Where to get REAL Licher and Giessener beer?
John L. Wilkerson Jr.
Myself and some associates are in search of a source of Licher and
Giessener beer.
We want the REAL thing, not the for-import to the U.S. The US laws
regarding beer degrade from enjoyment of a good brew.
As such, if there is anyone or any way to help us acquire these beers on
a regular basis, please contact me...
Thank you!
Don Scheidt
"John L. Wilkerson Jr." <jwil...@netcom.com> wrote:
>Myself and some associates are in search of a source of Licher and
>Giessener beer.
>We want the REAL thing, not the for-import to the U.S. The US laws
>regarding beer degrade from enjoyment of a good brew.
Please state what you believe thse "US laws" to be. Also, as I
haven't seen Giessener or Licher beers imported into the USA,
please tell me where you've seen them - in the USA. I have had
both of these in Germany, of course. Decent pilsners, both of
them, and Lich likes to trade on the "green, all-organic" image.
If you are laboring under the delusion that USA laws somehow require
that German beer be "dumbed down", you have quite a lot to learn.
>As such, if there is anyone or any way to help us acquire these beers on
>a regular basis, please contact me...
If these beers are not available in the USA, your options are quite
limited: go to Germany and haul some back, or start an importing
company, so you can make sure that stores are stocked with your
product.
--
Don Scheidt, dgs1300[AT]teleport.com (Replace [AT] with @.)
The Northwest BrewPage - http://www.teleport.com/~dgs1300/index.shtml
Spammers suck, and I don't do business with them.
I *do* get spammers' Internet access removed from time to time.
John L. Wilkerson Jr.
NoSpam_...@teleport.com_nOsPaM (Don Scheidt) writes:
>"John L. Wilkerson Jr." <jwil...@netcom.com> wrote:
>>Myself and some associates are in search of a source of Licher and
>>Giessener beer.
>>We want the REAL thing, not the for-import to the U.S. The US laws
>>regarding beer degrade from enjoyment of a good brew.
>Please state what you believe thse "US laws" to be. Also, as I
>haven't seen Giessener or Licher beers imported into the USA,
>please tell me where you've seen them - in the USA. I have had
>both of these in Germany, of course. Decent pilsners, both of
>them, and Lich likes to trade on the "green, all-organic" image.
>If you are laboring under the delusion that USA laws somehow require
>that German beer be "dumbed down", you have quite a lot to learn.
>>As such, if there is anyone or any way to help us acquire these beers on
>>a regular basis, please contact me...
>If these beers are not available in the USA, your options are quite
>limited: go to Germany and haul some back, or start an importing
>company, so you can make sure that stores are stocked with your
>product.
Those two beers are in Germany. Myself and friends want some.
US laws regulate alcohol content in beer. I have yet to see a beer in
the U.S. that has a 14 percent alcohol content. Drinking the "real
thing" overseas and then drinking the "U.S. version" are quite two
different things.
--
John L. Wilkerson Jr. jwil...@netcom.com
http://members.tripod.com/~jwilkers/frspage.html
Supporting two-way radio for the family of the modern era.
Support the us.* hierarchy! Request your ISP add all us.* groups today!
Spamgard(tm) in effect to attend to unwanted commercial email.
Joel_Plutchak
In article <jwilkersE...@netcom.com> jwil...@netcom.com (John L. Wilkerson Jr.) writes:
>US laws regulate alcohol content in beer. I have yet to see a beer in
>the U.S. that has a 14 percent alcohol content. Drinking the "real
>thing" overseas and then drinking the "U.S. version" are quite two
>different things.
The US government does not regulate the strength of beer.
Some states do concern themselves with restrictions and conditions
on the sale of alcoholic beverages. It doesn't have much to do
with what is and isn't available in the US. I regularly see higher-
alcohol beer here, e.g., Samuel Adams Triple Bock, a variety
of Belgian tripels and strong ales, barleywines, etc.
I am curious about one thing. What are all these "14%
alcohol content" beers you mention, and is that percentage
by weight or by volume?
--
Joel Plutchak
Spammers casually ignored, jerks cheerfully killfiled.
Jon Binkley
John L. Wilkerson Jr. wrote:
>US laws regulate alcohol content in beer.
No. Some state laws regulate it, but no federal laws do.
>I have yet to see a beer in
>the U.S. that has a 14 percent alcohol content.
Then you need to get out more.
>Drinking the "real
>thing" overseas and then drinking the "U.S. version" are quite two
>different things.
In some cases, I agree. However, those cases are all about freshness
and flavor, not about alcohol content. A handful of German brewers
are rumored to brew a "special" version for American export, supposedly
containing corn grits and less hops to dumb the flavor down to what
they imagine we want, but even these have just as much alcohol as
versions in the Fatherland.
Mostly the differences have to to with pasteurization and age, both
of which dull the flavors of imports relative to their native condition.
For the most part, you're better off sticking to locally produced
craft beers (or more frequent trips to Europe).
Anyway, there are plenty of American made beers, and beers imported
to America, that have high (>10% by volume) alcohol contents. A few
backward states do restrict or ban their sale, however.
If all you're concerned with is alcohol, why not just stick to the
hard stuff? 40% abv Vodka will do ya a lot faster, cheaper, and
more painlessly than 17.5% Samuel Adams Triple Bock, or 14% EKU 28,
and you can buy it even in those uncivilized states that have stupid
beer laws.
Alan Follett
It seems this comes up every month or so (have we got it on FAQ? If
not, it should be!) So, once again: U.S. national law does not
restrict the alcohol percentage of beer. This area is generally subject
to state, not Federal control. There are a handful of states which do
restrict alcohol level, and others which limit the term "beer" to
products under a certan percentage; this means that higher-octane brews
can be sold, but must be labelled as malt liquor or some other term.
And, yes, there are a handful of beers over 14% made and sold in the
U.S. -- though this strength is rare anywhere in the world; the brewing
process does not readily lend itself to producing alcohol levels lethal
to yeast. The current U.S. example which first comes to mind is Samuel
Adams Triple Bock (I believe I recall something like 17.5%?)
I'm not aware of any imports which are produced in a dumbed-down version
specifically for the U.S. market; I imagine that even if there were
marketing advantages to doing so, this would be economically feasible
only for the highest-volume imports. Licher and Giesenner have never
been sold in the U.S. that I am aware of, but if they were it would most
likely be in exactly the same version sold domestically. If an import
here seems less impressive than the bottled version in its home country
-- and certainly many of us have experienced this phenomenon -- the
difference is most likely a matter of superior freshness closer to home.
Cheers!
Alan Follett
"If you're going to be a drunk, you might as well be an informed drunk!"
ste...@discus.anu.edu.au
In article <jwilkersE...@netcom.com>,
jwil...@netcom.com (John L. Wilkerson Jr.) wrote:
>
> US laws regulate alcohol content in beer. I have yet to see a beer in
> the U.S. that has a 14 percent alcohol content. Drinking the "real
> thing" overseas and then drinking the "U.S. version" are quite two
> different things.
This is a load of crap. As the illustrious Don S. asked you to do,
please cite the relevant laws.
The reason that I know you can't cite the law is as follows:
There are no US federal laws regulating alcohol content in beer.
One or two states have such laws or weird restrictions on the labeling
of high alcohol beer. The only beers that are imported to the US
in a different version are one or two high volume imports such
as Becks. This is for marketing and not for any legal reason.
And these beers typically aren't the most exciting thing
available in their country of origin anyway.
There aren't many 14%ABV beers out there. Which ones have you been
unable to find in the US?
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Don Scheidt
jwil...@netcom.com (John L. Wilkerson Jr.) wrote:
>Those two beers are in Germany. Myself and friends want some.
Son, you're beginning to sound like a broken record. I *know*
these beers are from Germany. I know where Giessen and Lich are
(north of Frankfurt am Main). I know that there are also several
other breweries in the vicinity. And I know that neither Giessner
beers nor Licher beer are generally available in the USA.
>US laws regulate alcohol content in beer. I have yet to see a beer in
>the U.S. that has a 14 percent alcohol content. Drinking the "real
>thing" overseas and then drinking the "U.S. version" are quite two
>different things.
You've probably been pasted to the wall by several other knowledgable
posters on this by now. Please name all the beers you know about -
USA or otherwise (German, especially) - that contain 14% alcohol.
(Is that 14% by volume or by weight? ) Meanwhile, I can tell
you that there are, indeed, a very small number of beers sold in the
USA with this level of alcohol, both imported and domestically made.
There are *no*, repeat, *no* laws at the US Federal level that
regulate the alcohol content of beer! Got that? All of that kind
of stuff is regulated at the *state* level. Just because *you* can't
get strong beer, doesn't mean it isn't sold somewhere else.
I have had plenty of opportunity to drink the "real thing" overseas,
and I've had plenty of imported-to-the-USA versions. Sometimes,
the beers don't travel well. In a very small number of cases, the
ingredient mix is altered for an export market. But the fact is,
I can buy quite a few imports from Germany, Belgium, and other lands,
and they are the same goddamned exact beers that are brewed for
their domestic markets - beers like Spaten's Franziskaner Hefeweizen,
Bitburger's Pils, Heller's Schlenkerla Rauchbier, Ayinger's Jahr-
hundertbier, and on and on.
Now, you've received more than one accurate answer to your question.
Do you want to post in ignorance yet again, or can you just accept
that maybe, just maybe, the beer you want is going to cost you a
round-trip ticket to Frankfurt, and then some?
ObSheesh: Sheesh.
John L. Wilkerson Jr.
Joel_Plutchak wrote:
>
> In article <jwilkersE...@netcom.com> jwil...@netcom.com (John L. Wilkerson Jr.) writes:
> >US laws regulate alcohol content in beer. I have yet to see a beer in
> >the U.S. that has a 14 percent alcohol content. Drinking the "real
> >thing" overseas and then drinking the "U.S. version" are quite two
> >different things.
>
> Some states do concern themselves with restrictions and conditions
> on the sale of alcoholic beverages. It doesn't have much to do
> with what is and isn't available in the US. I regularly see higher-
> alcohol beer here, e.g., Samuel Adams Triple Bock, a variety
> of Belgian tripels and strong ales, barleywines, etc.
> I am curious about one thing. What are all these "14%
> alcohol content" beers you mention, and is that percentage
> by weight or by volume?
The 14 % thing was more or less just a random number. I am concerned as
to WHY The "real thing" overseas tastes different then the "US Version"
we see here.
I am acting as the voice of a few co-workers in search of the perfect
beer. We have not found any domestics that are acceptable, nor any
imports.
John L. Wilkerson Jr.
Jon Binkley wrote:
>
> If all you're concerned with is alcohol, why not just stick to the
> hard stuff? 40% abv Vodka will do ya a lot faster, cheaper, and
> more painlessly than 17.5% Samuel Adams Triple Bock, or 14% EKU 28,
> and you can buy it even in those uncivilized states that have stupid
> beer laws.
The alcohol content was put there as a random number... I could have as
easily said 90 million per cent, or one percent.
I live in Ohio..... Perhaps this is one of the uncivilized states (I do
not say that to mock you... if a state regulates beer, they ARE
uncivilized)
I must see. If Ohio is infringing on my right to enjoy a REAL beer,
then I need to write some congress-critters.
John L. Wilkerson Jr.
ste...@discus.anu.edu.au wrote:
>
> The reason that I know you can't cite the law is as follows:
> There are no US federal laws regulating alcohol content in beer.
Or maybe you say there are no laws because you are a secret Government
Agent planted in this group to convince us our beer rights are not being
infringed upon. :) <joke>
Seriously though, Perhaps Ohio where I live is one of these states. A
friend who did several years in Germany has not in any way found an
acceptable beer of supposed foreigh origin anywhere. He cited the two
brands I listed in the origional post on this thread as two of his
favorites. I have also had some superb German brews (Mailed to me by my
brother while he was overseas) that have no U.S. Equal. These beers
were Hoffbraus, which I understand are local beers to the town brewery..
not for export.
John L. Wilkerson Jr.
Don Scheidt wrote:
>
> jwil...@netcom.com (John L. Wilkerson Jr.) wrote:
>
> >Those two beers are in Germany. Myself and friends want some.
>
> Son, you're beginning to sound like a broken record. I *know*
> these beers are from Germany. I know where Giessen and Lich are
> (north of Frankfurt am Main). I know that there are also several
> other breweries in the vicinity. And I know that neither Giessner
> beers nor Licher beer are generally available in the USA.
Thank you. Question answered.
> You've probably been pasted to the wall by several other knowledgable
> posters on this by now. Please name all the beers you know about -
> USA or otherwise (German, especially) - that contain 14% alcohol.
> (Is that 14% by volume or by weight? ) Meanwhile, I can tell
> you that there are, indeed, a very small number of beers sold in the
> USA with this level of alcohol, both imported and domestically made.
> There are *no*, repeat, *no* laws at the US Federal level that
> regulate the alcohol content of beer! Got that? All of that kind
> of stuff is regulated at the *state* level. Just because *you* can't
> get strong beer, doesn't mean it isn't sold somewhere else.
>
14% is a number selected at random. I could have as easily said 90% or
1%. Ohio is where I live, I suppose I must research to see if this
state is hindering my group"s search for the perfect beer.
> Now, you've received more than one accurate answer to your question.
> Do you want to post in ignorance yet again, or can you just accept
> that maybe, just maybe, the beer you want is going to cost you a
> round-trip ticket to Frankfurt, and then some?
>
Actually, overseas mail-order would be more acceptable. If an overseas
beer glutton would like to send some that would be nice. More likely I
will find the beer store with the largest selection, and we will have to
drink some of everything in their inventory and hopefully find the best
beer.
I do apologize for ignorance, but beer is well.... beer.
Alan Follett
If Ohio is infringing on your right to enjoy a real beer (I'm not
familiar with your state's liquor laws), the critters to write to are
probably more the ones in Columbus than the ones in Congress. I'm not
sure how much good this would do, but it seems like a better shot than
trying to get the Federal government to preempt the right of the states
to regulate alcoholic beverages. Besides which, if the Feds did start
becoming more involved, who's to say that the upshot might not be to
impose _more_ restrictive limits and fussier labelling laws than most
states now have?
Incidentally, have you tried the excellent Great Lakes beers from
Cleveland?
Cheers!
Alan Follett
Joel_Plutchak
In article <34FD62...@netcom.com> "John L. Wilkerson Jr." <jwil...@netcom.com> writes:
>I live in Ohio..... Perhaps this is one of the uncivilized states (I do
>not say that to mock you... if a state regulates beer, they ARE
>uncivilized)
If you live in Ohio and haven't found "acceptable" beer, you
either haven't been looking, or simply don't know good beer.
Anything from Great Lakes Brewing Company in Cleveland is at
the very least good; some of their beers are great. For instance,
their Eliot Ness is a really tasty Vienna-style lager, if a bit
heavy for the style. The Edmund Fitzgerald Porter is to die for.
You can start there.
Andrew Ager
In article <6djnpc$req$1...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>, jo...@uiatma.atmos.uiuc.edu
(Joel_Plutchak) wrote:
> In article <34FD62...@netcom.com> "John L. Wilkerson Jr."
<jwil...@netcom.com> writes:
> >I live in Ohio..... Perhaps this is one of the uncivilized states (I do
> >not say that to mock you... if a state regulates beer, they ARE
> >uncivilized)
>
> If you live in Ohio and haven't found "acceptable" beer, you
> either haven't been looking, or simply don't know good beer.
> Anything from Great Lakes Brewing Company in Cleveland is at
> the very least good; some of their beers are great. For instance,
> their Eliot Ness is a really tasty Vienna-style lager, if a bit
> heavy for the style. The Edmund Fitzgerald Porter is to die for.
> You can start there.
They also have a Dortmunder-style that's not too exciting, but good.
Their Burning River Pale Ale is awe-inspiring. Sadly, I finished my last
bottle of it last night. Have to get back to Ohio soon...
Cheers,
--
Andrew Ager I am a: Homebrewer
Chicago, IL Ex-historian
andrew-ager at nwu dot edu Crazed beer geek
Hair of the Cat Brewery
"Mmmmm, beer." -- HS
Don Scheidt
"John L. Wilkerson Jr." <jwil...@netcom.com> wrote:
>Don Scheidt wrote:
>>
>> [...] And I know that neither Giessner
>> beers nor Licher beer are generally available in the USA.
>Thank you. Question answered.
You're welcome.
>> You've probably been pasted to the wall by several other knowledgable
>> posters on this by now. Please name all the beers you know about -
>> USA or otherwise (German, especially) - that contain 14% alcohol.
>> (Is that 14% by volume or by weight? )[...]
>>
>14% is a number selected at random. I could have as easily said 90% or
>1%. Ohio is where I live, I suppose I must research to see if this
>state is hindering my group"s search for the perfect beer.
If you'd said 90%, you'd have received even more "what are you
talking about?" types of responses. It's pretty tough to get much
past 15% or so alc/vol content in beer; it tends to stun the yeasts.
Only a very small number of beers worldwide go much past that level,
and they are produced in rather smallish quantities. In the USA,
Samuel Adams produces a curiousity called "Triple Bock", and the brewer
jumps through a lot of beermaking "hoops" to get the 17% alc/vol
result. Most beers, though, range from 3 to 7% alc/vol, with a
huge number of them nestling within a short distance of the 5% range.
>Actually, overseas mail-order would be more acceptable. If an overseas
>beer glutton would like to send some that would be nice. More likely I
>will find the beer store with the largest selection, and we will have to
>drink some of everything in their inventory and hopefully find the best
>beer.
Overseas mail order to the USA is something that is regulated by the
federal government; the feds don't control the alcohol content of beer,
but they do control import of alcohol-containing beverages. Some
states also have more regulations of this sort. The result is that
overseas mail order of beer just isn't done.
Now, if you and your friends can scare up the likes of Warsteiner
or Bitburger, both decent German pilsners, at a good drink shop
or supermarket, you'll be close to finding the kind of beers
made by the Giessner and Licher breweries. There really are
quite a few German imports of good quality to be had in the
USA. If we can find them on the West Coast, chances are they're
available in eastern parts of the country, including Ohio.
You might also find a Czech import or two in decent shape, like
Starobrno from Moravia's biggest city, a very good hoppy pale lager,
or Velkopopovicky Kozel.
There are some good USA beers too... maybe a roadtrip over to
Pennsylvania is in order, to see if you can scare up some Victory
Pilsner, Brandywine Valley Lager, or Fest Bier, all of them very
good.
>I do apologize for ignorance, but beer is well.... beer.
If that were true, you and your friends wouldn't be quite so interested
in looking for good beers like the ones served in Germany, now, would
you? ;-)
The worst ignorance is the kind where one thinks that what one
"knows" is fact, without being dissuaded by the truth. I hope some of
us here have put you on the road to better understanding of the subject
(beer) at hand. May your search for a good beer or two be a
successful one.
Buddha
there are no laws concerning alc. content in US beers, Sam Adams Triple
Bock is a key example at about 17%, the states that Do have laws concerning
alcohol content are oklahoma, utah and colorado, and then i believe if the
alcohol content is above 3.2% they cannot be sold in the supermarkets, they
must be sold in liquor stores.
also, the reason that european beers may have a different alcohol content
than the ones imported into the US is the tax laws, the home country
sometimes taxes the beer for home consumption according to alcohol content
and taxes the export differently
Zack
ste...@discus.anu.edu.au wrote in article
<6dfahk$asd$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> In article <jwilkersE...@netcom.com>,
> jwil...@netcom.com (John L. Wilkerson Jr.) wrote:
> >
> > US laws regulate alcohol content in beer. I have yet to see a beer in
> > the U.S. that has a 14 percent alcohol content. Drinking the "real
> > thing" overseas and then drinking the "U.S. version" are quite two
> > different things.
>
ceph...@gmail.com
> Myself and some associates are in search of a source of Licher and
> regarding beer degrade from enjoyment of a good brew.
Dear John, having lived in Germany just south of Giessener brewery, I have never tasted any beer from any country that rivals Giesserner Pils! What a fabulous beer and the after taste of sweetness is like no other. If you find a source,......please let me know. I have looked for years for the infamous
Frankfurter Rindswurst(sold in Zepplinheim at the Bahnhof Snell Imbiss) and found recently that they will be producing here in the US.(Rindswurst.com). Not impossible to get these products...guess it just takes persistence. Good luck. Gary
gjmo...@gmail.com
> Myself and some associates are in search of a source of Licher and
> regarding beer degrade from enjoyment of a good brew.
>
> a regular basis, please contact me...
>
you can get licher from friartuckonline.com I was in germany 2 excellent beers these wanttobe beer nobody's would never be ex millitary.
