The JW bible, John 1:1

[Michael Christ]

JW.org Scriptures
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and
the Word was a god.

It doesn't even look right, let alone sound right.

So, which God made all things? The God or another a god?

(KJV)
John 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and
the Word was God.
John 1:2  The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing
made that was made.

There is only One God.

Here is a fun fact for you, "God" is written 4473 times in the KJV and I
can't find one instance of God (Creator of all things) ever being
referred to as "a god (little g). :-).

But then along came a bunch of "constant sinners" known as the Jehovah's
Witnesses (bullshit) and made one up to suit their sinner perfectionism,
in true sinner Christian style!




Michael Christ

--
God is God

Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord. John
10:30  I and Father are one. If you can't see that the Lord Jesus is the
everlasting Father you are not born again and can't see the Kingdom of God.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

Psalms 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt
are they, and have done abominable iniquity: there is none that doeth good.

Proverbs 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that
hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul, and mind. An abomination. Therefore,
sin is not what you do; it is what you are."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free and free indeed with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them."

"You can't prove anything because everything depends on a person's
willingness to believe."

"Atheists are ultimately trying to be pointlessness, meaninglessness,
and purposelessness in their point, meaning, and purpose."

"The last day of creation will be the last day of time. God is always
full of hope."

"The veil of the temple was rent in twain, not to have a book pass
through it so that you could play God."

"A phylactery does not a heart for God make. Not back then, and not today."

"No one in heaven is better (or higher) than what makes it heaven. Such
is the love of God."

"The definition of an atheist: A man full of bluster and bullshit
pretending he is the meaning of life."

"Free will is not power; it is the choice that I allow; that choice is
still according to my power," says the Lord.

What does a fool do? A fool looks for a "nothing" in a "something" in
order to explain the existence of existence.

"Unless you do all because He is who He is, all your religion is in vain."

"Every man is subject to God; He judges every man, and He is reality.
 What a gift in a fallen world!"

"Love MUST be a choice or it is nothing but a law!"

"Why were all men born sinners? So that God could reveal Himself, so
that we would behold the glory of God, and that we should bring forth
the glory of God"

"God does not and will not arbitrate for any man to love Him! If God
isn't everything to you, He is nothing to you where the rubber meets the
road."

"It is the unforgivable sin not to love God with all your heart, soul,
and mind. What do you have that is lasting? It is not so much being
punished; it is what you are left with."

"Love isn't worth anything without first a free will choice for God to
birth it in a man."

"The point of salvation: desperation. Anything less than that is
self-righteousness."

"A sinner is not a believer in God, a sinner is a believer in sin."

"A piece of dirt is not the promised land; that is only a reflection.
The promised land is knowing Me, says the Lord."

"It is all about God or it is all about idolatry."

"The Lord Jesus is coming soon. He has always come soon."

"There is no revolving door of self-worship in a son of God's life!"

"There is no such thing as random!"

"You can't truly love without it being with all your heart."

"No one can see God without their whole heart. Unless you can see God,
you know nothing."

"You can't learn God, God has to reveal Himself to you."

[James]

On Thu, 8 Feb 2024 10:32:11 +1100, Michael Christ
<michaelm...@outlook.com> wrote:

>JW.org Scriptures
>John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and
>the Word was a god.
>
>It doesn't even look right, let alone sound right.

To Michael Christ's readers,

Translators should not go by how some things looks, or by how it
sounds. Rather they should go by what IS WRITTEN, and the grammar
rules that accompany it.

>
>So, which God made all things? The God or another a god?

See for yourself:

(Genesis 1:1) In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
(NWT)

Yes, GOD created all things.

>
>(KJV)
>John 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and
>the Word was God.
>John 1:2  The same was in the beginning with God.

If a person is WITH someone, there are TWO people present, not one.

>John 1:3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing
>made that was made.

Is it "by" or "through"

-- Revised Standard
John 1:3 all things were made through him, and without him was not

anything made that was made.

Notice Strong's Concordance:

"Strong's Ref. # 1223

Romanized dia
Pronounced dee-ah'

a primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through (in very
wide applications, local, causal, or occasional):"

So according to Strong, "through" is the primary definition.

Thus, God created all things THROUGH Jesus. But how did Jesus come to
exist:

Simple, God created Jesus first. A direct creation; God to Jesus:

-- Revised Standard
Revelation 3:14 "And to the angel of the church in La-odicea write:
'The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning
of God's creation.

And verified by the apostle Paul:

-- Revised Standard
Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born
of all creation;

So according to the Bible, after Jesus was created by God, God used
him somehow in all the rest of God's creations.

>
>There is only One God.

The Bible agrees with you here:

-- American Standard
Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah:

>
>Here is a fun fact for you, "God" is written 4473 times in the KJV and I
>can't find one instance of God (Creator of all things) ever being
>referred to as "a god (little g). :-).

I agree. Jehovah God usually has the definite article "the" in front
of it:
Thus "the God" identifies Almighty God from other gods.

>
>But then along came a bunch of "constant sinners" known as the Jehovah's
>Witnesses (bullshit) and made one up to suit their sinner perfectionism,
>in true sinner Christian style!

So why do JW's translate it as "a god"? To lie and deceive everyone?
That would be ridiculous. But other translations apparently did. But
you can see for your self.

At John 1:1, in Greek that passage contains the word "god" [theos]
twice. They didn't have capitol letters in that Greek. So to make our
Creator stand out from the other theos', the definite article "the"
(ho) is added before theos. Notice this interlinear Greek as it is
written: John 1:1:

"In beginning was the Word and the Word was toward the God, and god
was the Word.
(The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures)

NOTICE THE GREEK WORD "HO" (the) IS BEFORE THE 1ST THEOS (god), BUT
NOT THE 2ND THEOS (god)

Thus the 1st theos means "God", and the 2nd theos means "god".
So based on this rule of Greek grammar, "a god" is a proper rendering.

"John L. McKenzie (Catholic Biblical scholar) wrote that ho Theos is
God the Father, and adds that John 1:1 should be translated "the word
was with the God [=the Father], and the word was a divine being.""
(https://www.google.com/search?q=John+1%3A1+%22ho+theos%22)


"The Greek theon in “the word was toward the god,” is in the
accusative case ending and has the definite article (Gr. ho; English
the) preceding it. It is correctly translated, “the Word was with God”
in English.

However, the 3rd clause in the verse contains theos in the nominative,
singular form without an article: “and god was the word.” As
controversial as it may sound to trinitarians, it is correctly
translated as “and a god was the Word.” A minimal literal (“formal
equivalence”) translation would rearrange the word order to match the
proper English expression: “And the Word was a god.”"
(https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-the-Greek-words-theon-and-theos-in-John-1-1)

" A. In NT (New Testament) Greek the word used for "God" and "a god"
is theos (qeoV). [BSTGreek font (and symbol font) used at times]

B. The Gospel writers (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John) always used the
article "the" (o with a tiny "c" above it in NT Greek: oJ ) with
theos when they intended "God." That is, when they meant to say "God"
they would always write ho theos (oJ qeoV). [This does not always hold
true for other Greek forms of "God" e.g. theou (qeou) or theon (qeon)
or theo (qew).]"
(https://www.theology.edu/journal/volume5/jw.html)

Sincerely James
Wonderful news!
Go to jw.org
2/11/2024



>
>
>
>
>Michael Christ

[Robert]

On Feb 12, 2024, James wrote
(in article<3smksi1ed61kblt4f...@4ax.com>):

> Thus, God created all things THROUGH Jesus. But how did Jesus come to
> exist:
>
> Simple, God created Jesus first. A direct creation; God to Jesus:

You have no proof to that.

At the very least you are now admitting that Jesus IS God.

[Michael Christ]

On 13/02/2024 11:32 am, James wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Feb 2024 10:32:11 +1100, Michael Christ
> <michaelm...@outlook.com> wrote:
>
>> JW.org Scriptures
>> John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and
>> the Word was a god.
>>
>> It doesn't even look right, let alone sound right.

Constantly sinning James wrote:
> To Michael Christ's readers,
>
> Translators should not go by how some things looks, or by how it
> sounds. Rather they should go by what IS WRITTEN, and the grammar
> rules that accompany it.

Woooooooossssshhhhhhhh. And I hear that all the time from perfection
sinners! :-). They have an incredible perfection when it comes to what
is written and regarding the grammar and meaning of words. :-). Amazing
accuracy in their sin, and never missing the mark! :-).

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, there isn't more than One God, Sinner James.

Period. There is no such thing as an additional JW "a god."

Carry on sinning some place else, preferably within the containment of
your religion.

Thank you, thank you very much.

Just because God came in the flesh, that does not make Him an extra god
or a lessor god.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Your religion! Yes, I know, it is flawlessly sinner personified that has
no sin. :-). Good luck with that!





Michael Christ

"No sinner is sinless in any way."

"Only God is life; only the Kingdom of God of His "Nature" is life."

[pyotr filipivich]

Robert <rob...@no.way> on Mon, 12 Feb 2024 16:37:23 -0800 typed in
alt.christnet.christianlife the following:

>On Feb 12, 2024, James wrote
>(in article<3smksi1ed61kblt4f...@4ax.com>):
>
>> Thus, God created all things THROUGH Jesus. But how did Jesus come to
>> exist:
>>
>> Simple, God created Jesus first. A direct creation; God to Jesus:
>
>You have no proof to that.

Neither does Robert.

It is difficult to dismiss a novel or unique interpretation of
scripture when one has no authoritative statement of what is and isn't
the right teaching; of what is the proper and correct interrelation of
the text, other than one's own perspective.

>
>At the very least you are now admitting that Jesus IS God.

But what sort of god? A human being adopted as by The God to be a
lesser God? An incarnation into human flesh of a preexisting deity?
Or someone who only appeared among us as a human being?
Believing that Jesus is God was not a major issue in New Testament
times, only what sort of god Jesus was.
Nowadays, the problem is convincing people that the human Jesus
was also a god.
--
pyotr
After the war two Army Chaplains were mustering out. The one said to
the other "Chaplain, it has been a real pleasure serving God with you.
You in your way, and I in His."

[Robert]

On Feb 13, 2024, pyotr filipivich wrote
(in article<uf6nsi9h71v2pkgs5...@4ax.com>):

> Robert <rob...@no.way> on Mon, 12 Feb 2024 16:37:23 -0800 typed in
> alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
> > On Feb 12, 2024, James wrote
> > (in article<3smksi1ed61kblt4f...@4ax.com>):
> >
> > > Thus, God created all things THROUGH Jesus. But how did Jesus come to
> > > exist:
> > >
> > > Simple, God created Jesus first. A direct creation; God to Jesus:
> >
> > You have no proof to that.
>
> Neither does Robert.

Of course not, since the Word of God does not teach it.

>
>
> It is difficult to dismiss a novel or unique interpretation of
> scripture when one has no authoritative statement of what is and isn't
> the right teaching; of what is the proper and correct interrelation of
> the text, other than one's own perspective.

That is true for all unregenerated people, those who have not been born again
and therefore cannot walk in the spirit.

But those who walk in the Spirit do not walk alone, for the Heavenly Father
is always in touch with us via His Holy Spirit. Those who walk in their own
perspective, walk in the flesh and their carnal nature.

>
> >
> > At the very least you are now admitting that Jesus IS God.
>
> But what sort of god? A human being adopted as by The God to be a
> lesser God? An incarnation into human flesh of a preexisting deity?
> Or someone who only appeared among us as a human being?
> Believing that Jesus is God was not a major issue in New Testament
> times, only what sort of god Jesus was.
> Nowadays, the problem is convincing people that the human Jesus
> was also a god.

All peoples of this world walk in their time (AD) while the New Covenant is
in force. Not everyone accepts that truth as you point out. The belief that
Jesus is God is not held by those who lack Faith or have rejected him.

[servant]

John 1:1, Using the New World Translation to Refute JW Teaching

https://carm.org/jehovahs-witnesses/using-the-new-world-translation-to-refute-the-new-world-translation-john-11/

[Michael Christ]

On 15/02/2024 7:15 am, servant wrote:
> John 1:1, Using the New World Translation to Refute JW Teaching
>
> https://carm.org/jehovahs-witnesses/using-the-new-world-translation-to-refute-the-new-world-translation-john-11/

That is why I said...

"It doesn't even look right, let alone sound right.

So, which God made all things? The God or another a god?"

The JW Sinner Version is obviously not right; it's wrong. It doesn't
even look right, let alone sound right on the first casual pass. That,
of course, goes right over sinner James head and he makes up some
shallow bullshit straw man about what 'looks like and sounds like,' as
usual.

Oh that sinner James!. He has got a lot to answer for!

through it so that a sinner could play God."

"A sinner is not a believer in God; a sinner is a believer in sin."

[James]

On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 08:06:29 +1100, Michael Christ
<michaelm...@outlook.com> wrote:

>On 15/02/2024 7:15 am, servant wrote:
>> John 1:1, Using the New World Translation to Refute JW Teaching
>>
>> https://carm.org/jehovahs-witnesses/using-the-new-world-translation-to-refute-the-new-world-translation-john-11/
>
>That is why I said...
>
>"It doesn't even look right, let alone sound right.
>
>So, which God made all things? The God or another a god?"
>
>The JW Sinner Version is obviously not right; it's wrong. It doesn't
>even look right, let alone sound right on the first casual pass. That,
>of course, goes right over sinner James head and he makes up some
>shallow bullshit straw man about what 'looks like and sounds like,' as
>usual.
>
>Oh that sinner James!. He has got a lot to answer for!

To Michael Christ's readers,

So your proof against the translation of the NWT of John 1:1 is that
it don't LOOK right? And it doesn't SOUND right? Well OK.

Sincerely James
Wonderful news!
Go to jw.org

2/14/2024

>
>
>
>
>
>Michael Christ

[Michael Christ]

On 15/02/2024 12:33 pm, James wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 08:06:29 +1100, Michael Christ
> <michaelm...@outlook.com> wrote:
>
>> On 15/02/2024 7:15 am, servant wrote:
>>> John 1:1, Using the New World Translation to Refute JW Teaching
>>>
>>> https://carm.org/jehovahs-witnesses/using-the-new-world-translation-to-refute-the-new-world-translation-john-11/
>>
>> That is why I said...
>>
>> "It doesn't even look right, let alone sound right.
>>
>> So, which God made all things? The God or another a god?"
>>
>> The JW Sinner Version is obviously not right; it's wrong. It doesn't
>> even look right, let alone sound right on the first casual pass. That,
>> of course, goes right over sinner James head and he makes up some
>> shallow bullshit straw man about what 'looks like and sounds like,' as
>> usual.
>>
>> Oh that sinner James!. He has got a lot to answer for!

Sinner of constancy, James wrote:
> To Michael Christ's readers,
>
> So your proof against the translation of the NWT of John 1:1 is that
> it don't LOOK right? And it doesn't SOUND right? Well OK.

Oh be quiet, contortionist distortionist sinner James, ye filthy whore
Pharisee.

Sinner James wrote:
> I don't lie.

All sinners are liars.

Sinner James wrote:
> God hates liars.

And they are not popular with your neighbour.

[James]

On Mon, 12 Feb 2024 16:37:23 -0800, Robert <rob...@no.way> wrote:

>On Feb 12, 2024, James wrote
>(in article<3smksi1ed61kblt4f...@4ax.com>):
>
>> Thus, God created all things THROUGH Jesus. But how did Jesus come to
>> exist:
>>
>> Simple, God created Jesus first. A direct creation; God to Jesus:
>
>You have no proof to that.

The Scriptures are the proof. If you have questions about them, I'll
discuss them with you, using your Bible translation if possible.

>
>At the very least you are now admitting that Jesus IS God.

I admit nothing of the kind because that's not what the Bible teaches.
(ex. see John 14:28) Where do you get this stuff from?

Sincerely James
Lonely? The
Bible can help.
Go to jw.org
2/15/2024

[James]

On Tue, 13 Feb 2024 12:05:42 +1100, Michael Christ
<michaelm...@outlook.com> wrote:

To Michael Christ's readers,


>On 13/02/2024 11:32 am, James wrote:
>> On Thu, 8 Feb 2024 10:32:11 +1100, Michael Christ
>> <michaelm...@outlook.com> wrote:
>>
>>> JW.org Scriptures
>>> John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and
>>> the Word was a god.
>>>
>>> It doesn't even look right, let alone sound right.
>
>Constantly sinning James wrote:
>> To Michael Christ's readers,
>>
>> Translators should not go by how some things looks, or by how it
>> sounds. Rather they should go by what IS WRITTEN, and the grammar
>> rules that accompany it.
>
>Woooooooossssshhhhhhhh. And I hear that all the time from perfection
>sinners! :-). They have an incredible perfection when it comes to what
>is written and regarding the grammar and meaning of words. :-). Amazing
>accuracy in their sin, and never missing the mark! :-).

Opinion noted.

>
>Meanwhile, back at the ranch, there isn't more than One God, Sinner James.

No kidding.

>
>Period. There is no such thing as an additional JW "a god."

Yes there is. Look at John 10:33. Notice there is no definite article
"the" before theos (god) When there is, theos becomes "God".When there
is not, theos becomes god. So this is how it should read:

(John 10:33) The Jews answered him: “We are stoning you, not for a
fine work, but for blasphemy; for you, although being a man, make
yourself a god.”

>
>Carry on sinning some place else, preferably within the containment of
>your religion.

My sinning is between me amid God.

>
>Thank you, thank you very much.

Your welcome.

>
>Just because God came in the flesh, that does not make Him an extra god
>or a lessor god.

Jesus CAN'T be God as Exodus points out:

(John 10:33) The Jews answered him: “We are stoning you, not for a
fine work, but for blasphemy; for you, although being a man, make
yourself a god.”

If Jesus was God, every person who saw him would have died.

>
>Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

"Godhead". Poor translation. Here is a more accurate one:

-- Revised Standard
Colossians 2:9 For in him the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily,

>
>Your religion! Yes, I know, it is flawlessly sinner personified that has
>no sin. :-). Good luck with that!

All people sin, according to the Bible:

Ro 3:23, "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,"
(NIV)

Ro 5:12, "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man,
and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because
all sinned" (NIV)

Sincerely James
Lonely? The
Bible can help.
Go to jw.org
2/15/2024



>
>
>
>
>

[Michael Christ]

It does not say "for all sin."

And...the born of God cannot sin for His seed remaineth in Him. There
ain't no playing with two masters, Whore James, or any revolving door.

If you are still in your sin, you were never in.

> Ro 5:12, "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man,
> and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because
> all sinned" (NIV)

"Sinned." You, whoring sinner James, say "sin."

So, do it your way. By all means, continually sin on, sinner James, in
your sinner self-righteous religion. Knock yourself out with the rest of
the whores who try and pretend they are virtuous in their sin while they
toss around their bibles and their doctrines.

Good luck with that.

"A sinner is not a believer in God; a sinner is a believer in sin."

"No sinner is sinless in any way."

In spiritual places, stop declaring and claiming you have no sin. By
what means? By always being right in your own eyes.

Sinner James wrote:
> I don't lie.

All sinners lie, you wanker.

Go and find out what sin is and how it treats God.






Michael Christ

--
God is God

Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord. John
10:30  I and Father are one. If you can't see that the Lord Jesus is the
everlasting Father you are not born again and can't see the Kingdom of God.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

through it so that a sinner could play God."

"A sinner is not a believer in God; a sinner is a believer in sin."

[Mitchell Holman]

James <zeb...@windstream.net> wrote in
news:ik4tsitrlmg6888h2...@4ax.com:

> On Mon, 12 Feb 2024 16:37:23 -0800, Robert <rob...@no.way> wrote:
>
>>On Feb 12, 2024, James wrote
>>(in article<3smksi1ed61kblt4f...@4ax.com>):
>>
>>> Thus, God created all things THROUGH Jesus. But how did Jesus come to
>>> exist:
>>>
>>> Simple, God created Jesus first. A direct creation; God to Jesus:
>>
>>You have no proof to that.
>
> The Scriptures are the proof.

Of what?


"And God said, Let US make man in OUR image,
after OUR likeness"
Genesis 1:26


Who else was there with God?

Jesus? That would make Robert correct.

Other gods? That would make Christianity
polytheism.

[pyotr filipivich]

Robert <rob...@no.way> on Tue, 13 Feb 2024 17:36:56 -0800 typed in
alt.christnet.christianlife the following:

>On Feb 13, 2024, pyotr filipivich wrote

>> Robert <rob...@no.way> on Mon, 12 Feb 2024 16:37:23 -0800 typed in
>> alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
>> > On Feb 12, 2024, James wrote

>> > > Thus, God created all things THROUGH Jesus. But how did Jesus come to
>> > > exist:
>> > >
>> > > Simple, God created Jesus first. A direct creation; God to Jesus:
>> >
>> > You have no proof to that.
>>
>> Neither does Robert.
>
>Of course not, since the Word of God does not teach it.

Really?

1 Corinthians 8:5–6 5: "For though there be that are called gods,
whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords
many,) 6 but to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all
things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all
things, and we by him."

Proverbs chapter 8:22 The LORD made me as the beginning of His way,
the first of His works of old. 23 I was set up from everlasting, from
the beginning, or ever the earth was. 24 When there were no depths, I
was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought
forth;

Isaiah 46:0 Remember the former things of old:
for I am God, and there is none else;
I am God, and there is none like me,

Seems to me that an argument can be made that there is scriptural
support for the idea.

>>
>>
>> It is difficult to dismiss a novel or unique interpretation of
>> scripture when one has no authoritative statement of what is and isn't
>> the right teaching; of what is the proper and correct interrelation of
>> the text, other than one's own perspective.
>
>That is true for all unregenerated people, those who have not been born again
>and therefore cannot walk in the spirit.

And as I often ask: how do you know? How do you know that Joseph
Smith was not "born again"? and also lead of the Spirit?

>
>But those who walk in the Spirit do not walk alone, for the Heavenly Father
>is always in touch with us via His Holy Spirit. Those who walk in their own
>perspective, walk in the flesh and their carnal nature.
>
>>
>> >
>> > At the very least you are now admitting that Jesus IS God.
>>
>> But what sort of god? A human being adopted as by The God to be a
>> lesser God? An incarnation into human flesh of a preexisting deity?
>> Or someone who only appeared among us as a human being?
>> Believing that Jesus is God was not a major issue in New Testament
>> times, only what sort of god Jesus was.
>> Nowadays, the problem is convincing people that the human Jesus
>> was also a god.
>
>All peoples of this world walk in their time (AD) while the New Covenant is
>in force. Not everyone accepts that truth as you point out. The belief that
>Jesus is God is not held by those who lack Faith or have rejected him.

This is amusing. As I know several pagans who do consider Jesus
to be god.
Not to mention members of the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter
Day Saints, Jehovah's witnesses, and the Duck River and Kindred
Association of Regular Baptists.

Like I said - "Which Jesus?"

[Robert]

On Feb 15, 2024, pyotr filipivich wrote
(in article<n5jtsidll0sr15ikl...@4ax.com>):

Not one of those verses even comes close to supporting your false ideation.

If I were to make you king and give you the power to create a kingdom, then
did I create you or your position?

And then take Isaiah 46, Was that not Jehovah God speaking, and was not he
Jesus the one who created the earth?

There is a problem with many men, their carnal minds run amuck and their
imaginations run wild, but those that walk in the spirit are given wisdom and
knowledge in order to now Him better, and to see His ways with understanding.
Now don’t get me wrong, in that I am not trying to say that all believers
that are born of God the Father, are instantaneously spiritual brainiacs as
we all start out as Babes in Christ, and then via the renewing of our minds
we become mature. Some faster than others, yet there are no limitations.

>
>
> > >
> > >
> > > It is difficult to dismiss a novel or unique interpretation of
> > > scripture when one has no authoritative statement of what is and isn't
> > > the right teaching; of what is the proper and correct interrelation of
> > > the text, other than one's own perspective.
> >
> > That is true for all unregenerated people, those who have not been born
> > again and therefore cannot walk in the spirit.
>
> And as I often ask: how do you know? How do you know that Joseph
> Smith was not "born again"? and also lead of the Spirit?

By his actions, his works, and by the conflicts with scripture. The spirit of
God leads us into all truth, and exposes the evil.

>
> >
> > But those who walk in the Spirit do not walk alone, for the Heavenly Father
> > is always in touch with us via His Holy Spirit. Those who walk in their own
> > perspective, walk in the flesh and their carnal nature.
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > At the very least you are now admitting that Jesus IS God.
> > >
> > > But what sort of god? A human being adopted as by The God to be a
> > > lesser God? An incarnation into human flesh of a preexisting deity?
> > > Or someone who only appeared among us as a human being?
> > > Believing that Jesus is God was not a major issue in New Testament
> > > times, only what sort of god Jesus was.
> > > Nowadays, the problem is convincing people that the human Jesus
> > > was also a god.
> >
> > All peoples of this world walk in their time (AD) while the New Covenant is
> > in force. Not everyone accepts that truth as you point out. The belief that
> > Jesus is God is not held by those who lack Faith or have rejected him.
>
> This is amusing. As I know several pagans who do consider Jesus
> to be god.

And as is written in Scripture, so do... “Thou believest that there is one
God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.” (Jas 2:19)

Also in the OT there were five Kings whom Abraham knew, who clearly stated
that Abrahams God was more powerful than any of their gods, yet the wanted
nothing to do with the God of Abraham.

>
> Not to mention members of the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter
> Day Saints, Jehovah's witnesses, and the Duck River and Kindred
> Association of Regular Baptists.
>
> Like I said - "Which Jesus?"

JW’s do not believe or accept the divinity and deity of Jesus, the Mormons
state that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers. Those last groups I am unfamiliar
with, but How does one know?

Rom 8:14-17

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have
received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

********************
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the
children of God:

********************

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if
so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

V16 says how we know if v14 be true in a persons life, Plus when a person has
the experiential relationship with the Lord, there is no denying who it is
that is our Savior. At that point you can believe him unto death one is so
sure of their salvation.

[Robert]

On Feb 15, 2024, James wrote
(in article<ik4tsitrlmg6888h2...@4ax.com>):

Thank you for your clarification, but how then did Jesus create this world
and all that was in it, in six days?

As to the verse you quoted, it has absolutely nothing to do with the subject,
nor your statement that Jesus created the earth and all that is in it.
>
>
> Sincerely James

[Ted]

About 70 other gods, actually. The Bible refers to God in the plural
until after the Tower of Babel, when all the gods were assigned to
their respective nations.

[James]

On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 12:59:33 +1100, Michael Christ
<michaelm...@outlook.com> wrote:

To Michael Christ's readers,

>On 15/02/2024 12:33 pm, James wrote:
>> On Thu, 15 Feb 2024 08:06:29 +1100, Michael Christ
>> <michaelm...@outlook.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 15/02/2024 7:15 am, servant wrote:
>>>> John 1:1, Using the New World Translation to Refute JW Teaching
>>>>
>>>> https://carm.org/jehovahs-witnesses/using-the-new-world-translation-to-refute-the-new-world-translation-john-11/
>>>
>>> That is why I said...
>>>
>>> "It doesn't even look right, let alone sound right.
>>>
>>> So, which God made all things? The God or another a god?"
>>>
>>> The JW Sinner Version is obviously not right; it's wrong. It doesn't
>>> even look right, let alone sound right on the first casual pass. That,
>>> of course, goes right over sinner James head and he makes up some
>>> shallow bullshit straw man about what 'looks like and sounds like,' as
>>> usual.
>>>
>>> Oh that sinner James!. He has got a lot to answer for!
>
>Sinner of constancy, James wrote:
>> To Michael Christ's readers,
>>
>> So your proof against the translation of the NWT of John 1:1 is that
>> it don't LOOK right? And it doesn't SOUND right? Well OK.
>
>Oh be quiet, contortionist distortionist sinner James, ye filthy whore
>Pharisee.

The Bible truth shall set you free from the spiritual prison you are
in.

>
>Sinner James wrote:
> > I don't lie.
>
>All sinners are liars.

The Bible truth shall set you free from the spiritual prison you are
in.

>
>Sinner James wrote:
> > God hates liars.

Sincerely James
Lonely? The
Bible can help.
Go to jw.org

2/16/2024

[Michael Christ]

JW Sinner James wrote:
> I do not lie.

All sinners are liars.

I don't take advice from liars who are trying to transform the bible
into their own image.

"What you believe is just a leaning on your own understanding; faith is
a leaning on the one you have chosen to trust."

[James]

On Sun, 18 Feb 2024 16:22:30 +1100, Michael Christ

Not this one.

>
>I don't take advice from liars who are trying to transform the bible
>into their own image.

Neither do I. (:>)

Sincerely James
Lonely? The
Bible can help.
Go to jw.org

2/18/2024

[Michael Christ]

Michael Christ wrote:
>> All sinners are liars.

JW Sinner James wrote:
> Not this one.

All sinners are liars.

[James]

On Fri, 16 Feb 2024 13:53:12 +1100, Michael Christ

To Michael Christ's readers,

I don't change words when quoting a Scripture. If with this subject
you only want the present tense:

1 Jo 1:8, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and
the truth is not in us." (KJV)

So no matter when you say you are sinless. the apostle John says you
are not telling the TRUTH.

>
>So, do it your way. By all means, continually sin on, sinner James, in
>your sinner self-righteous religion. Knock yourself out with the rest of
>the whores who try and pretend they are virtuous in their sin while they
>toss around their bibles and their doctrines.

You mean toss them around like Jesus said to do?

(Matthew 28:19, 20) "Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of
all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the
Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things
I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the
conclusion of the system of things.”




>
>Good luck with that.

JW's don't believe in the "god of good luck".

>
>"A sinner is not a believer in God; a sinner is a believer in sin."

A sinner is a person in need of our ransomer, Jesus Christ.

>
>"No sinner is sinless in any way."

And what way would that be?

>
>In spiritual places, stop declaring and claiming you have no sin. By
>what means? By always being right in your own eyes.

You keep making assumptions full of errors.

>
>Sinner James wrote:
> > I don't lie.
>
>All sinners lie, you wanker.

Then you found a rare one, because God hates liars. (Pr 6:16-19)

>
>Go and find out what sin is and how it treats God.

I have the Bible, so don't need to go anywhere. I suggest you do the
same.

Sincerely James
Lonely? The
Bible can help.
Go to jw.org

2/18/2024

[Michael Christ]

Stop wasting my time...

Sinner James wrote:
> I do not lie.

All sinners are liars.

Michael Christ

--
God is God

Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord. John
10:30  I and Father are one. If you can't see that the Lord Jesus is the
everlasting Father you are not born again and can't see the Kingdom of God.

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

"A sinner is not a believer in God; a sinner is a believer in sin."

"A piece of dirt is not the promised land; that is only a reflection.
The promised land is knowing Me, says the Lord."

"It is all about God or it is all about idolatry."

"The Lord Jesus is coming soon. He has always come soon."

"There is no revolving door of self-worship in a son of God's life!"

"There is no such thing as random!"

"You can't truly love without it being with all your heart."

"No one can see God without their whole heart. Unless you can see God,
you know nothing."

"You can't learn God, God has to reveal Himself to you."

"No sinner is sinless in any way."

"Only God is life; only the Kingdom of God of His "Nature" is life."

[servant]

Friend james, after reading the following web page in detail to be in the
truth, what is your response?

[James]

On 19 Feb 2024 18:07:25 GMT, servant wrote:

For servant's readers,

(words between the + and _ are copied from the web page)

I have already read a couple of these 'using the NWT to refute the
NWT' in the past. I honestly don't recall what they were about. Of
course I disagreed with them. So let's look into this one:

+..............................................................................................................
"scholarly translations (such as the NASB, ESV, KJV, etc.)"
_...............................................................................................................

Talking about "scholarly translations", let's see how the NWT comes
out:

(a) "is one of the most accurate English translations of the New
Testament currently available". Jason BeDuhn (professor of religious
studies) (later changed his mind)

(b) "I have never discovered in the New World Translation any biased
intent to read something into the text that it does not contain.” Dr.
Benjamin Kedar (Hebrew scholar)

(c) "The translation of the New Testament [NWT]is evidence of the
presence in the movement of scholars qualified to deal intelligently
with the many problems of Biblical translation.” The Andover Newton
Quarterly 1963.

(d) “The New Testament translation was made by a committee whose
membership has never been revealed—a committee that possessed an
unusual competence in Greek.” Andover Newton Quarterly, 1966

(e) "It exhibits a vast array of sound serious learning, as I can
testify."
Dr Edgar Goodspeed (translator of the Greek New Testament in "An
American Translation")

(f)“I am very surprised,” he said, “that there is actually one Dutch
Bible in which the different use of the three Greek words bre´phos,
pai·di´on, and pais is rightly taken into account.” Does the New World
Translation translate these verses in harmony with the original Greek
text? “Completely in agreement,” Classical Greek scholar Dr. Rijkel
ten Kate

(g)“The translation is evidently the work of skilled and clever
scholars".
Hebrew and Greek scholar Alexander Thomson.

(h) Concerning "The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek
Scriptures," by JW's, "The translation by the anonymous committee is
thoroughly up-to-date and consistently accurate" Thomas N. Winter of
the University of Nebraska, appearing in The Classical Journal,
April–May 1974

(i) Eerdman’s Handbook to the Bible lists the New World Translation
among the 14 “main 20th-century English translations.”

Now, back to the web page:

+........................................................................................................
"Virtually every English Bible ever produced by any translator or
committee in any era all read:

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the
Word was God,” (John 1:1)."
_.............................................................................................................

Oh really? Then these translations don't count?


"the Logos was divine." (MO);
"the Word was divine." (AT; SD);
"a god was the Word." (interlinear ED) ;
"the Word was a god" (NTIV).
"The Word was deity." (Simple English)

+....................................................................................................................
“In the beginning was the Word.” It does not say, “In the beginning
the Word came into being” or “In the beginning God created the Word.”
It says that in the beginning the Word already “was.” In the
beginning, the Word is already there. The Word does not have a
beginning. Rather, the Word is already present in the beginning."
_....................................................................................................................

He doesn't answer the question, 'The BEGINNING of what?' The beginning
of creations? Or the beginning of the "Word"? The Scriptures support
the second one. The Word (Jesus) was CREATED.

-- King James
Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn
of every creature:
(the context here shows things being created. Of which, Jesus was the
first)

Yes, Jesus was the very first miracle of creation God performed:

-- New Revised Standard with Apocrypha
Revelation 3:14 "And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The
words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the origin {Or
[beginning]} of God's creation:

Notice verse 2:

-- New American Standard
John 1:2 He was in the beginning with God.

If you are WITH someone, there are two persons present, not one with a
split personality.

Notice vs 3:

(John 1:3) All things came into existence through him, and apart from
him not even one thing came into existence. What has come into
existence (NWT)

To get the real sense of vs 3, you have to add verses 1 and 2. But
first let's begin with Rev 3:14. So let's do that.

The scene opens up with just God. (Gen1:1) He now starts to create. He
creates the Word (Jesus) (Rev 3:14; Col 1:15) Now there are two of
them. (John 1:2) Next God starts all kinds of creating THROUGH the
Word. (Jesus)
Thus Jesus was involved in all the rest of the creations in some
undescribed way.

+................................................................................................................
"Note that all things came into existence through Him. Indeed, not
even one thing came into existence except through Him. If The Word
were Himself a creation, this would be utter nonsense!"
_..................................................................................................................

As shown above, not when you read it in chronological order.

The author also fails to give the reason the JW's say they translate
John 1:1 as "a god" and not "God".

In Greek grammar, at John 1:1 the word "theos" (god) occurs twice. The
1st "theos" has the word "the" (Greek ho) before it. For the Greeks
that points to Almighty God. (ho theos) The 2nd "theos" has nothing
before it, thus it just means "god". The NWT shows that distinction.
Most other popular Bibles do not.


+...................................................................................................................
"“He came to his own home, but his own people did not accept him,”
(John 1:11, NWT).

To whom did “The Word” (i.e., Jesus) come? Who were His own people
that did not accept Him? They were the Jewish people, of course. Jesus
is the God whose people are the Jews. How many gods are there that can
claim the Jewish people as their own people? Only one. The Jews had
but one God. Jehovah did not share His covenant people with some other
lesser god. No other god could call them “his own people.” So, if
Jesus is “a god.” Which god?"
_.....................................................................................................................

Again, he is ignoring some verses before it. Notice Vss 6,7:

"6 There came a man who was sent as a representative of God; his name
was John. 7 This man came as a witness, in order to bear witness about
the light, so that people of all sorts might believe through him."

There, John the Baptist just introduced Jesus to the Jewish people. He
was to become a LIGHT to the JEWS. So he was destined to be for the
Jewish people in the beginning of his ministry.


The rest of his web page doesn't deal with John 1:1, which was the
theme of the web page, and the reason I am looking at it. So I am
going to stop it here.

Sincerely James
Lonely? The
Bible can help.
Go to jw.org

2/20/2024

[servant]

>>Friend james, after reading the following web page in detail to be in the
>>truth, what is your response?
>>
>>John 1:1, Using the New World Translation to Refute JW Teaching
>>https://carm.org/jehovahs-witnesses/using-the-new-world-translation-to-refute-the-new-world-translation-john-11/
>

Friend james did not read in dteal why the nwt refutes. He merely tries to
justify jw vatican excuses for not haveing *any* greek/hebrew scholars who
did the "translation".

>"scholarly translations (such as the NASB, ESV, KJV, etc.)"
>_...............................................................................................................
>
>Talking about "scholarly translations", let's see how the NWT comes

Nope, we are not speaking of/questioing the point at all. Read the
question above again about the details of their analysis,ie. the nwt
refutes the John 1:1 jw vatican claim.