Circumcision by the Spirit
Joe4jesus
Romans 2:28-29, "A man is not a Jew if he is only one
outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and
physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and
circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit,
not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from
men, but from God.(NIV)" Circumcision of the heart means
simply that we are tranformed from the inside to live
according to the will of God. If we are transformed from
the inside, we need no written code telling us how
we should live. This includes even the ten commandments.
We will never experience the fullness of the New
Covenant if we stay bound to written rules and regulations.
What most fail to realize is that the Lord actually wants us
to surpass the law. The law was never meant to be the
ultimate standard. Do you think the Lord is happy that we
may have enough anger to murder someone, yet we stop
short of murder because of the commandment to not kill?
No. He wants us to grow to the point that the anger never
gets to that point. This is but one example of how the Spirit
will take us past the requirements of the law, if we would
just let Him. The law is only meant for those who are without
the Spirit. Those with the Spirit need no law, because the
very motivations to sin are changed from the inside, by the
Spirit, instead of trying to impose law, from the outside, on
a still unchanged heart.
In Christ's Love
Joe Elliott
http://members.aol.com/joe4jesus/index.htm
Tim Taylor
--- Joe4...@aol.com wrote:
> May I please share a brief thought? Let's read
> Romans 2:28-29, "A man is not a Jew if he is only one
> outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and
> physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and
> circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit,
> not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from
> men, but from God.(NIV)" Circumcision of the heart means
> simply that we are tranformed from the inside to live
> according to the will of God. If we are transformed from
> the inside, we need no written code telling us how
> we should live. This includes even the ten commandments.
Tim Taylor
Some elementary reasoning errors here.
1. Assumes Paul has some authority to contradict precepts of the Old
Testament.
2. These claims clearly contradict the OT:
Psalms 19 (ASV)
7
The law of Jehovah is PERFECT, restoring the soul: The testimony of
Jehovah is
sure, making wise the simple.
and:
Psalms 119 (NIV)
89
Your word, O LORD, is eternal; it stands firm in the heavens
160
"All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal"
Psalms tells the reader the law is perfect and eternal and along comes
Joe to
tell us otherwise, and in doing so begging the question that Paul
speaks for
God.
>Joe
> We will never experience the fullness of the New Covenant if we stay bound
>to written rules and regulations.
> What most fail to realize is that the Lord actually wants us to surpass the
>law. The law was never meant to be the ultimate standard.
Tim Taylor
Assertions are nice, but they prove nothing:
Isaiah 8:20
20
To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to
this word, they have no light of dawn.
According to Isaiah, Joe has no light of dawn.
>Joe
>Do you think the Lord is happy that we may have enough anger to murder
>someone, yet we stop short of murder because of the commandment to not kill?
Tim Taylor
No, I think he would be happy if you went ahead and actually murdered
the
infants in question:
1 Samuel 15:3
3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and
spare
them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and
sheep, camel
and ass.
You seem to be under the false impression that this forum is a church,
and that
your sermons, thus far filled with nothing but assertion after
assertion will
have some impact on the readers here.
They don't. Good day.
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Brad
> May I please share a brief thought? Let's read
> Romans 2:28-29, "A man is not a Jew if he is only one
> outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and
> physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and
> circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit,
> not by the written code.
>Such a man's praise is not from
> men, but from God.(NIV)" Circumcision of the heart means
> simply that we are tranformed from the inside to live
> according to the will of God. If we are transformed from
> the inside, we need no written code telling us how
> we should live.
Brad:
So saith a character called Paul.
And because a character called Paul didn't want to keep Yahweh's laws
and promoted a new religion based on faith in a human sacrifice, that
gives believers the license to the ignore them as well.
Yet, following the law is declared as being the path to righteousness.
Deut 6:24-25
And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD
our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it
is at this day.
And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these
commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.
Psa 119:1-4
Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the LORD.
Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the
whole heart.
They also do no iniquity: they walk in his ways.
Thou hast commanded us to keep thy precepts diligently.
Despite these declarations, your sermon claims that believers no
longer need the law of God.
Apparently the word of Paul the man trumps the word of Yahweh the God.
Joe4jesus:
> This includes even the ten commandments.
Brad:
It's interesting how the law of God goes out of style at the whim of
believers who don't want to do the work of keeping it.
Joe4jesus:
> We will never experience the fullness of the New
> Covenant if we stay bound to written rules and regulations.
Brad:
Where does the New Covenant, as defined in the Old Testament, state
that the law of God would be replaced by faith in a human sacrifice?
Where does it state that the law of God would be replaced by anything?
Joe4jesus:
> What most fail to realize is that the Lord actually wants us
> to surpass the law. The law was never meant to be the
> ultimate standard.
Brad:
The law was never meant to be the ultimate standard?
Psa 19:7
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of
the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Psa 119:151-152,155
Thou art near, O LORD; and all thy commandments are truth.
Concerning thy testimonies, I have known of old that thou hast founded
them for ever.
Salvation is far from the wicked: for they seek not thy statutes.
Joe4jesus:
<snip>
> The law is only meant for those who are without the Spirit.
Brad:
No, the law is meant for anyone who wants to be part of Yahweh's fold.
Psa 119:115
Depart from me, ye evildoers: for I will keep the commandments of my
God.
Those who attempt to ignore the law of God are called "evildoers".
You may want to take note of it.
Joe4jesus:
> Those with the Spirit need no law, because the
> very motivations to sin are changed from the inside, by the
> Spirit, instead of trying to impose law, from the outside, on
> a still unchanged heart.
Brad:
According to Isaiah, there is no light of truth in Paul or in you.
Isa 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this
word, it is because there is no light in them.