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Jesus = Michael the archangel?

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James

unread,
Oct 7, 2023, 1:43:21 PM10/7/23
to
Jesus = Michael the archangel?

Don't call the men in white coats yet. Hear it out.

Facts: There is apparently many “prince” angels, but only ONE
archangel, Michael. And only one “great prince”. Dan 12:1a,

“At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will
arise.“ (NIV)

The name Michael in reference to the archangel is introduced in the
book of Daniel Chapter 10. In Daniel, he is referred to as "Michael,
your prince." (NIV) and "At that time Michael, the great prince who
protects your people, will arise." (Dan 10:21; 12:1; NIV) Thus Michael
is the prince of Daniel's people, the Israelites.

This connection to Daniel's people is an indicator that this angel is
the same powerful angel that led the Israelites out of Egypt. (Ex
23:20, 21, 23; 32:34; 33:2) Some angel did, right? So it could have
been Michael.

But is there more evidence? Yes, the powerful angel Michael had a
dispute with Satan about Moses' body. (Jude 9) Satan may very well
wanted to trap the Israelites into relic worship, but Michael won and
Moses body ended up in an unmarked grave. (De 34:6) Thus this Michael
was very interested in the affairs of the Israelites.

Jude refers to Michael as an archangel. The Bible doesn't name any
other archangels. And the Bible never uses the word archangel in the
plural form, indicating more than one exists. Thus this "Michael" has
a unique position with God.

According to "Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament" the
word "Archangel" means "Chief of the angels"; or as others say, "Chief
angel". Other than God, the only other persons in the Bible that have
authority over angels are Michael and Jesus. (Mt 25:31)

The Apostle Paul adds further information by connecting the word
"archangel " with Jesus, in 1 Th 4:16,

"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command,
with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and
the dead in Christ will rise first." (NIV)

The scripture literally says "in voice of archangel" . It takes an
archangel to have the voice of an archangel. And if there is only one
archangel or "Chief angel", then it would have to be Jesus.

Jesus is Lord of Lords and King of Kings and over all creation, so
copying a subordinate angelic voice would not be appropriate here. (Re
19:16) Also, notice the Lord had the archangel's voice and with the
"trumpet call of God" then a resurrection of the dead will occur. No
other heavenly creature has been given the authority over the dead
except Jesus, who was given the keys of hades and death. (Rev 1:18) It
wouldn't be appropriate for Paul to compare Jesus' voice with a
subordinate angel who does not have authority over the dead. Jesus'
voice would be completely superior to every other heavenly creatures'
voice.

So was Jesus Michael the archangel? The evidence is there. Some may
say yes, and some no. It's your decision.

Sincerely James
Find the absolute truth
10/7/23
Go to jw.org




servant

unread,
Oct 7, 2023, 6:05:04 PM10/7/23
to

Friend james; by whom and when was this recycled angel theory first
proposed?

Also, how does this theory play into the 1954 flip flop in jw vatican
doctrine and practice to stop worshiping Christ?

Could you comment on this discussion ith a jw devotee on the question? How
would you have said/done any thing different? What is your response to the
many scriptures cited that contridicts the jw vatican's theory:

Is Jesus the Archangel Michael?

https://www.str.org/w/is-jesus-the-archangel-michael-

servant

unread,
Oct 7, 2023, 6:07:57 PM10/7/23
to
What does Hebrews 1 reveal as to God/father and Christ/son and the angels:

1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance
obtained a more excellent name than they.

1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son,
this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he
shall be to me a Son?

1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he
saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his
ministers a flame of fire.

1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever:
a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

No one

unread,
Oct 7, 2023, 7:30:25 PM10/7/23
to
On Oct 7, 2023, James wrote
(in article<ek53ii9vl3v537opj...@4ax.com>):

> Jesus = Michael the archangel?
>
> Don't call the men in white coats yet. Hear it out.
>
> Facts: There is apparently many “prince” angels, but only ONE
> archangel, Michael. And only one “great prince”. Dan 12:1a,
>
> “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will
> arise.“ (NIV)
>
> The name Michael in reference to the archangel is introduced in the
> book of Daniel Chapter 10. In Daniel, he is referred to as "Michael,
> your prince." (NIV) and "At that time Michael, the great prince who
> protects your people, will arise." (Dan 10:21; 12:1; NIV) Thus Michael
> is the prince of Daniel's people, the Israelites.

Dan 10:13But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty
days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I
remained there with the kings of Persia.

Michael is What? One of what? Why do you intend to deceive others?
>
> This connection to Daniel's people is an indicator that this angel is
> the same powerful angel that led the Israelites out of Egypt. (Ex
> 23:20, 21, 23; 32:34; 33:2) Some angel did, right? So it could have
> been Michael.

Did you receive this knowledge from ChatGpt or some other AI entity?
It could have been any angel of the Lords.

>
> But is there more evidence? Yes, the powerful angel Michael had a
> dispute with Satan about Moses' body. (Jude 9) Satan may very well
> wanted to trap the Israelites into relic worship, but Michael won and
> Moses body ended up in an unmarked grave. (De 34:6) Thus this Michael
> was very interested in the affairs of the Israelites.

Michal was one of the angels, what evidence you showed here does not support
any of your other guesses and suppositions.
>
> Jude refers to Michael as an archangel. The Bible doesn't name any
> other archangels. And the Bible never uses the word archangel in the
> plural form, indicating more than one exists. Thus this "Michael" has
> a unique position with God.

Then you better refer to the verses you quoted at the fore, which I C&P for
the edification of all.
It shows your folly.

>
> According to "Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament" the
> word "Archangel" means "Chief of the angels"; or as others say, "Chief
> angel". Other than God, the only other persons in the Bible that have
> authority over angels are Michael and Jesus. (Mt 25:31)

It does not say that at all.

Mat 25:31

31When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with
him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Why do you feel at liberty to lie, could it have been given you by the father
of lies?

>
> The Apostle Paul adds further information by connecting the word
> "archangel " with Jesus, in 1 Th 4:16,

“For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the
voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ
shall rise first:” (1Th 4:16)

What angel or angels in heaven have trumpets to blow?

Read, see, hear the word of the Lord.

Rev 8:2And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were
given seven trumpets.

Rev 8:6And the seven angels which had the seventrumpets prepared themselves
to sound.

Rev 8:13And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven,
saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by
reason of the other voices of thetrumpet of the three angels, which are yet
to sound!

Rev 9:14Saying to the sixth angel which had thetrumpet, Loose the four angels
which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

>
>
> "For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command,
> with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and
> the dead in Christ will rise first." (NIV)
>
> The scripture literally says "in voice of archangel" . It takes an
> archangel to have the voice of an archangel. And if there is only one
> archangel or "Chief angel", then it would have to be Jesus.

Again you repeat a falsehood. See Dan 10:13 as posted above.

>
> Jesus is Lord of Lords and King of Kings and over all creation, so
> copying a subordinate angelic voice would not be appropriate here. (Re
> 19:16) Also, notice the Lord had the archangel's voice and with the
> "trumpet call of God"

Yet you declare that Jesus is not God. Do you speak with the forked tongue of
a serpent?

> then a resurrection of the dead will occur.

You are referencing it the final resurrection at the end of the millennium

However, those that are in Christ...

1Th 4:15-17

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive
and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are
asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the
voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ
shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them
in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the
Lord.

And this happens at the end of this age, the age of the gentiles 1007 years
before the one you speak of.

> No
> other heavenly creature has been given the authority over the dead
> except Jesus, who was given the keys of hades and death. (Rev 1:18)

It says nothing about him having been given those keys.

“I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore,
Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.” (Rev 1:18)

> It wouldn't be appropriate for Paul to compare Jesus' voice with a
> subordinate angel who does not have authority over the dead. Jesus'
> voice would be completely superior to every other heavenly creatures'
> voice.
>
>
> So was Jesus Michael the archangel? The evidence is there. Some may
> say yes, and some no. It's your decision.
>
> Sincerely James
Far, far, better to believe the Word of God, than your evil misdirections and
claims.

James

unread,
Oct 9, 2023, 8:12:19 AM10/9/23
to
For servants readers:

Vs 8 uses the wrong translation:. It suggests Jesus is God, which he
is not (see John 14:28) Notice:

The following Scripture is in their Bible, brackets and all:

-- New Revised Standard with Apocrypha
Hebrews 1:8 But of the Son he says,
"Your throne, O God, is {Or [God is your throne]} forever and ever,
and the righteous scepter is the scepter of your {Other ancient
authorities read [his]} kingdom.

(Hebrews 1:8) But about the Son, he says: 敵od is your throne forever
and ever, and the scepter of your Kingdom is the scepter of
uprightness. (NWT)

Sincerely James
Find the absolute truth
10/9/23
Go to jw.org




No one

unread,
Oct 9, 2023, 11:55:53 AM10/9/23
to
On Oct 9, 2023, James wrote
(in article<vgi5iid348fsggdvs...@4ax.com>):

For JW readers;
Not the deceptive lies of that organization and for this reason they are well
known as a cult.

The Godhead is, as one.

Joh 17:11

11And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come
to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given
me, that they may be one, as we are.

"That they may be one, as we are." Get it James? How are you going to deny
this?

God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
V8 below is the truth of Gods word. Yet see the deception of the evil one
that works within the JW org.

Mat 10:33

33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my
Father which is in heaven.

Do you really what this truth to be applied to your eternal soul? For all who
are denied will reside in the Lake of Fire and Brimstone when the time for
mankind on this earth is up.

> Vs 8 uses the wrong translation:. It suggests Jesus is God, which he
> is not (see John 14:28) Notice:
>
> The following Scripture is in their Bible, brackets and all:
>
> -- New Revised Standard with Apocrypha
> Hebrews 1:8 But of the Son he says,
> "Your throne, O God, is {Or [God is your throne]} forever and ever,
> and the righteous scepter is the scepter of your {Other ancient
> authorities read [his]} kingdom.
>
> (Hebrews 1:8) But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne forever

servant

unread,
Oct 9, 2023, 12:59:10 PM10/9/23
to

>>What does Hebrews 1 reveal as to God/father and Christ/son and the angels:
>>
>>1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance
>>obtained a more excellent name than they.
>>
>> 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son,
>>this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he
>> shall be to me a Son?
>>
>>1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he
>>saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
>>
>> 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his
>>ministers a flame of fire.
>>
>> 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever:
>>a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Yup, no Michael to be found; speaking of His son Christ"all angels to
worship and be subjectHim", no?>

Friend james tries out a rotely learned jw vatican idea/excuse:

>Vs 8 uses the wrong translation:. It suggests Jesus is God, which he
>is not (see John 14:28)

The jw vatican translation is correct? Is that in spite of the fact *NONE*
of the iny jw vatican group doing the "translation" knew greek/hebrew? Now
that special?

James

unread,
Oct 10, 2023, 4:03:09 PM10/10/23
to
For readers of servant:

The EVIDENCE says otherwise.

If the JW translators were bumbling idiots in Greek and Hebrew, why
did Bible scholars praise their NWT translation? They should have
called it a joke instead:

"For example, the Andover Newton Quarterly of January 1963 said: “The
translation of the New Testament [NWT]is evidence of the presence in
the movement of scholars qualified to deal intelligently with the many
problems of Biblical translation.”" (W99,1015,p.29)

"Dr. Benjamin Kedar, a Hebrew scholar in Israel, made a similar
comment concerning the New World Translation. In 1989 he said: “This
work reflects an honest endeavor to achieve an understanding of the
text that is as accurate as possible. . . . I have never discovered in
the New World Translation any biased intent to read something into the
text that it does not contain.”" (from wol.jw.org)

And on and on.

Best to get info from a truthful web page, than a lying one.

Sincerely James
Be mentally healthy
10/10/23
Go to jw.org

No one

unread,
Oct 10, 2023, 8:11:52 PM10/10/23
to
On Oct 10, 2023, James wrote
(in article<j4bbiih8kb6j4hcu2...@4ax.com>):

> If the JW translators were bumbling idiots in Greek and Hebrew, why
> did Bible scholars praise their NWT translation? They should have
> called it a joke instead:

A carefully constructed lie. The "Bible scholars" were JW, notice the word
"their" NWT Translation?

James

unread,
Oct 11, 2023, 11:38:57 AM10/11/23
to
Nice try. They were no more JW's than you are.

James

unread,
Oct 11, 2023, 11:51:42 AM10/11/23
to
On Mon, 09 Oct 2023 08:55:49 -0700, No one <no...@none.con> wrote:

>On Oct 9, 2023, James wrote
>(in article<vgi5iid348fsggdvs...@4ax.com>):
>
>For JW readers;
>Not the deceptive lies of that organization and for this reason they are well
>known as a cult.
>
>The Godhead is, as one.

"Godhead"? Let's see what Strong's Concordance says that Greek word is
there:

"Strong's Ref. # 2305

Romanized theiotes
Pronounced thi-ot'-ace

from GSN2304; divinity (abstractly):"

Thus it means "divinity ", not Godhead. And Romans 1:20 is speaking
about God.

First the KJV:

-- King James
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the
world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,
even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Now notice some other translations:

-- American Standard
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the
world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are
made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be
without excuse:

-- Living Bible
Romans 1:20 Since earliest times men have seen the earth and sky and
all God made, and have known of his existence and great eternal power.
So they will have no excuse [when they stand before God at Judgment
Day ].

-- Revised Standard
Romans 1:20 Ever since the creation of the world his invisible
nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly
perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without
excuse;

-- International English
Romans 1:20 Since the beginning of the world, the unseen qualities of
God--His unseen power and His divinity--could be clearly seen and
understood from what God made. They have no excuse.

-- New American Standard
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible
attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly
seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are
without excuse.

-- New Jerusalem with Apocrypha
Romans 1:20 ever since the creation of the world, the invisible
existence of God and his everlasting power have been clearly seen by
the mind's understanding of created things. And so these people have
no excuse:

-- New American with Apocrypha
Romans 1:20 Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible
attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be
understood and perceived in what he has made. As a result, they have
no excuse;

-- New Revised Standard with Apocrypha
Romans 1:20 Ever since the creation of the world his eternal power and
divine nature, invisible though they are, have been understood and
seen through the things he has made. So they are without excuse;

-- Darby's Bible
Romans 1:20 -- for from the world's creation the invisible things of
him are perceived, being apprehended by the mind through the things
that are made, both his eternal power and divinity, -- so as to render
them inexcusable.

-- Weymouth's New Testament
Romans 1:20 For, from the very creation of the world, His invisible
perfections - namely His eternal power and divine nature - have been
rendered intelligible and clearly visible by His works, so that these
men are without excuse.

New Living Translation
Romans 1:20 From the time the world was created, people have seen the
earth and sky and all that God made. They can clearly see his
invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature. So they have
no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God.

-- International Standard Version
Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world his invisible
attributes-his eternal power and divine nature-have been understood
and observed by what he made, so that people are without excuse.

-- William's NewTestament
Romans 1:20 Forever since the creation of the world, His invisible
characteristics<s> -- His eternal power and divine nature -- have been
made intelligible and clearly visible by His works. So they are
without excuse,

-- Montgomery New Testament
Romans 1:20 For ever since the creation of the world his invisible
nature, even his everlasting power and divinity, has been clearly
seen, being perceived through the things that are made. So they have
no excuse.

Sincerely James
Be mentally healthy
10/10/23
Go to jw.org






>
>Joh 17:11
>
>11And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come
>to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given
>me, that they may be one, as we are.
>
>"That they may be one, as we are." Get it James? How are you going to deny
>this?
>
>God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
>V8 below is the truth of Gods word. Yet see the deception of the evil one
>that works within the JW org.
>
>Mat 10:33
>
>33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my
>Father which is in heaven.
>
>Do you really what this truth to be applied to your eternal soul? For all who
>are denied will reside in the Lake of Fire and Brimstone when the time for
>mankind on this earth is up.
>
>> Vs 8 uses the wrong translation:. It suggests Jesus is God, which he
>> is not (see John 14:28) Notice:
>>
>> The following Scripture is in their Bible, brackets and all:
>>
>> -- New Revised Standard with Apocrypha
>> Hebrews 1:8 But of the Son he says,
>> "Your throne, O God, is {Or [God is your throne]} forever and ever,
>> and the righteous scepter is the scepter of your {Other ancient
>> authorities read [his]} kingdom.
>>
>> (Hebrews 1:8) But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne forever

James

unread,
Oct 11, 2023, 11:59:30 AM10/11/23
to
On 07 Oct 2023 21:53:43 GMT, servant wrote:

>
>Friend james; by whom and when was this recycled angel theory first
>proposed?
>
>Also, how does this theory play into the 1954 flip flop in jw vatican
>doctrine and practice to stop worshiping Christ?
>
>Could you comment on this discussion ith a jw devotee on the question? How
>would you have said/done any thing different? What is your response to the
>many scriptures cited that contridicts the jw vatican's theory:
>
>Is Jesus the Archangel Michael?

For servants readers:

True the Bible doesn't come right out and say 'Jesus is Michael the
archangel'. But there is a lot of circumstantial evidence that points
in that direction.

Here is a posting again:
Sincerely James
Be mentally healthy
10/10/23
Go to jw.org








>
>https://www.str.org/w/is-jesus-the-archangel-michael-

James

unread,
Oct 11, 2023, 12:05:26 PM10/11/23
to
The Bible says what it says about Jesus and Michael. Take it or leave
it.I stand by my posting.

No one

unread,
Oct 12, 2023, 2:36:35 AM10/12/23
to
On Oct 11, 2023, James wrote
(in article<fagdiit96p6t2ucee...@4ax.com>):

> On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 17:11:49 -0700, No one<no...@none.con> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 10, 2023, James wrote
> > (in article<j4bbiih8kb6j4hcu2...@4ax.com>):
> >
> > > If the JW translators were bumbling idiots in Greek and Hebrew, why
> > > did Bible scholars praise their NWT translation? They should have
> > > called it a joke instead:
> >
> > A carefully constructed lie. The "Bible scholars" were JW, notice the word
> > "their" NWT Translation?
>
> Nice try. They were no more JW's than you are.

The language used there says otherwise.
>
> Sincerely James

No one

unread,
Oct 12, 2023, 2:51:05 AM10/12/23
to
On Oct 11, 2023, James wrote
(in article<mjgdii57k57o8ivl8...@4ax.com>):

> On Mon, 09 Oct 2023 08:55:49 -0700, No one<no...@none.con> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 9, 2023, James wrote
> > (in article<vgi5iid348fsggdvs...@4ax.com>):
> >
> > For JW readers;
> > Not the deceptive lies of that organization and for this reason they are
> > well
> > known as a cult.
> >
> > The Godhead is, as one.
>
> "Godhead"? Let's see what Strong's Concordance says that Greek word is
> there:
>
> "Strong's Ref. # 2305
>
> Romanized theiotes
> Pronounced thi-ot'-ace

theiotēs

Thayer Definition:

1) divinity, divine nature

theios thi'-os

From G2316; godlike (neuter as noun, divinity): - divine, godhead.

Acts 17:29
None of these used romanize speech.

>
>
> from GSN2304; divinity (abstractly):"
>
> Thus it means "divinity ", not Godhead. And Romans 1:20 is speaking
> about God.

How come I am a partaker of the Divine image of God?

Why me and other members of the ekklesia, and not the JW?

>
>
> First the KJV:
>
> -- King James
> Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the
> world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made,
> even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
>
>
>
> >
> > Joh 17:11
> >
> > 11And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come
> > to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given
> > me, that they may be one, as we are.
> >
> > "That they may be one, as we are." Get it James? How are you going to deny
> > this?
> >
> > God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.
> > V8 below is the truth of Gods word. Yet see the deception of the evil one
> > that works within the JW org.
> >
> > Mat 10:33
> >
> > 33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my
> > Father which is in heaven.
> >
> > Do you really what this truth to be applied to your eternal soul? For all
> > who
> > are denied will reside in the Lake of Fire and Brimstone when the time for
> > mankind on this earth is up.
> >
> > > Vs 8 uses the wrong translation:. It suggests Jesus is God, which he
> > > is not (see John 14:28) Notice:
> > >
> > > The following Scripture is in their Bible, brackets and all:
> > >
> > > -- New Revised Standard with Apocrypha
> > > Hebrews 1:8 But of the Son he says,
> > > "Your throne, O God, is {Or [God is your throne]} forever and ever,
> > > and the righteous scepter is the scepter of your {Other ancient
> > > authorities read [his]} kingdom.
> > >
> > > (Hebrews 1:8) But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne forever

James

unread,
Oct 12, 2023, 9:16:23 AM10/12/23
to
Your OPINION is noted./

Sincerely James
Be mentally healthy
10/12/23
Go to jw.org

>>
>> Sincerely James

James

unread,
Oct 12, 2023, 9:36:20 AM10/12/23
to
On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 23:51:02 -0700, No one <no...@none.con> wrote:

>On Oct 11, 2023, James wrote
>(in article<mjgdii57k57o8ivl8...@4ax.com>):
>
>> On Mon, 09 Oct 2023 08:55:49 -0700, No one<no...@none.con> wrote:
>>
>> > On Oct 9, 2023, James wrote
>> > (in article<vgi5iid348fsggdvs...@4ax.com>):
>> >
>> > For JW readers;
>> > Not the deceptive lies of that organization and for this reason they are
>> > well
>> > known as a cult.
>> >
>> > The Godhead is, as one.
>>
>> "Godhead"? Let's see what Strong's Concordance says that Greek word is
>> there:
>>
>> "Strong's Ref. # 2305
>>
>> Romanized theiotes
>> Pronounced thi-ot'-ace
>
>theiote?s
>
>Thayer Definition:
>
>1) divinity, divine nature
>
>theios thi'-os
>
>From G2316; godlike (neuter as noun, divinity): - divine, godhead.
>
>Acts 17:29
>None of these used romanize speech.
>
>>
>>
>> from GSN2304; divinity (abstractly):"
>>
>> Thus it means "divinity ", not Godhead. And Romans 1:20 is speaking
>> about God.
>
>How come I am a partaker of the Divine image of God?

Because all humans were made in God's image.

>
>Why me and other members of the ekklesia, and not the JW?

?? Be more precise.

Sincerely James
Be mentally healthy
10/12/23
Go to jw.org
>> > > (Hebrews 1:8) But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne forever

No one

unread,
Oct 13, 2023, 2:57:05 AM10/13/23
to
On Oct 12, 2023, James wrote
(in article<9bsfiipihk04d8m26...@4ax.com>):

> On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 23:36:32 -0700, No one<no...@none.con> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 11, 2023, James wrote
> > (in article<fagdiit96p6t2ucee...@4ax.com>):
> >
> > > On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 17:11:49 -0700, No one<no...@none.con> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Oct 10, 2023, James wrote
> > > > (in article<j4bbiih8kb6j4hcu2...@4ax.com>):
> > > >
> > > > > If the JW translators were bumbling idiots in Greek and Hebrew, why
> > > > > did Bible scholars praise their NWT translation? They should have
> > > > > called it a joke instead:
> > > >
> > > > A carefully constructed lie. The "Bible scholars" were JW, notice the word
> > > > "their" NWT Translation?
> > >
> > > Nice try. They were no more JW's than you are.
> >
> > The language used there says otherwise.
>
> Your OPINION is noted./

If so it will stick with you for a very long time.

No one

unread,
Oct 13, 2023, 2:58:09 AM10/13/23
to
On Oct 12, 2023, James wrote
(in article<odtfii5glslsiuukp...@4ax.com>):
Than the word of God? Get real.
> > > > > (Hebrews 1:8) But about the Son, he says: “God is your throne

No one

unread,
Oct 13, 2023, 2:59:50 AM10/13/23
to
On Oct 11, 2023, James wrote
(in article<5ohdiidhjnj3ib1md...@4ax.com>):
I stand by the Word of God. Not that of a cultist.

James

unread,
Oct 14, 2023, 12:16:42 PM10/14/23
to
False teachings don't stick with me very long.

Sincerely James
Be mentally healthy
10/14/23

No one

unread,
Oct 15, 2023, 6:37:44 PM10/15/23
to
On Oct 14, 2023, James wrote
(in article<jlflii5n6a76l1e7j...@4ax.com>):

> On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 23:57:01 -0700, No one<no...@none.con> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 12, 2023, James wrote
> > (in article<9bsfiipihk04d8m26...@4ax.com>):
> >
> > > On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 23:36:32 -0700, No one<no...@none.con> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Oct 11, 2023, James wrote
> > > > (in article<fagdiit96p6t2ucee...@4ax.com>):
> > > >
> > > > > On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 17:11:49 -0700, No one<no...@none.con> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Oct 10, 2023, James wrote
> > > > > > (in article<j4bbiih8kb6j4hcu2...@4ax.com>):
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > If the JW translators were bumbling idiots in Greek and Hebrew, why
> > > > > > > did Bible scholars praise their NWT translation? They should have
> > > > > > > called it a joke instead:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A carefully constructed lie. The "Bible scholars" were JW, notice the
> > > > > > word "their" NWT Translation?
> > > > >
> > > > > Nice try. They were no more JW's than you are.
> > > >
> > > > The language used there says otherwise.
> > >
> > > Your OPINION is noted./
> >
> > If so it will stick with you for a very long time.
>
> False teachings don't stick with me very long.

Now that is a lie. How long have you been a JW?

And why is Jesus your current center point and not Jehovah?

> Sincerely James

James

unread,
Oct 17, 2023, 12:21:23 PM10/17/23
to
Mucho years.
>
>And why is Jesus your current center point and not Jehovah?

They both always are. Why such a question? People change their
"current center point" all the time.

Sincerely James
Can all wars be stopped?
10/17/23

James

unread,
Oct 17, 2023, 3:12:11 PM10/17/23
to
So do I. (2 Tim 3:16)

Sincerely James
Can all wars be stopped?
10/17/23
Go to jw.org


>
>>
>>

No one

unread,
Oct 17, 2023, 5:15:11 PM10/17/23
to
On Oct 17, 2023, James wrote
(in article<ouctiipcejtvp0fkv...@4ax.com>):

> On Sun, 15 Oct 2023 15:37:40 -0700, No one<no...@none.con> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 14, 2023, James wrote
> > (in article<jlflii5n6a76l1e7j...@4ax.com>):
> >
> > > On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 23:57:01 -0700, No one<no...@none.con> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Oct 12, 2023, James wrote
> > > > (in article<9bsfiipihk04d8m26...@4ax.com>):
> > > >
> > > > > On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 23:36:32 -0700, No one<no...@none.con> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Oct 11, 2023, James wrote
> > > > > > (in article<fagdiit96p6t2ucee...@4ax.com>):
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 17:11:49 -0700, No one<no...@none.con> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Oct 10, 2023, James wrote
> > > > > > > > (in article<j4bbiih8kb6j4hcu2...@4ax.com>):
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If the JW translators were bumbling idiots in Greek and Hebrew, why
> > > > > > > > > did Bible scholars praise their NWT translation? They should have
> > > > > > > > > called it a joke instead:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A carefully constructed lie. The "Bible scholars" were JW, notice the
> > > > > > > > word "their" NWT Translation?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Nice try. They were no more JW's than you are.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The language used there says otherwise.
> > > > >
> > > > > Your OPINION is noted./
> > > >
> > > > If so it will stick with you for a very long time.
> > >
> > > False teachings don't stick with me very long.
> >
> > Now that is a lie. How long have you been a JW?
>
> Mucho years.

It is Mucho Anos
>
> >
> > And why is Jesus your current center point and not Jehovah?
>
> They both always are. Why such a question? People change their
> "current center point" all the time.

Yet you do not change the title of your cult?
>
>
> Sincerely James


No one

unread,
Oct 17, 2023, 7:09:32 PM10/17/23
to
On Oct 17, 2023, James wrote
(in article<d2ntiidocmive8ovm...@4ax.com>):
“That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good
works.” (2Ti 3:17, KJV)

You do not fit that criteria, according to your words.

NightBulb.net

unread,
Oct 18, 2023, 9:14:46 PM10/18/23
to
So you mean to say that popular opinion is the measuring stick of truth?

> "For example, the Andover Newton Quarterly of January 1963 said: “The
> translation of the New Testament [NWT]is evidence of the presence in
> the movement of scholars qualified to deal intelligently with the many
> problems of Biblical translation.”" (W99,1015,p.29)
>
> "Dr. Benjamin Kedar, a Hebrew scholar in Israel, made a similar
> comment concerning the New World Translation. In 1989 he said: “This
> work reflects an honest endeavor to achieve an understanding of the
> text that is as accurate as possible. . . . I have never discovered in
> the New World Translation any biased intent to read something into the
> text that it does not contain.”" (from wol.jw.org)

He should have looked a little harder. The bias is obvious.

> And on and on.
>
> Best to get info from a truthful web page, than a lying one.

Your cult says anything that uncovers its lies is a lie.

--

NightBulb | https://nightbulb.net | Flip the night switch.


NightBulb.net

unread,
Oct 18, 2023, 11:58:09 PM10/18/23
to
On 07 Oct 2023 22:07:55 GMT
servant wrote:

> What does Hebrews 1 reveal as to God/father and Christ/son and the
> angels:
>
> 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by
> inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

The "angels" means the prophets who came before Jesus Christ. It is not
in reference to supernatural beings. All the prophets are angels.
"Angel" means messenger, envoy, ambassador. The Apostle is telling
us that Jesus is higher in rank and authority than all the prophets. He
is NOT talking about supernatural beings. If you want to go that route
then we are all supernatural beings, as our minds are spirit, breathed
into existence by God. Try not to be a cherry-picking raisin-splitter.

> 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my
> Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a
> Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

The Apostle is pointing out that God did not appoint this sonship upon
any of the former prophets. Jesus is the first prophet to be declared
God's Son and heir to all of God's authority. Jesus is the true Israel,
the firstborn son of God appointed to defy Pharaoh, the false god of
the world order of darkness.

> 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world,
> he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

"All the angels of God" is all the Prophets, Apostles, believers,
saints, etc. Everyone is to give Christ the preeminence.

> 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and
> his ministers a flame of fire.
>
> 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and
> ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Jesus is above all the messengers of God, and will judge all.

NightBulb.net

unread,
Oct 19, 2023, 12:13:30 AM10/19/23
to
On Sat, 07 Oct 2023 13:43:15 -0400
James <zeb...@windstream.net> wrote:

> The scripture literally says "in voice of archangel" . It takes an
> archangel to have the voice of an archangel. And if there is only one
> archangel or "Chief angel", then it would have to be Jesus.

Angel is from "aggelos" or "angelos" and means an envoy or messenger.

The Apostles are archangels. Each king of a nation or tribe is an
archangel in God's kingdom.

You are once again, taking your religious myth, and raisin-picking
scriptures in a way to prop up your myth.

NightBulb.net

unread,
Oct 19, 2023, 12:13:31 AM10/19/23
to
On Sat, 07 Oct 2023 13:43:15 -0400
James <zeb...@windstream.net> wrote:

> So was Jesus Michael the archangel? The evidence is there. Some may
> say yes, and some no. It's your decision.

As long as you can make the word of God flexible, you can make it mean
anything you want it to mean. Your bible study consists of picking
cherries and splitting raisins and figs.

NightBulb.net

unread,
Oct 19, 2023, 12:13:32 AM10/19/23
to
On Sat, 07 Oct 2023 13:43:15 -0400
James <zeb...@windstream.net> wrote:

> So was Jesus Michael the archangel? The evidence is there. Some may
> say yes, and some no. It's your decision.

It's your delusion. And you can keep it. No thanks!

NightBulb.net

unread,
Oct 19, 2023, 12:29:15 AM10/19/23
to
On Sat, 07 Oct 2023 16:30:21 -0700
No one <no...@none.con> wrote:

> > No
> > other heavenly creature has been given the authority over the dead
> > except Jesus, who was given the keys of hades and death. (Rev 1:18)

Peter also got the keys.

"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I
will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against
it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and
whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and
whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

If you try to claim that Peter is not a "heavenly creature" you have a
tough row to hoe. If he is a new creature in Christ, then for sure he
is a heavenly creature. And if he has the keys of heaven, he for sure
is a heavenly creature. If he is one of the twelve Apostles of the Lamb
that sits around God's throne, then for certain he is a heavenly
creature. That which is sown in the earth and dies is raised a
quickening spirit and is heavenly. For it is written we first bear the
image of the earthy, and then we will bear the image of the heavenly.

> It says nothing about him having been given those keys.
>
> “I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for
> evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.” (Rev 1:18)

It's tragic watching both you twain each pretend he is an expert in the
bible, when at almost every turn you only see part of the story and
miss the main point. God sent Jesus, who took away the sin of the
world. Sin is gone. It has been taken out of the way. Now all is left
is the burning hellfire of wrath which men bring upon themselves by
refusing God's grace. You both cherry-pick and raisin-pick whatever
verses you think will prove your preconceived notions.

NightBulb.net

unread,
Oct 19, 2023, 12:29:18 AM10/19/23
to
On Sat, 07 Oct 2023 13:43:15 -0400
James <zeb...@windstream.net> wrote:

> But is there more evidence? Yes, the powerful angel Michael had a
> dispute with Satan about Moses' body. (Jude 9) Satan may very well
> wanted to trap the Israelites into relic worship, but Michael won and
> Moses body ended up in an unmarked grave. (De 34:6) Thus this Michael
> was very interested in the affairs of the Israelites.

Moses "body" means the law of Moses and the tribes of Israel, not the
man's corpse. The dispute is about who will have the dominion. Although
you quoted Jude 1:9, you omitted the prior verse and verses after:

Jude 1:8,10-11
Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise
dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what
they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt
themselves. Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of
Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and
perished in the gainsaying of Core.

The dispute is about dominion over tribes of Israel and nations, and
the manner or law of sacrifice, and who carries on in the authority of
Moses (Joshua at the time). Each tribe and nation has at its head a
"archangel" or chief messenger or envoy to the King of Kings. An
Apostle is an archangel. But who is the lead archangel is in dispute,
until if falls upon Joshua.

Dominion comes by the blood of Jesus Christ, not by man forcing a
sacrifice by means of man's hands. The Devil, or Satan, sought to take
the body of Moses (the law) and use it to provoke Israel to sin through
idolatry or fleshly hero worship (clergy, pastorate). Getting them to
trust in the law (or leaders) instead of the blood of Jesus is a form of
idolatry. Giving the law dominion would continue the curse of the law,
and Michael left it to the Lord to rebuke the accuser.

NightBulb.net

unread,
Oct 19, 2023, 12:29:19 AM10/19/23
to
On Sat, 07 Oct 2023 13:43:15 -0400
James <zeb...@windstream.net> wrote:

> Facts: There is apparently many “prince” angels, but only ONE
> archangel, Michael. And only one “great prince”. Dan 12:1a,

In Daniel 12, the English phrase, "chief princes" is from the Hebrew,
"rishon sar". The word, "rishon" is from Hebrew, "roshe" and means
exactly the same thing as the Greek, "arche" or "archon". In fact, the
Hebrew, "roshe" and the Greek, "arche", ARE THE SAME WORD in the most
ancient proto-Greek and Hebrew dialects. The later Hebrew drops the
leading, "a" from "arache" to form, "roshe" while the Greek retains it.

A lot of Hebrew and Proto Greek words are identical words or nearly
identical. Paleo-Hebrew was a pidgin language formed from the influence
of many other languages in the regions the Hebrews journeyed, from
Egypt, to Peria, to Grecia, and other regions of the ancient Near East
and North Africa.

The Hebrew, "Rishon sar" means the same thing as the Greek, "archon
aggelo," or "archangel." So the, "chief princes" are the "archangels."
Michael is not the only "archangel" as you claim.

So we see that the bible does not say there is only one archangel.
There are several archangels, or "chief princes" of the throne of
Israel.

Also, archangel does not imply a supernatural being, as some suppose.

"Angel" simply means "messenger" or "envoy." It does not imply anything
supernatural by itself.

An apostle is an "angel" who proceeds directly from the King. The Greek
word, Apostle could also be translated as Envoy or Ambassador. The Greek
Apostle is also equivalent to "archangel" and the Hebrew for
"archangel," the phrase, "rishon sar." There are at least twelve
archangels under the new covenant: The twelve Apostles are all
archangels. Peter is the chief of these archangels, and Christ is the
King, or highest archangel of all, the one who proceeds directly from
the throne of the Father to the other Princes or Archangels.

James

unread,
Oct 23, 2023, 7:50:18 PM10/23/23
to
Since we are not a cult, there is nothing to change. Look up the
definition of a "cult". There is a multitude of different definitions.
Some define it so as to make Jesus a cult. Others define it to make
ALL Christian religion cults. Etc.

Sincerely James
Israel and Armageddon
10/23/23

James

unread,
Oct 23, 2023, 8:31:37 PM10/23/23
to
On Tue, 17 Oct 2023 15:12:06 -0400, James <zeb...@windstream.net>
wrote:
Good for you.

Sincerely James
Israel and Armageddon
10/23/23

No one

unread,
Oct 24, 2023, 10:53:44 PM10/24/23
to
On Oct 23, 2023, James wrote
(in article<3e1ejipsdb3he3n0j...@4ax.com>):
You are a cult, you preach a far different gospel and for that reason you are
accursed.

Re Paul the apostle speaking what God gave him to speak.


James

unread,
Oct 25, 2023, 11:50:10 AM10/25/23
to
You are highly mislead. Observe:

"People also ask
What is the true meaning of gospel?
good news
The word itself comes from a Greek word euangelion, which literally
means “good news.” In the New Testament, it refers to the announcement
that Jesus has brought the reign of God to our world through his life,
death, and resurrection from the dead."

JW's fully agree. And they preach that "reign of God" as the
approaching of God's Kingdom:

-- New King James
Matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all
the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
Like it or not, JW's are the one's fulfilling Mt 24:14.
Do you know what God's Kingdom is?

Sincerely James
Israel and Armageddon
10/25`/23
Go to jw.org

No one

unread,
Oct 26, 2023, 1:37:02 AM10/26/23
to
On Oct 25, 2023, James wrote
(in article<cqdiji1ffbe3n1sm8...@4ax.com>):
Certainly, at this time it is a spiritual kingdom, in the not to distant
future it will be a physical Kingdom as well, the time when Christ rules the
entire earth for 1000 years and at the beginning of that Satan will be tossed
into bottom less pit for a thousand years and at the end of that time he will
be released to gather up all who are opposed to Jesus to war against him. You
are not a member of either one of those kingdoms as you have chosen to follow
a cult, not Jesus.
>
>
> Sincerely James

James

unread,
Oct 26, 2023, 9:07:04 AM10/26/23
to
We don't follow Jesus? You have been listening to false teachers. Just
pick up any of our literature, and see how we follow Jesus. What
people get upset about is that we go by the Bible only, and thus do
not believe Jesus is God.

Here is a very simple challenge to convince me. Just explain each of
the following:


Jesus didn't know the day or hour. But only God did.(Mt 24:36)
Cannot look at God and still live. (Ex 33:20)
No man has ever seen God; (1 John 4:12)
Jesus has the same God as we do. (Mt 27:46)
No one has seen the Father. (John 6:46)
Jesus said he was the start of God's creations. (Rev 3:14)
Yes, Jesus was created by God (Col 1:15)
God is not a three headed freak, but only ONE God. (Deut 6:4)
God is not a three headed freak, but only ONE God. (Mr 12:29)
Only God is good. (Mr 10:18)
Jesus said must worship and serve only God. (Mt 4:10)
In Heaven, God is the head of Jesus. (1 Cor 11:3)
Jesus' angel said to "Worship God", not Jesus (Rev 19:10)
-- New King James
He trusted in God; let Him deliver Him now if He will have Him; for He
said, `I am the Son of God.' (Matthew 27:43 )
God is greater than Jesus. (John 14:28)

I reason on these that Jesus cannot be God.

Sincerely James
Israel and Armageddon
10/26/23
Go to jw.org

No one

unread,
Oct 26, 2023, 4:54:28 PM10/26/23
to
On Oct 26, 2023, James wrote
(in article<3hokji16mn6psa7i6...@4ax.com>):
Gimme a break, you espouse the Kingdom of God in which Jesus rules. You speak
constantly of Jesus, Yet deny that He is God.

That is of the spirit of the Antichrist, pure and simple, it is a far
different Gospel that Paul taught and so it is accursed.

I have been hammering on you about that for months, and you wander all
around, if full deceit.

>
>
> Here is a very simple challenge to convince me. Just explain each of
> the following:

I already have. And your answer regarding my reply. "I probably forgot all
about it, as I do not retain what I do not believe"

So why, when you are not open to reasoning would I waste the time giving you
multiple replies, as I type everything fresh and do not thoughtlessly cut and
paste things in like you do"

James

unread,
Oct 31, 2023, 3:20:56 PM10/31/23
to
The Bible does. That is where I get it from. For example:

-- New King James
John 14:28 "You have heard Me say to you, `I am going away and coming
back to you.' If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, `I am
going to the Father,' for My Father is greater than I.
>
>That is of the spirit of the Antichrist, pure and simple, it is a far
>different Gospel that Paul taught and so it is accursed.
>
>I have been hammering on you about that for months, and you wander all
>around, if full deceit.

It is EXACTLY the same 'gospel' that the apostle Paul speaks. And Paul
knew that Jesus was not God.

Up in Heaven. To repeat, up in Heaven where Jesus was right then, Paul
said:

-- New King James
1 Corinthians 11:3 But I want you to know that the head of every man
is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

>
>>
>>
>> Here is a very simple challenge to convince me. Just explain each of
>> the following:
>
>I already have.

Forgive my bluntness, but I don't believe you. Please copy and paste
it then, or humor me and answer them. (again). Here is the list again:

Jesus didn't know the day or hour. But only God did.(Mt 24:36)
Cannot look at God and still live. (Ex 33:20)
No man has ever seen God; (1 John 4:12)
Jesus has the same God as we do. (Mt 27:46)
No one has seen the Father. (John 6:46)
Jesus said he was the start of God's creations. (Rev 3:14)
Yes, Jesus was created by God (Col 1:15)
God is not a three headed freak, but only ONE God. (Deut 6:4)
God is not a three headed freak, but only ONE God. (Mr 12:29)
Only God is good. (Mr 10:18)
Jesus said must worship and serve only God. (Mt 4:10)
In Heaven, God is the head of Jesus. (1 Cor 11:3)
Jesus' angel said to "Worship God", not Jesus (Rev 19:10)
God is greater than Jesus. (John 14:28)
Jesus said, "I am God's Son", not 'I am God'. (John 10:36)

No one

unread,
Oct 31, 2023, 11:02:20 PM10/31/23
to
On Oct 31, 2023, James wrote
(in article<