1260-1290-1335 days
John Abrams
I made a quick overview,(see scriptures below). Sacrifice stopped on a
given day - in the midst of the week- for 1290 days.
75 days later the witnesses start to prophecy- for 1260 days and on the
same day the court is trampled underfoot. 1215 days later the
abomination is set up. 45 days after that is Christ's coming to rule and
the resurrection, on the 1335th day.
end
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Dan 12:11-12 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken
away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a
thousand two hundred and ninety days (1,290 days).Blessed is he that
waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty
days (1,335 days).
Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters
of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto
heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a
time, times, and an half (1,260 days) and when he shall have
accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things
shall be finished.
Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and
shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times
and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times
and the dividing of time ( 1,260 days) .
Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week
(1,260 days): and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice
and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he
shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined
shall be poured upon the desolate.
Rev.11: 1-3:1And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the
angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar,
and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it
not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they
tread under foot forty and two months (1,260 days). 3 And I will give
power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two
hundred and threescore days (1,260 days) clothed in sackcloth.
Misty, of the mist
together. Who can make any sense of that pile of days all
on top of one another?
John Abrams wrote:
> 1260 - 1290 - 1335 days
> I made a quick overview,(see scriptures below). Sacrifice stopped on a
> given day - in the midst of the week- for 1290 days.
The sacrifice stopped, was prophesied in the 70 weeks of
year in
Daniel 9 and that was the 490 year prophecy where He was
cut off in the middle of the last week of years. Not in
the middle of a week as a seven day week.
> 75 days later the witnesses start to prophecy- for 1260 days and on the
> same day the court is trampled underfoot. 1215 days later the
> abomination is set up. 45 days after that is Christ's coming to rule and
> the resurrection, on the 1335th day.
What was your teacher drinking when he taught you that?
It is so wrong and unbiblical.
Don't you know about the keys to prophecy; As a day for a
year, or a year for a day in prophecy?
Look at Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:4-6 and try to understand
from there How God made Prophecy and How He coded it for
those in the know.
Misty,
John Abrams
Bet you can't explain the 1260/1290/1335 days using years.
If you can't , then you have to consider that you may be wrong.
I'll be waitingggggggggggggggggggg for you to try....................
end
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Re: 1260-1290-1335 days
Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Thu, Jul 12, 2001, 7:59am (EDT+4) From:
yardh...@home.com (Misty, of the mist)
John Abrams
There are two chains of thought on this, one group believes the days are
days.
The other group believes the days are years.
Since we are in different groups we will never agree.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Thu, Jul 12, 2001, 7:59am (EDT+4) From:
yardh...@home.com (Misty, of the mist)
James R. Calvert
John Abrams wrote:
> 1260 - 1290 - 1335 days
> I made a quick overview,(see scriptures below). Sacrifice stopped on a
> given day - in the midst of the week- for 1290 days.
> 75 days later the witnesses start to prophecy- for 1260 days and on the
> same day the court is trampled underfoot. 1215 days later the
> abomination is set up. 45 days after that is Christ's coming to rule and
> the resurrection, on the 1335th day.
> end
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
This is my understanding of the 3 time periods of Dan. 12:
1335 days prior to Christ's coming (Dan. 12:12), a blessing is
pronounced on those who wait until this point in time; they are probably
taken to "the wilderness" during the Great Tribulation (Rev. 12:14).
45 days elapse
1290 days prior to Christ's coming (Dan. 12:11), the Beast's armies
surround Jerusalem (Luke 21:20); the abomination of desolation, the
Antichrist, enters the rebuilt Temple and stops the sacrifices (Matt.
24:15; Dan. 12:11).
30 days elapse
1260 days prior to Christ's coming (Dan. 12:7), the Great Tribulation
starts and continues for 3 1/2 years (Dan. 12:7); Jerusalem is tread
under foot by the Gentiles, and the Jews are led away captive into all
nations (Rev. 11:2; Luke 21:24). The two witnesses prophesy during this
last 3 1/2 years (Rev. 11:3).
> Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and
> shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times
> and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times
> and the dividing of time ( 1,260 days).
Daniel 7:25 is referring to papal misrule during the 1260 years of the
church-historic period. This church-historic period has been
interpreted variously as: (1)
529/533-1789/1793 [Elliott], (2) 554-1814 [Worldwide Church of God], (3)
606-1866 [Luther], and (4) 754-2014 [Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown, Com.
on Dan. 7:25].
Each interpretation of the church-historic period is based on different
factors. Elliott set the beginning of the 1260 years with Justinian's
edict acknowledging Pope John II to be the head of the Church. The
Worldwide Church of God apparently set the beginning with the
destruction of the Vandals, Heruli, and Ostrogoths, after Justinian's
recognition of papal supremacy. With Luther, it was "when Phocas
confirmed Justinian's grant" (JFB, Com.). Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown
say that the period most likely began "[in 754] when the temporal
dominion of the popes begun by Pepin's grant of the exarchate of
Ravenna, the kingdom of
the Lombards, and the state of Rome to [pope] Stephen II" (Com., Dan.
9:25).
Of these various interpretations, 554-1814 seems to be the most
reasonable. The last of the Germanic peoples who had brought the
western half of the Roman Empire to the point of extinction were not
"plucked up by the roots" (Dan. 7:8) until 554. By 554, Justinian had
won back much of the west.
> Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week
> (1,260 days): and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice
> and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he
> shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined
> shall be poured upon the desolate.
Daniel 9:27a refers to the work of the Christ: after a ministry of three
and one half years, He caused the sacrifice and the oblation to cease
"by offer[ing] one sacrifice for sins for ever" (Heb. 10:12). Daniel
9:27b refers to the work of the Antichrist: at the beginning of the last
three and one half years, the Antichrist will enter the rebuilt temple
of the Jews, causing the daily sacrifice to "be taken away" (Dan.
12:11).
> Rev.11: 1-3:1And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the
> angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar,
> and them that worship therein.
> 2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it
> not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they
> tread under foot forty and two months (1,260 days). 3 And I will give
> power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two
> hundred and threescore days (1,260 days) clothed in sackcloth.
The 1260 days of the church-historic period "are recapitulated on a
shorter scale analogically during the antichrist's short reign. They
are equivalent to three and a half years" (J.F.B., Com., Rev. 12:6).
The year-day and the day-day theories are both true: "The 1260 years of
papal misrule in the name of Christ may be represented by three and a
half years of open Antichristianity and persecution [just] before the
millennium" (J.F.B., Com., Dan. 7:25).
Besq
> John Abrams wrote:
>
> > 1260 - 1290 - 1335 days
> > I made a quick overview,(see scriptures below). Sacrifice stopped on a
> > given day - in the midst of the week- for 1290 days.
> > 75 days later the witnesses start to prophecy- for 1260 days and on the
> > same day the court is trampled underfoot. 1215 days later the
> > abomination is set up. 45 days after that is Christ's coming to rule and
> > the resurrection, on the 1335th day.
> > end
> > oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
>
> This is my understanding of the 3 time periods of Dan. 12:
>
> 1335 days prior to Christ's coming (Dan. 12:12), a blessing is
> pronounced on those who wait until this point in time; they are probably
> taken to "the wilderness" during the Great Tribulation (Rev. 12:14).
>
> 45 days elapse
>
> 1290 days prior to Christ's coming (Dan. 12:11), the Beast's armies
> surround Jerusalem (Luke 21:20); the abomination of desolation, the
> Antichrist, enters the rebuilt Temple and stops the sacrifices (Matt.
> 24:15; Dan. 12:11).
>
> 30 days elapse
30 days for the holy people to escape.
Misty, of the mist.
of the prophesies of days all into one prophecy and that is
for sure not the way to go.
the 1260 day prophecy one prophecy, and the 2300 day P. is
a different one while the 1335 is yet a different one.
The seventy weeks of years also is by itself but, some of
these may be inside the realms of the other longer ones.
It is a matter of starting dates and ending dates.
Would you like to make a timeline with me to see how this
happens?
During my study of prophecy the main thing is to have a
starting date and an ending date.
However there is one prophecy that has neither a starting
date nor and ending date. a.e. the Rapture. This one is so
special it has to be an on - - - well lets say if you want
to get into it we can talk.
Misty,
John Abrams wrote:
> Re:
> There are two chains of thought on this, one group believes the days are
> days.
> The other group believes the days are years.
> Since we are in different groups we will never agree.
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> 1260-1290-1335 days
>
> Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Thu, Jul 12, 2001, 7:59am (EDT+4) From:
> yardh...@home.com (Misty, of the mist)
> OH yes it is very quick and it is most inaccurate and run together. Who
> can make any sense of that pile of days all on top of one another?
> John Abrams wrote:
> 1260 - 1290 - 1335 days
> I made a quick overview,(see scriptures below). Sacrifice stopped on a
> given day - in the midst of the week- for 1290 days.
> The sacrifice stopped, was prophesied in the 70 weeks of year in
> Daniel 9 and that was the 490 year prophecy where He was cut off in the
> middle of the last week of years. Not in the middle of a week as a seven
> day week.
you have put 2 prophesies together in the above paragraph.
How did you come to the conclusion that the 1290 days was
involved with the 70 weeks of years?
> 75 days later the witnesses start to prophecy- for 1260 days and on the
> same day the court is trampled underfoot. 1215 days later the
> abomination is set up. 45 days after that is Christ's coming to rule and
> the resurrection, on the 1335th day.
where is the 1215 days prophecy???
> What was your teacher drinking when he taught you that?
> It is so wrong and unbiblical.
> Don't you know about the keys to prophecy; As a day for a year, or a
> year for a day in prophecy?
> Look at Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:4-6 and try to understand from there
> How God made Prophecy and How He coded it for those in the know.
> Misty,
> end
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo Dan 12:11-12 And from
> the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the
> abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two
> hundred and ninety days (1,290 days).Blessed is he that waiteth, and
> cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days (1,335
> days).
What date did you put on the day the daily sacrifice was
taken away?
> Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters
> of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto
> heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a
> time, times, and an half (1,260 days) and when he shall have
> accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things
> shall be finished.
How did you get 1260 from the "time, times, and a half time.
prophecy?
> Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and
> shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times
> and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times
> and the dividing of time ( 1,260 days) .
Same question as above, How?
> Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week
> (1,260 days): and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice
> and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he
> shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined
> shall be poured upon the desolate.
Daniel 9:27
27
He will confirm a covenant with many for one `seven.'[1]
In the middle of the `seven'[2] he will put an end to
sacrifice and offering. And on a wing [of the temple]
he will set up an abomination that causes desolation,
until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.[3]
"[4]
(foot notes)
[27] Or `week'
[27] Or `week'
[27] Or it
[27] Or And one who causes desolation will
come upon the pinnacle of the abominable [temple],
until the end that is decreed is poured out on
the desolated [city]
I do not see any,"1260" days in the bible passage you are
trying to quote. Who gave you authority to desicrate the
WORD like this?
With this kind of bible study you will never make head nor
detail out of it, nor will any one that reads your post
know what you are talking about. Get a clue!
> Rev.11: 1-3:1And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the
> angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar,
> and them that worship therein.
> 2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it
> not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they
> tread under foot forty and two months (1,260 days). 3 And I will give
> power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two
> hundred and threescore days (1,260 days) clothed in sackcloth.
> http://www.thehungersite.com
UMM, you missed the "starting date and the finish date for
the prophecy there friend.
Do you know who the 2 wittnesses are, besides the 2 olive
trees and the two lampstands? Any guesses?
Misty,
Misty, of the mist.
I will not say all I know so you can ask some questions
to fill in that which I did not make clear.
After all this is a discussion.
First the Time, times and half time;
Yes this is one of the ways the bible gives us the (1260)
day prophecy.
and it has a starting date of when the man of sin is revealed.
538 AD. to 1798 AD.. other thing were going on during that
prophetic time also see Revelation 12 and 13.
Next should be 70 weeks of year:
A little math, 70 X seven days of the week,
70 X 7 looks like 490 years. IT has a starting date,
see Daniel 9:25;
25
"Know and understand this: From the issuing of
the decree[1] to restore and rebuild Jerusalem
until the Anointed One,[2] the ruler, comes,
there will be seven `sevens,' and sixty-two
`sevens.' It will be rebuilt with streets and
a trench, but in times of trouble.
(foot notes)
[25] Or word
[25] Or an anointed one; also in verse 26
OK, Bible history shows us that that date was the end of the
70 years captivity of the children of israel (the 2 southern tribes)
(606/605 BC. to 537/536 BC. in the timeline)
But it was not until 457 that the decree went out and the
children started to go back to rebuild Jerusalem, but under
duress and great opposition.
So 457 plus 490 years should bring us to approximately 34 AD.
3 and 1/2 years after Jesus was cut off form his people,
until the one was sent out to choose the new jerusalem form
all people including from the gentiles.
There is no year zero so one year is lost for the first
year.
You did not mention the 2300 days of Daniel 8:14.
This prophecy also started on or about the time of
Rome was just and infant approximately 168 BC. and starting
to flex it mussels and Growing in world strength so, count
off 2300 minus one for the change of the
Millennium form BC. to AD and we come up with a prophecy not
fulfilled as of today's date, (July 13 2001)
168 BC. - 2300 = 2131 AD.
The 1290 day prophecy;
Starting date When Jesus was crucified, or when Jerusalem
was sacked by Rome in 70 AD. either one will not let us
declare that that prophecy has been fulfilled to date for we
do not have the finish date.
Daniel 12:11
"From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished
and the abomination that causes desolation is set up,
there will be 1,290 days.
The 1335 Days prophecy;
Here again we are missing both the starting date and the
finish date.
Daniel 12:12
Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the
end of the 1,335 days.
(NIV BIBLE)
Misty,
John Abrams
Do you know who the 2 wittnesses are, besides the 2 olive trees and the
two lampstands? Any guesses?
1) Enoch and Elijah - nope.
No one has ascended into heaven.
They answer:
But Enoch was translated!
So was Joseph's body after Israel left Egypt.
What about Elijah?
He wrote a letter 10 years after he was taken up in a whirlwind. Not
him.
2) America and Britain - Doubt it - but since I came up with this a long
time ago, and still can't get it out of my head, I'll mention it.
3) Old Testament and New Testament - doubt it very much.
4) Two men chosen by G-d to witness in the last days - best guess.
Besides, they may be Jews, even Rabbi's.
-MUST- they be Christians?
The way my quick chart lined up , the court is trampled and on the same
day they start their witness. Sounds like the court being trampled set
them off - on their mission.
end
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
1260-1290-1335 days
Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Fri, Jul 13, 2001, 8:44am (EDT+4) From:
yardh...@home.com (Misty, of the mist.)
John Abrams
Unlike Valerie, I don't have a 'calling to teach', and do not know
everything.
Anything anyone wants to discuss, for as long as they want to discuss it
- bring it on!
I am the type to beat a dead horse - into powder.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:
j:
Sure.
I think that all of the answers are out there.
But no one has put them together.
And you never know who has a piece to the puzzle.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:
J:
Sacrifice stopped for 1290 days.
75 days later on the 75th day after the sacrifices are stopped the outer
court will be trampled on , on that very same 75th day, two witnesses
will speak out (start prophesying) because of their outrage over the
court being trampled on.
1290 days after the sacrifices are stopped the abomination will be set
up, this will be the 1290th day since the sacrifices were stopped and it
will be the 1215th day since the two started witnessing.
The abomination now is set up on the 1290th day since the sacrifices
were stopped, this will stay set up until Christ comes on the 1335th
day- which is 45 days after the abomination was set up.
These last 45 days are the days 'according to the days Israel was
brought out of Egypt' during which time G-d will show 'marvelous things'
(Valerie's) .
Am I right? I don't know.....
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:
J:
Time = 1 year.
1 year = 360 days
360 days = 12 x 30
12 months x 30 days = 1 time.
Times = 2 years
Half a time = 6 months or 180 days.
end
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
At the 1290th day the abomination will be set up.
The sacrifice stopped, was prophesied in the 70 weeks of year in Daniel
9 and that was the 490 year prophecy where He was cut off in the middle
of the last week of years. Not in the middle of a week as a seven day
week.
you have put 2 prophesies together in the above paragraph. How did you
come to the conclusion that the 1290 days was involved with the 70 weeks
of years?
75 days later the witnesses start to prophecy- for 1260 days and on the
same day the court is trampled underfoot. 1215 days later the
abomination is set up. 45 days after that is Christ's coming to rule and
the resurrection, on the 1335th day.
Re: 1260-1290-1335 days
Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Fri, Jul 13, 2001, 8:44am (EDT+4) From:
yardh...@home.com (Misty, of the mist.)
John Abrams
1335 days prior to Christ's coming (Dan. 12:12), a blessing is
pronounced on those who wait until this point in time; they are probably
taken to "the wilderness" during the Great Tribulation (Rev. 12:14).
J:
That is fascinating. I never considered an anti-date, where the waiting
was to the 1335th day before the event. I always thought of the 1335th
day as the day of the blessing- Christ's coming and the resurrection,
rewards.
I will study this.....
end
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo 45 days elapse
John Abrams
This is my understanding of the 3 time periods of Dan. 12: 1335 days
prior to Christ's coming (Dan. 12:12), a blessing is pronounced on those
who wait until this point in time; they are probably taken to "the
wilderness" during the Great Tribulation (Rev. 12:14).
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Daniel 11
hundred and ninety days.
12
-Since the 1290 days are mentioned immediately prior to the 1335th day,
I see these things happening at the end of these dates not the
beginning. 1290 coming/ happening before 1335. You have the 'event' of
the 1335th day verse coming on day 'one' ,the 'first' day, not on the
last or 1335th day.
And the event of the preceding verse, the 1290 days, coming one the
'last' or 1290th day.
I believe that the blessing is the resurrection to eternal life on the
last or 1335th day.
What blessing do you see coming on the 'first' of the 1335 days??? The
saints sealed?
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo RE:
45 days elapse
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
Have you read Valerie's argument for the 45 day coming at the end of
these days?
It is pretty strong.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:
surround Jerusalem (Luke 21:20); the abomination of desolation, the
Antichrist, enters the rebuilt Temple and stops the sacrifices (Matt.
24:15; Dan. 12:11).
J:
I see the 45 days coming at the end, thanks to Valerie. So the first
event , as I see it, would be on the first of the 1290 days, when the
sacrifices are stopped.
Q?:Will it be the Beast or the False Prophet that enters the Temple? I
believe it will be the False Prophet , the Anti-Christ, or more bluntly,
the Last Pope.
And owing to his help in bringing down the Berlin Wall ,etc. Which
allowed Europe to unite. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if 'he' is the
current Pope. (The White horse does come before the Red (Beast) in the
seals.)
When the sacrifices are stopped -must- he enter the Temple at that time?
Could not this verse---
hundred and ninety days.
---be read like this:
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, there
shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days, -then- and the
abomination that maketh desolate set up. --????
As in:
'And from the time that (the daily sacrifice shall be taken away) I get
to work, and the (abomination that maketh desolate set up) testing of
the last widget , there shall be ( a thousand two hundred and ninety
days) 8 hours.'
Q?:Does the Anti-Christ himself stop the sacrifices, or is this done by
his 'agents'?
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:
30 days elapse
(30 days for the holy people to escape.)
starts and continues for 3 1/2 years (Dan. 12:7); Jerusalem is tread
under foot by the Gentiles, and the Jews are led away captive into all
nations (Rev. 11:2; Luke 21:24). The two witnesses prophesy during this
last 3 1/2 years (Rev. 11:3).
J:
Are this days precise?
On a single day - the very same day - Jerusalem will be tread under foot
-and- the tribulation will start -and- the two witnesses will begin to
prophesy -and- the church will fly into/ or reach , the wilderness?
Do you see all of these events happening on the same day?
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:
both true: "The 1260 years of papal misrule in the name of Christ may be
represented by three and a half years of open Antichristianity and
persecution [just] before the millennium" (J.F.B., Com., Dan. 7:25).
J:
I have more 'open' theories than even I know of - and have assumed that
eventually I would choose either the days are days or the days are years
theory as being correct.
This theory ' The year-day and the day-day theories are both true' -
gives me a headache.
I wish someone could show me one single dual prophecy. I know of none.
Maybe I am just to stubborn to see the 'truth'. But I know of none.
end
John Abrams
Ginger
Nov.17th,1971-Dec.29th,2000
John Abrams
This is my understanding of the 3 time periods of Dan. 12: 1335 days
prior to Christ's coming (Dan. 12:12), a blessing is pronounced on those
who wait until this point in time; they are probably taken to "the
wilderness" during the Great Tribulation (Rev. 12:14).
J:
Daniel 11
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the
abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two
hundred and ninety days.
12
Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and
five and thirty days.
-Since the 1290 days are mentioned immediately prior to the 1335th day,
I see these things happening at the end of these dates not the
'one' ,the 'first' day.
And the event of the preceding verse, the 1290 days coming one the
'last' or 1290th day.
I believe that the blessing is the resurrection to eternal life on the
last or 1335th day.
What blessing do you see coming on the 'first' of the 1335 days??? The
saints sealed?
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:
45 days elapse
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
Have you read Valerie's argument for the 45 day coming at the end of
these days?
It is pretty strong.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:
surround Jerusalem (Luke 21:20); the abomination of desolation, the
Antichrist, enters the rebuilt Temple and stops the sacrifices (Matt.
24:15; Dan. 12:11).
J:
I see the 45 days coming at the end, thanks to Valerie. So the first
stopped.
believe it will be the False Prophet , the Anti-Christ, or more bluntly,
the Last Pope.
And owing to his help in bringing down the Berlin Wall ,etc. Which
Pope. The White horse comes before the Red in the seals. When the
sacrifices are stopped -must- he enter the Temple at that time? Could
not this verse---
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the
abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two
hundred and ninety days.
---be read like this:
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, there
shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days, -then- and the
abomination that maketh desolate set up. --???? As in:
And from the time that (the daily sacrifice shall be taken away) I get
to work, and the (abomination that maketh desolate set up) testing of
days) 8 hours.
---be read like this:
'agents'?
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:
30 days elapse
starts and continues for 3 1/2 years (Dan. 12:7); Jerusalem is tread
under foot by the Gentiles, and the Jews are led away captive into all
nations (Rev. 11:2; Luke 21:24). The two witnesses prophesy during this
last 3 1/2 years (Rev. 11:3).
J:
Are this days precise?
On a single day - the very same day - Jerusalem will be tread under foot
-and- the tribulation will start -and- the two witnesses will begin to
prophesy -and- the church will fly into/ or reach , the wilderness?
RE:
both true: "The 1260 years of papal misrule in the name of Christ may be
represented by three and a half years of open Antichristianity and
persecution [just] before the millennium" (J.F.B., Com., Dan. 7:25).
J:
I have more 'open' theories than even I know of - and assumed that
John Abrams
This is my understanding of the 3 time periods of Dan. 12: 1335 days
prior to Christ's coming (Dan. 12:12), a blessing is pronounced on those
who wait until this point in time; they are probably taken to "the
wilderness" during the Great Tribulation (Rev. 12:14).
J:
Daniel 11
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the
abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two
hundred and ninety days.
12
Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and
five and thirty days.
-Since the 1290 days are mentioned immediately prior to the 1335th day,
I see these things happening at the end of these dates not the
beginning. You have the 'event' of the 1335th day verse coming on day
'one' ,the 'first' day.
And the event of the preceding verse, the 1290 days coming one the
'last' or 1290th day.
I believe that the blessing is the resurrection to eternal life on the
last or 1335th day.
What blessing do you see coming on the 'first' of the 1335 days??? The
saints sealed?
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:
45 days elapse
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
these days?
It is pretty strong.
Revelation 15:1And I saw another sign in heaven, great and -marvellous-,
seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the
wrath of God.
Micah 7:15According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt
will I shew unto him -marvellous- things.
Exodus 16:1The whole Israelite community set out from Elim and came to
the Desert of Sin, which is between Elim and Sinai, on the fifteenth day
of the second month after they had come out of Egypt.
-Second month, 15th day= 45 days.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:
1290 days prior to Christ's coming (Dan. 12:11), the Beast's armies
surround Jerusalem (Luke 21:20); the abomination of desolation, the
Antichrist, enters the rebuilt Temple and stops the sacrifices (Matt.
24:15; Dan. 12:11).
J:
I see the 45 days coming at the end, thanks to Valerie. So the first
stopped.
starts and continues for 3 1/2 years (Dan. 12:7); Jerusalem is tread
under foot by the Gentiles, and the Jews are led away captive into all
nations (Rev. 11:2; Luke 21:24). The two witnesses prophesy during this
last 3 1/2 years (Rev. 11:3).
J:
Are this days precise?
On a single day - the very same day - Jerusalem will be tread under foot
-and- the tribulation will start -and- the two witnesses will begin to
prophesy -and- the church will fly into/ or reach , the wilderness?
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:
both true: "The 1260 years of papal misrule in the name of Christ may be
represented by three and a half years of open Antichristianity and
persecution [just] before the millennium" (J.F.B., Com., Dan. 7:25).
John Abrams
Have you read Valerie's argument for the -45- days coming at the -end-
of these days?
It is pretty strong.
Here it is, you will understand:
Revelation 15:1And I saw another sign in heaven, great and -marvellous-,
seven angels having the seven -last- plagues; for in them is filled up
the wrath of God.
Micah 7:15According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt
will I shew unto him -marvellous- things.
Exodus 16:1The whole Israelite community set out from Elim and came to
the Desert of Sin, which is between Elim and Sinai, on the fifteenth day
of the second month after they had come out of Egypt.
-Second month, 15th day= 45 days.
Last 45 days: last 7 plagues
Q?: Many believe that the (last) Day of the Lord will last for one year.
That is possible.
Right now I lean toward it lasting only - one day.
Could it last 45 days?
I have the strong gut feeling that everything will simply fall into
place, if we let it.
Like manna, each piece of the puzzle descending into its assigned
lot.....can almost see it......
John Abrams
.....one thousand one hundred and fifty days....
In ancient Israel how many sacrifices were offered each day? An
evening and a morning sacrifice?
Were there days when more than two were offered in a single day?
Were there days when less than two were offered in a single day?
Were there days when none were offered in a single day?
If the 2300 means 2300 'sacrifices' , depending on when this time
began, it could cover (mean) 2300 days; 1150 days; 1260 days? 1290 days?
etc....???
If 2 were offered a day, and 0 were offered on the Sabbath x a 30 day
month;
one month of sacrifices would contain:
approximately: 48 sacrifices in 30 days;
not -60-.
Was it possible, or will it be possible to have 2300 sacrifices which
occur during a period of '1260' (etc.) days???
I have been having trouble finding the accurate information needed to
answer these questions.
Two thousand three hundred 'sacrifices'?
(Gotta get back to reading scriptures from the Book, and get offline
once and awhile)
BTW I just read this at another site:
'The 1290 days refer to the first half of the 7, and the 1335 days refer
to the second half.'
.....never considered that....another 'headache'.....
Besq
Here's something else: Suppose it is time added on to the beginning to give
those who are going to "flee" time to flee. Those who are in Israel can go
where they have to go in a matter of days but in other parts of the world,
people have to get what they're taking with them, gather together, arrange
transport and get where they are going. That's why it says "when you see
these things" etc., you know its time.
Misty, of the mist.
kind.
Or we, must find a way to get the starting date.
~ ~ ~
M
I will take your days prophesies as they seem to appear
in the bible, as close as I understand when they appear
anyway.
Daniel 7:25
25
He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints
and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints
will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time.[1]
[25] Or for a year, two years and half a year
Question; When would the, time, times and half a time,
begin?
Ans; When the man of sin is revealed.
2 Thessalonians 2
1
Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our
being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers,
2
not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy,
report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that
the day of the Lord has already come.
3
Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will
not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of
lawlessness[1] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.
4
He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that
is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up
in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
(Foot note)
[3] Some manuscripts sin
Was the man of sin Revealed?
Yes when the man of the Roman Religious sect took the throne
of the Emperor and declared himself to be the papa, or the
big man of religious world and the replacement of God.
AKA the first pope, to sit on the throne.
The 2300 evenings and mornings was to start?
According to Daniel 8:19-27, IT looks like that is talking
about Alexander the Great of Greek nation. when it was in world power.
I can not find a starting date for this 2300 day, (evenings
and morning) as of yet according to the Daniel 8 passages.
some say that the stating date may be when the decree to
rebuild Jerusalem went out was the starting date but it is
very hard to decipher from that text.
I do not see any 1150 days prophecy in any bible I have
read.
Where did you get that from? Book chapter and verse is
needed for that please.
All that sacrifices carp is pure conjecture and has no biblical
thread to its application to Prophecy fulfillment.
The 1290 days prophecy has both a starting Date and a fulfillment
date
See Daniel 12:11
11
"From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the
abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be
1,290 days.
When was the daily sacrifice abolished?
Was it when Jesus died and the curtain was torn from top to
bottom or was it 70 AD. when Rome sacked Jerusalem?
When was the Abomination that causes desolation set up?
The 1335 days prophecy;
Does not appear to have a starting date at all
See Daniel 12:12
12
Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the
1,335 days.
The 1260 days prophecy;
This appears to be the same time as the time, times and
half a time, and the 42 months and the 3 1/2 days, of
Daniel and Revelation.
these prophetic time periods are shown in Daniel 7 and 12.
Revelation 11, 12, and 13.
They all appear to be showing the different part that would
be taking place in the Great TRibulation.
John Abrams wrote:
> ...two thousand three hundred evenings and mornings....
> ......one thousand one hundred and fifty days....
>
> In ancient Israel how many sacrifices were offered each day? An
> evening and a morning sacrifice?
> Were there days when more than two were offered in a single day?
> Were there days when less than two were offered in a single day?
> Were there days when none were offered in a single day?
>
> If the 2300 means 2300 'sacrifices' , depending on when this time
> began, it could cover (mean) 2300 days; 1150 days; 1260 days? 1290 days?
> etc....???
> If 2 were offered a day, and 0 were offered on the Sabbath x a 30 day
> month;
> one month of sacrifices would contain:
> approximately: 48 sacrifices in 30 days;
> not -60-.
> Was it possible, or will it be possible to have 2300 sacrifices which
> occur during a period of '1260' (etc.) days???
> I have been having trouble finding the accurate information needed to
> answer these questions.
>
> Two thousand three hundred 'sacrifices'?
>
> (Gotta get back to reading scriptures from the Book, and get offline
> once and awhile)
>
> BTW I just read this at another site:
>
> 'The 1290 days refer to the first half of the 7, and the 1335 days refer
> to the second half.'
prove it by bible scripture not what someone else says!
Misty,
>
> ......never considered that....another 'headache'.....
John Abrams
Here's something else: Suppose it is time added on to the beginning to
give those who are going to "flee" time to flee.
J:
Josephus wrote of a voice heard throughout the city saying ,' Its time
to go'.
The Christians left, then Jerusalem was destroyed.
If this is true, that same thing may happen again. Probably on a Holy
Day.
The woman flys into he wildernes for 1260 days. Does that count start
from the day they leave or the day they arrive?
There is also 30 days- 1290-1260=30.
Perhaps they will flee during this 30.....
end
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
1260-1290-1335-2300 days-JRC
Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Sun, Jul 15, 2001, 8:44pm (EDT+4) From:
Besqa*ns*@earthlink.net (Besq)
James R. Calvert
"Misty, of the mist." wrote:
> Daniel 7:25
> He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints
> and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints
> will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time.[1]
> [25] Or for a year, two years and half a year
> Question; When would the, time, times and half a time,
> begin?
> Ans; When the man of sin is revealed.
> 2 Thessalonians 2
Daniel 7:25 and 2 Thessalonians 2:2-4 are separate prophecies referring
to separate events. Daniel 7:25 refers to papal misrule between ancient
and modern times. 2 Thess. 2:2-4 refers to papal misrule during the
last three and one half years of the present age. Notice that the
individual referred to in 2 Thess. 2:2-4, or the last Pope, will be
alive at the second coming of Chirst (verse 8).
> Was the man of sin Revealed?
> Yes when the man of the Roman Religious sect took the throne
> of the Emperor and declared himself to be the papa, or the
> big man of religious world and the replacement of God.
> AKA the first pope, to sit on the throne.
Even in his day, the apostle Paul said that "the mystery of iniquity
doth already work" (2 Thess. 2:7); but he also said that the "man of
sin" would not be revealed until "the restrainer" is taken out of the
way. The man of sin is the final Pope. The restrainer is Michael who
is presently restraining the demonic forces wishing to destroy Israel
(Dan. 10:21; 12:1). Once Michael is taken out of the way, the man of
sin will sit in the temple of God (2 Thess. 2:4), and Gentiles shall
tread the holy city under foot for 42 months (Rev. 11:2). The 42 months
of Rev. 11:2 constitute the Great Tribulation.
> The 2300 evenings and mornings was to start?
> According to Daniel 8:19-27, IT looks like that is talking
> about Alexander the Great of Greek nation. when it was in world power.
> I can not find a starting date for this 2300 day, (evenings
> and morning) as of yet according to the Daniel 8 passages.
> some say that the stating date may be when the decree to
> rebuild Jerusalem went out was the starting date but it is
> very hard to decipher from that text.
> I do not see any 1150 days prophecy in any bible I have
> read.
> Where did you get that from? Book chapter and verse is
> needed for that please.
> All that sacrifices carp is pure conjecture and has no biblical
> thread to its application to Prophecy fulfillment.
Does any of Daniel 8 go beyond the time of Antiochus Epiphanes?
> The 1290 days prophecy has both a starting Date and a fulfillment
> date
> See Daniel 12:11
> 11
> "From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the
> abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be
> 1,290 days.
> When was the daily sacrifice abolished?
> Was it when Jesus died and the curtain was torn from top to
> bottom or was it 70 AD. when Rome sacked Jerusalem?
> When was the Abomination that causes desolation set up?
The prophecy from Daniel 11:40 onward concerns "the time of the end."
"And at that time ... there shall be a time of trouble such as never
was" (Dan. 12:1). The "abomination that maketh desolate" shall be set
up at the time of the end--not before.
This prophesied time of the end will be a time of great apostasy, a time
of "falling away" (2 Thess. 2:3). It will probably be a time of great
persecution by the antichristian forces that are now amassing. In
Daniel 12:12, therefore, some kind of blessing is given to those who
have not fallen away 1335 days before the end. 1290 days before the
end, the reinstituted sacrifices of the rebuilt temple shall be "taken
away" and the "abomination that maketh desolate set up [the Antichrist
Pope in the rebuilt Temple]" (Dan. 12:11). 30 days later, the Great
Tribulation will begin and last for 1260 days (Dan. 12:7). This is why
Christ instructed those in Judea who see the Antichrist in the temple to
"flee into the mountains" (Matt. 24:15-16).
> The 1260 days prophecy;
> This appears to be the same time as the time, times and
> half a time, and the 42 months and the 3 1/2 days, of
> Daniel and Revelation.
> these prophetic time periods are shown in Daniel 7 and 12.
> Revelation 11, 12, and 13.
> They all appear to be showing the different part that would
> be taking place in the Great TRibulation.
In Matthew 24:3, Christ is specifically asked: "What shall be the sign
of thy coming, and of the end of the age?" Notice that His coming is
specifically equated in this verse with the end of the present age. He
says that the end of the age will be preceded by the appearance of a
desolating abomination in a holy place in Judea. And He says that we
can understand what He is referring to through Daniel the prophet
(verses 15-16). Daniel says all of this will occur in a place where
daily sacrifices were being offered (Dan. 12:11). Now none of these
things have ever happened since the prophecy was uttered by Christ; they
are all yet future: the temple must be rebuilt, sacrifices must be
reinstituted, and the Antichrist must appear to stop the sacrifices and
proclaim himself God (2 Thess. 2:4), regardless of all preterist
interpretations.
John Abrams
(2 Thess.2:7); but he also said that the "man of sin" would not be
revealed until "the restrainer" is taken out of the way. The man of sin
is the final Pope. The restrainer is Michael who is presently
restraining the demonic forces wishing to destroy Israel (Dan. 10:21;
12:1). Once Michael is taken out of the way, the man of sin will sit in
the temple of God (2 Thess. 2:4),
Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince
which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time
of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same
time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that
shall be found written in the book.---------
How is Michael taken out of the way (how? by whom?) and at the same
time he 'stands up' ??
end
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
1260-1290-1335-2300 days-JRC
Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Mon, Jul 16, 2001, 12:17pm (EDT-3) From:
jame...@pacbell.com (James R. Calvert)
Misty, of the mist.
Valerie but she refused to move from her position of flight
and come down to earth and right understanding of making a
timeline for all of this to be put in perspective.
Any one can quote bible passages, but that only is a reference
for adding meaning to something discussed.
If the one posting the bible passages can have them add to
a timeline, either Bible timeline or history timeline, then
it is very easy to check off just when this or that prophecy
is fulfilled or not.
John Abrams wrote:
> J:
> Have you read Valerie's argument for the -45- days coming at the -end-
> of these days?
> It is pretty strong.
Even if it did come at that time, all it shows is a, so what?
> Here it is, you will understand:
>
> Revelation 15:1And I saw another sign in heaven, great and -marvellous-,
> seven angels having the seven -last- plagues; for in them is filled up
> the wrath of God.
When is the starting date? Or is it just a bible quote thrown
out here to show someone can quote the bible?
>
> Micah 7:15According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt
> will I shew unto him -marvellous- things.
>
> Exodus 16:1The whole Israelite community set out from Elim and came to
> the Desert of Sin, which is between Elim and Sinai, on the fifteenth day
> of the second month after they had come out of Egypt.
>
> -Second month, 15th day= 45 days.
>
> Last 45 days: last 7 plagues
That is a really long assumption, but means very little. (? ? ? )
>
> Q?: Many believe that the (last) Day of the Lord will last for one year.
> That is possible.
> Right now I lean toward it lasting only - one day.
> Could it last 45 days?
How is this assumption made?
>
> I have the strong gut feeling that everything will simply fall into
> place, if we let it.
IT will fall into place much better if you can put it in
a timeline of some kind.
The prophesies are under code, a simple code that God used
when He made some of the earlier Prophesies.
See Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:4-6.
Or problem is to know when to apply the keys of the above
passages, to the prophesies we are trying to make sense of.
Just dangling passages out there all by them selves is most
meaningless, unless they are put in perspective.
If you do make a bible timeline and superimpose it over a
history timeline You may well see some or many prophesies
fulfilled.
Some prophesies do not have a beginning date nor a ending
date, such as the "RAPTURE". So where would this fit in a
timeline? Answer it is an on going prophecy and it is still
going on today as it did over 1900 years ago, when Jesus
came out of that Grave and talked to Mary Magdala and she
became the first one to believe after His resurrection.
Misty,
Misty, of the mist.
Besq wrote:
If it is talking about the time to flee; may I suggest that it was a coded
message. The Christians understood the message and got out of
Jerusalem long before it happened, but the Jews rejected the
writings of the "Way" and paid no attention to it and were
caught up in the holocaust of that time just like they got
caught up in the holocaust of Hitler's Annyalations of the
Jews.
Misty,
Misty, of the mist.
James R. Calvert wrote:
>
> "Misty, of the mist." wrote:
>
>
>> Daniel 7:25
>
>
>
>> He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints
>> and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints
>> will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time.[1]
>> [25] Or for a year, two years and half a year
>
>
>
>> Question; When would the, time, times and half a time,
>> begin?
>
>
>
>> Ans; When the man of sin is revealed.
>
>
>
>> 2 Thessalonians 2
>
>
>
> Daniel 7:25 and 2 Thessalonians 2:2-4 are separate prophecies referring
> to separate events.
Prophesies of the Old Witness are explained in the words of
the New Witness!
So, yes they are both talking about the same time period, just
as the are much further explained in Revelation 11, 12, and 13.
> Daniel 7:25 refers to papal misrule between ancient
> and modern times.
Of which has a beginning date and a ending date as prophesied
in the 3 1/2 PROPHETIC YEARS it would be in power
There are 42 months, in 3 1/2 years and there are also
1260 days in in 42 months, when using a 30 day month.
> 2 Thess. 2:2-4 refers to papal misrule during the
> last three and one half years of the present age.
How do you get that out of there? Do you know the
three ad one half years are a prophetic time, and need
to be decoded by the bible itself?
> Notice that the
> individual referred to in 2 Thess. 2:2-4, or the last Pope, will be
> alive at the second coming of Chirst (verse 8).
>
Any reference to a pope is referring to his office and not the
individual, other then the first one that was revealed when
the first one took the seat of authority on or about 538 AD.
And there was a person in that seat for the prophesied "time
times and a half time, or the prophetic 3 1/2 years.
That lasted for the 1260 literal year that collimated with
the arrest and imprisonment of the pope on or about 1798.
You do the math.
>
>> Was the man of sin Revealed?
>> Yes when the man of the Roman Religious sect took the throne
>> of the Emperor and declared himself to be the papa, or the
>> big man of religious world and the replacement of God.
>> AKA the first pope, to sit on the throne.
>
>
>
> Even in his day, the apostle Paul said that "the mystery of iniquity
> doth already work" (2 Thess. 2:7); but he also said that the "man of
> sin" would not be revealed until "the restrainer" is taken out of the
> way.
The man of sin is the final Pope?
Who was the first pope God's immaculate messenger that was
attempting to take the place of God?
> The man of sin is the final Pope. The restrainer is Michael who
> is presently restraining the demonic forces wishing to destroy Israel
> (Dan. 10:21; 12:1).
Where was Michael during the Papal Crusades or Hitler's Crusades.
No Michael was taken out of the way many many years ago.
It is God that allowed that Great Tribulation to take place,
and attempt to put an end to the christians or the "saints".
and it was God that let Hitler attempt to put an end to the
Jews during his Holocaust blitz.
So, realize God is in charge and did and will continue to let
his prophesies unfold as history unfolds.
> Once Michael is taken out of the way, the man of
> sin will sit in the temple of God (2 Thess. 2:4), and Gentiles shall
> tread the holy city under foot for 42 months (Rev. 11:2). The 42 months
> of Rev. 11:2 constitute the Great Tribulation.
>
Ask any Catholic and they will tell you that the pope is as
God on earth when speaking excathedra.
What is the New Holy City? Is it not the New Christian body
of BElievers? yes it is and why did Rome throw the Christians
to the lions? And why is the Rcc still using the Inquisition to
Kill heretics or Christians? Do not think for one minute that
Rcc is Christian by any standards.
It is "ANTICHRISTIAN, and has been form the beginning of it
inception even before it was the Roman Papacy.
That is why God Written word calls it the last beast or the
fourth beast.
The 42 months is a "prophetic time period" and it contains 1260 prophetic
Days.
If you look at Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:4-6 you will get
the code to unlock that prophecy. A year for a day or a
day for a year.
yes, days in prophecy are different then literal days!
>
>> The 2300 evenings and mornings was to start?
>> According to Daniel 8:19-27, IT looks like that is talking
>> about Alexander the Great of Greek nation. when it was in world power.
>> I can not find a starting date for this 2300 day, (evenings
>> and morning) as of yet according to the Daniel 8 passages.
>> some say that the stating date may be when the decree to
>> rebuild Jerusalem went out was the starting date but it is
>> very hard to decipher from that text.
>> I do not see any 1150 days prophecy in any bible I have
>> read.
>> Where did you get that from? Book chapter and verse is
>> needed for that please.
>> All that sacrifices carp is pure conjecture and has no biblical
>> thread to its application to Prophecy fulfillment.
>
>
>
> Does any of Daniel 8 go beyond the time of Antiochus Epiphanes?
>
Some say it is the 2300 day prophecy is the longest prophecy of the bible
if the code of a "day for a year" is used, it is 2300 literal
years, so yes it does go way beyond.
>
>> The 1290 days prophecy has both a starting Date and a fulfillment
>> date
>> See Daniel 12:11
>> 11
>> "From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the
>> abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be
>> 1,290 days.
>> When was the daily sacrifice abolished?
>> Was it when Jesus died and the curtain was torn from top to
>> bottom or was it 70 AD. when Rome sacked Jerusalem?
>> When was the Abomination that causes desolation set up?
>
>
>
> The prophecy from Daniel 11:40 onward concerns "the time of the end."
> "And at that time ... there shall be a time of trouble such as never
> was" (Dan. 12:1). The "abomination that maketh desolate" shall be set
> up at the time of the end--not before.
That abomination was set up in the temple of jerusalem.
some say around 125 AD. when they put the statue of Zeus
in one of the wings of the temple and they sacrificed pigs.
and abomination to the jews.
>
> This prophesied time of the end will be a time of great apostasy, a time
> of "falling away" (2 Thess. 2:3). It will probably be a time of great
> persecution by the antichristian forces that are now amassing.
The falling away was in deed during the time of great apostasy
when rome was throwing Christians to the lions,
From 70 AD. on through 500 AD.. This also was a time of
Roman Pagan rule, that became Roman PAPAL rule in 538 AD.
538 started the Great Tribulation period that lasted the
1260 prophetic day.
Just because you were not there is not an excuse that you
can not look at history and figure this out especially when you
have someone showing you this with the dates and how to apply
prophecy to History for the big picture that satin is trying
to keep us from looking at so his agency will not be revealed
to us today. That beast is powered By the devil or satin that
old Dragon the leads the whole world astray.
> In
> Daniel 12:12, therefore, some kind of blessing is given to those who
> have not fallen away 1335 days before the end. 1290 days before the
> end, the reinstituted sacrifices of the rebuilt temple shall be "taken
> away" and the "abomination that maketh desolate set up [the Antichrist
> Pope in the rebuilt Temple]" (Dan. 12:11).
The 1290 days are prophetic days and are not literal day.
During the time of Jesus, it "was" in a rebuilt Jerusalem and
a rebuilt temple. The Sacrifices were stooped in 70 AD. when
Rome Sacked Jerusalem and drove the Israelites form jerusalem
or took them captive. Then set up their own image in the
temple and sacrificed pigs and abomination to the Children of
Israel by temple laws.
Notice how Rome is always against God and God's People weather
they were jews or Christians, and today they are trying to
pass themselves off as a Christian instatution. What lies they
always are pressing on you and the rest of the world that
remain in their ignorance and are easy to deceive.
> 30 days later, the Great
> Tribulation will begin and last for 1260 days (Dan. 12:7). This is why
> Christ instructed those in Judea who see the Antichrist in the temple to
> "flee into the mountains" (Matt. 24:15-16).
>
The 1260 day are prophetic days and with the code means 1260 literal
years, the exact time that the papacy was in world power the
first time, before it received the deadly wound in 1798.
The wound was healed in 1929 when the pope at that time
fearfully took the throne once again, and form there the
man of sin goes out to deceive the whole world again.
>
>> The 1260 days prophecy;
>> This appears to be the same time as the time, times and
>> half a time, and the 42 months and the 3 1/2 days, of
>> Daniel and Revelation.
>> these prophetic time periods are shown in Daniel 7 and 12.
>> Revelation 11, 12, and 13.
>> They all appear to be showing the different part that would
>> be taking place in the Great TRibulation.
>
>
>
> In Matthew 24:3, Christ is specifically asked: "What shall be the sign
> of thy coming, and of the end of the age?" Notice that His coming is
> specifically equated in this verse with the end of the present age.
We are still living in the age of Christians. That is
the age of the Christian Church, or the body of believers
that have been raptured form the world of unbelievers.
> He
> says that the end of the age will be preceded by the appearance of a
> desolating abomination in a holy place in Judea.
See above.
> And He says that we
> can understand what He is referring to through Daniel the prophet
> (verses 15-16). Daniel says all of this will occur in a place where
> daily sacrifices were being offered (Dan. 12:11).
That is right it was in Jerusalem that the sacrifices were,
and that is where they were stopped and that is where the
pagan set up their own gods and sacrificed pigs to them.
> Now none of these
> things have ever happened since the prophecy was uttered by Christ; they
> are all yet future: the temple must be rebuilt, sacrifices must be
> reinstituted, and the Antichrist must appear to stop the sacrifices and
> proclaim himself God (2 Thess. 2:4), regardless of all preterist
> interpretations.
If so then where is the temple that the Jews were using
during the time Jesus was walking the earth? and why is
there not any animals still being brought into jerusalem for
the last 1900 years.
Oh yes much has happened to jerusalem in the first 2 centuries
of the present era. It almost all has happened.
Just because you were not there to see it does not mean it
is not written in the History books for you to look at if you
really were interested in the truth. Hindsight is 20/20
so go back there and look at it.
You only have about 2600 years of history to go back and
study before you deny what is written in history and the
prophesies.
I am not lying to you nor is history nor is Bible prophecy,
You are just not looking at it properly or prospectively.
Misty,
John Abrams
The Christians understood the message and got out of Jerusalem long
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
Don't think so.
According to Josephus the Christians fled after the voice heard
throughout the city.
end
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
\
1260-1290-1335-2300 days-JRC
Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Wed, Jul 18, 2001, 7:50am (EDT+4) From:
yardh...@home.com (Misty, of the mist.)
John Abrams
to give those who are going to "flee" time to flee. Those who are in
Israel can go where they have to go in a matter of days but in other
parts of the world, people have to get what they're taking with them,
gather together, arrange transport and get where they are going. That's
why it says "when you see these things" etc., you know its time.
J:
Taking with them?!
There won't be time to go back into he house if you are outside.
I have the gut feeling that it will happen as the Saints are gathered on
an annual Holy Day.
They will leave - from there.
-No one else will hear the warning.-
Anyone stopping, even for a second, to get anything, will be -left-
behind.
And where ever they go- it will be HELL.
They are going to thirst, starve, freeze, sweat, hurt, and get eaten by
insects.
24 hours a day, seven days a week, for years- to test them.
And thats only a very small part of what they will have to endure.
When the armies attack them to kill them, many will scream in terror
because they do not put their faith in G-d.
Going into the wilderness will be like the suffering Israel endured.
This time it will be worse.
Israel came out of -slavery- and couldn't do it.
How will those survive who came out of luxury???
Air conditioning? Running water? A toilet? Shelter? A refrigerator?
Food? Sleep?
Many will - die.
They should make a list of clean and unclean insects now.......for they
days they can even find any.
end
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
1260-1290-1335-2300 days-JRC
Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Wed, Jul 18, 2001, 7:50am (EDT+4) From:
yardh...@home.com (Misty, of the mist.)
John Abrams
Where did you get that from? Book chapter and verse is needed for that
please.
J:
The phrase evenings and mornings refers to the evening sacrifice and he
morning sacrifice.
Many believe that the 2300 means 1150 days.
During 1150 days there would have been 2300 sacrifices.
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:
All that sacrifices carp is pure conjecture and has no biblical thread
to its application to Prophecy fulfillment.
J:
The evenings and mornings refer to the sacrifces. There was never a time
when thre were 2300 sacrifices during a period of 2300 days.
end
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
1260-1290-1335-2300 days-JRC
Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Mon, Jul 16, 2001, 12:17pm (EDT-3) From:
jame...@pacbell.com (James R. Calvert)
John Abrams
vision.
Daniel 8 :: King James Version (KJV)
Daniel 8
1
In the third year of the reign of king Belshazzar a vision appeared unto
me, even unto me Daniel, after that which appeared unto me at the first.
2
And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at
Shushan in the palace, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in a
vision, and I was by the river of Ulai.
3
Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the
river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one
was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.
4
I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no
beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver
out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.
5
And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the
face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a
notable horn between his eyes.
6
And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing
before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power.
7
And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler
against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was
no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the
ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the
ram out of his hand.
8
Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the
great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the
four winds of heaven.
9
And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding
great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant
land.
10
And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of
the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
11
Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the
daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast
down.
12
And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of
transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it
practised, and prospered.
13
Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that
certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the
daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the
sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
14
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then
shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
15
And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and
sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the
appearance of a man.
16
And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and
said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.
17
So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell
upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the
time of the end shall be the vision.
18
Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward
the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright.
19
And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end
of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.
20
The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and
Persia.
21
And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is
between his eyes is the first king.
22
Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall
stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
23
And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come
to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark
sentences, shall stand up.
24
And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall
destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy
the mighty and the holy people.
25
And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand;
and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy
many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall
be broken without hand.
26
And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true:
wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.
27
And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up,
and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but
none understood it.
Besq
Besq
You ought to read Flurry's book, "Daniel, Unsaled at Last!". It gives a
very good explanation of this and it all fits together.
John Abrams
Re: You ought to read Flurry's book, "Daniel, Unsaled at Last!". It
gives a
very good explanation of this and it all fits together.
J;
I will request it.
thanks
Uniacke
archeological scholars.
http://studywell.org/articles/belshazzar.htm
"John Abrams" <JAbr...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:6106-3B5...@storefull-173.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Besq
> Was Belshazzar ever a Babylonian king? Not so according to historian and
> archeological scholars.
> http://studywell.org/articles/belshazzar.htm
I imagine those religions have newsgroups too. You should be talking with
them then.
Uniacke
news:3B571D5D...@earthlink.net...
can you.
Belshazzar was a crowned-prince, not a king. Why would the author of Daniel
call him a ruling king? Simple, he didn't know his Babylonian history.
Scholars further affirm that Daniel was written about 163 B.C. at the end of
the Machabeean period not in the fifth century B.C.
It is your religion that corrupts history, not the historians. Read the
historical crap Hebee Armstrong wrote.;-). That wasn't history. That was
science fiction. You were taught a load of manure and you believe what your
teachers told you. I'm just trying to educate you and even present you with
some serious websites, not sectarian bullshit.
I'm always hoping that one of these days you will see the daylight. Am I
being too optimistic? Your'e making progress since you don't hit the roof
anymore when I jab at Hebee. It must be that your esteem for him is
evaporating slowly but sure. LOL.
>
Besq
Sorry, I still think the world of him. I just enjoy frustrating you and letting
you make a fool out of yourself. Religion is a discipline, just like "science",
archaeology, etc. Some people are quite religious over their discipline,
especially when they take it upon themselves to "correct" the religious.
"Science" and archaeology are guessing in the dark, the religious have a
textbook.
>
>
> >
Uniacke
like you stated is a doctrine. When someone tries to use the Bible to
explain science or archeology, or when someone tries to use science and
archeology to prove biblical theology, something is wrong.
No wonder you depreciate science and archeology, both prove your theories
wrong. Furthermore you deny human intelligence with your literal
interpretation of scriptural texts. No wonder you are mixed up and believe
in Hebee's science fiction. It's called brainwashed.
Fools believe others are fools. When a fool says I enjoy, it may well be
that his/her enjoyment is a manifestation of his/her frustrations.
Was Belshazzar a Scythian or a biological descendant of one of the mythical
Heads of tribes? Hebee would have said yes. LOL.
> >
> >
> > >
>
John Abrams
shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
The Jewish "Soncino Commentary", by Dr. Judah J. Slotki, comments on
this verse:
"...the numeral refers to the number of times the offerings, normally
brought twice daily, will be omitted, giving a total period of 1,150
days... ."
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
John Abrams
And he said to him, "For two thousand and three hundred evenings and
mornings; then the sanctuary shall be restored to its rightful state."
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
Are the 2300 evenings and mornings 2300 days?
this verse:
"...the numeral refers to the number of times the offerings, normally
brought twice daily, will be omitted, giving a total period of 1,150
days... ."
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Were the 1150 days fulfilled in the past?
Or are they yet future?
Daniel 8:19 He said, "Behold, I will make known to you what shall be at
the latter end of the indignation; for it pertains to the appointed time
of the end.
end
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Daniel 8 :: Revised Standard Version (RSV)
Daniel 8
1
In the third year of the reign of King Belshaz'zar a vision appeared to
me, Daniel, after that which appeared to me at the first.
2
And I saw in the vision; and when I saw, I was in Susa the capital,
which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in the vision, and I was at
the river U'lai.
3
I raised my eyes and saw, and behold, a ram standing on the bank of the
river. It had two horns; and both horns were high, but one was higher
than the other, and the higher one came up last.
4
I saw the ram charging westward and northward and southward; no beast
could stand before him, and there was no one who could rescue from his
power; he did as he pleased and magnified himself.
5
As I was considering, behold, a he-goat came from the west across the
face of the whole earth, without touching the ground; and the goat had a
conspicuous horn between his eyes.
6
He came to the ram with the two horns, which I had seen standing on the
bank of the river, and he ran at him in his mighty wrath.
7
I saw him come close to the ram, and he was enraged against him and
struck the ram and broke his two horns; and the ram had no power to
stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground and trampled upon
him; and there was no one who could rescue the ram from his power.
8
Then the he-goat magnified himself exceedingly; but when he was strong,
the great horn was broken, and instead of it there came up four
conspicuous horns toward the four winds of heaven.
9
Out of one of them came forth a little horn, which grew exceedingly
great toward the south, toward the east, and toward the glorious land.
10
It grew great, even to the host of heaven; and some of the host of the
stars it cast down to the ground, and trampled upon them.
11
It magnified itself, even up to the Prince of the host; and the
continual burnt offering was taken away from him, and the place of his
sanctuary was overthrown.
12
And the host was given over to it together with the continual burnt
offering through transgression; and truth was cast down to the ground,
and the horn acted and prospered.
13
Then I heard a holy one speaking; and another holy one said to the one
that spoke, "For how long is the vision concerning the continual burnt
offering, the transgression that makes desolate, and the giving over of
the sanctuary and host to be trampled under foot?"
14
And he said to him, "For two thousand and three hundred evenings and
mornings; then the sanctuary shall be restored to its rightful state."
15
When I, Daniel, had seen the vision, I sought to understand it; and
behold, there stood before me one having the appearance of a man.
16
And I heard a man's voice between the banks of the U'lai, and it called,
"Gabriel, make this man understand the vision."
17
So he came near where I stood; and when he came, I was frightened and
fell upon my face. But he said to me, "Understand, O son of man, that
the vision is for the time of the end."
18
As he was speaking to me, I fell into a deep sleep with my face to the
ground; but he touched me and set me on my feet.
19
He said, "Behold, I will make known to you what shall be at the latter
end of the indignation; for it pertains to the appointed time of the
end.
20
As for the ram which you saw with the two horns, these are the kings of
Media and Persia.
21
And the he-goat is the king of Greece; and the great horn between his
eyes is the first king.
22
As for the horn that was broken, in place of which four others arose,
four kingdoms shall arise from his nation, but not with his power.
23
And at the latter end of their rule, when the transgressors have reached
their full measure, a king of bold countenance, one who understands
riddles, shall arise.
24
His power shall be great, and he shall cause fearful destruction, and
shall succeed in what he does, and destroy mighty men and the people of
the saints.
25
By his cunning he shall make deceit prosper under his hand, and in his
own mind he shall magnify himself. Without warning he shall destroy
many; and he shall even rise up against the Prince of princes; but, by
no human hand, he shall be broken.
26
The vision of the evenings and the mornings which has been told is true;
but seal up the vision, for it pertains to many days hence."
27
And I, Daniel, was overcome and lay sick for some days; then I rose and
went about the king's business; but I was appalled by the vision and did
not understand it.
John Abrams
Unia...@rebelspiders.com (Uniacke)
archeological scholars.
J:
According to your source he ruled as king for several -years-.
end
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
1260-1290-1335-2300 days-B
Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Thu, Jul 19, 2001, 9:54am From:
Unia...@rebelspiders.com (Uniacke)
~
Re: 1260-1290-1335-2300 days-B
Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Thu, Jul 19, 2001, 9:54am From:
Unia...@rebelspiders.com (Uniacke)
http://www.thehungersite.com scholars.
Uniacke
All you need is time and patience.
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/tintirbabylon/nam.html
LOL.news:9945-3B5...@storefull-174.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Misty, of the mist.
Besq wrote:
> Uniacke wrote:
>
>
>> "Besq" <Besqa*ns*@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> news:3B571D5D...@earthlink.net...
>>
snip>
>>> I imagine those religions have newsgroups too. You should be talking with
>>> them then.
>>>
>>
>> You can't very well call exegesis, science, history, archeology religions,
>> can you.
>> Belshazzar was a crowned-prince, not a king. Why would the author of Daniel
>> call him a ruling king? Simple, he didn't know his Babylonian history.
>> Scholars further affirm that Daniel was written about 163 B.C. at the end of
>> the Machabeean period not in the fifth century B.C.
>> It is your religion that corrupts history, not the historians. Read the
>> historical crap Hebee Armstrong wrote.;-). That wasn't history. That was
>> science fiction. You were taught a load of manure and you believe what your
>> teachers told you. I'm just trying to educate you and even present you with
>> some serious websites, not sectarian bullshit.
>> I'm always hoping that one of these days you will see the daylight. Am I
>> being too optimistic? Your'e making progress since you don't hit the roof
>> anymore when I jab at Hebee. It must be that your esteem for him is
>> evaporating slowly but sure. LOL.
>
>
> Sorry, I still think the world of him. I just enjoy frustrating you and letting
> you make a fool out of yourself. Religion is a discipline, just like "science",
> archaeology, etc. Some people are quite religious over their discipline,
> especially when they take it upon themselves to "correct" the religious.
> "Science" and archaeology are guessing in the dark, the religious have a
> textbook.
>
>
>>
Archaeology is a closed minded science and they threw out the baby
with the bath water!
They have in their hand the evidence but since it does not add to their
theories they throw it out with the pot shards,
when they want a age they just blurt out any thing and have on
way to authenticate the way they age any of their artifacts or
relics.
Though it is quite obvious they are digging in flood debris they still
look for some other explanation of what they are digging in.
But woe to any one that questions their way.
They even have the news media on their side and it just goes
along with the chatter without question.
The Media even goes along with saying the rcc. is Christian.
Will the deception ever end?
Misty,
Misty, of the mist.
John Abrams wrote:
> Re:
> I do not see any 1150 days prophecy in any bible I have read.
> Where did you get that from? Book chapter and verse is needed for that
> please.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J:
> The phrase evenings and mornings refers to the evening sacrifice and he
> morning sacrifice.
> Many believe that the 2300 means 1150 days.
> During 1150 days there would have been 2300 sacrifices.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Snip>
So you contend the something would happen when the 1150 days
would pass?
Daniel 8:9-14
9
Out of one of them came another horn, which started
small but grew in power to the south and to the east
and toward the Beautiful Land.
10
It grew until it reached the host of the heavens, and
it threw some of the starry host down to the earth and
trampled on them.
11
It set itself up to be as great as the Prince of the
host; it took away the daily sacrifice from him, and
the place of his sanctuary was brought low.
12
Because of rebellion, the host [of the saints][1] and
the daily sacrifice were given over to it. It prospered
in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground.
13
Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one
said to him, "How long will it take for the vision to
be fulfilled--the vision concerning the daily sacrifice,
the rebellion that causes desolation, and the surrender
of the sanctuary and of the host that will be trampled
underfoot?"
14
He said to me, "It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings;
then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated."
(foot note)
[12] Or rebellion, the armies
Bible answer to the vision in part;
Daniel 8:23-27
New International Version (NIV)
Daniel 8
23
"In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have
become completely wicked, a stern-faced king, a master
of intrigue, will arise.
24
He will become very strong, but not by his own power.
He will cause astounding devastation and will succeed
in whatever he does. He will destroy the mighty men and
the holy people.
25
He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider
himself superior. When they feel secure, he will
destroy many and take his stand against the Prince of
princes. Yet he will be destroyed, but not by human power.
26
"The vision of the evenings and mornings that has been
given you is true, but seal up the vision, for it concerns
the distant future."
27
I, Daniel, was exhausted and lay ill for several days.
Then I got up and went about the king's business. I was
appalled by the vision; it was beyond understanding.
Was this not talking about the office of the papacy and
the papal Crusades during the "DARK AGES" AKA. THE GREAT
TRIBULATION?
It for sure was talking about Rome in one stage or the other.
Do you have a clue as to when this could be put into the
timeline of history, or the timeline of the bible?
Or in other words does it have a beginning date and and
ending date?
Misty
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J:
> The evenings and mornings refer to the sacrifces. There was never a time
> when thre were 2300 sacrifices during a period of 2300 days.
> end
Are you not sure that it was the, TIME, of the taking away of the
sacrifices that the passages are pointing to?
Is there not an evening and a morning in each day and could
not the 2300 mean whole day?
I have been muddling this in my mind for more then 20 years
now.
Misty,
end.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Misty, of the mist.
OH so you are taking the word of those that rejected the living
word of God as authorities for translating the Written word of
God?
Isn't this like asking the thief if it has any idea where the
money that was taken, is?
See Verse 11 below; notice it says sacrifice.
IT does not say sacrifice(s)
So I do not think it is a good idea to say it meant
2300 sacrifices.
It is truly saying Day! And these are Prophetic day, which
puts them in the prophetic Key Code of "A day for a year,
or a Year for a day.
Does it not?
Misty,
Uniacke
"Misty, of the mist." <yardh...@home.com> wrote in message
news:3B5800DD...@home.com...
the course of history. When are you going to realize that everything you
post is but the product of your own imagination and a misinterpretation of
Scriptures and history. Your mind is infested with superstitions and lies.
You have been taught lies and deceptions and you post lies and deceptions.
Archeology condemns people like you. Your charlatanism is not worth the
shards discarted by diggers.
When are you going to learn that you are peddling but junk on the
newsgroups.
If only you knew what archeology is all about.
John Abrams
OH so you are taking the word of those that rejected the living word of
God as authorities for translating the Written word of God?
J:
Do you mean the JEWS?
Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of
circumcision?
2Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the
oracles of God.
-- I don't think you mean the Jews.
Who did you mean??
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
If you don't do research you might as will just pick the one you like
best:
A)Daniel 8:14 :: King James Version (KJV)
Daniel 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred
days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
sanctuary will be reconsecrated."
Daniel 8:14 And he said unto me, Until two thousand and three hundred
evenings [and] mornings: then shall the sanctuary be vindicated.
D)Daniel 8:14 :: 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)Daniel 8:14
And he said unto me, "Until two thousand and three hundred days; then
shall the sanctuary be cleansed."
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:M
Isn't this like asking the thief if it has any idea where the money
that was taken, is?
J:
Great idea!
Only the thief knows where the money is hidden.
We can use truth serum and no more innocent ppl will go to jail and no
guilty ppl. will go free.
No more lawyers or jurys!
kewl
end
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
John Abrams
Crusades during the "DARK AGES" AKA. THE GREAT TRIBULATION?
J:
The tribulation hasn't happened yet.
---25 He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself
superior. When they feel secure, he will destroy many and take his stand
Yet he will be destroyed (Armageddon), but NOT by HUMAN power. 26
end
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
1260-1290-1335-2300 days-M
Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Fri, Jul 20, 2001, 10:35am (EDT+4) From:
yardh...@home.com (Misty, of the mist.)
John Abrams
The Jewish "Soncino Commentary", by Dr. Judah J. Slotki, comments on
this verse: "...the numeral refers to the number of times the offerings,
normally brought twice daily, will be omitted, giving a total period of
1,150 days... ."
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
oooooooooooo
So I do not think it is a good idea to say it meant 2300 sacrifices. It
is truly saying Day! And these are Prophetic day, which puts them in the
prophetic Key Code of "A day for a year, or a Year for a day. Does it
not?
Misty,
J:
No.
These scriptures below are 'a day for a year':
Numbers 14:34 After the number of the days in which ye searched the
land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your
iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.---
Ezekiel 4:6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right
side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days:
I have appointed thee each day for a year.-------
Notice that the word -day- is used.
In Daniel 8:14 it says 'evenings and mornings' , not -day.
You cannot produce an 'evenings and mornings for a year' scripture.
There are none.
end
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
John Abrams
See Verse 11 below; notice it says sacrifice.
IT does not say sacrifice(s)
No.
There are 100 translations.
The one below has -sacrifices-.
Do you only use one translation?
If you do only use one translation I -can- find obvious mistakes in it.
If you use more than one, how do you choose which to use??
The oracles of G-d were committed to the Jews. Their translation can be
trusted, except where the Messiah is mentioned.
There they are prejudiced, but prophecy will be fulfilled and they will
weep.....----
Daniel 8:11 :: New King James Version (NKJV)
Daniel 8
11He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him
the -daily- sacrifices were taken away, and the place of His sanctuary
was cast down.-----
Does not daily mean one day?
Research; how many sacrifices did they have a day?
end
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
2300 days
Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Fri, Jul 20, 2001, 10:57am (EDT+4) From:
yardh...@home.com (Misty, of the mist.)
Misty, of the mist.
Ok, take your imagination as far into the future as far as you like
and you will never be able to interpret Prophecy.
You are missing the one thing that makes it work.
A usable timeline.
even 2 things you are missing the other is the prophetic key.
Thank you for your time.
sorry you ar wasting mine.
Misty,
Misty, of the mist.
snip>
no but you can produce an 'evening and morning' to produce a day
See Genesis all of chapter one.
As you see in God making prophecy in Numbers and Ezekiel you see God
also giving the key code He uses in making other prophesies.
Does God change?
Yes it does say a day not days as meaning one day equals a year and
if there are more days it also applies to more years inclusive.
Misty,
Misty, of the mist.
> Misty says:
> OH so you are taking the word of those that rejected the living word of
> God as authorities for translating the Written word of God?
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J:
> Do you mean the JEWS?
> Romans 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of
> circumcision?
> 2Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the
> oracles of God.
> -- I don't think you mean the Jews.
> Who did you mean??
XXXXXX
Yes the Jews or the Sadusees or Pharisees or the Children of Israel or
whom ever was in charge of the temple and Jerusalem at the time Jesus
was rejected as their Messiah when he walked the earth in flesh and blood
as a man.
Yes they were the chosen ones to guard the oracles of God of which they
also added some of there own and was so puffed up they thought they could
do what ever they liked as long as it was within their own laws but failed
to recognize Gods real law.
We christians are entrusted with the grace of God but if we remain luke
warm God is or maybe has spit us out of his mouth and is giving our lot to
someone else just like He did in Choosing His New Jerusalem out of the
gentiles of the world.
I would not even venture a guess as to who the new Christians would be or
of what body they would be chosen from if that is the case.
Those that rejected the Living Word of God also Rejected the Written Word
of God, so they can not be trusted to be the authorities to be translating
The Bible, either the Old Wittness or the New Wittness.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J:
> If you don't do research you might as will just pick the one you like
> best:
> A)Daniel 8:14 :: King James Version (KJV)
> Daniel 8:14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred
> days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
> B)Daniel 8:14 :: New International Version (NIV)Daniel 8:14
> He said to me, "It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the
> sanctuary will be reconsecrated."
> C)Daniel 8:14 :: Darby Translation (DARBY)
> Daniel 8:14 And he said unto me, Until two thousand and three hundred
> evenings [and] mornings: then shall the sanctuary be vindicated.
> D)Daniel 8:14 :: 21st Century King James Version (KJ21)Daniel 8:14
> And he said unto me, "Until two thousand and three hundred days; then
> shall the sanctuary be cleansed."
> -- There are 100 translations to choose from.
XXXXXX
yes all of those translations need to be understood and it is up to us to
figure out what the code is to unlock the under meanings of them.
We need to apply bible to understand bible.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> RE:M
> Isn't this like asking the thief if it has any idea where the money
> that was taken, is?
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J:
> Great idea!
> Only the thief knows where the money is hidden.
> We can use truth serum and no more innocent ppl will go to jail and no
> guilty ppl. will go free.
> No more lawyers or jurys!
> kewl
> end
XXXXX
Only the Thief and God know.
but by the Holy Spirit God reveals to us his hidden treasures.
Will you keep rejecting what God is offering?
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
>
As long as the man of sin sits on the throne (pope in the Vatican)
innocent people will be martyred. the whole alleged justice system is under
the control of "The man of Sin".
WE are not yet under the authority of the saints as the bible says one day
it will be.
we are living in the days of the extended Great tribulation the way it
looks to me.
OR we are in the time of the Armageddon.
I have not got it all figured out yet but I am still researching His word
for the answers we need to understands, just what God has for us.
Misty,
John Abrams
sorry you ar wasting mine.
Misty,
J:
You are wrong.
I am not wasting your time.
In this very thread I taught you how a time, times and half a time
equals 1260 days.
After you asked how , I answered and you have since used this
information that I taught to you, again, in this very thread.
It is you that have taught me nothing.
The crime is that you can. You just won't challenge your sacred beliefs.
Had you taught me anything I would post to you everyday that I could for
the rest of my life.
That in the hopes that you would teach me again.
It is too bad that you do not value learning over what you already
believe to be true.......
end
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
1260-1290-1335-2300 days-M
Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Sat, Jul 21, 2001, 12:40pm (EDT+4) From:
John Abrams
Ginger
Nov.17th,1971-Dec.29th,2000
John Abrams
But, this information is interesting.............
-------Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that
certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the
daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the
Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be
Daniel chapter 8.
I just found this information online, and it might answer a very nagging
question: Why does Daniel 8 start out talking about Alexander conquering
Persia and, end with 'then shall the sanctuary be cleansed' and ' I will
make thee know what shall be in the -last end- of the indignation: for
at the time appointed the -end- shall be',?
What does '330' BC have to do with the 'end'?!
Why place these events together???
He uses the day for a year standard of Numbers and Ezekiel on his
website.
2300 days = 2300 years
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
From website:
Since Alexander the Great attacked and conquered Persia at the river
Granicus in 334 B.C., storming across the river with fury, thus changing
the history of the world from that moment, with one world empire
falling, and another rising -- we must count our time span of years from
that very date. Beginning in 334 B.C., counting 2300 years, we come to
the fascinating year of 1967 A.D.
2300 years
-334 B.C. -- year Alexander defeated Persians 1966 (but as there is no
year "zero" we must add 1) +1
1967 A.D. -- year of Six Day War!
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
After the six day war Israel regained the Temple Mount for the first
time after -many centuries-. Israel still has the Temple Mount today,
even though they gave 'control' of it to Arabs.
Could such an event be ignored by prophecy?
Was this verse 'Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the
sanctuary be cleansed', fulfilled in 67' when Israel took back the
Temple Mount???
What do you think?
Misty, of the mist.
> Re:
> Thank you for your time.
> sorry you ar wasting mine.
> Misty,
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J:
> You are wrong.
> I am not wasting your time.
> In this very thread I taught you how a time, times and half a time
> equals 1260 days.
You may have wrote that but I have known that for 20 years before I ever
met you.
> After you asked how , I answered and you have since used this
> information that I taught to you, again, in this very thread.
> It is you that have taught me nothing.
I asked you how you got 1150 day from 2300.
> The crime is that you can.
"The crime" ???
You just won't challenge your sacred beliefs.
I challenge my beliefs all the time just in case I may be to closed minded
about that which I have excepted long ago.
It is you that will not take the steps to challenge you "sacred beliefs"
> Had you taught me anything I would post to you everyday that I could for
> the rest of my life.
Why do you reject that the "Dark Ages" was the Great Tribulation??
Just take the sum total of all the prophesies that talk about it and
if you will just open your mind you too will see they all fit just like
a glove fits the hand that it was intended for.
> That in the hopes that you would teach me again.
> It is too bad that you do not value learning over what you already
> believe to be true.......
> end
You are so funny in saying your views on my ability to learn.
I am attempting to share those thing that I have been researching, for
the last 20 years.
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
>
>
>
>
>
> 1260-1290-1335-2300 days-M
>
> Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Sat, Jul 21, 2001, 12:40pm (EDT+4) From:
> yardh...@home.com (Misty, of the mist.)
> John Abrams wrote:
> Re:Was this not talking about the office of the papacy and the papal
> Crusades during the "DARK AGES" AKA. THE GREAT TRIBULATION?
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J:
> The tribulation hasn't happened yet.
See above. ^
> ---25 He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider
> himself superior. When they feel secure, he will destroy many and take
> his stand against the Prince of princes (Christ).
> Yet he will be destroyed (Armageddon), but NOT by HUMAN power. 26
> "The vision of the evenings and mornings that has been given you is
> true, but seal up the vision, for it concerns the -distant future."
end
The above describes the doctrine of the men that take the office of the
papacy to a "T"
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> 1260-1290-1335-2300 days-M
> Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Fri, Jul 20, 2001, 10:35am (EDT+4) From:
> yardh...@home.com (Misty, of the mist.) John Abrams wrote:
> Re:
> I do not see any 1150 days prophecy in any bible I have read. Where did
> you get that from? Book chapter and verse is needed for that please.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J:
> The phrase evenings and mornings refers to the evening sacrifice and he
> morning sacrifice.
> Many believe that the 2300 means 1150 days. During 1150 days there would
> have been 2300 sacrifices.
This is your assumption that that is what it means, put it in a timeline
Either bible or history.
And please show book chapter and verse that it means that.
Daniel 8:13-14
(NIV BIBLE)
It says the in Verse 11 it took away the daily sacrifice. I do not see
that it counted those sacrifices, notice it is singular not plural.
Your theory does not apply to this one, Sis.
Misty, of the mist.
> I believe that the 2300 'days' mean 1150 days.
M Thank you for your honesty, but you need to dig a bit deeper into the
timeline.
> But, this information is interesting.............
> -------Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that
> certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the
> daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the
> sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? 14 And he said unto me,
> Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be
> cleansed.------
> Daniel chapter 8.
> I just found this information online, and it might answer a very nagging
> question: Why does Daniel 8 start out talking about Alexander conquering
> Persia and, end with 'then shall the sanctuary be cleansed' and ' I will
> make thee know what shall be in the -last end- of the indignation: for
> at the time appointed the -end- shall be',?
M That is how we use it to put it in a timeline; There were 4 others
that ruled after Alexander and out of one of those four was the start of
the Roman Empire the nation that indeed sacked Jerusalem in 70 AD. and
took away the daily sacrifice.
> What does '330' BC have to do with the 'end'?!
M I think it was about 168 BC. that rome came into existence and Rome is
the nation that the man of sin was to come out of.
All time after Jesus came out of the grave is considered the end time, That
also includes today.
> Why place these events together???
M That is to show who came into existence first Notice in Daniel 8
it names the nations that the beast represent. but it does not name Rome
as the last beast so we just look at history to name that one, and
it is still a thorn in our sides today but it did go through some changes.
There was imperial Rome, then pagan Rome, then Papal Rome that received the
deadly wound described in Revelation 13
Daniel has the ruling nations in line just like dominoes and all we have
to do is check them off the timeline of History. This is what The Book
of Daniel is mostly telling us form Chapter one and Nebuchadnezzar and
the Babylonians to the "Babylon the great of revelation 17:5.
I have to confess it is still BABYLON today, because those nations
came out of it or took it place down through history.
> He uses the day for a year standard of Numbers and Ezekiel on his
> website.
> 2300 days = 2300 years
M the problem here is we need a starting date. I questioned the date I
was given 20 years ago but My teacher at that time used the date
that the decree was sent out to rebuild Jerusalem after the 70 year
captivity. That was when Daniel was an old man.
The decree was 457 BC. see Daniel 9:25.
Many other prophesies will be also fulfilled in that span of time though.
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> From website:
>
> Since Alexander the Great attacked and conquered Persia at the river
> Granicus in 334 B.C., storming across the river with fury, thus changing
> the history of the world from that moment, with one world empire
> falling, and another rising -- we must count our time span of years from
> that very date. Beginning in 334 B.C., counting 2300 years, we come to
> the fascinating year of 1967 A.D.
> 2300 years
> -334 B.C. -- year Alexander defeated Persians 1966 (but as there is no
> year "zero" we must add 1) +1
> 1967 A.D. -- year of Six Day War!
M It is very good that a timeline is being used here but I wonder just
Why we must start that 2300 days from that date of 334 BC.?
Some times we can count backward to get a starting date for some of the
DAYS prophesies. IN doing this we have to look at what happened at that
time.
How are we to assume that the santuary was cleansed at that time?
The Jews in Israel have not to this date yet been able to touch the
site of the Mosque that is sitting on the very spot of where the old
temple was in 70 AD.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> After the six day war Israel regained the Temple Mount for the first
> time after -many centuries-. Israel still has the Temple Mount today,
> even though they gave 'control' of it to Arabs.
> Could such an event be ignored by prophecy?
> Was this verse 'Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the
> sanctuary be cleansed', fulfilled in 67' when Israel took back the
> Temple Mount???
M Like I said I do not think that we can assume that, because the temple
remains in the hands of the Muslims.
But, NOw this is a bit bazaar but in the new testament it talks about a
New Jerusalem and this seems to be talking about the house of, or the sum
total of Christian believers, as it is a new temple for the HOly spirit to
be dwelling in.
As per, if you could more open your mind and assume that the dark ages
was the Great Tribulation then God had to reassemble his church after that
time, because the church (the Christian Church) was for the most part
not in existence at that time and it had to come out of the wilderness
Some time right after TGT. was fulfilled.
The SDA claimed the fulfillment date to be 1844. but I could not find
anything on or about that date that would show it had to do with any
temple cleansing unless it was to reassemble the True Church again and
Bring it out of the wilderness and into the open.
There was a lot of evangelism going on though in or around that century
give or take a century.
> What do you think?
M yes this is the kind of stuff I have been mulling around for the last
20 years. I do not have it all pegged down to a science yet though.
Thank you for your open minded consideration.
now we will be able to advance in our discussion.
Misty,
VALERIE J SOUTHARD
> John Abrams wrote:
>
> > I believe that the 2300 'days' mean 1150 days.
>
When you do prophecy you need to take it
- one thought at a time
Daniel 8
back upi to only the info needed
2300 days
Concerning what?
What parts mentioned right before this 2300 days are we concerned with?
the host tread under
So how far back now do you have to step to find that part?
Valerie
VALERIE J SOUTHARD
VALERIE J SOUTHARD <v4end...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:Kyz67.5368$qA.941...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
360 days a year
us/ 365.25 days a year
Stick with only what the 2300 days specifically is
concerned with.
Certain things happen during those 2300 days.
What is one of them?
host tread under
So what verse is that?
Start the 2300 days.
Valerie
Misty, of the mist.
> Re:
> See Verse 11 below; notice it says sacrifice.
> IT does not say sacrifice(s)
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> No.
> There are 100 translations.
> The one below has -sacrifices-.
> Do you only use one translation?
M No I have Bible gateway online and I checked several versions now
and 2 have it in plural the others have it in singular.
All of the bible are only Translations and we must treat them as such.
none or perfect because of the "TRANSLATION".
I have 11 versions to chose from in bible gateway.
I wish I could give you the URL.
> If you do only use one translation I -can- find obvious mistakes in it.
> If you use more than one, how do you choose which to use??
M I take a mean average but if it has to get really tech then I use
Strong's analytical concordance that has the 4 old language dictionaries
in it. It concords my KJV and I sometimes have to go that way.
I usually quote the NIV though. I usually state which one I post in here
too.
Misty,
> The oracles of G-d were committed to the Jews. Their translation can be
> trusted, except where the Messiah is mentioned.
> There they are prejudiced, but prophecy will be fulfilled and they will
> weep.....----
> Daniel 8:11 :: New King James Version (NKJV)
> Daniel 8
> 11He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him
> the -daily- sacrifices were taken away, and the place of His sanctuary
> was cast down.-----
> Does not daily mean one day?
> Research; how many sacrifices did they have a day?
> end
M According to Leviticus they did have at least one sacrifice each day
as long as the temple was being thought about. but when they back slid
even that one was questionable and God had to shake them up from time
to time bye wars that they lost or just plain put them in captivity
or scattered them like what happened in 70 AD.
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
>
>
> 2300 days
>
> Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Fri, Jul 20, 2001, 10:57am (EDT+4) From:
> yardh...@home.com (Misty, of the mist.)
> Misty says:
> OH so you are taking the word of those that rejected the living word of
> God as authorities for translating the Written word of God?
> Isn't this like asking the thief if it has any idea where the money that
> was taken, is?
> See Verse 11 below; notice it says sacrifice. IT does not say
> sacrifice(s)
> So I do not think it is a good idea to say it meant 2300 sacrifices.
> It is truly saying Day! And these are Prophetic days, which puts them in
Uniacke
"VALERIE J SOUTHARD" <v4end...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:Kyz67.5368$qA.941...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
>
> news:3B5AC141...@home.com...
> > John Abrams wrote:
> >
> > > I believe that the 2300 'days' mean 1150 days.
> >
>
>
> When you do prophecy you need to take it
>
> - one thought at a time
>
in place while blindfolded.
That is exactly what you three guys are doing. Going about like chickens
with their heads cutoff.
Ever seen a real chicken jumping around on its two legs after you cut its
head off. They do jump.
John Abrams
Why do you reject that the "Dark Ages" was the Great Tribulation?? Just
take the sum total of all the prophesies that talk about it and if you
will just open your mind you too will see they all fit just like a glove
fits the hand that it was intended for.
J:
There are many prophecies that speak of Christ coming to rule on the
earth and the tribulation that happens just before this.
In the Dark Ages there was no danger of all life being killed if those
times were not cut short.
And Christ has not come to rule the earth.
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE: 1260 days= a time,times and half a time.
M:
You may have wrote that but I have known that for 20 years before I ever
met you.
J:
Emotions just get in the way, an this type of talk is nothing but a
waste of time. Saying 'what was your teacher drinking', etc. is
counter-productive .
You posted: -M: "How did you get 1260 from the "time, times, and a half
time. prophecy?"-
J: Now you have known that for 20 years.
So be it. This type of talk wastes time.
If you didn't say 'you are wasting my time' & 'what was your teacher
drinking' I never would have stooped to using your words.
We all make mistakes, and are to judge no one.
Now you say 'you are so funny'.
Have I said these negative things to you???
This is what I have learned from 20 years of study: I know we will all
be judged and there will be -jails- during the millennium.
Many will call 'Lord,Lord', and he will say 'I do not know you'. It is
better to tremble because there is a G-d, just as the demons do.
Better the house of mourning than the house of mirth.
We can learn from EVERYONE - that is the point. Emotion and arguing is
for fools.
I'm looking for -facts-.
And I can't find 'anyone', no one, willing to discuss everything, over
an over, to see what can be learned.
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
M:
You are so funny in saying your views on my ability to learn. I am
attempting to share those thing that I have been researching, for the
It is you that will not take the steps to challenge you "sacred
I challenge my beliefs all the time----
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
ooooooooooo
J:
I too have been researching for about 20 years.
And I do challenge my beliefs.
AS PROOF read the post: -2300- -JRC.
It has strong proof that the 2300 means years.
I just found the information yesterday - and it may be correct.
Now thats a paradigm shift!
And nothing is more difficult than to change ones beliefs.
Read that post.
What do you think?
Also read the post: What do you think?-no.
What do you think?
John Abrams
that ruled after Alexander and out of one of those four was the start of
the Roman Empire the nation that indeed sacked Jerusalem in 70 AD. and
took away the daily sacrifice.
J:
What does the 2300 have to do with the Roman Empire??
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:
M I think it was about 168 BC. that rome came into existence and Rome is
the nation that the man of sin was to come out of. All time after Jesus
came out of the grave is considered the end time, That also includes
today.
J:
This post is about the 2300.
Why bring up 168 AD?
Where do you have the 2300 in your timeline?
I know of two that are both based on day for a year.
Do you know of -any?
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:
M That is to show who came into existence first Notice in Daniel 8 it
names the nations that the beast represent. but it does not name Rome as
the last beast so we just look at history to name that one, and it is
still a thorn in our sides today but it did go through some changes.
There was imperial Rome, then pagan Rome, then Papal Rome that received
the deadly wound described in Revelation 13
J:
The events in question are about
Alexander conquering Persia and the sanctuary being cleansed.
Why are you bringing up Rome???
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:
Why we must start that 2300 days from that date of 334 BC.?
J:
That is -when- Alexander conquered Persia, in 334 BC. The -vision- is
about Alexander conquering Persia.
2300 years later -exactly- Israel got back the Temple Mount after more
than 1,000 years!
Thats why 334BC is used, its what this entire post was all about.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:M
How are we to assume that the santuary was cleansed at that time? The
Jews in Israel have not to this date yet been able to touch the site of
the Mosque that is sitting on the very spot of where the old temple was
in 70 AD.
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
That was my question.
Was that prophecy fulfilled in 1967????
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:
M Like I said I do not think that we can assume that, because the temple
remains in the hands of the Muslims.
J:
The Temple Mount IS ISRAELI territory, they own it now. A foolish
general allowed the Arabs to have 'control'.
But it now belongs to Israel.
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
RE:
The SDA claimed the fulfillment date to be 1844.
J:
The SDA used faulty dating.
I have this information if you want it.
John Abrams
Strong's analytical concordance----
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
KEWL
I too use Bible Gateway and Strong's.
From what I have read all translations have errors. And it is a good
idea to check many sources.
What shocked me is that there is no single Bible. True there are about
100 translations.
But they were translated from several different
ancient manuscripts, from differet 'bibles'.
Many scholars believe that the MT and LXX were copied from the same
source.
But we do not have that original source Bible.
So in many verses there is no way to know which has the correct verse
when they differ.
I just read about a collection that has the oldest book of Revelation
ever discovered, which also contains allot of marginal notes.
I have to find out if there are copies/translations from it.
John Abrams
Certain things happen during those 2300 days. What is one of them?
host tread under
So what verse is that?
Start the 2300 days.
Valerie
J:
'Quoting' Misty, Whats your timeline?
How do you see the 2300 days beginning an ending?
What happens on the 1st day?
What happens on the 2300th day?
end
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Re: -2300 days- JRC
Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Sun, Jul 22, 2001, 12:27pm (EDT+4) From:
v4end...@prodigy.net (VALERIE J SOUTHARD)
John Abrams
Ginger
Nov.17th,1971-Dec.29th,2000
Misty, of the mist.
I like the way the NIV is put together and the way it reads
but I do not like the way the verse numbers are buried in the
text and are hard to find so fast.
I like it that even I can write to them if I think there is an error
in it some place.
Usually the foot notes take care of any error.
they even use the dead sea scrolls to compare the tight spots.
Misty, of the mist.
What we are concerned with is the starting date.
This is the one main thing with all of the prophesies. when they
mention *DAYS* in them or even hint to a day.
with this prophecy it says evenings and mornings so that may be a clue
that we have to do something different with it, but maybe not.
The next thing is as usual to put it in a timeline some place, to see if
it has been fulfilled or not.
The next thing then is the ending date. Whew!
When we have these thing all fitting in a row then it is really for
sure we have the bible prophecy fulfilled in the timeline of History.
If these do not stand in a row then the prophecy may not have been fulfilled.
Then we have to look at it much more closely to see what we have missed.
Like the Rapture.
Misty, of the mist.
> RE:
> M That is how we use it to put it in a timeline; There were 4 others
> that ruled after Alexander and out of one of those four was the start of
> the Roman Empire the nation that indeed sacked Jerusalem in 70 AD. and
> took away the daily sacrifice.
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J:
> What does the 2300 have to do with the Roman Empire??
M Much in deed. Most of the prophesies that are not about the messiah
are about those that are against the Creator God and those come out of
Rome, AKA THE FOURTH BEAST.
The whole fourth beast is rome if you take a look in the history books.
The 2300 days is showing us what was to happen in the future.
(not our future) but the future of Israel and The Chosen people from
the time it was written. And Rome will be doing those things mentioned
in that chapter and others.
If you use the key for a day for a year that makes it 2300 years from
the starting date if we can find it.
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> RE:
> M I think it was about 168 BC. that rome came into existence and Rome is
> the nation that the man of sin was to come out of. All time after Jesus
> came out of the grave is considered the end time, That also includes
> today.
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J:
> This post is about the 2300.
> Why bring up 168 AD?
> Where do you have the 2300 in your timeline?
> I know of two that are both based on day for a year.
> Do you know of -any?
168 AD is the beginning of the Fourth beast of Daniel.
One beginning for the 2300 days is 168 BC. (Sorry I did not mean AD.
OH I did say BC. See above. He he he.) so from 168 BC it would either
be 2133 AD or just half like you say, Which would put the end to around
1182 AD. I can not be sure because I do not know of anything that
happened on either of those dates of much significance as far as the
cleansing of the temple is concerned, or it reconsecration but it
could be hidden in history and I have not yet recognize it yet.
Another is, like I said in another post, when the decree to rebuild
Jerusalem. You see Jerusalem was uninhabited by Hebrews form Daniel
Chapter one, because of the Babylonians sacking it around 600 BC.
But the DEcree of Daniel 25 was to have gone out 457 BC thence to
1844 AD., as per the Seventh day Adventists. I do not see any thing
in History that was of significance that happened that year either.
The SDA may be able to tell you what they think may have happened that
year though.
Then the other was 70 AD when Rome SAcked Jerusalem that stopped any
temple services form that day to today. That starting date would make it
not yet fulfilled but would in about 2231 AD.
I guess we need to look a little bit deeper to get the right one.
What dates do you have for your starting dates and ending dates?
Anyone else care to make an attempt to place it in a timeline?
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> RE:
> Why place these events together???
> M That is to show who came into existence first Notice in Daniel 8 it
> names the nations that the beast represent. but it does not name Rome as
> the last beast so we just look at history to name that one, and it is
> still a thorn in our sides today but it did go through some changes.
> There was imperial Rome, then pagan Rome, then Papal Rome that received
> the deadly wound described in Revelation 13
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J:
> The events in question are about
> Alexander conquering Persia and the sanctuary being cleansed.
> Why are you bringing up Rome???
M Alexander is in Daniel 8:8 but Verse 9 is telling of the next Beast
that would come out of the 4 kings after Alexander was dead.
That Beast is Rome and that is why it must be addressed here and
at this time.
Rome followed Greece in the timeline of history.
Daniel 1 is talking about Babylon that fell to the Meads and
the Persians, that fell to Greece, that fell to the Romans, which fell
to the pagans, which fell to the Papacy which receive it deadly wound
but lived and is with us today. However it is still Rome but "Different"
as prophesied it would be different Daniel 7:7 ff.
This is why we must put rome in there.
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> RE:
> M It is very good that a timeline is being used here but I wonder just
> Why we must start that 2300 days from that date of 334 BC.?
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J:
> That is -when- Alexander conquered Persia, in 334 BC. The -vision- is
> about Alexander conquering Persia.
> 2300 years later -exactly- Israel got back the Temple Mount after more
> than 1,000 years!
> Thats why 334BC is used, its what this entire post was all about.
M Daniel 8:8 may well be talking about Alexander but verse 9 is
talking about after his four predecessors and his Greeks fall to the
romans. see above.
334 BC Would put the 2300 years ending date at 1867.
According to my timeline the meads fell to Artaxerxes in 457 BC. at
the time the Decree was sent out to rebuild Jerusalem under the Greek
leadership before Alexander came into power.
IT was also at this time the Jews returned to Jerusalem and it was
the start of the 70 weeks of years Prophecy also. Daniel 9.
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> RE:M
> How are we to assume that the santuary was cleansed at that time? The
> Jews in Israel have not to this date yet been able to touch the site of
> the Mosque that is sitting on the very spot of where the old temple was
> in 70 AD.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J:
> That was my question.
> Was that prophecy fulfilled in 1967????
NO!
It was fulfilled much earlier. but the temple may very well have
been talking about The Christian Church ae. the New Jerusalem, And not
the Jewish temple in Old Jerusalem. Jesus is the chief Cap stone in
the New Temple you know.
This just after the time that the Beast received it's deadly wound but
before the wound was healed.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> RE:
> M Like I said I do not think that we can assume that, because the temple
> remains in the hands of the Muslims.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J:
> The Temple Mount IS ISRAELI territory, they own it now. A foolish
> general allowed the Arabs to have 'control'.
> But it now belongs to Israel.
If that is true then we must realize God is still in control and the
other prophecy is not talking about old jerusalem.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> RE:
> The SDA claimed the fulfillment date to be 1844.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J:
> The SDA used faulty dating.
> I have this information if you want it.
NO I did not believe their dating so I am searching for a better date
system. They did get me started in this whole ball of worms though.
Misty,
Misty, of the mist.
> VALERIE J SOUTHARD <v4end...@prodigy.net> wrote in message
> news:Kyz67.5368$qA.941...@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
> 360 days a year
> us/ 365.25 days a year
>
> Stick with only what the 2300 days specifically is
> concerned with.
OK, lets see what it is concerned with, oh person with the close mind.
It is concerning a prophecy, therefore it is under the guide of the
prophecies or the code of prophecy. Go look up Numbers 14:34 and
Ezekiel 4:4-6 for the Key if you can find it in those passages because
it is spoken 3 times so you are sure to get it right.
IT concerns Daniel 8:13
13
Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to
him, "How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled--the
vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes
desolation, and the surrender of the sanctuary and of the host
that will be trampled underfoot?"
(NIV)
ONE, IT CONCERNS A VISION FULFILLED, WHAT VISIONS?
TWO, DAILY SACRIFICE(S), STOPPED.
THREE, REBELLION THAT CAUSES DESOLATION.
FOUR, THE SURRENDER OF A SANTUARY, (THAT STILL NEEDED TO BE REBUILT).
FIVE, A HOST THAT WILL BE TRAMPLED UNDERFOOT.
SIX LAST AND MOST IMPORTANT THE PROPHETIC TIME PERIOD IT WOULD
ALL HAPPEN.
>
> Certain things happen during those 2300 days.
> What is one of them?
> host tread under
SEE ABOVE.
>
> So what verse is that?
DANIEL 8:14
14
He said to me, "It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then
the sanctuary will be reconsecrated."
> Start the 2300 days.
FIRST WE MUST USE THE KEY OF A DAY FOR A YEAR FOR STARTERS, IF YOU CAN
HANDLE BIBLE PUTTING LIGHT ON THE DARKER PASSAGES OF THE BIBLE.
SECOND IT IS THAT VERY STARTING DATE THAT WE ARE DISCUSSING HERE.
DO YOU HAVE YOUR FAVORITE STARTING DATE? POST IT AND WE WILL GO
FROM THERE TO SEE IF ANYTHING HAPPENED AT THE END OF IT.
1. 457 BC.
2. 70 AD.
3. 338 AD.
4. - - - (YOUR ALLEGED STARTING DATE IF YOU HAVE ONE)
Misty,
>
> Valerie
Misty, of the mist.
> M:
> Why do you reject that the "Dark Ages" was the Great Tribulation?? Just
> take the sum total of all the prophesies that talk about it and if you
> will just open your mind you too will see they all fit just like a glove
> fits the hand that it was intended for.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J:
> There are many prophecies that speak of Christ coming to rule on the
> earth and the tribulation that happens just before this.
M I said "Take the prophesies that talk about the Great tribulation"
and the dark ages fit perfectly right down to the prophetic
1260 days prophesied.
And indeed Jesus did come and was crucified and came again form the
grave. All of this long before the Start of "T G T.
All we have to do is find and put them in the 2 timelines and
superimpose them one over the other. It all fits just perfectly.
> In the Dark Ages there was no danger of all life being killed if those
> times were not cut short.
M Here you may be using 2 separate prophesies, The one of "the danger"
was something like 50 months I think, and is in Revelation. and may have
meant 50 months and not to be translated with the day for a year key.
> And Christ has not come to rule the earth.
M Christ never stopped ruling from the time He came out of the Grave.
Prophecy tells what went on with christ's chosen Church during TGT.
His Bride went undercover in the wilderness for the duration
See Revelation 12 inclusive.
But He was always the ruler of and protector of his Chosen New Jerusalem.
All of this too was included in the 2300 day prophecy.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> RE: 1260 days= a time,times and half a time.
> M:
> You may have wrote that but I have known that for 20 years before I ever
> met you.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J:
> Emotions just get in the way, an this type of talk is nothing but a
> waste of time. Saying 'what was your teacher drinking', etc. is
> counter-productive .
> You posted: -M: "How did you get 1260 from the "time, times, and a half
> time. prophecy?"-
> J: Now you have known that for 20 years.
> So be it. This type of talk wastes time.
M Yes I was getting a bit impatient with you because you seemed to be
mocking me.
M It was your new attitude that turned my anger from you.
I was very disappointed that you were locked in to that what you
could not receive from me.
However I am much elated that you did find your turning point
from somewhere on the net
PTL you and I can now make some head way.
I confess I too argued many hours with my teacher about these things.
> It has strong proof that the 2300 means years.
> I just found the information yesterday - and it may be correct.
> Now thats a paradigm shift!
> And nothing is more difficult than to change ones beliefs.
> Read that post.
> What do you think?
> Also read the post: What do you think?-no.
> What do you think?
PTL Praise The Lord for the shift.
And I am telling you freely what I think and have learned.
Now we can advance in our discussion and hopefully have some fun.
Misty,
Fred A Stover
news:3B533DE1...@pacbell.com...
> Even in his day, the apostle Paul said that "the mystery of iniquity
> doth already work" (2 Thess. 2:7); but he also said that the "man of
> sin" would not be revealed until "the restrainer" is taken out of the
> way. The man of sin is the final Pope. The restrainer is Michael who
> is presently restraining the demonic forces wishing to destroy Israel
> (Dan. 10:21; 12:1).
You have the pope obsession too? Michael stands up [he wasn't standing]
when the restrainer is taken out of the way. Michael wasn't standing because
the work was done: "Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies
thy footstool" (Ps 110:1).
His,
Fred
--
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Verily I say unto you, Whosoever
shall not receive the kingdom of God
as a little child, he shall not enter therein.
(Mark 10:15)
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http://fredstover.topcities.com/
John Abrams
The events in question are about
Alexander conquering Persia and the sanctuary being cleansed. Why are
you bringing up Rome???
that would come out of the 4 kings after Alexander was dead. That Beast
is Rome and that is why it must be addressed here and at this time.
J;
I meant the theory of the 2300 ending in 1967 was based on the time from
Alexander conquering Persia to the time of the Jews owning the Temple
Mount after about 1,800 years.
The beginning and the end of the 2300 must be in Daniel chapter 8.
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
M
Rome followed Greece in the timeline of history.
Daniel 1 is talking about Babylon that fell to the Meads and the
Persians, that fell to Greece, that fell to the Romans, which fell to
the pagans, which fell to the Papacy which receive it deadly wound but
lived and is with us today. However it is still Rome but "Different" as
prophesied it would be different Daniel 7:7 ff. This is why we must put
rome in there.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
I do not believe in the duality of prophecy
,and have several ideas about the mortal wound. When the Pope was
allowed to ..return.. twice, once long ago after being in jail and the
other by Mussolini. And another theory when John Paul II was shot and
the whole world following after him.
He helped bring down the Berlin Wall and the USSR which has allowed the
EU to become what it is today.
No one since Hitler has changed more nations.
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
That was my question.
Was that prophecy fulfilled in 1967????
M
NO!
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J;
OK prove it.
end
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
John Abrams
What does the 2300 have to do with the Roman Empire??
M Much in deed. Most of the prophesies that are not about the messiah
are about those that are against the Creator God and those come out of
Rome, AKA THE FOURTH BEAST.
The whole fourth beast is rome if you take a look in the history books.
J;
I also believe that the Roman Empire is the fourth Beast.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
M I think it was about 168 BC. that rome came into existence and Rome is
the nation that the man of sin was to come out of. All time after Jesus
came out of the grave is considered the end time, That also includes
today.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
resurrected.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
M
168 AD is the beginning of the Fourth beast of Daniel. One beginning for
the 2300 days is 168 BC. (Sorry I did not mean AD. OH I did say BC. See
above. He he he.) so from 168 BC it would either be 2133 AD or just half
like you say, Which would put the end to around 1182 AD. I can not be
sure because I do not know of anything that happened on either of those
dates of much significance as far as the cleansing of the temple is
concerned, or it reconsecration but it could be hidden in history and I
have not yet recognize it yet.
J;
Then you have no proof that the 2300 didn't end in 1967.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
M
Another is, like I said in another post, when the decree to rebuild
Jerusalem. You see Jerusalem was uninhabited by Hebrews form Daniel
Chapter one, because of the Babylonians sacking it around 600 BC.
J;
Babylon left the very poor Jews in Israel after he conquered it the
third time.
I just finished reading Anchor Bible Jeremiah and I am now reading
Anchor Bible Daniel.
The book of Jeremiah is not in chronological order. And much of both
books probably were added after the fact.
Scripture is the most complex puzzle ever designed.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
M
But the DEcree of Daniel 25 was to have gone out 457 BC thence to 1844
AD., as per the Seventh day Adventists. I do not see any thing in
History that was of significance that happened that year either. The SDA
may be able to tell you what they think may have happened that year
though.
J;
SDA used faulty dating thus their results were inaccurate.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
M
Then the other was 70 AD when Rome SAcked Jerusalem that stopped any
temple services form that day to today. That starting date would make it
not yet fulfilled but would in about 2231 AD. I guess we need to look a
little bit deeper to get the right one.
What dates do you have for your starting dates and ending dates?
Anyone else care to make an attempt to place it in a timeline?
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
I still lean toward the 2300 being 1150 days , and there are two
different 1150 day theories I have to investigate.
But the 334bc to 1967ad theory is fascinating.
It opens up whole new vistas of possibilities I never dreamt about.
END
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
M
M That is to show who came into existence first Notice in Daniel 8 it
names the nations that the beast represent. but it does not name Rome as
the last beast so we just look at history to name that one, and it is
still a thorn in our sides today but it did go through some changes.
There was imperial Rome, then pagan Rome, then Papal Rome that received
the deadly wound described in Revelation 13
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
John Abrams
like the way the verse numbers are buried in the text and are hard to
find so fast.
J;
I got this from a website called;
Which bible translation is best?;
The NIV was completed in 1978. Its translators did not attempt to
translate strictly word for word, but aimed more for equivalent ideas.
As a result, the NIV does not follow the exact wording of the original
Greek and Hebrew texts as closely as the KJV and NASB versions do.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J;
I think its important to know what the exact words were. For example I
used to think of the armies attacking Jerusalem as being 200 million in
number.
Then I read that the original word was myriad.
That isn't an exact number.
So it is important to read every possible translation you can find to
try and understand any verse.
There are mistakes with all translations including the KJV. But, it may
be the most accurate.
end
John Abrams
OK, lets see what it is concerned with, oh person with the close mind.
J;
Why do you do that?
You know better than to Judge anyone.
Everyone has a closed mind when it comes to their own sacred beliefs.
Thats why they are difficult to reevaluate.
Valerie gives me /hives/ when it comes to prophecy. She refuses to
answer my questions , brings up annoying points and yet I like her
allot. She should be admired for her ability to get into the scriptures
and dig dig dig.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
M
4. - - - (YOUR ALLEGED STARTING DATE IF YOU HAVE ONE)
J;
What is yours???
Because I havent decided YET, I will go with 334BC to 1967AD.
Valerie believes it is yet future, you believe it was fulfilled in the
past.
I dont know if either of you are correct.
lol ....out of the eater comes something to eat....
end
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
John Abrams
M I said "Take the prophesies that talk about the Great tribulation" and
the dark ages fit perfectly right down to the prophetic 1260 days
prophesied.
J;
Show me in detail what you mean.
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
was something like 50 months I think, and is in Revelation. and may have
meant 50 months and not to be translated with the day for a year key.
J;
What 50 months??
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
M
And Christ has not come to rule the earth.
M Christ never stopped ruling from the time He came out of the Grave.
Prophecy tells what went on with christ's chosen Church during TGT.
J;
Which scriptures show that Jesus is now ruling?
There are 100s of scriptures about that time that have not been
fulfilled.
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
M
However I am much elated that you did find your turning point from
somewhere on the net
J;
What turning point?
Im looking for answers.
Anything else is a waste of time....like right now writting
this....grrrrrrrrrrr
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J;
Read that post.
What do you think?
Also read the post: What do you think?-no. What do you think?
M
PTL Praise The Lord for the shift.
And I am telling you freely what I think and have learned. Now we can
advance in our discussion and hopefully have some fun.
Misty,
J;
I meant what do you think of my post entitled
; What do you think? no. ;
And my other post;
2300 JRC (about 1967)
What do you think about those two posts?
Thats what I was asking.
end
John Abrams
J:
How do you know its not the King, the Beast that will enter the Temple
and do these things?
I assume you apply the term False Prophet to the Pope (last)?
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
JRC:
The restrainer is Michael who is presently restraining the demonic
forces wishing to destroy Israel (Dan. 10:21; 12:1).
Fred:
Michael stands up [he wasn't standing] when the restrainer is taken out
of the way. Michael wasn't standing because the work was done: "Sit thou
at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool" (Ps 110:1).
His,
Fred
J:
Im not sure what Fread means here.
But he has a good point. Michael stands up at this time, he isnt
restrained.
end
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
--
Daniel 12:1 :: King James Version (KJV)
Daniel 12
1
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth
for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble,
such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and
at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be
found written in the book.
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||||||||||||||||||||||||
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever
shall not receive the kingdom of God
as a little child, he shall not enter therein.
(Mark 10:15)
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http://fredstover.topcities.com/
Misty, of the mist.
>
> M I said "Take the prophesies that talk about the Great tribulation" and
> the dark ages fit perfectly right down to the prophetic 1260 days
> prophesied.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J;
> Show me in detail what you mean.
M First we need to read several chapters of the bible and take them
apart by section.
I am not sure I can guess just where you are in your bible study.
One place to start is Daniel and it's parallel with Revelation.
Daniel 2 has a prophecy that spans the last 2500 years.
WE need to read Daniel 1 and 2 and discuss what is there don't you think?
Chapter 1 for history and 2 for the prophecy or projection into it's
future ( that is days and years beyond the date it was written)
A good starting time for our timeline is when Jerusalem was over ran
and captured by "Babylon" (remember this name "Babylon") of which the
Beast of 4 nations into the future as one took over the other in
succession. I gave you the list of nations we found in Daniel 8.
Do you realize Daniel is a sealed or closed book, while Revelation is
a parallel book to it but is an unsealed or open book.
It takes REvelation and the last 2500 years of history to unlock the
book of Daniel. Even Daniel could not guess what it all meant.
But God told the writer of Revelation that he must prophesy again.
That is God needed to use another man to tell man what is going to
happen in the future again, just like HE had Daniel do some 600 years
earlier.
I do not think it is a good idea to get too detailed and to long of a
thesis at this time. Read Daniel 1 and 2 and REvelation 11, 12, and 13.
Then we can discuss what we find there for clues to the GT..
OH and also read Revelation 6 to see how the man of sin would operate
or operates with his forces. Each horse is a different facet to his
government but is a picture of how he (the Beast) operates.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> M Here you may be using 2 separate prophesies, The one of "the danger"
> was something like 50 months I think, and is in Revelation. and may have
> meant 50 months and not to be translated with the day for a year key.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J;
> What 50 months??
You deleted the message a bit to soon so I may be lost to make a good
reflection on what this is about. I was able to retrieve your statement.
"> 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
> J:
> There are many prophecies that speak of Christ coming to rule on the
> earth and the tribulation that happens just before this.
> In the Dark Ages there was no danger of all life being killed if those
> times were not cut short.
> And Christ has not come to rule the earth.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo"
IN your statement above. where did you get;
"danger of all life being killed if those times were not cut short."
If you can show bcv it is in this area where it says about the 50
months I think. I do not have access to where that is in the bible at
this time.
Perhaps you may show me please.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> M
> And Christ has not come to rule the earth?
> M Christ never stopped ruling from the time He came out of the Grave.
> Prophecy tells what went on with christ's chosen Church during TGT.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J;
> Which scriptures show that Jesus is now ruling?
> There are 100s of scriptures about that time that have not been
> fulfilled.
M which show he ever stopped ruling.
Matthew 28:20
20
and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.
And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."
Where is "His second coming" as every one is preaching about ? ? ?
When did the end of the age come? ? ?
It did not come we are still in the age of the end times, as far as
I can establish.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> M
> However I am much elated that you did find your turning point from
> somewhere on the net
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J;
> What turning point?
> Im looking for answers.
> Anything else is a waste of time....like right now writting
> this....grrrrrrrrrrr
M the turning point where you realize the day for a year key.
HO HO HO!
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J;
> Read that post.
> What do you think?
> Also read the post: What do you think?-no. What do you think?
M I have no idea what this is about or what you would like me to
comment on.
What does who think about what? ?
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> M
> PTL Praise The Lord for the shift.
> And I am telling you freely what I think and have learned. Now we can
> advance in our discussion and hopefully have some fun.
> Misty,
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J;
> I meant what do you think of my post entitled
> ; What do you think? no. ;
> And my other post;
> 2300 JRC (about 1967)
> What do you think about those two posts?
> Thats what I was asking.
M what I thought was what was you starting date and why did you use
that starting date.
Misty.
> end
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.thehungersite.com
Misty, of the mist.
If you pigeon hole prophecy like that you will never get out of
the Rut you love so much.
Who are you to attempt to correct others?
Do you want to discuss prophesy or do you want to pretend to be
a school teacher that does not have a clue who her students are or
their ages.
Misty,
Misty, of the mist.
> RE;
> OK, lets see what it is concerned with, oh person with the close mind.
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J;
> Why do you do that?
> You know better than to Judge anyone.
> Everyone has a closed mind when it comes to their own sacred beliefs.
> Thats why they are difficult to reevaluate.
> Valerie gives me /hives/ when it comes to prophecy. She refuses to
> answer my questions , brings up annoying points and yet I like her
> allot. She should be admired for her ability to get into the scriptures
> and dig dig dig.
M
Her and I go back a ways. she knows I will not tolerate her foolishness
but I will answer her questions if in deed she asks one.
I can not keep her attention long enough for her to fallow the bible
passages we were discussing.
She portrays a closed mind when it take a very open mind to realize
the meaning of Prophecy. As you know there is more them one way to
look at and read the bible.
Until she stops her foolishness I will treat her as her words and work
require. I really think she is just a scoffer and not who she says
she is. He, she, it, does not "dig" at all but just annoys those that
are digging.
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> M
> 4. - - - (YOUR ALLEGED STARTING DATE IF YOU HAVE ONE)
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J;
> What is yours???
> Because I havent decided YET, I will go with 334BC to 1967 AD.
> Valerie believes it is yet future, you believe it was fulfilled in the
> past.
> I dont know if either of you are correct.
> lol ....out of the eater comes something to eat...
M
Honey from a dead lion.
(been there done that)
Why do you use the 334 and by what prophetic authority is that date
so biblically important??
The 2300 e & m seems to be after His 4 generals were in power.
notice I am not for sure the real starting date either.
> 3. 334 AD.
Misty, of the mist.
> J:
> What does the 2300 have to do with the Roman Empire??
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> M Much in deed. Most of the prophesies that are not about the messiah
> are about those that are against the Creator God and those come out of
> Rome, AKA THE FOURTH BEAST.
> The whole fourth beast is rome if you take a look in the history books.
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J;
> I also believe that the Roman Empire is the fourth Beast.
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> M I think it was about 168 BC. that rome came into existence and Rome is
> the nation that the man of sin was to come out of. All time after Jesus
> came out of the grave is considered the end time, That also includes
> today.
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J:
> Show the scriptures that say the end times started after Jesus was
> resurrected.
M
like the Rapture not stated in the bible neither is it stated when the
end time started but there is something in Daniel about seal up the
book until the time of the end.
Daniel 12:9
9
He replied, "Go your way, Daniel, because the words are
closed up and sealed until the time of the end.
This too is a time we have to fine the starting date for,
we use the time Jesus was born but that date is not stated in the
bible either. How ever hind sight is 20/20 so if we count back from
when the 70 weeks of years was completed we can find the year Jesus
was born. I think that was 2 to 4 BC.
But we can discuss this later.
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> M
> 168 AD is the beginning of the Fourth beast of Daniel. One beginning for
> the 2300 days is 168 BC. (Sorry I did not mean AD. OH I did say BC. See
> above. He he he.) so from 168 BC it would either be 2133 AD or just half
> like you say, Which would put the end to around 1182 AD. I can not be
> sure because I do not know of anything that happened on either of those
> dates of much significance as far as the cleansing of the temple is
> concerned, or it reconsecration but it could be hidden in history and I
> have not yet recognize it yet.
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J;
> Then you have no proof that the 2300 didn't end in 1967.
M
NO your guess is as good as any one else's. Like I told you this is one
that I do not have nailed down yet. I to am searching.
Nor do I have the 1335 day prophecy nailed down.
I do not know it all as of yet even after over 50 years of bible study.
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> M
> Another is, like I said in another post, when the decree to rebuild
> Jerusalem. You see Jerusalem was uninhabited by Hebrews form Daniel
> Chapter one, because of the Babylonians sacking it around 600 BC.
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J;
> Babylon left the very poor Jews in Israel after he conquered it the
> third time.
> I just finished reading Anchor Bible Jeremiah and I am now reading
> Anchor Bible Daniel.
> The book of Jeremiah is not in chronological order. And much of both
> books probably were added after the fact.
> Scripture is the most complex puzzle ever designed.
M
I have receese Chronological bible and even that is not for sure which
is which in order. Like "Job" it is just there and it is timeless.
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> M
> But the Decree of Daniel 9:25 was to have gone out 457 BC thence to 1844
> AD., as per the Seventh day Adventists. I do not see any thing in
> History that was of significance that happened that year either. The SDA
> may be able to tell you what they think may have happened that year
> though.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J;
> SDA used faulty dating thus their results were inaccurate.
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> M
> Then the other was 70 AD when Rome sacked Jerusalem that stopped any
> temple services form that day to today. That starting date would make it
> not yet fulfilled but would in about 2231 AD. I guess we need to look a
> little bit deeper to get the right one.
> What dates do you have for your starting dates and ending dates?
> Anyone else care to make an attempt to place it in a timeline?
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J;
> I still lean toward the 2300 being 1150 days , and there are two
> different 1150 day theories I have to investigate.
> But the 334bc to 1967ad theory is fascinating.
> It opens up whole new vistas of possibilities I never dreamt about.
> END
M
so 334 bc should make it about 817 and I do know there was no
rebuilding or temple reconsecration going on then either.
Hmm.
Misty, of the mist.
> J:
> The events in question are about
> Alexander conquering Persia and the sanctuary being cleansed. Why are
> you bringing up Rome???
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> M Alexander is in Daniel 8:8 but Verse 9 is telling of the next Beast
> that would come out of the 4 kings after Alexander was dead. That Beast
> is Rome and that is why it must be addressed here and at this time
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J;
> I meant the theory of the 2300 ending in 1967 was based on the time from
> Alexander conquering Persia to the time of the Jews owning the Temple
> Mount after about 1,800 years.
> The beginning and the end of the 2300 must be in Daniel chapter 8.
M
It should not be used because the 2300 came after the 4 horns and
even after the fourth beast is mentioned.
OH here is another starting date.
Maybe it was form the time Daniel was getting the visions.
I do not have that date in my study notes, as per when he was getting
which vision or when it occurred in history.
Just a thought though.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> M
> Rome followed Greece in the timeline of history.
> Daniel 1 is talking about Babylon that fell to the Meads and the
> Persians, that fell to Greece, that fell to the Romans, which fell to
> the pagans, which fell to the Papacy which receive it deadly wound but
> lived and is with us today. However it is still Rome but "Different" as
> prophesied it would be different Daniel 7:7 ff. This is why we must put
> rome in there.
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J;
> I do not believe in the duality of prophecy
> ,and have several ideas about the mortal wound. When the Pope was
> allowed to ..return.. twice, once long ago after being in jail and the
> other by Mussolini. And another theory when John Paul II was shot and
> the whole world following after him.
> He helped bring down the Berlin Wall and the USSR which has allowed the
> EU to become what it is today.
> No one since Hitler has changed more nations.
M
I do not know what you are talking about in duality.
The mortal wound was not mortal at all but deadly add only a wound.
so it did not kill it but only wound it so it was put out of commission
for a while.
This happened most assuredly in history 1798 when Napoleon arrested
the pope at that time and put him in prison where he died.
some deceivers say he did not die but there was no pope to finish out
that year nor any other year until 1929 when Mussolini reinstated a
pope. I think it was pias XII. but it was a lot smaller territory but
he goes out to deceive the entire world form there.
Yes this one fits the 1260 day prophesy totaly.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J:
> That was my question.
> Was that prophecy fulfilled in 1967????
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> M
> NO!
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J;
> OK prove it.
> end
M
There too, there was not reconcecration of any temple on earth.
So I am thinking the temple may be the one that is mentioned in
Revelation 21 and 22. It could be here and no one but the wise
can know where it is. (you know the saints)
Misty,
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.thehungersite.com
Misty, of the mist.
> Re:
> I like the way the NIV is put together and the way it reads but I do not
> like the way the verse numbers are buried in the text and are hard to
> find so fast.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J;
> I got this from a website called;
> Which bible translation is best?;
> The NIV was completed in 1978. Its translators did not attempt to
> translate strictly word for word, but aimed more for equivalent ideas.
> As a result, the NIV does not follow the exact wording of the original
> Greek and Hebrew texts as closely as the KJV and NASB versions do.
M
The net is not a real authority either as to which bible is better.
The KJV was put together by 12, while the NIV was put together by
hundreds.
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J;
> I think its important to know what the exact words were. For example I
> used to think of the armies attacking Jerusalem as being 200 million in
> number.
> Then I read that the original word was myriad.
> That isn't an exact number.
> So it is important to read every possible translation you can find to
> try and understand any verse.
> There are mistakes with all translations including the KJV. But, it may
> be the most accurate.
> end
M
Book chapter and verse is needed here for the 2 hundred million.
This may be a number that was quoted after Jerusalem was sacked in 70 ad.
and is talking about a whole new or different battle.
Misty,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.thehungersite.com
VALERIE J SOUTHARD
John Abrams <ABRAM...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:21246-3B5...@storefull-108.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
RE:
Stick with only what the 2300 days specifically is concerned with.
Certain things happen during those 2300 days. What is one of them?
host tread under
So what verse is that?
Start the 2300 days.
Valerie
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
'Quoting' Misty, Whats your timeline?
How do you see the 2300 days beginning an ending?
What happens on the 1st day?
What happens on the 2300th day?
end
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Daniel 8 :: King James Version (KJV)
Daniel 8
1
In the third year of the reign of king Belshazzar a vision appeared unto
me, even unto me Daniel, after that which appeared unto me at the first.
a vision
concerning - this -
so the 2300 days starts here
host tread under
The host is not tread under at v. 2.
10
And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of
the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
11
Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the
daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast
down.
12
And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of
transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it
practised, and prospered.
13
Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that
certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the
daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the
sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
14
And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then
shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
The 2300 days end when Jesus returns at the 7th trumpet.
After that the sanctuary shall be cleansed/
but before that the host and then later (before the 2300 days are over) the
sanctuary too will be tread under.
v. 13 - to give both - tread under foot
Valerie
VALERIE J SOUTHARD
John Abrams <JAbr...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:19690-3B...@storefull-173.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Valerie gives me /hives/ when it comes to prophecy. She refuses to
answer my questions , brings up annoying points and yet I like her
allot. She should be admired for her ability to get into the scriptures
and dig dig dig.
****
I don't recall ever saying that I refuse to answer your questions.
If this was an Idea from Misty - well, I don't even read her posts.
She believes that Jesus came in the time of Mary (when in the garden) and
raptured her.
The dead did not rise of the all of the just.
Jesus did not come from heaven - as He told her that he had not yet ascended
to
the Father - so she was not to touch HIm.
John 14:2 tells us that Jesus will go away to prepare a place for us and
then
He come again.
In the days of Mary - He had yet to go away and prepare the place.
As for giving you hives - I'm not sure what you are saying.
I hope my notes help you learn truth.
I pray they help people learn how to learn.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
M
4. - - - (YOUR ALLEGED STARTING DATE IF YOU HAVE ONE)
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J;
What is yours???
Because I havent decided YET, I will go with 334BC to 1967AD.
Valerie believes it is yet future, you believe it was fulfilled in the
past.
I dont know if either of you are correct.
lol ....out of the eater comes something to eat....
end
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
**********
I thought you saw the little horn as the beast?
v. 9 - out of one of them came forth a little horn
If this prophecy was over in 1967 - then who was the little horn?
The host is not tread under (as in v.10) till the time of the litte horn?
How could the 2300 days start before the little horn is here ruling?
Also, don't you think that the time of the verses up to v. 8 would use the
Hebrew calendar?
Then same for after those.
Do you realize the difference in the number of years from the time of the
Medes to the Greeks?
and the little horn?
In Rev. - we know that the bible was still using the 30 days a month as
42 months - 1260 days
Valerie
John Abrams
Book chapter and verse is needed here for the 2 hundred million. This
may be a number that was quoted after Jerusalem was sacked in 70 ad. and
is talking about a whole new or different battle.
Misty,
J:
Revelation 9:16 :: King James Version (KJV)
Revelation 9
16
And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand
thousand: and I heard the number of them.
Misty, of the mist.
> J:
> The events in question are about
> Alexander conquering Persia and the sanctuary being cleansed. Why are
> you bringing up Rome???
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> M Alexander is in Daniel 8:8 but Verse 9 is telling of the next Beast
> that would come out of the 4 kings after Alexander was dead. That Beast
> is Rome and that is why it must be addressed here and at this time.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J;
> I meant the theory of the 2300 ending in 1967 was based on the time from
> Alexander conquering Persia to the time of the Jews owning the Temple
> Mount after about 1,800 years.
> The beginning and the end of the 2300 must be in Daniel chapter 8.
M
Here we must stick to the one prophecy; the "2300"
Your starting date is in question. therefore the ending date also must
be in question.
Why do you use Alexander to be the one that it talks about when the very
next verse it talks about some one else
Daniel 8:8 talks about Alexander, and his 4 general.
Daniel 8:9 is talking about the next "Beast" and it's leaders or office.
I think the 2300 is about that beast even the later leader that would
be the man of sin. So we need to apply the starting date when Greece fell
and Rome came into world power. Rome came into power 168 BC. but I just
can not find a reason to start the 2300 at 168 BC. either.
However the 2300 should end some time right after the dark ages or
what was the Great Tribulation, because many people, (evangelists) stood up at
that time.; Westly, Martin luther, Ellen white, and others that started
the different denominations of churches that were hot as firecrackers but
today have gone quite luke warm as the Laodicean church of Revelation 3:14.
There is a specific prophecy for the time that the man of sin would be
in power though and that time period to would be within the 2300 but
would only be 1260 p. days. So o it would fit within the 2300 days.
Wouldn't it be nice if both prophesies ended at the same date or year?
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> M
> Rome followed Greece in the timeline of history.
> Daniel 1 is talking about Babylon that fell to the Meads and the
> Persians, that fell to Greece, that fell to the Romans, which fell to
> the pagans, which fell to the Papacy which receive it deadly wound but
> lived and is with us today. However it is still Rome but "Different" as
> prophesied it would be different Daniel 7:7 ff. This is why we must put
> rome in there.
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J;
> I do not believe in the duality of prophecy
> ,and have several ideas about the mortal wound. When the Pope was
> allowed to ..return.. twice, once long ago after being in jail and the
> other by Mussolini. And another theory when John Paul II was shot and
> the whole world following after him.
> He helped bring down the Berlin Wall and the USSR which has allowed the
> EU to become what it is today.
> No one since Hitler has changed more nations.
M
I do not know what you are looking at that makes a duality.
I see it as linear. That is one follows the other in succession.
There is parallels though.
like the christian church and the apostate church both in existence at
the same time and for a really long time.
When comparing the Timeline of the bible and the timeline of history
we have to put one next to the other in parallel for comparison.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J:
> That was my question.
> Was that prophecy fulfilled in 1967????
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> M
> NO!
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J;
> OK prove it.
> end
M
It may very well have been fulfilled before that time to usher in
the age of the churches, that all bloomed up right after the Rcc
received is deadly wound in 1798. and all "hell" broke out. (here
I use Hell as "Truth", so I mean when God's Truth broke out and was no
longer suppressed by The Roman Church, as it had been all during
the dark ages.
That Beast is gaining in courage and power again but
if you look at the stock market you can see that it may soon be
destroyed totally and the prophecy of Revelation 18 will be fulfilled.
Misty,
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
>
>
> http://www.thehungersite.com
Misty, of the mist.
here that is why it is called Biblical Theology.
The bible says it and History shows it.
WE have to find where history showed it is all or we must apply it to
some events in history to prove out what has already happened.
if it does not prove out then we bust speculate that it may not
have been fulfilled yet.
These just simple rules of bible Theology.
John Abrams wrote:
> J:
> What does the 2300 have to do with the Roman Empire??
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> M Much in deed. Most of the prophesies that are not about the messiah
> are about those that are against the Creator God and those come out of
> Rome, AKA THE FOURTH BEAST.
> The whole fourth beast is rome if you take a look in the history books.
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J;
> I also believe that the Roman Empire is the fourth Beast.
M kewl.
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> M I think it was about 168 BC. that rome came into existence and Rome is
> the nation that the man of sin was to come out of. All time after Jesus
> came out of the grave is considered the end time, That also includes
> today.
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J:
> Show the scriptures that say the end times started after Jesus was
> resurrected.
M
I am not sure there is a bible passage that says that.
But it is understood that the New Testament (witness) time is the
end times. Therefore we are still living in biblical times.
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> M
> 168 AD is the beginning of the Fourth beast of Daniel. One beginning for
> the 2300 days is 168 BC. (Sorry I did not mean AD. OH I did say BC. See
> above. He he he.) so from 168 BC it would either be 2133 AD or just half
> like you say, Which would put the end to around 1182 AD. I can not be
> sure because I do not know of anything that happened on either of those
> dates of much significance as far as the cleansing of the temple is
> concerned, or it reconsecration but it could be hidden in history and I
> have not yet recognize it yet.
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J;
> Then you have no proof that the 2300 didn't end in 1967.
M
about proof see above.
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> M
> Another is, like I said in another post, when the decree to rebuild
> Jerusalem. You see Jerusalem was uninhabited by Hebrews form Daniel
> Chapter one, because of the Babylonians sacking it around 600 BC.
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J;
> Babylon left the very poor Jews in Israel after he conquered it the
> third time.
> I just finished reading Anchor Bible Jeremiah and I am now reading
> Anchor Bible Daniel.
> The book of Jeremiah is not in chronological order. And much of both
> books probably were added after the fact.
> Scripture is the most complex puzzle ever designed.
M
The bible is written so a child can understand it, yet the most learned
professor can not get to the bottom of it.
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> M
> But the DEcree of Daniel 25 was to have gone out 457 BC thence to 1844
> AD., as per the Seventh day Adventists. I do not see any thing in
> History that was of significance that happened that year either. The SDA
> may be able to tell you what they think may have happened that year
> though.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J;
> SDA used faulty dating thus their results were inaccurate
Why was theirs any more faulty then anyone else?
And who says they are using faulty dating? The Rcc?
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> M
> Then the other was 70 AD when Rome SAcked Jerusalem that stopped any
> temple services form that day to today. That starting date would make it
> not yet fulfilled but would in about 2231 AD. I guess we need to look a
> little bit deeper to get the right one.
> What dates do you have for your starting dates and ending dates?
> Anyone else care to make an attempt to place it in a timeline?
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J;
> I still lean toward the 2300 being 1150 days , and there are two
> different 1150 day theories I have to investigate.
> But the 334bc to 1967ad theory is fascinating.
> It opens up whole new vistas of possibilities I never dreamt about.
> END
M
We must look at all possible theories to come up with a good one
to use.
I am totally baffled as to which one to use, especially for the
2300 Day prophesy. This for the simple reason it says "Evenings
and morning" and not just days as is some times mentioned in Prophecy.
Misty,
Misty, of the mist.
Here you should use the bible book chapter and verse so we too and
see what may be the problem
John Abrams
John Abrams
Jews in Israel have not to this date yet been able to touch the site of
the Mosque that is sitting on the very spot of where the old temple was
in 70 AD.
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
Scripture doesnt say that a Temple will exist at the time of the
cleansing.
Perhaps all the scholars pushing their Temple wasnt located where the
Dome of the Rock stands, type of book, are correct.
Many believe that the Temple was located just north of the Dome of the
Rock, and this place is controlled by Israel.
Daniel 8:14 may have been fulfilled in 1967.
end
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Re: -2300 days- M
Group: alt.bible.prophecy Date: Sun, Jul 22, 2001, 6:14pm From:
ABRAM...@webtv.net (John Abrams)
RE:
M That is how we use it to put it in a timeline; There were 4 others
that ruled after Alexander and out of one of those four was the start of
the Roman Empire the nation that indeed sacked Jerusalem in 70 AD. and
took away the daily sacrifice.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
What does the 2300 have to do with the Roman Empire??
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo RE:
M I think it was about 168 BC. that rome came into existence and Rome is
the nation that the man of sin was to come out of. All time after Jesus
came out of the grave is considered the end time, That also includes
today.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
This post is about the 2300.
Why bring up 168 AD?
Where do you have the 2300 in your timeline? I know of two that are both
based on day for a year. Do you know of -any?
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo RE:
Why place these events together???
M That is to show who came into existence first Notice in Daniel 8 it
names the nations that the beast represent. but it does not name Rome as
the last beast so we just look at history to name that one, and it is
still a thorn in our sides today but it did go through some changes.
There was imperial Rome, then pagan Rome, then Papal Rome that received
the deadly wound described in Revelation 13
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
The events in question are about
Alexander conquering Persia and the sanctuary being cleansed. Why are
you bringing up Rome???
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo RE:
M It is very good that a timeline is being used here but I wonder just
Why we must start that 2300 days from that date of 334 BC.?
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
That is -when- Alexander conquered Persia, in 334 BC. The -vision- is
about Alexander conquering Persia.
2300 years later -exactly- Israel got back the Temple Mount after more
than 1,000 years!
Thats why 334BC is used, its what this entire post was all about.
oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo RE:M
How are we to assume that the santuary was cleansed at that time? The
Jews in Israel have not to this date yet been able to touch the site of
the Mosque that is sitting on the very spot of where the old temple was
in 70 AD.
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
That was my question.
Was that prophecy fulfilled in 1967????
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo RE:
M Like I said I do not think that we can assume that, because the temple
remains in the hands of the Muslims.
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
The Temple Mount IS ISRAELI territory, they own it now. A foolish
general allowed the Arabs to have 'control'. But it now belongs to
Israel.
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo RE:
The SDA claimed the fulfillment date to be 1844.
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
J:
The SDA used faulty dating.
I have this information if you want it.
John Abrams
http://www.thehungersite.com
Ginger
Nov.17th,1971-Dec.29th,2000
yardh...@home.com
Thank you for bringing this thread forward.
John Abrams wrote:
>
> oooooooo RE:M
> How are we to assume that the sanctuary was cleansed at that time? The
> Jews in Israel have not to this date yet been able to touch the site of
> the Mosque that is sitting on the very spot of where the old temple was
> in 70 AD.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J:
> What exactly does sanctuary mean?
> Scripture doesnt say that a Temple will exist at the time of the
> cleansing.
M:
Daniel 8:14,
14 He said to me, "It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then
the sanctuary will be
reconsecrated."
(NIV)
14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred
days; then shall the sanctuary be
cleansed.
(KJV)
Cleansed or reconsecrated, I do not think it is talking about the temple
either.
However there had to be something happen to the Christian Church right after the
Great TRibulation.
I think this is the time from 1798 AD. and forward. God had to do something
to bring His Church (bride) back out of the wilderness.
Israel rejected God and Jesus 2000 years ago and crucified Jesus,
Now we must realize God is not going to have them rebuild his New Jerusalem is
He? The rebuilding of the temple and the Sanctuary would be and on going thing
just like the Rapture is.
The New Jerusalem will be coming down out of heaven and not built by human
hands.
The "building" and reconsecrating will now be done by God Himself on a
spiritual level.
See Revelation 21.
> Perhaps all the scholars pushing their Temple wasn't located where the
> That is to show who came into existence first. Notice in Daniel 8 it
> names the nations that the beast represent. but it does not name Rome as
> the last beast so we just look at history to name that one, and it is
> still a thorn in our sides today but it did go through some changes.
> There was imperial Rome, then pagan Rome, then Papal Rome that received
> the deadly wound described in Revelation 13
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J:
> The events in question are about
> Alexander conquering Persia and the sanctuary being cleansed. Why are
> you bringing up Rome???
M
The events in question are the succession of nations.
there is that beastly nation after the 4 horns, and the recleansing takes
place after the ten horned beast shows up.
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo RE:
> M It is very good that a timeline is being used here but I wonder just
> Why we must start that 2300 days from that date of 334 BC.?
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J:
> That is -when- Alexander conquered Persia, in 334 BC. The -vision- is
> about Alexander conquering Persia.
> 2300 years later -exactly- Israel got back the Temple Mount after more
> than 1,000 years!
> Thats why 334BC is used, its what this entire post was all about.
M:
Why and by what biblical authority are we to use the time of the greeks when
there is another nation that comes into power between the 4 horns and 2300 day
It is mentioned in Daniel 8:9-12.
9 Out of one of them came another horn, which started small
but grew in power to the south and to the east and toward the
Beautiful Land.
10 It grew until it reached the host of the heavens, and it
threw some of the starry host down to the earth and trampled
on them.
11 It set itself up to be as great as the Prince of the host;
it took away the daily sacrifice from him, and the place of
his sanctuary was brought low.
12 Because of rebellion, the host [of the saints][1] and the
daily sacrifice were given over to it. It prospered in everything
it did, and truth was thrown to the ground.
(foot note)
1.[12] Or rebellion, the armies
This is why it can not be Alexander but the time the little horn's nation
started. of which started in 168 BC., if my notes are correct.
> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo RE:M
> How are we to assume that the santuary was cleansed at that time? The
> Jews in Israel have not to this date yet been able to touch the site of
> the Mosque that is sitting on the very spot of where the old temple was
> in 70 AD.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J:
> That was my question.
> Was that prophecy fulfilled in 1967????
M:
I think I covered this above. and it was not at that time nor did it involve
the Children of Israel's nation because of the rejection.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo RE:
> M Like I said I do not think that we can assume that, because the temple
> remains in the hands of the Muslims.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J:
> The Temple Mount IS ISRAELI territory, they own it now. A foolish
> general allowed the Arabs to have 'control'. But it now belongs to
> Israel.
M.
Jewish law prohibits the nation of Israel from even touching the mosque.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo RE:
> The SDA claimed the fulfillment date to be 1844.
> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
> J:
> The SDA used faulty dating.
> I have this information if you want it.
M:
I know the SDA is in error in several thing but until someone comes along
with a better, more believable application, I will be floating and not seeing
the exact dates needed for this particular prophecy.
I will look at the info you may have to share.
Does you computer allow you to double space?
Misty,
ooo
yardh...@home.com
resending to refersh the thread.
misty,