Dwindling Muslim Support for Terrorism
John Manning
Among the most striking trends in predominantly Muslim nations is the
continuing decline in the number saying that suicide bombing and other
forms of violence against civilians are justifiable in the defense of Islam.
In Lebanon, Bangladesh, Pakistan and Indonesia, the proportion of
Muslims who view suicide bombing and other attacks against civilians as
being often or sometimes justified has declined by half or more over the
past five years.
Wide majorities say such attacks are, at most, rarely acceptable.
However, this is decidedly not the case in the Palestinian territories.
Fully 70% of Palestinians believe that suicide bombings against
civilians can be often or sometimes justified, a position starkly at
odds with Muslims in other Middle Eastern, Asian, and African nations.
See Chart: http://pewglobal.org/reports/images/257-8.gif
Pew Global Attitudes Project - Public Opinion Surveys
Survey Sample - 47 Nations 45,239 Interviews
* Includes the Palestinian territories.
Bitterscroll
So what is the point of your post John Manning?
Ike E 11/16/09
"John Manning" <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote in message
news:RbCdnan2hIdrWpTW...@giganews.com...
>
>
> Among the most striking trends in predominantly Muslim nations is the
> continuing decline in the number saying that suicide bombing and other
> forms of violence against civilians are justifiable in the defense of
> Islam.
>
> In Lebanon, Bangladesh, Pakistan and Indonesia, the proportion of Muslims
> who view suicide bombing and other attacks against civilians as being
> often or sometimes justified has declined by half or more over the past
> five years.
>
> Wide majorities say such attacks are, at most, rarely acceptable. However,
> this is decidedly not the case in the Palestinian territories. Fully 70%
> of Palestinians believe that suicide bombings against civilians can be
> often or sometimes justified, a position starkly at odds with Muslims in
> other Middle Eastern, Asian, and African nations.
Yeah right.
That's what the Muslim countries tell THE MEDIA at the same time that
they're sponsoring terrorist camps in their countries, and terrorizing
people into Islamic rule, as in Africa.
Ike
John Manning
You can't read?
Bitterscroll
wrote:
> "John Manning" <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
I agree with Ike.
I think that either you have been duped by Islamic propaganda and have
never read the Koran for yourself; or you are an Islamic sympathizer.
John Manning
Have you read the Old Testament? Here's a sample of the atrocities and
war crimes you'll find within its pages:
Bible: Numbers 31:1-54 - Under God's direction, Moses' army defeats the
Midianites. They kill all the adult males, but take the women and
children captive.
When Moses learns that they left some live, he angrily says: "Have you
saved all the women alive? Kill every male among the little ones, and
kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the
women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive
for yourselves."
So they went back and did as Moses (and presumably God) instructed,
killing everyone except for the virgins. In this way they got 32,000
virgins -- Wow!
= = =
Does that condemn Christians and Jews as war criminals who commit
atrocities?
Maybe you can justify the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi men, women and
children who've been killed in Iraq - WHO HAD NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH
9/11.
Maybe you can justify the over 4,500 of our American soldiers who've
been killed in Iraq and the countless thousands more who have horrible
permanent war injuries.
Your hateful bigotry is a disease, fella.
SwordoZ
SoZ:
Otherwise known during Bill Clinton's presidency as ... "collaterial
damage".
> When Moses learns that they left some live, he angrily says: "Have you
> saved all the women alive? Kill every male among the little ones, and
> kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the
> women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive
> for yourselves."
SoZ:
What's the big deal.
An evolution mentality refers to that as ... survival of the fittest.
> So they went back and did as Moses (and presumably God) instructed,
> killing everyone except for the virgins. In this way they got 32,000
> virgins -- Wow!
SoZ:
Jealously will get you nowhere.
> Does that condemn Christians and Jews as war criminals who commit
> atrocities?
SoZ:
Not according to the humanistic ways of man.
> Maybe you can justify the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi men, women and
> children who've been killed in Iraq - WHO HAD NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH
> 9/11.
SoZ:
"Collaterial damage" as stated previously.
> Maybe you can justify the over 4,500 of our American soldiers who've
> been killed in Iraq and the countless thousands more who have horrible
> permanent war injuries.
SoZ:
History will decide ... not you nor anyone else.
> Your hateful bigotry is a disease, fella.
SoZ
Ike E 11/23/9
"Bitterscroll" <vkl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c99d5c15-dd80-42aa...@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
[snip]
> I agree with Ike.
> I think that either you have been duped by Islamic propaganda and have
> never read the Koran for yourself; or you are an Islamic sympathizer.
He's really a universalist--see, the politically uncompromising Gospel of
Jesus Christ allows for no "fudge factor:" You're either a Christian, or
something else.
This is a damn nuisance to fools who think they can create world peace by
their own hands, so they have to find way to "legitimize" the religions of
man, in particular, Islam.
(And as I've said before, every person from every other religion in the
world would get into the Kingdom of God before ONE SINGLE MUSLIM--what the
Gentiles did, they did in ignorance, as Paul writes "beforetimes God winked
at these things;" but what the Islamic bastards did they did ON PURPOSE, to
DELIBERATELY undermine both the Old and New Testaments by...
1) Reversing the roles of the rejected and accepted sons in the OT, and
2) Minimizing Jesus Christ.
All this came about because of the SAME JEALOUSY that the other "Semites"
have displayed ever since God tossed them aside as useless for His purposes.
Ike
Ike E 11/23/9
[snip]
>> I agree with Ike.
>> I think that either you have been duped by Islamic propaganda and have
>> never read the Koran for yourself; or you are an Islamic sympathizer.
>
>
> Have you read the Old Testament? Here's a sample of the atrocities and
> war crimes you'll find within its pages:
Now John tries to make his case by equivocation.
But his REAL driving force is the politics of the profane, i.e.
"universalism," NOT for religious reasons, but for THE SAKE OF POLITICAL
EXPEDIENCY.
See, John is one of those fools who thinks that PEACE is actually
attainable, NOT knowing that the peace of God and the peace of the world ARE
DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED, as James wrote...
Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of
the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the
world is the enemy of God.
Unbeknownst to John (or is it that he refuses to accept the truth?) one
CANNOT BE on the world's side and on God's side at the same time, for they
are MUTUALLY INCOMPATIBLE.
And thus, John and his ilk HAVE to find a way to shut down true
Christianity--it fucks with their global agenda. So it starts with false
accusations, then moves on to persecutions, and then discriminations, but in
the end, they'll be doing it with "the sword."
Nevertheless, they won't prevail...
Re 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that
killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience
and the faith of the saints.
[snip the rest of the dawdle discredited by John's own private agenda]
Ike
Lee
"Bitterscroll" <vkl...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c99d5c15-dd80-42aa...@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
-----------------------------
Very Western sounding name but his posts are repetitive and unoriginal
just like any other of the 3 arselifters on the NG's and their 100+
aliases, most likely real name Mohammed al Sock
Teresita
> In Lebanon, Bangladesh, Pakistan and Indonesia, the proportion of
> Muslims who view suicide bombing and other attacks against civilians as
> being often or sometimes justified has declined by half or more over the
> past five years.
Sure, down from 1.2 billion to just six hundred million.
--
Teresita
http://hackylinux.blogspot.com/
coaste...@yahoo.com
How can this be? The last time I checked with our experts, Sharavi and
Ratner, terrorism was lodged deep in Muslim genes and thus inevitable.
No external factors mattered and we thus had no choice but to conquer
the entire Muslim world in our war against terror, starting at present
with Iran.
coaste...@yahoo.com
Attacking the messenger rather than analyzing the message is medieval.
"Islamic" propaganda hardly exists in the West anyway . It requires an
understanding of Islam which is conspicuously absent there. There is a
lot of posing about "having read the Koran" but still a sea of
ignorance.
As with any other ideology the key is to evaluate what the adherents
do, far more than what they say. That, for example, was important
regarding the Soviets who were radical in propaganda but conservative
in actual policy.
John Manning
The survey just HAS to be fake. After all, Muslims are really
sub-humans, like undocumented immigrants and communists and liberals. Of
course.
coaste...@yahoo.com
Neither is that disease based on any national interest nor does it
even possess an exit strategy. It's a disease of the brain.
How do these people think they are supporting their own countries
when they spew nothing more thoughtful than racist anger?
American foreign policy is global and extremely complex in both
interests and responsibilities. Even based completely on self-interest
we can't run it on nothing more thoughtful than racism and hatred. It
must be self-interested, of course, but fascist regimes self-destruct
rapidly. Hitler's regime of racism and hate lasted only 12 years. The
Israelis, who believe they have higher ideals, but behave like
fascists, have lasted longer but only because they've been able to
coerce American support. They don't even have internationally
recognized borders.
Disregard the Israelis for a moment; what does this situation do for
the West? Put crudely, what's in this blind support of Israeli
criminality against Muslims FOR US? What's OUR stake in it? What's in
this endless alienation of the Muslim World FOR US?
Nothing, damn it! Then why do we do it?
coaste...@yahoo.com
wrote:
> "John Manning" <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote in message
>
> news:bqudnZfdwrOiXZfW...@giganews.com...
>
> > Bitterscroll wrote:
> >> On Nov 23, 12:33 am, "Ike E 11/16/09" <xhermaneicklebe...@gmail.com>
>
> [snip]
>
> >> I agree with Ike.
> >> I think that either you have been duped by Islamic propaganda and have
> >> never read the Koran for yourself; or you are an Islamic sympathizer.
>
> > Have you read the Old Testament? Here's a sample of the atrocities and
> > war crimes you'll find within its pages:
>
> Now John tries to make his case by equivocation.
>
> But his REAL driving force is the politics of the profane, i.e.
> "universalism," NOT for religious reasons, but for THE SAKE OF POLITICAL
> EXPEDIENCY.
>
> See, John is one of those fools who thinks that PEACE is actually
> attainable, NOT knowing that the peace of God and the peace of the world ARE
> DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED, as James wrote...
What awful self-defeating nonsense.
>
> Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of
> the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the
> world is the enemy of God.
>
> Unbeknownst to John (or is it that he refuses to accept the truth?) one
> CANNOT BE on the world's side and on God's side at the same time, for they
> are MUTUALLY INCOMPATIBLE.
>
> And thus, John and his ilk HAVE to find a way to shut down true
> Christianity--it fucks with their global agenda. So it starts with false
> accusations, then moves on to persecutions, and then discriminations, but in
> the end, they'll be doing it with "the sword."
>
> Nevertheless, they won't prevail...
>
> Re 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that
> killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience
> and the faith of the saints.
>
> [snip the rest of the dawdle discredited by John's own private agenda]
>
> Ike
John, you're hanging out with the wrong crowd.
Ike E 12/10/2009
"icono...@yahoo.com" <coaste...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ad98e3d4-4fc4-4c4b...@u1g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
[snip]
> Attacking the messenger rather than analyzing the message is medieval.
> "Islamic" propaganda hardly exists in the West anyway . It requires an
> understanding of Islam which is conspicuously absent there. There is a
> lot of posing about "having read the Koran" but still a sea of
> ignorance.
LOL
Having read the Koran, I can tell you it's a crock.
There are only two things that one has to know to understand Islam.
Lie of jealousy #1: Reverse the roles between the accepted sons and the
rejected sons.
Lie of jealousy #2: Minimize Jesus Christ as Lord-God-King of all.
> As with any other ideology the key is to evaluate what the adherents
> do, far more than what they say.
That's precisely right, and the "adherents" of the Islamic "ideology"
created their nonsense in a jealous rage during the sixth century because 1)
the Jews were still around, and 2) Christianity was giving the promises of
Abraham to the Gentiles for free which the rejected sons of Hagar lusted
after from the very beginning.
Thus was born the abominable lies of Islam.
Ike
Ike E 12/10/2009
[snip]
> The survey just HAS to be fake. After all, Muslims are really sub-humans,
> like undocumented immigrants and communists and liberals. Of course.
Nah. They're LOWER than that.
What the nations of the Gentiles did with their religions, they did out of
ignorance, or, as Paul put it...
Acts 17:22-31
Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens,
I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious: For as I passed by,
and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE
UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord
of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands, neither is
worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth
to all life, and breath, and all things; and hath made of one blood all
nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath
determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation,
that they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find
him, though he be not far from every one of us: For in him we live, and
move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For
we are also his offspring.
Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think
that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and
man's device.
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all
men every where to repent, because he hath appointed a day, in the which he
will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained;
whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him
from the dead.
What the Muslims did, they did ON PURPOSE, AFTER THE FACT.
Pretty much every person of every other religion in the world would get into
the Kingdom of Heaven before one single Muslim.
Ike
John Manning
LOL...
Ike E 12/10/2009
[snip]
> Disregard the Israelis for a moment; what does this situation do for
> the West?
Typical secular asshole: "What's in it for us?" "Where does our profit
margin lie?" "What's in our best SELF-interest?"
Your very attitude demonstrates whose side your on (although I'm quite sure
you're not aware of it)...
...SATAN'S!
[snip]
Ike
Ike E 12/10/2009
> On Nov 23, 8:18 pm, "Ike E 11/23/9" <xhermaneicklebe...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> "John Manning" <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote in message
>
>> news:bqudnZfdwrOiXZfW...@giganews.com...
>
>>> Bitterscroll wrote:
>>>> On Nov 23, 12:33 am, "Ike E 11/16/09" <xhermaneicklebe...@gmail.com>
>
>> [snip]
>
>>>> I agree with Ike.
>>>> I think that either you have been duped by Islamic propaganda and have
>>>> never read the Koran for yourself; or you are an Islamic sympathizer.
>
>>> Have you read the Old Testament? Here's a sample of the atrocities and
>>> war crimes you'll find within its pages:
>
>> Now John tries to make his case by equivocation.
>
>> But his REAL driving force is the politics of the profane, i.e.
>> "universalism," NOT for religious reasons, but for THE SAKE OF POLITICAL
>> EXPEDIENCY.
>
>> See, John is one of those fools who thinks that PEACE is actually
>> attainable, NOT knowing that the peace of God and the peace of the world
>> ARE
>> DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED, as James wrote...
> What awful self-defeating nonsense.
Nope. Spiritual reality.
Satan offered Jesus all the kingdoms of the world "in an instant," meaning
of all time, and Jesus forsook them for all mankind's sake.
Your materialism and globalism belie your position, "Satan."
>> Jas 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship
>> of
>> the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the
>> world is the enemy of God.
>
>> Unbeknownst to John (or is it that he refuses to accept the truth?) one
>> CANNOT BE on the world's side and on God's side at the same time, for
>> they
>> are MUTUALLY INCOMPATIBLE.
>
>> And thus, John and his ilk HAVE to find a way to shut down true
>> Christianity--it fucks with their global agenda. So it starts with false
>> accusations, then moves on to persecutions, and then discriminations, but
>> in
>> the end, they'll be doing it with "the sword."
>
>> Nevertheless, they won't prevail...
>
>> Re 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that
>> killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the
>> patience
>> and the faith of the saints.
>
>> [snip the rest of the dawdle discredited by John's own private agenda]
>
>> Ike
> John, you're hanging out with the wrong crowd.
That he is--the "Babylonians."
Ike
MCE Junkie
wrote:
Ike,
Your two points about Islam are accuarate. You have summed up the
problem, and you did not have to write a book. Jealousy! I try to warn
people about Islam, but they do not listen. Islam is just an earthly
fraternity built on jealousy, not a religion. They say that virgins
are waiting in heaven for martyres.
But my question is: How will they get to heaven?
They do not believe in Jesus Christ and the resurrection. They have to
believe that Jesus rose from the dead, conquered death and prepared a
way for them to get to heaven. Islam does not believe that, so they
really have no proof that heaven exists.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> Pretty much every person of every other religion in the world would get into
> the Kingdom of Heaven before one single Muslim.
>
> Ike
You're nuts, Ike. This Kingdom of Heaven stuff is pure imagination,
pure invention. It's self-defeating too. "God" is not going to save
us. We're on our own. We must think for ourselves. Before us were big
toothy lizards and terrestrial crocodiles which terrorized the planet.
They're still here in the form of ideological humans.
coaste...@yahoo.com
wrote:
> "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:9b9a6d2a-b516-4d15...@w19g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>
> [snip]
>
> > Disregard the Israelis for a moment; what does this situation do for
> > the West?
>
> Typical secular asshole: "What's in it for us?" "Where does our profit
> margin lie?" "What's in our best SELF-interest?"
So, if we're not supporting Israeli expansion in our own interest,
just why the hell are we doing it?
> Your very attitude demonstrates whose side your on (although I'm quite sure
> you're not aware of it)...
>
> ...SATAN'S!
Satan is a fantasy just as are both Heaven and Hell and men and people
with white feathery wings sprouting from their backs. Why are we
supporting Israeli expansionism? Why do you support Israeli
expansionism. If the reason's religious, just say so and tell us how
you envision it. If it's not, explain it historically.
coaste...@yahoo.com
wrote:
> "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:cfa4400b-1a26-4410...@m33g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 23, 8:18 pm, "Ike E 11/23/9" <xhermaneicklebe...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >> "John Manning" <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote in message
>
> >>news:bqudnZfdwrOiXZfW...@giganews.com...
>
> >>> Bitterscroll wrote:
> >>>> On Nov 23, 12:33 am, "Ike E 11/16/09" <xhermaneicklebe...@gmail.com>
>
> >> [snip]
>
> >>>> I agree with Ike.
> >>>> I think that either you have been duped by Islamic propaganda and have
> >>>> never read the Koran for yourself; or you are an Islamic sympathizer.
>
> >>> Have you read the Old Testament? Here's a sample of the atrocities and
> >>> war crimes you'll find within its pages:
>
> >> Now John tries to make his case by equivocation.
>
> >> But his REAL driving force is the politics of the profane, i.e.
> >> "universalism," NOT for religious reasons, but for THE SAKE OF POLITICAL
> >> EXPEDIENCY.
>
> >> See, John is one of those fools who thinks that PEACE is actually
> >> attainable, NOT knowing that the peace of God and the peace of the world
> >> ARE
> >> DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED, as James wrote...
> > What awful self-defeating nonsense.
>
> Nope. Spiritual reality.
When it comes to things spiritual, how do you ascertain what
represents reality and what doesn't?
> Satan offered Jesus all the kingdoms of the world "in an instant," meaning
> of all time, and Jesus forsook them for all mankind's sake.
That's a nice object lesson provided Mr. Satan exists, but as that's
highly unlikely. Where does it leave you? Our country could use your
support.
> Your materialism and globalism belie your position, "Satan."
Globalism is a fact, not a position. It doesn't look to be reversible
either. We still have to function realistically.
> of
> >> the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the
> >> world is the enemy of God.
What a strange God you have. If he created the world, why must you,
graven in his image, be it's enemy?
> >> Unbeknownst to John (or is it that he refuses to accept the truth?) one
> >> CANNOT BE on the world's side and on God's side at the same time, for
> >> they
> >> are MUTUALLY INCOMPATIBLE.
I think God ought to visit us, go on CNN and update his doctrine. That
Torah stuff we inherited from nomadic tribesman in the Middle East is
not clear at all. If it were there wouldn't be hundreds of Christian
sects.
> >> And thus, John and his ilk HAVE to find a way to shut down true
> >> Christianity--it fucks with their global agenda. So it starts with false
> >> accusations, then moves on to persecutions, and then discriminations, but
> >> in
> >> the end, they'll be doing it with "the sword."
.
Quaint language. I think the Christians ought to clean up their own
act. For example, they didn't adopt the Jewish Old Testament as part
of the Christian Canon until about 350 years after the death of
Christ. It was a voluntary act and a mistake. Christianity, a
universalist religion was only hindered by adopting a desert, nomadic,
non-Christian origin myth. There are lots of examples of the problems
it created including present day confusion as to what Christ's
humanist doctrine was all about.
coaste...@yahoo.com
Yeah, yeah, but in the meantime you're willing to ignore the need for
mankind to survive on this violent, overcrowded, hungry and hot
planet. The trouble is that God doesn't protect us. We have to protect
ourselves.
Ike E 12/10/2009
> On Dec 16, 2:08 pm, "Ike E 12/10/2009" <xhermaneicklebe...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> "John Manning" <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote in message
>> Pretty much every person of every other religion in the world would get
>> into
>> the Kingdom of Heaven before one single Muslim.
>
>> Ike
> You're nuts, Ike.
"You say."
> This Kingdom of Heaven stuff is pure imagination, pure invention.
"You say."
> It's self-defeating too.
Nope: It's eternally rewarding.
> "God" is not going to save us.
Well, not you if you keep going the way you're going, that's for sure.
> We're on our own.
"You say."
> We must think for ourselves.
That's true--you have to live by your words at the judgment.
> Before us were big toothy lizards and terrestrial crocodiles which
> terrorized the planet.
> They're still here in the form of ideological humans.
Nope.
They're still here in the form of the natural beast, i.e. YOU.
Ike
Ike E 12/10/2009
[snip]
> Yeah, yeah, but in the meantime you're willing to ignore the need for
> mankind to survive on this violent, overcrowded, hungry and hot planet.
You don't need to survive it. In fact, on your present course, you WON'T.
> The trouble is that God doesn't protect us. We have to protect ourselves.
You can't protect yourself.
In fact, that's your delusion: It's GOD who is your OPPONENT. THAT'S who is
fighting you (because you chose to fight Him).
And you will lose.
Ike
Ike E 12/10/2009
> On Dec 16, 2:29 pm, "Ike E 12/10/2009" <xhermaneicklebe...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
>> news:9b9a6d2a-b516-4d15...@w19g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>
>> [snip]
>
>>> Disregard the Israelis for a moment; what does this situation do for
>>> the West?
>
>> Typical secular asshole: "What's in it for us?" "Where does our profit
>> margin lie?" "What's in our best SELF-interest?"
> So, if we're not supporting Israeli expansion in our own interest,
> just why the hell are we doing it?
Notice how the point went totally over the secularist asshole's head.
IT'S YOUR QUESTION THAT IS AT ISSUE, moron.
>> Your very attitude demonstrates whose side your on (although I'm quite
>> sure
>> you're not aware of it)...
>
>> ...SATAN'S!
> Satan is a fantasy...
"You say," but who the hell are you?
> just as are both Heaven and Hell...
Better hope so, huh?
> and men and people with white feathery wings sprouting from their backs.
What manner of beings they are, and who they are, is above your paygrade.
> Why are we
> supporting Israeli expansionism?
Expansionism?
IT'S THEIRS IN THE FIRST PLACE, you moron.
> Why do you support Israeli
> expansionism.
BECAUSE IT'S GOD'S, moron.
> If the reason's religious, just say so and tell us how
> you envision it. If it's not, explain it historically.
I need do neither: It will be self-evident in due course of time (but not
before you people make an abominable mess of things).
Ike
Free Lunch
<xhermanei...@gmail.com> wrote in alt.atheism:
You cannot point to evidence for a single instance of God being involved
in anything.
Ike E 12/10/2009
[snip]
> Our country could use your support.
I'm not in the habit of supporting the foolishness of men.
>> Your materialism and globalism belie your position, "Satan."
> Globalism is a fact...
No, it's an agenda, and one that will fail you.
> not a position. It doesn't look to be reversible
> either.
Well, you're half right: You'll build, and God will take it away from you
and give it to the saints.
> We still have to function realistically.
You have no idea of what "reality" is.
[snip]
> What a strange God you have. If he created the world, why must you,
> graven in his image, be it's enemy?
I'm not.
You are.
You just don't seem to know it.
[snippeth]
> I think God ought to visit us...
Oh, you don't want that.
In fact, He will be in due course of time.
And you won't survive it.
[snip the rest of the blasphemies of the ignorant]
> Christianity, a universalist religion...
Thanks for revealing your agenda, Satan: Christianity was NEVER a
"universalistic religion," i.e. "Babylon." But that IS where you want to
take it, as prophesied, which is why you don't see any problems with "big
government" or "globalism."
[snippeth]
Ike
Mitchell Holman
>
>
>
>> Why do you support Israeli
>> expansionism.
>
> BECAUSE IT'S GOD'S, moron.
People killing other people to posses land
that each believe was given to them by God.
Sheesh..................
Ike E 12/10/2009
"Mitchell Holman" <noe...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9CE652114CBD0...@216.196.97.130...
It was only given to one--Israel.
Now, who is and who is not "Israel" is another matter altogether, but I
guarantee you it's NOT the Arabs, as Jesus, Paul, and John ALL denounced the
"Jews who say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie" who came from the
wrong mother, Hagar.
Ike
Free Lunch
<xhermanei...@gmail.com> wrote in alt.atheism:
You do understand that Abraham, Sarah and Hagar did not exist, do you
not?
Mitchell Holman
"And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we
smote him, and his sons, and all his people. And we took
all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men,
and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left
none to remain"
Deuteronomy 2:33-34
coaste...@yahoo.com
> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 15:12:29 -0600, "Ike E 12/10/2009"
>
>
>
>
>
> >"Mitchell Holman" <noem...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >news:Xns9CE652114CBD0...@216.196.97.130...
> >> "Ike E 12/10/2009" <xhermaneicklebe...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >>news:hgg294$bt2$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> >>>> Why do you support Israeli
> >>>> expansionism.
>
> >>> BECAUSE IT'S GOD'S, moron.
>
> >> People killing other people to posses land
> >> that each believe was given to them by God.
>
> >> Sheesh..................
>
> >It was only given to one--Israel.
>
> >Now, who is and who is not "Israel" is another matter altogether, but I
> >guarantee you it's NOT the Arabs, as Jesus, Paul, and John ALL denounced the
> >"Jews who say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie" who came from the
> >wrong mother, Hagar.
>
> You do understand that Abraham, Sarah and Hagar did not exist, do you
> not?
It's especially important to add the "Law Giver" Moses to that list.
Free Lunch
<coaste...@yahoo.com> wrote in alt.atheism:
Then we might as well remind folks that Adam, Eve, Cain, Abel, Isaac,
Jacob, Ishmael, and every other character in Genesis are not real
people, though the vast majority of people over the age of six
understand that these stories are not actually history.
Ike E 12/10/2009
...and you ain't seen nothin' yet.
Ike
Ike E 12/10/2009
> On Dec 19, 4:16 pm, Free Lunch <lu...@nofreelunch.us> wrote:
[snips]
>> You do understand that Abraham, Sarah and Hagar did not exist, do you
>> not?
> It's especially important to add the "Law Giver" Moses to that list.
..chirped the fools.
Ike
Free Lunch
<xhermanei...@gmail.com> wrote in alt.atheism:
>
You keep forgetting that you have no evidence to support your claims
about history in the Bible. Genesis is completely unsupported by
evidence and generally contradicted by it.
Mitchell Holman
$biu$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
So murder is OK as long as you think God wants you to?
You and Bin Laden have a lot in common..............
coaste...@yahoo.com
wrote:
> "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
You've just *decided* to declare yourself a believer of this nonsense.
The decision you actually made was to join the ranks of a religious
sect. You can't make such a decision and expect the result to be
actual belief. Belief comes unbidden and you have no control over it.
None whatever.
Pretending to believe or deciding to believe is a social phenomenon.
People derive certain benefits from doing it. They bond with others
who do the same thing. They give up leading their own lives. They
surrender to the security of their "believer" community.
But that's got nothing to do with actual belief. In reality one either
believes or one doesn't. It can't be controlled by an act of will, by
a decision. I was thirteen when I discovered that I did not believe.
No mere decision could overturn it. I still don't and no decision of
mine can change it.
Now, Ike, before you jump to conclusions, non-believers, reflective
people, are more likely to embrace one of the world's great moral
traditions and live decent personal lives than believers in folk lore.
That's because those moral traditions are the crystallized
experiential wisdom of human experience. They are traditions which
have survived the ages because they make sense in terms of human
relationships. THEY are the *valuable* inheritance. And there aren't
especially complex. They don't require belief in the supernatural.
They are pragmatic.
coaste...@yahoo.com
wrote:
> "iconocl...@yahoo.com" <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
You've made a decision, a political and social decision, to ally
yourself with religious people. You can not make a decision to
"believe". It is impossible.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> "Ike E 12/10/2009" <xhermaneicklebe...@gmail.com> wrote innews:hgjfju$ela$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Mitchell Holman" <noem...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >news:Xns9CE652114CBD0...@216.196.97.130...
> >> "Ike E 12/10/2009" <xhermaneicklebe...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >>news:hgg294$bt2$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> >>>> Why do you support Israeli
> >>>> expansionism.
>
> >>> BECAUSE IT'S GOD'S, moron.
>
> >> People killing other people to posses land
> >> that each believe was given to them by God.
>
> >> Sheesh..................
>
> > It was only given to one--Israel.
>
> > Now, who is and who is not "Israel" is another matter altogether, but
> > I guarantee you it's NOT the Arabs, as Jesus, Paul, and John ALL
> > denounced the "Jews who say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie"
> > who came from the wrong mother, Hagar.
>
> "And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we
> smote him, and his sons, and all his people. And we took
> all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men,
> and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left
> none to remain"
> Deuteronomy 2:33-34
Even if one accepts the existence of God, the decision to portray him
as selfish and wrathful and to equate him with carnage and vengeance
is obviously of human origin. There is nothing transcendent or noble
about it. It was written by the naked ape.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 20:57:36 -0800 (PST), "iconocl...@yahoo.com"
> <coaster132...@yahoo.com> wrote in alt.atheism:
For me it was thirteen. God help me.
coaste...@yahoo.com
wrote:
> "Mitchell Holman" <noem...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> news:Xns9CE6DB8C57CA1...@216.196.97.130...
>
>
>
> > "Ike E 12/10/2009" <xhermaneicklebe...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >news:hgjfju$ela$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> >> "Mitchell Holman" <noem...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >>news:Xns9CE652114CBD0...@216.196.97.130...
> >>> "Ike E 12/10/2009" <xhermaneicklebe...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >>>news:hgg294$bt2$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> >>>>> Why do you support Israeli
> >>>>> expansionism.
>
> >>>> BECAUSE IT'S GOD'S, moron.
>
> >>> People killing other people to posses land
> >>> that each believe was given to them by God.
>
> >>> Sheesh..................
>
> >> It was only given to one--Israel.
>
> >> Now, who is and who is not "Israel" is another matter altogether, but
> >> I guarantee you it's NOT the Arabs, as Jesus, Paul, and John ALL
> >> denounced the "Jews who say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie"
> >> who came from the wrong mother, Hagar.
>
> > "And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we
> > smote him, and his sons, and all his people. And we took
> > all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men,
> > and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left
> > none to remain"
> > Deuteronomy 2:33-34
>
> ...and you ain't seen nothin' yet.
>
> Ike
Your god makes lots of threats. He's not a very nice guy.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> "Ike E 12/10/2009" <xhermaneicklebe...@gmail.com> wrote in news:hgknsu
> $bi...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Mitchell Holman" <noem...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >news:Xns9CE6DB8C57CA1...@216.196.97.130...
> >> "Ike E 12/10/2009" <xhermaneicklebe...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >>news:hgjfju$ela$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> >>> "Mitchell Holman" <noem...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >>>news:Xns9CE652114CBD0...@216.196.97.130...
> >>>> "Ike E 12/10/2009" <xhermaneicklebe...@gmail.com> wrote in
> >>>>news:hgg294$bt2$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
>
> >>>>>> Why do you support Israeli
> >>>>>> expansionism.
>
> >>>>> BECAUSE IT'S GOD'S, moron.
>
> >>>> People killing other people to posses land
> >>>> that each believe was given to them by God.
>
> >>>> Sheesh..................
>
> >>> It was only given to one--Israel.
>
> >>> Now, who is and who is not "Israel" is another matter altogether, but
> >>> I guarantee you it's NOT the Arabs, as Jesus, Paul, and John ALL
> >>> denounced the "Jews who say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie"
> >>> who came from the wrong mother, Hagar.
>
> >> "And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we
> >> smote him, and his sons, and all his people. And we took
> >> all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men,
> >> and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left
> >> none to remain"
> >> Deuteronomy 2:33-34
>
> > ...and you ain't seen nothin' yet.
>
> So murder is OK as long as you think God wants you to?
>
> You and Bin Laden have a lot in common..............
It's a shameful tradition.
Free Lunch
<coaste...@yahoo.com> wrote in alt.atheism:
But you probably had people telling you that they were actual history
before you turned 13.
coaste...@yahoo.com
> On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 11:13:36 -0800 (PST), "iconocl...@yahoo.com"
The system was devoted to propagating it but it was probably that I
hadn't really thought much about it. My epiphany actually happened in
a Methodist Church on a Sunday morning.
Ike E 12/10/2009
"Mitchell Holman" <noemai...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9CE7579A9F0CB...@216.196.97.130...
I didn't say anything about me or any other Christian murdering anyone...
Now, "murder" is to take life WITHOUT CAUSE OR JUSTIFICATION.
What God does in righteous judgment is not "murder."
> You and Bin Laden have a lot in common..............
We don't have a thing in common, but you fools will always try to make it
look that way: That's your unequal "equivalency."
Ike
Ike E 12/10/2009
Nope. It's the only thing that makes sense.
[snippeth the rest of Satan's tirade]
Ike
Ike E 12/10/2009
Nope. In fact, I'm usually FIGHTING the very "religious people" that you
seem to think I'm allied with--they're almost as clueless as you sometimes.
> You can not make a decision to "believe". It is impossible.
Sure I can. I came. I read. I saw. I believed.
Ike
Ike E 12/10/2009
[snip]
> Even if one accepts the existence of God, the decision to portray him
> as selfish and wrathful and to equate him with carnage and vengeance
> is obviously of human origin.
Said the fool who would have us beleive in a "lop-sided" God, reiterating
the heresies of Marcion.
> There is nothing transcendent or noble
> about it. It was written by the naked ape.
Said the clueless one.
Nevertheless, Love requires choice, and choice requires options, and options
require consequences, or there really isn't any choice, and there can't be
love (for love requires the contrast of hate).
That's the downside of free will: In order to create love, God also had to
create hate, which means that God has to be perfectly balanced, i.e...
Jer 9:24 But let him that glorieth glory in this, that he understandeth and
knoweth me, that I am the LORD which exercise lovingkindness, judgment, and
righteousness, in the earth: for in these things I delight, saith the LORD.
Hence, one arrives at...
Isa 45:5-7
I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I
girded thee, though thou hast not known me, that they may know from the
rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the
LORD, and there is none else.
I form the light, AND create darkness: I make peace AND CREATE EVIL: I
the LORD do all these things.
Now, I know this is to much for your feeble little brain to handle, but get
used to it, for IT'S THE TRUTH, Jack.
Ike
Ike E 12/10/2009
[snip]
> Your god makes lots of threats. He's not a very nice guy.
LOL
You are totally clueless about God, "expert"...
De 11:26-28
Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse: A blessing, if
ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day;
and a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but
turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other
gods, which ye have not known.
It's not God's JOB to be a "nice guy:" That's your perverse thinking, which
is the result of living in a consequenceless society (that is eating itself
alive).
Ike