree with all the Scriptures.

>>
>> This same Jesus, for whom you claim to be a witness of, will deny you before
>> His Heavenly Father, which means that you have condemned yourself to Hell

Are you now a prophet? And can predict the future for a person?
Also, "hell" in the Bible is the grave. (see Job 14:13)

>>
>> Yes, this same Jesus who you just openly confessed before all that you have
>> rejected him to believe the god of this world, satan.

Nonsense. You know what God thinks of liars. (Pr 6:16-19)

>You even spoke with joy
>> that you deny Him before all men who read this post of yours.

It stands repeating. Nonsense. You know what God thinks of liars. (Pr
6:16-19)

>>
>> Doing so, and confirming it before all men will now allow you to fulfill all
>> forms of depravity in your private life which will then spill over to your
>> public life and by doing so you will have exposed yourself to all. That is
>> the way of sin and degradation.

Dream on, dream on.

>>
>> Are you sure you wish to dwell there in pride?

I am proud I am able to teach the Bible to others.

>>
>> >
>> >
>> > And by the way, there is no "Lake of Fire and Brimstone" in the Bible.
>> > It is just referred to as the "lake of fire".
>>
>> Rev 19:20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought
>> miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark
>> of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive
>> into a lakeof fire burning with brimstone.

"with brimstone" is not in the real NT.

>>
>> Rev 20:10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake offire and
>> brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented
>> day and night for ever and ever.

"with brimstone" is not in the real NT.

>>
>> Rev 20:14And death and hell were cast into thelake offire. This is the second
>> death.

There you said it. The Lake of fire is not literal but MEANS THE
SECOND DEATH.

>>
>> Rev 20:15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast
>> into thelake offire.

Which as you said means the "second death".

Your translation says "Godhead". Most others don't. For example:

-- American Standard= divinity
- Living Bible= eternal power
-- Revised Standard= deity
-- International English= divinity
-- New American Standard= divine nature
-- New Jerusalem with Apocrypha= everlasting power
-- New American with Apocrypha=divinity
-- New Revised Standard with Apocrypha= divine nature
-- Darby's Bible= divinity
-- Weymouth's New Testament= divine nature
-- New Living Translation= divine nature
-- International Standard Version= divine nature
-- William's NewTestament= divine nature
-- Montgomery New Testament= divinity
--New World Translation= Godship

>> >
>> > > > According to Strong's Concordance the Greek word used there is
>> > > > "theiotes" which means "divinity", not Godhead.
>> > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Vs 22: "they may be one just as We are one:" Are all of Jesus'
>> > > > > > > > disciples a conglomerate of just one person? Or does it mean they all
>> > > > > > > > agree with each other.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > It means they are all of the same spirit.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Then that must be what John 10:30 means.Again, you can't have it both
>> > > > > > ways.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > It means "one in agreement".
>> > > >
>> > > > Yes correct, not one in substance, like a Trinity.
>> > >
>> > > Yet you question the Godhead? But state that I am correct.
>> >
>> > Yes, I totally deny the 4th century Godhead. (Trinity)
>>
>> I did not use the term “trinity” And your use of the term Godhead, is not
>> equated to the word “Trinity” so why confuse the two words unless you are
>> trying to deceive many with your confusions?

We don't use the word "Godhead" which to many people speaks of the
Trinity.
We use the word "Godship".

>> >
>> > And you were correct when you said John 10:30 doesn't mean they were
>> > one body, but means they are in total agreement.
>>
>> I have been telling you that for years, and so it is with the Godhead as
>> well. Jesus said, I and my Father are one. In the same manner.

And as I have said many times, it means they are in agreement, not in
substance. If yours was the case, then all of Jesus followers are also
ONE with God and Jesus. (see John 17:21,22)

>>
>> We who are constructed in their same Image and likeness, are we not Body,
>> Soul, and Spirit?

In some cases, yes. It all depends on the context of "soul" and
"spirit". For example, Gen 2:7 shows that Adam WAS a soul, didn't have
a soul. And Gen shows even fish are souls:

-- Darby's Bible
Genesis 1:20 And God said, Let the waters swarm with swarms of living
souls [nephesh], and let fowl fly above the earth in the expanse of
the heavens. [brackets mine]

Now compare with the KJV:

- King James
Genesis 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the
moving creature [nephesh] that hath life, and fowl that may fly above
the earth in the open firmament of heaven. [brackets mine]

True, but have you TESTED the spirit yet to see its source?

-- Revised Standard
1 John 4:1 BELOVED, DO not believe every spirit, but test the spirits
to see whether they are of God; for many false prophets have gone out
into the world.

>> >
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > The Jews fully believed that he said he was God, and for that reason
>> > > > > > > > > they
>> > > > > > > > > desired to stone him.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > The Jews believed all kinds of things. That is why Jesus called them
>> > > > > > > > offspring of vipers, and that they were WICKED. (Mt 3:7) If they are
>> > > > > > > > your source of proof you have grossly weak proof.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > That is your opinion. Especially since you just accused all Jews of all
>> > > > > > > times, thus rendering the OT erroneous.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Please explain. I don't understand you.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > You were to one to claim that ALL jews were wicked. That would appear to
>> > > > > include King David, all the prophets, all from Moses on Down. Your words,
>> > > > > not
>> > > > > mine.
>> > > >
>> > > > Sorry if you interpreted it that way. All Jews were not wicked. Look
>> > > > at Jesus and his apostles, etc. And many of Jesus' Jewish followers.
>> > > > Perhaps you misinterpreted my saying that God and Jesus rejected the
>> > > > Jews as their chosen people.
>> > >
>> > > Dude, those were your exact words, if you didn't mean it, then don't say
>> > > it.
>> >
>> > As far as I know I didn't. Please quote that segment.

>> Now you would seek to deny them? Your words will be recounted to you on
>> judgment day. I have already shown you your own words in this thread that you
>> spoke, noe why don’t you go back and review your own words, seeking
>> diligently.

That's sounds like a cop out. Please quote those alleged words.

And so have I. If you want me to repeat it, let me know.

>>
>> As to the 144K they are a peculiar class of people, who ALL died sacrificing
>> their lives for Jesus as Martyrs. You need to read what I said in the context
>> of which it was written, and as verified by scripture. When they went to
>> Heaven it is the Heaven where God dwells.

Not all were Martyrs. There are even some alive today. They are
referred to as the "anointed remnant". And are a part of the JW
organization. During the memorial of Christ's death, they are the only
ones who partake of the emblems. (bread and wine)

>>
>> As to earth, there are two, the present one, and the New Earth. Which you do
>> not believe, yet it is the word of God.

I believe the word of God. (2 Tim 3:16) But not the twisted word of

God.

>> >
>> >
>> > > >
>> > > > From my vantage point (I won't sugar-coat it) you have fallen for
>> > > > Satan's lies. The way to prove him a liar is to research, research,
>> > > > research.
>> > >
>> > > I know the voice of the Lord. I also know when satan or his Angels speak.
>> >
>> > According to your postings, he has pulled the wool over your eyes many
>> > times.
>>
>> You speak the words of your father, the accuser. The Lord rebuke you.

Your eyes have been gouged out by Satan's 'pitchfork'. Things don't
look well for you. But I hope you change before it is too late.
Really.

>> >
>> > > Why don't you? Because you have rejected Jesus.
>> >
>> > Actually you have rejected the loving God of the Bible, and instead
>> > supports a sadistic monster 3 headed god. Your god will be vanishing
>> > soon. Count on it!
>>
>> Again you speak falsehoods, words of the accuser. Your own words will accuse
>> you on Judgment day unless you repent.

My words to you exactly.

Sorry about my bad memory. I will make a note of it.

Shall I say "oink, oink"? (:>)

>>
>> >
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > This is why I can say that you lie, and lie a lot with the full
>> > > > > > > intention of
>> > > > > > > deceiving others. Which you WILL be held accountable for if you do not
>> > > > > > > repent, and have all your sins washed away by the Blood of Jesus.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > We ALL need to repent of our sins.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Even satan would claim that with couched meanings.
>> > > > > You claim to use scriptures as if that made you righteous, yet you also
>> > > > > admit that satan often quotes scriptures.
>> > > >
>> > > > And your point?
>> > >
>> > > To clarify your point that you believe Satan is as correct as you are. That
>> > > you are both equally righteous.
>> >
>> > You need to go back to school and take English class again. And learn
>> > what "absurd" means.
>>
>> Why, because you see now the absurdity in your viewpoints?

Actually those are my words to you also.

We hide no Bible truths. But put them high and bright.

>>
>> >
>> >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Reasoning with the carnal mind is not understanding God, nor his words.
>> > > >
>> > > > Tell that to the apostle Paul:
>> > > >
>> > > > -- New King James
>> > > > Acts 17:2 Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for
>> > > > three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures,
>> > >
>> > > Those people were the ones who were under the old covenant. Not Pagans.
>> >
>> > You missed the point. you said above, "Reasoning with the carnal mind
>> > is not understanding God, nor his words." Thus you would not reason on
>> > the Scriptures. Yet the apostle Paul disagrees with you.
>>
>> Yu have not shown that, and we are in total agreement.

We need to REASON on the Scriptures:

-- King James
Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three
sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,

>> >
>> >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > The Bible can clear your confusion up.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > God created Jesus. (Col 1:15)
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > “He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all
>> > > > > > > creation.”
>> > > > > > > (Col 1:15)
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Which as I showed you below does not mean created, nor anything similar.
>> > > > > Yet
>> > > > > you have to jump in here before my comments trying to deceive others.
>> > > >
>> > > > Once and for all, examine the context.
>> > > >
>> > > > --Col 1:15= " the firstborn of all creation;' (ASV)
>> > > > --Col 1:16= "all thing created", "all things have been created through
>> > > > him, and unto him; (ASV)
>> > > >
>> > > > The theme here is THINGS CREATED.
>> > >
>> > > How wrong you are.
>> > >
>> > > Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every
>> > > creature:
>> >
>> > Yes, before every creature, Jesus was created. That is a lie of satan that
>> > you constantly reiterate in spite of having been shown the truth,
>> > scripturally.
>>
>> No, not at all.
>>
>> nothing was Born Again before him, all who are born into the kingdom of God
>> were born after Jesus paid the price for ALL their sin.

Actually, all creations took place way BEFORE Jesus' ransom sacrifice.
(Col 1:16,17)
None were created after Jesus came to earth. (at least the Bible
doesn't mention anything)

>He is and was the
>> “First Born” Begotten of who? The Heavenly Father. Jesus died in the
>> flesh as God,

Jesus is no more God than I am. (whoops, "I am", what does that tell
you?) Here is Scriptural proof. Look them up in YOUR Bible:

Jesus didn't know the day or hour. But only God did.(Mt 24:36)
Cannot look at God and still live. (Ex 33:20)
No man has ever seen God; (1 John 4:12)
Jesus has the same God as we do. (Mt 27:46)
No one has seen the Father. (John 6:46)
Jesus said he was the start of God's creations. (Rev 3:14)
Yes, Jesus was created by God (Col 1:15)
God is not a three headed freak, but only ONE God. (Deut 6:4)
God is not a three headed freak, but only ONE God. (Mr 12:29)
Only God is good. (Mr 10:18)
Jesus said must worship and serve only God. (Mt 4:10)
In Heaven, God is the head of Jesus. (1 Cor 11:3)
Jesus' angel said to "Worship God", not Jesus (Rev 19:10)
God is greater than Jesus. (John 14:28)
Jesus said, "I am God's Son", not 'I am God'. (John 10:36)

He bore ALL SIN for everyman upon him. The only one capable of
>> doing that is God.

No, the Bible shows God's Son qualifies.

> When Jesus Christ arose, He had the same spirit that he
>> died with, but he arose with a redeemed body, not one of Sin. It was sinless.

Jesus was ALWAYS sinless, in Heaven and on earth:

-- New King James
1 Peter 2:22 "Who committed no sin, nor was guile found in His
mouth'';

>> A similar body will all those who died before and after him will they have,
>> when they are risen as the Redeemed of Christ. Jesus the first, the leader,
>> the first begotten of the Father.
>>
>> All these things you have been shown from scripture, without deceit, without
>> twisting or manipulation of the Word of God. Your understandings have all
>> been by intention, deceitful, twisted, or to create doubt, like your
>> translation stating “a god” and the sorry excuses that you follow up with
>> in order to justify injecting a falsehood, as if he is but one god of many
>> gods.

There are "many gods". Didn't you know that? Read your Bible:

- Revised Standard
1 Corinthians 8:5 For although there may be so-called gods in heaven
or on earth--as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"--

>> Yet you claim to “follow” him and the New Kingdom message, of which you
>> have no truthful knowledge.

On the contrary, the JW's are fulfilling Mt 24:14 today. That is what
Jesus preached in his day:

-- Revised Standard
Luke 4:43 but he said to them, "I must preach the good news of the
kingdom of God to the other cities also; for I was sent for this
purpose."

>>
>> >
>> > > Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that
>> > > are in earth, visible and invisible, whetherthey be thrones, or dominions,
>> > > or
>> > > principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
>>
>> By Jesus aka Jehovah aka YHWH.

By Jesus aka Son of Jehovah aka YHWH.

>> >
>> > You have an incorrect translation there, where it says "all things
>> > were created by him". That contradicts Gen 1:1 that says GOD did all
>> > the creating:
>> >
>> > -- Revised Standard
>> > Genesis 1:1 IN THE beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
>> >
>> > Your translation should read at Col 1:16:
>>
>> I have the truth of the matter in my heart, it does not jump around from year
>> to year like the doctrines of the JW’s. You claim to be “Jehovah’s
>> Witnesses” yet you admit you follow the Doctrines of Christ, but a Christ
>> with no glory or power.

COMPLETELY false. Anyone who has read a Watchtower magazine has seen
that Jesus has much glory and full of power. And he will be on a
'white horse' to lead an army of angels to punish the wicked:

"15 Announcing the King’s coming “with power and great glory” to
execute judgment, the book of Revelation states: “I saw heaven opened,
and look! a white horse. And the one seated on it is called Faithful
and True, and he judges and carries on war in righteousness."
(Watchtower 2014,2/15,p.6, "Hail Christ, the Glorious King!")

>>
>> What a bunch of bald faced liars. All who are of the anti-christ spirit.
>> >
>> >
>> > -- New King James
>> > Colossians 1:16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven
>> > and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or
>> > dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through
>> > Him and for Him.
>>
>> Jesus is God as shown you many times.

NOT!

If your "spirit" here has Jesus' personality, then JESUS DIDN'T REALLY
DIE. And the ransom is nullified.
Thank God you are wrong.

>>
>> He was also given the permission to raise his own self from the dead,

Use Paul's reasoning here (Acts 17:2), If he could raise himself from
the dead, then he couldn't have been really dead.

>but he
>> waited for his Dad to do it, so that he might fully satisfy his dad, by
>> fulfilling ALL that He Dad had for him to do. So the spirit of God the Father
>> raised the Body Redeemed from the Dead. His spirit being never died, was
>> never sin. I would suggest that you ponder deeply the scripture, but since
>> you are not of God, you cannot do that with understanding,...

His "Dad" raised him up, but he IS his Dad (YHWH, Jehovah) Do you see
what you are saying? You are making it impossible for unbelievers to
become believers, since you make no sense.

>>
>> “All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son,
>> but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to
>> whomsoever the Son will reveal him.” (Mat 11:27)
>>
>> “For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is
>> in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.”
>> (1Co 2:11)
>>
>> Therefore if the Spirit of God is not within you, then you are out to lunch
>> regarding the things of God.

The Scripture you just quoted said "the things of God knoweth no man".
Yes, a person may have God's Holy Spirit, but "no one knows the things
of God". (NKJV)

God disposed of it.

>> See, you cannot know nor understand. Per scripture given you just above.

True, I am still a student of the Bible, and will always be. But I
understand many things of the Bible.

>>
>> >
>> >
>> > -- King James
>> > Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the
>> > offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
>> >
>> > If Jesus took back his body in the resurrection, that would nullify
>> > the ransom. Thank God he didn't.
>>
>> What difference would it make to you, to you he was not God? You renounced
>> him as God.

The Bible does absolutely.

>> Also shows the simple fact of resurrection of the Bodies of the Born Again
>> believers in Jesus, that you cannot grasp.

I do not accept false teachings, and sometimes they make no sense.

>>
>> >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > Spirits in their natural form are invisible. Jesus had to materialize a
>> > > > > > body
>> > > > > > in order to be seen by men. But it couldn't be the same one he had
>> > > > > > before
>> > > > > > because that one was sacrificed for mankind.
>> > > > > Spirits do not eat solid food. The scripture above, shows by example and
>> > > > > the words of Jesus that you willingly told another lie. Why do I say
>> > > > > that?
>> > > > > Because I have shown you those scriptures many times before In response
>> > > > > to
>> > > > > your false statements.
>> > > >
>> > > > And I have answered you using the Bible, but you seem to conveniently
>> > > > forget those. Like the account with the newly resurrected Jesus
>> > > > visiting Mary Magdalene in a garden. Do you remember the point of that
>> > > > one?
>> > >
>> > > No, you did not answer from the Bible. Jesus told her to tell the disciples
>> > > that he was alive, and he was seen then by over 500 men who were witness to
>> > > his walking on earth.
>> >
>> > Back up a little. When Mary Magdalene saw Jesus, she thought he was
>> > the GARDENER. It wasn't until Jesus spoke to her, that she recognized
>> > him as Jesus. Thus Jesus materialized a body that didn't look like his
>> > original one. All the Scriptures bear this out.
>>
>> That is your supposition, when he was buried his body was so abused he no
>> longer looked like a man.

Where in the Bible did it say that?

Yet when he revealed himself to others he had holes
>> in his hands, feet, and side. Where he was wounded for out transgressions.

Yes, it took those wounds for people to recognize him. Also, Mary
Magdalene didn't mention any wounds, so that is why she thought he was
the gardener. It was when he SPOKE to her, that she then recognized
him. He must have applied those wounds later before his disciples.

>> How conveniently you set said the whole truth to justify your lies.

What I said comes right out of the Bible. And sometimes we reason on
it.

>Jesus was
>> restored physically,

That is not what the Bible says: It says he died as a fleshly being,
but was raised up as a spirit being. That is showing the contrast. In
the Bible, what is the opposite of a flesh and blood being? A non
flesh and blood spirit being:

-- Revised Standard
1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the
righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being
put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit;

Yes, some translations say it differently. So here is a Greek
interlinear English word for Greek word:

"having been put to death indeed in [the] flesh having been made
alive however in [the] spirit"
(https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_peter/3-18.htm)

Somehow, you continually get mislead.

And I told you that not all the tribes mentioned here were the
Israelites tribes. Thus showing they were not literal. Remember, you
are in the highly symbolic book of Revelation.

>>
>> I have told and shown you these things for well over two decades. That is why
>> I personally can attest to you lying about knowing these things.

Wow, I wish I had a memory as good as you allege for two decades ago.
I am doing good to remember two days ago! (:>)

>>
>> > > >
>> > > > -- Revised Standard
>> > > > Matthew 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the
>> > > > angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.
>> > > >
>> > > > If Jesus is God, please explain that one to me.
>> > > >
>> > > > Sincerely James
>> >
>> > I await your answer.
>>
>> Jesus is the son of God, not God the Father.

What is a common name for the Father? Jehovah? Yet you say Jesus is
Jehovah, and yet Jesus is not God the Father. Again, your beliefs make
no sense.

>>
>> I have explained this to you again recently and in more detail, which does
>> not deviate from what you were shown over two decades ago.

Then neither one of us has changed in 2 decades. If that continues,
then one of us is going to bite the dust. (:>(

Sincerely James,
Terrorists.What
God thinks.
Go to jw.org
11/27/23


>> >
>> >
>> > Sincerely James,
>

[Robert]

On Nov 27, 2023, James wrote
(in article<8f54mit5vsf8vhq76...@4ax.com>):

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 17:11:49 -0700, No
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > one<no...@none.con>
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 10, 2023, James wrote

> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (in article<j4bbiih8kb6j4hcu25hl6pkauo5cj6kr8p@4ax.

What about this is untrue?

>
>
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Our bodies are not redeemed, only our spirits are at this time. On
> > > > > > > resurrection day the believer will rise with redeemed bodies.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What about the unbeliever, such as the ancient Aztecs and modern day
> > > > > > atheists, etc?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > According to the Bible, they will rise from their graves also:
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, and to hell as well.
> > > >
> > > > That's just what I said, because "hell" IS the "grave".
> > >
> > > You are not that stupid, you know that it is also the pit. And out of that
> > > pit to judgement, the white throne Judgement before Jesus/Jehovah, then
> > > sentenced to what is to befall them in the Lake of Fire and Brimstone. And
> > > Yes, the same Jehovah who opened the ground and swallowed up 23,000
> > > Israelis for their sins of idolatry and sexual perversion IIRC.
>
> Yes, God is all love (1 John 4:8), but is also a God of justice and
> will punish the wicked on His terms.

Because He IS God and the Heavenly Father gave Jesus/YHWH the authority for
final judgment. This is all throughout scripture so there should be no
surprise.

>
>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - New American Standard
> > > > > > Acts 24:15 having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves,
> > > > > > that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and
> > > > > > the wicked.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "AND THE WICKED". So don't cross them out of the picture yet. My God
> > > > > > is NOT a hellfire god, but a God of mercy and forgiveness. So even the
> > > > > > wicked will get another chance.
> > > > >
> > > > > Your god is a fictional god as you do not believe all his word, and you
> > > > > claim to follow a "man" and not any god.
> > > >
> > > > Where do you get that refuse from? Let me make the appropriate
> > > > corrections.
> > >
> > > From you, your statements, your disagreements with scripture that you
> > > ignore because it is not what you chose to believe.
>
> ??

You can play dumb with me, but God sees the thoughts and intents of your
heart.

>
>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > My God is Jehovah of the Bible. And since ALL Scripture is inspired of
> > > > God (2 Tim 3:16), I believe ALL the Bible. I follow Jehovah God and
> > > > His Son Jesus Christ, who is "a god".
> > >
> > > You put the “a” in front of god there, it has never been part of that
> > > verse, also Jehovah in the flesh IS Jesus, and "The Ancient one” of the
> > > OT is the Heavenly Father, who is Spirit.
>
> Yet a creed falsely says that Jesus and God are "coequal". The
> Athanasian Creed:

What do I care about a Creed? You have creeds whereby you disavow other
JW’s, etc.
Yet play games anyhow.

>
>
> "The Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost is all
> one: the glory equal, the majesty coeternal. . . . the Father is
> almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Ghost almighty. . . . So the
> Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet
> there are not three Gods, but one God. . . . In this Trinity none is
> afore or after other; none is greater or less than another. But the
> whole three persons are coeternal together, and coequal."
>
> The apostle Paul disagrees with them. Notice:
>
> -- Revised Standard
> 1 Corinthians 11:3 But I want you to understand that the head of
> every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head
> of Christ is God.

You are playing dumb again. You know that verse has no connection to your
false statement just above.

>
>
> > >
> > > Jhn 18:4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him,
> > > went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?
> > >
> > > Jhn 18:5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am.
> > > And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
> > >
> > > Jhn 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am, they went backward,
> > > and
> > > fell to the ground.
> > >
> > > Jhn 18:7 Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of
> > > Nazareth.
> > >
> > > Jhn 18:8 Jesus answered, I have told you that I am: if therefore ye seek
> > > me,
> > > let these go their way:
> > >
> > > YHWH = I am Yes, the Great I am, who divested himself of his Glory to be
> > > born
> > > a man, live and die as a man, yet never giving up who He rightfully was,
> > > God
> > > in the Flesh. His Father restored to him his former glory when he ascended
> > > back to heaven. It is HE that will be your judge.
>
> Jesus never said he was God. NEVER! The "I am" is just an expression,
> like "I am going to the store.
> Based on the way you interpret it, then is this centurion also God?

When Jesus said, “I am” all the centurions that were present fell over,
why?
Yes, It is an expression, of YHWH or do you now renounce him as well? I am
that I am. I will be what I will be.

>
>
> -- Revised Standard
> Matthew 8:8 But the centurion answered him, "Lord, I AM not worthy to
> have you come under my roof; but only say the word, and my servant
> will be healed. ("I AM" caps mine)
>
> And was Paul Also God?

¥ou are doing a great job of playing the "dumb card”. You know it and I
know it.

>
>
> - New Jerusalem with Apocrypha

Unsuitable for usage.

The most common lie you use.

>
>
> > >
> > > This same Jesus, for whom you claim to be a witness of, will deny you before
> > > His Heavenly Father, which means that you have condemned yourself to Hell
>
> Are you now a prophet? And can predict the future for a person?
> Also, "hell" in the Bible is the grave. (see Job 14:13)

Yes, it can be used for grave, as well as the “pit”, also found in Job.
You have been shown that, by myself, from scripture. Another intent of yours
to deceive others.

>
>
> > >
> > > Yes, this same Jesus who you just openly confessed before all that you have
> > > rejected him to believe the god of this world, satan.
>
> Nonsense. You know what God thinks of liars. (Pr 6:16-19)

You deny Jesus as God. You deny him as your saviour. And I know as well as
you that your father is the father of lies. Which is why you deny Jesus as
God. (Yet you try to skirt the issue by saying he is “a god”. Thus
signifying that he is supposedly the God of the JW’s, who you do not honor.

>
>
> > You even spoke with joy
> > > that you deny Him before all men who read this post of yours.
>
> It stands repeating. Nonsense. You know what God thinks of liars. (Pr
> 6:16-19)

And in your sinful heart you know that to be true and cannot shake that
knowledge of eternal death.

>
>
> > >
> > > Doing so, and confirming it before all men will now allow you to fulfill
> > > all
> > > forms of depravity in your private life which will then spill over to your
> > > public life and by doing so you will have exposed yourself to all. That is
> > > the way of sin and degradation.
>
> Dream on, dream on.

You already have proven it.

>
>
> > >
> > > Are you sure you wish to dwell there in pride?
>
> I am proud I am able to teach the Bible to others.

You teach the doctrines of the JW’s, not scripture.

>
>
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > And by the way, there is no "Lake of Fire and Brimstone" in the Bible.
> > > > It is just referred to as the "lake of fire".
> > >
> > > Rev 19:20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that
> > > wrought
> > > miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark
> > > of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast
> > > alive
> > > into a lakeof fire burning with brimstone.
>
> "with brimstone" is not in the real NT.

ROTFL, now you sound like Tesla.

>
>
> > >
> > > Rev 20:10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake offire and
> > > brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be
> > > tormented
> > > day and night for ever and ever.
>
> "with brimstone" is not in the real NT.

ROTFL, now you sound like Tesla.

>
>
> > >
> > > Rev 20:14And death and hell were cast into thelake offire. This is the
> > > second
> > > death.
>
> There you said it. The Lake of fire is not literal but MEANS THE
> SECOND DEATH.
>
> > >
> > > Rev 20:15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast

> > > into the lake offire.

>
> Which as you said means the "second death".

Not me. Scripture.

Others due as well, there are more than one word translated as Godhead. Told
and showed you that several times also.

Which is a false and misleading definition, thus confirming your lie about
believing all the Bible

>
>
> > > >
> > > > And you were correct when you said John 10:30 doesn't mean they were
> > > > one body, but means they are in total agreement.
> > >
> > > I have been telling you that for years, and so it is with the Godhead as
> > > well. Jesus said, I and my Father are one. In the same manner.
>
> And as I have said many times, it means they are in agreement, not in
> substance. If yours was the case, then all of Jesus followers are also
> ONE with God and Jesus. (see John 17:21,22)
>
> > >
> > > We who are constructed in their same Image and likeness, are we not Body,
> > > Soul, and Spirit?
>
> In some cases, yes. It all depends on the context of "soul" and
> "spirit". For example, Gen 2:7 shows that Adam WAS a soul, didn't have
> a soul. And Gen shows even fish are souls:

Pure and simply It says in Genesis that we are created in his image, as well
as it other portions of scripture.

[James]

Nothing.

>>
>>
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Our bodies are not redeemed, only our spirits are at this time. On
>> > > > > > > resurrection day the believer will rise with redeemed bodies.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > What about the unbeliever, such as the ancient Aztecs and modern day
>> > > > > > atheists, etc?
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > According to the Bible, they will rise from their graves also:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Yes, and to hell as well.
>> > > >
>> > > > That's just what I said, because "hell" IS the "grave".
>> > >
>> > > You are not that stupid, you know that it is also the pit. And out of that
>> > > pit to judgement, the white throne Judgement before Jesus/Jehovah, then
>> > > sentenced to what is to befall them in the Lake of Fire and Brimstone. And
>> > > Yes, the same Jehovah who opened the ground and swallowed up 23,000
>> > > Israelis for their sins of idolatry and sexual perversion IIRC.
>>
>> Yes, God is all love (1 John 4:8), but is also a God of justice and
>> will punish the wicked on His terms.
>
>Because He IS God and the Heavenly Father gave Jesus/YHWH the authority for
>final judgment. This is all throughout scripture so there should be no
>surprise.

Sorry, but Jesus is not YHWH. YHWH is Jehovah, God, the Father. Jesus
himself said he was "God's Son". Nowhere in the Scriptures does Jesus
ever say he was God. For one thing, no one could look at him without
dropping over dead as a doornail:

- Revised Standard
Exodus 33:20 But," he [God] said, "you cannot see my face; for man
shall not see me and live." [brackets mine]

>>
>>
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > - New American Standard
>> > > > > > Acts 24:15 having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves,
>> > > > > > that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and
>> > > > > > the wicked.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > "AND THE WICKED". So don't cross them out of the picture yet. My God
>> > > > > > is NOT a hellfire god, but a God of mercy and forgiveness. So even the
>> > > > > > wicked will get another chance.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Your god is a fictional god as you do not believe all his word, and you
>> > > > > claim to follow a "man" and not any god.
>> > > >
>> > > > Where do you get that refuse from? Let me make the appropriate
>> > > > corrections.
>> > >
>> > > From you, your statements, your disagreements with scripture that you
>> > > ignore because it is not what you chose to believe.
>>
>> ??
>
>You can play dumb with me, but God sees the thoughts and intents of your
>heart.

It's not good to call the Bible "dumb", since that is what I share
with others.

>>
>>
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > My God is Jehovah of the Bible. And since ALL Scripture is inspired of
>> > > > God (2 Tim 3:16), I believe ALL the Bible. I follow Jehovah God and
>> > > > His Son Jesus Christ, who is "a god".
>> > >
>> > > You put the “a” in front of god there, it has never been part of that
>> > > verse, also Jehovah in the flesh IS Jesus, and "The Ancient one” of the
>> > > OT is the Heavenly Father, who is Spirit.
>>
>> Yet a creed falsely says that Jesus and God are "coequal". The
>> Athanasian Creed:
>
>What do I care about a Creed? You have creeds whereby you disavow other
>JW’s, etc.
>Yet play games anyhow.

Prove your words if you can.

>
>>
>>
>> "The Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost is all
>> one: the glory equal, the majesty coeternal. . . . the Father is
>> almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Ghost almighty. . . . So the
>> Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet
>> there are not three Gods, but one God. . . . In this Trinity none is
>> afore or after other; none is greater or less than another. But the
>> whole three persons are coeternal together, and coequal."
>>
>> The apostle Paul disagrees with them. Notice:
>>
>> -- Revised Standard
>> 1 Corinthians 11:3 But I want you to understand that the head of
>> every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head
>> of Christ is God.
>
>You are playing dumb again. You know that verse has no connection to your
>false statement just above.

Everything I write I believe to be true. I have many faults, but lying
is not one of them.

>
>>
>>
>> > >
>> > > Jhn 18:4 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him,
>> > > went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?
>> > >
>> > > Jhn 18:5 They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am.
>> > > And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
>> > >
>> > > Jhn 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am, they went backward,
>> > > and
>> > > fell to the ground.
>> > >
>> > > Jhn 18:7 Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of
>> > > Nazareth.
>> > >
>> > > Jhn 18:8 Jesus answered, I have told you that I am: if therefore ye seek
>> > > me,
>> > > let these go their way:
>> > >
>> > > YHWH = I am Yes, the Great I am, who divested himself of his Glory to be
>> > > born
>> > > a man, live and die as a man, yet never giving up who He rightfully was,
>> > > God
>> > > in the Flesh. His Father restored to him his former glory when he ascended
>> > > back to heaven. It is HE that will be your judge.
>>
>> Jesus never said he was God. NEVER! The "I am" is just an expression,
>> like "I am going to the store.
>> Based on the way you interpret it, then is this centurion also God?
>
>When Jesus said, “I am” all the centurions that were present fell over,
>why?

Because they were probably drunk. (:>))

>Yes, It is an expression, of YHWH or do you now renounce him as well? I am
>that I am. I will be what I will be.

That is clearly God. Jesus never said it near that way.

>
>>
>>
>> -- Revised Standard
>> Matthew 8:8 But the centurion answered him, "Lord, I AM not worthy to
>> have you come under my roof; but only say the word, and my servant
>> will be healed. ("I AM" caps mine)
>>
>> And was Paul Also God?
>

>Ąou are doing a great job of playing the "dumb card”. You know it and I
>know it.

Just like Jesus said "I am" so did Paul. So I ask, did that make him
God also? (you can't have your cake.....)

>>
>>
>> - New Jerusalem with Apocrypha
>
>Unsuitable for usage.

All Bibles are unsuitable at some Scriptures, and suitable at others.
For example, here is the New Jerusalem Bible at 1 John 4:8,

- New Jerusalem with Apocrypha

1 John 4:8 Whoever fails to love does not know God,
because God is love.

Most would call that a suitable verse.

I don't lie. It was a lie that doomed all mankind. God hates liars.
(Pr 6:16-19)

Everything I say I believe to be the truth. I can be mistaken, but
that doesn't make me a liar. Look up the definition of a "lie".

>>
>>
>> > >
>> > > This same Jesus, for whom you claim to be a witness of, will deny you before
>> > > His Heavenly Father, which means that you have condemned yourself to Hell
>>
>> Are you now a prophet? And can predict the future for a person?
>> Also, "hell" in the Bible is the grave. (see Job 14:13)
>
>Yes, it can be used for grave, as well as the “pit”, also found in Job.
>You have been shown that, by myself, from scripture. Another intent of yours
>to deceive others.

To deceive is to purposely lie about something. I don't lie, thus I
don't deceive. Everything I say I believe is true facts.

>>
>>
>> > >
>> > > Yes, this same Jesus who you just openly confessed before all that you have
>> > > rejected him to believe the god of this world, satan.
>>
>> Nonsense. You know what God thinks of liars. (Pr 6:16-19)
>
>You deny Jesus as God. You deny him as your saviour.

You know better than that. Just read JW literature for proof.

>And I know as well as
>you that your father is the father of lies.

You really need to read and meditate on Proverbs 6:16-19. You don't
want God to HATE you, do you?

>Which is why you deny Jesus as
>God. (Yet you try to skirt the issue by saying he is “a god”. Thus
>signifying that he is supposedly the God of the JW’s, who you do not honor.

Again, You really need to read and meditate on Proverbs 6:16-19. You
don't want God to HATE you, do you?

>
>>
>>
>> > You even spoke with joy
>> > > that you deny Him before all men who read this post of yours.
>>
>> It stands repeating. Nonsense. You know what God thinks of liars. (Pr
>> 6:16-19)
>
>And in your sinful heart you know that to be true and cannot shake that

>knowledge of eternal deatYes, the Bible teaches eternal death for the wicked, not being barbaqued in a sadistic hellfire.

>>
>>
>> > >
>> > > Doing so, and confirming it before all men will now allow you to fulfill
>> > > all
>> > > forms of depravity in your private life which will then spill over to your
>> > > public life and by doing so you will have exposed yourself to all. That is
>> > > the way of sin and degradation.
>>
>> Dream on, dream on.
>
>You already have proven it.
>>
>>
>> > >
>> > > Are you sure you wish to dwell there in pride?
>>
>> I am proud I am able to teach the Bible to others.
>
>You teach the doctrines of the JW’s, not scripture.

Again read Pr 6:16-19.

>
>>
>>
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > And by the way, there is no "Lake of Fire and Brimstone" in the Bible.
>> > > > It is just referred to as the "lake of fire".
>> > >
>> > > Rev 19:20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that
>> > > wrought
>> > > miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark
>> > > of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast
>> > > alive
>> > > into a lakeof fire burning with brimstone.
>>
>> "with brimstone" is not in the real NT.
>
>ROTFL, now you sound like Tesla.

Then show me.

>
>>
>>
>> > >
>> > > Rev 20:10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake offire and
>> > > brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be
>> > > tormented
>> > > day and night for ever and ever.
>>
>> "with brimstone" is not in the real NT.
>
>ROTFL, now you sound like Tesla.
>
>>
>>
>> > >
>> > > Rev 20:14And death and hell were cast into thelake offire. This is the
>> > > second
>> > > death.
>>
>> There you said it. The Lake of fire is not literal but MEANS THE
>> SECOND DEATH.
>>
>> > >
>> > > Rev 20:15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast
>> > > into the lake offire.
>>
>> Which as you said means the "second death".
>
>Not me. Scripture.

Nitpicking can be amusing, yes?

I do believe all the Bible. (2 Tim 3:16)
Strong's Concordance says about Ro 1:20 the word for "Godship" is
"theiotes". which means:
"Strong's Ref. # 2305

Romanized theiotes
Pronounced thi-ot'-ace

from GSN2304; divinity (abstractly):"

And what is the definition of "Godship"?

"GODSHIP definition in American English
Collins Dictionary
https://www.collinsdictionary.com › dictionary › gods...
GODSHIP definition: the quality or character of a god; divinity"

Thus the NWT of "Godship" is correct.

>>
>>
>> > > >
>> > > > And you were correct when you said John 10:30 doesn't mean they were
>> > > > one body, but means they are in total agreement.
>> > >
>> > > I have been telling you that for years, and so it is with the Godhead as
>> > > well. Jesus said, I and my Father are one. In the same manner.
>>
>> And as I have said many times, it means they are in agreement, not in
>> substance. If yours was the case, then all of Jesus followers are also
>> ONE with God and Jesus. (see John 17:21,22)
>>
>> > >
>> > > We who are constructed in their same Image and likeness, are we not Body,
>> > > Soul, and Spirit?
>>
>> In some cases, yes. It all depends on the context of "soul" and
>> "spirit". For example, Gen 2:7 shows that Adam WAS a soul, didn't have
>> a soul. And Gen shows even fish are souls:
>
>Pure and simply It says in Genesis that we are created in his image, as well
>as it other portions of scripture.

And just as fish are "souls" (nephesh) when Adam was created he
"became" a soul when he started to breath, wasn't 'given' a soul.

Sincerely James,
Men with panic disorders.
What can help?
Go to jw.org
12/14/23