Jesus is not the Almighty!
guardian Snow
> I have no idea why you used my name here since you quoted nothing I
> said in any post.
I’ve actually been impressed by you and haven’t seen you post for a
while. I was concerned and knew that would get your attention I
enjoy talking to you at times because it is good for readers to see
both sides of the issue instead of just my perspective.
> > Christians fabricate a deity out of a man because reality is that they
> > hate YAHWEH and are in open rebellion against his Torah. YAHWEH
> > creates ALL things according to scriptures, including Satan, who
> > answers to him.
>
> Speaking of lies, that is a blatant one. Christians do not hate YHWH,
> they love him.
Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
>They do not fabricate a deity out of a man, they
> believe the revealed word of YHWH concerning his Son, that he is God
> manifest in the flesh. John 1 "In the beginning was the Word and the
> Word was WITH God and the Word WAS God .. and the Word was made flesh
> and tabernacled among us and we beheld his glory ..."
As I pointed out to you on many occasions now, “God” is a
mistranslation but in order to maintain your dogma you stand by this
and continue to use the mistranslation because you do not believe
Moses.
Num 23:19 El is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man,
that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath
he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
1Sa 15:29 And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for
he is not a man, that he should repent.
Mal 3:6 For I am YAHWEH, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are
not consumed.
You have changed the spirit into a man that he should repent.
Joh 10:30 “I and My Father are one.”
While Yehoshua was a man that was one with the spirit, the spirit is
not limited to the Flesh of one man for ALL can be one with YHWH.
Joh 17:22 “And the esteem which You gave Me I have given them, so that
they might be one as We are one,
You have come to worship the image of idolatry instead of the spirit.
Isa 42:8 I am YAHWEH: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to
another, neither my praise to graven images.
> It is not a faulty dogma to believe what John said: "In the beginning
> was the Word and the Word was with YHWH and the Word WAS YHWH. That is
> the teaching of the apostles." But it is faulty dogma to make up your
> own gospel - in fact it is arrogant beyond measure.
Even in your faulty mistranslation of scriptures it reads:
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him
in spirit and in truth.
> No he is not like Moses. Moses built the tabernacle as YHWH instructed
> him. But Yeshua was the tabernacle of the Holy Spirit as John 1 tells
> us. "the Word was made flesh and TABERNACLED (dwelt or made his tent)
> among us. And that tent was Jesus.
Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen Elohim. The only brought-forth Son, who
is in the bosom of the Father, He did declare.
You tear a passage out of context and fail to see that no one ever saw
YHWH except the son.
>Moses was a servant of YHWH but
So was Yehoshua.
Mat 12:18 Behold my SERVANT, whom I have chosen
A servant must have a Master and YHWH has none else.
Isa 45:22 “Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth! For I
am Ěl, and there is none else.
> Yeshua was "greater than the temple": Mat 12:6 "But I say unto you,
> That in this place is one greater than the temple." Moses was under
> obligation to keep the Sabbath, but Yeshua was Lord of the Sabbath:
> Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is master even of the Sabbath day.
> Who is Master of the Sabbath? Answer: YHWH is Lord of the Sabbath.
> Yeshua is Lord of the Sabbath, so, Yeshua is YHWH.
Being master of the Sabbath is not proof because the Sabbath made for
MAN.
Mar 2:27 And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not
man for the Sabbath.”
None of the points you raise make a case for the man’s flesh being a
spirit that no man has ever seen. Just as the earth and all creation
was GIVEN over to man, so was the Sabbath.
Gen 9:3 “Every moving creature that lives is food for you. I have
given you all, as I gave the green plants.
Because you do not know or understand the Torah, you did not know that
ALL was given over to MAN. The Sabbath was part of the Creation and
in that we understand that the Torah was since the beginning but you
do not because you spend all your time worshiping men like Paul.
1Jn 2:24 As for you, let that stay in you which you heard from the
beginning. If what you heard from the beginning stays in you, you also
shall stay in the Son and in the Father.
And so we see the unchanging nature of the spirit of YAHWEH that was,
will be and is eternal as his covenant with man and his Torah is.
Exo 31:16 ‘And the children of Yisra’ĕl shall guard the Sabbath, to
observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as an everlasting
covenant.
> Do you not realize that YHWH visited his people as the Son of man? God
> was in Christ reconciling the world to himself.
YHWH’S spirit was in the Messiah, as it was and will be in many other
men. Your problem is that you limit what is unlimited and this is the
point that I have continued to attempt to teach you that you will not
learn because you fixate on carnal images and false apostles.
> That is what you have
> missed. Yeshua is not "an elohim". He is THE ELOHIM: He is YHWH
Joh 7:28 Yehoshua therefore cried out in the Set-apart Place, teaching
and saying, “You both know Me, and you know where I am from. And I
have NOT COME OF MYSELF, but HE WHO SENT ME is true, whom YOU DO NOT
KNOW.
He refutes you by his own words. You must continue to insist that the
Hebrew word for “Mighty” means deity because it allows your false
worship to continue but just a little while ago you acknowledged that
the same didn’t apply to Moses in Exodus 7:1 or Abraham in
Gen 23:5 And the sons of Ḥĕth answered Aḇraham, saying to him, 6
“Hear us, my master [adonai also translated LORD in KJV]: You are a
Elohim [translated mighty in kjv but also GOD] prince among us. Bury
your dead in the choicest of our burial places. None of us withholds
from you his burial site, from burying your dead.”
Here Abraham is also called adonai and Elohim, Lord and God in KJV
translation, the same is used for “Jesus” in the equivalent Greek text
“Kurious and Theos”. He also has the title of Elohim but they
correctly translate the word "mighty" but is usually translated
“God”. Does Yahweh share his name with Abraham now? Of course not.
YHWH is Elohim of Elohim and to continue to mistranslate the
scriptures for the sake of personal dogma is transgression of Torah.
Joh 5:30 “Of Myself I am unable to do any matter.
Joh 5:31 “If I bear witness of Myself, My witness is not true.
Nothing is impossible for the Father who does all things, which is not
true of the Messiah.
So, while you say you love “Jesus”, you do it by ignoring his
teachings and claiming Paul had more authority. In your worship of
all things carnal, you believe your deliverance comes at the hands of
murdering Romans instead of the Almighty Compassion of Yahweh or will
you deny “the blood of the cross”? I believe Yehoshua when he said:
Joh 12:50 And I know that HIS COMMANDMENT IS EVERLASTING LIFE
You do not believe him, nor do you love him by following another in
Paul. You further fail to reconcile the fact that YHWH is ELOHIM OF
ELOHIM.
Deu 10:17 For YHWH your Elohim is the mighty one of the elohim , and
Sovereign of sovereign, a great El, mighty, and terrible, which
regardeth not persons, nor taketh bribes:
And that the Messiah was under authority and had a deity of his own!
Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Yahushua cried with a loud voice,
saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My Elohim, my
Elohim, why hast thou forsaken me?
Even after the resurrection:
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my
Elohim, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the
name of my Elohim, and the name of the city of my Elohim, which is new
Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my Elohim: and I will
write upon him my new name.
You can’t be the ALMIGHTY and be servant to another Elohim/”God”. The
curse of confusion in Babylon is upon you because you do not believe
Moses and the Prophets. That YHWH saved his son and all his children.
Deu 28:19 “Cursed are you when you come in, and cursed are you when
you go out.
Deu 28:20 “יהוה sends on you the curse, the confusion, and the rebuke
in all that you set your hand to do, until you are destroyed and until
you perish quickly, because of the evil of your doings by which you
have forsaken Me.
That the LAW IS COMPASSION and you are a Pharisee, just like your
Father Paul! Gal 4:19 My little children
1Co 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet
have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you
through the gospel.
VS.
Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your
Father, which is in heaven.
Mat 23:23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you
tithe the mint and the anise and the cumin,1 and have neglected the
weightier matters of the Torah: the right-ruling and the compassion
and the belief. These need to have been done, without neglecting the
others. Footnote:1The wording in Lk. 11:42 is somewhat different.
Deu 4:31 (For YHWH thy Elohim is a merciful El;) he will not forsake
thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers
which he sware unto them.
Isa 45:15 Truly You are Ěl, who hide Yourself, O Elohim of Yisra’ĕl,
Saviour!
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/messianic_Yehoshua/
Come post a message please, I'd love to hear from you. While this is
a moderated forum, the only moderation will be to remove spam.
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
Always look at what you have left. Never look at what you have lost.
Robert H. Schuller
http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download the scriptures free
Luk 9:5 “And as for those who do not receive you, when you go out of
that city, shake off the dust from your feet as a witness against
them.” 6 And going out they went through the villages, bringing the
Good News and healing everywhere.
http://messianicyehoshua.googlegroups.com/web/RNKJV.zip <--free
download of the Restored Names King James Version
Life is a gift, and it offers us the privilege, opportunity, and
responsibility to give something back by becoming more.
Tony Robbins
Some people hate and expect affection
Some people lie and demand the truth
I gotta ask myself if it's soul deception
Is this the natural thing that we all just do
We take such pleasure from pain,
I'm just tired of playing that game
Some things you've got to change
Chorus:
You've got to stand and deliver, with your body and soul
Stand and deliver, just give me something to hold
Stand and deliver, if the truth can be told
We can make it together, if we stand - stand and deliver
guardian Snow
singin4free
Thanks for the explanation of why you addressed me in this post.
You've covered old ground again, and frankly today being a national
holiday in my country, my mood is I'd rather make music. I may reply
soon, but for now, I hope your diligent readers will research our
prior discussions. Happy 4th to the ex-Lutheran from Saginaw who lives
down under. Peace.
guardian Snow
> Thanks for the explanation of why you addressed me in this post.
> You've covered old ground again, and frankly today being a national
> holiday in my country, my mood is I'd rather make music. I may reply
> soon, but for now, I hope your diligent readers will research our
> prior discussions. Happy 4th to the ex-Lutheran from Saginaw who lives
> down under. Peace.
A wonderfully refreshing attitude. Hope you enjoy your independence
and have a great day! I'm glad to see you are doing well:) I'll toss
a shrimp on the Barbecue for Christmas in July:) (NOT)
walksalone
news:17ed55bc-f087-4b33...@m3g2000pri.googlegroups.com:
> On Jul 3, 4:36 pm, singin4free <jffry...@gmail.com> wrote:
Through but not to snow, it's unlikely even understood what is posted.
>> I have no idea why you used my name here since you quoted nothing I
>> said in any post.
It's a fairly common technique used by trolls who have ran out of people
they can "discuss" anything with. Most people use the term, talk at. Are
there exceptions, of course. But given the history of snow in his
attempts to manipulate others, your guess is as good as mine. Possibly
even better.
> I’ve actually been impressed by you and haven’t seen you post for
> a while. I was concerned and knew that would get your attention I
> enjoy talking to you at times because it is good for readers to see
> both sides of the issue instead of just my perspective.
The only issue, is your continued presence and continued trolling of the
xian groups. Like anyone else, you could post on topic or close to it,
you elect to tell him that they are not only stupid, but wrong & you
alone have the right answers. But you don't, this did not stop you from
braying to the world that you do in fact have information you cannot
provide evidence for. And it won't.
For there to be a perspective on an issue, there needs to be an issue,
not a self proclaimed issue, an actual issue. Your concerns, are less
than important than the majority of the world. Possibly even less
important to those members of the Usenet community that have to download
your trash and then filter it out.
Snip usual miscellaneous attempts at self-aggrandizement.
Now here is an issue you have created for yourself, your status as a
false teacher.
From: guardian Snow <snowp...@eck.net.au>
Newsgroups:
alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.christnet.christianlife,alt.messianic.
yeshua,alt.bible,alt.messianic
Subject: The battle of Good and Evil
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 09:40:13 -0700 (PDT)
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Lines: 127
Message-ID: <829f0745-9db9-4340-a809-
874e7f...@i28g2000prd.googlegroups.com>
> Were you going to comment and decided not too?
Neither, but that does not concern you. What does concern the
audience is your posturing & speaking of things you are glaringly
ignorant of.
To wit: the title of this thread you introduced & crossposted in
order to impress yourself.
There is no battle between good & evil, just people like you
pretending there is.
Good: an artificial concept used to describe things we want to do,
or have done to us. In nature, which we are part of, there is no
collective concious concept of good.
In the religious sense, what you want others to do.
Evil: Another artificial concept used to describe things we don't
want, or don't want done to ourselves.
In the religious sense, what you want others to do.
Collectively, used to mold peoples mental patterns in an effort to
control them. Both politicians & high & low priests use the terms
interchangably.
The concepts are useful when used as something other than boogey men.
Good, that which befefits a society, or gene pool, preferrably
without harming others.
Bad, that which harms a society or gene pool by causeing harm to
others, or a gene pool.
Now, you can play with those observations, you can play with the
dictionary & claim they are wrong. Or you can show them to be wrong
& you to be right. Care to play?
Hint, I will cram your attempts to divert & sidetrack by employing
scripture as an authority right back down your throat.
After all, what makes yolu think that if the Hebrew Bible & Greek
testments have historical errors, & they do, they don't have
mythological claims for the truth wrong as well.
No, that is not a threat, I don't bother with them. It is a fact.
Your only choice, should you elect to play BMOC, is to address the
concepts & falsify them.
walksalone who does so look forward to the day that snow besides to
standup & attempt to defend his claims. But I can't hold my breath for
the centuries that would require. Nor can anyone else.
Archeologists near mount Sinai have discovered what is
believed to be a missing page from the Bible and is believed
to read 'To my darling Candy. All characters portrayed within
this book are fictitous and any resemblance to persons living
or dead is purely coincidental'.
walksalone
ae7e-06c...@j9g2000prh.googlegroups.com:
> On Jul 4, 4:44�am, singin4free <jffry...@gmail.com> wrote:
Snow went courting, only time will tell if he was successful.
>> Thanks for the explanation of why you addressed me in this post.
>> You've covered old ground again, and frankly today being a national
>> holiday in my country, my mood is I'd rather make music. I may reply
>> soon, but for now, I hope your diligent readers will research our
>> prior discussions. Happy 4th to the ex-Lutheran from Saginaw who lives
>> down under. Peace.
Snip
> A wonderfully refreshing attitude. Hope you enjoy your independence
> and have a great day! I'm glad to see you are doing well:) I'll toss
> a shrimp on the Barbecue for Christmas in July:) (NOT)
And for the reading material, I will provide the following complements of
you.
walksalone who would be impressed if not startled should smell ever
attempt to stand up and make his opinions be supported by fact. Of
course, I would be startled if the Halley comet meteorite turn, 500 years
too soon, just as I was having breakfast, and crashed into the earth. I'd
also be dead, but I'd definitely be startled.
ABATIS, n. Rubbish in front of a fort, to prevent the rubbish
outside from molesting the rubbish inside.
Devils dictionary
guardian Snow
On Jul 4, 12:32 am, "John Fraser" <jfra...@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Exodus 4:16 (NIV)
> He will speak to the people for you, and it will be as if he were your
> mouth and as if you were God to him.
>
> Elohim (Strong's H430)
> 1) (plural)
> a) rulers, judges
> b) divine ones
> c) angels
> d) gods
> I appreciate the significance of this. Roman Catholics are taught that
> when they are in the confessional booth, the priest becomes Jesus and thus
> they are confessing directly to Jesus.
The focus of this confession is should be corporeal and not static in
the sense that our prayers should be directly to the Spirit of Yahweh
and not the man that embodies the spirit.
Joh 4:24 Elohim is Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him
in spirit and in truth.
Christians have the hardest time understanding this simple concept
because the focus is always on images.
Daniel J. Boorstin once said, “An image is not simply a trademark, a
design, a slogan or an easily remembered picture. It is a studiously
crafted personality profile of an individual, institution,
corporation, product or service.”
Deu 27:15 ‘Cursed is the man who makes a carved or moulded image, an
abomination to Yahweh, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and
sets it up in secret.’ And all the people shall answer and say,
‘Amĕn!’
Beliefs have the power to create and the power to destroy. Human
beings have the awesome ability to take any experience of their lives
and create a meaning that disempowers them or one that can literally
save their lives.
Tony Robbins
What is an image?
The dictionary defines it like this: A reproduction of the form of a
person or object, especially a sculptured likeness. If we consider
the act of how we make an image, the artist CAPTURES the essence of
the object and FREEZES that moment in a single lifeless object. The
image has the limitation of perspective and is an outward appearance
that goes against the very grain of everything the Messiah was
attempting to teach.
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Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye
make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they
are full of extortion and excess.
Rather then looking at images, we should be looking inside of
ourselves where the truth was written on our hearts from the very
beginning.
Gen 1:26 And Elohim said, “Let Us make man in Our image…
So what is it that we are doing when we practice “idolatry” and use
images in the practice of our worship? Now, I’ve already pointed out
in my original post that it’s breaking the commandment and as we’ve
seen, people will make up a dozen excuses not to obey the word.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with Elohim,
and the Word was Elohim.
The fact is we are taking an unlimited creator, capturing and by the
act destroying what it is that he is trying to teach us. Our creator
wanted us to avoid any image that was made by human hands because we
can’t make an infinite, all knowing image. Regardless of how
beautiful or highly regarded an image is, it’s death in perspective,
forever frozen in the constraints of perspective and that goes for
moving images also. It’s impossible to capture all perspectives and
place that inside the context of an image but we have something
better… WORDS.
Words are Power.
The universe ((uni) one (verse) spoken word) was created by words and
are unlimited in the capacity to deliver a message.
Gen 1:3 And Elohim said, “Let light come to be,” and light came to
be.
He spoke it and it came to be and you also have this same power
instilled within your very being and when you learn to let go of false
and pagan images, you learn to look inside at the true image that is
on your heart.
Pro 18:21 Death and life are in the power of the tongue, And those
loving it eat its fruit.
When you understand that YOU have the power of life and death in your
own mouth and that you have been created in the image of the almighty
creator, you understand how outright ignorant it is to use any symbol.
I am more afraid of my own heart than of the pope and all his
cardinals. I have within me the great pope, Self.
Martin Luther
This wasn’t a blasphemous rant. It’s confirmed by scripture that you
can’t look outside yourself and expect to find elohim.
Joh 10:34 יהושע answered them, “Is it not written in your own Torah,
‘I said, “You are elohim” ’?
You are the future you create by your own words and your own words,
actions and deeds and no image is going to help you understand that.
Images are only going to LOCK you in, CONFINE your imagination and
keep you focused on OUTWARD appearances and not looking at what is
inside of YOU.
Mat 7:3 “And why do you look at the splinter in your brother’s eye,
but do not notice the plank in your own eye?
The entire message of the messiah was attempting to teach you to look
INSIDE YOURSELF! To be your own judge and take upon yourself the path
of righteousness and by YOUR example, lead others to the truth. If
you spend all your time trying to correct everybody else and the
mistake they make, your only going to end up being the object of
loathing. How many times have we seen it…
You smoke, your going to hell. Your commiting adultery… You’re a
homosexual… condemning everybody else instead of looking into the real
solution within themselves which is taking the log out of our eye so
that we see rightly. Until we learn that, you can have a million
images but they are all OUTWARD looking and we missed the entire
message, to LOOK INSIDE. Stop placing limitations on that which has NO
LIMITS.
If you want to be successful, find someone who has achieved the
results you want and copy what they do and you'll achieve the same
results.
Tony Robbins
Christians always ask, What would Jesus Do? And this is the best
question to be asking. When you consider that he kept the Torah and
placed his faith in the Father and not some image, you realize that
you had the answers all the time. You know the right thing to do when
you follow those words inscribed on your heart and in scriptures
already. You were created in his IMAGE and that’s the ONLY IMAGE you
need to focus your attention on.
> Personally, I don't think the two
> are quite the same. Essentially, I would treat the verse as when Moses
> speaks to the Pax Israel, God is speaking.. The voice you hear is not
> Moses, but God.
>
> I have a question for you regarding the Old Testament. Is the following
> verse translated from Hebrew? What is its significance?
>
> Isaiah 9:6
Isa 9:6 For a Child shall be born unto us, a Son shall be given unto
us, and the rule is on His shoulder. And His Name is called Wonder,
Counsellor, Strong Ěl, Father of Continuity, Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of His rule and peace there is no end, upon
the throne of Dawiḏ and over His reign, to establish it and sustain
it with right-ruling and with righteousness from now on, even forever.
The ardour of Yahweh of hosts does this. Footnote: 1See 16:5, Ps. 2,
Ps. 45:6, Mic. 5:2, Lk. 1:32-33.
You must include verse 7 in this most important Messianic Prophecy.
The first thing to understand is, “who is us?” that the child is given
to? The answer of course is Israel, to be her eternal King. The
names are spiritually significant because this Son of Man is given
great title and authority and especially significant is mighty EL
where the Hebrew word is GIBBOR. This use of GIBBOR is first used
here:
Gen 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also
afterward, when the sons of Elohim came in to the daughters of men and
they bore children to them. Those were the *GIBBOR* men who were of
old, the men of name.
Remember that Yehoshua taught:
Joh 8:58 Yahushua said unto them, Verily,verily, I say unto you,
Before Abraham was, I am.
EL does not mean the Messiah is YHWH! An example of context is here:
Exo 15:11 Who is like unto thee, O YHWH, among the EL?
(KJV)
Exo 15:11 Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods?
Notice that “GODS” is plural in this mistranslation. This take you
back to the fact that the Hebrew word EL only means mighty ones. So
to bring it full circle:
Mat 1:23 “See, a maiden shall conceive, and she shall give birth to a
Son, and they shall call His Name Immanu’ĕl,” which translated, means,
“Ěl with us.”
I’d like to see what you gain from this.
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua <-- please join
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/messianic_Yehoshua/
Beliefs have the power to create and the power to destroy. Human
beings have the awesome ability to take any experience of their lives
and create a meaning that disempowers them or one that can literally
save their lives.
Tony Robbins
http://www.e-sword.net/ Free bible software
http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download the scriptures free
http://messianicyehoshua.googlegroups.com/web/RNKJV.zip <--free
download of the Restored Names King James Version
http://messianicyehoshua.googlegroups.com/web/shalom.mp3 free music
http://messianicyehoshua.googlegroups.com/web/THE+BOOK+OF+JUBILEES.zip
http://messianicyehoshua.googlegroups.com/web/Music_-_Kerry_Alexander_-_B%27nai_Shalom.mp3
singin4free
>
> > I have no idea why you used my name here since you quoted nothing I
> > said in any post.
>
> I’ve actually been impressed by you and haven’t seen you post for a
> while. I was concerned and knew that would get your attention I
> enjoy talking to you at times because it is good for readers to see
> both sides of the issue instead of just my perspective.
>
> > > Christians fabricate a deity out of a man because reality is that they
> > > hate YAHWEH and are in open rebellion against his Torah. YAHWEH
> > > creates ALL things according to scriptures, including Satan, who
> > > answers to him.
>
> > Speaking of lies, that is a blatant one. Christians do not hate YHWH,
> > they love him.
>
> Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
>
A quote from the Christian New Testament. So, you see, you are
preaching to the choir. Christians know they are to obey the
commandments of Christ. Some don't. Does that make Christianity false?
Of course not.
And *the disciples* were called *Christians* first in Antioch. Act
11:26
> >They do not fabricate a deity out of a man, they
> > believe the revealed word of YHWH concerning his Son, that he is God
> > manifest in the flesh. John 1 "In the beginning was the Word and the
> > Word was WITH God and the Word WAS God .. and the Word was made flesh
> > and tabernacled among us and we beheld his glory ..."
>
> As I pointed out to you on many occasions now, “God” is a
> mistranslation but in order to maintain your dogma you stand by this
> and continue to use the mistranslation because you do not believe
> Moses.
>
My reason for interchangeably using the words God and YHWH or Elohim
is to illustrate that they all mean the same thing in our language,
when used in the proper context. It is not to "maintain my dogma". You
say I don't believe Moses? If I did not believe Moses I would toss out
my Bible. But Moses pointed us to Yeshua, even as Yeshua said:
Joh 5:39 Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal
life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
And as John pointed out to us in the introduction to his gospel:
Joh 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by
Jesus Christ.
Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son,
which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
So Jesus ushered in the grace of God, the grace of YHWH - the New
Covenant, and he brought with him a previously unrevealed Truth. And
that Truth is Himself - our Saviour, our Lord, the Son of YHWH, full
of grace and Truth as John said:
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we
beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,)
*full of grace and truth*.
So Yeshua was the giver of a new covenant, greater than MOses and even
the very Word of YHWH become flesh, who was in the beginnign with YHWH
and WAS YHWH, by whom all things were made and without him, nothing
was made that has been made. If anyone wants Life it is only in him
for it says:
Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
So no one can have eternal life without Yeshua. That is the message of
the gospel. The Father has called all, Jew or Gentile, male or female,
slave or free, to Come to him by means of Yeshua, Jesus the Christ,
the Messiah, the son of David who has inherited all the promises made
to David, including eternal forgiveness of sins, i.e. the "Sure
mercies of David", as it says:
Isa 55:1 Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he
that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and
milk without money and without price.
Isa 55:2 Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and
your labor for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me,
and eat ye that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in
fatness.
Isa 55:3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul
shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the
sure mercies of David.
What or who is this water? It is Yeshua who has the Living water, just
as he told us:
Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the
beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the
fountain of the water of life freely.
And from where does this water flow? IT says it is from the throne of
God *AND OF THE LAMB*:
Rev 22:1 And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as
crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
The Lamb is the One who sits on the throne with God (and IS God), and
who also became the Passover for our sins, thus the imagery of the
Lamb, and who as also fully man, has inherited the throne of his
father David so as to rule over all things both in heaven AND on
earth. That is such a wonderful mystery, and it is what caused Paul to
utter in his surprise at the revelation of the Spirit:
Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge
of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding
out!
Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been
his counselor?
Rom 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed
unto him again?
Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to
whom be glory forever. Amen.
This is in keeping with what Isaiah said:
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways
my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways
higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
And furthermore Isaiah says of Yeshua in prophecy:
Isa 55:4 Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a
leader and commander to the people.
Isa 55:5 Behold, thou shalt call a nation that thou knowest not, and
nations that knew not thee shall run unto thee because of the LORD thy
God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he hath glorified thee.
Is this the nation of Israel? Yes, but embodied in the representative
person of the man the Lord Yeshua the Messiah who bore the sins of the
whole nation and became, as the Messiah, the suffering servant for the
whole world: "the people", i.e. the Gentiles. He calls to the Jews, he
calls to the Gentiles, he calls to all "Come to the waters and drink
of the free gift of eternal life". And no man can tear down his gospel
of life and peace in Jesus Christ. No return to the Law of Moses can
save, because Moses exhorted the people to follow Yeshua as it says:
Act 3:22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the
Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him
shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
Act 7:37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel,
A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren,
like unto me; him shall ye hear.
Deu 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the
midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall
hearken;
The gospel preached by the apostles begins with the word of
repentance:
Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is
at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel
This is just as Isaiah said it should be when he prophesied:
Isa 55:6 Seek ye the LORD (YHWH) while he may be found, call ye upon
him while he is near:
Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his
thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD (YHWH) , and he will have
mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
So mercy and grace are preached to all who will obey the gospel: come
to YHWH forsaking all your wicked ways, that is come to him by means
of the Son Yeshua, and receive mercy, grace and forgiveness of sins in
his name.
Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the
name of YHWH shall be saved.
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one
of you in the name of Yeshua the Messiah for the forgiveness of sins,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
So we see that YHWH commands us to come to Yeshua for salvation, and
it is in his name that we are forgiven and cleansed from all sin, as
Peter said:
Act 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel,
that by the name of Yeshua the Messiah of Nazareth, whom ye crucified,
whom YHWH raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here
before you whole.
Act 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders,
which is become the head of the corner.
Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none
other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
And so, the Word of YHWH made flesh has accomplished the purpose He
was sent out to do, by becoming man and taking the price of our sins
upon himself on the cross. The Word of YHWH has then returned to the
Father in glory as it says:
Isa 55:10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and
returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring
forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the
eater:
Isa 55:11 So shall *my word* be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it
shall not return unto me void, but* it shall accomplish that which I
please*, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto *I sent it*.
And what did the Word accomplish? What task did He complete before he
returned to the Father whom he was with in the beginning, and whom he
is One? It was this:
Joh 19:30 When Yeshua therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It
is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the spirit.
This was the task he was born to complete, the thing that the Father
desired of him to accomplish - our salvation by his own blood upon the
cross, and without which we could not be forgiven of our sins, without
which there would be no gospel at all to preach. That is the mission
of Word that was sent forth and He was resurrected and returned to
the Father from whence he came, and is now glorified with Him and
worshiped by angels and all the holy ones in heaven. He will come
again as he promised to receive those who have trusted in him for
their salvation who have received the promised seal of the Holy
Spirit.
> Num 23:19 El is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man,
> that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath
> he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
> 1Sa 15:29 And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for
> he is not a man, that he should repent.
>
> Mal 3:6 For I am YAHWEH, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are
> not consumed.
>
> You have changed the spirit into a man that he should repent.
>
> Joh 10:30 “I and My Father are one.”
>
> While Yehoshua was a man that was one with the spirit, the spirit is
> not limited to the Flesh of one man for ALL can be one with YHWH.
>
Do you not understand that the time of our visitation by YHWH was the
time that the Spirit tabernacled among us(made his tent among us,
dwelt among us) in the body of the Lord Jesus Christ, Yeshua the
Messiah? As the true apostle Paul said:
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto
himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed
unto us the word of reconciliation.
and:
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.
and:
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness
dwell;
And John has agreed with Paul in this saying:
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we
beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,)
full of grace and truth.
And Yeshua told us:
Luk 19:44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children
within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another;
because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.
> Joh 17:22 “And the esteem which You gave Me I have given them, so that
> they might be one as We are one,
>
> You have come to worship the image of idolatry instead of the spirit.
>
Yeshua is holy. He is greater than the temple, and his body is
glorified with him. As you will have your body in the resurrection,
and it will be you as much as your spirit is you, so his body is him,
and he is glorified with the Father. Angels bow before Him.
> Isa 42:8 I am YAHWEH: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to
> another, neither my praise to graven images.
>
Yeshua is the Word of YHWH who was with YHWH in the beginning and WAS
YHWH, who was made manifest to the world and now is glorified. As it
says:
Rev 22:1 And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as
crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
There are not two thrones here but one. And upon that throne is the
One God, YHWH, eternally existent as the Father and the Son and the
Holy Spirit. The Lamb sits on this throne. He is not a graven image,
He is YHWH.
> > It is not a faulty dogma to believe what John said: "In the beginning
> > was the Word and the Word was with YHWH and the Word WAS YHWH. That is
> > the teaching of the apostles." But it is faulty dogma to make up your
> > own gospel - in fact it is arrogant beyond measure.
> Even in your faulty mistranslation of scriptures it reads:
>
> Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him
> in spirit and in truth.
>
Yes and without the Spirit of God no man can be born again, no man
belongs to Yeshua, no man is saved unless he has been given the gift
of the Holy Spirit. As the true apostle Paul said:
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that
the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of
Christ, he is none of his.
Yeshua said to see God we must be born again of the Spirit. So you do
not understand of what you are speaking. Yes, God is a Spirit. But to
be born of the Spirit is what is required for perfect worship. They
that are born of the Spirit are not disembodied. Neither is Yeshua a
disembodied spirit - he retains his body as the reward of his victory
over death as the Son of Man, and he retains his nature as the Son of
God, the eternal Word. And we Christians are not blasphemous to
worship him because we know who he is - the Word by whom all things
were made.
> > No he is not like Moses. Moses built the tabernacle as YHWH instructed
> > him. But Yeshua was the tabernacle of the Holy Spirit as John 1 tells
> > us. "the Word was made flesh and TABERNACLED (dwelt or made his tent)
> > among us. And that tent was Jesus.
>
> Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen Elohim. The only brought-forth Son, who
> is in the bosom of the Father, He did declare.
>
> You tear a passage out of context and fail to see that no one ever saw
> YHWH except the son.
>
> >Moses was a servant of YHWH but
>
> So was Yehoshua.
> Mat 12:18 Behold my SERVANT, whom I have chosen
>
> A servant must have a Master and YHWH has none else.
> Isa 45:22 “Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth! For I
> am Ěl, and there is none else.
>
> > Yeshua was "greater than the temple": Mat 12:6 "But I say unto you,
> > That in this place is one greater than the temple." Moses was under
> > obligation to keep the Sabbath, but Yeshua was Lord of the Sabbath:
> > Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is master even of the Sabbath day.
> > Who is Master of the Sabbath? Answer: YHWH is Lord of the Sabbath.
> > Yeshua is Lord of the Sabbath, so, Yeshua is YHWH.
>
> Being master of the Sabbath is not proof because the Sabbath made for
> MAN.
> Mar 2:27 And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not
> man for the Sabbath.”
>
Having the Sabbath made for him does not make every man Lord of the
Sabbath. Otherwise it would have been fine for everyone to break the
Sabbath. But only the Lord Jesus could do so without being a
lawbreaker. Why? Because the giver of the Law is also the Lord and
Master of the Law, and is not subject to the Law. So this is evidence
that Yeshua has the authority of the Lawgiver - i.e., the authority of
YHWH.
> None of the points you raise make a case for the man’s flesh being a
> spirit that no man has ever seen. Just as the earth and all creation
> was GIVEN over to man, so was the Sabbath.
>
You know not of what you speak. You speak of unutterable mysteries as
though they were common things. Yeshua ha Meshaich was the living Word
of the invisible God made flesh. This is a great mystery, revealed to
us by the apostles, and his glory was also revealed to us by them. We
worship the one true God and we do it in the Spirit who has come to
live in us. That is the Spirit of Christ the Messiah, sent forth from
God. Christ returned to his Father in glory, and shed forth the
Spirit, retaining the body in which he was resurrected and sitting
upon the throne as the Lamb with God. As it says:
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having
received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed
forth this, which ye now see and hear.
The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hands. That
includes us, and we are commanded to bow our knees to him and that is
a form of worship. He is Lord of Lords and King of Kings. And indeed
every knee shall bow to him whether now or at the judgment.
It says in Revelations:
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written,
KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
And Isaiah said:
Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in
righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall
bow, every tongue shall swear.
And the true apostle Paul said:
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee
shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
> Gen 9:3 “Every moving creature that lives is food for you. I have
> given you all, as I gave the green plants.
>
> Because you do not know or understand the Torah, you did not know that
> ALL was given over to MAN. The Sabbath was part of the Creation and
> in that we understand that the Torah was since the beginning but you
> do not because you spend all your time worshiping men like Paul.
>
Bitter waters cannot come from the same fountain as sweet water. False
accusation. I don't worship Paul. You know that. But you say it with
venom in your speech. That is not the Messiah's Spirit speaking. And
the venom is also directed at the true apostle Paul who gave his life
for the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. As far as the Torah is
concerned, the entire Torah points to the Messiah, and the Sabbath
rest for the People of God that he will bring, as the inspired writer
of the book of Hebrews pointed out:
Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of
entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them:
but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith
in them that heard it.
Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As
I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although
the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this
wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein,
and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of
unbelief:
Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, Today,
after so long a time; as it is said, Today if ye will hear his voice,
harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then would he not
afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased
from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us labor therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man
fall after the same example of unbelief.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than
any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and
spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the
thoughts and intents of the heart.
Heb 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his
sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with
whom we have to do.
Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed
into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our
profession.
Heb 4:15 For we have not a high priest which cannot be touched with
the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as
we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that
we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
> 1Jn 2:24 As for you, let that stay in you which you heard from the
> beginning. If what you heard from the beginning stays in you, you also
> shall stay in the Son and in the Father.
>
> And so we see the unchanging nature of the spirit of YAHWEH that was,
> will be and is eternal as his covenant with man and his Torah is.
>
> Exo 31:16 ‘And the children of Yisra’ĕl shall guard the Sabbath, to
> observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as an everlasting
> covenant.
>
> > Do you not realize that YHWH visited his people as the Son of man? God
> > was in Christ reconciling the world to himself.
>
> YHWH’S spirit was in the Messiah, as it was and will be in many other
> men. Your problem is that you limit what is unlimited and this is the
> point that I have continued to attempt to teach you that you will not
> learn because you fixate on carnal images and false apostles.
>
There is only One who had the Spirit without measure. And there is
only one as Yeshua told us himself by which we are to be saved. He is
the Door, the Way. All that came before him were thieves and robbers.
He alone is the Good Shepherd. No man comes to the Father except
through him. He is the only way and the only name by which we are to
be saved as Peter said:
Act 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel,
that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom
God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before
you whole.
Act 4:11 This is the stone which was set at naught of you builders,
which is become the head of the corner.
Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none
other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
And there is no other Son of God, no one else who has the Spirit
without measure.
Joh 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God
giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him
So, you greatly err in thinking that there can be any other man who is
like Yeshua, or that he is only a man and not the eternal Word who was
with YHWH in the beginning and WAS YHWH.
> > That is what you have
> > missed. Yeshua is not "an elohim". He is THE ELOHIM: He is YHWH
>
> Joh 7:28 Yehoshua therefore cried out in the Set-apart Place, teaching
> and saying, “You both know Me, and you know where I am from. And I
> have NOT COME OF MYSELF, but HE WHO SENT ME is true, whom YOU DO NOT
> KNOW.
>
> He refutes you by his own words. You must continue to insist that the
> Hebrew word for “Mighty” means deity because it allows your false
> worship to continue but just a little while ago you acknowledged that
> the same didn’t apply to Moses in Exodus 7:1 or Abraham in
>
> Gen 23:5 And the sons of Ḥĕth answered Aḇraham, saying to him, 6
> “Hear us, my master [adonai also translated LORD in KJV]: You are a
> Elohim [translated mighty in kjv but also GOD] prince among us. Bury
> your dead in the choicest of our burial places. None of us withholds
> from you his burial site, from burying your dead.”
>
> Here Abraham is also called adonai and Elohim, Lord and God in KJV
> translation, the same is used for “Jesus” in the equivalent Greek text
> “Kurious and Theos”. He also has the title of Elohim but they
> correctly translate the word "mighty" but is usually translated
> “God”. Does Yahweh share his name with Abraham now? Of course not.
>
> YHWH is Elohim of Elohim and to continue to mistranslate the
> scriptures for the sake of personal dogma is transgression of Torah.
>
Then you have violated the Torah. It is you who have imposed the wrong
interpretation on the word elohim, so that you can promote your
beliefs. But the scholars will disagree with you. Theos in this
context means the Creator. And if anyone wants to insert Elohim that
is fine as long as it also has that same connotation
> Joh 5:30 “Of Myself I am unable to do any matter.
> Joh 5:31 “If I bear witness of Myself, My witness is not true.
>
> Nothing is impossible for the Father who does all things, which is not
> true of the Messiah.
>
Of course that is nonsense. He calmed the sea. He turned water into
wine. He opened the eyes of the blind. He raised the dead. Nothing was
impossible for Yeshua either. Why? Because he is the Word of YHWH made
manifest in the flesh. He made the disciples say in wonder:
Mar 4:41 And they feared exceedingly, and said one to another, What
manner of man is this, that even the wind and the sea obey him?
And:
Joh 16:30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest
not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest
forth from God.
And:
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
> So, while you say you love “Jesus”, you do it by ignoring his
> teachings and claiming Paul had more authority.
Such false accusations! I never calimned Paul had more authority than
Yeshua. But his authority comes from Yeshua who said:
Act 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen
vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and
the children of Israel:
What gives you the right to deny the authority of scripture just
because it does not agree with what you want it to say? You say you
accept Acts and then you deny it, so you can toss out Paul, a servant
of the Lord Jesus Christ who died for the gospel and was used mightily
to win many souls for the Kingdom of God, inverse of what you are
doing.
> In your worship of
> all things carnal,
What a terrible false accustation.
> you believe your deliverance comes at the hands of
> murdering Romans instead of the Almighty Compassion of Yahweh
That is another great lie and false accusation. I have said many times
that Yeshua laid down his life of his own accord as he said:
Joh 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my
life, that I might take it again.
Joh 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I
have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This
commandment have I received of my Father.
It is faith in the gift of God that I believe in not murdering Romans.
And that gift is the life of his Son whcih he gave for the salvation
of the world yes, through the blood of his cross, as the true apostle
Paul said:
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by
him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they
be things in earth, or things in heaven.
That includes the murdering Romans and the murdering Jews as well, all
who will come to him for forgiveness because he forgave them as he
shed his blood:
Luk 23:34 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not
what they do.
> or will
> you deny “the blood of the cross”? I believe Yehoshua when he said:
>
> Joh 12:50 And I know that HIS COMMANDMENT IS EVERLASTING LIFE
>
His commandment is to believe in the Name of Yeshua:
1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the
name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us
commandment
> You do not believe him, nor do you love him by following another in
> Paul. You further fail to reconcile the fact that YHWH is ELOHIM OF
> ELOHIM.
>
As I said, I do not worship Paul, but you deny the word of God by
denying that Paul is an apostle. That YHWH is God of Gods is true, but
you deny that Yeshua is YHWH, another great error.
> Deu 10:17 For YHWH your Elohim is the mighty one of the elohim , and
> Sovereign of sovereign, a great El, mighty, and terrible, which
> regardeth not persons, nor taketh bribes:
>
> And that the Messiah was under authority and had a deity of his own!
>
Yes the Messiah's deity is indeed his Father. But that does not change
the mystery that:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and
the Word was God.
> Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Yahushua cried with a loud voice,
> saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My Elohim, my
> Elohim, why hast thou forsaken me?
>
Yeshua was in the process of fulfilling the scripture as he said this.
He is both God and man, and as man he was subject to the Father. That
does not change this:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and
the Word was God.
It simply accents this:
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we
beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,)
full of grace and truth.
> Even after the resurrection:
>
> Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my
> Elohim, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the
> name of my Elohim, and the name of the city of my Elohim, which is new
> Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my Elohim: and I will
> write upon him my new name.
>
As the glorified son of Man Yeshua is close to us and is our brother,
reconciling us to the Father. But that is only possible because he is
the Son of God and was in the beginning with him and IS him. This is a
great mystery, yet revealed to us by the apostles, and is not for
tampering with by man's logic. It isd an article of faith, requiring
our submission.
> You can’t be the ALMIGHTY and be servant to another Elohim/”God”.
That is not what John the apostle said. You cannot be a servant of
YHWH and dispobey his command to honor the Son.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and
the Word was God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we
beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,)
full of grace and truth.
> The
> curse of confusion in Babylon is upon you because you do not believe
> Moses and the Prophets. That YHWH saved his son and all his children.
>
But I do believe this. Moses told us to follow Yeshua. Yeshua, who is
the Word of YHWH who was in the beginning with YHWH and WAS YHWH, and
who was made flesh in obedience to the will of the Father has saved us
by his blood. This is the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. I have not
made it up. It is what the apostles preached. But you deny it.
> Deu 28:19 “Cursed are you when you come in, and cursed are you when
> you go out.
> Deu 28:20 “יהוה sends on you the curse, the confusion, and the rebuke
> in all that you set your hand to do, until you are destroyed and until
> you perish quickly, because of the evil of your doings by which you
> have forsaken Me.
>
The true apostle Paul has said we are redeemed from this curse by
faith in Yeshua. Yeshua himself said so:
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that
believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in
the name of the only begotten Son of God.
> That the LAW IS COMPASSION and you are a Pharisee, just like your
> Father Paul!
What a terrible thing to say! Paul is an apostle of the Lord Yeshua
the Messiah. Do you think you are higher than Yeshua who said:
Act 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen
vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and
the children of Israel:
> 1Co 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet
> have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you
> through the gospel.
> VS.
> Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your
> Father, which is in heaven.
>
Do you contend against the written word of God? If this seems
contradictory, a true believer and submissive one should ask rather
what is the proper interpretation to reconcile these two passages, not
try to malign a spirit-filled apostle of Yeshua the Messiah. And
indeed there is a good explanation, but this is not the time to argue
it.
> Mat 23:23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you
> tithe the mint and the anise and the cumin,1 and have neglected the
> weightier matters of the Torah: the right-ruling and the compassion
> and the belief. These need to have been done, without neglecting the
> others. Footnote:1The wording in Lk. 11:42 is somewhat different.
>
> Deu 4:31 (For YHWH thy Elohim is a merciful El;) he will not forsake
> thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers
> which he sware unto them.
>
> Isa 45:15 Truly You are Ěl, who hide Yourself, O Elohim of Yisra’ĕl,
> Saviour!
Those who contend against the Spirit of God by maligning the apostolic
scriptures will know in the end what they have done. The apostle Paul
did not malign the Torah or its compassion, but he revealed what he
was told to reveal by Jesus himself, that salvation has now come to
the whole world by faith in the cross of Yeshua, and God has called
all men to come to him, believe and be saved.
guardian Snow
> > So, while you say you love “Jesus”, you do it by ignoring his
> > teachings and claiming Paul had more authority.
>
> Such false accusations! I never calimned Paul had more authority than
> Yeshua. But his authority comes from Yeshua who said:
> Act 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen
> vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and
> the children of Israel:
>
> What gives you the right to deny the authority of scripture just
> because it does not agree with what you want it to say?
I happen to understand all to well about the stumbling blocks placed
before Israel.
Mat 13:41 “The Son of Aḏam shall send out His messengers, and they
shall gather out of His reign all the stumbling-blocks, and those
doing lawlessness,
That you do not understand that false council was proclaimed against
the gentiles is because you worship Paul.
Isa 14:26 “This is the counsel that is counseled for all the earth,
and this is the hand that is stretched out over all the nations.
Isa 14:27 “For Yahweh of hosts has counseled, and who annuls it? And
His hand that is stretched out, who turns it back?”
> You say you
> accept Acts and then you deny it, so you can toss out Paul, a servant
> of the Lord Jesus Christ who died for the gospel and was used mightily
> to win many souls for the Kingdom of God, inverse of what you are
> doing.
I respect you disagree, I'm not judging you, I'm attempting to inform
you.
> > In your worship of
> > all things carnal,
>
> What a terrible false accustation.
Even in your version it tells you.
Num 23:19 El is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man,
that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath
he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
Joh 4:24 “Elohim is Spirit, and those who worship Him need to worship
in spirit and truth.”
> As I said, I do not worship Paul, but you deny the word of God by
> denying that Paul is an apostle. That YHWH is God of Gods is true, but
> you deny that Yeshua is YHWH, another great error.
Only Paul says he is an Apostle. Acts only says he is a chosen vessel
and Peter says he is a brother, which includes all mankind created in
the image of Elohim.
> > Isa 45:15 Truly You are Ěl, who hide Yourself, O Elohim of Yisra’ĕl,
> > Saviour!
>
> Those who contend against the Spirit of God by maligning the apostolic
> scriptures will know in the end what they have done. The apostle Paul
> did not malign the Torah or its compassion, but he revealed what he
> was told to reveal by Jesus himself, that salvation has now come to
> the whole world by faith in the cross of Yeshua, and God has called
> all men to come to him, believe and be saved.
You believe that unless innocent blood was shed, YHWH does not save
his people. You believe that you are redeemed only because of the
murder of his Son. John says he gave his life that you might believe
when he had risen.
1Pe 3:22 who, having gone into heaven, is at the right hand of Elohim,
messengers and authorities and powers having been subjected to Him.
You do not believe Yehoshua is at the right hand of ELohim, you
believe his is the Almighty and have not believed the Apostles.
Mar 16:19 Then indeed, after the Master had spoken to them, He was
received up into the heaven, and sat down at the right hand of
Elohim.
All the evidence is in the scriptures and still you do not believe. I
do appreciate you taking all this time to speak with me.
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
Respond directly:
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/messianic_Yehoshua/
Num 6:24 “Yahweh bless you and guard you;
Num 6:25 Yahweh make His face shine upon you, and show favour to you;
Num 6:26 Yahweh lift up His face upon you, and give you peace.” ’
Footnote: Verses 24 to 26 is the Priestly Blessing.
http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download scriptures free
http://messianicyehoshua.googlegroups.com/web/RNKJV.zip <--free
download of the Restored Names King James for E-sword
http://www.e-sword.net/ Free bible software
If history is any indication, all truths will eventually turn out to
be false.
Dean Kamen
walksalone
a407-535...@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
El, it would help if you knew who �l is & was.
But you don't. You no longer have an excuse for displaying such appaling
ignorance.
Who the hell is �l.
It is possibly one the most puzzling questions ever facing the people who
follow the xian myth. The story began quite some time ago when gods were
still considered to be local, incorporate, with certain privileges and
responsibilities. The time era is a bit staggering when you think about,
at least minus 2500 Gregorian the name �l began to be circulated as the
father of time and the father of the gods. His titles are many indicating
a great antiquity.
There is a fair possibility that he came to the Canaanite society by way of
the Mespotamian society. There is artwork from the city of Ur with the
god �l seated, and wearing the horns of divinity. This is the only
occurrence that I am aware of that has that particular connotation. The
other artwork that indicates the god �l is involved lacks this particular
feature.
One is right to to be curious as to how these claims can be made about any
god, especially the original God of the current Jewish myth. It is not
that easy to find if one restricts a search to the Jewish or xian grimorie.
One has to resort to history and the science of archeology to even began to
make headway on this particular question.
The name is derived from a common Semitic word, il. This word is equated to
the word god, and requires a descriptor to identify exactly which god is
being referred to.
It would appear in that this �l is predominantly Canaanite and that society
stretched from the eastern boundary of Egypt into modern-day Iraq. The
included the land of Canaan & is more commonly accepted as a being what is
roughly current Israel. This is where the confusion begins with the claim
that the Jews or a'biru, were external to the Canaanite society. Current
archeology does not confirm this concept but indicates that the a'biru were
indigenous to the hill region, referred to as Judah or Judae. The exact
origins of this particular group of tribes is not known and the guesses
range from simple ordinary hill bandits to displaced caravaners. There is
no known exact source of information for who they were or if they
immigrated into the region.
There is no known source of information that would indicate that they are
actually invaders and not home folks. It is their original claim that �l
is their god that has caused this confusion as to who the hell �l really
is.
�l is simply the most senior God of the Canaanite pantheon and is
considered as the father of that pantheon, his mate was Asherah, the same
one the prophets were complaining about as late as Jeremiah in the Old
Testament of the self proclaimed xian grimorie. It actually is the Hebrew
Bible & seperate from the greek Testaments. His titles are rather
impressive when you think about it, from the father of time, to the wise
one, to the gray headed one, the father of the gods, and like honorifics
that indicated he was the head of the pantheon.
He was worshipped from approximately -6000 Gregorian, to approximately
minus 700 Gregorian as the head god. This relates to the actual
possibility of the a'biru being a distinctive political entity. For there
is no confirmation in written history for them prior to this, either from
their claim to enemies, or from anyone else be it merchant, king, Pharaoh
or anyone else.
As a head deity it is possible that he shares attributes that are given to
others as well. He is considered a creator, in the Mideast there are many
creators. He is considered the father of life, that is not unique either.
He is thought to reside in the abyss where the two rivers meet, which is of
course in the underground, the source of life and the gods. It is also
where the dead are returned to. His cult center were located at Tiraz,
�amaria, Bethel, Dan, as well as many local hill shrines, far too numerous
to identify every one of them. He was represented by the bull and
according to in Urgaritic texts, he may not have been the original creator
but the offspring of an older god, �leb, which loosely translates to God of
the father. In the Old Testament �l came to be used as a descriptor, and
as a qualifying term for the word Lord, a word which did not exist at that
time even though the concept did. The concept, that of a master. This
makes sense is much as their society was based on those that serve and the
masters which for them was the priesthood and the king or tribal chieftain
depending on which era was involved.
We find that even when he first began creating he was old. This can be
found in the ba �l Epic where he goes out to sea to find his wife and finds
a pair of sisters that become his wives.
The Father of the "Gods", the Creator of Created Things, The Kindly,
Kodesh. Asherah is his wife. When he was young, 'AL' ("El") went out upon
the sea, and there met Asherah and Her companion Rohmaya. He then roasted a
bird and asked them if They would be His wives or daughters. They chose to
be His wives. 'AL' ("El") mates with these "Goddesses" and Shachar and
Shalim (Dawn and Dusk) are born. This family then builds a sanctuary and
lives in the desert for eight years. This episode may be the closest we
have to a Creation story involving 'AL' ("El"). 'AL' ("El") wears bull
horns upon his helmet, and He is a grey haired and bearded patriarch. He
resides at "the Source of Two Rivers" upon Mt. Lel.
Gods of Canaan as Described by the Ugarit Tablets
The Canaanite culture originated at the same time as the Babylonian culture
out of the chaos surrounding the Semitic Amorite invasion/infiltration of
Sumeria beginning around 2,200 BC. By the time cultural stability was
restored around 1800 BC the Babylonians existed in Mesopotamia while the
Canaanites (Phoenicians) existed along the Mediterranean. Tablets
describing the Canaanite gods including BAAL were found in the ruins of the
Canaanite city of Ugarit (also known as Ras Shamra) located on the modern
coast of Lebanon. These tablets were dictated by the chief priest of Ugarit
to a scribe between 1375 and 1345 BC. The city itself was destroyed around
1200 BC by the Sea Peoples at nearly the same time that the Israelites
emerged into history.
Excerpts from the Story of Aqhat
BAAL speaking - "So, my father, EL the bull, won't you bless him? Creator
of all, won't you show him your favor?"
An action of the goddess ANAT - "She stamped her feet and left the earth;
then she headed toward EL at the source of the two rivers, in the midst of
the two seas' pools; she opened EL's tent and entered the shrine of the
King, the father of Time."
Excerpts from the Story of Kirta
The dream of patriarch Kirta - "For in his dream EL came down, in his
vision the Father of Men. Later EL says - raise your hands to heaven,
sacrifice to the bull, your father EL; serve BAAL with your sacrifice, the
son of DAGON with your provisions."
The assembly of the gods arrived, and BAAL the conqueror said: "Come now,
EL, the kind, the compassionate: bless Kirta the noble,"
EL speaking - She will bear Yassib the Lad, who will drink the milk of
ASHERAH, suck the breasts of the virgin ANAT, the two wet nurses of the
gods."
The gods pronounced their blessing and went, the gods went to their tents,
and the council of EL to their divine homes.
son of Kirta speaking to his dying father- BAAL's mountain, father will
weep for you, Zaphon, the holy stronghold, the holy stronghold will lament,
the stronghold wide and broad:
. . . BAAL's rain for the earth, and the rain of the Most High for the
fields; for BAAL's rain benefits the earth, and the rain of the Most High
the fields,
And EL the kind, the compassionate, replied: "who among the gods can expel
the sickness, drive out the disease?" . . .But none of the gods answered
him. Then EL, the kind, the compassionate, replied: "My sons, sit down upon
your thrones, upon your princely seats. I will work magic, I will bring
relief: I will expel the sickness, I will drive out the disease."
But Kirta the noble replied: "My son, may HORON smash, may HORON smash your
head, ASTARTE, BAAL's other self, your skull."
Now Mighty Baal, son of Dagon, desired the kingship of the Gods. He
contended with Prince Yam-Nahar, the Son of El. But Kindly El, Father
Shunem, decided the case in favour of His son; He gave the kingship to
Prince Yam. He gave the power to Judge Nahar.
Fearsome Yam came to rule the Gods with an iron fist. He caused Them to
labor and toil under His reign. They cried unto Their mother, Asherah, Lady
of the Sea. They convinced Her to confront Yam, to interceed in Their
behalf.
Asherah went into the presence of Prince Yam. She came before Judge Nahar.
She begged that He release His grip upon the Gods Her sons. But Mighty Yam
declined Her request. She offered favours to the Tyrant. But Powerful Nahar
softened not His heart.
Finally, Kindly Asherah, who loves Her children, offered Herself to the God
of the Sea. She offered Her own body to the Lord of Rivers.
Yam-Nahar agreed to this, and Asherah returned to the Source of the Two
Rivers. She went home to the court of El. She came before the Divine
Council, and spoke of Her plan to the Gods Her children.
Baal was infuriated by Her speech. He was angered at the Gods who would
allow such a plot. He would not consent to surrendering Great Asherah to
the Tyrant Yam-Nahar. He swore to the Gods that He would destroy Prince
Yam. He would lay to rest the tyranny of Judge Nahar.
The following is part of the Baal cycle and clearly shows the superiority
of �l
Yam-Nahar was made aware of the words of Baal. He sent His two messengers
to the court of El:
"Depart Lads!
Do not sit!
Then Ye shall surely set face
Toward the Convocation of the Assembly
In the midst of the mountain of Night.
At the feet of El do not fall,
Do not prostrate Yourselves before the Convocation of the Assembly,
But declare Your information!
And say to The Bull, My father, El,
Declare to the Convocation of the Assembly:
'The message of Yam, Your Lord,
Of Your master Judge River:
Give up, O Gods, Him whom You harbor,
Him whom the multitude harbor!
Give up Baal and His partisans,
Dagon's Son, so that I may inherit His gold!'"
The lads depart
They do not Sit.
Then They set face
Toward the Mountain of Night,
Toward the Convocation of the Assembly.
The Gods had not even sat down,
The Deities to dine,
When Baal stood up by El.
As soon as the Gods saw Them,
Saw the messengers of Yam
The emissaries of Judge Nahar,
The Gods lowered Their heads upon Their knees.
Yea, upon the thrones of Their lordships.
Baal rebukes Them:
"Why, O Gods, have Ye lowered
Your heads on top of Your knees,
Yea, upon the thrones of Your lordships?
Let a pair of Gods read the tablets of the messengers of Yam,
Of the emissaries of Judge Nahar!
O Gods, lift up Your heads
From the top of Your knees
Yea, from the thrones of Your lordships!
And I shall answer
The messengers of Yam
The emissaries of Judge Nahar!"
The Gods lift Their heads
From the top of Their knees
Yea, from the thrones of thier lordships.
After there arrive the messengers of Yam,
The emissaries of JudgeNahar.
At the feet of El They do not fall,
They do not prostrate Themselves before the Convocation of the Assembly.
Arise, for They declare Their information.
A fire, two fires!
He sees a burnished sword!
They say to The Bull, His father, El:
"The message of Yam, Your lord,
Of Your master, Judge Nahar:
'Give up, O Gods, Him whom Ye harbor,
Him whom the multitudes harbor!
Give up Baal and His partisans,
Dagon's Son, so that I may inherit His gold!'"
And The Bull, His father, El, replies:
"Baal is Thy slave, O Yam!
Baal is Thy slave O Yam!
Dagon's Son is Thy captive!
He will bring Thy tribute like the Gods.
Like the Deities, Thy gift!"
But Prince Baal was infuriated.
A knife He takes in the hand
A dagger in the right hand.
To smite the lads He flourishes it.
Anath siezes His right hand,
Astarte seizes His left hand:
"How canst Thou smite the messengers of Yam?
The emissaries of Judge Nahar?
They have merely brought the words of Yam-Nahar.
Word of Their Lord and Master."
Most people never even really knew that like humans, the young gods
replaced the old gods when the old gods were conceived as being no longer
powerful. This was to be the beginning of the decline of el as the supreme
god within the Canaanite society which included the a'biru.
So now others know & you do to.
> Joh 4:24 “Elohim is Spirit, and those who worship Him need to worship
> in spirit and truth.”
Elohim is not spirit, but gods, lots of them. 70 to be exact. But what do
you know, other than how to pretend to know more than you can show.
>> As I said, I do not worship Paul, but you deny the word of God by
>> denying that Paul is an apostle. That YHWH is God of Gods is true, but
>> you deny that Yeshua is YHWH, another great error.
Sad but true. Until Constantine needed something to unite the empire,
xianity held no power. Once he was in, & they were as well, the strife
began, just as it does today. The contest started in Alexandria & was
ripping the republic apart, so there had to be a consensus binding on all
xians. The result is today's three in one god.
BTW, trinities are common among the ancients, & the Celtic society had them
all over the place. I don't think the Celtics were guilty of this one
however.
> Only Paul says he is an Apostle. Acts only says he is a chosen vessel
> and Peter says he is a brother, which includes all mankind created in
> the image of Elohim.
Male & female he created them, IIRC. Which means more than one god
involved.
>> > Isa 45:15 Truly You are Ěl, who hide Yourself, O Elohim of Yisra
> ’ĕl,
>> > Saviour!
Not what the passgae says, or means.
>> Those who contend against the Spirit of God by maligning the apostolic
>> scriptures will know in the end what they have done. The apostle Paul
>> did not malign the Torah or its compassion, but he revealed what he
>> was told to reveal by Jesus himself, that salvation has now come to
>> the whole world by faith in the cross of Yeshua, and God has called
>> all men to come to him, believe and be saved.
> You believe that unless innocent blood was shed, YHWH does not save
Well, that is his history right up until the return from the Babylonian
vacation.
> his people. You believe that you are redeemed only because of the
> murder of his Son. John says he gave his life that you might believe
> when he had risen.
Murder? Since when is the lawful killing of traitors murder? He would
have had to be a traitor to get anything but stoneing.
> 1Pe 3:22 who, having gone into heaven, is at the right hand of Elohim,
Not what it says, repeating the lie won't make it true to anyone but you &
other weak minded people that can't read for comprehension.
> messengers and authorities and powers having been subjected to Him.
A book written after the claimed events by an unkown author, & that's all
you have. SOSSDD.
> You do not believe Yehoshua is at the right hand of ELohim, you
> believe his is the Almighty and have not believed the Apostles.
Do you believe the following?
1 But of the Jews none washed his hands, neither Herod nor any one of his
judges. And when
they had refused to wash them, Pilate rose up. And then Herod the king
commandeth that the Lord
be taken,3 saying to them, What things soever I commanded you to do unto
him, do.
2 And there was standing there Joseph the friend of Pilate and of the Lord;
and, knowing that
they were about to crucify4 him, he came to Pilate and asked the body of
the Lord for burial. And
Pilate sent to Herod and asked his body. And Herod said, Brother Pilate,
even if no one had asked
for him, we purposed to bury him, especially as the sabbath draweth on:5
for it is written in the
law, that the sun set not upon one that hath been put to death.
3 And he delivered him to the people on the day before the unleavened
bread, their feast. And
they took the Lord and pushed him as they ran, and said, Let us drag away
the Son of God, having
obtained power over him. And they clothed him with purple, and set him on
the seat of judgment,
saying, Judge righteously, O king of Israel. And one of them brought a
crown of thorns and put it
on the head of the Lord. And others stood and spat in his eyes, and others
smote his cheeks: others
pricked him with a reed; and some scourged him, saying, With this honour
let us honour the Son
of God.
4 And they brought two malefactors, and they crucified the Lord between
them. But he held
his peace, as though having no pain. And when they had raised the cross,
they wrote the title: This
is the king of Israel. And having set his garments before him they parted
them among them, and
cast lots for them. And one of those malefactors reproached them, saying,
We for the evils that we
have done have suffered thus, but this man, who hath become the Saviour of
men, what wrong hath
he done to you?
It is a gospel extract, a first/third century xikan gospel extract.
if you can't believe them, how can you believe the epicgraphic[sp] gospels
& writtings called the Greek Testaments.
> Mar 16:19 Then indeed, after the Master had spoken to them, He was
> received up into the heaven, and sat down at the right hand of
> Elohim.
Not what it says, as anyone that wants to look it can verify.
> All the evidence is in the scriptures and still you do not believe. I
> do appreciate you taking all this time to speak with me.
No, you appreciate him giving you a chance to posture & pose as you troll
the usenet xian groups. There is a differance.
But here is a chance folr you to shine & make people wonder if you are in
fact, anything but a false teacher.
walksalone who wonders, will this trigger a new P&M session, or just the
usual.
Zarathushtra asked Ahura Mazda: 'O Ahura Mazda, most beneficent Spirit,
Maker of the material world, thou Holy One!
'What is the only word in which is contained the glorification of all good
things, of all the things that are the offspring of the good principle?'
Ahura Mazda answered: 'It is the praise of Holiness (Asha: the Ashem Vohu),
O Spitama Zarathushtra!
guardian Snow
> > Num 23:19 El is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man,
> > that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath
> > he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
>
> El, it would help if you knew who Él is & was.
> But you don't. You no longer have an excuse for displaying such appaling
> ignorance.
>
> Who the hell is èl.
EL is simply a title of authority, it is not a name and means only
mighty ones.
Exo 15:11 Who is like unto thee, O YHWH, among the *mighty ones*?
translated
singin4free
> On Jul 6, 1:55 am, singin4free <jffry...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > So, while you say you love “Jesus”, you do it by ignoring his
> > > teachings and claiming Paul had more authority.
>
> > Yeshua. But his authority comes from Yeshua who said:
> > Act 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen
> > vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and
> > the children of Israel:
>
> > What gives you the right to deny the authority of scripture just
> > because it does not agree with what you want it to say?
>
> I happen to understand all to well about the stumbling blocks placed
> before Israel.
>
It seems to me you have fallen into a private interpretation , i.e. a
false teaching, not understanding.
> Mat 13:41 “The Son of Aḏam shall send out His messengers, and they
> shall gather out of His reign all the stumbling-blocks, and those
> doing lawlessness,
>
> That you do not understand that false council was proclaimed against
> the gentiles is because you worship Paul.
>
Again you falsely accuse me of Paul-worship. If I believe Paul, that
is not worship anymore than if you believe Moses makes you a worshiper
of Moses. That aside, your false interpretation is not supported by
scripture or tradition.
> Isa 14:26 “This is the counsel that is counseled for all the earth,
> and this is the hand that is stretched out over all the nations.
> Isa 14:27 “For Yahweh of hosts has counseled, and who annuls it? And
> His hand that is stretched out, who turns it back?”
>
This chapter does not speak of Paul, and you cannot connect it by any
reasonable interpretation.
> > You say you
> > accept Acts and then you deny it, so you can toss out Paul, a servant
> > of the Lord Jesus Christ who died for the gospel and was used mightily
> > to win many souls for the Kingdom of God, inverse of what you are
> > doing.
>
> I respect you disagree, I'm not judging you, I'm attempting to inform
> you.
>
> > > In your worship of
> > > all things carnal,
>
> > What a terrible false accustation.
>
> Even in your version it tells you.
>
> Num 23:19 El is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man,
> that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath
> he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
No, God is not like a son of the fallen Adam, but as the Word, he did
come to us as the Son of Man. But Yeshua the son of man was not
imperfect or fallen like the sons of Adam, and he never sinned, never
lied, and had no need to repent. He said what he meant and kept his
promises, including going all the way to the cross for us. "Discern
the times and the scriptures are plain", as Augustine said. In
Numbers, had the Word yet become flesh? Answer, no He had not. As the
eternal Word always existing with the Father, he had appeared to men
many times, but he had not yet taken on the second nature of man. This
was to happen more than a thousand years after Moses and the book of
Numbers. But even if we accept that this verse applies for all time,
that still does not mean that God as the son of man is like the fallen
sons of Adam. He was born of a virgin for a reason. And that reason
was to be the Son of God, perfect in every way.
> Joh 4:24 “Elohim is Spirit, and those who worship Him need to worship
> in spirit and truth.”
You completely ignored the discussion we had about this very verse in
my previous post. So of what good is it to labor over this issue if
you are not listening?
> > As I said, I do not worship Paul, but you deny the word of God by
> > denying that Paul is an apostle. That YHWH is God of Gods is true, but
> > you deny that Yeshua is YHWH, another great error.
>
> Only Paul says he is an Apostle. Acts only says he is a chosen vessel
> and Peter says he is a brother, which includes all mankind created in
> the image of Elohim.
Read the test again. He was "Sent" by the very words of Yeshua, and an
Apostle is a sent-out-one.
Act 22:21 And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence
unto the Gentiles.
> > > Isa 45:15 Truly You are Ěl, who hide Yourself, O Elohim of Yisra’ĕl,
> > > Saviour!
>
> > Those who contend against the Spirit of God by maligning the apostolic
> > scriptures will know in the end what they have done. The apostle Paul
> > did not malign the Torah or its compassion, but he revealed what he
> > was told to reveal by Jesus himself, that salvation has now come to
> > the whole world by faith in the cross of Yeshua, and God has called
> > all men to come to him, believe and be saved.
>
> You believe that unless innocent blood was shed, YHWH does not save
> his people. You believe that you are redeemed only because of the
> murder of his Son. John says he gave his life that you might believe
> when he had risen.
>
It is not my testimony, it is the testimony of the apostles and of God
himself that Jesus went to the cross for us and that this is the only
way to be saved, i.e. by believing that he did it for you. There is no
message in scripture more clearly given than this one. To reject it
requires great twisting or ignoring of scripture.
> 1Pe 3:22 who, having gone into heaven, is at the right hand of Elohim,
> messengers and authorities and powers having been subjected to Him.
>
> You do not believe Yehoshua is at the right hand of ELohim, you
> believe his is the Almighty and have not believed the Apostles.
>
He has ALWAYS been at the right hand of the Father, except when he
came to earth to fulfill his mission to save us from our sins by his
death on the cross. Yet even them he told us he is always with the
Father. He was in the beginning WITH God and WAS God. He is the
eternal Word of God.
> Mar 16:19 Then indeed, after the Master had spoken to them, He was
> received up into the heaven, and sat down at the right hand of
> Elohim.
>
> All the evidence is in the scriptures and still you do not believe. I
> do appreciate you taking all this time to speak with me.
And where did he sit down? Again, Revelations 22:1 -
Rev 22:1 And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as
crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
Yeshua is the eternal Word of God, eternally existent with the Father,
and alwasy at his right hand as it says in Psalm 16:
Psa 16:8 I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my
right hand, I shall not be moved.
As the Son of Man came into his glory, through the things that he
suffered, but as the Word, he was already with the Father always at
his right hand. You must remember he is fully God and fully man. He
always was with God and WAS God, but he took on the nature of man as a
second nature, and in that nature he the Son is subject to the Father.
As the Word he has the nature of YHWH from eternity. This is a great
mystery revealed to us by the apostles. It is not for argument. It is
for believing and accepting and submitting to the authority of the
apostolic teaching.
guardian Snow
> As the Son of Man came into his glory, through the things that he
> suffered, but as the Word, he was already with the Father always at
> his right hand. You must remember he is fully God and fully man. He
> always was with God and WAS God, but he took on the nature of man as a
> second nature, and in that nature he the Son is subject to the Father.
> As the Word he has the nature of YHWH from eternity. This is a great
> mystery revealed to us by the apostles. It is not for argument. It is
> for believing and accepting and submitting to the authority of the
> apostolic teaching.
As always you fall back to the mistranslation of "God". We must agree
to disagree and respect each others understandings. Take care and be
well. Elohim is plural meaning "mighty one".. we have covered that
many times now...
walksalone
b3ce-516...@y4g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
> On Jul 6, 6:11�am, walksalone <spamstop...@nerdshack.com> wrote:
snip
Through but not to snow, no one expects him to be able to understand how
to provide evidence to support his claims. After all, he hasn't done it
in the three years or so that he's been trolling Usenet. However, if the
audience is curious, then a bibliography can be provided.
>> El, it would help if you knew who �l is & was.
>> But you don't. �You no longer have an excuse for displaying such
appali
> ng
>> ignorance.
>>
>> Who the hell is �l. �
>
> EL is simply a title of authority, it is not a name and means only
> mighty ones.
Wrong again O King of the flapping lips.
Whether you like this or not, it does not mean mighty ones. And unlike
you, I can back the information up with references outside of your proof
text. Which is not proof, except of ignorance.
> Exo 15:11 Who is like unto thee, O YHWH, among the *mighty ones*?
> translated
That's not what says anybody's Bible except yours. And of course, if you
can not even get the basics right, there's no way you can interpolate
beyond that. But you don't have to, we have to dance your drum or so you
think.
> Exo 15:11 Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods?
Which is what it says for a very good reason. A Lord, could be a god or
human being. Here we have the admission that there are other gods, and,
Moses and company is polytheistic. Lord could also be a human whose
social status is in a higher social strata than you.
You have already had it pointed out to you, on more than one occasion and
by more than one person that you haven't a clue as to the proper usage of
the terms god, Lord, and various other euphemisms used for Yahweh Inc. If
you do is try to contribute, you understand why this is the case. While
the euphemisms are used, and the common people, like you, were not
permitted to use the name Yahweh. It was reserved for high priest, even
that he would be surrounded by priests who would chant or by other means
drown out what he was saying, thereby keeping the name sacred & secret.
But we must go back to who �l is, in spite of your claims, to understand
the claims being forwarded by xianity today.
That means,
Who the hell is �l.
It is possibly one the most puzzling questions ever facing the people who
follow the xian myth. The story began quite some time ago when gods were
still considered to be local, incorporate, with certain privileges and
responsibilities. The time era is a bit staggering when you think about,
at least minus 2500 Gregorian the name �l began to be circulated as the
father of time and the father of the gods. His titles are many
indicating a great antiquity.
There is a fair possibility that he came to the Canaanite society by way
of the Mespotamian society. There is artwork from the city of Ur with
the god �l seated, and wearing the horns of divinity. This is the only
occurrence that I am aware of that has that particular connotation. The
other artwork that indicates the god �l is involved lacks this particular
feature.
One is right to to be curious as to how these claims can be made about
any god, especially the original God of the current Jewish myth. It is
not that easy to find if one restricts a search to the Jewish or xian
grimorie. One has to resort to history and the science of archeology to
even began to make headway on this particular question.
The name is derived from a common Semitic word, il. This word is equated
to the word god, and requires a descriptor to identify exactly which god
is being referred to.
It would appear in that this �l is predominantly Canaanite and that
society stretched from the eastern boundary of Egypt into modern-day
Iraq. The included the land of Canaan & is more commonly accepted as a
being what is roughly current Israel. This is where the confusion begins
with the claim is that the Jews or a'biru, were external to the Canaanite
society. Current archeology does not confirm this concept but indicates
that the a'biru were indigenous to the hill region, referred to as Judah
or Judae. The exact origins of this particular group of tribes is not
known and the guesses range from simple ordinary hill bandits to
displaced caravaners. There is no known exact source of information who
they were or if they immigrated into the region.
There is no known source of information that would indicate that they are
actually invaders and not home folks. It is their original claim that �l
is their god that has caused this confusion as to who the hell �l really
is.
�l is simply the most senior God of the Canaanite pantheon and is
considered as the father of that pantheon, his mate was Asherah, the same
one the prophets were complaining about as late as Jeremiah in the Old
Testament of the xian grimorie. His titles are rather impressive when
you think about it, from the father of time, to the wise one, to the gray
headed one, the father of the gods, and like honorifics that indicated he
was the head of the pantheon.
He was worshipped from approximately -6000 Gregorian, to approximately
minus 700 Gregorian as the head god. This relates to the actual
possibility of the a'biru being a distinctive political entity. For
there is no confirmation in written history for them prior to this,
either from their claim to enemies, or from anyone else be a merchant,
king, Pharaoh or anyone else.
As a head deity it is possible that he shares attributes that are given
to others as well. He is considered a creator, in the Mideast there are
many creators. He is considered the father of life, that is not unique
either. He is thought to reside in the abyss where the two rivers meet,
which is of course in the underground, the source of life and the gods.
It is also where the dead and returned to. His cult center were located
at Tiraz, �amaria, Bethel, Dan, as well as many local hill shrines, too
numerous to identify every one of them. He was represented by the bull
and according to in Urgaritic texts, he may not have been the original
creator but the offspring of an older god, �leb, which loosely translates
to God of the father. In the Old Testament �l came to be used as a
descriptor, and as a qualifying term for the word Lord, a word which did
not exist at that time even though the concept did. The concept, that of
a master. This makes sense is much as their society was based on those
that serve and the masters which for them was the priesthood and the king
or tribal chieftain depending on which era was involved.
We find that even when he first began creating he was old. This can be
found in the ba �l Epic where he goes out to sea to find his wife and
of �l
But of course, you cannot shall where this is not the case, or the proper
usage and therefore, is simply flap your gums and attempt to distract
attention from the fact that you have no answers to history.
Here is another thing you're good at avoiding, supporting your word.
walksalone who does know the difference between evidence provided &
evidence claim. Even though it's more than apparent snow does not, and
cannot be asked to learn. It might bruise his delicate ego.
Scriptures: The sacred books of our holy religion, as distinguished
from the false and profane writings on which all other faiths are based.
Ambrose Bierce
walksalone
a5a6-4b4...@a37g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
> On Jul 6, 8:46�am, singin4free <jffry...@gmail.com> wrote:
Through but not to snow, after all, if he offers nothing for the
audience, why should anyone else.
>> As the Son of Man came into his glory, through the things that he
>> suffered, but as the Word, he was already with the Father always at
>> his right hand. You must remember he is fully God and fully man. He
>> always was with God and WAS God, but he took on the nature of man as a
>> second nature, and in that nature he the Son is subject to the Father.
>> As the Word he has �the nature of YHWH from eternity. This is a great
>> mystery revealed to us by the apostles. It is not for argument. It is
>> for believing and accepting and submitting to the authority of the
>> apostolic teaching.
>
> As always you fall back to the mistranslation of "God". We must agree
Actually, you are the one trying to take your mistranslation of god and
make the standard for everyone else. It's not
> to disagree and respect each others understandings. Take care and be
> well. Elohim is plural meaning "mighty one".. we have covered that
> many times now...
Actually, you have. A plural would mean mighty ones for starters, it is
not what Elohim means. You have failed as always, to provide supporting
evidence for your claims. Because all you can do, it's all any blowhard
can do, is flap your gums & sunburn your tongue and spread your confusion
as best you can.
And here's think you're confused on, in your definitions work for anyone
that does not hold your very confused point of view.
Yes, it's snow job time.
walksalone realizes that snow cannot measure up to being a good Usenet
poster. It does require skills he does not have and possibly cannot
acquire. Still, he could try and salvage his reputation, if he has one
worth salvaging. But even that he cannot do. It might put his faith in
the deep doodoo.
Faith is deciding to allow yourself to believe
something your intellect would otherwise cause
you to reject, otherwise there's no need for faith.
guardian Snow
> > As always you fall back to the mistranslation of "God". We must agree
> > to disagree and respect each others understandings. Take care and be
> > well. Elohim is plural meaning "mighty one".. we have covered that
> > many times now...
>
> Actually, you have. A plural would mean mighty ones for starters, it is
> not what Elohim means.
An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation,
nor does truth become error because nobody sees it.
Mohandas Gandhi
walksalone
8db5-b81...@x5g2000prf.googlegroups.com:
> On Jul 6, 9:56�am, walksalone <spamstop...@nerdshack.com> wrote:
wsith arms akimbo & moving spasmodically snow does his look at me dance,
but we aren't supposed to do anything but admire his false teachings, or
so he appears to think. It's not working.
>> > As always you fall back to the mistranslation of "God". �We must
agre
> e
>> > to disagree and respect each others understandings. �Take care and
be
>> > well. �Elohim is plural meaning "mighty one".. we have covered that
>> > many times now...
>>
>> Actually, you have. A plural would mean mighty ones for starters, it
is
>> not what Elohim means.
>
> An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation,
But that does not stop you from trying it & pretending that is spite of
the history of the word, you are right & everyone else is wrong. But
they are not, nor am I.
This is for you, It's Not Working.
> nor does truth become error because nobody sees it.
Unfortunately for you, you are not able to show where that applies to
your constant lying & posturing.
You see, you have been given access to the truth, & you don't like what
is going to follow, you run from it.
> Mohandas Gandhi
Who also said he liked your christ, but not christians. They are so
unlike the christ.
BTW am I to understand you want a short essay on elohim? I don't
recommend it, but I can do it.
I can even defend good & evil as entities, which of course you can't.
walksalone who has to wonder, is snow in it for anything, or just ego
stroking?
Losing your faith is a lot like losing your virginity you
don't realise how irritating it was 'til it's gone.
Ted L
> On Jul 3, 4:36 pm, singin4free <jffry...@gmail.com> wrote:
"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever"
Hebrews 1:8
guardian Snow
You don't think their is more then one place of authority for the one
GIVEN authority?
Mat 28:18 And Yahushua came and spake unto them, saying, All power is
given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also,
because he is the Son of man.
Mat 20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and
be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my
right hand, and on my left, IS NOT MINE TO GIVE, but it shall be given
to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.
You would have to wonder what type of Almighty deity would tell you
things are not his to give. The ALMIGHTY YAHWEH would simply say:
Psa 110:1 YHWH said unto my Master, Sit thou at my right hand, until I
make thine enemies thy footstool.
Psa 110:2 YHWH shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule
thou in the midst of thine enemies.
Why do none of you believe your own scriptures?
http://messianicyehoshua.googlegroups.com/web/RNKJV.zip <--free
download of the Restored Names King James for E-sword
Num 6:24 “Yahweh bless you and guard you;
Num 6:25 Yahweh make His face shine upon you, and show favour to you;
Num 6:26 Yahweh lift up His face upon you, and give you peace.” ’
Footnote: Verses 24 to 26 is the Priestly Blessing.
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
Respond directly:
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/messianic_Yehoshua/
http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download scriptures free
walksalone
98fa-476...@2g2000prl.googlegroups.com:
> On Jul 6, 12:37�pm, Ted L <tedl...@ymail.com> wrote:
>> On Jul 3, 6:50�am, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
>>
>> > On Jul 3, 4:36 pm, singin4free <jffry...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever"
>> Hebrews 1:8
How cute, two trolls going at it. Hebrews, is not an epistle of Saul if
if memory serves me correctly. Supposedly, none of the pastorial letters
are.
Through but not to snow. He's too busy admiring himself in the mirror.
> You don't think their is more then one place of authority for the one
> GIVEN authority?
Normally, no. However, the Hebrew Bible and Testament require doublets
and therefore, and therefore one finds at least two supposed authorities
for any given situation.
> Mat 28:18 And Yahushua came and spake unto them, saying, All power is
> given unto me in heaven and in earth.
A book written in support of the emerging xian mythology can be expected
to be accepted as an authority by anybody who thinks for themselves. You
of course are excluded.
> Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also,
> because he is the Son of man.
The Son of Man, an interesting phrase. One you are not familiar with in
context, along many.
> Mat 20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and
> be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my
> right hand, and on my left, IS NOT MINE TO GIVE, but it shall be given
> to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.
In first century Judea, all Jews were the sons of various gods found
within their mythology.
> You would have to wonder what type of Almighty deity would tell you
> things are not his to give. The ALMIGHTY YAHWEH would simply say:
Ah, but it's a mystery, or at least that's the answer I receive from
people attempt to explain the conflicts within the Greek Testament as
well as the Hebrew Bible. Actually no & you are trying to put words in
the mouth of Yahweh. Bad dog, no biscuit.
> Psa 110:1 YHWH said unto my Master, Sit thou at my right hand, until I
> make thine enemies thy footstool.
That's not read a passage reads, and that's not the context. The problem
you have with taking things out of context, many people do realize that
that's exactly what you are doing and will call you on it. Of course, if
you assume they are too stupid, then anything goes.
> Psa 110:2 YHWH shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule
> thou in the midst of thine enemies.
Now, who sang the Psalm? & what is the Psalm about. Certainly not what
you mean to imply. You ever read in context?
> Why do none of you believe your own scriptures?
Because they don't interpolate them up way you do?
Self-serving advertisement for vanity group.
Now here is something that supposedly you can deal with in context. Not
that anyone believes you can by now.
walksalone who sincerely doubts that snow will ever really attempt to
honestly address his mistakes and support them with evidence. Quite
possibly, this is not his fault. He has noticed evidence is not in the
same category as, I said so.
ATYS OF PHRYGIA CRUCIFIED, 1170 B.C.
Speaking of this crucified Messiah, the Anacalypsis informs us that
several histories are given of him, but all concur in representing him as
having been an atoning offering for sin. And the Latin phrase "suspensus
lingo," found in his history, indicates the manner of his death. He was
suspended on a tree, crucified, buried and rose again.
singin4free
> > On Jul 6, 12:37 pm, Ted L <tedl...@ymail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 3, 6:50 am, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
> > "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever"
> > Hebrews 1:8
> You don't think their is more then one place of authority for the one
> GIVEN authority?
That is exactly the point of the author of Hebrews: That Yeshua is
YHWH. He IS the One place of authority. He is the Word of YHWH (God
the Creator), eternally existent with YHWH, and IS YHWH (John 1:1),
who took on a second nature and became man, and dwelt (tabernacled)
among us. (John 1:14). And in Revelations 22:1 he is the Lamb who sits
on the throne of God and of the Lamb. Only one throne is mentioned not
two: Rev 22:1 And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear
guardian Snow
I'm always grateful for you attempting to share your understanding
with me. I respect that you believe you are correct but as I continue
to read the Hebrew text, I find your understanding can't agree with
what the Hebrew text says.
Post as you see fit but recognize that I do not consider "God" the
correct understanding. I have tried to point out to you that fact and
you do not care to share understanding with me... you only wish to
tell others as you know the truth... I have a lot of respect for you
and I hope you understand this... I recognize that your faith is great
and I will not dissuade you from your endeavors.
BUT... if you wish to sway my opinion at all then exchange the
corrupted word. If you are attempting to speak to me... learn to
speak my language. At the very least, say deity.
I've tried to show you that G-d points to Baal worship and I will not
acknowledge this. I apologize if this seems stubborn to you.
singin4free
No problem. Perhaps the original is best. FYI, there is a newly
digitized online Codex Sinaiticus, the oldest complete Bible in
existence. You can find it at:
http://www.codexsinaiticus.org.
- singin4free
εν αρχη ην ο λογος και ο λογος ην προς τον θν και θς ην ο λογος
(Κατα' 'Iωάννην 1:1)
singin4free
No problem - perhaps the original is the best:
En arche en ho Logos, kai ho Logos pros ton Theon, kai Theos en ho
Logos
(Κata Ioannen 1:1)
FYI, the Codex Sinaiticus (the oldest manuscript of the Bible, with a
complete New Testament, mid-4th century) has been digitized and put on
line at:
http://www.codexsinaiticus.org
- singin4free
guardian Snow
>
> FYI, the Codex Sinaiticus (the oldest manuscript of the Bible, with a
> complete New Testament, mid-4th century) has been digitized and put on
> line at:http://www.codexsinaiticus.org
>
> - singin4free
Thanks for the FYI but the Hebrew codex is older, the dead sea scrolls
are dated at the time of Yehoshua and it says kai YHWH ho Logos. Why
do you not believe Moses and the prophets?
Joe 2:32 “And it shall be that everyone who calls on the Name of
Yahweh shall be delivered. For on Mount Tsiyon and in Yerushalayim
there shall be an escape as Yahweh has said, and among the survivors
whom Yahweh calls.
Joe 2:32 “And it shall be that everyone who calls on the Name of יהוה
shall be delivered1. For on Mount Tsiyon and in Yerushalayim there
shall be an escape2 as יהוה has said, and among the survivors whom
יהוה calls. Footnotes: 1Acts 2:21, Rom. 10:13. 2Isa. 4:2-3, Obad. v.
17, Rev. 14:1.
Rev 3:12 “He who overcomes, I shall make him a supporting post in the
Dwelling Place of My Elohim, and he shall by no means go out. And I
shall write on him the Name of My Elohim and the name of the city of
My Elohim, the renewed Yerushalayim, which comes down out of the
heaven from My Elohim, and My renewed Name.
singin4free
the dead sea scrolls
are dated at the time of Yehoshua and it says kai YHWH ho Logos
Where did you get this information? There is no gospel of John in the
Dead Sea scrolls. In fact, scholars are hard put to link any of the
Dead Sea scrolls to the early Christians.
singin4free
guardian Snow
You have google, search it out if you want to know.
Luk 23:38 And there was also an inscription written over Him in
letters of Greek, and Roman, and HEBREW: THIS IS THE SOVEREIGN OF THE
YEHUḎIM.
Luk 24:47 and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be
proclaimed in HIS NAME to all nations, beginning at Yerushalayim.
Act 21:40 And when he had given him licence, Paul stood on the stairs,
and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a
great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue, saying,
You don't even have to leave the canon to know they SPOKE HEBREW.
Even one of the conversion stories of Paul
Act 26:14 And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice
speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why
persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Yahushua cried with a loud voice,
saying,
Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? <===Hebrew
that is to say, My Elohim, my Elohim, why hast thou forsaken me?
G2241
ἠλί
ēli
ay-lee'
Of Hebrew origin ([H410] with pronoun suffix); my God: - Eli.
singin4free
Frankly if it said YHWH instead of Theos that would be fine with me,
but it doesn't. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with
YHWH and the Word WAS YHWH. That is fine with me. Yeshua is YHWH. YHWH
is the Creator. Theos means God. YHWH is God Almighty.
There is nothing in the Dead Sea scrolls that indicates the word is
YHWH. You can substitute it if you like, but it will always be
paraphrase, not translation.
guardian Snow
> Frankly if it said YHWH instead of Theos that would be fine with me,
> but it doesn't. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with
> YHWH and the Word WAS YHWH. That is fine with me. Yeshua is YHWH. YHWH
> is the Creator. Theos means God. YHWH is God Almighty.
>
> There is nothing in the Dead Sea scrolls that indicates the word is
> YHWH. You can substitute it if you like, but it will always be
> paraphrase, not translation.
Clearly you haven't actually seen any reliable sources because I've
seen the Scrolls personally and I can tell you that the name of YHWH
is recorded in the ancient text.
But you're also dismissing the NT evidence.
Mar 15:34 And at the ninth hour Yehoshua cried out with a loud voice,
saying, “Ěli, Ěli, lamah sheḇaqtani?”1 which is translated, “My Ěl,
My Ěl, why have You forsaken Me?”
Footnote: 1In Hebrew - “Eli, Eli lamah azaḇtani” - as per Ps. 22:1.
The fact that Yehoshua has a deity is proof. Yahweh would never cry
out to another.
Isa 45:22 “Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth! For I
am Ěl, and there is none else.
You are working overtime to ignore the evidence that is right before
your eyes.
Mat 20:23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and
be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my
right hand, and on my left, IS NOT MINE TO GIVE, but it shall be given
to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua <-- join
http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download the scriptures free
or
http://messianicyehoshua.googlegroups.com/web/RNKJV.zip <--free
download of the Restored Names King James Version
Life is a gift, and it offers us the privilege, opportunity, and
responsibility to give something back by becoming more.
Tony Robbins
singin4free
> On Jul 8, 12:35 pm, singin4free <jffry...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Frankly if it said YHWH instead of Theos that would be fine with me,
> > but it doesn't. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with
> > YHWH and the Word WAS YHWH. That is fine with me. Yeshua is YHWH. YHWH
> > is the Creator. Theos means God. YHWH is God Almighty.
>
> > There is nothing in the Dead Sea scrolls that indicates the word is
> > YHWH. You can substitute it if you like, but it will always be
> > paraphrase, not translation.
>
> Clearly you haven't actually seen any reliable sources because I've
> seen the Scrolls personally and I can tell you that the name of YHWH
> is recorded in the ancient text.
>
Not in the gospel of John chapter 1:1 from any Dead Sea scroll. That
would have made headline news. If you are so confident, why don't you
point us to it instead of telling us to search for it on Google?
guardian Snow
> > Clearly you haven't actually seen any reliable sources because I've
> > seen the Scrolls personally and I can tell you that the name of YHWH
> > is recorded in the ancient text.
>
> Not in the gospel of John chapter 1:1 from any Dead Sea scroll. That
> would have made headline news. If you are so confident, why don't you
> point us to it instead of telling us to search for it on Google?
You are forgetting that Yehoshua quoted the Hebrew Bible and that when
he spoke "Eli, Eli" he was speaking of YAHWEH written of by Moses. On
14 different occasion in the book of John, he quoted the Torah and
Psalms and we have the original language that he was quoting, Hebrew.
All one has to do is match the two sources and we have the true
understanding of what was written.
Joh 10:34 Yehoshua answered them, “Is it not written in your own
Torah, ‘I said, “You are elohim” ’?
Psa 82:6 I, I said, “You are elohim, And all of you are sons of the
Most High.
Psa 82:7 “But as men you die, And fall as one of the heads.”
He would not have said what was written and then lied about what was
written or do you accuse the Messiah of misquoting scriptures?
Barry OGrady
>�� ���� �� � ����� ��� � ����� �� ���� ��� �� ��� �� �� � �����
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>
Barry
=====
Home page
http://members.iinet.net.au/~barry.og
guardian Snow
Modified text of Prince:
2009... and the illusion continues. One begs to ask - "when will it
end?"
Unnatural disasters happen seemingly every week. Train and car
crashes, shootings, rapes, WAR; is there any place of refuge one can
flee from this insanity?
Very few of mankind's creations are designed to make you feel good,
unless you get pleasure from seeing the human body desecrated by guns,
explosions, fights, and any other things these so- called "artists"
create. In the name of freedom, many have used art as a means to
destroy the human mind. As an excuse to continue we hear
"Art reflects society".
How many times has this lie been repeated: "these creations are not
real", they say and yet any one of these people can call to mind
images and complete scenes of utter horror in graphic detail.
They will carry these so-called "unreal" creations around with them
for the rest of their lives. These images are now a part of their
being. In the name of RECREATION these people in fact are re-creating
themselves in their own images.
SOCIETY THEN REFLECTS ART.
In man's decision are further separate from YAHWEH, his re-creation of
himself leaves him in a dysfunctional state of confusion. The mind
becomes a burial ground for dead waste. Isolated from the wholeness of
Elohim, Earth and his fellow brothers and sisters, this man seeks
solace in activities he thinks will stimulate his mind. He begins to
downloading into his brain a series of man made creations designed to
destroy it. All man made creations originate from one of two sources:
the Tree of Knowledge or the Tree of Life. One of these trees
contained deadly fruit, the other - Fruit of Everlasting Life. The one
who disregards this fact recreates himself and his kind into
extinction.
You are reading these words on a machine created by men. As you read,
the words that you perceive, They make sense to you because you
understand (stand under) the SPELLing. The words are what binds this
SPELL to your illusion. When you hear the truth, like a memory - you
recognize it and this recognition releases you from ALL illusion. Many
languages are brilliant in their attempt to CONfuse you. CON meaning:
against, fuse meaning: together.
Words and their SPELLbinding illusions have the power to keep man
separate from Yahweh. You were born in an all-knowing state of mind.
The first words spoken to you begin the SPELL. The words come from one
of two sources: the Tree of Knowledge or the Tree of Life.
In ignorance or simply lack of respect for Yahweh, many use words that
CONfuse the minds of humans and turn them into projections of their
own illusions. Because of this fact, many people grow up and blindly
assume their pre-selected role under a dictatorship without even being
aware of it.
When asked what they are doing here on earth, most will answer with
statements that do not reflect their natural Elohim-given desires.
This creates a pyramid-like structure with the dictator on top, and
each level under it knowing less and less. Upon reaching the bottom
level - which is where the majority is, you will find chaos, disorder,
and illusion. With ILL as its prefix, ILLusion is a state of
insanity.
In the name of democracy, supreme power is vested unto the people in
this insane state instead of Yahweh. A future re-created, to be ruled
by man, is one of isolation and despair. Returning the leadership back
to Yahweh will allow mankind to achieve its original collective goal
which is union under Yahweh. Ideas contrary to this goal should not be
blamed or persecuted - just simply ignored.
Mat 15:13 But He answering, said, “Every plant which My heavenly
Father has not planted shall be uprooted.
Mat 15:14 “Leave them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And
if the blind leads the blind, both shall fall into a ditch.”
Mat 15:15 And Kĕpha answering, said to Him, “Explain this parable to
us.”
Mat 15:16 And יהושע said, “Are you also still without understanding?
Mat 15:17 “Do you not understand that whatever enters into the mouth
goes into the stomach, and is cast out in the sewer?
Mat 15:18 “But what comes out of the mouth comes from the heart, and
these defile the man.
Mat 15:19 “For out of the heart come forth wicked reasonings, murders,
adulteries, whorings, thefts, false witnessings, slanders.
Mat 15:20 “These defile the man, but to eat with unwashed hands does
not defile the man.”
They originated when man first chose to ignore Yahweh's rule. Simply
put - in the beginning, the Human was made perfect in Elohim's image.
They had no need for knowledge.
They were also given freedom of choice. The Tree of Knowledge and the
Tree of Life are reflections of this freedom. The human is now a
reflection of their choice. They could have simply chose not to
choose. Yahweh being centrifugal in nature, freedom was the CAUSE and
choice was the EFFECT. In knowing their perfection made in Yahweh's
image, there was no need to choose. In fact, there were NO NEEDS.
There was only love in a faithful state before the fall. The worst
thing you can do is give up your Elohim-given right to choose. For in
it - you can choose not to choose. Therein is the final judgment. The
illusion ceases and you awaken from your dream. Now the healing
begins. With your mind, made in Elohim's image you may create as
Yahweh intended. With love, honor and respect for every living thing
created by Yahweh in the universe. With Uni as the prefix meaning one
and verse being a spirit of the word you can understand, Death and
life are in the power of the tongue. Create your power removed from
influence that is from men and then you will be free.
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
'Men have forgotten this truth,' said the fox. 'But you must not
forget it. You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed.'
And now here is my secret, a very simple secret; it is only with the
heart that one can see rightly, what is essential is invisible to the
eye.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery
http://www.e-sword.net/ <-- best free bible program
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua <-- join
http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download the scriptures free
or
http://messianicyehoshua.googlegroups.com/web/RNKJV_W.zip <--free
download of the Restored Names King James Version
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua
I heard you say you're feelin' like a change now
Maybe, baby this could be arranged now
But I warn you that no exotic scenery
Will solve your problems or make you feel easy
You say you're happy, but I see apprehension
That little laugh of yours doesn't hide the tension
The precious book you clutch so tightly in your hands
Won't help you sleep at night, won't iron out your plans
You gotta Fight It Out with your heart
You got to Fight It, though it tears you apart
You got to Fight It Out, my friend
You got to do it for yourself
You got to say when
Pat Benatar - Fight it out
dolf
pay for her crimes.
singin4free
You have stated that there is a Hebrew scroll of John somewhere in the
Dead Sea scrolls and that you have actually seen this scroll with your
own eyes. Where is it please.
guardian Snow
Sorry... I don't have the time to find it for you online and I don't
care to. If you don't believe the evidence within the canon and you
don't believe Moses and the Prophets and you accuse the Messiah of
misquoting the Hebrew scriptures which easily predate all the new
covenant why would I bother?
Do you see where I would not spend even a minute trying to show you?
You don't care what the truth is. You care about defending what you
think you know.
guardian Snow
> > > Exodus 4:16 (NIV)
> > > He will speak to the people for you, and it will be as if he were
> > your
> > > mouth and as if you were God to him.
>
> Hebrew ONLY had 3 tenses 3
> standard= niether good nor evil
> derogatory= evil
> amplitory= Good Holy
> no Masculine nor feminine
> no past present, past , nor future.
> all Hebrew is written in the now
> no singular nor plural genders
> these are later inventions of later languages.
> the Aramaic, and koine greek didn;t have them
> either
> many were not even in the Original latin of
> constantines day.
I agree with you but even in the 3 tenses of speech it was clear that
while there were many EL, there is only one most high, Yahweh and he
created all things good and evil.
Thanks for your valued input into the conversation Sam. I'm grateful
for your insight.
walksalone
aa57-6b4...@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com:
> On Jul 9, 5:37�pm, "Sam Taylor" <cyg...@cncnet.com> wrote:
> From: guardian Snow <snowp...@eck.net.au>
We interrupt this courting session bring snow a reminder, unfortunately, it
must be through the to snow because he's busy trying to court someone new.
>> > > Exodus 4:16 (NIV)
>> > > � � �He will speak to the people for you, and it will be as if
> he were
>> > your
>> > > mouth and as if you were God to him.
>>
>> Hebrew ONLY had 3 tenses 3
Verbs have tenses, nouns do not. Names are nouns, proper nouns. In today's
polite society, they are capitalized, in the ancient near East, they were
not.
>> standard= niether good nor evil
>> derogatory= evil
>> amplitory= �Good Holy
>> no Masculine nor feminine
>> no past present, past , nor future.
>> all Hebrew is written in the now
>> no singular nor plural genders
>> these are later inventions of later languages.
>> the Aramaic, and koine greek didn;t have them
>> either
>> many were not even in the Original latin of
>> constantines day.
>
> I agree with you but even in the 3 tenses of speech it was clear that
You stay in the state of confusion. There were more than three tenses of
speech, and nouns can be both masculine and feminine at the same time, such
as Elohim the
> while there were many EL, there is only one most high, Yahweh and he
There was only one �l, however, there were many manifestations of �l has
witnessed many names using �l as a descriptor. Eloah, El[shaddy] Shaddy,
etc.. Each one of these was the god, unique from all the other gods with
the same name being used in their name. They are distinctive as well as
local. This is the context, historical, factual, as demonstrated by the
naming conventions for the gods throughout the region. Even more than
simply pump gasoline for a living you figured that out by reading in
context.
> created all things good and evil.
Then there are no entities known as good and evil, there simply creations
of your imagination. All are you going to pretend he pulled a Adam and
Lilith routine just to dazzle the audience? It does matter what you are
going to tend, in this matter what you can show to be reasonable
conclusions based on the evidence, such as it is, present in the Hebrew
Bible. A skill you're singularly lacking in. Well that and critical
thinking where your mythology is concerned course.
> Thanks for your valued input into the conversation Sam. I'm grateful
> for your insight.
And the audience will thank you be grateful for your insight if you would
simply answer the damn questions that you raised & continue to avoid.
walksalone would've assumed it to be a trivial thing to defend the position
that snow has attempted to take, if one is capable of being context that
is. But there's a very strong chance that snow will never realize what that
context is, it does not fit his definition of reality.
What is it the Bible teaches us?�rapine, cruelty, and
murder. What is it the Testament teaches us?�to believe
that the Almighty committed debauchery with a woman
engaged to be married, and the belief of this debauchery
is called faith.
Thomas Paine
singin4free
A few days ago I thought I could speak with you reasonably. I was
apparently wrong. You have lapsed into complete dishonesty. You cannot
have ever seen a scroll with your own eyes of John in Hebrew from
among the Dead Sea scrolls. There simply isn't one. I won't badger you
about it, don't worry. But I won't be forgetting this episode. I now
have seen a side of you I was too naive to see before.
guardian Snow
What you fail to understand is that Yehoshua qoutes Isaiah and
Deuteronomy in the book of John and we do have the original text that
predates all others dated by science to have been a community about
the time of our Messiah.
Since we know what was quoted, we know what John should read based on
comparing the quotes. I did not say John was at this community, most
likely because John had not been written yet being one the later books
written.
Jer 2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me
the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken
cisterns, that can hold no water.
Having these other books of the Dead Sea Scrolls shows us the local
insight and no longer should we rely on "interpretation" when we have
the source of the quotes. Why know the quoter when you can go to the
well for that living water?
bwme...@toast.net
<snowp...@eck.net.au> wrote:
>You cannot
>> have ever seen a scroll with your own eyes of John in Hebrew from
>> among the Dead Sea scrolls. There simply isn't one. I won't badger you
>> about it, don't worry. But I won't be forgetting this episode. I now
>> have seen a side of you I was too naive to see before.
>
>What you fail to understand is that Yehoshua qoutes Isaiah and
>Deuteronomy in the book of John and we do have the original text that
>predates all others dated by science to have been a community about
>the time of our Messiah.
So, what he DOES NOT "fail to understand" is his statement above that
you have never seen such a scroll with your own eyes . . .?
Bob
Sam Taylor
"walksalone" <spams...@nerdshack.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9C432F7...@188.40.43.213...
these devoloped in Time.......
AND that Time was AFTER your scriptures were penned.
HEBREW HAS NO SUCH TENSES,AND GENDERS
in fact HEBREW HAS NO VOWELS IN IT EITHER.
> murder. What is it the Testament teaches us?-to believe
Sam Taylor
all they had, they had no lower cases
EL,El, and el were by usage, but all written in CAPS.
"walksalone" <spams...@nerdshack.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9C432F7...@188.40.43.213...
> What is it the Bible teaches us?-rapine, cruelty, and
> murder. What is it the Testament teaches us?-to believe
Jon R
> "walksalone" <spamstop...@nerdshack.com> wrote in message
>
> news:Xns9C432F7...@188.40.43.213...
>
>
>
> > guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote in news:9165445c-d416-4044-
> > aa57-6b426fb6b...@t11g2000prh.googlegroups.com:> > > From: guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au>
> > witnessed many names using Él as a descriptor. Eloah, El[shaddy] Shaddy,
> > etc.. Each one of these was the god, unique from all the other gods with
> > the same name being used in their name. They are distinctive as well as
> > local. This is the context, historical, factual, as demonstrated by the
> > naming conventions for the gods throughout the region. Even more than
> > simply pump gasoline for a living you figured that out by reading in
> > context.
>
> > > created all things good and evil.
>
> > Then there are no entities known as good and evil, there simply creations
> > of your imagination. All are you going to pretend he pulled a Adam and
> > Lilith routine just to dazzle the audience? It does matter what you are
> > going to tend, in this matter what you can show to be reasonable
> > conclusions based on the evidence, such as it is, present in the Hebrew
> > Bible. A skill you're singularly lacking in. Well that and critical
> > thinking where your mythology is concerned course.
>
> > > Thanks for your valued input into the conversation Sam. I'm grateful
> > > for your insight.
>
> > And the audience will thank you be grateful for your insight if you would
> > simply answer the damn questions that you raised & continue to avoid.
>
> > Newsgroups:
>
> alt.religion.christian.baptist,alt.christnet.christianlife,alt.messianic.ye
>
>
>
> > shua,alt.bible,alt.messianic
> > Subject: The battle of Good and Evil
> > Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 09:40:13 -0700 (PDT)
> > Organization:http://groups.google.com
> > Lines: 127
> > Message-ID: <829f0745-9db9-4340-a809-
Jon: Of course not Jesus Father is the almighty.
guardian Snow
> On Thu, 9 Jul 2009 06:23:25 -0700 (PDT), guardian Snow
>
I don't need to see the book of John to know what Moses and the
Prophets said. What I know is that in John, it qouted Psalms, Duet.,
Isaiah and several other more ancient books that are in the Dead Sea
scroll canon that I have seen with my own eyes. I go to the source of
living water and not just the translation of it.
Jer 17:13 O Yahweh, the expectation of Israĕl, all who forsake You are
put to shame. “Those who depart from Me shall be written in the earth,
because they have forsaken Yahweh, the fountain of living waters.”
guardian Snow
> Verbs have tenses, nouns do not. Names are nouns, proper nouns. In today's
> polite society, they are capitalized, in the ancient near East, they were
> not.
All rules that do NOT apply to Hebrew. Again you illustrate your
inability to recognize the difference between Hebrew and English.
walksalone
> On Jul 9, 7:44�pm, walksalone <spamstop...@nerdshack.com> wrote:
Through but not to snow, alas the lad is admiring himself. And after such
a stellar display of ignorance of the English language, I'm not sure but
what he deserves it.
>> Verbs have tenses, nouns do not. Names are nouns, proper nouns. In
>> today'
> s
>> polite society, they are capitalized, in the ancient near East, they
>> were not.
>
> All rules that do NOT apply to Hebrew. Again you illustrate your
All rules that do not apply to Hebrew? & which rules would those be. None
that you have shown to exist, and simply another claim by you.
> inability to recognize the difference between Hebrew and English.
It is easy to recognize the difference between Hebrew and English, it's
even easier to mistranslate those differences. However, I'm not the one
that pretends to be a Hebrew speaking/reading scholar such as you are
pretending to try to be. When I must engage in the Hebrew language, I use
a work of those that are paid for what they know and not what they can
claim. That leaves you out. Now, if you have nothing else to do decide to
posture and preen in public, you can start to remove the mantle of being
a liar and a false teacher by responding to the following. Not that
anyone expects you to mind you, but you could do it. And of course, I can
overnight, replicate the statue of David by Michael Angelo using those
same standards.
alt.bible,aus.religion.christian,alt.religion.christian.biblestudy,alt.me
ssianic.yeshua,alt.religion.christian.baptist
walksalone who probably has accidentally learn more about the usage of
the Hebrew language and snow will accumulate in his lifetime. As one
studies mythology, one learns the darndest things, because they have to.
And frankly, those things do not coincide with what one believes to be
the truth of the matter. Reality is funny that way, it's simply is no
matter what you want, or I want. And that's the way should be.
All religions are the same: religion is basically guilt, with different
holidays. -Cathy Ladman, comedian, writer, actress (1955- )
singin4free
I have Good News for you Snow - the gospel, is fulfillment of Old
Testament prophecy and in addition to that it is NEW! The gospel
writers, including John OF COURSE QUOTED THE PROPHETS and the PSALMS
and MOSES! How else could they explain the NEW THING that YHWH was
doing when he sent his Son into the world? Tobe the Messiah he had to
fulfill prophecy.But more than that, YHWH was revealing a mystery that
had been kept secret from the foundation of the world. John 1:1 is not
a quote from the Torah or Prophets or Psalms. It is a Prologue
introducing this new Person to us in terms that explain his nature and
his mission. John goes to great detail to tell us that we have been
visited by our Creator, who's creative Word is eternal and IS Him and
has become flesh in order to dwell among us and fulfill his mission to
establish his new covenant as the fulfillment of the promise to
Abraham, i.e., that in him ALL THE NATIONS OF THE WORLD WOULD BE
BLESSED. Not just Israel, but ALL the NATIONS. John tells us that he
knows who Yeshua is: he is YHWH made manifest in the flesh. The word
"dwell" means "to tabernacle" (make his tent with us). Just as the
Spirit of YHWH filled the temple of Solomon and was present among the
Israelites between the cherubim in the Holy of Holies, behind the
veil, so now the Spirit of YHWH dwelt in the body of Yeshua and walked
among his people, teaching them: he was the embodiment of the wisdom
and glory of YHWH as it says: "And we beheld his glory". It was the
time of visitation, but the time was brief. Yeshua told his disciples
he would be crucified.Caiaphas prophesied that it was expedient that
one die for the whole nation. Not only did he die for the whole
nation, he died for the whole world. The perfect embodiment of YHWH,
the express image of the Father, sang out from the cross the Psalm of
his ancestor David: "My Elohim, My Elohim, why have you forsaken me?"
Was he truly forsaken, being the Son and having been with YHWH and
indeed BEING YHWH? As the Son of Man he WAS forsaken for that brief
moment in time. He was fully man, and YHWH allowed him to "give up the
ghost", i.e that man DIED, really died, not appeared to die. At that
moment the veil of the temple split from top to bottom. Why? Because
he had DONE IT! He had finished his mission. IT WAS FINISHED. He had
become the propitiation for our sins, and not only ours but also the
sins of the whole world. The power of the devil was defeated once and
for all. There was no longer a barrier between YHWH and man. Man could
again commune with YHWH as he had in the garden before the fall of
Adam. The means of access to YHWH is now through the glorified and
risen Son. And JOYFULLY this good NEWs was sent out into all the world
through the apostles, who taught us all that he had said and how to
live under the NEW COVENANT IN HIS PRECIOUS BLOOD. We are saved by
faith in him: in the mystery of faith: Messiah has died, Messiah has
risen, Messiah will come again. The mystery kept secret from ages
immemorial is now revealed to us. So the GOSPEL IS NOT JUST THE
PROPHETS, who told us about things to come so that we would believe.
It is also NEW REVELATION from YHWH himself about salvation by his
grace trough faith in his Son. The Torah has not been altered it has
been FULFILLED IN YESHUA. YESHUA is our Torah - The Word of YHWH. We
come to YHWH through his Word indeed. And his Word that he sent out
DID NOT RETURN TO HIM VOID. He accomplished his mission and now sits
upon the throne where he sat from the beginning, as YHWH's Word, who
cannot be separated from him. And he has taken on a new nature too,
that of the Son of Man so that in addition to owning all things in
heaven and on earth, he has the right to all that belongs to David and
is the heir of all the promises of YHWH to him and to Abraham and all
the patriarchs. HE REIGNS! HE is KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS!
Yeshua the Messiah is our Savior, according to the will of YHWH.
Therefore he calls all men to COME TO YESHUA TO BE SAVED. For it is
only in his Name that we are saved and none other. It does not
dishonor YHWH to honor the Son, because as John told us he IS YHWH. He
alone has the power to save, to heal to deliver and to judge all men.
Yeshua, the Messiah, the Son of YHWH is now with us as we read and
write. closer than your next breath. monitoring your heartbeat. Stop
and be aware of the presence of his Spirit now. and know that he calls
us to himself just as it says:
Isa 55:1 “Come, everyone who thirsts, to the waters! Come, he who has
no money, buy, and eat! Yes, come, buy wine and milk without money and
without price.
Isa 55:2 Why do you spend money for that which is not bread? and your
labor for that which doesn’t satisfy? listen diligently to me, and eat
you that which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness.
Isa 55:3 Turn your ear, and come to me; hear, and your soul shall
live: and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure
mercies of David.
The sure mercies of David refers to the promise of eternal forgiveness
that YHWH made to him. That promise belongs now to all who will come
to Yeshua in faith believing. And then Yeshua will give then the water
of life freely as it says:
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that
heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever
will, let him take the water of life freely.
Come to him and be saved all you lands:
Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth:
for I am El, and there is none else.
Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in
righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall
bow, every tongue shall swear.
The word that has gone out to all the lands is the Good News of Yeshua
the Messiah. Come to him and be saved. It is the will of YHWH that
every knee bow and every tongue confess that Yeshua the Messiah is
Lord.
Do you need this new revelation from YHWH, the Good News? YES! Man
lives by every Word that comes out of the mouth of YHWH.
Barry OGrady
Where did those trees come from?
>Mat 15:15 And K?pha answering, said to Him, �Explain this parable to
>us.�
>Mat 15:16 And ????? said, �Are you also still without understanding?
God certainly made a mess of things and left us to clean up the mess.
No wonder you want nothing to do with God. You are ashamed that
a supreme being could be so ridiculous.
You could be like Gladys; Pretend God is good but acknowledge we
must care for ourselves.
>(�.�� (�.� (Snow(.�.�*��)
Barry
Sam Taylor
that mean they were a Trinity also?
NO WAY the text referes to them in the state of there
Holiness unto the ways of YHWH
NOT SINGULAR NOR PLURAL!
Even saul (King saul) and most named in Scripture.
"Jon R" <jer...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b107c17d-07bc-4101...@r33g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> > There was only one �l, however, there were many manifestations of �l has
> > witnessed many names using �l as a descriptor. Eloah, El[shaddy] Shaddy,
guardian Snow
> Just because something is written in a Xtian book
> DOES NOT MAKE IT SO!!!
> G-D translated from EL is NOT SINGULAR nor PLURAL since Hebrew has no such
> tenses!"walksalone" <spamstop...@nerdshack.com> wrote in message
>
> news:Xns9C44361...@62.141.42.83...
>
> > guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote in
Well, plural in the sense that it can speak of quantity or value. Like
might and mighty and EL mightiest.
guardian Snow
> Do you need this new revelation from YHWH, the Good News? YES! Man
> lives by every Word that comes out of the mouth of YHWH.
I am so impressed. Unity is in the spirit.
Mar 12:29 And Yahushua answered him, The first of all the commandments
is, Hear, O Israel; YHWH is our Elohim, YHWH is one:
Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love YHWH thy Elohim with all thy heart, and
with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength:
this is the first commandment.
Take care and be blessed singin4free. I completely agree with this
last statement.
singin4free
That is a start, anyway.
guardian Snow
We have always had a start and a finish, we only disagree on canon and
translation of what we consider "inspired".
Pro 19:25 Beat a scoffer, and the simple is made wise; And reprove one
who has understanding, And he discerns knowledge.
Pro 19:26 He who plunders a father, Chases away his mother, Is a son
causing shame and bringing reproach.
Pro 19:27 Cease, my son, to hear discipline, And you shall stray from
the words of knowledge.
singin4free
I think besides the canon and translations, there are other essentials
that we have not yet agreed on, for example, the deity of the Messiah,
the meaning of the cross and his blood, the resurrection, and
salvation by grace through faith.
Joh 9:35 Yeshua heard that they had cast him out; and when he had
found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of YHWH?
Joh 9:36 He answered and said, Who is he, Sir, that I might believe on
him?
Joh 9:37 And Yeshua said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is
he that talketh with thee.
Joh 9:38 And he said, Rabbi, I believe. And he worshipped him.
This man was no theologian. He only knew one thing: Yeshua had healed
him, and for that reason he believed. May we too have this simple
faith in the Son of YHWH.
guardian Snow
If the Spirit of YHWH comes upon a man and he does a healing by that
spirit, should you worship that man? It should be noted that at no
point in the Good News does Yehoshua ever call on men to worship him
and in fact he tells them to worship the Father.
Joh 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers
shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father
seeketh such to worship him.
You seem to have a really hard time getting past these verses.
I see our differences as your focused on the carnal and I'm focused on
the spiritual message and yet we both are believers and I have a lot
of respect for you.
singin4free
It depends on what you call spiritual. Do you think the body is
unspiritual? Where is the body of Yeshua today? In heaven, correct? So
is his body not real? No, his body is real and has become like the
bodies we who believe will be given at the resurrection. There are
bodies that are carnal, mortal and corruptible, i.e. the ones we have
now, but there are also bodies that are spiritual and incorruptible.
The resurrection is when we who are mortal will put on immortality and
we who are in corruptible bodies will put on the incorruptible. But
for now we have the seal or earnest or guarantee of these promises in
the Spirit that is given to us who believe in Yeshua. Your
understanding of what is spiritual is limited by preconceived notions,
I think. Do not think that spiritual bodies are akin somehow to
mythological gods or beings. That which is to come has only been
revealed in part as of now, but we know that Yeshua is the first born
of many brethren, and when we see him we shall be like him.
guardian Snow
It would seem that you agree with me that Yehoshua had a carnal
corruptible body. Do you believe that YHWH is corruptible? Do you
believe that Satan could tempt YHWH with his own creation?
singin4free
His body was formed mortal (for a divine purpose) but now is immortal,
as ours will be at the resurrection. As I have said before, he is
fully man, and also fully divine. The eternal Word who was in the
beginning with YHWH and WAS YHWH took on a second nature, being made
for a season a little lower than the angels (i.e. as man is a little
lower than the angels) for this specific reason: that he might taste
death for every man. And now we see Yeshua crowned with glory and
honor. His body will never die and is spiritual not carnal. And as the
Word he has always been with YHWH and IS YHWH. As we know he was
presented with a temptation, but he did not succumb to it. That Satan
would even try to tempt the Word made flesh shows that even Satan was
not fully aware of who he was dealing with until the heel came down on
his head and the promise of Gen 3:15 was fulfilled.
guardian Snow
> > It would seem that you agree with me that Yehoshua had a carnal
> > corruptible body. Do you believe that YHWH is corruptible? Do you
> > believe that Satan could tempt YHWH with his own creation?
>
> His body was formed mortal (for a divine purpose) but now is immortal,
> as ours will be at the resurrection. As I have said before, he is
> fully man, and also fully divine. The eternal Word who was in the
> beginning with YHWH and WAS YHWH took on a second nature, being made
> for a season a little lower than the angels (i.e. as man is a little
> lower than the angels) for this specific reason: that he might taste
> death for every man.
Unfortunately, that is Pauline logic and not what the prophets taught
and so, as always, your doctrine ends up quoting Paul and not the
Messiah, unless of course you are willing to confess that Paul is YOUR
MESSIAH.
We have been down this road a thousand times and still you continue to
parrot the same Roman garbage that I know to be a lie:
Rom 5:12 For this reason, even as through one man sin did enter into
the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men,
because all sinned –
This is a lie and if people knew the Torah they would not believe
this:
Deu 24:16 “Fathers are not put to death for their children, and
children are not put to death for their fathers, each is to die for
his own sin.
Eze 18:20 “The being who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the
crookedness of the father, nor the father bear the crookedness of the
son. The righteousness of the righteous is upon himself, and the
wrongness of the wrong is upon himself.
Next verse,
Rom 5:13 for until the Torah, sin was in the world, but sin is not
reckoned when there is no Torah.
The Torah has been since the beginning, Apostle John recognized this
and spoke of it:
1Jn 2:7 Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command
which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word
which you heard from the beginning.
This is confirmed in the Torah;
Gen 4:7 “If you do well, is there not acceptance? And if you do not do
well, sin1 is crouching at the door. And its desire is for you, but
you should master it.” Footnote: 1Sin (transgression of the law) was
already then known, as we also read in 39:9.
Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them
that had not sinned after the similitude of Adams transgression, who
is the figure of him that was to come.
This goes against the teachings of the Messiah:
Mar 12:26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read
in the book of Moses, how in the bush YHWH spake unto him, saying, I
am the Elohim of Abraham, and the Elohim of Isaac, and the Elohim of
Jacob?
Mar 12:27 He is not the Elohim of the dead, but the Elohim of the
living: ye therefore do greatly err.
You see, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are alive and death did not rule
over them. They all predated Moses! How can I really confirm Paul is
wrong?
Rom 14:9 For to this end the Messiah both died, and rose, and revived,
that he might be Sovereign both of the dead and living.
Paul says that Yehoshua is “Sovereign of the dead”!
Mat 24:15 “So when you see the ‘abomination that lays waste,’1 spoken
of by Dani’ĕl the prophet, set up in the set-apart place” – he who
reads, let him understand –
Mat 24:16 “then let those who are in Yehuḏah flee to the mountains.
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua <-- my site
“Hi. It's me. I know you're out there. I know you're working as
fast as you can to catch me. I thought I should call and let you know
how things stand. I know you're real proud of this world you've built,
the way it works, all the nice little rules and such, but I've got
some bad news. I've decided to make a few changes.”
Neo – The Matrix
http://www.e-sword.net/ Free bible software
http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download the scriptures free
or
http://messianicyehoshua.googlegroups.com/web/RNKJV_W.zip <--free
download of the Restored Names King James Version
An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation,
nor does truth become error because nobody sees it.
Mohandas Gandhi
Jonathan Schattke
> I have Good News for you Snow - the gospel, is fulfillment of Old
> Testament prophecy and in addition to that it is NEW!
What's this? You come preaching a God I do not know, to worship it.
Deuteronomy 13 tells me what to do to you. All your promises of peace
and joy and ending the LAW are LIES.
guardian Snow
> The eternal Word who was in the
> beginning with YHWH and WAS YHWH took on a second nature, being made
> for a season a little lower than the angels (i.e. as man is a little
> lower than the angels)
YHWH is not made and he does NOT CHANGE.
Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also,
because he is the Son of man.
Num 23:19 El is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man,
that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath
he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
Joh 4:24 “Elohim is Spirit, and those who worship Him need to worship
in spirit and truth.”
Mal 3:6 For I am YHWH, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are
not consumed.
You always IGNORE what John and all the prophets taught so you can
preach Paul. One man who by his own word was crafty, lied and a chief
sinner.. him you follow instead of all the prophets, Moses and
Yehoshua who told you to take up his burden and wear his yoke.
Gal 5:1 In the freedom with which Messiah has made us free, stand
firm, then, and do not again be held with a yoke of slavery.
Mat 11:29 “Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am meek and
humble in heart, and you shall find rest for your beings.
Why do you rebel against the Yoke of the Messiah?
singin4free
> On Jul 15, 6:27 am, singin4free <jffry...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The eternal Word who was in the
> > beginning with YHWH and WAS YHWH took on a second nature, being made
> > for a season a little lower than the angels (i.e. as man is a little
> > lower than the angels)
>
> YHWH is not made and he does NOT CHANGE.
>
His Word is creative though. It goes out from him (and is him) and
causes to be that which has never been. ("without him nothing was made
that has been made") Therefore if the Word of YHWH becomes a man by a
virgin, that is YHWH's power not a change of the divine nature. Now,
you can argue all you want but you cannot get away from the fact that
John wrote "and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us", and before
that he said in John 1:1, "the Word was with YHWH and the Word WAS
YHWH". It does not say the Word created a baby. It says the Word
BECAME flesh and we beheld HIS glory. So, Yeshua is the Word, and the
Word is YHWH.
> Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also,
> because he is the Son of man.
>
> Num 23:19 El is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man,
> that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath
> he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
Indeed, YHWH promised by his own arm to save his people, and he did.
He visited his people and they did not even know who he was. "He came
unto his own and his own received him not".
> Joh 4:24 “Elohim is Spirit, and those who worship Him need to worship
> in spirit and truth.
Yes, we must receive the gift of the Holy Spirit if we are to worship
him in truth. The unregenerate person cannot perceive the things of
the Spirit of YHWH, neither can he know them for they are spiritually
discerned. "Where should we worship?", asked the Samaritan woman of
Yeshua. He said the day is coming when men will no longer worship in
Jerusalem or in Samaria but in Spirit and in Truth. This he spoke of
what was about to transpire - he would send the Holy Spirit to those
who believe in him. We worship in the Spirit, that is where. It is we
who are in the spirit if the Spirit of YHWH dwells in us. And only
then can we worship in Truth, because the Truth dwells in us.
> Mal 3:6 For I am YHWH, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are
> not consumed.
>
I agree YHWH does not change. But he changes us. The Word becoming
flesh did not change YHWH. But by doing so YHWH fulfilled his promise
made in Gen 3:15 and he saved us by his own arm as he for us in Isaiah
59:15-16 "and YHWH saw it, and it displeased him that there was no
justice. And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was
no intercessor: therefore his own arm brought salvation for him; and
his own righteousness, it sustained him."
> You always IGNORE what John and all the prophets taught so you can
> preach Paul. One man who by his own word was crafty, lied and a chief
> sinner.. him you follow instead of all the prophets, Moses and
> Yehoshua who told you to take up his burden and wear his yoke.
>
> Gal 5:1 In the freedom with which Messiah has made us free, stand
> firm, then, and do not again be held with a yoke of slavery.
>
> Mat 11:29 “Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am meek and
> humble in heart, and you shall find rest for your beings.
>
> Why do you rebel against the Yoke of the Messiah?
I see no contradiction of Yeshua in what Paul says regarding freedom.
Yeshua said the Son would make you free indeed. What did he mean by
that? He did not come to destroy the Law but to fulfill it, and he
DID. He has brought in the Perfect Law of Liberty as James called it.
The law of Messiah is the yoke that we are talking about. This is not
anti-Torah but it is exactly what you have been talking about without
understanding it: it is worship in the Spirit! Since you reject that
YHWH has made a new covenant with his people, you don't understand
this. It is bondage to be a slave to rituals when the heart is not
engaged. It might as well be paganism. YHWH hates it. But he does not
hate it when the heart is engaged. That is what the sermon on the
mount shows us. It is from the heart that all sin proceeds. It is the
heart that needs to be created anew. It is the heart of man that is
desperately wicked. We are beyond repair but not beyond being born
again of the Spirit. And if we are born again, we are alive in a new
way, no longer slaves to carnal things. We are truly free to worship
in Spirit.
Joh 8:31 Then said Yeshua to those Jews which believed on him, If ye
continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you
free.
Joh 8:33 They answered him, We be Abrahams seed, and were never in
bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
Joh 8:34 Yeshua answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,
Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the
Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free
indeed.
Joh 3:3 Yeshua answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto
thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of YHWH.
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is
old? can he enter the second time into his mothers womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5 Yeshua answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man
be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom
of YHWH.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is
born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound
thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so
is every one that is born of the Spirit.
I see why you are angry at Paul, because he makes it very clear that
the written Law is not binding on the spiritual, born again man,
because he is a new creature in the Messiah. But that is exactly what
Yeshua was saying when he said the day was coming when people would no
longer worship in Jerusalem, but in Spirit and in Truth. Jerusalem is
the seat of the temple and the Law. But a greater than the temple was
here: "But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the
temple." (Mat 12:6). Because all the Law and the Prophets is fulfilled
in the Messiah, if he makes you free from sin you are free indeed.
Yeshua said whoever sins is a slave to sin. Interestingly that is the
same thing Paul said:
Rom 6:15 What then? Shall we sin, because we are not under law, but
under grace? May it never be!
Rom 6:16 Don’t you know that to whom you present yourselves as
servants to obedience, his servants you are whom you obey; whether of
sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?
So you see, Paul, a bondservant of Yeshua, did not contradict his
master at all. He is trying to show you that life in the Spirit is not
contradictory to the Law. The Law and the Spirit agree. The problem is
man's heart, and only by being born again of the Spirit can man be
reconciled to YHWH. The Law cannot do that. It is good but it points
out the condition you are in, and since you are unable to fully obey
the Law, it becomes your judge rather than your Savior. The real
remedy is to become a new creature with a heart that loves to serve
YHWH.
guardian Snow
> On Jul 14, 5:52 pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
>
> > On Jul 15, 6:27 am, singin4free <jffry...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > The eternal Word who was in the
> > > beginning with YHWH and WAS YHWH took on a second nature, being made
> > > for a season a little lower than the angels (i.e. as man is a little
> > > lower than the angels)
>
> > YHWH is not made and he does NOT CHANGE.
>
> His Word is creative though. It goes out from him (and is him) and
> causes to be that which has never been. ("without him nothing was made
> that has been made") Therefore if the Word of YHWH becomes a man by a
> virgin, that is YHWH's power not a change of the divine nature.
You’re not taking into account the fact that John also says that
Elohim is SPIRIT. As much as we can go back and forth on this same
issue, you fail to recognize that ALL creation is the word as it says
in Genesis 1. That Elohim created all things has never been disputed
and neither is the idea that Yehoshua was a man with the spirit of
YHWH in him.
As I have continued to attempt to point out to you, the spirit of YHWH
is in no way limited to a single carnal vessel of Yehoshua and
according to John, it is possible that all men become one with YHWH.
Joh 17:21 so that they all might be one, as You, Father, are in Me,
and I in You, so that they too might be one in Us, so that the world
might believe that You have sent Me.
The reason this is an important distinction is because when Yehoshua
breathed HIS SPIRIT into his disciples, they did not become YHWH but
rather ONE WITH YHWH.
Joh 20:22 And having said this, He breathed on them, and said to them,
“Receive the Set-apart Spirit.
Just because men received the set apart spirit and had the ability to
heal men and cast out demons, did not mean that they were now YHWH
just as the Messsiah Yehoshua was not YHWH but simply one with his
spirit just as he tells you in John 17:21.
< Now,
> you can argue all you want but you cannot get away from the fact that
> John wrote "and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us", and before
> that he said in John 1:1, "the Word was with YHWH and the Word WAS
> YHWH".
That the word became flesh is nothing new. Read Genesis 1 and you’ll
find the same account of Adam.
Gen 1:26 And Elohim said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to
Our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea, and over the
birds of the heavens, and over the livestock, and over all the earth
and over all the creeping creatures that creep on the earth.”
Elohim spoke and came to be in his image and the flesh dwelled in the
garden.
You also fail to take into account that Yehoshua was the Son of Eve.
Gen 3:15 “And I put enmity between you and the woman, and between your
seed and her Seed. He shall crush your head, and you shall crush His
heel.” Footnote: 1First promise of the Messiah.
YHWH is not the seed of his own creation, he is the Almighty Creator.
You are not going to change me and I am not going to change you… We
have had this discussion a dozen times now and it’s to the point that
I’m saving this file for the next time you toss out these same points
which seems to be a monthly issue with you.
Joh 5:30 “Of Myself I am unable to do any matter.
Joh 5:31 “If I bear witness of Myself, My witness is not true.
With YHWH, all things are possible and he can do any matter. This is
not the word of YHWH, it is the word of Yehoshua. YHWH can swear by
himself and his witness is true, Yehoshua does not have that
authority.
Isa 45:23 “I have sworn by Myself, a word has gone out of My mouth in
righteousness, and shall not return, so that to Me every knee shall
bow, every tongue swear.
You also fail to take into account that Yehoshua, in heaven says he
has a deity 4 times in one verse in Revelation and he is numbered
among the 144,00 that bear the mark on his forehead.
Rev 14:1 And I looked and saw a Lamb standing on Mount Tsiyon, and
WITH HIM one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father’s
Name1 written upon their foreheads. Footnote: 1Some texts read: having
His Name and His Father’s Name.
The most conclusive proof is the fact that they [including the lam]
sing BEFORE THE THRONE of YHWH.
Rev 14:3 And they sang a renewed song before the throne
Now I realize that because you are steadfast in your dogma, you will
not except this and as I have pointed out, we should agree to
disagree. Take care and be blessed
Shalom,
*´¨)
¸.•´ ¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.• (Snow(.¸.•*´¨)
http://groups.google.com/group/messianicYehoshua <-- join
http://www.isr-messianic.org/ <- download the scriptures free
or
http://messianicyehoshua.googlegroups.com/web/RNKJV.zip <--free
download of the Restored Names King James Version
Life is a gift, and it offers us the privilege, opportunity, and
responsibility to give something back by becoming more.
Tony Robbins
Barry OGrady
>If the Spirit of YHWH comes upon a man and he does a healing by that
>spirit, should you worship that man? It should be noted that at no
>point in the Good News does Yehoshua ever call on men to worship him
>and in fact he tells them to worship the Father.
If the spirit of YHWH comes upon a man and he does an evil act
should we condemn that man? Should we condemn YHWH?
>I see our differences as your focused on the carnal and I'm focused on
>the spiritual message and yet we both are believers and I have a lot
>of respect for you.
You're determined not to learn English yet you think you can teach
proper names.