1,000 Year Reign Makes Scripture Contradict Itself!
@tampabay.rr.com Pastor Dave
The 1,000 Year Reign of Christ on Earth Cannot Happen!
Before beginning, let's understand what this doctrine says:
1) A new Temple is built. Of course, the Temple
has one main purpose, which is animal sacrifice
for the sins of the people.
2) The Mosaic Law is now active again.
3) Jesus comes to Earth, physically and literally as
a physical human being and rules for 1,000 years
and does it from the Temple in Jerusalem.
4) Jesus goes into this new, rebuilt Temple and acts
as the High Priest. This would involve sacrifices
and running things at the Temple and performing
the duties of the High Priest for the sacrifices also
and it means that he can enter the "Holy of Holies"
(God's room).
5) The Jews come there to do their thing with these
animal sacrifices, being under the Mosaic Law and
being able to be saved by the Mosaic Law.
And now let's look at some problems with this and then
we'll get to why it cannot happen:
First of all, the Jews reject Christ. How are they going
to be okay with Him being the one who does these things,
when they reject Him as a false teacher?! If anything,
they would stone Him for even attempting to do these
things and for trying to enter the "Holy of Holies"!
Secondly, how is Jesus going to be okay with these things
happening, when to perform animal sacrifices is to spit in
His face on the cross? We know it was sin for them to
make fun of Him while He was on the cross. How much
more evil is it for them to be rejecting the cross altogether,
by performing animal sacrifices?
Thirdly, how can Jews be saved by the Mosaic Law, when
Paul wrote to both Jews and Gentiles that the Mosaic Law
was incapable of saving anyone and Jesus said that no one
comes to the Father, except through Him?
The Dispensationalists don't have any good answers for
these problems that stare in the face of their doctrine.
They will, I'm sure, fire off at me with their attacks and
call me a liar and ignore the points made here, tell me
how I "just don't understand the Bible/have the Spirit",
thinking themselves my teacher and will talk about
everything except these points (except maybe to claim
they're right and I'm wrong), but they will not have
a good answer for the points that are listed above.
So now, let's look at why this cannot happen:
It cannot happen, because in order for the Dispensationalists
to be right, it would mean that the Bible contradicts itself!
Why do I say that? Simple. Because if their doctrine is true,
then He is and is not the High Priest at the same time!
Take a look at the Scriptures to see what I'm talking about. :)
And remember as you read these Scriptures, that I am quoting
from Hebrews here, because even the Dispy's cannot argue
that it's different for the Jews, because they know as well as
I do that Hebrews was written with Jewish Christians in mind.
First, here, it says that Jesus is already the High Priest;
"Then having a great High Priest who has passed
through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let
us hold fast the confession." - Hebrews 4:14
Secondly, here, it says in the following that He was
already called out to be a High Priest;
"...though being a Son, [Jesus] having been called
out by God as a High Priest according to the order
of Melchizedek." - Hebrews 5:8a,10
"But this is spiritual!", the Dispy's will shout.
Well of course it is! Those who worship God,
must worship Him in Spirit (John 4:23-24).
Below, it says that we now enter in through the veil,
which is what separated the Holy of Holies from us;
"...the hope set before us and entering into the inner
side of the veil, where Jesus entered as forerunner
for us, having become a High Priest forever, according
to the order of Melchizedek." - Hebrews 6:19b-20
And here, below (remembering that the writer is talking
to Jews), it says that they are saved by drawing near
to Christ and not by the Mosaic Law and it says that
Jesus was not to perform sacrifices, because He did
it once, when He offered up Himself as the one time,
eternal sacrifice for the sins of mankind!
"And from this He is able to save to the end completely
the ones drawing near to God through Him, forever
living to intercede on their behalf. For such a High Priest
was fitting for us: who has no need, as do the High Priests,
to offer sacrifices day by day, first for His own sins, then
for those of the people. For He did this once for all,
offering up Himself." - Hebrews 7:25,27
Now all of this is His position and He is in Heaven. And
the Dispensationalists will claim that this doesn't matter,
because they are talking about when He comes to Earth.
But how can His coming to Earth negate what it says
just above, in the quote of Hebrews 7:25,27?!
And as for why it simply could not be true that He would
come to Earth and offer sacrifices as the High Priest of
the Jews, the next Scripture shows that in order for the
Dispy's to be right, it would mean that Scripture ends up
contradicting itself, since it says that if He were on Earth,
then He simply could not be the High Priest!
"For if indeed He were on earth, He would not even
be a priest" - Hebrews 8:4
Why do the Dispensationalists say things like;
"Look vertically, not horizontally!"
And...
"It is not about what happens here, but what God says!"
And...
"It is about the spiritual, not the physical here on Earth!"
And then look to the physical for their rewards?!
--
Pastor Dave
"Who's more foolish? The fool, or the fool
who follows him?" - Obi Wan Kenobe
DanielMartin
wrote:
You have an interesting take on this vexing topic. Keep up the good
work, Sir!
May the Lord richly bless you!
Bob
These are the good old days
Peter B.
> The 1,000 Year Reign of Christ on Earth Cannot Happen!
>
> Before beginning, let's understand what this doctrine says:
>
> 1) A new Temple is built. Of course, the Temple
> has one main purpose, which is animal sacrifice
> for the sins of the people.
>
> 2) The Mosaic Law is now active again.
>
> 3) Jesus comes to Earth, physically and literally as
> a physical human being and rules for 1,000 years
> and does it from the Temple in Jerusalem.
>
> 4) Jesus goes into this new, rebuilt Temple and acts
> as the High Priest. This would involve sacrifices
> and running things at the Temple and performing
> the duties of the High Priest for the sacrifices also
> and it means that he can enter the "Holy of Holies"
> (God's room).
Best get out your Bible and study. I'e recommend a KJV or NKJV for now so
you'll have all the verses in it. You are already off the track on #4. get
a scripture to show where you are at then we can continue
@tampabay.rr.com Pastor Dave
> Pastor Dave wrote:
>
>> The 1,000 Year Reign of Christ on Earth Cannot Happen!
>>
>> Before beginning, let's understand what this doctrine says:
>>
>> 1) A new Temple is built. Of course, the Temple
>> has one main purpose, which is animal sacrifice
>> for the sins of the people.
>>
>> 2) The Mosaic Law is now active again.
>>
>> 3) Jesus comes to Earth, physically and literally as
>> a physical human being and rules for 1,000 years
>> and does it from the Temple in Jerusalem.
>>
>> 4) Jesus goes into this new, rebuilt Temple and acts
>> as the High Priest. This would involve sacrifices
>> and running things at the Temple and performing
>> the duties of the High Priest for the sacrifices also
>> and it means that he can enter the "Holy of Holies"
>> (God's room).
>
> Best get out your Bible and study.
I'm not interested in your tactic of snipping everything
I say that demonstrates the problems with your doctrine
and then insulting me and pretending that means that
you know your Bible and I don't.
> You are off track on #4.
You say that now, because you know that I destroyed
your doctrine with #4 and proved that it is ridiculous!
And that is why you snipped everything below the text
above. Because it proved that and used #4 to do it!
Fact: You do believe that #4 is true. That is your doctrine!
Lie to yourself about it! Don't bother trying to lie to me!
I know better! You believe in this rebuilt Temple here
on Earth with Jesus acting as High Priest! You do!
Fact: The Bible says that we have a High Priest in Jesus:
"Then having a great High Priest who has passed
through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let
us hold fast the confession." - Hebrews 4:14
Fact: The Bible says that if He were on Earth, that He is
not even a priest at all, let alone the High Priest!
"...though being a Son, [Jesus] having been called
out by God as a High Priest according to the order
of Melchizedek." - Hebrews 5:8a,10
If the above meant a High Priest here on Earth,
then the Bible contradicts itself, since the following
verse shows that it can't be on Earth, regardless
if you believe it is or not!;
"For if indeed He were on earth, He would not
even be a priest" - Hebrews 8:4
It's okay Peter, don't worry. We all expected you to do this
little act you perform, trying to obfuscate and play your little
game of dodge ball! :)
--
Pastor Dave
God doesn't call the qualified; He qualifies the called.
bear
tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 31 Dec 2010 20:33:00 -0800, "Peter B." <p...@b.org> spake thusly:
>
>
>> Pastor Dave wrote:
>>
>>> The 1,000 Year Reign of Christ on Earth Cannot Happen!
>>>
>>> Before beginning, let's understand what this doctrine says:
>>>
>>> 1) A new Temple is built. Of course, the Temple
>>> has one main purpose, which is animal sacrifice
>>> for the sins of the people.
>>>
>>> 2) The Mosaic Law is now active again.
>>>
>>> 3) Jesus comes to Earth, physically and literally as
>>> a physical human being and rules for 1,000 years
>>> and does it from the Temple in Jerusalem.
>>>
>>> 4) Jesus goes into this new, rebuilt Temple and acts
>>> as the High Priest. This would involve sacrifices
>>> and running things at the Temple and performing
>>> the duties of the High Priest for the sacrifices also
>>> and it means that he can enter the "Holy of Holies"
>>> (God's room).
>>
>> Best get out your Bible and study.
>
>
>It's okay Peter, don't worry. We all expected you to do this
>little act you perform, trying to obfuscate and play your little
>game of dodge ball! :)
No, "all" of us did not expect Peter to do anything, but "we all" knew
exactly what you would do, the same as you always do trying to defend
your defenseless doctrine.
Bear
the salad
wrote:
[...]
> Fact: You do believe that #4 is true. That is your doctrine!
> Lie to yourself about it! Don't bother trying to lie to me!
> I know better! You believe in this rebuilt Temple here
> on Earth with Jesus acting as High Priest! You do!
Since when do you get to dictate to others what they believe?
Peter B.
I stopped there intentionally so as to hit your obstacles one at a time.
Then continue on to the next. Being as you are so repetitive in your
replies, typically.
In this initial reply of yours you have posted nothing having to do with
item 4. There is a High Priest for the temple you mentioned. Who is it?
Please skip all your rants having nothing to do with your posted subjects.
It makes you look really whiney
Ike E 1/1/11
news:46osh6dd69gf3d198...@4ax.com...
>
>
> The 1,000 Year Reign of Christ on Earth Cannot Happen!
LOL
> Before beginning, let's understand what this doctrine says:
>
> 1) A new Temple is built. Of course, the Temple
> has one main purpose, which is animal sacrifice
> for the sins of the people.
The "genius" can't count to three.
"Say ye not 'the Temple of the Lord,' 'the Temple of the Lord,' 'the Temple
of the Lord,' are these."
> 2) The Mosaic Law is now active again.
Duh. The Jews NEVER THOUGHT IT WAS GONE IN THE FIRST PLACE, "genius."
> 3) Jesus comes to Earth, physically and literally as
> a physical human being and rules for 1,000 years
> and does it from the Temple in Jerusalem.
Where does the Bible say this?
Answer: It doesn't--it says "the CAMP of the saints," i.e. Jesus and Co
return to the Tabernacle, which was what God wanted in the first place.
Jesus DESTROYS the third temple at His second coming.
> 4) Jesus goes into this new, rebuilt Temple and acts
> as the High Priest.
No such statement anywhere in prophecy.
> This would involve sacrifices
> and running things at the Temple and performing
> the duties of the High Priest for the sacrifices also
> and it means that he can enter the "Holy of Holies"
> (God's room).
Jesus IS "the Holy of holies," and the believers are His "holy city."
Learn how to parse the literal from the figurative, "genius."
> 5) The Jews come there to do their thing with these
> animal sacrifices, being under the Mosaic Law and
> being able to be saved by the Mosaic Law.
No, the Jews (et al) rebuild the Temple as a sign of the complete rejection
of Jesus Christ as Messiah, "genius." And then the unholy trinity will use
it to bring down the whole world.
You really need to go learn something about prophecy before insinuating that
you know anything about it.
On the up side...
Zec 2:12 And the LORD shall inherit Judah his portion in the holy land, and
shall choose Jerusalem again.
On the down side...
Re 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it
not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread
under foot forty and two months.
[chuckle and snip the rest of the idiot's dawdle]
Ike
--
********
Which of the following is the correct way to read Bible prophecy?
A. Immediacy
B. Historicism
C. Dispensationalism
D. Preterism (Full or Partial)
E. Idealism
F. Realized/Sapiential Eschatology
G. All of the above
H. None of the above
Based on an examination of how (not just what) Jesus and the prophets
prophesied, "The Triune Hypothesis" is a guide to reading the Bible
prophetically in all three dimensions of interpretation-the horizontal axis
in time (what was, is, and/or is to come), the perpendicular axis in
application (literal, figurative, and/or spiritual), and the vertical axis
in context (thesis, generality, and/or antithesis).
Topics of discussion include the resurrections, the triune "Last Days," the
Pentecosts, the one-baptism-in-three-parts, the triple application of the
Elijah prophecies, the Temples in Jerusalem, the Abominations of Desolation,
the Triune Israel, the devolution of prophecy, and much more.
Kindle Version:
Print Version:
Facebook: (discussions enabled)
http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/pages/The-Triune-Hypothesis/102657386473773
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http://thetriunist.weebly.com/index.html
Ike E 1/1/11
news:c3guh6deicqf0l0is...@4ax.com...
Just like you.
Still waiting for those citations where GOD said the End of the Age would be
seven years by themselves, and not the seventy (fine print not withstanding)
that He declared in seven prophecies, utilized by John in Revelation.
Peter B.
> You really need to go learn something about prophecy before insinuating that
> you know anything about it.
>
> On the up side...
>
> Zec 2:12 And the LORD shall inherit Judah his portion in the holy land, and
> shall choose Jerusalem again.
>
> On the down side...
>
> Re 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it
> not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread
> under foot forty and two months.
>
> [chuckle and snip the rest of the idiot's dawdle]
>
> Ike
Ike, you might want to reconsider your ideas as well. Re 11:2 has to do
with the 7 year period. 2-42 month segments.
Read Ezekiel to see what the Lord has in store for the Tribes of Israel. It
lays out the land, banded from top to bottom. It is much larger than Israel
has ever been and what it should have been from the beginning. The New
Temple is pure Huge, dwarfs the old temple, Solomons temple completely.
The New and probably last Covenant of Peace also appears to be Jeremiah's
Covenant. I would be interested in the thoughts others regarding these two
being the same. It will last approx 1000 years.
Woe to the Jews, especially those of the tribe of Levites. The begining of
the millenium will be harsh, I wept with Ezekial regarding it. Take heed oh
Israel, harken unto the Lord lest these things befall thee and thy family.
Zev
$.dlg@4ever.his...
> On Sat, 1 Jan 2011 12:57:29 -0600, Ike E 1/1/11 wrote:
> The New and probably last Covenant of Peace also appears to be Jeremiah's
> Covenant. I would be interested in the thoughts others regarding these two
> being the same. It will last approx 1000 years.
The new isn't much different from the old.
> Woe to the Jews, especially those of the tribe of Levites. The begining of
> the millenium will be harsh, I wept with Ezekial regarding it. Take heed
> oh
> Israel, harken unto the Lord lest these things befall thee and thy family.
That's good advice, but nothing new.
Leviticus 18:5
So you shall keep My statutes and My judgments,
by which a man may live if he does them;
I am the Lord.
end quote
The idea is repeated over and over again, throughout the OT.
Linda Lee
So are you saying it was not "on Earth", but the thousand year reign
with the Messiah was in Heaven immediately after his resurrection and
ascension?
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was
given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for
the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not
worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark
upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned
with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand
years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Ike E 1/1/11
>
>
>> You really need to go learn something about prophecy before insinuating
>> that
>> you know anything about it.
>>
>> On the up side...
>>
>> Zec 2:12 And the LORD shall inherit Judah his portion in the holy land,
>> and
>> shall choose Jerusalem again.
>>
>> On the down side...
>>
>> Re 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure
>> it
>> not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they
>> tread
>> under foot forty and two months.
>>
>> [chuckle and snip the rest of the idiot's dawdle]
>>
>> Ike
Sorry, but I screwed up the headers somehow--this was directed at Pester
Dave.
> Ike, you might want to reconsider your ideas as well. Re 11:2 has to do
> with the 7 year period. 2-42 month segments.
First, I know precisely which section of Revelation goes where, as John's
chronological scroll in Revelation is based on Jesus' three-part outline in
the Olivet Discourse (which itself was based on Daniel's three-part form).
Seven Seals = Beginning of Sorrows (62 years).
Seven Trumpets = the rise (1 year) and rule (3 1/2 years, or 42 months, or a
"time, times, and half a time) of the unholy trinity.
Seven Vials = the rebuke of God and the beginning of the Day of the Lord
(a.k.a. the Millennium).
Second, there are not two 42-month segments. In the first iteration, Daniel
divided the last seven years into 1290 days and 1335 days. In the first
iteration, that was from the first abomination of desolation by Antiochus IV
Epiphanes to the cleansing of the Temple (commemorated at Hanukah) and the
cleansing of the Temple to the Jews' victory of the Seleucids, regaining
their independence.
Now Jesus said "except those days be shortened, no flesh would be left
alive. What days was He talking about? The days in both sections of the last
seven years. John declares the first half to be 1260 days (instead of 1290),
and Jesus left the second half undefined--He can come any time after the
third Abomination of Desolation is destroyed.
> Read Ezekiel to see what the Lord has in store for the Tribes of Israel.
Ezekiel is Triune just like every other prophecy in the Bible.
First, it pertained to the history of Israel (primarily literally with
figurative elements).
Second, it pertained to the intermediate history of the Church and Jesus'
First Advent (primarily figurative with literal elements).
Third, it will pertain to the End of the Age.
Then you have the issue of what is and is not "Israel."
Israel "was" literally in the twelve tribes of the Old Testament.
Israel "is" spiritually in the Gentile believers.
Israel "will be" again starting with the Remnant to come which will "keep
the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ," etc, etc.
In other words, the "Israel" yet to come isn't the Israel that "was" nor the
Israel that "is," but is comprised of both.
> It
> lays out the land, banded from top to bottom. It is much larger than
> Israel
> has ever been and what it should have been from the beginning. The New
> Temple is pure Huge, dwarfs the old temple, Solomons temple completely.
You missed another point: The Temple "was," and then was destroyed in 587
BC. The Temple "is" and then was destroyed in 70 AD. The Temple "will be"
again, and Jesus will destroy that one when He comes, too.
> The New and probably last Covenant of Peace also appears to be Jeremiah's
> Covenant. I would be interested in the thoughts others regarding these two
> being the same. It will last approx 1000 years.
It's not a "new" covenant per se. It's the first two "reconciled," which is
why Jesus called the thing to come "the restoration." And it will start with
a select Remnant known only to God that will "sing the song of Moses the
Servant of God and the song of the Lamb," etc, etc.
> Woe to the Jews, especially those of the tribe of Levites. The beginning
> of
> the millenium will be harsh, I wept with Ezekial regarding it. Take heed
> oh
> Israel, harken unto the Lord lest these things befall thee and thy family.
The "Israel" in the End of the Age will not be the Israel that "was" nor the
Israel that "is." It will be an entirely new "Israel" altogether, though it
will come from the "father" Israel that has passed already, and the "mother"
Israel that is passing even now.
@tampabay.rr.com Pastor Dave
>> It's okay Peter, don't worry. We all expected you
>> to do this little act you perform, trying to obfuscate
>> and play your little game of dodge ball! :)
>
> I stopped there intentionally so as to hit your obstacles
> one at a time.
And that's why you snipped everything that I posted
about that specific "obstacle" before you responded?!
No, sorry Peter! I'm not buying it! Nobody is! (:
Now, back to the issue at hand...
You believe that Jesus comes to Earth, physically and literally
as a physical human being and rules for 1,000 years and
does it from the Temple in Jerusalem, acting as High Priest.
Fact: The Bible says that we have a High Priest in Jesus:
"Then having a great High Priest who has passed
through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let
us hold fast the confession." - Hebrews 4:14
"...though being a Son, [Jesus] having been called
out by God as a High Priest according to the order
of Melchizedek." - Hebrews 5:8a,10
Fact: The Bible says that if He were on Earth, that He is
not even a priest at all, let alone the High Priest,
thereby proving that your doctrine cannot be true!
"For if indeed He were on earth, He would not even
be a priest" - Hebrews 8:4a
Now what, Peter? How now, brown cow? :)
This show a real problem with your doctrine! Now you need
to either show how it's not a problem, or have the integrity
to admit that it is. At least be *that* honest!
And please, this time, no obfuscation. Just answer *directly*!
--
Pastor Dave
The Last Days were in the first century:
Matthew 3:7,10,12
7) But when He saw many of the Pharisees and
Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto
THEM, O GENERATION of vipers, who hath warned
YOU to flee from the wrath to come?
10) And NOW also the axe is laid unto the root
of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth
not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into
the fire.
12) Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly
purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner;
but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Peter B.
> On Sat, 1 Jan 2011 10:12:35 -0800, "Peter B." <p...@b.org> spake thusly:
>
>>> It's okay Peter, don't worry. We all expected you
>>> to do this little act you perform, trying to obfuscate
>>> and play your little game of dodge ball! :)
>>
>> I stopped there intentionally so as to hit your obstacles
>> one at a time.
>
> And that's why you snipped everything that I posted
> about that specific "obstacle" before you responded?!
>
> No, sorry Peter! I'm not buying it! Nobody is! (:
I snipped it here to make a point. You are calling me a liar without cause.
Therefore any discussion you may be having is with yourself. Not me. I
mentioned this problem previously, you show no respect to others, yet you
call yourself a pastor. I know my heart, and I know my intentions and when
I see you blatently generalizing so as to set up your strawman arguments I
see you are not speaking to me but a figment of your imagination.
You persist and persist and are so blind that you do not see, or you do see
and go at it anyhow.
Henceforth unless I see a major apology for your actions you will be known
as the Pastor from Hell.
@tampabay.rr.com Pastor Dave
<lindag...@juno.com> spake thusly:
> Pastor Dave wrote:
>
>> The 1,000 Year Reign of Christ on Earth Cannot Happen!
>
> So are you saying it was not "on Earth", but the thousand
> year reign with the Messiah was in Heaven immediately
> after his resurrection and ascension?
Actually, I haven't said anything yet. :)
Let me say however, the basics of what I do believe
about this and then if you wish, we can get into
more specifics and more detail about it, okay? :)
I want you to know my dear, that JUST FOR YOU LINDA,
I actually chose not use the word "Futurists" in response,
but instead, I used the word "Dispensationalists" (except
in one or two places, where it was proper to use "Futurist").
And although I did shorten it down to "Dispy's" at times,
this was not done to make fun, but only to save on typing.
That word is a pain in the "buttocks" to type many times! :)
So anyway, JUST FOR YOU, DEAR! :)
But before stating the basics of what I believe, let me
please just make clear in very short form, why it is that
the Dispy belief about this "1,000 year physically literal,
on Earth in a rebuilt Temple reign of Christ" pits the
Bible against itself:
**********************************************************************************************
Fact: The Bible says that we have a High Priest in Jesus:
"Then having a great High Priest who has passed
through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let
us hold fast the confession." - Hebrews 4:14
"...though being a Son, [Jesus] having been called
out by God as a High Priest according to the order
of Melchizedek." - Hebrews 5:8a,10
Fact: The Bible says that if He were on Earth, that He is
not even a priest at all, let alone the High Priest,
thereby proving that your doctrine cannot be true!
"For if indeed He were on earth, He would not even
be a priest" - Hebrews 8:4a
**********************************************************************************************
I think that alone proves my case against the belief in this
supposed, "physically literal, on Earth reign of Christ"! :)
That being said, here we are again, looking into Hebrews
to have the Bible explained to us. <lol!> :)
Anyway, to get to the basics of what it is I believe before
beginning to get into more detail...
First, let me begin by saying that I currently lean toward
what is called "bimillennialism", since I see two of the
"thousand year" periods mentioned in Scripture.
By the way, a great book that deals with this is called;
"The Consummation of the Ages", by Kurt M. Simmons
This is an *intense* book! And I would not recommend
getting it, unless you are serious about learning what is
an entirely different view that what you are used to from
Futurism! It will require a serious Bible student who is
willing to place their studies of the Scriptures above their
trips to the mall and TV. :)
But you may wish to look at his in-depth book on Daniel
first (Adumbrations), which actually came out after the
one above. But since John borrows heavily from Daniel
in Revelation, it just might be wiser to read this one first.
I don't know, your choice. :) That's if you decide to look
at his books at all. :) I have found the one listed above
to be, as I said, an intense book that examines Revelation,
verse by verse and every single verse in Revelation! :)
And if you are at least somewhat serious about trying to
at least get a general to somewhat detailed picture of
the Preterist view, if for no other reason than to be able
to be informed about it and to be exposed to something
that will make you pause and think twice about what it
is that you hear about the subject of eschatology, he is
also one of the writers for a magazine called, "Fulfilled!",
that you can subscribe to free of charge. They do not
charge a thing at all; nor will they keep hounding you
for contributions (although of course a note about this
will be found in each issue, since they do give it away
for free and certainly the workman is worthy of his meat);
nor will they be prone to emailing you repeatedly with
advertisements. They don't even email you to tell you
that your subscription's about to run out. :)
Anyway, you can subscribe to this wonderfully explanatory
and "easy to medium reading" difficulty level magazine at;
http://www.fulfilledcg.com/Site/Magazine/Sign-up.htm
I believe it comes out every quarter. :)
As for the basics of what it is that I believe, I have listed
some items below, but we must first acknowledge the
absolute fact that Revelation is not a chronological book!
In other words, it skips back and forth through time and
not only this, but there are multiple chapters that will
deal with the same exact thing/event. A good example
of this is found when we see multiple chapters speaking
of the same "beast", amen? :)
This has caused a real problem for Dispyists! And that is
because they tend to view Revelation as a chronological
writing and because of this, can't see their nose in front
of their faces when it comes to many eschatological issues!
This subject is a good example of this, because they place
the events listed here as taking place on Earth, because
at the end of Revelation 19, it mentions Jesus riding a
horse down to Earth, which they view as physically literal
and so, they tend to place Revelation 20 right after ch 19
in time, but that is simply not the case and even if it was,
it wouldn't matter, because it is symbolic, not physical!
And don't let them fool you! They do know this, deep down!
I say that, because when they are shown that in order for it
to be physically literal, it would mean that Jesus rides into a
physical battle, with a physical sword sticking out of His mouth,
which means that He would have to kill His enemies with this
sword, by swinging His head back and forth and this picture
that this belief system draws of Him, is simply ridiculous! <lol>
Now of course, when I show them this and explain to them
that the sword is symbolic and symbolizes the word of God,
they snip that and post that it symbolizes the word of God,
as if they knew this all along and are teaching me about it
and didn't change their belief on the fly. Yea, right, okay. :)
As I have repeatedly tried to explain to them, the Scriptures
are about "Covenant Israel", not "National Israel" and this,
to me, is clear all the way through the Scriptures! Jesus
does not seek to crush Earthly kingdoms by riding into battle!
Rather, He crushes them with the word of God and He Himself,
also being the "Word"; the "Logos"! It constantly speaks all
through the Scriptures of the "Stone". It is found in Daniel
(before the last of the four kingdoms (Rome) was to fall,
this "stone" crushes these kingdoms) and Isaiah and also
in the writings of both Paul and Peter! It is ALL THROUGH
the Scriptures!!! :)
But if the sword is symbolic, then why isn't Jesus riding on
a horse down from the sky symbolic? They have no answer
for this, except to attack me personally. :)
So to list the basics of what it is that I believe about this;
1) I do not believe that a literal 1,000 years is discussed.
The Bible often uses the term "thousand", simply to
note "completeness" of someone(s) or something(s)
and it is a fact that "thousand" is indeed one of those
"numbers" in the Bible that symbolizes something,
like "seven" is the number of perfection and "ten" is
also a number of completeness, etc. and it is simply
"a space of time". When this term is used, it could
be a year, or a thousand years, or it could even be
more than that! It is, simply stated, whatever amount
of time it takes to complete whatever it is that is being
discussed. And when it comes to people, it is whatever
number of people involved in completing the "whatever".
2) I lean toward "bimillennialism" right now.
3) You asked me if I think it takes place in Heaven.
The answer to that is; "Yes and No". I believe
that the thousand year reign encompasses both.
In other words, things are happening on Earth
during this time, but when it speaks of where
the location is, yes, the verse that deals with it
does speak of Heaven, but ties to events that
took place on Earth. You wisely quoted Rev 20:4
which shows this, so let us take a look at it now;
Here is the verse quoted again and I would like to note
that when I was an instructor at a school (a tech school),
I used to teach my students to look for what I would call;
"key words" and instructed them that these would be
the "keys" that they would use, that would unlock the
mysteries for them and help give them understanding.
That these words should be the focus of trying to
understand what something is saying and that to ignore
these "key words", would lead to a seriously detrimental
view of the matter at hand! And sometimes there is
indeed, more than one key word there in front of us. :)
I tell you this about my teaching method Linda, because
I would like to use that method here, now, on this matter.
I am not saying that you are my student. I am only saying
that I have found this to be true and that this is how it is
that I will approach my explanation below. And it you find
it to be useful, then maybe you should use this method in
the future as well and look for those "key words" when
studying Scripture. :)
"And I saw thrones and they sat on them. And judgment
was given to them and the souls of the ones having been
beheaded because of the witness of Jesus and because
of the Word of God and who had not worshiped the beast,
nor its image and had not received the mark on their fore
-head and on their hand. And they lived and reigned with
Christ a thousand years." - Revelation 20:4 [LITV]
The first thing to note, is that it says that "*THEY* lived
and reigned with Him for a thousand years". Isn't at
least one of the key words in this verse, the word "they"?
After all, since these people play a key role in this passage,
shouldn't we be asking who "they" are, to see if it has
anything to do with determining where this passage of
Scripture takes place? Yes! Of course we should! :)
So who were they???
Well, we know that THEY were beheaded!
Do you know of any physically living beheaded people,
walking around on Earth, Linda? :)
So since they were beheaded for Christ and since it is
true that beheaded people don't walk around on Earth,
wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that they are not
on planet Earth? :) At least not any longer and not at
that time that the Scripture is noting? Yes, of course.
The second thing to note is that it says that judgment
was given to them. But judgment isn't the key word
here. And while the Dispy will immediately want to go
to something physical, it says that this judgment was
given to "the SOULS of them...".
And there is our next key word! The word "souls".
People who do subscribe to the Dispy belief will claim
that it is still talking about humans here on Earth, but
if it is just about humans, why make a note of them
being "souls"? Especially when they've been beheaded!
Linda, How can anyone, given these two facts of this
passage, believe that it's talking about being on Earth?!
Hello??? Anybody home??? :)
And how can anyone try to play word games with the
word "souls", when the word "souls" is directly tied to
the word "beheaded"?! Hello?!?
I simply do NOT understand how ANYONE could actually
sit there, with a straight face, actually typing that with their
fingers and their keyboards and on top of that, think that
they can actually now get huffy about it and try to act as
if they have proved something and now have the right to
get cocky with me and act as if it is somehow the case that
*I* am the one who is "just not getting it", or as if I am
the one who "just doesn't understand the Bible".
That is simply RIDICULOUS!!!
But I guess that those desperate to defend their doctrines,
will give answers that reflect that desperation. (:
And now, here is something that is really important to note!:
Remember that the Dispy belief is that CHRIST comes down
to Earth and that this passage is talking about how "CHRIST
reigns for a thousand years". But is that really what it says
there, Linda? Read it carefully and I think you'll see that it
is very clear about saying that it is NOT talking about how long
CHRIST reigns and that to say that Christ reigns for a certain
amount of time, is the same thing as saying that He doesn't
reign forever, when the Bible says that He does (Is 9/Lk 1).
Of course, this is where the Dispy will simply add to the Bible
(while denying that they're doing it) and claim that it is okay,
because this is noting a reign on Earth and so, they claim
that it doesn't conflict with the other passage that says that
He reigns forever (Luke 1:33). Where does THE BIBLE say
that though, Linda?
So they want me to ASSUME this to be the case, but they are
using ASSUMPTIONS that THEY ADD to it and can never show
as being found anywhere on the pages of the Bible itself!
The truth is, that Futurists in general (I said "in general"!) never
have a problem pitting the Bible against itself and then claiming
that the result of their attempt is somehow not a contradiction
and it is really, really sad to see doctrine so boldly and without
shame placed above the Scriptures! (:
Linda, I think that if you examine this passage, that you will find
that it is VERY CLEAR about the fact that it is NOT saying that
Christ Himself reigns for this time period!
Let's look at the passage again and see this for ourselves...
"And I saw thrones and they sat on them. And judgment
was given to them and the SOULS of the ones having been
BEHEADED because of the witness of Jesus and because
of the Word of God and who had not worshiped the beast,
nor its image and had not received the mark on their fore
-head and on their hand. And THEY lived and reigned
WITH Christ a thousand years." - Revelation 20:4 [LITV]
So now we get to our third and final "key word". :)
And what is that key word? It is "WITH".
Why do I say that? Simple! :) Let's read a portion
of the passage now, together...
"And THEY lived and reigned WITH Christ a thousand years."
Note Linda, that it doesn't say, "Christ reigned for 1,000 years.".
Rather, it talks about how long those beheaded souls
reigned WITH Christ! It both says that "THEY" reigned,
so it is about THEIR reign, not Christ's and it says that
they reigned WITH Christ, so again, the subject of this
verse is THEIR reign, not Christ's!
In other words, let's say that there is a king in a land
that is called "Ekobod", named, "King Joey".
Now King Joey has been ruling the land as their king
for 19 years already. And then he meets the woman
of his dreams! He meets the fair "Lady Lucinda".
He courts her and the two end up getting married,
exactly one year later, so that on the day of their
marriage, King Joey had been reigning for 20 years.
So the two go on through life and 20 years after
they got married, Queen Lucinda dies.
Now if I went to the center of town and posted a bulletin
that said the following;
"This is to notify you all, large and small, male and female,
that the fair and honorable Queen, Queen Lucinda, who
reigned with King Joey for the space of 20 of the years
of our Lord, has died this day!"
...that we both know is talking about how long she reigned
WITH King Joey and not about how long King Joey reigned,
then according to the logic that the Dispy doctrine applies
to the verse above (Rev 20:4), it would mean that King Joey
reigned over his kingdom for only 20 years!
After all, isn't that what they're saying about Rev 20:4?
That it says that CHRIST HIMSELF was to reign for this
"1,000 years"? Of course that's what they're saying!
Isn't that their doctrine? That "Christ will come to Earth
and reign for 1000 years!" ???
Of course that's their doctrine! And their entire claim to
this being the case, IS THIS ONE STATEMENT!!! But we
have seen that this doctrine of theirs is nothing more than
a serious error, since it does not say what they think it says!
Truth: The 20 years noted in the bulletin above is about her
(Queen Lucinda) and how long SHE reigned WITH King Joey
and is in no way a statement of how long King Joey reigned!
King Joey himself reigned for 40 years! The 20 years that
he was married to Queen Lucinda and the 20 years that
he reigned before having married her, totaling 40 years.
Compare the two and see for yourself just how badly it is
that the Dispensationalist doctrine massacres the Scriptures
and remember, the Dispy's claim that the first one that we
see in Rev 20:4, is talking about Christ HIMSELF reigning
for 1,000 years, even though it says "THEY" and "WITH"!;
"And THEY lived and reigned WITH Christ a thousand years."
"Queen Lucinda, who reigned WITH King Joey... 20 years."
It's obviously not talking about how long Christ HIMSELF reigns.
Christ was already reigning and it says "His Kingdom has no end"
(Isa 9:6-7; Luke 1:33).
The fact is, that Rev 20:4 speaks about how long the beheaded
souls reign WITH Christ! It is about how long THEY reign and
not how long Christ reigns, amen?
Christ reigns forever, but these people reigned WITH Him,
for this "thousand year" period, whether symbolic, or literal.
So we have seen our three key words (there's a good number!):
1) BEHEADED.
2) SOULS/BEHEADED.
3) WITH.
And boy, they have seriously opened our eyes, have they not?! :)
Key words do not have to be the biggest, nor the most difficult
word in the passage, to be the key to understanding said passage
and to maybe completely change our minds about exactly what
a Scripture is saying, amen? :)
So we have seen Linda, that the Scripture does NOT say;
1) That Christ comes to Earth. That is an assumption
they make, based on placing the end of ch 19
immediately before it in time (chronologically).
Revelation skips around though and the end of
ch 19 is symbolic, or Jesus wouldn't have a sword
sticking out of His mouth. :)
2) That it is speaking about how long Christ reigns,
but rather, speaks about how long these people
mentioned in it reign with Christ.
3) That the people mentioned are alive, on Earth,
since they were beheaded and this is before
the "new Earth" that the Futurists believe means
a place for physically resurrected people to live.
Here is what I wish to leave you with though, Linda (and I say it
knowing how much you hate me talking about Futurists in general,
but it is an EXTREMELY IMPORTANT point to make and it is true!)...
Even though we know that the passage simply does not state
that Christ will come to Earth and reign for 1,000 years, just
watch the Dispy's personally attack me and say that I'm lying
and lamely try to defend this doctrine anyway!
You see Linda, it isn't about truth for them. It's about making
the Bible all about themselves and to them, if that isn't the case,
then the Bible is just a waste of paper and ink! They deny this
and yet, look what they try to defend! Anything that says what
they want to hear with regard to this and look at what they so
viciously attack! Anything that says that it doesn't have yet to
be fulfilled! Now why would they need it to be about our time
and keep saying in their churches, "Oh, yes! Jesus is coming
back soon!" ??? How is it that their doctrine is so true and is so
easily proved and yet, all they have for a response, is attacks?!
And how is it that I am so evil and such a heretic who seeks to
devour "true believers" and they are so Godly and so loving here
and yet, there they are, FOR YEARS, still chasing me around
and posting one attack on me after another, without me even
responding at all to many of them (they are kill filed)?
And if their responses in this thread don't convince you Linda,
that they don't care about the truth, but only about their own
doctrines, then I don't know what will, since I know you will
agree that what I showed you is easy to see and understand!
Anyway, I hope and pray that this edified you and that you do
come to se things a bit differently and if you have any more
questions, I would be happy to answer them with more detail,
but with shorter messages. :)
--
Pastor Dave
"Lying about our failures to gain the favor of our peers,
soils us in the sight of the God who would forgive."
- Unknown
Doug
wrote in article
<bffd262f-2236-4358...@p1g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>:
> So are you saying it was not "on Earth", but the thousand
> year reign with the Messiah was in Heaven immediately
> after his resurrection and ascension?
Revelation 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto
them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of
Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast,
neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or
in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
The ones who reigned with Christ were "beheaded."
To be "beheaded for the witness of Jesus" is a metaphor, referring to the
yielding of one's mind to Christ and the gospel. It alludes to those who
are "a living sacrifice."
Romans 12:1
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present
your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your
reasonable service.
In the law, when an animal was sacrificed, its head was separated.
[Leviticus 1:8; 4:11; 5:8]
The love of the truth leads to unity among the saints.
1 Corinthians 1:10
Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that
ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you;
but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same
judgment.
Philippians 2:4-8
Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of
others.
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with
God:
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a
servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became
obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
The phrase "a thousand years" is symbolic; it can signify a limited time
of indefinite duration. Compare:
Psalm 50:10
For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand
hills.
Psalm 90:4
For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past,
and as a watch in the night.
--
Doug
bear
"From" or "to"?
Bear
@tampabay.rr.com Pastor Dave
> Pastor Dave wrote:
>
>> Peter B. spake thusly:
>>
>> No, sorry Peter! I'm not buying it! Nobody is! (:
>
> I snipped it here to make a point.
You keep saying that and yet, there haven't been
any doctrinal points made at all.
If you really want to "make a point", then doesn't
it make sense that the best way to do that, is by
proving that your doctrine is sound an shutting
me up for good about it? It seems to me that
that would make one Hell of a point! :)
> You are calling me a liar without cause.
Then prove it, Peter! As of now, we still don't have
an answer from you about this!
> You are so blind that you do not see!
You keep making this claim, yet you keep snipping the text.
So if I am so blind, then explain it to me. Here it is again:
You believe that Jesus comes to Earth, physically and literally
as a physical human being and rules for 1,000 years and
does it from the Temple in Jerusalem, acting as High Priest.
Fact: The Bible says that we have a High Priest in Jesus:
"Then having a great High Priest who has passed
through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let
us hold fast the confession." - Hebrews 4:14
"...though being a Son, [Jesus] having been called
out by God as a High Priest according to the order
of Melchizedek." - Hebrews 5:8a,10
Fact: The Bible says that if He were on Earth, that He is
not even a priest at all, let alone the High Priest.
"For if indeed He were on earth, He would not even
be a priest" - Hebrews 8:4a
Now how do you reconcile this obvious problem for your doctrine?
You claim I am blind, so tell me. How? Educate me, Peter. How?
--
Pastor Dave
"A text without a context becomes a proof-text
for a pre-text" - Carson
Ike E 1/1/11
news:4650i6pgjnlcg8tuu...@4ax.com...
Fact: "Hebrews" is spurious. It was concocted from elements of I Clement and
Revelation with style-points taken from Paul's epistles by an
Essene-influenced Ebionite heretic, and wasn't in any church canon until the
4th Century.
The spurious book is responsible for more crimes against
humanity--especially the Jews--than any other book in history.
[snippeth]
Peter B.
From him to everyone in this group.
Thanks.
@tampabay.rr.com Pastor Dave
>>> Henceforth unless I see a major apology
>>> for your actions you will be known as the
>>> Pastor from Hell.
>>
>> "From" or "to"?
>
> From him to everyone in this group.
Another "demand tactic" designed to avoid the issue.
If you really want to "make a point", then doesn't it
make sense that the best way to do that, is by proving
that your doctrine is sound and shutting me up for
good about it? It seems to me that that would make
one Hell of a point! :)
> You are calling me a liar without cause.
Then prove it, Peter! As of now, we still don't have
an answer from you about this!
> You are so blind that you do not see!
You keep making this claim, yet you keep snipping the text.
So if I am so blind, then explain it to me. Here it is again:
You believe that Jesus comes to Earth, physically and literally
as a physical human being and rules for 1,000 years and
does it from the Temple in Jerusalem, acting as High Priest.
Fact: The Bible says that we have a High Priest in Jesus:
"Then having a great High Priest who has passed
through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let
us hold fast the confession." - Hebrews 4:14
"...though being a Son, [Jesus] having been called
out by God as a High Priest according to the order
of Melchizedek." - Hebrews 5:8a,10
Fact: The Bible says that if He were on Earth, that He is
not even a priest at all, let alone the High Priest.
"For if indeed He were on earth, He would not even
be a priest" - Hebrews 8:4a
Now how do you reconcile this obvious problem for your doctrine?
You claim I am blind, so tell me. How? Educate me, Peter. How?
--
Pastor Dave
"Biologists are not the only scientists who, having made
extravagant claims about their merchandise, deliver the
goods in bite-sized packages. Nor are they the only
manufacturers of knowledge who cannot be bothered to
pick up a return package when the product turns out
to be faulty. Sagan's own branch of science is in
the same business. Anxious to revive a failing public
interest in spending large amounts on space research,
NASA scientists, followed by the President of the United
States, made an immense fuss about the discovery
of some organic molecules on a Mars rock. There is
(was) life (of some rudimentary kind) on Mars (maybe)!
Can little green men in space machines be far behind?
If it turns out, as already suggested by some scientists,
that these molecules are earthly contaminants, or were
produced in non-living chemical systems, this fact surely
will not be announced at a White House press conference,
or even above the fold in The New York Times."
- Richard Lewontin
bear
tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 2 Jan 2011 11:30:54 -0800, "Peter B." <p...@b.org> spake thusly:
>
>
>>>> Henceforth unless I see a major apology
>>>> for your actions you will be known as the
>>>> Pastor from Hell.
>>>
>>> "From" or "to"?
>>
>> From him to everyone in this group.
>
>Another "demand tactic" designed to avoid the issue.
>
>If you really want to "make a point", then doesn't it
>make sense that the best way to do that, is by proving
>that your doctrine is sound and shutting me up for
>good about it? It seems to me that that would make
>one Hell of a point! :)
>
Is that not special, coming from the one that would love nothing
better than to "shut me up" by proving his bogus doctrine, however,
since he cannot do so in a debate where he must answer questions and
provide proof, he is reduced to using his "kill file". Yep, that Dave
is a real Bible scholar, unless, he has to prove what he promotes.
>
>> You are calling me a liar without cause.
>
>Then prove it, Peter! As of now, we still don't have
>an answer from you about this!
>
He demands that others prove something, but he does not have to. Oh,
I forgot, he is a "pastor", therefore it is our duty to take his word
for everything.
>
>> You are so blind that you do not see!
>
>You keep making this claim, yet you keep snipping the text.
>
A trait that he learned from you, no doubt.
Bear
Rod
And I see you NOT answering his challenge! Why not ? I'd be
interested in how you work it out.
Peter B.
Actually I would as well. Problem is the discussion is chock full of
innuendoes and other lames that detract from any reasonable discourse.
That, and the sad fact that anything I would say he would tie into some
kind of group think and respond appropriately it would matter little to him
that I am not of that group. He feels strongly that however he labels me
that I am.
@tampabay.rr.com Pastor Dave
>> And I see you NOT answering his challenge!
>
> Actually I would as well.
You believe that Jesus comes to Earth, physically and literally
as a physical human being and rules for 1,000 years and
does it from the Temple in Jerusalem, acting as High Priest.
Fact: The Bible says that we have a High Priest in Jesus:
"Then having a great High Priest who has passed
through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let
us hold fast the confession." - Hebrews 4:14
"...though being a Son, [Jesus] having been called
out by God as a High Priest according to the order
of Melchizedek." - Hebrews 5:8a,10
Fact: The Bible says that if He were on Earth, that He is
not even a priest at all, let alone the High Priest.
"For if indeed He were on earth, He would not even
be a priest" - Hebrews 8:4a
So how do you reconcile this, Peter?
--
Pastor Dave
"There can be no happiness if the things we believe in are
different from the things we do." - Freya Madeline Stark
Peter B.
I am still going through all of this. Where do you get your 70 weeks from.
I am aware of the 70 weeks of years.
What is the time frame of the 1/2 hour?
The seventh seal comes after or at the same time of the seventh trumet?
What are you saying about the seven vials? The time frame. I am aware of
the purging that God is going to do with the Jews and in particular the
Levites, a terrible time of Gods wrath.
I'd like to get through this before addressing the rest.
All I know at this point is that it is the same Israel as the Covenant with
Abraham, the same descendents, the same 12 tribes all carefully lined our
in the redefined borders of Israel. I also suspect it will make the
Beautiful Temple of Solomon will pale by comparison.
Ike E 1/1/11
Oh, are you?
First, Gabriel said "70 weeks," not "70 weeks of years."
Second, "weeks" is a multilayered concept in the Old Testament, and is not
always seven years.
1) A "week" = seven days.
2) A "week" = seven x seven + one weeks of days to make a year (Sabbath
rules and luni-solar synchronization not withstanding).
3) A "week" = seven years to make a sabbatical cycle. [see Lev 25]
4) A "week" = seven x seven + 1 years to make a Jubilee cycle. [see Lev 25]
5) A "week" can be a 1,000 year "day" in a 7,000-year "week."
And so on, and so forth.
Third, there isn't a single prophecy in the Bible that says the End of the
Age will be seven years only; there are seven OT prophecies that say seventy
YEARS, which John utilized in Revelation.
So the first mistake of all the would-be prognosticators is that the end of
the age is only seven years.
The second mistake is taking a three-part story and turning it into a
one-part story: John's chronological three-part scroll is based on Jesus'
three-part outline, which is based on Daniel's three-part form.
> What is the time frame of the 1/2 hour?
No irreverent to the immediate discussion.
> The seventh seal comes after or at the same time of the seventh trumet?
No.
The seven seals are Jesus' Beginning of Sorrows (62 years).
The seven trumpets are the rise (1 year) and rule (3 1/2 years) of the
unholy trinity over Jerusalem.
The seven vials are the rebuke of God (up to 3 1/2 years) and the beginning
of the "day" (1,000 years) of the Lord.
John was following Jesus' Olivet Discourse (from some early version of the
canonical Gospel of Matthew) point-for-point.
Frauds have tried to change the story.
> What are you saying about the seven vials? The time frame. I am aware of
> the purging that God is going to do with the Jews and in particular the
> Levites, a terrible time of Gods wrath.
What is with all of this irrelevant bullshit?
1) The believers are accused, abused, misused, and executed until no one is
left except the Remnant. (The seven seals)
2) The unholy trinity polishes off whoever is left, except the
Christian-Israelite Remnant (which they can't touch).
3) In the last hour, God gathers the Remnant (and JUST the Remnant) and
pours out His wrath against the world for persecuting His saints. (the seven
vials)
> I'd like to get through this before addressing the rest.
I'd like you to get the basics before worrying about erroneous
irrelevancies--the "Israel" to come is NOT the "Israel" that was (the
children of the Old Testament), or the "Israel" that is (Christianity). It's
a whole new "Israel."
No, it's not.
God is NOT going backward; He's going forward.
Israel that "was" is over.
Israel as it "is" is about to be over.
That leaves the Israel that "is to come," starting with those 144,000
Israelite-Chrsitians John keeps talking about.
The third Israel will be "of" the Old Testament people, but it will be "of"
the New Testament, too, beginning a new phase in God's plan--the
reconciliation.
> I also suspect it will make the
> Beautiful Temple of Solomon will pale by comparison.
It'll be a Temple of Abomination just like the first two.
But that's how turned-around Satan has the churches--there are fools who
think that the children of the Pharisees (who are NOT "Jews" but "those who
say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie") rebuilding the temple is a
"good" thing.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
Peter B.
Yes, also 70 years by some and now your defintion whatever it is.
> First, Gabriel said "70 weeks," not "70 weeks of years."
>
In Daniel 9:24 It says 70 7's, so since you have not defined it, it could
well be 70 x 1000 years per your chart below, or 70 x 1 day.
> Second, "weeks" is a multilayered concept in the Old Testament, and is not
> always seven years.
>
> 1) A "week" = seven days.
> 2) A "week" = seven x seven + one weeks of days to make a year (Sabbath
> rules and luni-solar synchronization not withstanding).
> 3) A "week" = seven years to make a sabbatical cycle. [see Lev 25]
> 4) A "week" = seven x seven + 1 years to make a Jubilee cycle. [see Lev 25]
> 5) A "week" can be a 1,000 year "day" in a 7,000-year "week."
>
> And so on, and so forth.
>
So which is it?
> Third, there isn't a single prophecy in the Bible that says the End of the
> Age will be seven years only; there are seven OT prophecies that say seventy
> YEARS, which John utilized in Revelation.
>
Who said there was?
> So the first mistake of all the would-be prognosticators is that the end of
> the age is only seven years.
>
It is a mistake on your part to assume anyone said that.
> The second mistake is taking a three-part story and turning it into a
> one-part story: John's chronological three-part scroll is based on Jesus'
> three-part outline, which is based on Daniel's three-part form.
>
Problem is, we are having difficulties even addressint the first part of
this portion of the thread. You gave a bunch of possibilities, not what you
said you knew.
>> What is the time frame of the 1/2 hour?
>
> No irreverent to the immediate discussion.
>
Maybe not at this time, but it is relevant to the seventh seal and the
seventh trumpent.
>> The seventh seal comes after or at the same time of the seventh trumet?
>
> No.
>
> The seven seals are Jesus' Beginning of Sorrows (62 years).
> The seven trumpets are the rise (1 year) and rule (3 1/2 years) of the
> unholy trinity over Jerusalem.
> The seven vials are the rebuke of God (up to 3 1/2 years) and the beginning
> of the "day" (1,000 years) of the Lord.
>
So are the seven trumpets between the 6th and 7th seal, after the sixth had
been finished but before the 7 th seal or after the 7th seal but before it
is finished?
> John was following Jesus' Olivet Discourse (from some early version of the
> canonical Gospel of Matthew) point-for-point.
>
> Frauds have tried to change the story.
>
>> What are you saying about the seven vials? The time frame. I am aware of
>> the purging that God is going to do with the Jews and in particular the
>> Levites, a terrible time of Gods wrath.
>
> What is with all of this irrelevant bullshit?
>
You might like to rephrase that.
After the tribulation is completed begins the millennial reign of Christ.
Ike E 1/1/11
I don't have to define it; God already did.
Seven Old Testament prophecies say 70 years, not "weeks," including two in
Jeremiah, two in Zechariah, one in Isaiah, Psalm 90, and Daniel's original
reference to Jeremiah at the beginning of chapter 9.
John utilizes these 70 year (not "weeks") prophecies in Revelation.
The term "weeks" was introduced simply to make the prophecy convertible
across multiple iterations.
>> Second, "weeks" is a multilayered concept in the Old Testament, and is
>> not
>> always seven years.
>>
>> 1) A "week" = seven days.
>> 2) A "week" = seven x seven + one weeks of days to make a year (Sabbath
>> rules and luni-solar synchronization not withstanding).
>> 3) A "week" = seven years to make a sabbatical cycle. [see Lev 25]
>> 4) A "week" = seven x seven + 1 years to make a Jubilee cycle. [see Lev
>> 25]
>> 5) A "week" can be a 1,000 year "day" in a 7,000-year "week."
>>
>> And so on, and so forth.
>>
> So which is it?
The one God declared in seven prophecies--weeks as years, i.e. 70 years.
>> Third, there isn't a single prophecy in the Bible that says the End of
>> the
>> Age will be seven years only; there are seven OT prophecies that say
>> seventy
>> YEARS, which John utilized in Revelation.
>>
> Who said there was?
???
Pretty much everyone from the 2nd Century to the present--Historicists,
Dispensationalists, Preterists, and even Idealists.
>> So the first mistake of all the would-be prognosticators is that the end
>> of
>> the age is only seven years.
>>
>
> It is a mistake on your part to assume anyone said that.
???
Are you daft?
Pretty much every single school of prophetic interpretation (except
Reconstructionists and the like) have gone with the "missing week" nonsense.
>> The second mistake is taking a three-part story and turning it into a
>> one-part story: John's chronological three-part scroll is based on Jesus'
>> three-part outline, which is based on Daniel's three-part form.
>>
> Problem is, we are having difficulties even addressing the first part of
> this portion of the thread. You gave a bunch of possibilities, not what
> you
> said you knew.
I haven't given any "possibilities:" I'm going by what God specifically says
in scripture.
>>> What is the time frame of the 1/2 hour?
>>
>> No irreverent to the immediate discussion.
>>
>
> Maybe not at this time, but it is relevant to the seventh seal and the
> seventh trumpent.
Not really, except for the fact that, in reference to the first
iteration--the period from the time that Antiochus Ephiphanes defiled the
sanctuary to the Day of Nicanor--was divided into 1290 days in the first
half of the last "week" of the prophecy, and 1335 in the second half.
Then Jesus said "except those days be shortened, no flesh would be left
alive."
Then John said 1,260 days in the first half, and the second half is
undefined.
So what were the days "shortened" from?
Answer: The first iteration.
>>> The seventh seal comes after or at the same time of the seventh trumet?
>>
>> No.
>>
>> The seven seals are Jesus' Beginning of Sorrows (62 years).
>> The seven trumpets are the rise (1 year) and rule (3 1/2 years) of the
>> unholy trinity over Jerusalem.
>> The seven vials are the rebuke of God (up to 3 1/2 years) and the
>> beginning
>> of the "day" (1,000 years) of the Lord.
>>
>
> So are the seven trumpets between the 6th and 7th seal, after the sixth
> had
> been finished but before the 7 th seal or after the 7th seal but before it
> is finished?
???
It's straight down the line in chronological order.
62 years of the Beginning of Sorrows = the seven seals.
A 1 year rise and 3 1/2 year rule of the unholy trinity = the seven
trumpets.
Then the rebuke of God, which was originally 3 1/2 years, but is now
undefined--Jesus could come the day after the two witness are raised up to
1,334 days, and the period would still be "shortened" = the seven vials.
(God's fine print not withstanding.)
STOP trying to make things so hard--it's simply one right after another,
over the course of seventy years.
>> John was following Jesus' Olivet Discourse (from some early version of
>> the
>> canonical Gospel of Matthew) point-for-point.
>>
>> Frauds have tried to change the story.
>>
>>> What are you saying about the seven vials? The time frame. I am aware of
>>> the purging that God is going to do with the Jews and in particular the
>>> Levites, a terrible time of Gods wrath.
>>
>> What is with all of this irrelevant bullshit?
>>
>
> You might like to rephrase that.
>
> After the tribulation is completed begins the millennial reign of Christ.
Which has nothing to do with "Israel" as it was per se, nor "Israel" as it
is per se--the whole thing is about the THIRD "Israel" to come that will
"keep the commandments of God AND have the testimony of Jesus Christ," etc,
etc.
Ike
--
pyotr filipivich
alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
>
>> The 1,000 Year Reign of Christ on Earth Cannot Happen!
>>
>>
>> 1) A new Temple is built. Of course, the Temple
>> has one main purpose, which is animal sacrifice
>> for the sins of the people.
>>
>> 2) The Mosaic Law is now active again.
>>
>>
>> 4) Jesus goes into this new, rebuilt Temple and acts
>> as the High Priest. This would involve sacrifices
>> and running things at the Temple and performing
>> the duties of the High Priest for the sacrifices also
>> and it means that he can enter the "Holy of Holies"
>> (God's room).
>
>you'll have all the verses in it. You are already off the track on #4. get
>a scripture to show where you are at then we can continue
Still hasn't changed - His Kingdom shall have no end. That
doesn't mean that Christ will reign for a thousand years, and then
some kind of Final Revolt of the Unsaved.
I know, I know, I'm a little late responding...
--
pyotr filipivich.
Just about the time you finally see light at the end of the tunnel,
you find out it's a Government Project to build more tunnel.
pyotr filipivich
alt.christnet.christianlife the following:
>earlier regarding sacrificing in the temple for the millenium, thanks for
>looking it up.
>
>By guess is that you have no message ID for this post of yours. :0
Your guess will have to do. Nothing else seems real to you
anyway.
Abrams1117
> The 1,000 Year Reign of Christ on Earth Cannot Happen!
>
>
> Before beginning, let's understand what this doctrine says:
>
> 1) A new Temple is built. Of course, the Temple
> has one main purpose, which is animal sacrifice
> for the sins of the people.
>
> 2) The Mosaic Law is now active again.
>
> 3) Jesus comes to Earth, physically and literally as
> a physical human being and rules for 1,000 years
> and does it from the Temple in Jerusalem.
>
> 4) Jesus goes into this new, rebuilt Temple and acts
> as the High Priest. This would involve sacrifices
> and running things at the Temple and performing
> the duties of the High Priest for the sacrifices also
> and it means that he can enter the "Holy of Holies"
> (God's room).
Read Ezekiel 40 to the end of the book. The Lord in these chapters is Jesus.
>
> 5) The Jews come there to do their thing with these
> animal sacrifices, being under the Mosaic Law and
> being able to be saved by the Mosaic Law.
>
>
> And now let's look at some problems with this and then
> through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let
> us hold fast the confession." - Hebrews 4:14
>
> already called out to be a High Priest;
>
> out by God as a High Priest according to the order
> of Melchizedek." - Hebrews 5:8a,10
>
> Well of course it is! Those who worship God,
> must worship Him in Spirit (John 4:23-24).
>
> Below, it says that we now enter in through the veil,
> which is what separated the Holy of Holies from us;
>
> "...the hope set before us and entering into the inner
> side of the veil, where Jesus entered as forerunner
>
> And here, below (remembering that the writer is talking
> to Jews), it says that they are saved by drawing near
> to Christ and not by the Mosaic Law and it says that
> Jesus was not to perform sacrifices, because He did
> it once, when He offered up Himself as the one time,
> eternal sacrifice for the sins of mankind!
>
> "And from this He is able to save to the end completely
> the ones drawing near to God through Him, forever
> living to intercede on their behalf. For such a High Priest
> was fitting for us: who has no need, as do the High Priests,
> to offer sacrifices day by day, first for His own sins, then
> for those of the people. For He did this once for all,
> offering up Himself." - Hebrews 7:25,27
>
> Now all of this is His position and He is in Heaven. And
> the Dispensationalists will claim that this doesn't matter,
> because they are talking about when He comes to Earth.
>
> But how can His coming to Earth negate what it says
> just above, in the quote of Hebrews 7:25,27?!
>
> And as for why it simply could not be true that He would
> come to Earth and offer sacrifices as the High Priest of
> the Jews, the next Scripture shows that in order for the
> Dispy's to be right, it would mean that Scripture ends up
>
Ike
> Still hasn't changed - His Kingdom shall have no end.
> That
> doesn't mean that Christ will reign for a thousand years, and then
> some kind of Final Revolt of the Unsaved.
Ike
Ike
> On Friday, December 31, 2010 9:09:54 PM UTC-2, Pastor Dave wrote:
>> The 1,000 Year Reign of Christ on Earth Cannot Happen!
>>
>>
>> Before beginning, let's understand what this doctrine says:
>>
>> 1) A new Temple is built. Of course, the Temple
>> has one main purpose, which is animal sacrifice
>> for the sins of the people.
>>
>> 2) The Mosaic Law is now active again.
>>
>> 3) Jesus comes to Earth, physically and literally as
>> a physical human being and rules for 1,000 years
>> and does it from the Temple in Jerusalem.
>
> The coming temple that will be built by the Jews is the one that Jesus will destroy.
>> 4) Jesus goes into this new, rebuilt Temple and acts
>> as the High Priest. This would involve sacrifices
>> and running things at the Temple and performing
>> the duties of the High Priest for the sacrifices also
>> and it means that he can enter the "Holy of Holies"
>> (God's room).
>
> Jesus will build a new temple, true.
Jesus IS the temple, moron.
> Read Ezekiel 40 to the end of the book.
that matter.
> The Lord in these chapters is Jesus.
"These chapters" have THREE interpretations--Jesus has nothing to do
with the first two.
[snippeth]
Ike
Abrams1117
> On 3/24/2013 5:45 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>
> > On Friday, December 31, 2010 9:09:54 PM UTC-2, Pastor Dave wrote:
>
> >> The 1,000 Year Reign of Christ on Earth Cannot Happen!
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> Before beginning, let's understand what this doctrine says:
>
> >>
>
> >> 1) A new Temple is built. Of course, the Temple
>
> >> has one main purpose, which is animal sacrifice
>
> >> for the sins of the people.
>
> >>
>
> >> 2) The Mosaic Law is now active again.
>
> >>
>
> >> 3) Jesus comes to Earth, physically and literally as
>
> >> a physical human being and rules for 1,000 years
>
> >> and does it from the Temple in Jerusalem.
>
> >
>
> > The coming temple that will be built by the Jews is the one that Jesus will destroy.
>
>
>
> There goes the fraud, stealing from me again...
I know I have older ones, but, a quick search found this post from 2001...that`s OVER 12 YEARS AGO...
QUOTE
Same thing.
Christ comes for the elects sake-dead saints are raised - both living
and now resurrected saints born again as immortal spirit beings - angels
gather the elect - he comes from the east with the saints to Jerusalem
-he hovers over Jerusalem - speaks to attacking armies,they try to flee
- destroys them - blood flows for 200 miles/4 ft.deep-great earth quake-
3,000 die -valley created for water to flow to east and west to purify
oceans etc. from Jerusalem - Jerusalem raised up - his feet stand on the
mount of olives - he is King of all the earth - he gathers all flying
birds to feast on the vanquished armies - elect gather for the feast -
those left outside weep and gnash their teeth - the 1,000 year reign
begins with Christ as King of all the earth -David as king over the
entire house of Israel - each Apostle as King over one tribe- it appears
that Moses and Elijah will head the Priest part of the ruling ,as in
they shall reign as Kings and Priests.
The Kings, rulers of 5 cities etc., and the Priests teaching the
survivors G_D's 'way' .
UN-QUOTE
Did you miss it?
I`m sure you did, so here it is again....great earth quake-3,000 die..
Now, can you tell the class WHERE this earthquake occurs???
And what will happen during this great earthquake when ALL of Jerusalem is LIFTED UP?
If you EVER get anything right it will be pure luck because you`re not even reading the dust jacket of the right book yet.
Ike
> On Monday, March 25, 2013 6:58:17 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>> On 3/24/2013 5:45 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>>
>>> On Friday, December 31, 2010 9:09:54 PM UTC-2, Pastor Dave wrote:
>>
>>>> The 1,000 Year Reign of Christ on Earth Cannot Happen!
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> Before beginning, let's understand what this doctrine says:
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> 1) A new Temple is built. Of course, the Temple
>>
>>>> has one main purpose, which is animal sacrifice
>>
>>>> for the sins of the people.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> 2) The Mosaic Law is now active again.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> 3) Jesus comes to Earth, physically and literally as
>>
>>>> a physical human being and rules for 1,000 years
>>
>>>> and does it from the Temple in Jerusalem.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> The coming temple that will be built by the Jews is the one that Jesus will destroy.
>>
>>
>>
>> There goes the fraud, stealing from me again...
>
> LOL! A monkey wouldn`t steal a banana from you...it would be afraid of getting cooties!
>
> I know I have older ones, but, a quick search found this post from 2001...that`s OVER 12 YEARS AGO...
>
> QUOTE
> Same thing.
> Christ comes for the elects sake-dead saints are raised
raised when He completes the process of ascension He started some 2,000
years ago. And that happens at the seventh trump.
Christ's return doesn't happen until the last part of the seven vials.
> - both living
> and now resurrected saints born again as immortal spirit beings
"immortal spirit beings" are "angels," moron. (and those that fall
become the "demons.")
> - angels
> gather the elect
will be shrouded in death, and no one will see it.
> - he comes from the east with the saints to Jerusalem
behind in heaven, just as John wrote.
> -he hovers over Jerusalem
> - speaks to attacking armies,they try to flee
> - destroys them - blood flows for 200 miles/4 ft.deep-great earth quake-
> 3,000 die
Try nearly 200 million.
> -valley created for water to flow to east and west to purify
> oceans etc. from Jerusalem
Has nothing to do with "purifying" anything accept the Dead Sea, which
won't be "dead" anymore.
> - Jerusalem raised up - his feet stand on the
> mount of olives
that causes the Great Rift to collapse, creating a river through the
Valley of Megiddo, down the Jordan River Valley, all the way to the Red
Sea.
> - he is King of all the earth - he gathers all flying
> birds to feast on the vanquished armies
"fowls of the air" is a metaphor for the angels, moron.
> - elect gather for the feast -
The "fowls of the air" eating the flesh of the wicked IS "the feast," moron.
It's called "revenge."
> those left outside weep and gnash their teeth - the 1,000 year reign
> begins with Christ as King of all the earth -David as king over the
> entire house of Israel
David is above; Jesus is below.
> - each Apostle as King over one tribe-
along with the Patriarchs of the twelve tribes.
> it appears
> that Moses and Elijah will head the Priest part of the ruling ,
> as in
> they shall reign as Kings and Priests.
> The Kings, rulers of 5 cities etc., and the Priests teaching the
> survivors G_D's 'way' .
The ONLY persons who will be on earth will be Jesus and His entourage,
the 144,000.
EVERYONE ELSE WILL BE IN HEAVEN MINDING THE STORE.
> UN-QUOTE
>
> Did you miss it?
Nope. Didn't miss a one.
> I`m sure you did, so here it is again....great earth quake-3,000 die..
3,000 from.
Second, that has NOTHING to do with the Battle of Armageddon; the
rending of the Temple happens after the resurrection of the two
witnesses, which concludes (from another perspective) the seven trumpets.
The triumphant return is at the conclusion of the seven vials.
> Now, can you tell the class WHERE this earthquake occurs???
WHICH earthquake, moron?
There are THREE documented in Revelation, one in each section, each
getting worse than the previous.
> If you EVER get anything right...
Bub, you aren't even close to getting the story straight.
Abrams1117
> On 3/25/2013 7:12 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>
> > On Monday, March 25, 2013 6:58:17 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>
> >> On 3/24/2013 5:45 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>> On Friday, December 31, 2010 9:09:54 PM UTC-2, Pastor Dave wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>>> The 1,000 Year Reign of Christ on Earth Cannot Happen!
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>> Before beginning, let's understand what this doctrine says:
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>> 1) A new Temple is built. Of course, the Temple
>
> >>
>
> >>>> has one main purpose, which is animal sacrifice
>
> >>
>
> >>>> for the sins of the people.
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>> 2) The Mosaic Law is now active again.
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>> 3) Jesus comes to Earth, physically and literally as
>
> >>
>
> >>>> a physical human being and rules for 1,000 years
>
> >>
>
> >>>> and does it from the Temple in Jerusalem.
>
> >>
>
> >>>
>
> >>
>
> >>> The coming temple that will be built by the Jews is the one that Jesus will destroy.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> There goes the fraud, stealing from me again...
>
> >
>
> > LOL! A monkey wouldn`t steal a banana from you...it would be afraid of getting cooties!
>
> >
>
> > I know I have older ones, but, a quick search found this post from 2001...that`s OVER 12 YEARS AGO...
>
> >
>
> > QUOTE
>
> > Same thing.
>
> > Christ comes for the elects sake-dead saints are raised
>
>
>
> Christ doesn't "come" for the "elects sake,"
>and the dead saints are
>
> raised when He completes the process of ascension He started some 2,000
>
> years ago. And that happens at the seventh trump.
>
>
>
> Christ's return doesn't happen until the last part of the seven vials.
>
>
>
> > - both living
>
> > and now resurrected saints born again as immortal spirit beings
>
>
>
> LOL
>
>
>
> "immortal spirit beings" are "angels," moron. (and those that fall
>
> become the "demons.")
>
>
>
> > - angels
>
> > gather the elect
>
>
>
> Yes, the resurrected saints take the Remnant WITH them; but even that
>
> will be shrouded in death, and no one will see it.
>
>
>
> > - he comes from the east with the saints to Jerusalem
>
>
>
> No, He comes with THE 144,000; the REST of the resurrected dead stay
>
> behind in heaven, just as John wrote.
>
>
>
> > -he hovers over Jerusalem
>
> > - speaks to attacking armies,they try to flee
>
>
>
> Don't know where you got this nonsense from.
>
>
>
> > - destroys them - blood flows for 200 miles/4 ft.deep-great earth quake-
>
> > 3,000 die
>
>
>
> 3,000?
>
>
>
> Try nearly 200 million.
That`s the Battle of Armageddon.
>
>
>
> > -valley created for water to flow to east and west to purify
>
> > oceans etc. from Jerusalem
>
>
>
> Ah, no, the Jordan Valley connects the Med to the Red Sea.
>
>
>
> Has nothing to do with "purifying" anything accept the Dead Sea, which
>
> won't be "dead" anymore.
>
>
>
> > - Jerusalem raised up - his feet stand on the
>
> > mount of olives
>
>
>
> His feet touching the Mount of Olives CAUSES the massive techtonic shift
>
> that causes the Great Rift to collapse, creating a river through the
>
> Valley of Megiddo, down the Jordan River Valley, all the way to the Red
>
> Sea.
>
>
>
> > - he is King of all the earth - he gathers all flying
>
> > birds to feast on the vanquished armies
>
>
>
> LOL
>
>
>
> "fowls of the air" is a metaphor for the angels, moron.
>
>
>
> > - elect gather for the feast -
>
>
>
> LOL
>
>
>
> The "fowls of the air" eating the flesh of the wicked IS "the feast," moron.
>
>
>
> It's called "revenge."
>
>
>
> > those left outside weep and gnash their teeth - the 1,000 year reign
>
> > begins with Christ as King of all the earth -David as king over the
>
> > entire house of Israel
>
>
>
> LOL
>
>
>
> David is above; Jesus is below.
>
>
>
> > - each Apostle as King over one tribe-
>
>
>
> No, moron. The twelve apostles are half of the 24 elders IN HEAVEN,
>
> along with the Patriarchs of the twelve tribes.
>
>
>
> > it appears
>
> > that Moses and Elijah will head the Priest part of the ruling ,
>
> > as in
>
> > they shall reign as Kings and Priests.
>
>
>
> Moses and Elijah are out of the picture below after they ascend into heaven.
>
>
>
> > The Kings, rulers of 5 cities etc., and the Priests teaching the
>
> > survivors G_D's 'way' .
>
>
>
> No, moron.
>
>
>
> The ONLY persons who will be on earth will be Jesus and His entourage,
>
> the 144,000.
>
>
>
> EVERYONE ELSE WILL BE IN HEAVEN MINDING THE STORE.
>
>
>
> > UN-QUOTE
>
> >
>
> > Did you miss it?
>
>
>
> All of your ignorant mistakes?
>
>
>
> Nope. Didn't miss a one.
>
>
>
> > I`m sure you did, so here it is again....great earth quake-3,000 die..
>
>
>
> First, it's "7,000 names of men," moron; I have no idea where you got
>
> 3,000 from.
>
>
>
> Second, that has NOTHING to do with the Battle of Armageddon;
the
>
> rending of the Temple happens after the resurrection of the two
>
> witnesses, which concludes (from another perspective) the seven trumpets.
>
>
>
> The triumphant return is at the conclusion of the seven vials.
>
>
>
> > Now, can you tell the class WHERE this earthquake occurs???
>
>
>
> LOL
>
>
>
> WHICH earthquake, moron?
Ike
> On Wednesday, March 27, 2013 6:31:39 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>> On 3/25/2013 7:12 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>>
>>> On Monday, March 25, 2013 6:58:17 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>>
>>>> On 3/24/2013 5:45 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> On Friday, December 31, 2010 9:09:54 PM UTC-2, Pastor Dave wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> The 1,000 Year Reign of Christ on Earth Cannot Happen!
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> Before beginning, let's understand what this doctrine says:
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> 1) A new Temple is built. Of course, the Temple
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> has one main purpose, which is animal sacrifice
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> for the sins of the people.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> 2) The Mosaic Law is now active again.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> 3) Jesus comes to Earth, physically and literally as
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> a physical human being and rules for 1,000 years
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> and does it from the Temple in Jerusalem.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> The coming temple that will be built by the Jews is the one that Jesus will destroy.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> There goes the fraud, stealing from me again...
>>
>>>
>>
>>> LOL! A monkey wouldn`t steal a banana from you...it would be afraid of getting cooties!
>>
>>>
>>
>>> I know I have older ones, but, a quick search found this post from 2001...that`s OVER 12 YEARS AGO...
>>
>>>
>>
>>> QUOTE
>>
>>> Same thing.
>>
>>> Christ comes for the elects sake-dead saints are raised
>>
>>
>>
>> Christ doesn't "come" for the "elects sake,"
>
> Christ does everything for the elect.
>> and the dead saints are
>>
>> raised when He completes the process of ascension He started some 2,000
>>
>> years ago. And that happens at the seventh trump.
>
> Christ returns at the 7th trump and the dead saints are raised.
Christ FINISHES the ascension He began 2,000 years ago, with the
resurrected dead in tow.
Christ RETURNS at THE SEVENTH VIAL.
>> Christ's return doesn't happen until the last part of the seven vials.
>
> Christ returns at the 7th vial.
Seven seals = The Beginning of Sorrows.
Seven trumpets = the rise and rule of the unholy trinity.
Seven vials = the wrath of God leading to the Day of the Lord, starting
the Millennium.
SAME THING JESUS LAID OUT IN HIS OUTLINE.
SAME THING LAID OUT IN THE SEGMENTS OF DANIEL'S TIMING PROPHECY.
THREE PARTS, ONE AFTER ANOTHER.
>>> - both living
>>
>>> and now resurrected saints born again as immortal spirit beings
>>
>>
>>
>> LOL
>>
>>
>>
>> "immortal spirit beings" are "angels," moron. (and those that fall
>>
>> become the "demons.")
>
>
> Mortality must put on immortality. Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom.
>>> - angels
>>
>>> gather the elect
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, the resurrected saints take the Remnant WITH them; but even that
>>
>> will be shrouded in death, and no one will see it.
>
> The angels gathering the elect are not former people.
>>> - he comes from the east with the saints to Jerusalem
>>
>>
>>
>> No, He comes with THE 144,000; the REST of the resurrected dead stay
>>
>> behind in heaven, just as John wrote.
>
>
> This only exists in your deluded mind.
>>> -he hovers over Jerusalem
>>
>>> - speaks to attacking armies,they try to flee
>>
>>
>>
>> Don't know where you got this nonsense from.
>
>
> The Bible.
>>> - destroys them - blood flows for 200 miles/4 ft.deep-great earth quake-
>>
>>> 3,000 die
>>
>>
>>
>> 3,000?
>
> Typo = 7,000
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Try nearly 200 million.
>
>
> That`s the Battle of Armageddon.
And THAT'S at the end of the SEVEN VIALS; the rending of Jerusalem
happens at THE END OF THE SEVEN TRUMPETS.
You just can't get the story straight, can you, dumbass?
>>> -valley created for water to flow to east and west to purify
>>
>>> oceans etc. from Jerusalem
>>
>>
>>
>> Ah, no, the Jordan Valley connects the Med to the Red Sea.
>
> Read Ezekiel.
And Israel (on the African plate) will be divided from the Arabian plate.
The waterway will run through the Valley of Megiddo from the Med, then
turn south down the Jordan River Valley, emptying into the Red Sea.
>> Has nothing to do with "purifying" anything accept the Dead Sea, which
>>
>> won't be "dead" anymore.
>
> Ezekiel.
Ezekiel.
Meanwhile, I know what Ezekiel said, what it refers to in its THREE
contexts, and what the final results will be.
The moron here doesn't have a clue.
>>> - Jerusalem raised up - his feet stand on the
>>
>>> mount of olives
>>
>>
>>
>> His feet touching the Mount of Olives CAUSES the massive techtonic shift
>>
>> that causes the Great Rift to collapse, creating a river through the
>>
>> Valley of Megiddo, down the Jordan River Valley, all the way to the Red
>>
>> Sea.
>
> Nonsense.
And the waters rushing between the Med and the Red Sea will "drown
Pharaoh and all his hordes" all over again, which is why the Remnant
will be singing "the song of Moses the servant of God" (and the song of
the Lamb) ALL OVER AGAIN in the End of the Age.
And thus, what is past is prologue...
...and you don't have the foggiest notion how it works.
>>> - he is King of all the earth - he gathers all flying
>>
>>> birds to feast on the vanquished armies
>>
>>
>>
>> LOL
>>
>>
>>
>> "fowls of the air" is a metaphor for the angels, moron.
>
> The angels eat those attacking Jerusalem? LOL!
Repeat of Passover, and the death of Pharaoh's "firstborn."
And the only thing they'll see is the manifestation, NOT the ANGELS
DOING THE JOB ON THEM.
<chuckle>
>>> - elect gather for the feast -
>>
>>
>>
>> LOL
>>
>>
>>
>> The "fowls of the air" eating the flesh of the wicked IS "the feast," moron.
>>
>>
>>
>> It's called "revenge."
>
> Many will come from east and west and sit at table with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
THE "WEDDING FEAST OF THE LAMB" WILL BE REVENGE ON THOSE WHO DESTROYED
THE SAINTS, SERVED UP GOOD AND HOT.
>>> those left outside weep and gnash their teeth - the 1,000 year reign
>>
>>> begins with Christ as King of all the earth -David as king over the
>>
>>> entire house of Israel
>>
>>
>>
>> LOL
>>
>>
>>
>> David is above; Jesus is below.
>
> Nonsense.
In fact, David and the rest of the Patriarchs are ALREADY ruling from
above, and have been since before time began, even though their
resurrections haven't happened yet.
>>> - each Apostle as King over one tribe-
>>
>>
>>
>> No, moron. The twelve apostles are half of the 24 elders IN HEAVEN,
>>
>> along with the Patriarchs of the twelve tribes.
>
> I said what the Bible says.
And the 24 elders are the 12 apostles and the 12 Patriarchs of Israel
RULING TOGETHER.
>>> it appears
>>
>>> that Moses and Elijah will head the Priest part of the ruling ,
>>
>> > as in
>>
>> > they shall reign as Kings and Priests.
>>
>>
>>
>> Moses and Elijah are out of the picture below after they ascend into heaven.
>
> More nonsense.
Moses and Elijah become (and have always been) part of the hierarchy of
heaven. In fact, that's PRECISELY where Ezekiel SAW the "two olive
trees," etc, etc.
>>> The Kings, rulers of 5 cities etc., and the Priests teaching the
>>
>>> survivors G_D's 'way' .
>>
>>
>>
>> No, moron.
>
> Yes.
>> The ONLY persons who will be on earth will be Jesus and His entourage,
>>
>> the 144,000.
>>
>>
>>
>> EVERYONE ELSE WILL BE IN HEAVEN MINDING THE STORE.
>
> Only in your warped mind.
>>> UN-QUOTE
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Did you miss it?
>>
>>
>>
>> All of your ignorant mistakes?
>>
>>
>>
>> Nope. Didn't miss a one.
>>
>>
>>
>>> I`m sure you did, so here it is again....great earth quake-3,000 die..
>>
>>
>>
>> First, it's "7,000 names of men," moron; I have no idea where you got
>>
>> 3,000 from.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>> Second, that has NOTHING to do with the Battle of Armageddon;
>
> Who said it did?
Jerusalem, which is at the end of the seven trumpets, NOT the seven
vials, i.e. the Second Coming.
> the
>>
>> rending of the Temple happens after the resurrection of the two
>>
>> witnesses, which concludes (from another perspective) the seven trumpets.
>
>
> They are raised at the 7th trump.
>> The triumphant return is at the conclusion of the seven vials.
>
> Yes.
>>> Now, can you tell the class WHERE this earthquake occurs???
>>
>>
>>
>> LOL
>>
>>
>>
>> WHICH earthquake, moron?
>
>
> The one being discussed.
>> There are THREE documented in Revelation, one in each section, each
>>
>> getting worse than the previous.
Jesus, et al, describe the end of the age as "birth pangs." Birth pangs
are THE SAME each time they come around, THEY JUST GET MORE INTENSE.
Same with Revelation.
>>> If you EVER get anything right...
>>
>>
>>
>> Bub, you aren't even close to getting the story straight.
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>> 4) Jesus goes into this new, rebuilt Temple and acts
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> as the High Priest. This would involve sacrifices
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> and running things at the Temple and performing
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> the duties of the High Priest for the sacrifices also
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> and it means that he can enter the "Holy of Holies"
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> (God's room).
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> Jesus will build a new temple, true.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> False.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> Jesus IS the temple, moron.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> Read Ezekiel 40 to the end of the book.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> You have no idea how to read Ezekiel or any other book of the Bible for
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> that matter.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> The Lord in these chapters is Jesus.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> False.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> "These chapters" have THREE interpretations--Jesus has nothing to do
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> with the first two.
Ike
Abrams1117
Matthew 24
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Which days?
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
And how are they shortened?
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
And what does Jesus Christ do?
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
That`s right -he sends out ANGELS to gather the Saints.
Abrams1117
The Seven Trumpet-Vials
The first trumpet and the first vial are against the earth.
This punishment from G-D burns up trees and grass. It also causes
those with the mark of the beast to get grievous sores.
Revelation 8:7:
The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with
blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees
was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
Revelation 16:2:
And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there
fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of
the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
The second trumpet and the second vial are against the sea.
Revelation 8:8-9:
8:8: And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain
burning with fire was cast
into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
8:9: And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and
had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.
Revelation 16:3:
And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became
as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
The third trumpet and the third vial are against rivers and fountains
of water.
Revelation 8:10-11:
8:10: And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from
heaven, burning as it were a
lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the
fountains of waters;
8:11: And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part
of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters,
because they were made bitter.
Revelation 16:4:
And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains
of waters; and they became blood.
The fourth trumpet and the fourth vial are against the sun.
Revelation 8:12:
And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was
smitten, and the third part of the
moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them
was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the
night likewise.
Revelation 16:8-9:
16:8: And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power
was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
16:9: And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name
of G-D, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to
give him glory.
The fifth trumpet and the fifth vial cause darkness.
Revelation 16:10:
And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast;
and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues
for pain,
Revelation 9:1-2:
9:1: And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven
unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
9:2: And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of
the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were
darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
The sixth trumpet and the sixth vial are against the Euphrates River.
Revelation 9:13-14:
9:13: And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four
horns of the golden altar which is before G-D,
9:14: Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four
angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
Revelation 16:12:
And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river
Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the
kings of the east might be prepared.
The Mystery!
The Seven Thunders - the Seventh Trumpet - the Seventh Vial
Revelation 10:1-7:
10:1: And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed
with a cloud: and a
rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and
his feet as pillars of fire:
10:2: And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right
foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,
10:3: And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he
had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.
10:4: And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was
about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal
up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and
write them not.
10:5: And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth
lifted up his hand to heaven,
10:6: And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created
heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things
that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are
therein, that there should be time no longer:
10:7: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall
begin to sound, the mystery of G-D should be finished, as he hath
declared to his servants the prophets.
Revelation chapter 11:15-19:
11:15: And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in
heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of
our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
11:16: And the four and twenty elders, which sat before G-D on their
seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped G-D,
11:17: Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord G-D Almighty, which art,
and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great
power, and hast reigned.
11:18: And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time
of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give
reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them
that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which
destroy the earth.
11:19: And the temple of G-D was opened in heaven, and there was seen
in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and
voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
Revelation 16:17-21:
16:17: And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and
there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne,
saying, It is done.
16:18: And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there
was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth,
so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
16:19: And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities
of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before G-D,
to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
16:20: And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
16:21: And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone
about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed G-D because of the
plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.
Re-read Revelation 10:4.
Revelation 10:4:
And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to
write: and I heard a voice
from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven
thunders uttered, and write them not.
The angel told John to seal up those things the seven thunders uttered
and to write them not. The chronology of the Book of Revelation
reveals what the angel told John not to write.
The Seventh Trumpet-Vial
Revelation 10:7:
But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin
to sound, the mystery of G-D should be finished, as he hath declared
to his servants the prophets.
Revelation 16:17:
And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came
a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It
is done.
What did the seven thunders utter when the mystery of G-D should be
finished?
It Is Done.
The voices, thunders, lightning and the earthquake in verses 11:19 and
16:18 are the same events. This connector tells us the trumpets and
vials are descriptions of the same events.
Revelation 11:19:
And the temple of G-D was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his
temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and
voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
Revelation 16:18:
And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a
great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so
mighty an earthquake, and so great.
Compare the details of the voice of the seven thunders with the
seventh vial and the seventh trumpet.
Seventh Trumpet
Revelation 11:15:
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in
heaven,saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of
our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Revelation 11:19
And the temple of G-D was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his
temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and
voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
Seven Thunders
Revelation 10:3:
And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had
cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.
Revelation 10:4:
And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to
write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those
things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.
Revelation 10:7:
But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin
to sound, the mystery of G-D should be finished, as he hath declared
to his servants the prophets.
Seventh Vial
Revelation 16:17:
And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came
a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It
is done.
Revelation 16:18:
And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a
great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so
mighty an earthquake, and so great.
Revelation 8:5
In Revelation 8:5 there are also voices, thunderings, lightnings and
an earthquake.
Revelation 8:5:
And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar,
and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings,
and lightnings, and an earthquake.
Revelation 8:1-5:
8:1: And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in
heaven about the space of half an hour.
8:2: And I saw the seven angels which stood before G-D; and to them
were given seven trumpets. 8:3: And another angel came and stood at
the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much
incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon
the golden altar which was before the throne.
8:4: And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the
saints, ascended up before G-D out of the angel's hand.
8:5: And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the
altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and
thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
The connector in Revelation 8:5 teaches us the seventh seal occurs
when the seventh trumpet- vial and the seven thunders occur.
The Seven Trumpet-Vials
1) Against the Earth
2) Against the Sea
3) Against Rivers and Fountains of Water
4) Against the Sun
5) Cause Darkness
6) Against the Euphrates River
7) It is done - lightnings, earthquake, hail, voices
John Darby noticed that the first four trumpets and vials are against
the earth, sea, rivers, and sun. He wrote: The first four plagues have
the same objects as the judgments of the first four
trumpets-the whole circle of symbolic nature, but here directly as
regards men- earth, sea, rivers, and sun.
The First Trumpet-Vial
The seven trumpets and the seven vials are describing the same events.
Thus many people have made a mistake when they say that tracking chips
under the skin cause the grievous sores. Tracking chips cannot burn up
trees and grass.
Revelation 8:7:
The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with
blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees
was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
Revelation 16:2:
And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there
fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of
the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
* It is likely the mark of the Beast is simply a new currency in the
Middle East that will bear the name and image of the 11th King.
The Seven Seals
Revelation 6:
6:1: And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as
it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and
see.
6:2: And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a
bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and
to conquer.
6:3: And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast
say, Come and see.
6:4: And there went out another horse that was red: and power was
given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that
they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great
sword.
6:5: And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast
say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat
on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
6:6: And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A
measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a
penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
6:7: And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the
fourth beast say, Come and see.
6:8: And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on
him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto
them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with
hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
6:9: And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the
souls of them that were slain
for the word of G-D, and for the testimony which they held:
6:10: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy
and true, dost thou not
judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
6:11: And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was
said unto them, that they
should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also
and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be
fulfilled.
6:12: And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there
was a great earthquake; and
the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as
blood;
6:13: And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree
casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Revelation 8:1-5:
8:1: And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in
heaven about the space of half an hour.
8:2: And I saw the seven angels which stood before G-D; and to them
were given seven trumpets. 8:3: And another angel came and stood at
the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much
incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon
the golden altar which was before the throne.
8:4: And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the
saints, ascended up before G-D out of the angel's hand.
8:5: And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the
altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and
thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
1) The 1st seal represents religious deception.
2) The 2nd seal represents war.
3) The 3rd seal represents famine.
4) The 4th seal represents pestilence.
5) The 5th seal represents the killing of G-D's Saints.
6) The 6th seal represents the time immediately after the tribulation
when the sun will be black and the moon will become like blood.
7) The 7th seal represents the kingdoms of this world becoming the
kingdoms of our Lord.
Abrams1117
Talk about cult and private interpretation. Yours is king.
Abrams1117
I have given you proof many times that there can be no one in God`s Temple at that time because there IS a verse that says that. But, you only care about being an eternal angel and `maybe` God and other totally insane ideas that you alone believe.
Abrams1117
You think you may be God, you say that you alone know the truth...have you ever heard of mental disorders?
Exactly what do you think it would take to qualify as a mental disorder?
LOL...maybe everyone who disagrees with YOU?
Abrams1117
How silly.
Revelation 19
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
...and these?
Ezekiel 39
17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord God; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.
18 Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.
19 And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.
20 Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord God.
21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day and forward.
Abrams1117
You do not have any scriptures that say what you are saying.
>
>
>
> >>> it appears
>
> >>
>
> >>> that Moses and Elijah will head the Priest part of the ruling ,
>
> >>
>
> >> > as in
>
> >>
>
> >> > they shall reign as Kings and Priests.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> Moses and Elijah are out of the picture below after they ascend into heaven.
>
> >
>
> > More nonsense.
>
>
>
> ...says the ignorant sot.
If you would like to pretend to be ignorant now post the verse about Elijah going up into the air where birds fly.
Also, scripture says plainly that Moses died, the Devil wanted his body, Michael stopped him and God buried him. Now, say again that Moses never died he is in stasis - that is one of your better ones.
>
>
>
> Moses and Elijah become (and have always been) part of the hierarchy of
>
> heaven. In fact, that's PRECISELY where Ezekiel SAW the "two olive
>
> trees," etc, etc.
>
>
>
> >>> The Kings, rulers of 5 cities etc., and the Priests teaching the
>
> >>
>
> >>> survivors G_D's 'way' .
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> No, moron.
>
> >
>
> > Yes.
>
>
>
> Says the moron without a shred of biblical evidence.
Not a shred?
Luke 19
16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
Abrams1117
Or do you only use scripture like a giant crossword puzzle?
In Revelation chapter 6 the Sun is dark.
Jesus Christ SAID the tribulation ends BEFORE this.
Take off the dunce cap and try a thinking cap for a change.
Ike
seventh trump, and the triumphant return is at the end of the seven
vials, anywhere from a day to 1,334 days later.
> But, here is Christ coming for the elect`s sake...
>
> Matthew 24
> 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
> Which days?
The unholy trinity's days, i.e. the 3 1/2 years that comes AFTER the one
year transition, which comes AFTER the 62 years of the Beginning of Sorrows.
> And how are they shortened?
was 1,290 days, followed by the 1,335 days.
So, thanks to John, we know that the first half will be 1,260 days, but
the second half is now undefined.
> And what does Jesus Christ do?
>
> 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
The Remnant will be gathered (by hidden means, shrouded in death, as
they are "beheaded," just as John said) before God begins to pour out
His wrath.
Jesus comes at AS THE LAST MANIFESTATION of God's wrath.
> That`s right -he sends out ANGELS to gather the Saints.
THE 144,000.
You simply can't get anything straight in the feeble little mind of yours.
Ike
Ike
> On Thursday, March 28, 2013 1:21:58 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>> Christ RETURNS at THE SEVENTH VIAL.
>
>
> The 7th vial or bowl and the 7th trumpet are the exact same event...
REVELATION FOLLOWS JESUS' OUTLINE RIGHT DOWN THE LINE.
Seven seals = the Beginning of Sorrows.
ONE RIGHT AFTER THE OTHER.
One of the reasons for the similarities is THAT THEY'RE BIRTH PANGS,
EACH INCREASING IN INTENSITY.
Yeesh, you're an ignorant sot.
Ike
Ike
[snippeth]
> You are not an angel that sang at the foundation of the Earth nor are you `maybe` God as you said.
> Angels were never men.
...said Satan while spitting in Jesus' and the prophets' faces.
Ike
Ike
> On Thursday, March 28, 2013 1:21:58 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>>>> No, He comes with THE 144,000; the REST of the resurrected dead stay
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> behind in heaven, just as John wrote.
>
> That`s a lie.
Meanwhile, the Word says...
9 � And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the
which they held:
true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the
earth?
unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their
fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they
were, should be fulfilled.
the earth that is holding the souls of the martyrs in it.
THE DEAD IN CHRIST ARE IN HEAVEN, moron.
How stupid can he be?
Ike
Ike
> You think these fowls are angels...
>
> Revelation 19
> 21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
> Ezekiel 39
> 17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord God; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.
This speaks of the gathering of THE BELIEVERS, you moron.
When will these morons ever figure out how to parse the literal and the
spiritual through the figurative?
<chuckle>
Ike
Ike
> On Thursday, March 28, 2013 1:21:58 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>> And the 24 elders are the 12 apostles and the 12 Patriarchs of Israel
>>
>> RULING TOGETHER.
>
> Everyone has THOUGHT of that...but, people don't just throw ideas into boxes like some word puzzle and say this is it!
>
> You do not have any scriptures that say what you are saying.
Yes, I do, moron.
Lk 22:
29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on
thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
The corollary is that the 12 patriarchs sit and judge the Christians.
John even confirms this in the last two chapters of Revelation.
[snippeth]
>>>> Moses and Elijah are out of the picture below after they ascend into heaven.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> More nonsense.
>>
>>
>>
>> ...says the ignorant sot.
>
> There is not a single verse that says Moses or Elijah rose into Heaven.
IN HAPPENS IN THE END OF THE AGE.
> There are no scriptures that say either Moses or Elijah are either of the two olive trees.
Rev 11: [ed]
3 � And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall
prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing
before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth,
and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in
this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of
their prophecy: [Elijah's miracles] and have power over waters to turn
them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they
will. [Moses' miracles]
The quote comes from Zechariah...
Zec 4:
11 � Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees
upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive
branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of
themselves?
13 And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I
said, No, my lord.
14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the
Lord of the whole earth.
These are the same two who "stood by the Lord of the Earth" at His
transfiguration.
Mt 17:
1 � And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother,
and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun,
and his raiment was white as the light.
3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
[snippeth]
> Luke 19
> 16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
>
> 17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
>
> 18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
>
> 19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
Only an idiot takes an idiom idiomatically.
[snippeth]
Ike
Ike
Ike
Abrams1117
>
>
>
> > But, here is Christ coming for the elect`s sake...
>
> >
>
> > Matthew 24
>
> > 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
>
>
>
> Said in reference to THE REMNANT, moron.
>
>
>
> > Which days?
>
>
>
> The unholy trinity's days, i.e. the 3 1/2 years that comes AFTER the one
>
> year transition, which comes AFTER the 62 years of the Beginning of Sorrows.
>
>
>
> > And how are they shortened?
>
>
>
> There are less than there were in the FIRST iteration of Daniel, which
>
> was 1,290 days, followed by the 1,335 days.
>
>
>
> So, thanks to John, we know that the first half will be 1,260 days, but
>
> the second half is now undefined.
>
>
>
> > And what does Jesus Christ do?
>
> >
>
> > 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
>
>
>
> As always, you screw up the order of things.
>
>
>
> The Remnant will be gathered (by hidden means, shrouded in death, as
>
> they are "beheaded," just as John said) before God begins to pour out
>
> His wrath.
>
>
>
> Jesus comes at AS THE LAST MANIFESTATION of God's wrath.
>
>
>
> > That`s right -he sends out ANGELS to gather the Saints.
>
>
>
> It doesn't say "saints," you moron; it says "his elect," IN REFERENCE TO
>
> THE 144,000.
Abrams1117
Abrams1117
> On 3/28/2013 6:07 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>
>
>
> [snippeth]
>
>
>
> > You are not an angel that sang at the foundation of the Earth nor are you `maybe` God as you said.
>
>
>
> ...said Satan in a jealous rage.
Sorry, Ike, I am not jealous that you are completely nuts.
>
>
>
> > Angels were never men.
>
>
>
> ...said Satan while spitting in Jesus' and the prophets' faces.
YOU do have problems, don`t you?
>
>
>
> Ike
Abrams1117
> On 3/28/2013 6:11 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>
> > On Thursday, March 28, 2013 1:21:58 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>
>
>
> [snippeth]
>
>
>
> >>>> No, He comes with THE 144,000; the REST of the resurrected dead stay
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>> behind in heaven, just as John wrote.
>
> >
>
> > That`s a lie.
>
>
>
> ...declared Satan.
>
>
>
> Meanwhile, the Word says...
>
>
>
> souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony
>
> which they held:
>
> 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and
>
> true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the
>
> earth?
>
> 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said
>
> unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their
>
> fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they
>
> were, should be fulfilled.
>
>
>
> The idiot must think there is some massive literal, physical altar on
>
> the earth that is holding the souls of the martyrs in it.
>
>
>
> THE DEAD IN CHRIST ARE IN HEAVEN, moron.
>
>
>
> How stupid can he be?
>
>
>
> Ike
John 5:28
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Abrams1117
Abrams1117
Abrams1117
>
> > On Thursday, March 28, 2013 1:21:58 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>
>
>
> [snippeth]
>
>
>
> >> And the 24 elders are the 12 apostles and the 12 Patriarchs of Israel
>
> >>
>
> >> RULING TOGETHER.
>
> >
>
> > Everyone has THOUGHT of that...but, people don't just throw ideas into boxes like some word puzzle and say this is it!
>
> >
>
> > You do not have any scriptures that say what you are saying.
>
>
>
> [snippeth]
>
>
>
> Yes, I do, moron.
>
>
>
> Lk 22:
>
> 29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
>
> 30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on
>
> thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
>
>
>
> The corollary is that the 12 patriarchs sit and judge the Christians.
>
>
>
> John even confirms this in the last two chapters of Revelation.
>
>
>
> [snippeth]
>
>
>
> >>>> Moses and Elijah are out of the picture below after they ascend into heaven.
>
> >>
>
> >>>
>
> >>
>
> >>> More nonsense.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> ...says the ignorant sot.
>
> >
>
> > There is not a single verse that says Moses or Elijah rose into Heaven.
>
>
>
> WILL rise, not did rise, moron.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
-Revelation 11
And they ASCENDED up to heaven....
Will you apologize?
No need...your too evil to even think about it.
Now, there is NO scripture that says they are Moses and Elijah.
Abrams1117
Revelation 1:6
And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
>
>
>
> [snippeth]
>
>
>
> Ike
Abrams1117
Ike
> On Friday, March 29, 2013 5:30:03 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
> The resurrection at the 7th trump happens when he comes to rule the world.
Jesus comes at the seventh vial, moron, not the seventh trump.
>>> Matthew 24
>>
>>> 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
>>
>>
>>
>> Said in reference to THE REMNANT, moron.
>
> You can call a million people moron
And even that event will be shrouded in death, like the martyrdom of
Stephen.
>> The unholy trinity's days, i.e. the 3 1/2 years that comes AFTER the one
>>
>> year transition, which comes AFTER the 62 years of the Beginning of Sorrows.
>
>
> You did not read the scripture the days are the days of the tribulation.
tribulation of the saints, and the Great Tribulation of the world.
>>> And how are they shortened?
>>
>>
>>
>> There are less than there were in the FIRST iteration of Daniel, which
>>
>> was 1,290 days, followed by the 1,335 days.
>
> You are talking over the answers from scripture.
In Daniel, which applied to the period of the Maccabean Revolt, it was
1,290 says.
For the third and final iteration, John tells us its 1,260 days.
> They are shortened when Jesus comes and stops them.
>> So, thanks to John, we know that the first half will be 1,260 days, but
>>
>> the second half is now undefined.
>>> 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
>>
>>
>>
>> As always, you screw up the order of things.
>>
>>
>>
>> The Remnant will be gathered (by hidden means, shrouded in death, as
>>
>> they are "beheaded," just as John said) before God begins to pour out
>>
>> His wrath.
>
You don't pay attention to a thing scripture says, moron.
>> It doesn't say "saints," you moron; it says "his elect," IN REFERENCE TO
>>
>> THE 144,000.
>
> They are saints.
BEFORE THAT.
Ike
Ike
Revelation dictates otherwise.
Ike
Ike
> On Friday, March 29, 2013 5:35:33 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>> On 3/28/2013 6:07 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> [snippeth]
>>
>>
>>
>>> You are not an angel that sang at the foundation of the Earth nor are you `maybe` God as you said.
>>
>>
>>
>> ...said Satan in a jealous rage.
>
>
> LOL!
>
> Sorry, Ike, I am not jealous that you are completely nuts.
The moron just confessed that he's Satan.
>>> Angels were never men.
>>
>>
>>
>> ...said Satan while spitting in Jesus' and the prophets' faces.
>
> I did not spit at anyone.
hour, of every day.
Ike
Ike
> On Friday, March 29, 2013 5:40:04 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>> On 3/28/2013 6:11 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>>
>>> On Thursday, March 28, 2013 1:21:58 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> [snippeth]
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>> No, He comes with THE 144,000; the REST of the resurrected dead stay
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> behind in heaven, just as John wrote.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> That`s a lie.
>>
>>
>>
>> ...declared Satan.
>>
>>
>>
>> Meanwhile, the Word says...
>>
>>
>>
>> souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony
>>
>> which they held:
>>
>> 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and
>>
>> true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the
>>
>> earth?
>>
>> 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said
>>
>> unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their
>>
>> fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they
>>
>> were, should be fulfilled.
>>
>>
>>
>> The idiot must think there is some massive literal, physical altar on
>>
>> the earth that is holding the souls of the martyrs in it.
>>
>>
>>
>> THE DEAD IN CHRIST ARE IN HEAVEN, moron.
>>
>>
>>
>> How stupid can he be?
Ike
Ike
> On Friday, March 29, 2013 5:43:30 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>> On 3/28/2013 6:22 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> You think these fowls are angels...
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Revelation 19
>>
>>> 21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
>>
>>
>>
>> They ARE, you moron.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Ezekiel 39
>>
>>> 17 And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord God; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.
>>
>>
>>
>> LOL
>>
>>
>>
>> This speaks of the gathering of THE BELIEVERS, you moron.
>>
>>
>>
>> When will these morons ever figure out how to parse the literal and the
>>
>> spiritual through the figurative?
>>
>>
>>
>> <chuckle>
>>
>>
>>
>> Ike
>
You have no idea how to read prophecy, literalist idiot.
Ike
Ike
RELATES TO MALACHI'S PROPHECY.
Yeesh, are you ever stupid.
Ike
The moron has no idea how how the verbs relate to what John said, i.e.
"AND I SAW," as he was relating a VISION HE SAW IN THE PAST ABOUT THE
FUTURE.
Hence, IT'S ALL STATED IN THE PAST TENSE, THOUGH ITS ABOUT THE FUTURE.
<chuckle>
Moron.
Ike
Ike
Ike
[snippeth]
>> Think "birth pangs," moron.
>>
>>
>>
>> Ike
>
> You do not quote verses and you ignore the verses quoted.
JESUS DESCRIBED THE END OF THE AGE AS "BIRTHPANGS," moron.
IN FACT, THAT'S WHAT THE WORD MISTRANSLATED "SORROWS" IN THE "BEGINNING
OF SORROWS" MEANS, moron--THE BEGINNING OF THE BIRTHPANGS.
THREE OF THEM.
DIVIDED INTO THEIR RESPECTIVE SECTIONS.
SEVEN SEALS = THE BEGINNING OF SORROWS
SEVEN TRUMPETS = RISE AND RULE OF THE UNHOLY ONES
SEVEN VIALS = THE REBUKE OF GOD AND THE BEGINNING OF THE DAY OF THE LORD.
MAN, are you ever dumb.
Ike
Abrams1117
> On 3/29/2013 4:03 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>
> > On Friday, March 29, 2013 5:30:03 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > The resurrection at the 7th trump happens when he comes to rule the world.
>
>
>
> Wrong.
>
>
>
> Jesus comes at the seventh vial, moron, not the seventh trump.
>
>
>
> >>> Matthew 24
>
> >>
>
> >>> 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> Said in reference to THE REMNANT, moron.
>
> >
>
> > You can call a million people moron
>
>
>
> "The elect" is not a "million people," moron; it's 144,000.
>
>
>
> And even that event will be shrouded in death, like the martyrdom of
>
> Stephen.
>
>
>
> >> The unholy trinity's days, i.e. the 3 1/2 years that comes AFTER the one
>
> >>
>
> >> year transition, which comes AFTER the 62 years of the Beginning of Sorrows.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > You did not read the scripture the days are the days of the tribulation.
>
>
>
> There are two concepts of "tribulation" in prophecy, moron--the great
>
> tribulation of the saints, and the Great Tribulation of the world.
>
>
>
>
>
> >>> And how are they shortened?
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> There are less than there were in the FIRST iteration of Daniel, which
>
> >>
>
> >> was 1,290 days, followed by the 1,335 days.
>
> >
>
> > You are talking over the answers from scripture.
>
>
>
> No, I'm giving the answers from scripture, moron.
>
>
>
> In Daniel, which applied to the period of the Maccabean Revolt, it was
>
> 1,290 says.
>
>
>
> For the third and final iteration, John tells us its 1,260 days.
>
>
>
> > They are shortened when Jesus comes and stops them.
>
>
>
> Jesus doesn't have anything to do with the first half, moron.
>
>
>
>
>
> >> So, thanks to John, we know that the first half will be 1,260 days, but
>
> >>
>
> >> the second half is now undefined.
>
>
>
> Note no reply from the moron.
>
>
>
> >>> 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> As always, you screw up the order of things.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> The Remnant will be gathered (by hidden means, shrouded in death, as
>
> >>
>
> >> they are "beheaded," just as John said) before God begins to pour out
>
> >>
>
> >> His wrath.
>
> >
>
> > You deny the scriptures...
>
>
>
> You don't pay attention to a thing scripture says, moron.
>
>
>
> >> It doesn't say "saints," you moron; it says "his elect," IN REFERENCE TO
>
> >>
>
> >> THE 144,000.
>
> >
>
> > They are saints.
>
>
>
> BUT NOT "THE CHURCH," you moron; THE CHURCH WILL BE DEAD AND GONE LONG
>
> BEFORE THAT.
>
>
>
> Ike
Abrams1117
Abrams1117
> On 3/29/2013 4:06 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>
> > On Friday, March 29, 2013 5:35:33 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>
> >> On 3/28/2013 6:07 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> [snippeth]
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>> You are not an angel that sang at the foundation of the Earth nor are you `maybe` God as you said.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> ...said Satan in a jealous rage.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > LOL!
>
> >
>
> > Sorry, Ike, I am not jealous that you are completely nuts.
>
>
>
> LOL
>
>
>
> The moron just confessed that he's Satan.
>
>
>
> >>> Angels were never men.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> ...said Satan while spitting in Jesus' and the prophets' faces.
I said angels were never men.
Really, there have to be adult reading programs near you somewhere. Get help.
>
> >
>
> > I did not spit at anyone.
>
>
>
> You spit in the face of Jesus and the prophets every minute, of every
>
> hour, of every day.
And what makes you think I am spitting 24/7? Do you know people who do this? Do you? Exactly WHERE are you? Are there bars on the windows?
>
>
>
> Ike
Abrams1117
> On 3/29/2013 4:16 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>
> > On Friday, March 29, 2013 5:40:04 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>
> >> On 3/28/2013 6:11 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>> On Thursday, March 28, 2013 1:21:58 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> [snippeth]
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>>> No, He comes with THE 144,000; the REST of the resurrected dead stay
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>>> behind in heaven, just as John wrote.
>
> >>
>
> >>>
>
> >>
>
> >>> That`s a lie.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> ...declared Satan.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> Meanwhile, the Word says...
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony
>
> >>
>
> >> which they held:
>
> >>
>
> >> 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and
>
> >>
>
> >> true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the
>
> >>
>
> >> earth?
>
> >>
>
> >> 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said
>
> >>
>
> >> unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their
>
> >>
>
> >> fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they
>
> >>
>
> >> were, should be fulfilled.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> The idiot must think there is some massive literal, physical altar on
>
> >>
>
> >> the earth that is holding the souls of the martyrs in it.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> THE DEAD IN CHRIST ARE IN HEAVEN, moron.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> How stupid can he be?
>
>
>
> [snip the no-reply reply]
>
>
>
> Ike
Abrams1117
Come on, name some prophecies that were literal..I know you can do it...
Abrams1117
Abrams1117
Seriously, you cannot read. Get some help. It`s embarrassing.
Now, for ten points can you even begin to guess why I posted that?
I know it`s difficult.
But, if you can find some children they can read the posts and explain it to you. Seriously - seriously, I would be shocked and amazing if you could come up with this very, very childish and simple answer. It would take the average person two minutes to figure it out and they are not even in this discussion. Give it a try or ask an adult for some help explain the meaning of the words to you.
I know, I know, you are embarrassed and want to lash out in anger.
But, after so many years of trying to hide your problem has it gotten you any where?
No, you still have it and always will unless you face up to the fact that you need help for your disability.
Abrams1117
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
This is the saints ruling with him.
Revelation 2:26: “And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.”
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Abrams1117
> On 3/29/2013 4:32 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>
>
>
> [snippeth]
>
>
>
> >> Think "birth pangs," moron.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> Ike
>
> >
>
> > You do not quote verses and you ignore the verses quoted.
>
>
>
> What a God-damned (literally) fool.
>
>
>
> JESUS DESCRIBED THE END OF THE AGE AS "BIRTHPANGS," moron.
>
>
>
> IN FACT, THAT'S WHAT THE WORD MISTRANSLATED "SORROWS" IN THE "BEGINNING
>
> OF SORROWS" MEANS, moron--THE BEGINNING OF THE BIRTHPANGS.
>
>
>
> THREE OF THEM.
Now you are adding to scripture, again.
Abrams1117
> On Monday, April 1, 2013 3:51:29 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>
> > On 3/29/2013 4:32 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > [snippeth]
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > >> Think "birth pangs," moron.
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >>
>
> >
>
> > >> Ike
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > You do not quote verses and you ignore the verses quoted.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > What a God-damned (literally) fool.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > JESUS DESCRIBED THE END OF THE AGE AS "BIRTHPANGS," moron.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > IN FACT, THAT'S WHAT THE WORD MISTRANSLATED "SORROWS" IN THE "BEGINNING
>
> >
>
> > OF SORROWS" MEANS, moron--THE BEGINNING OF THE BIRTHPANGS.
>
> >
>
>
>
> You were doing okay up to this point...
>
>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > THREE OF THEM.
>
>
>
> Now you are adding to scripture, again.
>
>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > DIVIDED INTO THEIR RESPECTIVE SECTIONS.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > SEVEN SEALS = THE BEGINNING OF SORROWS
6 12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
>
> >
>
> > SEVEN TRUMPETS = RISE AND RULE OF THE UNHOLY ONES
Riddle me this...if the Sun goes dark in chapter six how does it go dark again later? Does it `come back on`?
>
> >
>
> > SEVEN VIALS = THE REBUKE OF GOD AND THE BEGINNING OF THE DAY OF THE LORD.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > MAN, are you ever dumb.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Ike
Ike
> On Monday, April 1, 2013 3:39:57 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>> On 3/29/2013 4:03 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>>
>>> On Friday, March 29, 2013 5:30:03 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> The resurrection at the 7th trump happens when he comes to rule the world.
>>
>>
>>
>> Wrong.
>
> Right.
The 7th trump is the OUTBOUND part of the story; the 7th vial is the
INBOUND part.
And they're separated from one another by as much as 1,334 days.
>> Jesus comes at the seventh vial, moron, not the seventh trump.
>
> Same thing.
into three segments, and once to draw a line straight through the story,
IN ORDER.
But the bastards puts "he says" above "God say" every time.
>>>>> Matthew 24
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> Said in reference to THE REMNANT, moron.
>
> Said in reference to every saint alive on the Earth.
THE REMNANT, moron.
>>> You can call a million people moron
>>
>>
>>
>> "The elect" is not a "million people," moron; it's 144,000.
>
> YOU, IKE, CAL CALL A MILLION PEOPLE A MORON, ETC....
TRUMPETS END AND THE SEVEN VIALS BEGIN.
>> And even that event will be shrouded in death, like the martyrdom of
>>
>> Stephen.
>>
>>
>>
>>>> The unholy trinity's days, i.e. the 3 1/2 years that comes AFTER the one
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> year transition, which comes AFTER the 62 years of the Beginning of Sorrows.
>>> You did not read the scripture the days are the days of the tribulation.
>>
>>
>>
>> There are two concepts of "tribulation" in prophecy, moron--the great
>>
>> tribulation of the saints, and the Great Tribulation of the world.
>
> Jesus was speaking of the tribulation of the saints
AND JUST LIKE JOHN.
Yeesh, are you ever stupid.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> There are less than there were in the FIRST iteration of Daniel, which
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> was 1,290 days, followed by the 1,335 days.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> You are talking over the answers from scripture.
>>
>>
>>
>> No, I'm giving the answers from scripture, moron.
>> In Daniel, which applied to the period of the Maccabean Revolt, it was
>>
>> 1,290 says.
>>
>>
>>
>> For the third and final iteration, John tells us its 1,260 days.
>>
>>
>>
>>> They are shortened when Jesus comes and stops them.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jesus doesn't have anything to do with the first half, moron.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>> So, thanks to John, we know that the first half will be 1,260 days, but
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> the second half is now undefined.
>>
>>
>>
>> Note no reply from the moron.
>>
>>
>>
>>>>> 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
>
> At the rapture.
>>>> As always, you screw up the order of things.
>>>> The Remnant will be gathered (by hidden means, shrouded in death, as
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> they are "beheaded," just as John said) before God begins to pour out
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> His wrath.
>
> They will be gathered in full view of everyone.
The first time ANYONE will begin to suspect that something is wrong with
what the unholy trinity is telling them is when they see the two
witnesses rise from the dead and ascend into heaven.
THEY WILL NOT SEE THE 144,000 TRANSLATED, anymore than anyone saw
Stephen translated.
>>> You deny the scriptures...
>>
>>
>>
>> You don't pay attention to a thing scripture says, moron.
>>>> It doesn't say "saints," you moron; it says "his elect," IN REFERENCE TO
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> THE 144,000.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> They are saints.
>>
>>
>>
>> BUT NOT "THE CHURCH," you moron; THE CHURCH WILL BE DEAD AND GONE LONG
>>
>> BEFORE THAT.
Ike
Ike
The moron still doesn't get the term "birth pangs."
[snippeth]
Ike
Ike
> On Monday, April 1, 2013 3:42:21 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>> On 3/29/2013 4:06 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>>
>>> On Friday, March 29, 2013 5:35:33 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>>
>>>> On 3/28/2013 6:07 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> [snippeth]
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> You are not an angel that sang at the foundation of the Earth nor are you `maybe` God as you said.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> ...said Satan in a jealous rage.
>>> Sorry, Ike, I am not jealous that you are completely nuts.
>>
>>
>>
>> LOL
>>
>>
>>
>> The moron just confessed that he's Satan.
confessed he is Satan]
>>>>> Angels were never men.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> ...said Satan while spitting in Jesus' and the prophets' faces.
Ike
Ike
> On Monday, April 1, 2013 3:51:29 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>> On 3/29/2013 4:32 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> [snippeth]
>>
>>
>>
>>>> Think "birth pangs," moron.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> Ike
>>
>>>
>>
>>> You do not quote verses and you ignore the verses quoted.
>>
>>
>>
>> What a God-damned (literally) fool.
>>
>>
>>
>> JESUS DESCRIBED THE END OF THE AGE AS "BIRTHPANGS," moron.
>>
>>
>>
>> IN FACT, THAT'S WHAT THE WORD MISTRANSLATED "SORROWS" IN THE "BEGINNING
>>
>> OF SORROWS" MEANS, moron--THE BEGINNING OF THE BIRTHPANGS.
>>
>
> You were doing okay up to this point...
>
>>
>>
>> THREE OF THEM.
>
> Now you are adding to scripture, again.
Abrams1117
> On 4/1/2013 7:35 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>
> > On Monday, April 1, 2013 3:39:57 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>
> >> On 3/29/2013 4:03 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>> On Friday, March 29, 2013 5:30:03 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>> The resurrection at the 7th trump happens when he comes to rule the world.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> Wrong.
>
> >
>
> > Right.
>
>
>
> WRONG, moron.
>
>
>
> The 7th trump is the OUTBOUND part of the story; the 7th vial is the
>
> INBOUND part.
>
>
>
> And they're separated from one another by as much as 1,334 days.
>
>
>
> >> Jesus comes at the seventh vial, moron, not the seventh trump.
>
> >
>
> > Same thing.
>
>
>
> What a moron: John marks the chronology TWICE--one to divide the line
>
> into three segments, and once to draw a line straight through the story,
>
> IN ORDER.
>
>
>
> But the bastards puts "he says" above "God say" every time.
>
>
>
> >>>>> Matthew 24
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>> 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>> Said in reference to THE REMNANT, moron.
>
> >
>
> > Said in reference to every saint alive on the Earth.
>
>
>
> THE ONLY "SAINTS" THAT WILL STILL BE LEFT ALIVE BY THAT POINT WILL BE
>
> THE REMNANT, moron.
>
>
>
> >>> You can call a million people moron
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> "The elect" is not a "million people," moron; it's 144,000.
>
> >
>
> > YOU, IKE, CAL CALL A MILLION PEOPLE A MORON, ETC....
>
>
>
> IT'S 144,000, moron; THAT'S ALL THAT WILL BE LEFT BY THE TIME THE SEVEN
>
> TRUMPETS END AND THE SEVEN VIALS BEGIN.
Can you understand it yet?????????
>
>
>
> >> And even that event will be shrouded in death, like the martyrdom of
>
> >>
>
> >> Stephen.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>>> The unholy trinity's days, i.e. the 3 1/2 years that comes AFTER the one
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>> year transition, which comes AFTER the 62 years of the Beginning of Sorrows.
>
>
>
> [snip the no-rebuttal rebuttal]
>
>
>
> >>> You did not read the scripture the days are the days of the tribulation.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> There are two concepts of "tribulation" in prophecy, moron--the great
>
> >>
>
> >> tribulation of the saints, and the Great Tribulation of the world.
>
> >
>
> > Jesus was speaking of the tribulation of the saints
>
>
>
> NO, HE WAS SPEAKING OF BOTH ACROSS THE ENTIRE NARRATIVE--JUST LIKE PAUL,
>
> AND JUST LIKE JOHN.
I BET YOU DO NOT.
You never do.
You cannot read.
>
>
>
> Yeesh, are you ever stupid.
>
>
>
> >>>>> And how are they shortened?
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>> There are less than there were in the FIRST iteration of Daniel, which
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>> was 1,290 days, followed by the 1,335 days.
>
> >>
>
> >>>
>
> >>
>
> >>> You are talking over the answers from scripture.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> No, I'm giving the answers from scripture, moron.
>
>
>
> [snip the no-reply reply]
>
>
>
> >> In Daniel, which applied to the period of the Maccabean Revolt, it was
>
> >>
>
> >> 1,290 says.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> For the third and final iteration, John tells us its 1,260 days.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>> They are shortened when Jesus comes and stops them.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> Jesus doesn't have anything to do with the first half, moron.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>>> So, thanks to John, we know that the first half will be 1,260 days, but
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>> the second half is now undefined.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> Note no reply from the moron.
Anyway, first you would have to make SOME sense, at least a little, before anyone can comment.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>> 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
>
> >
>
> > At the rapture.
>
>
>
> THERE IS NO "RAPTURE," moron.
Very sad indeed. Get help.
>
>
>
> >>>> As always, you screw up the order of things.
>
>
>
> [snip the stupidity]
>
>
>
> >>>> The Remnant will be gathered (by hidden means, shrouded in death, as
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>> they are "beheaded," just as John said) before God begins to pour out
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>> His wrath.
>
> >
>
> > They will be gathered in full view of everyone.
>
>
>
> FALSE.
You have NO scriptures to say what you say and yet the Bible says...
11 But after the three and a half days the breath[b] of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them. 12 Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.
-Revelation 11
>
>
>
> The first time ANYONE will begin to suspect that something is wrong with
>
> what the unholy trinity is telling them is when they see the two
>
> witnesses rise from the dead and ascend into heaven.
>
>
>
> THEY WILL NOT SEE THE 144,000 TRANSLATED, anymore than anyone saw
>
> Stephen translated.
He is still dead, just like Moses.
>
>
>
>
>
> >>> You deny the scriptures...
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> You don't pay attention to a thing scripture says, moron.
>
>
>
> [snip the no-reply reply]
>
>
>
> >>>> It doesn't say "saints," you moron; it says "his elect," IN REFERENCE TO
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>> THE 144,000.
>
> >>
>
> >>>
>
> >>
>
> >>> They are saints.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> BUT NOT "THE CHURCH," you moron; THE CHURCH WILL BE DEAD AND GONE LONG
>
> >>
>
> >> BEFORE THAT.
>
>
>
> [snip the bullshit]
>
>
>
> Ike
Do you think it is a building?????????????????
Abrams1117
Can you even begin to show where they will have 5, 7, 10, 12, 14 or any number of events?
No, so you just use the term as if you are saying something when in fact YOU KNOW that you are saying nothing at all.
Stop gloating over false pride that you have fooled people. Once people know what you are saying they will always disagree with you because you are wrong. This is why you desperately try to hide the truth of what you believe and cover it in layers of evil, hate, unusual words, history, etc. You know that no one agrees with you and will even laugh at you.
Abrams1117
> On 4/1/2013 7:41 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>
> > On Monday, April 1, 2013 3:42:21 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>
> >> On 3/29/2013 4:06 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>> On Friday, March 29, 2013 5:35:33 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>>> On 3/28/2013 6:07 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>> [snippeth]
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>> You are not an angel that sang at the foundation of the Earth nor are you `maybe` God as you said.
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>> ...said Satan in a jealous rage.
>
>
>
> [snip Satan's usual diatribe]
>
>
>
> >>> Sorry, Ike, I am not jealous that you are completely nuts.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> LOL
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> The moron just confessed that he's Satan.
HE MUST KNOW YOU BY NAME!
Abrams1117
> On 4/1/2013 7:56 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>
> > On Monday, April 1, 2013 3:51:29 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>
> >> On 3/29/2013 4:32 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> [snippeth]
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>>> Think "birth pangs," moron.
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>> Ike
>
> >>
>
> >>>
>
> >>
>
> >>> You do not quote verses and you ignore the verses quoted.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> What a God-damned (literally) fool.
You and your mental problems are in hot water and may end up in hot fire, too.
Martin Musatov
> The 1,000 Year Reign of Christ on Earth Cannot Happen!
>
>
> Before beginning, let's understand what this doctrine says:
>
> 1) A new Temple is built. Of course, the Temple
> has one main purpose, which is animal sacrifice
> for the sins of the people.
>
> 2) The Mosaic Law is now active again.
>
> 3) Jesus comes to Earth, physically and literally as
> a physical human being and rules for 1,000 years
> and does it from the Temple in Jerusalem.
>
> 4) Jesus goes into this new, rebuilt Temple and acts
> as the High Priest. This would involve sacrifices
> and running things at the Temple and performing
> the duties of the High Priest for the sacrifices also
> and it means that he can enter the "Holy of Holies"
> (God's room).
>
> 5) The Jews come there to do their thing with these
> animal sacrifices, being under the Mosaic Law and
> being able to be saved by the Mosaic Law.
>
>
> And now let's look at some problems with this and then
> we'll get to why it cannot happen:
>
> First of all, the Jews reject Christ. How are they going
> to be okay with Him being the one who does these things,
> when they reject Him as a false teacher?! If anything,
> they would stone Him for even attempting to do these
> things and for trying to enter the "Holy of Holies"!
>
> Secondly, how is Jesus going to be okay with these things
> happening, when to perform animal sacrifices is to spit in
> His face on the cross? We know it was sin for them to
> make fun of Him while He was on the cross. How much
> more evil is it for them to be rejecting the cross altogether,
> by performing animal sacrifices?
>
> Thirdly, how can Jews be saved by the Mosaic Law, when
> Paul wrote to both Jews and Gentiles that the Mosaic Law
> was incapable of saving anyone and Jesus said that no one
> comes to the Father, except through Him?
>
> The Dispensationalists don't have any good answers for
> these problems that stare in the face of their doctrine.
>
> They will, I'm sure, fire off at me with their attacks and
> call me a liar and ignore the points made here, tell me
> how I "just don't understand the Bible/have the Spirit",
> thinking themselves my teacher and will talk about
> everything except these points (except maybe to claim
> they're right and I'm wrong), but they will not have
> a good answer for the points that are listed above.
>
>
> So now, let's look at why this cannot happen:
>
> It cannot happen, because in order for the Dispensationalists
> to be right, it would mean that the Bible contradicts itself!
>
> Why do I say that? Simple. Because if their doctrine is true,
> then He is and is not the High Priest at the same time!
>
> Take a look at the Scriptures to see what I'm talking about. :)
>
> And remember as you read these Scriptures, that I am quoting
> from Hebrews here, because even the Dispy's cannot argue
> that it's different for the Jews, because they know as well as
> I do that Hebrews was written with Jewish Christians in mind.
>
> First, here, it says that Jesus is already the High Priest;
>
> "Then having a great High Priest who has passed
> through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let
> us hold fast the confession." - Hebrews 4:14
>
> Secondly, here, it says in the following that He was
> already called out to be a High Priest;
>
> "...though being a Son, [Jesus] having been called
> out by God as a High Priest according to the order
> of Melchizedek." - Hebrews 5:8a,10
>
> "But this is spiritual!", the Dispy's will shout.
>
> Well of course it is! Those who worship God,
> must worship Him in Spirit (John 4:23-24).
>
> Below, it says that we now enter in through the veil,
> which is what separated the Holy of Holies from us;
>
> "...the hope set before us and entering into the inner
> side of the veil, where Jesus entered as forerunner
> for us, having become a High Priest forever, according
> to the order of Melchizedek." - Hebrews 6:19b-20
>
> And here, below (remembering that the writer is talking
> to Jews), it says that they are saved by drawing near
> to Christ and not by the Mosaic Law and it says that
> Jesus was not to perform sacrifices, because He did
> it once, when He offered up Himself as the one time,
> eternal sacrifice for the sins of mankind!
>
> "And from this He is able to save to the end completely
> the ones drawing near to God through Him, forever
> living to intercede on their behalf. For such a High Priest
> was fitting for us: who has no need, as do the High Priests,
> to offer sacrifices day by day, first for His own sins, then
> for those of the people. For He did this once for all,
> offering up Himself." - Hebrews 7:25,27
>
> Now all of this is His position and He is in Heaven. And
> the Dispensationalists will claim that this doesn't matter,
> because they are talking about when He comes to Earth.
>
> But how can His coming to Earth negate what it says
> just above, in the quote of Hebrews 7:25,27?!
>
> And as for why it simply could not be true that He would
> come to Earth and offer sacrifices as the High Priest of
> the Jews, the next Scripture shows that in order for the
> Dispy's to be right, it would mean that Scripture ends up
> contradicting itself, since it says that if He were on Earth,
> then He simply could not be the High Priest!
>
> "For if indeed He were on earth, He would not even
> be a priest" - Hebrews 8:4
>
>
> Why do the Dispensationalists say things like;
>
> "Look vertically, not horizontally!"
>
> And...
>
> "It is not about what happens here, but what God says!"
>
> And...
>
> "It is about the spiritual, not the physical here on Earth!"
>
> And then look to the physical for their rewards?!
>
> --
>
> Pastor Dave
>
> "Who's more foolish? The fool, or the fool
> who follows him?" - Obi Wan Kenobe
there is contradiction in the words of men and there has been since begin time my God and your God speak to them lord hear our prayer let us recite the words of my father as we have them written this day hear o israel the lord your god is one +
Martin Musatov
> On Sat, 01 Jan 2011 06:26:16 -0500, Pastor Dave <newsgroup-mail @
> tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 31 Dec 2010 20:33:00 -0800, "Peter B." <p...@b.org> spake thusly:
> >
> >> Pastor Dave wrote:
> >>
> >>> The 1,000 Year Reign of Christ on Earth Cannot Happen!
> >>>
> >>> Before beginning, let's understand what this doctrine says:
> >>>
> >>> 1) A new Temple is built. Of course, the Temple
> >>> has one main purpose, which is animal sacrifice
> >>> for the sins of the people.
> >>>
> >>> 2) The Mosaic Law is now active again.
> >>>
> >>> 3) Jesus comes to Earth, physically and literally as
> >>> a physical human being and rules for 1,000 years
> >>> and does it from the Temple in Jerusalem.
> >>>
> >>> 4) Jesus goes into this new, rebuilt Temple and acts
> >>> as the High Priest. This would involve sacrifices
> >>> and running things at the Temple and performing
> >>> the duties of the High Priest for the sacrifices also
> >>> and it means that he can enter the "Holy of Holies"
> >>> (God's room).
> >>
> >
>
> >
> >It's okay Peter, don't worry. We all expected you to do this
> >little act you perform, trying to obfuscate and play your little
> >game of dodge ball! :)
>
> No, "all" of us did not expect Peter to do anything, but "we all" knew
> exactly what you would do, the same as you always do trying to defend
> your defenseless doctrine.
>
> Bear
though my Father did expect him to do one thing three times and this is the love told he my Father at his asking for long ago had the past put to rest the pain of his denial the law is the law this much Peter is sure it is why he is my Father's rock I tell you these things in truth I did not expect him Peter did therefore he is greater than I
Martin Musatov
> On Tue, 4 Jan 2011 15:43:03 -0600, Ike E 1/1/11 wrote:
>
> > "Peter B." <p...@b.org> wrote in message news:a42y40y7peyt$.dlg@4ever.his...
> >> On Sat, 1 Jan 2011 23:20:07 -0600, Ike E 1/1/11 wrote:
> >>
> >>> "Peter B." <p...@b.org> wrote in message news:scr73ukzwxq$.dlg@4ever.his...
> >>>> On Sat, 1 Jan 2011 12:57:29 -0600, Ike E 1/1/11 wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> You really need to go learn something about prophecy before insinuating
> >>>>> that
> >>>>> you know anything about it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On the up side...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Zec 2:12 And the LORD shall inherit Judah his portion in the holy
> >>>>> land,
> >>>>> and
> >>>>> shall choose Jerusalem again.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On the down side...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Re 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and
> >>>>> measure
> >>>>> it
> >>>>> not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they
> >>>>> tread
> >>>>> under foot forty and two months.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [chuckle and snip the rest of the idiot's dawdle]
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ike
> >>>
> >>> Sorry, but I screwed up the headers somehow--this was directed at Pester
> >>> Dave.
> >>>
> >>>> Ike, you might want to reconsider your ideas as well. Re 11:2 has to do
> >>>> with the 7 year period. 2-42 month segments.
> >>>
> >>> First, I know precisely which section of Revelation goes where, as John's
> >>> chronological scroll in Revelation is based on Jesus' three-part outline
> >>> in
> >>> the Olivet Discourse (which itself was based on Daniel's three-part
> >>> form).
> >>>
> >>> Seven Seals = Beginning of Sorrows (62 years).
> >>> Seven Trumpets = the rise (1 year) and rule (3 1/2 years, or 42 months,
> >>> or a
> >>> "time, times, and half a time) of the unholy trinity.
> >>> Seven Vials = the rebuke of God and the beginning of the Day of the Lord
> >>> (a.k.a. the Millennium).
> >>>
> >>
> >> I am still going through all of this. Where do you get your 70 weeks from.
> >> I am aware of the 70 weeks of years.
> >
> > Oh, are you?
Yes. But so you should know the truth he is. There are 0.3461538461538462 +1 year in those 70 weeks. My Father asks me to be exact with this on so I am.> >
>
> Yes, also 70 years by some and now your defintion whatever it is.
>
> > First, Gabriel said "70 weeks," not "70 weeks of years."
> >
>
> In Daniel 9:24 It says 70 7's, so since you have not defined it, it could
> well be 70 x 1000 years per your chart below, or 70 x 1 day.
>
>
> > Second, "weeks" is a multilayered concept in the Old Testament, and is not
> > always seven years.
> >
> > 1) A "week" = seven days.
> > 2) A "week" = seven x seven + one weeks of days to make a year (Sabbath
> > rules and luni-solar synchronization not withstanding).
> > 3) A "week" = seven years to make a sabbatical cycle. [see Lev 25]
> > 4) A "week" = seven x seven + 1 years to make a Jubilee cycle. [see Lev 25]
> > 5) A "week" can be a 1,000 year "day" in a 7,000-year "week."
> >
> > And so on, and so forth.
> >
> So which is it?
>
> > Third, there isn't a single prophecy in the Bible that says the End of the
> > Age will be seven years only; there are seven OT prophecies that say seventy
> > YEARS, which John utilized in Revelation.
> >
> Who said there was?
>
>
> > So the first mistake of all the would-be prognosticators is that the end of
> > the age is only seven years.
> >
>
> It is a mistake on your part to assume anyone said that.
>
> > The second mistake is taking a three-part story and turning it into a
> > one-part story: John's chronological three-part scroll is based on Jesus'
> > three-part outline, which is based on Daniel's three-part form.
> >
> Problem is, we are having difficulties even addressint the first part of
> this portion of the thread. You gave a bunch of possibilities, not what you
> said you knew.
>
> >> What is the time frame of the 1/2 hour?
> >
> > No irreverent to the immediate discussion.
> >
>
> Maybe not at this time, but it is relevant to the seventh seal and the
> seventh trumpent.
>
> >> The seventh seal comes after or at the same time of the seventh trumet?
> >
> > No.
> >
> > The seven seals are Jesus' Beginning of Sorrows (62 years).
> > The seven trumpets are the rise (1 year) and rule (3 1/2 years) of the
> > unholy trinity over Jerusalem.
> > The seven vials are the rebuke of God (up to 3 1/2 years) and the beginning
> > of the "day" (1,000 years) of the Lord.
> >
>
> So are the seven trumpets between the 6th and 7th seal, after the sixth had
> been finished but before the 7 th seal or after the 7th seal but before it
> is finished?
>
> > John was following Jesus' Olivet Discourse (from some early version of the
> > canonical Gospel of Matthew) point-for-point.
> >
> > Frauds have tried to change the story.
> >
> >> What are you saying about the seven vials? The time frame. I am aware of
> >> the purging that God is going to do with the Jews and in particular the
> >> Levites, a terrible time of Gods wrath.
> >
> > What is with all of this irrelevant bullshit?
> >
>
> You might like to rephrase that.
>
> After the tribulation is completed begins the millennial reign of Christ.
>
> > 1) The believers are accused, abused, misused, and executed until no one is
> > left except the Remnant. (The seven seals)
> > 2) The unholy trinity polishes off whoever is left, except the
> > Christian-Israelite Remnant (which they can't touch).
> > 3) In the last hour, God gathers the Remnant (and JUST the Remnant) and
> > pours out His wrath against the world for persecuting His saints. (the seven
> > vials)
> >
> >> I'd like to get through this before addressing the rest.
> >
> > I'd like you to get the basics before worrying about erroneous
> > irrelevancies--the "Israel" to come is NOT the "Israel" that was (the
> > children of the Old Testament), or the "Israel" that is (Christianity). It's
> > a whole new "Israel."
> >
> >>> Second, there are not two 42-month segments. In the first iteration,
> >>> Daniel
> >>> divided the last seven years into 1290 days and 1335 days. In the first
> >>> iteration, that was from the first abomination of desolation by Antiochus
> >>> IV
> >>> Epiphanes to the cleansing of the Temple (commemorated at Hanukah) and
> >>> the
> >>> cleansing of the Temple to the Jews' victory of the Seleucids, regaining
> >>> their independence.
> >>>
> >>> Now Jesus said "except those days be shortened, no flesh would be left
> >>> alive. What days was He talking about? The days in both sections of the
> >>> last
> >>> seven years. John declares the first half to be 1260 days (instead of
> >>> 1290),
> >>> and Jesus left the second half undefined--He can come any time after the
> >>> third Abomination of Desolation is destroyed.
> >>>
> >>>> Read Ezekiel to see what the Lord has in store for the Tribes of Israel.
> >>>
> >>> Ezekiel is Triune just like every other prophecy in the Bible.
> >>>
> >>> First, it pertained to the history of Israel (primarily literally with
> >>> figurative elements).
> >>> Second, it pertained to the intermediate history of the Church and Jesus'
> >>> First Advent (primarily figurative with literal elements).
> >>> Third, it will pertain to the End of the Age.
> >>>
> >>> Then you have the issue of what is and is not "Israel."
> >>>
> >>> Israel "was" literally in the twelve tribes of the Old Testament.
> >>> Israel "is" spiritually in the Gentile believers.
> >>> Israel "will be" again starting with the Remnant to come which will "keep
> >>> the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ," etc,
> >>> etc.
> >>> In other words, the "Israel" yet to come isn't the Israel that "was" nor
> >>> the
> >>> Israel that "is," but is comprised of both.
> >>>
> >>>> It
> >>>> lays out the land, banded from top to bottom. It is much larger than
> >>>> Israel
> >>>> has ever been and what it should have been from the beginning. The New
> >>>> Temple is pure Huge, dwarfs the old temple, Solomons temple completely.
> >>>
> >>> You missed another point: The Temple "was," and then was destroyed in 587
> >>> BC. The Temple "is" and then was destroyed in 70 AD. The Temple "will be"
> >>> again, and Jesus will destroy that one when He comes, too.
> >>>
> >>>> The New and probably last Covenant of Peace also appears to be
> >>>> Jeremiah's
> >>>> Covenant. I would be interested in the thoughts others regarding these
> >>>> two
> >>>> being the same. It will last approx 1000 years.
> >>>
> >>> It's not a "new" covenant per se. It's the first two "reconciled," which
> >>> is
> >>> why Jesus called the thing to come "the restoration." And it will start
> >>> with
> >>> a select Remnant known only to God that will "sing the song of Moses the
> >>> Servant of God and the song of the Lamb," etc, etc.
> >>>
> >>>> Woe to the Jews, especially those of the tribe of Levites. The beginning
> >>>> of
> >>>> the millenium will be harsh, I wept with Ezekial regarding it. Take heed
> >>>> oh
> >>>> Israel, harken unto the Lord lest these things befall thee and thy
> >>>> family.
> >>>
> >>> The "Israel" in the End of the Age will not be the Israel that "was" nor
> >>> the
> >>> Israel that "is." It will be an entirely new "Israel" altogether, though
> >>> it
> >>> will come from the "father" Israel that has passed already, and the
> >>> "mother"
> >>> Israel that is passing even now.
> >>>
> >>
> >> All I know at this point is that it is the same Israel as the Covenant
> >> with
> >> Abraham, the same descendents, the same 12 tribes all carefully lined our
> >> in the redefined borders of Israel.
> >
> > No, it's not.
> >
> > God is NOT going backward; He's going forward.
> >
> > Israel that "was" is over.
> > Israel as it "is" is about to be over.
> > That leaves the Israel that "is to come," starting with those 144,000
> > Israelite-Chrsitians John keeps talking about.
> >
> > The third Israel will be "of" the Old Testament people, but it will be "of"
> > the New Testament, too, beginning a new phase in God's plan--the
> > reconciliation.
> >
> >> I also suspect it will make the
> >> Beautiful Temple of Solomon will pale by comparison.
> >
> > It'll be a Temple of Abomination just like the first two.
> >
> > But that's how turned-around Satan has the churches--there are fools who
> > think that the children of the Pharisees (who are NOT "Jews" but "those who
> > say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie") rebuilding the temple is a
> > "good" thing.
> >
> > Nothing could be further from the truth.
> >
> > Ike
+
Martin Musatov
> On Mon, 03 Jan 2011 09:19:36 -0500, Pastor Dave <newsgroup-mail @
> tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 2 Jan 2011 11:30:54 -0800, "Peter B." <p...@b.org> spake thusly:
> >
> >
> >>>> Henceforth unless I see a major apology
> >>>> for your actions you will be known as the
> >>>> Pastor from Hell.
> >>>
> >>> "From" or "to"?
> >>
> >> From him to everyone in this group.
> >
> >Another "demand tactic" designed to avoid the issue.
> >
> >If you really want to "make a point", then doesn't it
> >make sense that the best way to do that, is by proving
> >that your doctrine is sound and shutting me up for
> >good about it? It seems to me that that would make
> >one Hell of a point! :)
> >
>
> Is that not special, coming from the one that would love nothing
> better than to "shut me up" by proving his bogus doctrine, however,
> since he cannot do so in a debate where he must answer questions and
> provide proof, he is reduced to using his "kill file". Yep, that Dave
> is a real Bible scholar, unless, he has to prove what he promotes.
>
>
>
> >
> >> You are calling me a liar without cause.
> >
> >Then prove it, Peter! As of now, we still don't have
> >an answer from you about this!
> >
> He demands that others prove something, but he does not have to. Oh,
> I forgot, he is a "pastor", therefore it is our duty to take his word
> for everything.
> >
> >> You are so blind that you do not see!
> >
> >You keep making this claim, yet you keep snipping the text.
> >
> A trait that he learned from you, no doubt.
>
> Bear
>
>
> >So if I am so blind, then explain it to me. Here it is again:
> >
> >You believe that Jesus comes to Earth, physically and literally
> >
> >Fact: The Bible says that we have a High Priest in Jesus:
> > "Then having a great High Priest who has passed
> > through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let
> > us hold fast the confession." - Hebrews 4:14
> >
> > out by God as a High Priest according to the order
> > of Melchizedek." - Hebrews 5:8a,10
> >
> > not even a priest at all, let alone the High Priest.
> > "For if indeed He were on earth, He would not even
> >
> >Now how do you reconcile this obvious problem for your doctrine?
> >
> >You claim I am blind, so tell me. How? Educate me, Peter. How?
to settle the matter the thousand year reign is my father's in whole
Ike
> On Friday, April 5, 2013 7:01:37 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>> On 4/1/2013 7:35 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>>
>>> On Monday, April 1, 2013 3:39:57 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>>
>>>> On 3/29/2013 4:03 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> On Friday, March 29, 2013 5:30:03 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> The resurrection at the 7th trump happens when he comes to rule the world.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> Wrong.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Right.
>>
>>
>>
>> WRONG, moron.
>>
>>
>>
>> The 7th trump is the OUTBOUND part of the story; the 7th vial is the
>>
>> INBOUND part.
>
>
> Unfortunately, reals Bibles do not have the words outbound part of the story and inbound part.
What a moron.
>> And they're separated from one another by as much as 1,334 days.
>>
>>
>>
>>>> Jesus comes at the seventh vial, moron, not the seventh trump.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Same thing.
>>
>>
>>
>> What a moron: John marks the chronology TWICE--one to divide the line
>>
>> into three segments, and once to draw a line straight through the story,
>>
>> IN ORDER.
>>
>>
>>
>> But the bastards puts "he says" above "God say" every time.
>
> Where does it say `God say`?
Revelation is based, as Jesus is God.
2) "God said" when He gave John TWO sets of markers to handle the
chronological scroll in Revelation.
3) "God said" when He gave Daniel a THREE-PART form outline the
fulfillment of prophecy.
And so on, and so forth.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>> 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> Said in reference to THE REMNANT, moron.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Said in reference to every saint alive on the Earth.
>>
>>
>>
>> THE ONLY "SAINTS" THAT WILL STILL BE LEFT ALIVE BY THAT POINT WILL BE
>>
>> THE REMNANT, moron.
>
>
> Then say that
But then JOHN CLARIFIES TERMS, SAYING THAT THE REMNANT WILL BE
"BEHEADED," HENCE, NO "RAPTURE."
THERE WON'T BE ANY VISIBLE SIGN THAT THE SAINTS ARE RAISED UNTIL THE
WORLD SEES THE TWO WITNESSES--MOSES AND ELIJAH--RISE FROM THE DEAD, AND
ASCEND INTO HEAVEN.
>>>>> You can call a million people moron
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> "The elect" is not a "million people," moron; it's 144,000.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> YOU, IKE, CAL CALL A MILLION PEOPLE A MORON, ETC....
>>
>>
>>
>> IT'S 144,000, moron; THAT'S ALL THAT WILL BE LEFT BY THE TIME THE SEVEN
>>
>> TRUMPETS END AND THE SEVEN VIALS BEGIN.
>
> You truly need serious reading help.
any other prophecy of the Bible for that matter.
>>>> And even that event will be shrouded in death, like the martyrdom of
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> Stephen.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> The unholy trinity's days, i.e. the 3 1/2 years that comes AFTER the one
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> year transition, which comes AFTER the 62 years of the Beginning of Sorrows.
>>
>>
>>
>> [snip the no-rebuttal rebuttal]
>>
>>
>>
>>>>> You did not read the scripture the days are the days of the tribulation.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> There are two concepts of "tribulation" in prophecy, moron--the great
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> tribulation of the saints, and the Great Tribulation of the world.
>
>
> Post the scriptures or stop creating your own cult book.
blithering idiot.
THE GREAT TRIBULATION OF THE SAINTS...
2Th 1:
3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is meet,
because that your faith groweth exceedingly, and the charity of every
one of you all toward each other aboundeth;
4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your
patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
5 � Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye
may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to
them that trouble you;
THE GREAT TRIBULATION OF THE WORLD FOR TRIBULATING THE SAINTS...
2Th 1:
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall
be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that
obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence
of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired
in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed)
in that day.
>>> Jesus was speaking of the tribulation of the saints
>>
>>
>>
>> NO, HE WAS SPEAKING OF BOTH ACROSS THE ENTIRE NARRATIVE--JUST LIKE PAUL,
>>
>> AND JUST LIKE JOHN.
>> Yeesh, are you ever stupid.
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>>> And how are they shortened?
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> There are less than there were in the FIRST iteration of Daniel, which
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> was 1,290 days, followed by the 1,335 days.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> You are talking over the answers from scripture.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> No, I'm giving the answers from scripture, moron.
>> [snip the no-reply reply]
>>
>>
>>
>>>> In Daniel, which applied to the period of the Maccabean Revolt, it was
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> 1,290 says.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> For the third and final iteration, John tells us its 1,260 days.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> They are shortened when Jesus comes and stops them.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> Jesus doesn't have anything to do with the first half, moron.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> So, thanks to John, we know that the first half will be 1,260 days, but
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> the second half is now undefined.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> Note no reply from the moron.
>>>>>>> 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> At the rapture.
>>
>>
>>
>> THERE IS NO "RAPTURE," moron.
>>>>>> As always, you screw up the order of things.
>>
>>
>>
>> [snip the stupidity]
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>> The Remnant will be gathered (by hidden means, shrouded in death, as
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> they are "beheaded," just as John said) before God begins to pour out
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> His wrath.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> They will be gathered in full view of everyone.
>>
>>
>>
>> FALSE.
>
>
> Really?
>
>
> You have NO scriptures to say what you say and yet the Bible says...
>
> -Revelation 11
That passage is about the two witnesses, i.e. Moses and Elijah, moron;
NOT THE REMNANT.
Yeesh, you can't even get the simplest facts right.
>> The first time ANYONE will begin to suspect that something is wrong with
>>
>> what the unholy trinity is telling them is when they see the two
>>
>> witnesses rise from the dead and ascend into heaven.
>>
>>
>>
>> THEY WILL NOT SEE THE 144,000 TRANSLATED, anymore than anyone saw
>>
>> Stephen translated.
>
> Stephen died.
Ac 7:
54 � When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they
gnashed on him with their teeth.
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into
heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand
of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man
standing on the right hand of God.
57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and
ran upon him with one accord,
58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid
down their clothes at a young man�s feet, whose name was Saul.
59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus,
receive my spirit.
60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this
sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
>>>>> You deny the scriptures...
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> You don't pay attention to a thing scripture says, moron.
>>
>>
>>
>> [snip the no-reply reply]
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>> It doesn't say "saints," you moron; it says "his elect," IN REFERENCE TO
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> THE 144,000.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> They are saints.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> BUT NOT "THE CHURCH," you moron; THE CHURCH WILL BE DEAD AND GONE LONG
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> BEFORE THAT.
>>
>>
>>
>> [snip the bullshit]
>>
>>
>>
>> Ike
>
> The Church is the believers.
There are THREE groups of "believers," you blithering idiot.
Old Testament Israelites (who were Israelites indeed), New Testament
Christians (who are Christians indeed, not you), and THE REMNANT YET TO
COME.
Isa 44:5 One shall say, I am the LORD�S; and another shall call himself
by the name of Jacob; and another shall subscribe with his hand unto the
LORD, and surname himself by the name of Israel.
Can you count to three, moron?
The assembly of God will be TRIUNE, JUST LIKE GOD HIMSELF.
<chuckle>
Ike
Ike
EACH INCREASING IN INTENSITY...
...LIKE BIRTHPANGS.
Yeesh, are you ever stupid.
Ike
> On Friday, April 5, 2013 7:05:32 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>> On 4/1/2013 7:56 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>>
>>> On Monday, April 1, 2013 3:51:29 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>>
>>>> On 3/29/2013 4:32 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> [snippeth]
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> Think "birth pangs," moron.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>> Ike
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> You do not quote verses and you ignore the verses quoted.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> What a God-damned (literally) fool.
>>>> JESUS DESCRIBED THE END OF THE AGE AS "BIRTHPANGS," moron.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> IN FACT, THAT'S WHAT THE WORD MISTRANSLATED "SORROWS" IN THE "BEGINNING
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> OF SORROWS" MEANS, moron--THE BEGINNING OF THE BIRTHPANGS.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>> You were doing okay up to this point...
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> THREE OF THEM.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Now you are adding to scripture, again.
>>
>>
>>
>> Like I said: A God-damned (literally) fool.
>>
>>
>>
>>>> DIVIDED INTO THEIR RESPECTIVE SECTIONS.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> SEVEN SEALS = THE BEGINNING OF SORROWS
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> SEVEN TRUMPETS = RISE AND RULE OF THE UNHOLY ONES
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> SEVEN VIALS = THE REBUKE OF GOD AND THE BEGINNING OF THE DAY OF THE LORD.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> MAN, are you ever dumb.
Ike
Abrams1117
> On 4/5/2013 8:10 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>
> > On Friday, April 5, 2013 7:01:37 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>
> >> On 4/1/2013 7:35 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>> On Monday, April 1, 2013 3:39:57 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>>> On 3/29/2013 4:03 PM, Abrams1117 wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>> On Friday, March 29, 2013 5:30:03 AM UTC-3, Ike wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>> The resurrection at the 7th trump happens when he comes to rule the world.
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>> Wrong.
>
> >>
>
> >>>
>
> >>
>
> >>> Right.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> WRONG, moron.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> The 7th trump is the OUTBOUND part of the story; the 7th vial is the
>
> >>
>
> >> INBOUND part.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Unfortunately, reals Bibles do not have the words outbound part of the story and inbound part.
>
>
>
> LOL
>
>
>
> What a moron.
> > -Revelation 11
>
>
>
> That passage is about the two witnesses, i.e. Moses and Elijah, moron;
>
> NOT THE REMNANT.
>
>
>
> Yeesh, you can't even get the simplest facts right.
>
>
>
> >> The first time ANYONE will begin to suspect that something is wrong with
>
> >>
>
> >> what the unholy trinity is telling them is when they see the two
>
> >>
>
> >> witnesses rise from the dead and ascend into heaven.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> THEY WILL NOT SEE THE 144,000 TRANSLATED, anymore than anyone saw
>
> >>
>
> >> Stephen translated.
>
> >
>
> > Stephen died.
>
>
>
> STEPHEN WAS TRANSLATED BEFORE HIS BODY WAS DEAD, moron.
>
>
>
> Ac 7:
>
> gnashed on him with their teeth.
>
> 55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into
>
> heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand
>
> of God,
>
> 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man
>
> standing on the right hand of God.
>
> 57 Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and
>
> ran upon him with one accord,
>
> 58 And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid
>
> 59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus,
>
> receive my spirit.
>
> 60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this
>
> sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.
>
>
>
>
>
> >>>>> You deny the scriptures...
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>> You don't pay attention to a thing scripture says, moron.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> [snip the no-reply reply]
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>>> It doesn't say "saints," you moron; it says "his elect," IN REFERENCE TO
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>>> THE 144,000.
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>> They are saints.
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>> BUT NOT "THE CHURCH," you moron; THE CHURCH WILL BE DEAD AND GONE LONG
>
> >>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>>> BEFORE THAT.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> [snip the bullshit]
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> Ike
>
> >
>
> > The Church is the believers.
>
>
>
> What a moron.
>
>
>
> There are THREE groups of "believers," you blithering idiot.
>
>
>
> Old Testament Israelites (who were Israelites indeed), New Testament
>
> Christians (who are Christians indeed, not you), and THE REMNANT YET TO
>
> COME.
>
>
>