$7 lies
David Mathews
I received an advertisement in the mail on Friday (Sept. 11) from The
Prophecy Club and God's News Behind the News. The advertisement concerned a
speech which Henry Gruver is going to give on Saturday (the 12th) at the
Quality Hotel, which I could attend if I paid $7. The message of his talk:
Title: "I Saw Submarines Attack America."
Subject: "On December 14, 1986, while walking and praying over a city, God
showed him a vision of the future of America. 'All of the sudden I was up
above the earth looking down upon it like a globe,' he said. 'I saw all
kinds of ships and airplanes coming from above Norway, out of this inlet.
They covered the Atlantic between the U.S. and Europe. I began to see
submarines emerging from under the surface. They looked as if they were
sitting on American beaches. I saw missiles coming out of them! They hit
the eastern and western coastal cities of the U.S.!'
I cried out and said, 'O God! O God! When will this be, and what shall be
the sign of its coming?'
I heard an audible voice speak to me and say, 'When Russia opens her doors
and lets the masses go. The free world will occupy themselves with
transporting, housing, feeding, and caring for the masses, and will let down
their weapons and cry peace and safety. Then sudden destruction will come.
Then is when it will come.'"
This message is offensive to me: It is a false prophecy meant to create fear
and worry in gullible people. Henry Gruver is either lying about his vision
or he is deluding himself. I pity all the people who sacrifice seven
dollars to hear false prophecies, and encourage the reader to avoid false
prophets of doom.
Thanks,
David Mathews
http://www.geocities.com/athens/agora/3958
pdunfee
David Mathews wrote in message ...
David Mathews
My objection to Henry Gruver's message is motivated by:
1. His manifestly false prediction: "I began to see submarines emerging from
under the surface" ... "they looked as if they were sitting on American
beaches".
2. Outdated cold war rationality: i.e., Soviet attack on America.
3. Irrational cause: Soviet refugees demanding so much of the world's
resources that the world decides to disarm and proclaim peace, without
demanding similar action of the Soviets.
4. Nonexistent situation: the United States and Western powers are not
disarmed.
5. Nonexistent situation #2: No masses of Soviet refugees.
6. Vagueness of time: i.e., he essentially states that God told him that "it
will happen when it happens."
I object to the $7 because it is a terrible waste of money for a false
prophecy.
Thanks,
David Mathews
Riprock
>
> Hello pdunfee,
>
> My objection to Henry Gruver's message is motivated by:
>
> 1. His manifestly false prediction: "I began to see submarines emerging from
> under the surface" ... "they looked as if they were sitting on American
> beaches".
How do you know it's false? Did the Holy Ghost show it to be
false?
> 2. Outdated cold war rationality: i.e., Soviet attack on America.
If you remember how quickly the tide turned in the "October
Suprise" i don't think Russia -vs- the US is so
unreasonable.
> 3. Irrational cause: Soviet refugees demanding so much of the world's
> resources that the world decides to disarm and proclaim peace, without
> demanding similar action of the Soviets.
Your message did not say that, it said "...and will let down
their weapons and cry peace and safety." To me that says
that we will use all our resources to help those refugees.
In other words, our resources will be "inattentive" while
spending their time helping refugees.
> 4. Nonexistent situation: the United States and Western powers are not
> disarmed.
See previous
> 5. Nonexistent situation #2: No masses of Soviet refugees.
Not yet, maybe not ever, I'm just arguing logic here.
> 6. Vagueness of time: i.e., he essentially states that God told him that "it
> will happen when it happens."
Hmmm, didn't Jesus say "soon" alot? Only the Father know the
times and the seasons.
> I object to the $7 because it is a terrible waste of money for a false
> prophecy.
>
> Thanks,
>
> David Mathews
I'm not trying to be beligerent, although I may be (!), but
none of your arguments are logical. Granted, I am like you
in that when I hear someone saying God gave them a vision, I
am extremely wary. I was just looking at your logic. If the
Holy Ghost showed you, in the spirit, that this guy's vision
was not from God then I would CERTAINLY go with it!
Have you prayed that God would grant you wisdom in this, in
that He would reveal to you whether this man' visions were
from Him?
In Christ,
Jim
--
Love Unconditionally, Live Sacrificially.
David Mathews
God has given me the knowledge and insight which is common to all humans,
and the responsibility to examine and test the truth of teachings,
revelations and opinions.
While any one of us may imagine some terrible event happening in the future,
those who claim that their imagination is a revelation of God and therefore
worthy of attention are deceiving people and creating needless fears. Henry
Gruver is profiting from his message of doom and danger and exploiting the
trusts of his listeners.
There is little cause to fear a full-scale nuclear war with the Soviets,
because the Soviet Union no longer exist. There is no reason to fear a
full-scale nuclear war with the Russians, because they would not profit from
a nuclear war, and their military is not capable presently of successfully
engaging in war. There is no cause for fear whatsoever.
Have no fear of a false prophet (Dueteronomy 18:20-22).
Riprock
>
> Hello Jim,
>
> God has given me the knowledge and insight which is common to all humans,
> and the responsibility to examine and test the truth of teachings,
> revelations and opinions.
Why are this guy's "teachings" untruthful? I'm not saying
they aren't, I'd just like to know why the Spirit has led
you to believe that they are?
> While any one of us may imagine some terrible event happening in the future,
> those who claim that their imagination is a revelation of God and therefore
> worthy of attention are deceiving people and creating needless fears.
Hmmm, What about all the old testament prophets? They all
imagined some terrible events happening in the future and
claimed that their revelations were of God and therefore
worthy of the peoples' attention.
John's revelation was the same...terrible things, prophet of
God, etc and He wrote AFTER Christ's sacrifice.
> Henry
> Gruver is profiting from his message of doom and danger and exploiting the
> trusts of his listeners.
If one is a prophet of God, one is 100% correct. If this
Gruver guy will not give you all his info for free, then he
is not a prophet of God. Accepting donations is ok, but if
he will not provide anyone who asks for all the info he has
for free, then he is not a prophet of God.
> There is little cause to fear a full-scale nuclear war with the Soviets,
> because the Soviet Union no longer exist.
Obviously.
> There is no reason to fear a
> full-scale nuclear war with the Russians, because they would not profit > from a nuclear war,
No one profits from a nuclear war. There have been men that
think that they can profit from nuclear war tho. There are
leaders in the world who believe this. I'm not saying it
makes sense but look at the way some of the world's past
leaders thought and tell me if THEY made sense. Just look at
Saddam Hussein! He believed no one would do anything when he
invaded Quwait... he believed there would be too much arab
devisiveness for the US to stop him.
> and their military is not capable presently of successfully
> engaging in war.
That depends upon your meaning of "successfully". They have
the ability to launch all their missles in a very short
period (10 minutes or so), after that it's all automatic.
The Russians are not capable of successfully engaging in a
conventional war. They are able to engage in a nuclear
exchange.
> There is no cause for fear whatsoever.
No, there isn't... if you've confessed your sins to God,
asked His forgiveness, repented of your sins, and accepted
Christ as your Lord and Personal Saviour. Then there's
absolutely NOTHING to worry about!!!
Praise God for His grace, that we can give our lives to
Christ and accept the payment He gave for our sins!
Dore Williamson
has merit. First of all , America is the fourth beast of Daniel, the evil
one who controls and tramples down the whole world. It is the seat of the
beast of revelation, why shouldn't it be destroyed? It is my guess that you
are an American who bows to this beast, and can't fathom that whom you serve
should be destroyed, but wake up, open your eyes to what is truly evil and
refuse to be a partaker of it, maybe you'll survive it's destruction. After
all, Christ will be revealed when there are many dead bodies. Accept God's
plan and stop trying to fight for your own theology, rather than the truth,
for it is truly futile..
David Mathews wrote in message ...
>Hello,
>
>I received an advertisement in the mail on Friday (Sept. 11) from The
>Prophecy Club and God's News Behind the News. The advertisement concerned
a
>speech which Henry Gruver is going to give on Saturday (the 12th) at the
>Quality Hotel, which I could attend if I paid $7. The message of his talk:
>
>Title: "I Saw Submarines Attack America."
>
>Subject: "On December 14, 1986, while walking and praying over a city, God
>showed him a vision of the future of America. 'All of the sudden I was up
>above the earth looking down upon it like a globe,' he said. 'I saw all
>kinds of ships and airplanes coming from above Norway, out of this inlet.
>They covered the Atlantic between the U.S. and Europe. I began to see
>submarines emerging from under the surface. They looked as if they were
>sitting on American beaches. I saw missiles coming out of them! They hit
>the eastern and western coastal cities of the U.S.!'
>I cried out and said, 'O God! O God! When will this be, and what shall be
>the sign of its coming?'
>I heard an audible voice speak to me and say, 'When Russia opens her doors
>and lets the masses go. The free world will occupy themselves with
>transporting, housing, feeding, and caring for the masses, and will let
down
>their weapons and cry peace and safety. Then sudden destruction will come.
>Then is when it will come.'"
>
>This message is offensive to me: It is a false prophecy meant to create
fear
>and worry in gullible people. Henry Gruver is either lying about his
vision
>or he is deluding himself. I pity all the people who sacrifice seven
>dollars to hear false prophecies, and encourage the reader to avoid false
>prophets of doom.
>
DSpicer847
>
>I agree that no money should be paid for prophecy, but the prophecy itself
>has merit. First of all , America is the fourth beast of Daniel, the evil
>one who controls and tramples down the whole world.
Thats a new one on me!!!! When are we going to start trampling? This fourth
beast is not America. It must come from a part of the old Greek empire. Check
out Daniel 11 at my website!!!
It is the seat of the
>beast of revelation, why shouldn't it be destroyed? It is my guess that you
>are an American who bows to this beast, and can't fathom that whom you serve
>should be destroyed, but wake up, open your eyes to what is truly evil and
>refuse to be a partaker of it, maybe you'll survive it's destruction. After
>all, Christ will be revealed when there are many dead bodies. Accept God's
>plan and stop trying to fight for your own theology, rather than the truth,
>for it is truly futile..
>
>
<IXOYE><
The Prophesy Web
http://members.aol.com/dspicer847/index.html
z...@rocketmail.com
David,
I heard Henry Gruver speak a while back and felt I had to clear a few things
up. I paid the $7, by the way, to a group of locals in New Orleans who had
rented out the hotel conference room. I don't believe they profited much, if
any, nor was such their intent. Henry Gruver was their guest speaker that
month. The group regulary listened to The Prophecy Club radio broadcasts.
In article <vXTK1.271$tM4.1...@newse2.tampabay.rr.com>,
"David Mathews" <dmat...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> Hello Jim,
>
> God has given me the knowledge and insight which is common to all humans,
> and the responsibility to examine and test the truth of teachings,
> revelations and opinions.
Yes, we must test the spirits . . by searching the scriptures. And regarding
the teachings of man, we must first hear them [Proverbs 18:13].
>
> While any one of us may imagine some terrible event happening in the future,
> those who claim that their imagination is a revelation of God and therefore
> worthy of attention are deceiving people and creating needless fears. Henry
> Gruver is profiting from his message of doom and danger and exploiting the
> trusts of his listeners.
No, I am happy to report that Henry Gruver does not profit one dime from his
messages. Nor does he require his hosts to guarantee his travel expenses.
His tapes are FREE for the asking. I found him to be a most humble man.
Henry Gruver
601 Walker
Woodbine, IA 51579
> There is little cause to fear a full-scale nuclear war with the Soviets,
> because the Soviet Union no longer exist. There is no reason to fear a
> full-scale nuclear war with the Russians, because they would not profit from
> a nuclear war, and their military is not capable presently of successfully
> engaging in war. There is no cause for fear whatsoever.
I urge you to get Henry Gruver's two-tape set on The Russian Invasion of
America { it's free!! }. There is much more to the story than a mere vision
which we know are not always given by God. SAC commanders in Omaha were very
interested in the vision and confirmed the high plausibility of what would at
first seem to be a rather far-fetched scenario. From the vision, Gruver
described a very high-ranking Russian General who SAC suggested to be be
Aleksander Lebed, whom Gruver positively identified from photos. The vision
was in 1986, mind you, when Lebed was relatively unknown.
The point here is that not only our highly respected Strategic Air Command,
but more specifically, members of the elite Looking Glass Fleet, interviewed
Henry Gruver at length and were amazed with the detailed accuracy of the
vision. I think everyone reading this should take heed as well.
Also, on the feasibility of Russia planning to strike the USA, you might see
Jeff Nyquist's site at: http://www.northcoast.com/~jnyquist/
> Have no fear of a false prophet (Dueteronomy 18:20-22).
> Thanks,
>
> David Mathews
Henry Gruver makes neither claim nor pretense about being a prophet. I think
you should easily discern his calm spirit by hearing the tapes or perchance
speaking to him by phone.
En agape,
Zach Anderson [ z...@rocketmail.com ]
http://www.geocities.com/area51/vault/1157/
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prophet_jon
Of course, I don't believe that educated beleivers have EVER been fooled by the
"fall and collapse" of the USSR, since this is where the final battle between God
and Satan takes place.
prophet_jon