1260-1290-1335 days

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Siirry ensimmäiseen lukemattomaan viestiin

John Abrams

lukematon,
11.7.2001 klo 22.11.4311.7.2001
vastaanottaja
1260 - 1290 - 1335 days
I made a quick overview,(see scriptures below). Sacrifice stopped on a
given day - in the midst of the week- for 1290 days.
75 days later the witnesses start to prophecy- for 1260 days and on the
same day the court is trampled underfoot. 1215 days later the
abomination is set up. 45 days after that is Christ's coming to rule and
the resurrection, on the 1335th day.
end
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Dan 12:11-12 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken
away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a
thousand two hundred and ninety days (1,290 days).Blessed is he that
waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty
days (1,335 days).
Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters
of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto
heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a
time, times, and an half (1,260 days) and when he shall have
accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things
shall be finished.
Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and
shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times
and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times
and the dividing of time ( 1,260 days) .
Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week
(1,260 days): and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice
and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he
shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined
shall be poured upon the desolate.
Rev.11: 1-3:1And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the
angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar,
and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it
not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they
tread under foot forty and two months (1,260 days). 3 And I will give
power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two
hundred and threescore days (1,260 days) clothed in sackcloth.

http://www.thehungersite.com

Misty, of the mist

lukematon,
12.7.2001 klo 3.59.2612.7.2001
vastaanottaja
OH yes it is very quick and it is most inaccurate and run
together. Who can make any sense of that pile of days all
on top of one another?

John Abrams wrote:

> 1260 - 1290 - 1335 days
> I made a quick overview,(see scriptures below). Sacrifice stopped on a
> given day - in the midst of the week- for 1290 days.

The sacrifice stopped, was prophesied in the 70 weeks of
year in
Daniel 9 and that was the 490 year prophecy where He was
cut off in the middle of the last week of years. Not in
the middle of a week as a seven day week.


> 75 days later the witnesses start to prophecy- for 1260 days and on the
> same day the court is trampled underfoot. 1215 days later the
> abomination is set up. 45 days after that is Christ's coming to rule and
> the resurrection, on the 1335th day.

What was your teacher drinking when he taught you that?

It is so wrong and unbiblical.
Don't you know about the keys to prophecy; As a day for a
year, or a year for a day in prophecy?

Look at Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:4-6 and try to understand
from there How God made Prophecy and How He coded it for
those in the know.

Misty,

John Abrams

lukematon,
12.7.2001 klo 16.30.4612.7.2001
vastaanottaja
RE:
What was your teacher drinking when he taught you that?
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Bet you can't explain the 1260/1290/1335 days using years.
If you can't , then you have to consider that you may be wrong.
I'll be waitingggggggggggggggggggg for you to try....................
end
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


Re: 1260-1290-1335 days

Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Thu, Jul 12, 2001, 7:59am (EDT+4) From:
yardh...@home.com (Misty, of the mist)

http://www.thehungersite.com

John Abrams

lukematon,
12.7.2001 klo 16.27.2312.7.2001
vastaanottaja
Re:
There are two chains of thought on this, one group believes the days are
days.
The other group believes the days are years.
Since we are in different groups we will never agree.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
1260-1290-1335 days

Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Thu, Jul 12, 2001, 7:59am (EDT+4) From:
yardh...@home.com (Misty, of the mist)

http://www.thehungersite.com

James R. Calvert

lukematon,
12.7.2001 klo 16.44.5612.7.2001
vastaanottaja

John Abrams wrote:

> 1260 - 1290 - 1335 days
> I made a quick overview,(see scriptures below). Sacrifice stopped on a
> given day - in the midst of the week- for 1290 days.
> 75 days later the witnesses start to prophecy- for 1260 days and on the
> same day the court is trampled underfoot. 1215 days later the
> abomination is set up. 45 days after that is Christ's coming to rule and
> the resurrection, on the 1335th day.
> end
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


This is my understanding of the 3 time periods of Dan. 12:

1335 days prior to Christ's coming (Dan. 12:12), a blessing is
pronounced on those who wait until this point in time; they are probably
taken to "the wilderness" during the Great Tribulation (Rev. 12:14).

45 days elapse

1290 days prior to Christ's coming (Dan. 12:11), the Beast's armies
surround Jerusalem (Luke 21:20); the abomination of desolation, the
Antichrist, enters the rebuilt Temple and stops the sacrifices (Matt.
24:15; Dan. 12:11).

30 days elapse

1260 days prior to Christ's coming (Dan. 12:7), the Great Tribulation
starts and continues for 3 1/2 years (Dan. 12:7); Jerusalem is tread
under foot by the Gentiles, and the Jews are led away captive into all
nations (Rev. 11:2; Luke 21:24). The two witnesses prophesy during this
last 3 1/2 years (Rev. 11:3).


> Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and
> shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times
> and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times
> and the dividing of time ( 1,260 days).


Daniel 7:25 is referring to papal misrule during the 1260 years of the
church-historic period. This church-historic period has been
interpreted variously as: (1)
529/533-1789/1793 [Elliott], (2) 554-1814 [Worldwide Church of God], (3)
606-1866 [Luther], and (4) 754-2014 [Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown, Com.
on Dan. 7:25].

Each interpretation of the church-historic period is based on different
factors. Elliott set the beginning of the 1260 years with Justinian's
edict acknowledging Pope John II to be the head of the Church. The
Worldwide Church of God apparently set the beginning with the
destruction of the Vandals, Heruli, and Ostrogoths, after Justinian's
recognition of papal supremacy. With Luther, it was "when Phocas
confirmed Justinian's grant" (JFB, Com.). Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown
say that the period most likely began "[in 754] when the temporal
dominion of the popes begun by Pepin's grant of the exarchate of
Ravenna, the kingdom of
the Lombards, and the state of Rome to [pope] Stephen II" (Com., Dan.
9:25).

Of these various interpretations, 554-1814 seems to be the most
reasonable. The last of the Germanic peoples who had brought the
western half of the Roman Empire to the point of extinction were not
"plucked up by the roots" (Dan. 7:8) until 554. By 554, Justinian had
won back much of the west.

> Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week
> (1,260 days): and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice
> and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he
> shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined
> shall be poured upon the desolate.

Daniel 9:27a refers to the work of the Christ: after a ministry of three
and one half years, He caused the sacrifice and the oblation to cease
"by offer[ing] one sacrifice for sins for ever" (Heb. 10:12). Daniel
9:27b refers to the work of the Antichrist: at the beginning of the last
three and one half years, the Antichrist will enter the rebuilt temple
of the Jews, causing the daily sacrifice to "be taken away" (Dan.
12:11).

> Rev.11: 1-3:1And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the
> angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar,
> and them that worship therein.
> 2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it
> not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they
> tread under foot forty and two months (1,260 days). 3 And I will give
> power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two
> hundred and threescore days (1,260 days) clothed in sackcloth.

The 1260 days of the church-historic period "are recapitulated on a
shorter scale analogically during the antichrist's short reign. They
are equivalent to three and a half years" (J.F.B., Com., Rev. 12:6).
The year-day and the day-day theories are both true: "The 1260 years of
papal misrule in the name of Christ may be represented by three and a
half years of open Antichristianity and persecution [just] before the
millennium" (J.F.B., Com., Dan. 7:25).

Besq

lukematon,
12.7.2001 klo 17.57.4812.7.2001
vastaanottaja
James R. Calvert wrote:

> John Abrams wrote:
>
> > 1260 - 1290 - 1335 days
> > I made a quick overview,(see scriptures below). Sacrifice stopped on a
> > given day - in the midst of the week- for 1290 days.
> > 75 days later the witnesses start to prophecy- for 1260 days and on the
> > same day the court is trampled underfoot. 1215 days later the
> > abomination is set up. 45 days after that is Christ's coming to rule and
> > the resurrection, on the 1335th day.
> > end
> > oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
>
> This is my understanding of the 3 time periods of Dan. 12:
>
> 1335 days prior to Christ's coming (Dan. 12:12), a blessing is
> pronounced on those who wait until this point in time; they are probably
> taken to "the wilderness" during the Great Tribulation (Rev. 12:14).
>
> 45 days elapse
>
> 1290 days prior to Christ's coming (Dan. 12:11), the Beast's armies
> surround Jerusalem (Luke 21:20); the abomination of desolation, the
> Antichrist, enters the rebuilt Temple and stops the sacrifices (Matt.
> 24:15; Dan. 12:11).
>
> 30 days elapse

30 days for the holy people to escape.

Misty, of the mist.

lukematon,
13.7.2001 klo 4.44.5413.7.2001
vastaanottaja
well I must agree with you there, but you are grouping all
of the prophesies of days all into one prophecy and that is
for sure not the way to go.
the 1260 day prophecy one prophecy, and the 2300 day P. is
a different one while the 1335 is yet a different one.
The seventy weeks of years also is by itself but, some of
these may be inside the realms of the other longer ones.
It is a matter of starting dates and ending dates.
Would you like to make a timeline with me to see how this
happens?

During my study of prophecy the main thing is to have a
starting date and an ending date.
However there is one prophecy that has neither a starting
date nor and ending date. a.e. the Rapture. This one is so
special it has to be an on - - - well lets say if you want
to get into it we can talk.

Misty,

John Abrams wrote:

> Re:
> There are two chains of thought on this, one group believes the days are
> days.
> The other group believes the days are years.
> Since we are in different groups we will never agree.
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> 1260-1290-1335 days
>
> Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Thu, Jul 12, 2001, 7:59am (EDT+4) From:
> yardh...@home.com (Misty, of the mist)
> OH yes it is very quick and it is most inaccurate and run together. Who
> can make any sense of that pile of days all on top of one another?
> John Abrams wrote:
> 1260 - 1290 - 1335 days
> I made a quick overview,(see scriptures below). Sacrifice stopped on a
> given day - in the midst of the week- for 1290 days.

> The sacrifice stopped, was prophesied in the 70 weeks of year in
> Daniel 9 and that was the 490 year prophecy where He was cut off in the
> middle of the last week of years. Not in the middle of a week as a seven
> day week.

you have put 2 prophesies together in the above paragraph.
How did you come to the conclusion that the 1290 days was
involved with the 70 weeks of years?

> 75 days later the witnesses start to prophecy- for 1260 days and on the
> same day the court is trampled underfoot. 1215 days later the
> abomination is set up. 45 days after that is Christ's coming to rule and
> the resurrection, on the 1335th day.

where is the 1215 days prophecy???


> What was your teacher drinking when he taught you that?
> It is so wrong and unbiblical.
> Don't you know about the keys to prophecy; As a day for a year, or a
> year for a day in prophecy?
> Look at Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:4-6 and try to understand from there
> How God made Prophecy and How He coded it for those in the know.
> Misty,
> end
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Dan 12:11-12 And from
> the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the
> abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two
> hundred and ninety days (1,290 days).Blessed is he that waiteth, and
> cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days (1,335
> days).

What date did you put on the day the daily sacrifice was
taken away?


> Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters
> of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto
> heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a
> time, times, and an half (1,260 days) and when he shall have
> accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things
> shall be finished.

How did you get 1260 from the "time, times, and a half time.
prophecy?


> Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and
> shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times
> and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times
> and the dividing of time ( 1,260 days) .

Same question as above, How?


> Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week
> (1,260 days): and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice
> and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he
> shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined
> shall be poured upon the desolate.

Daniel 9:27
27
He will confirm a covenant with many for one `seven.'[1]
In the middle of the `seven'[2] he will put an end to
sacrifice and offering. And on a wing [of the temple]
he will set up an abomination that causes desolation,
until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.[3]
"[4]
(foot notes)
[27] Or `week'
[27] Or `week'
[27] Or it
[27] Or And one who causes desolation will
come upon the pinnacle of the abominable [temple],
until the end that is decreed is poured out on
the desolated [city]

I do not see any,"1260" days in the bible passage you are
trying to quote. Who gave you authority to desicrate the
WORD like this?
With this kind of bible study you will never make head nor
detail out of it, nor will any one that reads your post
know what you are talking about. Get a clue!

> Rev.11: 1-3:1And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the
> angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar,
> and them that worship therein.
> 2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it
> not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they
> tread under foot forty and two months (1,260 days). 3 And I will give
> power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two
> hundred and threescore days (1,260 days) clothed in sackcloth.
> http://www.thehungersite.com

UMM, you missed the "starting date and the finish date for
the prophecy there friend.
Do you know who the 2 wittnesses are, besides the 2 olive
trees and the two lampstands? Any guesses?

Misty,

>
> http://www.thehungersite.com

Misty, of the mist.

lukematon,
13.7.2001 klo 6.17.3213.7.2001
vastaanottaja
It is a large order but here goes.

I will not say all I know so you can ask some questions
to fill in that which I did not make clear.
After all this is a discussion.

First the Time, times and half time;
Yes this is one of the ways the bible gives us the (1260)
day prophecy.
and it has a starting date of when the man of sin is revealed.
538 AD. to 1798 AD.. other thing were going on during that
prophetic time also see Revelation 12 and 13.

Next should be 70 weeks of year:
A little math, 70 X seven days of the week,
70 X 7 looks like 490 years. IT has a starting date,
see Daniel 9:25;
25
"Know and understand this: From the issuing of
the decree[1] to restore and rebuild Jerusalem
until the Anointed One,[2] the ruler, comes,
there will be seven `sevens,' and sixty-two
`sevens.' It will be rebuilt with streets and
a trench, but in times of trouble.
(foot notes)
[25] Or word
[25] Or an anointed one; also in verse 26

OK, Bible history shows us that that date was the end of the
70 years captivity of the children of israel (the 2 southern tribes)
(606/605 BC. to 537/536 BC. in the timeline)
But it was not until 457 that the decree went out and the
children started to go back to rebuild Jerusalem, but under
duress and great opposition.
So 457 plus 490 years should bring us to approximately 34 AD.
3 and 1/2 years after Jesus was cut off form his people,
until the one was sent out to choose the new jerusalem form
all people including from the gentiles.
There is no year zero so one year is lost for the first
year.

You did not mention the 2300 days of Daniel 8:14.
This prophecy also started on or about the time of
Rome was just and infant approximately 168 BC. and starting
to flex it mussels and Growing in world strength so, count
off 2300 minus one for the change of the
Millennium form BC. to AD and we come up with a prophecy not
fulfilled as of today's date, (July 13 2001)
168 BC. - 2300 = 2131 AD.

The 1290 day prophecy;
Starting date When Jesus was crucified, or when Jerusalem
was sacked by Rome in 70 AD. either one will not let us
declare that that prophecy has been fulfilled to date for we
do not have the finish date.
Daniel 12:11
"From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished
and the abomination that causes desolation is set up,
there will be 1,290 days.


The 1335 Days prophecy;
Here again we are missing both the starting date and the
finish date.
Daniel 12:12
Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the
end of the 1,335 days.
(NIV BIBLE)

Misty,

John Abrams

lukematon,
13.7.2001 klo 19.38.1713.7.2001
vastaanottaja
Re:

Do you know who the 2 wittnesses are, besides the 2 olive trees and the
two lampstands? Any guesses?
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
1) Enoch and Elijah - nope.
No one has ascended into heaven.
They answer:
But Enoch was translated!
So was Joseph's body after Israel left Egypt.
What about Elijah?
He wrote a letter 10 years after he was taken up in a whirlwind. Not
him.
2) America and Britain - Doubt it - but since I came up with this a long
time ago, and still can't get it out of my head, I'll mention it.
3) Old Testament and New Testament - doubt it very much.
4) Two men chosen by G-d to witness in the last days - best guess.
Besides, they may be Jews, even Rabbi's.
-MUST- they be Christians?
The way my quick chart lined up , the court is trampled and on the same
day they start their witness. Sounds like the court being trampled set
them off - on their mission.
end
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

1260-1290-1335 days

Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Fri, Jul 13, 2001, 8:44am (EDT+4) From:
yardh...@home.com (Misty, of the mist.)

http://www.thehungersite.com

John Abrams

lukematon,
13.7.2001 klo 19.19.5413.7.2001
vastaanottaja
Hi Misty,
Unlike Valerie, I don't have a 'calling to teach', and do not know
everything.
Anything anyone wants to discuss, for as long as they want to discuss it
- bring it on!
I am the type to beat a dead horse - into powder.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:
Would you like to make a timeline with me to see how this happens?
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
j:
Sure.
I think that all of the answers are out there.
But no one has put them together.
And you never know who has a piece to the puzzle.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:
where is the 1215 days prophecy???
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
Sacrifice stopped for 1290 days.
75 days later on the 75th day after the sacrifices are stopped the outer
court will be trampled on , on that very same 75th day, two witnesses
will speak out (start prophesying) because of their outrage over the
court being trampled on.
1290 days after the sacrifices are stopped the abomination will be set
up, this will be the 1290th day since the sacrifices were stopped and it
will be the 1215th day since the two started witnessing.
The abomination now is set up on the 1290th day since the sacrifices
were stopped, this will stay set up until Christ comes on the 1335th
day- which is 45 days after the abomination was set up.
These last 45 days are the days 'according to the days Israel was
brought out of Egypt' during which time G-d will show 'marvelous things'
(Valerie's) .
Am I right? I don't know.....
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:
How did you get 1260 from the "time, times, and a half time. prophecy?
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
Time = 1 year.
1 year = 360 days
360 days = 12 x 30
12 months x 30 days = 1 time.
Times = 2 years
Half a time = 6 months or 180 days.
end
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

At the 1290th day the abomination will be set up.

The sacrifice stopped, was prophesied in the 70 weeks of year in Daniel
9 and that was the 490 year prophecy where He was cut off in the middle
of the last week of years. Not in the middle of a week as a seven day
week.
you have put 2 prophesies together in the above paragraph. How did you
come to the conclusion that the 1290 days was involved with the 70 weeks
of years?
75 days later the witnesses start to prophecy- for 1260 days and on the
same day the court is trampled underfoot. 1215 days later the
abomination is set up. 45 days after that is Christ's coming to rule and
the resurrection, on the 1335th day.


Re: 1260-1290-1335 days

Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Fri, Jul 13, 2001, 8:44am (EDT+4) From:
yardh...@home.com (Misty, of the mist.)

http://www.thehungersite.com

John Abrams

lukematon,
13.7.2001 klo 20.24.2213.7.2001
vastaanottaja
RE:
This is my understanding of the 3 time periods of Dan. 12:
1335 days prior to Christ's coming (Dan. 12:12), a blessing is
pronounced on those who wait until this point in time; they are probably
taken to "the wilderness" during the Great Tribulation (Rev. 12:14).
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
That is fascinating. I never considered an anti-date, where the waiting
was to the 1335th day before the event. I always thought of the 1335th
day as the day of the blessing- Christ's coming and the resurrection,
rewards.
I will study this.....
end
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo 45 days elapse

http://www.thehungersite.com

John Abrams

lukematon,
14.7.2001 klo 19.49.5614.7.2001
vastaanottaja
RE:
This is my understanding of the 3 time periods of Dan. 12: 1335 days
prior to Christ's coming (Dan. 12:12), a blessing is pronounced on those
who wait until this point in time; they are probably taken to "the
wilderness" during the Great Tribulation (Rev. 12:14).
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
Daniel 11
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the
abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two
hundred and ninety days.
12
Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and
five and thirty days.
-Since the 1290 days are mentioned immediately prior to the 1335th day,
I see these things happening at the end of these dates not the
beginning. 1290 coming/ happening before 1335. You have the 'event' of
the 1335th day verse coming on day 'one' ,the 'first' day, not on the
last or 1335th day.
And the event of the preceding verse, the 1290 days, coming one the
'last' or 1290th day.
I believe that the blessing is the resurrection to eternal life on the
last or 1335th day.
What blessing do you see coming on the 'first' of the 1335 days??? The
saints sealed?
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo RE:
45 days elapse
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
Have you read Valerie's argument for the 45 day coming at the end of
these days?
It is pretty strong.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:
1290 days prior to Christ's coming (Dan. 12:11), the Beast's armies
surround Jerusalem (Luke 21:20); the abomination of desolation, the
Antichrist, enters the rebuilt Temple and stops the sacrifices (Matt.
24:15; Dan. 12:11).
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
I see the 45 days coming at the end, thanks to Valerie. So the first
event , as I see it, would be on the first of the 1290 days, when the
sacrifices are stopped.
Q?:Will it be the Beast or the False Prophet that enters the Temple? I
believe it will be the False Prophet , the Anti-Christ, or more bluntly,
the Last Pope.
And owing to his help in bringing down the Berlin Wall ,etc. Which
allowed Europe to unite. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if 'he' is the
current Pope. (The White horse does come before the Red (Beast) in the
seals.)
When the sacrifices are stopped -must- he enter the Temple at that time?
Could not this verse---
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the
abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two
hundred and ninety days.
---be read like this:
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, there
shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days, -then- and the
abomination that maketh desolate set up. --????
As in:
'And from the time that (the daily sacrifice shall be taken away) I get
to work, and the (abomination that maketh desolate set up) testing of
the last widget , there shall be ( a thousand two hundred and ninety
days) 8 hours.'
Q?:Does the Anti-Christ himself stop the sacrifices, or is this done by
his 'agents'?
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:
30 days elapse
(30 days for the holy people to escape.)
1260 days prior to Christ's coming (Dan. 12:7), the Great Tribulation
starts and continues for 3 1/2 years (Dan. 12:7); Jerusalem is tread
under foot by the Gentiles, and the Jews are led away captive into all
nations (Rev. 11:2; Luke 21:24). The two witnesses prophesy during this
last 3 1/2 years (Rev. 11:3).
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
Are this days precise?
On a single day - the very same day - Jerusalem will be tread under foot
-and- the tribulation will start -and- the two witnesses will begin to
prophesy -and- the church will fly into/ or reach , the wilderness?
Do you see all of these events happening on the same day?
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:
(J.F.B., Com., Rev. 12:6). The year-day and the day-day theories are
both true: "The 1260 years of papal misrule in the name of Christ may be
represented by three and a half years of open Antichristianity and
persecution [just] before the millennium" (J.F.B., Com., Dan. 7:25).
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
I have more 'open' theories than even I know of - and have assumed that
eventually I would choose either the days are days or the days are years
theory as being correct.
This theory ' The year-day and the day-day theories are both true' -
gives me a headache.
I wish someone could show me one single dual prophecy. I know of none.
Maybe I am just to stubborn to see the 'truth'. But I know of none.
end

John Abrams


http://www.thehungersite.com

Ginger
Nov.17th,1971-Dec.29th,2000

John Abrams

lukematon,
14.7.2001 klo 19.51.3814.7.2001
vastaanottaja
RE:
This is my understanding of the 3 time periods of Dan. 12: 1335 days
prior to Christ's coming (Dan. 12:12), a blessing is pronounced on those
who wait until this point in time; they are probably taken to "the
wilderness" during the Great Tribulation (Rev. 12:14).
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
Daniel 11
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the
abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two
hundred and ninety days.
12
Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and
five and thirty days.
-Since the 1290 days are mentioned immediately prior to the 1335th day,
I see these things happening at the end of these dates not the
beginning. You have the 'event' of the 1335th day verse coming on day
'one' ,the 'first' day.
And the event of the preceding verse, the 1290 days coming one the

'last' or 1290th day.
I believe that the blessing is the resurrection to eternal life on the
last or 1335th day.
What blessing do you see coming on the 'first' of the 1335 days??? The
saints sealed?
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:
45 days elapse
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
Have you read Valerie's argument for the 45 day coming at the end of
these days?
It is pretty strong.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:
1290 days prior to Christ's coming (Dan. 12:11), the Beast's armies
surround Jerusalem (Luke 21:20); the abomination of desolation, the
Antichrist, enters the rebuilt Temple and stops the sacrifices (Matt.
24:15; Dan. 12:11).
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
I see the 45 days coming at the end, thanks to Valerie. So the first
event would be on the first of the 1290 days, when the sacrifices are
stopped.
Will it be the Beast or the False Prophet that enters the Temple? I
believe it will be the False Prophet , the Anti-Christ, or more bluntly,
the Last Pope.
And owing to his help in bringing down the Berlin Wall ,etc. Which
allowed Europe to unite. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he the current
Pope. The White horse comes before the Red in the seals. When the

sacrifices are stopped -must- he enter the Temple at that time? Could
not this verse---
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the
abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two
hundred and ninety days.
---be read like this:
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, there
shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days, -then- and the
abomination that maketh desolate set up. --???? As in:
And from the time that (the daily sacrifice shall be taken away) I get
to work, and the (abomination that maketh desolate set up) testing of
the last widget , there shall be ( a thousand two hundred and ninety
days) 8 hours.
---be read like this:
Does the Anti-Christ himself stop the sacrifices, or is this done by his
'agents'?
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:
30 days elapse
(30 days for the holy people to escape.)
1260 days prior to Christ's coming (Dan. 12:7), the Great Tribulation
starts and continues for 3 1/2 years (Dan. 12:7); Jerusalem is tread
under foot by the Gentiles, and the Jews are led away captive into all
nations (Rev. 11:2; Luke 21:24). The two witnesses prophesy during this
last 3 1/2 years (Rev. 11:3).
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
Are this days precise?
On a single day - the very same day - Jerusalem will be tread under foot
-and- the tribulation will start -and- the two witnesses will begin to
prophesy -and- the church will fly into/ or reach , the wilderness?
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:
(J.F.B., Com., Rev. 12:6). The year-day and the day-day theories are
both true: "The 1260 years of papal misrule in the name of Christ may be
represented by three and a half years of open Antichristianity and
persecution [just] before the millennium" (J.F.B., Com., Dan. 7:25).
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
I have more 'open' theories than even I know of - and assumed that

John Abrams

lukematon,
14.7.2001 klo 20.15.1314.7.2001
vastaanottaja
RE:
This is my understanding of the 3 time periods of Dan. 12: 1335 days
prior to Christ's coming (Dan. 12:12), a blessing is pronounced on those
who wait until this point in time; they are probably taken to "the
wilderness" during the Great Tribulation (Rev. 12:14).
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
Daniel 11
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the
abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two
hundred and ninety days.
12
Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and
five and thirty days.
-Since the 1290 days are mentioned immediately prior to the 1335th day,
I see these things happening at the end of these dates not the
beginning. You have the 'event' of the 1335th day verse coming on day
'one' ,the 'first' day.
And the event of the preceding verse, the 1290 days coming one the
'last' or 1290th day.
I believe that the blessing is the resurrection to eternal life on the
last or 1335th day.
What blessing do you see coming on the 'first' of the 1335 days??? The
saints sealed?
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:
45 days elapse
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
Have you read Valerie's argument for the -45- days coming at the end of

these days?
It is pretty strong.
Here it is, you will understand:
Revelation 15:1And I saw another sign in heaven, great and -marvellous-,
seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the
wrath of God.
Micah 7:15According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt
will I shew unto him -marvellous- things.
Exodus 16:1The whole Israelite community set out from Elim and came to
the Desert of Sin, which is between Elim and Sinai, on the fifteenth day
of the second month after they had come out of Egypt.
-Second month, 15th day= 45 days.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:

1290 days prior to Christ's coming (Dan. 12:11), the Beast's armies
surround Jerusalem (Luke 21:20); the abomination of desolation, the
Antichrist, enters the rebuilt Temple and stops the sacrifices (Matt.
24:15; Dan. 12:11).
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
I see the 45 days coming at the end, thanks to Valerie. So the first
event would be on the first of the 1290 days, when the sacrifices are
stopped.
(30 days for the holy people to escape.)
1260 days prior to Christ's coming (Dan. 12:7), the Great Tribulation
starts and continues for 3 1/2 years (Dan. 12:7); Jerusalem is tread
under foot by the Gentiles, and the Jews are led away captive into all
nations (Rev. 11:2; Luke 21:24). The two witnesses prophesy during this
last 3 1/2 years (Rev. 11:3).
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
Are this days precise?
On a single day - the very same day - Jerusalem will be tread under foot
-and- the tribulation will start -and- the two witnesses will begin to
prophesy -and- the church will fly into/ or reach , the wilderness?
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:
(J.F.B., Com., Rev. 12:6). The year-day and the day-day theories are
both true: "The 1260 years of papal misrule in the name of Christ may be
represented by three and a half years of open Antichristianity and
persecution [just] before the millennium" (J.F.B., Com., Dan. 7:25).

John Abrams

lukematon,
15.7.2001 klo 13.02.1615.7.2001
vastaanottaja
J:
Have you read Valerie's argument for the -45- days coming at the -end-

of these days?
It is pretty strong.
Here it is, you will understand:

Revelation 15:1And I saw another sign in heaven, great and -marvellous-,

seven angels having the seven -last- plagues; for in them is filled up
the wrath of God.

Micah 7:15According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt
will I shew unto him -marvellous- things.

Exodus 16:1The whole Israelite community set out from Elim and came to
the Desert of Sin, which is between Elim and Sinai, on the fifteenth day
of the second month after they had come out of Egypt.

-Second month, 15th day= 45 days.

Last 45 days: last 7 plagues

Q?: Many believe that the (last) Day of the Lord will last for one year.
That is possible.
Right now I lean toward it lasting only - one day.
Could it last 45 days?

I have the strong gut feeling that everything will simply fall into
place, if we let it.
Like manna, each piece of the puzzle descending into its assigned
lot.....can almost see it......

John Abrams

lukematon,
15.7.2001 klo 13.19.0315.7.2001
vastaanottaja
..two thousand three hundred evenings and mornings....
.....one thousand one hundred and fifty days....

In ancient Israel how many sacrifices were offered each day? An
evening and a morning sacrifice?
Were there days when more than two were offered in a single day?
Were there days when less than two were offered in a single day?
Were there days when none were offered in a single day?

If the 2300 means 2300 'sacrifices' , depending on when this time
began, it could cover (mean) 2300 days; 1150 days; 1260 days? 1290 days?
etc....???
If 2 were offered a day, and 0 were offered on the Sabbath x a 30 day
month;
one month of sacrifices would contain:
approximately: 48 sacrifices in 30 days;
not -60-.
Was it possible, or will it be possible to have 2300 sacrifices which
occur during a period of '1260' (etc.) days???
I have been having trouble finding the accurate information needed to
answer these questions.

Two thousand three hundred 'sacrifices'?

(Gotta get back to reading scriptures from the Book, and get offline
once and awhile)

BTW I just read this at another site:

'The 1290 days refer to the first half of the 7, and the 1335 days refer
to the second half.'

.....never considered that....another 'headache'.....

Besq

lukematon,
15.7.2001 klo 16.44.2715.7.2001
vastaanottaja
John Abrams wrote:

Here's something else: Suppose it is time added on to the beginning to give
those who are going to "flee" time to flee. Those who are in Israel can go
where they have to go in a matter of days but in other parts of the world,
people have to get what they're taking with them, gather together, arrange
transport and get where they are going. That's why it says "when you see
these things" etc., you know its time.

Misty, of the mist.

lukematon,
16.7.2001 klo 6.53.0816.7.2001
vastaanottaja
All your days prophesies must have a starting date of some
kind.
Or we, must find a way to get the starting date.
~ ~ ~
M
I will take your days prophesies as they seem to appear
in the bible, as close as I understand when they appear
anyway.

Daniel 7:25

25
He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints
and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints
will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time.[1]
[25] Or for a year, two years and half a year


Question; When would the, time, times and half a time,
begin?

Ans; When the man of sin is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 2
1
Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our
being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers,
2
not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy,
report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that
the day of the Lord has already come.
3
Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will
not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of
lawlessness[1] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
4
He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that
is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up
in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
(Foot note)
[3] Some manuscripts sin

Was the man of sin Revealed?
Yes when the man of the Roman Religious sect took the throne
of the Emperor and declared himself to be the papa, or the
big man of religious world and the replacement of God.
AKA the first pope, to sit on the throne.

The 2300 evenings and mornings was to start?

According to Daniel 8:19-27, IT looks like that is talking
about Alexander the Great of Greek nation. when it was in world power.
I can not find a starting date for this 2300 day, (evenings
and morning) as of yet according to the Daniel 8 passages.
some say that the stating date may be when the decree to
rebuild Jerusalem went out was the starting date but it is
very hard to decipher from that text.

I do not see any 1150 days prophecy in any bible I have
read.
Where did you get that from? Book chapter and verse is
needed for that please.

All that sacrifices carp is pure conjecture and has no biblical
thread to its application to Prophecy fulfillment.

The 1290 days prophecy has both a starting Date and a fulfillment
date
See Daniel 12:11


11
"From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the
abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be
1,290 days.

When was the daily sacrifice abolished?
Was it when Jesus died and the curtain was torn from top to
bottom or was it 70 AD. when Rome sacked Jerusalem?
When was the Abomination that causes desolation set up?

The 1335 days prophecy;
Does not appear to have a starting date at all

See Daniel 12:12


12
Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the
1,335 days.

The 1260 days prophecy;

This appears to be the same time as the time, times and
half a time, and the 42 months and the 3 1/2 days, of
Daniel and Revelation.
these prophetic time periods are shown in Daniel 7 and 12.
Revelation 11, 12, and 13.
They all appear to be showing the different part that would
be taking place in the Great TRibulation.


John Abrams wrote:

> ...two thousand three hundred evenings and mornings....
> ......one thousand one hundred and fifty days....

>
> In ancient Israel how many sacrifices were offered each day? An
> evening and a morning sacrifice?
> Were there days when more than two were offered in a single day?
> Were there days when less than two were offered in a single day?
> Were there days when none were offered in a single day?
>
> If the 2300 means 2300 'sacrifices' , depending on when this time
> began, it could cover (mean) 2300 days; 1150 days; 1260 days? 1290 days?
> etc....???
> If 2 were offered a day, and 0 were offered on the Sabbath x a 30 day
> month;
> one month of sacrifices would contain:
> approximately: 48 sacrifices in 30 days;
> not -60-.
> Was it possible, or will it be possible to have 2300 sacrifices which
> occur during a period of '1260' (etc.) days???
> I have been having trouble finding the accurate information needed to
> answer these questions.
>
> Two thousand three hundred 'sacrifices'?
>
> (Gotta get back to reading scriptures from the Book, and get offline
> once and awhile)
>
> BTW I just read this at another site:
>
> 'The 1290 days refer to the first half of the 7, and the 1335 days refer
> to the second half.'

prove it by bible scripture not what someone else says!


Misty,

>
> ......never considered that....another 'headache'.....

John Abrams

lukematon,
16.7.2001 klo 8.53.1016.7.2001
vastaanottaja
Re:

Here's something else: Suppose it is time added on to the beginning to
give those who are going to "flee" time to flee.
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
Josephus wrote of a voice heard throughout the city saying ,' Its time
to go'.
The Christians left, then Jerusalem was destroyed.
If this is true, that same thing may happen again. Probably on a Holy
Day.
The woman flys into he wildernes for 1260 days. Does that count start
from the day they leave or the day they arrive?
There is also 30 days- 1290-1260=30.
Perhaps they will flee during this 30.....
end
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

1260-1290-1335-2300 days-JRC

Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Sun, Jul 15, 2001, 8:44pm (EDT+4) From:
Besqa*ns*@earthlink.net (Besq)

http://www.thehungersite.com

James R. Calvert

lukematon,
16.7.2001 klo 15.17.5316.7.2001
vastaanottaja

"Misty, of the mist." wrote:

> Daniel 7:25



> He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints
> and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints
> will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time.[1]
> [25] Or for a year, two years and half a year

> Question; When would the, time, times and half a time,
> begin?

> Ans; When the man of sin is revealed.

> 2 Thessalonians 2


Daniel 7:25 and 2 Thessalonians 2:2-4 are separate prophecies referring
to separate events. Daniel 7:25 refers to papal misrule between ancient
and modern times. 2 Thess. 2:2-4 refers to papal misrule during the
last three and one half years of the present age. Notice that the
individual referred to in 2 Thess. 2:2-4, or the last Pope, will be
alive at the second coming of Chirst (verse 8).


> Was the man of sin Revealed?
> Yes when the man of the Roman Religious sect took the throne
> of the Emperor and declared himself to be the papa, or the
> big man of religious world and the replacement of God.
> AKA the first pope, to sit on the throne.


Even in his day, the apostle Paul said that "the mystery of iniquity
doth already work" (2 Thess. 2:7); but he also said that the "man of
sin" would not be revealed until "the restrainer" is taken out of the
way. The man of sin is the final Pope. The restrainer is Michael who
is presently restraining the demonic forces wishing to destroy Israel
(Dan. 10:21; 12:1). Once Michael is taken out of the way, the man of
sin will sit in the temple of God (2 Thess. 2:4), and Gentiles shall
tread the holy city under foot for 42 months (Rev. 11:2). The 42 months
of Rev. 11:2 constitute the Great Tribulation.


> The 2300 evenings and mornings was to start?
> According to Daniel 8:19-27, IT looks like that is talking
> about Alexander the Great of Greek nation. when it was in world power.
> I can not find a starting date for this 2300 day, (evenings
> and morning) as of yet according to the Daniel 8 passages.
> some say that the stating date may be when the decree to
> rebuild Jerusalem went out was the starting date but it is
> very hard to decipher from that text.
> I do not see any 1150 days prophecy in any bible I have
> read.
> Where did you get that from? Book chapter and verse is
> needed for that please.
> All that sacrifices carp is pure conjecture and has no biblical
> thread to its application to Prophecy fulfillment.


Does any of Daniel 8 go beyond the time of Antiochus Epiphanes?


> The 1290 days prophecy has both a starting Date and a fulfillment
> date
> See Daniel 12:11
> 11
> "From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the
> abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be
> 1,290 days.
> When was the daily sacrifice abolished?
> Was it when Jesus died and the curtain was torn from top to
> bottom or was it 70 AD. when Rome sacked Jerusalem?
> When was the Abomination that causes desolation set up?


The prophecy from Daniel 11:40 onward concerns "the time of the end."
"And at that time ... there shall be a time of trouble such as never
was" (Dan. 12:1). The "abomination that maketh desolate" shall be set
up at the time of the end--not before.

This prophesied time of the end will be a time of great apostasy, a time
of "falling away" (2 Thess. 2:3). It will probably be a time of great
persecution by the antichristian forces that are now amassing. In
Daniel 12:12, therefore, some kind of blessing is given to those who
have not fallen away 1335 days before the end. 1290 days before the
end, the reinstituted sacrifices of the rebuilt temple shall be "taken
away" and the "abomination that maketh desolate set up [the Antichrist
Pope in the rebuilt Temple]" (Dan. 12:11). 30 days later, the Great
Tribulation will begin and last for 1260 days (Dan. 12:7). This is why
Christ instructed those in Judea who see the Antichrist in the temple to
"flee into the mountains" (Matt. 24:15-16).


> The 1260 days prophecy;
> This appears to be the same time as the time, times and
> half a time, and the 42 months and the 3 1/2 days, of
> Daniel and Revelation.
> these prophetic time periods are shown in Daniel 7 and 12.
> Revelation 11, 12, and 13.
> They all appear to be showing the different part that would
> be taking place in the Great TRibulation.


In Matthew 24:3, Christ is specifically asked: "What shall be the sign
of thy coming, and of the end of the age?" Notice that His coming is
specifically equated in this verse with the end of the present age. He
says that the end of the age will be preceded by the appearance of a
desolating abomination in a holy place in Judea. And He says that we
can understand what He is referring to through Daniel the prophet
(verses 15-16). Daniel says all of this will occur in a place where
daily sacrifices were being offered (Dan. 12:11). Now none of these
things have ever happened since the prophecy was uttered by Christ; they
are all yet future: the temple must be rebuilt, sacrifices must be
reinstituted, and the Antichrist must appear to stop the sacrifices and
proclaim himself God (2 Thess. 2:4), regardless of all preterist
interpretations.

John Abrams

lukematon,
17.7.2001 klo 21.12.4117.7.2001
vastaanottaja
Re:
(2 Thess.2:7); but he also said that the "man of sin" would not be

revealed until "the restrainer" is taken out of the way. The man of sin
is the final Pope. The restrainer is Michael who is presently
restraining the demonic forces wishing to destroy Israel (Dan. 10:21;
12:1). Once Michael is taken out of the way, the man of sin will sit in
the temple of God (2 Thess. 2:4),
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince
which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time
of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same
time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that
shall be found written in the book.---------
How is Michael taken out of the way (how? by whom?) and at the same
time he 'stands up' ??
end
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


1260-1290-1335-2300 days-JRC

Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Mon, Jul 16, 2001, 12:17pm (EDT-3) From:
jame...@pacbell.com (James R. Calvert)

http://www.thehungersite.com

Misty, of the mist.

lukematon,
18.7.2001 klo 3.34.2818.7.2001
vastaanottaja
I have tried many times and many post to discuss this with
Valerie but she refused to move from her position of flight
and come down to earth and right understanding of making a
timeline for all of this to be put in perspective.

Any one can quote bible passages, but that only is a reference
for adding meaning to something discussed.
If the one posting the bible passages can have them add to
a timeline, either Bible timeline or history timeline, then
it is very easy to check off just when this or that prophecy
is fulfilled or not.


John Abrams wrote:

> J:
> Have you read Valerie's argument for the -45- days coming at the -end-
> of these days?
> It is pretty strong.

Even if it did come at that time, all it shows is a, so what?

> Here it is, you will understand:
>
> Revelation 15:1And I saw another sign in heaven, great and -marvellous-,
> seven angels having the seven -last- plagues; for in them is filled up
> the wrath of God.

When is the starting date? Or is it just a bible quote thrown
out here to show someone can quote the bible?


>
> Micah 7:15According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt
> will I shew unto him -marvellous- things.
>
> Exodus 16:1The whole Israelite community set out from Elim and came to
> the Desert of Sin, which is between Elim and Sinai, on the fifteenth day
> of the second month after they had come out of Egypt.
>
> -Second month, 15th day= 45 days.
>
> Last 45 days: last 7 plagues

That is a really long assumption, but means very little. (? ? ? )

>
> Q?: Many believe that the (last) Day of the Lord will last for one year.
> That is possible.
> Right now I lean toward it lasting only - one day.
> Could it last 45 days?

How is this assumption made?

>
> I have the strong gut feeling that everything will simply fall into
> place, if we let it.

IT will fall into place much better if you can put it in
a timeline of some kind.
The prophesies are under code, a simple code that God used
when He made some of the earlier Prophesies.
See Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:4-6.
Or problem is to know when to apply the keys of the above
passages, to the prophesies we are trying to make sense of.

Just dangling passages out there all by them selves is most
meaningless, unless they are put in perspective.

If you do make a bible timeline and superimpose it over a
history timeline You may well see some or many prophesies
fulfilled.

Some prophesies do not have a beginning date nor a ending
date, such as the "RAPTURE". So where would this fit in a
timeline? Answer it is an on going prophecy and it is still
going on today as it did over 1900 years ago, when Jesus
came out of that Grave and talked to Mary Magdala and she
became the first one to believe after His resurrection.

Misty,

Misty, of the mist.

lukematon,
18.7.2001 klo 3.50.0518.7.2001
vastaanottaja

Besq wrote:

If it is talking about the time to flee; may I suggest that it was a coded
message. The Christians understood the message and got out of
Jerusalem long before it happened, but the Jews rejected the
writings of the "Way" and paid no attention to it and were
caught up in the holocaust of that time just like they got
caught up in the holocaust of Hitler's Annyalations of the
Jews.

Misty,

Misty, of the mist.

lukematon,
18.7.2001 klo 7.17.2918.7.2001
vastaanottaja

James R. Calvert wrote:

>
> "Misty, of the mist." wrote:
>
>
>> Daniel 7:25
>
>
>
>> He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints
>> and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints
>> will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time.[1]
>> [25] Or for a year, two years and half a year
>
>
>
>> Question; When would the, time, times and half a time,
>> begin?
>
>
>
>> Ans; When the man of sin is revealed.
>
>
>
>> 2 Thessalonians 2
>
>
>
> Daniel 7:25 and 2 Thessalonians 2:2-4 are separate prophecies referring
> to separate events.


Prophesies of the Old Witness are explained in the words of
the New Witness!
So, yes they are both talking about the same time period, just
as the are much further explained in Revelation 11, 12, and 13.

> Daniel 7:25 refers to papal misrule between ancient
> and modern times.

Of which has a beginning date and a ending date as prophesied
in the 3 1/2 PROPHETIC YEARS it would be in power
There are 42 months, in 3 1/2 years and there are also
1260 days in in 42 months, when using a 30 day month.

> 2 Thess. 2:2-4 refers to papal misrule during the
> last three and one half years of the present age.


How do you get that out of there? Do you know the
three ad one half years are a prophetic time, and need
to be decoded by the bible itself?

> Notice that the
> individual referred to in 2 Thess. 2:2-4, or the last Pope, will be
> alive at the second coming of Chirst (verse 8).
>

Any reference to a pope is referring to his office and not the
individual, other then the first one that was revealed when
the first one took the seat of authority on or about 538 AD.
And there was a person in that seat for the prophesied "time
times and a half time, or the prophetic 3 1/2 years.
That lasted for the 1260 literal year that collimated with
the arrest and imprisonment of the pope on or about 1798.
You do the math.

>
>> Was the man of sin Revealed?
>> Yes when the man of the Roman Religious sect took the throne
>> of the Emperor and declared himself to be the papa, or the
>> big man of religious world and the replacement of God.
>> AKA the first pope, to sit on the throne.
>
>
>
> Even in his day, the apostle Paul said that "the mystery of iniquity
> doth already work" (2 Thess. 2:7); but he also said that the "man of
> sin" would not be revealed until "the restrainer" is taken out of the
> way.

The man of sin is the final Pope?
Who was the first pope God's immaculate messenger that was
attempting to take the place of God?

> The man of sin is the final Pope. The restrainer is Michael who
> is presently restraining the demonic forces wishing to destroy Israel
> (Dan. 10:21; 12:1).


Where was Michael during the Papal Crusades or Hitler's Crusades.
No Michael was taken out of the way many many years ago.
It is God that allowed that Great Tribulation to take place,
and attempt to put an end to the christians or the "saints".
and it was God that let Hitler attempt to put an end to the
Jews during his Holocaust blitz.
So, realize God is in charge and did and will continue to let
his prophesies unfold as history unfolds.

> Once Michael is taken out of the way, the man of
> sin will sit in the temple of God (2 Thess. 2:4), and Gentiles shall
> tread the holy city under foot for 42 months (Rev. 11:2). The 42 months
> of Rev. 11:2 constitute the Great Tribulation.
>

Ask any Catholic and they will tell you that the pope is as
God on earth when speaking excathedra.
What is the New Holy City? Is it not the New Christian body
of BElievers? yes it is and why did Rome throw the Christians
to the lions? And why is the Rcc still using the Inquisition to
Kill heretics or Christians? Do not think for one minute that
Rcc is Christian by any standards.
It is "ANTICHRISTIAN, and has been form the beginning of it
inception even before it was the Roman Papacy.
That is why God Written word calls it the last beast or the
fourth beast.

The 42 months is a "prophetic time period" and it contains 1260 prophetic
Days.
If you look at Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:4-6 you will get
the code to unlock that prophecy. A year for a day or a
day for a year.
yes, days in prophecy are different then literal days!

>
>> The 2300 evenings and mornings was to start?
>> According to Daniel 8:19-27, IT looks like that is talking
>> about Alexander the Great of Greek nation. when it was in world power.
>> I can not find a starting date for this 2300 day, (evenings
>> and morning) as of yet according to the Daniel 8 passages.
>> some say that the stating date may be when the decree to
>> rebuild Jerusalem went out was the starting date but it is
>> very hard to decipher from that text.
>> I do not see any 1150 days prophecy in any bible I have
>> read.
>> Where did you get that from? Book chapter and verse is
>> needed for that please.
>> All that sacrifices carp is pure conjecture and has no biblical
>> thread to its application to Prophecy fulfillment.
>
>
>
> Does any of Daniel 8 go beyond the time of Antiochus Epiphanes?
>

Some say it is the 2300 day prophecy is the longest prophecy of the bible
if the code of a "day for a year" is used, it is 2300 literal
years, so yes it does go way beyond.

>
>> The 1290 days prophecy has both a starting Date and a fulfillment
>> date
>> See Daniel 12:11
>> 11
>> "From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the
>> abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be
>> 1,290 days.
>> When was the daily sacrifice abolished?
>> Was it when Jesus died and the curtain was torn from top to
>> bottom or was it 70 AD. when Rome sacked Jerusalem?
>> When was the Abomination that causes desolation set up?
>
>
>
> The prophecy from Daniel 11:40 onward concerns "the time of the end."
> "And at that time ... there shall be a time of trouble such as never
> was" (Dan. 12:1). The "abomination that maketh desolate" shall be set
> up at the time of the end--not before.

That abomination was set up in the temple of jerusalem.
some say around 125 AD. when they put the statue of Zeus
in one of the wings of the temple and they sacrificed pigs.
and abomination to the jews.


>
> This prophesied time of the end will be a time of great apostasy, a time
> of "falling away" (2 Thess. 2:3). It will probably be a time of great
> persecution by the antichristian forces that are now amassing.

The falling away was in deed during the time of great apostasy
when rome was throwing Christians to the lions,
From 70 AD. on through 500 AD.. This also was a time of
Roman Pagan rule, that became Roman PAPAL rule in 538 AD.
538 started the Great Tribulation period that lasted the
1260 prophetic day.
Just because you were not there is not an excuse that you
can not look at history and figure this out especially when you
have someone showing you this with the dates and how to apply
prophecy to History for the big picture that satin is trying
to keep us from looking at so his agency will not be revealed
to us today. That beast is powered By the devil or satin that
old Dragon the leads the whole world astray.

> In
> Daniel 12:12, therefore, some kind of blessing is given to those who
> have not fallen away 1335 days before the end. 1290 days before the
> end, the reinstituted sacrifices of the rebuilt temple shall be "taken
> away" and the "abomination that maketh desolate set up [the Antichrist
> Pope in the rebuilt Temple]" (Dan. 12:11).

The 1290 days are prophetic days and are not literal day.

During the time of Jesus, it "was" in a rebuilt Jerusalem and
a rebuilt temple. The Sacrifices were stooped in 70 AD. when
Rome Sacked Jerusalem and drove the Israelites form jerusalem
or took them captive. Then set up their own image in the
temple and sacrificed pigs and abomination to the Children of
Israel by temple laws.
Notice how Rome is always against God and God's People weather
they were jews or Christians, and today they are trying to
pass themselves off as a Christian instatution. What lies they
always are pressing on you and the rest of the world that
remain in their ignorance and are easy to deceive.

> 30 days later, the Great
> Tribulation will begin and last for 1260 days (Dan. 12:7). This is why
> Christ instructed those in Judea who see the Antichrist in the temple to
> "flee into the mountains" (Matt. 24:15-16).
>

The 1260 day are prophetic days and with the code means 1260 literal
years, the exact time that the papacy was in world power the
first time, before it received the deadly wound in 1798.
The wound was healed in 1929 when the pope at that time
fearfully took the throne once again, and form there the
man of sin goes out to deceive the whole world again.


>
>> The 1260 days prophecy;
>> This appears to be the same time as the time, times and
>> half a time, and the 42 months and the 3 1/2 days, of
>> Daniel and Revelation.
>> these prophetic time periods are shown in Daniel 7 and 12.
>> Revelation 11, 12, and 13.
>> They all appear to be showing the different part that would
>> be taking place in the Great TRibulation.
>
>
>
> In Matthew 24:3, Christ is specifically asked: "What shall be the sign
> of thy coming, and of the end of the age?" Notice that His coming is
> specifically equated in this verse with the end of the present age.

We are still living in the age of Christians. That is
the age of the Christian Church, or the body of believers
that have been raptured form the world of unbelievers.

> He
> says that the end of the age will be preceded by the appearance of a
> desolating abomination in a holy place in Judea.

See above.

> And He says that we
> can understand what He is referring to through Daniel the prophet
> (verses 15-16). Daniel says all of this will occur in a place where
> daily sacrifices were being offered (Dan. 12:11).

That is right it was in Jerusalem that the sacrifices were,
and that is where they were stopped and that is where the
pagan set up their own gods and sacrificed pigs to them.

> Now none of these
> things have ever happened since the prophecy was uttered by Christ; they
> are all yet future: the temple must be rebuilt, sacrifices must be
> reinstituted, and the Antichrist must appear to stop the sacrifices and
> proclaim himself God (2 Thess. 2:4), regardless of all preterist
> interpretations.

If so then where is the temple that the Jews were using
during the time Jesus was walking the earth? and why is
there not any animals still being brought into jerusalem for
the last 1900 years.

Oh yes much has happened to jerusalem in the first 2 centuries
of the present era. It almost all has happened.
Just because you were not there to see it does not mean it
is not written in the History books for you to look at if you
really were interested in the truth. Hindsight is 20/20
so go back there and look at it.
You only have about 2600 years of history to go back and
study before you deny what is written in history and the
prophesies.

I am not lying to you nor is history nor is Bible prophecy,
You are just not looking at it properly or prospectively.

Misty,


John Abrams

lukematon,
18.7.2001 klo 9.09.1618.7.2001
vastaanottaja
Re:

The Christians understood the message and got out of Jerusalem long
before it happened.....
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
Don't think so.
According to Josephus the Christians fled after the voice heard
throughout the city.
end
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

\


1260-1290-1335-2300 days-JRC

Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Wed, Jul 18, 2001, 7:50am (EDT+4) From:


yardh...@home.com (Misty, of the mist.)

http://www.thehungersite.com

John Abrams

lukematon,
18.7.2001 klo 10.02.0918.7.2001
vastaanottaja
Re:Here's something else: Suppose it is time added on to the beginning

to give those who are going to "flee" time to flee. Those who are in
Israel can go where they have to go in a matter of days but in other
parts of the world, people have to get what they're taking with them,
gather together, arrange transport and get where they are going. That's
why it says "when you see these things" etc., you know its time.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
Taking with them?!
There won't be time to go back into he house if you are outside.
I have the gut feeling that it will happen as the Saints are gathered on
an annual Holy Day.
They will leave - from there.
-No one else will hear the warning.-
Anyone stopping, even for a second, to get anything, will be -left-
behind.
And where ever they go- it will be HELL.
They are going to thirst, starve, freeze, sweat, hurt, and get eaten by
insects.
24 hours a day, seven days a week, for years- to test them.
And thats only a very small part of what they will have to endure.
When the armies attack them to kill them, many will scream in terror
because they do not put their faith in G-d.
Going into the wilderness will be like the suffering Israel endured.
This time it will be worse.
Israel came out of -slavery- and couldn't do it.
How will those survive who came out of luxury???
Air conditioning? Running water? A toilet? Shelter? A refrigerator?
Food? Sleep?
Many will - die.

They should make a list of clean and unclean insects now.......for they
days they can even find any.

end
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


1260-1290-1335-2300 days-JRC

Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Wed, Jul 18, 2001, 7:50am (EDT+4) From:
yardh...@home.com (Misty, of the mist.)

http://www.thehungersite.com

John Abrams

lukematon,
18.7.2001 klo 10.13.3318.7.2001
vastaanottaja
Re:
I do not see any 1150 days prophecy in any bible I have read.
Where did you get that from? Book chapter and verse is needed for that
please.
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
The phrase evenings and mornings refers to the evening sacrifice and he
morning sacrifice.
Many believe that the 2300 means 1150 days.
During 1150 days there would have been 2300 sacrifices.
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:

All that sacrifices carp is pure conjecture and has no biblical thread
to its application to Prophecy fulfillment.
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
The evenings and mornings refer to the sacrifces. There was never a time
when thre were 2300 sacrifices during a period of 2300 days.
end
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

1260-1290-1335-2300 days-JRC


Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Mon, Jul 16, 2001, 12:17pm (EDT-3) From:
jame...@pacbell.com (James R. Calvert)

http://www.thehungersite.com

John Abrams

lukematon,
18.7.2001 klo 10.17.2518.7.2001
vastaanottaja
Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the
vision.

Daniel 8 :: King James Version (KJV)
Daniel 8
1
In the third year of the reign of king Belshazzar a vision appeared unto
me, even unto me Daniel, after that which appeared unto me at the first.
2
And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at
Shushan in the palace, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in a
vision, and I was by the river of Ulai.
3
Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the
river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one
was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.
4
I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no
beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver
out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.
5
And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the
face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a
notable horn between his eyes.
6
And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing
before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power.
7
And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler
against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was
no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the
ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the
ram out of his hand.
8
Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the
great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the
four winds of heaven.
9
And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding
great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant
land.
10
And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of
the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
11
Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the
daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast
down.
12
And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of
transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it
practised, and prospered.
13
Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that
certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the
daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the
sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
14
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then
shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
15
And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and
sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the
appearance of a man.
16
And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and
said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.
17
So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell
upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the
time of the end shall be the vision.
18
Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward
the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright.
19
And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end
of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.
20
The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and
Persia.
21
And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is
between his eyes is the first king.
22
Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall
stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
23
And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come
to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark
sentences, shall stand up.
24
And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall
destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy
the mighty and the holy people.
25
And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand;
and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy
many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall
be broken without hand.
26
And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true:
wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.
27
And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up,
and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but
none understood it.

http://www.thehungersite.com

Besq

lukematon,
18.7.2001 klo 16.35.0418.7.2001
vastaanottaja
Misty, of the mist. wrote:
Yes, I think it definitely is a clue.  Elsewhere, there are other clues such as, "when you see armies compass Jerusalem".  That would be a definite sign it was time to grab your bags and make a quick exit.  By then, those who are watching and praying would already be packed and ready.

Besq

lukematon,
18.7.2001 klo 16.43.0418.7.2001
vastaanottaja
John Abrams wrote:
You ought to read Flurry's book, "Daniel, Unsaled at Last!". It gives a
very good explanation of this and it all fits together.

John Abrams

lukematon,
19.7.2001 klo 9.24.5619.7.2001
vastaanottaja

Re: You ought to read Flurry's book, "Daniel, Unsaled at Last!". It

gives a
very good explanation of this and it all fits together.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J;
I will request it.
thanks

http://www.thehungersite.com

Uniacke

lukematon,
19.7.2001 klo 9.54.4619.7.2001
vastaanottaja
Was Belshazzar ever a Babylonian king? Not so according to historian and
archeological scholars.
http://studywell.org/articles/belshazzar.htm


"John Abrams" <JAbr...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6106-3B5...@storefull-173.iap.bryant.webtv.net...

Besq

lukematon,
19.7.2001 klo 13.49.0919.7.2001
vastaanottaja
Uniacke wrote:

> Was Belshazzar ever a Babylonian king? Not so according to historian and
> archeological scholars.
> http://studywell.org/articles/belshazzar.htm

I imagine those religions have newsgroups too. You should be talking with
them then.


Uniacke

lukematon,
19.7.2001 klo 14.25.0719.7.2001
vastaanottaja
"Besq" <Besqa*ns*@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3B571D5D...@earthlink.net...
You can't very well call exegesis, science, history, archeology religions,
can you.
Belshazzar was a crowned-prince, not a king. Why would the author of Daniel
call him a ruling king? Simple, he didn't know his Babylonian history.
Scholars further affirm that Daniel was written about 163 B.C. at the end of
the Machabeean period not in the fifth century B.C.
It is your religion that corrupts history, not the historians. Read the
historical crap Hebee Armstrong wrote.;-). That wasn't history. That was
science fiction. You were taught a load of manure and you believe what your
teachers told you. I'm just trying to educate you and even present you with
some serious websites, not sectarian bullshit.
I'm always hoping that one of these days you will see the daylight. Am I
being too optimistic? Your'e making progress since you don't hit the roof
anymore when I jab at Hebee. It must be that your esteem for him is
evaporating slowly but sure. LOL.

>


Besq

lukematon,
19.7.2001 klo 15.03.1619.7.2001
vastaanottaja
Uniacke wrote:

Sorry, I still think the world of him. I just enjoy frustrating you and letting
you make a fool out of yourself. Religion is a discipline, just like "science",
archaeology, etc. Some people are quite religious over their discipline,
especially when they take it upon themselves to "correct" the religious.
"Science" and archaeology are guessing in the dark, the religious have a
textbook.

>
>
> >

Uniacke

lukematon,
19.7.2001 klo 16.39.4219.7.2001
vastaanottaja

"Besq" <Besqa*ns*@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3B572EB3...@earthlink.net...
A textbook some believe is a history book. Archeology is a science, religion
like you stated is a doctrine. When someone tries to use the Bible to
explain science or archeology, or when someone tries to use science and
archeology to prove biblical theology, something is wrong.
No wonder you depreciate science and archeology, both prove your theories
wrong. Furthermore you deny human intelligence with your literal
interpretation of scriptural texts. No wonder you are mixed up and believe
in Hebee's science fiction. It's called brainwashed.
Fools believe others are fools. When a fool says I enjoy, it may well be
that his/her enjoyment is a manifestation of his/her frustrations.
Was Belshazzar a Scythian or a biological descendant of one of the mythical
Heads of tribes? Hebee would have said yes. LOL.

> >
> >
> > >
>


John Abrams

lukematon,
19.7.2001 klo 17.36.1819.7.2001
vastaanottaja
RE: 14
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then
shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
The Jewish "Soncino Commentary", by Dr. Judah J. Slotki, comments on
this verse:
"...the numeral refers to the number of times the offerings, normally
brought twice daily, will be omitted, giving a total period of 1,150
days... ."
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

John Abrams

lukematon,
19.7.2001 klo 17.47.1619.7.2001
vastaanottaja
Dan 8:14
And he said to him, "For two thousand and three hundred evenings and
mornings; then the sanctuary shall be restored to its rightful state."
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
Are the 2300 evenings and mornings 2300 days?
The Jewish "Soncino Commentary", by Dr. Judah J. Slotki, comments on
this verse:
"...the numeral refers to the number of times the offerings, normally
brought twice daily, will be omitted, giving a total period of 1,150
days... ."
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
Were the 1150 days fulfilled in the past?
Or are they yet future?
Daniel 8:19 He said, "Behold, I will make known to you what shall be at
the latter end of the indignation; for it pertains to the appointed time
of the end.
end
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


Daniel 8 :: Revised Standard Version (RSV)
Daniel 8
1
In the third year of the reign of King Belshaz'zar a vision appeared to
me, Daniel, after that which appeared to me at the first.
2
And I saw in the vision; and when I saw, I was in Susa the capital,
which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in the vision, and I was at
the river U'lai.
3
I raised my eyes and saw, and behold, a ram standing on the bank of the
river. It had two horns; and both horns were high, but one was higher
than the other, and the higher one came up last.
4
I saw the ram charging westward and northward and southward; no beast
could stand before him, and there was no one who could rescue from his
power; he did as he pleased and magnified himself.
5
As I was considering, behold, a he-goat came from the west across the
face of the whole earth, without touching the ground; and the goat had a
conspicuous horn between his eyes.
6
He came to the ram with the two horns, which I had seen standing on the
bank of the river, and he ran at him in his mighty wrath.
7
I saw him come close to the ram, and he was enraged against him and
struck the ram and broke his two horns; and the ram had no power to
stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground and trampled upon
him; and there was no one who could rescue the ram from his power.
8
Then the he-goat magnified himself exceedingly; but when he was strong,
the great horn was broken, and instead of it there came up four
conspicuous horns toward the four winds of heaven.
9
Out of one of them came forth a little horn, which grew exceedingly
great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the glorious land.
10
It grew great, even to the host of heaven; and some of the host of the
stars it cast down to the ground, and trampled upon them.
11
It magnified itself, even up to the Prince of the host; and the
continual burnt offering was taken away from him, and the place of his
sanctuary was overthrown.
12
And the host was given over to it together with the continual burnt
offering through transgression; and truth was cast down to the ground,
and the horn acted and prospered.
13
Then I heard a holy one speaking; and another holy one said to the one
that spoke, "For how long is the vision concerning the continual burnt
offering, the transgression that makes desolate, and the giving over of
the sanctuary and host to be trampled under foot?"
14
And he said to him, "For two thousand and three hundred evenings and
mornings; then the sanctuary shall be restored to its rightful state."
15
When I, Daniel, had seen the vision, I sought to understand it; and
behold, there stood before me one having the appearance of a man.
16
And I heard a man's voice between the banks of the U'lai, and it called,
"Gabriel, make this man understand the vision."
17
So he came near where I stood; and when he came, I was frightened and
fell upon my face. But he said to me, "Understand, O son of man, that
the vision is for the time of the end."
18
As he was speaking to me, I fell into a deep sleep with my face to the
ground; but he touched me and set me on my feet.
19
He said, "Behold, I will make known to you what shall be at the latter
end of the indignation; for it pertains to the appointed time of the
end.
20
As for the ram which you saw with the two horns, these are the kings of
Media and Persia.
21
And the he-goat is the king of Greece; and the great horn between his


eyes is the first king.
22

As for the horn that was broken, in place of which four others arose,
four kingdoms shall arise from his nation, but not with his power.
23
And at the latter end of their rule, when the transgressors have reached
their full measure, a king of bold countenance, one who understands
riddles, shall arise.
24
His power shall be great, and he shall cause fearful destruction, and
shall succeed in what he does, and destroy mighty men and the people of
the saints.
25
By his cunning he shall make deceit prosper under his hand, and in his
own mind he shall magnify himself. Without warning he shall destroy
many; and he shall even rise up against the Prince of princes; but, by
no human hand, he shall be broken.
26
The vision of the evenings and the mornings which has been told is true;
but seal up the vision, for it pertains to many days hence."
27
And I, Daniel, was overcome and lay sick for some days; then I rose and
went about the king's business; but I was appalled by the vision and did
not understand it.

http://www.thehungersite.com

John Abrams

lukematon,
19.7.2001 klo 20.37.3719.7.2001
vastaanottaja
Re:
Unia...@rebelspiders.com (Uniacke)
Was Belshazzar ever a Babylonian king? Not so according to historian and
archeological scholars.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
According to your source he ruled as king for several -years-.
end
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


1260-1290-1335-2300 days-B

Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Thu, Jul 19, 2001, 9:54am From:
Unia...@rebelspiders.com (Uniacke)
~
Re: 1260-1290-1335-2300 days-B

Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Thu, Jul 19, 2001, 9:54am From:
Unia...@rebelspiders.com (Uniacke)

http://www.thehungersite.com scholars.

http://www.thehungersite.com

Uniacke

lukematon,
19.7.2001 klo 22.10.3619.7.2001
vastaanottaja
Imagination is the doorway to magick
All you need is time and patience.
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/tintirbabylon/nam.html
LOL.

"John Abrams" <JAbr...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:9945-3B5...@storefull-174.iap.bryant.webtv.net...

Misty, of the mist.

lukematon,
20.7.2001 klo 5.53.3020.7.2001
vastaanottaja

Besq wrote:

> Uniacke wrote:
>
>
>> "Besq" <Besqa*ns*@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> news:3B571D5D...@earthlink.net...
>>

snip>


>>> I imagine those religions have newsgroups too. You should be talking with
>>> them then.
>>>
>>
>> You can't very well call exegesis, science, history, archeology religions,
>> can you.
>> Belshazzar was a crowned-prince, not a king. Why would the author of Daniel
>> call him a ruling king? Simple, he didn't know his Babylonian history.
>> Scholars further affirm that Daniel was written about 163 B.C. at the end of
>> the Machabeean period not in the fifth century B.C.
>> It is your religion that corrupts history, not the historians. Read the
>> historical crap Hebee Armstrong wrote.;-). That wasn't history. That was
>> science fiction. You were taught a load of manure and you believe what your
>> teachers told you. I'm just trying to educate you and even present you with
>> some serious websites, not sectarian bullshit.
>> I'm always hoping that one of these days you will see the daylight. Am I
>> being too optimistic? Your'e making progress since you don't hit the roof
>> anymore when I jab at Hebee. It must be that your esteem for him is
>> evaporating slowly but sure. LOL.
>
>
> Sorry, I still think the world of him. I just enjoy frustrating you and letting
> you make a fool out of yourself. Religion is a discipline, just like "science",
> archaeology, etc. Some people are quite religious over their discipline,
> especially when they take it upon themselves to "correct" the religious.
> "Science" and archaeology are guessing in the dark, the religious have a
> textbook.
>
>
>>

Archaeology is a closed minded science and they threw out the baby
with the bath water!
They have in their hand the evidence but since it does not add to their
theories they throw it out with the pot shards,
when they want a age they just blurt out any thing and have on
way to authenticate the way they age any of their artifacts or
relics.
Though it is quite obvious they are digging in flood debris they still
look for some other explanation of what they are digging in.

But woe to any one that questions their way.
They even have the news media on their side and it just goes
along with the chatter without question.
The Media even goes along with saying the rcc. is Christian.
Will the deception ever end?

Misty,

Misty, of the mist.

lukematon,
20.7.2001 klo 6.35.5920.7.2001
vastaanottaja

John Abrams wrote:

> Re:
> I do not see any 1150 days prophecy in any bible I have read.
> Where did you get that from? Book chapter and verse is needed for that
> please.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J:
> The phrase evenings and mornings refers to the evening sacrifice and he
> morning sacrifice.
> Many believe that the 2300 means 1150 days.
> During 1150 days there would have been 2300 sacrifices.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Snip>
So you contend the something would happen when the 1150 days
would pass?

Daniel 8:9-14
9
Out of one of them came another horn, which started
small but grew in power to the south and to the east
and toward the Beautiful Land.
10
It grew until it reached the host of the heavens, and
it threw some of the starry host down to the earth and
trampled on them.
11
It set itself up to be as great as the Prince of the
host; it took away the daily sacrifice from him, and
the place of his sanctuary was brought low.
12
Because of rebellion, the host [of the saints][1] and
the daily sacrifice were given over to it. It prospered
in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground.
13
Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one
said to him, "How long will it take for the vision to
be fulfilled--the vision concerning the daily sacrifice,
the rebellion that causes desolation, and the surrender
of the sanctuary and of the host that will be trampled
underfoot?"
14
He said to me, "It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings;
then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated."
(foot note)
[12] Or rebellion, the armies

Bible answer to the vision in part;
Daniel 8:23-27
New International Version (NIV)

Daniel 8
23
"In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have
become completely wicked, a stern-faced king, a master
of intrigue, will arise.
24
He will become very strong, but not by his own power.
He will cause astounding devastation and will succeed
in whatever he does. He will destroy the mighty men and
the holy people.
25
He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider
himself superior. When they feel secure, he will
destroy many and take his stand against the Prince of
princes. Yet he will be destroyed, but not by human power.
26
"The vision of the evenings and mornings that has been
given you is true, but seal up the vision, for it concerns
the distant future."
27
I, Daniel, was exhausted and lay ill for several days.
Then I got up and went about the king's business. I was
appalled by the vision; it was beyond understanding.

Was this not talking about the office of the papacy and
the papal Crusades during the "DARK AGES" AKA. THE GREAT
TRIBULATION?
It for sure was talking about Rome in one stage or the other.

Do you have a clue as to when this could be put into the
timeline of history, or the timeline of the bible?
Or in other words does it have a beginning date and and
ending date?

Misty


> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J:
> The evenings and mornings refer to the sacrifces. There was never a time
> when thre were 2300 sacrifices during a period of 2300 days.
> end

Are you not sure that it was the, TIME, of the taking away of the
sacrifices that the passages are pointing to?

Is there not an evening and a morning in each day and could
not the 2300 mean whole day?
I have been muddling this in my mind for more then 20 years
now.

Misty,

end.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Misty, of the mist.

lukematon,
20.7.2001 klo 6.57.4220.7.2001
vastaanottaja
Misty says:

OH so you are taking the word of those that rejected the living
word of God as authorities for translating the Written word of
God?
Isn't this like asking the thief if it has any idea where the
money that was taken, is?

See Verse 11 below; notice it says sacrifice.
IT does not say sacrifice(s)

So I do not think it is a good idea to say it meant
2300 sacrifices.
It is truly saying Day! And these are Prophetic day, which
puts them in the prophetic Key Code of "A day for a year,
or a Year for a day.
Does it not?

Misty,

Uniacke

lukematon,
20.7.2001 klo 7.15.2820.7.2001
vastaanottaja

"Misty, of the mist." <yardh...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3B5800DD...@home.com...
Typical of a pretentious idiot who thinks she can change past history and
the course of history. When are you going to realize that everything you
post is but the product of your own imagination and a misinterpretation of
Scriptures and history. Your mind is infested with superstitions and lies.
You have been taught lies and deceptions and you post lies and deceptions.
Archeology condemns people like you. Your charlatanism is not worth the
shards discarted by diggers.
When are you going to learn that you are peddling but junk on the
newsgroups.
If only you knew what archeology is all about.


John Abrams

lukematon,
20.7.2001 klo 19.18.4520.7.2001
vastaanottaja
Misty says:
OH so you are taking the word of those that rejected the living word of
God as authorities for translating the Written word of God?
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
Do you mean the JEWS?
Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of
circumcision?
2Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the
oracles of God.
-- I don't think you mean the Jews.
Who did you mean??
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
If you don't do research you might as will just pick the one you like
best:
A)Daniel 8:14 :: King James Version (KJV)
Daniel 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred

days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
B)Daniel 8:14 :: New International Version (NIV)Daniel 8:14
He said to me, "It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the
sanctuary will be reconsecrated."
C)Daniel 8:14 :: Darby Translation (DARBY)
Daniel 8:14 And he said unto me, Until two thousand and three hundred
evenings [and] mornings: then shall the sanctuary be vindicated.
D)Daniel 8:14 :: 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)Daniel 8:14
And he said unto me, "Until two thousand and three hundred days; then

shall the sanctuary be cleansed."
-- There are 100 translations to choose from.
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:M

Isn't this like asking the thief if it has any idea where the money
that was taken, is?
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
Great idea!
Only the thief knows where the money is hidden.
We can use truth serum and no more innocent ppl will go to jail and no
guilty ppl. will go free.
No more lawyers or jurys!
kewl
end
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

http://www.thehungersite.com

John Abrams

lukematon,
20.7.2001 klo 20.02.4520.7.2001
vastaanottaja
Re:Was this not talking about the office of the papacy and the papal

Crusades during the "DARK AGES" AKA. THE GREAT TRIBULATION?
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
The tribulation hasn't happened yet.
---25 He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself

superior. When they feel secure, he will destroy many and take his stand
against the Prince of princes (Christ).
Yet he will be destroyed (Armageddon), but NOT by HUMAN power. 26
"The vision of the evenings and mornings that has been given you is
true, but seal up the vision, for it concerns the -distant future."
end
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


1260-1290-1335-2300 days-M

Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Fri, Jul 20, 2001, 10:35am (EDT+4) From:


yardh...@home.com (Misty, of the mist.)

http://www.thehungersite.com

John Abrams

lukematon,
20.7.2001 klo 19.53.3520.7.2001
vastaanottaja
Daniel 8:14
He said to me, "It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the
sanctuary will be reconsecrated." ------

The Jewish "Soncino Commentary", by Dr. Judah J. Slotki, comments on
this verse: "...the numeral refers to the number of times the offerings,
normally brought twice daily, will be omitted, giving a total period of
1,150 days... ."
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
oooooooooooo
RE:

So I do not think it is a good idea to say it meant 2300 sacrifices. It
is truly saying Day! And these are Prophetic day, which puts them in the
prophetic Key Code of "A day for a year, or a Year for a day. Does it
not?
Misty,
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
No.
These scriptures below are 'a day for a year':
Numbers 14:34 After the number of the days in which ye searched the
land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your
iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.---
Ezekiel 4:6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right
side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days:
I have appointed thee each day for a year.-------
Notice that the word -day- is used.
In Daniel 8:14 it says 'evenings and mornings' , not -day.
You cannot produce an 'evenings and mornings for a year' scripture.
There are none.
end
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

http://www.thehungersite.com

John Abrams

lukematon,
20.7.2001 klo 22.13.0720.7.2001
vastaanottaja
Re:

See Verse 11 below; notice it says sacrifice.
IT does not say sacrifice(s)
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
No.
There are 100 translations.
The one below has -sacrifices-.
Do you only use one translation?
If you do only use one translation I -can- find obvious mistakes in it.
If you use more than one, how do you choose which to use??
The oracles of G-d were committed to the Jews. Their translation can be
trusted, except where the Messiah is mentioned.
There they are prejudiced, but prophecy will be fulfilled and they will
weep.....----
Daniel 8:11 :: New King James Version (NKJV)
Daniel 8
11He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him
the -daily- sacrifices were taken away, and the place of His sanctuary
was cast down.-----
Does not daily mean one day?
Research; how many sacrifices did they have a day?
end
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


2300 days

Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Fri, Jul 20, 2001, 10:57am (EDT+4) From:


yardh...@home.com (Misty, of the mist.)

http://www.thehungersite.com

Misty, of the mist.

lukematon,
21.7.2001 klo 8.40.2121.7.2001
vastaanottaja
John Abrams wrote:

Ok, take your imagination as far into the future as far as you like
and you will never be able to interpret Prophecy.

You are missing the one thing that makes it work.

A usable timeline.

even 2 things you are missing the other is the prophetic key.

Thank you for your time.
sorry you ar wasting mine.

Misty,

Misty, of the mist.

lukematon,
21.7.2001 klo 8.47.3321.7.2001
vastaanottaja
John Abrams wrote:

snip>

no but you can produce an 'evening and morning' to produce a day

See Genesis all of chapter one.

As you see in God making prophecy in Numbers and Ezekiel you see God
also giving the key code He uses in making other prophesies.

Does God change?

Yes it does say a day not days as meaning one day equals a year and
if there are more days it also applies to more years inclusive.

Misty,

Misty, of the mist.

lukematon,
21.7.2001 klo 9.18.3221.7.2001
vastaanottaja
John Abrams wrote:

> Misty says:
> OH so you are taking the word of those that rejected the living word of
> God as authorities for translating the Written word of God?
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J:
> Do you mean the JEWS?
> Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of
> circumcision?
> 2Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the
> oracles of God.
> -- I don't think you mean the Jews.
> Who did you mean??

XXXXXX

Yes the Jews or the Sadusees or Pharisees or the Children of Israel or
whom ever was in charge of the temple and Jerusalem at the time Jesus
was rejected as their Messiah when he walked the earth in flesh and blood
as a man.
Yes they were the chosen ones to guard the oracles of God of which they
also added some of there own and was so puffed up they thought they could
do what ever they liked as long as it was within their own laws but failed
to recognize Gods real law.
We christians are entrusted with the grace of God but if we remain luke
warm God is or maybe has spit us out of his mouth and is giving our lot to
someone else just like He did in Choosing His New Jerusalem out of the
gentiles of the world.
I would not even venture a guess as to who the new Christians would be or
of what body they would be chosen from if that is the case.

Those that rejected the Living Word of God also Rejected the Written Word
of God, so they can not be trusted to be the authorities to be translating
The Bible, either the Old Wittness or the New Wittness.


> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J:
> If you don't do research you might as will just pick the one you like
> best:
> A)Daniel 8:14 :: King James Version (KJV)
> Daniel 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred
> days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
> B)Daniel 8:14 :: New International Version (NIV)Daniel 8:14
> He said to me, "It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the
> sanctuary will be reconsecrated."
> C)Daniel 8:14 :: Darby Translation (DARBY)
> Daniel 8:14 And he said unto me, Until two thousand and three hundred
> evenings [and] mornings: then shall the sanctuary be vindicated.
> D)Daniel 8:14 :: 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)Daniel 8:14
> And he said unto me, "Until two thousand and three hundred days; then
> shall the sanctuary be cleansed."
> -- There are 100 translations to choose from.

XXXXXX

yes all of those translations need to be understood and it is up to us to
figure out what the code is to unlock the under meanings of them.
We need to apply bible to understand bible.

> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> RE:M
> Isn't this like asking the thief if it has any idea where the money
> that was taken, is?
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J:
> Great idea!
> Only the thief knows where the money is hidden.
> We can use truth serum and no more innocent ppl will go to jail and no
> guilty ppl. will go free.
> No more lawyers or jurys!
> kewl
> end

XXXXX
Only the Thief and God know.
but by the Holy Spirit God reveals to us his hidden treasures.
Will you keep rejecting what God is offering?

> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
>

As long as the man of sin sits on the throne (pope in the Vatican)
innocent people will be martyred. the whole alleged justice system is under
the control of "The man of Sin".
WE are not yet under the authority of the saints as the bible says one day
it will be.
we are living in the days of the extended Great tribulation the way it
looks to me.
OR we are in the time of the Armageddon.
I have not got it all figured out yet but I am still researching His word
for the answers we need to understands, just what God has for us.

Misty,

John Abrams

lukematon,
21.7.2001 klo 19.38.1921.7.2001
vastaanottaja
Re:
Thank you for your time.
sorry you ar wasting mine.
Misty,
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
You are wrong.
I am not wasting your time.
In this very thread I taught you how a time, times and half a time
equals 1260 days.
After you asked how , I answered and you have since used this
information that I taught to you, again, in this very thread.
It is you that have taught me nothing.
The crime is that you can. You just won't challenge your sacred beliefs.
Had you taught me anything I would post to you everyday that I could for
the rest of my life.
That in the hopes that you would teach me again.
It is too bad that you do not value learning over what you already
believe to be true.......
end
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

1260-1290-1335-2300 days-M

Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Sat, Jul 21, 2001, 12:40pm (EDT+4) From:

John Abrams


http://www.thehungersite.com

Ginger
Nov.17th,1971-Dec.29th,2000

John Abrams

lukematon,
21.7.2001 klo 20.16.4021.7.2001