Re: Message to Lucy

[zeb...@windstream.net]

On Sat, 16 Jul 2022 10:42:17 +1000, Michael McLean
<michaelm...@outlook.com> wrote:

>On 16/07/2022 12:49 am, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>> On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 07:14:14 +1000, Michael McLean
>> <michaelm...@outlook.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 14/07/2022 9:50 pm, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:23:37 +1000, Michael McLean
>>>> <michaelm...@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 14/07/2022 4:59 am, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 22:33:45 +1000, Lucifer
>>>>>> <LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 06:02:04 -0400, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 08:42:40 +1000, Lucifer
>>>>>>>> <LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> “Stop judging that you may not be judged; 2 for with the judgment you
>>>>>>>>> are judging, you will be judged, and with the measure that you are
>>>>>>>>> measuring out, they will measure out to you." (Mt 7:1,2)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A message to Lucy:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> (Matthew 3:2) saying: “Repent, for the Kingdom of the heavens has
>>>>>>>> drawn near.”
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> “Stop judging that you may not be judged; 2 for with the judgment you
>>>>>>> are judging, you will be judged, and with the measure that you are
>>>>>>> measuring out, they will measure out to you." (Mt 7:1,2)
>>>
>>> James wrote:
>>>>>> I don't judge individuals, but I do judge classes of people like all
>>>>>> homosexuals, all murderers, all thieves, etc.
>>>
>>> Michael McLean wrote:
>>>>> So, James, are you a better sinner than them?
>>
>> See below.
>>
>>>
>>> James wrote:
>>>> I am a sinner like all humans are:
>>>>
>>>> -- King James
>>>> Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and
>>>> death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have
>>>> sinned:
>>>
>>> I said I hope I get a sincere and honest answer from you, not a sidestep!
>>
>> You got a Scriptural answer. I cannot do better.
>
>Any sinner can quote scripture, James, and try and make themselves
>righteous.

When have I ever called myself righteous? I just follow the Bible the
best I can. Even those so-called "righteous" ones, will be saved with
difficulty:

(1 Peter 4:18) “And if the righteous man is being saved with
difficulty, what will happen to the ungodly man and the sinner?”

>
>
>>> Michael McLean wrote:
>>>>> I hope I get a sincere and honest answer.
>>>
>>> James wrote:
>>>> You can't get a better answer than a Scripture.
>>>
>>> So as a better sinner you can look down on others?
>>
>> That goes against the Bible. Here is what Christians are to do:
>>
>> (Philippians 2:3) Do nothing out of contentiousness or out of egotism,
>> but with humility consider others superior to you,
>
>"I don't judge individuals, but I do judge classes of people like all
>homosexuals, all murderers, all thieves, etc."
>
>Is not a sinner a liar, James? Or are you a better class of sinner?


>
>
>
>>> [Quote you]
>>> "I don't judge individuals, but I do judge classes of people like all
>>> homosexuals, all murderers, all thieves, etc."
>>>
>>> By the way, those classes of people are individuals.
>>
>> But they are not named. Christians cannot judge a specific individual
>> person. That is left up to God and Jesus.
>
>Oh please, stop trying to conceal yourself.

I don't hide from anyone, for I am just telling you like it is.

>
>
>>> It seems you can't be sincere, James, so it is best to drop the
>>> "Sincerely James" deceit.
>>
>> I am sorry you feel that way. But your feeling is wrong. I am sincere
>> about all the Scriptures I refer to.
>>
>>>
>>> And then the Lord said, "I see everything."
>>
>> That's right. You can't hide from God.
>
>Indeed!
>
>> Sincerely James
>
>Indeed again!
>
>> Shootings out of control
>> See what the Bible says
>> At www.jw.org or jw.org
>
>You use scripture as a mask to try and hide your insincerity (sin),
>James. So, one can't get a sincere answer from you. Therefore, it has
>to be done directly.

You are living in a fantasy world. Time to get out of it and join the
rest of us.

>
>James wrote:
> > I don't judge individuals, but I do judge classes of people like all
> > homosexuals, all murderers, all thieves, etc."
>
>They are all individuals.

But all their identities are not known. For instance, God said all
homosexuals will be destroyed. Let's say today there are 25,000
homosexuals. Next week there may be 24, 810. So the individuals within
a class may change, but the class always stays the same.

>
>You have no right or authority to judge any sinner because you are a
>sinner yourself. It is called hypocrisy, self-righteousness, and seeing
>yourself as a better quality of sinner than another.

I already told you, I don't judge individuals. THE BIBLE JUDGES THE
CLASSES OF PEOPLE. I simply relay what the Bible says:

(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for
teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining
in righteousness,


>
>It is vomit worthy man-centred religion, Buddy.

That makes no sense. But I am not surprised.


Sincerely James
Shootings out of control
See what the Bible says
At www.jw.org or jw.org

>
>
>
>
>
>
>Michael McLean
>
>
>
>>> Michael McLean wrote:
>>>>> Robert, if you are reading, do you see what I have been saying? What
>>>>> goes for James goes for all your christian religions.

[Michael McLean]

You are insincere, James, so we can't have a right conversation.

You go around quoting a Bible you don't live by. You think that is fine
because the of the "everybody's doing it" mentality. The Lord does not
like hypocrisy.

JW James wrote:
> I don't judge individuals, but I do judge classes of people like all
> homosexuals, all murderers, all thieves, etc.

The people the Lord Jesus Christ died for on the cross weren't just
Sunday sinner religious ["Classes of peoples"] gatherings.


(Newsgroup Version)
Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; one was named JW
James, and the other a filthy sinning non-JW.
Luk 18:11 JW James stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank
thee, that I am not as other men are, homosexuals, murderers, thieves, etc.
Luk 18:12 I go to Kingdom Hall on Sundays, I do works because I am
worthy of salvation.

Michael McLean


>>
>>
>>
>>>> Michael McLean wrote:
>>>>>> Robert, if you are reading, do you see what I have been saying? What
>>>>>> goes for James goes for all your christian religions.

--
Jesus is the everlasting Father, Jesus is God, Jesus is the Lord.

Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were
YET sinners, Christ died for us.

Jeremiah 10:23 O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it
is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

"To seek your own will is to seek your own glory."

"If God is not first in everything He is not first in anything."

"Sin is not what you do, it is what you are."

"What makes the bible the truth? The resonance of God."

"All men were born sinners. Why? Because all men were born not loving
God with all their heart, soul and mind. An abomination."

"Compromise will condemn you."

"There are no sinners in Christ Jesus."

"My sons are born of Me. In them is no darkness at all."

"You can't learn righteousness. Haven't you had enough time already to
know that?"

"The way of truth is the testimony of life."

"I merely speak the truth, what is revealed to me, and the cards fall
where God intends."

"Nothing that is produced is produced without first being faith."

"You can only find proof of God through faith because that is how we all
live, by faith."

"It is not what you do that matters, it is how you treat Me."

"Keep going forward. Forget about the past. Lift up your head, look
ahead."

"You cannot be free with guilt in your heart."

"Priority is everything."

"The truth doesn't need evidence, it is evidence."

"There is no greater possession a man has than his own will, to squander
it or to place it where it truly belongs."

"An atheist is a fool who thinks truth is found in living a lie."

"Saying "prove it" [as a foundation] is merely an ignorant straw man, to
an ignorant straw man."

"Wait, rest, be still, and know."

"No man can wash his own hands!!!"

"I find this in the Christianity religions: 'Nobody's perfect' they say,
and they use that as an excuse not to do what is perfect."

The Atheist: "They don't believe and put their faith in a Creator (the
obvious). So no evidence and proof is to be found!!"

"The world is the way it is because God can't compromise who He is."

"Man is not the centre of being."

"Man is incompatible with the natural world because of his sinful nature."

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

[zeb...@windstream.net]

On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 06:57:51 +1000, Michael McLean

You don't know me from Adam. I live by the Bible.

(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for
teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining
in righteousness,


>

>JW James wrote:
> > I don't judge individuals, but I do judge classes of people like all
> > homosexuals, all murderers, all thieves, etc.
>
>The people the Lord Jesus Christ died for on the cross

Correction. Make that "cross", a stake. It translates the Greek word
"stauros " which means an upright stake.

>weren't just
>Sunday sinner religious ["Classes of peoples"] gatherings.

??

>
>
>(Newsgroup Version)
>Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; one was named JW
>James, and the other a filthy sinning non-JW.
>Luk 18:11 JW James stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank
>thee, that I am not as other men are, homosexuals, murderers, thieves, etc.
>Luk 18:12 I go to Kingdom Hall on Sundays, I do works because I am
>worthy of salvation.

That is NOT how I pray. I pray for God's name to be santified, I pray
for God's kingdom to come and take over earth's kingdoms. I pray for
enough food to eat, I pray for forgiveness of my sins, I pray that
Satan does not influence me. (see Mt 6:9-11)

Sincerely James
Shootings out of control
See what the Bible says
At www.jw.org or jw.org



>
>
Sincerely James
Shootings out of control
See what the Bible says
At www.jw.org or jw.org

>
>
>
>

[Nightbulb.net]

On 7/21/22 06:57, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
> Correction. Make that "cross", a stake. It translates the Greek word
> "stauros " which means an upright stake.

This is a common myth among Christian revisionists. "Stauros" does in
fact mean "cross" and was used to mean "cross" for quite a long time
before Jesus was crucified. "Upright stake" was an earlier use of the
word, but the form and use of it in the Greek New Testament is the same
as the Latin "crux" or "crucifix" or "cross."

The Greek "stauros" is a translation of the Latin "crux" and means the
same thing. In the time of Homer "stauros" was used to mean a impaling
stake or pole. But the meanings of words change over time and take on
new senses. The JW "torture stake" doctrine is a folk etymology not
grounded in historical reality.

The stauros was a implement of torture for centuries before Christ. By
the time the Romans adopted this implement of torture, the Romans added
a cross-beam to the stake, calling it a crux. At that time the Greek
word stauros came to generally refer to the Roman cross-beam, or crux,
rather than just an impaling stake.

The Romans compelled the condemned victim to carry his own cross-beam to
the already fixed stake, hence the phrase, "Take up your cross." This is
in reference to the 'furca' or 'crux' beam, not to the upright stake by
itself. Everyone in the first century reading the Greek "stauros" in the
Gospels understood it meant "cross." None of them understood it to mean
just a "stake."

Strong's dictionary makes this distinction:

4716 staurós – the crosspiece of a Roman cross; the cross-beam (Latin,
patibulum) placed at the top of the vertical member to form a capital
“T.” “This transverse beam was the one carried by the criminal”

Those who don't actually know Greek or Hebrew and the historical
etymological changes of words, make false assumptions then build
mistaken doctrines upon their ignorance. They assume the ancient
Homerian usage of the word is the only meaning, then build a philosphy
on that meaning, not understanding that the usage of words varies by
dialect, region, culture, and time, even among people who speak a common
lanauge.

The JWs saw a older variant definition of "stauros" being a "upright
impaling stake" then come to the erroneous conclusion that it doesn't
mean "cross." But it does mean "cross". All first-century followers of
Jesus who read the scripture where the word "stauros" occured understood
it to mean "cross", not "upright stake." None of them interpreted the
word to mean an impaling stake. It was widely understood as the Roman
version with the cross-beam, hence, "cross."

--

Nightbulb
https://blog.nightbulb.net
Flip the night switch

[Michael McLean]

Michael wrote:
>> You are insincere, James, so we can't have a right conversation.
>>
>> You go around quoting a Bible you don't live by. You think that is fine
>> because the of the "everybody's doing it" mentality. The Lord does not
>> like hypocrisy.

JW James wrote:
> You don't know me from Adam. I live by the Bible.

No, you don't, sinners don't LIVE BY the Bible. You are self-righteous,
lying to me, you are a hypocrite, and you are not a better class of
person than the homosexuals, murderers, and thieves.

"You are insincere, James, so we can't have a right conversation."

Michael McLean

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

[Ted]

Thank you, Nightbulb.

[zeb...@windstream.net]

On Thu, 21 Jul 2022 09:48:42 -0500, "Nightbulb.net"
<nos...@nightbulb.net> wrote:

Strong's Concordance says this:

"Strong's Ref. # 4716

Romanized stauros
Pronounced stow-ros'

from the base of GSN2476; a stake or post (as set upright), i.e.
(specifically) a pole or cross (as an instrument of capital
punishment); figuratively, exposure to death, i.e. self-denial; by
implication, the atonement of Christ:

KJV--cross."

Yes, later that word "stauros" came to include the word "cross", but
its original meaning was an upright stake or post.

Acts 13:29 says Jesus was executed on a tree:

-- King James
Acts 13:29 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him,
they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre.

No. The pagan cross popped up after the 1st century.

>
>Those who don't actually know Greek or Hebrew and the historical
>etymological changes of words, make false assumptions then build
>mistaken doctrines upon their ignorance. They assume the ancient
>Homerian usage of the word is the only meaning, then build a philosphy
>on that meaning, not understanding that the usage of words varies by
>dialect, region, culture, and time, even among people who speak a common
>lanauge.
>
>The JWs saw a older variant definition of "stauros" being a "upright
>impaling stake" then come to the erroneous conclusion that it doesn't
>mean "cross." But it does mean "cross". All first-century followers of
>Jesus who read the scripture where the word "stauros" occured understood
>it to mean "cross", not "upright stake." None of them interpreted the
>word to mean an impaling stake. It was widely understood as the Roman
>version with the cross-beam, hence, "cross."

Then explain to me why they used the word "tree" at Acts 13:29?

[zeb...@windstream.net]

On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 06:34:40 +1000, Michael McLean

Are you on some kind of pills? You couldn't be more wrong:

I live by the Bible. Do you?

I am not self righteous, but am a sinner. The Bible says to consider
others superior to you.

I don't lie. Do you know the real definition of a lie?

I am not a hypocrite. But I may say things at times that seem that
way.

I most certainly behave better than homos, murderers and thieves.

I am sincere in my postings. If I wasn't, I wouldn't post.

[Ted]

That does require an answer. But wasn't crucifixion the Romans'
standard punishment for insurgents?

[Michael McLean]

JW James wrote:
> Are you on some kind of pills? You couldn't be more wrong:
>
> I live by the Bible.

No, you don't. You therefore have to compromise in your fallen nature.

You are deceitful, dishonest, and insincere, James.

But what really bothers me is the fact that you think you are better
than other people groups, "homosexuals, murderers, and thieves."

And yet you are a sinner as they are.

Self-righteousness...a better quality of sinner! No, you are not.

(JW James Version)

Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; one was named JW
James, and the other a filthy sinning non-JW.
Luk 18:11 JW James stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank
thee, that I am not as other men are, homosexuals, murderers, thieves, etc.
Luk 18:12 I go to Kingdom Hall on Sundays, I do works because I am
worthy of salvation.

Michael McLean

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

"Man has no greater idol than his own will."

"Where is God hiding? He isn't."

"If you don't keep all the scriptures, you can't keep any of them".

[zeb...@windstream.net]

On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 10:05:15 +1000, Michael McLean

[zeb...@windstream.net]

On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 10:05:15 +1000, Michael McLean

Sincerely James
A much better earth is coming

[Michael McLean]

Since you seek to justify yourself, you will only be of that earth, but
you will not be part of the inheritance of the sons of God.

If you are happy with that, so be it.

But you could be much much more...but you have to lose your
self-worshiping life and become a servant of all...

JW James wrote:
> Are you on some kind of pills? You couldn't be more wrong:
>
> I live by the Bible.

No, you don't. You therefore have to compromise in your fallen nature.

You are deceitful, dishonest, and insincere, James.

But what really bothers me is the fact that you think you are better
than other people groups, "homosexuals, murderers, and thieves."

And yet you are a sinner as they are.

Self-righteousness...a better quality of sinner! No, you are not.

(JW James Version)
Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; one was named JW
James, and the other a filthy sinning non-JW.
Luk 18:11 JW James stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank
thee, that I am not as other men are, homosexuals, murderers, thieves, etc.
Luk 18:12 I go to Kingdom Hall on Sundays, I do works because I am
worthy of salvation.







Michael McLean





>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>

>>>>>> Michael McLean
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Michael McLean wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Robert, if you are reading, do you see what I have been saying? What
>>>>>>>>>>>> goes for James goes for all your christian religions.

"And then the Lord said, "I see everything."

[Lucifer]

A much better earth brought to you by the same unchanging God
that brought you this one.

[Lucifer]

[zeb...@windstream.net]

This is not the one God ORIGINALLY had in mind. Just read early
Genesis and see that God wanted perfect humans inhabited a paradise
earth, with no pain, nor sickness, nor death, etc.

Guess what. That will be the much better earth coming right up. So
what God wanted will eventually become a reality.

Sincerely James
A much better earth is coming

[Lucifer]

On Sun, 24 Jul 2022 14:21:50 -0400, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:

>On Sat, 23 Jul 2022 18:35:23 +1000, Lucifer
><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 18:20:42 -0400, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>>
>>>Sincerely James
>>>A much better earth is coming
>>
>>A much better earth brought to you by the same unchanging God
>>that brought you this one.
>
>This is not the one God ORIGINALLY had in mind. Just read early
>Genesis and see that God wanted perfect humans inhabited a paradise
>earth, with no pain, nor sickness, nor death, etc.

Genesis shows God got exactly what he wanted.

>Guess what. That will be the much better earth coming right up. So
>what God wanted will eventually become a reality.

What is to stop God failing with his second attempt?

[John Ritson]

In article <q53rdhhree1i2tv3s...@4ax.com>,
zeb...@windstream.net writes

>On Sat, 23 Jul 2022 18:35:23 +1000, Lucifer
><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 18:20:42 -0400, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>>
>>>Sincerely James
>>>A much better earth is coming
>>
>>A much better earth brought to you by the same unchanging God
>>that brought you this one.
>
>This is not the one God ORIGINALLY had in mind. Just read early
>Genesis and see that God wanted perfect humans inhabited a paradise
>earth, with no pain, nor sickness, nor death, etc.

And this supposedly all-powerful entity couldn't arrange things that
way. So it's not all-powerful, or it was lying or it doesn't exist.

>
>
>Guess what. That will be the much better earth coming right up. So
>what God wanted will eventually become a reality.

It's been "coming right up" for thousands of years. and was promised to
happen in 1914, 1925, 1975, 2000...

And it's not just earth that he couldn't get right.
"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the
first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. " Rev 21:1

So who was responsible for heaven needing to be replaced?

And how can this "much better earth" be without a sea?

>
>Sincerely James
>A much better earth is coming
>See what the Bible says
>At www.jw.org or jw.org

--
John Ritson

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

[zeb...@windstream.net]

On Mon, 25 Jul 2022 05:32:01 +1000, Lucifer

<LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 24 Jul 2022 14:21:50 -0400, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 23 Jul 2022 18:35:23 +1000, Lucifer
>><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 18:20:42 -0400, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>>>
>>>>Sincerely James
>>>>A much better earth is coming
>>>
>>>A much better earth brought to you by the same unchanging God
>>>that brought you this one.
>>
>>This is not the one God ORIGINALLY had in mind. Just read early
>>Genesis and see that God wanted perfect humans inhabited a paradise
>>earth, with no pain, nor sickness, nor death, etc.
>
>Genesis shows God got exactly what he wanted.

Is the earth a paradise? Are we all perfect? Has death been removed?

>
>>Guess what. That will be the much better earth coming right up. So
>>what God wanted will eventually become a reality.
>
>What is to stop God failing with his second attempt?

God doesn't fail. He always knows exactly what He is doing.

>
>>Sincerely James
>>A much better earth is coming
>
>A much better earth brought to you by the same unchanging God
>that brought you this one.

That's where you are deceiving yourself. Think of reality in three
phases:
1. God created Adam in a paradise setting with the prospect of living
forever with no sicknesses.
2. We are now in a testing phase.
3. After this, we will be living on a paradise earth with our
resurrected loved ones forever and with no sicknesses.

Sincerely James
A much better earth is coming

[zeb...@windstream.net]

On Mon, 25 Jul 2022 10:38:28 +0100, John Ritson
<j.ri...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <q53rdhhree1i2tv3s...@4ax.com>,
>zeb...@windstream.net writes
>>On Sat, 23 Jul 2022 18:35:23 +1000, Lucifer
>><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 18:20:42 -0400, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>>>
>>>>Sincerely James
>>>>A much better earth is coming
>>>
>>>A much better earth brought to you by the same unchanging God
>>>that brought you this one.
>>
>>This is not the one God ORIGINALLY had in mind. Just read early
>>Genesis and see that God wanted perfect humans inhabited a paradise
>>earth, with no pain, nor sickness, nor death, etc.
>
>And this supposedly all-powerful entity couldn't arrange things that
>way. So it's not all-powerful, or it was lying or it doesn't exist.

Or it exists but has some universal issues that need conclusions.

>>
>>
>>Guess what. That will be the much better earth coming right up. So
>>what God wanted will eventually become a reality.
>
>It's been "coming right up" for thousands of years. and was promised to
>happen in 1914, 1925, 1975, 2000...

And its coming right up soon. I don't recall 1914, and definitely need
your proof for 1925 and 1975. And show me your proof for 2000.
I was a JW in 1975 and our congregation NEVER prophesied the end was
coming that year. So I need to see your proof.

If you can't find or supply the proof, then you have no right to make
such accusations that are not true.

>
>And it's not just earth that he couldn't get right.
>"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the
>first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. " Rev 21:1
>
>So who was responsible for heaven needing to be replaced?
>
>And how can this "much better earth" be without a sea?

You need more knowledge about the Bible. Why would God destroy Heaven?
He has already cleaned it up of those rebel angels. The new heaven (a
lofty position) is a new ruling party over the earth, which will be
God and Jesus and his associate 144,000 rulers.

The new earth is an earth with wickedness removed. Thus only righteous
ones will be on this "new" earth.

The sea represents chaotic mankind being tossed here and there, not
knowing the way out. That aspect of humanity will be removed.

[Lucifer]

On Tue, 26 Jul 2022 20:15:08 -0400, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:

>On Mon, 25 Jul 2022 05:32:01 +1000, Lucifer
><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 24 Jul 2022 14:21:50 -0400, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 23 Jul 2022 18:35:23 +1000, Lucifer
>>><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 18:20:42 -0400, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Sincerely James
>>>>>A much better earth is coming
>>>>
>>>>A much better earth brought to you by the same unchanging God
>>>>that brought you this one.
>>>
>>>This is not the one God ORIGINALLY had in mind. Just read early
>>>Genesis and see that God wanted perfect humans inhabited a paradise
>>>earth, with no pain, nor sickness, nor death, etc.
>>
>>Genesis shows God got exactly what he wanted.
>
>Is the earth a paradise? Are we all perfect? Has death been removed?

No.
Why do you ask?

>>>Guess what. That will be the much better earth coming right up. So
>>>what God wanted will eventually become a reality.
>>
>>What is to stop God failing with his second attempt?
>
>God doesn't fail. He always knows exactly what He is doing.

So God made a calculated, malicious decision to tease Adam
and Eve then use them as a feeble excuse to abuse all of us.

>>>Sincerely James
>>>A much better earth is coming
>>
>>A much better earth brought to you by the same unchanging God
>>that brought you this one.
>
>That's where you are deceiving yourself. Think of reality in three
>phases:
>1. God created Adam in a paradise setting with the prospect of living
>forever with no sicknesses.

God teased Adam.

>2. We are now in a testing phase.

God has no need to test us.

>3. After this, we will be living on a paradise earth with our
>resurrected loved ones forever and with no sicknesses.

A much better earth brought to you by the same unchanging God
that brought you this one.

>incerely James
>A much better earth is coming

You need to say that three times quickly while clicking your heels.

[Lucifer]

On Tue, 26 Jul 2022 20:31:48 -0400, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:

>On Mon, 25 Jul 2022 10:38:28 +0100, John Ritson
><j.ri...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In article <q53rdhhree1i2tv3s...@4ax.com>,
>>zeb...@windstream.net writes
>>>On Sat, 23 Jul 2022 18:35:23 +1000, Lucifer
>>><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 18:20:42 -0400, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Sincerely James
>>>>>A much better earth is coming
>>>>
>>>>A much better earth brought to you by the same unchanging God
>>>>that brought you this one.
>>>
>>>This is not the one God ORIGINALLY had in mind. Just read early
>>>Genesis and see that God wanted perfect humans inhabited a paradise
>>>earth, with no pain, nor sickness, nor death, etc.
>>
>>And this supposedly all-powerful entity couldn't arrange things that
>>way. So it's not all-powerful, or it was lying or it doesn't exist.
>
>Or it exists but has some universal issues that need conclusions.

That's not possible.

>>>Guess what. That will be the much better earth coming right up. So
>>>what God wanted will eventually become a reality.
>>
>>It's been "coming right up" for thousands of years. and was promised to
>>happen in 1914, 1925, 1975, 2000...
>
>And its coming right up soon. I don't recall 1914, and definitely need
>your proof for 1925 and 1975. And show me your proof for 2000.
>I was a JW in 1975 and our congregation NEVER prophesied the end was
>coming that year. So I need to see your proof.
>
>If you can't find or supply the proof, then you have no right to make
>such accusations that are not true.
>
>>
>>And it's not just earth that he couldn't get right.
>>"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the
>>first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. " Rev 21:1
>>
>>So who was responsible for heaven needing to be replaced?
>>
>>And how can this "much better earth" be without a sea?
>
>You need more knowledge about the Bible. Why would God destroy Heaven?

God is insane?

>He has already cleaned it up of those rebel angels. The new heaven (a
>lofty position) is a new ruling party over the earth, which will be
>God and Jesus and his associate 144,000 rulers.
>
>The new earth is an earth with wickedness removed. Thus only righteous
>ones will be on this "new" earth.
>
>The sea represents chaotic mankind being tossed here and there, not
>knowing the way out. That aspect of humanity will be removed.

"God" represents the JW ruling elite.

>Sincerely James
>A much better earth is coming

A much better earth brought to you by the same unchanging

God that brought you this earth.

[John Ritson]

In article <se11ehtlj431v2jkf...@4ax.com>,
zeb...@windstream.net writes

>On Mon, 25 Jul 2022 10:38:28 +0100, John Ritson
><j.ri...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In article <q53rdhhree1i2tv3s...@4ax.com>,
>>zeb...@windstream.net writes
>>>On Sat, 23 Jul 2022 18:35:23 +1000, Lucifer
>>><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 18:20:42 -0400, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Sincerely James
>>>>>A much better earth is coming
>>>>
>>>>A much better earth brought to you by the same unchanging God
>>>>that brought you this one.
>>>
>>>This is not the one God ORIGINALLY had in mind. Just read early
>>>Genesis and see that God wanted perfect humans inhabited a paradise
>>>earth, with no pain, nor sickness, nor death, etc.
>>
>>And this supposedly all-powerful entity couldn't arrange things that
>>way. So it's not all-powerful, or it was lying or it doesn't exist.
>
>Or it exists but has some universal issues that need conclusions.

So it's not all-powerful.

>
>>>
>>>
>>>Guess what. That will be the much better earth coming right up. So
>>>what God wanted will eventually become a reality.
>>
>>It's been "coming right up" for thousands of years. and was promised to
>>happen in 1914, 1925, 1975, 2000...
>
>And its coming right up soon. I don't recall 1914, and definitely need
>your proof for 1925 and 1975. And show me your proof for 2000.

"What, then, should we expect to take place? The chief thing to be
restored is the human race to life; and since other Scriptures
definitely fix the fact that there will be a resurrection of Abraham,
Isaac, Jacob and other faithful ones of old, and that these will have
the first favour, we may expect 1925 to witness the return of these
faithful men of Israel from the condition of death , being resurrected
and fully restored to perfect humanity and made the visible, legal
representatives of the new order of things on earth." Millions Now
Living Will Never Die! p.88"

>I was a JW in 1975 and our congregation NEVER prophesied the end was
>coming that year. So I need to see your proof.
>
>If you can't find or supply the proof, then you have no right to make
>such accusations that are not true.
>
>>
>>And it's not just earth that he couldn't get right.
>>"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the
>>first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. " Rev 21:1
>>
>>So who was responsible for heaven needing to be replaced?
>>
>>And how can this "much better earth" be without a sea?
>
>You need more knowledge about the Bible. Why would God destroy Heaven?

Because he's an all-powerful entity and he can?

>He has already cleaned it up of those rebel angels. The new heaven (a
>lofty position) is a new ruling party over the earth, which will be
>God and Jesus and his associate 144,000 rulers.
>
>The new earth is an earth with wickedness removed. Thus only righteous
>ones will be on this "new" earth.
>
>The sea represents chaotic mankind being tossed here and there, not
>knowing the way out. That aspect of humanity will be removed.

Does this symbolic interpretation also cover the prediction that
carnivorous animals will become vegetarians?

>
>
>Sincerely James
>A much better earth is coming
>See what the Bible says
>At www.jw.org or jw.org
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Sincerely James
>>>A much better earth is coming
>>>See what the Bible says
>>>At www.jw.org or jw.org
>>
>>--
>>John Ritson

[Lucifer]

[zeb...@windstream.net]

On Wed, 27 Jul 2022 15:06:30 +1000, Lucifer

<LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 26 Jul 2022 20:31:48 -0400, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 25 Jul 2022 10:38:28 +0100, John Ritson
>><j.ri...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>In article <q53rdhhree1i2tv3s...@4ax.com>,
>>>zeb...@windstream.net writes
>>>>On Sat, 23 Jul 2022 18:35:23 +1000, Lucifer
>>>><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 18:20:42 -0400, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Sincerely James
>>>>>>A much better earth is coming
>>>>>
>>>>>A much better earth brought to you by the same unchanging God
>>>>>that brought you this one.
>>>>
>>>>This is not the one God ORIGINALLY had in mind. Just read early
>>>>Genesis and see that God wanted perfect humans inhabited a paradise
>>>>earth, with no pain, nor sickness, nor death, etc.
>>>
>>>And this supposedly all-powerful entity couldn't arrange things that
>>>way. So it's not all-powerful, or it was lying or it doesn't exist.
>>
>>Or it exists but has some universal issues that need conclusions.
>
>That's not possible.

Oh, but it is. For example, God has been accused of having worshippers
only because God gives them things. (like Job) The Devil said don't
help them out and they will curse you to your face. The Devil is
proven to be a liar every day.

>
>>>>Guess what. That will be the much better earth coming right up. So
>>>>what God wanted will eventually become a reality.
>>>
>>>It's been "coming right up" for thousands of years. and was promised to
>>>happen in 1914, 1925, 1975, 2000...
>>
>>And its coming right up soon. I don't recall 1914, and definitely need
>>your proof for 1925 and 1975. And show me your proof for 2000.
>>I was a JW in 1975 and our congregation NEVER prophesied the end was
>>coming that year. So I need to see your proof.
>>
>>If you can't find or supply the proof, then you have no right to make
>>such accusations that are not true.
>>
>>>
>>>And it's not just earth that he couldn't get right.
>>>"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the
>>>first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. " Rev 21:1
>>>
>>>So who was responsible for heaven needing to be replaced?
>>>
>>>And how can this "much better earth" be without a sea?
>>
>>You need more knowledge about the Bible. Why would God destroy Heaven?
>
>God is insane?

No, just accusers of God.

>
>>He has already cleaned it up of those rebel angels. The new heaven (a
>>lofty position) is a new ruling party over the earth, which will be
>>God and Jesus and his associate 144,000 rulers.
>>
>>The new earth is an earth with wickedness removed. Thus only righteous
>>ones will be on this "new" earth.
>>
>>The sea represents chaotic mankind being tossed here and there, not
>>knowing the way out. That aspect of humanity will be removed.
>
>"God" represents the JW ruling elite.

More accurate, the "JW ruling elite" totally follow God.

>
>>Sincerely James
>>A much better earth is coming
>
>A much better earth brought to you by the same unchanging
>God that brought you this earth.

Give your thanks to Adam for this one. Give your thanks to God for the
upcoming paradise earth. (Rev 21:3,4; Luke 23:43)

Sincerely James
Why is it so hot nowadays?

[zeb...@windstream.net]

On Wed, 27 Jul 2022 15:46:02 +0100, John Ritson

<j.ri...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <se11ehtlj431v2jkf...@4ax.com>,
>zeb...@windstream.net writes
>>On Mon, 25 Jul 2022 10:38:28 +0100, John Ritson
>><j.ri...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>In article <q53rdhhree1i2tv3s...@4ax.com>,
>>>zeb...@windstream.net writes
>>>>On Sat, 23 Jul 2022 18:35:23 +1000, Lucifer
>>>><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 18:20:42 -0400, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Sincerely James
>>>>>>A much better earth is coming
>>>>>
>>>>>A much better earth brought to you by the same unchanging God
>>>>>that brought you this one.
>>>>
>>>>This is not the one God ORIGINALLY had in mind. Just read early
>>>>Genesis and see that God wanted perfect humans inhabited a paradise
>>>>earth, with no pain, nor sickness, nor death, etc.
>>>
>>>And this supposedly all-powerful entity couldn't arrange things that
>>>way. So it's not all-powerful, or it was lying or it doesn't exist.
>>
>>Or it exists but has some universal issues that need conclusions.
>So it's not all-powerful.

God delays for our benefit, not His.

>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Guess what. That will be the much better earth coming right up. So
>>>>what God wanted will eventually become a reality.
>>>
>>>It's been "coming right up" for thousands of years. and was promised to
>>>happen in 1914, 1925, 1975, 2000...
>>
>>And its coming right up soon. I don't recall 1914, and definitely need
>>your proof for 1925 and 1975. And show me your proof for 2000.

>"What, then, should we expect to take place? The chief thing to be
>restored is the human race to life; and since other Scriptures
>definitely fix the fact that there will be a resurrection of Abraham,
>Isaac, Jacob and other faithful ones of old, and that these will have
>the first favour, we may expect 1925 to witness the return of these
>faithful men of Israel from the condition of death , being resurrected
>and fully restored to perfect humanity and made the visible, legal
>representatives of the new order of things on earth." Millions Now
>Living Will Never Die! p.88"
>

Good example, but somewhat outdated. I think it came out around 1920.
If that quote is accurate, the brothers sure missed that one. But
God's organization at times didn't get everything perfectly correct.
Even in the Bible, they had incorrect ideas at times:

(Luke 19:11) While they were listening to these things, he told
another illustration, because he was near Jerusalem and they thought
that the Kingdom of God was going to appear instantly.

Acts 1:6,7,

"6 So when they had assembled, they asked him: “Lord, are you
restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” 7 He said to them: “It
does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father
has placed in his own jurisdiction."

And the JW organization admitted that they were wrong:

"In the lecture “Millions Now Living Will Never Die,” delivered by
J. F. Rutherford on March 21, 1920, at the Hippodrome in New York
City, attention was directed to the year 1925. On what basis was it
thought to be significant? In a booklet published in that same year,
1920, it was pointed out that if 70 full Jubilees were calculated from
what was understood to be the date when Israel entered the Promised
Land (instead of starting after the last typical Jubilee before the
Babylonian exile and then counting to the beginning of the Jubilee
year at the end of the 50th cycle), this could point to the year 1925.
On the basis of what was said there, many hoped that perhaps the
remaining ones of the little flock would receive their heavenly reward
by 1925. This year also was associated with expectations for
resurrection of faithful pre-Christian servants of God with a view to
their serving on earth as princely representatives of the heavenly
Kingdom. If that really occurred, it would mean that mankind had
entered an era in which death would cease to be master, and millions
then living could have the hope of never dying off the earth. What a
happy prospect! Though mistaken, they eagerly shared it with others."
(Proclaimers book, chapter 28, p. 632)

>
>
>
>
>>I was a JW in 1975 and our congregation NEVER prophesied the end was
>>coming that year. So I need to see your proof.
>>
>>If you can't find or supply the proof, then you have no right to make
>>such accusations that are not true.
>>
>>>
>>>And it's not just earth that he couldn't get right.
>>>"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the
>>>first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. " Rev 21:1
>>>
>>>So who was responsible for heaven needing to be replaced?
>>>
>>>And how can this "much better earth" be without a sea?
>>
>>You need more knowledge about the Bible. Why would God destroy Heaven?
>Because he's an all-powerful entity and he can?

Just because He can, doesn't mean He will. For instance, God could
torture you for an eternity. But that doesn't mean that He will.

>
>
>>He has already cleaned it up of those rebel angels. The new heaven (a
>>lofty position) is a new ruling party over the earth, which will be
>>God and Jesus and his associate 144,000 rulers.
>>
>>The new earth is an earth with wickedness removed. Thus only righteous
>>ones will be on this "new" earth.
>>
>>The sea represents chaotic mankind being tossed here and there, not
>>knowing the way out. That aspect of humanity will be removed.
>Does this symbolic interpretation also cover the prediction that
>carnivorous animals will become vegetarians?

That is in the Bible. So it will be. In the beginning ALL animals were
vegetarians:

(Genesis 1:29, 30) "Then God said: “Here I have given to you every
seed-bearing plant that is on the entire earth and every tree with
seed-bearing fruit. Let them serve as food for you. 30 And to every
wild animal of the earth and to every flying creature of the heavens
and to everything moving on the earth in which there is life, I have
given all green vegetation for food.” And it was so."

And the animals will resort back to that condition again:

(Isaiah 11:6-9) "The wolf will reside for a while with the lamb, And
with the young goat the leopard will lie down, And the calf and the
lion and the fattened animal will all be together; And a little boy
will lead them.  7 The cow and the bear will feed together, And their
young will lie down together. The lion will eat straw like the bull.
 8 The nursing child will play over the lair of a cobra, And a weaned
child will put his hand over the den of a poisonous snake.  9 They
will not cause any harm Or any ruin in all my holy mountain, Because
the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah As
the waters cover the sea."

Sincerely James
Why is it so hot nowadays?

[Lucifer]

On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 17:21:42 -0400, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:

>On Wed, 27 Jul 2022 15:06:30 +1000, Lucifer
><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 26 Jul 2022 20:31:48 -0400, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 25 Jul 2022 10:38:28 +0100, John Ritson
>>><j.ri...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <q53rdhhree1i2tv3s...@4ax.com>,
>>>>zeb...@windstream.net writes
>>>>>On Sat, 23 Jul 2022 18:35:23 +1000, Lucifer
>>>>><LuciferMo...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 18:20:42 -0400, zeb...@windstream.net wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Sincerely James
>>>>>>>A much better earth is coming
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A much better earth brought to you by the same unchanging God
>>>>>>that brought you this one.
>>>>>
>>>>>This is not the one God ORIGINALLY had in mind. Just read early
>>>>>Genesis and see that God wanted perfect humans inhabited a paradise
>>>>>earth, with no pain, nor sickness, nor death, etc.
>>>>
>>>>And this supposedly all-powerful entity couldn't arrange things that
>>>>way. So it's not all-powerful, or it was lying or it doesn't exist.
>>>
>>>Or it exists but has some universal issues that need conclusions.
>>
>>That's not possible.
>
>Oh, but it is. For example, God has been accused of having worshippers
>only because God gives them things. (like Job)

A good God would not be concerned about such petty things.

>The Devil said don't
>help them out and they will curse you to your face. The Devil is
>proven to be a liar every day.

A good God would not have created a Devil.

Remember Isaiah 55:8,
“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD.

>>>>>Guess what. That will be the much better earth coming right up. So
>>>>>what God wanted will eventually become a reality.
>>>>
>>>>It's been "coming right up" for thousands of years. and was promised to
>>>>happen in 1914, 1925, 1975, 2000...
>>>
>>>And its coming right up soon. I don't recall 1914, and definitely need
>>>your proof for 1925 and 1975. And show me your proof for 2000.
>>>I was a JW in 1975 and our congregation NEVER prophesied the end was
>>>coming that year. So I need to see your proof.
>>>
>>>If you can't find or supply the proof, then you have no right to make
>>>such accusations that are not true.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>And it's not just earth that he couldn't get right.
>>>>"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the
>>>>first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. " Rev 21:1
>>>>
>>>>So who was responsible for heaven needing to be replaced?
>>>>
>>>>And how can this "much better earth" be without a sea?
>>>
>>>You need more knowledge about the Bible. Why would God destroy Heaven?
>>
>>God is insane?
>
>No, just accusers of God.

What would anyone hope to achieve by accusing God?
They would know God is incapable of learning (Malachi 3:6)
and that God would take His frustration out on us.

>>>He has already cleaned it up of those rebel angels. The new heaven (a
>>>lofty position) is a new ruling party over the earth, which will be
>>>God and Jesus and his associate 144,000 rulers.
>>>
>>>The new earth is an earth with wickedness removed. Thus only righteous
>>>ones will be on this "new" earth.
>>>
>>>The sea represents chaotic mankind being tossed here and there, not
>>>knowing the way out. That aspect of humanity will be removed.
>>
>>"God" represents the JW ruling elite.
>
>More accurate, the "JW ruling elite" totally follow God.

The JW ruling elite exploit your naivety to control you.

>>>Sincerely James
>>>A much better earth is coming
>>
>>A much better earth brought to you by the same unchanging
>>God that brought you this earth.
>
>Give your thanks to Adam for this one.

What does Adam have to do with God bringing this earth to us?

>Give your thanks to God for the
>upcoming paradise earth. (Rev 21:3,4; Luke 23:43)

I don't give thanks for promises.

>Sincerely James
>Why is it so hot nowadays?

Perhaps because it is winter.

[Lucifer]

[zeb...@windstream.net]

On Sat, 30 Jul 2022 08:58:51 +1000, Lucifer

Your opinion does not match Bible facts.

>
>>The Devil said don't
>>help them out and they will curse you to your face. The Devil is
>>proven to be a liar every day.
>
>A good God would not have created a Devil.

Stubbornness is not becoming to you. I have repeatedly told you that
the Devil made himself a Satan and Devil.

>
>Remember Isaiah 55:8,
>“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
>neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD.

First of all, "LORD" is not found in that verse. The Tetragrammaton
is. Notice this more accurate translation:

(Isaiah 55:8) “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, And your ways
are not my ways,” declares Jehovah.

What is your point here?

>
>>>>>>Guess what. That will be the much better earth coming right up. So
>>>>>>what God wanted will eventually become a reality.
>>>>>
>>>>>It's been "coming right up" for thousands of years. and was promised to
>>>>>happen in 1914, 1925, 1975, 2000...
>>>>
>>>>And its coming right up soon. I don't recall 1914, and definitely need
>>>>your proof for 1925 and 1975. And show me your proof for 2000.
>>>>I was a JW in 1975 and our congregation NEVER prophesied the end was
>>>>coming that year. So I need to see your proof.
>>>>
>>>>If you can't find or supply the proof, then you have no right to make
>>>>such accusations that are not true.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>And it's not just earth that he couldn't get right.
>>>>>"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the
>>>>>first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. " Rev 21:1
>>>>>
>>>>>So who was responsible for heaven needing to be replaced?
>>>>>
>>>>>And how can this "much better earth" be without a sea?
>>>>
>>>>You need more knowledge about the Bible. Why would God destroy Heaven?
>>>
>>>God is insane?
>>
>>No, just accusers of God.
>
>What would anyone hope to achieve by accusing God?

You tell me. You do it all the time.

>They would know God is incapable of learning (Malachi 3:6)

God does not change His MORAL qualities. His learning is off the
charts. For example, how many stars are there in the universe?
God calls them all by name.

>and that God would take His frustration out on us.

God is love. He would never do that. Don't get justice mixed up with
reproving us.

>
>>>>He has already cleaned it up of those rebel angels. The new heaven (a
>>>>lofty position) is a new ruling party over the earth, which will be
>>>>God and Jesus and his associate 144,000 rulers.
>>>>
>>>>The new earth is an earth with wickedness removed. Thus only righteous
>>>>ones will be on this "new" earth.
>>>>
>>>>The sea represents chaotic mankind being tossed here and there, not
>>>>knowing the way out. That aspect of humanity will be removed.
>>>
>>>"God" represents the JW ruling elite.
>>
>>More accurate, the "JW ruling elite" totally follow God.
>
>The JW ruling elite exploit your naivety to control you.

BLEEP!! You lose.

We are controlled by no one. Don't get WILLINGLY believing something,
with mind control.

>
>>>>Sincerely James
>>>>A much better earth is coming
>>>
>>>A much better earth brought to you by the same unchanging
>>>God that brought you this earth.
>>
>>Give your thanks to Adam for this one.
>
>What does Adam have to do with God bringing this earth to us?

This earth of today, with all of its problems, is a result of Adam's
sin. But God will soon bring about a "new" earth (not a new planet)
where only righteousness will dwell.

>
>>Give your thanks to God for the
>>upcoming paradise earth. (Rev 21:3,4; Luke 23:43)
>
>I don't give thanks for promises.

Be glad at least there are promises from someone powerful enough to
carry them out.

>
>>Sincerely James
>>Why is it so hot nowadays?
>
>Perhaps because it is winter.

I keep trying to make a snowman, but it keeps melting.

Sincerely James
Why is it so hot nowadays?

[John Ritson]

In article <2sj8ehd22rlca3rdt...@4ax.com>,
zeb...@windstream.net writes

So the JWs continued the same scam used by the Millerites. Promise that
something wonderful is about to happen, and when it doesn't first try
stretching the dates a little, then say that the wonderful thing
actually has happened, but it happened in heaven where nobody on eart
could see it.

>
>"In the lecture “Millions Now Living Will Never Die,” delivered by
>J. F. Rutherford on March 21, 1920, at the Hippodrome in New York
>City, attention was directed to the year 1925. On what basis was it
>thought to be significant? In a booklet published in that same year,
>1920, it was pointed out that if 70 full Jubilees were calculated from
>what was understood to be the date when Israel entered the Promised
>Land (instead of starting after the last typical Jubilee before the
>Babylonian exile and then counting to the beginning of the Jubilee
>year at the end of the 50th cycle), this could point to the year 1925.
>On the basis of what was said there, many hoped that perhaps the
>remaining ones of the little flock would receive their heavenly reward
>by 1925. This year also was associated with expectations for
>resurrection of faithful pre-Christian servants of God with a view to
>their serving on earth as princely representatives of the heavenly
>Kingdom. If that really occurred, it would mean that mankind had
>entered an era in which death would cease to be master, and millions
>then living could have the hope of never dying off the earth. What a
>happy prospect! Though mistaken, they eagerly shared it with others."
>(Proclaimers book, chapter 28, p. 632)
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>I was a JW in 1975 and our congregation NEVER prophesied the end was
>>>coming that year. So I need to see your proof.

"Life everlasting in Freedom of the Sons of God"1966
"Shortly, within our generation, the symbolic trumpet will be sounded by
divine power, proclaiming 'liberty in the land to all its inhabitants'"

District overseer Charles Sunutko at a Wisconsin Convention 1967
"Well, we don't have to guess what the year 1975 means if we read the
Watchtower. And don't wait till 1975. The door is going to be shut
before then. As one brother put it: 'Stay Alive to Seventy-Five'"

And the poor old whales will be stranded without a sea.

>
>
>Sincerely James
>Why is it so hot nowadays?
>See what the Bible says
>At www.jw.org or jw.org
>
>
>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Sincerely James
>>>A much better earth is coming
>>>See what the Bible says
>>>At www.jw.org or jw.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Sincerely James
>>>>>A much better earth is coming
>>>>>See what the Bible says
>>>>>At www.jw.org or jw.org
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>John Ritson
>>
>>--
>>John Ritson

[Lucifer]

A good God would not behave the way the bible describes.

>>>The Devil said don't
>>>help them out and they will curse you to your face. The Devil is
>>>proven to be a liar every day.
>>
>>A good God would not have created a Devil.
>
>Stubbornness is not becoming to you.

You are being stubborn.

>I have repeatedly told you that
>the Devil made himself a Satan and Devil.

A good God would not have created the angel that
became Satan and Devil.

>>Remember Isaiah 55:8,
>>“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
>>neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD.
>
>First of all, "LORD" is not found in that verse.

Bleep! Wrong!
Isaiah 55:8 includes,
"declares the LORD."

>The Tetragrammaton
>is. Notice this more accurate translation:
>
>(Isaiah 55:8) “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, And your ways
>are not my ways,” declares Jehovah.
>
>What is your point here?

Isaiah 55:8 explains why God cannot meet our much higher standards.

>>>>>>>Guess what. That will be the much better earth coming right up. So
>>>>>>>what God wanted will eventually become a reality.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It's been "coming right up" for thousands of years. and was promised to
>>>>>>happen in 1914, 1925, 1975, 2000...
>>>>>
>>>>>And its coming right up soon. I don't recall 1914, and definitely need
>>>>>your proof for 1925 and 1975. And show me your proof for 2000.
>>>>>I was a JW in 1975 and our congregation NEVER prophesied the end was
>>>>>coming that year. So I need to see your proof.
>>>>>
>>>>>If you can't find or supply the proof, then you have no right to make
>>>>>such accusations that are not true.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>And it's not just earth that he couldn't get right.
>>>>>>"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the
>>>>>>first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. " Rev 21:1
>>>>>>
>>>>>>So who was responsible for heaven needing to be replaced?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>And how can this "much better earth" be without a sea?
>>>>>
>>>>>You need more knowledge about the Bible. Why would God destroy Heaven?
>>>>
>>>>God is insane?
>>>
>>>No, just accusers of God.
>>
>>What would anyone hope to achieve by accusing God?
>
>You tell me. You do it all the time.
>
>>They would know God is incapable of learning (Malachi 3:6)
>
>God does not change His MORAL qualities. His learning is off the
>charts. For example, how many stars are there in the universe?
>God calls them all by name.

God also has all our hairs numbered.

In Malachi 3:6 God says I change not.

>>and that God would take His frustration out on us.
>
>God is love.

What does that mean?

>He would never do that.

We are suffering now so God can win a bet.

>Don't get justice mixed up with reproving us.

A good God would not need to reprove us.

>>>>>He has already cleaned it up of those rebel angels. The new heaven (a
>>>>>lofty position) is a new ruling party over the earth, which will be
>>>>>God and Jesus and his associate 144,000 rulers.
>>>>>
>>>>>The new earth is an earth with wickedness removed. Thus only righteous
>>>>>ones will be on this "new" earth.
>>>>>
>>>>>The sea represents chaotic mankind being tossed here and there, not
>>>>>knowing the way out. That aspect of humanity will be removed.
>>>>
>>>>"God" represents the JW ruling elite.
>>>
>>>More accurate, the "JW ruling elite" totally follow God.
>>
>>The JW ruling elite exploit your naivety to control you.
>
>BLEEP!! You lose.

We all lose.

>We are controlled by no one. Don't get WILLINGLY believing something,
>with mind control.

It's part of our nature to want to dominate.

>>>>>Sincerely James
>>>>>A much better earth is coming
>>>>
>>>>A much better earth brought to you by the same unchanging
>>>>God that brought you this earth.
>>>
>>>Give your thanks to Adam for this one.
>>
>>What does Adam have to do with God bringing this earth to us?
>
>This earth of today, with all of its problems, is a result of Adam's
>sin.

That's unpossible. Sin can't cause anything.

>But God will soon bring about a "new" earth (not a new planet)
>where only righteousness will dwell.

A "new" earth brought to you by the same unchanging

God that brought you this earth.

>>>Give your thanks to God for the
>>>upcoming paradise earth. (Rev 21:3,4; Luke 23:43)
>>
>>I don't give thanks for promises.
>
>Be glad at least there are promises from someone powerful enough to
>carry them out.

Do you give thanks to God for your panic attacks?

>>>Sincerely James
>>>Why is it so hot nowadays?
>>
>>Perhaps because it is winter.
>
>I keep trying to make a snowman, but it keeps melting.

It's not that cold here.
It's 5.9 degrees outside ATM.

>Sincerely James
>Why is it so hot nowadays?

That would be the hot air coming from James.

[Ted]

Thanks for pointing this out, James. I'd overlooked it until now.

[zeb...@windstream.net]

On Sat, 30 Jul 2022 21:15:22 +1000, Lucifer

You (and I) are a small piece of dust from the ground, and you propose
to tell how an all powerful God should behave?

>
>>>>The Devil said don't
>>>>help them out and they will curse you to your face. The Devil is
>>>>proven to be a liar every day.
>>>
>>>A good God would not have created a Devil.
>>
>>Stubbornness is not becoming to you.
>
>You are being stubborn.
>
>>I have repeatedly told you that
>>the Devil made himself a Satan and Devil.
>
>A good God would not have created the angel that
>became Satan and Devil.

You need a feather duster.

>
>>>Remember Isaiah 55:8,
>>>“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
>>>neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD.
>>
>>First of all, "LORD" is not found in that verse.
>
>Bleep! Wrong!
>Isaiah 55:8 includes,
>"declares the LORD."

That is an incorrect translation. The oldest copy has the
Tetragrammaton there. See below.

>
>>The Tetragrammaton
>>is. Notice this more accurate translation:
>>
>>(Isaiah 55:8) “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, And your ways
>>are not my ways,” declares Jehovah.
>>
>>What is your point here?
>
>Isaiah 55:8 explains why God cannot meet our much higher standards.

You got that backwards. We can't meet God's extremely high standards.

I doubt if He cares to waste His time on that. That is a grammar
device known as a hyperbole.

>
>In Malachi 3:6 God says I change not.

We have been over that many times.

>
>>>and that God would take His frustration out on us.
>>
>>God is love.
>
>What does that mean?

You don't know what LOVE is?

>
>>He would never do that.
>
>We are suffering now so God can win a bet.

God doesn't gamble, esp with our lives. That is one universal issue
that has to be settled once and for all.

>
>>Don't get justice mixed up with reproving us.
>
>A good God would not need to reprove us.

You have got to be kidding. We need more reproving as never before.
The world is a sick place and we all need repentance.

>
>>>>>>He has already cleaned it up of those rebel angels. The new heaven (a
>>>>>>lofty position) is a new ruling party over the earth, which will be
>>>>>>God and Jesus and his associate 144,000 rulers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The new earth is an earth with wickedness removed. Thus only righteous
>>>>>>ones will be on this "new" earth.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The sea represents chaotic mankind being tossed here and there, not
>>>>>>knowing the way out. That aspect of humanity will be removed.
>>>>>
>>>>>"God" represents the JW ruling elite.
>>>>
>>>>More accurate, the "JW ruling elite" totally follow God.
>>>
>>>The JW ruling elite exploit your naivety to control you.
>>
>>BLEEP!! You lose.
>
>We all lose.

Truth can remove losses.

>
>>We are controlled by no one. Don't get WILLINGLY believing something,
>>with mind control.
>
>It's part of our nature to want to dominate.

Your nature maybe, but not millions of us.

>
>>>>>>Sincerely James
>>>>>>A much better earth is coming
>>>>>
>>>>>A much better earth brought to you by the same unchanging
>>>>>God that brought you this earth.
>>>>
>>>>Give your thanks to Adam for this one.
>>>
>>>What does Adam have to do with God bringing this earth to us?
>>
>>This earth of today, with all of its problems, is a result of Adam's
>>sin.
>
>That's unpossible. Sin can't cause anything.

Just step out on your porch and look around. Sin is all around us on a
daily basis.

>
>>But God will soon bring about a "new" earth (not a new planet)
>>where only righteousness will dwell.
>
>A "new" earth brought to you by the same unchanging
>God that brought you this earth.

Humans have messed up this earth. Not God: Re 11:18,

"...The time has come to destroy those who are destroying the earth."
(NJB)

>
>>>>Give your thanks to God for the

>>>>upcoming paradise earth. (Rev 21:3,4; Luke 23:43)
>>>
>>>I don't give thanks for promises.
>>
>>Be glad at least there are promises from someone powerful enough to
>>carry them out.
>
>Do you give thanks to God for your panic attacks?

Nor do I for my toothaches, headaches, colds, etc.

>
>>>>Sincerely James
>>>>Why is it so hot nowadays?
>>>
>>>Perhaps because it is winter.
>>
>>I keep trying to make a snowman, but it keeps melting.
>
>It's not that cold here.
>It's 5.9 degrees outside ATM.

Where's that?

>
>>Sincerely James
>>Why is it so hot nowadays?
>
>That would be the hot air coming from James.

Yup, it's right at 98.6 degrees F.

Sincerely James
Why is it so hot nowadays?

[Lucifer]

Of course. Do you lack that ability?

>>>>>The Devil said don't
>>>>>help them out and they will curse you to your face. The Devil is
>>>>>proven to be a liar every day.
>>>>
>>>>A good God would not have created a Devil.
>>>
>>>Stubbornness is not becoming to you.
>>
>>You are being stubborn.
>>
>>>I have repeatedly told you that
>>>the Devil made himself a Satan and Devil.
>>
>>A good God would not have created the angel that
>>became Satan and Devil.
>
>You need a feather duster.

A good God would not have created the angel that
became Satan and Devil.

>>>>Remember Isaiah 55:8,
>>>>“For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
>>>>neither are your ways my ways,” declares the LORD.
>>>
>>>First of all, "LORD" is not found in that verse.
>>
>>Bleep! Wrong!
>>Isaiah 55:8 includes,
>>"declares the LORD."
>
>That is an incorrect translation.

Who are you to decide which translation is correct?

>The oldest copy has the
>Tetragrammaton there. See below.
>
>>
>>>The Tetragrammaton
>>>is. Notice this more accurate translation:
>>>
>>>(Isaiah 55:8) “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, And your ways
>>>are not my ways,” declares Jehovah.
>>>
>>>What is your point here?
>>
>>Isaiah 55:8 explains why God cannot meet our much higher standards.
>
>You got that backwards. We can't meet God's extremely high standards.

God's standards are not suitable for us.

>>>>>>>>>Guess what. That will be the much better earth coming right up. So
>>>>>>>>>what God wanted will eventually become a reality.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>It's been "coming right up" for thousands of years. and was promised to
>>>>>>>>happen in 1914, 1925, 1975, 2000...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>And its coming right up soon. I don't recall 1914, and definitely need
>>>>>>>your proof for 1925 and 1975. And show me your proof for 2000.
>>>>>>>I was a JW in 1975 and our congregation NEVER prophesied the end was
>>>>>>>coming that year. So I need to see your proof.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>If you can't find or supply the proof, then you have no right to make
>>>>>>>such accusations that are not true.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>And it's not just earth that he couldn't get right.
>>>>>>>>"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the
>>>>>>>>first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. " Rev 21:1
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>So who was responsible for heaven needing to be replaced?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>And how can this "much better earth" be without a sea?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>You need more knowledge about the Bible. Why would God destroy Heaven?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>God is insane?
>>>>>
>>>>>No, just accusers of God.
>>>>
>>>>What would anyone hope to achieve by accusing God?
>>>
>>>You tell me. You do it all the time.
>>>
>>>>They would know God is incapable of learning (Malachi 3:6)
>>>
>>>God does not change His MORAL qualities. His learning is off the
>>>charts. For example, how many stars are there in the universe?
>>>God calls them all by name.

I doubt if He cares to waste His time on that. That is a grammar
device known as a hyperbole.

>>God also has all our hairs numbered.
>
>I doubt if He cares to waste His time on that. That is a grammar
>device known as a hyperbole.

It might explain why God has no time for His moral obligation
of care.

>>In Malachi 3:6 God says I change not.
>
>We have been over that many times.

Not enough times it seems.

>>>>and that God would take His frustration out on us.
>>>
>>>God is love.
>>
>>What does that mean?
>
>You don't know what LOVE is?

What does God IS love mean?

>>>He would never do that.
>>
>>We are suffering now so God can win a bet.
>
>God doesn't gamble, esp with our lives. That is one universal issue
>that has to be settled once and for all.

A good God would not be concerned about such things.

>>>Don't get justice mixed up with reproving us.
>>
>>A good God would not need to reprove us.
>
>You have got to be kidding. We need more reproving as never before.
>The world is a sick place and we all need repentance.

A good God would not allow us to need reproving.

>>>>>>>He has already cleaned it up of those rebel angels. The new heaven (a
>>>>>>>lofty position) is a new ruling party over the earth, which will be
>>>>>>>God and Jesus and his associate 144,000 rulers.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The new earth is an earth with wickedness removed. Thus only righteous
>>>>>>>ones will be on this "new" earth.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The sea represents chaotic mankind being tossed here and there, not
>>>>>>>knowing the way out. That aspect of humanity will be removed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"God" represents the JW ruling elite.
>>>>>
>>>>>More accurate, the "JW ruling elite" totally follow God.
>>>>
>>>>The JW ruling elite exploit your naivety to control you.
>>>
>>>BLEEP!! You lose.
>>
>>We all lose.
>
>Truth can remove losses.

How so?

>>>We are controlled by no one. Don't get WILLINGLY believing something,
>>>with mind control.
>>
>>It's part of our nature to want to dominate.
>
>Your nature maybe, but not millions of us.

It's in our nature and the nature of cows and birds.

>>>>>>>Sincerely James
>>>>>>>A much better earth is coming
>>>>>>
>>>>>>A much better earth brought to you by the same unchanging
>>>>>>God that brought you this earth.
>>>>>
>>>>>Give your thanks to Adam for this one.
>>>>
>>>>What does Adam have to do with God bringing this earth to us?
>>>
>>>This earth of today, with all of its problems, is a result of Adam's
>>>sin.
>>
>>That's unpossible. Sin can't cause anything.
>
>Just step out on your porch and look around. Sin is all around us on a
>daily basis.

God uses sin as an excuse to abuse us.

>>>But God will soon bring about a "new" earth (not a new planet)
>>>where only righteousness will dwell.
>>
>>A "new" earth brought to you by the same unchanging
>>God that brought you this earth.
>
>Humans have messed up this earth. Not God: Re 11:18,
>
>"...The time has come to destroy those who are destroying the earth."
>(NJB)

How are we going to destroy God and Jesus?

>>>>>Give your thanks to God for the
>>>>>upcoming paradise earth. (Rev 21:3,4; Luke 23:43)
>>>>
>>>>I don't give thanks for promises.
>>>
>>>Be glad at least there are promises from someone powerful enough to
>>>carry them out.
>>
>>Do you give thanks to God for your panic attacks?
>
>Nor do I for my toothaches, headaches, colds, etc.

Do you give thanks to God for your panic attacks?

>Sincerely James

[Lucifer]

[zeb...@windstream.net]

On Sat, 30 Jul 2022 11:07:00 +0100, John Ritson

They just try the best they can to understand the Bible. If that's a
crime, then we are guilty.

I totally challenge you to find in the JW literature, that the end of
the world will come in 1975. I was around then, and our congregation
never thought that. And I have never seen that prediction in the JW
literature.

That is not a literal sea. It is the restless sea of mankind that is
tossed hither and thither not knowing where it is going.

[zeb...@windstream.net]

>> "6 So when they had assembled, they asked him: ?Lord, are you
>> restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?? 7 He said to them:
>?It

>> does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father
>> has placed in his own jurisdiction."
>
>
>> And the JW organization admitted that they were wrong:
>
>

>> "In the lecture ?Millions Now Living Will Never Die,? delivered by

>> (Genesis 1:29, 30) "Then God said: ?Here I have given to you every

>> seed-bearing plant that is on the entire earth and every tree with
>> seed-bearing fruit. Let them serve as food for you. 30 And to every
>> wild animal of the earth and to every flying creature of the heavens
>> and to everything moving on the earth in which there is life, I have

>> given all green vegetation for food.? And it

>> was so."
>
>
>Thanks for pointing this out, James. I'd overlooked it until now.

[zeb...@windstream.net]

On Sat, 30 Jul 2022 13:20:16 -0700, Robert <no...@none.com> wrote:

>On Jul 30, 2022, Ted wrote
>(in article<almarsoft.4040...@news.easynews.com>):
>
>> > Acts 1:6,7,
>>
>> > "6So when they had assembled, they asked him: “Lord, are you
>> > restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?�€ 7He said to them:

>> “It
>> > does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father
>> > has placed in his own jurisdiction."
>

>This ha to do with the restored Kingdom of Israel, not the rapture, the
>snatching away of the body of Christ.

The "rapture" is science fiction. It should have been written into
Star Trek.

It is a teaching of men, misapplying the Bible scripture of 1 Th
4:17. Even the word "rapture" is not in the Bible.

Even if there was such a thing as a RAPTURE to Heaven, no meek ones
would ever be taken. All the meek ones will live on the earth. (Mt
5:5)

[John Ritson]

In article <st4geh14d4cfvp5m9...@4ax.com>,

They are also guilty of modifying their version of the Bible so that the
words fit their doctrine.

According to David Splane, God might sentence you and others to a
thousand years working in factories, in order to provide all the stuff
needed so that some people can swan around presenting each other with
gifts of fruit.

As I said, if the good stuff demonstrably hasn't happened, just claim
that it has happened, but in some spiritual sense.

[zeb...@windstream.net]

On Mon, 01 Aug 2022 16:05:20 -0700, Robert <no...@none.com> wrote:

>On Aug 1, 2022, zeb...@windstream.net wrote
>(in article<qa6gehh304tetk5hp...@4ax.com>):

>
>> On Sat, 30 Jul 2022 13:20:16 -0700, Robert<no...@none.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Jul 30, 2022, Ted wrote
>> > (in article<almarsoft.4040...@news.easynews.com>):
>> >
>> > > > Acts 1:6,7,
>> > >
>> > > > "6So when they had assembled, they asked him: “Lord, are you
>> > > > restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?�€ 7He said to them:
>> > > “It
>> > > > does not belong to you to know the times or seasons that the Father
>> > > > has placed in his own jurisdiction."
>> >
>> > This ha to do with the restored Kingdom of Israel, not the rapture, the
>> > snatching away of the body of Christ.
>>
>> The "rapture" is science fiction. It should have been written into
>> Star Trek.
>

>Which has nothing to do with what I said.

>>
>> It is a teaching of men, misapplying the Bible scripture of 1 Th
>> 4:17. Even the word "rapture" is not in the Bible.
>>
>> Even if there was such a thing as a RAPTURE to Heaven, no meek ones
>> would ever be taken. All the meek ones will live on the earth. (Mt
>> 5:5)
>

>You are in error here, the word rapture was in the vulgate for years and then
>translated into English the word is recognized as rapture, you know that as
>well as I do, I also used the words "snatching away" as the verses below
>state "snatch up" which as I have said before, is an action so quick as to be
>considered a violent or very sudden action of being grasped and taken out.
>
>As to the meek, it matters not. They cannot pick themselves up by their own
>bootstraps let alone be "caught up" in the third heaven.
>
>1Th 4:13-17
>
>13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which
>are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
>
>14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which
>sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
>
>15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive
>and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are
>asleep.

Notice the dead are "asleep".

>
>16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the
>voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ
>shall rise first:
>
>17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them
>in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the
>Lord.

Watch out for air traffic up to around 35,000 feet. And you will need
to take along thick winter clothes, since it is freezing up there. And
you will need an oxygen tank since the air is too thin for most people
to breath.

I believe 17 is talking about the first resurrection. Those of the
144,000 which will help Jesus rule over the earth.

>
>The problem with these scriptures is that you do not believe them, just like
>you do not believe on the laying on of hands to receive healings, baptisms in
>the Holy Spirit, etc.
>

Have you ever seen a terminal cancer patient be cured by the laying on
of hands? Or an amputee growing a new leg?

All JW's are baptized in the Holy Spirit. And they all believe the
Bible 100%. They all have the same beliefs, regardless what country
you go to. And that is one sign of the true religion:

-- King James
1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our
Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be
no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in
the same mind and in the same judgment.

JW's are.

Also, there is a Scripture that must be fulfilled in the last days.
And the JW's alone are fulfilling it:

-- King James
Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all
the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

That the JW's are preaching the kingdom message, can be proven by
looking at the cover of any Watchtower magazine.

By the way, if things stay the same, the door to door preaching will
start again September 1.

Sincerely James
Is badness effecting more people?

[zeb...@windstream.net]

On Fri, 05 Aug 2022 19:15:22 -0700, Robert <no...@none.com> wrote:

>On Aug 5, 2022, zeb...@windstream.net wrote
>(in article<fbbrehtp8j94qn9qu...@4ax.com>):

>Did you also notice verse 16? No?

", and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first."

Yes, the dead are sleeping.
>
>When your granny died did you use the words "Pass away"

I don't recall, that was so long ago.

>
>“And when Jesus came into the ruler's house, and saw the minstrels and the
>people making a noise, He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not
>dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn.” (Mat 9:23-24)

Yes, the dead are like they are asleep. They are neither in Heaven, or
a hellfire place.

>
>Do you not understand the Christ? His teachings state that the Believer is
>Born Again unto eternal life, does he lie?
>
>Know you not what the Lord created when he Created men?

Jesus assisted God while God did His creations.

>
>>
>>
>> >
>> > 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the
>> > voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ
>> > shall rise first:
>> >
>> > 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them
>> > in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the
>> > Lord.
>>
>> Watch out for air traffic up to around 35,000 feet. And you will need
>> to take along thick winter clothes, since it is freezing up there. And
>> you will need an oxygen tank since the air is too thin for most people
>> to breath.
>

>When the believer is resurrected at the end of the age of the Gentiles, he
>will be like Jesus, because our unredeemed Bodies will be redeemed on that
>day. The very day that Victory over death has been realized. On that day, all
>the JW's that rejected the cult and gave their lives to Jesus and accepted
>him into their hearts, they will be gone with us, for they are one with the
>Body of Christ.

At the end of days, all false religions will be quickly destroyed. You
will be shocked when you see that happen. But you will surprisingly
see JW's still going strong for a while. Then the Devil will attack
them. And some may lose their lives. But that attack will be like
touching God's eyeball. And God will retaliate.


>Jesus walked through thick stone walls after he was resurrected, we will be
>like him. So do you really think a tin foil jet will be any problem to us?

I am surprised someone would build such a thing.

>>
>>
>> I believe 17 is talking about the first resurrection. Those of the
>> 144,000 which will help Jesus rule over the earth.
>

>You might very well believe that, yet you have no supporting scripture for
>it. In any fashion. It is also for sure that you will have no part with them,
>nor anyone in your cult.

Look up the word cult. The modern definition does not describe JW's.
We do not all live together in one place. We have no highly
influencing evangelizer giving talks all day. We don't encourage
having guns and weapons stocked up.

On the other hand, we do copy Jesus and other Christians of the first
century. We also go by the Bible. Like Jesus did, we warn people of
false religious teachings, we study the Bible as a family at home, and
are fulfilling the Scripture at Mt 24:14 preaching the good news of
God's kingdom throughout the earth. (see the cover of any Watchtower
magazine)

>>
>>
>> >
>> > The problem with these scriptures is that you do not believe them, just like
>> > you do not believe on the laying on of hands to receive healings, baptisms
>> > in
>> > the Holy Spirit, etc.
>>
>> Have you ever seen a terminal cancer patient be cured by the laying on
>> of hands? Or an amputee growing a new leg?
>

>Yes, as to the cancer, no as to the amputee, but I know from believable
>people that that has happened as had arms, teeth, blonde eyes, etc.

That's great for the one with cancer. I am glad for him. But when
Jesus did healings ALL people were cured. Do all your laying on of
hands always produce a cure? If its from God, it should.

>> All JW's are baptized in the Holy Spirit. And they all believe the
>> Bible 100%. They all have the same beliefs, regardless what country
>> you go to. And that is one sign of the true religion:
>

>No JW has been baptized with the Holy Spirit of God, none believe the Bible
>as written, you have proven that many, many, times.

Can I fully disagree? We have PROVEN many times that we really do
follow the Bible. For example, during wartime when the churches
encourage their flocks to support the war of the country they are in,
JW's many times go to jail for following Jesus' statements such as:

(Matthew 5:44) However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies
and to pray for those who persecute you,

>They do not all have the
>same belief since when your cult changes thoughts and ideas, and get a core
>group to accept it, it takes a long while for that word to travel the word to
>every individual.

Nonsense. Unlike the churches who have many splits and many
disagreements, JW's are in agreement. Go to another country and to a
Kingdom Hall, a notice the same beliefs.

Churches also get involved in politics which causes divisions. JW's
have no such problems. They are all immersed in Bible truths.

>
>Just imagine all the dead JW's who died believing one thing that you now
>recant and believe something else.

Think of all the OT Bible characters who get resurrected and find out
that the Mosaic Laws were no longer required!
>
>Did those people speak in tongues? Did they prophesy? No?

How do you know. Were you there in the first century?

>>
>>
>> -- King James
>> 1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our
>> Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be
>> no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in
>> the same mind and in the same judgment.
>

>There were no JW's at that time, and for centuries the JW's have not
>considered Jesus as God, especially not God the creator.

There were certainly witnesses of 'Jehovah' in the first century,
Jesus being foremost. Jesus said I will make your name known. Of
course, Jesus used His actual name at the time.
>>
>>
>> JW's are.
>
>No they are not. Some of them said I was a "Spiritual one" aka one of the
>144K Do you?

No. (Rev 14:1; 7:4)

>>
>>
>> Also, there is a Scripture that must be fulfilled in the last days.
>> And the JW's alone are fulfilling it:
>

>Yes. False prophets who teach another Gospel to which people Paul said to
>leave them be accursed.

Right now millions disagree with your opinion!

>>
>>
>> -- King James
>> Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all
>> the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
>>
>> That the JW's are preaching the kingdom message, can be proven by
>> looking at the cover of any Watchtower magazine.
>

>You are not preaching the Gospel message of the Kingdom of God. You share a
>false doctrine, one without the power of God, without the wisdom of God, and
>one whose leader is the god of this earth.

If money was wrongness, you would be a Billionaire.

Does your church "love your enemies"? Yes or no? Then do they support
the wars of this world? The true religion, the JW's, follows the Bible
and does not.

>>
>>
>> By the way, if things stay the same, the door to door preaching will
>> start again September 1.
>

>Why did it stop? You had no faith? No power? Did you live in fear?

We love our fellow man and did not want to spread the Covid 19 to
them. That is said if your church did not.

[zeb...@windstream.net]

On Sun, 07 Aug 2022 12:56:21 -0700, Robert <no...@none.com> wrote:

>On Aug 7, 2022, zeb...@windstream.net wrote
>(in article<ghsveh1724rgmjio3...@4ax.com>):

>
>> On Fri, 05 Aug 2022 19:15:22 -0700, Robert<no...@none.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On Aug 5, 2022, zeb...@windstream.net wrote
>> > (in article<fbbrehtp8j94qn9qu...@4ax.com>):
>> >
>> > > On Mon, 01 Aug 2022 16:05:20 -0700, Robert<no...@none.com> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > On Aug 1, 2022, zeb...@windstream.net wrote
>> > > > (in article<qa6gehh304tetk5hp...@4ax.com>):
>> > > >
>> > > > > On Sat, 30 Jul 2022 13:20:16 -0700, Robert<no...@none.com> wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > On Jul 30, 2022, Ted wrote
>> > > > > > (in article<almarsoft.4040...@news.easynews.com>):
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Acts 1:6,7,
>> > > > > > >

>> > > > > > > > "6So when they had assembled, they asked him: “Lord, are you
>> > > > > > > > restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?†7He said to them:
>> > > > > > > “It

>At that time, before the resurrection of Jesus, they went to the bosom of
>Abraham or Hell, and you know that or else you lie about believing all the
>Bible.

Good afternoon Robert. Hope all are well.

Abraham must have had one super bosom. Also, what's he doing alive
when he apparently already died and the resurrection hasn't happened
yet: (the dead are 'sleeping')

-- King James
Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the
dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the
memory of them is forgotten.

-- King James
Psalms 146:3,4
3. Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom
there is no help.
4. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very
day his thoughts perish.

>>
>>
>> >
>> > Do you not understand the Christ? His teachings state that the Believer is
>> > Born Again unto eternal life, does he lie?
>> >
>> > Know you not what the Lord created when he Created men?
>>
>> Jesus assisted God while God did His creations.
>

>Scripture? And while you are at it is not Jesus God?

(Colossians 1:13-20) He rescued us from the authority of the darkness
and transferred us into the kingdom of his beloved Son, 14 by means of
whom we have our release by ransom, the forgiveness of our sins. 15 He
is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;
16 because by means of him all other things were created in the
heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible,
whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities.
All other things have been created through him and for him. 17 Also,
he is before all other things, and by means of him all other things
were made to exist, 18 and he is the head of the body, the
congregation. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so
that he might become the one who is first in all things; 19 because
God was pleased to have all fullness to dwell in him, 20 and through
him to reconcile to himself all other things by making peace through
the blood he shed on the torture stake, whether the things on the
earth or the things in the heavens.

Things were created THROUGH Jesus. We don't know exactly what that
means other than Jesus assisted God in some way.

Jesus is NOT Almighty God. Paul makes that clear. When Jesus was

resurrected and up in Heaven with God, Paul wrote:

-- King James

1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every
man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of
Christ is God.

Yes, even in Heaven, the head of Jesus is God. Thus Jesus is always
inferior to Almighty God:

-- King James
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come
again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go
unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Sincerely James
Is badness effecting more people?
See what the Bible says
At www.jw.org or jw.org


>>
>>
>> >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > >

>> > > > 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the
>> > > > voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ
>> > > > shall rise first:
>> > > >
>> > > > 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with
>> > > > them
>> > > > in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with
>> > > > the
>> > > > Lord.
>> > >
>> > > Watch out for air traffic up to around 35,000 feet. And you will need
>> > > to take along thick winter clothes, since it is freezing up there. And
>> > > you will need an oxygen tank since the air is too thin for most people
>> > > to breath.
>> >
>> > When the believer is resurrected at the end of the age of the Gentiles, he
>> > will be like Jesus, because our unredeemed Bodies will be redeemed on that
>> > day. The very day that Victory over death has been realized. On that day,
>> > all
>> > the JW's that rejected the cult and gave their lives to Jesus and accepted
>> > him into their hearts, they will be gone with us, for they are one with the
>> > Body of Christ.
>>
>> At the end of days, all false religions will be quickly destroyed. You
>> will be shocked when you see that happen. But you will surprisingly
>> see JW's still going strong for a while. Then the Devil will attack
>> them. And some may lose their lives. But that attack will be like
>> touching God's eyeball. And God will retaliate.
>

>What end of days? Be specific.

>>
>>
>> > Jesus walked through thick stone walls after he was resurrected, we will be
>> > like him. So do you really think a tin foil jet will be any problem to us?
>>
>> I am surprised someone would build such a thing.
>

>Why?

>>
>>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > I believe 17 is talking about the first resurrection. Those of the
>> > > 144,000 which will help Jesus rule over the earth.
>> >
>> > You might very well believe that, yet you have no supporting scripture for
>> > it. In any fashion. It is also for sure that you will have no part with
>> > them, nor anyone in your cult.
>>
>> Look up the word cult. The modern definition does not describe JW's.
>> We do not all live together in one place. We have no highly
>> influencing evangelizer giving talks all day. We don't encourage
>> having guns and weapons stocked up.
>

>It does describe the JW

>>
>>
>> On the other hand, we do copy Jesus and other Christians of the first
>> century. We also go by the Bible. Like Jesus did, we warn people of
>> false religious teachings, we study the Bible as a family at home, and
>> are fulfilling the Scripture at Mt 24:14 preaching the good news of
>> God's kingdom throughout the earth. (see the cover of any Watchtower
>> magazine)
>

>Do you heal the sick? Cast out demons, work miracles? Multiple food to feed
>the masses, do you exhibit any of the Power of God? You do none of those
>things from the early church and are deceived.

>>
>>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > > The problem with these scriptures is that you do not believe them, just
>> > > > like
>> > > > you do not believe on the laying on of hands to receive healings, baptisms
>> > > > in
>> > > > the Holy Spirit, etc.
>> > >
>> > > Have you ever seen a terminal cancer patient be cured by the laying on
>> > > of hands? Or an amputee growing a new leg?
>> >
>> > Yes, as to the cancer, no as to the amputee, but I know from believable
>> > people that that has happened as had arms, teeth, blonde eyes, etc.
>>
>> That's great for the one with cancer. I am glad for him. But when
>> Jesus did healings ALL people were cured. Do all your laying on of
>> hands always produce a cure? If its from God, it should.
>

>“And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and
>preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and
>all manner of disease among the people.” (Mat 4:23)
>
>“And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their
>synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every
>sickness and every disease among the people.” (Mat 9:35)
>
>Healing all who were oppressed of the devil,
>
>“How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who
>went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for
>God was with him.” (Act 10:38)

>
>>
>> > > All JW's are baptized in the Holy Spirit. And they all believe the
>> > > Bible 100%. They all have the same beliefs, regardless what country
>> > > you go to. And that is one sign of the true religion:
>> >
>> > No JW has been baptized with the Holy Spirit of God, none believe the Bible
>> > as written, you have proven that many, many, times.
>>
>> Can I fully disagree? We have PROVEN many times that we really do
>> follow the Bible. For example, during wartime when the churches
>> encourage their flocks to support the war of the country they are in,
>> JW's many times go to jail for following Jesus' statements such as:
>>
>> (Matthew 5:44) However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies
>> and to pray for those who persecute you,
>

>You did not show where any JW was baptized with the Holy Spirit of God, but
>as usual changed the subject so as to deny your previous claim.

>>
>>
>> > They do not all have the
>> > same belief since when your cult changes thoughts and ideas, and get a core
>> > group to accept it, it takes a long while for that word to travel the word
>> > to
>> > every individual.
>>
>> Nonsense. Unlike the churches who have many splits and many
>> disagreements, JW's are in agreement. Go to another country and to a
>> Kingdom Hall, a notice the same beliefs.
>>
>> Churches also get involved in politics which causes divisions. JW's
>> have no such problems. They are all immersed in Bible truths.
>

>Your truths vary from decade to decade and you have admitted that, Therefore
>early JW's died not knowing what you claim now.

>>
>>
>> >
>> > Just imagine all the dead JW's who died believing one thing that you now
>> > recant and believe something else.
>>
>> Think of all the OT Bible characters who get resurrected and find out
>> that the Mosaic Laws were no longer required!
>

>They already know that, and they were all saved in faith by the Blood of the
>Lamb of God. In their annual sacrifice for the sins of the nation.

>>
>> >
>> > Did those people speak in tongues? Did they prophesy? No?
>>
>> How do you know. Were you there in the first century?
>

>Why can't you stay on topic? You brought it up, I know since I read and study
>the scriptures. Not the dung that the JWs pass out to their members,

>>
>>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > -- King James
>> > > 1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our
>> > > Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be
>> > > no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in
>> > > the same mind and in the same judgment.
>> >
>> > There were no JW's at that time, and for centuries the JW's have not
>> > considered Jesus as God, especially not God the creator.
>>
>> There were certainly witnesses of 'Jehovah' in the first century,
>> Jesus being foremost. Jesus said I will make your name known. Of
>> course, Jesus used His actual name at the time.
>

>Making excuses again?

>>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > JW's are.
>> >
>> > No they are not. Some of them said I was a "Spiritual one" aka one of the
>> > 144K Do you?
>>
>> No. (Rev 14:1; 7:4)
>

>They did. And you did not mention anything about the spiritual ones. In the
>day that they said I was a spiritual one, they believed that there would be
>144K spiritual believers alive on the earth before the next event would
>happen. Such is the morphing of your organization due to being caught in
>lies.

>>
>>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Also, there is a Scripture that must be fulfilled in the last days.
>> > > And the JW's alone are fulfilling it:
>> >
>> > Yes. False prophets who teach another Gospel to which people Paul said to
>> > leave them be accursed.
>>
>> Right now millions disagree with your opinion!
>

>Possibly, as they are the accursed of God, the False Prophets that Jesus
>spoke of as well as the Apostles.

>>
>>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > -- King James
>> > > Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all
>> > > the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
>> > >
>> > > That the JW's are preaching the kingdom message, can be proven by
>> > > looking at the cover of any Watchtower magazine.
>> >
>> > You are not preaching the Gospel message of the Kingdom of God. You share a
>> > false doctrine, one without the power of God, without the wisdom of God, and
>> > one whose leader is the god of this earth.
>>
>> If money was wrongness, you would be a Billionaire.
>>
>> Does your church "love your enemies"? Yes or no? Then do they support
>> the wars of this world? The true religion, the JW's, follows the Bible
>> and does not.
>

>The Body of Christ is not a religion. You are as deceived as the RCC and the
>Orthodox who likewise claim the same thing You should establish a showdown
>with them Like Elijah did with the prophets of BAAL.

>>
>>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > By the way, if things stay the same, the door to door preaching will
>> > > start again September 1.
>> >
>> > Why did it stop? You had no faith? No power? Did you live in fear?
>>
>> We love our fellow man and did not want to spread the Covid 19 to
>> them. That is said if your church did not.
>

>You were short of faith and make yourself out to be a nice guy as an excuse
>for your weaknesses.

[zeb...@windstream.net]

On Mon, 08 Aug 2022 13:45:07 -0700, Robert <no...@none.com> wrote:

>On Aug 8, 2022, zeb...@windstream.net wrote
>(in article<m9k2fhlt6bk27jhh1...@4ax.com>):

>If you believe all the Bible then why do you mock this and the words of
>Jesus?

Please show me what I am allegedly mocking?

>
>>
>>
>> -- King James
>> Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the
>> dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the
>> memory of them is forgotten.
>

>The dead knew nothing of this world as they died to it. Their souls at that
>time went to Hell or to the bosom of Abraham.

I don't know where to begin the corrections:

Abraham was in his grave (hell). Job wanted to go to "hell" (sheol) to
get relief from his pain and agony:

Job 14:13,

"Who will grant me this, that thou mayst protect me in hell [sheol],
and hide me till thy wrath pass, and appoint me a time when thou wilt
remember me?" (Douay) (brackets mine)

"O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, [sheol; hell] that thou
wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest
appoint me a set time, and remember me!" (KJV) (brackets mine)

The "soul" is NOT some immortal part of man. It can die:

Eze 18:4,

"Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the
soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." (KJV)

The first use of the word "soul" is with fish:

-- Darby's Bible
Genesis 1:20 And God said, Let the waters swarm with swarms of living
souls [nephesh], and let fowl fly above the earth in the expanse of
the heavens. [brackets mine]

-- King James
Genesis 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the
moving creature [nephesh] that hath life, and fowl that may fly above
the earth in the open firmament of heaven. [brackets mine]

-- Darby's Bible
Genesis 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth living souls
[nephesh] after their kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of
the earth, after their kind. And it was so. [brackets mine]

-- King James
Genesis 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living
creature [nephesh] after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and
beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. [brackets mine]

Notice how the word "soul" is used with the first human, Adam:

-- King James
Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a
living soul.

Observe that man wasn't 'given' a soul, but BECAME a soul when he
started to breath. Thus a soul is the whole person. (it also has other
meanings in the Bible)


>
>Tell us, if what you attempt to purport were true, then how did a dead
>prophet Samuel speak to King Saul? And why was he visible with his normal
>attire?

The dead prophet Samuel was in his grave (hell, sheol) awaiting a
resurrection. What King Saul heard was supposedly Samuel speaking
through the spirit medium. The clothing was only seen by the medium
before she did the seance. Saul completely broke God's law here:

Deut 18:10-12,

10. There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son
or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or
an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.
11. Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard,
or a necromancer.
12. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord:
and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out
from before thee. (KJV)

>
>>
>> -- King James
>> Psalms 146:3,4
>> 3. Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom
>> there is no help.
>> 4. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very
>> day his thoughts perish.
>

>Have you heard the thoughts of your Grandma since she passed?

No, of course not. She is 'waiting' for the resurrection. She expected
to be in Heaven or hellfire right now according to Catholicism. She
would be surprised where she is, if she was aware.

>
>>
>>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Do you not understand the Christ? His teachings state that the Believer is
>> > > > Born Again unto eternal life, does he lie?
>> > > >
>> > > > Know you not what the Lord created when he Created men?
>> > >
>> > > Jesus assisted God while God did His creations.
>> >
>> > Scripture? And while you are at it is not Jesus God?
>>
>> (Colossians 1:13-20) He rescued us from the authority of the darkness

>> and transferred us into the kingdom of his beloved Son, 14by means of

>> whom we have our release by ransom, the forgiveness of our sins. 15He
>> is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation;

>> 16because by means of him all other things were created in the

>> heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible,
>> whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities.
>> All other things have been created through him and for him. 17Also,
>> he is before all other things, and by means of him all other things

>> were made to exist, 18and he is the head of the body, the

>> congregation. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so
>> that he might become the one who is first in all things; 19because

>> God was pleased to have all fullness to dwell in him, 20and through

>> him to reconcile to himself all other things by making peace through
>> the blood he shed on the torture stake, whether the things on the
>> earth or the things in the heavens.
>>
>> Things were created THROUGH Jesus. We don't know exactly what that
>> means other than Jesus assisted God in some way.
>

>Incorrect.
>
>Col 1:13-20
>
>13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us
>into the kingdom of his dear Son:
>
>14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of
>sins:
>
>15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Thus the theme of those Scriptures are things being born, and Jesus
was the first.

>
>**************************
>
>V16 clearly states that the Lord created all things, and that by his word by
>him do all things continue on V17
>***********************************
>
>16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in
>earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or
>principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
>
>17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Actually a more accurate Scripture is:

-- Revised Standard
Colossians 1:16 for in him all things were created, in heaven and on
earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or
principalities or authorities--all things were created through him and
for him.

Your quote of vs 16 partially reads: "all things were created by him"
mine states: "all things were created through him "

by or through? It makes a big difference in the thought here. Here is
what Strong's Concordance says that Greek word there is: dia
And it means:

"Strong's Ref. # 1223

Romanized dia
Pronounced dee-ah'

a primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through (in very
wide applications, local, causal, or occasional): "

So "through" is the correct word.


>
>*************************
>
>V18 This clearly speaks of Jesus who alone is the head of the Body of Christ.
>He being the firstborn of the dead that he might be first in everything
>
>**********************************
>
>18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the
>firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
>
>****************************
>
>Why was Jesus the creator, and how? V19

Jesus was NEVER the Creator. Only Almighty God:

- King James
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.


"
>
>Because it pleased the Father to give him all the Power that his Father had.

Yes, Jesus would never have had any powers if God hadn't given it to
him

>
>*******************************
>
>19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
>
>20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile
>all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or
>things in heaven.

Cross. Strong's says:

"Strong's Ref. # 4716

Romanized stauros
Pronounced stow-ros'

from the base of GSN2476; a stake or post (as set upright), i.e.
(specifically) a pole or cross (as an instrument of capital
punishment); figuratively, exposure to death, i.e. self-denial; by
implication, the atonement of Christ: "

Notice stauros primarily means a stake or post in an upright position.

>
>And lastly he Jesus by his shed blood had to power to reconcile all things
>unto Himself.
>
>This clearly lays out the fact that Jesus did not assist his father, as God
>the Father put it all into his hands,

Yes, Jesus did all the things God did as per Creation. But it was God
who did them THROUGH Jesus.

>
>>
>>
>> Jesus is NOT Almighty God. Paul makes that clear. When Jesus was
>> resurrected and up in Heaven with God, Paul wrote:
>>
>> -- King James
>> 1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every
>> man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of
>> Christ is God.
>>
>> Yes, even in Heaven, the head of Jesus is God. Thus Jesus is always
>> inferior to Almighty God:
>

>The word of God does not dispute the fact that Jesus in NOT the Heavenly
>Father. Jesus himself mad that point very clear the morning of his
>resurrection.

But your Creed says Jesus is co-equal with God, thus contradicting the
apostle Paul.

"Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears
in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to
contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord
our God is one Lord' (Deut. 6:4). . . . The doctrine developed
gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. . . .
By the end of the 4th century . . . the doctrine of the Trinity took
substantially the form it has maintained ever since."-(1976),
Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 126.

>>
>>
>> -- King James
>> John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come
>> again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go
>> unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
>

>I have pointed that out to you many times.

It ties in real good with Paul's statement at 1 Cor 11:3.

>When are you going to answer the questions asked of you rather than ignoring
>them and charging the subject?

Alright, repeat the questions and remind to answer them and not just
change the subject.

[zeb...@windstream.net]

On Tue, 09 Aug 2022 13:28:07 -0700, Robert <no...@none.com> wrote:

>On Aug 9, 2022, zeb...@windstream.net wrote
>(in article<3ac4fh1qjrjvhst3m...@4ax.com>):

>I did not say you were allegedly mocking, I said that you were mocking.
>"Super bosom" and what followed.

I said allegedly. He would have to have a super bosom in order to
accommodate all those people. And like I said before, what's he doing
alive, when the resurrection hasn't happened yet. (Ec 9:5; Ps 146:3,4)

>Wrong, in everything you stated, the soul is the part of the being that
>contains out thoughts, personalities and the control over the body,

The same with the fish? (Gen 1:20)

Just reread Gen 2:7. When Adam started to breath, he "became" a soul.

Then what does this one mean:

-- King James
Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ,
that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see
corruption.
>
>The soul that sinners it shall die. Which began with Adam and continues on to
>the last man standing. If a man is not alive unto God, because of sin, he is
>dead to him, just as you are now.
>
>You cannot know the things of God when you are dead to Him.

Millions do not agree with your opinion.

>>
>> >
>> > Tell us, if what you attempt to purport were true, then how did a dead
>> > prophet Samuel speak to King Saul? And why was he visible with his normal
>> > attire?
>>
>> The dead prophet Samuel was in his grave (hell, sheol) awaiting a
>> resurrection. What King Saul heard was supposedly Samuel speaking
>> through the spirit medium. The clothing was only seen by the medium
>> before she did the seance. Saul completely broke God's law here:
>

>So what, the event still happed, and Samuel was in the bosom of Abraham,
>Paradise. You cannot deny the fact that Samuel still spoke

I most certainly can deny it. Satan is making a fool out of you and
others. Satan PRETENDED to be Samuel by talking through the medium

>>
>>
>> Deut 18:10-12,
>>
>> 10. There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son
>> or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or
>> an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.
>> 11. Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard,
>> or a necromancer.
>> 12. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord:
>> and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out
>> from before thee. (KJV)


>>
>> >
>> > >
>> > > -- King James
>> > > Psalms 146:3,4
>> > > 3. Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom
>> > > there is no help.
>> > > 4. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very
>> > > day his thoughts perish.
>> >
>> > Have you heard the thoughts of your Grandma since she passed?
>>
>> No, of course not. She is 'waiting' for the resurrection. She expected
>> to be in Heaven or hellfire right now according to Catholicism. She
>> would be surprised where she is, if she was aware.
>

>Every dead person knows where they are, heaven or hell.

So where did Abraham and King David and Moses go right when they died?

>Born again

God was born again?

Jesus committed no sins, why would he be born again?

>>
>>
>> >
>> > **************************
>> >
>> > V16 clearly states that the Lord created all things, and that by his word by
>> > him do all things continue on V17
>> > ***********************************
>> >
>> > 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in
>> > earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or
>> > principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
>> >
>> > 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
>>
>> Actually a more accurate Scripture is:
>

>"By Him" is dia autou, "through His intermediate agency." "For Him" is eis
>auton, "unto Him." Vincent says; "All things came to pass within the sphere
>of His personality and as dependent upon it . . . All things, as they had
>their beginning in Him, tend to Him as their consummation, to depend on and
>serve Him. . . . The false teachers maintained that the universe proceeded
>from God indirectly, through a succession of emanations. Christ, at best, was
>only one of these. As such, the universe could not find its consummation in
>Him." Lightfoot says; "As all creation passed out from Him, so does it all
>converge again towards Him." The first use of the word "created" in this
>verse is aorist, and the second, perfect in tense, the latter showing the
>abiding result.
>
>Translation: Because in Him were created the all things in the heavens and
>upon the earth, the visible things and the invisible ones, whether they are
>thrones or lordships or principalities or authorities. The all things through
>Him as intermediate agent and with a view to Him stand created.

>>
>>
>> -- Revised Standard
>> Colossians 1:16 for in him all things were created, in heaven and on
>> earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or
>> principalities or authorities--all things were created through him and
>> for him.
>>
>> Your quote of vs 16 partially reads: "all things were created by him"
>> mine states: "all things were created through him "
>>
>> by or through? It makes a big difference in the thought here. Here is
>> what Strong's Concordance says that Greek word there is: dia
>> And it means:
>>
>> "Strong's Ref. # 1223
>>
>> Romanized dia
>> Pronounced dee-ah'
>>
>> a primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through (in very
>> wide applications, local, causal, or occasional): "
>>
>> So "through" is the correct word.
>

>Wrong, see what I post just above.

I already read it. I still go by dia, "through" Jesus

>>
>>
>> >
>> > *************************
>> >
>> > V18 This clearly speaks of Jesus who alone is the head of the Body of
>> > Christ.
>> > He being the firstborn of the dead that he might be first in everything
>> >
>> > **********************************
>> >
>> > 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the
>> > firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
>> >
>> > ****************************
>> >
>> > Why was Jesus the creator, and how? V19
>>
>> Jesus was NEVER the Creator. Only Almighty God:
>>
>> - King James
>> Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
>>
>> "
>> >
>> > Because it pleased the Father to give him all the Power that his Father had.
>>
>> Yes, Jesus would never have had any powers if God hadn't given it to
>> him
>

>And he was given it in order to create this world and all that is within it,

God did the creating, but let His Son assist Him in some way.
>
>I can quote you a bunch of scripture showing that Jesus was the creator God
>you have already seen some, yet you would seek to deny them say that
>scripture is wrong. While it is you that is wrong, showing that you do not
>believe the whole bible as written.

Your logic is all false because you make assumptions about me that are
lies. I do not deny Scripture. But do some interpretation of
Scripture.

>>
>>
>> >
>> > *******************************
>> >
>> > 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
>> >
>> > 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to
>> > reconcile
>> > all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or
>> > things in heaven.
>>
>> Cross. Strong's says:
>>
>> "Strong's Ref. # 4716
>>
>> Romanized stauros
>> Pronounced stow-ros'
>>
>> from the base of GSN2476; a stake or post (as set upright), i.e.
>> (specifically) a pole or cross (as an instrument of capital
>> punishment); figuratively, exposure to death, i.e. self-denial; by
>> implication, the atonement of Christ: "
>>
>> Notice stauros primarily means a stake or post in an upright position.
>

>It also means Cross, which you attempt to disregard, but the point of it was
>the Blood that was spilt for the remission of sins, the blood which you
>refuse.

You logic is continually wrong, based on lies said about me.

>>
>>
>> >
>> > And lastly he Jesus by his shed blood had to power to reconcile all things
>> > unto Himself.
>> >
>> > This clearly lays out the fact that Jesus did not assist his father, as God
>> > the Father put it all into his hands,
>>
>> Yes, Jesus did all the things God did as per Creation. But it was God
>> who did them THROUGH Jesus.
>

>Nope which is born out through the scriptures I presented above.

Then you need to get a more accurate Bible. Which Bible translation do
you use the most?

>>
>>
>> >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Jesus is NOT Almighty God. Paul makes that clear. When Jesus was
>> > > resurrected and up in Heaven with God, Paul wrote:
>> > >
>> > > -- King James
>> > > 1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every
>> > > man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of
>> > > Christ is God.
>> > >
>> > > Yes, even in Heaven, the head of Jesus is God. Thus Jesus is always
>> > > inferior to Almighty God:
>> >
>> > The word of God does not dispute the fact that Jesus in NOT the Heavenly
>> > Father. Jesus himself mad that point very clear the morning of his
>> > resurrection.
>>
>> But your Creed says Jesus is co-equal with God, thus contradicting the
>> apostle Paul.
>

>What Creed?

Athanasian Creed

>Why do you feel free to lie about it? Setting up a straw man? I
>follow no creed.

good for uou'

>>
>>
>> "Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears
>> in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to
>> contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord
>> our God is one Lord' (Deut. 6:4). . . . The doctrine developed
>> gradually over several centuries and through many controversies. . . .
>> By the end of the 4th century . . . the doctrine of the Trinity took
>> substantially the form it has maintained ever since."-(1976),
>> Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 126.
>

>Why bring up that pitiful old record which has nothing to do with me?

The Bible is a lot older. Do you have trouble with it?
>
>Since you do not honor the person you supposedly are communicating with I am
>ending this conversation here, people are meaningless to you, your concerns
>for them are non existent and therefor are just a sounding board for you
>agenda.
>
>You sir are a total fraud.
>
You opinion is noted, but is not based on a solid foundation. Maybe
someday you will come to Bible truth.

Sincerely James
Worrying a lot?

[zeb...@windstream.net]

On Thu, 11 Aug 2022 08:17:58 -0700, Robert <no...@none.com> wrote:

>On Aug 11, 2022, zeb...@windstream.net wrote
>(in article<4ep9fhdi60e4cv228...@4ax.com>):

>You absolutely did not. Neither you or I used that word at the beginning, you
>only sought to use that word when you were caught mocking

Your opinion is still wrong. I do not mock anyone. Do you take
Abraham's bosom to be literal? As I said below, and what is he doing
alive before the resurrection has occurred? (Acts 24:15)

>
>> And like I said before, what's he doing
>> alive, when the resurrection hasn't happened yet. (Ec 9:5; Ps 146:3,4)
>

>As I pointed out to you Samuel spoke from the Grave to King Saul.

But Acts 24:15 hasn't happened yet. Can a witch override God's word?
>
>When a person dies their spirit dwells on,

When a person dies, his "spirit" (life force--Heb: ruach) goes back to
God. Ec 12:7,

7 Then the dust returns to the earth, just as it was, and the spirit
returns to the true God who gave it.

The Hebrew word for spirit is "ruach" and the Greek word "pneuma".
Both words have to do with a 'force in motion'.

Notice the use of the Hebrew word "spirit" (ruach) at Ps 146:4,

"His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; In that day his
thoughts do perish."

The "spirit" here is his life force.


>but they are no longer part of
>this world, in those days to the bottomless pit or for the redeemed to
>Paradise. After the resurrection of the Messiah the redeemed ones go to
>Heaven.

What do they do in Heaven?

And who are these then?

-- King James
Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

>
>Believers know that after death there is no longer a chance of earning
>rewards as their time on earth is done.

Not according to the Bible: Ps 37:29,

JUB
The righteous shall inherit the earth and live upon it for ever.

>“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into
>his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.” (Gen 2:7)

>
>>
>>
>> Then what does this one mean:
>>
>> -- King James
>> Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ,
>> that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see
>> corruption.
>

>Read it in the context it was given to us, it tells us why.

"his soul" (his whole body-Ge 2:7) "left in hell" (hades, left in the
grave)

>
>>
>> >
>> > The soul that sinners it shall die. Which began with Adam and continues on
>> > to
>> > the last man standing. If a man is not alive unto God, because of sin, he is
>> > dead to him, just as you are now.
>> >
>> > You cannot know the things of God when you are dead to Him.
>>
>> Millions do not agree with your opinion.
>

>“Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper
>of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.” (Joh 9:31)

Yes, thus we should read and follow God's word, the Holy Bible. Those
that willingly don't, will experience the wrath of God.
>
>“All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son,
>but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to
>whomsoever the Son will reveal him.” (Mat 11:27)
>
>This has to do with the word of God, not my opinion,

Hopefully you agree with it then.
>
>You are correct in that millions disagree with this, they are all deceived
>and bound for hell which is why the Gospel must be preached and NOT the False
>Gospel that the JW's teach.

Well let' see. The Kingdom message the JW's preach COMES RIGHT OUT OF
THE BIBLE. Thus if you are declaring it a false teaching, you are
declaring the Bible a false book. Daniel 2:44 says,

-- King James
Daniel 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven
set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom
shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and
consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Yes, God's Kingdom (government) will soon destroy all of man's
governments and then rule the world. Thus you must see a preaching
work throughout the whole earth in the last days:

-- King James
Matthew 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all
the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Sincerely James
Can you be God's friend?

[tesla sTinker]

On 8/12/2022 9:42 AM, zeb...@windstream.net scribbled:

you have it wrong, the kjv is a false Bible. invalid. And yes,
I can say so, Because i read the valid one, the only one. I am just
sorry, that I cannot read the other languages or I would read the hebrew
and greek instead of the english. But in any case, the kjv was
falsified by the false kings and false popes of england. That is why
the pope said it was a false Bible and very invalid. Wikipedia will
tell you where the money came from to print it up. Poor slaves. The
King of England, and all because, he wanted to marry a whore. Instead
of staying married to a catholic named Cathrine of Argonne. So they
made up their own church so to disobey Christ. And make a divorce valid.
in their eyes.... And a Bible that would tell you, it is just fine to do
so. Horse manure, that is what the book that you read is.
End of story. And by the way, the real Bible does not say then shall
come the end. It is speaking about the marriage and the consumation
of people to God's true Church. which of course, is not happening yet,
but it still may.... As long as they throw away the KJV that is.

[zeb...@windstream.net]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "6So when they had assembled, they asked him: “Lord, are

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?†7He said to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> them:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> “It

[zeb...@windstream.net]

I grant you that the KJV is one of the least good translations. If you
have the KJV that has the Preface in it, you would see how they
praise, and praise King James. The NKJ is a bit better, but still
reeks of many of the same weaknesses.

Sincerely James
FREE Bible study course
At www.jw.org or jw.org